August 13, 2023 • 32 mins
Britt Mooney has been a teacher, he’s worked alongside his wife in Korea as a missionary. He’s an author and a church planter. He’s also the host of the Kingdom Over Coffee podcast.
Even though many people of faith are left shaking their heads at the state of the world today, Britt believes that in the face of the tragedy and hate all over the globe, Christians have the answer. He’s recently released the book, We Were Reborn For This: The Jesus Model for Living Heaven on Earth.
WEBLINKS We Were Reborn for This Britt Mooney Website Kingdom Over Coffee Facebook
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Emily Olsen (00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Welcome. Please consider sharing this and other episodes through your social media accounts, or through word of mouth with friends so that more people can kick against the darkness. You will find our
social media links at bleeding daylight.netToday I'm talking to a storyteller who believes we should all get better at telling life's essential stories.
(00:53):
Today's guest has been a teacher, he'sworked alongside his wife in Korea as a missionary. He's an author and a church planter. Britt Mooney is also the host of the Kingdom Over Coffee podcast. Even though
many people of faith are left shaking theirheads at the state of the world today. Britt believes that in the face of the tragedy and hate all over this globe, Christians do have the answer. He's recently released the book
(01:19):
we were reborn for this the Jesus model forliving heaven on earth. I'm so pleased to have him join us on Bleeding daylight today. Britt, thank you so much for your time.
Britt Mooney (01:29):
Hey, man, it is great to be here. And as someone who has lived over on that side of the world, or you are, I'm happy to be on a podcast in a different timezone. It makes me happy. I feel like I'm
half at home again.
Rodney Olsen (01:45):
Good, good. I am very keen to jump into some of your experiences, and especially finding out more about your new book. But firstly, let's head back in time. Tell me a bit about your background where
was home for you growing up.
Britt Mooney (01:58):
I was born in the United States in the state of West Virginia. And then we moved to Alabama and I lived there for a bit. But really, I kind of grew up through my teens in the Atlanta, Georgia
area and the United States. And I grew up inchurch. I grew up in a fairly conservative, evangelical background in church. There's always pros and cons to things when you're growing up and part of maturity is realizing
(02:25):
you know what, it wasn't all bad. It wasn'tall good, and just kind of delineating some of that. But part of what was a blessing about where I grew up. And how I grew up even as conservative as a church was we were
taught to really dig down into what theBible actually said, we weren't just given pat answers to things. I wasn't just given pat answers to things, I was really encouraged to seek out the Scripture, what
(02:51):
does it really say, and have thoseconversations with men and women in the church. And it was a small enough church that I had, I had relationships with a lot of people who are adults, and pretty much
older than me, that really mentored me andlooked past my long hair. I was a heavy metal guy, I played the guitar and the bass and wrote really loud songs. I was doing it all for Jesus, but they look past a lot of
(03:17):
that and just really tried to see my heart,I was really blessed that I had a very positive experience of people who are really willing to have conversations and allow me to ask interesting questions that maybe a
lot of teenagers, if you know, I was thatkind of kid, I was that kid that would ask the question that, you know, a lot of kids probably wouldn't ask, you know, why is it that way? Why do I have to do that? You
(03:42):
know, and I would question a lot of things.And God was very kind to me to put me in a situation where I had adults around me that would have those conversations with me and seek out those sorts of answers with me. So
that's kind of where I'm at where and how Igrew up.
Rodney Olsen (03:56):
It's interesting that you using terms there like conservative and evangelical because perhaps some years ago, that meant that it was a group of people who wanted to share Jesus who were very certain
that they wanted to believe the right thingsin Scripture, and yet, so many terms like those, they become loaded terms, haven't they?
Britt Mooney (04:17):
Oh, absolutely. There's sort of this fine line that that people try to draw between what we we kind of call fundamentalism and I had those experiences with churches like that, when I was when I
was younger, and Christians like that, whosaw my long hair and the style of music that I would play even though I was seen by Jesus. There were some Christians who didn't believe you could be a Christian and play
(04:46):
the styles of music and it seems kind ofsilly now. But you're right is kind of taken on some other meanings. And yet, I think for some of us who grew up in it, especially the healthy parts of it, I think we realized is
what a gift it was to have a clearfoundation. I mean, we use the terms may be conservative, but there was a real firm idea that there was that there were foundational truths. And I think that for me, at least, I
(05:13):
think for a lot of us who grew up in thatthere's a certain amount of security and a good foundation there as we, as we tried to navigate what the culture was doing, and all the all of these things, but you're right.
And nowadays, it's almost become like a cussword to call people a conservative Christian, you know, that's bad as you're evil and oppressive, and I didn't have that experience at all in my particular context.
(05:39):
So yeah, you're right, we've kind of changedthe meaning to some of those things.
Rodney Olsen (05:43):
And I guess digging into those foundations means that you're continuing to dig, you're continuing to find what does this 2000 year old book still have to say to me today? What is the truth that I need to
draw out that is just as applicable fortoday? Is that part of what set you on this trip to do things like head to Korea to be a missionary and to enter plant churches?
Britt Mooney (06:07):
The short answer is, it wasn't really my dream to move to Korea or to plant churches. My experience with God is that I have my own ideas. And then God leads me on his path for me. The Bible says that we make
our plans, man makes his plans, people maketheir plans, but their steps are ordered by the Lord. And oftentimes, we think we know what we want. But God actually knows what we want and need. And we're not self aware
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enough sometimes to know what we want orneed. And so God directs us into pathways that really will satisfy us that really will bring us joy. I was taught to hear the voice of God and to follow what he's telling me to
do. Oftentimes, that was different than thenmy idea of what I thought my future was going to be, I thought I was going to be a rock star. When I was in my teens and early 20s, I thought I was going to be a rock star
(07:05):
for Jesus. And I had a pastor, look at meone time, he goes, No, you're you're a pastor, that's who you are. And I thought, no, that's not who I am. And I'm what I'm going to do. But and then that's where God
leads me as a church planter, and as aleader, and not kicking and screaming. But God's kind of had to lead me along these ways. And revealed to me that this is actually where you're going to find a lot of
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the satisfaction that you're searching for,in the same way moving to Korea, my wife and I were teachers here in America, and my wife is fluent in German. And so our assumption was, we wanted to move overseas. But our
assumption was, we were going to go toGermany, or we're going to go to Europe somewhere, live cool and live European. And, of course, God had another plan. And God called us to a place where I'm way too tall.
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I'm six foot four. So I'm far too tall. Ididn't like the food I was going to stick out. But he brought me there because he had a plan. And he wanted to teach me things there about how to be an alien and a
stranger in this world, and how to live asif this world is not my home. And the kingdom really is and that heaven is really my home. And so he had things that he wanted to teach me that he knew were going to
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actually satisfy my soul. Yes, thefoundation was there, the foundation was all of those foundational things about the gospel and the doctrine of scripture. But essentially, the foundation for me was, he's
the Lord of my life, and he gets to tell mewhat to do. Because I've given my life to him, I have surrendered my life to Him and repentance and faith. And so he leads me and he he's such a good father, that he leaves
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me in places that I may not have chosen onmy own. In the end, he knows what's good. He knows the end, he knows what's going to satisfy me. He knows what's going to bring me joy, and give me good things.
Rodney Olsen (09:00):
I know that you're someone who is very keen on storytelling, and you believe that there's a lot of storytelling throughout Scripture. And maybe we should lean more towards storytelling rather than
just telling people what to do.
Britt Mooney (09:15):
Amen. This is something that's been huge for me as a writer, before I was a church planter. Before I was a lot of these things. I was a writer and I still am I write fictional stories. I write things
similar to Lord of the Rings and fantasy andscience fiction. I've done a lot of study about story. While you do that, and you read the Bible a lot like I do, you start to realize that there's all this sort of stuff
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in the Scripture, too. And it says inMatthew 13, that Jesus spoke these parables. There's a number of parables there in Matthew 13. And in the middle of around verse 3435. I think Matthew says, Jesus
taught these things with parables, which arestories that he made up and And then he says, he never taught without a parable. Now, that doesn't mean he only taught in stories. But Matthew says, and it's repeated
(10:09):
in Mark, that he always taught with a storyline. In other words, every time he taught, he would tell a story somewhere in there. And then in Matthew, He explains that this is a fulfillment of the Old Testament
prophet, which is actually David, from oneof the Psalms, it says, that I will open my mouth and speak in parables and reveal the secrets that were hidden from the days of old or whatever Jesus was explaining things
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was stories. And he was revealing eternalrealities, and very common stories, that's part of our call as human beings is to live a story, live in such a way that heaven is real. And heaven is made evident in our life
by what we choose, and the way we act andhow we are generous. And that's even how we're supposed to pray, right? You know, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, your kingdom come your will be done on
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earth as it is in heaven. Like we're, we'reliving as if heaven is real, because it is, we're living that sort of story. And then we're also supposed to tell the sort of stories. And for the Bible, there's three
types of stories that they would tell. Andthe one would be actual narratives, right? So Jesus, or Paul, or somebody would tell stories about something that happened in the Old Testament, and then they would bring out
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an eternal reality. And principle from thosestories that really happened in history, they would also tell stories about themselves, we get some of the gospel stories from Jesus actually explaining what
happened to him. I don't know that thewriters of the Gospels would have known some of those stories without Jesus or Mary or someone else, telling them the stories like Luke would not have known any of that,
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because he didn't know Jesus personally. Sothey would tell stories about what happened to Jesus. And Paul would tell the story about his own life. His own conversion was a central part of his preaching, I used to
kill Christians. And then Jesus knocked meoff my horse. And now I'm preaching the gospel, like this is a very radical story that has a lot of power. And then also, there's stories, like the parables and other
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things that are made up, but reveal sort ofa deeper truth than the common elements that are part of them, like a woman loses a coin, she finds it and she celebrates and invites her friends, you know, like, but Jesus is
explaining that this is how the Kingdom isthat there's an eternal reality in this. Beyond the common that we see. I think that for us, as Christians, we have to see these things and realize that the Bible is full of
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narrative, and it's full of stories. Itstarts out within the beginning and telling us this grand epic story. And so often, we're more interested in the apologetics and arguments create enemies, but stories make
friends. And so when we tell stories, we'rebeing relational with people, we're bringing people into a conversation, we're revealing some deeper truths to them with a story that we really can't do with decorative
(13:14):
statements. Like I can say, God is love. Andthat is true. But those three words God is Love does not, cannot, because it's human limited language, it cannot fully express the reality that God is love. We tell a
story that God sent His Son to die for us tobe with us to be a manual. And we tell the story of this gospel that reveals the depth of his love for God so loved the world, that He gave His Son to die for us so that we
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wouldn't perish. And then he rose from thedead. Like, there's a very radical story here. And that's the gospel. And that shows us his love, on a depth that just the mere statement that God is Love can't really do
fully. Yes, I absolutely believe that weshould be better at telling our own stories, we should be better about telling the stories of Jesus. I think it encourages people, it gives people hope. It reveals the
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miraculous, you know, when somebody hears astory about somebody raising from the dead, it seems unbelievable. But it opens up their mind to all these different possibilities besides the life that they feel stuck in,
and it gives people hope, reveals eternalthings. I absolutely believe that storytelling is a huge part of what we should be teaching each other to do and encouraging each other to do not that the
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doctrine or theology is pushed to the side,but that they can be meshed together that we can express doctrine and theology like Jesus did, with very simple stories, some of those stories that Jesus told her like a sentence
long, they weren't very long. And yet therewas very deep meaning within them, I think we would make a lot more friends. And we would bring a lot more people into eternal discussions. If we just told more stories
Rodney Olsen (15:09):
I'm interested in just a quick look at some of the the parables, as you mentioned, is some of the storytelling that we do see in the Scripture. And it's interesting that when we're telling a
parable these days, we say, here's theparable. And here's what it means. And yet, in Scripture, Jesus doesn't always explain what it means. And sometimes he only explains it to the disciples afterwards,
(15:30):
when they say, Hey, look at that story youtold us like what you didn't get it? Okay, I'll tell you. What places there for leaving things open ended in a story. And again, the story that you were just telling the parable
of the woman who loses the coin, and sayingthe kingdom is like so much throughout Scripture, people are trying to get a grasp on this idea of Kingdom. And all Jesus says, well, it's like this. And let me tell you
(15:55):
another story. never seems to come down tothis is the definition of the kingdom. But it's like this.
Britt Mooney (16:04):
That is so good. Rodney, I think that is so insightful, because you're right, neither Jesus nor Paul, the two people who talked about the Kingdom of God the most. And Paul was an academic, he was
trained in philosophy, you see that in hiswriting, he's able to engage the Epicurean isms, in the, in the Stoics, and Athens. But neither Jesus nor Paul, give a definition of the kingdom, the kingdom of God is this. And
(16:32):
that's because it's such a differentreality, no definition of the kingdom would ever do it justice. But what they did was they told stories, they talked about it. One of the things we love as humans, well, we
love it, and we don't love it. We want todiscover things for ourselves. As a teacher, I'm not in school teaching. Now, I'm not a teacher in a school today. But I have a background in teaching my wife, still a
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teacher in public school, people own whatthey learn when they learn it for themselves. They own it, they remember it. And a good teacher doesn't just simply tell you something and get you to regurgitate it
back to you, a good teacher will give youenough to send you on a search for yourself. And then when you find the answer for yourself, you own it. It's now yours. And this is what Jesus was doing with the
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parables the disciples actually begged him,the disciples actually begged Jesus, will you please stop telling stories? Just tell us what you mean? And he said, No, I'm telling this in stories, because I'm hiding
it on purpose. I want people to dig, I wantpeople to search, I'm leaving the mystery open ended, so that those who truly want to know, we'll ask, we'll dig a little further, we'll show some effort. Some of those people
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who actually did that, were those disciplesthe, the 12, closest to him would ask him later, what did What are you talking about? We didn't understand that. And sometimes Jesus would say, do you understand this, and
he would let those parables kick off andactivate some some deeper conversations. When I say we don't like it. Our brains are lazy. And we're lazy enough. That part of us is like, just tell us what you want us to
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know. And we'll repeat it back to you. Okay,now I've checked it off, I've passed the quiz. That's not what God wants, because we don't own it, then we don't own that information. We don't own our faith. In
those moments. We own our faith when Godgives us enough, but he doesn't really give us the whole picture yet. And he's wanting to see if we're going to dig you know, the mystery genre in writing is like the second
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moneymaker only under romance, right? Wewant to be involved in stories that have some mystery, and, and don't give us all the answers right away. We want to kind of dig and figure it out for ourselves, because
then we own it. And God wants us to own ourwalk of faith. The ownership is all in the Scripture. He gives the talents to the servants. And so it's a gift. They didn't earn this, he tells them now go work as if
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it's yours and invest it. And then the twowho did that, they doubled their money that he gave them. And when they tried to give it back, he said no, this belongs to you. Now. In other words, this you own this, you
worked with it, you applied it now it's nowyou own it, and belongs to you, even though it was originally a gift and the one who buried it, who just was like I'll just regurgitate it back to you. He lost it all.
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That's also the reason why a lot ofChristian entertainment falls flat is because I think we give people the answers too much. We don't tell the kind of stories that get people to Ask questions and have
conversations. We can point to the answer.But we don't let people kind of get people into this mode of, oh, there's a mystery in this, and what is it? What's going on what's behind this? Those are the stories that are
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very powerful, that are saying somethingwithout openly saying it and allows us to kind of dig into it. The very insightful what you said that they never give a direct definition of the kingdom. But they told
stories, and got us to search and figure itout. I love it.
Rodney Olsen (20:33):
I want to dig into your book, we would reborn for this, the Jesus model for living heaven on earth, give us a bit of a thumbnail sketch. What will people find between the pages? Well, it's
Britt Mooney (20:45):
a lot of what I've already been talking about the motivation behind the book, it was, first of all, so message that God gave me, a big part of my focus of my ministry. And what God has given me to share
with people is that I don't think weunderstand what we have and who we are in Christ. And it's always bothered me, that there's this idea that if you really love Jesus, and if you really are interested in
(21:13):
the Bible, and you really have this radicalexperience with Jesus, then you should be a pastor, then you should be some sort of professional Christian. And I just don't see that in the scripture for the New Testament.
For every believer and every disciple, it'sa radical thing. It's a radical transformation. It's, it's darkness to light, it's death to life, it's bondage to freedom, like, it's as radical as you can
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get. And that's normal Christianity. Andyes, God raises up leaders, and God raises up pastors, and God raises up facilitators, but the leadership in the New Testament is to activate the new creation that's within
every believer. That's the message of thebook. You know, I started out with one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies hook with Robin Williams. And, and he doesn't know he's Peter Pan, because he's
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forgotten. And he's ruled more by fear andeconomics and all this sort of stuff than he then he is remembering the adventurous young person that he used to be the child that was within him. And he has forgotten that he's
forgotten the hero that he is, when his kidsare taken. Wendy, says, Peter, don't you know who you are, she's trying to get him to see that he's the only one that can save his kids. It's not going to be the police. It's
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like, like, the enemy that's involved, needsPeter Pan to fight that enemy. So she's trying to activate this reality of who He really is the hero that's within him. And she says, Peter, don't you know who you are.
And I feel like that's been a big part of mymessage for people. Don't you know who you are. And that's the point of the book, the point of the book is to say, there's not going to be a political party. I'm not
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against political parties necessarily. It'sjust, it's not going to be a political party or a certain politician or church program, it's going to be the people of God, being activated in the new creation that we are in
the spirit that's inside of them, livingheaven on earth, as a people, that's what's going to bring hope to the world that desperately needs it. And so I use the narrative of Lazarus, Jesus raising that
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Lazarus from the dead as a framework, toshow how Jesus was trying to be that model. This is how you live, as if heaven is real while you're on Earth. And so that's, that's the book in a nutshell.
Rodney Olsen (23:52):
I guess these days were told who we are. Coming back to that phrase of Don't you know who you are, we're told often who we are by society, and even by the church, we were told sometimes that we are
cultural warriors that we need to go out andfight for everything to be Christianized, so to speak, that we should be legislating faith. And yet here we have this very different look of saying, Don't you know who
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you are, you are a son or a daughter of theliving God, and you're here to bring light to this place. Tell me a bit about the difference between what the world what the church is telling us and that person that we
truly are.
Britt Mooney (24:32):
You said it perfectly. When we realize we've been born from heaven. The Bible says we've been born again. And we've been born from heaven to live and declare that there's this other world that people
are longing for. There's this other worldthat we all long for. And so it's not that we shouldn't stand up against evil things that are happening in our society or fight for the good things we should do, though.
(25:00):
those things but the problem a lot of timeswith whether the world does or the church does it is, it's as if this is the means to an end. Well, if we get the right law, this will fix stuff. And I'm all for good laws,
like we should have good laws. I'm notsaying we shouldn't. But there's a deeper reality that actually transforms like laws. We know laws don't transform things, we have a whole Old Testament that shows us that law
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doesn't change people that at our core, ourhearts need to be changed. And people need to see a group of people living as ambassadors with a with a heart change. And when they do that, then it's bigger, even
under evil laws. Evil laws can't stop thepeople of God who are living as if him heaven is real. Again, this is in the in the New Testament, Old Testament. It's in all throughout history, if you read like, even
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under evil regimes, they can't stop thepeople of God because you're of another world, you're of another more powerful, transcendent reality, which is the kingdom of God and Heaven. When we understand this,
it's not as if these other things in theworld aren't important, but they're put in their proper place. And we are empowered just by God, that whoever we are, from the least to the greatest, we are all empowered
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by His Spirit. None of us are here by ourown abilities, or our own intelligence, or what have you. We are all empowered by God, by faith. And by the new creation. And by being born again. We are all empowered to be
a transformative agent in the lives of thepeople around us. And if we can activate that, I believe that's what the world needs, the world needs more people alive in the spirit more than they need better laws. And
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again, please don't hear me wrong. I don'twant bad laws. Jesus was incarnated, he came as a person to be with us, to love us to be with us. And that's the model of transformation. He wasn't a senator in Rome,
there was a reason why God chose to do this,because that's the best way is he? He was born to be among us, to live with us to be real, to have relationship to live as if heaven is real, right alongside us. And
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that's the model.
Rodney Olsen (27:27):
We live in an increasingly complex and complicated world where there are more and more people that seem to be antagonistic towards our faith. And yet, how much pressure Do you think it takes off when
we realize that all we've been called to dois live who we really are in Christ?
Britt Mooney (27:47):
It's almost a rhetorical question. That's so good. I so so appreciate that. It takes all the pressure off, there's a part of the book where I talk about the gift of living from identity, I think so
much of and I gotta be careful, because Iknow, I know, a lot of pastors, I know a lot of churches, I know, their their heart isn't necessarily for this. But you almost get this sense sometimes. Like, well, if you go
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in the right program, you'll kind of achievethe right thing. And you'll live, you know, all this sort of stuff. And yet, I think a lot of times we don't realize that the worship, the praise and worship we seek to
have, we don't have to work it up. The Biblesays that the spirit within me cries out opera father, I just have to rest and submit to that spirit to have to worship and praise Him. Jesus is already in my heart, telling
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the Father, He loves him. And I just have toenter into that. And the Bible talks about being in Christ, more than it talks about anything. Its uses the term in Christ, I don't know 100 times the New Testament, but
in Christ in Christ, what does that mean isthat I just got to be in him. And so then when he moves, and I move, I don't have to put this pressure on myself of how people react. You know, even Jesus did it. Like
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that's his model for those who have ears tohear, let him hear. Even he didn't try to control how people responded to him. He did what he saw his father do. And he said, what he heard his father say, and that was his
success. And and I believe that that's agift to us, because there's rest and there's peace in that. That doesn't mean we'll have a perfect life. Because Jesus encountered resistance. And he told us, He promised us
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that we would do and yet he says, but don'tbe afraid. I have overcome the world. This is this is the victory. This is the victory. And it's that simple, relational. I'm walking with the Father, and I'm walking
from my identity. I'm walking from victoryI'm giving from the resources of heaven. I already have all things in Christ. I don't need to achieve anything. I just need to walk with Him and walk in that reality. In
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that identity, and I totally agree with you,it takes all that pressure off of did a million people responded, did people get saved like I don't, I don't have to think of the results. He's in charge of that. I'm
already a winner, just walking with him andsubmitting my life to Him.
Rodney Olsen (30:16):
But I'm sure that many people would want to be in touch with some of your work, either the podcast kingdom over coffee, or any of your books, including the new one, we were really born for this, I
think that's a great title. We were rebornfor this. If people are wanting to find you, where's the easiest place for them to look
Britt Mooney (30:35):
at my Facebook page for kingdom over coffee is a main thing. I've got a lot of followers on there. But you can find kingdom over coffee pretty much anywhere that the podcast services are,
whether it's apple, or Google or Spotify, orwhatever, Amazon kingdom over coffee is on there. And I usually have great guests. I've got some great guests coming out. So be sure to check that out for my books you can get
(31:00):
we were reborn for this on Amazon. Prettysoon that's going to be up on Barnes and Noble and stuff like that. But right now it's on Amazon, you can get it at least the ebook all over the world. And those are
probably the two two biggest ways you cansort of get in touch with me.
Rodney Olsen (31:16):
I will put links in the show notes at bleeding daylight dotnet so that people can find that easily. But Brett, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for spending time
with us today.
Britt Mooney (31:28):
Thank you Rodney. This has been amazing and God bless you and everyone listening. I hope they feel empowered and encouraged.
Emily Olsen (31:37):
Thank you for listening to bleeding daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. For further details and more episodes, please visit leading daylight
dotnet
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Welcome. Please consider sharing this and other episodes through your social media accounts, or through word of mouth with friends so that more people can kick against the darkness. You will find our
social media links at bleeding daylight.netToday I'm talking to a storyteller who believes we should all get better at telling life's essential stories.
(00:53):
Today's guest has been a teacher, he'sworked alongside his wife in Korea as a missionary. He's an author and a church planter. Britt Mooney is also the host of the Kingdom Over Coffee podcast. Even though
many people of faith are left shaking theirheads at the state of the world today. Britt believes that in the face of the tragedy and hate all over this globe, Christians do have the answer. He's recently released the book
(01:19):
we were reborn for this the Jesus model forliving heaven on earth. I'm so pleased to have him join us on Bleeding daylight today. Britt, thank you so much for your time.
Britt Mooney (01:29):
Hey, man, it is great to be here. And as someone who has lived over on that side of the world, or you are, I'm happy to be on a podcast in a different timezone. It makes me happy. I feel like I'm
half at home again.
Rodney Olsen (01:45):
Good, good. I am very keen to jump into some of your experiences, and especially finding out more about your new book. But firstly, let's head back in time. Tell me a bit about your background where
was home for you growing up.
Britt Mooney (01:58):
I was born in the United States in the state of West Virginia. And then we moved to Alabama and I lived there for a bit. But really, I kind of grew up through my teens in the Atlanta, Georgia
area and the United States. And I grew up inchurch. I grew up in a fairly conservative, evangelical background in church. There's always pros and cons to things when you're growing up and part of maturity is realizing
(02:25):
you know what, it wasn't all bad. It wasn'tall good, and just kind of delineating some of that. But part of what was a blessing about where I grew up. And how I grew up even as conservative as a church was we were
taught to really dig down into what theBible actually said, we weren't just given pat answers to things. I wasn't just given pat answers to things, I was really encouraged to seek out the Scripture, what
(02:51):
does it really say, and have thoseconversations with men and women in the church. And it was a small enough church that I had, I had relationships with a lot of people who are adults, and pretty much
older than me, that really mentored me andlooked past my long hair. I was a heavy metal guy, I played the guitar and the bass and wrote really loud songs. I was doing it all for Jesus, but they look past a lot of
(03:17):
that and just really tried to see my heart,I was really blessed that I had a very positive experience of people who are really willing to have conversations and allow me to ask interesting questions that maybe a
lot of teenagers, if you know, I was thatkind of kid, I was that kid that would ask the question that, you know, a lot of kids probably wouldn't ask, you know, why is it that way? Why do I have to do that? You
(03:42):
know, and I would question a lot of things.And God was very kind to me to put me in a situation where I had adults around me that would have those conversations with me and seek out those sorts of answers with me. So
that's kind of where I'm at where and how Igrew up.
Rodney Olsen (03:56):
It's interesting that you using terms there like conservative and evangelical because perhaps some years ago, that meant that it was a group of people who wanted to share Jesus who were very certain
that they wanted to believe the right thingsin Scripture, and yet, so many terms like those, they become loaded terms, haven't they?
Britt Mooney (04:17):
Oh, absolutely. There's sort of this fine line that that people try to draw between what we we kind of call fundamentalism and I had those experiences with churches like that, when I was when I
was younger, and Christians like that, whosaw my long hair and the style of music that I would play even though I was seen by Jesus. There were some Christians who didn't believe you could be a Christian and play
(04:46):
the styles of music and it seems kind ofsilly now. But you're right is kind of taken on some other meanings. And yet, I think for some of us who grew up in it, especially the healthy parts of it, I think we realized is
what a gift it was to have a clearfoundation. I mean, we use the terms may be conservative, but there was a real firm idea that there was that there were foundational truths. And I think that for me, at least, I
(05:13):
think for a lot of us who grew up in thatthere's a certain amount of security and a good foundation there as we, as we tried to navigate what the culture was doing, and all the all of these things, but you're right.
And nowadays, it's almost become like a cussword to call people a conservative Christian, you know, that's bad as you're evil and oppressive, and I didn't have that experience at all in my particular context.
(05:39):
So yeah, you're right, we've kind of changedthe meaning to some of those things.
Rodney Olsen (05:43):
And I guess digging into those foundations means that you're continuing to dig, you're continuing to find what does this 2000 year old book still have to say to me today? What is the truth that I need to
draw out that is just as applicable fortoday? Is that part of what set you on this trip to do things like head to Korea to be a missionary and to enter plant churches?
Britt Mooney (06:07):
The short answer is, it wasn't really my dream to move to Korea or to plant churches. My experience with God is that I have my own ideas. And then God leads me on his path for me. The Bible says that we make
our plans, man makes his plans, people maketheir plans, but their steps are ordered by the Lord. And oftentimes, we think we know what we want. But God actually knows what we want and need. And we're not self aware
(06:36):
enough sometimes to know what we want orneed. And so God directs us into pathways that really will satisfy us that really will bring us joy. I was taught to hear the voice of God and to follow what he's telling me to
do. Oftentimes, that was different than thenmy idea of what I thought my future was going to be, I thought I was going to be a rock star. When I was in my teens and early 20s, I thought I was going to be a rock star
(07:05):
for Jesus. And I had a pastor, look at meone time, he goes, No, you're you're a pastor, that's who you are. And I thought, no, that's not who I am. And I'm what I'm going to do. But and then that's where God
leads me as a church planter, and as aleader, and not kicking and screaming. But God's kind of had to lead me along these ways. And revealed to me that this is actually where you're going to find a lot of
(07:29):
the satisfaction that you're searching for,in the same way moving to Korea, my wife and I were teachers here in America, and my wife is fluent in German. And so our assumption was, we wanted to move overseas. But our
assumption was, we were going to go toGermany, or we're going to go to Europe somewhere, live cool and live European. And, of course, God had another plan. And God called us to a place where I'm way too tall.
(07:56):
I'm six foot four. So I'm far too tall. Ididn't like the food I was going to stick out. But he brought me there because he had a plan. And he wanted to teach me things there about how to be an alien and a
stranger in this world, and how to live asif this world is not my home. And the kingdom really is and that heaven is really my home. And so he had things that he wanted to teach me that he knew were going to
(08:20):
actually satisfy my soul. Yes, thefoundation was there, the foundation was all of those foundational things about the gospel and the doctrine of scripture. But essentially, the foundation for me was, he's
the Lord of my life, and he gets to tell mewhat to do. Because I've given my life to him, I have surrendered my life to Him and repentance and faith. And so he leads me and he he's such a good father, that he leaves
(08:46):
me in places that I may not have chosen onmy own. In the end, he knows what's good. He knows the end, he knows what's going to satisfy me. He knows what's going to bring me joy, and give me good things.
Rodney Olsen (09:00):
I know that you're someone who is very keen on storytelling, and you believe that there's a lot of storytelling throughout Scripture. And maybe we should lean more towards storytelling rather than
just telling people what to do.
Britt Mooney (09:15):
Amen. This is something that's been huge for me as a writer, before I was a church planter. Before I was a lot of these things. I was a writer and I still am I write fictional stories. I write things
similar to Lord of the Rings and fantasy andscience fiction. I've done a lot of study about story. While you do that, and you read the Bible a lot like I do, you start to realize that there's all this sort of stuff
(09:41):
in the Scripture, too. And it says inMatthew 13, that Jesus spoke these parables. There's a number of parables there in Matthew 13. And in the middle of around verse 3435. I think Matthew says, Jesus
taught these things with parables, which arestories that he made up and And then he says, he never taught without a parable. Now, that doesn't mean he only taught in stories. But Matthew says, and it's repeated
(10:09):
in Mark, that he always taught with a storyline. In other words, every time he taught, he would tell a story somewhere in there. And then in Matthew, He explains that this is a fulfillment of the Old Testament
prophet, which is actually David, from oneof the Psalms, it says, that I will open my mouth and speak in parables and reveal the secrets that were hidden from the days of old or whatever Jesus was explaining things
(10:36):
was stories. And he was revealing eternalrealities, and very common stories, that's part of our call as human beings is to live a story, live in such a way that heaven is real. And heaven is made evident in our life
by what we choose, and the way we act andhow we are generous. And that's even how we're supposed to pray, right? You know, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, your kingdom come your will be done on
(11:04):
earth as it is in heaven. Like we're, we'reliving as if heaven is real, because it is, we're living that sort of story. And then we're also supposed to tell the sort of stories. And for the Bible, there's three
types of stories that they would tell. Andthe one would be actual narratives, right? So Jesus, or Paul, or somebody would tell stories about something that happened in the Old Testament, and then they would bring out
(11:28):
an eternal reality. And principle from thosestories that really happened in history, they would also tell stories about themselves, we get some of the gospel stories from Jesus actually explaining what
happened to him. I don't know that thewriters of the Gospels would have known some of those stories without Jesus or Mary or someone else, telling them the stories like Luke would not have known any of that,
(11:52):
because he didn't know Jesus personally. Sothey would tell stories about what happened to Jesus. And Paul would tell the story about his own life. His own conversion was a central part of his preaching, I used to
kill Christians. And then Jesus knocked meoff my horse. And now I'm preaching the gospel, like this is a very radical story that has a lot of power. And then also, there's stories, like the parables and other
(12:17):
things that are made up, but reveal sort ofa deeper truth than the common elements that are part of them, like a woman loses a coin, she finds it and she celebrates and invites her friends, you know, like, but Jesus is
explaining that this is how the Kingdom isthat there's an eternal reality in this. Beyond the common that we see. I think that for us, as Christians, we have to see these things and realize that the Bible is full of
(12:44):
narrative, and it's full of stories. Itstarts out within the beginning and telling us this grand epic story. And so often, we're more interested in the apologetics and arguments create enemies, but stories make
friends. And so when we tell stories, we'rebeing relational with people, we're bringing people into a conversation, we're revealing some deeper truths to them with a story that we really can't do with decorative
(13:14):
statements. Like I can say, God is love. Andthat is true. But those three words God is Love does not, cannot, because it's human limited language, it cannot fully express the reality that God is love. We tell a
story that God sent His Son to die for us tobe with us to be a manual. And we tell the story of this gospel that reveals the depth of his love for God so loved the world, that He gave His Son to die for us so that we
(13:47):
wouldn't perish. And then he rose from thedead. Like, there's a very radical story here. And that's the gospel. And that shows us his love, on a depth that just the mere statement that God is Love can't really do
fully. Yes, I absolutely believe that weshould be better at telling our own stories, we should be better about telling the stories of Jesus. I think it encourages people, it gives people hope. It reveals the
(14:14):
miraculous, you know, when somebody hears astory about somebody raising from the dead, it seems unbelievable. But it opens up their mind to all these different possibilities besides the life that they feel stuck in,
and it gives people hope, reveals eternalthings. I absolutely believe that storytelling is a huge part of what we should be teaching each other to do and encouraging each other to do not that the
(14:40):
doctrine or theology is pushed to the side,but that they can be meshed together that we can express doctrine and theology like Jesus did, with very simple stories, some of those stories that Jesus told her like a sentence
long, they weren't very long. And yet therewas very deep meaning within them, I think we would make a lot more friends. And we would bring a lot more people into eternal discussions. If we just told more stories
Rodney Olsen (15:09):
I'm interested in just a quick look at some of the the parables, as you mentioned, is some of the storytelling that we do see in the Scripture. And it's interesting that when we're telling a
parable these days, we say, here's theparable. And here's what it means. And yet, in Scripture, Jesus doesn't always explain what it means. And sometimes he only explains it to the disciples afterwards,
(15:30):
when they say, Hey, look at that story youtold us like what you didn't get it? Okay, I'll tell you. What places there for leaving things open ended in a story. And again, the story that you were just telling the parable
of the woman who loses the coin, and sayingthe kingdom is like so much throughout Scripture, people are trying to get a grasp on this idea of Kingdom. And all Jesus says, well, it's like this. And let me tell you
(15:55):
another story. never seems to come down tothis is the definition of the kingdom. But it's like this.
Britt Mooney (16:04):
That is so good. Rodney, I think that is so insightful, because you're right, neither Jesus nor Paul, the two people who talked about the Kingdom of God the most. And Paul was an academic, he was
trained in philosophy, you see that in hiswriting, he's able to engage the Epicurean isms, in the, in the Stoics, and Athens. But neither Jesus nor Paul, give a definition of the kingdom, the kingdom of God is this. And
(16:32):
that's because it's such a differentreality, no definition of the kingdom would ever do it justice. But what they did was they told stories, they talked about it. One of the things we love as humans, well, we
love it, and we don't love it. We want todiscover things for ourselves. As a teacher, I'm not in school teaching. Now, I'm not a teacher in a school today. But I have a background in teaching my wife, still a
(16:59):
teacher in public school, people own whatthey learn when they learn it for themselves. They own it, they remember it. And a good teacher doesn't just simply tell you something and get you to regurgitate it
back to you, a good teacher will give youenough to send you on a search for yourself. And then when you find the answer for yourself, you own it. It's now yours. And this is what Jesus was doing with the
(17:31):
parables the disciples actually begged him,the disciples actually begged Jesus, will you please stop telling stories? Just tell us what you mean? And he said, No, I'm telling this in stories, because I'm hiding
it on purpose. I want people to dig, I wantpeople to search, I'm leaving the mystery open ended, so that those who truly want to know, we'll ask, we'll dig a little further, we'll show some effort. Some of those people
(18:03):
who actually did that, were those disciplesthe, the 12, closest to him would ask him later, what did What are you talking about? We didn't understand that. And sometimes Jesus would say, do you understand this, and
he would let those parables kick off andactivate some some deeper conversations. When I say we don't like it. Our brains are lazy. And we're lazy enough. That part of us is like, just tell us what you want us to
(18:27):
know. And we'll repeat it back to you. Okay,now I've checked it off, I've passed the quiz. That's not what God wants, because we don't own it, then we don't own that information. We don't own our faith. In
those moments. We own our faith when Godgives us enough, but he doesn't really give us the whole picture yet. And he's wanting to see if we're going to dig you know, the mystery genre in writing is like the second
(18:54):
moneymaker only under romance, right? Wewant to be involved in stories that have some mystery, and, and don't give us all the answers right away. We want to kind of dig and figure it out for ourselves, because
then we own it. And God wants us to own ourwalk of faith. The ownership is all in the Scripture. He gives the talents to the servants. And so it's a gift. They didn't earn this, he tells them now go work as if
(19:22):
it's yours and invest it. And then the twowho did that, they doubled their money that he gave them. And when they tried to give it back, he said no, this belongs to you. Now. In other words, this you own this, you
worked with it, you applied it now it's nowyou own it, and belongs to you, even though it was originally a gift and the one who buried it, who just was like I'll just regurgitate it back to you. He lost it all.
(19:50):
That's also the reason why a lot ofChristian entertainment falls flat is because I think we give people the answers too much. We don't tell the kind of stories that get people to Ask questions and have
conversations. We can point to the answer.But we don't let people kind of get people into this mode of, oh, there's a mystery in this, and what is it? What's going on what's behind this? Those are the stories that are
(20:15):
very powerful, that are saying somethingwithout openly saying it and allows us to kind of dig into it. The very insightful what you said that they never give a direct definition of the kingdom. But they told
stories, and got us to search and figure itout. I love it.
Rodney Olsen (20:33):
I want to dig into your book, we would reborn for this, the Jesus model for living heaven on earth, give us a bit of a thumbnail sketch. What will people find between the pages? Well, it's
Britt Mooney (20:45):
a lot of what I've already been talking about the motivation behind the book, it was, first of all, so message that God gave me, a big part of my focus of my ministry. And what God has given me to share
with people is that I don't think weunderstand what we have and who we are in Christ. And it's always bothered me, that there's this idea that if you really love Jesus, and if you really are interested in
(21:13):
the Bible, and you really have this radicalexperience with Jesus, then you should be a pastor, then you should be some sort of professional Christian. And I just don't see that in the scripture for the New Testament.
For every believer and every disciple, it'sa radical thing. It's a radical transformation. It's, it's darkness to light, it's death to life, it's bondage to freedom, like, it's as radical as you can
(21:43):
get. And that's normal Christianity. Andyes, God raises up leaders, and God raises up pastors, and God raises up facilitators, but the leadership in the New Testament is to activate the new creation that's within
every believer. That's the message of thebook. You know, I started out with one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies hook with Robin Williams. And, and he doesn't know he's Peter Pan, because he's
(22:10):
forgotten. And he's ruled more by fear andeconomics and all this sort of stuff than he then he is remembering the adventurous young person that he used to be the child that was within him. And he has forgotten that he's
forgotten the hero that he is, when his kidsare taken. Wendy, says, Peter, don't you know who you are, she's trying to get him to see that he's the only one that can save his kids. It's not going to be the police. It's
(22:40):
like, like, the enemy that's involved, needsPeter Pan to fight that enemy. So she's trying to activate this reality of who He really is the hero that's within him. And she says, Peter, don't you know who you are.
And I feel like that's been a big part of mymessage for people. Don't you know who you are. And that's the point of the book, the point of the book is to say, there's not going to be a political party. I'm not
(23:08):
against political parties necessarily. It'sjust, it's not going to be a political party or a certain politician or church program, it's going to be the people of God, being activated in the new creation that we are in
the spirit that's inside of them, livingheaven on earth, as a people, that's what's going to bring hope to the world that desperately needs it. And so I use the narrative of Lazarus, Jesus raising that
(23:38):
Lazarus from the dead as a framework, toshow how Jesus was trying to be that model. This is how you live, as if heaven is real while you're on Earth. And so that's, that's the book in a nutshell.
Rodney Olsen (23:52):
I guess these days were told who we are. Coming back to that phrase of Don't you know who you are, we're told often who we are by society, and even by the church, we were told sometimes that we are
cultural warriors that we need to go out andfight for everything to be Christianized, so to speak, that we should be legislating faith. And yet here we have this very different look of saying, Don't you know who
(24:18):
you are, you are a son or a daughter of theliving God, and you're here to bring light to this place. Tell me a bit about the difference between what the world what the church is telling us and that person that we
truly are.
Britt Mooney (24:32):
You said it perfectly. When we realize we've been born from heaven. The Bible says we've been born again. And we've been born from heaven to live and declare that there's this other world that people
are longing for. There's this other worldthat we all long for. And so it's not that we shouldn't stand up against evil things that are happening in our society or fight for the good things we should do, though.
(25:00):
those things but the problem a lot of timeswith whether the world does or the church does it is, it's as if this is the means to an end. Well, if we get the right law, this will fix stuff. And I'm all for good laws,
like we should have good laws. I'm notsaying we shouldn't. But there's a deeper reality that actually transforms like laws. We know laws don't transform things, we have a whole Old Testament that shows us that law
(25:26):
doesn't change people that at our core, ourhearts need to be changed. And people need to see a group of people living as ambassadors with a with a heart change. And when they do that, then it's bigger, even
under evil laws. Evil laws can't stop thepeople of God who are living as if him heaven is real. Again, this is in the in the New Testament, Old Testament. It's in all throughout history, if you read like, even
(25:56):
under evil regimes, they can't stop thepeople of God because you're of another world, you're of another more powerful, transcendent reality, which is the kingdom of God and Heaven. When we understand this,
it's not as if these other things in theworld aren't important, but they're put in their proper place. And we are empowered just by God, that whoever we are, from the least to the greatest, we are all empowered
(26:24):
by His Spirit. None of us are here by ourown abilities, or our own intelligence, or what have you. We are all empowered by God, by faith. And by the new creation. And by being born again. We are all empowered to be
a transformative agent in the lives of thepeople around us. And if we can activate that, I believe that's what the world needs, the world needs more people alive in the spirit more than they need better laws. And
(26:53):
again, please don't hear me wrong. I don'twant bad laws. Jesus was incarnated, he came as a person to be with us, to love us to be with us. And that's the model of transformation. He wasn't a senator in Rome,
there was a reason why God chose to do this,because that's the best way is he? He was born to be among us, to live with us to be real, to have relationship to live as if heaven is real, right alongside us. And
(27:26):
that's the model.
Rodney Olsen (27:27):
We live in an increasingly complex and complicated world where there are more and more people that seem to be antagonistic towards our faith. And yet, how much pressure Do you think it takes off when
we realize that all we've been called to dois live who we really are in Christ?
Britt Mooney (27:47):
It's almost a rhetorical question. That's so good. I so so appreciate that. It takes all the pressure off, there's a part of the book where I talk about the gift of living from identity, I think so
much of and I gotta be careful, because Iknow, I know, a lot of pastors, I know a lot of churches, I know, their their heart isn't necessarily for this. But you almost get this sense sometimes. Like, well, if you go
(28:13):
in the right program, you'll kind of achievethe right thing. And you'll live, you know, all this sort of stuff. And yet, I think a lot of times we don't realize that the worship, the praise and worship we seek to
have, we don't have to work it up. The Biblesays that the spirit within me cries out opera father, I just have to rest and submit to that spirit to have to worship and praise Him. Jesus is already in my heart, telling
(28:40):
the Father, He loves him. And I just have toenter into that. And the Bible talks about being in Christ, more than it talks about anything. Its uses the term in Christ, I don't know 100 times the New Testament, but
in Christ in Christ, what does that mean isthat I just got to be in him. And so then when he moves, and I move, I don't have to put this pressure on myself of how people react. You know, even Jesus did it. Like
(29:08):
that's his model for those who have ears tohear, let him hear. Even he didn't try to control how people responded to him. He did what he saw his father do. And he said, what he heard his father say, and that was his
success. And and I believe that that's agift to us, because there's rest and there's peace in that. That doesn't mean we'll have a perfect life. Because Jesus encountered resistance. And he told us, He promised us
(29:32):
that we would do and yet he says, but don'tbe afraid. I have overcome the world. This is this is the victory. This is the victory. And it's that simple, relational. I'm walking with the Father, and I'm walking
from my identity. I'm walking from victoryI'm giving from the resources of heaven. I already have all things in Christ. I don't need to achieve anything. I just need to walk with Him and walk in that reality. In
(30:00):
that identity, and I totally agree with you,it takes all that pressure off of did a million people responded, did people get saved like I don't, I don't have to think of the results. He's in charge of that. I'm
already a winner, just walking with him andsubmitting my life to Him.
Rodney Olsen (30:16):
But I'm sure that many people would want to be in touch with some of your work, either the podcast kingdom over coffee, or any of your books, including the new one, we were really born for this, I
think that's a great title. We were rebornfor this. If people are wanting to find you, where's the easiest place for them to look
Britt Mooney (30:35):
at my Facebook page for kingdom over coffee is a main thing. I've got a lot of followers on there. But you can find kingdom over coffee pretty much anywhere that the podcast services are,
whether it's apple, or Google or Spotify, orwhatever, Amazon kingdom over coffee is on there. And I usually have great guests. I've got some great guests coming out. So be sure to check that out for my books you can get
(31:00):
we were reborn for this on Amazon. Prettysoon that's going to be up on Barnes and Noble and stuff like that. But right now it's on Amazon, you can get it at least the ebook all over the world. And those are
probably the two two biggest ways you cansort of get in touch with me.
Rodney Olsen (31:16):
I will put links in the show notes at bleeding daylight dotnet so that people can find that easily. But Brett, it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for spending time
with us today.
Britt Mooney (31:28):
Thank you Rodney. This has been amazing and God bless you and everyone listening. I hope they feel empowered and encouraged.
Emily Olsen (31:37):
Thank you for listening to bleeding daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. For further details and more episodes, please visit leading daylight
dotnet
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