December 10, 2024 • 31 mins
As we approach Christmas, we’re taking time to reflect on the incredible stories shared on the Black Magic Woman Podcast this year. This week, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with my childhood sis, Samala Thakialee Cronin, the powerhouse behind MumRed the Label.
Samala is more than a designer; she’s a storyteller, weaving culture, identity, and resilience into every piece she creates. From using kangaroo sinew and weaving techniques passed down through generations to showcasing her work on international runways, she’s breaking barriers and ensuring our people are not just seen but celebrated.
We talked about her recent achievements, like creating stunning bespoke pieces for Thelma Plum and representing our culture at major events like New York Fashion Week. Samala also shared her powerful reflections on kinship, black matriarchy, and the strength of our mob.
💬 “How can they hear us if they can’t see us?”
This yarn is close to my heart, and I know you’ll feel the same. Samala’s passion and determination are inspiring, and I couldn’t be prouder of the deadly work she’s doing.
Check out the links below for more info about MumRed the Label and how you can support my sista.
Links & Resources:
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black Cast Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal
(00:26):
land and always will be Aboriginal land.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love that about our mob too.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
You know, we might live in a modern context, but
we still operate on our kinship terms of reference, and
you know, try and keep that as strong as possible
and that respect and that good way too. Welcome to
the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to a very exciting episode of the Black Magic
Woman Podcast. I can't wait for you to hear all
about my guest today. This episode has been freaking a
long time and I'm already getting excited. When I say freaking,
I'm excited a long time in the making. I've got
my sister from childhood long time ago, when we were
(01:15):
dancing up at Woodford Festival. So anyone that used to
do Woodford Festival, Malaney Festival, you would have saw not
just this beautiful woman sitting next to me, but also
would have remembered one of our song men as well.
So this episode's going to be special. I can't wait
for you to hear. This is Smala, also known as Mum.
Read the label just flew in from Darwin, from the
(01:38):
Darwin Art Fair also known as DAF. So we're going
to dive all into that. But before we do, my sister,
we are on the beautiful lands, unseated lands of the
cooler Nations here and now I just want to acknowledge
the mob here. I've been here for a couple of days,
you're now living here, and I just can't wait to
(01:59):
get people to hear your story and everything that you've
been doing and what you've actually so over to you,
my sister, the microphone is yours. Tell these fellas who
your moby is, where you grew up a little bit
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh my mom. Thank you, my sister for that beautiful introduction.
My mom.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
My mother's from Fraser Island and Kep Islands, only known
for a very short period of history as Fraser Island.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We call it Gary.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And my dad, like you said, was a strong, staunch
cultural man and he came from Mornington Island in the
golf carpent area. And yeah, we spent a lot of
time together as children, dancing, practicing culture, traveling a lot and.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Just running a mark as kids do.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Red Phone best times Brisbane.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You know, I remember us being at Musgrave Park, my
probably earliest memory, a bit of three years old, and
Uncle Doug Curry was walking around with a bucket full
of oranges that were frozen hand out to us kids
because it was so hot.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But we've been dancing all day. Yeah, good memories.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, so you're literally when I think about you, I
think about all the countries you visited. Right, this is
how I think about you when I when I explained
my sister to people are surround. This girl has been
all around the world. She's met royalty, she's stayed in Paris,
she's been invited to VIP parties, She's represented our people
(03:34):
and culture on the international stage and now going into fashion.
You know our tea Now, Tiger Lily, you better do
a shout out for Tiger Lily. We'll never forget you
for teaching her how to weave. That's her fondest memory
and your little connection with her.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Tiger Lily is my darling. I love her so much.
I love your baby. If you're watching this, Annie has
presents coming for you. I already gave him tomorrow. This
my darling, was inspired by your mama and she's a
rainbow woman, and she actually asked me to kind of
put this on to merch a couple of months ago,
so I had to do it. But my label Mum
(04:18):
Read isn't actually about the printed staff felt. I went
to a runway show about two years ago and I
saw such fire and strength in our people coming down
that runway in a way that had never been represented before.
(04:38):
And it literally I had an emotive response. I started crying.
I sat there and it was black photographers, it was
black models, it was black clothing, it was black brands.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And black stylists, black makeup artists, blacked everything. It was
just blacked out.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It was and it was just like, this is the
beauty of our people. And I think last year was
really difficult for me after having such a very long
history of you know, I have traveled a lot, and
I've had amazing opportunities to meet amazing people around the world,
and all of that has come as a result of
you know, I was fighting for country, And as you know,
(05:15):
I did native title for a long time, so I
was lead applicant on our native title claim for thirteen
years for my family line. And then we got a
successful consent determination in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Big, big congratulations, huge achievement, and still hasn't finished the fight.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Still there, fight's still there.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Actually, Native title claim number two just got registered and
my family put me up on that, So.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Here we go again.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
But I actually did try and step back last year
because the referendum, I feel was very heavy on a
lot of our mob and for me personally, I felt
like we were a part of a conversation that was
drowning our voices out. At the same time it was
supposed to give us one and I came to the conclusion,
(06:06):
how can they hear us if they can't even see us?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And while it.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Was so deadly for me to see all of these
brands and different styles of clothing represented on that runway,
I had noticed when I was sitting there that something
was missing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It was our traditional resources.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Where's the skin, Where's the fur, where's the feathers, where's
the weaving, where's the quill work, where's the shells, like
little bits.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Of adornment, but not actually in the clothes.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And so I decided to challenge myself and see if
I could take the skills that I've learnt over my
lifetime sitting with my old people, learn how to weave
and tie feathers and work the sinew and chew it.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
And when we're talking about sinew, we're talking about kangaroo.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, we're talking about kangaroo.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, the insides of a kangaroo that holds the muscles together.
That sinew. Yeah, so when you ever get kangaroo, mean
it's a bit chewy, that's sinewy.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So Smile is talking about using the sinew from the
room to then tie pieces together. This is definitely for
non mob that have no idea that you're talking about
using animal. But it's not. We don't waste anything.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And so I have three eskis in the back of
my fall drive, once for reptiles, ones for mammals, and
the other ones for birds. So I think it's yeah,
these hands don't mind getting dirty.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm sorry, I know I saw you just trying to
cut that old man gowenna up. Remember we found that going.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You and Peace come in with it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
He was literally got hit. We had to put him
out of his misery.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And I wanted that belly fat a ye.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Had to get the poison.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I didn't have a knife sharp enough.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We couldn't get through well yack. I didn't have a knife,
didn't have.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
The reptiles, birds and mamois.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I love this, so I treat them all. I take
them home, assault them, I wash them. It's like from
an eucalyptus, and then I use them to create these
items of clothing.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That are one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Naturally made from country, or they have been made from
the fractures that exist upon it. So we live in
a fractured nation, and I feel last year those fractures
actually really became quite visible, and out of those fractures
came us. And I don't know where we're going to
(08:41):
go in the future, but I feel like now is
the time for us to be seen, because if we're
going to be heard, we need to be seen, because
they need to see us for all the beauty that
we have.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Your next T shirt right, your next line, your next
print needs to be if you haven't already done this,
and don't copy you fellus. This is trademarked on the show. Besides,
and if you do, copies are comment for you. We'll
see you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I'll get my sister to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
How can they hear us when they can't see us.
That's going to be on a T shirt. Love it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I actually set it to the models at the Country
to catur runway show that we just did last week
up in Dowan. So I showcased with twenty designers from
across the country fifteen piece collection and Country to Cautour
actually as an opportunity for younger models to learn about
the industry and get experience on runways. And we were
(09:39):
asked to address them and explain about our pieces before
they wore them, and I asked them to think about
the thousand generations of women that have birthed for them
to be here today and how they want a thousand
generations down the line of their descendants to feel as
powerful black matriarchs walking on our own land.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And to walk down the runway like that.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And it it was.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It was really emotional.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Actually, I had those young girls come up to me
afterwards and thanked me for they felt it. They felt
it in the pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, they come something they probably never felt before.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Because you know, when we were dancing, when we were young,
you know, and back when we were doing it, it
wasn't like nowadays, Like I really feel like our parents
and our generation and the generation beforehand, our generation has children.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, because it was our parents that did it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
They carved out a space where they made them see us.
They made them see us, and we took our culture
and our song and our dance, and we took it
to places where the reception wasn't always that great. You know,
we weren't actually always met with applause and O, this
is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You know, you didn't always have an audience except.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
For family, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know, they always show up.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
But when when we.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Paint up and we put on our dance gear, for me,
that always felt like a shield, you know, like I'm protected,
like no matter what happens outside in that other world,
I'm walking in my spirit in this moment, and I
am so protected by all my old people. And I
try to put that into the pieces that I create.
And after I yearned with the girls and they did
(11:36):
their first they put the pieces on. It was their
first dress rehearsal, and they walked down the runway. I
had them coming up to me and crying afterwards, saying
that they just felt strong and powerful.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
When they wore it and shielded.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And for me, if I can give that feeling to
these young girls, and they.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Feels and nieces our daughters.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Our future manies, mothers, you know, and culturally, you know,
like when I'm an old girl, they're young girls. They're
going to be my small mums and you know, my
little sisters and my big sisters. That switches the other
way because as we get older, we become younger and
they become older and they got to look after us.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's such a beautiful explanation description of our culture. And
that's what saddens me about this country is that and
we don't have to worry about non apecial people or
white Australians and non Indigenous Australians, but they've missed out
on so much. They've missed out on this amazing gift
(12:42):
that we're still willing to share with.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Them, or constantly trying to share, constantly trying to share. Yeah,
and if people could open their eyes, they could see it.
If they could see it, they'd be able to open
their beinnungs. So that they can hear it.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And then feel it. Yeah, and it would be a
feeling that they've never felt before. A lot of non
abistional people say a lot of white fellows.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Say that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
They don't they don't have this sense of belonging or
they don't feel like they belong anywhere. And I said,
because you've never been welcomed into the country, blackfellows can
give you that sense of belonging that you can only
get from our mob, right from our people from this country.
(13:24):
That's still available, not to everyone, but we're still here.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We gotta come in a good way, and you want
to come in a good way. Yeah, and here.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
In this place the Warren Jerry mob they took about
woman Jenka and it's not greetings. The mob I deliver
training yesterday said oh, yeah, that means hello, And I'm like, well,
actually no. So I had to warn Hunter, Commissioner Hunter
on the podcast and she said to me, it means
to come with purpose. And you know when the people
that you meet are good people and we take them
(13:55):
in and we show them the way and then we
make them part of our community. That's right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And we grew up with an open door policy. That's
exactly in front or open for you know everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Well opened fridge door, open window, someone come through the window.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, that wasn't unusual.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So what are you going to do with this country
to catue our darling out fair? These awards you got
nominated for? Like, what is what's happening now?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Should I rat it all off till I feel like, oh,
it's a bit it's a bit.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Of a It's not an overnight success, all right. You
might have thought, smilas you know, doing this and working
here and running meetings and off back to country. In
the meantime, you're doing thousands of hours of work, like
this is hand sewing beating. I watched you with Tiger Lily,
(14:49):
and you're just how you set your weaving up. You've
got these big things and it's all And I just thought, oh,
I don't have the patience for this. And we're in
Cans on holidays for my fortieth and Tigler just kept
saying to me, take me back to Arnie house. But
it was my birth time. I think we're going to
spend the day together. She didn't want to spend the
day with me. She got more patience than you, She
(15:10):
got way more patience than me. But she she she
was loving every minute of watching you and and learning
from you.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And that's the magic, you know, that's it's She's very
special in that sense. Like I, I sit down with
the kids as much as I can to try and
teach them and pass it on.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And you know, not.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Everybody is a weaver, some of some people don't have
the patience for it. But when you come across a
little girl that is as talented and as deeply enthralled
by it that she sat there with me for hours.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh no, yeah, didn't you sleep over? Tigerly won't sleep
at anyone's house. She's in my bed, still in my
bed at eight, and she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
We swap kids, you took you took my sisters? No
are we? Baby? Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Speaking of nowI though, So I have just I've got
to do a shout out to my little sister because
the last ten days I have spent up on Ladakir
country and that's her country. And so she's a Mills.
She's a Mills, that's right, so and a Junie Mills.
And so yesterday I went and seeing RB and I
dropped off all of my new line because this is
(16:24):
the thing as well.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Just gotta like seriously, I I that's what I'm gonna wear.
I put my laptop in this bag today and I
did have the whale shirt like this whale when you
see your new line.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So my new line was actually meant to come from
a manufacturer, but it was the late delivery, so I
didn't arrive in time, so that my entire collection was
everything handmade, grassroots cultural couture, totally bespoke, handbearded, woven, and
a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Of labor, a lot of love, a lot of labor.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Probably about over the last three months, so I spent
probably about two hundred and fifty hours of just weaving
and beating. I tried to keep account on each piece
that I did, so every piece that I do comes
with story. And I only launched my label in October
last year, so it's been ten months and.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It's been a domino effect.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
So within three days of meat launching the label, I
was invited to Melbourne Fashion Week to showcase on the
Gambi Mara runway. They rang me and they were like,
do you have eight pieces you could show on the
runway next week? And I was like mm hmm, yep,
How you do it, fake it, do you make it? Yeah?
I didn't, but I did buy that next week, and
so I showcased there and amazingly, I had Thelma Plum's
(17:49):
stylists reach out to me, and I then created a
piece for her to where when she performed at Coldplay's
sold out concert in Wa, I saw the pigs. She
just looked absolutely amazing. Shout out to Thalia as well,
you're just divine.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We love you, Thelma, but.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We don't talk about it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And then so not long after that, I was invited
to Global Indigenous Runway with Melbourne Fashion Festival, New York
Fashion Week. The country took a tour Runway and a
few others that I can't talk about just yet. And
I think, like watch your space people as a one
woman show, you know, like it's me. I make everything.
(18:33):
I built my website myself, I do everything myself. And
I was yearning with my mum about it, and I
was just kind of like, you know, I just feel
like some days maybe I'm not worthy to be in
the space. And my mom turned around and just said
to me, Mala, you might feel like you're behind, but
when it comes to you doing this, you've been doing
(18:55):
this for thirty years. You know, you've been ever since
you were a little girl. You've been pulling apart string
and pulling things apart and putting them together and making clothes.
And you might feel like you're behind, but you actually
laps ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
So you just you've got to have faith in yourself
and just let yourself create. Because I've never really had
the time to.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Really sit down.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, I'm always going, and of course, and so just
in this last year, seeing what's come out of that,
it is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And I see you found love.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Oh yes, I did. I found myself a lovely.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Southern really is. I don't need a man. You were
very carefree, case didn't want in a rome in the
country doing you and the next minute loved up, shacked up.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I met him at my runway show. I haven't told
you how I met him. Here everybody gonna find out
how I mad him. I met him at my runway show.
I just finished dress the models and had to put
my dress on because they walked the designers out. So
I went into the model room, I put on my dress,
come out and I'm standing there and I can feel
someone staring at me. You know, well around nothing, I
(20:16):
still feel it. I look around and then I see
this beautiful man standing there in a tuxedo. Mind you,
beautiful black man in a tuxedo old in the ladder way.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You know, did you do? It's just like I looked
at him and he was is this real?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
This cannot be real?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And you know what this means to me, right? I know?
You know how that? Yeah, that's calls out to me
from my childhood.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And anyway, I see this man and he's staring at
me like dead intent. And when a man is looking
at you and he's sleazy, he'll look at you and
he'll kind of do that kind of thing, you know,
raise his eyebrows or whatever, or think when he's got
that whole I'm deadly, or I'll look down and look away,
you know, because they got caught looking at you for
(21:04):
young ones.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, take note, fellows, we know what you do.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
We can read you from a mile away.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, what struck me with him?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
He just swept me off my feet, I guess from
the get go is he did neither.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
He did neither.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
He looked me dead in my eyes, and he walked
straight over to me and he goes my name's Paul Kelly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Literally Paul Kelly.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Paul Kelly, Yes, not the white Paul Kelly, the black
Paul Kelly. Yeah, but they got the same birthday.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Big shout out to Paul Kelly. Yeah to both years on.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
My Runway show because I put his name down on
the door.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I hadn't ringing me up and they were like, are
you bringing Paul Kelly And you're going.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
To keep saying it's the black Paul Kelly. I love this.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Literally, Like when we went because I dressed Emily Watermor
for the Nethasnia's National Indigenous Music Awards, we had the
Fashion Awards and the Music Awards NEMA at.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
The same time, two days apart.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
How good is that? Though, come to Darwin and we
had them all done at the same time. Literally, that's
next year I'm coming.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
You've got to come to Darwin from like the about
the twentieth of July until about the twelfth of August, because.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
When put that date in your diary, all right, twentieth
of July to twelfth of boo, because that's when we
need to.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Be in Darwin's when you need to be in Darwin.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
We will get so many people on this podcast here.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Look Emily, she went and put down because I was
a stylist and addressed her for the event. But Paul
was coming with us, and she put him down her
security and we were having a little giggle on the
way to the event because it was just like they're
going to be like, why is Paul Kelly Vian Emily security?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Oh but yeah, he's He's just a.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Love black humor, right, just black fellows will get things
like that. I love it, So, Emily, what a matter
is coming on this podcast. We're going to do virtues.
Can't get to the same place. She's here Friday, I
leave Wednesday. We're both in Melbourne and we're missing each other.
So sister girl, we've been trying to get this yard happening.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
My daughter asks going to happen? She call me mom.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I love this one.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I love itally my big daughter and a small mummy culturally,
you know, and I love that about our mob too.
You know how we might live in a modern context,
but we still operate on our kinship terms of reference
and you know, dry and keep that as strong as
possible and that respect and that good way too.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Oh my god, Marla, just from I can't stop thinking
of how far you've come. And you probably still think
every day when you when you're that yan with your
mom and you kind of you know, the pressure of
being in business, the pressure just trying to keep your
head above the water in this pretty tumultuous world. This
(23:53):
this this world that we're living in right now. There's
so much uncertainty, so there's even more pressure of being
a being self employed, Like I can't imagine doing everything
right now in this kind of the world we're living
in now is very different to ten years ago. It's
very different from a year ago. And I just hope that,
(24:16):
you know, with our old people guiding us. And my
husband Piece always says us, I've doubted myself at least
maybe once or twice a week. I'll work on something
and say I can't do it. Why have I committed?
And Peace always say to me, they're old people. They're
not going to let you fail. Don't give up, keep going,
(24:38):
keep pushing yourself. This is how far you've come, you know.
And I've got to keep trusting in my old people.
And annie La always said that too, she said, she's
our old people are deadly. Look look how far we've come.
We thank them all the time for our achievements, our success,
the fact that we've got this energy still, we've still
(24:59):
got that fire in our belly.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And that's them.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
They showed us, they taught us, they paved that way
for us, and without them, we wouldn't be here. And
and that.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Is a given.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
But I also have to acknowledge on this podcast right now,
you and your sisters and everything that use have done
for me in my life, I would not be who
I am.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I would not be where I.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Am if it wasn't for all of you or every
single one of you have all picked me up.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's all nine of us, and all.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Nine of you in different ways.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
We've all got this different relationship with you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, and you know, like we were bonded as children.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We went you know, we danced together, we cried together,
we played together, we fought together.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Not over man over man, no way.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
But you know, like our mum has raised us right, definitely,
And you know, but I I feel the matriarchy, the
sister the tittle, that's what mum read is about. It's
about celebrating us as women, the way we look after
each other, the way we hold each other, the way
(26:11):
we hold out each other's babies. It's a reclamation of
our sovereignty, not just as black people on our land,
but as women. It's a reclamation of our sovereignty over
our self, over our bodies, over our autonomy, our self determination,
because as women we are the backbones of our communities.
(26:34):
That's been proven testament to me, just in my journey,
just in my life, just through watching my sister girls
watching you.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Says you are one of my biggest inspirations.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I watched you go from strength to strength and overcome
absolutely everything that has been thrown away, and I can
only hope but I can navigate myself through this newly
found self employed business world.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well you got, this is so got. You love you,
and we've got to just keep on support and any
any of the younger generation, even older generation that are
just gonna give this a go. It's the most scariest
thing to just not have that security, not have that
pay check coming every week, No super no leave, no
(27:21):
sick there's nothing there. Right until you get to a
point where you can now start paying yourself. Then you
kind of got to go, all right, I've made it,
but that's just paying yourself. Then you need that support
as you grow.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And then there's the industry that you're into, So like
stepping out of native title, being in that fighting for
country cultural preservation, you know, environmental protection, the resource industry, government,
bloody transport, main roads, all the rest of it, and
then stepping into the fashion industry. It seems quite frivolous
(27:55):
and almost like a luxury, especially with what we're facing.
But I felt last year that's so many of our
mob's voices was silence within the referendum debate that this
is actually, yes, it's an expense. It's a rich man's
game getting into fashion. It doesn't pay well being a
designer until you get picked up by a big you know,
(28:18):
until you get a collaboration or something. And for me,
it's about the ethics of the brand as well, Like
I'm not going to collaborate with someone if they've got
children in a sweatshop making their clothes, like that's just
doesn't fit with my worldview and where I want the
world to go either. So it's about standing strong in
your principles and knowing that you're getting a message out
(28:43):
there on that platform, and if you can get that
message out, get that representation, then maybe we'll be able
to and pause myself here, if we can convince one
non indigenous person, get them to see what it's like
for us, well then they can go and convince ten
more people a lot easier, and we can.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
That's exactly it. So we need to kind of to
some degree, we're investing in our allies that one person
is usually the one who's already connected supporting us being
around that can go and tell ten friends to their family.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Because at the end of the day, and I know
this is gonna oh, this is what I've just found,
you know, like we can.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It takes so much energy.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
For us to bring an ally over to our side
of the fence, because it's emotionally taxing for us.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It's it's literally the world we live in, and.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
We're just trying to pull back the curtain so that
they can see it and get a glimpse of it.
For them to go and introdroduce people and explain to
them what we go through and.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
To pull back that curtain.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's not as an it's not an emotionally taxing ordeal
for that and it doesn't hurt their heart and their spirit.
So if we can do the work with one person.
It has a domino effect, it ripples out.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, we're saving some of that energy for ourselves and
for what we need to.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Do, which is what we honestly. Otherwise we just burn
ourselves out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's so true. Alrighty, I can't wait to get you
back for part I told you we're going to be
yearning again. Let's call this part one, Clint, and then
come back. When we're back in, we'll go dive into
the achievements, the Vogue magazine, there's all. There's more. I'm
going to get to a bloody client. I'm going to
(30:35):
try and hustle in Melbourne peak ale traffic and not
be late for this client. But my sister, it was
an absolute pleasure, privilege, honor to have you on this
couch for my audience. And now know who mum read
the label is and you better get behind my sister, support,
(30:55):
reach out, connect, follow. You might see some of this
merch on mum Red's website, and make sure that you
take her and me when you start rapping this stuff.
So I love you, my sister, Keep going, keep doing it,
don't give up you mob. I always say this. I
hope you've enjoyed and I know you enjoyed this Deadly Yana.
(31:17):
Until next time by for an hour. If you'd like
any more info on today's guest, please visit our show
notes in the episode description. A big shout out to
all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch,
and support our podcast. Your feedback means the world. You
can rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify,
(31:39):
or even head to our socials and YouTube channel and
drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
Black Cast Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal
(00:26):
land and always will be Aboriginal land.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love that about our mob too.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
You know, we might live in a modern context, but
we still operate on our kinship terms of reference, and
you know, try and keep that as strong as possible
and that respect and that good way too. Welcome to
the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to a very exciting episode of the Black Magic
Woman Podcast. I can't wait for you to hear all
about my guest today. This episode has been freaking a
long time and I'm already getting excited. When I say freaking,
I'm excited a long time in the making. I've got
my sister from childhood long time ago, when we were
(01:15):
dancing up at Woodford Festival. So anyone that used to
do Woodford Festival, Malaney Festival, you would have saw not
just this beautiful woman sitting next to me, but also
would have remembered one of our song men as well.
So this episode's going to be special. I can't wait
for you to hear. This is Smala, also known as Mum.
Read the label just flew in from Darwin, from the
(01:38):
Darwin Art Fair also known as DAF. So we're going
to dive all into that. But before we do, my sister,
we are on the beautiful lands, unseated lands of the
cooler Nations here and now I just want to acknowledge
the mob here. I've been here for a couple of days,
you're now living here, and I just can't wait to
(01:59):
get people to hear your story and everything that you've
been doing and what you've actually so over to you,
my sister, the microphone is yours. Tell these fellas who
your moby is, where you grew up a little bit
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh my mom. Thank you, my sister for that beautiful introduction.
My mom.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
My mother's from Fraser Island and Kep Islands, only known
for a very short period of history as Fraser Island.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We call it Gary.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And my dad, like you said, was a strong, staunch
cultural man and he came from Mornington Island in the
golf carpent area. And yeah, we spent a lot of
time together as children, dancing, practicing culture, traveling a lot and.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Just running a mark as kids do.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Red Phone best times Brisbane.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You know, I remember us being at Musgrave Park, my
probably earliest memory, a bit of three years old, and
Uncle Doug Curry was walking around with a bucket full
of oranges that were frozen hand out to us kids
because it was so hot.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But we've been dancing all day. Yeah, good memories.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, so you're literally when I think about you, I
think about all the countries you visited. Right, this is
how I think about you when I when I explained
my sister to people are surround. This girl has been
all around the world. She's met royalty, she's stayed in Paris,
she's been invited to VIP parties, She's represented our people
(03:34):
and culture on the international stage and now going into fashion.
You know our tea Now, Tiger Lily, you better do
a shout out for Tiger Lily. We'll never forget you
for teaching her how to weave. That's her fondest memory
and your little connection with her.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Tiger Lily is my darling. I love her so much.
I love your baby. If you're watching this, Annie has
presents coming for you. I already gave him tomorrow. This
my darling, was inspired by your mama and she's a
rainbow woman, and she actually asked me to kind of
put this on to merch a couple of months ago,
so I had to do it. But my label Mum
(04:18):
Read isn't actually about the printed staff felt. I went
to a runway show about two years ago and I
saw such fire and strength in our people coming down
that runway in a way that had never been represented before.
(04:38):
And it literally I had an emotive response. I started crying.
I sat there and it was black photographers, it was
black models, it was black clothing, it was black brands.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And black stylists, black makeup artists, blacked everything. It was
just blacked out.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It was and it was just like, this is the
beauty of our people. And I think last year was
really difficult for me after having such a very long
history of you know, I have traveled a lot, and
I've had amazing opportunities to meet amazing people around the world,
and all of that has come as a result of
you know, I was fighting for country, And as you know,
(05:15):
I did native title for a long time, so I
was lead applicant on our native title claim for thirteen
years for my family line. And then we got a
successful consent determination in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Big, big congratulations, huge achievement, and still hasn't finished the fight.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Still there, fight's still there.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Actually, Native title claim number two just got registered and
my family put me up on that, So.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Here we go again.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
But I actually did try and step back last year
because the referendum, I feel was very heavy on a
lot of our mob and for me personally, I felt
like we were a part of a conversation that was
drowning our voices out. At the same time it was
supposed to give us one and I came to the conclusion,
(06:06):
how can they hear us if they can't even see us?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And while it.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Was so deadly for me to see all of these
brands and different styles of clothing represented on that runway,
I had noticed when I was sitting there that something
was missing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It was our traditional resources.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Where's the skin, Where's the fur, where's the feathers, where's
the weaving, where's the quill work, where's the shells, like
little bits.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Of adornment, but not actually in the clothes.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And so I decided to challenge myself and see if
I could take the skills that I've learnt over my
lifetime sitting with my old people, learn how to weave
and tie feathers and work the sinew and chew it.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
And when we're talking about sinew, we're talking about kangaroo.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, we're talking about kangaroo.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, the insides of a kangaroo that holds the muscles together.
That sinew. Yeah, so when you ever get kangaroo, mean
it's a bit chewy, that's sinewy.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So Smile is talking about using the sinew from the
room to then tie pieces together. This is definitely for
non mob that have no idea that you're talking about
using animal. But it's not. We don't waste anything.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And so I have three eskis in the back of
my fall drive, once for reptiles, ones for mammals, and
the other ones for birds. So I think it's yeah,
these hands don't mind getting dirty.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm sorry, I know I saw you just trying to
cut that old man gowenna up. Remember we found that going.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You and Peace come in with it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
He was literally got hit. We had to put him
out of his misery.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And I wanted that belly fat a ye.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Had to get the poison.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I didn't have a knife sharp enough.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We couldn't get through well yack. I didn't have a knife,
didn't have.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
The reptiles, birds and mamois.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I love this, so I treat them all. I take
them home, assault them, I wash them. It's like from
an eucalyptus, and then I use them to create these
items of clothing.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That are one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Naturally made from country, or they have been made from
the fractures that exist upon it. So we live in
a fractured nation, and I feel last year those fractures
actually really became quite visible, and out of those fractures
came us. And I don't know where we're going to
(08:41):
go in the future, but I feel like now is
the time for us to be seen, because if we're
going to be heard, we need to be seen, because
they need to see us for all the beauty that
we have.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Your next T shirt right, your next line, your next
print needs to be if you haven't already done this,
and don't copy you fellus. This is trademarked on the show. Besides,
and if you do, copies are comment for you. We'll
see you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I'll get my sister to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
How can they hear us when they can't see us.
That's going to be on a T shirt. Love it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I actually set it to the models at the Country
to catur runway show that we just did last week
up in Dowan. So I showcased with twenty designers from
across the country fifteen piece collection and Country to Cautour
actually as an opportunity for younger models to learn about
the industry and get experience on runways. And we were
(09:39):
asked to address them and explain about our pieces before
they wore them, and I asked them to think about
the thousand generations of women that have birthed for them
to be here today and how they want a thousand
generations down the line of their descendants to feel as
powerful black matriarchs walking on our own land.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And to walk down the runway like that.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And it it was.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It was really emotional.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Actually, I had those young girls come up to me
afterwards and thanked me for they felt it. They felt
it in the pieces.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, they come something they probably never felt before.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Because you know, when we were dancing, when we were young,
you know, and back when we were doing it, it
wasn't like nowadays, Like I really feel like our parents
and our generation and the generation beforehand, our generation has children.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, because it was our parents that did it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
They carved out a space where they made them see us.
They made them see us, and we took our culture
and our song and our dance, and we took it
to places where the reception wasn't always that great. You know,
we weren't actually always met with applause and O, this
is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You know, you didn't always have an audience except.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
For family, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know, they always show up.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
But when when we.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Paint up and we put on our dance gear, for me,
that always felt like a shield, you know, like I'm protected,
like no matter what happens outside in that other world,
I'm walking in my spirit in this moment, and I
am so protected by all my old people. And I
try to put that into the pieces that I create.
And after I yearned with the girls and they did
(11:36):
their first they put the pieces on. It was their
first dress rehearsal, and they walked down the runway. I
had them coming up to me and crying afterwards, saying
that they just felt strong and powerful.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
When they wore it and shielded.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And for me, if I can give that feeling to
these young girls, and they.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Feels and nieces our daughters.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Our future manies, mothers, you know, and culturally, you know,
like when I'm an old girl, they're young girls. They're
going to be my small mums and you know, my
little sisters and my big sisters. That switches the other
way because as we get older, we become younger and
they become older and they got to look after us.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's such a beautiful explanation description of our culture. And
that's what saddens me about this country is that and
we don't have to worry about non apecial people or
white Australians and non Indigenous Australians, but they've missed out
on so much. They've missed out on this amazing gift
(12:42):
that we're still willing to share with.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Them, or constantly trying to share, constantly trying to share. Yeah,
and if people could open their eyes, they could see it.
If they could see it, they'd be able to open
their beinnungs. So that they can hear it.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And then feel it. Yeah, and it would be a
feeling that they've never felt before. A lot of non
abistional people say a lot of white fellows.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Say that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
They don't they don't have this sense of belonging or
they don't feel like they belong anywhere. And I said,
because you've never been welcomed into the country, blackfellows can
give you that sense of belonging that you can only
get from our mob, right from our people from this country.
(13:24):
That's still available, not to everyone, but we're still here.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We gotta come in a good way, and you want
to come in a good way. Yeah, and here.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
In this place the Warren Jerry mob they took about
woman Jenka and it's not greetings. The mob I deliver
training yesterday said oh, yeah, that means hello, And I'm like, well,
actually no. So I had to warn Hunter, Commissioner Hunter
on the podcast and she said to me, it means
to come with purpose. And you know when the people
that you meet are good people and we take them
(13:55):
in and we show them the way and then we
make them part of our community. That's right.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
And we grew up with an open door policy. That's
exactly in front or open for you know everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Well opened fridge door, open window, someone come through the window.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, that wasn't unusual.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So what are you going to do with this country
to catue our darling out fair? These awards you got
nominated for? Like, what is what's happening now?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Should I rat it all off till I feel like, oh,
it's a bit it's a bit.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Of a It's not an overnight success, all right. You
might have thought, smilas you know, doing this and working
here and running meetings and off back to country. In
the meantime, you're doing thousands of hours of work, like
this is hand sewing beating. I watched you with Tiger Lily,
(14:49):
and you're just how you set your weaving up. You've
got these big things and it's all And I just thought, oh,
I don't have the patience for this. And we're in
Cans on holidays for my fortieth and Tigler just kept
saying to me, take me back to Arnie house. But
it was my birth time. I think we're going to
spend the day together. She didn't want to spend the
day with me. She got more patience than you, She
(15:10):
got way more patience than me. But she she she
was loving every minute of watching you and and learning
from you.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And that's the magic, you know, that's it's She's very
special in that sense. Like I, I sit down with
the kids as much as I can to try and
teach them and pass it on.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And you know, not.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Everybody is a weaver, some of some people don't have
the patience for it. But when you come across a
little girl that is as talented and as deeply enthralled
by it that she sat there with me for hours.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh no, yeah, didn't you sleep over? Tigerly won't sleep
at anyone's house. She's in my bed, still in my
bed at eight, and she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
We swap kids, you took you took my sisters? No
are we? Baby? Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Speaking of nowI though, So I have just I've got
to do a shout out to my little sister because
the last ten days I have spent up on Ladakir
country and that's her country. And so she's a Mills.
She's a Mills, that's right, so and a Junie Mills.
And so yesterday I went and seeing RB and I
dropped off all of my new line because this is
(16:24):
the thing as well.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Just gotta like seriously, I I that's what I'm gonna wear.
I put my laptop in this bag today and I
did have the whale shirt like this whale when you
see your new line.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So my new line was actually meant to come from
a manufacturer, but it was the late delivery, so I
didn't arrive in time, so that my entire collection was
everything handmade, grassroots cultural couture, totally bespoke, handbearded, woven, and
a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Of labor, a lot of love, a lot of labor.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Probably about over the last three months, so I spent
probably about two hundred and fifty hours of just weaving
and beating. I tried to keep account on each piece
that I did, so every piece that I do comes
with story. And I only launched my label in October
last year, so it's been ten months and.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
It's been a domino effect.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
So within three days of meat launching the label, I
was invited to Melbourne Fashion Week to showcase on the
Gambi Mara runway. They rang me and they were like,
do you have eight pieces you could show on the
runway next week? And I was like mm hmm, yep,
How you do it, fake it, do you make it? Yeah?
I didn't, but I did buy that next week, and
so I showcased there and amazingly, I had Thelma Plum's
(17:49):
stylists reach out to me, and I then created a
piece for her to where when she performed at Coldplay's
sold out concert in Wa, I saw the pigs. She
just looked absolutely amazing. Shout out to Thalia as well,
you're just divine.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We love you, Thelma, but.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We don't talk about it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And then so not long after that, I was invited
to Global Indigenous Runway with Melbourne Fashion Festival, New York
Fashion Week. The country took a tour Runway and a
few others that I can't talk about just yet. And
I think, like watch your space people as a one
woman show, you know, like it's me. I make everything.
(18:33):
I built my website myself, I do everything myself. And
I was yearning with my mum about it, and I
was just kind of like, you know, I just feel
like some days maybe I'm not worthy to be in
the space. And my mom turned around and just said
to me, Mala, you might feel like you're behind, but
when it comes to you doing this, you've been doing
(18:55):
this for thirty years. You know, you've been ever since
you were a little girl. You've been pulling apart string
and pulling things apart and putting them together and making clothes.
And you might feel like you're behind, but you actually
laps ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
So you just you've got to have faith in yourself
and just let yourself create. Because I've never really had
the time to.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Really sit down.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, I'm always going, and of course, and so just
in this last year, seeing what's come out of that,
it is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And I see you found love.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Oh yes, I did. I found myself a lovely.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Southern really is. I don't need a man. You were
very carefree, case didn't want in a rome in the
country doing you and the next minute loved up, shacked up.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I met him at my runway show. I haven't told
you how I met him. Here everybody gonna find out
how I mad him. I met him at my runway show.
I just finished dress the models and had to put
my dress on because they walked the designers out. So
I went into the model room, I put on my dress,
come out and I'm standing there and I can feel
someone staring at me. You know, well around nothing, I
(20:16):
still feel it. I look around and then I see
this beautiful man standing there in a tuxedo. Mind you,
beautiful black man in a tuxedo old in the ladder way.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You know, did you do? It's just like I looked
at him and he was is this real?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
This cannot be real?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And you know what this means to me, right? I know?
You know how that? Yeah, that's calls out to me
from my childhood.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And anyway, I see this man and he's staring at
me like dead intent. And when a man is looking
at you and he's sleazy, he'll look at you and
he'll kind of do that kind of thing, you know,
raise his eyebrows or whatever, or think when he's got
that whole I'm deadly, or I'll look down and look away,
you know, because they got caught looking at you for
(21:04):
young ones.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, take note, fellows, we know what you do.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
We can read you from a mile away.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, what struck me with him?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
He just swept me off my feet, I guess from
the get go is he did neither.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
He did neither.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
He looked me dead in my eyes, and he walked
straight over to me and he goes my name's Paul Kelly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Literally Paul Kelly.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Paul Kelly, Yes, not the white Paul Kelly, the black
Paul Kelly. Yeah, but they got the same birthday.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Big shout out to Paul Kelly. Yeah to both years on.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
My Runway show because I put his name down on
the door.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I hadn't ringing me up and they were like, are
you bringing Paul Kelly And you're going.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
To keep saying it's the black Paul Kelly. I love this.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Literally, Like when we went because I dressed Emily Watermor
for the Nethasnia's National Indigenous Music Awards, we had the
Fashion Awards and the Music Awards NEMA at.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
The same time, two days apart.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
How good is that? Though, come to Darwin and we
had them all done at the same time. Literally, that's
next year I'm coming.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
You've got to come to Darwin from like the about
the twentieth of July until about the twelfth of August, because.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
When put that date in your diary, all right, twentieth
of July to twelfth of boo, because that's when we
need to.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Be in Darwin's when you need to be in Darwin.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
We will get so many people on this podcast here.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Look Emily, she went and put down because I was
a stylist and addressed her for the event. But Paul
was coming with us, and she put him down her
security and we were having a little giggle on the
way to the event because it was just like they're
going to be like, why is Paul Kelly Vian Emily security?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Oh but yeah, he's He's just a.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Love black humor, right, just black fellows will get things
like that. I love it, So, Emily, what a matter
is coming on this podcast. We're going to do virtues.
Can't get to the same place. She's here Friday, I
leave Wednesday. We're both in Melbourne and we're missing each other.
So sister girl, we've been trying to get this yard happening.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
My daughter asks going to happen? She call me mom.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I love this one.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I love itally my big daughter and a small mummy culturally,
you know, and I love that about our mob too.
You know how we might live in a modern context,
but we still operate on our kinship terms of reference
and you know, dry and keep that as strong as
possible and that respect and that good way too.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Oh my god, Marla, just from I can't stop thinking
of how far you've come. And you probably still think
every day when you when you're that yan with your
mom and you kind of you know, the pressure of
being in business, the pressure just trying to keep your
head above the water in this pretty tumultuous world. This
(23:53):
this this world that we're living in right now. There's
so much uncertainty, so there's even more pressure of being
a being self employed, Like I can't imagine doing everything
right now in this kind of the world we're living
in now is very different to ten years ago. It's
very different from a year ago. And I just hope that,
(24:16):
you know, with our old people guiding us. And my
husband Piece always says us, I've doubted myself at least
maybe once or twice a week. I'll work on something
and say I can't do it. Why have I committed?
And Peace always say to me, they're old people. They're
not going to let you fail. Don't give up, keep going,
(24:38):
keep pushing yourself. This is how far you've come, you know.
And I've got to keep trusting in my old people.
And annie La always said that too, she said, she's
our old people are deadly. Look look how far we've come.
We thank them all the time for our achievements, our success,
the fact that we've got this energy still, we've still
(24:59):
got that fire in our belly.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And that's them.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
They showed us, they taught us, they paved that way
for us, and without them, we wouldn't be here. And
and that.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Is a given.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
But I also have to acknowledge on this podcast right now,
you and your sisters and everything that use have done
for me in my life, I would not be who
I am.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I would not be where I.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Am if it wasn't for all of you or every
single one of you have all picked me up.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's all nine of us, and all.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Nine of you in different ways.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
We've all got this different relationship with you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, and you know, like we were bonded as children.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We went you know, we danced together, we cried together,
we played together, we fought together.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Not over man over man, no way.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
But you know, like our mum has raised us right, definitely,
And you know, but I I feel the matriarchy, the
sister the tittle, that's what mum read is about. It's
about celebrating us as women, the way we look after
each other, the way we hold each other, the way
(26:11):
we hold out each other's babies. It's a reclamation of
our sovereignty, not just as black people on our land,
but as women. It's a reclamation of our sovereignty over
our self, over our bodies, over our autonomy, our self determination,
because as women we are the backbones of our communities.
(26:34):
That's been proven testament to me, just in my journey,
just in my life, just through watching my sister girls
watching you.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Says you are one of my biggest inspirations.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I watched you go from strength to strength and overcome
absolutely everything that has been thrown away, and I can
only hope but I can navigate myself through this newly
found self employed business world.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well you got, this is so got. You love you,
and we've got to just keep on support and any
any of the younger generation, even older generation that are
just gonna give this a go. It's the most scariest
thing to just not have that security, not have that
pay check coming every week, No super no leave, no
(27:21):
sick there's nothing there. Right until you get to a
point where you can now start paying yourself. Then you
kind of got to go, all right, I've made it,
but that's just paying yourself. Then you need that support
as you grow.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And then there's the industry that you're into, So like
stepping out of native title, being in that fighting for
country cultural preservation, you know, environmental protection, the resource industry, government,
bloody transport, main roads, all the rest of it, and
then stepping into the fashion industry. It seems quite frivolous
(27:55):
and almost like a luxury, especially with what we're facing.
But I felt last year that's so many of our
mob's voices was silence within the referendum debate that this
is actually, yes, it's an expense. It's a rich man's
game getting into fashion. It doesn't pay well being a
designer until you get picked up by a big you know,
(28:18):
until you get a collaboration or something. And for me,
it's about the ethics of the brand as well, Like
I'm not going to collaborate with someone if they've got
children in a sweatshop making their clothes, like that's just
doesn't fit with my worldview and where I want the
world to go either. So it's about standing strong in
your principles and knowing that you're getting a message out
(28:43):
there on that platform, and if you can get that
message out, get that representation, then maybe we'll be able
to and pause myself here, if we can convince one
non indigenous person, get them to see what it's like
for us, well then they can go and convince ten
more people a lot easier, and we can.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
That's exactly it. So we need to kind of to
some degree, we're investing in our allies that one person
is usually the one who's already connected supporting us being
around that can go and tell ten friends to their family.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Because at the end of the day, and I know
this is gonna oh, this is what I've just found,
you know, like we can.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It takes so much energy.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
For us to bring an ally over to our side
of the fence, because it's emotionally taxing for us.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It's it's literally the world we live in, and.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
We're just trying to pull back the curtain so that
they can see it and get a glimpse of it.
For them to go and introdroduce people and explain to
them what we go through and.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
To pull back that curtain.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's not as an it's not an emotionally taxing ordeal
for that and it doesn't hurt their heart and their spirit.
So if we can do the work with one person.
It has a domino effect, it ripples out.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, we're saving some of that energy for ourselves and
for what we need to.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Do, which is what we honestly. Otherwise we just burn
ourselves out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's so true. Alrighty, I can't wait to get you
back for part I told you we're going to be
yearning again. Let's call this part one, Clint, and then
come back. When we're back in, we'll go dive into
the achievements, the Vogue magazine, there's all. There's more. I'm
going to get to a bloody client. I'm going to
(30:35):
try and hustle in Melbourne peak ale traffic and not
be late for this client. But my sister, it was
an absolute pleasure, privilege, honor to have you on this
couch for my audience. And now know who mum read
the label is and you better get behind my sister, support,
(30:55):
reach out, connect, follow. You might see some of this
merch on mum Red's website, and make sure that you
take her and me when you start rapping this stuff.
So I love you, my sister, Keep going, keep doing it,
don't give up you mob. I always say this. I
hope you've enjoyed and I know you enjoyed this Deadly Yana.
(31:17):
Until next time by for an hour. If you'd like
any more info on today's guest, please visit our show
notes in the episode description. A big shout out to
all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch,
and support our podcast. Your feedback means the world. You
can rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify,
(31:39):
or even head to our socials and YouTube channel and
drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
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