January 7, 2025 • 19 mins
Get ready for a special "Best of Black Magic Woman Podcast" episode featuring a Mystery Guest who has inspired thousands with their eloquent words, fierce love for their people, and unwavering commitment to creating a better Australia. Who could it be? Here are some clues:
- They’ve had a profound international career, reporting from over 80 countries, but their heart has always remained connected to their roots in Wiradjuri country.
- This guest is a passionate advocate for preserving Indigenous languages and was instrumental in the development of the first Wiradjuri dictionary alongside their father, a language trailblazer.
- They’ve delivered a viral speech, turning the Australian Dream on its head to spotlight the reality for First Nations people.
Can you guess who it is? Tune in for this powerful and inspiring conversation that showcases the heart and wisdom of one of Australia’s most influential voices.
✨ We’re on holidays and will return with new episodes on the 22nd of January 2025! In the meantime, enjoy this unforgettable yarn and relive one of our best moments on the podcast. 🎧✨
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
If you enjoyed this episode, please ‘Subscribe’ on Apple Podcasts or ‘Follow’ on your Spotify app and tell your friends and family about us! If you’d like to contact us, please email, info@blackmagicwoman.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the
land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge
traditional owners of the land where you, the listener of
viewer are tuning in from.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We would like to pay our respects to our.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Elders past and present and acknowledged that this always was
Aboriginal land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to
the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bail. Welcome to
another episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast. My name
(00:38):
is Mondanara Bales and I am joining you from beautiful
Gadigal Country and we're celebrating Black Cart's tenth birthday during
EIGHTOC week here on the lands where my ancestors once fought.
The guests that I have with me today are big
(00:59):
shout out to our listeners and also now our viewers
on YouTube, and a big shout out to our new
audience and listeners around Australia because we are now the
first stablishmal podcast on the iHeartRadio network. Congratulations and you
(01:20):
can also listen to Black Magic Woman as part of
Virgin's in flight entertainment, So if you're flying home today,
make sure you check us out. But look I really
want to get down to this yarn, and I've been
waiting for about three years.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To have a yarn.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hard to track me, hard to.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Track you out even in Gama. I grabbed him for
ten minutes and it was the best ten minutes. And
there's a lot of deadly people on that yarn. But
I just want to say stand Grant, thank you so
much for taking time out of your business schedule to
join us on the Black Magic Women podcast. Can you
(01:59):
please introduce yourself to my listeners and viewers. Tell us
a little bit about yourself, your mob is and where
you grew up.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Yeah, I grew up everywhere really, my dad's moraderie mums Kamillroy.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I've also got Darawhal heritage as well.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
From my great great grandfather Frank Foster, who came from
around Laparous and then down the South coast, So my
family is really connected right across New South Wales.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I spent most of my childhood on the road.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
We moved around a lot. Dad was my tinerant laborer.
Saw Miller was always a big mob of us, you know, cousins, uncles, aunties,
my grandparents.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We'd just move around from town to town.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I suppose home was really Griffith, where I was born,
and the Three Ways Bridge, Aboriginal Mission where my family lived,
and we'd always go back and forward to Griffith. We'd
move away from work and then go back again. So
you know, my childhood was spent on the road and
spent among my own people, with the support and love
(03:04):
of my own people.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I can't help but think about your deadly father, Stan
Grant Senior, who has been a trial blazer when it
comes to Warajuri language.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Can you share with.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Me a little bit about the fact that you have
been speaking your Warajeri language more and more that I
want to learn Worajury now so I can speak to
you and Anita Heist and all the other Warajuri people
a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I learned the language.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah. Well, and then there's a story behind this.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
When my father was a young boy, his grandfather, my
great grandfather, Wilfred Johnson, whose name was Budjan Budjan Johnson,
he spoke to my father in the main street of
the town they lived in in Morajeri, called out for
him to go home, and the police overheard him and
arrested him. They charged him with offensive language and took
(03:59):
him to jail, and when he came out, he said
to my father, I won't talk this language to you
in the street ever again.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
We'll only do it out in the bush. And he
took my father out in the bush and he taught him.
And my father was one of the lucky ones, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
He was one of the last generation to be connected
with those people who had lived lives almost untouched by
white people, who had our culture, who had our language,
who understood our dance and our ceremonies and our stories.
And it was that connection that sustained my father. And
(04:35):
it wasn't until many years later, when Dad was in
his fifties that a linguist came to him and said,
I want to try to capture as much of the
Warrajuri language as possible. And he and Dad worked together
and over a five year period they wrote the first
Worajuri dictionary. They set up Moradui language centers right across
(04:55):
our country. Charles Sturt University today has a Arajuri language
and program, and our people are speaking it again, and
a new generation is speaking it. And what's really interesting too,
is that a lot of non Aboriginal people are coming
to it so for the first time in over two
hundred years, white people are speaking our language on our country,
(05:20):
which has been an incredible act of reconciliation, an incredible
act of generosity from our people, and a way of
imagining what we've been always talking about, imagining the country
that we should be, and bringing that country to life and.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Talking about country.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You actually lived overseas for majority of your career, twenty
years overseas as a foreign correspondent. I used to see
you on the news and my dad said, he's a blackfellow.
And when you came back to Australia in twenty seventeen,
(06:00):
you was part of a debate, a race debate, and
that video went viral. If you have not watched the
Australian Dream Speech, it's on YouTube. I refer to it
a lot. It's part of Black Card's pre reading. You
share the love of the country. You love, a sun
burnt country, a land of sweeping planes. I grew up
(06:23):
on that country. My people were shot on that country.
I know your speech of by heart. Yes, But what
I want to ask you is when you came back
from twenty years overseas, had anything changed in your eyes
in terms of you know the situation.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
That's a really good question, because I think in many
ways i'd changed. You know, I'd been away from Australia
for twenty years. I lived in London, New York, Hong Kong, Beijing,
Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Islamabad, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and I'd reported from
more than eighty countries, and I got to experience Australia
(07:12):
outside of Australia. I got to experience living as a
human being in the world in a way that I'd
never been able to experience my own country. In Australia,
I always felt as if this was not a place
that I could belong. And it was only looking back
at Australia that I was able to find a language
(07:34):
to imagine and be able to speak my country to myself,
if that makes sense. I found Australia by not being
in Australia. So when I came back, I looked at
this country again with new eyes. It wasn't the eyes
of a Worrajurie boy growing up on the inside of
this country, always feeling other people staring at us. I
(07:57):
could look back at this country now and see it
very clearly. If I had spent all my time in
the Middle East, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Pakistan, in China.
If I'd looked at people suffering in other parts of
the world and I came back to this country, which
tells the world that we're a democracy, and we're free,
(08:21):
and we're prosperous, and we're tolerant and we're multicultural, I
then have to ask myself, why are we failing my people?
If Australia is all of those things? Why do my
people die young? Why do my people locked up in
the numbers that we're locked up in. Why do our
kids not have a chance. So, on the one hand,
(08:41):
Australia may be able to measure some improvement.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We're sitting here today.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
There are more Aboriginal university graduates, more Aboriginal politicians, more
Aboriginal businesses, but what.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Has actually changed very little structurally.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So when I came to give that speech, wanted to
take the dream of Australia, the idea of Australia, and
turn that on its head and say what does it
look like when you come from the other side of
the dream and living outside of this country gave me
the words, the language, and the vision.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
To be able to see this country more clearly.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I absolutely love the way you describe this country. And
I am speaking on behalf of thousands of peoples that
have done Black Card training that they say that you
just your words.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Are so eloquent.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You're getting across a very important message, but in a
very eloquently way that makes and I've seen it from
my own eyes, makes.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Grown men cry. So it's touching.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And I think that's what you wanted to do, is
you wanted to get people to.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Feel first and foremost Mandanara. Our people are people of love.
You don't survive in this country for tens of thousands
of years, forever, as long as humanity has existed on
this land, it has been us. You don't survive here
forever without love. Our people don't survive two hundred years
(10:21):
of invasion and colonization and suffering without love. Our people
could not find the strength to go on and to
fight for a better Australia without love. Our people have
loved Australians when they have not had love for us.
So everything I speak comes from a position of love.
(10:43):
We have a word in Warajurijinjamara Jinjamara means respect, but
It means to respect even when those don't respect you.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It means the respect that comes from.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Knowing where you are, the country that you are from,
what is given birth to us, our relationship with God,
our relationship with our land, our relationship with our ancestors.
If we know who we are, if we know where
we are, we have the ability to build a better country.
So people often hear us speak these words and speak
(11:20):
these hard truths and become very defensive. They want to
block these things out. They want to accuse us of
attacking Australia. Nothing could be further from the truth. James Bordwin,
the great black American writer, said, I love America so much.
That's why I have the right to criticize it. I
(11:40):
love this country so much that I have the right
to criticize it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And by criticizing and writing books, it has also cost
what hasn't cost you your career. You've chosen to walk
away from a job that I could see watching intense.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Sometimes I think I could never do that as a job.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
But I heard a lot of people say that you
are the best hosts on Q and A, And before
you know it, you're not there.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, you're not on that show, but We've still got you.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And that's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately.
Is Yeah, going home. I heard you've gone back home
to be a country.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, what have you been up to?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
We haven't seen you, but what have you been up to?
And is there anything that you want to share with
our listeners and viewers.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
I've been reading and thinking and writing a lot. I've
been back on my country a lot. I've been spending
time with my family. I've been surrounding myself with my people.
I've been surrounding myself with people of love. I've been
surrounding myself with people who support me. We have the
right to say no. We have the right to say
(12:50):
no to the abuse that we receive. We have the
right to say no, I will not participate in this.
And we have the right to be who we are,
to be who we.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Are in this country.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And I've been reclaiming that, reclaiming the right to be
who I am.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know, I've spent forty years in journalism.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Having to be something else, having to live in a
world and work in a business that was not designed
for me, for us. There were no other Aboriginal people
when I came into the newsroom. There were no other
Aboriginal people working in Parliament House when I worked there
as a political reporter. When I went overseas as a
foreign correspondent, there were no Aboriginal people.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But I carried with me my own people.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
I carried with me your father Tiger, who busted down
the doors and took our voices onto the airwaves. I
took the people like John Ufong and Aboriginal journalists who
wrote for the Australian.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Newspaper when there was no one else doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know, I have struggled to carve out a place
for myself, but I had to also accept that sometimes
in spite of all the effort, in spite of all
the hard work, in spite of all the success, sometimes
it's still not a place for us. And the media
right now is not a place for me. And I
don't want to participate in a media that can do
(14:14):
so much damage to us and repeatedly does damage to
our people. I want to imagine a media that can
build a better country, not tear down the country, that
can bring.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
People together, not keep people apart. And that's what I
want to work towards.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
If I work in the media in the future, it
will be to build things, not to bring things down.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I want to end on a really positive note and say,
for a lot of our mob that are still working
in mainstream media, as the only Aboriginal or touch on
a person in those newsrooms, what would you say to them?
They're still there, they haven't given up. What would some
(15:04):
of your advice be to them, because you've had forty
years at it.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, you know, my advice would be to know that
it's hard. It is always going to be hard. I
don't need to tell you Mondanara. You know how hard
it can be. You know the struggle of your parents.
You know the struggle of your grandparents and your great grandparents,
the struggle of your family, the struggle to build your business,
(15:29):
and you have worked to make not just our community better,
but our country better, our country better. It's hard and
it's always going to be hard. We have to be
not just twice as good, but ten times as good.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I decided when I came.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Into journalism that I would work harder, arrive earlier, stay later,
read more. I would be better than everybody else. I
would not fail because of a lack of effort. I
would not because of a lack of determination. And I
would every day count my blessings that I am where
(16:08):
my ancestors have put me. So I would say to people,
it's going to be tough, but we come from tough
people and we can tough it out. And to remember this,
there is always a place for us and always a
place for.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Us to be us.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Don't sacrifice who you are for someone else's idea of success.
I have always, always, always strive to be who I am.
When I was in New York, I was a borrajury person.
When I was in London, I was a b rajury person.
When I was in Jerusalem or Beijing or Islamabad or
(16:47):
Pyeongyang or Soul or Tokyo or any of the places
that I've lived and worked, I've been a birajury person.
We have the right to be who we are in
the world.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh my goodness, if that's not the best way to
finish our yarn, I just want to say Stan, and
I've said it to you many many times, but thank you,
thank you very much for still being here, for still
being deadly, for still inspiring our mob to be the
(17:19):
best that we can be. And just in terms of
this country. This country is a better country because people
like you that write books and criticize it and speak
about it. You keep doing what you do, and I
can tell you now I hope that my children and
your grandchildren live in a much more united and reconciled Australia.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
And here I just say, you know, I want to
say thank you to all of our orders.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I want to say thank you to my parents.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I want to say thank you to my grandparents and
great grandparents and those people who have sacrificed so much
for us to be here. And I want to say
thank you to you for all that you do, and
thank you to your family for all your family has
done in never flinching, never flinching from the five.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Thank you, Thank you sir.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
What an amazing, what an amazing opportunity for us to
be sitting here in this room, to have you for
an extra half hour, but also for our listeners and
viewers of Black Magical, my podcast. I know that you've
been in for a treat, so I hope you've enjoyed
this episode.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Until next time, Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please
visit our show notes in the episode description, A big
shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who
continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Your feedback means the world.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You can rate and review the podcast us on Apple
and Spotify, or even head to our socials and YouTube
channel and drop us a line.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis.
Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the
land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge
traditional owners of the land where you, the listener of
viewer are tuning in from.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We would like to pay our respects to our.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Elders past and present and acknowledged that this always was
Aboriginal land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to
the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bail. Welcome to
another episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast. My name
(00:38):
is Mondanara Bales and I am joining you from beautiful
Gadigal Country and we're celebrating Black Cart's tenth birthday during
EIGHTOC week here on the lands where my ancestors once fought.
The guests that I have with me today are big
(00:59):
shout out to our listeners and also now our viewers
on YouTube, and a big shout out to our new
audience and listeners around Australia because we are now the
first stablishmal podcast on the iHeartRadio network. Congratulations and you
(01:20):
can also listen to Black Magic Woman as part of
Virgin's in flight entertainment, So if you're flying home today,
make sure you check us out. But look I really
want to get down to this yarn, and I've been
waiting for about three years.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To have a yarn.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Hard to track me, hard to.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Track you out even in Gama. I grabbed him for
ten minutes and it was the best ten minutes. And
there's a lot of deadly people on that yarn. But
I just want to say stand Grant, thank you so
much for taking time out of your business schedule to
join us on the Black Magic Women podcast. Can you
(01:59):
please introduce yourself to my listeners and viewers. Tell us
a little bit about yourself, your mob is and where
you grew up.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Yeah, I grew up everywhere really, my dad's moraderie mums Kamillroy.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I've also got Darawhal heritage as well.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
From my great great grandfather Frank Foster, who came from
around Laparous and then down the South coast, So my
family is really connected right across New South Wales.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I spent most of my childhood on the road.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
We moved around a lot. Dad was my tinerant laborer.
Saw Miller was always a big mob of us, you know, cousins, uncles, aunties,
my grandparents.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We'd just move around from town to town.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I suppose home was really Griffith, where I was born,
and the Three Ways Bridge, Aboriginal Mission where my family lived,
and we'd always go back and forward to Griffith. We'd
move away from work and then go back again. So
you know, my childhood was spent on the road and
spent among my own people, with the support and love
(03:04):
of my own people.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I can't help but think about your deadly father, Stan
Grant Senior, who has been a trial blazer when it
comes to Warajuri language.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Can you share with.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Me a little bit about the fact that you have
been speaking your Warajeri language more and more that I
want to learn Worajury now so I can speak to
you and Anita Heist and all the other Warajuri people
a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I learned the language.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah. Well, and then there's a story behind this.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
When my father was a young boy, his grandfather, my
great grandfather, Wilfred Johnson, whose name was Budjan Budjan Johnson,
he spoke to my father in the main street of
the town they lived in in Morajeri, called out for
him to go home, and the police overheard him and
arrested him. They charged him with offensive language and took
(03:59):
him to jail, and when he came out, he said
to my father, I won't talk this language to you
in the street ever again.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
We'll only do it out in the bush. And he
took my father out in the bush and he taught him.
And my father was one of the lucky ones, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
He was one of the last generation to be connected
with those people who had lived lives almost untouched by
white people, who had our culture, who had our language,
who understood our dance and our ceremonies and our stories.
And it was that connection that sustained my father. And
(04:35):
it wasn't until many years later, when Dad was in
his fifties that a linguist came to him and said,
I want to try to capture as much of the
Warrajuri language as possible. And he and Dad worked together
and over a five year period they wrote the first
Worajuri dictionary. They set up Moradui language centers right across
(04:55):
our country. Charles Sturt University today has a Arajuri language
and program, and our people are speaking it again, and
a new generation is speaking it. And what's really interesting too,
is that a lot of non Aboriginal people are coming
to it so for the first time in over two
hundred years, white people are speaking our language on our country,
(05:20):
which has been an incredible act of reconciliation, an incredible
act of generosity from our people, and a way of
imagining what we've been always talking about, imagining the country
that we should be, and bringing that country to life and.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Talking about country.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You actually lived overseas for majority of your career, twenty
years overseas as a foreign correspondent. I used to see
you on the news and my dad said, he's a blackfellow.
And when you came back to Australia in twenty seventeen,
(06:00):
you was part of a debate, a race debate, and
that video went viral. If you have not watched the
Australian Dream Speech, it's on YouTube. I refer to it
a lot. It's part of Black Card's pre reading. You
share the love of the country. You love, a sun
burnt country, a land of sweeping planes. I grew up
(06:23):
on that country. My people were shot on that country.
I know your speech of by heart. Yes, But what
I want to ask you is when you came back
from twenty years overseas, had anything changed in your eyes
in terms of you know the situation.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
That's a really good question, because I think in many
ways i'd changed. You know, I'd been away from Australia
for twenty years. I lived in London, New York, Hong Kong, Beijing,
Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Islamabad, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and I'd reported from
more than eighty countries, and I got to experience Australia
(07:12):
outside of Australia. I got to experience living as a
human being in the world in a way that I'd
never been able to experience my own country. In Australia,
I always felt as if this was not a place
that I could belong. And it was only looking back
at Australia that I was able to find a language
(07:34):
to imagine and be able to speak my country to myself,
if that makes sense. I found Australia by not being
in Australia. So when I came back, I looked at
this country again with new eyes. It wasn't the eyes
of a Worrajurie boy growing up on the inside of
this country, always feeling other people staring at us. I
(07:57):
could look back at this country now and see it
very clearly. If I had spent all my time in
the Middle East, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Pakistan, in China.
If I'd looked at people suffering in other parts of
the world and I came back to this country, which
tells the world that we're a democracy, and we're free,
(08:21):
and we're prosperous, and we're tolerant and we're multicultural, I
then have to ask myself, why are we failing my people?
If Australia is all of those things? Why do my
people die young? Why do my people locked up in
the numbers that we're locked up in. Why do our
kids not have a chance. So, on the one hand,
(08:41):
Australia may be able to measure some improvement.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We're sitting here today.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
There are more Aboriginal university graduates, more Aboriginal politicians, more
Aboriginal businesses, but what.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Has actually changed very little structurally.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So when I came to give that speech, wanted to
take the dream of Australia, the idea of Australia, and
turn that on its head and say what does it
look like when you come from the other side of
the dream and living outside of this country gave me
the words, the language, and the vision.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
To be able to see this country more clearly.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I absolutely love the way you describe this country. And
I am speaking on behalf of thousands of peoples that
have done Black Card training that they say that you
just your words.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Are so eloquent.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You're getting across a very important message, but in a
very eloquently way that makes and I've seen it from
my own eyes, makes.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Grown men cry. So it's touching.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And I think that's what you wanted to do, is
you wanted to get people to.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Feel first and foremost Mandanara. Our people are people of love.
You don't survive in this country for tens of thousands
of years, forever, as long as humanity has existed on
this land, it has been us. You don't survive here
forever without love. Our people don't survive two hundred years
(10:21):
of invasion and colonization and suffering without love. Our people
could not find the strength to go on and to
fight for a better Australia without love. Our people have
loved Australians when they have not had love for us.
So everything I speak comes from a position of love.
(10:43):
We have a word in Warajurijinjamara Jinjamara means respect, but
It means to respect even when those don't respect you.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It means the respect that comes from.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Knowing where you are, the country that you are from,
what is given birth to us, our relationship with God,
our relationship with our land, our relationship with our ancestors.
If we know who we are, if we know where
we are, we have the ability to build a better country.
So people often hear us speak these words and speak
(11:20):
these hard truths and become very defensive. They want to
block these things out. They want to accuse us of
attacking Australia. Nothing could be further from the truth. James Bordwin,
the great black American writer, said, I love America so much.
That's why I have the right to criticize it. I
(11:40):
love this country so much that I have the right
to criticize it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And by criticizing and writing books, it has also cost
what hasn't cost you your career. You've chosen to walk
away from a job that I could see watching intense.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Sometimes I think I could never do that as a job.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
But I heard a lot of people say that you
are the best hosts on Q and A, And before
you know it, you're not there.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, you're not on that show, but We've still got you.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And that's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately.
Is Yeah, going home. I heard you've gone back home
to be a country.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, what have you been up to?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
We haven't seen you, but what have you been up to?
And is there anything that you want to share with
our listeners and viewers.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
I've been reading and thinking and writing a lot. I've
been back on my country a lot. I've been spending
time with my family. I've been surrounding myself with my people.
I've been surrounding myself with people of love. I've been
surrounding myself with people who support me. We have the
right to say no. We have the right to say
(12:50):
no to the abuse that we receive. We have the
right to say no, I will not participate in this.
And we have the right to be who we are,
to be who we.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Are in this country.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And I've been reclaiming that, reclaiming the right to be
who I am.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know, I've spent forty years in journalism.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Having to be something else, having to live in a
world and work in a business that was not designed
for me, for us. There were no other Aboriginal people
when I came into the newsroom. There were no other
Aboriginal people working in Parliament House when I worked there
as a political reporter. When I went overseas as a
foreign correspondent, there were no Aboriginal people.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But I carried with me my own people.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
I carried with me your father Tiger, who busted down
the doors and took our voices onto the airwaves. I
took the people like John Ufong and Aboriginal journalists who
wrote for the Australian.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Newspaper when there was no one else doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know, I have struggled to carve out a place
for myself, but I had to also accept that sometimes
in spite of all the effort, in spite of all
the hard work, in spite of all the success, sometimes
it's still not a place for us. And the media
right now is not a place for me. And I
don't want to participate in a media that can do
(14:14):
so much damage to us and repeatedly does damage to
our people. I want to imagine a media that can
build a better country, not tear down the country, that
can bring.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
People together, not keep people apart. And that's what I
want to work towards.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
If I work in the media in the future, it
will be to build things, not to bring things down.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I want to end on a really positive note and say,
for a lot of our mob that are still working
in mainstream media, as the only Aboriginal or touch on
a person in those newsrooms, what would you say to them?
They're still there, they haven't given up. What would some
(15:04):
of your advice be to them, because you've had forty
years at it.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, you know, my advice would be to know that
it's hard. It is always going to be hard. I
don't need to tell you Mondanara. You know how hard
it can be. You know the struggle of your parents.
You know the struggle of your grandparents and your great grandparents,
the struggle of your family, the struggle to build your business,
(15:29):
and you have worked to make not just our community better,
but our country better, our country better. It's hard and
it's always going to be hard. We have to be
not just twice as good, but ten times as good.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I decided when I came.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Into journalism that I would work harder, arrive earlier, stay later,
read more. I would be better than everybody else. I
would not fail because of a lack of effort. I
would not because of a lack of determination. And I
would every day count my blessings that I am where
(16:08):
my ancestors have put me. So I would say to people,
it's going to be tough, but we come from tough
people and we can tough it out. And to remember this,
there is always a place for us and always a
place for.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Us to be us.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Don't sacrifice who you are for someone else's idea of success.
I have always, always, always strive to be who I am.
When I was in New York, I was a borrajury person.
When I was in London, I was a b rajury person.
When I was in Jerusalem or Beijing or Islamabad or
(16:47):
Pyeongyang or Soul or Tokyo or any of the places
that I've lived and worked, I've been a birajury person.
We have the right to be who we are in
the world.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh my goodness, if that's not the best way to
finish our yarn, I just want to say Stan, and
I've said it to you many many times, but thank you,
thank you very much for still being here, for still
being deadly, for still inspiring our mob to be the
(17:19):
best that we can be. And just in terms of
this country. This country is a better country because people
like you that write books and criticize it and speak
about it. You keep doing what you do, and I
can tell you now I hope that my children and
your grandchildren live in a much more united and reconciled Australia.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
And here I just say, you know, I want to
say thank you to all of our orders.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I want to say thank you to my parents.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I want to say thank you to my grandparents and
great grandparents and those people who have sacrificed so much
for us to be here. And I want to say
thank you to you for all that you do, and
thank you to your family for all your family has
done in never flinching, never flinching from the five.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Thank you, Thank you sir.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
What an amazing, what an amazing opportunity for us to
be sitting here in this room, to have you for
an extra half hour, but also for our listeners and
viewers of Black Magical, my podcast. I know that you've
been in for a treat, so I hope you've enjoyed
this episode.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Until next time, Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please
visit our show notes in the episode description, A big
shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who
continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Your feedback means the world.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You can rate and review the podcast us on Apple
and Spotify, or even head to our socials and YouTube
channel and drop us a line.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis.
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