Episode Transcript
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Toni Henson (00:03):
Today we have Dr.
Decoteau J. Irby who is anauthor, a musician, college
professor and an advocate forchildren. And he has done an
incredible work in a incisivecase study. His book is called
Stuck Improving, and it analyzesthe complex process of racial
(00:26):
equity reform in K through 12schools. Listen up.
Tony (00:37):
Welcome to Season Seven of
Black Family Table Talk. We are
your hosts, Toni and Tony. Joinus on our journey to discover
ways to build a strong blackfamily.
Toni Henson (00:47):
I can't wait until
we go again.
(01:14):
Me too.
Tony (01:15):
In the meantime, we have a
very special guest joining us at
the kitchen table this week.
Listen up.
Toni Henson (01:26):
Your work is
incredible. It is truly off the
beaten path. So it wasinteresting when I was reading
about your book- StuckImproving. Before I comment on
it, tell us about it and tell ushow you came to the title and
(01:47):
what's your message?
Dr. Irby (01:49):
Thank you for the
question. So yes, Stuck
Improving, I actually have ithere. Stuck Improving came out
last September. It's a bookabout rapidly diversify suburban
school community, working tomake a school more affirming
place where it's black and brownstudents on this high school
(02:11):
have about 1600 students. Likemany schools across the country,
school districts across thecountry, they're seeing an
influx of Latin X and blackstudents and black families,
relocating for numerousdifferent reasons. It was the
kind of situation then I startedthe project in 2013. People were
trying to figure out, what do wedo in this predominantly white
(02:33):
school community. Parents,teachers, educators, who had
live for an extended period oftime not really having to
address head on issues of racismthat existed within their
community. Finding themselves ina situation where it's
unavoidable, they have toconfront the issues of racism
(02:54):
that have existed for so manyyears and decades in their
community. So that's what thebook is about. The idea of Stuck
Improving is basically capturesthe words of what people were
saying. So when we were workingwith the community over a five
year period to do professionallearning for teachers to create
things like student union, soLatino Student Union, Black
(03:16):
Student Union, a group calledSister supporting sisters, so
student voice, familyengagement, all of those
different sorts of things thatwe're knowing are important for
creating more equitable schoolenvironments. They always will
use this language like we'remaking progress, but I feel like
we're stuck. I know that we'redoing the work. I don't know how
it's working. This is difficult.
It's hard. And so the idea ofStuck Improving is a play on
(03:37):
words. It's attempting tocapture the interplay and the
tensions that emerge andcommunities that commit
themselves to actually trying tomake their school environments
better for black and brownchildren.
On one hand is a little bit of,you take five steps forward,
(03:58):
four back, two forward - it'sthat process, which I think
black folks understand and knowthat that's the nature of change
and process in our society.
Because we have the experience,and we understand the history. I
mean, I think we're in it rightnow. We had the Barack Obama
era, and now we are in asetback, right. Experiencing a
resistance in the backlash fromthe progress that we saw several
(04:19):
years ago. So the idea is thatit attempts to capture that and
it attempts to explain what itfeels like and what the
experience is trying to actuallymake a school more equitable for
black and brown children. That'sthe sum of it. I think the
biggest takeaway that I wouldlike people to take away from
(04:39):
the book is that number one,progress is possible. But that
to make progress requires atremendous amount of struggle,
but that is possible and that weshould be working towards that
even when there's moments ofsetback. Like the political
moment where right now, I willargue is a moment where we're
seeing it a lot of setbacks. Butthat doesn't mean that we should
(05:00):
give up because we understandthat history and our progress is
not a linear thing. But it'salways this tug of war between
where we're trying to get andthe forces and the people who
don't want us to get there.
Tony (05:17):
I don't know if you coined
this phrase, but equity focused
school leadership. Can youexplain to us what do you mean
by that?
Dr. Irby (05:25):
It's not necessarily a
term that I coined, it's used
amongst many academics who focuson leadership. Sometimes people
call it leadership for equity,equity focused, equity driven.
So it comes in a couple ofdifferent variations. But
basically, what it refers to iscommitting to making sure that
achieving the goals, engaging inpractices of equity is at the
(05:49):
center of leadership. If I couldjust explain what I mean by
equity, a lot of times peoplethink that equity is like
equality. But equity is reallygrounded in this idea that you
are focused on redressing theharms, providing resources,
providing supports to the peoplewho who have historically been,
(06:11):
and who are in current times onthe margins of whatever kind of
social system it is. So in theschool context, we're talking
about the students who have beenhistorically not had access to
educational opportunities,rigor, as well as opportunities
to think about themselves indifferent ways. Like as opposed
to being in a science class,you're treating the students as
(06:35):
though they are scientistsalready. They come into the
school with a particular kind ofscientific knowledge. And so you
are working with this person tosharpen and strengthen their
scientific knowledge. They mighthave some misconceptions about
how things work when they comein. But as we know, everything
is science that we use, whetherit's like put dagger in theorem,
or whatever kind of formula,like a human being actually had
(06:58):
to develop that and come up withthat. These things didn't exist.
In the same way if we thinkabout young people, in
particular, if we think aboutblack people. As people who can
develop ideas, and who can thinkabout new theories, and that
sort of thing. A lot of it hasto do with treating. In my case,
I like to talk about blackfolks, black children, and
(07:19):
families as though they haveassets that need to be built on
an education process. Equityfocused leadership centers that
process because we know that bydefault, the system is going to
treat and give the majority ofwhite folks those kinds of
experiences and opportunitiesanyway. It's kind of a taken for
granted, by default, thisstudent will do well, these
(07:41):
white students will. The systemis designed to work for
especially middle class whitestudents. And so an equity focus
leader is a person who'scommitted to making sure and
redesigning the educationalprocess and educational
environment so that it works inparticular for students who
haven't had that benefited outand those kinds of opportunities
(08:02):
that come from.
Tony (08:03):
I have a follow up
question to that, this theory of
equity focused schoolleadership, is it applied and
majority black and brown schoolsas well as in schools where
black and brown or maybe otherminority?
Dr. Irby (08:20):
It should be in the
best of situations should be
applied wherever need be. So Itend to focus, you know, as the
book subtitle says, racialequity, I focus on racial
equity. But this idea can applyto any of the students that find
themselves marginalized ineducation process. So that could
(08:40):
be students with speciallearning needs. It could be
students with particular kindof, what we would call
disabilities, what generallypeople call it disabilities,
some of us will call it neurodiversities. Those students also
need to have their experiencestheir voices and their needs
sensor in the learning processas well. So it should ideally be
(09:02):
happening in schools, even inschools with majority black
populations, because even inthose populations, you'll find
certain students experiencingmarginalization within the
school community. It could bebased around socio economic
status, it could be based ongeography, like where they live.
They live in certain area. Itcould be based on for example,
resources and supports that theyhave at home. So when we think
(09:26):
about equity, really, theimportant thing is to think
about who's on the margin, andthen begin to design the
educational processes, routinesand structures around those
students who would benefit mostfrom additional kinds of
investments. Again, I want tomake the distinction because
it's not about equality, isreally about equity. Giving
people the resources and takingdown the barriers that don't
(09:52):
allow certain students toopportunities to gain what they
can so they can reach theirfullest potential.
Toni Henson (09:58):
Dr. Irby, I think
the work is brilliant. I am
absolutely mesmerized by whatyou're proposing. And if this
theory could be adopted byschools across the country, I'm
gonna stick a pin in it, I don'tthink it's going to make a
difference. Because I think whatwe're dealing with, and I
(10:21):
believe that we should still bestudying, however, this
disparity, and the resistance toequity is so rooted in the
psychology and the foundation ofthis country, that I am at a
point where I feel like weshould just go somewhere where
(10:46):
we don't have to continue tofight. We don't have to continue
to educate and re educate thatwe should just focus on our own.
You're broken. You have twobeautiful children. All of this
energy and time is to me, spentteaching folks that don't want
to do better. So call mehopeless. I don't know. How do
(11:15):
you move forward with thisunbelievable concept, proven
theory in amidst of this surgingresistance?
Dr. Irby (11:26):
Yeah, I appreciate
that. I wrestle with the same
question, a similar question.
I've made personal decisions. Mychildren to try to put them in
educational environments, thatthey're surrounded by black
people. So I think one thingthat I have realized, and this
is something that I would nothave and I did not know, or
would not have known to say,until I engaged in this research
(11:49):
project for seven years, is thatthere's a wide range of
variation in terms of people whowant to put forth effort. So
there are certainly a lot ofpeople who just like, I don't
care. There's certain peoplelike this is just my job. And
there's other people, bothpeople of color, black people,
(12:09):
as well as white people, oftenless many fewer in terms of
numbers, that demonstrateactions and commitments. I think
what I think about is in aparticular community and society
and a school, who I'm hopingthis book, who gravitates in his
book, are the people who wantsomething more and who believe
(12:30):
in the kind of vision forsomething better. Now, the
challenge where racism and whitesupremacy is that, as you
mentioned is ideological andstructural. All of the best
human effort ever, it requiresmajor major, kind of like
structural changes to actually,I mean, some of the structural
changes I believe in is likereparations. I would not say
(12:53):
reparations, my package would beexpansive, and all encompassing,
like we need money, land, everyblack child should be born with
tax. XYZ, tie it all in. Takeit all into the current system
that exists right now. I thinkmajor overhaul with tax reforms
for billionaires, all thosethings. So I think reparations
(13:15):
is doable. That's what I thinkthose sorts of things are the
really the best solution,because they would allow then
for us to be able to do thingsexactly like what you're talking
about.
If we want it to, I'm from SouthCarolina. I grew up in South
Carolina. If we wanted to go toSouth Carolina, if we had the
(13:36):
land, if we had the resourcesand that sort of thing, that we
could establish something thatwill look more like our own. The
problem right now, especially inregards to education, and most
other social systems that aresupposed to provide for us in
this society, the racism is sodeeply baked into them, that
it's very difficult to thinkabout what an alternative would
(13:56):
be. I mean this is a globalphenomenon. So the question I
always have in my mind is, wheredo we go? How do we get there? I
think, some of what I writeabout in this book, and I always
try to tell people that thisbook is not like, I didn't write
this for beginners people. It'snot the like, what do you
believe in racism? Do youbelieve in, you know, do you
(14:17):
believe white supremacy exists?
You might have no, right. I tryto jump right in with the hopes
that people who read this kindof book and are exposed to the
kinds of things that I writeabout, can see and imagine for a
different future. And I thinkour greatest hope, this sounds
so cliche, are the young people.
So I write about this particularschool community. And I spend
(14:42):
some time writing about theyoung people and a kind of
student voice and them feelinglike they have power. I think
they have the power to lead usto somewhere that we probably
haven't even imagined. And thatas educators and parents in this
village is our responsibility isto try to that creativity and
ambition alive and not let it bestamped out as they come of age
(15:05):
in a white supremacist society.
So we're gonna keep thoseimaginations going, I think
that'll get us to a differentkind of social system.
Tony (15:15):
Aside from the obstacles
of racism, we know that exists.
At one point in my career I'vebeen a banker for over almost 30
years, but early on, I aibbleand dabble with and education.
Took the exam to be a schoolprincipal, etc. All the theories
and things we're talking aboutculture and climate. I want an
(15:37):
environment, regardless, if it'smajority black or majority
white, that children of color,have the opportunity to learn
and pick up critical thinkingskills. As long as they have the
tools to deal with the obstaclesin life. The racism or whatever
(16:00):
it is, how does your theory dealwith the climate and culture
because we all know all schoolsnot equal. Some schools, I mean
the bar is so low, nobody can besuccessful. And then you have
schools where the bar is high,but they're not teaching to the
(16:22):
Black and Brown. And then youhave sub schools, they teach to
everybody. That's one of thethings my wife and I did when we
moved to South, we look for aschool that was diversified. The
black students was doing as wellas the white students and other
students in it. We don't want togo to majority school, majority
(16:43):
white school. And then I teachin the black kids that that
doesn't make any sense. So howdoes your concept factor in
climate and culture andleadership in schools?
Dr. Irby (16:54):
A lot of it focuses on
many of the things that you
talked about. A lot of it getsto the root of how people in a
particular school, think abouttreat and educate young people.
I do think there's somedifferences developmentally
(17:14):
about where children could,should, and who they should be
around. I think differentlyabout younger black children in
particular, and I'm much morevigilant as sensitive to who has
access to the little ones, whomight not necessarily be able to
articulate some of what theyexperienced in their hands. I
(17:36):
also think that there's thisthis aspect when they're in
these formative years thatrequires people to treat them as
though they like magical, and ifthey can carry that with them,
it that has a long lastingeffect. It's an incredible
resource that children have, ifthey have people in their life,
(17:57):
who treat them like they justare just like magical. My
grandmother was that for me. Itwas funny, I think I might have
put this in the part of thebook, when I talked about my
upbringing, but my grandma washot when Barack Obama won,
mainly because she was like, hewas supposed to be the first
black president. I voted for meanyway, though. To have somebody
(18:25):
like that in your life and themore exposure they have,
especially like elders andpeople who just have this
unwavering belief in them.
That's something that's a kernelthat children can carry forward
them for a long time. So I thinkthat's one part, especially in
those formative years. Inaddition to that, the academics
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piece is really important. Butit kind of goes back to what I
was talking about before interms of you will teach them in
ways that reflect what you whoyou think they are and what you
expect for them to be in termsof their potential. For example,
one of the classes that I teachat my university is about
(19:08):
instructional leadership. So alot of what we do is we talk
about what kind of instructionchildren and young people get
in. One of the things that's acrisis is that in the United
States. Most of the learning isbased on memorization and
procedures. So the problem is,is that you don't come you don't
(19:28):
become a strong problem solverby learning procedures. You can
be a good test taker, you canactually get pretty good grades
because most of the standardizedtests require you to be able to
follow procedures. So if youthink about how we do math,
typically you mult you memorizethe multiplication facts, you
memorize these things, you learna procedure, and then your
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ability to demonstrate masteryis to develop the right answer.
What I would like to see andwhat I think is really important
for a child is that theyactually you build in
opportunity for them to makemistakes, and persist,
regardless of whether they getto the right answer or not.
(20:09):
Because the problems thatthey're going to be required to
solve, in the world climatechange don't have a specific
answer. There's no procedure.
The most important challengesthat we see in our society don't
necessarily have procedures thatyou can follow to solve them.
They are complex, and theyrequire people who can persist,
who understand how to learn fromfailure, and so on, and so
forth. And so I feel like I'mgiving children an opportunity,
(20:34):
giving young people theopportunity to do kind of like
problem based learning, to havereal problems put in front of
them, are the things that arereally important. I'll give you
a concrete example of somethingthat the kind of things I like
to do with my children. So ifyou have, for example, a typical
teacher might have you dosomething like learn how to
(20:57):
measure square footage orsomething, calculate square
footage, so you have to use thesquare footage, but then they
might give an assignment, like,go home, and measure the square
footage of a room. That's allright, there's a little bit of
application, but you're stillfollowing the basic procedure of
like, I need to count across theroom this way, count across the
room this way, and then multiplyto get it. A much more
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challenging thing for a youngmind to develop problem solving
is to give them a blank room andsay, we're going to have a
reception, a wedding orwhatever. We got to fit 100
people in here. Here's thetables that you can use. How are
we gonna fit 100 people in here.
(21:43):
You're gonna get all the samestuff. You got to understand
square footage of the room. Yougot to understand the table. You
got to understand the chair.
Using those same basic mathfunctions, but you're doing it
in a way to create creative,which you can have groups of
students with different levelsof abilities have totally
different outcomes of how you'regoing to serve the room.
Some might use round tables thatare eight feet, both as opposed
(22:05):
to 10 feet, some might fiteverybody and with long tables.
Give them the opportunity toproblem solve, to go in and say
our goal is to fit 100 peopleinto this reception, here's the
dimensions of the chairs and thetables - round, square,
rectangular. We need to be ableto fit people in here and we
need a dance floor too. So yougot to make sure there's room
for the dance floor. That'sconcrete stuff that you can get
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third graders to do. That willtake them probably a week or
two. But they will learn aboutsquare footage in a way that
they'll have a conceptualunderstanding and application in
a way that they never will ifyou just ask them to do the
previous two things that Italked about. So for me, I think
that the instructional methodsand what we're asking students
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to do, is what I'm reallylooking for when I step into a
school space, and if I can seechildren having those
opportunities, which, again,back to your point, brother,
Antonio, is that not only doblack children often not get
those opportunities.
Unfortunately, most children inthe United States don't get
those kind of opportunities.
Toni Henson (23:11):
You made a very
poignant point, you got
application there. And then youalso have the opportunity to
integrate technology. And youmay have a burgeoning engineer
or a budding architect. Thatexposure is definitely
important. One thing that youjust said, how we are losing
(23:35):
ground on the world stage. Andmy husband and I, we spent a lot
of time in Ghana, andinteracting with the school
students there. And one of thethings that became very evident
to me was how advance the youngpeople are. Still critical
(23:55):
thinkers. Very good at problemsolving. As if it's second
nature from a very, very youngage. We've lost generations,
kids. So what do we do now? Whatdo parents do now? I'm at a
point where I'm saying tomyself, we've got to save our
(24:15):
children. It's a life or deathsituation. They're being
traumatized by the hostility inthis country, and at the same
time, falling in our ranking ineducation. So please, respond.
Dr. Irby (24:30):
Yeah, it's a real
challenge. It's something that I
even, I wrestle with. Having twochildren now, and what I do is a
workaround, which is a lot ofwhat I was just describing to
kind of supplement. Give themchallenging things to help them
be problem solvers. But, I mean,I think you're right on point. I
(24:52):
think about I have examples ofwhen I go into a school, they're
supposed to be hight performingand the students can solve
problems, they can doprocedures, they can get right
answers. But if you put like anew or challenging or complex
problem in front of them, a lotof times they don't even know
(25:14):
how to collaboratively work togo about it, don't have kind of
like, I guess the pros are ableto persist through challenges
and those sorts of things. Andon the other hand, it's been
instances. I remember I wentinto this school one time, but
just activities I would do whenI would go to schools, it's kind
of like a critical thinkingactivity. Most of the time, they
(25:35):
would take students 30-45minutes to figure it out. I went
into the school that was like,really in the hood, this is in
Milwaukee. I used to live inMilwaukee. And I went, and I did
this activity with some studentsat this school and they knocked
it out in like, five minutes. SoI'm like, Okay, well, that kind
(25:56):
of messed up my workshop,because I got to kind of make
some stuff up here. When did Iexpect to get this this quickly?
I mean, but it was fast. And soI think, again, this kind of
goes back to the idea of theassets that students have
because students, many of thestudents will be will have low
expectations of and will giveworksheets, have incredible
(26:19):
capacities to solve complexproblems, situational awareness
that a lot of times students whomight be from more affluent
communities or whatnot, don'thave. What I'm saying is that
their ability to problem solveis an asset. And if they were
really thinking about like howdo we we see these children as
(26:41):
problem solvers. We understandthem as problem solvers. How do
we continually build on that, itmakes everything easier when
they get to the college level. Ican tell you how many undergrads
that I've had and I can kind oftell what kind of school they
came from, because it's almostlike they were not necessarily
robots, but just don't even havean opinion. You can't even
(27:07):
really engage in a conversationin a way that demonstrates that
they're having an opinion,because their whole education
socialization, has been notabout having an opinion, not
about solving a problem, notabout taking perspectives, but
about coming up with the rightanswer, or writing the perfect
sentence. I guess I didn'treally answer your question, I
(27:28):
guess I'm just kind ofreflecting in terms of building
off of what you were talkingabout the difficulty of being
able to find the educationalkind of environment that works
well to create people who areproblem solvers.
Toni Henson (27:44):
You know, one of
the things that I do, I believe,
is that you have to advocate foryour children, however you can.
And we, you have to take stuffoff your plate, in order to be
an advocate, and also always bein crisis management mode. And
one of the things that Irealized when I got pregnant
(28:04):
with my son and I had a nanny, Iwas going to work, I was going
to have this wonderful careerand, and law enforcement, I
worked for the prosecutor'soffice, making money, Nordstrom
shopping, designer shoes, sportscar. And then I have my
daughter, and took my son to thedoctor, and my son cry when he
(28:32):
got to meet me, he went to thenanny. And my world was crushed.
And I said right then Oh, no,this is what I've been told is
good. But this is not actuallywhat's good. I don't want to be
the total essence woman. I justwant to be mom right now. So I
quit my job, we moved out of ourhouse into an apartment. We made
(28:56):
a radical change, or thequestion is knowing what you
know, give people permission tobe radical. And to bring in
consultants like you to teachprofessional development
classes, to teachers and how weas a parent, can have that voice
(29:16):
in our communities.
Dr. Irby (29:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
100%. I think very similarly. Ithink there might be one slight
difference, but I always tellpeople that making sure black
children get what they need,educationally is a struggle and
a fight. Whatever the situationis, and so you choose your
(29:42):
fight, whether that's going tobe we're going to move and
relocate or whether you're gonnabe very involved in the school
that you in, whether that'sstaying in crisis mode, and
always being like they're inpresent. It's just what you got
to do. I'm at the school. Mywife is a member of the local
(30:06):
school council. Because we gotto be there. My mama was at the
school. I was a little bit of adifficult student. I never will
forget my mom. So she had me ina couple of different schools, I
moved a lot of schools, and shekind of maneuvered to try to
(30:27):
find the right school for us.
But by the time I got intomiddle school I used to kind of
show up, and then my mom startedvolunteering in the office every
Friday. It wasn't before, maybean hour or two hours, she helped
him volunteer in the frontoffice. That was game changing
(30:47):
for me. There's multipledifferent ways to fight for your
children's education. What Ialways tell people, if you're
not fighting some kind of fight,it's a problem. Because it's
always gonna be some kind offight. Whether they're at
school, in afluent school, andwith a handful of black
(31:10):
children, or whether it's innercity school with a lot of black
people, they're supposed to beculturally responsive and
supposed to focus on blackhistory. They got other
problems. This is alwayssomething. So you have to know
and understand that in order forthem to get what they need is
going to require your activeengagement and involvement in a
(31:30):
fight. Now, the thing that I'malways mindful of the resources
that we have, the flexibilitythat I have, and that sort of
thing. And so I try to talkabout what people can do in a
way that's non judgmental, andalso not to suggest like, if
you're not doing this, you'renot a good parent, we don't care
or whatever. But it's importantto try to figure out the ways to
(31:56):
be involved. And for a lot ofparents, that means getting
involved with otherorganizations, I realized that I
have quite a bit of power interms of my like, professional
standing status, and even theknowledge I have about how
school works and how to interactwith the, with the schools. But
what I tell other people isthey're like, numbers is power
too. You got to figure out likehow you're going to be powerful,
(32:17):
and where you're gonna get somepower from, voting and elected
if you have an elected schoolboard, that's power. Going to
talk to the people at the schoolboard is power. Even
relationships, establishingstrong relationships is power.
If you have a special bit ofknowledge about something, you
got to engineering, backgroundand math, that's power. So part
(32:37):
of it is and I always encouragepeople to utilize and step into
the power that you have whateverit might be, and wield that
power, to make sure that ourchildren get what they need. So
if not multiple different ways,and I'm always mindful not to
say this is what y'all shoulddo, this we shouldn't do. But
(32:58):
people really need to thinkabout what power they have and
use that power to make sure yourchildren get the kind of
education that they need. Andlike I say, one of my things is
my things is like struggle isit's always a struggle.
Tony (33:13):
I totally agree with you,
I just want to go back to
something you said very earlyon. I worked for someone early
my career, he was a formercommissioner of education. He
said every child should have atleast one person in their life
that is crazy about them.
Outright crazy about them. Andthat does everything to a
(33:37):
child's self esteem, to go outthere and get things done. And
it's so much for thatconfidence, when you have that
one person in your life. So it'sa lot of things we could do but
that's one of the things I thinkyou mentioned earlier, that we
should definitely put in theequation along with using our
(34:00):
power to influence and makechanges in our child's
education.
Dr. Irby (34:09):
Just the follow up on
that, one of the things when I
do these kinds of like climateassessments of schools, one of
the survey things is like, whoare the adults that you can go
to. Who got your back, there hasto be one or two adults. This is
something very concrete that mayhopefully your listeners will
(34:30):
just latch on to is like, yougotta know from your child. You
can have a back but who in theschool got your back and you
need to find out who that personis that sees the light and the
potential of your child. And yougot to desk the person and it
might be different. You have twodifferent children. Some people
might not gravitate to thischild, some might gravitate to
(34:52):
the other one. But when you seesomebody gravitate, you really
got to work with them to makesure they have multiple
champions and somebody who couldreally champion them from within
the school organization. So it'samazing to me because we do the
climate surveys with students,and we break it down by like
race and gender and everything.
And it's amazing how manystudents, one of the questions
is, I have an adult that I cango to, to help me with a
(35:14):
personal problem. In the school,I have an adult in the school
that I can go to, to help mewith academic problem, that sort
of thing. I have somebody who Iknow really cares about me here.
They got to be able to name whothat person is. One of the
things I either work withadministrators and building
leaders on this is like, everychild in the school should have
that person. In the schoolbuilding. So some schools have
(35:34):
this organization, this thingwhere they do like these. They
assign them kind of, like whenthey're in ninth grade, high
school is in particular, butthey should be doing this at
all, in all schools, as theyfound, and they have that one
person who kind of like, stayswith them, who's their kind of
champion in that schoolcommunity. It is the person who
can interface with the parentand administrators or teachers
(35:59):
who a parent might be havingissues with, because dealing
with schools, deaing withteachers or dealing with
administrators, for the for mostpeople is very intimidating. It
takes practice, it takes goingup there, it takes being
assertive, you're gonna getcalled names, you're gonna be a
problem, your child gonna be theproblem, they don't want you
(36:21):
here, when you come and peoplerolling their eyes, that's part
of it. And so building thecapacity to be able to do that
it's easier when you have thatperson inside the school
community, who also believes youchampions your child as well,
because interfacing with thesesystems, and the schools in
particular is is intimidating.
(36:42):
Most people go to the teacherand parent conference, and just
sit there and listen to what theteacher got to say. That's what
most people do.
You actually can say, like, Igot some questions, right. And
you can do those things, you canset an example, as a student
work. Most people, even if theyknow, they can't do that, don't
(37:03):
do it. Like I'm thinking aboutmy wife, she's learned over time
by watching me, but we wouldleave a conference with teachers
or administrators, and she wouldjust like, it's really good for
me to see what you're taught howyou are interacting, because I
would never think that I coulddo that. Cuz I can be like, Oh,
I appreciate that. Let's get tothe math. Or somebody might say,
(37:27):
Well, your student has theirreading or level XYZ or their
math is I'm just like, okaythat's cool. That's how they do
on a standardized test. What arethey learning? What are you
seeing today? What are youseeing that they don't know,
that we could be building on?
Thank you for that. Can you showme some work and show me some
(37:48):
examples, like parents can doall of that but some don't know
that they can do that. And thenthere's even more who know they
can. But because it's a certainscript that you walk into when
you go into a school, and theteachers think that scripted
beyond the expert, you won'tlisten, as opposed to thinking
of as a partnership and theseconferences as a really
(38:08):
opportunity to conference in.
Dialogue and communicate abouthow to support the child. A lot
of people are intimidated by theprocess, which is why I think
report card nights aren't aswell attended as they should be,
because we meet in around areport car as opposed to a
meeting around student learning.
A report card is a report, itdoesn't necessarily tell you
(38:31):
anything about what your childis learning, how to grow and how
they're developing. And so Ithink those kinds of things are
really important to convey tolisteners today. To think about
those sorts of things as well.
You can't be scared, you kind ofgot to go do it. It gets easier
over time, but teachers andstaff talked about it, talked
(38:52):
down to me, they taught me.
Toni Henson (38:55):
You're Dr. Irby,
come on!
Dr. Irby (39:01):
Somebody told me they
Google. Who is this crazy parent
doing up here. They're notcoming to me and a week later
and it's like Dr. Irby now.
Toni Henson (39:20):
I think you made a
really good point. You talked
about relationships. And youtalked about managing the
relationship. And I think justlike anything you navigate, it's
you. You have just really justopened up a floodgate of ideas
that you don't have to take whatthe status quo culture is, you
can go in there and say, Listen,I want to partner with you. I
(39:44):
want to partner with you intheir learning. I don't want
this relationship to beadversarial. I want you to know
that I'm in your corner. I thinksometimes teachers need to hear
that. Thank you for thosecomments. So that was really
good.
Dr. Irby (39:59):
Getting close to the
report card is nice but meet
outside of the report card, itis such a high stakes, stressful
time to talk with someone who'ssupposed to be a partner in
helping your child learn thatyou got to follow up with them
outside of that context. In thevast majority of people
(40:20):
encounter teachers during thisvery stressful moment for
everybody. Students, parents,everybody's really stressed
about the report card, you gotto find ways to engage in the
other than a report card.
Toni Henson (40:37):
I think we're in
radical times, and they're,
they're gonna call for radicalchanges, and paradigm shifts in
our outlook on the systems thatwe engage with, especially the
systems that we engage with,with our kids.
Dr. Irby (40:55):
I 100% agree. But
yeah, I think even you bringing
it up, bringing it back the ideaof the scripts is that, it's
very important to notice them,so that you know, when you are
following it, and in it, andthen once you notice that just
having to taking the risk tostep outside, and wonderful
things can happen when you stepoutside of the scripts.
Toni Henson (41:18):
I'm so happy you
came. Dr. Irby, thank you. I
love the work that you're doing.
I just want to say keep doingit. Keep fighting, I'm tired but
another generation is coming inanother way.
Tony (41:32):
And it takes the parents
have to be participants in the
process. Just can't sit back.
Look at the situation, see whatthey saying about your child and
put an action plan together.
Toni Henson (41:44):
And you don't have
to believe what they're saying
about your child.
Tony (41:48):
This is Black Family Table
Talk.
Toni Henson (41:50):
That's what's up!
Tony (41:56):
That concludes this week's
talk. We hope you found some
tools to add to your strongblack family toolbox. And be
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Toni Henson (42:14):
Don't forget to
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(42:56):
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