May 8, 2025 • 22 mins
In this special episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast, proudly brought to you by NRMA Insurance, Mundanara yarns with Rory Chapman—a proud Wiradjuri/Ngemba man, founder of Embrace Tech, and the trusted IT partner behind BlackCard’s digital transformation. Based on Kabi Kabi Country, Rory shares how his purpose-led tech company supports First Nations organisations across the country with accessible, high-quality IT services.
From growing up around his family’s computer store to launching a culturally grounded tech business that now powers BlackCard’s new eLearning platform, Rory offers powerful insights into cybersecurity, intergenerational wealth, and the role of culture in entrepreneurship. He speaks candidly about the challenges of running a business, staying connected to community, and building a future where more mob thrive in the tech industry.
Whether you're in business, dreaming of it, or simply curious about the intersections of tech, culture, and community—this episode is full of inspiration, strategy, and strength.
🔗 Resources from this episode:
-
Embrace Tech Official Website: https://www.embracetech.au/
-
About Rory Chapman: https://www.embracetech.au/about-us
-
Rory Chapman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorychapman/
-
Welcome to Country – Rory Chapman: https://www.welcometocountry.com/pages/rory-chapman
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
If you enjoyed this episode, please ‘Subscribe’ on Apple Podcasts or ‘Follow’ on your Spotify app and tell your friends and family about us! If you’d like to contact us, please email, info@blackmagicwoman.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal
(00:25):
land and always will be Aboriginal Land. Welcome to the
Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandinara Bails. I am so
pleased that you're here to listen and watch another episode
of the Black Magical Podcast, in particularly the Nroma series
(00:49):
where I get to yarn with three amazing First Nations
business owners and entrepreneurs about everything from business to life
to culture, identity, resilience and even navigating. You know, how
to run businesses and how they've been able to manage
through even uncertain times some of those challenges, trials and tribulation.
(01:12):
So there's a lot in this yard and I can't
wait for you to hear about the IT business that
Black Card users, which is embraced tech. But before we
get into the business, Rory, well, first, thank you for
coming up to beautiful Yoga. A terrible country to be
on the podcast from Kabycobby Country. Can you introduce yourself
(01:32):
to our listeners and viewers, so your name, your mob,
even a bit about your community and then we'll get
into the business.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Amamara, good to be here. I am excited to do
this with you. It's yeah. I've been a long time
listener and so excited to be on here and share
a little bit about my story. I'm a Roger Yamba man.
I'm from the Beats and Folk and magic families. So
my family, my mum even grew up at Laurena, so
(02:03):
family and history from around that area on my father's
side of my family, second generation English, so you know
you got some really good connections back into England and
Scotland as well. Yeah, so that's a bit about me
and I now live on beautiful Copy Copy Country with
my one wife and four kids. Yeah, so I really
(02:26):
enjoy living up there, I am. Yeah. You know, it's
obviously such a beautiful country out there, and you're really
grateful to be able to live and work up there.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Dead how did you fall into business like Embrace Tech?
Tell us about the business.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's something that I've sort of almost come back to
rather than fallen into you know, I've been a business
owner once before and done a very similar business providing
IT support to other businesses, And this time around, the
main difference was that I really, you know, I'm getting
a little bit older in life now and wanted to
have a bit more purpose about the work that I do.
(03:03):
And so this time around with my business, are only
people that I support that provide r T support or
other MOB organizations. Yeah, it was really something that I'm
passionate about about seeing MOB get access to really good
art quality IT support and not be ripped off. You know,
I see too often, you know, other MOB organizations just
paying through the nose for IT support and you know,
(03:24):
and not getting the kind of support that helps their
businesses to grow totally.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And when you think about tech for people, especially the
younger mob listening to this, Yahn, what what is the
tech world like? What is it like to navigate the
tech industry as an indigenous business owner?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, it's super exciting. I could not encourage anyone more
to get into the tech industry, you know, like we
need to see heaps more MOB in the space, and
see heaps more MOB as business owners in the IT
space as well, Like there is so much opportunity and
so much opportunity anywhere remotely. You know, you don't need
(04:07):
to be in a city, you can be on country,
you know, And so I would really encourage as many
people as possible to jump in. You know. Like my
history is, my parents actually owned a computer store, so
I was exposed to it at a very young age,
you know, and I guess it was. It was quite
transformational for me because not only did I see my
(04:28):
parents running a business for the first time and being
and seeing success for the first time as well. That
really lifted our family out of poverty, but it also,
you know, it also exposed me to the excitement of
the technology industry and the opportunities that there are in
that space. And you know, now I'm here, almost thirty
years later, still working in the space and making great
(04:50):
money and really helping people, and so you know, i'd encourage, Yeah,
have a go at it. It's really good. It's great fun.
You get to work with people, you get to help people.
It's a really nice industry to work.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And what kind of training education have you had to
do to be able to run a successful tech business?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, it's that's it's an interesting one. I'm really it's
something I'm quite passionate about the education piece because I
one of the privileges I've had in my life is
education's always been easy for me, It's been accessible. I've
found success reasonably easy with education, and so I'm lucky
in that I've probably had more opportunity in education, you know, space,
(05:36):
you know, the opportunity to educate myself more than others.
And so I certainly recognize that's a privilege that I've had.
But I would strongly recommend anyone get, you know, chase
sort of qualifications and an education if they get a
chance to. For me, you know, I left school and
I didn't go to university for probably five to ten
(05:59):
years before I did my Bachelor of it. But I've
since done a Master of Business Administration and a Master's
of Cybersecurity, also done you know, my a c D
training as well, so you know, done lots of education
as a flow on from that. But I did it
all while I was working, So at no point did
I stop being a computer nerd. I kept doing that
(06:20):
and just did part time study on the side, so
and all I did I did distance learning as well,
so there's no again, no reason why. You know, as
a you know, as mob living out in country somewhere,
you know, like you could still get access to those
opportunities as well. So I definitely would encourage people to
chase it. It's a tough space, Like you and I
were talking about walking up here. You know, business and
(06:42):
business ain't easy, and you know, like I look after
a lot of mob businesses, no one's no one's having
an easy time of it. You know, like running a
business is not easy. You know, don't go thinking that
that's it's an easy way to make money because that
it's a it's hard work, but it's also rewarding. It's
rewarding so much. You know, you get so much freedom
(07:02):
out of it. You do, if you do it well,
you do generate a heap of wealth for yourself and
your employees and the people that you help and your community.
You know, like's this so much opportunity that So I
would definitely recommend people have a guard it if they
if it's something they want to do. But yeah, don't
don't go into it thinking it's going to be easy.
That's for sure. It's it's it's fun and hard, but
(07:23):
it's but yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It's such a good piece of advice, especially for some
of our younger generation that are looking to start their
own business, or even some of our deadly change makers
that are doing deadly things in their community but not
necessarily thinking about being in business. Being IT savvy or
tech savy is a good skill to have, especially the
(07:45):
world that we're living in today, and risk is everywhere,
especially in business, but with it with fraud and scamming
and people just trying to take advantage of vulnerable people,
elderly people.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, I've been in that situation.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
My husband's been that disgressed me with his phone calls
all the time. So, you know, as a tech business,
how do you navigate risk?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's an interesting one, so topical at the moment too,
you know, Like I think businesses, and I mean even
big businesses now are really starting to recognize how much
risk there is involved in it and cybersecurity. And I
did mention I've got that master's in cybersecurity, which has
meant that I've been put on a few boards to
help provide them with that high level advice around it
risk and cybersecurity risk, and like it's one of those
(08:35):
things that you cannot you know, you can't just think
it's going to go away, like unless you deal with it,
it won't. You're not. Unless you address it, it's going
to be. The risk is going to be there. You
can't just put your head and extand and just think
that it's going to all be okay, because sooner or
later it won't be. And when when it goes wrong,
it gets ugly real quick. You know, it's super important
(08:57):
to have the right advice as well, like the right
people supporting you. You're never going to know everything about
every topic. It doesn't matter whether you're talking financial risk
or technology risk or anything else. You know, you need
to have the right advisors, so you know, find find
someone you trust and that can give you good advice
on it. But yeah, especially small business owners, often I
(09:19):
think that the tools that they use, the technology tools
that they use, will protect them, but it's not always
the case. Often the default settings on some of these
tools leave you exposed or unduly exposed to extra risk.
So you know, like it's it's not those those providers
of that technology, it's not not always there. You know
there you know, you know, they're prerogative to actually create
(09:43):
it as secure as possible for you for the way
you use it. So it's important to actually make sure
you set these things up right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And that's why you get someone like you to get
that advice from. We don't have to know everything, and
we might not have the time, that the money, or
even the passion to learn it or go and study
(10:11):
a degree in it. So you look for people around
you that you can bring into your business, like Embraced Tech,
which I've been lucky to know that you exist.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We're putting that on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think we're looking on LinkedIn, and you know, people
started emailing or referring business. So for mob, especially mob
that are going into business, LinkedIn is a really good
tool networking, advertising, building a community. You know, there's already
blackfellows and we grow up in our community. But surrounding
(10:44):
yourself with people in business and entrepreneurial thinkers and change
makers really does kind of not set you up, but
the inspiration you get inspired and you get motivated and
you start thinking, oh, look what they're doing. So having
opportunities to engage with other business owners, I would say,
(11:07):
especially in the Indigenous business community, has kept me.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Passionate.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Knowing that they're doing deadly things or knowing that they're
now using you and I can refer business. It's all
about how do we support each other, especially within the
culture that we've grown up in. And I want to
add to the culture, our culture. What keeps you connected
to your culture whilst running a business.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, you know, like I was lucky growing up. My
mum was the CEO of the local land council, so
I got to hang out there after school and they
were my first it support customer, second art support customers,
the local ams. So you know, I've been sort of
doing that it support for mob for a long long time.
(11:56):
But just hanging out in those spaces and you know,
Arnie's and uncles coming in to pay their rant or
to come in for meetings and all the rest of that,
and just having those ad hockey arms, you know, and
just you know, learning about everything, you know, just even
their life, you know, and all what's the struggle they're having,
the successes they have, and you know, it's it's that's
(12:16):
you know what has really connected me to culture. And
that didn't happen in my country. That was in down
in Grafton, and so it was it wasn't in my
country but it was it still gave me a strong
connection to you know, to the lovely people down there
and the people that my mum still works with today.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Can you be then part of that community.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, that's right exactly. And so you know, a lot
of strong ties in because of that. And I guess
my mum's always kept me grounded to community. You know,
she still is getting me dragged me all around the
countryside helping her do it work for different communities. I've
been out at the Jabbulin community helping them set up
a WiFi out there, free community WiFi for them all
out there. So so yeah, it's you know, that's that's
(12:56):
that's a good piece. It was interesting like moving up
to the Sunshine Coase because you know, I just lived
in Grafton and had good connections to me there. Moved
up to the Sunshine Coast and part of this transition
for me going back to working for MOB was to
get more involved in community and be more involved with
MOB because I lost it going to the Sunshine Coasts.
(13:17):
For all it's for all good things. On the Sunshine Coast,
it's a white, affluent bubble and and my kids were
growing up in that and didn't have that connection. And
as they, as my kids started getting older, I realized
I'd sort of taken that away from them, or not
given that opportunity that you know, that same opportunity that
I had. And so I wanted to demonstrate that to
my kids and actually show them that, you know, we
(13:39):
all should be doing as you know, as mob. You know,
we all have a responsibility to actually keep involved in
community and keep supporting and uplifting each other and making
sure that our culture stays strong.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And are your kids involved in the business.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, they are, Yeah, yeah, of course, you know, it's
always a fairly business, isn't it, you know. And so
I've got my oldest son's nineteen now, and so he's
helping out quite a bit. And even my daughter, you know,
she helps out as well. So yeah, you know, and
even you know, my son he's you know, he was
the ended up being the Indigenous leader of his school.
He's learned heaps of language, which I'm really proud of,
(14:12):
and you know, talks, you know, as fluently as you
can when you've sort of lost language, like you know,
our mob has. And so but yeah, it's really nice
to sort of see that I've been able to reverse
that trend and give that opportunity for my kids to
sort of come back into culture as well.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And what messages or ye messages of strength would you
pass on to people that are listening to this yarn
about being in business and positive messages? What would you
what would you share?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I reckon, I think it's really empowering, you know,
like it's it's gives you the freedom to make the
choices you want to make about your life. You know,
I spent I've spent quite a lot of time, you know,
chasing different careers and trying to find jobs that I wanted,
and I'm thinking, you know, I wanted a better job
(15:03):
than I had. And the reality is is if you
build your own business, you can build the job that
you want. You can actually create the job that you want,
and you get the work that you want. You know,
and you can do that. You know, you get to
choose who you work for. You know, you don't have
to be you know, making more money for some big
fat cut in the corporate office somewhere. You can actually
(15:25):
be like me and be just working for mob. You know,
if that's the choice you want to make, you can
do it. If you want to do something else, you
can do it too, you know, and there's just the
opportunities are limitless. And you know, one of the beautiful
things about Australia is we do have that opportunity to
start businesses and you know, do whatever we like with that.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well, participate in the economy right and start looking at.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Creating intergenerational wealth.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And these are kind of words and topics that a
lot of mob have never heard before, Like what does
that mean? Creating into generational wealth? You know, setting up
the next generation to be able to participate in the
economy and not struggling as much or not having they'll
still have challenges.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It's got to be easy. What's some of your.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Key lessons and reflections about your journey so far in business.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think one of the things that I kind of
always try and ground myself with is that, and it
might be because I'm just a bit cynical about the
whole capitalism thing. Is about this not having to go
at the speed that society expects you to go out
with your business. You know, like you get to set
the pace. You don't have to grow at a million
miles an hour. You don't have to you know, quickly,
(16:43):
put on staff, quickly, get customers quickly, quickly, quickly make
more money. You know, I think it's important to stay
a little bit more grounded to that, a little bit
true to our people and you know, and you know,
working together with country. You know, capitalism that doesn't necessarily
work well supporting country. We know that, it's so obvious
(17:04):
when we look around the world today. So I think,
you know, not necessarily getting you know, worked into this
hype cycle of having to grow and grow really fast
and letting it, letting it go at a pace that
suits you and your business and and yeah, and just
and letting it grow a little bit more organically deadly.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And there's a lot of mob in tech already.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Is there any other businesses that you'd love to give
a shout out to, or any other deadly young people
that you can see that are coming through the ranks,
or even to some of the deadly businesses that you support,
who are they like Let some of our listeners know
who they can potentially go and engage with and build
those relationships and keep supporting the growth of the indigenous
(17:48):
business sector here in Australia.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, yeah, obviously get to work with you guys, which
is awesome. But I you know, I think one of
the real passionate places that I get to do work
in is is some of these organizations around Australia that
are helping to grow the indigenous business sector. So earlier
on today I was over at q IBN, which is
cool seeing that finally, you know, building up again.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
The Queensland and Business Network. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Cool, seeing those guys building a building that back up.
I work a lot with Tramby College down in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Which I was there yesterday.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, yesterday and got to meet my staff, remember Grant. Yeah,
and so you know work and then also Impact North
up in Darwin. You know, some of these organizations are
really helping bubble up these indigenous businesses and giving them
opportunities to actually you know, learn about running a business
and avoid making some of the mistakes and avoid some
(18:42):
of the pitfalls that happened to a lot of us,
and just giving us a safe space to come together
and work and collaborate, which I think is really fantastic.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Look, Rory, why are you here while I've got you
on my show putting my black card hat on my
black magic woman hat.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I just want to say thank.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
You because the very first time running a business and
thirteen years into business, we decided to take a leap
of faith into the online world of developing an e learn,
which you know, I didn't realize how big a project
like that would be and the right platform. So you
(19:19):
supported us and made sure that we did have the
right platform to be able to put the black Cart
online modules or the black Cat e learn online. And
without your advice and support, I don't know whether or
not we would have launched the e learn, or whether
or not we would have had the right platform that
would be suitable to all of our clients. So it's
(19:42):
only a month into launching it and so far, so good.
But all the little tech things in the background and
behind the scene, You've been amazing with up skilling our staff,
my producer Clint, which is also black Card, everything.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
You know, Clint's been able to learn from you as well,
and I've been able to learn a little bit.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And I'm more I'm just so much.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
More interested and curious in trying to understand this foreign
world which is tech and it and online. It's something
I've never been really interested in, but now that I
do have a product online.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I keep thinking now of what else.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Can I do and launching an app maybe and getting
into understanding how you can pivot your business model, how
you can create other revenue streams. So I think that's
important just for other mobs that are listening and to
non averisal people that I listened to this yarn as well.
You might be in this position where you know you
(20:42):
have to look at other ways to bring money in
to keep your business going. So going online was keeping
up with my competitors, but also meeting and demand.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So a lot of our clients are asking do you
have an e learn? Do you have a module online?
I'm like, no, cost too much money.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
But with the right advice and the right people like
yourself supporting us, I reckon we've saved a lot of money.
So thank you for being a big part in the
back ground and in the early days for helping the
black Card e learn launch. And our first big client
was NRMA, which is crazy, so big shout out to NRMA.
Can't thank you enough for the opportunity to amplify first
(21:22):
nations voices that are also business owners and entrepreneurs. So
on that note, Rory, I just want to say thank
you for making the time to come up to beautiful
Ynga Aturable Lands, share your story about the amazing work
that you're doing and the business that you've built Embrace Tech,
and I look forward to the work that we continue
(21:44):
to do into the future.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So thank you, thank you. It's absolute privilege to be
here and have a you on with you about this
and hopefully share some knowledge that other people can take
and run with and hopefully create some more black businesses
because we know how important they are. You know, really
serve such a pivotal place in our community. So thanks
for having.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Too Deadly Look.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I just want to say to everyone listening, I know
that you've enjoyed this Deadly Yard because I have, and
I hope I get to have you back and listen
to another episode or the Black Magic Woman later on.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Until next time, By for now.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please
visit our show notes in the episode description. A big
shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who
continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
The podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line
we'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman
podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal
(00:25):
land and always will be Aboriginal Land. Welcome to the
Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandinara Bails. I am so
pleased that you're here to listen and watch another episode
of the Black Magical Podcast, in particularly the Nroma series
(00:49):
where I get to yarn with three amazing First Nations
business owners and entrepreneurs about everything from business to life
to culture, identity, resilience and even navigating. You know, how
to run businesses and how they've been able to manage
through even uncertain times some of those challenges, trials and tribulation.
(01:12):
So there's a lot in this yard and I can't
wait for you to hear about the IT business that
Black Card users, which is embraced tech. But before we
get into the business, Rory, well, first, thank you for
coming up to beautiful Yoga. A terrible country to be
on the podcast from Kabycobby Country. Can you introduce yourself
(01:32):
to our listeners and viewers, so your name, your mob,
even a bit about your community and then we'll get
into the business.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Amamara, good to be here. I am excited to do
this with you. It's yeah. I've been a long time
listener and so excited to be on here and share
a little bit about my story. I'm a Roger Yamba man.
I'm from the Beats and Folk and magic families. So
my family, my mum even grew up at Laurena, so
(02:03):
family and history from around that area on my father's
side of my family, second generation English, so you know
you got some really good connections back into England and
Scotland as well. Yeah, so that's a bit about me
and I now live on beautiful Copy Copy Country with
my one wife and four kids. Yeah, so I really
(02:26):
enjoy living up there, I am. Yeah. You know, it's
obviously such a beautiful country out there, and you're really
grateful to be able to live and work up there.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Dead how did you fall into business like Embrace Tech?
Tell us about the business.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's something that I've sort of almost come back to
rather than fallen into you know, I've been a business
owner once before and done a very similar business providing
IT support to other businesses, And this time around, the
main difference was that I really, you know, I'm getting
a little bit older in life now and wanted to
have a bit more purpose about the work that I do.
(03:03):
And so this time around with my business, are only
people that I support that provide r T support or
other MOB organizations. Yeah, it was really something that I'm
passionate about about seeing MOB get access to really good
art quality IT support and not be ripped off. You know,
I see too often, you know, other MOB organizations just
paying through the nose for IT support and you know,
(03:24):
and not getting the kind of support that helps their
businesses to grow totally.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And when you think about tech for people, especially the
younger mob listening to this, Yahn, what what is the
tech world like? What is it like to navigate the
tech industry as an indigenous business owner?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, it's super exciting. I could not encourage anyone more
to get into the tech industry, you know, like we
need to see heaps more MOB in the space, and
see heaps more MOB as business owners in the IT
space as well, Like there is so much opportunity and
so much opportunity anywhere remotely. You know, you don't need
(04:07):
to be in a city, you can be on country,
you know, And so I would really encourage as many
people as possible to jump in. You know. Like my
history is, my parents actually owned a computer store, so
I was exposed to it at a very young age,
you know, and I guess it was. It was quite
transformational for me because not only did I see my
(04:28):
parents running a business for the first time and being
and seeing success for the first time as well. That
really lifted our family out of poverty, but it also,
you know, it also exposed me to the excitement of
the technology industry and the opportunities that there are in
that space. And you know, now I'm here, almost thirty
years later, still working in the space and making great
(04:50):
money and really helping people, and so you know, i'd encourage, Yeah,
have a go at it. It's really good. It's great fun.
You get to work with people, you get to help people.
It's a really nice industry to work.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And what kind of training education have you had to
do to be able to run a successful tech business?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, it's that's it's an interesting one. I'm really it's
something I'm quite passionate about the education piece because I
one of the privileges I've had in my life is
education's always been easy for me, It's been accessible. I've
found success reasonably easy with education, and so I'm lucky
in that I've probably had more opportunity in education, you know, space,
(05:36):
you know, the opportunity to educate myself more than others.
And so I certainly recognize that's a privilege that I've had.
But I would strongly recommend anyone get, you know, chase
sort of qualifications and an education if they get a
chance to. For me, you know, I left school and
I didn't go to university for probably five to ten
(05:59):
years before I did my Bachelor of it. But I've
since done a Master of Business Administration and a Master's
of Cybersecurity, also done you know, my a c D
training as well, so you know, done lots of education
as a flow on from that. But I did it
all while I was working, So at no point did
I stop being a computer nerd. I kept doing that
(06:20):
and just did part time study on the side, so
and all I did I did distance learning as well,
so there's no again, no reason why. You know, as
a you know, as mob living out in country somewhere,
you know, like you could still get access to those
opportunities as well. So I definitely would encourage people to
chase it. It's a tough space, Like you and I
were talking about walking up here. You know, business and
(06:42):
business ain't easy, and you know, like I look after
a lot of mob businesses, no one's no one's having
an easy time of it. You know, like running a
business is not easy. You know, don't go thinking that
that's it's an easy way to make money because that
it's a it's hard work, but it's also rewarding. It's
rewarding so much. You know, you get so much freedom
(07:02):
out of it. You do, if you do it well,
you do generate a heap of wealth for yourself and
your employees and the people that you help and your community.
You know, like's this so much opportunity that So I
would definitely recommend people have a guard it if they
if it's something they want to do. But yeah, don't
don't go into it thinking it's going to be easy.
That's for sure. It's it's it's fun and hard, but
(07:23):
it's but yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It's such a good piece of advice, especially for some
of our younger generation that are looking to start their
own business, or even some of our deadly change makers
that are doing deadly things in their community but not
necessarily thinking about being in business. Being IT savvy or
tech savy is a good skill to have, especially the
(07:45):
world that we're living in today, and risk is everywhere,
especially in business, but with it with fraud and scamming
and people just trying to take advantage of vulnerable people,
elderly people.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, I've been in that situation.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
My husband's been that disgressed me with his phone calls
all the time. So, you know, as a tech business,
how do you navigate risk?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's an interesting one, so topical at the moment too,
you know, Like I think businesses, and I mean even
big businesses now are really starting to recognize how much
risk there is involved in it and cybersecurity. And I
did mention I've got that master's in cybersecurity, which has
meant that I've been put on a few boards to
help provide them with that high level advice around it
risk and cybersecurity risk, and like it's one of those
(08:35):
things that you cannot you know, you can't just think
it's going to go away, like unless you deal with it,
it won't. You're not. Unless you address it, it's going
to be. The risk is going to be there. You
can't just put your head and extand and just think
that it's going to all be okay, because sooner or
later it won't be. And when when it goes wrong,
it gets ugly real quick. You know, it's super important
(08:57):
to have the right advice as well, like the right
people supporting you. You're never going to know everything about
every topic. It doesn't matter whether you're talking financial risk
or technology risk or anything else. You know, you need
to have the right advisors, so you know, find find
someone you trust and that can give you good advice
on it. But yeah, especially small business owners, often I
(09:19):
think that the tools that they use, the technology tools
that they use, will protect them, but it's not always
the case. Often the default settings on some of these
tools leave you exposed or unduly exposed to extra risk.
So you know, like it's it's not those those providers
of that technology, it's not not always there. You know
there you know, you know, they're prerogative to actually create
(09:43):
it as secure as possible for you for the way
you use it. So it's important to actually make sure
you set these things up right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And that's why you get someone like you to get
that advice from. We don't have to know everything, and
we might not have the time, that the money, or
even the passion to learn it or go and study
(10:11):
a degree in it. So you look for people around
you that you can bring into your business, like Embraced Tech,
which I've been lucky to know that you exist.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We're putting that on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think we're looking on LinkedIn, and you know, people
started emailing or referring business. So for mob, especially mob
that are going into business, LinkedIn is a really good
tool networking, advertising, building a community. You know, there's already
blackfellows and we grow up in our community. But surrounding
(10:44):
yourself with people in business and entrepreneurial thinkers and change
makers really does kind of not set you up, but
the inspiration you get inspired and you get motivated and
you start thinking, oh, look what they're doing. So having
opportunities to engage with other business owners, I would say,
(11:07):
especially in the Indigenous business community, has kept me.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Passionate.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Knowing that they're doing deadly things or knowing that they're
now using you and I can refer business. It's all
about how do we support each other, especially within the
culture that we've grown up in. And I want to
add to the culture, our culture. What keeps you connected
to your culture whilst running a business.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, you know, like I was lucky growing up. My
mum was the CEO of the local land council, so
I got to hang out there after school and they
were my first it support customer, second art support customers,
the local ams. So you know, I've been sort of
doing that it support for mob for a long long time.
(11:56):
But just hanging out in those spaces and you know,
Arnie's and uncles coming in to pay their rant or
to come in for meetings and all the rest of that,
and just having those ad hockey arms, you know, and
just you know, learning about everything, you know, just even
their life, you know, and all what's the struggle they're having,
the successes they have, and you know, it's it's that's
(12:16):
you know what has really connected me to culture. And
that didn't happen in my country. That was in down
in Grafton, and so it was it wasn't in my
country but it was it still gave me a strong
connection to you know, to the lovely people down there
and the people that my mum still works with today.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Can you be then part of that community.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, that's right exactly. And so you know, a lot
of strong ties in because of that. And I guess
my mum's always kept me grounded to community. You know,
she still is getting me dragged me all around the
countryside helping her do it work for different communities. I've
been out at the Jabbulin community helping them set up
a WiFi out there, free community WiFi for them all
out there. So so yeah, it's you know, that's that's
(12:56):
that's a good piece. It was interesting like moving up
to the Sunshine Coase because you know, I just lived
in Grafton and had good connections to me there. Moved
up to the Sunshine Coast and part of this transition
for me going back to working for MOB was to
get more involved in community and be more involved with
MOB because I lost it going to the Sunshine Coasts.
(13:17):
For all it's for all good things. On the Sunshine Coast,
it's a white, affluent bubble and and my kids were
growing up in that and didn't have that connection. And
as they, as my kids started getting older, I realized
I'd sort of taken that away from them, or not
given that opportunity that you know, that same opportunity that
I had. And so I wanted to demonstrate that to
my kids and actually show them that, you know, we
(13:39):
all should be doing as you know, as mob. You know,
we all have a responsibility to actually keep involved in
community and keep supporting and uplifting each other and making
sure that our culture stays strong.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And are your kids involved in the business.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, they are, Yeah, yeah, of course, you know, it's
always a fairly business, isn't it, you know. And so
I've got my oldest son's nineteen now, and so he's
helping out quite a bit. And even my daughter, you know,
she helps out as well. So yeah, you know, and
even you know, my son he's you know, he was
the ended up being the Indigenous leader of his school.
He's learned heaps of language, which I'm really proud of,
(14:12):
and you know, talks, you know, as fluently as you
can when you've sort of lost language, like you know,
our mob has. And so but yeah, it's really nice
to sort of see that I've been able to reverse
that trend and give that opportunity for my kids to
sort of come back into culture as well.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And what messages or ye messages of strength would you
pass on to people that are listening to this yarn
about being in business and positive messages? What would you
what would you share?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, I reckon, I think it's really empowering, you know,
like it's it's gives you the freedom to make the
choices you want to make about your life. You know,
I spent I've spent quite a lot of time, you know,
chasing different careers and trying to find jobs that I wanted,
and I'm thinking, you know, I wanted a better job
(15:03):
than I had. And the reality is is if you
build your own business, you can build the job that
you want. You can actually create the job that you want,
and you get the work that you want. You know,
and you can do that. You know, you get to
choose who you work for. You know, you don't have
to be you know, making more money for some big
fat cut in the corporate office somewhere. You can actually
(15:25):
be like me and be just working for mob. You know,
if that's the choice you want to make, you can
do it. If you want to do something else, you
can do it too, you know, and there's just the
opportunities are limitless. And you know, one of the beautiful
things about Australia is we do have that opportunity to
start businesses and you know, do whatever we like with that.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well, participate in the economy right and start looking at.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Creating intergenerational wealth.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And these are kind of words and topics that a
lot of mob have never heard before, Like what does
that mean? Creating into generational wealth? You know, setting up
the next generation to be able to participate in the
economy and not struggling as much or not having they'll
still have challenges.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
It's got to be easy. What's some of your.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Key lessons and reflections about your journey so far in business.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think one of the things that I kind of
always try and ground myself with is that, and it
might be because I'm just a bit cynical about the
whole capitalism thing. Is about this not having to go
at the speed that society expects you to go out
with your business. You know, like you get to set
the pace. You don't have to grow at a million
miles an hour. You don't have to you know, quickly,
(16:43):
put on staff, quickly, get customers quickly, quickly, quickly make
more money. You know, I think it's important to stay
a little bit more grounded to that, a little bit
true to our people and you know, and you know,
working together with country. You know, capitalism that doesn't necessarily
work well supporting country. We know that, it's so obvious
(17:04):
when we look around the world today. So I think,
you know, not necessarily getting you know, worked into this
hype cycle of having to grow and grow really fast
and letting it, letting it go at a pace that
suits you and your business and and yeah, and just
and letting it grow a little bit more organically deadly.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And there's a lot of mob in tech already.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Is there any other businesses that you'd love to give
a shout out to, or any other deadly young people
that you can see that are coming through the ranks,
or even to some of the deadly businesses that you support,
who are they like Let some of our listeners know
who they can potentially go and engage with and build
those relationships and keep supporting the growth of the indigenous
(17:48):
business sector here in Australia.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, yeah, obviously get to work with you guys, which
is awesome. But I you know, I think one of
the real passionate places that I get to do work
in is is some of these organizations around Australia that
are helping to grow the indigenous business sector. So earlier
on today I was over at q IBN, which is
cool seeing that finally, you know, building up again.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
The Queensland and Business Network. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Cool, seeing those guys building a building that back up.
I work a lot with Tramby College down in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Which I was there yesterday.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, yesterday and got to meet my staff, remember Grant. Yeah,
and so you know work and then also Impact North
up in Darwin. You know, some of these organizations are
really helping bubble up these indigenous businesses and giving them
opportunities to actually you know, learn about running a business
and avoid making some of the mistakes and avoid some
(18:42):
of the pitfalls that happened to a lot of us,
and just giving us a safe space to come together
and work and collaborate, which I think is really fantastic.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Look, Rory, why are you here while I've got you
on my show putting my black card hat on my
black magic woman hat.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I just want to say thank.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
You because the very first time running a business and
thirteen years into business, we decided to take a leap
of faith into the online world of developing an e learn,
which you know, I didn't realize how big a project
like that would be and the right platform. So you
(19:19):
supported us and made sure that we did have the
right platform to be able to put the black Cart
online modules or the black Cat e learn online. And
without your advice and support, I don't know whether or
not we would have launched the e learn, or whether
or not we would have had the right platform that
would be suitable to all of our clients. So it's
(19:42):
only a month into launching it and so far, so good.
But all the little tech things in the background and
behind the scene, You've been amazing with up skilling our staff,
my producer Clint, which is also black Card, everything.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
You know, Clint's been able to learn from you as well,
and I've been able to learn a little bit.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And I'm more I'm just so much.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
More interested and curious in trying to understand this foreign
world which is tech and it and online. It's something
I've never been really interested in, but now that I
do have a product online.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I keep thinking now of what else.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Can I do and launching an app maybe and getting
into understanding how you can pivot your business model, how
you can create other revenue streams. So I think that's
important just for other mobs that are listening and to
non averisal people that I listened to this yarn as well.
You might be in this position where you know you
(20:42):
have to look at other ways to bring money in
to keep your business going. So going online was keeping
up with my competitors, but also meeting and demand.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So a lot of our clients are asking do you
have an e learn? Do you have a module online?
I'm like, no, cost too much money.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
But with the right advice and the right people like
yourself supporting us, I reckon we've saved a lot of money.
So thank you for being a big part in the
back ground and in the early days for helping the
black Card e learn launch. And our first big client
was NRMA, which is crazy, so big shout out to NRMA.
Can't thank you enough for the opportunity to amplify first
(21:22):
nations voices that are also business owners and entrepreneurs. So
on that note, Rory, I just want to say thank
you for making the time to come up to beautiful
Ynga Aturable Lands, share your story about the amazing work
that you're doing and the business that you've built Embrace Tech,
and I look forward to the work that we continue
(21:44):
to do into the future.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So thank you, thank you. It's absolute privilege to be
here and have a you on with you about this
and hopefully share some knowledge that other people can take
and run with and hopefully create some more black businesses
because we know how important they are. You know, really
serve such a pivotal place in our community. So thanks
for having.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Too Deadly Look.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I just want to say to everyone listening, I know
that you've enjoyed this Deadly Yard because I have, and
I hope I get to have you back and listen
to another episode or the Black Magic Woman later on.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Until next time, By for now.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please
visit our show notes in the episode description. A big
shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who
continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
The podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line
we'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman
podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com