December 14, 2025 • 24 mins
Kim Harms never expected to hear the word "cancer" twice. After beating breast cancer with only a 5-6% chance of recurrence, she was devastated when it returned seven years later, this time more advanced and requiring intensive chemotherapy. Kim's story isn't just about surviving cancer; it's about discovering God's presence in the darkest valleys. During her second battle, whilst enduring 16 rounds of chemotherapy, her son Owen began mysteriously losing weight and strength, ultimately being diagnosed with ulcerative colitis after months of frightening uncertainty.
Through these overlapping crises, Kim found her calling. She's written two books, Life Reconstructed and Carried Through Cancer, and co-ordinates a ministry that sends free mastectomy pillows worldwide. Her raw honesty about crying on her floor, making promises to God, watching friends fade away, and feeling the isolation of cancer will resonate with anyone facing overwhelming circumstances. Kim's story reminds us that we're not promised smooth sailing, but we are promised God's presence, and that makes all the difference. (Want to be a guest on Bleeding Daylight? Send Rodney Olsen a message on PodMatch, here.)
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Bleeding Daylight is a Christian podcast of hope and transformation hosted by Rodney Olsen, featuring inspiring Christian testimonies and stories of faith in action.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Welcome.
I'm absolutely delighted you've joined me for today's episode.
There are hundreds more uplifting episodes ready for you right now at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:31):
I'd love for you to share Bleeding Daylight with friends so they can be inspired as well.
How do you deal with a second diagnosis that you were assured was extremely unlikely?
What do you do when in the midst of your own intensive medical treatment, a family member begins suffering from a condition that defies diagnosis?
(00:56):
Today's guest has written about faith while managing her own health and the health of a loved one.
I'm so glad to have Kim Harms with me today.
Kim's journey through two breast cancer battles has been marked by incredible resilience and an unshakable faith that has carried her through some of life's darkest valleys.
(01:23):
She's navigated countless treatments, written two powerful books about her experiences, and all while facing the heart-wrenching challenge of watching her son battle a serious illness during her own chemotherapy.
Kim's story isn't just about surviving, it's about learning to thrive when suffering feels endless, and about finding God's presence in the midst of overwhelming circumstances.
(01:47):
Kim, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to talk to you today.
It occurs to me that you're currently immersed in this very weighty topic of cancer, yet 10 years or so back, it probably wasn't something that often crossed your mind.
When was it that you first noticed that something wasn't quite right?
(02:08):
What were the first warning signs for you?
Well, for me, it was discovering a lump in my breast.
I hadn't had my first mammogram.
Those are planned when you hit age 40, and I hadn't hit that yet.
I decided something wasn't right, so I went to see my doctor, and that just led to mammogram, and ultrasound, and biopsy, and ultimately got diagnosed with cancer one month after I turned 40.
(02:33):
And that was getting close to 10 years ago.
So yeah, it's been a wild ride since then.
And I've heard people saying that as soon as they hear that word cancer, there's just a numbness that descends, and it's hard to really take anything else in.
What was your experience of that moment when the doctor said, we found something, and it is cancer?
Yes, I remember it was an afternoon.
(02:56):
My husband had just gotten home from work, and I got a call from my doctor.
And a local doctor, she's been our family practitioner for a long time, and it was after hours for her.
But she said it crossed her desk as she was getting ready to leave to go home, and she's like, if you didn't answer the phone, I was going to drive to your house.
And so she told me I had cancer, and I didn't really hear much after that.
(03:17):
I just remember I got off the phone, and Corey is standing there, and I just kind of melted.
And I just repeated over and over, I don't want to have cancer.
I don't want to have cancer.
I don't want to have cancer.
That was the first day.
Thankfully, family and friends had known that having some testing done, but we weren't supposed to find out the results for another at least 24 hours, which ended up being really good because it gave Corey and I a day to just let that settle ourselves.
(03:44):
So we didn't tell anybody until they were expecting to have the news.
And in hindsight, that was really good for us to be able to wrap our heads around it a little bit before we had to start sharing that with other people.
How soon after that did the treatment begin?
Did the doctor say we need to do something right away?
Or did it take a while to schedule those sorts of things?
It took a little while.
(04:04):
The first time I was diagnosed with cancer, I was stage one.
So it's caught pretty early.
And my treatment was surgeries, and then hormone therapy.
And actually, after I was diagnosed, it was a month until I had my first surgery to remove the tumor.
It went slower than I would have wanted it to.
(04:24):
So during that 30 days, I'm just thinking, I just want this cancer out of me.
I just want this cancer out of me.
It was hard.
It was hard to be patient.
But that was the first time.
The second time was different, because it was a little more progressed.
And so the treatments came faster, and it was more concerning the second time around.
How was that feeling when you thought, we've beaten this thing called cancer?
(04:46):
And then you're told, no, it's back, there's more to be done.
Yeah, you're just not expecting it.
I know once you have cancer, you're a little bit higher risk to have it come back.
But they have so many tests and things now that can be done, tests done on your tumors.
And I actually had some testing done after my first diagnosis, and I had about a five or 6% chance of cancer coming back.
(05:10):
And so that's why they didn't recommend any further treatment.
They're like, you're very low risk for it to come back.
And I was on a hormone blocking medication that I was supposed to be on for 10 years, that is supposed to keep your cancer from coming back.
But at year seven, mine decided to come back anyway.
I again found a lump myself in my armpit, and then decided, okay, I need to go see my oncologist and have this looked at.
(05:35):
Finding out that I had cancer again, I mean, it was hard.
Of course, you don't want to get it again.
It was a different kind of scary, because I'd really stayed in the cancer world since my first diagnosis, even though I'd been cancer free, I'd ministered to a lot of women who are going through that and trying to help them through that.
And so I'd never really left the cancer world.
So it wasn't a shock in that way.
(05:57):
But it was scary, because I knew that it was further advanced.
When I was first diagnosed, they didn't know how far advanced it was.
And I had in my mind, my previous oncologist saying to me, a lot of times when breast cancer comes back, it comes back stage four.
I didn't know what stage it was.
But in my mind, I'm like, is it stage four?
Am I going to die?
(06:18):
I don't want to die.
I'm not ready to die.
And so you have all of these feelings and emotions.
I actually had one morning that I was just crying on my floor, and I was just praying to God.
And I know that you're not necessarily supposed to make deals with God.
But I remember praying, Lord, I'll do the chemo if I need to do chemo.
I'll do whatever treatment.
(06:38):
I will walk through those things.
Just please let me live.
And if you let me live, I will not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ.
Which is something I would say that I haven't ever been ashamed of the gospel of Christ, but I haven't been as vocal about it.
God graciously let me get through this treatment, which was a lot harder the second time around.
I'm reminded of that often when I'm hit with questions about my faith or how you walk through cancer.
(07:03):
I'm reminded, okay, give the glory to God for this.
That comes back to my mind a lot, that morning that I was just crying and praying.
You mentioned that during this time, you were ministering to others who were going through cancer.
And I see that as a very common theme of those people who are able to go through this journey somewhat well, are those who are giving back to others, those who, even though they're going through something momentous for themselves, are able to focus on others.
(07:34):
What do you think it was in you that caused you to think outside yourself during that very difficult time?
I think part of that is knowing Christ and knowing that we're called to serve others.
Having that experience and after getting through it, having the experience and knowing that I was getting further away from the scary parts, it was like, I have some knowledge that can help other women.
(07:59):
Why would I not use that?
God allows us to go through hard things so that we can comfort others in those things.
I wanted to do that.
That's kind of why I stayed in that cancer world.
And after my first diagnosis, my mom and two of her friends, all three had daughters diagnosed with cancer the same year.
(08:21):
They started this ministry of making, they're called mastectomy pillows, and they go in your armpit for after breast surgeries.
They send them all over the U.S. They've sent them to other countries as well for free.
That ministry goes through my website.
They make all the pillows, and I'm kind of the go-between.
But that has also helped me just stay in that world because we're regularly sending these to people.
(08:43):
And then I always send them a message and say, hey, if you want to speak to someone who's been through it, here's my email.
Reach out to me and we'll chat.
That's one of the ways I just stayed in that cancer world.
We're certainly not told in Scripture that it's going to be an easy ride, but were there any times that you started to think, hey, this isn't right, I'm doing the right thing, and had to come back to that point of, hey, the Scripture doesn't promise us this easy ride that we so often think we should have?
(09:13):
2 Yes, for sure.
I remind myself of that regularly.
Like you said, we're not promised easy, and if you read the Scripture, the people who followed Christ, it's hard to think of somebody who maybe had a smooth sailing life.
So, I think that we should expect to have hardship.
We live in a broken and fallen world, and sometimes it feels unfair to me.
(09:33):
I watch friends of mine or other people and it's like, oh, you guys are doing great.
You guys have no issues.
Your health is fine.
Your family's fine.
And so, if you start looking at other people and comparing, that's when sometimes I will have a pity party for myself.
But I know the truth.
I know that I'm not promised health.
I'm not promised life.
I know where I'm going when this life is over.
(09:54):
So, that gives me comfort as well.
I would like to stay here as long as possible and watch my kids grow up and grow old with my husband.
But ultimately, I know I'm not promised smooth sailing, and neither is anyone else.
So, when we're going through the hard things, it's the challenge of, how do I do this?
How do I do this well, and how do I focus on the important things here?
(10:16):
And how do I still have joy?
During that second cancer battle, of course, you found that your son was going through his own health issues, and it was very difficult to pin down exactly what was going on.
Tell me some of that story.
Yes.
It was in the middle of chemotherapy.
So, I went through 16 rounds of chemotherapy.
(10:38):
It started in about May.
Our middle son, Owen, started getting sick.
We thought it was a virus, and we went to the doctor.
She thought it was probably viral, and he just wasn't getting better.
Ultimately, he just kept losing weight.
His digestive system wasn't working right.
He went from a very strong, muscular, kind of weightlifting guy up close to 200 pounds, and at his lowest, he was about 155, I think.
(11:05):
It just took such a long time to figure out what was wrong with him, and it was very scary watching my son just fade away in front of me.
He had moved out of the house.
He was 20 at the time, but it took a long time.
First, you have to go to a regular doctor, and then you need to get sent to a specialist.
He had some symptoms that didn't seem to fit what he ultimately was diagnosed with, so that made it take even longer.
(11:29):
I felt like I just had to really be an advocate for him, saying, this is happening.
He is not okay.
It took a few months, and then he was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, which is an autoimmune disease.
It can be challenging to treat.
There's lots of different medications and treatments for it, but different things work for different people.
It was really a couple years of a roller coaster with him until we got him on a medication that is now working really well.
(11:55):
He's actually in EMT school right now.
He's healthy.
He's doing great, and it's so good to see, but to watch that as I was going through chemo, I was like, I will go through double my treatments if my son would just be healthy.
I can do this myself.
I can't watch my son do it.
It was very hard, very hard to watch him go through.
(12:16):
And when you compare the two issues, you have been diagnosed, and at least you know, this is the treatment that I require.
It must have been incredibly difficult for you not being able to get a diagnosis, to know that things are continuing to be difficult for your son as you're seeing him fade away in front of your eyes, but not have a solution or even a diagnosis.
(12:41):
Yes, that was one of the hardest things.
You just want to know what it is so you can start treating it so he can get better.
It was just months and months of trying this thing and doing that thing and him just getting sicker.
And we ended up switching doctors halfway through it because I felt like I was speaking to a brick wall.
Like, he's not getting better.
He's not getting better.
(13:01):
And so the not knowing is very hard.
You know, the diagnosis is not fun either because it's autoimmune.
It's something he's going to need to learn to deal with for the rest of his life.
But yes, just that not knowing, especially as I was going through treatment.
Thankfully, chemo, as far as side effects go, went better for me than for a lot of people.
There's a lot of days I didn't feel good and I have no hair and I have no energy.
(13:26):
So just watching him and going through that, those things together, it felt like too much.
And there were probably points in that period of time that I was like, Lord, why?
Why do we have to do so much?
But I just would have to remind myself, he knows.
He knows Owen and he loves Owen.
But it wasn't easy.
It wasn't easy at all.
(13:47):
You took your background as a writer and used that to help others as well.
Your first book was Life Reconstructed.
Tell me a little about that book.
Yeah, that came out of my first diagnosis and it is a book.
It's got a pretty targeted audience of women who have been diagnosed with breast cancer and are facing mastectomy and breast reconstruction.
(14:11):
And so it's kind of a guidebook for women going through that.
I go through medical information, there's different types of surgeries.
So it's chapters on the medical, there's chapters on the psychological things that you go through, relational things.
How do I talk to my children about this?
How do I rate late to my spouse through this diagnosis?
(14:31):
And spiritually, how is that affecting me?
And so just a lot of chapters on different aspects of what you go through during that.
And my story is woven throughout it.
But I interviewed a lot of different women and spouses as well, who walked that road and had their perspective in there.
And so that first book, it's really meant when someone's diagnosed and they're facing that, as here is what you might expect, and maybe this can help you make decisions and help you understand what you're feeling, those emotions, and what your mind is doing.
(15:03):
So that was my first book, and it actually was published by a general market publisher.
So that is not a Christian book, though my story, my faith story through that is in there, sprinkled throughout, because I can't tell my story without telling what God has done.
That first book, a much different book than my second book, but I'm really thankful I had the opportunity to write that.
(15:23):
And it really actually helped me process through a lot of my emotions and was therapeutic to write that book.
And I know that you formed a close friendship with a doctor that you were checking with, are all these medical things I'm saying correct?
Tell me about that friendship.
It's very sweet friendship.
When I had my manuscript ready to go, I wanted to have a medical professional who would look at it and make sure all the technical things I had in there were correct, and that I'd written it well, written it right.
(15:54):
And so I cold called this office at the Katzmann Breast Center in Des Moines, and there is a breast surgeon there named Dr. Beck, who is well loved in Central Iowa.
I asked if she would be willing to read through the manuscript and just make sure I was on target and just kind of glance through it with me.
And she said, you know, let's meet for coffee and let's talk about this.
(16:16):
And so we did, we met for coffee.
And she said, you know, I would like to read this chapter by chapter and go through this with you.
And that was fantastic.
She made sure all of the medical information was right.
There's a couple of sections in there that are added because of her.
She said, I think you should talk a little bit about this.
And so she was really great with me in writing that book.
And she is also a follower of Jesus.
(16:38):
And so we formed this friendship that remained over the next several years.
So when I found the lump in my armpit, seven years after my first diagnosis, my first call was to my oncologist.
But my second call was to Dr. Beck.
She got me quickly in for an ultrasound and biopsy and scheduled my surgery.
And she's actually the one who did my surgery to remove the tumor.
(17:02):
And she did my surgery to install the port in my chest, which is where my chemo would go.
I'm getting wheeled into surgery by my friend.
And she's like the last person I see as I'm drifting off to sleep.
And so it's just a beautiful story of what God did.
Like when I met her the first time, I had no idea that she would become so important to me on the medical side of things.
(17:25):
I didn't think I would ever need her for that.
I just thought she'd be my friend.
And so that is just a really cool story that came out of that.
I'm sure that as you've gone through this journey, you've found the value in needing to have the right people in your corner, both from a faith perspective, those people surrounding you, but also from a medical perspective.
(17:45):
How important is it that if we're going through something like this, whether it is cancer or any other medical diagnosis, that we find the right people to have in our corner in those different areas?
It's very important.
My oncologist, I like her a lot.
And then Dr. Beck was great.
And most of the people that I've had with me medically and for cancer have been great.
(18:08):
I think of my son, and halfway through trying to figure out what was wrong with him, we really had to switch to a different doctor.
And then we're very happy with the next one or the second one that we ended up with.
It is important.
I guess after my first diagnosis, I'd have a surgeon and a plastic surgeon.
And I had an appointment with a plastic surgeon who, and that appointment was really pretty horrible.
(18:30):
I remember going home and I just cried on the way home.
And when we got there, I called a friend of mine and she's like, you need a different surgeon.
Call and get a different surgeon.
And I did.
And that was so good for me to do because I had to have that surgeon for multiple surgeries.
I was seeing him a lot.
And so it's really important to have a medical professional that you feel like hears you, you feel like is taking good care of you.
(18:50):
Now, sometimes you don't have a lot of choice.
I know sometimes you don't have choice in the matter.
But if you do, it's very important to advocate for yourself.
Also to just have people, friends in your corner who love you, who understand you.
When you're diagnosed with cancer, it's interesting because you kind of find the people who are your people and are going to be the ones that are in this with you.
(19:12):
And some of those friends kind of fade away because cancer makes people uncomfortable.
And so finding that group of people is important.
And then I'm grateful to have a really supportive husband and children who are pretty amazing.
And so being able to walk through that with a lot of people who loved me and supported me is great.
Not everybody has that.
But man, if you can, if you can find those people, it really makes it easier to go through.
(19:35):
Tell me about that book, Carried Through Cancer, and tell me about the story of that.
Carried Through Cancer is much different than my first book.
It's a devotional for women going through cancer, not just breast cancer, and for caregivers as well.
It's 70 stories.
10 of those are my own personal stories of God meeting me in specific places.
(19:57):
The story I told you about Dr. Beck is actually a story in there of my friend Susan.
50 stories are stories written based on interviews with women who have gone through cancer or who are still fighting cancer.
10 stories in the book are from interviews I did with caregivers.
Each story in the book is a real story from me talking to a real person about where a real God met them in a very hard place.
(20:23):
And I wanted to write these to be an encouragement to women who are going through cancer to maybe look at their experiences and be able to see where God is working in their cancer and to be able to seek Him.
I think it's so helpful to read things that are encouraging.
Wow, this person went through this really hard thing, but look what God did.
(20:45):
It was an encouraging thing to me as I went through it.
And so that's what I wanted this to be is an encouragement for others.
And the stories are pretty short.
They're 500 to 600 words.
If you're going through treatment, you can just open it really anywhere.
You can read a story for that day.
There's a prayer with it and kind of a meditation section or reflection to maybe think some more on what is talked about.
(21:07):
That was my hope in that book is to write something that will give other people hope when they're walking through cancer.
I know that although cancer is very prevalent in our society, it's often something that is swept under the rug that we don't talk about.
And yet here's this book that shares stories of others who have gone through exactly that journey.
(21:29):
That must be incredibly empowering for people who are going through cancer, feeling like they're all alone to realize there have been others gone through this before and God has met them in that time.
Yeah, it can be very isolating.
You can feel very alone.
There are a lot of people, cancer, like you said, it's pretty prevalent.
But when you're diagnosed, you don't necessarily know somebody else who's going through it.
(21:53):
So yeah, to be able to read and see so many people who have walked a similar road and who have come through on the other side, or maybe they're still in treatment, but they are focusing on the positive and looking for God in that.
I think that's a encouraging thing.
It's hard.
It can be a very lonely place, and it's a place you don't want to be alone.
(22:13):
You want to have support and people who understand what you're going through.
If you were speaking to someone right now who is going through a cancer battle, and yet they don't yet know the Lord, what would your encouragement to them be?
My encouragement would be to seek Him.
(22:34):
It's hard.
It's so hard to go through cancer.
I often think about what would that be like to go through if I didn't have the hope that I have in my faith.
I would encourage you just to pray, just to call out to God.
Maybe you don't know if it's true.
You don't know if scripture and what it says is true.
Well, ask God to show you.
(22:55):
Ask Him if He's real.
Ask Him to show up in a certain way for you.
Our prayers don't come back void.
So if you're seeking and looking for that hope, I don't think it will come back empty.
I would say to just open yourself up to that.
I have found that when people are diagnosed with cancer or going through very hard things is a time when they're maybe open to spiritual things in a way that we're not when life is going our way or going fine.
(23:24):
So this might be the time that God is going to show Himself to you because you're open to it.
I would say seek Him and seek out other people who are going through this who are faith-filled people to just ask them, what is it?
What is it that you have that I don't?
Pete I know that your website has connections for people to find your books, but also your blog so that you're writing in an ongoing way.
(23:51):
And I do have links to your website in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily.
I want to thank you for sharing your story and especially, Kim, thank you for your time today on Bleeding Daylight.
Kim Thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate you just giving me the opportunity to talk to you about what I've been through and what God has taught me.
(24:14):
I appreciate this time.
bleedingdaylight.net
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Welcome.
I'm absolutely delighted you've joined me for today's episode.
There are hundreds more uplifting episodes ready for you right now at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:31):
I'd love for you to share Bleeding Daylight with friends so they can be inspired as well.
How do you deal with a second diagnosis that you were assured was extremely unlikely?
What do you do when in the midst of your own intensive medical treatment, a family member begins suffering from a condition that defies diagnosis?
(00:56):
Today's guest has written about faith while managing her own health and the health of a loved one.
I'm so glad to have Kim Harms with me today.
Kim's journey through two breast cancer battles has been marked by incredible resilience and an unshakable faith that has carried her through some of life's darkest valleys.
(01:23):
She's navigated countless treatments, written two powerful books about her experiences, and all while facing the heart-wrenching challenge of watching her son battle a serious illness during her own chemotherapy.
Kim's story isn't just about surviving, it's about learning to thrive when suffering feels endless, and about finding God's presence in the midst of overwhelming circumstances.
(01:47):
Kim, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to talk to you today.
It occurs to me that you're currently immersed in this very weighty topic of cancer, yet 10 years or so back, it probably wasn't something that often crossed your mind.
When was it that you first noticed that something wasn't quite right?
(02:08):
What were the first warning signs for you?
Well, for me, it was discovering a lump in my breast.
I hadn't had my first mammogram.
Those are planned when you hit age 40, and I hadn't hit that yet.
I decided something wasn't right, so I went to see my doctor, and that just led to mammogram, and ultrasound, and biopsy, and ultimately got diagnosed with cancer one month after I turned 40.
(02:33):
And that was getting close to 10 years ago.
So yeah, it's been a wild ride since then.
And I've heard people saying that as soon as they hear that word cancer, there's just a numbness that descends, and it's hard to really take anything else in.
What was your experience of that moment when the doctor said, we found something, and it is cancer?
Yes, I remember it was an afternoon.
(02:56):
My husband had just gotten home from work, and I got a call from my doctor.
And a local doctor, she's been our family practitioner for a long time, and it was after hours for her.
But she said it crossed her desk as she was getting ready to leave to go home, and she's like, if you didn't answer the phone, I was going to drive to your house.
And so she told me I had cancer, and I didn't really hear much after that.
(03:17):
I just remember I got off the phone, and Corey is standing there, and I just kind of melted.
And I just repeated over and over, I don't want to have cancer.
I don't want to have cancer.
I don't want to have cancer.
That was the first day.
Thankfully, family and friends had known that having some testing done, but we weren't supposed to find out the results for another at least 24 hours, which ended up being really good because it gave Corey and I a day to just let that settle ourselves.
(03:44):
So we didn't tell anybody until they were expecting to have the news.
And in hindsight, that was really good for us to be able to wrap our heads around it a little bit before we had to start sharing that with other people.
How soon after that did the treatment begin?
Did the doctor say we need to do something right away?
Or did it take a while to schedule those sorts of things?
It took a little while.
(04:04):
The first time I was diagnosed with cancer, I was stage one.
So it's caught pretty early.
And my treatment was surgeries, and then hormone therapy.
And actually, after I was diagnosed, it was a month until I had my first surgery to remove the tumor.
It went slower than I would have wanted it to.
(04:24):
So during that 30 days, I'm just thinking, I just want this cancer out of me.
I just want this cancer out of me.
It was hard.
It was hard to be patient.
But that was the first time.
The second time was different, because it was a little more progressed.
And so the treatments came faster, and it was more concerning the second time around.
How was that feeling when you thought, we've beaten this thing called cancer?
(04:46):
And then you're told, no, it's back, there's more to be done.
Yeah, you're just not expecting it.
I know once you have cancer, you're a little bit higher risk to have it come back.
But they have so many tests and things now that can be done, tests done on your tumors.
And I actually had some testing done after my first diagnosis, and I had about a five or 6% chance of cancer coming back.
(05:10):
And so that's why they didn't recommend any further treatment.
They're like, you're very low risk for it to come back.
And I was on a hormone blocking medication that I was supposed to be on for 10 years, that is supposed to keep your cancer from coming back.
But at year seven, mine decided to come back anyway.
I again found a lump myself in my armpit, and then decided, okay, I need to go see my oncologist and have this looked at.
(05:35):
Finding out that I had cancer again, I mean, it was hard.
Of course, you don't want to get it again.
It was a different kind of scary, because I'd really stayed in the cancer world since my first diagnosis, even though I'd been cancer free, I'd ministered to a lot of women who are going through that and trying to help them through that.
And so I'd never really left the cancer world.
So it wasn't a shock in that way.
(05:57):
But it was scary, because I knew that it was further advanced.
When I was first diagnosed, they didn't know how far advanced it was.
And I had in my mind, my previous oncologist saying to me, a lot of times when breast cancer comes back, it comes back stage four.
I didn't know what stage it was.
But in my mind, I'm like, is it stage four?
Am I going to die?
(06:18):
I don't want to die.
I'm not ready to die.
And so you have all of these feelings and emotions.
I actually had one morning that I was just crying on my floor, and I was just praying to God.
And I know that you're not necessarily supposed to make deals with God.
But I remember praying, Lord, I'll do the chemo if I need to do chemo.
I'll do whatever treatment.
(06:38):
I will walk through those things.
Just please let me live.
And if you let me live, I will not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ.
Which is something I would say that I haven't ever been ashamed of the gospel of Christ, but I haven't been as vocal about it.
God graciously let me get through this treatment, which was a lot harder the second time around.
I'm reminded of that often when I'm hit with questions about my faith or how you walk through cancer.
(07:03):
I'm reminded, okay, give the glory to God for this.
That comes back to my mind a lot, that morning that I was just crying and praying.
You mentioned that during this time, you were ministering to others who were going through cancer.
And I see that as a very common theme of those people who are able to go through this journey somewhat well, are those who are giving back to others, those who, even though they're going through something momentous for themselves, are able to focus on others.
(07:34):
What do you think it was in you that caused you to think outside yourself during that very difficult time?
I think part of that is knowing Christ and knowing that we're called to serve others.
Having that experience and after getting through it, having the experience and knowing that I was getting further away from the scary parts, it was like, I have some knowledge that can help other women.
(07:59):
Why would I not use that?
God allows us to go through hard things so that we can comfort others in those things.
I wanted to do that.
That's kind of why I stayed in that cancer world.
And after my first diagnosis, my mom and two of her friends, all three had daughters diagnosed with cancer the same year.
(08:21):
They started this ministry of making, they're called mastectomy pillows, and they go in your armpit for after breast surgeries.
They send them all over the U.S. They've sent them to other countries as well for free.
That ministry goes through my website.
They make all the pillows, and I'm kind of the go-between.
But that has also helped me just stay in that world because we're regularly sending these to people.
(08:43):
And then I always send them a message and say, hey, if you want to speak to someone who's been through it, here's my email.
Reach out to me and we'll chat.
That's one of the ways I just stayed in that cancer world.
We're certainly not told in Scripture that it's going to be an easy ride, but were there any times that you started to think, hey, this isn't right, I'm doing the right thing, and had to come back to that point of, hey, the Scripture doesn't promise us this easy ride that we so often think we should have?
(09:13):
2 Yes, for sure.
I remind myself of that regularly.
Like you said, we're not promised easy, and if you read the Scripture, the people who followed Christ, it's hard to think of somebody who maybe had a smooth sailing life.
So, I think that we should expect to have hardship.
We live in a broken and fallen world, and sometimes it feels unfair to me.
(09:33):
I watch friends of mine or other people and it's like, oh, you guys are doing great.
You guys have no issues.
Your health is fine.
Your family's fine.
And so, if you start looking at other people and comparing, that's when sometimes I will have a pity party for myself.
But I know the truth.
I know that I'm not promised health.
I'm not promised life.
I know where I'm going when this life is over.
(09:54):
So, that gives me comfort as well.
I would like to stay here as long as possible and watch my kids grow up and grow old with my husband.
But ultimately, I know I'm not promised smooth sailing, and neither is anyone else.
So, when we're going through the hard things, it's the challenge of, how do I do this?
How do I do this well, and how do I focus on the important things here?
(10:16):
And how do I still have joy?
During that second cancer battle, of course, you found that your son was going through his own health issues, and it was very difficult to pin down exactly what was going on.
Tell me some of that story.
Yes.
It was in the middle of chemotherapy.
So, I went through 16 rounds of chemotherapy.
(10:38):
It started in about May.
Our middle son, Owen, started getting sick.
We thought it was a virus, and we went to the doctor.
She thought it was probably viral, and he just wasn't getting better.
Ultimately, he just kept losing weight.
His digestive system wasn't working right.
He went from a very strong, muscular, kind of weightlifting guy up close to 200 pounds, and at his lowest, he was about 155, I think.
(11:05):
It just took such a long time to figure out what was wrong with him, and it was very scary watching my son just fade away in front of me.
He had moved out of the house.
He was 20 at the time, but it took a long time.
First, you have to go to a regular doctor, and then you need to get sent to a specialist.
He had some symptoms that didn't seem to fit what he ultimately was diagnosed with, so that made it take even longer.
(11:29):
I felt like I just had to really be an advocate for him, saying, this is happening.
He is not okay.
It took a few months, and then he was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, which is an autoimmune disease.
It can be challenging to treat.
There's lots of different medications and treatments for it, but different things work for different people.
It was really a couple years of a roller coaster with him until we got him on a medication that is now working really well.
(11:55):
He's actually in EMT school right now.
He's healthy.
He's doing great, and it's so good to see, but to watch that as I was going through chemo, I was like, I will go through double my treatments if my son would just be healthy.
I can do this myself.
I can't watch my son do it.
It was very hard, very hard to watch him go through.
(12:16):
And when you compare the two issues, you have been diagnosed, and at least you know, this is the treatment that I require.
It must have been incredibly difficult for you not being able to get a diagnosis, to know that things are continuing to be difficult for your son as you're seeing him fade away in front of your eyes, but not have a solution or even a diagnosis.
(12:41):
Yes, that was one of the hardest things.
You just want to know what it is so you can start treating it so he can get better.
It was just months and months of trying this thing and doing that thing and him just getting sicker.
And we ended up switching doctors halfway through it because I felt like I was speaking to a brick wall.
Like, he's not getting better.
He's not getting better.
(13:01):
And so the not knowing is very hard.
You know, the diagnosis is not fun either because it's autoimmune.
It's something he's going to need to learn to deal with for the rest of his life.
But yes, just that not knowing, especially as I was going through treatment.
Thankfully, chemo, as far as side effects go, went better for me than for a lot of people.
There's a lot of days I didn't feel good and I have no hair and I have no energy.
(13:26):
So just watching him and going through that, those things together, it felt like too much.
And there were probably points in that period of time that I was like, Lord, why?
Why do we have to do so much?
But I just would have to remind myself, he knows.
He knows Owen and he loves Owen.
But it wasn't easy.
It wasn't easy at all.
(13:47):
You took your background as a writer and used that to help others as well.
Your first book was Life Reconstructed.
Tell me a little about that book.
Yeah, that came out of my first diagnosis and it is a book.
It's got a pretty targeted audience of women who have been diagnosed with breast cancer and are facing mastectomy and breast reconstruction.
(14:11):
And so it's kind of a guidebook for women going through that.
I go through medical information, there's different types of surgeries.
So it's chapters on the medical, there's chapters on the psychological things that you go through, relational things.
How do I talk to my children about this?
How do I rate late to my spouse through this diagnosis?
(14:31):
And spiritually, how is that affecting me?
And so just a lot of chapters on different aspects of what you go through during that.
And my story is woven throughout it.
But I interviewed a lot of different women and spouses as well, who walked that road and had their perspective in there.
And so that first book, it's really meant when someone's diagnosed and they're facing that, as here is what you might expect, and maybe this can help you make decisions and help you understand what you're feeling, those emotions, and what your mind is doing.
(15:03):
So that was my first book, and it actually was published by a general market publisher.
So that is not a Christian book, though my story, my faith story through that is in there, sprinkled throughout, because I can't tell my story without telling what God has done.
That first book, a much different book than my second book, but I'm really thankful I had the opportunity to write that.
(15:23):
And it really actually helped me process through a lot of my emotions and was therapeutic to write that book.
And I know that you formed a close friendship with a doctor that you were checking with, are all these medical things I'm saying correct?
Tell me about that friendship.
It's very sweet friendship.
When I had my manuscript ready to go, I wanted to have a medical professional who would look at it and make sure all the technical things I had in there were correct, and that I'd written it well, written it right.
(15:54):
And so I cold called this office at the Katzmann Breast Center in Des Moines, and there is a breast surgeon there named Dr. Beck, who is well loved in Central Iowa.
I asked if she would be willing to read through the manuscript and just make sure I was on target and just kind of glance through it with me.
And she said, you know, let's meet for coffee and let's talk about this.
(16:16):
And so we did, we met for coffee.
And she said, you know, I would like to read this chapter by chapter and go through this with you.
And that was fantastic.
She made sure all of the medical information was right.
There's a couple of sections in there that are added because of her.
She said, I think you should talk a little bit about this.
And so she was really great with me in writing that book.
And she is also a follower of Jesus.
(16:38):
And so we formed this friendship that remained over the next several years.
So when I found the lump in my armpit, seven years after my first diagnosis, my first call was to my oncologist.
But my second call was to Dr. Beck.
She got me quickly in for an ultrasound and biopsy and scheduled my surgery.
And she's actually the one who did my surgery to remove the tumor.
(17:02):
And she did my surgery to install the port in my chest, which is where my chemo would go.
I'm getting wheeled into surgery by my friend.
And she's like the last person I see as I'm drifting off to sleep.
And so it's just a beautiful story of what God did.
Like when I met her the first time, I had no idea that she would become so important to me on the medical side of things.
(17:25):
I didn't think I would ever need her for that.
I just thought she'd be my friend.
And so that is just a really cool story that came out of that.
I'm sure that as you've gone through this journey, you've found the value in needing to have the right people in your corner, both from a faith perspective, those people surrounding you, but also from a medical perspective.
(17:45):
How important is it that if we're going through something like this, whether it is cancer or any other medical diagnosis, that we find the right people to have in our corner in those different areas?
It's very important.
My oncologist, I like her a lot.
And then Dr. Beck was great.
And most of the people that I've had with me medically and for cancer have been great.
(18:08):
I think of my son, and halfway through trying to figure out what was wrong with him, we really had to switch to a different doctor.
And then we're very happy with the next one or the second one that we ended up with.
It is important.
I guess after my first diagnosis, I'd have a surgeon and a plastic surgeon.
And I had an appointment with a plastic surgeon who, and that appointment was really pretty horrible.
(18:30):
I remember going home and I just cried on the way home.
And when we got there, I called a friend of mine and she's like, you need a different surgeon.
Call and get a different surgeon.
And I did.
And that was so good for me to do because I had to have that surgeon for multiple surgeries.
I was seeing him a lot.
And so it's really important to have a medical professional that you feel like hears you, you feel like is taking good care of you.
(18:50):
Now, sometimes you don't have a lot of choice.
I know sometimes you don't have choice in the matter.
But if you do, it's very important to advocate for yourself.
Also to just have people, friends in your corner who love you, who understand you.
When you're diagnosed with cancer, it's interesting because you kind of find the people who are your people and are going to be the ones that are in this with you.
(19:12):
And some of those friends kind of fade away because cancer makes people uncomfortable.
And so finding that group of people is important.
And then I'm grateful to have a really supportive husband and children who are pretty amazing.
And so being able to walk through that with a lot of people who loved me and supported me is great.
Not everybody has that.
But man, if you can, if you can find those people, it really makes it easier to go through.
(19:35):
Tell me about that book, Carried Through Cancer, and tell me about the story of that.
Carried Through Cancer is much different than my first book.
It's a devotional for women going through cancer, not just breast cancer, and for caregivers as well.
It's 70 stories.
10 of those are my own personal stories of God meeting me in specific places.
(19:57):
The story I told you about Dr. Beck is actually a story in there of my friend Susan.
50 stories are stories written based on interviews with women who have gone through cancer or who are still fighting cancer.
10 stories in the book are from interviews I did with caregivers.
Each story in the book is a real story from me talking to a real person about where a real God met them in a very hard place.
(20:23):
And I wanted to write these to be an encouragement to women who are going through cancer to maybe look at their experiences and be able to see where God is working in their cancer and to be able to seek Him.
I think it's so helpful to read things that are encouraging.
Wow, this person went through this really hard thing, but look what God did.
(20:45):
It was an encouraging thing to me as I went through it.
And so that's what I wanted this to be is an encouragement for others.
And the stories are pretty short.
They're 500 to 600 words.
If you're going through treatment, you can just open it really anywhere.
You can read a story for that day.
There's a prayer with it and kind of a meditation section or reflection to maybe think some more on what is talked about.
(21:07):
That was my hope in that book is to write something that will give other people hope when they're walking through cancer.
I know that although cancer is very prevalent in our society, it's often something that is swept under the rug that we don't talk about.
And yet here's this book that shares stories of others who have gone through exactly that journey.
(21:29):
That must be incredibly empowering for people who are going through cancer, feeling like they're all alone to realize there have been others gone through this before and God has met them in that time.
Yeah, it can be very isolating.
You can feel very alone.
There are a lot of people, cancer, like you said, it's pretty prevalent.
But when you're diagnosed, you don't necessarily know somebody else who's going through it.
(21:53):
So yeah, to be able to read and see so many people who have walked a similar road and who have come through on the other side, or maybe they're still in treatment, but they are focusing on the positive and looking for God in that.
I think that's a encouraging thing.
It's hard.
It can be a very lonely place, and it's a place you don't want to be alone.
(22:13):
You want to have support and people who understand what you're going through.
If you were speaking to someone right now who is going through a cancer battle, and yet they don't yet know the Lord, what would your encouragement to them be?
My encouragement would be to seek Him.
(22:34):
It's hard.
It's so hard to go through cancer.
I often think about what would that be like to go through if I didn't have the hope that I have in my faith.
I would encourage you just to pray, just to call out to God.
Maybe you don't know if it's true.
You don't know if scripture and what it says is true.
Well, ask God to show you.
(22:55):
Ask Him if He's real.
Ask Him to show up in a certain way for you.
Our prayers don't come back void.
So if you're seeking and looking for that hope, I don't think it will come back empty.
I would say to just open yourself up to that.
I have found that when people are diagnosed with cancer or going through very hard things is a time when they're maybe open to spiritual things in a way that we're not when life is going our way or going fine.
(23:24):
So this might be the time that God is going to show Himself to you because you're open to it.
I would say seek Him and seek out other people who are going through this who are faith-filled people to just ask them, what is it?
What is it that you have that I don't?
Pete I know that your website has connections for people to find your books, but also your blog so that you're writing in an ongoing way.
(23:51):
And I do have links to your website in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily.
I want to thank you for sharing your story and especially, Kim, thank you for your time today on Bleeding Daylight.
Kim Thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate you just giving me the opportunity to talk to you about what I've been through and what God has taught me.
(24:14):
I appreciate this time.
bleedingdaylight.net
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