November 26, 2023 • 29 mins
It’s been called a social lubricant, a way to unwind after a long day, or even something that gets the party started, but for many people, alcohol is a daily battle. Sometimes it’s an obvious struggle but many times, alcohol use disorder is source of shame, hidden from even those closest to the one facing the battle. Katie Lain struggled with alcohol use disorder for almost 10 years, cycling in and out of periods of heavy drinking and quitting alcohol. These days, she is free of its grip on her life and helping others break free.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Emily Olsen (00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding
daylight with your host RodneyOlsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:18):
Welcome to this episode of Bleeding Daylight. Please remember, there are many more episodes at bleedingdaylight.net
Please connect with BleedingDaylight on social media. What do you do when the lines are blurred between what's socially acceptable
and sometimes even celebrated? Andwhat can be called an addiction? Today's guest has an answer for those who feel trapped.
(00:53):
It's been called a social lubricant,a way to unwind after a long day or even something that gets the party started. But for many people,
alcohol is a daily battle. Sometimesit's an obvious struggle. But many times alcohol use disorder is a source of shame. It's hidden from
even those closest to the one facingthe battle. Katie Lane struggled with alcohol use disorder for almost 10 years cycling in and out of
(01:21):
periods of heavy drinking andquitting alcohol. These days, she is free of its grip on her life, and helping others to break free. It's a
pleasure to welcome her to bleedingdaylight. Katie, thank you so much for your time.
Katie Lain (01:34):
Yeah, honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Rodney Olsen (01:37):
I know that you're very keen to share the treatment that you discovered, so that others can find the help that they need.
But first, tell me a little bitabout your relationship with alcohol and where it began.
Katie Lain (01:48):
In the United States. Our legal drinking age is 21, and I remember when I turned 21, I really didn't like to drink alcohol. I
remember my 21st birthday peoplewere buying me drinks and I was giving them away because I was just sipping on a beer here and there and
hated the feeling of being drunk,hated being hungover, really just didn't care about alcohol. And that kind of kept me in the mindset that,
(02:11):
oh, I will never have a problem withalcohol. Like that's just something that won't impact me, even though it definitely is something that runs in
my family. What happened for me isthey progressed into my 20s is I started to really, quote unquote, party more and drink more regularly
and binge drink and just kind ofbelieved it was a phase I was going through. And once I got a little bit older, I would kind of rein it in,
(02:35):
so to speak, you know, not drink asmuch. What happened for me was after a few years of really heavy drinking, kind of naively thinking
that I was invincible to developingan alcohol dependence. I became addicted. And I realized that when I remember it, so clearly, I was
sitting on the beach, I live inCalifornia sitting on the beach one day, I always brought drinks to the beach. And I was like, when was the
(02:59):
last time that I haven't had adrink. Like I couldn't remember the last alcohol free day that I had had. It had been over a year. And
that kind of scared me. And I waslike, I'm just gonna take a week long break from drinking. And I remember that week being just the
most difficult experience for me,because all I wanted to do was drink I was fighting cravings every single day and just counting down the days
(03:23):
until the week was over. And I couldfinally drink again. And that's when I realized, oh, no, this is more than a phase. And I think I'm
hooked. And that's really where Istarted the cycle of trying to quit and then returning to drinking over and over again for several years.
Rodney Olsen (03:39):
It's interesting that you talk about getting that taste for alcohol, even though at first you weren't all that interested. Do
you think that was about the taste?Or was it because it was socially acceptable, that you forced yourself to to enjoy the taste of alcohol?
Katie Lain (03:56):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it largely did have to do with the people I was associating with and the
environments I was in, and not toblame those people at all. I was an adult and I take full responsibility, but I think I was
just extremely naive to howaddictive alcohol was and the fact that even if I didn't want to become addicted, and I didn't think that I
(04:18):
would that it didn't mean that I wasinvincible to it and that really what I've learned is that anyone with enough repeated drinking can
develop an alcohol use disorder. Andso for me, you know, I was really associating with people who were really heavy drinkers, people I was
hanging out with on a daily basis inparticular a man I was dating at the time he enjoyed drinking daily and I remember thinking like you want a
(04:44):
drink right now like you know, wejust drink yesterday and but to kind of like bond with him and have something in common. I would pick up
drinks and kind of join the partyand then before I knew it, I was the one initiating the drinking and it really become my own habit. I do
think It had a lot to do with theenvironment and the people that I was hanging around combined with me just being naive to how addictive
(05:07):
alcohol is.
Rodney Olsen (05:08):
So after that week where you discovered, yep, I'm really hooked, and I need to do something about it. What was the
first efforts that you tried to sayI need to get clean from this?
Katie Lain (05:20):
Well, my first efforts were like that seven day break, that was kind of my attempt at these different patterns, or just methods,
if you will, of me thinking, okay,maybe if I just take a break from drinking, it will help to reset my habits. And so I was constantly
taking these breaks, whether it waslike, Okay, I'm not going to drink Monday through Thursday, or I'm going to take a 30 day break, or I'm
(05:43):
just going to take two days off, Iwas always trying to have chunks of alcohol free time thinking that that would help to reset my habits, which
it did not. Now I know, there'sactually a well researched phenomenon that proves there's a thing called the alcohol deprivation
effect where you can actually cravealcohol more if you abstain from it once you're addicted. That was one thing I did, I also really tried to
(06:07):
set rules and moderate my drinkingand just try to keep it in controlled levels, like two drinks per day, which was always pretty
much impossible for me to do once Istarted, I did try to go to programs like AA. At the time, I went to only two meetings, because the one in my
town, I was a girl in my mid 20s.And most everyone, there was older men in their 50s and 60s, kind of rough people. And so I was like, Ah,
(06:33):
this isn't for me. But I wasconstantly reading literature and watching talks online and going to different workshops, like personal
development workshops, and thingslike that, before I really had my own faith. This was before I developed faith that I have now. I
was just really seeking lots ofexternal community and support and then also just trying to really be more disciplined with my drinking,
(06:57):
but none of that really worked longterm.
Rodney Olsen (07:00):
I imagine that each time you failed at just using your own self discipline to stop, you would probably be finding comfort in
the alcohol the very thing that youwere trying to quit.
Katie Lain (07:12):
Oh, spot on. Yeah, it was like, whenever I would try to take breaks from alcohol, it was like me having an itch that I was
not allowed to scratch. And it wasjust like, Okay, how long can I go without scratching this itch. And then when I would just feel so
exhausted and not have any willpowerleft, you know, one little thing could just set me off, whether it was a comment my coworker made or
(07:35):
just a stressful day or even a goodday, I would just be like, forget it, I'm gonna go ahead and drink those first few drinks were just
like the relief that I was lookingfor. But then, of course, the next day, there would always be regret and things like that. But it's
really this vicious cycle becausethe alcohol kind of relieves that craving and that desire we have for it temporarily. But then it always
(07:57):
comes back again the next day. Andit's it's so hard to get out of that.
Rodney Olsen (08:00):
I mentioned in the introduction that for some people, alcohol can be a problem, and yet they're able to hide it, and those
around them don't realize how bigthe problem is. And for others, it's just very obvious. Where do you sit on that? Did your family did your
friends know what you were goingthrough the time?
Katie Lain (08:19):
They did, to some extent, you know, there was a period of time where my family, I live in a different state. So it's about a 10
hour drive from my family, severalmembers of my family came down and tried to kind of stage an intervention, if you will, they were
concerned, I was drinking too much.Um, however, I come from a family of heavy drinkers. So I think they were drinking a lot as well at the time,
(08:40):
but maybe I was living a moredestructive life. They were aware of that. And they did try to do an intervention. And it was extremely
unsuccessful. I actually ended upnot talking to them for a year after that, which is another story. But they were aware of it. Then as I got
older, because it did continue oninto my late 20s. And I got help with this treatment right around the age of 30. I did start to become
(09:03):
more sophisticated about it andconceal it more and kind of maybe go out to parties and I would get really drunk sometimes and it'd be
really obvious but other times Iwould be able to hide it and come home and have a bottle of wine that I drink to myself after you know my
husband went to bed. I think somepeople could tell because, you know, they just could see how much alcohol I could hold. But I was you know, a
(09:25):
functioning person. I had a job andthings like that. But I did conceal it for the most part. And maybe in hindsight, I don't think I did a
great job. I think it was moreobvious than I thought but concealed it enough to where you know wasn't wreaking havoc in my personal or
professional life.
Rodney Olsen (09:41):
There are many drugs that we just see someone who's partaking in that and we think that's the wrong thing to do. And
yet we see alcohol as being a verysocially acceptable drug. And you mentioned there how people could see how much alcohol you could hold and
and rather than that being a fly Ithink for some people, that's a badge of honor. It's like, oh, she holds her alcohol well, and people
(10:05):
can see that as a strength ratherthan the weakness that it had become for you. How much does that play into people becoming dependent on
alcohol, the fact that our culture'sactually celebrate drinking, and in fact, to celebrate drinking to access?
Katie Lain (10:20):
Oh, my gosh, that is spot on how you phrase that, and it's so true, especially in my family, you know, I have Irish
roots. And so being able to, youknow, stay up all night and take whiskey shots. It's just like, if you can do that, it's like, wow,
you're super tough. And it'ssomething that's really glorified, in a way and not to mention that, like, during my heavy drinking
(10:41):
period, it was really easy for me tohave friends and associate with people who were also heavy drinkers. And in fact, I really only liked to
hang out with people, if I knew thatthey were going to drink like I did, it was this really confusing place, because I would, you know, sign up
for 5k runs that are like, okay,that's healthy, you're going on a run on a Saturday morning. But it would be the ones that like served
(11:02):
unlimited beer at the end. And so Ido this job, usually hungover, and then I would get drunk at the end of it. Having alcohol really
intertwined into every single aspectof our culture, even the job I had, at the time had a beer cake that they would bring out on Fridays. And
we're always going to happy hours.And so I had this real internal conflict of like, this is one thing that like, socially is so
(11:23):
acceptable, and we use it tocelebrate, you have this very dark side where I was drinking to excess, pretty much seven days a week, hung
over so much shame, guilt, anxiety,driving, mold, drinking, getting pulled over almost getting a DUI, doing things I don't remember,
because I was blacked out and all ofthis dark side of it. So I was like, Do I have a drinking problem? Like it's normal? You know, they're
(11:46):
drinking like that, too. And it'sjust this real, internal conflict that I think a lot of Americans and really people around the world
struggle with. And they're in thatquestioning place and wondering, you know, do I have a drinking problem?
Rodney Olsen (11:59):
I suppose that that is one of the things that exacerbates it, because people can have a drinking problem for so long before
recognizing it as such, because upto a certain point, it's just fitting in with the culture. And as you say, you were drinking. And it
wasn't until you finally challengedyourself on that beach, that you started to realize something is not quite right. So I imagine there are
(12:26):
many people that have a problem withalcohol, but they don't yet see it as such.
Katie Lain (12:31):
Yeah, absolutely. And I have to be honest, like, I think part of the challenge too, for me and what I see with others, and I
know we're going to talk more aboutthe treatment that I use the finally freed me from it. But when I was addicted to alcohol, you know, even
though it was very destructive forme, the thought of never drinking again was terrifying for me. And I would be super gung ho and committed
(12:52):
on you know, day one, or day two, orday three of like, I'm not drinking anymore, but then the craving would come back. And I would imagine this
life without alcohol, I've neverbeen able to touch it again. And that was terrifying for me. And I hear the same for others where the
thought of being abstinent foreverand not being able to drink alcohol, again, is scary. So I think, for me, it kind of kept me stuck where I was
(13:12):
for a long time, because I thoughtthat the only option available was total and complete abstinence, like going to Alcoholics Anonymous. And I
think that's a great program. My dadis over 30 years sober because of it. But I knew it wasn't for me. And I'm what I'm learning is that it's
not for a lot of other people aswell, because there's a lot of people, especially if you put them in maybe a gray area drinker
(13:33):
category where they're functioningin life, but they're drinking a bottle of wine every night. Those are kind of people that perhaps want
to at least start by, okay, I wantto cut back I want to have two glasses of wine a couple of nights a week. And not more than that. But
it's really hard to do that once youare in the place of alcohol use disorder. It's hard to kind of reverse back until I learned about
(13:53):
this treatment that I us it allowedme to do that.
Rodney Olsen (13:55):
And even before you found that treatment, which as you say we certainly want to discuss, you say that you found faith. Tell
me about that journey for you.
Katie Lain (14:05):
I actually came to the faith after the treatment after I had actually gone through it and gotten over my alcohol addiction.
This treatment allowed me to kind ofstart by reducing my drinking and I was drinking moderately for about the course of one year and ended up
going alcohol free completelythrough this treatment sort of by accident because I just got to a place of really being uninterested
(14:26):
in alcohol which is so funny becauseit was like just impossible for me to even go a couple of days without drinking let alone now it's been
about five years after getting soberI actually for the first time in my life like started to think about is there a God before that I was very
much into like the New Age beliefsystem if you will, or I kind of believed I was God and I was going to reincarnate and just like out
(14:50):
there stuff that I believe for along time. And I remember just for like six months I considered myself spiritual and for six months I kept
getting this thought if you're soSpiritual, you should read a Bible like that's the most spiritual book that exists. And I kept delaying it
or ignoring it and not buying aBible. One day I actually kind of felt frustrated because I had been seeing some scriptures posted on my
(15:12):
Facebook from some Christian friendsof mine and just seeing all these like scriptures and people talking about Jesus. And I was like, Ah, why
are all these people so obsessedwith Jesus? Like, I remember praying one day and be like Jesus, if you're the who, who Bible says you are
like, just show me and I was kind ofpraying from this place of like, you know, wanting to prove everyone else wrong in a way, but I was sincere in
(15:34):
my prayer. And it was really thefirst time I had ever prayed because in the new age, I really believed in just manifestation and like, it's
not about a humble heart of prayer.It's more about like, what can I attract in my life. So I prayed, and then within like, 24 hours, it's as
if like, the scales were lifted frommy eyes. And I could see that what I'd been doing with my life, like with Tarot cards, and psychics and
(15:58):
new agey type practices, thosethings were not of God. And he just showed me so clearly, that's when I fell on my face and was just weeping
and really started to follow Jesus.And that was about three and a half years ago now. And I've just been a devoted follower ever since.
Rodney Olsen (16:14):
Tell me about the treatment that you discovered. Because, as you say, you tried at least for a couple of meetings to go
to AA. And there are various otherprograms that are available that as you suggest, work for some people, but it's not for everyone. But you
found something that has been veryeffective for you tell me about that.
Katie Lain (16:34):
The treatment that I use, and that was the thing that finally actually worked for me is actually a decade's old science
based treatment that's beenresearched since the 90s. With a clinically proven 78% success rate, that actually helps the alcohol
addiction be unlearned,neurologically what the researcher his name was Dr. David Sinclair, what he discovered in his research
(17:00):
that was done first on rats, andthen in humans, the research was done in Finland, was that alcohol addiction is actually a learned
behavior. People aren't bornalcoholics, it's something that is essentially developed over time with repeated drinking. And some people
have genetics, like I did, wheremaybe I was more sensitive to developing an alcohol addiction. But his research showed that really, it
(17:21):
can happen to anyone, with enoughrepeated drinking, because alcohol is rewarding for the brain. And so with this treatment, there's
actually a medicine that's availablein most parts of the world. It's a generic medicine, it's non addictive, it's very cheap. It's
called naltrexone. And this medicineis taken one hour before drinking. So that's something that was so unique about this treatment is that
(17:45):
it didn't require me to abstain fromdrinking, the whole goal was to start it while it was still drinking, in order to get on the
path to reduction of alcohol. And soI started it. And it was really miraculous, honestly, like, within the first week on the treatment, I
had an alcohol free day, which wasreally difficult for me to do. Generally, I was drinking seven days a week. And it wasn't that hard, I
(18:08):
just didn't really feel likedrinking continued on the treatment. I did it for a year. And over that year, my drinking just continued to
reduce more and more and more andgot to a point where, you know, I was drinking one or two glasses of wine once or twice a month, that was
all I wanted to drink. And Imaintain that level for a few months, I kind of went alcohol free by accident where after a little
(18:30):
over a year on the treatment, I justreally was so uninterested in alcohol and had no desire for drinking that I decided, okay, I
guess I'm not going to drinkanymore. And that was about five years ago now. And I think one of the greatest things about this
protocol for me is that the resultswere permanent, like the the medicine is only taken one hour before drinking. And so the longer I
(18:51):
was using it, I was taking themedicine and drinking maybe once or twice a month. And then now it's been over five years, and I don't
have any cravings for alcohol, Idon't have any triggers or desire for alcohol, people can be drinking the best champagne around me and I
have no emotion or no desire to haveit, I feel. And this is what the researcher said, who discovered this treatment, it's like your brain gets
(19:13):
restored back to the state it was inbefore the addiction ever set in place. So I feel as if like the addiction was reversed from my
brain, essentially. And so it's anincredibly powerful science based protocol that's been around for decades. Unfortunately, there's a
really little awareness about it.And there's a few reasons for that. But since it freed me from it, I've really been inspired just to
(19:35):
advocate and tell others about it.
Rodney Olsen (19:38):
One of the criticisms of using Naltrexone is that you have to be very vigilant in using the tablet and the owl before you start
drinking. And people would say,Well, someone who has an alcohol addiction, they're not going to be doing that. And yet what you're
saying is it's not just the takingthe tablet, but there's the support that goes along with that helps those people who are facing an
(20:03):
addiction to alcohol.
Katie Lain (20:04):
There's actually a book that really dives into all of the research behind this treatments written by a man named Dr. Roy
Eskapa. But in the book just to kindof address your first question, because that is a question I get a lot is like, yeah, right, and
alcoholics not going to take a pillbefore drinking. But in his research, it showed that actually, about 85% of the people complied
with taking the medicine, in myexperience, personally with it. And then as a coach as well, I would say the majority of people, it's a non
(20:31):
issue for them, because so manypeople start this treatment just wanting to put this issue behind them. What we often say to people is
that the protocol on the medicine ishalf the equation like I genuinely tribute my sobriety today, and being able to become a quote unquote,
normal drinker to this medicationlike I tried for years before and nothing worked, my drinking just got worse. There's also a behavioral
(20:55):
component to it, where peopleperhaps have been relying on alcohol to cope for years or decades, or, like me, it was my habit for nearly
10 years, every night I was I wasdrinking in the evenings. And that's a very ingrained habit. Even with the medicine, I had to find other
ways to spend my time and reallyfind other healthier coping tools. So that's where the other side of the treatment comes in. And also to
(21:18):
help with compliance andencouragement for that as well, for people to just stick with it. It's not an overnight fix, many people
will see pretty significant changesin the first month. But for most of us, it takes several months, maybe even longer to kind of gradually
unlearn the patterns of alcohol usedisorder and, and change our habits and behaviors around it as well.
Rodney Olsen (21:38):
And as you say, it has a 78% success rate, which of course means that there are some people who are not going to get clean by using
this treatment. And some would usethat as a criticism, and yet 78%. That's a fairly high percentage. And I guess that's where you would say,
hey, look, there are other methodsthat people can try if this one is not for them. But this one is showing a very high success rate. So
(22:07):
it's a matter of finding what isgoing to work for the person. And this is one of those that has a very high probability of working.
Katie Lain (22:14):
Yeah, I mean, especially in the you know, kind of existing treatment system of what's been done over the last century or so it's
actually estimated to have a reallyhigh failure rate or relapse rate. There was one study I was reading where it said that they recognize
that alcoholism is a chronicrelapsing condition where 80% or more of people relapse within six months of leaving treatment. So it's
(22:36):
interesting that the success rate is80%. And then the relapse rate and traditional treatment is around 80%. With the Sinclair method, and
naltrexone, it's not going to workfor everyone. And, again, kind of referencing the book that dives into all the research the cure for
alcoholism, it talks about, youknow, the 22% that it doesn't work for, or that it didn't work for and the trials, a percentage of those
(22:57):
were actually people who weren'tcompliant. So back to your original kind of point about people not taking the medicine. So partially,
it's not working, because peopleperhaps aren't following the protocol. There's a lot of really exciting advances being done with
science and medicine with regards totreating alcohol addiction. And there's other medications that are really showing a lot of promise and
(23:18):
other kinds of alternativetreatments, which I can't personally speak to, but I just know that there's other modalities out there.
So I would say if someone'sstruggling and they you know, want to try naltrexone, I think it's a really powerful treatment, it's got
so much research behind it, ifyou're interested in the science, you can just look into some of these papers on naltrexone for alcohol,
but to also consider othertreatments like abstinence and just white knuckling it isn't isn't the only option, if that's something
(23:43):
that's not working for somebody.
Rodney Olsen (23:45):
The suggestion there is really coming back to that whole point that the medication on its own won't help you need to be a part of
a group that is actually supportingyou through this and helping you through this. And I know that that's really what you're advocating,
Katie Lain (23:59):
it's so important. I do believe too, because alcohol use disorder is such an isolating condition. And sometimes when we
even start on the medicationtreatment protocol, there's a lot to unpack, and a lot to uncover. And I think for some people, if they're
struggling with this and their lovedones, even if they're well intended, if they don't understand alcohol use disorder and what it's like to kind
(24:20):
of cope with it and to reallyovercome it through a treatment that seems illogical because you're still drinking, it can be really hard to
kind of see progress. And so what Ihear all of the time from people is just how valuable it is to connect with others who are in the middle of
it are going through it or have gonethrough it. And they can provide that source of encouragement and support and also just specific
(24:41):
instruction on what to expect thedifferent phases of the method how to change habits and and find different coping tools as well. So I
definitely encourage someone ifthey're considering medicine that recognize it's kind of half the half the equation, if you will, in that
the support side and really viewingit as a treatment protocols. The other half
Rodney Olsen (25:00):
You mentioned coming to faith sometime after going through the treatment. And I know that you've found since that alcohol
is something that doesn'tdiscriminate, and that there are many Christians, people who truly love the Lord who struggling with
alcohol, and I imagine for them,there's even a greater level of shame. Are you able to help some of these people who are following Jesus
(25:26):
and yet still have this issue withalcohol?
Katie Lain (25:30):
Yes, we have an online program that supports people through the treatment. And we have a Christian component inside of it,
where we have like a dedicated groupand live group support and Christian content to to support those people. And of course, we have non believers
in our program as well. So it'soptional. But yeah, it's really interesting how many people have said that this is an answer to
(25:52):
prayer, that they've tried so manyother things, and they feel like God has led them to this treatment, which I think that's something I
haven't just heard that once I hearit on maybe at least a monthly basis from people. And so I think it's really powerful to hear that
testimony. And also, I've heard fromChristians who some of them, the kind of consistent feedback I've heard is that they struggle to go to
programs like AAA for the fact thatwhat I've heard is that, you know, anything can be your God there. And so if they're sitting next to
(26:17):
someone who's worshiping the chairin front of them, they're like, well, that's not really aligned with my faith in the Christian God. So
that is a challenge. And then also,I think, just again, the more feedback I've gotten, and I don't think it's not to say anything bad
about pastors at all, I think, whenyou don't know what it's like to go through an alcohol addiction, you don't really know how to handle it.
Like, I wouldn't know how to helpsomeone with an opiate addiction. I just I don't know about that. I didn't walk that path myself
(26:42):
personally. But alcohol, I know itvery intimately. And so when people would turn to their pastors for help, and the pastor's advice is to
pray or just quit drinking, and Ibelieve God can supernaturally heal and remove that from people, you sovereign. And so why he doesn't
want some I have no idea. But Ithink sometimes people, even when they turn to their church or their pastor, they're not getting the
(27:03):
adequate support for it. Or theymight feel like they're getting judged or ridiculed. That's like an area where I really have a heart to
serve people that, you know, justletting the love of God transform them and let the Holy Spirit do the changing within them. But also, you
know, using this evidence basedtreatment alongside,
Rodney Olsen (27:21):
I know that the treatment will look different in different parts of the world, but it is widely available in many
countries around the world. So Isuppose that the first step for many people, if they're saying, this is something that I need to know more
about is to get in touch with you tojump onto your website and learn about it and then find a way to see that happen wherever they are in the
(27:45):
world. If that's the case forsomeone, and they wanting to get in touch with you or to find out even more about it, maybe for a loved
one, what's the best place to findyou?
Katie Lain (27:55):
On our website, it's just thrive, alcohol recovery.com. And our contact information is on there. We have a lot of just general
information about the treatmentprotocol and about our program. We have a lot of free resources, like a video course talking about what is
the method and things to know andmistakes people make. So there's a lot of resources people can look into for free. And then if they want
(28:17):
to contact us, you know, at leastpoint them in the right direction. Of course, if they're ready to get started, our program is available to
support as well.
Rodney Olsen (28:25):
Katie, it has been a delight to speak to you to hear of your story of being able to get rid of that alcohol addiction that
you've had that alcohol use disorderthat so controlled your life, which now has no place in it. And your opportunity to share that with many
other people and see a lot of otherpeople we freed from it. I want to thank you for sharing that story. And thank you for your time on
(28:50):
Bleeding Daylight.
Katie Lain (28:51):
Thank you so much for having me, Rodney. Great conversation.
Emily Olsen (28:55):
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode
with others. For further details andmore episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding
daylight with your host RodneyOlsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:18):
Welcome to this episode of Bleeding Daylight. Please remember, there are many more episodes at bleedingdaylight.net
Please connect with BleedingDaylight on social media. What do you do when the lines are blurred between what's socially acceptable
and sometimes even celebrated? Andwhat can be called an addiction? Today's guest has an answer for those who feel trapped.
(00:53):
It's been called a social lubricant,a way to unwind after a long day or even something that gets the party started. But for many people,
alcohol is a daily battle. Sometimesit's an obvious struggle. But many times alcohol use disorder is a source of shame. It's hidden from
even those closest to the one facingthe battle. Katie Lane struggled with alcohol use disorder for almost 10 years cycling in and out of
(01:21):
periods of heavy drinking andquitting alcohol. These days, she is free of its grip on her life, and helping others to break free. It's a
pleasure to welcome her to bleedingdaylight. Katie, thank you so much for your time.
Katie Lain (01:34):
Yeah, honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Rodney Olsen (01:37):
I know that you're very keen to share the treatment that you discovered, so that others can find the help that they need.
But first, tell me a little bitabout your relationship with alcohol and where it began.
Katie Lain (01:48):
In the United States. Our legal drinking age is 21, and I remember when I turned 21, I really didn't like to drink alcohol. I
remember my 21st birthday peoplewere buying me drinks and I was giving them away because I was just sipping on a beer here and there and
hated the feeling of being drunk,hated being hungover, really just didn't care about alcohol. And that kind of kept me in the mindset that,
(02:11):
oh, I will never have a problem withalcohol. Like that's just something that won't impact me, even though it definitely is something that runs in
my family. What happened for me isthey progressed into my 20s is I started to really, quote unquote, party more and drink more regularly
and binge drink and just kind ofbelieved it was a phase I was going through. And once I got a little bit older, I would kind of rein it in,
(02:35):
so to speak, you know, not drink asmuch. What happened for me was after a few years of really heavy drinking, kind of naively thinking
that I was invincible to developingan alcohol dependence. I became addicted. And I realized that when I remember it, so clearly, I was
sitting on the beach, I live inCalifornia sitting on the beach one day, I always brought drinks to the beach. And I was like, when was the
(02:59):
last time that I haven't had adrink. Like I couldn't remember the last alcohol free day that I had had. It had been over a year. And
that kind of scared me. And I waslike, I'm just gonna take a week long break from drinking. And I remember that week being just the
most difficult experience for me,because all I wanted to do was drink I was fighting cravings every single day and just counting down the days
(03:23):
until the week was over. And I couldfinally drink again. And that's when I realized, oh, no, this is more than a phase. And I think I'm
hooked. And that's really where Istarted the cycle of trying to quit and then returning to drinking over and over again for several years.
Rodney Olsen (03:39):
It's interesting that you talk about getting that taste for alcohol, even though at first you weren't all that interested. Do
you think that was about the taste?Or was it because it was socially acceptable, that you forced yourself to to enjoy the taste of alcohol?
Katie Lain (03:56):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it largely did have to do with the people I was associating with and the
environments I was in, and not toblame those people at all. I was an adult and I take full responsibility, but I think I was
just extremely naive to howaddictive alcohol was and the fact that even if I didn't want to become addicted, and I didn't think that I
(04:18):
would that it didn't mean that I wasinvincible to it and that really what I've learned is that anyone with enough repeated drinking can
develop an alcohol use disorder. Andso for me, you know, I was really associating with people who were really heavy drinkers, people I was
hanging out with on a daily basis inparticular a man I was dating at the time he enjoyed drinking daily and I remember thinking like you want a
(04:44):
drink right now like you know, wejust drink yesterday and but to kind of like bond with him and have something in common. I would pick up
drinks and kind of join the partyand then before I knew it, I was the one initiating the drinking and it really become my own habit. I do
think It had a lot to do with theenvironment and the people that I was hanging around combined with me just being naive to how addictive
(05:07):
alcohol is.
Rodney Olsen (05:08):
So after that week where you discovered, yep, I'm really hooked, and I need to do something about it. What was the
first efforts that you tried to sayI need to get clean from this?
Katie Lain (05:20):
Well, my first efforts were like that seven day break, that was kind of my attempt at these different patterns, or just methods,
if you will, of me thinking, okay,maybe if I just take a break from drinking, it will help to reset my habits. And so I was constantly
taking these breaks, whether it waslike, Okay, I'm not going to drink Monday through Thursday, or I'm going to take a 30 day break, or I'm
(05:43):
just going to take two days off, Iwas always trying to have chunks of alcohol free time thinking that that would help to reset my habits, which
it did not. Now I know, there'sactually a well researched phenomenon that proves there's a thing called the alcohol deprivation
effect where you can actually cravealcohol more if you abstain from it once you're addicted. That was one thing I did, I also really tried to
(06:07):
set rules and moderate my drinkingand just try to keep it in controlled levels, like two drinks per day, which was always pretty
much impossible for me to do once Istarted, I did try to go to programs like AA. At the time, I went to only two meetings, because the one in my
town, I was a girl in my mid 20s.And most everyone, there was older men in their 50s and 60s, kind of rough people. And so I was like, Ah,
(06:33):
this isn't for me. But I wasconstantly reading literature and watching talks online and going to different workshops, like personal
development workshops, and thingslike that, before I really had my own faith. This was before I developed faith that I have now. I
was just really seeking lots ofexternal community and support and then also just trying to really be more disciplined with my drinking,
(06:57):
but none of that really worked longterm.
Rodney Olsen (07:00):
I imagine that each time you failed at just using your own self discipline to stop, you would probably be finding comfort in
the alcohol the very thing that youwere trying to quit.
Katie Lain (07:12):
Oh, spot on. Yeah, it was like, whenever I would try to take breaks from alcohol, it was like me having an itch that I was
not allowed to scratch. And it wasjust like, Okay, how long can I go without scratching this itch. And then when I would just feel so
exhausted and not have any willpowerleft, you know, one little thing could just set me off, whether it was a comment my coworker made or
(07:35):
just a stressful day or even a goodday, I would just be like, forget it, I'm gonna go ahead and drink those first few drinks were just
like the relief that I was lookingfor. But then, of course, the next day, there would always be regret and things like that. But it's
really this vicious cycle becausethe alcohol kind of relieves that craving and that desire we have for it temporarily. But then it always
(07:57):
comes back again the next day. Andit's it's so hard to get out of that.
Rodney Olsen (08:00):
I mentioned in the introduction that for some people, alcohol can be a problem, and yet they're able to hide it, and those
around them don't realize how bigthe problem is. And for others, it's just very obvious. Where do you sit on that? Did your family did your
friends know what you were goingthrough the time?
Katie Lain (08:19):
They did, to some extent, you know, there was a period of time where my family, I live in a different state. So it's about a 10
hour drive from my family, severalmembers of my family came down and tried to kind of stage an intervention, if you will, they were
concerned, I was drinking too much.Um, however, I come from a family of heavy drinkers. So I think they were drinking a lot as well at the time,
(08:40):
but maybe I was living a moredestructive life. They were aware of that. And they did try to do an intervention. And it was extremely
unsuccessful. I actually ended upnot talking to them for a year after that, which is another story. But they were aware of it. Then as I got
older, because it did continue oninto my late 20s. And I got help with this treatment right around the age of 30. I did start to become
(09:03):
more sophisticated about it andconceal it more and kind of maybe go out to parties and I would get really drunk sometimes and it'd be
really obvious but other times Iwould be able to hide it and come home and have a bottle of wine that I drink to myself after you know my
husband went to bed. I think somepeople could tell because, you know, they just could see how much alcohol I could hold. But I was you know, a
(09:25):
functioning person. I had a job andthings like that. But I did conceal it for the most part. And maybe in hindsight, I don't think I did a
great job. I think it was moreobvious than I thought but concealed it enough to where you know wasn't wreaking havoc in my personal or
professional life.
Rodney Olsen (09:41):
There are many drugs that we just see someone who's partaking in that and we think that's the wrong thing to do. And
yet we see alcohol as being a verysocially acceptable drug. And you mentioned there how people could see how much alcohol you could hold and
and rather than that being a fly Ithink for some people, that's a badge of honor. It's like, oh, she holds her alcohol well, and people
(10:05):
can see that as a strength ratherthan the weakness that it had become for you. How much does that play into people becoming dependent on
alcohol, the fact that our culture'sactually celebrate drinking, and in fact, to celebrate drinking to access?
Katie Lain (10:20):
Oh, my gosh, that is spot on how you phrase that, and it's so true, especially in my family, you know, I have Irish
roots. And so being able to, youknow, stay up all night and take whiskey shots. It's just like, if you can do that, it's like, wow,
you're super tough. And it'ssomething that's really glorified, in a way and not to mention that, like, during my heavy drinking
(10:41):
period, it was really easy for me tohave friends and associate with people who were also heavy drinkers. And in fact, I really only liked to
hang out with people, if I knew thatthey were going to drink like I did, it was this really confusing place, because I would, you know, sign up
for 5k runs that are like, okay,that's healthy, you're going on a run on a Saturday morning. But it would be the ones that like served
(11:02):
unlimited beer at the end. And so Ido this job, usually hungover, and then I would get drunk at the end of it. Having alcohol really
intertwined into every single aspectof our culture, even the job I had, at the time had a beer cake that they would bring out on Fridays. And
we're always going to happy hours.And so I had this real internal conflict of like, this is one thing that like, socially is so
(11:23):
acceptable, and we use it tocelebrate, you have this very dark side where I was drinking to excess, pretty much seven days a week, hung
over so much shame, guilt, anxiety,driving, mold, drinking, getting pulled over almost getting a DUI, doing things I don't remember,
because I was blacked out and all ofthis dark side of it. So I was like, Do I have a drinking problem? Like it's normal? You know, they're
(11:46):
drinking like that, too. And it'sjust this real, internal conflict that I think a lot of Americans and really people around the world
struggle with. And they're in thatquestioning place and wondering, you know, do I have a drinking problem?
Rodney Olsen (11:59):
I suppose that that is one of the things that exacerbates it, because people can have a drinking problem for so long before
recognizing it as such, because upto a certain point, it's just fitting in with the culture. And as you say, you were drinking. And it
wasn't until you finally challengedyourself on that beach, that you started to realize something is not quite right. So I imagine there are
(12:26):
many people that have a problem withalcohol, but they don't yet see it as such.
Katie Lain (12:31):
Yeah, absolutely. And I have to be honest, like, I think part of the challenge too, for me and what I see with others, and I
know we're going to talk more aboutthe treatment that I use the finally freed me from it. But when I was addicted to alcohol, you know, even
though it was very destructive forme, the thought of never drinking again was terrifying for me. And I would be super gung ho and committed
(12:52):
on you know, day one, or day two, orday three of like, I'm not drinking anymore, but then the craving would come back. And I would imagine this
life without alcohol, I've neverbeen able to touch it again. And that was terrifying for me. And I hear the same for others where the
thought of being abstinent foreverand not being able to drink alcohol, again, is scary. So I think, for me, it kind of kept me stuck where I was
(13:12):
for a long time, because I thoughtthat the only option available was total and complete abstinence, like going to Alcoholics Anonymous. And I
think that's a great program. My dadis over 30 years sober because of it. But I knew it wasn't for me. And I'm what I'm learning is that it's
not for a lot of other people aswell, because there's a lot of people, especially if you put them in maybe a gray area drinker
(13:33):
category where they're functioningin life, but they're drinking a bottle of wine every night. Those are kind of people that perhaps want
to at least start by, okay, I wantto cut back I want to have two glasses of wine a couple of nights a week. And not more than that. But
it's really hard to do that once youare in the place of alcohol use disorder. It's hard to kind of reverse back until I learned about
(13:53):
this treatment that I us it allowedme to do that.
Rodney Olsen (13:55):
And even before you found that treatment, which as you say we certainly want to discuss, you say that you found faith. Tell
me about that journey for you.
Katie Lain (14:05):
I actually came to the faith after the treatment after I had actually gone through it and gotten over my alcohol addiction.
This treatment allowed me to kind ofstart by reducing my drinking and I was drinking moderately for about the course of one year and ended up
going alcohol free completelythrough this treatment sort of by accident because I just got to a place of really being uninterested
(14:26):
in alcohol which is so funny becauseit was like just impossible for me to even go a couple of days without drinking let alone now it's been
about five years after getting soberI actually for the first time in my life like started to think about is there a God before that I was very
much into like the New Age beliefsystem if you will, or I kind of believed I was God and I was going to reincarnate and just like out
(14:50):
there stuff that I believe for along time. And I remember just for like six months I considered myself spiritual and for six months I kept
getting this thought if you're soSpiritual, you should read a Bible like that's the most spiritual book that exists. And I kept delaying it
or ignoring it and not buying aBible. One day I actually kind of felt frustrated because I had been seeing some scriptures posted on my
(15:12):
Facebook from some Christian friendsof mine and just seeing all these like scriptures and people talking about Jesus. And I was like, Ah, why
are all these people so obsessedwith Jesus? Like, I remember praying one day and be like Jesus, if you're the who, who Bible says you are
like, just show me and I was kind ofpraying from this place of like, you know, wanting to prove everyone else wrong in a way, but I was sincere in
(15:34):
my prayer. And it was really thefirst time I had ever prayed because in the new age, I really believed in just manifestation and like, it's
not about a humble heart of prayer.It's more about like, what can I attract in my life. So I prayed, and then within like, 24 hours, it's as
if like, the scales were lifted frommy eyes. And I could see that what I'd been doing with my life, like with Tarot cards, and psychics and
(15:58):
new agey type practices, thosethings were not of God. And he just showed me so clearly, that's when I fell on my face and was just weeping
and really started to follow Jesus.And that was about three and a half years ago now. And I've just been a devoted follower ever since.
Rodney Olsen (16:14):
Tell me about the treatment that you discovered. Because, as you say, you tried at least for a couple of meetings to go
to AA. And there are various otherprograms that are available that as you suggest, work for some people, but it's not for everyone. But you
found something that has been veryeffective for you tell me about that.
Katie Lain (16:34):
The treatment that I use, and that was the thing that finally actually worked for me is actually a decade's old science
based treatment that's beenresearched since the 90s. With a clinically proven 78% success rate, that actually helps the alcohol
addiction be unlearned,neurologically what the researcher his name was Dr. David Sinclair, what he discovered in his research
(17:00):
that was done first on rats, andthen in humans, the research was done in Finland, was that alcohol addiction is actually a learned
behavior. People aren't bornalcoholics, it's something that is essentially developed over time with repeated drinking. And some people
have genetics, like I did, wheremaybe I was more sensitive to developing an alcohol addiction. But his research showed that really, it
(17:21):
can happen to anyone, with enoughrepeated drinking, because alcohol is rewarding for the brain. And so with this treatment, there's
actually a medicine that's availablein most parts of the world. It's a generic medicine, it's non addictive, it's very cheap. It's
called naltrexone. And this medicineis taken one hour before drinking. So that's something that was so unique about this treatment is that
(17:45):
it didn't require me to abstain fromdrinking, the whole goal was to start it while it was still drinking, in order to get on the
path to reduction of alcohol. And soI started it. And it was really miraculous, honestly, like, within the first week on the treatment, I
had an alcohol free day, which wasreally difficult for me to do. Generally, I was drinking seven days a week. And it wasn't that hard, I
(18:08):
just didn't really feel likedrinking continued on the treatment. I did it for a year. And over that year, my drinking just continued to
reduce more and more and more andgot to a point where, you know, I was drinking one or two glasses of wine once or twice a month, that was
all I wanted to drink. And Imaintain that level for a few months, I kind of went alcohol free by accident where after a little
(18:30):
over a year on the treatment, I justreally was so uninterested in alcohol and had no desire for drinking that I decided, okay, I
guess I'm not going to drinkanymore. And that was about five years ago now. And I think one of the greatest things about this
protocol for me is that the resultswere permanent, like the the medicine is only taken one hour before drinking. And so the longer I
(18:51):
was using it, I was taking themedicine and drinking maybe once or twice a month. And then now it's been over five years, and I don't
have any cravings for alcohol, Idon't have any triggers or desire for alcohol, people can be drinking the best champagne around me and I
have no emotion or no desire to haveit, I feel. And this is what the researcher said, who discovered this treatment, it's like your brain gets
(19:13):
restored back to the state it was inbefore the addiction ever set in place. So I feel as if like the addiction was reversed from my
brain, essentially. And so it's anincredibly powerful science based protocol that's been around for decades. Unfortunately, there's a
really little awareness about it.And there's a few reasons for that. But since it freed me from it, I've really been inspired just to
(19:35):
advocate and tell others about it.
Rodney Olsen (19:38):
One of the criticisms of using Naltrexone is that you have to be very vigilant in using the tablet and the owl before you start
drinking. And people would say,Well, someone who has an alcohol addiction, they're not going to be doing that. And yet what you're
saying is it's not just the takingthe tablet, but there's the support that goes along with that helps those people who are facing an
(20:03):
addiction to alcohol.
Katie Lain (20:04):
There's actually a book that really dives into all of the research behind this treatments written by a man named Dr. Roy
Eskapa. But in the book just to kindof address your first question, because that is a question I get a lot is like, yeah, right, and
alcoholics not going to take a pillbefore drinking. But in his research, it showed that actually, about 85% of the people complied
with taking the medicine, in myexperience, personally with it. And then as a coach as well, I would say the majority of people, it's a non
(20:31):
issue for them, because so manypeople start this treatment just wanting to put this issue behind them. What we often say to people is
that the protocol on the medicine ishalf the equation like I genuinely tribute my sobriety today, and being able to become a quote unquote,
normal drinker to this medicationlike I tried for years before and nothing worked, my drinking just got worse. There's also a behavioral
(20:55):
component to it, where peopleperhaps have been relying on alcohol to cope for years or decades, or, like me, it was my habit for nearly
10 years, every night I was I wasdrinking in the evenings. And that's a very ingrained habit. Even with the medicine, I had to find other
ways to spend my time and reallyfind other healthier coping tools. So that's where the other side of the treatment comes in. And also to
(21:18):
help with compliance andencouragement for that as well, for people to just stick with it. It's not an overnight fix, many people
will see pretty significant changesin the first month. But for most of us, it takes several months, maybe even longer to kind of gradually
unlearn the patterns of alcohol usedisorder and, and change our habits and behaviors around it as well.
Rodney Olsen (21:38):
And as you say, it has a 78% success rate, which of course means that there are some people who are not going to get clean by using
this treatment. And some would usethat as a criticism, and yet 78%. That's a fairly high percentage. And I guess that's where you would say,
hey, look, there are other methodsthat people can try if this one is not for them. But this one is showing a very high success rate. So
(22:07):
it's a matter of finding what isgoing to work for the person. And this is one of those that has a very high probability of working.
Katie Lain (22:14):
Yeah, I mean, especially in the you know, kind of existing treatment system of what's been done over the last century or so it's
actually estimated to have a reallyhigh failure rate or relapse rate. There was one study I was reading where it said that they recognize
that alcoholism is a chronicrelapsing condition where 80% or more of people relapse within six months of leaving treatment. So it's
(22:36):
interesting that the success rate is80%. And then the relapse rate and traditional treatment is around 80%. With the Sinclair method, and
naltrexone, it's not going to workfor everyone. And, again, kind of referencing the book that dives into all the research the cure for
alcoholism, it talks about, youknow, the 22% that it doesn't work for, or that it didn't work for and the trials, a percentage of those
(22:57):
were actually people who weren'tcompliant. So back to your original kind of point about people not taking the medicine. So partially,
it's not working, because peopleperhaps aren't following the protocol. There's a lot of really exciting advances being done with
science and medicine with regards totreating alcohol addiction. And there's other medications that are really showing a lot of promise and
(23:18):
other kinds of alternativetreatments, which I can't personally speak to, but I just know that there's other modalities out there.
So I would say if someone'sstruggling and they you know, want to try naltrexone, I think it's a really powerful treatment, it's got
so much research behind it, ifyou're interested in the science, you can just look into some of these papers on naltrexone for alcohol,
but to also consider othertreatments like abstinence and just white knuckling it isn't isn't the only option, if that's something
(23:43):
that's not working for somebody.
Rodney Olsen (23:45):
The suggestion there is really coming back to that whole point that the medication on its own won't help you need to be a part of
a group that is actually supportingyou through this and helping you through this. And I know that that's really what you're advocating,
Katie Lain (23:59):
it's so important. I do believe too, because alcohol use disorder is such an isolating condition. And sometimes when we
even start on the medicationtreatment protocol, there's a lot to unpack, and a lot to uncover. And I think for some people, if they're
struggling with this and their lovedones, even if they're well intended, if they don't understand alcohol use disorder and what it's like to kind
(24:20):
of cope with it and to reallyovercome it through a treatment that seems illogical because you're still drinking, it can be really hard to
kind of see progress. And so what Ihear all of the time from people is just how valuable it is to connect with others who are in the middle of
it are going through it or have gonethrough it. And they can provide that source of encouragement and support and also just specific
(24:41):
instruction on what to expect thedifferent phases of the method how to change habits and and find different coping tools as well. So I
definitely encourage someone ifthey're considering medicine that recognize it's kind of half the half the equation, if you will, in that
the support side and really viewingit as a treatment protocols. The other half
Rodney Olsen (25:00):
You mentioned coming to faith sometime after going through the treatment. And I know that you've found since that alcohol
is something that doesn'tdiscriminate, and that there are many Christians, people who truly love the Lord who struggling with
alcohol, and I imagine for them,there's even a greater level of shame. Are you able to help some of these people who are following Jesus
(25:26):
and yet still have this issue withalcohol?
Katie Lain (25:30):
Yes, we have an online program that supports people through the treatment. And we have a Christian component inside of it,
where we have like a dedicated groupand live group support and Christian content to to support those people. And of course, we have non believers
in our program as well. So it'soptional. But yeah, it's really interesting how many people have said that this is an answer to
(25:52):
prayer, that they've tried so manyother things, and they feel like God has led them to this treatment, which I think that's something I
haven't just heard that once I hearit on maybe at least a monthly basis from people. And so I think it's really powerful to hear that
testimony. And also, I've heard fromChristians who some of them, the kind of consistent feedback I've heard is that they struggle to go to
programs like AAA for the fact thatwhat I've heard is that, you know, anything can be your God there. And so if they're sitting next to
(26:17):
someone who's worshiping the chairin front of them, they're like, well, that's not really aligned with my faith in the Christian God. So
that is a challenge. And then also,I think, just again, the more feedback I've gotten, and I don't think it's not to say anything bad
about pastors at all, I think, whenyou don't know what it's like to go through an alcohol addiction, you don't really know how to handle it.
Like, I wouldn't know how to helpsomeone with an opiate addiction. I just I don't know about that. I didn't walk that path myself
(26:42):
personally. But alcohol, I know itvery intimately. And so when people would turn to their pastors for help, and the pastor's advice is to
pray or just quit drinking, and Ibelieve God can supernaturally heal and remove that from people, you sovereign. And so why he doesn't
want some I have no idea. But Ithink sometimes people, even when they turn to their church or their pastor, they're not getting the
(27:03):
adequate support for it. Or theymight feel like they're getting judged or ridiculed. That's like an area where I really have a heart to
serve people that, you know, justletting the love of God transform them and let the Holy Spirit do the changing within them. But also, you
know, using this evidence basedtreatment alongside,
Rodney Olsen (27:21):
I know that the treatment will look different in different parts of the world, but it is widely available in many
countries around the world. So Isuppose that the first step for many people, if they're saying, this is something that I need to know more
about is to get in touch with you tojump onto your website and learn about it and then find a way to see that happen wherever they are in the
(27:45):
world. If that's the case forsomeone, and they wanting to get in touch with you or to find out even more about it, maybe for a loved
one, what's the best place to findyou?
Katie Lain (27:55):
On our website, it's just thrive, alcohol recovery.com. And our contact information is on there. We have a lot of just general
information about the treatmentprotocol and about our program. We have a lot of free resources, like a video course talking about what is
the method and things to know andmistakes people make. So there's a lot of resources people can look into for free. And then if they want
(28:17):
to contact us, you know, at leastpoint them in the right direction. Of course, if they're ready to get started, our program is available to
support as well.
Rodney Olsen (28:25):
Katie, it has been a delight to speak to you to hear of your story of being able to get rid of that alcohol addiction that
you've had that alcohol use disorderthat so controlled your life, which now has no place in it. And your opportunity to share that with many
other people and see a lot of otherpeople we freed from it. I want to thank you for sharing that story. And thank you for your time on
(28:50):
Bleeding Daylight.
Katie Lain (28:51):
Thank you so much for having me, Rodney. Great conversation.
Emily Olsen (28:55):
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode
with others. For further details andmore episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net
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