Building a Fire Protection Empire 🔥🧯from Scratch with John Larkin | Black Bridge Mindset Podcast - Black Bridge Mindset

Episode Transcript
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CJ (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Black Bridge Mindset Podcast
where culture, entrepreneurship,and business intersect to fuel
inspiration.
This podcast celebrates thepower of diverse voices shaping
the future of business.
So whether you're building abusiness, breaking barriers, or
just looking for some seriousinspiration, you're in the right
place.

(00:22):
The Black Bridge Mindset.
Podcast is hosted by your threefavorite best friends, Mike,
Ken, and CJ.
So now sit back, relax, andabsorb the gems being dropped on
you by today's special guest.

Mike (00:38):
All right.
Well, hello.
Hello, hello.
I guess what Epi, I don't evenknow what episode we're on
because we're ballin and makingso many episodes we can't even
keep track anymore.
I don't, what is this?
Like 7, 8, 9?
Who knows?
we're killing it.

CJ (00:53):
yeah.
Right.
Early 2000

Mike (00:59):
right.
right.
You're right.
We killing it.
I

CJ (01:02):
get with it.
We lit.

Mike (01:04):
We lit.
All right.
You right, you right.
But, so some good news, to startout the show, as I shared with
you guys, we are getting a lotof traction lately.
The last, week or two, the, thenumbers jumped quite a bit.
Our first, guest that we hadRanita, she had a thousand, over

(01:27):
a thousand, watches on YouTube.
So

Ken (01:29):
Fantastic.

Mike (01:30):
about that.
the second one, David, he's,he's over, 800 and our third one
was Symphony Love.
She's, she's tracking over 600.
and it's only been out for aweek.
So people know who we are.
They see our beautiful brownfaces.
And, yeah, I'm pretty excited.
So once again, my gratitude andthanks to you two for jumping on

(01:51):
this, train with me and, makingthis happen.

Ken (01:55):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for pushing us.

CJ (01:58):
curious to know what our numbers look like on the podcast
apps.

Mike (02:03):
Yeah, so the numbers.
So we have 50, they call'emdownloads.
So 50 people have listened onthe apps.
So between Apples, Spotify, buzzFeed, buzz Sprout, excuse me.

CJ (02:17):
I.

Mike (02:17):
And, there's a couple other random ones that I've
never heard of that people arelistening to on as well, but
that just tells me that peoplewant to see our faces and not
just hear our voices.

CJ (02:28):
It works for me.

Mike (02:29):
So it's going good.

CJ (02:30):
just means I

Mike (02:31):
So I'll shut up now.

CJ (02:32):
my teeth more often.

Mike (02:33):
Please, please do.
Please do.
But yeah, so I'll shut up fornow.
How are you two doing?
What's going on?

CJ (02:39):
Pretty good here.
Little worn out tonight, butdoesn't matter.
I'm here to rock and roll.
I know.
I

Mike (02:47):
Well,

CJ (02:47):
go outside without a, a full on winter coat in the middle of
April.

Ken (02:51):
It was 85 degrees here yesterday,

CJ (02:53):
Mm-hmm.

Mike (02:54):
say.
You sound so sorry.

CJ (02:55):
right.

Ken (02:56):
I mean,

Mike (02:57):
I

Ken (02:57):
what?

Mike (02:58):
Satan.

Ken (02:59):
What?

CJ (02:59):
Yeah, I couldn't find any, like I said, I couldn't find any
of my fire protection, gear.
So was the next best thing,

Mike (03:06):
For those who are listening on the podcast, he, he
has a hat on that says, nottoday, Satan.

Ken (03:11):
Because

CJ (03:12):
I mean,

Ken (03:12):
it's hot.

CJ (03:13):
correct.
So, you know, keep, keep all ofthat away.

Mike (03:17):
And you.
Oh wait, you can't see it.
I told Ken before the show, andit looks like I'm gonna be
stripping, but I'm notstripping.
But I wore for fire protection,I wore, I have a tank top that's
full of fire just, just for theshow today.
Just little things.
I I already hear it.
Keep it to yourself.

CJ (03:37):
and I

Mike (03:38):
Keep it

CJ (03:38):
top.
Is that wishful thinking.

Mike (03:41):
it,'cause it's the only thing I had with flames on it,
so I wore it.
And then I just throw Ohio StateJersey on top of it because I
believe he's in Columbus aswell.
So I'm trying

CJ (03:52):
Okay.

Mike (03:53):
I'm trying, let me do my thing.

CJ (03:55):
Listen, I'm, I'm reaching for the stars too, with this
hat, so I'm not complaining atall.

Mike (04:01):
But your hat has so many meanings that we

Ken (04:04):
Right,

Mike (04:05):
two hour show.

Ken (04:06):
correct.

CJ (04:09):
I'm okay with it.

Mike (04:12):
Nice.
Well, I guess we could stopbabbling and we could get on to,
to our guest today.
and I think CJ's gonna introduceMr.
John Larkin.
I don't, I don't know why Igotta say his.

CJ (04:24):
He is worthy.
So we are talking to a CEO andpartner who didn't just build a
business, he built a fireprotection empire from the
ground up.
One fire device at a time.
ESC is a certified minorityowned small business
headquartered in Columbus, Ohio.
specializes in the design,installation and services of

(04:47):
fire alarm, fire suppression,and security systems for
commercial businesses throughoutOhio and Kentucky.
The company also providesturnkey installations and
engineering support services assenior partner of Electronic
Systems Consultants or ESC.
John Larkin oversees theday-to-day management of both
sales and client relations witha unique focus on local, state,

(05:10):
government and federal projectsnationwide.
John possesses nearly threedecades of industry knowledge as
well as stellar reputation inthe areas of fire and security
throughout Ohio and surroundingstates.
And without further ado, ladiesand gentlemen.

Mike (05:26):
John Larkin.

John Larkin (05:29):
Wow.
an intro, guys.
I love it.

Mike (05:33):
I am corny.
I'm okay with it.

CJ (05:36):
I said we.

Mike (05:37):
Oh, you said okay.

introduction.

CJ (05:39):
Hey,

Mike (05:40):
Yeah,

Ken (05:40):
Welcome to the.

I'm good, man.
Wrapping up a long day.
Good to hang out with you fellasfor, for an hour or so and talk
business.

CJ (05:49):
some energy left in you.

I do, I do.
It's not nine o'clock yet.
It's not my bedtime, so I'mstill, I'm still going.
Got a few hours left.

CJ (05:59):
So, I've given a, a, a brief introduction about, your
company, electronic SecurityConsultants or ESC.
you give our audience, a littlebit of history of, you know, how
you got into the industry and,you know, what, what part of
your, entrepreneurial brain hadyou decide to, to open up your
company?

Wow.
We have to go back to the stoneage, Chris.
It's been that long.
to start with, you know, mycareer really got started in the
Air Force.
I was, in the Air Force for twotours.
I.
over eight years, almost nineyears.
And lucky for me, my choiceoccupation in the, in the

(06:39):
military was firefighter.
I've had this, in my blood sinceI was 18 years old.
I'm not gonna tell you how old Iam right now, but it's, it's
been a few decades.
I've been in fiber protection mywhole adult life.
So that's where the start camefrom was, was, in the military.
While in the military I got, wasable to get some free education.
So I, studied under, cityCollege of Chicago.

(07:01):
Actually I was still overseas,but I studied under City College
of Chicago for fire engineeringand technology.

CJ (07:06):
Hmm.

able to get that transferred at, to the, civilian
life.
I think my first company was acompany called sco Fiber
Protection, way back in theearly.
nineties.
how longest been.
I'm trying to think.
It was 91 actually now, I'd behonest.
And I started out just as adesigner, Chris, I didn't even,
I think I ever told you thatstory,

CJ (07:29):
I

Back when CO2 systems, man, that's before even
AutoCAD was out.
You know, we were doing therulers and paper and everything
like that.
So that's kind of where I got mystart with a small fire
protection company.
I actually started in Dayton,Dayton, Ohio.
'cause I got outright path andwas kind of stuck in the office
watching, you know, drawing upCO2 systems and doing the

(07:50):
engineering work.
And I was noticing all theseguys were walking around and
they were in and outta theoffice.
You know, they're like, who arethese guys?
And I go like, those are thesales guys.
Why aren't they never here?
Well, because their job is to beout in the field hanging out and
meeting customers and bringingin business.
I'm like, yeah, I want to dothat.
I kind of finally startedtransferring my skillset to, to

(08:12):
sales and sales management.
And you know, kind of fastforward a few years, I worked
for some of the biggercompanies, in the world.
Siemens at the time were serviceBiotronics.
We were part of Siemens.
Eventually, went to a smallercompany, and then I ended up at
Simplex, where I've actually metChris, for, I don't know, I was
there for eight years, nineyears.
I'm not sure how long you werethere, but it was, it was a good

(08:35):
run.
So I was able five or six.
Yeah.
So, you know, you gather allthose skills throughout the
years from, from, from.
Engineering to sales, to salesmanagement, to branch manager,
to regional managers.
I had all that experience undermy belt.
And the, the, the thing that Ihad burning inside me that whole

(08:55):
time guys, was I treated mycompany or the company that I
worked for, like my supervisorswere my board of directors.
So I always treated the companylike I owned it and I support
and I reported to the board ofdirectors.
So I always had thatentrepreneurial mindset.
Whatever I did, that's how Ifocused on, on business.

(09:16):
And it got to the point where Iwas ready to just make that
jump.
And I think I made the jump in2011, yeah, started my company
in 2011 and, haven't looked backsince.
So there's been some roughroads.
The rollercoaster has not beensmooth.
It's been up and down since2011.
But, i'm still here in 2025,with a company under my belt,

(09:39):
about 14 employees for on theESC side.
And we, like Chris hasmentioned, we just branched out
into a, engineering supportdivision or a separate company,
not a division.
It's a separate companyaltogether that actually
supports ESC, but it's still inthe same industry.
So, to kind of answer yourquestion, you know, I, I, I've
always had that burning desireto, to run something, to be my

(10:01):
own boss, to take something fromscratch.
When I started, I started rightoutta my house with nothing, no
money, just opportunity and,grew it from there.
So, you know, there's a passionthere.
You gotta have that passion toget up every day to get kicked
in the teeth and, and go to bedand wake up the next day and do
it all over again.
So, I've always told people,I've been very fortunate that

(10:23):
I've been in the career field,that that's something that I
love.
I, I think it would've beenharder for me to try to build a
company off of something I waswanting to try.
I mean, I've been, like I said,I've been in this career my
whole life, so it was never ajob for me with my passion.
So I was able to transfer thatpassion into building a couple
of companies.
I.

CJ (10:43):
I know you, you just touched on it a little bit, but, in the
beginning, you know, you're,you've got your experience, you
have your confidence in thefield, you know, you ready to
cut your teeth at, at owning apiece of the pie.
How did you look at things froma, a financial standpoint?
I know you said that you didn'treally have much money, but, you
know, how did you get it, getthe company off the ground?
Did you, you know, finance itout of your pocket?

(11:05):
Did you loan?
Did you have investors?
Like what, what route did youtake?

I finance it out of my pocket.
401k gone.
I, I finance this, it myself.
You know, and there's two waysto look at it.
I, I think, and we, this issomething we will talk about
probably at, you know, what arethe pitfalls of, of running a
company, but didn't truly have.
The financial where of thought,understand how to go to banks

(11:32):
and approach banks for, forcredit lines.
Personal credit wasn't thatgreat'cause I was a, a
knucklehead growing up.
So those are red flags that youdon't know till, you know,
right.
You can't walk into a bank andsay, Hey, here I am, and gimme
half a million dollars.
And they start pulling yourcredit rating, like, yeah, come
back and see me two or threeyears from now, and it's just a
little better, you know?
So I was forced to, to financein my, my own.

(11:56):
I would love to have, been ableto walk into a bank and, and get
a, you know, a million dollarcredit line and, and, you know,
be able to just to people rightoff the bat and support that.
But it was, it was from theground up, man.
It was, it was a job at a time,you know, building up the
clientele, getting that moneycoming in, trying to talk,
vendors into giving us creditlines for, you know, 30 days or

(12:18):
45 days of front of theequipment.
So it, it was a struggle.
I, I, I will shout out to an oldAir Force buddy who, she's
actually the godfather of acouple of my kids that, when I
really needed something, I wasdown and I didn't have the
money.
I called on him and he, and hewrote me a check.
So, without that support,without the support of my wife,
who kept the lights on, when Ididn't, when I wasn't cutting,

(12:40):
cutting myself paychecks andtrying to pay the bills and grow
a company, she was there makingsure everything was, was going
strong.
So, those are the two peoplethat I had, you know, behind me
that kind of kept me movingforward.
But it, it was, it was astruggle.
I mean, to, I, hell, to behonest with you today, it's
still the struggle trying tomake payroll.
I always tell people, you know,never when I hear somebody say,

(13:00):
oh, how much you make a year?
What's your revenue?
And I'm like, oh, you know, wedo.
I do 10 million or I do 2million.
The first thing I say is, howmuch does it cost to make that.
Because I could

Mike (13:10):
Mm-hmm.

money you really, actually, I don't care what
your, what your p and l says.
If you're making 2 million, didit cost you 1.5 to make that 2
million or did it cost you 2.5to make that 2 million?
It's all about the net profit,right?
So, those struggles will alwaysbe there with where, wherever
you're at in any stage of yourcompany is trying to make sure
that the revenue's coming in,there's some profit in part of

(13:32):
that revenue and you're, you'rebanking money.
And, that's why I wish somebodytold me that years ago, but you
know, you learn sometimes youhave to learn the hard way.

Mike (13:40):
Right.
That's awesome.
There's two things that youmentioned at the beginning, of
your journey.
One is that you started abusiness that you had passion
for.
And then the other thing thatyou mentioned is that, there was
an opportunity for you to startthis business.
So speaking to someone who's onthe other side of this screen,

(14:02):
listening or watching.
when you say start a businessthat you have a passion for, how
did you know you had a passionfor this specific niche?
then also how did you know therewas an opportunity for you to
build a business and continue inthis niche of fire protection?

Two, two great questions.
Again, to go back to, you know,my background, you know, I've
been in fire protection my wholelife.
So, that was, that was thecatalyst that got things
started.
I, like I said, I, I don't thinkI could, you know, start a
company that would, I.
Selling other parts or adesigner or, you know, whatever
it is, you know, even inconstruction.

(14:43):
'cause I didn't have thatskillset.
I mean, I had that burningdesire to run something and be
my own boss and build somethingfrom nothing.
But I started out with what Iwas good at, to be honest with
you, was my passion, to be infiber protection.
Like I said, I was afirefighter, I was a fire
inspector, I was an assistantfire chief.
Got into design engineering andlo and behold, you know, you get

(15:04):
out into the civilian world and,and it opens up a little bit
more.
Now you can see sales guys and,and companies.
I mean, when I was in the AirForce, funny thing is I never
really knew what a fireprotection company was because I
was a firefighter.
That's all I cared about, youknow, and you get out into the
real world, so to speak, andlike, wow, you can actually do
this for a living and you don'thave to be a firefighter.
You can be a, you know, a fireengineer or you can be in sales

(15:26):
and you can be in construction.
So all those opportunitiesstarted opening up for me.
To say, man, well I can, I canactually take this and make
something out of it.
So that was a start.
This is the passion that I hadnin myself to, to do that.
The opportunity side of it, youknow, I, I've been in the
industry long enough that I hada lot of contacts in, in, in

Mike (15:48):
Mm-hmm.

Because I was a sales rep and a sales manager
and a branch manager.
So I built a reputation just inColumbus that there was a lot of
people who knew who I was.
A lot of general contractors, alot of electrical contractors,
lot of business owners that werein the industry, and they, they
gave me the motivation, said,Hey man, if you go out and on
your own, we're, we're gonnawork with you.
We're gonna give you work.

(16:10):
So I had that opportunity to,you know, not just jump out
there and, and swim withoutfinding, finding something to
do.
I, I, I jumped out there withopportunity that was, that was
there waiting for me.
I just had to execute it and,and, and get the jobs done and
keep growing from, from there.
You know, the other part ofthat, you know, the opportunity
that, that, that when, when thecompany started growing was

(16:32):
getting, obtaining the, thecertifications for, for the
company, the minoritycertifications, MBE Edge, you
know, we, there's a lot of, in alot of initials behind our
company name.
So that, that was a, a, a gamechanger for us too.
You know, a few years back when,you know, I think the biggest.
The biggest break came from mewhen we already had our

(16:54):
certification.
We really, it really was just atthe time, I didn't think it was
worth the paper was written on'cause nobody was really paying
attention to it.
it was there but it wasn't beingpushed and enforced, or, or
acted on at all.
And I'll be honest with you, Ithink it, it was Governor Kasek
at the time.
That and the Republican governorat that, that made it kind of

(17:14):
mandatory for MBE and Edge op,contracting companies or MBE and
Edge certified companies to geta piece of the pie not just, you
know, a knock on the door andlet you bid.
Where he was forcing that down,that they were making sure that
MBE and edge companies weregetting opportunities.
Now, once you got thatopportunity, you had to, you had
to do your job and we had to doit better than anybody else,

(17:36):
right?
We had first we're MBA second,we're being forced on these
people who had already had therelationship with somebody else,
and they're waiting for you totrip.
They're waiting for you to belate, not have the equipment on
time, bad attitudes.
We had to act.
Our MBE contractors had to be 10times better than an average non
MBE contractor just to be equal.

(17:56):
Just to be equal, right?
So that again, was some of theopportunities that we used to
our advantage.
And once we got into these jobsand these customers and they
could see how well we did ourjob, we built those
relationships and it went onfrom there.
So even if the MBE program wentaway, which is kind of teetering
now these days anyway, but westill have that reputation of

(18:18):
being a company that canactually do the job.
those are the kind of the breakswe had along the way.

CJ (18:24):
So when you, you first got started, what was your original
for the company and then.
Has that vision changed sincethen?
Or, are you still working onthat original vision and,
there's other, know, realitiesthat, that have come to fruition

(18:44):
since you started?

Oh man.
Another great question.
much time do I got?
I can preach out just for awhile.
The right answer is no.
What I, the vision that I hadfor the company in 2011 to where
we are in 2025 is nowhere nearwhat I thought I was gonna be.
It's, it's 10 times more.
The reason we've kinda shortenedthe, the company name, the

(19:07):
company true company name isElectronic Systems Consultants.
'cause of my background, I'm afire, I'm a low voltage guy.
Fire alarm and alarm systems andcamera systems.
So when I started the company,that was my focus was, was fire
alarm or low voltage electronicsystems.
Fast forward it, now we, we domore.

(19:27):
Work on the sprinkler side ofthe house than we do on the fire
alarm side of the house.
that's why we're kind ofshortening the name.
I'm actually gonna go through aname change because I'll go to a
job site and it goes, well,who's the sprinkler contractor?
And I go, electronic systemgoes, you guys do sprinkler,
you're electronic company.
And I got tired of hearing it,so I'm like, I'm just sick of
that.
We're gonna change it to ESC.

(19:49):
But no, when I started thecompany, it was really, and I
don't wanna get too technicaland throw out jargon names and
stuff, but a lot of stuff thatwe did, what we call industry is
when we're bidding to the bidmarket, we call it parts and
smarts.
We're selling parts to anelectrical contractor and then
what they do their job and theyinstall it, then we would go out
and do the programming.
We walk out the door, right?

(20:09):
That was basically how thecompany got started.
And as we kind of over time, westarted getting to not just the
bid market and those smallprojects, now we're starting to
bid a.
Service contracts to customers.
So once the system's in place,we'll do a service contract to
maintain that customer.
Because by code, we'refortunate, in our industry that
what we do for a living is, isdriven by code.

(20:31):
You have to have a most, ninetimes outta 10, you've gotta
have some type of protection inyour building.
10 outta 10.
That system has to be maintainedand serviced by an outside
vendor.
So that kind of, we went fromparts and smarts and we started
moving into the service side ofthe house.
Really, at that time, we werestill doing fire alarm, right?
Little bit of camera work, alittle bit of low voltage.
And then once we got into thesecustomers and we were doing

(20:54):
their fire alarm inspections,they said, Hey, what else can
you do?
Oh, we can do it all.
Not knowing that, you know, Ireally couldn't.
But you know, you're gonna,you're gonna say that, and you
walk out the door, oh shit, nowI gotta get a sprinkler guy
because we now promising to dothis and gotta get a backflow
guide.
We don't, we don't have to dothat either.
And we just, you know, you, youfake it till you make it.
And I, I just use subcontractorsand, and you know, told him

(21:16):
that, Hey, put on my shirt, goin there and do that inspection
and gimme my shirt back when,like you, with our company and,
and we, hey, me now employee it,do it.
telling.
But, you know, then we, we, we,we slowly started bringing those

(21:38):
people on board.
And because we had that worknow, now we're doing not only
fire alarm, now we're doingsuppression systems and
extinguishers, and we're doingeverything that comes underneath
of, of, the umbrella forcesystems integrator, which is a
company that can do ev to do itall.
Now we're moving in from.
Just not doing the inspections,but with the, with sprinkler
systems, now we're doing repairwork, so now we're repairing'em.

(22:00):
And now so we can, we got guysgood enough to do the
inspections.
We got guys got good enough todo the repair.
Do we have guys good enough thatcan actually install it?
Let's try that.
Right?
So now we're, now we'reinstalling sprinkler systems
along with our fire alarmsystems and along with our alarm
systems and our camera systems.
And it just started to grow.
So, you know, you, I look backon that now and then, and, you

(22:23):
know, electronic systems was afire protection company.
Now ESC is a full systemsintegrator.
So we, we can, we do it all andwe do it all in house.
We don't have to sub out any ofour, our install work.
We can, our guys can bendconduit and, and they can put in
fire pumps and everything else.
So we grew that over time.
So, man, you had the vision.

(22:43):
I was shortsighted.
I, I didn't have that vision,you know,'cause I was so focused
on what I was good at or what Ithought I was good at was fire
alarm and fire protection, firealarm and fire protection that I
wanted to build a fireprotection, a fire alarm
company.
The guise of fire protection,but it started to branch out
and, and, and grow.
And you know, we've, you know,now, like I said, 70% of our

(23:05):
revenue is, is on the water sideand not on the electronics side.
Funny.

CJ (23:10):
What's that, that term you like to use?
Lovett.

Mike (23:13):
Imperfect action

Ken (23:14):
Perfect.

Mike (23:15):
making imperfect action.

CJ (23:17):
like.

Mike (23:17):
I think it, I think that's how it started was with
imperfect action.
But it sounds like throughoutcourse you made a lot of pivots
as well.
You're like, oh, we, this iswhat we're gonna do, but oh
wait, let's pivot over to thisand, and try this as well and,
and add on to, what we're ableto offer.
So,

yeah,

Mike (23:38):
I think that's great and, and people need to hear that.
a lot of times you do go inwith, with blinders on and this
is what I want to do.
But then, you know, you get downthe road and there's so many
more opportunities that comeknocking.
You have to be ready to, youhave to be ready.

Ken (23:56):
Y you had mentioned earlier about, some challenges, right?
So can you talk to us about someof the challenges that you've
had over the time that you'vebeen running your business, and
then also kind of tell.
Our, viewers and listeners, likewhat your mindset was to get
over those challenges and tokind of move on to, the next
step.

Oh, absolutely.
I mean, that, that's one of thereasons I wanted to be on this
podcast is to share those, thoseexperiences because, you know,
if I, I could look back and say,man, I wish somebody would help
with it.
And part of some of this wisdomon me that I want to impart on
others that are starting,starting businesses, you know,
I, I would say that the firstthing.

(24:36):
I look at now, when I talk toyoung people that are wanting to
start companies, I ask them, thefirst thing I want to do is,
what's your vision?
Because there's two, look,there's two ways to look at an
entrepreneur.
There's an entrepreneur that canbe a standalone entrepreneur and
they want to grow their companyand it's this themselves.
there's nothing wrong with that,right?

(24:56):
And they can go out and justbuild that company and it's
almost like a job, but, but it'stheir company.
you've got

Mike (25:03):
Okay.

that wants to build a company that wants to scale it
and wants to have employees andwants to branch out in different
offices.
And, you know, you go fromColumbus to working in
Louisville and working inMichigan, and that's that
vision, right?
So there's two ways to approachbeing an entrepreneur.
So I always ask the person, whatdo you wanna do?
Do you wanna scale it or do youwant just to be, you know.

(25:25):
Just run the company yourself,and, and, and that's your job,
and that's your passion, andyou're great at that.
Once you ask that question, thenyou can get that focus.
Now, say the first thing afterthat.
The next question after that isto surround yourself with people
who know more than you.
That's the most important point.
If, if nothing else comes acrossin this, in this podcast from

(25:47):
me, that point I wanna getacross.
Surround yourself with peoplewho know more than you.
And in my example of that is.
talked about that as my passion.
Yeah.
I've got a passion for fireprotection.
I really know, I really lovewhat I do.
but fire protection when you gointo a business is a lot more
than just fire protection.
It's understanding how to read ap and l and how to read a

(26:08):
balance sheet and how to readand how to do cash flow
projections.
And if that's something that youare not used to or you have no
clue on how to do it, you shouldfind somebody as quickly as
possible to be a mentor or to bea guide to help you with the
things that you do not know howto do.
Because again, it's yourpassion.

(26:28):
I can get up every day.
I've been, you know, there's,there's days when I, I didn't
want to get up, but I love whatI do and I'll get up and face
the day, right.
Because it's my passion and whatmy job is.
But at the same time, you know,I, I would turn, turn a blind
eye or, or, or kind of hidebehind.
I.
You know, man, what's this?
Am I making, am I actuallymaking money?
Who can help me see if this pand l makes sense?

(26:49):
And I've had really good mentorsalong the way that I've asked to
come in and help me look at thebooks.
And guys that can take a, youknow, take a p and l goes,
there's something wrong righthere.
And I'm like, right wherethere's something wrong with
these numbers and let's startdigging into it where I could
never figure that out, you know?
So that's the mo most importantpiece, I think, is to surround
yourself with people whounderstand business.

(27:12):
While you understand the passionthat you have for your business
to grow that.
But you need to make sure youhave somebody that knows
financial strength.
If you're not in marketing, youknow, to understand, you know,
how to market your company, grabsomebody who knows how to do
marketing, how to do sales,whatever the case, you know, if
you're good at sales, which, youknow, I'm a sales guy, Chris
knows that I'm, I'm a sales guyby heart.

(27:33):
But, but my fight, and, and it'sfunny because I actually ran a
bit, I actually ran companiesbefore as a branch manager, and
I wasn't, I was responsible forthe p and l, but I was
responsible for the local p andl, I just had to make sure that
I reached whatever my goal wasfor that month.
If we had to do a half millionin revenue, I.

(27:54):
Great.
That's, that was my number.
I didn't have to worry aboutthe, the cost of it or the, the
employee cost.
The insurance, the cost ofmaterial.
All that stuff that, you know,you didn't really know.
And I didn't know till, I didn'tknow when I got on my own, how
all that was important.
You, like, I ran a companybefore, I know how to run, I
know how to read a p and l.

(28:14):
No, you don't.
You think you do, you mightunderstand the top line, you
might understand the bottomline.
There's a whole bunch of otherlines in there that makes, that
runs your company.
And if you're not focusing onthose lines, you're gonna fail,

Mike (28:27):
Right,

gonna lose money every month.
And you don't understand

Mike (28:29):
right.

You're not gonna be in business long.
So, you know, I guess the, themoral of it is, is, is to
surround yourself with peoplethat's gonna help you understand
how to run a company.
That, that's, that's probablythe key.

Mike (28:42):
Yeah.
That's your, that's your team.
Right?
That's, you know, we've talkedabout this in other podcast is,
a team of people to help supportyou and run the company.
You don't need to know andunderstand how to do everything
in order to make the companysuccessful.
So there have been people who'vecome on and said, yeah, I am.
the CEO, I'm the founder.
This is my vision, but I havethese people in place who help

(29:04):
me carry out this vision becausetheir passion is, like you said,
accounting or their passion ismarketing.
I know enough, but I'm not asgood as they are.
I wouldn't be where I am todayif it wasn't for my team.

Yep.
Yeah.
And.
When you're starting out, thosetype of people, you can't afford
to put on your payroll.
You don't have a payroll, right?
So you've got to lean on peoplethat are, that are wanting to
help you, understand how to runthe business.
You know, I can look at it now,you know, I've, I've had this
company since 2011.

(29:38):
I, and I can be honest with you,I didn't get my team in place so
I could start scaling backmyself to last year.
You know, I, I went, I went allthese years.
I didn't have an operationsmanager.
I didn't have a project manager.
I didn't have a, a true, reallygood office manager or, or
installation manager.
I have all positions now, right?
So I can, I can take all thosehats off my head, but went from

(30:01):
2011 to 2024.
I didn't have all thosepositions, right?
I had sales reps, or I hadtechnicians, and I had people in
the field that could do theirjob maybe an office manager.
But I was still the CFO, the CEOhr.
I was doing all that myself.
And you can't.
you start a company, you can't,unless you are just truly funded

(30:22):
and you've got money coming outof, you know what, you can't put
all those people in place rightoff the bat.
Right.
So you've gotta find mentors,you've gotta find people that,
that will be able to, you know,look at your p and l over coffee
or breakfast one morning.
Right.
You know,

Mike (30:38):
Right.

I, my first office I had, so I started, I started
this company outta my house andI got my first office right
around 2014, and I got veryfortunate that my landlord's
brother some anotherentrepreneur that his, made so
much money, he, he's retired, sohe really wasn't even working.
He was kinda helping his brotherand he introduced me to him and

(31:00):
this guy came in out of thegoodness of his heart helped me
rip my QuickBooks and helped meunderstand how to read red flags
in, in a balance sheet.
I'm like, what's a balancesheet?
You know, I don't even know whata balance sheet.
I know how my p and l.
And he goes, no, you gotta, yougotta understand the cash flow
report.
T and l and your balance sheet,it all works together to build a
company.
And he set up everything for me.

(31:22):
And, and I ran the books thatway.
I've had, had entrepreneurs andbusiness owners that I probably
only met with maybe once ortwice a year.
And, you know, I was able tosay, Hey, here's a problem I'm
having and all that stuff.
Oh, lemme make a call.
I'm gonna set you up with this,a book.
You need a bookkeeper, and I'llset you up with this bookkeeper
and, and they'll give you adiscount and they'll get started
so you can get your books ranright.
And you don't have to worryabout that.

(31:43):
So I guess the point is,starting out, you're not gonna
be able to afford those peoplefor all those positions that you
want.
If you look at your scale andgo, oh, from five years from now
I'm gonna look at my org chartand I'm up top and I've got a
COO and I've got a CFO and I'vegot installation, whatever,
however your org chart is setup, all those pieces underneath,
you are not gonna be there yearone, year two, year three.

(32:05):
It's just if you're, if you're,you're starting out.
So where, where is that helpgonna come from?
You've gotta, you gotta havementors and you've gotta.
You gotta reach out and, and,and, and find people that are
ready, willing to help you.
And, you know, I'm fortunate inthis community.
I've, I've got a lot of peoplethat held my hands, so to speak.
And now it is, it's my turn topay it forward.

(32:26):
So I, I've been able to talk toyoung entrepreneurs coming in.
I ran a few out.
'cause you don't like the way I,I reality sits when, like.
You can't get paid right off thebat, but, but here's how you run
a business.
That's all.
You know, I'll set up yourQuickBooks for you, but you
gotta understand how to, how tobid jobs and how to, you know,
float money because you'regonna, in this industry, you're

(32:48):
not gonna get paid for 30, 45,sometimes 60 days.
that gonna work?
Right?
So, but yeah, so I'm at thatstage now where I, I'm, look,
I'm looking forward to doingthat and, and paying it forward
and, and helping peopleunderstand, yeah, you're great
at what you do.
That's your passion.
That's fine.
I love it.
But that's not, your passion'snot gonna help you grow your
business.
You gotta that understand how torun a business.

(33:12):
and if you can't do it on yourown, help find people that can
help you.

Mike (33:15):
Perfect.

way of answering your question, man.
But yeah.

Mike (33:19):
You're good?

Ken (33:20):
was great.

Mike (33:21):
Yeah.
That's perfect.

CJ (33:23):
So curious, if I remember correctly, up until now, I think
you may be the, the only guestwe've had that runs a, a large
company, says, getting me tothinking you basically started
from the ground up, how did yougo about, I guess based on your

(33:44):
personality, how did you goabout determining type of,
culture that you wanted to havein your company?
You know, how you wanted totreat your employees, how you
want them to feel, you know,come into the office knowing
that they work for you, what,what type of impression you want
to give them?

Man, that's a great question.
I, and I just, I just kind ofpreached that the other day to
my team, because I've beenaround for so long and I've,
and, and I, I can truly,honestly sit here and look you
and I, Chris, and tell you I'vegot, I can count my heroes when
it come people, when I sayheroes, people that I know, not
people that I aspire to be thaton TV or I read about people

(34:21):
that have touched me, has been apart of my life that guided my,
the way I shape, the way I run acompany.
I can count those heroes on onehand.
been my fire chief when I was inthe military.
It's been, a owner of a companythat I work for in Detroit, that
started his own company fromscratch.
And he was just, he was a greatman and, he taught me a lot.

(34:46):
And I've had a couple salesmanagers that when I worked for
Siemens that were, at the time,I thought it was tough.
I thought they hated my gut, butit was tough love.
And I, I can look back now andgoes, man, these guys were
kicking my butt.
But, they were doing it for areason, right?
So I've had people that haveguided me along the way without
telling me they're guiding mealong the way, right?

(35:08):
So I can look back now and lookat the people that I, that
shaped my life a positive waywith those four or five, people
that have touched my, touched mylife as my career had grown.
And I can also look back in thattimeframe and look at people
that I worked with.
'cause if I ever run a company,I don't wanna be like him.
I don't wanna be like herbecause it, attitude and, and

(35:31):
the, or it was all off and itwas just poison in the office.
So I've taken that balance Itgoes, if I have my own company,
I wanna run it this way based onthe people that I have
experienced throughout mycareer, both good or bad.
And I, and I, to this day, Istill hang on to that.
There's people I can won'tmention by name.
'cause you might know some of'emthat have, like, if I run a

(35:55):
company, it's not gonna be thatway.
Or if I run a company, I wannarun it away.
This, this guy, this guy did it.
And, and, and be compassionateabout not just the business, but
run it.
And, and it's, and it is socliche, and I hate to say it,
but it is cliche, but truly dorun this like it's a family.
because most of my employees area lot younger than me now, oh

(36:15):
my, my kids' age, which justkind of freak freaks me out
every, every so often.
But there's a reason that Idon't want my company to go
pass.
While I'm still in charge, passmore than 20 people because I
wanna keep that same close knitfamily group together.
I run an open door policy.
My door's open all the time.
So if somebody has an issue,whether it's it's work related

(36:38):
or not work related, come on in,let's talk about it.
I think that has reallytranspired is I've been able to
get rid of people and firepeople and we're still friends
to this day.
And it was like, you know, like,well, you're one of the greatest
boss I've ever had.
Yeah.
It didn't work out with us proprofessionally.
Hey, but you're still a friend,and if I can help you out, I'll

(36:58):
help you out.
And I still have thoseconnections.
I've demoted people and becausethey couldn't cut it and they,
but they're still a part of theteam and it, it lasted.
But, you know, on the otherside, there's some people around
here think I'm the biggesta-hole in Columbus.
happens, can't please everybody.
But you know, I, I, I run that,I, I run the company that way.
I, I, I have meetings with myteam consistently, on a weekly

(37:22):
basis.
And I, I call it the twenties.
Doesn't necessarily mean it's a20 minute meeting, but it's
just, I just call it the 20.
But it's a one-on-one meetingwhere come in and talk on a
one-on-one basis, and we talkabout whatever you want to talk
about.
It doesn't have to be workrelated.
It can be work related.
We can get to work.
But if you've got an issue, helpyou get through this because
you're part of the team.

(37:42):
If you're carrying baggageemotionally or whatever it is,
you know, I tell my guys all thetime, we're not robots.
Everybody's not gonna get up onthe right side of the bed every
day and come to work and, and becheerful.
We're not built like that.
We're human beings, right?
And we carry emotions andeverything else that, you know,
we got lives outside of workand, and think to be heavy and,
and weighing on your heart, andin your mind.

(38:04):
And, if it's something I can doto help you along the way, I
will.
And I do, I do thatconsistently.
So that's the way I, I, Iapproach the business, but I do
to this day.
I mean, I can go back to theeighties and still remember
people that given me a lot ofguidance that at the time I'm
like, ah, he don't know whathe's talking about.
And now it just rings true.

(38:25):
It just rings true, you know?
So that's the way I approach it.

Mike (38:29):
I have a question.
So you mentioned that in yourcompany, you've demoted people
or you've had to let some peoplego.
Do you think people still hadrespect for you after the
demotion or being let go isbecause you set clear

(38:49):
expectations for the positionand you set clear KPIs for that
position?

absolutely.
Yeah.
I, I, the one story I tell is Ihad a guy, and I was at Siemens
at the time, and I was thebranch manager and one of my
best guys in the field.
I wanted to promote him to aproject manager, which means
you're coming from outside toolsin your hands out in the
elements.
You're gonna come inside andyou're gonna have a desk job and

(39:16):
you're gonna kind of run thecompany with me from, from the
desk.
And I brought in my best guylike two months later he comes
to me, he goes, I.
ain't working.
I, I, I, I don't like this.
And I'm like, well, why not?
And he goes, I, I just, I gottahave tools in my hand.
I don't like paperwork.
I don't like sitting here, you

Mike (39:34):
Mm-hmm.

on it.
This is not my thing.
I said, okay, so we're, I'mgonna move you back to the
field.
And that guy just retired acouple years ago, and we, we
were still remain friends.
I had guys that, you know, we,we, we tried out positions that
it just wasn't for them.
And we just put'em in.
We kept them going base or keptthem in the company because they
still were a value to the team,but they weren't a value at the

(39:56):
position I thought they weregonna be in.
Right.
There's, there's that saying youcan, you can, promote yourself
above your pay grade, whichmeans you can keep getting these
promotions until you get to thepoint where you're promoted to a
level that you really shouldn'tbe in.
you can't recognize it,somebody's gonna recognize it.
And you now you gotta have thatconversation about, okay, we're
either gonna let you go you'regonna be, go back down to where

(40:19):
you're at.
So that, that's kind of way we,I've approached it, but yeah,
I've, I've rarely had op companyor, or employees within the
company that I just had toforcibly get out the door.
Unless they were just purepoison or they were poisoning
the whole company.
And I'd say, yeah, it's time foryou to leave.
This company's not for you.
It's not the culture that we,were trying to present.

(40:41):
So did that

Mike (40:43):
I just wanted to bring that up because I know some
people, you know, once they getready to start hiring, a team,
they may be afraid, you know,of, of letting someone go.
But it sounds like if you setthe expectations upfront that
the KPIs upfront, no reason tobe afraid because you could
clearly say, these were theexpectations.

(41:04):
They're not being met becauseyou're not doing A, B, and C.
So this is the reason we eitherhave to let you go or you have
to be demoted.
So there's no feelings I mean,it, it sucks and so does my
camera.
There's no feelings in there,but it's a, it's a, it's clearly

(41:25):
laid out as to, I'm doing thisbecause we're not hitting X, Y,
Z targets.

Yeah.

Mike (41:32):
feel like it makes it a little easier.

It's clearly, and again, that's, that's a great
point.
It's clearly laid out nowbecause the way I run the
company now is a lot smarterthan the way I ran the company,
you know, 10 years ago, 12 yearsago.
Some of those promotions arelike, oh, this guy's doing
great.
I'm just gonna come into theoffice and see, see if it works.
The, the, the company and theway I run the company now, just
like you said, everything I dois in writing.

(41:55):
Everything we do is an SOP toit.
I mean, I've got a book sittingright there that's got every SOP
for every position in thecompany.
And it's written.
We've got standards.
And when we promote somebody,we're gonna put you on a 30 day
trial basis.
Here's what we expect of you.
'cause it's in writing and we'll

Mike (42:12):
Mm-hmm.

and whatever you, you know, right off the bat,
whatever you're weak at on thischecklist, let me know.
We're gonna help you.
Whatever you think you're strongat, great.
Just because we're gonna rockand roll with it and let it go.
But that's another point.
Everything we do now is in it's,it's clearly written.
The expectations aren't justcoming outta my mouth on a
one-on-one, and there's noguidance there.

(42:35):
I, I do everything That's a,that's, it's got a standard
operating procedure on a clearchecklist.

Ken (42:41):
So, you had mentioned, just a little bit ago about, not
having more than 20 employees,while you were in charge.
So talk to us about how, youknow, from your perspective, how
that helps you to scale thecompany, right.
To not get too big right.
That you need more than 20people.

Mm-hmm.

Ken (43:03):
but you know, to kind of keep it on track for the vision
that you have.

So that's a great question.
So I, I know right now wherewe're at revenue wise and where
I want to be in the next four tofive years.
And there's, there's, there'scalculations and math that goes
with that.
As thorough, if you're a two, a$2 million company, you've gotta
have at least seven or 10 guysin the field make it generating
that revenue.

(43:28):
If you want to, you know, go to10 or take a 2 million to a or$2
million company to a$10 millioncompany, obviously there's a
math that goes along with thatthat says you need that many
more people.
Now, in looking at that, that'snot to say that I have to have
all those people on my payroll.
So if we wanna go from a$2million company to a$10 million
company, and I don't want to gopast 20 employees, then we need

(43:50):
to look str strategicpartnerships, subcontractors,
who can we sub out that's gonnahelp us get along that way that
we don't have to bring everybodyin as W2, because, you know, in
construction industry, it's upand down.
So I didn't want to, you know,scale up and have 30, 40, 50
employees and all of a suddenyou hit a downturn.
You got, you gotta lay peopleoff.
I, I've, i've knocked on woodthat I've never laid off

(44:13):
anybody.
We've never missed payroll.
but I've, and I'm able to keepthat scale, that if we want to
grow and we know we have togrow, and we need, we know we
need to have people to grow.
Well, those people don'tnecessarily have to be on, on
our payroll.
We can do that throughpartnerships and subcontractors.

Ken (44:32):
I think that's an important point, right?
To point out to people who arelistening, right?
Like what you said aboutstrategic partnerships, right?
And figuring out other ways tobuild a business other than
growing by, you know, addingemployees, right?
I think that's, that's animportant, way to look at, look
at things, from thatperspective.

Yeah.

CJ (44:52):
I have a question.
You, you've kind of touched onit, just now and a little
previously.
I know there's metrics that youfollow based on your, your, you
know, your p and l statements.
From a payroll perspectivethough, you know, if, if I'm, a
young entrepreneur and I'mthinking about starting this
business and I've, you know, myeyes are green and I see the
money side of it, you know, I'mlooking to get rich, I'm not

(45:15):
thinking about the fact that,you know, I have different
buckets that, you know, when Iget paid, I have to, to fill
these buckets first.
How do you go about yourpayroll?
Not only, making sure that yourbudget is, is in line to pay
your employees, but how do youpay yourself?
How do you go about, you know,giving back to yourself, number
one and number two.
Since you wear so many hats,where and how do you find time

(45:38):
for yourself?

Oh, he started the first part.
The time for myself.
That's a, that's a wholedifferent subject.
I, I, again, I, I'm a very,oriented person when it comes to
running the company.
So everything I do is onspreadsheets.
The best way to do that whenyou're figuring out payroll and
how you're gonna pay yourself isto set your budget.
I know every year going into it,I've got this much cost for

(46:02):
insurance.
I've got this much cost for, andwe use a run rate based on last
year.
You know how much it's gonnacost to fuel our trucks, how
much, you know, car ma vehiclemaintenance.
We got, I throw all those, Ithrow line items for everything
that we have, including payroll,minus myself.
I'll do that first.
So I have, I'll have that wholespreadsheet for the budget and I

(46:23):
can look at the bottom line.
It goes.
You know, our cost to run thiscompany, to keep the doors open
might be$200,000, 200 to$500,000a year.
That's just cost.
That's just employees.
That's insurance.
That's, that's, that's just torun the company, right?
So I take that number and go,okay, we need to make this much
every month in sales.

(46:43):
We need to, you know, I'll justthrow a number out there, you
know, you know, if you're amillion dollar, million dollar
and a half company, you know,our target was to do 180,000 in
sales every month.
I know that it covers the, itcovers all our expenses, and
there's money left at the bottomline for myself.
The, the, the, the, the dirtysecret or not so dirty secret of
being the entrepreneur, of beingthe person in charge.

(47:05):
Yeah.
There's gonna be days you're notpaying yourself or weeks, you're
not paying yourself.
Again, I go back to when wefirst started the conversation
that my wife kept the lights onwhen things weren't good.
I.
I, I would probably two or threeweeks sometimes without paying
myself because your employeescome first, you know, and, and
the only thing I was focused onis making payroll.
You know what?
Bill's not gonna get paid thisweek because payroll's gotta be

(47:28):
made.
But I know I'm gonna pick up acheck from a b, c contractor
next week and that's gonna coverpayroll and it's gonna cover
some bills and maybe I can getpaid.
And that's just a constant,constant.
And that never goes away.
It doesn't matter how much moneyyou're making.
I sat in front of one of thebiggest general, they were

(47:48):
biggest engineering firms intown, with the CFO.
And he goes, I still get scared.
You know, our, our, our payrollcould be.
Now in comparison, their payrollwas like a million, a million a
half a week.
And I'm like, holy crap.
I mean, I, I couldn't evenfigure that.
It made no sense to me.
It, your payroll is that much.
He goes, yeah, there's nightsI'm sweating.

(48:09):
You know, how are we gonna makethis payroll?
You know, luckily sometimesthey, the line of credit, but
their line of credit might bemaxed out.
He goes.
It doesn't matter if you're ahalf million dollar company or a
$10 million company, that fearnever goes away because you've
gotta generate it.
You gotta run the business.
Money's coming in and money'scoming out and you've gotta
control it.

(48:29):
So that's, that's the hard part.
But I, I do everything on abudget.
I, I, I have a sales plan.
I, I know what my costs areevery month.
I know what our expenses areoutside of that.
So, and, and I, I, I can tell, Ican look mid, mid month and go,
we're not gonna make ournumbers, you know, we're gonna,
we're gonna cover payroll, we'regonna cover expenses, but we're
gonna lose money.

(48:50):
Or we're gonna have a greatmonth.
And, and you know what's keep,what doesn't keep me up at night
is I know I've got a backlog ofwork that once we get that
backlog rolling, we're gonna getcaught back up.
Right.
It's not like we don't have anywork at all, but there's still,
that work's not being pushed andthat work's not being generating
revenue.
I gotta make payments this week,next week, the week after.

(49:10):
I mean, my employees, ifthey're, they get paid weekly.
So.
That has to, that has to come.
But I, I, I guess the moral ofit, Chris, is I run everything
off of, of, of spreadsheets andbudgets.
I know exactly where I'm at, at,at all times,

CJ (49:24):
And then how do you find time for yourself, not, not
speaking in a way of, payroll,but you know, you've wearing so
many hats on a daily basis.
When and where do you find timeto, to just, you know, woo side
and, and try not to think aboutthe business?

hardly ever.
I, I try to make time.
It, it's funny, man, I, I, Itell you, I, last year, end of
last year when it took, so allof I built my management team
up.
So prior to say you go backprior to 23, I was working seven
days a week, just keepingeverything rolling, man.

(50:03):
We were busy, we were doinggreat.
We were making money.
I was wearing all those hats andI finally got to the point where
we were, we're, we're doing wellenough that like every quarter
I'm gonna bring on somebody.
And I, you know, started with anoffice manager.
So I take that hat off and Ipromoted a guy from field to
installation manager, took thathat off and then I promoted a

(50:24):
guy.
I brought in a guy that's gonnabe my project manager, was the
greatest hires I had to, to dobecause I took a big hat, took
several hats off my head.
And then right at the end of theyear, I brought in the chief
operating officer that kind ofoversees and he oversees, he has
my vision of the safety programand all this other stuff that I
wanted to do that I never hadtime to do.
And then I look at the end ofthe year and I had all my

(50:44):
managers in here.
I'm like, wow, you know, nowmaybe I can go to work and start
scaling back and work four daysa week, you know, or maybe three
days a week or one one day inthe office or one day at home
and rest it, and in the office.
And it sounded great on paper.
I said, well, I got all thesepeople in place now.
I'm still doing the selling.
So, but I can do that in a, ina, in a regular time.

(51:07):
I'm still working seven days aweek still.
just that much work here.
So the trick and the, the, Iguess the world of that story is
I better hire an estimator.
'cause I, I, that's gonna freeup my time.
but I haven't pulled thattrigger yet.
So I, I try to, you know, youknow me, I'm, I'm also a
musician.
I, I play music.
I'm out in with a couple bandsand I, that's some of my

(51:29):
freedom.
That's my, my Peace time.

Mike (51:31):
What do you play?

I'm a drummer.

CJ (51:35):
instrument.

Oh yeah.

Mike (51:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I used to play drums.

Yeah.

Mike (51:39):
Yeah.

a drum

Mike (51:40):
Yeah.

is, gosh, is, let, let me, let me, let me also
answer it this way, Chris.
'cause I think, I think now Ican kind of pinpoint I do and
I've done it for the last coupleyears.
I get up at five in the morning.
I just wake up first thing I dois grab my dogs and we go for a

(52:01):
walk and I got music on and Idon't look, I don't look at my
phone, I don't, you know, I'vegot my phone on, on me, but it's
in my pocket.
I don't look at any textmessages, any emails.
If it's vibrate, I don't care.
That whole hour that I'm outwalking I've got music on,
that's my time, right?
And I'll come back home, mightwork out or I might have coffee,

(52:23):
and then I'll, I'll look at myphone and have my day and start
setting my day.
So that's my peace time lately,I've also added that I go to
lunch and I go to lunch bymyself.
And I try to, try to just dejust take everything off my head
for 45 minutes to an hour and goeat lunch, the, on my phone,

(52:43):
read some articles or somethingand business related or music
related.
And that's my time to kind ofdecompress from the morning and
get ready to come back in theafternoon and work again.
So two periods of my day, that,that's my me time.
That's the important time thatI'm like, I'm not worried about
the company in the morning whenI'm exercising or working out or

(53:03):
walking or in lunchtime.
Those are my two periods of theday that I, I just, I won't
answer the phone.
No, a voicemail.
I'll call you back at oneo'clock.
Right.
So that's, I think that's kindof one of the answers you're
looking for.
Outside of that man, I have tobe honest with you, I, most of
my time is thinking about thecompany.

(53:25):
what's the next move?
What's, you know, what are wegonna do and, and how are we
gonna grow?
And, and waking up at two in themorning and staring at the
ceiling for an hour, which isusually pretty good for me.
'cause that's when something I'mstressed out for the next, the
day before it hits me threeo'clock in the morning.
Oh, that's the, that's the fix.

CJ (53:43):
Been there.

I'm good.
I'm good.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So I don't know why that is.
a blessing, I guess, but yeah,I, I kind of like, I'm not gonna
worry about it.
'cause the answer will come tome through three in the morning.
So it would, I'll just let it,I'll let it flow and, and it
does.

CJ (53:58):
that's the side of things that, you know, somebody that's
maybe looking to start abusiness doesn't realize, you
know, you are responsible for somuch, but you don't really think
about, you know, except for themoney, the, the end game.
What's going

Yeah.

CJ (54:14):
what's gonna happen for you.
You don't think about the factthat you're constantly thinking
about what you're trying to do,you know, what you're trying to
accomplish, what you need toachieve in order to get to that
final payout.
I think.
You know, making time foryourself is very important and,
and they probably don't eventhink about the fact that not
gonna have time for yourselfonce you get going.

(54:35):
Honestly,

Right.
No, it's very rare.
You gotta pick those, thoseopportunities again.
That's my morning time.
Is, is my, that's my meantime.
Everything else is, it's, it'sgo time.
You know, it's just, you gottado it.
If you're an entrepreneur, your,your brain never cuts off.
I don't care if you're onvacation and, you know, I'm,
I'm, I'm going, okay.
Vacation in my, with my wife inEurope and I'm staring at

(54:59):
sprinkler systems.
I'm, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in theColiseum in Rome and I'm looking
at fire extinguishers going,that's pretty cool.
You know, she goes, whatcha

CJ (55:08):
listen,

Look how that, that way, or, you know, stuff like
that.
It never cuts off.

CJ (55:14):
I find myself doing that going out and, you

Yeah.

CJ (55:17):
around the city,

Yeah.

CJ (55:19):
did that system.
Oh yeah, I did that.
I did that system.
Yeah.

Mike (55:23):
All right, well, are coming up on time and we wanna
keep our promise of an hour orless, so I think we're gonna go
ahead and get into our.
little thing that we do with allof our guests, and it is a
little lightning round.
CJ tell me, tell me you got thesound this time.

CJ (55:41):
I'm

Mike (55:42):
still haven't, I still

CJ (55:43):
actually, it's on my list.
I will have it

Mike (55:46):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
It's on my list too.
So we, we both failed for thisweek, but, John, that

CJ (55:51):
I just couldn't figure out how to get it to you.
So it's in progress.

Mike (55:55):
Okay.
I mean, you could be the personwho pushed the button.
We both got the same, the samelittle system.
You could have it, you couldpush the button.
I, I give that to you.
You can have it, huh?

CJ (56:05):
much responsibility.

Mike (56:08):
I, I have trust in you.
But, in any case, so what we'regonna do is we're do a little
lightning round and I think Kenis gonna ask you, five questions
they're just.
Short, simple, sweet.
Don't think too much about it.
And to give you some pressure,I'm gonna put up a little timer
and you're gonna have one minuteto answer all five questions.

(56:33):
Does that sound good?

Let's do it.

Mike (56:36):
All right.
Let me Mr.
Tech guy over here.
There it is.
There's a little timer.
And then, yeah, I'm gonna handit over to, to Ken once he
finishes, asking the question.
I'll start it.

Ken (56:48):
Okay.
Awesome.
So after hearing you, what yousaid about being a musician, I
pulled an audible and changedone of the questions.
So here we go.
Favorite drummer or drum solo.

John Bonham, Moby Dick

Ken (57:03):
Very good.
One food you could eat everyday.

Sushi.

Ken (57:09):
What's a skill you wish you had?

Ooh, A skill I wish I had, a singer.
can't sing.

Ken (57:21):
Who would play you in a movie about your life?

Denzel.

Ken (57:29):
Favorite book or movie?

Oh, favorite movie, smokey.
And the Bandit one.

Mike (57:35):
Nice and you get a big round of applause for answering
all five questions with 15seconds left.
The first person.

CJ (57:44):
I have to say, I'm very surprised to hear you say Smokey
in the Bandit.

Ken (57:49):
Right.
I was not expecting that at all.

I can turn that movie down and do the whole
thing myself.
Trust me.

Mike (57:58):
That's awesome.

CJ (57:59):
I wouldn't pin that on you.
I would never have

I, I, I absolutely love it.

CJ (58:04):
And something that we, we forgot to, to do was, you know,
give our audience, you know,your, social media and, and your
Facebook and let them know wherethey can find you.

We just launched our new webpage and I think it's
esc-oh.com.
I don't have, I don't do a lotof social media.
I gotta get back on it.
That's another week part for me.
So I don't have a Facebook andLinked, I got LinkedIn, but I
don't do that.
I gotta get a marketing.
My, you know, story short, I hada guy that was doing all my
marketing and he passed duringCovid and I just kind of just

(58:37):
shut it down.

CJ (58:38):
Hmm.

I just launched my new website this, beginning of
this year.
So

CJ (58:44):
Okay.

Mike (58:45):
Well, it looks good.
One of the things, I don't knowif you've watched an episode or
not, but one of the things we doat the end, is just a little
tradition that, that we startedright before the show, it's
called the Wakanda Peace Pause.
it's just us you to, to sitback, a little one of one of

(59:06):
these things right here.
You're gonna smile into thecamera and just hold it for a
few seconds.
Yep.
Look, he, he already ready.
And what I'm gonna do is justlater I'm gonna take a
screenshot of it and then we'lljust use that on social media
and things like that.
But that's, that's us welcomingyou into the Black Bridge
Mindset Club.
just made that up.

(59:26):
That's pretty good, isn't it?
Nice.
All right.
So on the count, perfect.
On the count of 3, 1, 2, 3, anddone.
I got balloons.
I don't know why I got balloons.

CJ (59:43):
where'd that

Mike (59:44):
I, I don't know.
I don't know.
That was the celebration forhim.
I, I guess that that's thecelebration for him.
I don't know how they came up.
We'll figure that out later.
But yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming

Ken (01:00:00):
Thank you very much.

John Larkin (01:00:03):
on podcast.

Ken (01:00:05):
Thank you.

CJ (01:00:06):
I hope

Ken (01:00:06):
Great conversation.

CJ (01:00:07):
because I definitely did.

John Larkin (01:00:09):
Thank you.

CJ (01:00:14):
Thanks for tuning in to the Black Bridge Mindset Podcast.
If today's conversationresonated with you, don't forget
to subscribe, share, drop acomment, and leave a review.
We're building bridges, onestory, one mindset, one move at
a time.
Show our guest some love bychecking out their socials too.
Until next time, keep pushing,keep growing and keep walking in

(01:00:37):
your purpose.

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