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July 17, 2024 33 mins

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What if you could transform your business by mastering the art of articulating value? As women in the consulting industry, we often face unique challenges in adequately communicating our distinct value to potential clients. Value articulation is a vital part of standing out in your industry. Mastering this skill will attract more clients, elevate your professional standing, and increase your earning potential. In this episode, we explore strategies to help you stay ahead of industry trends and understand your client's evolving needs so that you can effectively articulate the direct benefits of your services and confidently showcase your impact to attract the clients you deserve.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
They say, the odds are stacked against us as women,
especially women of color,trying to thrive in the
consulting world.
But rather than wait for a seatat the table that may never
come, what if we build our owntables?
What if we channeled ourtalents into guiding each other
towards the success we deserve?
Welcome to the Black GirlsConsulting Podcast.
I'm your host, dr AngelinaDavis, and I've walked the path

(00:25):
from healthcare consultant to amentor for women like you,
ambitious, unstoppable and readyto make waves in the consulting
world.
This podcast is your go-to spotfor all things entrepreneurial
consulting.
For us as women, especiallywomen of color, think of it as
your weekly coffee date with afriend who's here to dish out
real talk on building a solidbusiness, elevating your thought

(00:48):
leadership and mastering thatall important mindset.
And let's not forget, we'redoing all of this while
balancing day jobs, family lifeand running teams.
Yes, we can do it all.
So if you're ready to dive intohow you can grow a thriving
consultancy or get strategiesand insights that actually fit
your busy lifestyle, then you'rein the right place.

(01:09):
Grab your coffee, tea or, hey,even a glass of wine, I won't
judge and let's get started.
Hello, hello, hello.
Welcome to the Black GirlsConsult 2 podcast.
I'm your host, dr AngelinaDavis, and if you are tuning in

(01:35):
for the first time, welcome in.
This is going to be a real talkconversation about consulting,
all the things consulting andanything associated with it, as
well as maintaining our busylives as women who are trying to
excel in this space.
But then also, if you'rereturning and tuning in again,
welcome back Now.
I have a great episode lined upfor you today.

(01:56):
But before we dive into that,let me just say it's really,
really hot.
Here I am in Atlanta, georgia,so deep South, and it has been
hot Not just today, not justthis week, but it's been hot for
a little while now, really allsummer, and that's very unusual
for us.
Usually we don't get this levelof heat until August, but I was

(02:20):
actually posting on Threads theother day that once it gets
over 100, it doesn't reallymatter, it's all the same.
Whether it's 102 or 103 orfeels like 110, it is the same.
It's just hot and miserable inmy book.
I know some people like theheat.
I'm not one of those.
So I hope you're staying coolthis summer and enjoying

(02:40):
vacationing or being with familyor just enjoying your
day-to-day work, whatever it maybe that's going on right now.
But enough of that.
I know you didn't tune in tohear a weather report, so let's
get started.
Look, this episode today is onethat I have been wanting to have
for a while now, because weoften face this one particular

(03:01):
challenge over and over again inour business, especially when
we're thinking about sales, whenwe think about marketing and
finding clients, and that isbeing able to effectively
articulate our value asconsultants.
You know we hear articulateyour value.
You have to articulate yourvalue.
We hear that phrase all of thetime, but the question is, how

(03:24):
do you actually do that?
I mean, you know that yourexpertise and your skills are
really valuable as a consultant.
People know that being aconsultant and having this
knowledge is something that isuseful and that's desirable.
But how can you prove that justsimply possessing this
knowledge or this asset isenough?

(03:46):
You know, really to truly standout with the clients that we
want to serve, we have to beable to effectively communicate
our value to them in a way thatreally drives them to want to
invest in our services.
So this involves understandingyour unique value proposition,
communicating in a way thatresonates with your clients to

(04:07):
set you apart from yourcompetition, and just really
understanding how to convey yourvalue in a way that helps you
to build a business around yourideas.
So we're going to talk aboutthat today and dive a lot deeper
, because this is the key tobuilding trust, to being able to
establish your authority andthen, ultimately, for you to do

(04:30):
what I know you want to do,which is secure high paying
contracts, and many consultantsstruggle with this, and so we
want to avoid the missedopportunities and undervaluing
our services and not generatingtype of revenue that we need
because we don't know how toarticulate it.
We're going to solve thatproblem today.
So in this episode, you aregoing to learn how to define and

(04:53):
articulate your value as aconsultant.
We're going to talk about thecritical differences between
actual value and perceived value, and then what I'm going to do
is I'm going to lay out someactionable strategies that you
can use to be able tocommunicate more clearly and
more concisely so that it reallydoes land and resonate with

(05:14):
your target audience, and by theend of this episode, my goal is
for you to have the tools andthe insights that you need to
present your value in acompelling way, so that your
clients or your potentialclients will recognize and
appreciate the full extent ofwhat you have to offer.
So if you're interested inlearning more, then stay tuned.

(05:35):
We're about to dive in.
So I want to start ourdiscussion by first defining
what it means to articulate yourvalue, because I do feel like
people say this all the time.
It's almost like a catchphrase.
I want to start by just givingyou this example.
I want you to imagine that youare shopping for a new phone.
You are getting the latestiPhone update.

(05:57):
I don't even know what numberwe're on right now because, to
be honest with you, I'm lookingat my phone.
It's time to get a new one.
I don't.
I don't even know what versionI have.
Either way, think about youbeing in the Apple store.
You're trying to update yourphone.
You're looking at new phonesand you're trying to decide
between two.
You know, usually with iPhonesit has like the regular and the
pro or the pro max, and soyou're looking at these.

(06:18):
You know phones and they havesimilar features, but one
actually explains how theirphone or how the phone will make
your life easier.
Maybe you're reading everythingabout how it'll provide a
longer battery life or it hasfaster performance, or, for me,
it takes better pictures.
All those things make it veryeasy for you to understand how

(06:41):
this particular version is goingto be better.
And maybe the other one doesn'treally spell all that out quite
clearly.
Maybe they offer some of thesame effects or some of the same
benefits and options, but oneof the sales tax just goes into
far more detail that isrelatable and that you can

(07:03):
understand, and so more thanlikely, that particular one is
the one that you are more likelyto buy.
And the same principle and thesame concept applies to us in
consulting.
We have to be able to sharewhat we do in a way that people
clearly understand not only whatit is that we're offering, but

(07:28):
how that affects them andimpacts them.
What is the benefit for them?
Everything that they interpretis going to be in the context of
how it's going to impact theirlives.
So some of the key elements ofarticulating our value include,
of course, our unique valueproposition.

(07:48):
Remember, this is what makesyou different from other
consultants.
Maybe you have a unique problemsolving method or a deep
expertise in a particular nichedarea.
That UVP, that unique valueproposition, is going to help
you communicate that difference.
It also involves quantifiableresults.

(08:08):
I want you to think about thisas your highlight reel.
You're sharing specificexamples of how you've helped
clients in the past.
You know, for instance, you maysay I've helped a client
increase their sales by 30% insix months.
A statement like that givessomeone numbers.
It gives a concrete example.
It helps what you do and theresults that you can provide

(08:32):
appear and feel more tangible.
And then you want to thinkabout client benefits.
This is a focus on what's in itfor your clients, right?
So how is your work going tohelp them improve their life or
their business?
How is it going to save themtime?
How is it going?
Life or their business?
How is it going to save themtime?
How is it going to boost theirprofits?
How is it going to providestrategic insights that they
can't get elsewhere?
And, of course, all of this hasto be packaged in a way that is

(08:55):
clear, so that the person whois receiving the information
understands what you're talkingabout.
They have to be able to imagineall of these things happening
for them, so it has to bestraightforward and easy to
understand.
All of these elements are atplay when we're talking about
articulating value.
It's understanding how to dothese key things.

(09:18):
That sounds more complex andcomplicated than it actually is.
I want us to break this apartand just explore how we can do
this in everyday life, and oneof the things I want to share is
that I want you to, as we moveforward in this episode, think
about articulating your value asyour ability to have a

(09:41):
conversation with a friend in away that helps them to see and
understand why you are specialand they want to invite you into
their lives.
Right, that's what we're doingas a consultant, as an advisor,
as a business, and in order forus to even begin this journey,
we have to explore thedifference between what is

(10:04):
actual value and what isperceived value, because we're
talking about articulating it.
Right, we're talking about thecommunication of this
information, but first we haveto define what we're trying to
communicate, and in reality,there is a difference between
what is actually valuable andwhat our potential client or
audience perceived as beingvaluable.
So, in terms of actual valuable, that's truly what you offer

(10:28):
your skills, your expertise, theresults you deliver.
That's value.
That is value.
There's no doubt about that.
No-transcript, it's going toperceive those things to be
valuable.
Now, the thing about perceivedvalue is that it is subjective.

(10:50):
It's based on how your clientssee you, how they see what you
offer impacting their lives.
So this perception isinfluenced by a lot of different
things.
It's influenced by our abilityto communicate effectively.
It's influenced by branding.
It's influenced by branding.
It's influenced by their values.

(11:12):
It's influenced by just so manythings that we may not be able
to control, but we need to takeinto consideration.
I'm gonna use a very commonexample.
I want you to think aboutTarget versus Walmart.
Now, let's be honest, walmartis a very necessary store, right
?
It's the place where we can goand we find everything from

(11:33):
tires to clothes to food.
I mean, it is all under oneroof.
So oftentimes we're going tofind ourselves somehow going to
Walmart for something at somepoint in our lives.
We usually end up at a Walmart.
Also, it's going to beavailable and accessible in most

(11:54):
cities, even if it's one of thelittle small Walmart
neighborhood type setups.
But now, when you think aboutTarget, you don't find as many
of them as Walmart.
But there's a differentperception of value between the
Walmart and the Target.
Now, when you walk into Target,we all joke around about how
you walk out spending hundredsupon hundreds of dollars because

(12:17):
the experience is amazing.
The items are beautiful, thestore is so clean, the people
are friendly.
Now the experience, everythingthat is a part of that
environment and that experienceof going into a Target store is
what elevates its perceivedvalue over the value of Walmart,
although you can probably getthe same items and oftentimes

(12:40):
even get the items cheaper atWalmart.
But that perception of valuemakes a difference.
So even in consulting, we haveto focus on this perceived value
.
We have to think about theperception, because that
perception can outweigh ouractual value and I know that can
sometimes be frustrating tohear right, because we know that

(13:00):
we have a certain level ofvalue that we are offering, and
sometimes it is high, it'sexceptionally high.
However, if we cannot packageit in a way where it's going to
be perceived that way, then weare going to run into problems.
I want us to start byconsidering how we can impact
that perception.
One of the things that we can dois make a good first impression

(13:23):
.
I mean, that's just the basics.
We need to make a good firstimpression and that comes from
things such as your website,your LinkedIn profile, your
initial communications thatpeople are seeing the posts that
you may make on social media.
All of these things set thetone for the future
communication that you're goingto be providing and interactions

(13:44):
that people have with yourbrand and your business.
So, in terms of firstimpression, we want to come off
as being professional, and onceagain, I don't want us to make
the definition ofprofessionalism so tight that we
don't give ourselves the roomfor creativity and innovation,
but we want to make sure thatpeople can see us in a light

(14:08):
where we're trustworthy.
Right.
We want to give an impressionthat is lasting in a positive
way, and the other way that wecan do this is by having others
speak highly of us, and thattypically comes through client
testimonials and other socialproof that we have, that's,

(14:28):
someone else vouching for thefact that we are trustworthy or
it's been great to work with us.
Those are things that also helpto change someone's perception
of our business and our service.
The consistency at which we'reshowing up just shows that we
take things seriously.
At which we're showing up justshows that we take things

(14:49):
seriously.
It reinforces the positiveperception that they may have
had from the first impression ofmaybe what they've heard by
word of mouth, and then ourbrand.
Let's be honest, the way thatwe brand ourselves matters.
We want to think long and hardabout how we want to show up
online, on stages, in publishedcontent.
We want that to reallyrepresent our values, our core

(15:10):
values at heart.
We want it to represent ourbeliefs, our philosophy.
All of those things need to bepart of the brand that we're
putting out into the world,because all of these components
first impressions, way othersperceive us in terms of client
testimonials or other word ofmouth feedback our consistency,

(15:30):
our brand all of those thingshelp to create the perception
that others have of us asconsultants and as a business,
and this is going to be whatmakes it either more or less
likely for clients to engagewith us.
You know, I know this issounding very academic and

(15:53):
walking through point by point,but I want to break this down on
a different level.
Maybe this will make more sense.
Let's talk about BlackBerry Nowfor you who may not remember
BlackBerry, I know it's been along while, but BlackBerry was
big back in the day.
I remember my husband had aBlackBerry and I was so jealous

(16:14):
because he seemed so superprofessional with that little
black phone with the bigkeyboard and everybody just had
one.
If you were in business, if youwere doing anything that showed
that you were a mover and ashaker, you had a BlackBerry.
And at that point BlackBerryhad the market.
They were the dominant playerin the smartphone market and

(16:36):
they really were on the rise.
Now, as we all know, we don'tsee BlackBerrys around anymore.
As a matter of fact, I thinkthey may have gotten bought out
by Sprint I can't remember thewhole history, don't quote me on
that but they're not out thereanymore.
We're not running to the storeto get the next BlackBerry.
Of course we run out and wewant the next Apple.

(16:56):
If you're an Android girl, thenyou may run out and get the
next, the biggest and the bestAndroid, but you're not going
and trying to seek out aBlackBerry.
But BlackBerry was known for itssecure email services.
It had a lot of things goingfor it.
It had the secure services, ithad the physical keyboard that
make it really easy for you totype, especially when you're

(17:19):
using it as your main device asa business professional, and it
really was unparalleled in termsof its security and
productivity features.
It was the phone.
It was the man or the girl backin the day, the woman back in
the day.
However, when Apple came alongand then Samsung also entering

(17:40):
the market with touchscreens andbroader app ecosystems, the
problem was that BlackBerrydidn't really adapt.
It didn't change the way thatit was approaching its
positioning in the market.
It didn't take seriously thethreat that these other

(18:02):
businesses pose to their market,to their standing in the market
, and so BlackBerry's primaryvalue, which was set around
being secure and efficientcommunication tools, was
challenged, because whatconsumers began to fall in love
with were some of the newerinnovations.

(18:23):
Right, we wanted touch screens,we wanted a lot of apps to use
on our phones so that we canhave more app-driven experiences
, and so, in the grand scheme ofthings, blackberry's perceived
value diminished.
Number one this is a reminderto us that the value doesn't
remain the same, that we have tocontinue to adjust our

(18:45):
positioning so that we canremain in line with what's
actually happening in the market, in the marketplace and in the
world at large or in ourindustry.
So the company continue toemphasize security and keyboards
, and you know, and that waswhile their competitors Apple,

(19:07):
samsung were all focused oninnovation.
They were focused on the userexperience, they were focused on
making your phone fun anduseful for business.
They were just focused on youbeing able to use this device
for any and everything in yourlife.
And now let's just stop here.
Who do you think won in yourlife?

(19:28):
And now let's just stop here.
Who do you think won?
Of course, apple and Samsungand these other phones won
because they were focused on theperception of value from the
consumer's perspective, whileBlackBerry was stuck on what was
actual value, which really wasstill their actual value.
However, they did not focus onhow to communicate that value or

(19:51):
even adapt their approach sothat it can be in alignment with
the perception of value in themarket.
They failed to adapt, so that'sone big mistake that they made.
In actuality, that caused themto lose sales, because it just
didn't meet the market'sexpectations.
The second thing is that theyhad inadequate messaging, like I

(20:14):
talked about before.
They weren't focused on thethings that the market was
focused on, while Apple andother competitors were focused
on the user's experience and howeasy it is to use their phone
and how pretty it is to look atthings on their screen and how
crystal clear the visuals wereand how quickly you could do

(20:34):
work from your phone throughdifferent apps that you could
download for different specificand niche needs.
Blackberry didn't do any ofthat, so they weren't able to
maintain a marketing messagethat really resonated, and they
really ignored the fact thatperceived value matters the most

(20:56):
, and so when we're thinkingabout our services in the market
, we have to do the things thatBlackBerry did not do.
We need to be able to adapt, weneed to be able to effectively
communicate, and we need toalways remember that perception
drives everything.

(21:17):
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(21:37):
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(21:59):
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Visit wwwexcelatconsultingcomfor more information.

(22:24):
Okay, so now let's take all thisinformation and let's talk
about how you can use yourknowledge of what it means to
articulate your value and tofocus on the perceived value and
define some actionablestrategies that you can take in
order to do this.
Get to know your audiencebetter.
I know when you're starting anyproject or initiative, this is

(22:50):
one of the first things thatpeople will suggest that you do.
The reason why that's the caseis because the way that people
perceive their needs changes.
Their actual needs change, andso we can't assume that what we
knew about our clients in thepast is the same as what it is
today.
So we have to research.

(23:12):
We need to find out what'sgoing on in our industry, what's
changing in our industry, whatare our competitors doing, what
does the market look like, whatare the current trends, and then
we can frame our language tospeak to those needs.
So, for example, if you have aclient that's in the tech
industry, I want you to know thelatest trends in that industry.

(23:34):
I want you to have a betterunderstanding of what they are
facing right now, in this moment, and then think about the
opportunities that exist in thatparticular sector.
So ask those questions, the samequestions you asked when you
started your business.
What keeps them up at night?
What are their top threepriorities for the year?
Those things are still veryimportant questions to ask again
at this point when we'rebeginning to map out how we're

(23:55):
going to articulate our value.
Now, the second thing is thatonce you have an understanding
of what their needs are or whatthey aspire to, then you need to
align your service with thatneed, meaning that you need to
make sure that you'reidentifying their top priorities
and then you need to figure outhow your service can address

(24:18):
those top three priorities.
You need to do a matchup.
It needs to be a matchupbetween what they need and what
they aspire to and what youoffer.
So that may mean tailoring yourmessage a bit, really
emphasizing how your servicesdirectly address some of these
concerns.
So if your client isprioritizing cost savings or

(24:41):
thinking about ways to reducetheir expenses, then your
articulation of value could bethat you're going to help them
streamline their operations toreduce their overall annual
costs by 15%.
That is tying what you dodirectly to their needs and the

(25:01):
things that you know that theywant.
That's going to help youcommunicate a higher perceived
value.
And then, once you are able todo that matchup, the next thing
is that you have to communicatethat clearly.
Listen, we don't need to beataround the bush, we don't need
to not be straightforward whenwe're talking about this.

(25:25):
We want to make sure that weare directly communicating
exactly what we do and how we'regoing to do it.
So we want to be specific.
Instead of saying that you'regoing to help a business grow, I
want you to go into detail.
Going back to that tech companyexample, you need to say I'm
going to help a small techcompany increase their revenue
by 20% through targetedmarketing strategies.

(25:46):
That is getting specific.
And you want to highlight thedirect benefits.
What are they going to see orreceive as a benefit of doing so
?
Right, that tie of benefitsinto how you are clearly
communicating what you're goingto do and the goals you're going
to help them reach is going tomake all the difference in the

(26:08):
world.
So the next step is that, inaddition to communicating
clearly and concisely.
I want you to also tie thisspecificity of what you're
saying and what you're sayingthat you're going to do, this
promise that you're making, tothe ability to demonstrate a
clear return on investment.
When you're highlightingbenefits, this is the same as

(26:29):
demonstrating clear return oninvestment.
When you're highlightingbenefits, this is the same as
demonstrating clear return oninvestment.
You're tying the intangibleexpertise that you offer, the
thing that they can't touch, thething that seems like just your
mental notes in the air, thingsthat people can't really grasp
as being a product.
You're going to make them feelmore tangible and you do that by

(26:51):
clearly demonstrating thereturn on investment that they
can expect when they work withyou.
It's not only about being veryclear about what you're going to
do and saying exactly how youhelp, but it's being able to
quantify those results.
Can you put some numbers to it?
Can you give a rate or percentof increase in lead generation?

(27:13):
Can you specify a time period?
Can you say that you're gonnaachieve these things in three
months or six months or 12months?
How are you able to translateskills into results?
So, if they learn a skill, ifyou're focused on developing the
skill, how does your help indeveloping that skill translate
to the bottom line.
Maybe the fact that theyimprove in that skill helps them

(27:35):
reduce their project completiontime by 20%.
You're making that feel moretangible.
Think about how you compare costand benefits.
So, for instance, if the costof your service is outweighed by
the cost of the benefit, thatis the dynamic that you need and

(27:57):
that you want.
For instance, if you are sayingto somebody listen, for every
dollar that you invest in myservices, you're going to see a
$5 return on that investment.
That speaks volumes, becausenow you're showing the value of
what you're bringing to thetable.
Think about how you're helpingthem visualize the outcome.

(28:18):
Is there a way that you canpull together visuals and charts
and infographics and mock-upsso you can show them what the
potential end result can be?
What can it look like?
Can you future pace them andput them into the can be?
What can it look like?
Can you future pace them andput them into the future so that
they can see how they are goingto benefit from what you offer
and visualize it and feel thatand make it more tangible, make

(28:39):
it something that they canactually really wrap their head
around.
All of these things are waysthat you can begin to
demonstrate a clear return oninvestment.
And when you compare, when youpair, rather, this clear return
on investment with the valuethat you can provide, you're
making a stronger case.
And then we're going to putsome icing on the cake.

(29:00):
Then the icing on the cake isyou being able to support this
claim by evidence.
So now you're not going to justrely on the fact that I'm
telling you what I can do, andI'm not going to let you think
that I'm making up numbers.
I'm about to use data andmetrics.
I'm going to use clienttestimonials, I'm going to use
case studies to show you thatI've done this before.

(29:22):
That's the icing on the cake,because now it's not just you
taking my word for it, but I'mgoing to allow you to take other
people's word for it.
I'm going to allow the proof ofwhat I've done to speak for
itself.
And then, when you're able tocommunicate all of this with
confidence, that is going tohelp you convince somebody that

(29:48):
what they are going to enterinto in terms of a value
exchange meaning what they areabout to invest in so that they
can receive an outcome is worthit.
You're letting them know thatinvesting in your consulting
services is not just aboutspending money.
It's about them actuallygaining expertise that is going

(30:11):
to make a difference in theirlives, in their business.
This is how you begin toarticulate value.
This is what we're talkingabout.
This is about you talkingdirectly to the client that you
want to serve and focusing yourmessaging on their needs.
I like to call it being very,very client-centered in your

(30:33):
approach.
And when you can become moreclient-centered in the way that
you approach your messaging andthat you're articulating your
value, you are going to makemore sales.
You're going to convert moreprospects to clients.
You are going to increaselifetime value, because nine
times out of 10, if you're trulyadapting your processes and
keeping up with the market, youare going to maintain those

(30:55):
relationships for an extendedperiod of time.
All of this is what can happenwhen you are articulating your
value effectively.
So I'm hoping that this made alittle bit more sense in terms
of defining and showing how youcan articulate your value in a

(31:16):
way that helps you stand out ina competitive market, because
when you're able to understandhow you're different and
communicate those differences ina way that shows the unique
benefit and what somebody willgain when they invest in your
expertise so that they can yieldthat result or achieve that
goal.
It will make all the differencein the world in your business.

(31:38):
Now, if you're interestedactually in diving deeper into
this, I do have a free 10 dayemail course that's called the
Consultant's Guide to knowingwhat to say and when to say it.
It doesn't cover this aspect ofarticulating value as much, but
it really does dive deeper intothe messaging component of
building out a message that youcan use in various aspects of

(32:03):
your business.
That truly does help you toconvey everything from your
philosophy to your perspective,to the proof behind why you know
what you know and all of thosethings.
It helps you to convey thateffectively and in a way that
helps you to create a morememorable brand.
So I'm going to drop that inthe description so you can

(32:24):
download that If you areinterested.
It really does offer a lot ofpractical tips on communicating
more effectively and winningmore clients and growing your
business.
So I think it's a greatdownload.
So I think you enjoy that and,as always, share this episode
with a friend.
If you know someone that couldbenefit from hearing this, pass
it along and don't forget toleave your five-star review on

(32:45):
Apple Podcasts or rating onSpotify.
I would greatly appreciate it.
It'll help the podcast reachmore and more people.
And until next time, I want youto take care and make sure that
you are articulating your valueand doing it often.
Thank you for tuning in to theBlack Girls Console 2 podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to leave your review on

(33:08):
Apple Podcasts, subscribe andshare it with a friend.
We're on a mission to increasethe success and longevity of
women in consulting, and you canhelp us do just that.
Also, I'd love to hear from you, so let's connect at Dr
Angelina Davis on Instagram orLinkedIn, and don't forget to
visit ExcelAtC, excel atconsultingcom for more

(33:28):
information to support yourconsulting journey.
Until next time, keep breakingglass ceiling, all right, take
care.
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