Unlocking PIckleball Performance: The Power of Sleep and Wellness

What if you could elevate your athletic performance simply by improving your sleep? Join us for an engaging conversation with sleep scientist Sarah Moe, who shares her unexpected journey into the world of pickleball and how she discovered the crucial link between quality sleep and athletic prowess. Sarah’s competitive nature set the stage for her newfound passion, and she offers expert advice on how sleep can enhance not only your game but also your overall health and well-being.

We take a critical look at the healthcare system, shedding light on the often problematic relationship between pharmaceutical companies and healthcare providers. Sarah brings her expertise to the forefront, discussing the increasing trend toward natural health solutions and the vital roles hormones like progesterone and melatonin play in our sleep health. From grounding techniques to the importance of understanding your body’s needs, this episode is packed with practical tips for achieving a healthier, more balanced life.

Discover the transformative power of sleep monitoring technologies and CPAP machines for those dealing with sleep apnea. We explore personal stories and the benefits of wearables like Fitbits and Oura rings for enhanced health awareness. Plus, we challenge societal norms around co-sleeping, presenting compelling evidence and personal anecdotes that highlight the positive impact of separate sleeping arrangements on relationship health. Tune in for an episode rich with insights, humor, and invaluable advice from one of our favorite recurring guests.

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Special thanks to Crown Pickleball for their support and sponsorship! Don't waste money on balls that break, Crown pickleballs rarely crack, are more visible and have a higher spin rate than the competitors.
Use our link to receive a discount on your next purchase! https://crownpickleball.store/blazingpaddles

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So these last few years where people are saying oh
okay, you know I do have somechronic illness, but it's
impacting my sleep, gettinggrounding sheets or earthing
mats to stick under your feetwhile you're working on your
laptop from home has been a gamechanger.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know what they need.
They need inserts, shoe insertsI can't.
Sarah, I don't go barefoot everLike I go like a shower
barefoot.
It's because she's weird, she'sgross as soon as I get out of
the shower I grab my socks, andas soon as I'm dry I put my
socks on, and then I, as soon asI can, I put my crocs on, with
my inserts in there, because Ihave bunions from playing

(00:34):
pickleball.
So it's like one problemcompounds another yeah, do you
ever garden?

Speaker 3 (00:41):
hello picklers.
Today we have a special treatfor you.
It is a friend of mine, arepeat guest, sarah Moe.
She is a sleep scientist andthis is the third time Karen and
I have had her on and we aretalking about the relationship
between sleep and pickleballtoday.
There's a lot of importance insleep.
We spend a third of our livessleeping and we know very little

(01:02):
about it and it's an amazingtopic once we get her going.
But she also combines thebenefits of good sleep with so
many other areas of her life.
So if you've never heard one ofour conversations with Sarah Mo
, time is today, so saddle upand have a listen.
You'll be glad you did.
It's Friday the 13th and we aredoing all kinds of all the
Friday the 13th and are doingall kinds of all the Friday the

(01:24):
13th things with technicaldifficulties, but we fought
through.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, all of that checks out.
I'm just glad we're not up inflames right now.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
You know what, sarah?
You have a.
This is a distinguished episodebecause you're the first
three-time guest I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Isn't this our fourth ?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Is it no?
No, it's third, isn't it?
I think it't this our fourth.
Is it no?
No, it's third, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I think it might be our fourth.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, okay, so let's talk, let's look.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Maybe I'm confusing Because you've talked to the
employee.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Because we brought you out to the work too.
That would be four, and thenwe're going to have a fifth.
When you speak to our employees, when is it Like right before
daylight savings?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, I'm still questioning, though, because I
remember maybe, okay, you'reprobably right.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm going to have to check.
I'm going to have to check that.
But the funny thing is too,when we first met and started
talking and got on this pod iswhen we were I was still doing
the HR podcast and we weretalking, obviously, about the
you know, the real sleepepidemic in the in the nation,
especially how it impacts peopleat work and the cost to

(02:34):
employees, to employers, and nowwe're talking pickleball.
But it's funny Cause, like thelast guest we had is a
performance.
What is it?
Performance excellence doctor.
He's a scientist for all kindsof and he is big into the power
of sleep as well.
It's one of the you know thepillars of his program that he
developed as well, and it waslike well, shoot, there's an

(02:56):
excuse, we've got to get Sarahback on.
Now let's talk sleep andpickleball.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
I couldn't be happier .
Two of my very favorite thingsThanks to you guys.
I mean, when we think about howfar we go back now, I was
saying how I hadn't heard ofpickleball before you.
Oh, we introduced you to thesport After we had our last

(03:21):
conversation and you weretelling me about your
introductions into the world ofpickleball.
It just blew up up here and Ijust thought about you guys
every time.
It was so funny.
So it's like oh, we're behind.
This is actually a blast.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
That's awesome.
Now are you playing indoors oroutdoors?
Outdoors, okay, yes, while wecan, but you know it's Minnesota
.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
So once it starts snowing, we'll be, we'll be
inside again, but every chancewe get outside, that's so cool.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
You play with your boyfriend.
You said you guys play together.
How do y'all do y'all playtogether?
Uh, y'all get along when youplay.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yes, so here.
Yes, so this is a funny story.
The first time I ever playedwas because his ex-wife is on a
league with her fiance and theywere going out of town.
So she was like we need subs orwe're going to lose, we're in
second place and if we have toforfeit, I know and I was like
I've literally never playedbefore she's like you'll be fine
, so we just show up at thisleague.

(04:20):
My partner is very athletic.
He's a former tennis pro.
He can't do anything wrong.
It's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
So I was already annoyed.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
I was like this is going to go horribly.
But luckily, you know, it's apretty, it's an introduction to
pickleball league.
Everybody there was kind of newand even though they were a few
weeks in, you know, he was likejust hit a few balls and see
what happens.
And I played tennis in highschool or whatever.
And so, yeah, we just startedand it was so fun and instantly

(04:49):
we just had a really greatchemistry.
I think the old tennis proteacher in him came out.
He was very easy on me and agreat coach and that just
instantly sparked us being likeokay, yeah, we're going to have
to do this now.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I cannot even imagine my first time being in a
pressure situation like that.
You should see how nervous Iget when my first couple matches
.
It is ridiculous.
My heart is racing.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Oh no.
Well, I think with thementality of they were going to
have to forfeit and they wouldhave lost anyway, so if we
somehow pull out a win, it'sbetter than not showing up at
all.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, what people hate more than anything is to
not be able to play at all.
So they were like, yeah, that'sokay.
Well, and if he's, and if he'sa tennis guy and if he's really
good at it, a lot of times youcan cover for somebody who's a
little less experienced for awhile.
We've seen that in action.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Exactly.
Yeah, I will say, though I I'ma I'm a quick learner, so he
brings out my competitive side.
I know I'll never beat him, butI've definitely caused his face
to turn a little red once ortwice.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
That's great.
You know, that's one of thethings we've always said about
pickleball.
One thing that's great is it'sso easy to learn.
It's really hard to get reallygood.
You can plateau really quicklyand then you have to really work
at it.
But anybody can step out thereand learn and have fun.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, plateau really quickly and then you have to
really work at it.
But anybody can step out thereand learn and have fun.
And you know, yeah, and I thinkit helps if you're any sort of
athlete, if you've ever playedany sort of sport.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
It just seems to translate as long as you're able
to have a little bit offoresight, move your body, well,
it just, it's so fun yeah, andit's a lot less taxing than, uh,
you know, we played, we weregoing to play tennis and that
didn't work out because I hiteverything out of the court and
started doing it on purposebecause I'd get so mad.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
And so he said he said our coach kept hitting them
ball, more balls to me, and Iwas like, well, that's because I
kept them in the in the court,in the court.
I mean, I don't know what totell you.
Buddy, keep the ball on thecourt and he'll hit them to you.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I may have had the wrong attitude.
You never know.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, I don't know how many paddles have you thrown
?

Speaker 3 (06:52):
How many have I had?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
I'm still learning so much.
You know, when you think aboutit, it's easy to learn, but
rules wise, I still'm like, okay, wait, odds, even it's up to
this.
Oh, and then the one and thetwo it is.
There is a lot it's.
It's pretty involved, um, but Idid learn very quickly that you
can't smack paddles right.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's so funny.
Some of the people that we playwith that are really protective
of their paddles.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
They'll stick their hand out and not the paddle I
turn my paddle and just kind ofbump the handle.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I've started yeah, that's kind of my thing.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Uh, so for those people who aren't as familiar
with you, uh, can you give us alittle insight into what your,
what's your, daily mission?
Because you're a sleepscientist.
There's not a whole lot ofpeople who can say that.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, well, my daily mission changes, but my
background has been the same forabout 20 years now, which is
crazy to me.
I started my career in sleepmedicine by practicing sleep
studies.
I got boarded in what's calledpolysomnography, which is the
study of sleep, so I used todiagnose sleep disorders for
patients with things like sleepapnea, narcolepsy, insomnia all

(08:08):
of that when they would comeinto the sleep lab.
After that, I became an adjunctprofessor at Minneapolis
College where I taught the sleepmedicine program, and then I
started my small business whereI work with corporations and
teams to help tired employees.
Sleep medicine has come a longway since I've even started.
I used to say, oh yeah, I workin sleep and people would say
what you get paid to take naps?

(08:29):
No, I actually help otherpeople get to take naps.
But now, when you talk aboutsleep medicine even just
post-pandemic, this mentality ofwellness first it really has
just skyrocketed kind of to theforefront of people's minds,
which is good and bad.
Obviously it's great becausewe're helping people feel better

(08:51):
and really be their bestproductive selves.
But it's kind of bad recentlywhen I've seen all of these
things, these money-makingdevices, these just like
products out there where they'retaking advantage of people's
fatigue.
That infuriates me.
So I love having conversationsabout, obviously, sleep in
general, but really how evenjust getting to that point of

(09:12):
awareness of saying hey, I'm notsupposed to be tired all the
time, having that be your firststep and just finding solutions?

Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know, and I found an article.
I think I may have evenforwarded it to you because we
were, I think I think we hadthis discussion because this
goes back to me as personal.
I had apnea, I had all kinds ofsleep disorder, but the the
sleep industry is a big one.
It is blown up.
It's billions and billions ofdollars industry and a lot of
that is in uh sleep, uh AIDS.
As far as uh prescription drugsand um, they're not always good

(09:43):
for you.
As a matter of fact, they don'tgive you the right kind of
sleep and that kind of stuff andI think that most people aren't
aware of that.
Do you have any insight into, Imean, sleeping pills or
melatonin and all those types ofthings?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, that's such a great point.
People aren't aware of it andtheir physicians and their
doctors that are prescribingthem aren't even aware of it.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's scary, that's scary.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
The average I know, the average medical professional
gets an hour and a half ofsleep education in med school In
their eight years of schooling.
1.5 hours is spent on a third ofour lives and that is
terrifying, because then theyget kicked out into the systems
and we have questions, we haveconcerns hey, doc, I'm tired.
Oh, okay, let's check yourthyroid.
That's the first place thatthey always go.

(10:21):
Now let's get you in a sleeplab and see if you have an
underlying sleep disorder.
On top of that, they have theability to just prescribe, and
that is an important part ofkeeping medical practices afloat
.
Sadly, that relationship withthe pharmaceutical companies is
important, and now it'strickling down.
So instead of knowing to say,hey, you're tired all the time,

(10:45):
let's check out your sleep.
They say here's an easy,on-hand solution that's already
in my desk drawer.
Try this with no conversationregarding if there's an actual
physiological problem, let'sjust throw a med at it and see
what happens.
And we've seen direconsequences for years from now
and they're getting theireducation from who?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
The farmer rat that gets?
That's just it.
Who gets paid to do what?
Sell their drug?

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Exactly who has how much education Less than a doc,
whatever, but she brings lunchto the office every Friday.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Whatever, Kool-Aid they drink from the company that
they work for.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Exactly and again, it's really sad because I don't
think that the intention is tobe harmful.
I think most people you knowthe hypocritical who go into
practicing medicine really dowant to help.
But without that just baselineknowledge of saying, okay,
here's what happens in thisthird of your life and here's
how it impacts all of yourwaking hours, having that easy
solution on hand is simplydangerous.

(11:40):
But the one cool thing thatcame from the last few years is
less inclination to take pills.
More and more people are sayingyou know what?
I'm not going to just throw amedication at it.
I don't want to be taking pillsuntil I'm old.
Have that pill popping casethat is going to keep me going.
You know, I want to be able tofigure things out in a more
natural way and because of thatmovement there are more people

(12:01):
saying okay, like what's goingon with my sleep.
I'm not going to take this sleepaid.
Maybe I'll change some habits,maybe I'll get that sleep study
or, you know, even just Googlingand finding answers for
yourself.
We've seen a huge uprising inthat recently I call it Dr
Google.
Dr Google, yeah Well exactly,just don't web empty it.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
What do you think of progesterone and melatonin?

Speaker 1 (12:28):
So those are two very , very important hormones,
especially as we start I evenwant to say this conversation
around menopause in America.
It's so interesting how thiseverybody goes through menopause
.
Whether or not you go throughmenopause, if you have a woman
in your life, then you are goingto go through it.
Sorry, you should learn what'sgoing to go down because you

(12:51):
will be impacted.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Do men have anything equivalent to our menopause?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, no, but don't they have their monthlies?

Speaker 3 (12:57):
We're collateral damage.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, we do, we have all kinds.
I do, I do for sure, yeah, yeahwe do.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
We have all kinds.
I do, I do for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, there's influx and hormones and all that.
That happens especially if youare a sympathetic partner.
We find that you, just as weage, we not only start to
resemble our pets and ourpartners, but we also
physiologically get a lot morein tune.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
So it just means that you're a good husband if you
are also having a time of themonth.
Do you want to talk about it?
No, I do want to see.
This is his new thing.
Like I'm bringing him my weightof what's on my heart or my
mind.
And he's like so do you want totalk about it?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
That's wonderful.
My partner does a similar thing, where he says are you looking
for an ear or for?
A solution Just an ear.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Don't tell me what to do.
I was going to say it's got tobe, 90% of that is going to be
ear for sure.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, okay.
So back to progesterone.
What do you think?
Because I'm on HRT.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yep.
So any supplementation that ishelpful I am all for.
But that's the thing withsupplementing Our bodies when
they are deficient in something,they need to be supplemented.
If I said to you, oh, you'redeficient in vitamin C,
supplement with a vitamin Cvitamin.
That's going to make you feelbetter.
Same with melatonin People whoare deficient in melatonin then
will supplement with it and thatwill help them sleep.

(14:18):
But if you are not deficient init, it is not going to help
your body.
Now, with progesterone, a lotof people don't even know what
that is or what time in theirlife cycle it could be helpful
to supplement or have thatconversation with their doctor,
Because, again, these aren'tconversations being had in med
school, which just simply needsto change.
But that being said, melatoninhas been kind of a fix-all for

(14:40):
sleep for years, thanks to itsamazing marketing.
Oh, I'm going to throw somemelatonin at it and it's all
natural.
It's not when you buy somethingat Target.
It's created in a lab andtherefore it's a drug.
You're taking a pill.
But deficiency in melatonin weare seeing more now because of

(15:00):
deficiency in serotonin.
Now, serotonin is that happyhormone that we create.
We go outside, we get sunlightexposure.
It's all happening in our gutmakes us feel good, makes us
feel calm.
Serotonin production is reallyimportant for feeling well.
But serotonin is transformed tomelatonin through darkness.
So as much serotonin as youhave in your body throughout the

(15:20):
day, once the sun starts to setand darkness comes, that's
going to get into the melatoninproduction.
That's going to be that signalfor falling asleep.
That's what's going to help youhave those easy transitions
into sleep.
Now, if you don't have a lot ofserotonin, like us in the
Midwest from August to May,where we have nothing but winter

(15:40):
, this is where we're seeingwhat's called SAD or seasonal
depression disorder, and that isbecause we're not getting
sunlight exposure, we're notcreating that happy hormone of
serotonin.
Then we go to sleep, we're nothaving strong melatonin signals,
we're having a bad night'ssleep, we wake up and start that
cycle all over again.
So melatonin supplementationcan be very helpful for a lot of

(16:01):
people who aren't deficient init.
They take it and they're likeit didn't help me at all or it
gave me the craziest.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Oh, I've heard that.
I've heard that I, I take it,I'm, I'm.
I don't know why, but I can.
If I lay there and I forget totake it, about five minutes
later, my mind is still goingand I'm like, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
I forgot my melatonin as soon as I said, if it works
for you, great.
Some people it's not going towork, and that's another hard
thing about things like sleepaids or supplementation.
The loudest people are the onesthat something random worked
for Like the guy who wrote themouth taping book.
He's like oh everybody, tapeyour mouths, shut at bed.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I'm like oh, don't like that.
Was he a serial?

Speaker 1 (16:43):
killer.
I can't tell you how many timesI have to tell people don't
tape one of your breathing holesshut.
There's two of them Breathingright.
And if you are breathingthrough your mouth at night,
it's probably because of somesort of nasal congestion,
deviated septum.
There is something structurallyhappening forcing you to get
oxygen this way.
Don't eliminate it.

(17:04):
But you know, one guy wrote abook saying the air is cleaner
when filtered through your nose.
It'll change your life.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I even know that's a lie.
Well, no it knows.
Filtration system is everythingyour nose is.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
No, no, that's what she's saying, I know, but he was
saying breathing through yourmouth is healthier.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
No, he's saying breathing through your nose, oh,
okay.
Taping the mouth, okay, oh,nevermind.
Yeah, no, but that's just it.
Like you hear about all ofthese strange things, these like
kooky little fixes and thedifferent supplementations that
you can take and you know, Ican't ever rule anything out
100%, because even with mouthtaping, I'm sure there's a very
small percentage of thepopulation that might actually
benefit from it.
For some reason they do feelmore refreshed and that's great.

(17:47):
But for big overall fixes,things like melatonin and the
AMB, we just don't want to dothat.
Our individual bodies are justthat they're individuals.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
If I walk in and see you with tape on your mouth, I'm
calling 911.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, call me, Call me, I'll show up.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
I would not.
I'm calling 911.
No, call me.
Call me, I'll show up.
I would not.
I would not, I would not.
I know.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
It's so silly.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Let me ask you this, because the same thing that
you're perpetuating with doctorsto prescribe sometimes it's a
quick fix and again, one of ourbest friends is a doctor.
Great guy Knows all kinds ofdifferent aspects of medicine,
but nobody can do everything.
What are the questions that youcan ask as a patient if you go
in there?
Because you might have to askthe right questions to prompt

(18:29):
them to give you the right info.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, so go in knowing that this is a part of
your life that could be studied.
This isn't something that isnecessarily a quick fix.
If you started feeling PVCs orpremature ventricular
contractions, skip heartbeats.
If all of a sudden, your heartwas like boom boom, boom boom,
you'd notice that and you'dthink okay, that's a problem.
I should have that looked atand I'll go see a cardiologist.

(18:54):
That's a problem I should havethat looked at and I'll go see a
cardiologist.
We know that.
So when people are constantlyfatigued, they go into their
non-sleep specialist doctor andsay help me with my sleep.
So I think a really big pieceof education that could be
helpful for so many people isthat there are specific
physicians that are just trainedin this that are going to be a
bigger help to you.
They're in every single city.

(19:15):
Seek them out.
Have your conversations withthe right people so you can get
the right answers.
The other thing is that we'veall learned from a young age
that, in order to help us sleep,some sort of medication should
be involved, but that is not thecase For the vast majority of
people, who are tired all thetime.
It is habit based.
It is something that you aredoing in the day that impacts

(19:37):
the night, but we have kind ofthat disconnect.
We think they're very separatethings night, day but it's not
true.
They're all completelyconnected, and how we behave
throughout the day impacts howwe sleep.
How we sleep also impacts howwe behave throughout the day,
and that's where sleep andathletic performance comes in.
It's another part of aconversation that just hasn't
been there until Tom Bradystarted winning all the

(19:59):
Superbowls and said oh well,it's because all I do is sleep.
There's something to that.
He's a huge, huge advocate forsleep, which is cool.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, he's, he did all kinds of research into how
to prolong.
I mean, you don't get to be 40years old and still play in the
NFL if you haven't done allkinds of research.
I remember him talking aboutthat.
He's a solid eight, solid eightevery night, and you know this.
It was life-changing for me.
I finally, you know, got thediagnosis and went through

(20:29):
different iterations ofbreathing aids and all that and
finally have the little nosething on mine and have the c-pep
and that worked for years andyears.
It's told us to the point nowwhere I think I've taught myself
how to breathe right and so Idon't even have to wear it all
the time.
Uh, but I got a new, new itemthat I got this week.
I got grounding sheets.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, I gotta hear this .

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Something that very few people know about again.
And the science, all thestudies.
It's so cool.
So grounding sheets or earthingsheets or mats.
The science behind this conceptof earthing is that human
beings used to have constantcontact with the ground, with
the earth.
There weren't roads, thereweren't shoes.
You were in the dirt farming,you were trekking across miles

(21:15):
and miles with contact to theearth, and the earth releases
these free ions into your bodythat reduce inflammation.
Now, in America, right now, thebiggest chronic illness issue
that we have is well, I guess itdepends on the region One of
the biggest issues is that wesee inflammation causing other

(21:36):
disease.
So, with the reduction ofinflammation, this is something
that, across the board, can helppeople.
Now these grounding sheets orearthing mats are plugged into a
grounded outlet and then theyalso recreate this free ion
exposure, which has been shownto reduce inflammation in your
body, which has been shown toincrease all kinds of things

(21:57):
circulation, blood flow, woundclosure, sleep.
So these last few years, wherepeople are saying, oh okay, you
know I do have some chronicillness, but it's impacting my
sleep, getting grounding sheetsor earthing mats to stick under
your feet while you're workingon your laptop from home has
been a game changer.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know what they need they need inserts.
They need inserts, shoe inserts.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh yeah, you have to ground them somewhere.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I don't go barefoot ever Like I take a shower
barefoot.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
It's because she's weird, she's gross.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean, as soon as I get out of the shower I grab my
socks, and as soon as I'm dry Iput my socks on with my inserts
in there, because I have bunionsfrom playing pickleball.
So it's like one problemcompounds another.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, do you ever garden?

Speaker 3 (22:43):
hey guys, quick break before we get back to chatting
with sarah.
Did you know that blazingpaddles is more than just a
really cool name and a reallygreat podcast?
We have also now gone out tofacility openings.
If you're interested in havingan event live streamed or have
us actually do the show at yourfacility, get in touch with us.
We bring the whole crew out, weset it up and it's actually
been a lot of fun to do so.

(23:03):
If you're interested in havingplacing paddles on site at your
pickleball event, you know howto get in touch with us.
Let's get back to Sarah andtalk sleep.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Do you ever garden?

Speaker 3 (23:15):
No, oh, okay, gard gardening has recently been on
your knees and stuff like that.
Yeah, you need grounding sheets.
You sleep in the buff I know,but so do.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Now let me ask you this does the sheet have to
touch your like, so do you?
Do you have to sleep naked, anddo you have to have it actually
physically touching your body,or can it go through a sheet or
whatever?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, you should have some skin exposure.
You don't have to be completelynaked If you're sleeping in
something small on your arms ifyou get enough exposure for it
to enter through the pores ofyour skin.
But the soles of your feet arevery effective as well, which is
why some people like just alittle small mat that they can
do for 15 minutes a day.

(23:58):
Is that all it takes?

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Well then, what I should do is get a mat that I
can stand on, but do I have tobe barefoot?

Speaker 3 (24:05):
You have to she's a germaphobe, you'll get used to
it.
She's a germaphobe, that's herproblem.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
You know, what they made is a mat that can instead
of a full sheet, maybe if I had,because, see, I also sleep with
a heating pad, a weightedheating pad, because I like the
weight on me, so I'll have tolook into these things.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's a whole process.
It really is, it is.
It is she's like in her littlecocoon that she's created.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I've got the pillows all around, but how do you feel
when you wake up?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I feel good as long as I can get enough sleep, but I
mean I'm an eight hour plus,yeah, yep.
But where am?

Speaker 1 (24:42):
I getting my ions?
Well, you haven't.
It doesn't sound like you'vegotten them for a while.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Where am I getting my ions?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
I think you're okay.
Maybe inflammation's not anissue for you.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Oh, it is as much as you, you know, as much as we
play, that's one thing for sure,because as much as she plays,
for sure I mean, we have thesewhat do we?
Call those things, thosecompression?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
The Norma Tech compression leg compression
where you use them every singlenight for like three hours.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I'd suggest just trying them.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
You could keep a little tub, a little foot soaker
, next to it.
You put your feet in therefirst, and then on the mat and
then back into the tub.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
I had never even heard of this until his boss
actually doing these thingswhere he walks out in the lawn
for a certain amount of minutes,or whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
That's the easiest way to do it, but it sounds like
we need to do the quicker thebetter.
That's the easiest way to do it, but it sounds like we need to
do the quicker the better.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Texas, you step your foot out in a grass barefoot,
you're going to get bit by abunch of fire ants.
They are mean and nasty.
I will not.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
If I lived where you lived.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'd love to go up north, actually, and take my
shoes off and put my feet in thegrass.
But Texas, no way.
Have you heard?
Everything's big in texas.
These bugs are.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
They're man-eating, they're horrible I stay here,
for, yeah, we don't havehurricanes, we don't have snakes
, that's true oh wow, I didn'teven think of that.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
You're lucky you got all the lakes.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
It's beautiful up there, yeah absolutely, we do
have the snow yeah, well, youbut I love snow too.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
I would.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
I would be have a hard time with the.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
The sad that that thing, the seasonal thing, I I
know for a fact that would betough oh, they do have a
grounding mat for your bed, justlike a grounding pad, like a.
There you go.
All right, I can do that.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
I can do that okay, make sure you check and see how
it might interplay with a yeahI'm not sure, electrically.
They said.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
It'll make you tingle , they said it'll make you
tingle oh no, like it'll makeyou good I don't have to turn
the heating pad on and I justlike the weight of it.
But I do like, like the work.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Do you have a weighted blanket?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's what I can do.
I can do a grounding mat and aweight blanket.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh God this is you know what this is so normal?
Everybody has their, theirsteps, their little things there
.
You know we had one of the ohmy gosh.
One of the teenagers came intoour room at three 30 in the
morning, at 3.30 in the morningtwo weeks ago to ask to take our
fan.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
What no?

Speaker 1 (27:19):
When I tell you the fuse I have is first of all,
what are you still doing up?
Second of all, no, you cannothave our fan.
This box fan is up against myhead for a reason.
We all have our things Right.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Because I always sleep.
We have a what do you call it?
Air purifier in our room, whichis, yeah, when we are, cause I
always sleep.
We have a uh uh.
What do you call?
it Air purifier in our room,which is our fan, and then when
we travel on the road I have thewhite noise or the pink noise
and app.
You know cause I have to havethat.
I cannot lay there with thesize you could sleep.
He could sit on the couch andjust fall asleep and with me

(27:53):
cooking or whatever, and cook,sleep right through it.
I would never.
I cannot.
It's a gift, in fact.
I can't nap, or I can't evennap Like even if I'm, but you
want to.
No, I really don't.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
We we want her to occasionally you know, I've had
a lot of people say I want to bea napper but I can't fall
asleep, and I always recommendjust using an eye mask, because
most people who wear an eye maskevery night have that trained
behavior.
And so it's.
You know, human beings, we'requick studies, we're quick

(28:28):
learns.
We're also very stupid.
So if you do something over andover five nights in a row
pulling that eye mask down, andthen you want to take a nap on
day number six, grab that eyemask, pull it down, you'll be
out.
Oh really, yeah, we're sosimple.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Interesting, so I have to create that habit.
You helped our friend Abe andhis wife.
Yes, they're much happier nowthat he has a CPAP.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
That's wonderful.
I fully believe that we are allgoing to get handed CPAPs when
we turn 50 one day, the same waywe have to go get colonoscopy.
Really, here's your CPAP.
Yep, so many of us have such aquickening relaxing of tissues.
And 50 is not old.
50 is like this is.
You know, when we were youngand you think of 50, you think
of like what a 90 year old wouldlook like.
But no, once we get to that mark, it is a very quick process of

(29:16):
the relaxation of our muscletissue externally and internally
.
So you know, when you start toget the sags and the wrinkles,
all that's happening inside,which means those tissues
collapse on our airway and stopus from breathing, causing sleep
apnea.
So it's not a given that as youage, you will have sleep apnea,
but you are more likely todevelop it as you get older,

(29:36):
which is a small price to pay.
So when people are like, ok,yeah, no, I got to go, I got to
wear that, I don't want to wearthat Darth Vader mask, it isn't
like that at all and thebenefits of having to put that
thing on your face at night areindescribable.
So it's great that he tookadvice that he it's.
Most people have to reach abreaking point where they say,

(29:58):
ok, now I'm actually going to godo something about it, but once
you do, no pun intended, it'slike night and day.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Well, I think his wife reached the breaking point
before he did.
That's usually the case.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
She was so not happy.
The one thing that so now wefixed his breathing, but then
he's got Jimmy legs.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, that usually comes after.
So it's a form of RLS orrestless leg syndrome that comes
with that oxygen flow.
So prior to being on CPAP hehad diminished circulation.
You're not taking in oxygenbecause of that blockage.
Your body starts to use whatit's got and just kind of

(30:42):
minimal work is happening whenwe have proper oxygen flow.
Once that started, once he goton CPAP, then his nerves got
reactivated and now they'refeeling more.
Their sensitivity has returnedbecause of the cellular
regeneration and he's going tobe just a little more sensitive.
But if he wanted to getsomething like some magnesium

(31:04):
supplements or collatedmagnesium, that's usually
helpful.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Magnesium collated.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Collated C-H-E-L-A-T-E-D, and that's just
a higher absorption level.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
L-A-T-E-D and that's just a higher absorption level,
and then that's and not everysupplement brand is the same
right.
So you have to be veryselective, Like we're.
Just, we just got some stufffrom Thorne and I think they
have that.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah.
So I always say go middle ofthe line.
If you're shopping for anything, whether it's a sleep product,
a supplementation, anything likethat, don't get the cheapest
one.
There's a reason.
It's that price point, but themost expensive one as well isn't
necessarily going to be morehelpful than something that's
right down the middle of theline.
So I just say you know, ifyou're going to pull up Amazon,

(31:51):
go in the middle, and those areusually incredibly effective for
the vast majority of thepopulation.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Okay, Well, and you know, one thing I think that is
maybe bringing education to theindividual now is like
everybody's wearable now, butwe've all got our wearables and
it's so fun to look at.
You know, what did I do in allmy sleep and where was I in REM?
And all this kind of um.
How, I mean, do you think thosethings are accurate?
Do you think those are givingus a fair look at what we're

(32:16):
doing?

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, I give them a, B plus.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Here's why.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
When I first got mine I did a little experiment and I
didn't go to sleep.
I propped my arm up on a pillowand I watched movies on my
laptop all night.
I used to stay up all night inthe sleep.
It wasn't that big of a deal.
And then in the morning I readmy report completely inaccurate,
wasn't that big of a deal.
And then in the morning I readmy report completely inaccurate
it showed a lot of sleep.

(32:39):
That didn't happen and I wasn'tnodding off and I didn't
recognize.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I literally, am a sleep expert.
I know when everything washappening.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
And then the next day I just kind of slept as normal
and it said I was incrediblyrestless but I felt great.
Obviously I hadn't slept thenight before.
So without electrodes on ourbrain we can't definitively
determine what stage of sleepwe're in.
That being said, the algorithmsare improving.
The mechanics of these thingsare so impressive and a lot of
times when I wake up in themorning and I was just having a

(33:03):
dream, I know I was in REM sleepbecause we dream in REM.
And if I am woken up knowing Iwas just in a dream, I will pull
up my Fitbit report and see ifit just said I was in REM and
had an abrupt awakening, andmost times it's accurate, I'm
like okay, fitbit oh that'spretty cool.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, I got the ring.
Now I do the aura.
It's been pretty cool for me.
It does and it tells you youknow your heart and your sleep
patterns and all that.
And I just wondered.
I wonder the accuracy of thisstuff, because I'm a nerd.
I love looking at it every day.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Well, right For what's on market that is
considered the highest ratedright now.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Well, and on the pickleball court, one of the
guys got a wearable for thefirst time, gary, because of our
friend who passed away suddenlyof a heart attack at 55 a
couple weeks ago.
It was the saddest thing ever,but it jolted him so much that
he was like and at one pointwhen I was playing, my heart

(33:56):
rate got to 160.
I felt like I was going to likeI had to take a breath for a
minute.
And so he went and got onebecause of those two situations,
Because he's like I got to bemonitoring this Like he has no
idea what his heart rate wouldbe, and but then there's no
reason not to.
So we got done playing and hewas like yeah, it says I got
12,000 steps and I was like minesays 5,600 and I move way more

(34:20):
than he does.
So the accuracy thing is like Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yep, exactly.
Yes, there will be blips andeverything, but I do love that
big picture, especially as we doage, as we do remain active.
We have to remain active tocontinue aging.
But it's good to have thosetools because the technology is
available.
Why wouldn't we?
You know, I think about when myson was born, I was so scared

(34:46):
of SIDS.
And that was something that wasconstantly be in the news, just
like don't let your baby sleepon their stomach, and you know,
and that is such a fear for newmoms.
But now they have thesemonitors, little respiratory
belts that you could put on yourbaby with you know the visual,
and if one heartbeat is skippedor an oxygen level, an alarm
goes up.
Gosh, just think of having thattechnology 20 years ago.

(35:09):
That would have been amazing.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
I would have gotten a lot more sleep because we had
two monitors on him at the time.
They were so bad, you know.
So we had a black and white oneand we had the audible one.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Um, they didn't have colored monitors back then all I
would do is sit there and lookat it.
We would just stare at it is hebreathing?
Is he breathing?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
yes, did he move?
Our boys had to sleep on theirstomach.
They were colicky and that wasthe only way that they liked to
sleep and I I couldn't blamethem.
I mean, I grew up sleeping onmy stomach, so when we think
about neck control.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
that's the biggest thing.
If they're too young and theyhave no ability to move their
head, of course these infantswill smother themselves.
So we say back is best forthose types of situations.
But if that's the only way thatsleep was achievable for those
types of situations, but ifthat's the only way that sleep
was achievable, that's asimportant, because if your child
is not sleeping, they willdevelop what's called failure to

(36:03):
thrive.
So, if your child has colic andthey're on their back, they're
not achieving high quality sleep.
That baby will not develop,they will be very skinny, they
won't put on weight, they won'tgrow neurologically, their
synapses won't form.
So failure to thrive is awfulfor these babies who can't sleep
.
So you know, it's really such atough time for everybody just
to know how to grow and live thebest, especially through sleep

(36:27):
deprivation.
Oh, new motherhood is the worst.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
It's first child too.
You're just so neurotic andscared of everything.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Do you want to hear something interesting with first
children, when you reproduce,the hormone that's secreted in
women, I'll find what it'scalled I forgot uh is something
that helps you wake up to checkon the breathing of your
offspring.
So it's not.
It's an automatic behavior forus.
Is it alive?
Is it alive.
And then, with your secondoffspring, less of that hormone

(36:57):
is secreted, because if you'refirst survived, you understand
that the chances of survival areincreased.
You're not as worried.
And then with your third, it'sminimal, but unfortunately that
hormone still remains in yourneurological system, forever,
meaning you will still havespontaneous awakenings for no
reason if you reproduce.
Wow, so men will still havespontaneous awakenings for no

(37:19):
reason if you reproduce, wow.
So men don't have this, no, butthey hopefully have a wife.
That does.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh, she did.
Yeah, I had that wife.
Yeah, but it was yeah.
That's interesting, though,like our caveman DNA is just
like yeah, that are wired forsurvival and keeping our kids
alive.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Exactly, yep, keeping those offspring alive, because
that's what it's all about.
Just keep populating.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Now, did you ever have a sleep disorder yourself?
I haven't no.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
No, no, Outside of hypocrisy.
No, I've been known to messwith my sleep out of pure
curiosity.
But I have had multiple sleepstudies and I'm quite certain
that I have not yet developedanything of concern.
But that doesn't mean I won't.
My dad was a shift worker too.

(38:09):
He worked for the localnewspaper.
He was the distributionsupervisor, so he had to leave
for work at midnight and gethome at noon, which was awful
when I was trying to sneak backin the house in high school and
have to wait outside my windowfor a bit.
He pretended he didn't see me alot of times but I developed
kind of that night owl thing andmy first job in high school was

(38:30):
at Blockbuster Video.
So I would stay up and watchmovies and sometimes he would
get up and leave for work andhe'd just say, hey, how's the
movie?
He wouldn't make me go to bed,he didn't really care.
So I think I've always had alittle bit of a circadian rhythm
disorder, but nothing that'simpacted how I'm able to
function in society, which issad for people with sleep
disorders that really can.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Hey guys, one more interjection before we get back
to our conversation with Sarah.
Shout out to everybody who issporting their Dink Pro
pickleball wear.
And we have a special additionto the line that's coming out
this holiday season.
Soon to appear on our websiteare the amazing crafts that my
wife is making out of discardedpickleballs Ornaments and trees

(39:11):
and wreaths.
It's pretty amazing.
She's a creative genius andwe're going to have those on our
site starting in late october.
So look for those.
It's a perfect gift.
We all know when it gets aroundto christmas time, instead of
getting somebody a cheesypickleball towel or something
like that, get them an ornament.
They're going to think of youfor the rest of their lives
every christmas when they hangthese cool little dudes up.

(39:33):
So let's's get back and talk toSarah Moe sleep scientist.
Well, you do, and I forget thekind of the origin story.
But what captured you that thisis what you wanted to do,
because it was not verywell-known study back then.
You were one of the first right, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, I actually wanted to be a nurse.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
And so I went I'll exaggerate and say about a week,
it was two days to nursingschool and fainted twice from
needles.
I just thought if I forcedmyself into it I would get over
it and I didn't, it wasembarrassing and painful.
So I ended up looking at othermedical fields where I could

(40:14):
work overnights and help people.
I just thought, you know, Iwanted something similar to
nursing and this sleep programhad just opened in Minneapolis.
It was one of only, at the time, three in the country.
Now we have seven accreditedsleep programs.
But yeah, I got accepted intothe program and instantly became
obsessed.
I just remember learningdifferent stages of sleep and

(40:36):
what happened in each one and Ithought how is this not a part
of elementary school education?
This is so cool and this issomething that people need to
learn about.
I dorked out so hard.
I started a polysomnographyclub at my college.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
That must have been a big, big draw.
How many people were in yourclub?
How many people were?

Speaker 1 (40:55):
in your club, but we would hold educational booths in
the skyway and give outpamphlets.
But here's the cool thing thatclub still exists at my school.
So the people who came after me, they just passed the baton
every year and that little clubat my college still still, I see

(41:18):
every once in a while.
One time they had a booth atthe state fair.
Oh my goodness, how cool isthat.
I know it's a lot cooler nowthan it was.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
You're the OG you did it.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
I'm a pioneer.
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
That's so funny.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Three things Way more than two.
Two of my classmates.
They were my friends.
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Three, I guess it's a club you know Way more than one
Right Two of my classmates.
They were my friends.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
I made them Join my club.
It's really cool.
It's me, it's me.
I felt so.
How often are you playingpickleball?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Probably twice a week with our friends or partners
and such.
But we'll go play each other.
We have this private court downthe street.
It's a huge corporation andthey have a big campus with
basketball courts, pickleballcourt only.
They all work from home now.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
No way.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Private, deserted, gorgeous pickleball court.
So we just walk over thereconstantly.
Only one time in the last twoyears have we seen other people
there and we were like hey, andthey were like hey, get off my
court.
And then we just played eachother and yeah, you just played.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
That's great.
Oh my god, is it like a?
It was like a turf war herebetween tennis and pickleball.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
It's crazy, it's unbelievable.
Anytime we've gone to a publiccourt, you yeah, we have to wait
for it.
We're're like why did we dothis?
We thought maybe we'd ventureout, but nope, it's just our
little private court.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
So are you guys playing singles sometimes?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
We just play singles against each other.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Oh my goodness, that's hard.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
How many?

Speaker 2 (42:49):
times do you win.
It's a great workout.
I've never won, that's what Isay.
If I can get a couple points, Ifeel proud of myself.
I've never won, that's what Isay If I can get a couple of
points.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
I feel proud of myself Exactly.
If it's not as yep it really is, I'm not a fan.
I do love playing with him andplaying doubles and it's been
fun to see.
Just I don't know, it'sprobably because I'm competitive
, but it's fun to see of ourfriends in their relationships
how quickly things can fallapart, how mad people get, how

(43:19):
out of shape that you know.
Oh, you look at your cuteskinny new girlfriend.
Let's play pickleball.
Disaster it's.
It's an equalizer.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
We'll just say it was hard, not easy, and there's not
.
There's very few couples thatplay together.
We call it pickle divorce.
I go oh, are you pickledivorced?
Yeah, we don't play with eachother, and we fought through it,
though, and now there's no oneI'd rather play with, but a year
ago, I wanted to kill him.
I was not happy.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, I think it's interesting again just to see
what it brings up in youindividually, how it makes you,
because I, you know, I'm Iconsider myself to be in great
shape.
You know I can, I could run ahalf marathon.
I'd probably have to train atthis point.
You know, I played volleyballin college.
I just I'm very fortunate thatI'm as able-bodied as I am and

(44:13):
I've always been interested inremaining active, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so it was.
It's very humbling because whenyou start something new and
you're not great at it, yeah, Iwent.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I went through this thing where, um, when we started
, hardly anyone around here wasplaying, so it was us and a
bunch of guys, and so I thoughtI was getting really good.
And then, when this tennis ladystarted coming over, I started
feeling so bad about myselfbecause I'm like they're better
than me and I've been playinglonger and then.
But now you know, just keepwith it, hard work and
determination, and now I'm likeI'm kicking some butt.

(44:48):
So I've never been moreobsessed about anything.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
She's got a number of nicknames.
One is little monster, and so Ithink that's probably the best.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
I love that, I love that for you, and it's such a
like the dichotomy of it.
You're so sweet and pretty.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
And then what a monster, or they call me spider
monkey or a back wall, cause Iget everything back.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Um yeah, Um, yeah, I can't wait to get a nickname.
Steve is Steve's, unstoppable.
I will say this and I hope Iwill never say this to him he's
not going to get to watch this.
He is, and I can't even say forhis age he's 53 and he is the
most most athletic person.

(45:33):
Uh, we play younger, he's just.
He's the best person I've everseen and everything he does it's
annoying so he joined this oneleague with a friend of his from
basketball and this he's likehoney, you got to see these guys
.
They play from six to seven ontuesday and Fridays before work.
They're all in their midthirties and they're all like
these really athletic financeguys and he's like I'm always

(45:57):
the last one.
They're rolling in with hishair all messy and whatever, and
he's unstoppable.
They play doubles and they, yes, and he's like, every single
time he plays, whoever he'splaying with, they win.
So, he said there's this one guy, he's really good, he's like I
watch him all the time and I waslike I'd love to play that guy.
And then, like two weeks ago,he calls me on his he's late for

(46:18):
work.
He's like, honey, we played meand that guy, we played and I
beat him.
I was like what and it was socute, because you know they all
play the doubles and likewhatever and then afterwards
they kind of walked up to eachother, you know like teenagers
with little crushes like hey.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Hey, you're really good.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, you're good too .
We should play sometime.
And they played and he was sohappy that he won, cause this
guy's like 35 and you know he's20 years older than him and he's
still veto.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I'll tell you what.
Like some of the guys up at the, there's a 78 year old guy,
larry, who is a 12 year survivorof pancreatic cancer and he's
really good you would notbelieve it and he's hanging with
and that's the thing about recplay, and when you have these
open play times, cause you getthat, you'll get.

(47:06):
I mean, the other day it was,you had a 74 year old me who's
51 and these two kids that are18 playing and yeah, Everybody
played like family membersacross.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
And we get our, we get our boys out there.
You know, we've got our.
Boys are 20 and 23 now and theymight play just when we ask
them, and they're both amazingand and.
But we will grind and grind andgrind and just, you're not
beating us, you're not beatingus I love that, I love that
mentality.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
I do not give them anything.
I I to the day, you know, andit's better for this.
You know they don't need to.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
I don't know this one , this one here, like if I start
getting a little alpha outthere and she could tell I'm
really after him, she's like allof a sudden she'll hit one in
the net.
Oh, I'm sorry and I'm likedon't you do it.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Don't you?
Even they're my babies.
You would eat them if it wasn'tfor me.
That's what women are for we'reto protect our children.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
I'm with him.
I beat mine as hard as I can.
And I tell him every time youshould be so grateful You've got
a mom like me.
This is so good for you.
Would any?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
of your friends' moms be out here doing this.
He's always like, no, you know,if they knew that I did it,
they'd be so mad.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Oh, they pick it up sometimes and they get some so
mad, but they're.
They're both really competitivetoo.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
We all are.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Well, it's one thing that I want to play all the way,
as far as we can take it, and Iwant to get as good as I can
possibly get.
There's so much to learn inthis game, like right now.
What are the roles right?
Starting to get that that Ithought I never could have.
And then I'm watching theseyouth and how they lean way out
there and they get all thatstrength, just all that power,

(48:57):
just with a little flick and I'mlike, okay, that's my next
thing that I need to learn, youknow.
And somebody was talking to meabout backspin the other day and
I'm like I can't do that.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Or not backspin slice .

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Slice, do that or not .
Backspin slice, slice, slice,yeah, and I can't do that, I
just don't have it.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I don't know why it seems like guys have it more
than girls.
It's because they're they'reflailers.
But you know what you can do.
You can continue having goodsleep.
That's true, because all ofthat repair, that happens when
they will sacrifice, that, whenthey don't think that that's
important, they're going to showup and that's going to be the
day that you take them.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah that's right.
You know what I can't I?
I have to have good sleep andright now I'm, um, I'm leading a
group for my Bible study and Ihave to get up at 5am on Friday
mornings and it kills me and so,and so one day out of the week
where I have this normalschedule, right, it's all cooked
in and I, but when you and itjust started.

(49:55):
So I had my first one lastFriday, and so this morning I
was up at 5am and I have to goback to sleep afterwards because
I'm just a mess Like I'll nevermake it.
I have to play a league matchtonight till 10 o'clock, so, um,
so I go back to sleep, but Ifeel horrible that whole day

(50:15):
until I can get my Friday nightsleep and wake up on Saturday on
my normal time.
So what, what is there anythingthat I can do?
I mean, I can't change my goingto bed earlier.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
No, you can't Nope, so that's your chronotype.
We all have individualchronotypes.
There are four different kindsthat determine how we sleep, our
circadian rhythms of when ourspecific body is going to do
what it's going to do.
So you know the night owlsversus the morning larks.
There is about 35 percent ofthe population that is
considered night owls.
They stay up a little bit later.

(50:44):
Morning larks need to go to bedearlier because they rise so
early, which is more 45% of thepopulation.
There are more people whofunction better early early in
the morning which is unfortunate, because in the workforce
that's very highly reported Ifyou first went in the office,
grind, grind, grind.
And that doesn't necessarilymean that they're doing better

(51:04):
work.
It's a mentality shift.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
It's an optic.
It's an optic.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
It really is.
There are some people who comealive at 3pm and everybody's
shutting the doors.
So whatever it is that yourbody is telling you on a
cellular level is just what wehave to listen to.
It's really hard to forceourselves to become something
that we're not.
Whether that is okay, I canfunction on less sleep, no, you
can't.
Or some people saying I want tosleep more but your body

(51:29):
doesn't need it, that's notgoing to work either.
Shifting those types of naturalcellular rhythms is really,
really difficult, so all wecould do is, I mean, I'll still
say, if you're doing six out ofseven days really well, then
that's better than most people.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Okay, and I don't fully feel like I go back to
sleep.
At least last year when I wasdoing it, I didn't feel like I
could fully get, but I I just tobe in the dark room, I shut all
the curtains and everything,cause it goes from 5.00 AM till
6.45.
And then I tried to get twomore hours of sleep, um, so 6.47
.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I'd be interested to see if a if a grounding mat
would help.
It's a reinitiation can bereally difficult.
A lot of people do have theopportunity to reinitiate sleep
after some sort of morningawakening, like getting the kids
on the bus or like they have todo something.
But then there's more time andthat's always hard for them to
say like okay, I can't get backto sleep, but like it's already

(52:26):
over that time is over, butagain all these little things
that are coming out now thattime is over, but again all
these little things that arecoming out.
Now I had one woman tell me thatshe got the grounding sheets
and how, in her morning hours.
That was when she was the leastphysiologically comfortable.
She's like I couldn't get, Ican't get resituated, and like
all the little tricks and likeher whole bedtime routine, it
didn't work in her morning hoursand I realized that there is

(52:49):
some sort of influx of ahormonal difference that's
happening for her every day atthat time.
She started with a groundingsheets and she was like.
It literally felt like somefire was put out in my body.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Wow, okay, I'm sold.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
I will tell you so.
I've only had it last threenights, four nights, and I have
slept like a stone.
And it's great I was, I getpretty good sleep anyway, but
it's different.
It's like, oh wow, that was a,that was pretty neat.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
And it had some other effects on me.
We're, we're, we're, uh, sorry,okay.
So, the people probably don'tknow, but we don't sleep
together and we're going toaddress that like head on, cause
people would probably like umand we've talked about this in
previous episodes since.
But since we're doing it again,we should talk about it again
because it's saved us getting upmultiple times a night.

(53:38):
It just made me angry at Johnand I got madder and madder and
madder and we'd fight in themiddle of the night and then you
wake up the next morning youfeel like crap and you're still
mad because you know he'd say hedidn't, he didn't do anything
and I'm like, yes, you did.
I'm not making this up and youknow that she's filming me, and
then I'm filming him andeverything, and so you know, we
don't sleep together, but we're.
I feel like it's made us ahappier couple and I think I

(54:01):
feel like it's made us um, uh,we have more um.
You know, everyone thinks thatwell, oh, if you don't sleep
together you're not having sex.
That's's not the case.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Just make setting the record straight, so give us
your thing, literally say thisall the time.
First of all, human beings werenot meant to co-sleep.
When we have thoughts about ourgrandparents and how they had
twin beds on the other sides ofthe rooms, our brain
automatically goes to somethingsexual, like oh well, they're
prudes or they don't want totouch each other.
But that wasn't the case.

(54:31):
Historically, human beingsdidn't co-sleep because of the
dangers it caused to each familyunit.
The family units that had toco-sleep were either so poor
that they didn't have otherrooms in a house.
They had one room house whereeverybody ended up sleeping in
the same bed for warmth and lackof space or options, or it is

(54:54):
more directly caused by theinflux of queen mattresses.
When they were invented in the80s, the queen mattress
marketing was so effective wherethey were saying in these
commercials if you don't sleepwith your partner, you don't
love them.
If you don't co-sleep with yourperson, then there's something
wrong with your relationship.
It changed the psyche ofAmerican people to say that
co-sleeping meant sex,co-sleeping meant love, when in

(55:16):
reality relations are happeningany other place that is your
place for sleeping.
So in the recent years we havefound the National Sleep
Foundation puts out a study ofsleep across America.
Every year they survey millionsof people asking them questions
about their sleep, and we foundthat 25% of married couples do
not co sleep.

(55:38):
One in four, but nobody wants totalk about it because of the
implication where it might saysomething about your intimacy
levels, and it's simply not thecase.
I also had a woman come up tome after I spoke at a conference
once and and you know, I talkabout sleep get everybody
excited.
And everybody comes upafterwards in a line and like oh
gosh, that was so great.
And I saw this woman waitingher turn meekly in the corner

(56:01):
and there were like 15 peoplethat would come up and go and
she kept hiding.
I was like this is going to begood.
Whatever this woman wants totell me, I cannot wait to hear
it.
So she finally waits tilleverybody leaves.
Does she come up?
It's like I have to tell yousomething and I think you might
think it's strange, but I wantto know what you think.
She said my husband and I gotdivorced a few years ago and
then, you know, there was thisbig recession.

(56:22):
Immediately we could not sellour house.
We ended up living together asa divorced couple for six months
and she said in that time wefell back in love because we
weren't sleeping in the sameroom.
She said he was sleeping in theguest room, I was sleeping in
the main room and I was able toget high quality sleep.
I didn't know how much Iresented him for disturbing me.

(56:43):
She said we fought constantlyand I was exhausted.
And as soon as that factor wasremained, we became friends
again.
We fell in love again.
She's like we are havingintimacy all over the house.
She said we're actually goingto get married.
Yeah, that I've never beenhappier.
I never would have thought thatit was because that sleeping in

(57:05):
the same room was detrimentalto not just the marriage but
their health, their well-being.
So she said have you ever heardanything like this before?
And I said I have not, but Iguarantee other people should
hear it, because why would youthink that that could be such a
deterrent like a really anegative factor?
It's really ingrained in usthrough the media that

(57:25):
co-sleeping means love.
It never is a story that's toldwhere it's cold sleeping could
be causing problems.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Wait a minute.
Are you saying that what themedia tells us?

Speaker 1 (57:36):
is not always accurate, I mean.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
I know, I know, I don't even I can't fathom it
I'll have to strike that.
No, it's, it's funny.
It's great though because, likeeven even the simple things, um
, it's great though, because,even the simple things, she
likes to go to bed a littleearlier than I do, and so now
she can.
She doesn't have to like I'mtrying to read my book or not
wake her up.
Don't move, don't move, don'tmove You're flinching and I'm
like I'm not flinching, you knowthat whole thing, and I go back

(58:01):
.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I watch a few things that she wouldn't want to watch
comfortable.
And then I'm good and we're howdoes that not sound?
It's amazing, it's awesome,it's amazing.
And so I had to tell that wehad to talk about this for our
listeners, because it's just.
There should be no shame inthat there should be no shame.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Plus, you have science on your side.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah, you have science we have a sleep
scientist on our side too too.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Look, we have real.
I mean this is a we're a couple, real couple who has gone
through that and I mean just, itis a game changer.
So I wanted to share that.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, and that's just it.
If more people shared it, thenmore people would understand, A,
that it's so much more commonthan people realize and, B, that
there's nothing wrong with it.
It is really kind of strange.
People are just like I don'twant to talk about it because
there is that association withintimacy.
But again it stands that theopposite is always true.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
And we'd be having sex all over the place.
But Grammy lives with us.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Just kidding, poor Grammy.
No, I'm kidding, she's lucky tohave you.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
We still have to be a little proprietary with that.
Yes, and for people who mightnot have heard this, at the
beginning too, this is your joband you speak to companies and
you help employees, and you'regoing to do it again with my
company.
I thought what a great timeright before Daylight Savings,
because then everybody gets alittle messed up for a while,

(59:33):
and it's always the most popularthing when we have you come
speak to the employees, becausenobody talks about this stuff,
and what company wants to telltheir people you need to get
more sleep?
Because, no, you need to workmore.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Didn't you say, that was like?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
the most engaged your employees were oh yeah, it was
the most attendees we've had,the most feedback we've received
, and I can't wait to do itagain, because since the last
time we did this, you know,we've acquired a couple of
companies.
There's going to be people.
This will be the first timethey have a chance to hear
something like this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Well, that warms my heart.
You know obviously I'm biased,but it is something that
everybody needs.
And once companies catch up andrealize that encouraging their
employees to sleep is only goingto help their bottom line and
not hurt it, then we're going tobe in a new phase.
Google implemented thosenapping pods throughout their
entire campus.
The second they got theresearch that showed that
well-rested employees were moreproductive.

(01:00:26):
They said all right, you knowwhat if you are not rested, if
you feel tired, and even thescience behind how,
neurologically, people becomemore creative when they're well
rested.
They literally said napanywhere, anytime and do better,
and that was over seven yearsago.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
That's incredible.
So you know what They've donepretty well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
You know what I thought about They've done all
right for themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That kind of.
You know, as we get more ofthese cars that can drive
themselves to, you know thatpeople can sleep in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
They do they have.
They have people who sleep intheir car.
That scares the hell out of me,but still Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yep, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Well, I want people to, if people want to find out
more aboutcom.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
My company is called sleep health specialists, or you
can just Google me, sarah, andso do you do you do a virtual,
so you virtual into you like setup a webinar and she virtuals
in.
That's awesome.
Okay, and last question what'syour favorite pickleball shot?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Oh yeah, your favorite shot that you hit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Are you at the point where?

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
you're dinking yet.
No, not well, we'll say that.
Um, I think my favorite, the, Ithink the favorite part of my
game is myself.
So here's the thing it's.
It is, it's powerful, but it'snot like you can't hit it, but I
just never oh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
I love that I can't see him sometime.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
He'll serve, he'll hit the net, he'll go a lot.
I'm always in the back corner,so I think I've kind of
perfected.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
That.
That's so nice and I have areally crappy serve, but it's
98%, 99%.
I mean sometimes I never had itout like, but it's so accurate
that I can keep it in play.
And they even said that thatyou know they they're trying to
find ways to de-weaponize the um, the serve because they never.

(01:02:22):
It was never meant to be aweapon, so they're trying to
make the the pros like um,either drop the ball or like
making the underhand a littlemore difficult so that they
can't power power it so just soyou know so that's a really good
thing to have.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
For now.
Well then, you'll move on Untilthey outlaw you until you're
too good, too cool for school.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Little monster number two.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, no we need to.
At some point we've got to play, and that would be great if
you're ever, if you're ever downhere, if we're ever up there.
We got to do this.
I don't know how we don't talkmore you kind of stare me with
the bugs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Why don't?

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
you come here we have the lakes, we have the private
court I invite you yeah, thatsounds good, much rather come
your direction oh, she's well,and I'll tell you this because
the heat here is just oppressiveand it's finally cooling off a
little bit.
But it got to a point thissummer.
I finally just wised up.
I will not play outside duringthe day, I will play indoors.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
It's the dew point, sarah.
And does that affect your sleeptoo?
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
No, literally.
There's a reason I haven't leftyeah I can't handle high
temperatures.
I can't handle humidity.
It's uh, for me physiologicallyunbearable.
I will stay inside all day,every day.
Right now, it is 78 and sunny,with a humidity of 24 inches.
This is this place really is.

(01:03:52):
I cannot wait for you to visit.
Plus, we have all of ourMichelin restaurants.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Okay, so listen.
The humidity here is 41% andthe dew point is 65.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
And it's 92 degrees Real feel 99.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
There are times Usually we're not humid here.
As far as I've lived in Texas,it has been dry heat in this
part of Texas.
This feels like Houston orFlorida, and it's so hard
because I'll be out there andall of a sudden I feel like I
can't breathe.
That's awful.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
That's really that just doesn't sound like it's
healthy enough, come on down.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Come on down the home of the fire ant and the dew
point I'm at least appropriatelyattired now I

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
love that you're wearing that jacket.
It looks so good on you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Thank you.
Oh, the other two were pitchers.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Yes, we've got to get the picks.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
They've been pretty popular.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
That's awesome.
They've got the banger shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Oh, did you Really?
Oh, that's awesome.
I need to send you my newestthing.
I'm making pickleball ornamentsfor Christmas and they were a
huge hit at this Picklefest.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I was just going to say those will be a big hit.
Yeah, they were, everyone waslike oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
But you know what they are, sarah?
They're broken pickleballs thatpeople were going to throw away
, and people have beencollecting them for me because I
didn't know what I was going todo with them, but I knew that
they didn't need to go into alandfill, so I was like people
will put them in my mailbox.
We go out there and have brokenpickleballs been delivered and
people are digging through trashcans for me so but I mean, but

(01:05:33):
really honestly, these were we.
The balls break so often theyshould just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I see a problem here, right if we can find a way to
recycle them and also bringpeople joy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
So now I'm really into these, like I'll send you
some, yeah that's so great.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Born entrepreneur god she's.
Or just a crafter.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
She's a creative genius.
There's no doubt, sarah, you'reone of my favorite people.
I don't know why we don't talkmore, and it's always great to
have you I love it.
We're going to have some videoclips and I'll share them with
you and then we'll have the fullepisode will be out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I'll let you know about that and we'll share it,
share it, share it.
Well, you know I adore you guysand always have a great time
chatting, and can't wait for youto come.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
I can't wait either.
I love your energy and keep onpickling.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
You too.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Have a great weekend and thanks guys, you too We'll
chat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Thank you, bye now.