October 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Lisa Haynes had climbed to the top of the corporate ladder as a CFO, but when God began stirring her heart toward something new, she made the bold decision to walk away from success as the world defines it. In this conversation, Lisa shares how she transitioned from corporate leadership to becoming a certified retirement coach and author of two powerful books: "Retired and Killin’ It" and "The Storm: For Your Good and For His Glory."
Lisa offers a fresh perspective on retirement that goes far beyond financial planning. She discusses how to combat feelings of invisibility and uselessness that many face in their later years, emphasizing that decades of accumulated wisdom and experience are exactly what younger generations need. Her "Killin’ It" framework helps people design holistic retirement plans that address not just finances, but the social, psychological, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of this significant life transition. She also opens up about writing "The Storm" during one of her family's most difficult seasons, offering hope and practical wisdom for anyone navigating trials, grief, or uncertainty about God's purposes in hardship.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Welcome and thanks for listening to Bleeding Daylight today.
You'll find many more inspiring episodes at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:29):
Please share this and other episodes with others.
Tell a friend or share through social media.
My guest today covers two topics.
While one might be a fair way off for many, the other is one that touches all our lives.
She has written books on both.
(00:49):
Today, we're exploring the topics of retirement and facing life's storms.
I'm thrilled to have Lisa Haines with me today, someone whose story beautifully illustrates what it means to trust God's timing, even when it means walking away from everything that looks like success.
(01:16):
Lisa spent decades climbing the corporate ladder, eventually becoming a CFO with all the influence and stability that comes with that role, but she felt God's stirring something new in her heart.
A leap of faith led her to become a certified executive and retirement coach, and she's authored two powerful books, The Storm for Your Good and for His Glory, born from one of life's most difficult seasons, and Retired and Killin' It, which helps people design meaningful lives after their careers end.
(01:47):
Her journey is really about surrender and following God's lead into unknown territory and discovering renewed purpose along the way.
Lisa, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
It is great to be here today.
I mentioned that you achieved what most people would see as the highs of success before a change in direction.
(02:07):
Tell me about that success and the things that you achieved in the corporate world.
I have to say I've had a blessed career.
I started out in public accounting.
Finance and accounting has been my area, and I spent the better part of 30-plus years.
I worked for some very large companies, very small companies, and then made it to what in my profession would be the top, which is a chief financial officer.
(02:30):
Having had the opportunity to serve as a chief financial officer for an organization for 10 years, I really had gotten to the place.
I'd paired that with a very unlikely job.
I was also the chief diversity and inclusion officer.
Those two have nothing to do with each other.
However, I had the time, energy, and skill set to jump into both.
Just having the opportunity to really excel to what is the top of the finance and accounting world by being a chief financial officer, I just had the opportunity to work with some fantastic people, interact with boards of directors, work directly with the CEO and CEOs of other companies.
(03:07):
I have to say that God really did order my steps when it came to my career.
Before this stirring that I talked about in the introduction, where did you think things were headed, just continuing on in that vein or working towards a retirement?
What did you have in mind?
Yeah, that's interesting.
That's kind of the beginning of the story.
I was in my 10th year and ready to do something else, but I kept telling myself, I've got one more big push in me.
(03:32):
I can take on a larger CFO role.
In my mind, I was transitioning from what was a large trade association to some large corporation, whether it's Fortune 100 or whatever.
In my mind, I said, okay, I can do one more push.
I'm reaching out, I'm talking to people about that next role, that next big role, which to me was similar to what I'm doing, but on a higher level, a greater plane, larger company, more impact.
(03:59):
That's where I thought I was headed.
And often, that's what the world tells us, you've just got to keep going onward and upward and yet, along comes this stirring from God.
Can you explain that for me?
Yeah, that was interesting.
I'm in a group called Athena Alliance, which is really for women who are seeking board positions.
They give you some coaching and I had some hours to use for coaching.
(04:23):
I met with one of the women and she was kind of a transition coach.
I met with her, told her kind of where I am, this is where I'm at in my career.
She said, okay, I'm going to give you a set of questions and I want you to go in, I want you to think about these questions.
And they were questions like, what does the company look like that you want to work for?
How many people are there?
How many people are reporting to you?
What are some of the responsibilities?
(04:44):
And so she gave me this kind of detailed list of questions.
And as I started to go through the questions, my mind kept thinking, wow, this sounds like a lot.
Do I really, you really want to do this?
And I kept telling myself, do you want to start all over again?
Because that's what you're doing.
You're starting all over at a new company.
It was answering those questions that God began to say, that's not the path I have for you.
(05:06):
But in my mind, I'm like, of course it is.
That's what's next.
And I kept pushing myself.
And finally, when I couldn't answer these questions, I had to acknowledge, okay, God, what are you telling me to do?
And he said, yeah, it's time to step away from that, which was not the answer at all.
Not that I wasn't planning to retire sometime in the next five or so years.
(05:27):
And in my head, I always wanted to retire early.
I don't know that given where I was in my career, I was ready for that moment.
But once I got that kind of confirmation that yes, and I went back to the coach, she said, okay, where did you stand?
I said, you know, I'm going to retire.
And she said, that's not the answer I was expecting, but I get it.
It was just that quick that I got confirmation and comfortable really quick and right at ease that that was the direction I was supposed to be going.
(05:55):
Not because I needed to step away and just go relax and play pickleball, but because it was very clear that God had something else for me to do after this.
I think many of us have felt that unsettledness around things.
It's one thing to feel that and feel that I think my season here has ended, but it's another thing to discover what God has for us next.
(06:18):
So how did God start to let you know what direction to head in?
Interesting thing about stepping into retirement is that you step into something that you've kind of waited for, for your entire career.
And I realized very quickly, I had absolutely no idea what I was going to do.
The structure of work is gone.
(06:38):
You no longer have the title.
I had already been booked to speak at a conference right after my retirement.
The question came up about retirement.
What made you make this decision?
And how is it going for you?
And I said to the person who was the moderator, I've only been retired now for three weeks, but I think I was born to be retired because I'm Killin' It.
(07:00):
I said that out of jest, it was kind of tongue in cheek.
But when I left that, people came to me and they're like, you seem so happy.
I've never seen somebody so excited about retiring.
What are you going to do next?
And I said, that's the thing.
I got to come up with a plan.
I come home from this and this Killin' It just stayed with me.
It just wouldn't go away.
(07:21):
And then I was talking to my regular executive coach and I said to her, I think that Killin' It is a formula for people who are going to retire.
I said, I have some ideas.
I want to throw it out to you.
I can only attribute it to God to take the acronym Killin' It and give me something for every single one of those acronyms.
The way it came and the way I got introduced to this idea of retirement coaching, which I had never heard of.
(07:47):
I work with people on the financial side.
I have helped people with financial coaching as well as just regular budgeting.
But this idea that there's someone who helps you with all of the other parts of a time, the psychological, the social, the emotional parts that really struck a chord with me.
And very quickly I gained a passion for it, got the certification and then started writing a book.
(08:10):
It was just amazing to me how quickly the book came together.
Someone asked me, was it hard to write the book?
And I said, no, because I think the book was already there.
God had already placed the book in me.
Just getting my discipline to get it on paper.
That's the hard part.
But I have to say that God very quickly told me that what I would do next would be help other people to get to where they needed to be after retirement considering I was still figuring it out.
(08:37):
There are various ways that people see retirement.
Some see retirement in our societies as a use by date, that we get to that time and suddenly we're no longer of use because we're used to being productive in our workplace and bringing value to our workplace and the things that we do.
We get to retirement and there can be this sense of I'm no longer of use.
(09:01):
So how do we start to overcome that and say, we're just moving into a different part of our lives rather than it all wrapping up at this point?
One of the things that I love to tell clients is you've gained a lot of knowledge.
Think of books of a library, right?
You have got tons of books in your library.
Somebody else needs that knowledge.
(09:21):
One of the parts of the Kilnit formula is invest in others.
That's the last eye.
What are you going to do to invest in others, right?
You have something to give no matter what that is.
You've got to figure out what that piece is that you can give to somebody else because it's there.
And then I talk to people about your legacy.
What will your legacy be?
You've probably left a legacy at work.
(09:42):
Don't know what that is.
And people often think big when they think legacy like, oh, I'm going to leave a million dollars to my kids.
Well, most of us are not.
And so that's not the legacy we're going to leave.
Maya Angelou says your legacy is every life that you touch.
And so I say to people whose life are you supposed to touch post-retirement?
You're supposed to do more than play pickleball or tennis or checkers or whatever you're going to do on your golf.
(10:06):
Whatever you're doing, that is a part of your retirement.
But there's another part of your retirement that says, what can you do that stays productive, that keeps your mind, your body and your soul active?
Because one of the dangers of retirement is that people take that expired by date.
And then the instances of depression are fairly high in retirement.
The instances of loneliness are fairly high in retirement.
(10:29):
And so getting people out there to create this social connection, you lose connections when you leave work because work gives you natural network.
Just making sure that people stay connected to others.
What are you going to do?
And that's where I came up with the Killin' It formula to really help people create that plan.
Have a plan when you leave.
(10:49):
You have a financial plan when you leave.
You also need a social, psychological, spiritual plan when you leave work.
I'm wondering if there are people who, when they retire, start to feel invisible because the whole of our society is pointed towards young people and older people, as you say, have built up years and years, decades of experience and have so much to offer.
(11:12):
And yet sometimes our society can make older people start to feel like, well, you have nothing of value to offer.
You don't know the latest technology.
You don't know the latest whatever it might be.
And therefore, it's almost as if all that life experience doesn't matter anymore.
How do we counteract that?
I think it's finding your place.
My mom's in her 80s and she teaches ESL classes at the library because she knows English very well.
(11:39):
She was tutoring a woman who was trying to get a job.
She'd been tutoring this woman in English and the woman landed a job.
She succeeded.
She's helped somebody.
She's touched some lives.
So for many of us, it's finding that place where you can.
Yes, society will toss some people aside or toss older people aside, but there is a place for people.
You just kind of have to find your place.
(12:01):
What can you teach?
What can you be involved in?
Who can you help?
If you have good health and you have a good mind, there are people who are even older than you when you retire who have a need.
I would talk to somebody.
They do this thing where they go to hospitals where there are sick children.
So that's a part of it.
They read to the children.
So there's always something that we can do.
(12:22):
One of the things that I like to tell people is find your passion.
What is that thing that you are passionate about?
Because passion can take you a long way.
So if you're passionate about something, you can then get other people to want to engage with you because of your passion for that.
What's that thing that you lose time?
You lose track of time doing.
And while it's not going to be for the older generation, it probably won't be the latest technology.
(12:46):
Most of us are probably not Snapchatting.
So we're generations are still on Facebook, which of course is outdated to many of the newer generations.
But the fact that we have knowledge that they don't have, leadership skills, emotional intelligence is a huge gap for generations that are to come.
How can we engage them in that?
(13:08):
There are lots of ways out there.
I get the AARP magazine and AARP has a number of different ways that people can be engaged in whether it's mentoring or tutoring or any of those ways where you can give back.
If you're a former business owner, I can guarantee you that you say, I'm giving out an hour of tutoring or mentoring for new business owners.
(13:28):
You will have more people shooting for that hour because young people are creating new businesses, but they're not necessarily knowledgeable about all the aspects of building new business.
And so kind of whatever your niche is, if you're a cook, this is not a cooking generation.
This is the microwave generation.
But there are people out there who want to know how to cook.
So you could do an online cooking class for people who want to cook.
(13:51):
I'd probably sign up.
I cook great, but I'd love to be able to cook some other dishes that other people can.
So I think it's really about finding your passion, the thing that you're passionate about, and then figure out how you're going to use that to give back.
You've mentioned passion a number of times, and I guess rather than seeing retirement as an end of life, as an end of work, an end of being productive, we can see it as an opportunity to be released into our passion.
(14:18):
Previously, we've been working for a company, working for a business, or even if we're running our own business, there are things that need to be done that mean that we can't fully explore our passions.
How freeing is it for people to be released into their passion once they hit that retirement age?
To me, it is fantastic.
(14:38):
I call it shifting into your next versus people like, oh, you know, you're going to be retired.
I'm like, I don't know that I'd call it that.
I'm shifting into my next gear.
I think of it as this way.
It's doing what you always wanted to do.
Work prohibits you from just kind of doing some of the things that we love.
Let's just say you like gardening.
Well, you're restricted to gardening on Saturdays or whatever if you're working a full-time job, depending on what it is.
(15:02):
But when you're retired, you could spend all day out in your garden if you wanted to, right?
You could actually now grow vegetables and sell them, right?
You could take your passion to the nth degree.
There is something freeing about just being able to step in to figure out what it is you've always wanted to do and then just go do it.
Even if you don't have tons of money, it's less about I have all the money in the world.
(15:23):
Yeah, we'd all like to travel the world and have all the money in the world to travel, but that's exhausting too.
What is it that you love to do that you can do at your own house and you can join other people to doing it?
My mom likes to knit and crochet and all that kind of thing.
And now she's got a young woman who wants to learn some of that stuff.
Just the opportunity to share some of that knowledge is really freeing and it also helps people to feel useful.
(15:49):
And you can also turn around and if you decide I want to work, whatever your occupation was, are there opportunities for you to say, well, I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do it when I want, as often as I want.
So whatever that thing is that you used to do, can you figure out if you can do some contracting in that area?
Because then it's like, I'm still kind of working, but I'm still able to do what I want whenever I want to do it.
(16:10):
And there's something freeing about not having to worry about that time clock that tells you what time you have to get up for work tomorrow.
One of the things that occurs to me is whether you're teaching someone how to knit or teaching someone how to cook, oftentimes that puts us in close proximity to that younger person.
And it actually, as well as the skills we're passing on, we're passing on life wisdom.
(16:34):
How important is that for younger people to just be brushing up against older people and starting to see the way that others live and have lived over decades?
I think it's extremely valuable, particularly since we live in this world of 160 characters, that they recognize that there's a world that existed before them and how it operated and how people interchange and just important for them to be in proximity.
(17:01):
I think grandparents become increasingly more important.
And whether you have grandkids or it's other people's kids that you fostering in or adopting as grandkids, grandparents become really important in this kind of life stage for kids so they can understand what life was like before them and some of the wisdom that happened.
It's hilarious to me sometimes when I tell things to my grandkids and they almost think that I'm prehistoric.
(17:26):
Some of the questions that they ask and I'm like, no, we did have electricity.
For them, there's no sense of time as to when you were born versus when there was no electricity.
I think it's really important to be able to tell them these stories.
I think family stories are part of our legacy and we don't want them to get lost.
The stories of relatives that they never knew, great grandparents that they never got to meet or things like that.
(17:51):
I think those are so important to carry on through a family so that we have family knowledge.
What's happening?
Where are we from?
So much of that is getting lost in this technological generation and in this world where technology does everything, AI does everything.
We're missing out on storytelling.
We're missing out on the touch, having intergenerational conversation, which I think is really important.
(18:16):
It's so good to know that the end of our working life, so to speak, does not mean the end of our purpose, the end of our availability to God to be able to continue to build into the lives of others.
But I want to switch gears and talk about your book, The Storm.
Can you tell me a little about that?
(18:37):
Yeah, so The Storm was written out of a storm.
That was a period of time where my family was what I consider to be under a pretty deep attack from Satan just as a family unit.
That book was written really from the perspective of how storms come about.
Storms can come about because of your disobedience.
(18:59):
The storms can come about because God's trying to make you into something or he's trying to do something in you.
Storms come for various reasons.
Sometimes it's not your storm.
God is doing something in the life of somebody who's close to you or in proximity with you, and you're just getting the repercussions of the storm.
You're just kind of in the wind of the storm.
That book was really to encourage people who are either in the storm or headed into the storm that there are things that you can do.
(19:26):
It feels hopeless in the storm.
But here are some things you can do.
It talks about the importance of the Word of God while you're in the storm and that being an anchor for you and finding those verses of scripture that will help anchor you in that time of difficulty, right?
It talks about finding that person.
I call them the lifesaver, the person who steps in and helps carry you through that period of time.
(19:49):
God will often send someone when you're at your weakest moment that helps carry you through a period of difficult time.
For me, it was my godmother.
She just kind of helped carry me through spiritually, continuing to pump the Word into me, continuing to encourage me.
This book, I actually wrote it 20 or so years ago, and then I republished it in 2022.
I added two chapters on the end, and the two chapters on the end were really about the storm of grief.
(20:15):
I Lost My Dad in 2022.
It talks about the storm of grief and the loss associated with it and the changes that you go through when you're grieving.
You have somebody who's ill and grieving, parental care and all of that.
Kind of for me, going through a difficult time, how do I share that pain to help somebody else through?
(20:37):
I was actually still in the storm when I was writing it.
By the time I finished it, I had come out of that storm.
But it's really meant to be an encouragement because we're always in something.
But there are times when it seems like we're not going to come out of that storm.
It just seems like it's going to take us out.
The book is designed to help some people get some hope about coming out of that storm.
(20:58):
I love the fact that you point to the key of working out what it is that has caused the storm, because we know that sometimes, yes, a storm can be through our own disobedience to God, or it can be that God is teaching us something, as you mentioned, or it can be just the fact that we do live in a broken world.
(21:19):
We're not always going to find out exactly what that is.
We look at the book of Job and we know that Job struggled and could not work out what it was that was causing this.
But again, he leaned into remaining faithful to God.
So how important is it for us not to immediately label the storm as one thing or the other?
(21:39):
I think it's critically important to our ability to manage the storm, because when we decide that the storm is one or the other, let's just say the storm is because of our disobedience.
If we haven't tagged that as a storm of disobedience, we may stay in that storm longer than we planned because we haven't corrected the action that's causing the storm.
(22:00):
But in the case where you've assessed yourself, you've tried to really look at God, what possibly could have me in this storm?
You haven't come out with anything.
God hasn't pointed anything out.
Nobody around you seems to be doing anything or in any level of disobedience that's causing the storm.
God will reveal, it's the storm.
(22:21):
It's a Job storm.
I'm doing something with or through you for the sake of others.
And sometimes it is just that.
Sometimes it's because he needs us to have a testimony, because our testimony is going to help somebody else.
And that is so often the case that we go through something to help somebody else.
We've been through it, and then somebody else comes in our path who's going through the same thing or something similar.
(22:44):
And it is our responsibility to use our experience to help someone else.
Just taking that step back and pausing and allowing God to show us exactly what the purpose of the storm is.
Why did the storm come as opposed to in our humanity deciding we're going to choose what the storm was, which can be dangerous if we don't choose the right thing.
(23:05):
I am sure that since you first published the book some years ago and then republished it in 2022 with those extra chapters, that there have been people that have read through it and have been extremely thankful that they've been able to start making sense of their own storm.
Have you heard any stories from people that have been encountering their own storm and have been helped by the book?
(23:30):
I actually have.
I've had people who've read the original book and then read the second version, maybe even just the last chapters.
Two examples, one woman said, I finally was able to face the grief and the loss and recognize what steps I needed to take.
She said, I felt like I was a gerbil on a hamster wheel, where I just kept doing and going through the same motions.
(23:53):
And so it was that pause of, yes, I'm allowed to acknowledge that I'm not okay and I'm grieving.
And yes, it's okay to get help, which is one of the things I talk about in the book, is the program Grief Share.
I went through the Grief Share program, which is a Christian program that offers support around grief and people should not be ashamed to go get help.
(24:13):
I had someone who reached out to me.
This was in between me publishing the book.
She reached out and said, I need a copy of your book.
Is it still in print?
And I said, I don't know, but I probably have a couple of copies in the garage.
She said, can you send it to me?
It's helped me so much.
And I have somebody who needs a copy of this book.
This had been six, seven years after the book was out of print, the first version.
(24:37):
I did have 10 copies in the garage.
And she's like, how much do I owe you?
I said, you don't owe me anything.
I'm just going to send this to you because it's just, you know, if it can help somebody.
But she said it had helped her through the storm she was going through.
And this person who she was giving the book to, she said, she just is really in need of something to encourage her.
I think this book is going to really help her.
(24:58):
When you're in the middle of a storm, sometimes just knowing somebody else understands what it is, what it means to be in that storm.
I talk in the book about how oftentimes in the church, we throw a lot of religious platitudes at people when they're in the midst of difficulty.
That doesn't always help people.
For some people it's nice, but it's not always helpful.
(25:20):
And sometimes you need somebody to just say, let people throw a pity party for a short period of time.
They can't stay there, but just let them have a pity party and not give them lots of religious platitudes about praying for you.
And God doesn't give you more than you can bear and all the things that are spiritually absolutely correct, but sometimes not helpful at a given period in time when you're in the middle of the storm and you feel like you're down in the dump.
(25:44):
Sometimes you just need to let someone be there and then figure out how to lift them up.
And I would imagine that being able to say to someone, here's a book that has really helped me when I was going through my own struggles in my own storm.
It might be helpful to you.
It's probably a good way to help someone.
We often see someone who's going through their own battles and we think, I don't know how to help.
(26:09):
I don't know.
Do I make a meal?
Do I just turn up?
Do I speak to them?
Do I not speak to them?
And so I guess that's a practical way of saying to someone, hey, here's something that helped me.
I'm hoping that this will help you.
How important is it that we find those ways to walk alongside someone in our life who is going through a storm?
(26:29):
To me, it's critically important.
I think that one of the things that helped me in dealing with grief was going to a grief share program where others were dealing with the same thing.
It was the first parent that I lost, so it was very difficult.
People say, well, they were older.
It doesn't matter how old your parent is and it doesn't matter how old you are.
Hearing other people whose grief stories might have been even more severe than mine helped me because I was actually able to help other people as I shared about my struggles with grief.
(27:00):
I was actually able to help others as they were able to help me.
We have a tendency sometimes to really try to walk alone.
It's easier.
I don't have to share my personal business.
And the problem with walking alone sometimes is you're just that alone, right?
You've got God with you.
That's great.
I fully agree that we're never alone, but sometimes you need that human touch.
You need somebody who calls you on the phone or sends you a text message and says, just checking on you once to make sure you're okay.
(27:24):
Make sure you don't need anyone to talk to.
Sometimes we just need that as humans.
And so, I think it's really important that you find that someone, that group.
If you have the book that's going to work for you, ask around for the resources and don't be afraid to ask for help.
In this society, we're losing this ability to ask for help and it'd be okay that we're getting help.
(27:46):
You've touched on something very important there, knowing that God has created us to be in community.
So, oftentimes his love is displayed best to us through the actions of others.
We often talk about being the hands and feet of Jesus in helping others.
And sometimes we don't realize that that's exactly what we need.
We need that community around us.
(28:08):
Did it take you a while to find that community when you were going through grief or was that something that came a little easier for you?
The good thing is, is that the church I attend, Bible Base of Tampa Bay, had a grief share program.
It's one of our life groups.
The way that I initially found it, though, a friend of mine who had lost her husband had sent me the link for the devotionals.
(28:31):
So, you can sign up, subscribe, and you get a daily devotional from griefshare.org.
And I started there.
And then they mentioned that they had the grief programs.
So, I said, hmm, and decided I would ask around at the church.
And lo and behold, they had one, but they had them online where you could have taken one online.
So, there were various different places, but the link itself, the devotional was helpful because it was kind of a daily pump.
(28:55):
It was like a daily, okay, they're talking about a different topic and whether this applies to me specifically or not, it's usable.
And it was almost like someone saying every day, yeah, I understand you're still going through this today.
I believe you sign up and you get one for 365 days.
That first year of getting through all those firsts, it was very helpful.
(29:16):
I do think sometimes it can be hard to find that community, that person or that community.
I think we live in a world where connection is a little easier.
And so, sometimes it's kind of an online community or we use online resources to find a local community.
We've been talking about your book, The Storm, for your good and for his glory.
(29:38):
Also, the book Retired and Killin' It.
Both are available now and I do have the links to the books and to your website in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find them easily.
I want to thank you for what you've done, both for those people who are retiring and fearing that they might be coming to the end of their purpose when that is not the case.
(30:03):
And also for those people at whatever stage of life they're in who are going through a storm, who can find hope in the pages of that book.
And I just want to thank you for the conversation today.
Thank you for being part of Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
It was a wonderful conversation.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
(30:24):
Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Welcome and thanks for listening to Bleeding Daylight today.
You'll find many more inspiring episodes at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:29):
Please share this and other episodes with others.
Tell a friend or share through social media.
My guest today covers two topics.
While one might be a fair way off for many, the other is one that touches all our lives.
She has written books on both.
(00:49):
Today, we're exploring the topics of retirement and facing life's storms.
I'm thrilled to have Lisa Haines with me today, someone whose story beautifully illustrates what it means to trust God's timing, even when it means walking away from everything that looks like success.
(01:16):
Lisa spent decades climbing the corporate ladder, eventually becoming a CFO with all the influence and stability that comes with that role, but she felt God's stirring something new in her heart.
A leap of faith led her to become a certified executive and retirement coach, and she's authored two powerful books, The Storm for Your Good and for His Glory, born from one of life's most difficult seasons, and Retired and Killin' It, which helps people design meaningful lives after their careers end.
(01:47):
Her journey is really about surrender and following God's lead into unknown territory and discovering renewed purpose along the way.
Lisa, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
It is great to be here today.
I mentioned that you achieved what most people would see as the highs of success before a change in direction.
(02:07):
Tell me about that success and the things that you achieved in the corporate world.
I have to say I've had a blessed career.
I started out in public accounting.
Finance and accounting has been my area, and I spent the better part of 30-plus years.
I worked for some very large companies, very small companies, and then made it to what in my profession would be the top, which is a chief financial officer.
(02:30):
Having had the opportunity to serve as a chief financial officer for an organization for 10 years, I really had gotten to the place.
I'd paired that with a very unlikely job.
I was also the chief diversity and inclusion officer.
Those two have nothing to do with each other.
However, I had the time, energy, and skill set to jump into both.
Just having the opportunity to really excel to what is the top of the finance and accounting world by being a chief financial officer, I just had the opportunity to work with some fantastic people, interact with boards of directors, work directly with the CEO and CEOs of other companies.
(03:07):
I have to say that God really did order my steps when it came to my career.
Before this stirring that I talked about in the introduction, where did you think things were headed, just continuing on in that vein or working towards a retirement?
What did you have in mind?
Yeah, that's interesting.
That's kind of the beginning of the story.
I was in my 10th year and ready to do something else, but I kept telling myself, I've got one more big push in me.
(03:32):
I can take on a larger CFO role.
In my mind, I was transitioning from what was a large trade association to some large corporation, whether it's Fortune 100 or whatever.
In my mind, I said, okay, I can do one more push.
I'm reaching out, I'm talking to people about that next role, that next big role, which to me was similar to what I'm doing, but on a higher level, a greater plane, larger company, more impact.
(03:59):
That's where I thought I was headed.
And often, that's what the world tells us, you've just got to keep going onward and upward and yet, along comes this stirring from God.
Can you explain that for me?
Yeah, that was interesting.
I'm in a group called Athena Alliance, which is really for women who are seeking board positions.
They give you some coaching and I had some hours to use for coaching.
(04:23):
I met with one of the women and she was kind of a transition coach.
I met with her, told her kind of where I am, this is where I'm at in my career.
She said, okay, I'm going to give you a set of questions and I want you to go in, I want you to think about these questions.
And they were questions like, what does the company look like that you want to work for?
How many people are there?
How many people are reporting to you?
What are some of the responsibilities?
(04:44):
And so she gave me this kind of detailed list of questions.
And as I started to go through the questions, my mind kept thinking, wow, this sounds like a lot.
Do I really, you really want to do this?
And I kept telling myself, do you want to start all over again?
Because that's what you're doing.
You're starting all over at a new company.
It was answering those questions that God began to say, that's not the path I have for you.
(05:06):
But in my mind, I'm like, of course it is.
That's what's next.
And I kept pushing myself.
And finally, when I couldn't answer these questions, I had to acknowledge, okay, God, what are you telling me to do?
And he said, yeah, it's time to step away from that, which was not the answer at all.
Not that I wasn't planning to retire sometime in the next five or so years.
(05:27):
And in my head, I always wanted to retire early.
I don't know that given where I was in my career, I was ready for that moment.
But once I got that kind of confirmation that yes, and I went back to the coach, she said, okay, where did you stand?
I said, you know, I'm going to retire.
And she said, that's not the answer I was expecting, but I get it.
It was just that quick that I got confirmation and comfortable really quick and right at ease that that was the direction I was supposed to be going.
(05:55):
Not because I needed to step away and just go relax and play pickleball, but because it was very clear that God had something else for me to do after this.
I think many of us have felt that unsettledness around things.
It's one thing to feel that and feel that I think my season here has ended, but it's another thing to discover what God has for us next.
(06:18):
So how did God start to let you know what direction to head in?
Interesting thing about stepping into retirement is that you step into something that you've kind of waited for, for your entire career.
And I realized very quickly, I had absolutely no idea what I was going to do.
The structure of work is gone.
(06:38):
You no longer have the title.
I had already been booked to speak at a conference right after my retirement.
The question came up about retirement.
What made you make this decision?
And how is it going for you?
And I said to the person who was the moderator, I've only been retired now for three weeks, but I think I was born to be retired because I'm Killin' It.
(07:00):
I said that out of jest, it was kind of tongue in cheek.
But when I left that, people came to me and they're like, you seem so happy.
I've never seen somebody so excited about retiring.
What are you going to do next?
And I said, that's the thing.
I got to come up with a plan.
I come home from this and this Killin' It just stayed with me.
It just wouldn't go away.
(07:21):
And then I was talking to my regular executive coach and I said to her, I think that Killin' It is a formula for people who are going to retire.
I said, I have some ideas.
I want to throw it out to you.
I can only attribute it to God to take the acronym Killin' It and give me something for every single one of those acronyms.
The way it came and the way I got introduced to this idea of retirement coaching, which I had never heard of.
(07:47):
I work with people on the financial side.
I have helped people with financial coaching as well as just regular budgeting.
But this idea that there's someone who helps you with all of the other parts of a time, the psychological, the social, the emotional parts that really struck a chord with me.
And very quickly I gained a passion for it, got the certification and then started writing a book.
(08:10):
It was just amazing to me how quickly the book came together.
Someone asked me, was it hard to write the book?
And I said, no, because I think the book was already there.
God had already placed the book in me.
Just getting my discipline to get it on paper.
That's the hard part.
But I have to say that God very quickly told me that what I would do next would be help other people to get to where they needed to be after retirement considering I was still figuring it out.
(08:37):
There are various ways that people see retirement.
Some see retirement in our societies as a use by date, that we get to that time and suddenly we're no longer of use because we're used to being productive in our workplace and bringing value to our workplace and the things that we do.
We get to retirement and there can be this sense of I'm no longer of use.
(09:01):
So how do we start to overcome that and say, we're just moving into a different part of our lives rather than it all wrapping up at this point?
One of the things that I love to tell clients is you've gained a lot of knowledge.
Think of books of a library, right?
You have got tons of books in your library.
Somebody else needs that knowledge.
(09:21):
One of the parts of the Kilnit formula is invest in others.
That's the last eye.
What are you going to do to invest in others, right?
You have something to give no matter what that is.
You've got to figure out what that piece is that you can give to somebody else because it's there.
And then I talk to people about your legacy.
What will your legacy be?
You've probably left a legacy at work.
(09:42):
Don't know what that is.
And people often think big when they think legacy like, oh, I'm going to leave a million dollars to my kids.
Well, most of us are not.
And so that's not the legacy we're going to leave.
Maya Angelou says your legacy is every life that you touch.
And so I say to people whose life are you supposed to touch post-retirement?
You're supposed to do more than play pickleball or tennis or checkers or whatever you're going to do on your golf.
(10:06):
Whatever you're doing, that is a part of your retirement.
But there's another part of your retirement that says, what can you do that stays productive, that keeps your mind, your body and your soul active?
Because one of the dangers of retirement is that people take that expired by date.
And then the instances of depression are fairly high in retirement.
The instances of loneliness are fairly high in retirement.
(10:29):
And so getting people out there to create this social connection, you lose connections when you leave work because work gives you natural network.
Just making sure that people stay connected to others.
What are you going to do?
And that's where I came up with the Killin' It formula to really help people create that plan.
Have a plan when you leave.
(10:49):
You have a financial plan when you leave.
You also need a social, psychological, spiritual plan when you leave work.
I'm wondering if there are people who, when they retire, start to feel invisible because the whole of our society is pointed towards young people and older people, as you say, have built up years and years, decades of experience and have so much to offer.
(11:12):
And yet sometimes our society can make older people start to feel like, well, you have nothing of value to offer.
You don't know the latest technology.
You don't know the latest whatever it might be.
And therefore, it's almost as if all that life experience doesn't matter anymore.
How do we counteract that?
I think it's finding your place.
My mom's in her 80s and she teaches ESL classes at the library because she knows English very well.
(11:39):
She was tutoring a woman who was trying to get a job.
She'd been tutoring this woman in English and the woman landed a job.
She succeeded.
She's helped somebody.
She's touched some lives.
So for many of us, it's finding that place where you can.
Yes, society will toss some people aside or toss older people aside, but there is a place for people.
You just kind of have to find your place.
(12:01):
What can you teach?
What can you be involved in?
Who can you help?
If you have good health and you have a good mind, there are people who are even older than you when you retire who have a need.
I would talk to somebody.
They do this thing where they go to hospitals where there are sick children.
So that's a part of it.
They read to the children.
So there's always something that we can do.
(12:22):
One of the things that I like to tell people is find your passion.
What is that thing that you are passionate about?
Because passion can take you a long way.
So if you're passionate about something, you can then get other people to want to engage with you because of your passion for that.
What's that thing that you lose time?
You lose track of time doing.
And while it's not going to be for the older generation, it probably won't be the latest technology.
(12:46):
Most of us are probably not Snapchatting.
So we're generations are still on Facebook, which of course is outdated to many of the newer generations.
But the fact that we have knowledge that they don't have, leadership skills, emotional intelligence is a huge gap for generations that are to come.
How can we engage them in that?
(13:08):
There are lots of ways out there.
I get the AARP magazine and AARP has a number of different ways that people can be engaged in whether it's mentoring or tutoring or any of those ways where you can give back.
If you're a former business owner, I can guarantee you that you say, I'm giving out an hour of tutoring or mentoring for new business owners.
(13:28):
You will have more people shooting for that hour because young people are creating new businesses, but they're not necessarily knowledgeable about all the aspects of building new business.
And so kind of whatever your niche is, if you're a cook, this is not a cooking generation.
This is the microwave generation.
But there are people out there who want to know how to cook.
So you could do an online cooking class for people who want to cook.
(13:51):
I'd probably sign up.
I cook great, but I'd love to be able to cook some other dishes that other people can.
So I think it's really about finding your passion, the thing that you're passionate about, and then figure out how you're going to use that to give back.
You've mentioned passion a number of times, and I guess rather than seeing retirement as an end of life, as an end of work, an end of being productive, we can see it as an opportunity to be released into our passion.
(14:18):
Previously, we've been working for a company, working for a business, or even if we're running our own business, there are things that need to be done that mean that we can't fully explore our passions.
How freeing is it for people to be released into their passion once they hit that retirement age?
To me, it is fantastic.
(14:38):
I call it shifting into your next versus people like, oh, you know, you're going to be retired.
I'm like, I don't know that I'd call it that.
I'm shifting into my next gear.
I think of it as this way.
It's doing what you always wanted to do.
Work prohibits you from just kind of doing some of the things that we love.
Let's just say you like gardening.
Well, you're restricted to gardening on Saturdays or whatever if you're working a full-time job, depending on what it is.
(15:02):
But when you're retired, you could spend all day out in your garden if you wanted to, right?
You could actually now grow vegetables and sell them, right?
You could take your passion to the nth degree.
There is something freeing about just being able to step in to figure out what it is you've always wanted to do and then just go do it.
Even if you don't have tons of money, it's less about I have all the money in the world.
(15:23):
Yeah, we'd all like to travel the world and have all the money in the world to travel, but that's exhausting too.
What is it that you love to do that you can do at your own house and you can join other people to doing it?
My mom likes to knit and crochet and all that kind of thing.
And now she's got a young woman who wants to learn some of that stuff.
Just the opportunity to share some of that knowledge is really freeing and it also helps people to feel useful.
(15:49):
And you can also turn around and if you decide I want to work, whatever your occupation was, are there opportunities for you to say, well, I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do it when I want, as often as I want.
So whatever that thing is that you used to do, can you figure out if you can do some contracting in that area?
Because then it's like, I'm still kind of working, but I'm still able to do what I want whenever I want to do it.
(16:10):
And there's something freeing about not having to worry about that time clock that tells you what time you have to get up for work tomorrow.
One of the things that occurs to me is whether you're teaching someone how to knit or teaching someone how to cook, oftentimes that puts us in close proximity to that younger person.
And it actually, as well as the skills we're passing on, we're passing on life wisdom.
(16:34):
How important is that for younger people to just be brushing up against older people and starting to see the way that others live and have lived over decades?
I think it's extremely valuable, particularly since we live in this world of 160 characters, that they recognize that there's a world that existed before them and how it operated and how people interchange and just important for them to be in proximity.
(17:01):
I think grandparents become increasingly more important.
And whether you have grandkids or it's other people's kids that you fostering in or adopting as grandkids, grandparents become really important in this kind of life stage for kids so they can understand what life was like before them and some of the wisdom that happened.
It's hilarious to me sometimes when I tell things to my grandkids and they almost think that I'm prehistoric.
(17:26):
Some of the questions that they ask and I'm like, no, we did have electricity.
For them, there's no sense of time as to when you were born versus when there was no electricity.
I think it's really important to be able to tell them these stories.
I think family stories are part of our legacy and we don't want them to get lost.
The stories of relatives that they never knew, great grandparents that they never got to meet or things like that.
(17:51):
I think those are so important to carry on through a family so that we have family knowledge.
What's happening?
Where are we from?
So much of that is getting lost in this technological generation and in this world where technology does everything, AI does everything.
We're missing out on storytelling.
We're missing out on the touch, having intergenerational conversation, which I think is really important.
(18:16):
It's so good to know that the end of our working life, so to speak, does not mean the end of our purpose, the end of our availability to God to be able to continue to build into the lives of others.
But I want to switch gears and talk about your book, The Storm.
Can you tell me a little about that?
(18:37):
Yeah, so The Storm was written out of a storm.
That was a period of time where my family was what I consider to be under a pretty deep attack from Satan just as a family unit.
That book was written really from the perspective of how storms come about.
Storms can come about because of your disobedience.
(18:59):
The storms can come about because God's trying to make you into something or he's trying to do something in you.
Storms come for various reasons.
Sometimes it's not your storm.
God is doing something in the life of somebody who's close to you or in proximity with you, and you're just getting the repercussions of the storm.
You're just kind of in the wind of the storm.
That book was really to encourage people who are either in the storm or headed into the storm that there are things that you can do.
(19:26):
It feels hopeless in the storm.
But here are some things you can do.
It talks about the importance of the Word of God while you're in the storm and that being an anchor for you and finding those verses of scripture that will help anchor you in that time of difficulty, right?
It talks about finding that person.
I call them the lifesaver, the person who steps in and helps carry you through that period of time.
(19:49):
God will often send someone when you're at your weakest moment that helps carry you through a period of difficult time.
For me, it was my godmother.
She just kind of helped carry me through spiritually, continuing to pump the Word into me, continuing to encourage me.
This book, I actually wrote it 20 or so years ago, and then I republished it in 2022.
I added two chapters on the end, and the two chapters on the end were really about the storm of grief.
(20:15):
I Lost My Dad in 2022.
It talks about the storm of grief and the loss associated with it and the changes that you go through when you're grieving.
You have somebody who's ill and grieving, parental care and all of that.
Kind of for me, going through a difficult time, how do I share that pain to help somebody else through?
(20:37):
I was actually still in the storm when I was writing it.
By the time I finished it, I had come out of that storm.
But it's really meant to be an encouragement because we're always in something.
But there are times when it seems like we're not going to come out of that storm.
It just seems like it's going to take us out.
The book is designed to help some people get some hope about coming out of that storm.
(20:58):
I love the fact that you point to the key of working out what it is that has caused the storm, because we know that sometimes, yes, a storm can be through our own disobedience to God, or it can be that God is teaching us something, as you mentioned, or it can be just the fact that we do live in a broken world.
(21:19):
We're not always going to find out exactly what that is.
We look at the book of Job and we know that Job struggled and could not work out what it was that was causing this.
But again, he leaned into remaining faithful to God.
So how important is it for us not to immediately label the storm as one thing or the other?
(21:39):
I think it's critically important to our ability to manage the storm, because when we decide that the storm is one or the other, let's just say the storm is because of our disobedience.
If we haven't tagged that as a storm of disobedience, we may stay in that storm longer than we planned because we haven't corrected the action that's causing the storm.
(22:00):
But in the case where you've assessed yourself, you've tried to really look at God, what possibly could have me in this storm?
You haven't come out with anything.
God hasn't pointed anything out.
Nobody around you seems to be doing anything or in any level of disobedience that's causing the storm.
God will reveal, it's the storm.
(22:21):
It's a Job storm.
I'm doing something with or through you for the sake of others.
And sometimes it is just that.
Sometimes it's because he needs us to have a testimony, because our testimony is going to help somebody else.
And that is so often the case that we go through something to help somebody else.
We've been through it, and then somebody else comes in our path who's going through the same thing or something similar.
(22:44):
And it is our responsibility to use our experience to help someone else.
Just taking that step back and pausing and allowing God to show us exactly what the purpose of the storm is.
Why did the storm come as opposed to in our humanity deciding we're going to choose what the storm was, which can be dangerous if we don't choose the right thing.
(23:05):
I am sure that since you first published the book some years ago and then republished it in 2022 with those extra chapters, that there have been people that have read through it and have been extremely thankful that they've been able to start making sense of their own storm.
Have you heard any stories from people that have been encountering their own storm and have been helped by the book?
(23:30):
I actually have.
I've had people who've read the original book and then read the second version, maybe even just the last chapters.
Two examples, one woman said, I finally was able to face the grief and the loss and recognize what steps I needed to take.
She said, I felt like I was a gerbil on a hamster wheel, where I just kept doing and going through the same motions.
(23:53):
And so it was that pause of, yes, I'm allowed to acknowledge that I'm not okay and I'm grieving.
And yes, it's okay to get help, which is one of the things I talk about in the book, is the program Grief Share.
I went through the Grief Share program, which is a Christian program that offers support around grief and people should not be ashamed to go get help.
(24:13):
I had someone who reached out to me.
This was in between me publishing the book.
She reached out and said, I need a copy of your book.
Is it still in print?
And I said, I don't know, but I probably have a couple of copies in the garage.
She said, can you send it to me?
It's helped me so much.
And I have somebody who needs a copy of this book.
This had been six, seven years after the book was out of print, the first version.
(24:37):
I did have 10 copies in the garage.
And she's like, how much do I owe you?
I said, you don't owe me anything.
I'm just going to send this to you because it's just, you know, if it can help somebody.
But she said it had helped her through the storm she was going through.
And this person who she was giving the book to, she said, she just is really in need of something to encourage her.
I think this book is going to really help her.
(24:58):
When you're in the middle of a storm, sometimes just knowing somebody else understands what it is, what it means to be in that storm.
I talk in the book about how oftentimes in the church, we throw a lot of religious platitudes at people when they're in the midst of difficulty.
That doesn't always help people.
For some people it's nice, but it's not always helpful.
(25:20):
And sometimes you need somebody to just say, let people throw a pity party for a short period of time.
They can't stay there, but just let them have a pity party and not give them lots of religious platitudes about praying for you.
And God doesn't give you more than you can bear and all the things that are spiritually absolutely correct, but sometimes not helpful at a given period in time when you're in the middle of the storm and you feel like you're down in the dump.
(25:44):
Sometimes you just need to let someone be there and then figure out how to lift them up.
And I would imagine that being able to say to someone, here's a book that has really helped me when I was going through my own struggles in my own storm.
It might be helpful to you.
It's probably a good way to help someone.
We often see someone who's going through their own battles and we think, I don't know how to help.
(26:09):
I don't know.
Do I make a meal?
Do I just turn up?
Do I speak to them?
Do I not speak to them?
And so I guess that's a practical way of saying to someone, hey, here's something that helped me.
I'm hoping that this will help you.
How important is it that we find those ways to walk alongside someone in our life who is going through a storm?
(26:29):
To me, it's critically important.
I think that one of the things that helped me in dealing with grief was going to a grief share program where others were dealing with the same thing.
It was the first parent that I lost, so it was very difficult.
People say, well, they were older.
It doesn't matter how old your parent is and it doesn't matter how old you are.
Hearing other people whose grief stories might have been even more severe than mine helped me because I was actually able to help other people as I shared about my struggles with grief.
(27:00):
I was actually able to help others as they were able to help me.
We have a tendency sometimes to really try to walk alone.
It's easier.
I don't have to share my personal business.
And the problem with walking alone sometimes is you're just that alone, right?
You've got God with you.
That's great.
I fully agree that we're never alone, but sometimes you need that human touch.
You need somebody who calls you on the phone or sends you a text message and says, just checking on you once to make sure you're okay.
(27:24):
Make sure you don't need anyone to talk to.
Sometimes we just need that as humans.
And so, I think it's really important that you find that someone, that group.
If you have the book that's going to work for you, ask around for the resources and don't be afraid to ask for help.
In this society, we're losing this ability to ask for help and it'd be okay that we're getting help.
(27:46):
You've touched on something very important there, knowing that God has created us to be in community.
So, oftentimes his love is displayed best to us through the actions of others.
We often talk about being the hands and feet of Jesus in helping others.
And sometimes we don't realize that that's exactly what we need.
We need that community around us.
(28:08):
Did it take you a while to find that community when you were going through grief or was that something that came a little easier for you?
The good thing is, is that the church I attend, Bible Base of Tampa Bay, had a grief share program.
It's one of our life groups.
The way that I initially found it, though, a friend of mine who had lost her husband had sent me the link for the devotionals.
(28:31):
So, you can sign up, subscribe, and you get a daily devotional from griefshare.org.
And I started there.
And then they mentioned that they had the grief programs.
So, I said, hmm, and decided I would ask around at the church.
And lo and behold, they had one, but they had them online where you could have taken one online.
So, there were various different places, but the link itself, the devotional was helpful because it was kind of a daily pump.
(28:55):
It was like a daily, okay, they're talking about a different topic and whether this applies to me specifically or not, it's usable.
And it was almost like someone saying every day, yeah, I understand you're still going through this today.
I believe you sign up and you get one for 365 days.
That first year of getting through all those firsts, it was very helpful.
(29:16):
I do think sometimes it can be hard to find that community, that person or that community.
I think we live in a world where connection is a little easier.
And so, sometimes it's kind of an online community or we use online resources to find a local community.
We've been talking about your book, The Storm, for your good and for his glory.
(29:38):
Also, the book Retired and Killin' It.
Both are available now and I do have the links to the books and to your website in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find them easily.
I want to thank you for what you've done, both for those people who are retiring and fearing that they might be coming to the end of their purpose when that is not the case.
(30:03):
And also for those people at whatever stage of life they're in who are going through a storm, who can find hope in the pages of that book.
And I just want to thank you for the conversation today.
Thank you for being part of Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
It was a wonderful conversation.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
(30:24):
Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
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