September 30, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast, I sit down with Ruby Heard, a proud descendant of the Jaru and Gija peoples and founder of Alinga Energy Consulting. Ruby shares her journey into electrical engineering and how a decision at sixteen to “save the world” set her on a path from Hanging Rock, Victoria, to global projects in Silicon Valley and refugee camps in Ethiopia.
We yarn about her role on the First Nations Clean Energy Network steering committee, the push to ensure mob are in the driver’s seat of Australia’s renewable energy transition, and the successes of community-led clean energy projects already underway. Ruby also speaks about the barriers communities face in accessing reliable and affordable power, the reality of prepaid “power cards” in remote areas, and the opportunities to create lasting change through policy, education, and Indigenous leadership.
This conversation is both inspiring and practical—showing what’s possible when cultural knowledge and engineering expertise come together to build a just energy future.
Resources & Links
Alinga Energy Consulting:
https://www.alinga.com.au
First Nations Clean Energy Network:
https://www.firstnationscleanenergy.org.au
Engineers Without Borders Australia:
https://ewb.org.au
Engineers Australia – 100 Engineers Making a Difference:
https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black Cast nine our voices. Welcome to the Black Magic
Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. Welcome to another amazing episode
here on beautiful Kubbycubby Country the Clean Energy Network. But
(00:27):
get this, First Nations Clean Energy Network gathering is happening
like fifteen minutes down the road for me. So what
an amazing opportunity to come down the road here on
the Sunshine Couras. If you don't know where Kubbycubby Country is,
we're at the overtok Twin Waters. Thank you for joining,
especially if you're on YouTube. Ruby, my sister, thank you
(00:49):
for coming in to our little studio here, little makeshift
studio to share your story and just have a yarn.
I was told by another brother here from another mother
that I needed a yarn with you. So Michael, well,
thank you for the referral rebrief you don't mind, just
for our listeners and viewers on YouTube. Do you want
(01:10):
to share a little bit about yourself? You might start
with your name, your mob, and a little bit about
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, so thanks so much for having me. I'm an
electrical engineer. My family, I'm a descendant of the jar
U and Gidja peoples of the Kimberly Western Australia.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
But I was actually.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Born in Victoria and now find myself living in beautiful
sunny Queensland up in Rockhampton, where I've also got some
lovely family connections to make me feel very welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
And yeah, I've been working in the.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Clean energy space for the last maybe nine years over
in the US and here in Australia for the last
seven years.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I mean running my own company.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
A Linger Energy Consulting and basically putting all of my
energy and my efforts into the renewer bleantergy space and
figuring out how we can get benefits and participation to
mob So Alinga means it's the Sun goddess basically, so
I wanted to pay respect to the Sun. It's where
all of our energy comes from, whether it's it's wind,
(02:17):
you know, look into wind. Wind is generated by heat differentials.
It's all about the Sun.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
We're using solar power.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
At the end of the day, every bit of energy
that's on this planet comes from our beautiful Sun.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I love that. I only in the last kind of
ten years of delivering training and supporting a lot of clients,
and some of them more recently are directly in this
space in terms of big renewable energy companies that are
looking for like cultural capability, skills and an uplift to
(02:52):
be able to better engage with not just our mob
in terms of First Nations peoples, but predominantly traditional owners
right who are the cultural authority for their country. And
we're trying to teach people how to operate on Aboriginal terms,
but when they're in these communities that they're operating on
(03:13):
their terms in that community, can you share a little
bit about maybe some of the work that you've done
or you're doing at the moment, so our listeners can
kind of get a feel for the clean energy space
for people that are not kind of up to date
with renewables and sustainable ESG goals and a lot of
things that some of our mob and even non Aboriginal
(03:35):
people just everyday people are not too sure about or
they're just not educated about this very important topic.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Absolutely, So it wasn't always the case that we were
a part of this conversation, and myself and some others,
particularly Karina Nolan from Original Power, realized that we were
about to be left behind on another big economic opportunity.
So the resources boom happened without us, and we've seen
(04:02):
minimal benefits from that, and we didn't want that to
happen again with the renewable energy space. And so in
twenty twenty one, really pushed by Karna, was the formation
of the First Nation's Clean Energy Network. So I've been
engaged since then. I'm on the steering committee of the network.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And we basically have taken this thing big. So we
took it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
From us not really not having any seat at the table,
not being part of the conversation, to now being us
to speak at every single conference. Every energy conference has
sessions around First Nations and traditional owners and negotiation and
every part of the energy transition and how it affects
us and how it can benefit us and how we
(04:45):
can actually get in the driver's seat of this. And
that really is like you know, there's so much of
that was driven by the formation of the network. So
we're a member based organization and we're really trying to
do things for community, and so we're working across multiple
layers directly with community, giving them information and education so
(05:08):
that they know how to negotiate with these companies. They
know they're informed. We're working with industry setting standards for
this is how we expect you to come into our
communities and work with them. And finally, with government doing
tons of work around policy, how do we change policy
to make sure that there is a more supportive environment
(05:30):
for us to participate.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
What some of the successes so far that you've seen
in just a short space of time.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, like I said, being part of the conversation is
in itself an amazing success. We're now seeing over twenty
First Nations led clean energy projects from everything from concept
and development stage through to constructed, so that is a
massive win.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
We're seeing the educational.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Programs that are being rolled out by the network, So
we have every year been taking around thirty Indigenous people
from around the country, putting them through a week of
intensive training to become the next energy leaders. So now
there's so much more about there who have the information
to take back to their communities.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You're telling me about some media training that you got
given as part of this program. Can you share a
little bit about the Was it the power?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So that's the power makers the power Yeah. So we're
teaching them about energy, teaching them about how electricity works
in Australia, how the markets, work how their small community
might be able to look to renewable energy either to
create a more resilient power system for themselves, work on
their energy security, reduce their energy costs.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Because these costs are quite enormous for mob, especially in
rural and remote and very remote parts of this country.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Absolutely, it's a huge part of the conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And so Karna's organization, Original Power, was originally focused on
on advocacy and human rights and that sort of thing,
and she realized how critical energy was to ensuring that
we were healthy, that we had access to communications and
all of these modern conveniences. That mob deserved to have
(07:20):
access to. Energy is a huge part of that, and
I think one of the most important aspects of it
being we've got a lot of people in the top
end living in substandard housing.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
The climate is extreme.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Up there, and they need air conditioning, and they're being
subjected to prepayment meters which are cutting them off and
leaving them in you know, un air conditions.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Way they get these cards, don't they. I've got some
of our mob that sometimes ask us to top up
a card. Yeah, I'm sure cre paid tell us about
these cards because a lot of people in probably Melbourne,
Brisbane and Sydney would not have a clue that this
is this is the reality for especially the most vulnerable
(08:04):
and marginalized populations in this country, which are Aboriginal people.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, a lot of people in the energy industry are
not aware of these power cards.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
So some of our.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Communities literally need to go and pick up a physical voucher,
just like an old prepaid phone, pick up a physical
voucher to go and plug that into their met to
have access to power. And when that credit runs out,
their power disconnects. And so you can imagine if you're
living out of town, how far you might have to
drive at a time that's.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Very inconvenient to you.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Maybe the shop's not open, maybe it's Sunday and the
shops closed.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So we've got mob.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Walking around to family and neighbors saying, oh, can I
borrow a power card?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Do you have a spare one? And it's just not something.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That we would ever subject our towns and cities too.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's you know, it's wild that it's unheard of.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, yeah, And it wasn't until I went for a
trip to Gama with AGL. I've been working with AHL
and I'm helping them with their rap because my mob
are from the Hunter Valley. We want to real people.
And there's a connection there with AGL and my uncle,
my deadly uncle lor Perry, who told AGL you should
(09:14):
talk to my niece to do some training, which was
an amazing opportunity. But it was AGL that invited me
to Garma, and it was the mob up there that
we're talking about these cards, and I had no idea
what they were talking about. So yeah, the AGL mob
told me about these cards, and I said, this is crazy.
This is such a rich country, the mining, the resources
(09:37):
that are developed and shipped out of this exported out
of this country, and yet we're still living in substantate housing.
We're still if you think about the Abishal population, half
of us are living below the poverty line. How do
we And like you said, this is all about being
in the driver's seat, not being caught in to have
(10:00):
a look at the program or the gender. Once it
has been set, we're in the driver's seat now and
it's like we've got power, maybe a little bit of power.
We're in the room, we're at the table. Now, what's
some of the challenges that you're seeing or you've experienced
(10:21):
that you want to share with people, especially in the industry.
In the sectors, these big multinational corporations might be the
people that you could speak to.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
There's still a lot of challenges.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Some of them are technical, a lot of them are
financial and economic. So you know, these are the types
of conversations we're having at this conference, bringing the right
parties together. We've got government in the room, with industry,
with community, you know, everybody's here to talk about these
issues and what we might do to overcome them. But yeah,
(10:56):
a huge portion of it is funding issues and.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
The funding funding from who to wear.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So for instance, we have about four million rooftop solar
systems across Australia. How many of those are on mob houses?
Very few of them. Funding is one barrier our households
having the capital, but then there's all these other complex
issues that overlay as well, not owning enough of our houses,
so then you've got to talk to the Aboriginal Housing Corporation.
(11:27):
You know, it just becomes super complex. Something that should
be easy because everybody else is just able to go
and get a solar system, you know, very easily and
get massive benefits from those That's.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What I was thinking, like, is there anything that you
can see is achievable or what's some of the things
that you know that there are solutions now, but we
don't have the right people at the table.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, So I mean we're starting to get the right
people at the table, I guess is the first thing.
So funding organizations like the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. The
last twelve months I've been on the board, you know,
just continuously bringing back First Nations challenges and you know,
how do we get in here and how do we
solve these issues. We've got organizations starting to work together,
(12:14):
Indigenous Business Australia, you know, starting to talk to Arena.
We've got the first Nation's clean energy strategy. So the
Network did a lot of work of the last couple
of years to assist the federal government to go out
and talk to mob and so we went out and
had we had round tables in every single state and territory.
(12:34):
We invited community to come, you know, facilitated them to
get from their remote community to the table with government
and tell them directly what it was that they needed
from the clean energy transition. And from that conversation we've
now got a strategy, we've now got a draft implementation plan, and.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, so there's some things are moving.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
There's some money that's just been announced towards that, Like
this is a ball that's going to keep rolling.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Of course, this is early days if you think about it, right. Yes,
the network was set up five years ago, yes, four years ago. Yeah, yeah,
and here we are today with four hundred and fifty deli.
It's sitting in this room now and that speakers turn
about some of the speakers, who are you excited to
hear or for people to hear?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, it's fantastic when we can bring speakers from community
that government and industry don't usually get exposure to.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, they're not usually in the same room.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That's the beauty of this conference is we make sure
we get community out here so they're able to tell
their stories. So we are, we're doing a lot of
that work, that advocacy piece. We're being the voice for
a lot of our communities. But we also want them
to have a platform and so that's they're the speakers
that I get most excited about, and they're the speakers
that I will hear industry and government going oh well,
(13:53):
that blew me away that we had a young islander girl.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Just speaking a lot from Arab.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yes, and wasn't she amazing impact?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
For goodness, I was like writing down notes, going so
she's a climate advocate for Arab and she's a language
teacher keeping language strong, and her father was one of
the last speakers of the language. And a young josh
underwoman and opened up in language. There was so much
power in that, and she's so far from home. I
(14:25):
just thought to myself, if there was not this opportunity,
we wouldn't know about the challenges that are impacting those islands,
because there's a lot of people in this country that
don't even know where the Torrest Trade Islands are. And
we are a minority and they are a minority within
a minority. So it was really good to hear sister
girl talk about some of the challenges, but not even
(14:48):
a lot of people. You hear a lot of our challenges.
But that's what are some of the successes? What are
you most proud of? What are we looking forward to?
What does this sector have to be able to look
forward to?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think the empower mom peace right, the fact that
people know that they can start their own project. Now
we have created negotiation guides to put in the hands
of communities so that they're not having renewable energy developers
proponents coming to them and they have no idea how
to interact with them. So we're starting to set those
(15:23):
standards from both sides, from industry side expectations to community
side power, information education, and we've just we're just building
the whole thing from the ground up, right, And I
think we've gotten there in time that we're being able
to make changes in real time now and see the.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Benefits start to flow.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So that's what I'm most excited about that I do
see change happening.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And what are you in terms of your background? You know,
you tell me your back on what do you study?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Electrical and electronic engineering Victoria University?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow, how did you get into that? What made you
want to choose that field or course of study?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So I always knew I wanted to save the world.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, so I had.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I grew up in country Victoria, huge connection to the environment,
and I just wanted it to be saved. And so
I remember thinking when I was about fifteen sixteen, you know,
like what can you do as a fifteen sixteen year
old that makes you feel like you're saving the world recycling,
you know, and so I would. I was the one
(16:34):
at the party like going around picking everyone it's cans
up and going, you have to put them in the
recycle bin, guys, because that's all the power I had.
And so I thought, oh, well, maybe I should get
into recycling.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Maybe I should open up a big recycling plant.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And then I thought further and went, yeah, but if
you're using fossil fuels, this stuff I've heard about is
really bad for the planet. So if you using fossil fuels,
you're still harming the environment. It's got to start with
a different.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Way of generating power.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
And so sixteen year old me made that decision and
decided to pursue that. At university, I didn't take the
right classes in year eleven and.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I didn't take physics.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I had to catch up in year twelve when I
realized I'd made a mistake.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So that was a challenge.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But yeah, I got into the COSS with one hundred
and twenty students, five women. I graduated four years later
with about twenty students.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I was gonna say, really quickly, twenty shyeent's how many
were indigenous sue this one.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, but we graduated with about twenty or twenty five
kids and five women.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Five women. Yeah, so my black woman.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Made it through well. In my course, I was actually
the white woman. Why because everyone else was of an
Asian background, and so I was seen as the odd
one out and they said, well, you're the white girl,
what are you doing here? Because it was acceptable for
someone with an a Asian background to be in an
(18:04):
engineering course, and they thought it was very strange to
have someone who's white in the course. So it's like
this very layered racism that I've had to do the game.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, I can't even imagine in terms of just, you know,
going through this study with not many people around you,
like at that time going for university. Who was you
aspiring to be or what was it that was kind
of motivating you to keep going even in your toughest times.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Just an internal north star that.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I kept following and knowing that that was my direction.
Like I've been very fortunate to always since I made
that decision when I was sixteen, never questioned it and
just kept moving in that direction.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
How hard was university for a lot of our young mob?
Now that I want to speak to that listened to
this podcast and middle age mob too, that are actually
either thinking about going to university. Tell us about university,
like even you know the ups and downs. Maybe a
lot of people have got this fear and I was
one of it, and that fear held me back from
(19:15):
going to university into last forty one.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, I would say if you have waited, you have
such a better chance of success because you have so
much more experience and resilience, and so you know, don't
be afraid to go to university later. I actually think
that's a really good option. You'll probably do better, You'll
probably get more out of it because you'll put more
into it because you know you want to be there.
(19:40):
Young people can be very flaky and you know they're
not sure they want to be there. So yeah, and
if you are a young person, look, it can be tough,
especially if you're in a course like electrical engineering. It's
not easy. And you know a lot of people found that.
But look, at the end of the day, I found
it hard to you know, everyone's going to find it hard.
(20:01):
You've got to put in the work. When I first
got there, I had watched too many American movies, and
I thought university was.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Going to be more about parties and fun.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, big party.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah Yeah, not so if you're in engineering. Look, there's
some other courses that have got a bit more flexibility.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, you do have to buckle down if you've you've
picked a very serious subject, but look, it can be
well worth it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Who are your mentors?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, I have a.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Few different mentors in my life, so I do have
some mentors in the electrical engineering space, Indigenous, non indigenous alike.
They bring different things to me. And then I also
have spiritual mentoring to make sure that I am coming
back to who I really am all the time and
not getting sucked too much into the western world and
(20:53):
the workspace.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Oh my sister, it's been an absolute delight to hear
your story and just your passion and the power that
you brought into the room, the power you bring into
this space, into this sector, and just the inspiration for
our younger mob in particular, to see someone like you
(21:15):
that has done a degree in electrical engineering setting up
your own company and leading some of these conversations within
this country. When it comes to policy, when it comes
to government, when it comes to mob setting those creating
guidelines and protocols and opportunities for the industry or the
sector to better engage with our mob. We know that
(21:38):
it's not always going to go right, but at least
people are trying to do the right thing, and they've
got the support and guidance from the First Nation's Clean
Engine Network. My sister, I can't wait to work with you.
I'll be literally reaching out to you to see how
we can support each other with the work that we
both do. Thank you for taking a little bit of
(22:01):
time out of your busy day to join me here
on the Black Magic Woman Podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I hope you've enjoyed. There's Deadly Yan Until next time.
Bye for now. If you'd like any more info on
today's guest, please visit our show notes in the episode description.
A big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and
allies who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review
(22:29):
the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.
We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman
Podcast is produced by Clint Curtis,
Black Cast nine our voices. Welcome to the Black Magic
Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. Welcome to another amazing episode
here on beautiful Kubbycubby Country the Clean Energy Network. But
(00:27):
get this, First Nations Clean Energy Network gathering is happening
like fifteen minutes down the road for me. So what
an amazing opportunity to come down the road here on
the Sunshine Couras. If you don't know where Kubbycubby Country is,
we're at the overtok Twin Waters. Thank you for joining,
especially if you're on YouTube. Ruby, my sister, thank you
(00:49):
for coming in to our little studio here, little makeshift
studio to share your story and just have a yarn.
I was told by another brother here from another mother
that I needed a yarn with you. So Michael, well,
thank you for the referral rebrief you don't mind, just
for our listeners and viewers on YouTube. Do you want
(01:10):
to share a little bit about yourself? You might start
with your name, your mob, and a little bit about
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, so thanks so much for having me. I'm an
electrical engineer. My family, I'm a descendant of the jar
U and Gidja peoples of the Kimberly Western Australia.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
But I was actually.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Born in Victoria and now find myself living in beautiful
sunny Queensland up in Rockhampton, where I've also got some
lovely family connections to make me feel very welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
And yeah, I've been working in the.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Clean energy space for the last maybe nine years over
in the US and here in Australia for the last
seven years.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I mean running my own company.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
A Linger Energy Consulting and basically putting all of my
energy and my efforts into the renewer bleantergy space and
figuring out how we can get benefits and participation to
mob So Alinga means it's the Sun goddess basically, so
I wanted to pay respect to the Sun. It's where
all of our energy comes from, whether it's it's wind,
(02:17):
you know, look into wind. Wind is generated by heat differentials.
It's all about the Sun.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
We're using solar power.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
At the end of the day, every bit of energy
that's on this planet comes from our beautiful Sun.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I love that. I only in the last kind of
ten years of delivering training and supporting a lot of clients,
and some of them more recently are directly in this
space in terms of big renewable energy companies that are
looking for like cultural capability, skills and an uplift to
(02:52):
be able to better engage with not just our mob
in terms of First Nations peoples, but predominantly traditional owners
right who are the cultural authority for their country. And
we're trying to teach people how to operate on Aboriginal terms,
but when they're in these communities that they're operating on
(03:13):
their terms in that community, can you share a little
bit about maybe some of the work that you've done
or you're doing at the moment, so our listeners can
kind of get a feel for the clean energy space
for people that are not kind of up to date
with renewables and sustainable ESG goals and a lot of
things that some of our mob and even non Aboriginal
(03:35):
people just everyday people are not too sure about or
they're just not educated about this very important topic.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Absolutely, So it wasn't always the case that we were
a part of this conversation, and myself and some others,
particularly Karina Nolan from Original Power, realized that we were
about to be left behind on another big economic opportunity.
So the resources boom happened without us, and we've seen
(04:02):
minimal benefits from that, and we didn't want that to
happen again with the renewable energy space. And so in
twenty twenty one, really pushed by Karna, was the formation
of the First Nation's Clean Energy Network. So I've been
engaged since then. I'm on the steering committee of the network.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And we basically have taken this thing big. So we
took it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
From us not really not having any seat at the table,
not being part of the conversation, to now being us
to speak at every single conference. Every energy conference has
sessions around First Nations and traditional owners and negotiation and
every part of the energy transition and how it affects
us and how it can benefit us and how we
(04:45):
can actually get in the driver's seat of this. And
that really is like you know, there's so much of
that was driven by the formation of the network. So
we're a member based organization and we're really trying to
do things for community, and so we're working across multiple
layers directly with community, giving them information and education so
(05:08):
that they know how to negotiate with these companies. They
know they're informed. We're working with industry setting standards for
this is how we expect you to come into our
communities and work with them. And finally, with government doing
tons of work around policy, how do we change policy
to make sure that there is a more supportive environment
(05:30):
for us to participate.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
What some of the successes so far that you've seen
in just a short space of time.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, like I said, being part of the conversation is
in itself an amazing success. We're now seeing over twenty
First Nations led clean energy projects from everything from concept
and development stage through to constructed, so that is a
massive win.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
We're seeing the educational.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Programs that are being rolled out by the network, So
we have every year been taking around thirty Indigenous people
from around the country, putting them through a week of
intensive training to become the next energy leaders. So now
there's so much more about there who have the information
to take back to their communities.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You're telling me about some media training that you got
given as part of this program. Can you share a
little bit about the Was it the power?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So that's the power makers the power Yeah. So we're
teaching them about energy, teaching them about how electricity works
in Australia, how the markets, work how their small community
might be able to look to renewable energy either to
create a more resilient power system for themselves, work on
their energy security, reduce their energy costs.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Because these costs are quite enormous for mob, especially in
rural and remote and very remote parts of this country.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Absolutely, it's a huge part of the conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And so Karna's organization, Original Power, was originally focused on
on advocacy and human rights and that sort of thing,
and she realized how critical energy was to ensuring that
we were healthy, that we had access to communications and
all of these modern conveniences. That mob deserved to have
(07:20):
access to. Energy is a huge part of that, and
I think one of the most important aspects of it
being we've got a lot of people in the top
end living in substandard housing.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
The climate is extreme.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Up there, and they need air conditioning, and they're being
subjected to prepayment meters which are cutting them off and
leaving them in you know, un air conditions.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Way they get these cards, don't they. I've got some
of our mob that sometimes ask us to top up
a card. Yeah, I'm sure cre paid tell us about
these cards because a lot of people in probably Melbourne,
Brisbane and Sydney would not have a clue that this
is this is the reality for especially the most vulnerable
(08:04):
and marginalized populations in this country, which are Aboriginal people.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, a lot of people in the energy industry are
not aware of these power cards.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
So some of our.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Communities literally need to go and pick up a physical voucher,
just like an old prepaid phone, pick up a physical
voucher to go and plug that into their met to
have access to power. And when that credit runs out,
their power disconnects. And so you can imagine if you're
living out of town, how far you might have to
drive at a time that's.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Very inconvenient to you.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Maybe the shop's not open, maybe it's Sunday and the
shops closed.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So we've got mob.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Walking around to family and neighbors saying, oh, can I
borrow a power card?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Do you have a spare one? And it's just not something.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That we would ever subject our towns and cities too.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's you know, it's wild that it's unheard of.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, yeah, And it wasn't until I went for a
trip to Gama with AGL. I've been working with AHL
and I'm helping them with their rap because my mob
are from the Hunter Valley. We want to real people.
And there's a connection there with AGL and my uncle,
my deadly uncle lor Perry, who told AGL you should
(09:14):
talk to my niece to do some training, which was
an amazing opportunity. But it was AGL that invited me
to Garma, and it was the mob up there that
we're talking about these cards, and I had no idea
what they were talking about. So yeah, the AGL mob
told me about these cards, and I said, this is crazy.
This is such a rich country, the mining, the resources
(09:37):
that are developed and shipped out of this exported out
of this country, and yet we're still living in substantate housing.
We're still if you think about the Abishal population, half
of us are living below the poverty line. How do
we And like you said, this is all about being
in the driver's seat, not being caught in to have
(10:00):
a look at the program or the gender. Once it
has been set, we're in the driver's seat now and
it's like we've got power, maybe a little bit of power.
We're in the room, we're at the table. Now, what's
some of the challenges that you're seeing or you've experienced
(10:21):
that you want to share with people, especially in the industry.
In the sectors, these big multinational corporations might be the
people that you could speak to.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
There's still a lot of challenges.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Some of them are technical, a lot of them are
financial and economic. So you know, these are the types
of conversations we're having at this conference, bringing the right
parties together. We've got government in the room, with industry,
with community, you know, everybody's here to talk about these
issues and what we might do to overcome them. But yeah,
(10:56):
a huge portion of it is funding issues and.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
The funding funding from who to wear.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So for instance, we have about four million rooftop solar
systems across Australia. How many of those are on mob houses?
Very few of them. Funding is one barrier our households
having the capital, but then there's all these other complex
issues that overlay as well, not owning enough of our houses,
so then you've got to talk to the Aboriginal Housing Corporation.
(11:27):
You know, it just becomes super complex. Something that should
be easy because everybody else is just able to go
and get a solar system, you know, very easily and
get massive benefits from those That's.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What I was thinking, like, is there anything that you
can see is achievable or what's some of the things
that you know that there are solutions now, but we
don't have the right people at the table.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, So I mean we're starting to get the right
people at the table, I guess is the first thing.
So funding organizations like the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. The
last twelve months I've been on the board, you know,
just continuously bringing back First Nations challenges and you know,
how do we get in here and how do we
solve these issues. We've got organizations starting to work together,
(12:14):
Indigenous Business Australia, you know, starting to talk to Arena.
We've got the first Nation's clean energy strategy. So the
Network did a lot of work of the last couple
of years to assist the federal government to go out
and talk to mob and so we went out and
had we had round tables in every single state and territory.
(12:34):
We invited community to come, you know, facilitated them to
get from their remote community to the table with government
and tell them directly what it was that they needed
from the clean energy transition. And from that conversation we've
now got a strategy, we've now got a draft implementation plan, and.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You know, so there's some things are moving.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
There's some money that's just been announced towards that, Like
this is a ball that's going to keep rolling.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Of course, this is early days if you think about it, right. Yes,
the network was set up five years ago, yes, four years ago. Yeah, yeah,
and here we are today with four hundred and fifty deli.
It's sitting in this room now and that speakers turn
about some of the speakers, who are you excited to
hear or for people to hear?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, it's fantastic when we can bring speakers from community
that government and industry don't usually get exposure to.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, they're not usually in the same room.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That's the beauty of this conference is we make sure
we get community out here so they're able to tell
their stories. So we are, we're doing a lot of
that work, that advocacy piece. We're being the voice for
a lot of our communities. But we also want them
to have a platform and so that's they're the speakers
that I get most excited about, and they're the speakers
that I will hear industry and government going oh well,
(13:53):
that blew me away that we had a young islander girl.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Just speaking a lot from Arab.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yes, and wasn't she amazing impact?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
For goodness, I was like writing down notes, going so
she's a climate advocate for Arab and she's a language
teacher keeping language strong, and her father was one of
the last speakers of the language. And a young josh
underwoman and opened up in language. There was so much
power in that, and she's so far from home. I
(14:25):
just thought to myself, if there was not this opportunity,
we wouldn't know about the challenges that are impacting those islands,
because there's a lot of people in this country that
don't even know where the Torrest Trade Islands are. And
we are a minority and they are a minority within
a minority. So it was really good to hear sister
girl talk about some of the challenges, but not even
(14:48):
a lot of people. You hear a lot of our challenges.
But that's what are some of the successes? What are
you most proud of? What are we looking forward to?
What does this sector have to be able to look
forward to?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think the empower mom peace right, the fact that
people know that they can start their own project. Now
we have created negotiation guides to put in the hands
of communities so that they're not having renewable energy developers
proponents coming to them and they have no idea how
to interact with them. So we're starting to set those
(15:23):
standards from both sides, from industry side expectations to community
side power, information education, and we've just we're just building
the whole thing from the ground up, right, And I
think we've gotten there in time that we're being able
to make changes in real time now and see the.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Benefits start to flow.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So that's what I'm most excited about that I do
see change happening.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And what are you in terms of your background? You know,
you tell me your back on what do you study?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Electrical and electronic engineering Victoria University?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow, how did you get into that? What made you
want to choose that field or course of study?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So I always knew I wanted to save the world.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, so I had.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I grew up in country Victoria, huge connection to the environment,
and I just wanted it to be saved. And so
I remember thinking when I was about fifteen sixteen, you know,
like what can you do as a fifteen sixteen year
old that makes you feel like you're saving the world recycling,
you know, and so I would. I was the one
(16:34):
at the party like going around picking everyone it's cans
up and going, you have to put them in the
recycle bin, guys, because that's all the power I had.
And so I thought, oh, well, maybe I should get
into recycling.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Maybe I should open up a big recycling plant.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And then I thought further and went, yeah, but if
you're using fossil fuels, this stuff I've heard about is
really bad for the planet. So if you using fossil fuels,
you're still harming the environment. It's got to start with
a different.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Way of generating power.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
And so sixteen year old me made that decision and
decided to pursue that. At university, I didn't take the
right classes in year eleven and.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I didn't take physics.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I had to catch up in year twelve when I
realized I'd made a mistake.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So that was a challenge.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But yeah, I got into the COSS with one hundred
and twenty students, five women. I graduated four years later
with about twenty students.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I was gonna say, really quickly, twenty shyeent's how many
were indigenous sue this one.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, but we graduated with about twenty or twenty five
kids and five women.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Five women. Yeah, so my black woman.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Made it through well. In my course, I was actually
the white woman. Why because everyone else was of an
Asian background, and so I was seen as the odd
one out and they said, well, you're the white girl,
what are you doing here? Because it was acceptable for
someone with an a Asian background to be in an
(18:04):
engineering course, and they thought it was very strange to
have someone who's white in the course. So it's like
this very layered racism that I've had to do the game.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, I can't even imagine in terms of just, you know,
going through this study with not many people around you,
like at that time going for university. Who was you
aspiring to be or what was it that was kind
of motivating you to keep going even in your toughest times.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Just an internal north star that.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I kept following and knowing that that was my direction.
Like I've been very fortunate to always since I made
that decision when I was sixteen, never questioned it and
just kept moving in that direction.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
How hard was university for a lot of our young mob?
Now that I want to speak to that listened to
this podcast and middle age mob too, that are actually
either thinking about going to university. Tell us about university,
like even you know the ups and downs. Maybe a
lot of people have got this fear and I was
one of it, and that fear held me back from
(19:15):
going to university into last forty one.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, I would say if you have waited, you have
such a better chance of success because you have so
much more experience and resilience, and so you know, don't
be afraid to go to university later. I actually think
that's a really good option. You'll probably do better, You'll
probably get more out of it because you'll put more
into it because you know you want to be there.
(19:40):
Young people can be very flaky and you know they're
not sure they want to be there. So yeah, and
if you are a young person, look, it can be tough,
especially if you're in a course like electrical engineering. It's
not easy. And you know a lot of people found that.
But look, at the end of the day, I found
it hard to you know, everyone's going to find it hard.
(20:01):
You've got to put in the work. When I first
got there, I had watched too many American movies, and
I thought university was.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Going to be more about parties and fun.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, big party.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah Yeah, not so if you're in engineering. Look, there's
some other courses that have got a bit more flexibility.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You got it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, you do have to buckle down if you've you've
picked a very serious subject, but look, it can be
well worth it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Who are your mentors?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, I have a.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Few different mentors in my life, so I do have
some mentors in the electrical engineering space, Indigenous, non indigenous alike.
They bring different things to me. And then I also
have spiritual mentoring to make sure that I am coming
back to who I really am all the time and
not getting sucked too much into the western world and
(20:53):
the workspace.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Oh my sister, it's been an absolute delight to hear
your story and just your passion and the power that
you brought into the room, the power you bring into
this space, into this sector, and just the inspiration for
our younger mob in particular, to see someone like you
(21:15):
that has done a degree in electrical engineering setting up
your own company and leading some of these conversations within
this country. When it comes to policy, when it comes
to government, when it comes to mob setting those creating
guidelines and protocols and opportunities for the industry or the
sector to better engage with our mob. We know that
(21:38):
it's not always going to go right, but at least
people are trying to do the right thing, and they've
got the support and guidance from the First Nation's Clean
Engine Network. My sister, I can't wait to work with you.
I'll be literally reaching out to you to see how
we can support each other with the work that we
both do. Thank you for taking a little bit of
(22:01):
time out of your busy day to join me here
on the Black Magic Woman Podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I hope you've enjoyed. There's Deadly Yan Until next time.
Bye for now. If you'd like any more info on
today's guest, please visit our show notes in the episode description.
A big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and
allies who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review
(22:29):
the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.
We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman
Podcast is produced by Clint Curtis,
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