The Twelfth Pour: Second Chance Christmas

We’re closing the year the only way we know how—curled up with a good story, a glass in hand, and our full selves in the room.

In our final episode of the season, the BGL crew dives into Second Chance Christmas by Jahquel J., a cozy-but-spicy holiday romance that wraps the year in all the warmth and messiness we needed. It’s about love that gets a do-over, forgiveness that costs something, and the soft landings we hope to find after a year that stretched us.

This isn’t just about mistletoe and snowfall. It’s about the kind of emotional unpacking that happens around the holidays—when old wounds bump up against new chances, and when family, love, and memory meet at the dinner table.

As we reflect on the year behind us, we find ourselves asking: What would it mean to give someone a second chance? What would it mean to give one to ourselves?

Whether you’re spending your holidays in community or solitude, this episode is our gift to you. Consider it a warm seat by the fire, a gentle exhale, and a reminder that your story doesn’t end with what broke—it continues with what you choose next.

Come for the book. Stay for the conversation. 💫

We like to know HOW LIT you were for this episode. Send us a text!! Let us know how you feel about this 📖 & 🍸.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
Hey boogie baddies, welcome to Black Girls Lit.

SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Where fine women, fine literature, and fine
libations collide.
Step into the lit life.
Black girls lit starts now.

SPEAKER_03 (00:26):
Black women are so complex.

SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
Hey y'all, it's Natasha.
It's Lex.

SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
It's Stephanie.

SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
And star.
Welcome back to Black Girls LitPodcast.
Happy holidays, everybody.
Hi.
Hello.
We're coming to you today withall of the holiday cheers that
this time of year brings.
And I am so excited for itbecause this December I'm going
to be a G Ma.
Congratulations.

(00:52):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
He's due actually the 22nd.
So I'm really hoping he comesbefore Christmas because I
already have our Christmaspajamas planned.
And um, I would hate for him toalready begin on my nerves.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Throw a wrench in the or he could be born on 1212.
That's my birthday.
Lots of celebration.
I'll share.
Sharing is caring.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
God actually fitted with my timer, so I'm good with
that.
Okay, okay.
All right, friends.
We are coming to you today withall of our Christmas cheer and
cocktails.
Let's go ahead and tell thepeople what we are featuring
this month.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25):
Hello, fookish baddies.
We hope you're well.
Today we are going to be talkingabout everything vodka, but
we're putting a twist on what wenormally do.
So, those of y'all that werehere with us day one, y'all know
we usually do one uh featuredliquor type and then we try
different brands of said liquor.

(01:47):
Um, but now we're gonna trysomething a little different,
ladies.
So we are featuring one vodkathis episode, but then we have
it in various different formsand cocktails.
Today we are doing Belverevodka.
So to tell you a little bitabout Belvivir vodka, it is a

(02:08):
super premium, super premium,because we're not on the bottom
shelf, we don't do bottom shelfliquors here.
Um, super premium Polish vodka.
So it is known for being ahundred percent Polish rye
grain, and it is quadrupledistilled.
That's a lot of destillation.
I'm not sure if that's a word,but it is today and in this

(02:31):
episode.
So it's quadruple distilled andit is additive free, which means
she is organic, it's almost likea health food.

SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
It's healthy.
That's what we're gonna make.

SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
Like a super green, maybe.
I mean, hey, we'll see.
It is outside of being organic,because we're all about being
healthy on this podcast.
It also has a creamy feeling inyour mouth.
Um, you should feel it.
We'll see.
Let's see if we get that.
So everyone, don't don't throwyour shot back.

(03:07):
Just we're gonna taste it.
We'll taste it and do it.

SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
We're gonna be we're gonna be ladies.
Ladies.

SPEAKER_04 (03:12):
Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Tasha likes it.
Now it's sweet.
I like it.

SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
It's like, yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
I'm not really getting like this.

SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
I mean that afterburn that vodka sometimes
gets used.
It's definitely I don't thinkthe Belvedere from the 90s.
I don't, I don't know.
Well, you know, this one'sorganic.
Yeah, you know, this one'sorganic.
Now that it's gone super foodand off, I feel like it tastes a
little different.
I don't know, you know, butyeah, it it's it's smooth.
I'm not mad at it.

SPEAKER_04 (03:42):
So our first pairing that we're gonna do right out of
the gate is with a Polish food.
Well, actually, all of ourlittle treats today are Polish
inspired foods and treats anddishes.
So as we taste our Belavirvodka, we're going to try some
pierogis, which is a Polishtreat.

(04:05):
Let's try it out.
Like a little meat.
Yeah.
So the pierogis, it's not sweet.
It's supposed to have meat andpotatoes and this little pot
pocket type thing.
If not, it's supposed to pair,but it also pairs with some of
our sweet treats.
But we'll do this first.
And as we're snacking, Steph, doyou want to tell us about the

(04:26):
book and the author?

SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
Yes, let me tell y'all about Jekel J, Second
Chance Christmas.
It's a heartfelt holiday romanceabout reunions and healing.
The story follows Faith Stone,who returns to her small
hometown of Sagebort after 15years as a divorced single
mother.
Known for being the daughter ofthe town drunk, Faith bore the

(04:51):
weight of gossip and grief inher youth until grief and
heartbreak on prom night drove awedge between her and Rome
Atkins, her high school love.
Now their paths cross again amidthe festive season, reawakening
emotions they both thoughtthey'd long buried.
Jacquel J has been writing sincespring of 2014 and has an

(05:13):
impressive catalog of titlesunder her belt.
She's best known for her Delgadofamily series, Staten Island
Love Letter, and Confessions ofa Hustler's Housekeeper.
A trailblazer in her own night,Jaquel made history by reaching
number one in the world on theKindle store charts.
She is married to her highschool sweetheart and proudly

(05:36):
embraces her role as sister momto her younger siblings.

SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Okay, sister mom.
Okay, the Babel Dair with thelittle meat pie, little
potatoes.
How do you like it?
I see.
They do a little something in inPoland.
It's kind of good because Inever had a pierogi before.
And I'm not gonna lie, thisthing.
I did have to, you know, makethese by the directions on on a

(06:02):
box, you know, I was trying todo a little something.
I may not have these may not belike the best pierogies in the
world, but I'm still gonna belike, I'm I'm here for the
parents.
If I went somewhere and somebodyoffered me something, I can I
can get down with it.
You know what you're talkingabout.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (06:15):
But they are from a Polish bakery, so it's not like
you went to public and decidedlike they're authentic in their
own.
Yeah, they are absolutely.
And it's almost like the likeum, you know how different
cultures have like theirempanadas, or you know what I
mean?
Like it's almost like thePolish, I would call it.
That's what it's similar to.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:35):
Okay, y'all.
It is time for the rating.
What do we feel about this book?
Y'all know we coming in atcheers, if we loved it, sip,
babysit, or send it back.
Okay, out the gate.
I'm gonna tell y'all right now.
This I'm gonna shock y'all.
I'm seriously coming in with ababysit.

(06:56):
Like it's so untasha-like.
Y'all know I be out here lovingeverything.
Oh my god.
I'm we're gonna have to get intoit.
I my God, today.
It was really a babysit for me.
Really?
It really was.
I'm gonna say, it's it's a goodone.
It only took 10 books that Ineeded.
It it was just a little toocutesy for me.

(07:17):
It was it was not for me.
I could have used a little morerealness to me.
What did y'all think?

SPEAKER_04 (07:23):
Not that I shot the world thinking about my rating.
Because I was full-on gonna giveit a um a sip.
Only because was it deep in anyway, like you said?
Absolutely not.
But it was like a tender littlelittle holiday book.
Like it definitely reminded meof just like your Hallmark

(07:46):
movie.
Nothing like too, too specialabout it, but it wasn't like
terrible.
Like, I enjoyed reading it.
I don't know if I would add itto my personal collection, but
like I think it was a cute book.
So for what it is, I would giveit a sip.
I don't know if it wasnecessarily supposed to be deep
or have any like life lessons.

SPEAKER_01 (08:06):
Well, I wish we could do a 2.5.

SPEAKER_04 (08:10):
Yeah, maybe I would have done that.

SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Steffi in between babysit and sip, Tasha used a
word about it a couple weeksago, talking about it was a
little too perfect.
It was just, it was a little toocake cutter.
I get that, but it was a lovestory, which I can appreciate.
And you come back full circle.
You come back full circle, butit was very quickly.
So that's why I have I give itmore of the two point, you know,

(08:33):
because it was like, doesn'treally happen that way.
I wish it does for everybody,but you know, it was nice to
read.
So now here comes the shocker.

SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
First, I do want to say that the two people in the
room that are the most happilymarried individuals that I know
in my life, not liking this bookis wild to me.
But I'm gonna give it a cheers.
Okay.
I mean the spectrum's over here.
So here's the thing we can be athug all the time.

(09:05):
And if there's ever a time to besoft in life, it's the holidays.
And for that reason, that is thereason that I gave it a cheers.
It is like the perfect,literally the perfect feel-good
holiday story.
Like, so for this time of yearand for what it is, like, oh,
okay, I don't have to be a thugall year.

(09:25):
I can be soft.

SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
We can skim by the for Jesus' birthday month.
I can do only Christmas mentionis they went and bought a
Christmas tree.
Like, we can't even skim bythat.
It really wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
The whole title of the book is.
It was leading up to Christmas.
Christmas.
So it was the whole Christmas,the whole holiday season, the
whole coming thing.
The most beautiful, feel good.
I was like, oh, so many timesreading the book.
I was like, it's cute.
Oh, that's so sweet.
Very, yes, unrealistic and reallife, but we don't have to be

(09:57):
biased and jaded all the time.
So it was a it was it wasHallmark in a book.
Absolutely, 100%.
Okay.
And again, for what it wassupposed to be and what it is,
it delivered for sure.
So that's why I gave it a shit.

SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
You know why?
Let me tell you what's missingfrom the Hallmark part.
Go ahead.
Even in Hallmark, there's like aclimax.
They have like the little hiccupin the relationship, like a
little, oh, a littlemisunderstanding.
There was a whole yeah, wedidn't know.
It was at the very beginning.
They the whole broke up andbecause her mama was a town
drunk.
Okay, even when they came, she'slike, Oh, I'm back in town.
He was like, Oh, I see you, Ilove you.

(10:35):
Like literally the next day.
The next day.
They never had, there was neverany, I mean, there was there was
no build-up, no climax, like notone bump in the road when they
got back together.
Well, you know, but when youknow, you know.
The ex-husband said all theright stuff.

SPEAKER_03 (10:49):
But did he?
Because we should we should talkabout that, because that
ex-husband was a fool.
And so we know I don't think itwas a you're right.
Let's let's talk about it.
Let's get into it.
Please, let's get into it.
You're not swaying me.
I'm not changing my I'm notchanging.
We know you stay with yourchair, Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
We want you to stay with your chairs.
Because today is a day that it'sa different spectrum on both
sides.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
All right, but no, it's yeah, we'll get into it.
All right, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
So the service, what is what did you bring to share
with us today, Les?

SPEAKER_04 (11:23):
Okay.
So we're going to try our firstcocktail of the episode.
It is called Who's That Girl?
Who's That Girl?
But Christmas edition.
So it is a Christmas Cosmo.

(11:43):
So this is a holiday twist on aclassic drink made with vodka,
our Bellevere, as we've beentalking about, unsweetened
cranberry juice, lime, orangeliqueur, and the star of this
recipe is that we made ahomemade rosemary simple syrup.
How cute.
All right, ladies.
So cheers, ladies.

(12:04):
Cheers.
Oh, that's tasty.
Whew.

SPEAKER_02 (12:10):
I do like.
I do like that.
It's very much a good cosmo.

SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
I love that.
And that unsweetened cranberryjuice is yeah.
So it's not super sweet.
Right.
There you go.

SPEAKER_04 (12:21):
Well, as we're sipping, let's get into our
first question.
Faith made a big deal aboutmeeting her ex-husband's new
girlfriend prior to their girlsmeeting her.
What is your feeling on this?
So before we get into it, justto give our listeners a little
bit of background, Faith is arecent divorcee.

(12:41):
I think she was divorced forabout a year in the book.
And so her and her husband hadtwo twin girls, and I believe
they are eight.
Eight years old.
So I think really that's all youneed to know as far as this
question.
Oh that's it.
So let's get into it.
What say y'all?

SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
I agree.
So for me, being married andhaving kids, I think when the
kids are younger, it justdepends on the atmosphere.
Them being eight years old andaware of everything, I feel like
you have to be careful on howquickly you introduce somebody
to your kids at that age.
When you're older, it could be alittle bit different.

(13:21):
Of course, when they're babiesor toddlers, once again, it
could be different.
Them being eight, I'm morefocused on them being eight.
I would take my time onintroducing them because all
they've known their entire liveswas their father and their
mother.
And for them to not work out,and then the next thing you
know, your father's justbringing somebody home so
quickly after the divorce.

(13:43):
It could be confusing, it couldbe various things to the kids,
but for me, it's just more ofthe age, what how how it would
affect that your child, what theenvironment is.
I feel like it's more questionsthan answers at the time,
especially when, you know, howwas the divorce?
Was it a good?
Was it bad?
Was there infidelity?

(14:03):
Was it just us growing apart,etc., etc.?
So, overview, I would take thetime and wait before introducing
them.
If you feel like it's gonna bemore of a commitment, depending
on the longevity of therelationship and how far it
goes.

SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
But do you need to meet the person first?

SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Like that's if you feel like you're going to bring
them into the kid's lifeeventually, not yeah, like after
six, several after severalmonths, yeah, but not if you're
dating them and you don't seethere's potential, but if
there's potential of you makinga lifelong commitment with them,
moving in, any of that, thenyes, I feel like, hey, I'm
seeing someone and they have thepotential of there's longevity

(14:42):
in there, and I would want themto meet the kids soon.
Is it gonna be like, oh, youcan't date them, I don't like
them?
No, that's who you love.
I can't control that, buthopefully they're a decent
person around our kids.

SPEAKER_03 (14:53):
Star looks like she has a feeling on this.
Like her face.
Go ahead though.
No, I I want it, I want to hearyour opinion.
Because you guys are you guysare married, so I want to hear
your opinion.
But I yeah, I definitely have atake.

SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
But I did not feel like me as the ex-wife, do I
need to meet your girlfriendbefore you talk about bringing
her around the kids?
No, I don't, because thecommitment is between and the
agreement is between me and you.
So I'm gonna trust, if I'msending my girls to your house
or my kids to your house, they,I mean, we have a custody

(15:26):
agreement, they spend whatevertime with you.
I'm gonna trust that you takecare of them in the very best
way, the same way they do at myhouse.
So you don't be regulating whoelse over here.
You need to have trust in me.
And I'm gonna trust that if youbring in somebody around that
it's somebody you know and youare using good judgment the same
way I trust that you take careof them in every instance,

(15:47):
whether it's a new person, aplace, wherever that you're
taking, I believe the same wayyou're putting a seatbelt on
them every time they get in thecar, in the same way you're not
gonna bring somebody around themlike that's just random.
Now, if my ex was like just somerant, like a reckless person and
yeah, he got different chicksrunning in and out, I'd be like,
bruh, like they don't need tomeet everybody, you know, like
give it classy for real.

(16:08):
But no, I I don't think that youowe that to me to be like, oh,
well, you need to, I need tomeet her before she meets my
kids.
Like, let me start yourbusiness.
Because for real, don't betrying to regulate what I got
going on over here.
That's my stance on it.

SPEAKER_03 (16:23):
I'm so glad she said that.
Because, oh, I didn't know if wewas gonna, if we was gonna
reconnect during this episode.
But I completely agree.
I think when people take thatstance, it's more about it's
about two things.
I think it's about control, andI also think it's about not
admitting that you're really notover that person or that

(16:44):
relationship.
So you try to put that on, oh,the kids, oh the kids, oh the
kids.
Absolutely not.
And to Tasha's point, if youquestion my judgment to the
point where you don't think thatI can make the appropriate
choices and decisions about whocomes around and is around our

(17:05):
children, you should havequestioned that before we laid
down and had these children.
You see what I'm saying?
Like, the time to startquestioning whether or not a
person is a good parent is notafter they've been a parent for
eight years.
You see what I'm saying?
Like, but I think a lot oftimes, again, it gets turned
into, oh, well, we didn't workout and we're not together.

(17:25):
And now all of a sudden, you arepotentially this completely
different person that doesn'thave the wherewithal to make the
appropriate judgment calls aboutwho comes around our children.
But if we were still together,it would be okay.
Like you would be okay, becauseI married you, we had kids, we
were supposed to have a lifetogether.
Now that that pretty pictureisn't gonna be the case, now I

(17:49):
need to police who you're withfrom here on out under the guise
of who you're bringing around mykids.

SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
Well, I don't think it's necessarily policing, it's
just a matter of, hey, Steph,I'm with this person now, and we
just have a dialogue, like I'mgonna introduce them.
It could be a quick, I'mdropping the kids off and you
meet them.
It's not necessarily let's goout to dinner, let's have a
kumbaya.
And I agree with you, if you'regonna lay with somebody and have
kids with them, you found somereasoning to make a life with

(18:19):
them.
And hopefully they have thatsame judgment with the person
afterwards if it doesn't workout between the two of you.
But a five, 10 minuteconversation of meeting
somebody, I don't think it's a Idon't think it's a problem
because you're exactly right.
I have to be over you.
I don't want to police you.
I don't, I would hope thatwhoever you're bringing is
somebody that we can, you know,have a conversation with.
Because even with the ex-husbandbringing having a girlfriend,

(18:42):
there are things that thegirlfriend was doing, like, and
she's just like, oh, you justlisten to whatever she says.
Well, that's the mother of mychildren, and I trust her
judgment.
The reason why we got divorcedwas not because of her being a
bad mother.

SPEAKER_03 (18:54):
Right, but that's for him to manage in his new
relationship.
That doesn't have anything todo, that didn't have anything to
do with faith.
Like, that's not faith, it's notfor faith to manage, or it's not
for faith to screen this newwoman, or it's not, and not for
nothing.
If that had been her stance,like in an ideal situation, and
this again is my point, in anideal situation where everyone

(19:17):
is being mature and we have madea mature decision that you know
what, not that I didn't love youonce upon a time, not that we
didn't love each other once upona time, right?
Like whatever we had is nolonger.
So now we're gonna be adults andwe're gonna be mature and we're
gonna go our own separate waysand find the love that's out
there for us.
But in the meantime, we do havethese wonderful children that we

(19:40):
created, right?
So let's agree to keep the linesof communication open.
And I think when a relationshipends maturely and everyone is
over it and okay with movingforward, this is the
conversation that you have.
Hey, I'm dating somebody, it'snot this whole secret thing, but
that wasn't the case.

(20:00):
And throughout the book, and thereason that I'm taking this
stance is because throughout thebook, Faith continuously
referenced, oh, he didn't dothat with me.
He wasn't that way for me.
So there's a little bit of whatI got from her, a little bit of
jealousy in, oh, now he's thistype of man for another woman,
but he wasn't this type of manfor me.

(20:22):
That's where I get a little bitof resentment and some
bitterness and still trying tohold on in control and not
necessarily being over therelationship and allowing it to
move forward.
So let me try to interjectmyself because the audacity of
you to be over thisrelationship, and now you want

(20:45):
to be this all effort and all ingreat guy for the next woman.
That's what she was on.
And it it wasn't about the kids,it wasn't about the kids because
in hindsight, she and when I'msure we'll get into it, she
turned around and did the sameDFA.
I was so upset, and I was soupset when she did that.
I was like, come on now, likeyou play in.
Sorry.
So that's that's my take.

(21:07):
What you think, Lex?

SPEAKER_04 (21:09):
So I don't have children, so I don't really know
what it's like to be thatprotective over something
outside of my fur children.
Uh but knowing the type ofperson I am and just like how
big I am on safety and likewho's around the people that I
love, I think it would have beenlike a common courtesy to at

(21:32):
least let me know.
Like, especially because in themanner that she found out, it
was like her daughters tellingher, like, oh, we just spent all
this time with this woman.
And then she's like, hey, who isthis woman?
Like, was she nice?
Like, what's going on?
And so, like, I do feel likewhen, especially when they're
young girls, and you're justit's something new, and it's

(21:55):
somebody new, especially not it.
They didn't really go into likehow the girls took the divorce
or anything like that.
And maybe that's like an elementof depth this book was missing.
But I do think just like forcourtesy to just be like, hey,
I'm getting the girls thisweekend, just so you know I am
dating this woman and I'm goingto, you know, bring her around
the girls to meet.

(22:15):
And it's not necessarily to likescope out that woman or to
figure out if she's like theright woman, but just like
letting you know who's going tobe around our children, I think
is a common courtesy.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
To say that you're dating somebody, yes, give me
that courtesy like, hey, thegirlfriends, I'm I have somebody
who I'm seeing, and she's gonnabe around this weekend with the
girls.
Okay, that's fine.
Give me a heads up on that.
But do I need to meet her?
Like, do I need to sit down withher?
And no, I don't need to do allthat.

SPEAKER_04 (22:46):
Like, I don't think that I don't really think any
conversation happened.

SPEAKER_03 (22:50):
Like, you know who you gotta come see and deal
with.

SPEAKER_04 (22:52):
Right.
Like, I don't think anyconversation is owed until like
like we're talking aboutmarriage, and because now we're
talking about, okay, we'reessentially not that she will
ever be like their mom, but shewill be like a sort of mom
figure to the kids.
And so at that point, I do feellike a conversation of like

(23:12):
boundaries and what does thislook like, like maybe should
happen if we are progressed thatfar into the relationship, just
so like nobody's toes are beingstepped on.
Cause I know in dating someonewho had kids, it gets a little
hairy, um, depending on who theex is and how they are.

(23:33):
Um, so I think like if we'retalking about a commitment, then
yeah, maybe some sort ofboundaries conversation should
be had about like how we want toparent these children or what
your role is as like their step,whatever.
I do feel like a conversationneeds to be had there, but I
don't think it was necessarilyto that point yet in this book.

(23:54):
But as far as to star's commentabout like faith and how she was
essentially possibly bittertowards like this new
relationship, I didn't see itthat way.
Because I think they made itvery clear that like she was the
one that asked for a divorce,and she was the one that kind of
wanted to be done with this,even though like the husband was

(24:17):
obviously very absent and notlike doing really much of
anything.
So she was kind of the one thatsaid, okay, enough is enough
because me and your daughtersdeserve better.
I think where Faith was startingto feel some type of way was
that her husband, and I don'tremember the husband's name, but
her ex-husband was like makingtime for this woman, but like he

(24:39):
could not make time for hisdaughters, like he was always
flaking on rehearsals orpractices or like picking them
up.
But then, like all of a sudden,you have all this time for this
new relationship, but I can'teven get you to come to your
daughter's recital.
And so I think that's where shewas coming from with it.

(24:59):
Not necessarily like you're agood man to her and you're a
shit man to me.
I think it was more like you'represent for her, but you're not
present for your daughters, andI have a problem with that.
But that's just how I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
It was a balance, like there were things that she
saw to Star's point that oh, youdo this for her, but but I've
always wanted it.
But she got a divorce becauseshe knew she her worth was more
than that.
But it's still a little, yeah,I'm gonna be a little resentful,
a little bitter, because justlike I tried for the longest
with you to get that and younever gave it to me, and now
you're giving it to somebodyelse.

(25:33):
But it's okay.
My thing is like it's okaybecause you will receive it.
Like people only do what theywant to do when they want to do
it.
And he didn't want to do it.
No matter and I mean, he talksabout the love of his girls and
they they have a great mom, andyou're trying to provide for
them, and I get that.
But when they get older, whenthey get older, but when they
get older, they're all they'regonna remember is my dad was
never around.

(25:53):
I hear you, dude, but yourpresence is more wanted than the
finances is a great thing.
It is.
I don't want to take away fromthat because you want to provide
a beautiful home and a niceneighborhood, that's you know,
the school, all of the goodthings.
But I don't think it was more Ithink there was some resentment,
some resentment towards, oh, youcould do it for somebody else,

(26:15):
but that's how it always is inthe beginning of a relationship.
But we could clearly see it wentdownhill when they went on
vacation and he was working andshe's trying to get time with
him.
You taking off your clothes andgetting naked is only gonna last
so much it's only so many times.
Right.
Because even Faith tried it andit stopped working.

SPEAKER_03 (26:31):
Let me ask you guys a another quick question, like
just to add an additional layeronto this question, because
there may be a differentperspective.
So you all are married, right,and you have children versus me.
Like I've never been married andI have a child.
So do you think that that playsa difference?
Do you think that there's do youthink that there's more of an

(26:54):
expectation on what's nextbecause you've been married?
Because I I don't want to soundcliche, but I I wish somebody
would.
Like, if it's over, it's over.
Yes, we have this childtogether.
And I'm going to be the I'mgonna be the best parent that I

(27:18):
can be for this child, and I'mgonna hope and pray that you're
gonna be the best parent forthis child.
Otherwise, we'll we'll then havea conversation.
Like then there will be a needto have a conversation, right?
But do you think that there isthis expectation of the
conversation that's old or thecourtesy?
I think someone said courtesy.

(27:40):
Like, do you think that thatexpectation of the courtesy
comes from, but we were married,but we made this commitment not
only, not only do we have thesechild or these children, but at
one time we made a commitment toeach other.
And even though that commitmentis over, I still have an
expectation of you know, thisthis courtesy because I I don't

(28:03):
know, and I'm just beingtransparent, I don't know where
the expectation of the courtesycomes from.

SPEAKER_02 (28:09):
For me, I don't know that I tie it to my marriage.
So my marriage is one part, butour commitment as parents is I
can separate these two differentthings.
So, I mean, again, I like onlyspeak from my own experience,
but I feel like whether we weremarried or not, I'm looking at
you as a father, that's it, noteven like as my husband, as a

(28:31):
father, you and I should both bemoving in the best interests of
our children.
So even when we talk aboutsometimes, so if I talk about
Alvin having like a new wife andus sitting out, or how we're
gonna co-parent, I might be ofthe mindset, because again, I
mean, we've been together a verylong time.
Like, girl, I I don't need tosit down with you.
Me and him as parents.
Now, whatever y'all figure out,that's your business.

(28:52):
But he and I can sit down, wecan figure out how we're gonna
co-parent.
Do I feel like, do I see myselfever being the type of person
who was gonna sit down andkumbaya with a new wife, and we
we're gonna all figure it outtogether.
That probably is not in myspirit.
Only because that part does tieback to at this point, I said
I've been with Alvin since I wasa baby.
Even if, Lord forbid, somethinghappened and we weren't

(29:14):
together, I'm gonna always havesome feelings tied to him.
There's never gonna be a, ooh, Idon't feel some type of way.
So I couldn't imagine me just,oh yeah, I'm I'm good with with
new wife.
Boy bye.
I don't care.
We've we've been the boy for howmany years I said.
So I'm never, you and I, we canbe parents.
I'm never gonna be, don't, sheain't gotta go come to the
co-parent meeting.

(29:34):
Like, why is she here?
Like, I no, sir.
Because I am gonna always have alittle bit of like, oh, this,
oh, this the new one.
Like, I that might be petty,Tasha.

SPEAKER_03 (29:42):
And I think, and and so I think that's the place
where that's the place where I'mcoming from.
Cause like I said, never beenmarried.
I have one child and the love ofmy life, like the most important
person in my life.
Like, I love that kid.
But I can remember having aconversation and Not even in a
mean-spirited or negative typeof way, but someone attempting

(30:05):
to interject into aconversation.
And I immediately was like, Idon't even understand why you're
speaking to me.
I'm not about to entertain aconversation with a third party
about my child that you see whatI'm saying?
Like with another person.
So that's if I feel that way onmy side of it, then my

(30:26):
expectation is that the otherperson has the right to feel the
same.
So that's kind of the connectionthat I'm trying to make.
Like for me, it's you and I canhave a conversation.
Me and the father, like, youknow what it is.
You know who I am, I know whoyou are.
Anybody else that you choose todeal with and have this one
around, just make sure that theyact accordingly.

(30:48):
Otherwise, there may be aproblem.
You see what I'm saying?
And it may be an odd personalitything where we just have to do
it.

SPEAKER_04 (30:54):
But even if the kids are young, because also y'all,
y'all's kids are older.
Now, but he wasn't always.

SPEAKER_03 (31:00):
He's 20, he's 21 now, but we haven't been
together since he was three.
So there was, you know, he wasyounger than eight.

SPEAKER_04 (31:07):
Any conversation, like if they were like little as
far as boundary.
So yeah, like as far as youdon't think any conversation
needed to happen.
Or you weren't welcoming, or notwelcoming, but you didn't think
any conversation needed tohappen.
What were we gonna talk about?
Like, right.
Why are you talking about it?

SPEAKER_03 (31:25):
Like, what were we gonna talk about?
Like, if we're not together,because here's the thing he's
three.
We're not together.
We're not together, it's notgonna work out, it, you know, no
love loss, like, right?
Still love you, all that.
Like, we have this child, sothere was something.
You know what I mean?
There was never that it wasn'tanything, but if we're not gonna

(31:46):
be together, what is theexpectation that you're never
gonna be with anybody else?
Like, automatically, obviously,right, there's going to be some
other person or some otherpeople.
We're supposed to link up andhave a conversation, and I'm
supposed to meet and approve, oryou're supposed to meet and
approve every time you areinterested in somebody.
That's crazy.
Not every time.

SPEAKER_04 (32:05):
I'm talking about, I guess this is the one and one.

SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
Now that maybe, but maybe not, but maybe not,
because Chris Chris's dad ismarried.

SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
Well, that's the thing, it's the initial.
I think the here's the thingit's like it's not just any
little girl.
It's one year of divorce.
One year of divorce, all they'veknown is mom and dad.
And now there is already alittle tumultuous of them
changing things.
Like daddy's not here, and nowyou're throwing a third party.
I think it is a courtesy.
Yes, is it different when you'remarried or versus that you have

(32:38):
a boyfriend or girlfriend thatyou broke up with, but you have
a child with them?
Depends.
Did y'all live together?
Did you not?
You see, I get all the technicalstuff.
I'd be having too manyquestions.
So if you guys were nevertogether in a household, if
y'all never co-parented in ahouse together, then yes, it
would be a different kind ofconversation.
But if y'all stayed together,one moved out, we're done.

(32:59):
We're only here for Chris.
That part of it, I understand.
Common courtesy, I would belike, okay, we're not moving
together.
But if we're going to like he'syounger, it could be a
conversation between the two ofyou guys, like, not necessarily
right away, but we are gonnamove on.
I'm gonna be dating.
And I just ask that if you don'tfeel like it's serious, maybe we

(33:21):
shouldn't introduce Chris tothat person right away.
It's just more of that, more ofan overview.

SPEAKER_03 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean, I and I hear it, and I'm open to the
conversation, the perspective.
And that's why, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, that's why I added theextra piece of the conversation.
I hear it.
I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
However, Thomas.
All right, but Step, Step, Ihave finished my first drink, so
I feel it.
It must be time to move on forthe next question.

SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Okay, okay, okay.
And no, Steph is clearlybabysitting her first drink.
And the shawl, sorry.
Jesus, okay.
Okay, but we can repeat sure.

SPEAKER_02 (33:56):
Can I just say like the um, I don't know if you guys
have tried it, but I did trylike that little Cosmo little
sour taste with the cheesecake,the little Polish cheesecake.
The sweet and sour was it wastogether.

SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
Oh, dang.
Too bad.
Because I was I was saving thisfor the yeah, I was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:11):
Oh no, I I sample all of them with all the things.
We know you know, new newformat.
We don't know what we're doing,but let me say I I ate all my
stuff.
My bad.

SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
So we're gonna get into the second cocktail.
Okay.
It's called Let It Go.
How fitting?
Let it go.
Let it go.
A gingerbread martini.
So this is a straightforwarddessert-style martini that
highlights the creamy spiceflavor of gingerbread made with
the Belmadere vodka, gingerbreadcream liqueur, and Kahlua.

(34:44):
Let's give it a try, ladies.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Oh, it's it's definitely givingholiday espresso.
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (34:50):
It tastes like uh espresso martini.
It does just like a little extraginger look cake.
Yeah, it's a little spicy.
Yeah, there's a little spice.

SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
A little spice.
Yeah, it's good.
I like it.
It's a dessert.
That gingerbread after iseverything.

SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
It's no, yeah, I I could drink that.

SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
And then there's the cheesecake.
The what is it?
The Polish cake.

SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
It's the Polish cheesecake.
I'm just saying, it it's allit's all about the Poland.
You know.
No, it's going together.

SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
Go ahead.
You like it?
The pairing is.
I might be busy back.
I might be taking another tripback to the Polish bakery.
Are you though?
Um, when I come over, I want tosee that you have it at your
cheese.

SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
It's just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 (35:29):
No, it's just like it's not, it's like a bread, a
breaded cheesecake.
I don't know.
I like it.
It's not your typicalcheesecake, but I like it.
It is.
I might actually finish this offmy face.

SPEAKER_02 (35:39):
Faith is petty as yes.
But are you the.
She said I better see it.

SPEAKER_03 (35:42):
So the next time I come over, I want to see Polish
pastries and shit on thecounter.
Because stop playing with me.
You're not gonna play on myface, is what you're saying.
Especially for the holiday.

SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
Right.
When that baby comes.
When that baby comes.

SPEAKER_02 (35:54):
My family is only gonna eat Polish cheesecake.
Like, he's not gonna knownothing else.

SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
Say less.

SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
All right, let's discuss.
In the audible version, the bookis introduced with a quote from
Oprah Winfrey.
Forgiveness is giving up thehope that the past could have
been any different.
What is your view offorgiveness?

SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
First of all, forgiveness is very hard for me.
Because people always say, Oh,well, you know, forgive, but
don't forget.
And I'm just like, well, if I'mconstantly ri thinking about how
you have wrongest me, have Ireally forgiven?
It's a struggle.
And I do feel like forgiveness,there's levels to it.
So I know Oprah was like, hey,you gotta you gotta like let it

(36:37):
go.
Like giving up the idea thatthings could have been
different.
I do remember when she saidthat, and I was like, okay,
well, let me think about it.
Let me think about it.
And I was like, no, becausethere's just some things I just
can't forget, and I just don'tknow how.
And people they always say, oh,well, you forgive for yourself,
not for the people.
And this and I if I stillremember how you did me wrong,

(36:58):
how am I letting go and movingon?
So I really I struggle withforgiveness, maybe.
I guess it depends on how youhave them in your life.

SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
Like, are they still in your life?

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Or do I want them to be?
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Because if they're still in your life, I think it
that's where the difficulty runsinto your owl, maybe over time
you can forget because you'realways still surrounded by them.
They're in your they're in yourenvironment, maybe family
functions, weekly,semi-annually.
Like it just depends on howoften you see them.
I agree with you.

(37:28):
Petty Steph, Steph can hold agrudge.
Tate, tate, tate.
And I've learned that I reallydo have to let go.
Like, I've gone two weekswithout talking to my kids.
I said it, two weeks withouttalking to my kids.
And um that's why their daddy isaround because they need another
parent.
So it is hard.

(37:49):
It is hard.
So my question to you is ifyou're around them over time, I
don't want to say all the time,but you see them often enough.
Don't you think over time maybethey've shown you a different
side of them where you canforget it, like you can forgive?

SPEAKER_02 (38:04):
Okay, so I'm not gonna say there's not something
I've have not forgiven.
So my longest relationship willclearly be with Alvin.
So is there stuff I can think ofthat I have had to forgive him
for?
Yes.
Did I bring it back up atopportune times?
Yes.
And I realized, okay, so now Ihave because in my more
advanced, you know, and I'm moreI'm more mature.

(38:26):
There we go.
I'm watching I realize I knowthat I cannot because I hate, I
said I forgave you, and so Ican't bring it up.
But the way I have to like pullit back, like Tasha, don't say
it, don't bring, don't bring itup.
So it's still there.
So I'm like, I forgave you, butmy memory is long, and I be
like, well, you just did thisnew thing, but for real, for

(38:48):
real, it reminds me of when youdid this old thing.
So in my spirit, I want to bringit up.
So is that forgiveness?
I mean, because I told him Iforgave him.
We still here.
We damn near 30 years later, westill here.

SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
I feel like you forgave him, but it's I did
forgive him also.

SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
Sometimes you have a visceral reaction to things, and
that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 (39:06):
Okay, so maybe I maybe I do know how to forgive
in in my own way, and that inthe because I think there's a
difference between likeremembering something and still
harboring anger towards it.
And I think that's whereforgiveness comes in.
Because it's exhausting beingangry at somebody or something.
And so I feel like once you getto a point where like you're
like, yeah, that sucks that youdid that, but you're not like

(39:30):
actively angry over it.
Like every time you think of it,you want to wring this man's
neck, or you're seeing red.
I think that's forgivenessbecause I could have lit your
ass up, but I'm we're forgiving,we're letting it go.
So, like, yeah, I'm gonnaremember that like this happened
because it's a part of ourstory, but I'm not harboring

(39:52):
anger over it anymore.
So that's to forgive, but don'tforget how that's what it looks
like to me.
Okay, but I feel like inrelation to this book, Faith was
harboring anger specificallytowards her mother.
Now, do I think that issomething hard?
I don't think that's somethingyou ever forget or let go of.

SPEAKER_05 (40:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:16):
Because she killed somebody.
That's a lot, and it affectedher relationships for the rest
of her life.
That's like a a core thing ofwhat made Faith who she is
because this thing happened.
But I do think like she did havea hard time getting to the point
where she like wasn't angry ather mother anymore.

(40:36):
Honestly, I don't even think sheever got to a point where she
wasn't angry by the end of thebook.

SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
No, she didn't.
Which by the book sort of leftus hanging because this quote
came from the book and nobodyforgave anybody in the book for
anything.

SPEAKER_04 (40:48):
Well, Rome forgave her.

SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
They had a conversation about that.
Yeah, they did, and she forgavehim.
I remember, girl, I ain't seenyou in 35 years.
I know he took accountability.

SPEAKER_04 (40:58):
He took accountability, and I think
that's the big thing.
I don't remember none of that.
No, he definitely tookaccountability for his actions
and how he said he was wrong forhow he treated her, how he left
her after that night.
And I think that's a big part offorgiveness too.
Like, people have to takeaccountability for what they do.
Because they was in love.

(41:20):
This was like third, this islike after they had slept.
I think it's after they hadslept together.
That was the first day.
They didn't sleep together onthe first day.

SPEAKER_03 (41:28):
They're rekindling.
The relationship rekindling didhappen very, very fast.
Yeah, I will say that.
But it's a short book.
So, like, like let's keep it abook.
They let's keep it a book.
They didn't have a whole bunchof time to be good.
It wasn't no business, it wasn'tno deals, one.
And he definitely took accountof it.
It was when Christmas season.
She went to her dad's house acouple weeks before Christmas,

(41:51):
and by Christmas, afterChristmas, they was getting
married.
So it was a and then other stuffhappened in two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
You found that out in two weeks, though.
It was a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 (41:59):
A lot a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
How do you know that in two weeks?

SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
When the closet gets open, when the closet door gets
open, ain't no all the skeletonscoming out right now.
Like you can't open the closetand be like, oh, wait, hold on.
I just want two skeletons outthe closet, and then I'm gonna
come back.
Like the closet got open,everything was out there.
So yeah, one day.
You could have actuallydiscovered all the things in one
day.
So we took accountability everyday, all in in one.

SPEAKER_04 (42:26):
I think the accountability piece is super
big because that's something shenever got from her mom, which is
why she held so much resent.
Like, there's power in sayingI'm sorry, and I accountability
everything I will stuff in thisway.

SPEAKER_01 (42:38):
But Faith never forgave herself, is my issue.
Because even 10 years later,everything was still on you.
Like, I'm sorry that becauseshe's still blaming her mom,
she's still carrying her mom'serrors, her mom's bones, her
mom's everything.

SPEAKER_04 (42:54):
Because you have to take care of her.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Right.
And the thing is, you stillhaven't let it go.
She still hasn't forgave her.
And so she hasn't moved on.
And it's still that in the book.
I mean, and after she found outeverything she found out, it was
like, oh, that's why she hatedyou, girl.
It makes sense.
And I was mad at the wholesituation because as Tasha would
always say about me, therapy andconduct.

(43:18):
I was just about to say therapyand condom.

SPEAKER_03 (43:21):
I'm gonna circle back to the question.
I'm gonna circle back to thequestion real quick so I can
give you guys my perspective onforgiveness.
But counseling, listen,especially my beautiful black,
bookish baddies, counseling isokay.
Like, talk to somebody, talk itout.
I know, like it's a taboo thingin our culture, you know what

(43:42):
I'm saying?
Like, generally speaking, and Iknow that we have gotten better
about it from a culturalstandpoint.
But man, counseling is okay.
Talk to somebody, talk toanybody, ideally professional,
that that's what they do.
But the homie, sometimes thehomie up the street works too.
Like, but circling back to thequestion, because I want to make

(44:03):
sure that you you guys touchedon something, so I want to give
my take on that.
Like forgiveness, the quote.
Okay.
So forgiveness is accepting thehope that things couldn't have
been different.

SPEAKER_02 (44:15):
Giving up the hope that the past could have been
any different.

SPEAKER_03 (44:18):
Okay.
So for me, I'm on a journey, I'mon my spiritual journey, and I
will say that there's an aspectof spirituality to it, right?
So when you're talking aboutthings being different, I think
there's a a space in there forwhat is your belief system?
Like, what do you believe?
If you believe that, you know,things are predestined and so on

(44:40):
and so forth, then the path, mypath is my path, right?
And yes, we're gonna detour, butwe have to go through certain
things along the way to getright to the destination.
So for me, what forgivenesslooks like is who can I control?
I can't control anybody butmyself, right?

(45:01):
So I have to start there.
And there's always three sidesto every story, every situation:
my side, the other person, andthen what actually really
happened, right?
So from a forgivenessperspective, I can forgive you
and I can forgive you and loveyou and let you live your life
without allowing you continuedaccess to me, or I can forgive

(45:24):
you, love you, and make anadjustment to our relationship,
but still allow access.
So I think that there's a coupleof different things.
Could things have been anydifferent?
Could the actions, could thepath have been any different?
I think I personally am gettingto a place where I don't know
that I think so.
I think that all of the thingsthat I experienced put me right

(45:48):
here in this moment, on thisday, able to speak to and have
the perspective and have theconversations and have the
knowledge and have the wisdom ondifferent things, right?
If I hadn't had certainexperiences, I wouldn't be able
to speak to and have aperspective or an opinion on
certain things because I'd belike, I don't know.
I don't know.

(46:08):
You tell me.
You see what I'm saying?
So I agree with the quote.
I like the quote.
I've never heard it before, butI'm like, ah yeah, that's that's
it.
Forgiveness doesn't necessarilymean like forgive and everything
goes right back to the way thatit was.
But yes, I can forgive you, andwe never have to talk about it
again.
And the accountability for me,and I've had some recent

(46:31):
situations.
This year's been wild.
At some point, we'll get to thewild time that this year was.
But I've had a lot ofadjustments and changes and
quite a few relationships that Ihave.
You know what I mean?
Like long time, 20 plus yearsrelationships.
And at the end of the day, it'sall okay.
I don't harbor any hardfeelings, any bad feelings

(46:55):
towards anybody.
Like, there's no hard feelings,like whatever the situation was,
and whatever our relationshipis, whatever access, whatever
the interaction is, I know whatit's done for me and how it has
allowed me to be morewell-rounded, and I hope that
it's done the same for the otherindividuals.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (47:15):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (47:16):
That's very big of a honestly, but that's me today.
Don't I but no two years ago,you know.
That's a good thing that's amaturity right there.
And I love it.
That's gross.

SPEAKER_01 (47:29):
I've learned to be in the same room with a person
that I didn't forget, but Iforgave.
Yeah.
I didn't forget, and and I toldTasha, I didn't tell her the
whole story, but I was like,yeah, I'll be around certain
people.
I'll be like, mm-hmm.
But in the back of my head, I'llbe like, we'll never be friends.
I tried when I was younger.
I tried.
I had a full blown conversationwith a person on the phone,

(47:50):
maybe one or two hours, and Igot off the phone and I told my
husband, I will never be friendswith that person again.
And that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 (47:55):
And that's okay.
And that is okay.
It is.

SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
And but I but I know I'm gonna see you, and I can be
in the same room with you.
I could chop it up.
We could talk about the kids, wecould talk, but surface levels,
but we're just never going to befriends again.

SPEAKER_02 (48:10):
And it's okay.
And I think sometimes we do tendto want to hold on.
So now we're trying to becauseyou miss it.

SPEAKER_01 (48:17):
You don't want to get that down.

SPEAKER_02 (48:18):
It's okay to be like, you know, it's not good
for me.
I'm I'm big on it.
Hey, we was we was type for aseason or a reason.
Hey, and I got we we got what weneeded at that time, and but
we're in a different time andspace right now, and I'm okay
with that.
So, okay, some maybe I might bealright at forgiving.
Yeah, you'll be alright.
Give yourself some credit.
Right.

(48:39):
All right, y'all ladies.
Let's move on to our finaldrink.
Now, this one, this one when youhang with the homies.
You try to go ahead and make abig batch for everybody in a
good size punch bowl, okay?
This is the Belvedere holidaypunch, but we're gonna call it
the um it's so hard to saygoodbye.
Okay?
It is made with our Belvederevodka, an apple cider, some

(49:03):
allspice, and lemon juice, acouple of orange wheels in
there.
We're gonna stir it around withthe cinnamon stick.
Y'all go ahead and sip it.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 (49:12):
Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 (49:13):
Cheers.
Oh, and not for nothing.
If y'all have not already gotinto this babka, who knew I like
babka?
Like, y'all, I might be Polish.
Um babka was good.

SPEAKER_01 (49:23):
This is good.
The holiday punch.
Okay.
I like it.

SPEAKER_02 (49:27):
Isn't giving me like a little apple cider?

SPEAKER_01 (49:28):
Yeah, that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 (49:29):
I tasted lemon apple cider.
Okay, that's good.
All right, y'all.
So for this question, now Marie,that was the dad's fiance.
Marie lived in the father'shouse.
Now, the father had not changedthe house, not one lake.
I do believe they even said thatthe mom who passed away, her
house shoes were still by thedoor.
Where she left.

(49:50):
Everything was on her side ofthe bathroom.
So Marie using the other hallwaybathroom because the dead wife
stuff is still in the bathroomwhere her fiance is.
Now they've been together forlike three years at this point.
Is you finna pull Marie, youfinna be up in this dead woman's
um memorial, like in her likehow many days, like, okay, on

(50:12):
the first date you see it,before you move in, you're gonna
say something, right?
Like, how was she just becauseagain, the daughter came and she
ended up helping Marie make thechanges, but Marie for real, you
was okay with this?

SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
No, I couldn't have been.

SPEAKER_03 (50:26):
So again, back to the the the cultural thing and
and the counseling, you know,the older, like older
generation, there is a a dynamicthere, right?
Like clearly there was somethingthere that he was holding on to
that could have probably helpedfrom having a conversation with
somebody.
Yep.
Absolutely would not, it wouldhave been a no for me.

(50:47):
I don't even know if if I'mbeing honest, I don't even know
about moving into the house thatyou shared with your previous
wife, period.
Whether you're keeping it andmaintaining it as a a monument
to her or something.
Shrine.
Yeah, like a shrine.
And it might be a good thing.
But we need to get our ownspace.
We need to get our own our ownspace and all that.
Because I'm I I don'tnecessarily want you to be

(51:11):
constantly reminded of orcomparing even to the ghost that
was.
You see, you know, you know whatI mean?
Like that.
Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 (51:19):
Took it for me.
If you, okay, hey, you still gotpictures of whatever you
understand, you know, you're youloved her, you're a grieving
widower.
But if I come to your house onthe first date and I see your
dead wife, now mind you, sheain't been dead like a year.
She's been dead for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 (51:37):
10 years.

SPEAKER_02 (51:38):
I come to your house and her house shoes is about to
come.
We're not even going on datetwo, because clearly you got
some stuff to work.
You should probably talk to myfriend Steph about some therapy.
She knows some people, she hasnumbers, she can she can connect
you with some.
But I don't even see how we getto date two when I come in in

(51:58):
your house as a whole shrine.
Y'all know I love Miss Melvin.
If I ever lost a night, it'sdefinitely going to be uh me,
I'm gonna feel that forever.
I feel like it would be deeplyinsensitive of me to have his
shoes by the doorlight.
I just I didn't change a thing.
Yeah.

(52:18):
Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 (52:19):
I would have a conversation.
So I think before I even enteredthe house, if if you asked me to
move in and you want to make itofficial, I think I would have
already had a conversation withhim at that time and said, like,
I don't mind moving in.
Do you mind if we can make itmore of a home for us?
Like, I would have come at himin a way where, right, star, he

(52:41):
needs therapy.
But where, you know, besidesthat, it would just be more,
let's just have a conversation.
Like, I love to move in herewith nothing disrespectful
towards your you being a widow,you having lost your wife.
I understand that, but it wouldbe a conversation of if I'm
moving in, we're making this ahome together.
This is our home.

(53:02):
Are you okay with me?
And and I would have thatconversation, whatever the
conversation is, about making ita home for us.
Like I will be making somechanges, but I want it for us to
make changes, not I'm pickingeverything out and it's my
personality.
I want it to be an us thing.
So, yes, I will be moving thehouse shoes, but I wouldn't have

(53:23):
moved in without having thatconversation first.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (53:25):
And I will say to in his defense, so in his defense,
when she did decide, once Faithwas back home and was like, wait
a minute, come on, enough now.
He didn't protest.
I didn't, I don't recall thatthere was ever in a a point in
the book where he protested andsaid after the book.

SPEAKER_02 (53:45):
There was nothing imperfect about the book.
Because it was because it was aperfect book.

SPEAKER_03 (53:50):
Because it was a perfect beautiful holiday story.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (53:54):
Of course, she said, can I change your entire house
that he had had for 18 years andall of a sudden he was okay with
it?
I mean, in perfect world, ofcourse, that's the way it went
down.
So here's another perspective,though.

SPEAKER_03 (54:06):
Now, let me give you this perspective.
Men, the male species, okay?
Women, we're feelers, we'renurturers, we're, oh, all the
good feels, all the emotions,right?
And not that men don't havefeelings, but they don't express
their feelings and verbalizetheir feelings the way that we
do.
And that's okay.
That's what makes us different.

(54:26):
That's why we're yin and yang.
That's why we're the balance.
That's why we're the helpmates,all the things, right?
The other perspective to takeinto consideration is the fact
that what we did learn in thebook, right, about their
relationship and who he was toFaith's mother and who he
stepped up to be and what hestepped up and stepped in to do,

(54:47):
right?
The part when you spend alifetime with someone, and you
kind of touched on it, imaginehow overwhelming it could be to
pack up, box up, bag up theperson that you spent a lot of
time with bagging up their shit,putting it in a box and being

(55:10):
like, and putting it out fortrash or putting it out to
donate or whatever the case maybe.
So again, to the counselingpoint, right?
If you're if you're talking tosomeone, if you're the man and
you're talking to someone aboutwhat that looks like and how
that feels, then maybe it makesit a little bit easier to
process and do the things.
But if you're a typical malethat's holding those feelings

(55:32):
in, yeah, you know what I'msaying, and not having that
conversation and not evenprocessing those feelings, just
imagine how overwhelming thatcould be.
Because even for women, it'soverwhelming.
You know what I mean?
Like it's overwhelming forwomen.
So that I think the other takethat we could look at is it it
was the perspective was meant toshed light on that piece, and we

(55:55):
could look at that perspectiveof it versus.

SPEAKER_01 (55:58):
But he didn't even help though.
But he didn't, but after allthat, but he didn't even help.

SPEAKER_03 (56:02):
He didn't protest.
He didn't, but he definitelydidn't help.
He didn't protest, but he didn'thelp.
And I think, again, I can't evenbegin to imagine because I've
never spent a lifetime withsomeone.
I've never spent a lifetime withanother person.
But I know that I've heardpeople say women will take a
little bit longer to get intoanother relationship or whatever

(56:25):
the case may be because they'reprocessing or they're dealing
with those emotions and thosefeelings versus men, like I hear
people say, like, men are notgoing to be by themselves,
right?
And maybe there's a dynamic ofthat because when you're by
yourself, you're forced to kindof sit in those feelings and
those emotions and deal with,you know what I mean, and deal

(56:46):
with those things.
So moving her in and stillmaintaining the restaurant,
still maintaining like everydaylife, you know what I mean?
Like, okay, no, it's justregular, but it's not though,
because you're like living inthis whole shrine to the one,
like you're not just not gonnaacknowledge it.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
So And that's where for me I get that, and that's
why I said I would have aconversation with him before I
moved in, saying, hey, let memake these changes because of
the restaurant, everythingthat's on his plate.
You're consumed.
I'm not gonna throw everythingaway, but I can organize this is
house stuff, kitchen stuff,clothes, shoes, whatever.

(57:24):
And at that point, he can makethe decision of does he want to
keep it, does he not want tokeep it?
But that would have been aconversation that I would have.
You're right, it's overwhelming.
And men do tend to move on.
I told my husband, I said, Isaid, Jeff, if we got divorced,
you'd be married with under ayear before I even looked at
another man.
And he was like, How do you saythat?
I said, Because everybody that Iknow around me, anybody that has

(57:44):
gotten divorced, the husband hasgotten married, already
remarried.
All of the ex-husbands havegotten remarried, and the wives
are still looking for that boo.

SPEAKER_02 (57:53):
Because the wife is around here looking for all the
things that she didn't have herhusband.
She's looking for Mr.
Purpose.
He's just like, Hey, I just needsomebody to give me a slide and
freezing.

SPEAKER_04 (58:04):
I just need somebody to fill this space.
And I also think we also to givethe dad a little more credit,
too, he experienced essentiallythree losses at the same time.
Because, yes, like his wife'sstuff was still up, but face
room was still completelyintact, too.
Like she was talking about howall of her little boy band

(58:27):
posters were still there, bedhas still looked the same, like
when she left.
And so I can imagine you'relosing your wife, you lost your
daughter.
I mean, yes, he told her toleave, but also like later in
the book, we learned like howmuch he really loved.
Like, you have that kind of loveis something different,

(58:49):
especially for them to have gonethrough what they went through
and found out what they foundout.
I feel like he loved faith.
Yeah, loved faith.
And then also the third lossbeing his business.
It talked about how he stillshowed up for work every day.
He still went through his samemotions, right?
And people were not showing upbecause of what his wife did.

(59:11):
So I can only imagine likehaving to maintain essentially
his whole life got taken awayfrom him in an instant.

SPEAKER_01 (59:20):
Within the time.

SPEAKER_04 (59:21):
And so, not saying that it's okay to like still
keep up all of these things, butI would imagine, like, he also
seemed like a creature of habit.
So he's just going to, if itain't broke, we're gonna keep
doing the same thing becausethat's what I've always done.
Deeply, he was probablydepressed, like deeply, deeply
depressed that definitely neededhelp.

(59:42):
But like, also, that's a lot togo through on your own,
essentially.
Because when Spade left, it wasjust him, it was him by himself.
He didn't have nobody.
It was just him in this smallcountry town, and moving on
autopilot is wash, rinse,repeat, yeah, wash, rinse,
repeat.

SPEAKER_02 (59:59):
Yeah, I'll.
Okay, I can I can see that I cansee that.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
All right.
All right.
Final thoughts.
Final thoughts.
Y'all will have to read the bookbecause there are things that we
didn't mention.
That will give you insight ontowhy Faith was acting the way
that she did and why her fatherdid acted the way he acted.
So it was a lot of revelationstowards the end that was a
little bit too quick for Steph.

(01:00:23):
For sure.
They did rush to the show.
And then, you know, a lothappened in two weeks.
We found out a lot of stuff intwo weeks.
Therapy and condoms.
It's a hallmark read.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:32):
They dragging it.
Christmas break is two weeks.
You got two weeks.
A lot happened in those twoweeks.
You got two weeks to get to getto all the things.
Yeah, there's a whole there's awhole dynamic with Rome and his
mother's relationship that wedidn't even touch.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:47):
So not for nothing.
I feel like she didn't reallytouch it that deep either.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
They didn't.
Okay.
They didn't.
Because it no, she's right.
Go ahead and start outro.
She's right, though.
She's right, though.
She's right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:02):
Start.
Go ahead, outro us.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:04):
Go ahead, girl.
Definitely a good read.
Um, before we close, you knowthe vibes.
We always save space forsomething to sit with, sip on,
or carry into your week.
Either a lit challenge to moveyou, a top or thought to ground
you, or a memorable quote fromthe book that lingers like a
good sip.
So for tonight's pour, it wassentimental.

(01:01:25):
So let's play a little memoryroulette, is what we're gonna
do.
So we have an on the spot litchallenge for the co-hosts, for
all the co-hosts here, and it'scalled holiday playback.
So here's a feel-good one.
Share the name or just the vibeof a person you'd secretly want

(01:01:46):
a second chance moment with thisholiday.
Oh Lord.
Could be love.
So here's here's the part whereit's not gonna break up no happy
home.
Thank you.
I got I got y'all.
They said, oh, in unison, like,uh, is she trying to break up a
happy home?
Absolutely not, because it couldbe love, friendship, family, or

(01:02:07):
a messy situationship youlow-key miss.
So it doesn't have to benecessarily love.
It could be a friendship thatyou miss, it could be a family
member that you miss.
You don't have to share thename.
You could just share a memory orlike a vibe, like what if there
was a vibe that you and aparticular friend or family
member, you know.
So that's kind of the thought.

(01:02:28):
So as always, I'll give you guysa little inspiration and I'll go
first.
So I'm not gonna say the name.
So the memory, the vibe, thereis an individual in my past who
used to share songs from his hisplaylist with me.

(01:02:49):
Like that was his not themixtape.
Yeah, like mixtape vibes, butmodern day absolutely.
So that's that's the vibe.
Like that's the that's the vibe,that's the the memory, that's
the person I wouldn't mind a aholiday reconnect with.
It was cute.
Like you bring the music, I'llbring the wine.
Oh, okay.

(01:03:10):
I'm in town for I'm only in townfor tonight.
Sorry.
Okay.
What y'all got?
Because you know, Christmasbreak is two weeks, so uh that's
all I got.
I'm here for a fun time, not along time.
I'm sorry.
No, I'm just playing, y'all.
Don't mind me.
But come on, y'all, what y'allgot?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:29):
Okay, so for me, what comes to mind is we moved
from New York to to Florida, andthe biggest things that we used
to do when we were in New York,because my mom has a big family,
it was it's 10 siblings total.
One boy, nine girls.
We would all get together.
The sisters, the aunts, well, myaunts and any of them that had

(01:03:50):
kids, we would all get togetherand we would do Christmas
together and exchange gifts, andwe would have big black garbage
bags where we would put all ofthe gifts that y'all got and put
it in a bag and take it home soyou could open on Christmas Day.
And so we would just gettogether, and it would be like
30 of us, maybe 40 of us, andthat's what I miss.
Like if I could have it back.

(01:04:11):
I remember sitting in theU-Haulk truck crying when we
were leaving New York, and I waslike, no.
But for me, it's not necessarilya holiday significant because my
boo has been in my life forever,so it's more family for me,
where I would have if I couldhave that again, I miss that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:29):
That's cute.
And she loves her boo.
I do understand.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:33):
I do, I do, I really do.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:35):
I love that.
That's good.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:37):
Um snow.
And that's crazy because Iactually hate the snow.
Like, when I when I left Utah,that was one thing that I was
like, yes, I'm good.
I'm good.
But in being away from Utah, andyes, like I think almost every
holiday season I've gone back toUtah and like done the whole

(01:04:59):
Christmas thing with my family.
But like, Atlanta doesn't feellike when it's Christmas here,
it doesn't feel like Christmas.
It doesn't.
Because it be hot stillsometimes, there's no snow.
There may be a little chill inthe air, but like it's not
really it's not the whiteChristmas that I'm used to.
So I would say snow, but thenalso just me and my sisters were

(01:05:22):
all grown now.
Like our last Christmas was thelast Christmas we had where any
of us still lived at home.
Now it's like a chore to get usall together and to like do all
of these things.
So I would say, like, yeah, Iwould probably that's what I
miss the most, just the snow,and then like all of us being
able to come together so easilyto celebrate the holidays.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:46):
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:47):
Um, okay, yeah, I bounce back and forth between
two.
I do definitely, I definitelyhave a friend who I miss, which
it's hard for me to say, but Imean, because I'm like, hey, it
it was what it was, relationshipended, and y'all know I'm petty,
so I'm not finna, I'm not finnacall.
Like, whatever.
Um You don't have to be a coupleof things.
But there's definitely a part ofme that's like I miss what we

(01:06:09):
had at that time.
If she called, I would answerand definitely be open to a
conversation.
But then also like listening toyou guys talk about like family
stuff.
I will say that now that I sentmy last baby off to school, and
I think last year would havebeen the first, would have been
the first year that I didn'thave all of my kids back home
for for Thanksgiving.
It wasn't even Christmas, it'sThanksgiving, you know.

(01:06:30):
Devin had to work.
And I'm just like, oh, wait aminute.
And then now, you know, likeDevin, you know, he's about to
have his own family and stuff.
But I'm like, okay, I'm enteringinto that stage where I can't
make them come home.
We're not finna always be, hey,y'all, y'all got the pin.
It's just it's just a software.
It's just a fine bush, y'all.
Like, it's other people, whichagain, I love all the other
people who have been added.

(01:06:50):
I love the additional familymembers, but since I'll be like,
well, I mean, y'all, y'all, Imean, just slide this.
The OG just for the family.
The OGs.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:57):
Can y'all slide over?
No significant other.
We're trying to get a familypicture.
No shade.
Just the core.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
The core family.
And like, I definitely can likenow, it makes me like a little
missed guy, just being like, itnever, I said, I appreciate the
growth that we have, and I said,and I love all the new people
we've added.
But there is definitely a littlesad part of me that wish I could
just reclaim and just hold on toAvatasha and the three little

(01:07:27):
babies, you know, like forever,like in those moments, the
freezing time.
But I definitely am also veryappreciative of the expansion.
You know, it's it's twofold.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:35):
That's you know sharing is caring.
You'll get the grandkid everyother holiday.
I that whole thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:40):
I'm like, that's I'm like, well, can we end it?
But I just want everybody tocome to my house.
Like, your family, my family,everybody come over.
We're gonna make it work.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:50):
Y'all just all y'all just come over here because I I
I need my come over.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:56):
We're gonna get all five of them here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:57):
We're gonna move you guys to the side when it's time
to take our family picture.
But y'all welcome like everybodycome over here because otherwise
it's gonna be a problem.
Because I mean I need my threehere.
So everybody, all yourextensions, just come over.
Just come over here.
Because otherwise, I'm wearingunderstand my buttons.
But in the day is weird.

(01:08:18):
Like, who does that make senseto?
Well, I'll I will say those arebeautiful sentiments, and I will
say that I'm more than happy tobe additional family members
during the holiday season.
If you guys need an additionalfamily member, I'm more than
welcome.
Like, call me, I'll come fillin.
You're gonna know where I stay.
Whoever.
Like, whatever, whatevercharacter you're missing, I can

(01:08:39):
be that character.
Okay.
Thank you.
But that was beautiful.
Thank you guys for sharing.
And listeners, we have somethingfor you guys too.
So the listener challenge issend a message you've been
holding back, a thinking of you,a sorry, a what if.
It's never just about the words,it's about the door you open by
saying them.

(01:08:59):
So grow up, man up, don't bescared.
Okay.
Period.
So that's that.
We're bringing another one tothe close.
So that's it for this episode ofBlack Girls Lip Podcast.
As always, where fine women,fine literature, and fine
libations meet to the words thatfound you, the poor that held
you, and the version of you thatshowed up to listen.
If it made you think, fill, ordrink, pour it forward, share us

(01:09:22):
on your favorite social mediaplatforms and make room for
someone else at the table.
We'll be back next time withQueenie by Candace Cardi
Williams and Trust.
This one gets loud, gets raw,and does not ask for your
approval.
Okay.
Until then, read boldly and sipslip.
Slip.
Slip slowly.

(01:09:44):
Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:47):
Thank you for listening to the Black Girls Lip
Podcast.
Join us for our next core andour next page, Quinnie by
Candy's Cardi Williams.
Make sure to like, subscribe,comment, and follow.