February 23, 2025 • 29 mins
In this compelling episode of Bleeding Daylight, author and storyteller Andy Buckwalter shares his transformative journey from being trapped in anger and negativity to discovering authentic joy. Through candid conversation, Andy reveals how a simple gratitude practice became the catalyst for profound change in his life, marriage, and parenting. His story demonstrates that joy isn't just for naturally optimistic people - it's available to anyone willing to put in the work.
Andy's new book "The Joy Journey" emerged from his personal struggle to find happiness, leading him to explore the deeper meaning of joy rooted in faith, gratitude, and intentional living. He discusses the crucial differences between happiness and joy, the importance of rest in cultivating joy, and how embracing humility can transform our perspective on life's challenges. This episode offers practical insights and hope for anyone seeking to discover more joy in their daily life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
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(00:30):
There are dozens of other episodes waiting for you at bleedingdaylight.net.
Are you a happy person?
Would you describe yourself as a joyful person?
Can you become a happier person or can you discover ways to embrace joy in your life?
Today's guest is on a journey to discover more joy in life and he's already finding some of the keys.
(01:03):
Andy Buckwalter is a storyteller who understands joy from the inside out, not as a distant concept but as a hard-won personal journey.
From his early days as a youth pastor to becoming a stay-at-home dad who discovered writing as a lifeline, Andy has navigated seasons of challenge and transformation that ultimately led him to explore the deeper meaning of joy.
(01:27):
His book The Joy Journey emerges from a vulnerable place of personal struggle where he learned to rediscover genuine joy rooted in faith, gratitude, and intentional living.
Now as an author, podcaster, and content creator, Andy is passionate about helping others understand joy, not as a fleeting emotion but as a deliberate choice and spiritual practice that can sustain us through life's most difficult moments.
(01:56):
Andy, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Wow, that was awesome.
Thanks so much for having me.
It's probably helpful to begin by defining the terms that we'll use as we talk.
Some people would use the words joy and happiness interchangeably, but I'm wondering if you can tell me what you see as the difference between those two words.
(02:18):
Joy certainly has a definition.
If you just google it, if you go into a dictionary, certainly there's a definition, but also it depends who you're talking to.
A lot of people use these words interchangeably.
They use them differently.
Faith circles tend to use them one way.
Other people, happiness experts, even wellness people, tend to use them a different way.
So when I'm talking about joy and happiness, happiness are just kind of the things we like.
(02:41):
They're just things that make us happy.
It's a good feeling.
It always feels great to be happy.
It doesn't even need to be defined much further than that.
You know when you feel happy.
Joy is a step further.
Joy has room for happiness, but it also has room for other things as well.
So when I talk about joy, I call it the real thing, which is just this feeling of happiness, peace, hope, all rooted in the permanent love of Jesus.
(03:07):
And so the big difference being ice cream makes us happy, and that's great.
Yeah, enjoy the ice cream.
Of course it does, but it's also temporary.
It's also dependent.
So happiness being dependent on things, joy being rooted in something permanent.
And for me, that's the love of God.
Tell me a little bit about your journey towards searching for joy, because there came a moment where you thought, I need to chase after this thing.
(03:28):
What brought you to that point?
Honestly, there was just a moment where I had a realization that I wasn't the person that I thought I was.
I wasn't the person I wanted to be anymore.
I think I just had this opinion of myself.
I'm a good father.
I'm a good husband.
I'm a good friend.
I'm doing well.
(03:48):
Things are good.
And I think there was a time when that was true.
And then I became, you know, I'm a good husband.
I'm a nice guy.
I'm a decent father, but I make mistakes.
I lose my cool from time to time.
Every once in a while, I get upset, you know, whatever, but that's part of it.
And then it progressed even further.
I found myself getting upset pretty much every day.
Okay, well, that's odd, but I'm still a good dad.
(04:10):
I'm still a good husband.
I'm still a good guy, still a good friend, all of that.
And then finally realized just because that was true doesn't mean it is.
I had changed.
It had gotten out of hand.
It was my kids didn't love it when I walked into the room anymore.
My wife was walking around on eggshells and there was tension all the time.
And I eventually realized I am the singular reason that this is not going well.
(04:32):
I am the singular problem in my life.
Really just realized, hey, if I don't make some changes, this could cost my marriage.
This could cost my relationship with my kids, even friends and family.
And this, it just has to change.
And so, it honestly started with a realization of this is not who I want to be.
And then I just did what anyone would do.
I just Googled, how do you be happier?
(04:54):
Which sounds like a ridiculous place to start, but it led me down a long path of being introduced to different authors, being introduced to podcasts, videos and content and learning that happiness and joy is not something that I was entitled to.
And I think that was kind of the big root of the whole thing was just like this entitlement of things should be going my way and I should be able to do the things that I want.
(05:17):
And I shouldn't be being woken up in the middle of the night by a one-year-old because I'm special, I guess.
This entitlement, eventually I learned that I'm not entitled to joy.
I'm not entitled to happiness, that it takes a little bit of work.
It takes some effort, but it is available to us if I'm willing to put in that time, if I'm willing to put in that effort and set my own pride and entitlement aside, then yeah, that's kind of where the journey began of, I don't want to be this guy.
(05:43):
And luckily, realized that before it cost me too greatly.
That's what led to the book.
That's what led to the new content.
And boy, I'm excited to share it with people because it worked for me.
You mentioned there that this was gradual.
You started to realize this about yourself, then the next thing, then the next thing.
How often do you think that we have this long slide into becoming that person that we don't want to be?
(06:08):
I think that's more often the case than not.
That's what's so insidious about it.
When you don't notice it, when it's so gradual.
We see that in a lot of areas of life, even like weight gain, that's something I've struggled with in my life as well.
And it's like, I gained a pound this year, next year, two pounds this year, whatever.
It's gradual.
You don't realize it.
And it's the same way with our character as well.
(06:28):
It's like, oh man.
Especially once I've kind of established that identity.
It was hard for me.
I was just clinging to that identity of good father, good husband, good guy, good friend, church guy, volunteer at church, good guy, just clinging to that.
But it was exactly that, that slow slide.
It's hard to detect.
And that's more often the case than not actually.
I'm wondering, being a person of faith, was there a sense of guilt attached to that?
(06:54):
Because, well, I'm a person of faith.
I should be this particular way or that particular way, and that's not happening.
Was there a sense of guilt attached to those feelings once you realized?
Oh, very much so.
Yeah.
Guilt and shame on top of it.
Yeah.
I should not be behaving this way, and I should not be this kind of person.
(07:17):
There was both of those layers in there.
I think, especially from a faith background.
And then when I realized just like how much I'd been given, how silly the whole thing was.
When I looked around at my life, I have this great wife.
I have two healthy kids.
We even have a nice house.
We have two cars.
We have friends.
We have family.
I was incredibly fortunate at the time and was still managing to be just trying my best to ruin it.
(07:39):
When I finally had that realization, there was definitely a stage of guilt, definitely a stage of shame, and I had to kind of work through that before even realizing I could start to make a change.
I had to kind of process those feelings first.
There's a lot of things there that the world would point at and say, you're living the dream.
You've got a great home.
You've got the cars.
(08:00):
You've got a great wife, a great family, and yet you're missing out on what you truly want.
That seems to be the way that it goes, that we chase after these things the world tells us are going to bring us this ultimate happiness, and yet it doesn't.
Where did the journey begin?
You said that you Googled how to be happier.
When you started to actually look into it, where did it begin for you to start making a difference?
(08:27):
I think the most concrete thing I started doing initially to really start making a difference is the intentional practice of gratitude.
I started just starting each day very simply with a journal, same one I use now, and just jotting down five things, ten things, three things, however many, felt right that day, and just really focusing on gratitude, the things I have to be grateful for.
(08:57):
What was very strange about it was how difficult that was in the beginning, which sounds ridiculous because I just explained how great my life was.
But at the same time, I would sit down and say, I was so deep in the mindset of just pity for myself, and just this things never go my way, things aren't good.
Even things that are going well are going to go bad soon.
(09:18):
Just this cynicism all the time that it was actually difficult to come up with things to be grateful for on day one, on day two, for the first week or two.
And then it was interesting that gratitude was something that I got better at.
It's actually something we can practice.
It's something we can learn how to do more.
And so, if I knew I was going to have to write down five things to be grateful for in the morning, I would be looking for them throughout the day.
(09:44):
So, rather than walking through the day looking for things that were going wrong, I was suddenly looking for things that I could be grateful for.
Partly because I knew I was going to have to write them in my journal, but then also just because I was beginning to learn how this makes me feel, how I like walking through the world like this better.
One of the very first steps for me was just a very simple realization of you have an enormous amount to be thankful for, and you're missing it.
(10:09):
And so, having that very simple concrete step of write down a couple of things that I was grateful for every morning, eventually they were just flying.
I could get 10 or 20 every day.
And now it's effortless still because as I continue practicing, because that habit is in place of looking for it throughout the day, now I look forward to my gratitude journal instead of it being a kind of a hassle that I have to get through in the morning.
(10:32):
Is that something you've passed on to the rest of the family to get your kids to think about the things that they can be grateful for?
That was something that was actually really, really special was I would do it in the morning.
My daughter, especially, she gets up early and she wakes up at 110%.
So, she'd come out and just run and sprint and jump straight into my lap and say, what are you doing?
(10:54):
And I would explain to her, I'm writing down things I'm thankful for.
And then she wanted to do it.
She said, what can I play too?
And we would take turns.
I would write down one that I was thankful for, and I would tell her what it was.
And then she would come up with one and it was something crazy.
It was Barney or whoever it was, it was fun, but it was something we got to do that together.
And I think a lot of my friends and family are kind of tired of me talking about my gratitude journal at this point, because it was so instrumental for me in turning things around.
(11:22):
Yeah, absolutely something that I want to instill in the family, and got to do it with my daughter, especially.
One of the things about gratitude and having that thankful attitude, there have been studies that have shown that that does actually make a big change in life.
But I guess the difference here is if we're going to be thankful, who are we thankful to?
(11:44):
And for you, there's something that goes even further than just, hey, that's cool.
It's actually, I'm thankful to someone.
I'm thankful for the provider of this.
How important is it as we look towards God, as we look towards what Jesus has done for us, that we are thankful to Him rather than just being generally grateful?
(12:07):
That's a great point, because you don't have to be a person of faith to benefit from a gratitude journal.
But to get the level that I was able to, I do think so.
And that's one of the ways I think about it is as God as a good gift giver.
And so, one way that I'll look throughout my day is not only for things to be grateful for, but things that are gifts.
(12:30):
And thinking, oh, even when my son walks into the room and runs and jumps at me, that's a gift.
That's something to be grateful for.
That's not only something that's cool, but it's something that was given to me by a good giver, by our God.
That's part of my gratitude practice throughout the day as well, is looking for gifts, looking for things to be grateful for, yes, but also being grateful that it was given to me by someone intentionally.
(12:56):
That really separates it for me from just a practice of, oh, these are some cool things that are in my life, but these are some things that were given to me intentionally.
One thing that may be surprising to some in a search of joy, a journey towards joy, is the importance of rest.
Tell me about that.
Yeah.
So, that one was very personal to me.
(13:16):
I ended up writing an enormous amount that went into this book, and what ended up making the cut was really what just was personal to me.
A lot of the things I read about and researched, that kind of got cut, but the things that were really important to me made the cut, and one of those, it's the last chapter actually, is about rest.
Just the idea that rest was set up from the beginning.
(13:39):
We have early Old Testament, the Sabbath being established, and then later on we see the biggest qualm that the Pharisees have over and over with Jesus is his negligence, we can call it that, with the Sabbath, if you want to call it that.
Him saying the verse is Sabbath was established for the man, not man for Sabbath.
(14:01):
It was designed intentionally because we actually need that rest, and if we're going to try to live a joyful life, the one thing I found is I can't do that when I'm just completely burned out, when I don't allow myself to stop.
And I'm definitely someone, I certainly was, to an extent still am, someone who just thinks there should be no limit to what I can do.
(14:25):
I shouldn't need a lot of sleep.
I shouldn't need days off.
I shouldn't need a break.
I should just be able to power through and do it no matter what it is.
Nothing should be able to stop me, and that's just nothing short of arrogance and nonsense really, because I know at the end of the day that I am my best self when I'm well rested, when I'm giving myself the opportunity even to just do things that I enjoy.
(14:50):
When you're talking about rest, it's not just taking a nap, though that can be part of it, and yeah, I encourage that, of course, but it's also making time to see friends.
That's restful.
That fills me up.
That's encouraging.
It's making time to go out and play pickleball.
If you're into pickleball, I gave it a try.
It's
kind of fun, and I find that restful, even exercise, taking proper care of our body and
(15:11):
getting the proper amount of sleep that we need, but the idea that we can just go and never stop,
that we can be these just productivity machines, that we can just continue and never need a break
and never need to stop, not only is that not impressive, it's also irresponsible,
and that's certainly something that I was pushing myself toward, and that was part of how
(15:32):
I ended up finding myself so volatile and angry all the time was I was not giving myself a break.
I was never letting myself off the hook.
No matter what was going on, I should have put in more hours to that.
I should have edited that video better.
I should have made more phone calls.
I should have completed more email.
Whatever it was, I always should have done more, and eventually learned that my best self is well-rested.
(15:59):
When I'm the best husband I can be, it's when I'm well-rested.
Best father, best friend, all of it is when I've given myself
not the break that I want, but the break that I need, and also the break that I want,
and so I think especially here in America, it is consistently neglected just over and
over seeing people just that hustle culture, that grind culture, and absolutely chase after goals,
(16:23):
all of that, but then understand that from the beginning, we were told and expected and need
to get that rest if we want to maximize the joy in our life.
Even though we're told right from the beginning that rest is essential and that we should take that rest, unfortunately, it seems that people of faith are often the worst offenders.
(16:45):
We feel, no, I've got to keep working for God.
I've got to keep doing, and we build this arrogance.
I mean, you mentioned the idea of arrogance before, but there's this arrogance that, hey, God needs me to save the world.
I've got to keep going.
How do we start to break that as people of faith who feel that we need to be pushed and constantly working for God?
(17:06):
I can't let God down.
How do we start to change that mindset?
Part of that, what I'm hearing there is this idea that if I don't do it, it's not going to get done, that God needs me, specifically me.
I'm the main character.
As soon as I'm the main character, everybody's in trouble.
That's not a place that I want to be.
(17:28):
That's not a place anybody wants me to be.
I think this idea that God needs me to do it and nobody else can do it, and if I don't just keep pushing and I don't keep going, I think if the problem is arrogance, the solution is humility.
It's being open to say, look, God, yes, can absolutely use me and also my neighbor and also the other guy.
(17:48):
If God wants it to happen, it's going to happen.
If I need a rest, it's still going to happen.
If I'm not the one that ends up doing the thing, if I'm not the one taking the picture at the end, if I'm not the one on the front of the newspaper, whatever that thing might be.
Nobody reads a newspaper anymore, but whatever it ends up being, even if I'm not, I think part of it is I want the glory at the end too.
(18:11):
I want to be the one that did it.
I want to be the one that people saw do it.
I think there is, I think at the root of the reluctance to rest is an arrogance, certainly for me.
If that's the problem, then the solution I think is starting with humility.
How far along this journey for you did you decide this is stuff that other people need to read about as well and that you started to actually put it down in book form?
(18:38):
It was pretty far along.
It was a long journey to get to where I didn't want to be and it was a similar length to get back to who I did want to be.
I remember there being a moment where I was just taking laundry out of the dryer and I heard myself say, oh, wow, these clothes, they smell so good and they're warm and they're soft and I have them and they're great.
(19:01):
And I was shocked by this.
I had not heard myself speak that way.
And I suddenly realized this had worked, that the gratitude had become a habit, that joy had become part of my life, that I was just happy about things.
Certainly getting laundry out of our basement was not something that I had ever been pleased with before.
But all of a sudden, I found myself actually experiencing joy in a very mundane, very normal situation.
(19:26):
That's when I remember thinking, okay, this worked.
And honestly, it's so cliche to say that if it worked for me, it'll work for other people, but it's true.
I'm just very much a natural pessimist, a natural glass half empty, dark side, just not a naturally peppy Instagram-y kind of person.
(19:46):
Having that realization of it, this has actually changed for me.
And that's when I just kind of started the thought of maybe this could be a book and just started jotting things down, writing down some of the most helpful things that I had found and formulating that in the chapters and then eventually decided I'm going to give it a try.
I'm going to write it down.
So, it was far enough along that I had noticed that this did work, which was I'm going to guess a year.
(20:11):
I'm going to guess a year later after the realization of I don't want to be this person.
For those who've had the opportunity to read The Joy Journey, what's the feedback been like?
Has it been something that has brought others joy?
That's what I've heard so far.
Yeah, that's been primarily friends and family that I've heard from.
So, they're a little biased and maybe they're just nice to me.
(20:32):
But at the same time, I've had several who've said a few things.
One, that it was enjoyable to actually read.
My sense of humor, I just couldn't keep it out of it.
And my editor tried, but she couldn't either.
There's stories, there's funny parts.
It's also, they said, encouraging, simple, practical.
This is the things I was really going for is I do want this to be something where you can walk away and say, I can do this tomorrow.
(20:56):
I could start doing this tomorrow.
And I believe this is possible because there's plenty of people I think out there who find themselves in a similar situation that I did, which is I would love to be happier.
I don't even know if that's an option.
I don't know if it's an option for me.
But so far, the responses have been, yeah, they've been positive.
They've been joyful.
And I think people have enjoyed reading it.
(21:18):
It's a pretty easy read.
Hoping to get more reviews like that.
One of the things you mentioned a short while ago was that you said you're not this naturally kind of happy bouncy kind of guy.
I'm wondering how many people are listening who think, well, look, that's great, but that's just not who I am.
We tend to fall back onto, oh, well, this is the sort of person I am.
(21:41):
What would you say to someone who's thinking, well, that's great if that's what you're chasing, but that's just not who I am.
I would say in part, you're not wrong because there is.
One of the things I came across in my research was there is a genetic component to how happy you are.
In fact, it plays a pretty solid role in how happy you will just be walking around doing nothing.
(22:03):
You're just kind of base level of happiness.
So on one point, you're not wrong.
You're with me.
You're someone who is just naturally kind of grumpy and we try our best.
I would also say joy is not something that's just going to happen though.
Happiness is not going to just happen.
So my guess is if you're one of those people, you've gone through life and just said, it's too bad.
It's too bad I'm not one of those people.
(22:25):
I sure would like to be a happy person.
I sure would like to be a joyful person.
But joy and happiness are not something that just happen.
Yes, some people get a head start.
My wife is one of those people who she just kind of bounces around and brightens people's day and it's just wonderful.
And I counteract that and we break even together.
(22:47):
But for the rest of us, there are practical steps that we can actually take.
Gratitude being a great one.
Happiness is available.
Joy is available.
So know just your personality.
If you're not one, you're probably not going to become one of these people.
That's okay.
That's all right.
We need people like us and that's good.
But also joy can look different for everybody.
(23:10):
Joy isn't always balloons and fireworks.
Joy is sometimes just peace and sometimes joy is just small laughter.
Not everyone has a big loud laugh.
That's okay.
But joy and happiness, I think both are things we can work on.
That's definitely something I had to learn that I could become a happier person and it worked.
(23:31):
And so, yes, to those of you that are just like me and wake up just kind of grumpy, there's hope.
You can absolutely become a more joyful person.
It's available.
I do love the fact that you've mentioned a number of times that you're still on this journey.
That this isn't a, hey, let's get this completed now.
I'm this completely new guy and everything is wonderful.
(23:53):
You're still on this journey.
But I'm sure that it has displayed itself in a number of ways.
What is the recognition around you like?
For instance, your wife, has she seen that change in you?
You mentioned that the kids can come bouncing in and they know how to be grateful now.
But what about for other people around you?
(24:13):
I've had several comments.
My wife being a big one, when I was first writing or coming up with this idea and thinking, hey, could this be a book?
I said, I'm thinking about writing a book about this.
And as we were talking about it, the general idea she said was six months ago, I would have said, what are you talking about?
Absolutely not.
You need to live this before you can write a book about it.
(24:34):
But now, yeah, there has been a change.
Yeah, I do think you should share this.
I got a comment from my father who I spend a decent amount of time with.
And he even said, hey man, you just seem better.
You seem better, which is, yeah.
I said, yeah, I feel better.
I do.
I think people have noticed probably the biggest differences with my kids.
(24:55):
That's the biggest one.
There was never any real distance between us, but there was definitely, they had an understanding that if they spilled something, dad was going to lose it.
And you don't want to be around when dad loses it.
He's going to fly off the handle.
And now, in fact, my daughter spilled tonight.
Of course, we don't like when that happens, but there wasn't fear.
There wasn't anger.
(25:16):
There wasn't hostility.
It was just, he spilled.
That is annoying.
It is.
But I think that's the biggest difference is just that I really wanted it to feel like a very safe space when we're home.
You're always safe with me.
I'm not going to lose it.
I'm not going to fly off the handle.
I'm not going to be scary, angry dad anymore.
(25:38):
And so, I think that's the biggest one.
And they certainly can't articulate that.
You can just kind of feel that it's a lot closer, a lot more, much more what I want it to be now.
I mentioned before that you're an author, you're a podcaster, you're a content creator.
What are you working on at the moment?
So, the next thing is going to be the podcast.
So, it hasn't launched yet.
(25:58):
It'll be called the Joy Journey Podcast.
Have everything lined up.
That'll be the next big thing.
Other than that, I'm just trying to share this stuff, how to be happier, things that worked for me.
Try to make people laugh along the way.
A lot of social media content, promoting the book.
But yeah, the next big project is going to be the podcast.
It's one thing to read somebody's book.
(26:18):
It's another to get to sit down and talk with them for an hour and ask the questions that I had the whole time and get to really just dive into one particular thing.
And I think, like you said, I still have a long way to go.
Part of the decision to call it the Joy Journey is there is no point where we stop.
There is no, oh, I've made it.
I'm happy now.
This is it.
I'm done.
It's very much a journey.
(26:39):
It's going to continue to be a journey for me.
And so, I think that'll be the next level for me.
I think I can learn a lot by talking with these people, by creating interviews, and also can share a little bit more joy along the way.
So, that's very much the next project.
I think there's a suspicion when we hear that someone has the answer and that, here, do this and life will be wonderful.
(27:01):
And yet, there's an authenticity in saying, hey, I'm still on this journey.
There's something that invites us in.
Is that something that you want to keep doing to inviting people into this journey and saying, hey, look, I'm a few steps ahead of you.
Here's what I've learned.
And tell me what you're learning?
That's exactly it.
Yeah, no, I've never tried to establish myself as an expert.
(27:25):
I'm not an expert.
I'm not some guru.
I very much am still just a guy trying his best, very excited about what Jesus is teaching him.
And yeah, you only have to be a step ahead of someone to show them the next step.
And so, that's kind of where I'm at.
I hope to continue climbing up, getting better at this, having less embarrassing stories to share and more triumph success stories to share.
(27:50):
The book, the content I'm trying to put out is just this worked for me.
This is a bit of my story.
This is the stuff that I found really helpful.
And if you also find it helpful, fantastic.
If you don't, you know, just don't leave a review.
But I do think it could be, yeah, I do think it could be very helpful for a lot of people.
And honestly, that's why the book came to be.
(28:10):
If people want to get a hold of a copy of The Joy Journey or to engage with the other content that you're creating, what's the easiest place for people to go to find you?
My name's Andy Buckwalter.
All of my social media is just Andy Buckwalter.
Sometimes there's a dot in the middle.
Sometimes there's a dash.
I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
(28:31):
I have a website, andybuckwalter.com if you like going on websites.
And the book is on Amazon.
I will definitely put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily.
Andy, I want to say thank you for sharing your journey with other people so that they can discover the joy that you're continuing to discover.
And thank you for your time today on Bleeding Daylight.
(28:53):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
Please help us to shine more light into the by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Welcome and thanks for listening.
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Please share Bleeding Daylight on social media and through word of mouth.
(00:30):
There are dozens of other episodes waiting for you at bleedingdaylight.net.
Are you a happy person?
Would you describe yourself as a joyful person?
Can you become a happier person or can you discover ways to embrace joy in your life?
Today's guest is on a journey to discover more joy in life and he's already finding some of the keys.
(01:03):
Andy Buckwalter is a storyteller who understands joy from the inside out, not as a distant concept but as a hard-won personal journey.
From his early days as a youth pastor to becoming a stay-at-home dad who discovered writing as a lifeline, Andy has navigated seasons of challenge and transformation that ultimately led him to explore the deeper meaning of joy.
(01:27):
His book The Joy Journey emerges from a vulnerable place of personal struggle where he learned to rediscover genuine joy rooted in faith, gratitude, and intentional living.
Now as an author, podcaster, and content creator, Andy is passionate about helping others understand joy, not as a fleeting emotion but as a deliberate choice and spiritual practice that can sustain us through life's most difficult moments.
(01:56):
Andy, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Wow, that was awesome.
Thanks so much for having me.
It's probably helpful to begin by defining the terms that we'll use as we talk.
Some people would use the words joy and happiness interchangeably, but I'm wondering if you can tell me what you see as the difference between those two words.
(02:18):
Joy certainly has a definition.
If you just google it, if you go into a dictionary, certainly there's a definition, but also it depends who you're talking to.
A lot of people use these words interchangeably.
They use them differently.
Faith circles tend to use them one way.
Other people, happiness experts, even wellness people, tend to use them a different way.
So when I'm talking about joy and happiness, happiness are just kind of the things we like.
(02:41):
They're just things that make us happy.
It's a good feeling.
It always feels great to be happy.
It doesn't even need to be defined much further than that.
You know when you feel happy.
Joy is a step further.
Joy has room for happiness, but it also has room for other things as well.
So when I talk about joy, I call it the real thing, which is just this feeling of happiness, peace, hope, all rooted in the permanent love of Jesus.
(03:07):
And so the big difference being ice cream makes us happy, and that's great.
Yeah, enjoy the ice cream.
Of course it does, but it's also temporary.
It's also dependent.
So happiness being dependent on things, joy being rooted in something permanent.
And for me, that's the love of God.
Tell me a little bit about your journey towards searching for joy, because there came a moment where you thought, I need to chase after this thing.
(03:28):
What brought you to that point?
Honestly, there was just a moment where I had a realization that I wasn't the person that I thought I was.
I wasn't the person I wanted to be anymore.
I think I just had this opinion of myself.
I'm a good father.
I'm a good husband.
I'm a good friend.
I'm doing well.
(03:48):
Things are good.
And I think there was a time when that was true.
And then I became, you know, I'm a good husband.
I'm a nice guy.
I'm a decent father, but I make mistakes.
I lose my cool from time to time.
Every once in a while, I get upset, you know, whatever, but that's part of it.
And then it progressed even further.
I found myself getting upset pretty much every day.
Okay, well, that's odd, but I'm still a good dad.
(04:10):
I'm still a good husband.
I'm still a good guy, still a good friend, all of that.
And then finally realized just because that was true doesn't mean it is.
I had changed.
It had gotten out of hand.
It was my kids didn't love it when I walked into the room anymore.
My wife was walking around on eggshells and there was tension all the time.
And I eventually realized I am the singular reason that this is not going well.
(04:32):
I am the singular problem in my life.
Really just realized, hey, if I don't make some changes, this could cost my marriage.
This could cost my relationship with my kids, even friends and family.
And this, it just has to change.
And so, it honestly started with a realization of this is not who I want to be.
And then I just did what anyone would do.
I just Googled, how do you be happier?
(04:54):
Which sounds like a ridiculous place to start, but it led me down a long path of being introduced to different authors, being introduced to podcasts, videos and content and learning that happiness and joy is not something that I was entitled to.
And I think that was kind of the big root of the whole thing was just like this entitlement of things should be going my way and I should be able to do the things that I want.
(05:17):
And I shouldn't be being woken up in the middle of the night by a one-year-old because I'm special, I guess.
This entitlement, eventually I learned that I'm not entitled to joy.
I'm not entitled to happiness, that it takes a little bit of work.
It takes some effort, but it is available to us if I'm willing to put in that time, if I'm willing to put in that effort and set my own pride and entitlement aside, then yeah, that's kind of where the journey began of, I don't want to be this guy.
(05:43):
And luckily, realized that before it cost me too greatly.
That's what led to the book.
That's what led to the new content.
And boy, I'm excited to share it with people because it worked for me.
You mentioned there that this was gradual.
You started to realize this about yourself, then the next thing, then the next thing.
How often do you think that we have this long slide into becoming that person that we don't want to be?
(06:08):
I think that's more often the case than not.
That's what's so insidious about it.
When you don't notice it, when it's so gradual.
We see that in a lot of areas of life, even like weight gain, that's something I've struggled with in my life as well.
And it's like, I gained a pound this year, next year, two pounds this year, whatever.
It's gradual.
You don't realize it.
And it's the same way with our character as well.
(06:28):
It's like, oh man.
Especially once I've kind of established that identity.
It was hard for me.
I was just clinging to that identity of good father, good husband, good guy, good friend, church guy, volunteer at church, good guy, just clinging to that.
But it was exactly that, that slow slide.
It's hard to detect.
And that's more often the case than not actually.
I'm wondering, being a person of faith, was there a sense of guilt attached to that?
(06:54):
Because, well, I'm a person of faith.
I should be this particular way or that particular way, and that's not happening.
Was there a sense of guilt attached to those feelings once you realized?
Oh, very much so.
Yeah.
Guilt and shame on top of it.
Yeah.
I should not be behaving this way, and I should not be this kind of person.
(07:17):
There was both of those layers in there.
I think, especially from a faith background.
And then when I realized just like how much I'd been given, how silly the whole thing was.
When I looked around at my life, I have this great wife.
I have two healthy kids.
We even have a nice house.
We have two cars.
We have friends.
We have family.
I was incredibly fortunate at the time and was still managing to be just trying my best to ruin it.
(07:39):
When I finally had that realization, there was definitely a stage of guilt, definitely a stage of shame, and I had to kind of work through that before even realizing I could start to make a change.
I had to kind of process those feelings first.
There's a lot of things there that the world would point at and say, you're living the dream.
You've got a great home.
You've got the cars.
(08:00):
You've got a great wife, a great family, and yet you're missing out on what you truly want.
That seems to be the way that it goes, that we chase after these things the world tells us are going to bring us this ultimate happiness, and yet it doesn't.
Where did the journey begin?
You said that you Googled how to be happier.
When you started to actually look into it, where did it begin for you to start making a difference?
(08:27):
I think the most concrete thing I started doing initially to really start making a difference is the intentional practice of gratitude.
I started just starting each day very simply with a journal, same one I use now, and just jotting down five things, ten things, three things, however many, felt right that day, and just really focusing on gratitude, the things I have to be grateful for.
(08:57):
What was very strange about it was how difficult that was in the beginning, which sounds ridiculous because I just explained how great my life was.
But at the same time, I would sit down and say, I was so deep in the mindset of just pity for myself, and just this things never go my way, things aren't good.
Even things that are going well are going to go bad soon.
(09:18):
Just this cynicism all the time that it was actually difficult to come up with things to be grateful for on day one, on day two, for the first week or two.
And then it was interesting that gratitude was something that I got better at.
It's actually something we can practice.
It's something we can learn how to do more.
And so, if I knew I was going to have to write down five things to be grateful for in the morning, I would be looking for them throughout the day.
(09:44):
So, rather than walking through the day looking for things that were going wrong, I was suddenly looking for things that I could be grateful for.
Partly because I knew I was going to have to write them in my journal, but then also just because I was beginning to learn how this makes me feel, how I like walking through the world like this better.
One of the very first steps for me was just a very simple realization of you have an enormous amount to be thankful for, and you're missing it.
(10:09):
And so, having that very simple concrete step of write down a couple of things that I was grateful for every morning, eventually they were just flying.
I could get 10 or 20 every day.
And now it's effortless still because as I continue practicing, because that habit is in place of looking for it throughout the day, now I look forward to my gratitude journal instead of it being a kind of a hassle that I have to get through in the morning.
(10:32):
Is that something you've passed on to the rest of the family to get your kids to think about the things that they can be grateful for?
That was something that was actually really, really special was I would do it in the morning.
My daughter, especially, she gets up early and she wakes up at 110%.
So, she'd come out and just run and sprint and jump straight into my lap and say, what are you doing?
(10:54):
And I would explain to her, I'm writing down things I'm thankful for.
And then she wanted to do it.
She said, what can I play too?
And we would take turns.
I would write down one that I was thankful for, and I would tell her what it was.
And then she would come up with one and it was something crazy.
It was Barney or whoever it was, it was fun, but it was something we got to do that together.
And I think a lot of my friends and family are kind of tired of me talking about my gratitude journal at this point, because it was so instrumental for me in turning things around.
(11:22):
Yeah, absolutely something that I want to instill in the family, and got to do it with my daughter, especially.
One of the things about gratitude and having that thankful attitude, there have been studies that have shown that that does actually make a big change in life.
But I guess the difference here is if we're going to be thankful, who are we thankful to?
(11:44):
And for you, there's something that goes even further than just, hey, that's cool.
It's actually, I'm thankful to someone.
I'm thankful for the provider of this.
How important is it as we look towards God, as we look towards what Jesus has done for us, that we are thankful to Him rather than just being generally grateful?
(12:07):
That's a great point, because you don't have to be a person of faith to benefit from a gratitude journal.
But to get the level that I was able to, I do think so.
And that's one of the ways I think about it is as God as a good gift giver.
And so, one way that I'll look throughout my day is not only for things to be grateful for, but things that are gifts.
(12:30):
And thinking, oh, even when my son walks into the room and runs and jumps at me, that's a gift.
That's something to be grateful for.
That's not only something that's cool, but it's something that was given to me by a good giver, by our God.
That's part of my gratitude practice throughout the day as well, is looking for gifts, looking for things to be grateful for, yes, but also being grateful that it was given to me by someone intentionally.
(12:56):
That really separates it for me from just a practice of, oh, these are some cool things that are in my life, but these are some things that were given to me intentionally.
One thing that may be surprising to some in a search of joy, a journey towards joy, is the importance of rest.
Tell me about that.
Yeah.
So, that one was very personal to me.
(13:16):
I ended up writing an enormous amount that went into this book, and what ended up making the cut was really what just was personal to me.
A lot of the things I read about and researched, that kind of got cut, but the things that were really important to me made the cut, and one of those, it's the last chapter actually, is about rest.
Just the idea that rest was set up from the beginning.
(13:39):
We have early Old Testament, the Sabbath being established, and then later on we see the biggest qualm that the Pharisees have over and over with Jesus is his negligence, we can call it that, with the Sabbath, if you want to call it that.
Him saying the verse is Sabbath was established for the man, not man for Sabbath.
(14:01):
It was designed intentionally because we actually need that rest, and if we're going to try to live a joyful life, the one thing I found is I can't do that when I'm just completely burned out, when I don't allow myself to stop.
And I'm definitely someone, I certainly was, to an extent still am, someone who just thinks there should be no limit to what I can do.
(14:25):
I shouldn't need a lot of sleep.
I shouldn't need days off.
I shouldn't need a break.
I should just be able to power through and do it no matter what it is.
Nothing should be able to stop me, and that's just nothing short of arrogance and nonsense really, because I know at the end of the day that I am my best self when I'm well rested, when I'm giving myself the opportunity even to just do things that I enjoy.
(14:50):
When you're talking about rest, it's not just taking a nap, though that can be part of it, and yeah, I encourage that, of course, but it's also making time to see friends.
That's restful.
That fills me up.
That's encouraging.
It's making time to go out and play pickleball.
If you're into pickleball, I gave it a try.
It's
kind of fun, and I find that restful, even exercise, taking proper care of our body and
(15:11):
getting the proper amount of sleep that we need, but the idea that we can just go and never stop,
that we can be these just productivity machines, that we can just continue and never need a break
and never need to stop, not only is that not impressive, it's also irresponsible,
and that's certainly something that I was pushing myself toward, and that was part of how
(15:32):
I ended up finding myself so volatile and angry all the time was I was not giving myself a break.
I was never letting myself off the hook.
No matter what was going on, I should have put in more hours to that.
I should have edited that video better.
I should have made more phone calls.
I should have completed more email.
Whatever it was, I always should have done more, and eventually learned that my best self is well-rested.
(15:59):
When I'm the best husband I can be, it's when I'm well-rested.
Best father, best friend, all of it is when I've given myself
not the break that I want, but the break that I need, and also the break that I want,
and so I think especially here in America, it is consistently neglected just over and
over seeing people just that hustle culture, that grind culture, and absolutely chase after goals,
(16:23):
all of that, but then understand that from the beginning, we were told and expected and need
to get that rest if we want to maximize the joy in our life.
Even though we're told right from the beginning that rest is essential and that we should take that rest, unfortunately, it seems that people of faith are often the worst offenders.
(16:45):
We feel, no, I've got to keep working for God.
I've got to keep doing, and we build this arrogance.
I mean, you mentioned the idea of arrogance before, but there's this arrogance that, hey, God needs me to save the world.
I've got to keep going.
How do we start to break that as people of faith who feel that we need to be pushed and constantly working for God?
(17:06):
I can't let God down.
How do we start to change that mindset?
Part of that, what I'm hearing there is this idea that if I don't do it, it's not going to get done, that God needs me, specifically me.
I'm the main character.
As soon as I'm the main character, everybody's in trouble.
That's not a place that I want to be.
(17:28):
That's not a place anybody wants me to be.
I think this idea that God needs me to do it and nobody else can do it, and if I don't just keep pushing and I don't keep going, I think if the problem is arrogance, the solution is humility.
It's being open to say, look, God, yes, can absolutely use me and also my neighbor and also the other guy.
(17:48):
If God wants it to happen, it's going to happen.
If I need a rest, it's still going to happen.
If I'm not the one that ends up doing the thing, if I'm not the one taking the picture at the end, if I'm not the one on the front of the newspaper, whatever that thing might be.
Nobody reads a newspaper anymore, but whatever it ends up being, even if I'm not, I think part of it is I want the glory at the end too.
(18:11):
I want to be the one that did it.
I want to be the one that people saw do it.
I think there is, I think at the root of the reluctance to rest is an arrogance, certainly for me.
If that's the problem, then the solution I think is starting with humility.
How far along this journey for you did you decide this is stuff that other people need to read about as well and that you started to actually put it down in book form?
(18:38):
It was pretty far along.
It was a long journey to get to where I didn't want to be and it was a similar length to get back to who I did want to be.
I remember there being a moment where I was just taking laundry out of the dryer and I heard myself say, oh, wow, these clothes, they smell so good and they're warm and they're soft and I have them and they're great.
(19:01):
And I was shocked by this.
I had not heard myself speak that way.
And I suddenly realized this had worked, that the gratitude had become a habit, that joy had become part of my life, that I was just happy about things.
Certainly getting laundry out of our basement was not something that I had ever been pleased with before.
But all of a sudden, I found myself actually experiencing joy in a very mundane, very normal situation.
(19:26):
That's when I remember thinking, okay, this worked.
And honestly, it's so cliche to say that if it worked for me, it'll work for other people, but it's true.
I'm just very much a natural pessimist, a natural glass half empty, dark side, just not a naturally peppy Instagram-y kind of person.
(19:46):
Having that realization of it, this has actually changed for me.
And that's when I just kind of started the thought of maybe this could be a book and just started jotting things down, writing down some of the most helpful things that I had found and formulating that in the chapters and then eventually decided I'm going to give it a try.
I'm going to write it down.
So, it was far enough along that I had noticed that this did work, which was I'm going to guess a year.
(20:11):
I'm going to guess a year later after the realization of I don't want to be this person.
For those who've had the opportunity to read The Joy Journey, what's the feedback been like?
Has it been something that has brought others joy?
That's what I've heard so far.
Yeah, that's been primarily friends and family that I've heard from.
So, they're a little biased and maybe they're just nice to me.
(20:32):
But at the same time, I've had several who've said a few things.
One, that it was enjoyable to actually read.
My sense of humor, I just couldn't keep it out of it.
And my editor tried, but she couldn't either.
There's stories, there's funny parts.
It's also, they said, encouraging, simple, practical.
This is the things I was really going for is I do want this to be something where you can walk away and say, I can do this tomorrow.
(20:56):
I could start doing this tomorrow.
And I believe this is possible because there's plenty of people I think out there who find themselves in a similar situation that I did, which is I would love to be happier.
I don't even know if that's an option.
I don't know if it's an option for me.
But so far, the responses have been, yeah, they've been positive.
They've been joyful.
And I think people have enjoyed reading it.
(21:18):
It's a pretty easy read.
Hoping to get more reviews like that.
One of the things you mentioned a short while ago was that you said you're not this naturally kind of happy bouncy kind of guy.
I'm wondering how many people are listening who think, well, look, that's great, but that's just not who I am.
We tend to fall back onto, oh, well, this is the sort of person I am.
(21:41):
What would you say to someone who's thinking, well, that's great if that's what you're chasing, but that's just not who I am.
I would say in part, you're not wrong because there is.
One of the things I came across in my research was there is a genetic component to how happy you are.
In fact, it plays a pretty solid role in how happy you will just be walking around doing nothing.
(22:03):
You're just kind of base level of happiness.
So on one point, you're not wrong.
You're with me.
You're someone who is just naturally kind of grumpy and we try our best.
I would also say joy is not something that's just going to happen though.
Happiness is not going to just happen.
So my guess is if you're one of those people, you've gone through life and just said, it's too bad.
It's too bad I'm not one of those people.
(22:25):
I sure would like to be a happy person.
I sure would like to be a joyful person.
But joy and happiness are not something that just happen.
Yes, some people get a head start.
My wife is one of those people who she just kind of bounces around and brightens people's day and it's just wonderful.
And I counteract that and we break even together.
(22:47):
But for the rest of us, there are practical steps that we can actually take.
Gratitude being a great one.
Happiness is available.
Joy is available.
So know just your personality.
If you're not one, you're probably not going to become one of these people.
That's okay.
That's all right.
We need people like us and that's good.
But also joy can look different for everybody.
(23:10):
Joy isn't always balloons and fireworks.
Joy is sometimes just peace and sometimes joy is just small laughter.
Not everyone has a big loud laugh.
That's okay.
But joy and happiness, I think both are things we can work on.
That's definitely something I had to learn that I could become a happier person and it worked.
(23:31):
And so, yes, to those of you that are just like me and wake up just kind of grumpy, there's hope.
You can absolutely become a more joyful person.
It's available.
I do love the fact that you've mentioned a number of times that you're still on this journey.
That this isn't a, hey, let's get this completed now.
I'm this completely new guy and everything is wonderful.
(23:53):
You're still on this journey.
But I'm sure that it has displayed itself in a number of ways.
What is the recognition around you like?
For instance, your wife, has she seen that change in you?
You mentioned that the kids can come bouncing in and they know how to be grateful now.
But what about for other people around you?
(24:13):
I've had several comments.
My wife being a big one, when I was first writing or coming up with this idea and thinking, hey, could this be a book?
I said, I'm thinking about writing a book about this.
And as we were talking about it, the general idea she said was six months ago, I would have said, what are you talking about?
Absolutely not.
You need to live this before you can write a book about it.
(24:34):
But now, yeah, there has been a change.
Yeah, I do think you should share this.
I got a comment from my father who I spend a decent amount of time with.
And he even said, hey man, you just seem better.
You seem better, which is, yeah.
I said, yeah, I feel better.
I do.
I think people have noticed probably the biggest differences with my kids.
(24:55):
That's the biggest one.
There was never any real distance between us, but there was definitely, they had an understanding that if they spilled something, dad was going to lose it.
And you don't want to be around when dad loses it.
He's going to fly off the handle.
And now, in fact, my daughter spilled tonight.
Of course, we don't like when that happens, but there wasn't fear.
There wasn't anger.
(25:16):
There wasn't hostility.
It was just, he spilled.
That is annoying.
It is.
But I think that's the biggest difference is just that I really wanted it to feel like a very safe space when we're home.
You're always safe with me.
I'm not going to lose it.
I'm not going to fly off the handle.
I'm not going to be scary, angry dad anymore.
(25:38):
And so, I think that's the biggest one.
And they certainly can't articulate that.
You can just kind of feel that it's a lot closer, a lot more, much more what I want it to be now.
I mentioned before that you're an author, you're a podcaster, you're a content creator.
What are you working on at the moment?
So, the next thing is going to be the podcast.
So, it hasn't launched yet.
(25:58):
It'll be called the Joy Journey Podcast.
Have everything lined up.
That'll be the next big thing.
Other than that, I'm just trying to share this stuff, how to be happier, things that worked for me.
Try to make people laugh along the way.
A lot of social media content, promoting the book.
But yeah, the next big project is going to be the podcast.
It's one thing to read somebody's book.
(26:18):
It's another to get to sit down and talk with them for an hour and ask the questions that I had the whole time and get to really just dive into one particular thing.
And I think, like you said, I still have a long way to go.
Part of the decision to call it the Joy Journey is there is no point where we stop.
There is no, oh, I've made it.
I'm happy now.
This is it.
I'm done.
It's very much a journey.
(26:39):
It's going to continue to be a journey for me.
And so, I think that'll be the next level for me.
I think I can learn a lot by talking with these people, by creating interviews, and also can share a little bit more joy along the way.
So, that's very much the next project.
I think there's a suspicion when we hear that someone has the answer and that, here, do this and life will be wonderful.
(27:01):
And yet, there's an authenticity in saying, hey, I'm still on this journey.
There's something that invites us in.
Is that something that you want to keep doing to inviting people into this journey and saying, hey, look, I'm a few steps ahead of you.
Here's what I've learned.
And tell me what you're learning?
That's exactly it.
Yeah, no, I've never tried to establish myself as an expert.
(27:25):
I'm not an expert.
I'm not some guru.
I very much am still just a guy trying his best, very excited about what Jesus is teaching him.
And yeah, you only have to be a step ahead of someone to show them the next step.
And so, that's kind of where I'm at.
I hope to continue climbing up, getting better at this, having less embarrassing stories to share and more triumph success stories to share.
(27:50):
The book, the content I'm trying to put out is just this worked for me.
This is a bit of my story.
This is the stuff that I found really helpful.
And if you also find it helpful, fantastic.
If you don't, you know, just don't leave a review.
But I do think it could be, yeah, I do think it could be very helpful for a lot of people.
And honestly, that's why the book came to be.
(28:10):
If people want to get a hold of a copy of The Joy Journey or to engage with the other content that you're creating, what's the easiest place for people to go to find you?
My name's Andy Buckwalter.
All of my social media is just Andy Buckwalter.
Sometimes there's a dot in the middle.
Sometimes there's a dash.
I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
(28:31):
I have a website, andybuckwalter.com if you like going on websites.
And the book is on Amazon.
I will definitely put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily.
Andy, I want to say thank you for sharing your journey with other people so that they can discover the joy that you're continuing to discover.
And thank you for your time today on Bleeding Daylight.
(28:53):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
Please help us to shine more light into the by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
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