Halloween Special 2023

Happy Halloween! Jose and Eric blast into the past to discuss the special Halloween episodes of nostalgia-favorite TV shows. They discuss how Hey Arnold is more meaningful when you're watching as an adult, touch on the idea that Stevil may have been the exact moment when Family Matters jumped the shark, and flutter their orange-and-black-themed eyelashes at the Halloween commercials and network promotional bumpers of yore that let you know the spooky season had really arrived.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
reflect and

(00:01):
mind
and
and

(00:22):
Hello and welcome to Black Magic Treehouse, the podcast where your best Halloween pranks
turn out to just be a dream.

(00:42):
My name is Jose and with me is my gracious co-host Eric.
Put down your tea and say hello, Eric.
I am Eric.
Hello.
Yeah.
And what did you say the flavor of that tea was?
It sounded like a soda.
I think it's wild black cherry tea, uncaffeinated or D.

(01:03):
Whoa.
I don't think it was D because that would imply that it was removed, right?
I think it just is caffeine free.
Sure.
The world of caffeine is a mystery to me.
I, for the most part, happily remain outside its borders.
It has not yet claimed me even in its tea form.

(01:26):
I really only drink it when I'm sick.
It's the Hall of Ween.
So are we like excited about that or how do you feel?
It is the Hall of Ween.
I'm pretty excited, pretty darn excited.
We decorated the treehouse with some nice orange string lights and there's a cute little

(01:47):
Halloween Advent felt calendar thing that we were bestowed and it's adorable and I
think it's going to make the season feel merry and bright.
How about you?
Advent.
So the only thing I know about Advent is like you open it up and like Harry Potter's butthole

(02:09):
or whatever there's like chocolate.
What is, is that what it is?
It's just like candy for every day or something?
So that is what the traditional Advent calendar is.
I might have been grossly misappropriating the term to describe what is basically a wall
decor.

(02:29):
It's like a big felt calendar and it's got this cute little adorable felt ghostie on
a string that you take and all the days of the month are little pockets and you take
the little ghostie and you tuck them in the pocket for the first of October and then you
move them over to the second day of October until you get to Halloween.

(02:50):
You could theoretically put something in the pockets but we haven't.
It's our first year with it.
We're just trying to see where this relationship goes.
We don't want to commit too heavily so early on.
Well, that sounds adorable.
Speaking of pockets, that kind of sounds like the word podcast and that's what we're doing

(03:12):
in Black Magic Treehouse is the podcast where we talk about the horror media that we used
to consume as children who had a burgeoning love of all things spooky within our dark
little livers.
What are we talking about today, Jose?

(03:33):
Well in episodes past, we have been focusing a lot on books, things that we read as kids
and a spoiler alert.
Our focus will probably be re… our focus will be returning to that in future episodes
but since this is a very special time of year, the spirit of the Halloween as you mentioned,

(04:01):
we wanted to train our sights on some Halloween specials as it were.
TV specials.
They're things we watched on television as kids.
Is this coming through clear?
Yeah.
Well, originally when I…
I think I'm the one who suggested that we do Halloween specials and then neither of
us wound up…
I think of a special as like a one-off like the Paul Linde Halloween special which we

(04:27):
reminisced about a couple of weeks ago as we were looking through our old blog materials
and we both wound up choosing Halloween themed episodes of TV shows.
So sort of broke the premise a little bit but also I couldn't really think of that
many one-off Halloween specials except for like, it's the great pumpkin Charlie Brown.

(04:49):
Yeah, I think the term is pretty much accepted by the mainstream public as the big umbrella
under which both of those things reside.
So whether it's like a one-off or variety show or the Halloween themed episode of a

(05:11):
continuing series, I think both people have come to accept both of those things as meaning
a Halloween special which is fine with me because the more the merrier.
Well, one thing that I wanted to say, we talked…
I don't remember if it was on…
Well, it was on mic because that's the only way we talked to each other at all.
I don't remember if we were recording or not when we were talking about how 90s commercials

(05:35):
or maybe early on commercials are a big hit of gooey nostalgia for both of us.
I wanted to bring up a couple of Halloween commercials that I remember that really set
the mood for this time of year just as like a little mini, I don't know, epitaph.

(05:56):
What does that mean?
I don't remember.
I think it was an episode of the television show Hannibal, I think.
What I mean is appetizer.
A conversation starter, if you will.
Yeah.
But I remember they used to have themed Reese's commercials where they would have a different…

(06:21):
I guess it was usually a celebrity.
Sometimes maybe it was just like somebody's improv 101 character that would be like…
They would tell you about how they eat a Reese's and it would be themed to like…
I don't remember if it was actually Paul Hogan or just an Australian guy, but they
had one where the guy like, I take a bite now and then he would take a bite and leave

(06:45):
a little U-shape of the Reese's and then he threw it in the air and then it came back
like a boomerang and then he would catch it and say, unsy the rest for lighter.
And then the slogan was, there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's.
But the Halloween one that I remember and it might have even been in black and white
was where two…

(07:07):
I don't remember what the voiceover was saying, but it was a vampire, somebody doing
a bad bellelagos impersonation and then like two holes appeared like exposing the peanut
butter underneath like it was a vampire bite and probably he was talking about how he like
sucks out the peanut butter or whatever.
All account eats a Reese's peanut butter cup.

(07:30):
I like to eat the peanut butter first.
There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's.
So that's one.
And then the other one was Mr. Pizza and Mr. Pizza was basically, if anybody remembers
Mr. Bill from back in the days of SNL or maybe you just remember Mr. Pizza and had no idea

(07:55):
it was a reference to something.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And then there was some kind of commercial where he had to go through a haunted house
remember.
I guess I didn't have as much to say about that one as I thought I did.
So two things about both of those.
One, this may be a controversial remark, but I'm going to make it anyway.

(08:20):
I feel of all the name brand candies, I personally, I mean, maybe it just comes down to the wrapper,
but I feel like Reese's Reese's Reese's, however you say it personally, I feel like that's
the most Halloween candy.
And yeah, like I said, it could be the packaging.

(08:41):
It's orange and yellow.
It's like orange and black kind of.
Yeah.
But I feel like also the candy itself, the idea behind it being, oh, two great tastes
that taste great together.
Certainly not an allegory about our political system, am I right?
No, I'm lost on that one.

(09:04):
I avoided making eye contact while I waited for the sound to catch up with Jose.
Wise decision.
And yeah, I feel like just the candy itself, peanut butter, it has the connotation of peanut
butter jelly sandwiches, this comforting food that you used to eat while you were a kid.

(09:24):
And Halloween has particular significance when you are a kid.
I don't know.
I feel like I'm getting very heady about a piece of candy, but there's just something
about it, that kind of warmth, the kind of warmth.
And I guess I'm also biased because full disclosure, I don't really like any candy.
Reese's is the only one that I enjoy.

(09:46):
So I guess that's why I'm bestowing so much clout to it right now.
But yeah, let it be known.
I think Reese's.
So did you go trick or treating then as a kid?
Yeah.
Yeah, I went trick or treating.
Did you just think like, well, that's not worth it because I'll get all kinds of candy
and only like one of them.
Yeah.
But I would just like fork it over to my sisters or my mom or just kind of leave it in.

(10:09):
You know, leave it up for grabs for whoever wanted it.
And you know, like as a kid, there were a couple other things that I thought were OK.
Like I like Skittles, you know, like kind of the fruity candy.
But yeah, for the most part, I didn't like it that much.
And especially now, it's pretty much the only name brand candy that I'll eat under duress.

(10:33):
Anywho, so that's one thought.
The second thought was, yeah, no, I have vivid memories of Mr. Pizza, especially that commercial
because I think it's cropped up a fair amount of times in those YouTube Halloween Halloween
commercial compilations that I watched to, you know, soothe myself in times of need.

(10:58):
And yeah, it's like he's I think there was actually I think there was actually some kind
of tie in with Goosebumps, if I'm not mistaken, with Pizza Hut in general.
And like in this episode where, oh, Mr. Pizza's going to the graveyard and oh, no, he got
trapped in the mausoleum.

(11:19):
I feel like there was also some kind of promotion to Goosebumps tied into it somehow, which,
you know, could be the case because of the whole Book It program that Pizza Hut had.
Right.
Which, speaking of staples of childhood, did you ever like get a Pizza Hut reward?
Were you all at all into that as a kid?

(11:39):
Oh, sure.
The whole AR?
Yeah.
OK.
Yep.
Cool.
Oh, that's the end of that story.
It's the Pizza Hut show.
Hey, everybody.
I'm on my way to Pizza Hut to get a Goosebumps kids pack.
Yay!
Almost there.
Hey, this isn't the right way.
Scarecrow Steve says it is.
He's no scarecrow.
Sure.
He is.
Uh oh, I think I woke the neighbors.

(12:05):
Look, Pizza Head, you'll be perfectly safe in there.
OK.
Relax.
The Goosebumps guys just want you for dinner.
See you in the next Lifetime.
Now you can collect one of three ghoulish Goosebumps glow and tell story card sets and
you buy a Pizza Hut kids pack.
As far as any commercials that I remember, not so much commercials that I think I remember

(12:28):
watching as a kid.
I just remember really, really getting pumped up for like from channel specific promotions.
So for instance, I remember on Nickelodeon, I remember like seeing Stick Stickly inside

(12:49):
his little room and like the lights go off and he's kind of a Mr. Bill character himself
or Mr. Pizza character himself, however you prefer it.
And I just remember, oh, the lights go off and sticks there and he's like, oh boy, Halloween
on Nickelodeon.
And what was the oh, I loved.

(13:09):
I absolutely loved all like the kind of I don't know if did they call it was Monster
Fest the name of the show on TNT or was that what the the marathon on AMC was called?
I'm talking about the one on AMC.
Was that Monster Fest or I get them.

(13:33):
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Was that like a totally madness?
No, I don't think so.
But in any case, I'm out of ideas.
Yeah, that's it.
All right.
End of the podcast.
We're done here.
No, I just remember one year where they had like, you know, it was like kind of a quick

(13:54):
little clip show commercial of like, oh, here's all the movies you can look forward to seeing
this October.
But I remember sitting on the couch with my grandmother and as it was going on and as
the you know, the promotion wrapped up, I was literally cackling like a little mad scientist

(14:15):
myself.
I was just so viscerally excited for the fact that like all these movies that I had either
already seen or like the sequels that I had not yet seen were just going to be like on
the TV. It seemed like all day every day and it just filled me with such joy.

(14:36):
This year, AMC's Monster Fest features one of the greatest collections of classic monsters
ever, but we'll let the stars speak for themselves.
AMC's Monster Fest, the classics come alive.
The five day marathon continues.
Well, it's funny because the whole idea of this was to do like, what are the episodes

(15:02):
or the specials that you like look forward to every year when you were a kid when Halloween
was around the corner?
Like what were you looking for in the TV guide?
And as I said, I wound up drawing a complete blank.
I'm not like, man, what did I used to watch or look forward to?
And I wound up saying, hey, Arnold, because hey, Arnold, I remember having a number of

(15:27):
like spooky episodes.
And then you reminded me like, well, none of those were actually Halloween episodes.
There was an episode that they did called Halloween or Arnold's Halloween.
And I was like, I don't think I've seen that one.
Well, let's do it anyway.
And that's the story of how I chose Arnold's Halloween.

(15:50):
And here we are.
Do you have any general, did you watch Hey Arnold as a kid?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
It was a favorite then and it's a favorite now.
We rewatched, it feels like the series, but it was probably maybe just the first couple

(16:11):
seasons before we had kids or some somewhere within the last five years, five or six years
ago, we took in this episodes.
And I was very pleased to see that it was not a show that was like, oh, well, I can

(16:34):
see why I like this as a kid, but it's lost some of its luster.
I feel like that's a show that just kind of grows in its emotional heft, frankly, the
older that you get, because it really was quite poignant in many of its episodes in
ways that you might not have appreciated as a kid, kind of like how we were talking about

(16:58):
with some episodes of Are You Afraid of the Dark?
But yeah, I think it's a fantastic show.
Well speaking of poignancy, it did have probably, I might rank it as my number one Christmas
episode.
Oh, yeah.
As we were talking about Christmas episodes.
I definitely watch it every Christmas.

(17:21):
But what was I going to say?
Oh, another aspect of the show that is unusual in addition to being, or I guess that facilitates
the ensemble nature of it is that it's an urban show.
It takes place in, I don't know if they ever, do they ever explicitly say what city?

(17:41):
It's clearly supposed to be New York.
I always thought that was the case.
I especially remember my grandparents watching episodes with me, my grandmother in particular,
and her kind of laughing and recognition of certain things.
And both of my grandparents, my mother's parents were born and raised in New York.

(18:05):
So based on that, I kind of always assumed that was the case.
But I feel like I heard something crazy, you know, that it was like, oh, it's actually
New Jersey or maybe even I heard Chicago at some point.
And I'm like, no, those are both completely wrong answers.
That cannot be right.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe it's supposed to be like a lot of time shows want to do like amalgamation

(18:30):
cities because they don't want to be restricted by like the strict architecture, whatever.
So maybe it's supposed to be like a cross between New York and Chicago or something.
Yes, it sits a lot better with me as an adult because I think when I was a kid, I was like
scared of cities.
We live like an hour away from Chicago.
And every time we went up to Chicago, I was like, we're going to get mugged.

(18:56):
And I just thought it like it's like, it's smelly and noisy.
And there's too many people here.
So watching it as an adult, I think I can sort of like in the same way that I have a
nostalgia for the area that I grew up in, which was the suburbs, I can see how like

(19:17):
part of the character of the city and its kind of griminess, which comes through in
the show is like for somebody who grew up in the city, that probably is part of the
nostalgia is like, oh yeah, the snow is just always dirty or whatever.
Yeah, playing, you know, stickball in the middle of the streets, you know, car, that

(19:39):
kind of deal.
Anyway, should we talk about the Hey Arnold!
Halloween special, which you did not have a chance to catch up on prior to recording
this episode, but it's a pretty basic premise.
So I'm sure you remember the gist of it.
I do remember the gist and that the whole gimmick is that it is a play on Orson Well's

(20:06):
1938 broadcast of War of the Worlds, which according to urban legend was said to have
panicked hundreds, if not thousands of people and caused them to run into the streets and
pack up their bags and shoot the dog because they thought that Martians had truly invaded

(20:30):
New Jersey and that they were just so scared out of their minds when in reality, you know,
and I only learned this as an adult because, you know, I was made aware of the story as
a kid.
Like I think via my grandfather, it was like, wow, that sounds crazy, granddad.
Come to find out it's like maybe a dozen people got a little spooked.

(20:54):
Yeah, it wasn't like this widespread madness in the streets, you know, purge level activity.
Yeah, people weren't just ripping each other's faces off.
Exactly.
But I know that was the gimmick where I need you to fill in the connect the dots for me
is what prompted the kids to do this?

(21:16):
Because it's the kids who are putting on this Halloween charade.
What was the impetus behind their prankery?
It's because I have to keep clearing my throat.
The adults are all so busy setting up their own like Halloween for themselves that they're

(21:39):
completely neglecting Arnold and Gerald, who just want to go trick or treating.
I think all the parents.
Well, I don't know what happened.
Do we know what happened to Arnold's parents, by the way?
Are they dead?
So I've heard they killed in a mugging.
Yeah, well, full circle.
I have heard that those details are divulged in the movie that came out a handful of years

(22:03):
ago.
Oh, yeah.
So short answer, yes, I think so.
But at this point in the series, we do not know.
Yeah, well, his Arnold's grandmother is a bit of a wacky sack.
So I think she just generally can't be depended on for anything because she's off being kooky

(22:24):
somewhere.
And I think grandpa is just so obsessed with like wanting to get the house right and giving
out the candy and everything that he will not indulge the child's interest in, you know,
going out and having a fun Halloween.
So Arnold and Gerald collude to stage the War of the Worlds style prank from the rooftop

(22:47):
to get back at them.
And then it's funny the way it unfolds, because he tells the rest of the kids to dress as
aliens because they're all debating about they're all sitting around in the I think
the baseball field that they make it that one episode that's in like the vacant lot.
They're all sitting around debating what they should go as for Halloween.

(23:10):
And then Arnold's like, why don't you guys all dress up as aliens and then come over
to my house?
And he doesn't tell them that it's because he wants his all the adults to get freaked
out when they see aliens.
So setting them up for some horrible peril with from armed adults chasing them around
in a state of hysteria.

(23:30):
Wow, Arnold, how duplicitous of you.
I'm surprised young man.
Well, it gets pretty dark because well, I guess I can go through it sort of chronologically.
So Arnold and Gerald are up on the roof staging the with Gerald doing the announcer voice
through like a megaphone in reverse or not a megaphone, but like, what do you call the

(23:54):
one that's not electronic where it's just like a big cone thing?
Bullhorn.
He's talking into that and possibly.
Now I'm just going to think about that for several seconds and not say anything.
Perfect.
Anyway, like they always use in like old silent football movies, like Harold Lloyd comedies
or whatever.
Anyway, so they're up there on the roof staging that and then the adults get wind of it.

(24:19):
I mean, they hear it on the radio and we cut over to Helga's house where her father is
talking about how or he maybe he's in a bar or something.
I didn't take very good notes for this and I watched it several days ago, but it comes
out that he used to be like a truck driver and he was like in, I think they say North

(24:41):
Carolina, maybe it's North Dakota.
He's on like a rural road somewhere and he has an encounter where like his truck starts
to like float up into the air, like, you know, the classic UFO light shines on him and then
he like jumps out of his truck and it like it's beamed up into a UFO and disappears.
So that's his story.

(25:01):
So he's primed to believe that the earth is under invasion.
And then all the kids come around dressed as aliens.
The adults all get hysterical and start chasing them around.
Grandpa's like, we better go save your friends, short man.

(25:22):
And they like run around trying to convince the other adults.
And then the kids have dressed up the water tower with a bunch of lights to make it look
like the UFO that's landed.
And this is all being investigated by a guy whose name I didn't write down, but he's
a guy with like a pencil mustache who hosts a program called, did I write it down?

(25:48):
Yes.
Because in the opening, Arnold and Gerald are watching the Z files.
If you can imagine what that could be a parody of.
And then UFO Tonight comes on and it's Maurice LaMarche doing his Orson Welles slash the
brain voice talking about.

(26:11):
And then so he's the guy who like comes to like he's driving around in his truck talking
to people on the radio looking around for aliens to get on camera.
So anyway, do you have anything to interject at this point?

(26:31):
Well, as you mentioned, the character, it immediately jogged the memory of like, I think
that's Maurice LaMarche doing Orson Welles, which came out in a way that now I need to
turn my brain off because poor word choice.

(26:56):
I wasn't listening because I was looking at my notes.
So it'll be fun for me to discover when I'm editing the episode what you said.
Yes.
It's UFO Tonight with your host, Douglas Kane.
UFO Tonight, I love this show.
UFOs, flying saucers.
They loom large in the imagination, but indeed, do they exist.

(27:17):
We now know that this earth is watched closely by intelligences greater than man's.
We are scrutinized and studied this small spinning fragments of solar driftwood as your
host and reporter and writer and producer.
I will be your guide on your quest to make contact on UFO Tonight.

(27:41):
One thing that I did make a note of though was at one point, Grandpa, when he's being
all dismissive of Arnold, he said, Halloween is a serious business and it's not for kids.
And then they do the rim shot as if this is like some, you know, Catskill comedian, street
joke or something.
Time for our meeting about the annual boarding house Halloween party.

(28:03):
Hey, Grandpa, can Gerald and I help out this year?
No, Arnold.
Halloween is a serious business and it's not for kids.
And I was like, I'm not sure what the punchline is there.
I guess just that Halloween is not for kids is funny.
But it's not really rim shot funny, is it?
Yeah.
No, that could have just have easily been, you know, like Arnold kind of looking at the

(28:25):
camera and, you know, Jim from the office fashion like, seriously.
When I said that the episode does get surprisingly dark.
So the kids dressed as aliens, which includes Helga and Harold and, you know, all the other
ones.
It comes up like, why can't we get this?

(28:47):
Like they try to pull their costumes off and they try to rub the paint off.
And then it is, Harold says that I got the one that was like permanent latex paint because
I knew we were going to be out all night.
So that's how they justify why the kids can't just take off the costume and say, Hey, we're
going to be out all night.
But at the end, Helga's dad, like picks up Helga like the alien that he thinks are the,

(29:13):
you know, he thinks he's an alien.
And he's like, he's like, seriously comes like really close to just like snapping her
neck.
Nobody move.
I've got your repulsive little leader.
Dad, it's me, Helga.
You do sound like Helga.
It's happening.
My worst nightmare.
The aliens are taking over my mind.

(29:35):
You're going to pay for this.
This is astonishing.
A large hulking man is about to ring the alien leaders scrawny neck.
Now an odd football headed boy seems to be trying to stop him.
Stop.
It really is Helga.
Not now, kid.

(29:56):
I'm saving the world.
And then the Deus Ex Machina is, I forget how, but somehow the water tower, I think maybe
they like shoot the water tower because they think it's the UFO.
And then all the water spills out and starts and like starts washing the paint off.
And that's basically the end of the episode.
That's funny.

(30:17):
I thought it was that it starts to rain, but I guess a shot water tower is much more dramatic.
Maybe it does start to rain and I just thought in my head it would make more sense to pay
off that this is the water.
I don't know.
No, you could be right.
But in any event, water comes down upon the characters.
Heaven word.
In some fashion.

(30:37):
From heaven word, yes.
Yeah.
I remember about the costumes specifically that they have like Mars attack brain sacks
on their head.
Like they have big brains kind of hanging off their skulls.
And I feel like that's how.
Yeah, big wobbly.
Yeah.

(30:58):
And it like kind of jello-y.
I remember the moment of like Helga, Helga's dad picking her up and I feel like he like
grabs her by the brain first and just kind of yanks her up off the ground.
But maybe that's just me imprinting on what actually happens in the episode.
But yeah, I remember the brains.

(31:19):
I remember the makeup not being able to come off.
The minute you mentioned the thing about Harold, it's like, oh yeah, that is why.
But yeah, overall, I remember it as kind of being it's kind of interesting because it's
like, oh, that's Arnold's Halloween episode.

(31:40):
And in comparison, it's despite the little moment of darkness that you mentioned at the
end there, it feels in my mind's eye and my memory, it feels like it's just generally
more wholesome, a little more safe and kind of classic as far as it's like allusions to

(32:00):
the whole war of the world's urban legend compared to like the other spooky episodes
from the series, which were generally like more traumatic in their images and the events
that unfolded.
Do you feel the same?
Yeah.

(32:20):
Well, because when we talked about the one that I remembered mostly is the one where
the kid whose name this is some I know you love the show.
Some of the weakness of the writing is that one of the kids is named Stinky.
Yeah.
And he's the kid who has the southern accent.
It's not bulletproof.

(32:41):
It's a great show, but nothing is bulletproof.
There's an episode where they're and it's I guess it's not Halloween related at all.
It's just an episode where they like a totally canonical episode where they are like trying
to figure out if he's a vampire or not.
And then at the end, it's revealed that like, yep, yes, he's got teeth and he's going to

(33:01):
sleep in his coffin.
I don't remember too many details from that episode aside from the ending where, you know,
and his nasally southern laugh, you know, I feel like there must have been lightning
flashing and he was like, and it's never addressed again.

(33:26):
Yeah.
So, yes, compared to canonically introducing the idea that one of the permanent cast members
is indeed a supernatural entity, I guess this episode is pretty tame, but it's fun.
I watched it with my girlfriend and there's a moment where grandpa opens the door to the
trick or treaters.
Oh, they all look so adorable.

(33:47):
Why don't you help yourself to some worms and cockroaches?
And then Dana started laughing like, I don't know, like she just saw a man's pants fall
down or something.
She was really into that joke.
Well, yeah, because it's like genuine worms and cockroaches and I like some coy trick

(34:09):
where it's like, oh, actually spaghetti and chocolate.
It's not like little gummies or anything.
Yeah.
Well, it really does speak to, you know, grandpa's commitment to the holiday as the character
where he's and yeah, I feel like I remember that where, you know, the kids run off screaming
and he's just like, well, what do you expect?
It's Halloween.
It's like, they expect candy.

(34:35):
Let me go through the rest of my notes because I really don't have that much to say about
the episode and then we can move on to yours and keep this, you know, under 90 minutes
this episode.
Watching it as adult, it's extremely obvious that Helga's mom is an alcoholic just from
the way she talks and or maybe even she's on some hard drugs or something.

(34:57):
Yeah.
She's just like super like lethargic and it says like no energy and no peaks and valleys
in her emotions.
Just like, oh, Harold or her husband's name isn't Harold, whatever his name is, but she's
just like almost asleep all the time.

(35:19):
Which is part of that darkness that I was talking about.
Yeah.
That as a kid, it just made me feel like, oh, I don't like the way this makes me feel
and as an adult, I'm like, well, some kids probably saw their own parents in this.
Yeah.
And, you know, the case could potentially be made just as with the mother, you know,

(35:42):
just assuming that big Bob Pataki is the kind of guy who probably slaps back at least a
handful of beers after he gets home from the beeper store.
And I with regards to Helga's mother, I remember the episode when you were talking about that
just now where Bob suffers some kind of accident, you know, like he breaks his leg or something

(36:09):
and he can't work anymore.
So he's at home and then Helga's mom has to become the breadwinner.
And you just see like the whole premise of the episode is that she gets so involved in
her work that, you know, whereas Helga wasn't crazy about the way her mom was before, she
feels even more neglected now because her mom doesn't have time for her anymore.

(36:33):
You know, she's just like on the phone at all hours of the day giving Helga the finger
to wait, you know, hold on.
But the fact that she gets so animated, Helga's mother gets so animated because she's had
some kind of purpose restored to her life, you know, really registers, like you said

(36:54):
now, especially, you know, in light of how she is and at all other times when we see
her in the show, it's like, oh, that's it's like, oh, when you see it as a kid, it's like,
oh, man, you know, look at her mom just getting so wrapped up in her job.
I know what that's like.
But in light of what things were like for her before that and after that, it's like,

(37:15):
oh, God, that's so sad.
Boy, I feel like I had a thought while you were talking.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I was waiting to get out.
No, no, it's not your fault.
It's me being an idiot.
Oh, I remember what I was going to say.
Yes, I was going to say that I have some notes for Hey Arnold in terms of like, there are

(37:39):
a lot of aspects of it that I think are kind of derivative.
But I will say I think the character, like the most original aspect of the whole thing
is the character of Helga.
She's just such an interesting character.
Like Arnold's kind of boring.
Gerald is the best friend, you know, like everybody's like such an archetype.

(38:01):
But she has like a real like internal life as a character that really transcends what
you tend to see on shows aimed at kids.
And it's not always happy either.
Do you have anything to say about Helga or should I move on?
Just for the sake of like recording and making it sound like it's an active conversation.
Yes.

(38:22):
Great.
All right.
My other note was the adults have bleak lives.
The bullhorn that Gerald was talking into says go figs.
I thought things was a funny name for presumably a sports team.
And the license plate on grandpa's car reads keep.

(38:42):
And that's that's Arnold's Halloween.
Well thank you for getting those last minute notes in there.
I'm not sure how our estimation of this particular Halloween special.
I can't imagine how bereft it would have been had we not included those.
So thank you.
I want to give a full round contoured experience to the listener.

(39:09):
Not unlike a photograph of a butt.
Yes.
So do you want to talk about Steve or not?
Yeah I was like do I have a cheeky remark for that?
It eluded me in the moment.

(39:29):
I guess I could do some kind of like rating or something.
I like the episode.
I would give it an 8 out of 10.
An 8 out of 10.
That's interesting.
I don't know.
Just like I said I haven't seen it for years now.
But like I said I feel like this one in comparison to some of the of course just other episodes

(39:54):
of Hey Arnold in general but specifically the spooky flavored ones I feel like this
one is kind of middle of the road.
It's just like it's fine.
I would give it a retrospective rating of like 6.
Maybe 5.
So take that.

(40:15):
Whoa.
5.
Yeah.
Well look.
They can't all be Steve-el.
No they can't all be Steve-el.
Transition.
So yes if that name means anything to our listeners for my half of this Halloween special
special Eric mentioned before that the the prompt that we were going with initially was

(40:42):
to look back at the Halloween specials that we looked forward to as kids.
The ones that we liked to the ones that kind of heralded the season and brought us joy
so on and so forth.
But we both ended up picking things that didn't really represent that we went off book.
We didn't understand the assignment our very own assignment and we just went with it.

(41:06):
So Eric picked something that he didn't never actually he never actually saw as a kid and
I picked something that I did see as a kid but I can tell you that as a kid seeing this
I in no way wanted to see it again or wanted it to be any part of my life ever again.

(41:31):
So in that way I this episode is not a good representative of our original prompt.
That episode being of course Steve-el from season eight eight season eight I thought
so season eight of Family Matters.
Season eight episode seven.

(41:53):
Season eight episode seven famously.
So Family Matters.
The penultimate season you might say.
Yes indeed the penultimate season.
So I actually just watched these episodes.
Spoiler alert there's two of them.
I watched these episodes immediately prior to our recording.

(42:17):
So suffice to say a lot of the details are fresh for better or worse.
One of the things that I noticed is that season eight this episode debuted in October of 1996.
So when I saw it would not have been that original airing.
It would have been a rerun because by the time I saw this episode we were in our second

(42:40):
house here in Florida after our move from Long Island and by that time it would have
been Halloween time of first or second grade.
In 1996 I would have been five so it definitely wasn't when I was in kindergarten.

(43:02):
Would have been a little bit older so the following year or the one after.
And it's kind of funny how these things work with nostalgia.
Certain things are within the sphere of our actual experience and things kind of fall
outside of that.

(43:23):
Like I feel like this is something that I saw or this was just kind of like in the air
at the time I was this age.
But when it comes to me and Steve all it was a definite time and place that I can mark
down in my diary.

(43:44):
This was the day that I saw Steve all and I don't know maybe that's not a big deal to
everybody else.
But I feel like those moments are rare especially as you get older and you forget more things.
Those moments are rare where you can recall like I remember where I was the day that this

(44:05):
happened.
So I don't know if I can say that I'm really proud that I remember the event that was Steve
all.
But I do.
And I guess at least some small part of me takes some joy in that and that it was an
actual event.

(44:26):
It was an actual event that occurred.
The date was September 11th.
Hold on is that what you're thinking?
It took place at the appropriate seasonal moment and it was like the cliche.
I'm just gonna keep laughing at myself.
You keep doing that.
It was the cliche it was just a cliche event that one imagines or like sees in movies happening

(44:52):
to characters like when they when they watch something scary.
That's what this was for me because it was at night.
It was in my home.
Other members of my family were there in the living room.
We were kind of like all watching the TV as a family.
We were pretty collectively we were pretty big fans of Family Matters I would say.

(45:17):
I feel like we watched it pretty regularly.
I know I was talking to Eric before off mic about how I have especially fond memories of
any of the episodes where Urkel transformed into Stefan via his little telephone booth

(45:38):
looking transforming machine with all the light bulbs along the sides.
But I especially remember and it's funny because this episode immediately follows Steve.
It's the episode called Karate Kids where Steve and the two boys feel like one of their
names is 3J.

(45:59):
I hope I'm not remembering that right.
And the other one they all transform into facsimiles of Bruce Lee and scare the punks
away from the local park who are hedging in on that territory.
And for the record Julia White does a pretty good Bruce Lee.

(46:22):
So props to him for that.
But yeah it was kind of a ritual I think where we would just all watch Family Matters you
know like 7 p.m. or whatever it was in the living room and we had a lot of fond memories
attached to it.
So we watched this Halloween episode and from what I could tell Family Matters had Halloween

(46:49):
specials prior to this but season 8 was the season that they introduced Steve.
Steve is or was maybe he's still alive out there somewhere who knows.
Steve was Urkel's ventriloquist dummy.
And that right there should tell you everything that you need to know if this episode is for

(47:11):
you or not.
Because if you're someone like my wife you need only hear that phrase to know that you
don't want to get anywhere near that thing and you know or touch it with a 10 foot pole.
I'll pause there in my summary to have a little bit of attention because I know we've we have

(47:32):
alluded to other ventriloquist dummies in previous episodes.
So I just wanted to ask you Eric because I feel like I've been talking nonstop.
What what what is your just general experience especially when you were a kid of the menace
that is known as the ventriloquist dummy.

(47:55):
There is of course our good friend Slappy but like how did you either respond to him
since he's the example that we've mentioned before or just kind of living dolls and ventriloquist
dummy specifically.
What was your experience with those like?
Maybe it's because of goosebumps and Slappy being such a non-threatening character as

(48:17):
my introduction to the idea of ventriloquist dummies being scary that I never really was
I didn't really ever find them frightening.
So you know I think dummies are cute you don't.
Give me the wig ever since I was little.
What happened?

(48:37):
I saw a dummy gave me the wig there really wasn't a story there.
No I'm not afraid of them but maybe if I had seen Family Matters Stevil before seeing Slappy
maybe I would have been because he's a lot scarier than Slappy ever was.
And a lot of ways he is so unlike my poor performance and not reliving my memories of

(49:03):
Arnold Tulloween and watching it in preparation for the episode Eric was gracious enough as
he always is to indulge in this episode himself so that he could comment on it at least in
equal part to anything that I had to say.

(49:25):
So that I would say is a distinction between the characters but I got to be honest with
you I mean maybe just speaks to the fear that I had of them and to some small degree still
have ventriloquist dummies.
I always found Slappy frightening if not so much for you know in the television episodes

(49:49):
if not so much for the actions he wrought and what little accomplishments he had in reaching
his goals of you know collecting souls or whatever he was after.
He just I feel like cut a very menacing figure and I feel like as far as most of the antagonists

(50:14):
you know the monsters and goosebumps at least the ones that had the ability to speak and
convey their wicked desires I feel like Slappy was one of the few who felt like he really
meant business even though he still traded in the really corny jokes that just seemed

(50:34):
to be part and parcel of the ventriloquist dummy package as Steve-L so aptly proved in
his episode.
Well I'm glad we put that to bed as far as your non-fear of dummies would you say that
it's at all changed or altered since having watched Steve-L for the first time?

(50:56):
This episode?
Yes.
Yeah I see the light.
I was surprised at how because there's a little warning like Urkel gives a warning to the
camera he's like got the I don't even know the kids names the stupid kids on either side

(51:18):
of him on the couch and he's like this episode is gonna be a little scary.
Which I thought was just hyperbole little did I know it would be the most terrifying
experience of my entire life.
Was that hyperbole or?
Yes it was but it was I if I had seen it as a kid I think I would have been scared because

(51:45):
it reminded me of you know in the mask when the bad guy puts on the mask and he's got
like the the deep voice and he's like some lean demon guy that scared me so and this
is pretty similar territory so if I was like six or seven I think I would have been freaked
out by Family Matters and there was an episode of Hogan Family too it's another dream episode
allegedly.

(52:05):
There's an episode of Hogan Family which is where Jason Bateman came from if anybody doesn't
remember which I think it was originally called Valerie's Family because Valerie Bertinelli
aka Rhoda was like it was a vehicle for her and then she like got fired over contract
dispute and then they just changed the name of Hogan Family because that's showbiz they

(52:26):
don't care about you guys.
But there was an episode where they like stay up watching a zombie movie on TV and then
it's like kind of an anthology movie it's episode itself where like every you see everybody's
different zombie dreams and one of them is quite literal where it is just like everybody
turning into a zombie around the main character and if you watch it as an adult of course

(52:50):
it just looks like a bunch of crummy Halloween masks but that one also scared me as a kid
so sitcoms man you know they're scary.
A treasure trove of scares if you know where to look but boy are you not wrong because
let me tell you brother as a six seven year old watching this in the dark of my living

(53:16):
room with my family I was petrified and I can't tell you if up until that point I hadn't
really encountered ventriloquist dummies as just a thing on TV or in the movies because
I can certainly tell you ventriloquist dummies seem like more and more like they're things

(53:39):
that very few of us have encountered in the wild in real life and they're more just like
staples of filmed entertainment.
You know I think most of us could say that with absolute certainty until like Jeff Dunham
came came into business I feel like most of us never saw like even if it was film standup

(54:05):
like none of us saw dummies acting within their proper context it's it's always like
oh they're that creepy thing that was in that one movie or that one TV show and in this
case that's what it definitely was for me.
It's funny how there are aspects of this episode Steve-O that echo with that that are echoes

(54:33):
of elements from the slappy episodes and goosebumps namely the rely and I don't want to you know
be to like internet conspiracy theory like oh slappy you know influence Steve-O blah
blah blah.
You know some things are just kind of like part of the general horror milieu but I do

(54:55):
find it kind of funny that like goosebumps as a series but you know especially and famously
as we mentioned in the previous episode the reliance on lightning as kind of like backdrop
and also narrative element in this episode in this case it is the thing that brings Steve-O

(55:16):
to life there's kind of a storm brewing outside and Urkel goes to bed like dismayed by the
fact that he sucks at ventriloquism and you know not just sucks he just can't do it.
So he's like oh I wish my dummy could talk and that is the fateful wish that manifests
as a bolt of lightning that shoots through the window and animates Steve-O to life and

(55:45):
I don't know just it's funny thinking back now to watching that as a kid how true that
registered with me as like yeah a bolt of lightning that can bring anything to life
so you know seeing it unfold before my eyes it's like this is absolutely correct I mean

(56:05):
that's this is how Frankenstein's monster was brought to life and now it's bringing
a dummy to life and this all just makes sense and it's freaking me out right now but yeah
a fateful bolt of lightning and oh boy boy where do I start.
My first thought tuning into the episode was well because I saw that it was episode eight

(56:30):
and like this is a fairly like if you I didn't watch Family Matters growing up so but I knew
that this was a thing and I think when I saw that it was season eight out of nine seasons
I was like I'm not sure exactly when the consensus is that Family Matters jumped the shark but

(56:52):
I bet this is after that point and it's like man Jaleel White is like he looks like he's
like 25 and he's just trying desperately to maintain this Urkel character that he started
playing when he was like you know 13 or whatever and like the voice is just so crazy and so

(57:15):
grating and cartoonish and I was like man I mean you know I don't fault him for that
like that's just what happens when you're on a successful TV show sometimes but it was
just like wowie this guy is really trying to pretend that he's like I don't know how
all these events he's kind of like Pee Wee Herman yeah go back to the Paul Rubin's well

(57:39):
it's just like I guess he's just supposed to be like an ageless character who will just
always be thus.
Yeah that thought crossed my mind on a little bit of a subliminal level just you know fleeting
moments here and there where I was just kind of like peering at him and saying to myself
that he is probably taller than most of the people he's on screen with but he's very consciously

(58:06):
stooping his shoulders and kind of ducking his head down just to appear you know both
physically and emotionally smaller than them so yeah it was kind of a trip seeing that
but what I was going to say before is that this episode in particular yeah like you were

(58:29):
saying I can't I can't say because it's not like I've been reviewing the show or tracking
the show in its entirety I feel like I've heard in the ether that when it comes to jumping
the shark I feel like people reference this episode and you can certainly see why just

(58:54):
because it for one seems like it is legitimately between a rock and a hard place between resemblance
resembling the same family sitcom that it had been for ages while also at the same time
really trying to tap that vein that you know movies and franchises such as child's play

(59:24):
did and and convey itself as like a legitimate scary and especially in the case of the first
episode a legitimately scary body count story where this mad ventriloquist dummy is trying
to dispense of all the members of the Winslow family and like I said at the same time that

(59:48):
it's like frightening if you're a kid especially but awkward if you're an adult kind of like
assessing it it's both those things and cute in the way that it's like it wants it wants
to have its cake and eat it too where it's like where you know we're we really part of

(01:00:11):
us really wants to scare people when they watch this but if we're gonna have this dummy
quote-unquote kill all the people in this family we have to do it in a way that's safer
the ABC channel so in some ways that's cute in other ways it makes things worse I remember

(01:00:32):
especially a couple things like rewatching this that you know clang the clang the nostalgia
bells and like all the worst ways it was the bolt of lightning reviving Steve-O in his
chair also the image of Steve-O breaking out of the trunk and we get that inside view of

(01:00:55):
him inside the darkened trunk and his eyes open and glowing and you know his little dummy
mouth just clacking and laughing like I remember being so scared in that moment like that was
a true blue ducking my head into the couch cushions wanting it to be over and like my

(01:01:21):
mother laughing at me from the other side of the room like oh it's just a show it's
okay but doing it in that way that was completely unhelpful it's like I'm telling you I'm like
reassuring you but I'm also laughing at how ridiculous you're being and not making you
feel better about this in any way whatsoever I was so terrified of that moment yeah not

(01:01:45):
helpful not helpful and then the first quote-unquote kill in the episode where Steve-O is in the
chimney the very cardboard looking chimney and he calls Eddie over and he's like oh I'm
stuck in the chimney and you see now this this literally just struck me now thinking

(01:02:08):
back on it when Eddie you know responds and you know that joking succumb way he's like
Santa that just made me remember like as a kid that just made it feel that just upset
me it made it feel so wrong because it's like as a kid you I still believed in Santa at
the time and so I'm like fully invested in this moment you know whereas oh it's the joke

(01:02:33):
for the studio audience you know him being like oh is that you Santa but me as the kid
freaking out on the couch I'm like Eddie it's not Santa it's not Santa don't go to the
chimney and he goes over and he gets pulled straight at the chimney by this dummy that
image was so terrifying and I think for the reason that you know one it's like bloodless

(01:03:00):
you don't know what just happened to Eddie but also as a kid you see that that is exactly
what you imagine happening to you as a result of the monster under your bed you picture

(01:03:20):
getting dragged like that and especially seeing like a character like Eddie you know played
by this you know tall strapping actor get hoisted and yanked up this chimney like he's
nothing by this little dummy you know I feel like as a kid I really identified with that
and it just made it so much more frightening because it's like that's what I'm afraid of

(01:03:44):
happening to me like all the time and if it can happen to that guy then how am I supposed
to be safe like I realize as I'm saying all this just like how much trauma I have connected
to this freaking episode.
Well the Santa line I wrote down Eddie is at peak idiot mode and again having never witnessed

(01:04:09):
family matters before except for like snippets I didn't really know what anybody's personality
was I was like there's a girl who he likes he doesn't like him back like Lisa and Screech
on Saved by the Bell okay got that and then the dad is the same guy that he's playing
in Die Hard okay got it but it's you know by the time you get to season eight of a sitcom

(01:04:31):
like whatever a character's season one persona is usually the writers will just like blow
that up to the nth degree because they're like hmm how do we make this character funny
seven seasons in I guess we have to make him the dumbest person like this guy is clearly
like 30 and being like Santa is that you?

(01:04:54):
Hey daddy!
Who said that?
Help!
Help me!
I'm trapped in the chimney!
Santa?
That's you!
One down, five to go.

(01:05:28):
So yeah at any rate Steve-O goes on to execute the other members of the family I don't remember
the thing with Laura I don't remember seeing like I don't think I got that as a kid and
even watching it now it's like the punchline it gets kind of lost because you don't really

(01:05:51):
maybe just because even as a kid I like okay it's she's standing in a cabinet I don't
you know because like and I guess I can't come right out and say oh you know Steve-O
chopped her up and stuffed her in the cabinet in various cabinets but you know the image
of her topmost half just so clearly looks like it's a regular person standing up I

(01:06:13):
don't think that really terrified me at all I was just befuddled by it and then who else
who else oh yeah like the so we cut to outside the house while a 3J or you know 4DD whatever
the little nephews or cousins or whoever the heck they are the little kids are out trick

(01:06:37):
or treating we see them riding on their bikes against you know very evident blue screen
and Steve-O is chasing them down and what is essentially a clown car that one is probably
worse than the others because it like you know you just it just pans to Steve-O laughing

(01:06:59):
in the driver's seat and then it like fades to black and it just you know business carries
on as usual to the next scene and it's like okay so wait a minute did he run over those
kids come to find out somehow he magically transports them into the basketball poster

(01:07:20):
that Urkel has hanging over his bed but once again same as like Laura in the cabinet it's
clearly just some kids with their faces poking through some holes in the wall where the you
know to line up with the poster basically like those little photo attractions that you

(01:07:40):
see at carnivals it's like all right well that's fine the mother Laura no no not Laura
whoops sorry I'm forgetting characters names Harriet right Harriet there it is Harriet
she gets transformed into a jack-in-the-box like a human-sized jack-in-the-box I remember
that moment I don't think that one scared me as much that one see that one was a little

(01:08:05):
bit of a sedative for all the horrors that had come before it it's like oh okay this
seems kind of silly I think I can deal with this but then we cut to the living room and
there's what we come quickly to find out is Steve-O with presumably his hand either in
a gaping hole in Carl's back or up Carl's ass and controlling him like a ventriloquist

(01:08:31):
dummy in a way that you know I know I said before like oh did Slappy influence Steve-O
question mark you know watch this YouTube video for more that moment did make me wonder
at least a little bit like did a young James Wan or a young Lay Wanel see this episode

(01:08:54):
and remember it when they were you know working on Dead Silence and they're like oh you know
what would be a good twist if one of the characters turned out to be a corpse that another character
was controlling the whole time like a ventriloquist dummy it's like did they watch Steve-O prior
to yeah I may know that also you know really

(01:09:16):
in the same way yep I wrote because I I wrote down all the
kills because I didn't trust myself to remember them and yeah I wrote Carl turned into ventriloquist
dummy inspired the twist in Dead Silence question mark oh see there's something there we're

(01:09:36):
on to you James Wan and Lay Wanel but at any rate so Carl is the final victim and what
ensues is a quite a wrestling match between Herckel and the dummy well before you get
to that though yeah I told you I used as an excuse as an excuse for why I didn't get something

(01:10:03):
done a while ago I said I was watching Great British Bake Off Junior or whatever it's called
The World of the Kids and why did that come up well because the joke that Steve once it's
revealed that Steve-O is controlling Carl Carl says I want to take my wife on vacation

(01:10:23):
to the island and then Steve-O says Jamaica no she wanted to go which is a joke that the
they were making I don't even remember what they were making on Great British etc. but
the guy the host guy was going around asking all the kids that and one of the kids I guess

(01:10:45):
they must have been prepped yeah I think the kids were prepped to know what to say when
he said the island because I wouldn't know what to say and so one of the kids was just
like did you make her and the host was like no you're supposed to say Jamaica and then
whatever anyway wow being of tangents that's mine yeah oh and also wrote down oh speaking

(01:11:11):
of Chicago we were talking about how taking place in the city family matters takes place
in Chicago and the kids who get run over by the car are wearing bulls jerseys so I looked
it up because you know that was the the dream team the early 90s bulls and one of the kids

(01:11:33):
is number 23 which obviously is Michael Jordan and the other kid is number 91 and I was like
who's number 91 because I thought that could be I don't know Scottie Pippen another basketball
player from that time but number 91 at that time was Dennis Rodman's number I don't remember

(01:11:56):
if the kid had like crazy dyed hair or anything you know how Dennis Rodman always had like
snow cone flavor head yeah he didn't have him crazy dyed hair he had a little wig on
that was like the platinum blonde look I'm not a sports person by any means but I don't
know what little I know of Dennis Robin I'm like oh he and that's who I thought it was

(01:12:19):
but I was like he was on the bulls I thought he was on the different I mean I'm sure he
was on a different last to me yeah sorry well yeah we don't got much going for us here basketball
wise so that's my that'll be my excuse and not that I was watching great British Bake
Off jr. so speaking of little people by the way this episode also has the distinction

(01:12:47):
that some of the has the same distinction as some of the goosebumps episodes with Slappy
and and other evil ventriloquist dummy television episodes and movies of look I'm not I'm not

(01:13:07):
going to begrudge anybody from taking work where they can get it and just making a living
but having a dwarf actor portray a ventriloquist dummy especially is infinitely more frightening

(01:13:31):
usually than the ventriloquist dummy itself in the case of Steve will hear it is not only
I don't know if I'd say frightening but it is very disquieting to see a mix of income
income grew as shots being used some of them are close-ups of Steve old the the actual

(01:13:55):
dummy you know clacking away and talking there are a couple of shots that I presume were
done with some kind of green screen like you might have you might see sometimes used on
Sesame Street when they wanted to like have the character you know the Muppet scene full

(01:14:17):
body and of course you can't do that because they're being controlled by the puppeteers
or to think of an older example like labyrinth with the crazy little firebird characters
that take their body parts off and you know or jumping and singing around Jennifer Connelly
it's that kind of green screen where it's like oh you see it full body but you know

(01:14:42):
it's clear that there are things kind of going on behind the scenes but then you also have
shall we say real-time shots with Julia White as Urkel and other characters in the shot
have Steve will moving amongst them and for those moving amongst them shots it is clearly

(01:15:08):
a dwarf actor did the episode that how did you watch it on what platform HBO Max oh me
too okay the little they have the little making of segment at the end and in that segment
they show like a child in the outfit but I don't know if there was like also I thought

(01:15:34):
that it was actually the same actor who portrayed the young Grinch in the live-action movie
with Jim Carrey all right I looked it up it's Josh Ryan Evans is the actor the late Josh
Ryan Evans who played Steve will in movement human form and he did play Jim Carrey's character

(01:16:02):
and how the Grinch stole Christmas and he was also Timmy on passions which is a show
that I did not watch but I like that was the only thing I heard about it was like oh there's
like a living doll or whatever on this weird soap opera and at the time that the episode
filmed if he was if it was filmed the same year that it was released then he was 14 so

(01:16:29):
we were both right he had dwarfism and also was a child man that was a twist I did not
see coming I said to Eric before we started recording that this beautiful Halloween special
was not the only time that family matters bestowed Steve all upon the world they actually

(01:16:54):
did it again the following year for season 9 the final seasons Halloween episode and
it was called Steve all season you can keep talking over me I'm just adding a little flavor
oh thank you I needed the flavor it was Steve all to colon this time he's not alone and

(01:17:21):
I feel like if it was going to be an accurate description of the episode and it's shall
we say express purpose it would have been more honest to say Steve all to colon but
what if he danced this time oh there's more well he did dance in the first episode oh

(01:17:44):
that's nothing compared to what happens in the second episode because we not only get
the benefit of seeing Steve all get down with his bad self the second episode so we didn't
mention this earlier but as it turns out the whole affair with Steve all in season eight's

(01:18:07):
episode is that it's actually Steve Urkel's dream he fell asleep wishing that his dummy
could talk and he proceeded to have a Halloween nightmare of what that would look like and
then there's a little quote-unquote cute false ending where he has another nightmare and

(01:18:29):
then he wakes up from that and then everything's okay again well they did something kind of
interesting with the second one because I guess they must have said to themselves well
this Steve all character just knocked it out of the park last year with the ratings we
definitely want to bring him back but how can we do that since we established that it

(01:18:51):
was all in Steve Urkel's head it was just a dream and they didn't and they didn't believe
it or not do anything cute at the end you know oh Steve or Steve it was just a dream
and he walks off arm-in-arm with Eddie to enjoy a bowl of candy corn and some late-night
monster movies pan to Steve-all and Steve-all gives the camera a knowing wink no nothing
like that happened it just it just ends you know on Steve-all's totally docile inanimate

(01:19:18):
face so I guess the team had the production team had a little bit of a conundrum in that
because they're like well we established that it was just a dream how can we make a sequel
to what just happened in somebody's head easy said somebody apparently we will have the

(01:19:38):
second episode also be a dream whose dream well initially it's Urkel's he is still rattled
by the events of the first episode now that the Halloween the next Halloween has come
is rattled by the idea that Steve-all will come back to get him even though he chopped

(01:19:59):
up all the all the dummy parts and blended them down to sawdust and flush the sawdust
down the toilet but he has a dream again just out of fear that Steve-all has come back he
actually comes out of the toilet ala ghoulies and boy that just tells you everything you

(01:20:21):
need to know right there and quite a visual metaphor for the episode as a whole he really
does Steve-all the dummy really does dig his heels into jumping on Slappy's bandwagon
with the whole oh I want your soul give me your soul wah wah wah wah wah and he's got

(01:20:48):
like the green glowing eyes and he's trying to suck the soul out of Urkel so Urkel has
this terrible dream at the beginning of the episode he tells Carl about it Carl's like
you need to get over yourself I had too much candy at my office party my office Halloween
party I'm gonna go take a little nap and boy wouldn't you know it Carl gets in

(01:21:10):
effected with the dream as and when Carl dreams about it he dreams of getting his own dummy
in his own likeness that mysteriously appears in the house and in the dream Carl and Steve
basically become the Abbott and Costello surrogates facing off against these two dummies Steve-all

(01:21:37):
brings the Carl dummy to life what is the Carl dummies name Carl's bed great hey plus
so the remainder of the second episode is Carl and Steve doing their Abbott and Costello
shtick as they're running away from these two dummies trying not to get their souls

(01:21:58):
sucked out of them the whole motivation of the dummies for sucking the souls out of these
two human characters is so that they can go on the road and have a successful career and
show business and the way that pans out is kind of strange because Steve-all manages
to suck Urkel soul out of him and what that results is not what you saw in the Twilight

(01:22:28):
Zone episode where the two literally switch places the ventriloquist becomes dumbified
so that he now resembles a dummy and the dummy becomes human so that he is now the ventriloquist
that's what you would expect that's not what happens though Steve-all the dummy just gets
Urkel's voice and his words you know in his words after he's done it you know Carl says

(01:22:55):
something like well what why why did you know you you suck Urkel's soul out but you're but
you're evil and Steve-all retorts well yes but now that I have a soul I feel bad about
it which gang let me tell you this is this is an episode that's just rife with like really

(01:23:16):
bad jokes if you can even call them jokes like they just fall flat in ways that the
ones from the the first evil episode you know at least they had a little bit of life to
them but here it's you know you hear the studio audience and you're like those people were
either held captive or I'm beginning to think that those aren't real people that are laughing

(01:23:38):
in reaction to what's happening here in front of them because none of this is registering
is very funny I did make a note on the first Steve-all episode because most of the sitcoms
I've been watching lately like I've been watching Frasier I watched an episode of Cheers you
know like good sitcoms and usually the audiences on like sitcoms for adults are like I wouldn't

(01:24:06):
say reserved but they're not that reactive like a joke will happen and they will laugh
I made a note like going into family matters reminded me of like that that shows for kids
like all that saved by the bell era when like everything that anybody did gets some kind
of like overwhelming reaction like even if it's not funny like somebody will just walk

(01:24:30):
into frame and people will applaud or somebody will like make a reference to something that's
current and people will be like you know I was just gonna I was just gonna mention the
woo yeah family matters does that a lot yeah so that that was sort of an infuriating I

(01:24:52):
don't know if infuriating is the right word but I'm glad that uh I feel like that's kind
of gone away like the audience that is told to be like can you be as loud as possible
every single second so that we can pad out our you know 18 minutes of story into a 25
minute full episode exactly so so yeah it's really strange like so this is their ultimate

(01:25:20):
goal is to just basically have the voice and attend in guilt of the humans that they're
victimizing I don't see what the end game is here but at any rate their their whole
goal of going into show business is what prompts the dance number in the second episode because

(01:25:40):
steve'll early on turns to carl's bed and he says hey carl's bad what are you gonna
do once you have a human soul and carl's bed turns to steve'll and says I'm gonna go to
las vegas not disney world like you would think like I was hoping he says I'm gonna
go to las vegas which is apparently steve'll's cue to turn to the handily available stereo

(01:26:06):
that's sitting on the couch and he presses the play button and we are treated to some
library rap music and steve'll and carl's bed proceed to get down with their bad selves
and we are treated to steve'll doing the moonwalk and carl's bed getting up on a table and shaking

(01:26:30):
his hips like he don't just don't care and by this point many of us are in that same
frame of mind we just don't care anymore life has no meaning and if I mean if the image
of steve'll's head bobbing out of the toilet wasn't already an apt visual metaphor for

(01:26:56):
the episode the dancing sequence definitely is and that really made me think to myself
I cannot think of there ever being in the history and this is a grand statement and
there are obviously things and examples that I cannot know because my experience is not

(01:27:17):
vast and infinite but I am still willing to stand by this just on the basis of the examples
that I have seen I truly believe that there has never been an instance in a film or a
television show where somebody on the production or creative team turned to somebody else and

(01:27:39):
said what if we have them dance and it ever turning out good and by that I specifically
mean like non-adult characters so anytime somebody turned and said oh yeah like when

(01:28:00):
they were making like the freaking super babies movies like hey you know what would be cool
what if they danced or anything involving animals hey you know what we should have we
should have a moment where these animals dance or in this case with animate dolls it's like
hey I have a great idea what if they danced never in the history of filmed entertainment

(01:28:26):
do I think that thought has ever translated into legitimately funny entertaining or worthwhile
seconds of experience what say you well clearly you're forgetting about a little classic program
known as Merry Christmas Charlie Brown every single character dancing on stage to Schroeder's

(01:28:53):
little piano shredding is classy I'm not talking animation no that was not specified I'm okay
I thought I was being pretty specific clearly I left out animation that is my fault well
maybe I wasn't listening yeah no animation now because you can make it look cute you

(01:29:18):
can do anything you want with it and in the case of you know Charlie Brown all of those
kids dancing are adorable but never never never has any kind of live-action movie or
TV show shown something dancing a non-adult thing person whatever and it be cute or funny

(01:29:43):
or I I'm standing by this I really am because okay Steve you're not a fan of the Napoleon
dynamite sequence I said non-adult because you know thinking of something like Fresh
Prince that doesn't that take place in high school or something whatever you know he's
an adult okay come on come on now I'm talking I'm Jesus I'm talking okay mr. commandant

(01:30:11):
sorry Gestapo yes I am the dance police nobody who is not an actual adult should ever dance
in a movie or TV show again it is not cute it is not endearing I don't care what the
studio audience is doing right now in reaction to this they are liars there I just want to

(01:30:35):
prove you wrong now I know you do but you don't even care about Napoleon dynamite what
about the truffle shuffle in the Goonies no no good no god no children no and they're
not animated so no tell me they're not secretly adult terrible terrible you're just proving

(01:30:55):
me right I mean look the thing is the thing is I agree with you but I think there are
a lot of people you know and if this would work a Wikipedia article the little citation
needed would come up above my head right now but I believe that there are many people who
would take issue with it with you saying this I'm sure there is but I am standing by my

(01:31:18):
convictions here Goonies never die man or whatever okay I'm just gonna be thinking about
that no matter what else you talk about like hmm guess what that's pretty much that was
tasteful that's pretty much all I have to say about Steve-Altu electric Boogaloo oh
no what's happening Jose is falling over to reveal slappy operating him like a dumb okay

(01:31:44):
whatever anyway I'm invincible I couldn't pull what the what the Jose version of a Steve-Altu
would be Josevil maybe oh boy now this I'm gonna be up ours but also we're gonna be
we should say email us at blackmagictreehousepod at gmail.com is that right that is correct

(01:32:12):
and that's where you can reach us follow our Instagram blackmagic treehouse pod yes can't
forget the pod I don't remember what has pod at the end and what doesn't both of those
do we don't have a Twitter because Twitter doesn't exist anymore and I don't care about

(01:32:34):
it RIP no not really not even that all right good riddance I say in that case do we have
any other calls to action just reach out to us if you are fans of either of these Halloween
specials and you have your own memories that you want to share let us know of other Halloween
specials or memories that you have and you know like we said after this point we're going

(01:33:00):
to be turning it the focus back to books so if you've got anything to share any questions
of things that you've been trying to hunt down or identify in the years since you were
a horror loving kid reach out to us or just let us know what you think about the show
things that you want to see because we love hearing from y'all that's all I got okay yeah

(01:33:27):
me too all right great so let's end this episode with a real shrug yeah real shrug well you
know what that's this is really good well if for no other purpose than to just provide
atmospherics allow me to lift the flap of this little jack-o-lantern that we've been

(01:33:47):
using to light the tree house and blow out the guttering candle inside and wish you all
a happy Halloween bye my dummy would be called scare Rick I can't believe you did that after
my beautiful closing well I didn't think of it until then god damn good and stop recording

(01:34:11):
it