December 3, 2023 • 28 mins
Cory Rosenke is an author, pastor, presenter, and pursuer of truth. His latest book is The Magnetic Heart of God: Understanding the Five Cravings of Your Soul. It helps us understand why we do what we do, desire the things we desire, say what we say, and behave the way we behave.
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Emily Olsen (00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight
with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Thanks for joining me. As you enjoy this episode of Bleeding Daylight. Please remember that there are many more episodes at
bleedingdaylight.net. Please connectwith Bleeding Daylight on social media. We've heard that humans are mind body and soul, but how do we
define the soul, and why is it sooften that neglected? Today's guest will take us closer to understanding the answer to those questions.
(00:53):
Today's guest is an author, pastorpresenter, and pursuer of truth. Corey Rosenke's latest book is The magnetic heart of God, understanding
the five cravings of your soul. Ithelps us understand why we do what we do desire the things we desire, say what we say and behave the way
we behave. It's my honor to haveCorey, join us today. Thank you so much for your time.
Corey Rosenke (01:19):
Rodney, thank you for having me. I very much appreciate it.
Rodney Olsen (01:21):
You did have a very interesting upbringing, some would consider it to be absolutely ideal or exciting. And yet, it had its own
issues, didn't it? Tell me a bitabout that upbringing.
Corey Rosenke (01:33):
I grew up for a lot of people as if it were the 1800s. I grew up poor. For a while our family was homeless. I know what it's like
to pick berries for something toeat. That was my early life wandering the mountain side with my dog. And just exploring life and
looking at the sky and asking whyfrom a very young age, I wanted to understand why people did what they did, why I did what I did. I think
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to a certain degree, I was blessedin that my life of poverty didn't give me the opportunity to pursue other things. So that's what I
pursued. It's brought me to where Iam today.
Rodney Olsen (02:07):
It's interesting that as we talk about poverty, we find ourselves thinking of that always being a disadvantage. And yet, I'm
sure that for someone like you asyou start to explore that you say, Well, look, there can be disadvantage in that. But there can
be a lot of disadvantage in wealthas well. Have you ever sort of considered the balance between those and as you say, You didn't go down
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pathways that others might? And thatthat might have been the thing that almost saved you?
Corey Rosenke (02:38):
Absolutely. I come from a family that I would say, as a genetic disposition to different forms of addiction. I think that to
a certain degree, poverty, protectedme to a certain degree from those things. But yeah, definitely in my life, I would definitely seek the
balance, poverty is not something Irecommend. But at the same time, I can see there's all sorts of things that shape and mold us. For me, I
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mean, I could have just as easilygone the other way I could have just as easily spiraled into, into crime or despair or some such thing. I'm
fortunate in that that's not theroute that I took. And I don't think that I can take credit for that. I can just say that I'm thankful that
it didn't go that direction for me.
Rodney Olsen (03:17):
I've been to a number of countries where people are living in poverty, and yet their surroundings seem almost idyllic.
They're in beautiful countryside,and this was the same for you. You were in poverty, but you have this beauty of nature, all around you.
Describe that balance for me.
Corey Rosenke (03:35):
Well, and I think that definitely factors into it in so in the midst of what we might call fiscal or economic poverty, I
was surrounded by majesty and beautythat couldn't help but lift to the heart, and make the mind wonder about the awesomeness of the world
and creation. And that was my life,I would take my dog and we would just wander the mountain sides looking at the beauty. In my case, I
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was a reader. So I always had a bookwith me. And we'd disappear for the day, sometimes for days, and just wander that beauty. That's something
for me that is still at heart. I'llalways be a mountain boy, even though I now live in Silicon Valley, California, what they call mountains
here, I don't call the mountains.Because where I come from, they're truly majestic and snow capped and beautiful. And that that'll always
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be in my heart and part of me
Rodney Olsen (04:26):
And that part of the world, the beautiful mountains of Canada. It does seem idyllic. And yet when we come back to that idea
of poverty, we know that Povertyisn't just a lack of stuff that poverty actually speaks to you about who you are, and it says you're not
worth anything because you don'thave anything. How did you escape that voice of poverty, trying to tell you your worth?
Corey Rosenke (04:51):
To start with. I delved into philosophy. I would say that was kind of my escape at the time. I was a reader, even as a very
young boy, I was As I was intoAristotle and Plato and Confucius, I didn't find what I was looking for there. But it definitely lifted my
my mind from where I was. I oftensay, philosophy led me to psychology to study of the human mind. I remember for years, I was really
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into Freud. And his whole idea aboutthe development of personality and how our childhoods affect us and the ID and the ego and the super ego and
his theories, all revolving aroundthat, again, that didn't answer my questions, but it did lift my eyes from where I was. And then of
course, there's neuroscience. Youknow, for a while I was into that, to be honest, I'm still into that, I still find it to be a fascinating
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thing, the whole idea of theneuroplasticity of the brain and how through, through either trauma or self discipline, the brain can
actually change shape, and releasedifferent chemicals. It's a fascinating study, ultimately, I ended up in faith. And that is where
I believe I found the answers I waslooking for, and the piece I was looking for. And so that's a bit of the journey that I had, from that
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point of really, you know, it couldhave spiraled down into despair in that place. But that was the progression that finally led me out
of the dark, I would say and intothe light and, and gave me a hope and a future.
Rodney Olsen (06:09):
As you're reading all these very heavy volumes. What was it that actually turned your mind to faith? I believe it was another
heavy volume of a very differentkind.
Corey Rosenke (06:21):
Yeah, for me, it was, I'd say a large part of that was CS Lewis, specifically, Mere Christianity. I remember our family
were church goers, and going tochurch one day and some of the church finding out that I was a reader and that I love reading heavy
books. He said, You should read CSLewis. And he looking back, I think he probably meant the Chronicles of Narnia, because I was pretty, pretty
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young at the time when I was firstintroduced to this. But for me, it was Mere Christianity book by CS Lewis that really kind of for me
bridge that gap between thinking andfaith from looking at the world philosophically and even psychologically, and bridging that
gap and saying, Hey, faith andpsychology or Faith and Philosophy are not two separate roads, they are in fact, parallel paths, oftentimes.
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And so he kind of is the one thatbridged that gap for me, CS Lewis, and AW Tozer I would say, specifically, were people that
bridge that gap for me.
Rodney Olsen (07:13):
Many people try and say that science or understanding must be very separate from religion, that religion is this blind faith
kind of thing, then there's the realstudy, and yet, you're saying there's a bridge between this and understanding between that they can
go hand in hand helped me understandthat a little bit better.
Corey Rosenke (07:35):
And I would say that they've they've always gone hand in hand. Well, I think it would come back to confirmation bias to a
certain degree, the people inhistory who have somehow touted the science as to being you know, the opposite, or the an anti faith an
antidote to faith, even our peoplewho entered it with their own agenda, there are plenty of scientists, great thinkers
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throughout history, who kept theirfaith and can see how science completely aligns with In fact, I would go further than I would say,
the science, by definition is theobservance in the documentation of life and existence. And so it is limited to what can be observed and
documented. And anything beyondthat, is theory. Of course, we live in a world that strangely and often goes beyond the ability to observe
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which goes beyond the scope ofscience. And yet, sometimes we're still told that it's science, when truly it isn't, its theory at that
point. Not only what I'd say is, isfaith and science compatible, but I would say that faith is actually the foundation of good science.
Rodney Olsen (08:37):
And as we look at the volumes that you had been reading to that point, of course, coming to faith would have shined a very
different light on that, as you say,not completely discounting some of those earlier books that you read, but letting you see them through a
very different lens.
Corey Rosenke (08:55):
Well, I specifically remember for me a moment I was reading the Iliad by Homer, for what must have been the fourth or fifth
time, for whatever reason that thatBooker had really connected with me as an especially young age. In that book, it has Achilles and Hector and
the Greeks and the Trojans, inbattle, the battle of Troy, the Greek gods have kind of split forces. And the chaos amongst the
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quote unquote gods is just as realas it is among the people. There's adultery, there's backstabbing, there's betrayal. And I remember
specifically having a moment where Isat up, and I thought, God isn't like this. And then it made me ask the question, well, who is he then?
And that really drove me into intostudying it. It changed my life actually, that moment, that evening, sitting in my little study, reading
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the Iliad is kind of what reallysparked it. For me what really solidified hey, if there's a God out there, I need to know who he is.
Rodney Olsen (09:53):
And where do you see the line between understanding faith understanding Christianity and actually feeling that coal that tug
on the heart that comes through theSpirit?
Corey Rosenke (10:04):
Well, I would say it's one of those cliche terms, head knowledge versus heart knowledge, they say that knowledge is new
awareness. So essentially, knowledgeis awareness, if I get a new knowledge, it means I've gained a new awareness about something.
Whereas wisdom is then the correctapplication of that new awareness, or that new knowledge. And I think for many people, we can have the
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awakening of an awareness, yet we donot respond to that awareness. And so for me, I think that is that difference, it is the there is an
intellectual awareness, you know,versus putting it into practice for as an example, I can have a knowledge of something I can say I
have a knowledge, you know, ofweather patterns. And I can look at the sky or the the forecast and, and since that tomorrow is going to be a
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windy, rainy day. And that'sknowledge. But wisdom is going to add to that wisdom is going to say, Okay, it's going to be a windy day,
tomorrow, rainy day. So now I needto bring in the lawn furniture, right, I need to put a tarp over the motorbike, or whatever it is, wisdom
actually does something about it.For some people, it's the process, you know, and so knowledge naturally comes before wisdom before the step
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of the action towards thatknowledge. And sometimes that takes time, the hopefully, for a lot of people, it's not very much. And for
other people, they get stuck in theknowledge aspect to the head knowledge. To be honest, that's one of the reasons I wrote my book was
to help people get out of that rutand actually say, hey, there's a design to all this. The sooner you move forward with this knowledge and
do something about it, the better.
Rodney Olsen (11:38):
And the book is very much about understanding the human condition, why we do the things that we do. What's it really all about?
And I suppose this is the pursuitthat you've been on for quite some time is that the pursuit that led you into becoming a pastor as well,
Corey Rosenke (11:55):
I was a pastor before that. What led me into this book, to be honest, was I was actually preaching the Easter series in 2018,
five week Easter series. Of course,on Easter Sunday, I often saints is the Super Bowl for Christians, right, everybody's there, the week
by week attenders, they're not goingto miss it. We have a lot of Christmas and Easter attenders people who don't attend church
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outside of Christmas and Easter, butthey always show up on those dates. And then of course, you always have the people who don't want to be
there at all. But they're visitingfamily. And so they're essentially forced to come to church. And so I was really wondering, how can I
preach a message that shows that thegospel is relevant to each one of them, regardless of where they're at. And that was really where I,
where I started this kind of, in myyears of pursuing the knowledge of, you know, philosophy and psychology and neurosis all came together,
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along with faith along with theScripture, this is where my book was really birthed from was trying to say, hey, regardless of where you're
at, on the faith spectrum, realclose are way far away. The awareness of God is irrelevant to you. And so that's really what it
is. And so I started off preachingit to a church, I've been quite amazed actually, at the response that I have, from people who aren't
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people of faith. I speak to a lot ofpsychologists and therapists and atheists and people of all different faith backgrounds, and there's just
a hunger out there for people tounderstand and hear about their soul. And ultimately, that that's what the book is about. It's a more
than a brain or body, you are asoul. And that God designed you this way for a purpose.
Rodney Olsen (13:27):
And it's interesting that all those years back, when you started to read about faith, it was that book by CS Lewis, who obviously
wrote for a wider audience than justthose who would fill the pews on a Sunday. And here you are, again, you're you're reaching out with this
book that is very Christian atheart, and yet, it goes to a readership that goes far further than just the four walls of a
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church, doesn't it?
Corey Rosenke (13:54):
It does. And that's something that has been a pleasant and exciting surprise. I live in Silicon Valley, which to use
Christian terms, I would say is oneof the most spiritually dark places on earth. There's not a whole lot of open heartedness to the gospel here.
And so because I minister in thisenvironment, I've learned to use language that is not in itself inflammatory, but to say, hey, let's
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let's meet at a common point hereand work forward from there. And so that, fortunately, bled into the book. And so a lot of people who
normally wouldn't read a book offaith, are comfortable reading this because it approaches it from a different standpoint.
Rodney Olsen (14:28):
The book's title is magnetic heart of God, understanding the five cravings of your soul. And I know that this has been a
lifetime's work for you of searchingout the soul and knowing what really makes us tick. When you came to put it down on paper, or as you say,
originally within that sermonseries, what were the things that started to open up to you what were the things that you found? Aha, this
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is something that really needs to bein that book.
Corey Rosenke (14:56):
It really was for me the response of the congregation Listen, I was amazed at how people would come up to me and say, Wow,
all this finally makes sense. It wasreally to be honest, their encouragement, they're like, Wow, you have to do more on this, you
have to talk more about this.There's something here that I've never heard before. And it just, it's opened my eyes and opened my
heart. And that's kind of whatreally compelled me into it. The book was a process of four years of writing and research and deleting it
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all because I thought it wasn't anygood. And starting again, and writing and research and, and finally, I got a copy about a year
and a half ago, where I kind ofthought I was at the point where it was done. And I shared it with some people. And all of them said, We
love the content, but it reads likea thesis. So I went back to rewrite it because I wanted it to be an easy read something that was accessible
for everybody rewrote it to try touse more plain language. It was definitely a long and arduous process. Looking back on it, I'm
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very thankful for all those earlymornings and late nights and weekends where I just spent huddled over my laptop typing and thinking
and just thankful that the Lord wasable to produce something like this, and very excited about the journey that I'm on right now.
Rodney Olsen (16:06):
It's interesting that you wrote it and rewrote it. Do you think that because your standard reading volume, or are these great
volumes from over centuries in thepast that you were trying to hold yourself to a very high standard, and you just wanted to make it that
good?
Corey Rosenke (16:24):
That's exactly what it was. It's very perceptive of you. For those who have never read CS Lewis, you know, if they pick up one
of Louis's books now, it's prettyhard to read for a while until your brain adapts to the lofty language and imagery that he uses. And, and
so it's funny so that, definitelythat classic literature that I had grown up in had kind of poured all over the pages of my book, making it
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just difficult to read for a lot ofpeople. That's where I had to go back and say, Okay, let me click, let me clean this up and make it
something that's more palatable.
Rodney Olsen (16:55):
Tell me about some of the lessons in there. What are some of the lessons that people have grasped hold of both those that were
in the congregation when you werepreaching through the message series, but also those who've now had the opportunity to read the
book? What is it that's reallypopping out to them that is grabbing them, that is making them say, Hey, I'd never understood things like
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this before.
Corey Rosenke (17:17):
The first would be the knowledge that our souls are the core of who we are. We live in a culture that is obsessed with the
cravings of the brain and the body.It's our cultural obsession. It's what every politician bases their promises on, it's what every
television commercial is, ispromoting the cravings of the brain and the body. Meanwhile, our souls are starving to death, our souls are
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the core of who we are. So I'd saythat that's the first thing that people have responded to is there like as soon as you say it, and as
soon as you begin to describe it, oroffer evidence to it, everyone immediately grabs on to say, I know this to be true. I am more than just
this biological shape, kind oflumbering through life and time, it's not just about nerve endings, and neurons firing in my brain,
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there's, there's something deeper towho I am. I often talk to people about this on this level, right? And just describing that, the fact that
we have souls is yes, a biblicalstatement. It is also a scientific statement and going through the evidences of that for people. So
that's first, I think, just this theawareness that people gain that they're not just a mind, they are not just a body, they are a soul.
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And truly their soul is the boss.And so that's the first awareness that people have been responding to. And the second awareness is that the
soul is not ambiguous. It's not somemute or passive part of our being that's tethered to our flesh and only becomes activated after we die.
It's the seat of our personhood now.And this is where the human behavior element really comes in your deepest desires, our deepest ambitions, our
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deepest decision making choices arenot rooted in neuroscience or psychology. They're rooted in the soul, they come from a deeper
source, I identify five cravings ofthe soul that I believe are the root of all human ambition. And you can understand your spouse you can
understand your neighbor, you canunderstand your favorite politician or your most reviled politician or understand yourself for that matter.
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By simply looking at it through thelens of these five cravings. It simplifies if I could use that term human understanding where I can
finally look at someone and say, Idon't pretend to know everything, but I know that this behavior or this reaction is rooted in one of
these five cravings, that allows meto love them that allows me to adapt that allows me to truly draw near to them and be a support to them in a
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way that is actually helpful.
Rodney Olsen (19:41):
I imagine that there's a great sense of relief for many people in that finally it clicks, what they've already known, more or
less internally that they don't haveto keep trying to satisfy the desires of the mind the desires of the body and ignore this thing
called Well, the soul. And theremust be a moment for many people when there's this. Ah, finally, I can start to be what I was created
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to be.
Corey Rosenke (20:10):
Yeah, we live in an age of unprecedented prosperity. And when I say unprecedented prosperity, I mean in the history of the world,
I mean, there's never been ageneration, like the generations alive today, who have had such unfettered access to, to freedom to
leisure to wealth, opportunities tocomfort, to entertainment to world travel. And yet virtually every study shows that mankind in general
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is more unhappy than ever. And Ithink a large part of the reason for this is because we have been searching for peace and happiness.
In the biological, we've beensearching for it, simply in these tangible things around us. And we weren't designed to find peace and
happiness in those places. That'swhy the book is called the magnetic heart of God, understanding the five cravings of your soul. I believe
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that God placed these cravingsinside of us for the purpose of ultimately drawing us back to himself. Because we can't find
satisfaction for them. In worldlythings, we can find satisfaction temporarily. And of course, we in the world can say we've we've gone
through seasons, at least hopefully,most people have experienced seasons of joy and happiness and peace. But there's always an agitation of some
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sort. It's never quite enough. Andso for people, what I think has been enlightening to them is to say, is this finally understand what they're
looking for? People are scouring theglobe, but they don't actually quite know what they're looking for. And so what the book does is it helps
identify this is what you're lookingfor. And now that you know what you're looking for, you have a chance of finding it.
Rodney Olsen (21:42):
And there would be many people who, as I say, would have that great sense of relief. It's like, I've known for so long
that there's something missing, andyou've put your finger on it. And this is starting to make sense. Does the book then tell you how to go
from that knowing of that, tounderstanding how do we fulfill the desires that are truly there in our heart, how we can be reconciled back
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to the magnetic heart of God?
Corey Rosenke (22:10):
Absolutely. The second chapter in the book revolves around understanding why it's called the deep why. And then one of the
latter chapters of the book iscalled the deep how, you know, so we spend a lot of time exploring why things are the way they are, why
people are reacting the way theyare. And then as we as the book comes through, draws to an end. Yeah, I felt it was very important,
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obviously, not just to leave peoplehanging, but then to introduce that Okay, now, how do we address this, I definitely want to move towards
resolution. What has been amazing tome is how people of all different backgrounds, actually, there's a missionary group right now who is
suggested they'd like to use thisfor missionary purposes, because they feel it really explains why people of faith believe the things
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that they believe. And again, thosethese are all things I did not expect when I was reading the book. The book is called The Magnetic
Heart of God. I said, understandingthe five cravings of your soul because I believe I said, God placed these cravings inside of us, they
give a homing device almost like amagnet, in order to draw us back to himself. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, these are cravings
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of the soul, which means they're nonbiological cravings, and non biological cravings cannot be satisfied and biological things.
Rodney Olsen (23:25):
How often do you think that we have faith those people of us who are part of a church have been duped into chasing after the
same things the world is chasingafter? Even though we know there's a soul even though we know that there is a God who seeks to draw close to
us? How often are we still dupedinto chasing after the things the world tells us we should chase?
Corey Rosenke (23:51):
I think it's constant. And I think it's perceptive of you to pick up on it is one of our primary hindrances in
the church and that forgive me forusing this language. But I think it's the most descriptive, I think, I think a lot of us have come to
view God as a sugar daddy, in thatwe've come to faith. And rather than realizing that our hope is in a completely different place than it
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used to be, what we've done is wecome to God and we say, now God, now that I quote, unquote, believe in you, I need you to help me satisfy
my biological cravings in the sameway that all the non believers are looking for it. So at the end of the day, the Christian is looking for
hope in a new house and a new careerand good health just like everybody else. And I believe when you actually read the scriptures, when
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you get right down into it, there'ssomething different that is promised to us in the scriptures. There is a joy that surpasses understanding.
There's a peace that surpassesunderstanding. We are meant to experience fulfillment in life, even in the absence of all the
opportunities and the blessings thatthe world is pursuing. it in. But oftentimes in the church, we're looking for it in the same places
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only now we're looking to God tohelp us gain it in the same fallible places. And it's resulted I honestly, in a lot of
disillusionment in the church. Infact, I would say, it's one of the biggest reasons why a lot of churches are shrinking, because
people came to faith, or they cameto the church, mostly with the idea that God was going to help them, you know, satisfy their personal
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biological dreams. And they haven'tbeen able to grasp that God is saying, Oh, no, I have so much more for you, I have something so much
better for you. But they came herelooking for satisfaction of biological things. And they didn't find it. Not that God doesn't
obviously that I believe that Godabsolutely does supply those needs out of his goodness for us, oftentimes, but his plan is so much
more. It's so much better. It's somuch bigger.
Rodney Olsen (25:47):
And a big part of it is that understanding that what God wants for us, is way more satisfying. And once we get hold of
that, I guess, we're more likely tostart to pursue it in the way that you're suggesting.
Corey Rosenke (26:00):
Yeah. Absolutely. That's, I think, why people have been connected with the book the way they have is because the book really
identifies what it is we're lookingfor. It names what has been left unnamed, for a long time, even the soul as a person of faith. As a
pastor and a lifelong, you knowattender of church, I can say that we talk about the soul all the time, we sing about the soul all the time.
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And yet it's really been left assomething that's ambiguous, to a certain degree, almost like Star Wars, where they talk about the
force, right? It's, we know there'ssomething about it, and we know that there's something powerful about it. But that said, it's left a mystery.
And I think that the book reallyunlocks the mystery and is able to bring definition to things, which again, allows us to comprehend them
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and pursue them with much moresuccess.
Rodney Olsen (26:49):
Corey, if people are wanting to get a hold of that book, magnetic heart of God, or if they're wanting to get in touch with you,
where's the easiest place for themto find you.
Corey Rosenke (26:58):
The easiest place to find me is coreyrosenke.com. My website which can direct people to the book, or allows people to
contact me directly or learn moreabout me. Or of course, for those who are interested in the book, if you just saved the magnetic card of
God, or understanding the fivecravings of your soul into whatever browser you use it, the book should pop up available in a bookstore near
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you.
Rodney Olsen (27:20):
And I will put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net. So if you missed those references, just head
to that website and you'll be ableto find all the details. Cory, thank you so much for writing the book and telling your story and thank you for
your time today on BleedingDaylight.
Corey Rosenke (27:37):
Thank you so much.
Emily Olsen (27:38):
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode
with others. For further details andmore episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight
with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Thanks for joining me. As you enjoy this episode of Bleeding Daylight. Please remember that there are many more episodes at
bleedingdaylight.net. Please connectwith Bleeding Daylight on social media. We've heard that humans are mind body and soul, but how do we
define the soul, and why is it sooften that neglected? Today's guest will take us closer to understanding the answer to those questions.
(00:53):
Today's guest is an author, pastorpresenter, and pursuer of truth. Corey Rosenke's latest book is The magnetic heart of God, understanding
the five cravings of your soul. Ithelps us understand why we do what we do desire the things we desire, say what we say and behave the way
we behave. It's my honor to haveCorey, join us today. Thank you so much for your time.
Corey Rosenke (01:19):
Rodney, thank you for having me. I very much appreciate it.
Rodney Olsen (01:21):
You did have a very interesting upbringing, some would consider it to be absolutely ideal or exciting. And yet, it had its own
issues, didn't it? Tell me a bitabout that upbringing.
Corey Rosenke (01:33):
I grew up for a lot of people as if it were the 1800s. I grew up poor. For a while our family was homeless. I know what it's like
to pick berries for something toeat. That was my early life wandering the mountain side with my dog. And just exploring life and
looking at the sky and asking whyfrom a very young age, I wanted to understand why people did what they did, why I did what I did. I think
(01:58):
to a certain degree, I was blessedin that my life of poverty didn't give me the opportunity to pursue other things. So that's what I
pursued. It's brought me to where Iam today.
Rodney Olsen (02:07):
It's interesting that as we talk about poverty, we find ourselves thinking of that always being a disadvantage. And yet, I'm
sure that for someone like you asyou start to explore that you say, Well, look, there can be disadvantage in that. But there can
be a lot of disadvantage in wealthas well. Have you ever sort of considered the balance between those and as you say, You didn't go down
(02:32):
pathways that others might? And thatthat might have been the thing that almost saved you?
Corey Rosenke (02:38):
Absolutely. I come from a family that I would say, as a genetic disposition to different forms of addiction. I think that to
a certain degree, poverty, protectedme to a certain degree from those things. But yeah, definitely in my life, I would definitely seek the
balance, poverty is not something Irecommend. But at the same time, I can see there's all sorts of things that shape and mold us. For me, I
(03:00):
mean, I could have just as easilygone the other way I could have just as easily spiraled into, into crime or despair or some such thing. I'm
fortunate in that that's not theroute that I took. And I don't think that I can take credit for that. I can just say that I'm thankful that
it didn't go that direction for me.
Rodney Olsen (03:17):
I've been to a number of countries where people are living in poverty, and yet their surroundings seem almost idyllic.
They're in beautiful countryside,and this was the same for you. You were in poverty, but you have this beauty of nature, all around you.
Describe that balance for me.
Corey Rosenke (03:35):
Well, and I think that definitely factors into it in so in the midst of what we might call fiscal or economic poverty, I
was surrounded by majesty and beautythat couldn't help but lift to the heart, and make the mind wonder about the awesomeness of the world
and creation. And that was my life,I would take my dog and we would just wander the mountain sides looking at the beauty. In my case, I
(03:59):
was a reader. So I always had a bookwith me. And we'd disappear for the day, sometimes for days, and just wander that beauty. That's something
for me that is still at heart. I'llalways be a mountain boy, even though I now live in Silicon Valley, California, what they call mountains
here, I don't call the mountains.Because where I come from, they're truly majestic and snow capped and beautiful. And that that'll always
(04:25):
be in my heart and part of me
Rodney Olsen (04:26):
And that part of the world, the beautiful mountains of Canada. It does seem idyllic. And yet when we come back to that idea
of poverty, we know that Povertyisn't just a lack of stuff that poverty actually speaks to you about who you are, and it says you're not
worth anything because you don'thave anything. How did you escape that voice of poverty, trying to tell you your worth?
Corey Rosenke (04:51):
To start with. I delved into philosophy. I would say that was kind of my escape at the time. I was a reader, even as a very
young boy, I was As I was intoAristotle and Plato and Confucius, I didn't find what I was looking for there. But it definitely lifted my
my mind from where I was. I oftensay, philosophy led me to psychology to study of the human mind. I remember for years, I was really
(05:15):
into Freud. And his whole idea aboutthe development of personality and how our childhoods affect us and the ID and the ego and the super ego and
his theories, all revolving aroundthat, again, that didn't answer my questions, but it did lift my eyes from where I was. And then of
course, there's neuroscience. Youknow, for a while I was into that, to be honest, I'm still into that, I still find it to be a fascinating
(05:37):
thing, the whole idea of theneuroplasticity of the brain and how through, through either trauma or self discipline, the brain can
actually change shape, and releasedifferent chemicals. It's a fascinating study, ultimately, I ended up in faith. And that is where
I believe I found the answers I waslooking for, and the piece I was looking for. And so that's a bit of the journey that I had, from that
(05:59):
point of really, you know, it couldhave spiraled down into despair in that place. But that was the progression that finally led me out
of the dark, I would say and intothe light and, and gave me a hope and a future.
Rodney Olsen (06:09):
As you're reading all these very heavy volumes. What was it that actually turned your mind to faith? I believe it was another
heavy volume of a very differentkind.
Corey Rosenke (06:21):
Yeah, for me, it was, I'd say a large part of that was CS Lewis, specifically, Mere Christianity. I remember our family
were church goers, and going tochurch one day and some of the church finding out that I was a reader and that I love reading heavy
books. He said, You should read CSLewis. And he looking back, I think he probably meant the Chronicles of Narnia, because I was pretty, pretty
(06:42):
young at the time when I was firstintroduced to this. But for me, it was Mere Christianity book by CS Lewis that really kind of for me
bridge that gap between thinking andfaith from looking at the world philosophically and even psychologically, and bridging that
gap and saying, Hey, faith andpsychology or Faith and Philosophy are not two separate roads, they are in fact, parallel paths, oftentimes.
(07:05):
And so he kind of is the one thatbridged that gap for me, CS Lewis, and AW Tozer I would say, specifically, were people that
bridge that gap for me.
Rodney Olsen (07:13):
Many people try and say that science or understanding must be very separate from religion, that religion is this blind faith
kind of thing, then there's the realstudy, and yet, you're saying there's a bridge between this and understanding between that they can
go hand in hand helped me understandthat a little bit better.
Corey Rosenke (07:35):
And I would say that they've they've always gone hand in hand. Well, I think it would come back to confirmation bias to a
certain degree, the people inhistory who have somehow touted the science as to being you know, the opposite, or the an anti faith an
antidote to faith, even our peoplewho entered it with their own agenda, there are plenty of scientists, great thinkers
(07:57):
throughout history, who kept theirfaith and can see how science completely aligns with In fact, I would go further than I would say,
the science, by definition is theobservance in the documentation of life and existence. And so it is limited to what can be observed and
documented. And anything beyondthat, is theory. Of course, we live in a world that strangely and often goes beyond the ability to observe
(08:21):
which goes beyond the scope ofscience. And yet, sometimes we're still told that it's science, when truly it isn't, its theory at that
point. Not only what I'd say is, isfaith and science compatible, but I would say that faith is actually the foundation of good science.
Rodney Olsen (08:37):
And as we look at the volumes that you had been reading to that point, of course, coming to faith would have shined a very
different light on that, as you say,not completely discounting some of those earlier books that you read, but letting you see them through a
very different lens.
Corey Rosenke (08:55):
Well, I specifically remember for me a moment I was reading the Iliad by Homer, for what must have been the fourth or fifth
time, for whatever reason that thatBooker had really connected with me as an especially young age. In that book, it has Achilles and Hector and
the Greeks and the Trojans, inbattle, the battle of Troy, the Greek gods have kind of split forces. And the chaos amongst the
(09:21):
quote unquote gods is just as realas it is among the people. There's adultery, there's backstabbing, there's betrayal. And I remember
specifically having a moment where Isat up, and I thought, God isn't like this. And then it made me ask the question, well, who is he then?
And that really drove me into intostudying it. It changed my life actually, that moment, that evening, sitting in my little study, reading
(09:46):
the Iliad is kind of what reallysparked it. For me what really solidified hey, if there's a God out there, I need to know who he is.
Rodney Olsen (09:53):
And where do you see the line between understanding faith understanding Christianity and actually feeling that coal that tug
on the heart that comes through theSpirit?
Corey Rosenke (10:04):
Well, I would say it's one of those cliche terms, head knowledge versus heart knowledge, they say that knowledge is new
awareness. So essentially, knowledgeis awareness, if I get a new knowledge, it means I've gained a new awareness about something.
Whereas wisdom is then the correctapplication of that new awareness, or that new knowledge. And I think for many people, we can have the
(10:30):
awakening of an awareness, yet we donot respond to that awareness. And so for me, I think that is that difference, it is the there is an
intellectual awareness, you know,versus putting it into practice for as an example, I can have a knowledge of something I can say I
have a knowledge, you know, ofweather patterns. And I can look at the sky or the the forecast and, and since that tomorrow is going to be a
(10:55):
windy, rainy day. And that'sknowledge. But wisdom is going to add to that wisdom is going to say, Okay, it's going to be a windy day,
tomorrow, rainy day. So now I needto bring in the lawn furniture, right, I need to put a tarp over the motorbike, or whatever it is, wisdom
actually does something about it.For some people, it's the process, you know, and so knowledge naturally comes before wisdom before the step
(11:17):
of the action towards thatknowledge. And sometimes that takes time, the hopefully, for a lot of people, it's not very much. And for
other people, they get stuck in theknowledge aspect to the head knowledge. To be honest, that's one of the reasons I wrote my book was
to help people get out of that rutand actually say, hey, there's a design to all this. The sooner you move forward with this knowledge and
do something about it, the better.
Rodney Olsen (11:38):
And the book is very much about understanding the human condition, why we do the things that we do. What's it really all about?
And I suppose this is the pursuitthat you've been on for quite some time is that the pursuit that led you into becoming a pastor as well,
Corey Rosenke (11:55):
I was a pastor before that. What led me into this book, to be honest, was I was actually preaching the Easter series in 2018,
five week Easter series. Of course,on Easter Sunday, I often saints is the Super Bowl for Christians, right, everybody's there, the week
by week attenders, they're not goingto miss it. We have a lot of Christmas and Easter attenders people who don't attend church
(12:16):
outside of Christmas and Easter, butthey always show up on those dates. And then of course, you always have the people who don't want to be
there at all. But they're visitingfamily. And so they're essentially forced to come to church. And so I was really wondering, how can I
preach a message that shows that thegospel is relevant to each one of them, regardless of where they're at. And that was really where I,
where I started this kind of, in myyears of pursuing the knowledge of, you know, philosophy and psychology and neurosis all came together,
(12:44):
along with faith along with theScripture, this is where my book was really birthed from was trying to say, hey, regardless of where you're
at, on the faith spectrum, realclose are way far away. The awareness of God is irrelevant to you. And so that's really what it
is. And so I started off preachingit to a church, I've been quite amazed actually, at the response that I have, from people who aren't
(13:07):
people of faith. I speak to a lot ofpsychologists and therapists and atheists and people of all different faith backgrounds, and there's just
a hunger out there for people tounderstand and hear about their soul. And ultimately, that that's what the book is about. It's a more
than a brain or body, you are asoul. And that God designed you this way for a purpose.
Rodney Olsen (13:27):
And it's interesting that all those years back, when you started to read about faith, it was that book by CS Lewis, who obviously
wrote for a wider audience than justthose who would fill the pews on a Sunday. And here you are, again, you're you're reaching out with this
book that is very Christian atheart, and yet, it goes to a readership that goes far further than just the four walls of a
(13:53):
church, doesn't it?
Corey Rosenke (13:54):
It does. And that's something that has been a pleasant and exciting surprise. I live in Silicon Valley, which to use
Christian terms, I would say is oneof the most spiritually dark places on earth. There's not a whole lot of open heartedness to the gospel here.
And so because I minister in thisenvironment, I've learned to use language that is not in itself inflammatory, but to say, hey, let's
(14:16):
let's meet at a common point hereand work forward from there. And so that, fortunately, bled into the book. And so a lot of people who
normally wouldn't read a book offaith, are comfortable reading this because it approaches it from a different standpoint.
Rodney Olsen (14:28):
The book's title is magnetic heart of God, understanding the five cravings of your soul. And I know that this has been a
lifetime's work for you of searchingout the soul and knowing what really makes us tick. When you came to put it down on paper, or as you say,
originally within that sermonseries, what were the things that started to open up to you what were the things that you found? Aha, this
(14:53):
is something that really needs to bein that book.
Corey Rosenke (14:56):
It really was for me the response of the congregation Listen, I was amazed at how people would come up to me and say, Wow,
all this finally makes sense. It wasreally to be honest, their encouragement, they're like, Wow, you have to do more on this, you
have to talk more about this.There's something here that I've never heard before. And it just, it's opened my eyes and opened my
heart. And that's kind of whatreally compelled me into it. The book was a process of four years of writing and research and deleting it
(15:25):
all because I thought it wasn't anygood. And starting again, and writing and research and, and finally, I got a copy about a year
and a half ago, where I kind ofthought I was at the point where it was done. And I shared it with some people. And all of them said, We
love the content, but it reads likea thesis. So I went back to rewrite it because I wanted it to be an easy read something that was accessible
for everybody rewrote it to try touse more plain language. It was definitely a long and arduous process. Looking back on it, I'm
(15:51):
very thankful for all those earlymornings and late nights and weekends where I just spent huddled over my laptop typing and thinking
and just thankful that the Lord wasable to produce something like this, and very excited about the journey that I'm on right now.
Rodney Olsen (16:06):
It's interesting that you wrote it and rewrote it. Do you think that because your standard reading volume, or are these great
volumes from over centuries in thepast that you were trying to hold yourself to a very high standard, and you just wanted to make it that
good?
Corey Rosenke (16:24):
That's exactly what it was. It's very perceptive of you. For those who have never read CS Lewis, you know, if they pick up one
of Louis's books now, it's prettyhard to read for a while until your brain adapts to the lofty language and imagery that he uses. And, and
so it's funny so that, definitelythat classic literature that I had grown up in had kind of poured all over the pages of my book, making it
(16:47):
just difficult to read for a lot ofpeople. That's where I had to go back and say, Okay, let me click, let me clean this up and make it
something that's more palatable.
Rodney Olsen (16:55):
Tell me about some of the lessons in there. What are some of the lessons that people have grasped hold of both those that were
in the congregation when you werepreaching through the message series, but also those who've now had the opportunity to read the
book? What is it that's reallypopping out to them that is grabbing them, that is making them say, Hey, I'd never understood things like
(17:16):
this before.
Corey Rosenke (17:17):
The first would be the knowledge that our souls are the core of who we are. We live in a culture that is obsessed with the
cravings of the brain and the body.It's our cultural obsession. It's what every politician bases their promises on, it's what every
television commercial is, ispromoting the cravings of the brain and the body. Meanwhile, our souls are starving to death, our souls are
(17:38):
the core of who we are. So I'd saythat that's the first thing that people have responded to is there like as soon as you say it, and as
soon as you begin to describe it, oroffer evidence to it, everyone immediately grabs on to say, I know this to be true. I am more than just
this biological shape, kind oflumbering through life and time, it's not just about nerve endings, and neurons firing in my brain,
(18:00):
there's, there's something deeper towho I am. I often talk to people about this on this level, right? And just describing that, the fact that
we have souls is yes, a biblicalstatement. It is also a scientific statement and going through the evidences of that for people. So
that's first, I think, just this theawareness that people gain that they're not just a mind, they are not just a body, they are a soul.
(18:24):
And truly their soul is the boss.And so that's the first awareness that people have been responding to. And the second awareness is that the
soul is not ambiguous. It's not somemute or passive part of our being that's tethered to our flesh and only becomes activated after we die.
It's the seat of our personhood now.And this is where the human behavior element really comes in your deepest desires, our deepest ambitions, our
(18:48):
deepest decision making choices arenot rooted in neuroscience or psychology. They're rooted in the soul, they come from a deeper
source, I identify five cravings ofthe soul that I believe are the root of all human ambition. And you can understand your spouse you can
understand your neighbor, you canunderstand your favorite politician or your most reviled politician or understand yourself for that matter.
(19:14):
By simply looking at it through thelens of these five cravings. It simplifies if I could use that term human understanding where I can
finally look at someone and say, Idon't pretend to know everything, but I know that this behavior or this reaction is rooted in one of
these five cravings, that allows meto love them that allows me to adapt that allows me to truly draw near to them and be a support to them in a
(19:39):
way that is actually helpful.
Rodney Olsen (19:41):
I imagine that there's a great sense of relief for many people in that finally it clicks, what they've already known, more or
less internally that they don't haveto keep trying to satisfy the desires of the mind the desires of the body and ignore this thing
called Well, the soul. And theremust be a moment for many people when there's this. Ah, finally, I can start to be what I was created
(20:09):
to be.
Corey Rosenke (20:10):
Yeah, we live in an age of unprecedented prosperity. And when I say unprecedented prosperity, I mean in the history of the world,
I mean, there's never been ageneration, like the generations alive today, who have had such unfettered access to, to freedom to
leisure to wealth, opportunities tocomfort, to entertainment to world travel. And yet virtually every study shows that mankind in general
(20:37):
is more unhappy than ever. And Ithink a large part of the reason for this is because we have been searching for peace and happiness.
In the biological, we've beensearching for it, simply in these tangible things around us. And we weren't designed to find peace and
happiness in those places. That'swhy the book is called the magnetic heart of God, understanding the five cravings of your soul. I believe
(21:01):
that God placed these cravingsinside of us for the purpose of ultimately drawing us back to himself. Because we can't find
satisfaction for them. In worldlythings, we can find satisfaction temporarily. And of course, we in the world can say we've we've gone
through seasons, at least hopefully,most people have experienced seasons of joy and happiness and peace. But there's always an agitation of some
(21:23):
sort. It's never quite enough. Andso for people, what I think has been enlightening to them is to say, is this finally understand what they're
looking for? People are scouring theglobe, but they don't actually quite know what they're looking for. And so what the book does is it helps
identify this is what you're lookingfor. And now that you know what you're looking for, you have a chance of finding it.
Rodney Olsen (21:42):
And there would be many people who, as I say, would have that great sense of relief. It's like, I've known for so long
that there's something missing, andyou've put your finger on it. And this is starting to make sense. Does the book then tell you how to go
from that knowing of that, tounderstanding how do we fulfill the desires that are truly there in our heart, how we can be reconciled back
(22:08):
to the magnetic heart of God?
Corey Rosenke (22:10):
Absolutely. The second chapter in the book revolves around understanding why it's called the deep why. And then one of the
latter chapters of the book iscalled the deep how, you know, so we spend a lot of time exploring why things are the way they are, why
people are reacting the way theyare. And then as we as the book comes through, draws to an end. Yeah, I felt it was very important,
(22:33):
obviously, not just to leave peoplehanging, but then to introduce that Okay, now, how do we address this, I definitely want to move towards
resolution. What has been amazing tome is how people of all different backgrounds, actually, there's a missionary group right now who is
suggested they'd like to use thisfor missionary purposes, because they feel it really explains why people of faith believe the things
(22:56):
that they believe. And again, thosethese are all things I did not expect when I was reading the book. The book is called The Magnetic
Heart of God. I said, understandingthe five cravings of your soul because I believe I said, God placed these cravings inside of us, they
give a homing device almost like amagnet, in order to draw us back to himself. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, these are cravings
(23:17):
of the soul, which means they're nonbiological cravings, and non biological cravings cannot be satisfied and biological things.
Rodney Olsen (23:25):
How often do you think that we have faith those people of us who are part of a church have been duped into chasing after the
same things the world is chasingafter? Even though we know there's a soul even though we know that there is a God who seeks to draw close to
us? How often are we still dupedinto chasing after the things the world tells us we should chase?
Corey Rosenke (23:51):
I think it's constant. And I think it's perceptive of you to pick up on it is one of our primary hindrances in
the church and that forgive me forusing this language. But I think it's the most descriptive, I think, I think a lot of us have come to
view God as a sugar daddy, in thatwe've come to faith. And rather than realizing that our hope is in a completely different place than it
(24:14):
used to be, what we've done is wecome to God and we say, now God, now that I quote, unquote, believe in you, I need you to help me satisfy
my biological cravings in the sameway that all the non believers are looking for it. So at the end of the day, the Christian is looking for
hope in a new house and a new careerand good health just like everybody else. And I believe when you actually read the scriptures, when
(24:40):
you get right down into it, there'ssomething different that is promised to us in the scriptures. There is a joy that surpasses understanding.
There's a peace that surpassesunderstanding. We are meant to experience fulfillment in life, even in the absence of all the
opportunities and the blessings thatthe world is pursuing. it in. But oftentimes in the church, we're looking for it in the same places
(25:03):
only now we're looking to God tohelp us gain it in the same fallible places. And it's resulted I honestly, in a lot of
disillusionment in the church. Infact, I would say, it's one of the biggest reasons why a lot of churches are shrinking, because
people came to faith, or they cameto the church, mostly with the idea that God was going to help them, you know, satisfy their personal
(25:25):
biological dreams. And they haven'tbeen able to grasp that God is saying, Oh, no, I have so much more for you, I have something so much
better for you. But they came herelooking for satisfaction of biological things. And they didn't find it. Not that God doesn't
obviously that I believe that Godabsolutely does supply those needs out of his goodness for us, oftentimes, but his plan is so much
more. It's so much better. It's somuch bigger.
Rodney Olsen (25:47):
And a big part of it is that understanding that what God wants for us, is way more satisfying. And once we get hold of
that, I guess, we're more likely tostart to pursue it in the way that you're suggesting.
Corey Rosenke (26:00):
Yeah. Absolutely. That's, I think, why people have been connected with the book the way they have is because the book really
identifies what it is we're lookingfor. It names what has been left unnamed, for a long time, even the soul as a person of faith. As a
pastor and a lifelong, you knowattender of church, I can say that we talk about the soul all the time, we sing about the soul all the time.
(26:25):
And yet it's really been left assomething that's ambiguous, to a certain degree, almost like Star Wars, where they talk about the
force, right? It's, we know there'ssomething about it, and we know that there's something powerful about it. But that said, it's left a mystery.
And I think that the book reallyunlocks the mystery and is able to bring definition to things, which again, allows us to comprehend them
(26:45):
and pursue them with much moresuccess.
Rodney Olsen (26:49):
Corey, if people are wanting to get a hold of that book, magnetic heart of God, or if they're wanting to get in touch with you,
where's the easiest place for themto find you.
Corey Rosenke (26:58):
The easiest place to find me is coreyrosenke.com. My website which can direct people to the book, or allows people to
contact me directly or learn moreabout me. Or of course, for those who are interested in the book, if you just saved the magnetic card of
God, or understanding the fivecravings of your soul into whatever browser you use it, the book should pop up available in a bookstore near
(27:20):
you.
Rodney Olsen (27:20):
And I will put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net. So if you missed those references, just head
to that website and you'll be ableto find all the details. Cory, thank you so much for writing the book and telling your story and thank you for
your time today on BleedingDaylight.
Corey Rosenke (27:37):
Thank you so much.
Emily Olsen (27:38):
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode
with others. For further details andmore episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net
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