January 4, 2024 • 38 mins
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Ever wondered how your morning smoothie or your night's sleep could influence your therapy sessions? Keri Cooper, an expert in holistic psychotherapy, joins us to uncover the profound connection between our daily habits and our mental health. From balancing blood sugar and leveraging the power of vitamin D, to embracing pharmaceuticals without shame, we navigate the delicate dance of combining holistic practices with Western medicine. Our conversation promises to offer insights that could transform your approach to mental health care, providing practical advice for those ready to make brave lifestyle changes for the sake of their wellbeing.
Dehydration and diet, two often-ignored culprits, take center stage as we dissect their impacts on our minds. We swap stories that bring to light the stark reality of nutrition's role in mental health and tackle the contentious issue of natural remedies versus established medical treatments. With each personal anecdote and expert critique, we build a case for critical thinking and informed decision-making in our healthcare choices, steering clear of the allure of unproven methods that neglect the harmony of a balanced healthcare regimen.
Our journey takes a turn towards the roots of our wellness woes, with a focus on education and mental health. Sharing from my own encounters with acupuncture and dietary tweaks, we paint a picture of how non-pharmaceutical approaches can provide solace. We probe the effects of stagnant educational systems and sedentary lifestyles on our children's mental health, advocating for a shift towards a more holistic view. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a call to rethink our health and the systems that shape it, inviting you to join a growing chorus that values a more integrated approach to well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to All Our Little Messes, a podcast
focused on healing throughintentional conversations about
parenting, relationships,religion and more.
I am your host, veronica Winrod, and I'm so happy to have you
here listening in on my thoughtstoday.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Hello, welcome back to All OurLittle Messes.
(00:36):
Today we're discussing holisticor natural healing within the
world of Western medicine andwhether there can be a balance
between the two within theculture of pharmaceuticals.
So this is a very nuanced topic.
So I have a guest for you guysthat utilizes this balanced
approach within her practice.
She's a holisticpsychotherapist with over 20
(00:58):
years of experience in the field.
Hi Curie, it's great to haveyou on today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yes, it's been great.
I'm really excited to talkabout your experience with
Western medicine and within yourpractice, because I know you
tried to approach therapy with aholistic approach to the entire
body and stuff.
So what can you tell me aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I do.
I really think that wheneverwe're addressing anything, you
need to look at the entire bodyand the lifestyle that goes
along with it, and mental healthis no different, right?
So when I was traditionallytrained, it was you listen to
their symptoms and then this ishow you treat it with therapy
and meds.
But there's so much more to itthan that, right?
(01:41):
So what if somebody's bloodsugar is all over the place and
that's creating moodiness?
What if somebody's not sleepingwell?
There's so many other optionsto look at that you really need
to examine.
You have to look at theirentire lifestyle, and I feel
like, when I incorporate that,the clients get so much better,
so much quicker, because you'reat root cause.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right, yeah, no, actually my husband and I were
actually just talking about thatthe other day, because I
recently switched therapists.
One of the first questions sheasked me was how much vitamin D
do you get?
Because we live in an areawhere there's just like very
little sun in the winter andlike it's been very cloudy here,
and so she's like how much youknow how much sleep and how much
(02:23):
vitamin D have been you've beengetting, and I was just like,
oh, that's weird.
I'm used to people asking mewhat are your symptoms of
depression?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, I love that you asked about your vitamin D level
because again like that'simportant.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's very important.
And you also have the flip sideof that, where you know people
will try to approach you knowmedicine and therapy and things
like that with such a holisticapproach that they kind of
forget that there is.
You know there is a balancebetween the two and that there
should be a balance, absolutelyyeah, and like I've heard
(02:59):
stories of people approachingyou know cancer treatments and
things like that and trying tocure it with you know herbs and
essential oils and it's justyeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
You know, when we talk about mental health and
medications, there is a placefor them Right, especially when
you know if you're looking tochange your lifestyle in order
to get healthier and feel better.
It doesn't happen overnight.
It takes a while to starteating better, to get in a good
exercise program, to be sleepingbetter, and in the meantime
(03:36):
it's like you don't want to justsit there and suffer.
Why not, then utilize somemedication in order to help you
feel better, to make thesechanges?
It's really hard to makechanges when we're super
depressed or really anxious.
So I see it as almost like thisboost to really help you get on
your path and then see okay, doI need this or have I been able
(04:00):
to kind of fix it without that?
And if you still need it, thenyou still need it, and there's
no shame in that.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right and I feel like within certain circles too,
there's like this huge.
There is a lot of shame togetting mental health help and
to actually usingpharmaceuticals to get there to,
like you know, fix yourproblems, and to me that's very
sad because you know likethey're a very useful tool,
(04:27):
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And you know it's not like it's a quick fix.
It's not like you're going togo on meds and feel 100% better
and okay, everything is done.
You still have to do the work.
You still have to do the workto feel better.
So you know I don't.
It always pains me when I hearsomebody say well, I don't want
to take the easy way, it's noteasy.
Going on medication is not easy,making lifestyle changes is not
(04:50):
easy.
None of this is easy, and Ifeel it's so important to remove
the aspect of shame.
Remove the aspect of shame fromgetting mental health, you know
treatment, from being onmedication, from making you know
smart lifestyle changes.
There's just no shame in any ofthis.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, yes, and it's again, again.
It's very sad that people seethat as as shameful and as
almost like weak.
I had a.
I had a friend who who she washaving some depressive episodes
and so she went to see atherapist and I think the
(05:28):
appointment lasted 15, 20minutes and she came out with a
prescription for some kind ofanti-anxiety medication and she
was ashamed of it and I was justlike that is that is so sad.
I mean this.
This girl could hardly get outof bed.
She was really struggling andthey helped her a lot, but she
(05:52):
was so ashamed of taking thembecause of the stigma that was
in like our friend circle,mainly because of the stigma
that was around you know beingdepressed and you know having to
go to therapy or whatever thething was.
She wouldn't tell anybody thatshe was on them, but she was
like, obviously acting different.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Right.
But she wouldn't she wouldn'ttell people Interesting Choosing
to take care of yourself,choosing to take care of your
mental health.
It's a scary choice and it's abrave choice.
It is so much easier to kind ofjust hide in your bed and say
forget it, I can't, I don't wantto, I don't want to try, I
don't want to attempt to getmyself help, to be able to put
(06:34):
one foot in front of the next,to make that phone call for help
.
That is being brave, that isdoing something.
That is hard.
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It is very hard.
It is so hard Like I rememberwhen I made that first phone
call it took me like threemonths to actually make the
phone call, the number saved inmy phone to call the clinic, and
I would not call them because Ididn't want to talk about what
was going on.
I was just like you know, it'stotally fine, I'll get over it.
One day I'll wake up and I'lltotally snapped out of it.
(07:02):
It'll be fine, it'll be cool.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Right, that's what so many people say it's totally
fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's okay that it's not fine yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Like we're not supposed to be fine.
All the time Life happens,things happen to us, and like
people seem to forget thatbecause they're stuck in this
cycle of I'm fine, I'm totallyfine, I got this, I don't need
help.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And it goes back to a bigger issue as well being able
to ask for help.
Just in general everyday life,it is okay to ask for help.
It is okay to say, hey, can youpick up my kids?
Hey, I need help around thehouse.
Hey, it is okay to ask for help.
We are not supposed to be ableto do it all on our own.
(07:51):
We are supposed to have avillage.
That is what helps.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I actually touched on that a couple of episodes ago
on this podcast.
I actually touched on that withanother guest about the fact
that there is not a villageanymore and so the mental health
crisis has become bigger.
Yes, because there is novillage, there is no foundation
for people to fall back on whenthey actually do need help, and
so they struggle even more andso they become more independent
(08:20):
and more I'm fine, I got thisand they really don't.
And then that filters down toaffect our children and our
relationships, our spouses andeverything like that, and it
just has an absolute snowballeffect.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yes, it really does.
It's interesting, when we talkabout asking for help and in any
aspect of life, the kids that Iwork with so often they'll say
well, my parents do it all Likethey don't get help.
And then we talk about and whatare you seeing?
Well, I'm seeing they'refrustrated.
I'm seeing they have nopatients.
I'm seeing they're not happy,right, because we have to ask
(08:55):
for help.
We can't do it all on our own.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, and I mean, if you don't have that village,
then I feel like therapy or justeven having someone to talk to,
even if it's not traditionaltherapy, even just having
someone to talk to, can be sobeneficial Because, again,
everyday life stressors,especially in today's modern
society, really wear a persondown and we need that, we need
(09:19):
that support, but we don't getit.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Even just getting from somebody else like oh, I
understand, I understand.
What you're going through is soimportant.
I was giving a talk at a highschool for parents recently and
a parent very bravely sharedshe's like we're falling apart
in my house in terms of mentalhealth.
She's like it's a mess.
And a woman from the back saidwait, you live down the street
(09:41):
from me.
I thought you had it alltogether.
I thought that you were judgingme and hearing me upset with my
kids.
And she's like no, and I took astep back.
I said nobody has it alltogether Nobody.
And that's why we need to be OKwith getting help and removing
that shame from it.
And not having it together isnot a flaw, it's just because
(10:02):
we're human.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Right, and I feel like I actually was.
This was again.
My husband and I talk a lotabout mental health and the lack
of support for families andthings like that, so we were
actually talking about how it'salmost I mean, I don't want to
say it's a conspiracy, but italmost feels like a conspiracy
(10:25):
sometimes where you have thissystem that isolates families
and then you have the way ourfood industry and everything is
set up as well, which furtherbreaks down our bodies and
affects our mental health andeverything, and so it's very
difficult for people to even usethe everyday things around them
(10:46):
, like food and herbs andvitamins and things like that,
when they're so degraded andbroken down like they can't
utilize the tools that theyshould be able to utilize.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, that brings up such an important aspect of
mental health.
When we talk about holisticapproaches, food, yeah, I mean
most of the food that is in oursupermarkets is not real food.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Well, and even the organic labels.
Like I have started to have toread the organic labels because,
even though it says organic onit, they will still sneak stuff
in because the FDA and the USDAdo allow certain ingredients
within organic products, and soI'm having to even read the
labels on organic productssometimes because I'm just like
(11:33):
this is not, this is unhealthyRight, and that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Oh it's so exhausting .
You really have to go to thesupermarket and read every label
and this intense meal prep andeveryone's schedules are all
over the place.
It's not easy, but when we talkabout mental health, especially
like so many of our chemicalsare actually made in our gut
like we need to be eating well,we need nutrients unless we are
(12:00):
not going to feel well.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, like over the last couple of months, my
husband has been gone a lot andhe didn't sleep very well
because his work schedule isanything from like 16 to 20
hours a day, so he wasn'tsleeping very well, he wasn't
always eating very well, and soover the last three months he
started experiencing serious gutproblems, gut health problems
(12:26):
and just feeling worn down andtired and depressed and all of
these symptoms and at first Iwas just like he needs to come
home.
But then I was just like, well,yeah, he needs to come home.
Obviously no-transcript hissleep and you know vitamin D and
the lack of good food and youknow he hasn't been taking all
(12:50):
of these.
Like he takes a lot of likeherbal supplements and stuff
like that that really helped andhe hasn't been taking any of
those.
And it was just like it wassuch a striking difference from
when he left, when he came home,because he hadn't been taking
them for this band of like sixmonths and that was it and his
entire body had just completelybroken down from the lack of
good food and like vitamins andproper nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, like our body needs this good stuff in order
to properly, especially when wetalk about mental health and you
bring up gut issues.
So many people are experiencinggut issues and again it's like
it goes back to oh, it's fine,it's just me.
Like it's just who I am.
No, it's not.
There's a problem.
Please address it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, yes.
I know and like I mean, it'sfunny too because, like you know
, even, even like, every systemin our body is connected.
So what effects?
You know what effects our, ourgut or our heart, health or
something like that could oftenaffect.
You know systems in our brainand systems in our lungs and you
(13:52):
know our, our what's the wordI'm looking for?
Like our nervous system andthings like that, and so, and
people forget that, yes, theyforget that and so, like, when
you fix one problem is amazingto see the difference in another
system of your body justbecause you fix one part.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yes, it really is, because people forget that it's
all connected, you're right,especially the mind.
Your mind is connected to yourentire body.
Yes, it's so important tounderstand that.
I recognize it and you knowwhen we talk about food.
The other really important areathat I want to touch on is
hydration.
Water consumption is sooverlooked and so important.
(14:38):
No, we are seeing studiesstarting to come out that are
showing like if you're nothydrated, not only can your
cells not function and yourphysical health goes down, but
also like you could be angry.
It could lead to anger, itcould lead to lack of focus.
All that's really important toknow.
Yeah, yeah, you know it couldbe as simple as just drink a few
(15:01):
more glasses of water a day,but again, you know, when you
look at what people are drinkingon a daily basis, not a lot of
people are really drinking water.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
No, it's just sports drinks and use and sodas and
things that actually dehydrateour bodies.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
They dehydrate our bodies and they are not good for
our guts.
They spike our blood sugar.
You know, we look at teens andwe're like, oh, they're so moody
.
Are they just so moody, or howmuch of this is because of their
lifestyle of a horrendous notbeing hydrated and lack of sleep
?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I mean, like we talk about food and hydration for
teenagers.
I mean they have vendingmachines in every high school,
yes, yeah, and they get to sitright there.
I mean they eat that stuff allday long and they have easy,
ready access to it.
And then we wonder why.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right, why they're crashing every day, why all the
time they can't focus, whythey're moody, why they're upset
, because their blood sugars areup and down all day long.
And what's exciting is thatit's, you know, been recently
that more and more research isreally coming into play with how
our body and our health impactsour mind.
So I'm kind of trying to getsome time and it's, you know,
(16:15):
what I've written books aboutand it's what I practice and you
know, talk about.
But it's so nice to actuallysee the research that says yes,
yes blood sugar is an issue.
Yes, our mental health.
I feel so vindicated right now.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Water really is important.
I knew it, yes, yes.
So there was something Iactually wanted to talk about
was you know, people also have ahard time being able to weigh
the pros and cons of a treatmentwithout being prejudiced.
So you know the people that aremore naturally minded or that
(16:58):
that have, you know, certainreligious beliefs or things like
that they.
There seems to be a trend ofpeople discounting certain
treatments because they're notnatural, and I mean I recently
heard of someone who actuallydenied cancer treatments because
(17:19):
he'd heard about taking THCinstead, and while I believe
that THC can be very helpful anddoes have its place like
denying actual cancer treatmentsbecause you read on the
internet that THC is better it'sjust like it's so dangerous.
It's so dangerous.
People have developed thismentality that modern medicine
(17:45):
is evil and it's out to get you,and so I have to stick to
everything herbal and everythingnatural.
So they're denying life-savingtreatments and things like that
and it's really sad and it'sreally scary.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's hard because with anything in life there
needs to be a balance Right.
It's no different, I think,when you talk about the people
who have gone really to one side.
It's unheard of Unfortunatelybeen, because not all the
research has been truthfulcoming out of the medical
community We've seen that as anissue but also not all the
(18:19):
research coming out of the moreholistic area isn't truthful
either.
So it's kind of things likewhat are you consuming on the
internet and what are youconsuming to kind of form your
opinions, and I think it'sreally important to look
critically at both ends.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, and I actually had experience with
that myself just a couple ofdays ago.
So my son has genetically.
He has very soft enamel on histeeth and so he has problems
with cavities and decay andstuff.
He's still a toddler, so it'sbeen a rough ride the last
(18:54):
couple of years trying to justkeep his teeth in his head.
And a couple of years ago we dida bunch of research on fluoride
because everybody again therewas this huge thing on the
internet a couple of years agowhere Florida is evil, florida
is out to get you.
It's been banned in all thesecountries and so I did some
research on it and I was justlike okay, we're not doing
(19:17):
fluoride, we're not doingfluoride.
So we're like I got rid of allour fluoride toothpaste and I
replaced it with fluoride freeand we started denying all
fluoride treatments at thedentist.
And then this last appointment,the doctor looked at me and
he's like you really need to dofluoride, like you really need
to do it, you need to look intoit again, do some more research.
(19:38):
So I did, I did more researchand I was actually looking into
it and like I feel like thewebsites I looked on when I did
my first batch of research hadreally kind of just tried to
scare monger me into not doingfluoride and talked about how
(20:00):
osteoporosis and it's beenbanned in China and it's been
banned in the UK or whatevercountries in Europe, and all
this because it breaks down ourbones and it's poisonous, and
they'd almost made it out toseem like a chemical byproduct,
waste product.
(20:22):
And so when I startedresearching, I actually came
across a couple of articles thatsaid it was a naturally
occurring mineral you could findall throughout nature and that
the only times it becamedangerous was because when we
had basically a system overloadof fluoride within our bodies,
and that's when it becamedangerous.
And so like the fact that it'swithin like our water and like
(20:44):
some of our food and our youknow, our toothpaste and a bunch
of our health care products andstuff like that, that's when it
became dangerous.
And so like I was just like, ohwell, that makes much more
sense.
And so like, because I did allthat research, I was like, okay,
so I can find ways to kind ofmitigate the overload of the
(21:04):
fluoride within my son's bodyand within my body and, you know
, maybe we can do use fluorideto actually help his teeth,
right, I think that goes back to, like you know, being able to
strike a balance.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, because you know the research on fluoride
based upon applied topically oringested is very different.
Yes, and you know, ingested itis a no neurotoxin, and applied
there is some benefit.
So I think it comes back againto striking more of a balance of
what do you individually need.
You know, some people justhappen to have great teeth.
(21:39):
They may not choose to putfluoride on, and that's
perfectly fine.
Other people may reallystruggle with their teeth and
then that may be the rightchoice for them, and that's
perfectly fine.
So, again, I think it goes backto you know, what does your
individual body need?
Yeah, and no cream, regardlessof what you're picking.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, and, like in his case, his individual body
needed topically appliedfluoride.
And I was like so caught up inall this research that said you
know, ingested fluoride, withouteven really talking about the
topically applied stuff, theingested fluoride was, you know
so dangerous and basically wewere poisoning ourselves and it
crosses the blood brain barrierand everything else that they
(22:20):
were.
I freaked out and I was like nofluoride.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
No.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And again, they hadn't really gone into the
differences between the two.
And so yeah, and I'm hoping itdidn't affect his teeth, but
we'll see.
I mean, at this point I'm justlike you know I can't make it
things any worse, so forget it.
But yeah, like yeah.
(22:44):
There has to be a balance.
People need to do like, right.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
What?
Anything with life, there hasto be a balance, yeah, and so
the balance literally issomething all bad or all good,
yes, there's a lot of in between.
There's a lot of gray area witheverything in our life.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yes, exactly, and so, yeah, you need to like.
I feel like you need to go intoevery medical situation, not
automatically discounting onetreatment over the other because
of that.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
You need to own research andpull in.
You know everything on bothsides and also then decide what
is best for you and what makesthe most sense for you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, for you and your body.
I mean because, like I mean, ina lot of cases, you do know
your body best.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Absolutely.
So yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, and that kind of actually leads into like the
next thing I want to talk aboutwas, like the symptomatic
approach to illness that youknow our current healthcare
model really seems to take andthe fact that you know there's
just so many band-aid solutions.
Yes, in medicine and within our, like our healthcare and our
(23:52):
mental healthcare especially,there's just like so many
band-aid solutions and nobodyever seems to get to the root of
the problem and, like, I havemy own opinions on why they
don't get to the root of theproblem, but you know we can
talk about that in anotherepisode.
But yeah, they only seem totreat the symptoms and there's
(24:12):
like no, there's no effort orwork to get to the root of a
problem.
So people continually they keepgetting sick Absolutely.
And like you, see that a lot inmental healthcare.
You know again my friend, shewent into an appointment and she
was only, it was only a15-minute appointment.
She walked out with, you know,a prescription for an
anti-exaggeration.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Right and I think that's unfortunately incredibly
common yes, that people aregoing to either their primary
care doctor or a psychiatristand they're getting a script
within minutes and no talk aboutare you seeing a therapist?
What is your plan to work onthis?
Like, what else is going on inyour life?
And I think that's when we talkabout, you know, some people
kind of mistrusting the system.
(24:53):
It's because of stuff like thatthat they're seeing, where
they're just kind of given pillsand no bigger solution and no
root cause is being investigated, and that's not the way to go
about doing this.
Like we need to be lookingfurther.
We can't just constantly throwmedication without anything else
happening.
Medication, you know when itworks.
Its best is in, you know, handin hand with lifestyle changes
(25:17):
or therapy.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right, right.
And, like you know, when I,when I scheduled one of my first
appointments for therapy, likeI couldn't help thinking I was
like you know, if I had gone tomy PCP and talked to them and be
like you know, I don't feel sogreat, I'm really depressed and
I'm having a hard time gettingout of bed every day.
The first thing they would havedone is, you know, write me a
prescription for some kind ofanti-depressive or anti-anxiety
med.
(25:39):
And I'm like, and I would be onthose meds right now and who
knows what they would be doingin my body.
It wouldn't be fixing myproblems because I would still
be depressed, I would still havelike overwhelming anxiety, I
would still have all of thistrauma I hadn't worked through.
So, like I'm just like I'mreally glad now that I actually
(26:00):
like called the therapistinstead and was like, hey, right
, I want to fix this.
I think this is what's causingit.
And, yeah, like I didn't, Ifortunately didn't have to
experience that band-aidapproach that so many people in
society seem to have toexperience and like, yeah, I've
(26:22):
seen some of my friends go onthem when I was younger and it
was like this snowball effect ofside effects and then you know
more meds for the side effectsand it would just get worse and
the problem would compound, andit was.
It was just so sad just to seethem change so fast.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Absolutely, it's you know.
And again it brings into thisbig issue, like when you look at
, you know what we're evenconsuming on TV, like all the
ads like, oh, you have a sleepproblem, take this med, and
that's you know.
It can't be just that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, actually all the TV.
That's funny that you bring upthe TV ads because, like, I'm
constantly seeing them.
It's like I feel like it's likefive out of ten, a good 50% of
the ads on like TV and YouTubeand they're all you know.
Here's a new med.
Ask your doctor about that Ifyou're experiencing such and
(27:21):
such, and I'm just like.
That is just so strange to me.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Right, and other countries don't actually allow
ads for these pharmaceuticals.
Where you know we're one of thefew.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, it's just so.
It's just so weird like I, likewhen you actually stop and
think about a patient being likehey, I heard about a new med, I
want to take it, go and, likeyou know, going and asking your
doctor Please write me aprescription.
I saw an ad on TV.
I guess just so strange whenyou say it out loud.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Absolutely.
You know, if you're going intoa doctor's office and there's
stuff going on, the doctor couldthen assess and say, okay, I
think maybe you need, you know,x, y or.
Z yes but to be learning aboutit off.
You know a 20 minute or 20second, you know, add on TV and
then thinking that's the rightchoice.
I think you know we need tohave a bigger conversation.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Pharmaceutical companies really do run the
medical industry in some casesyes, absolutely.
No and so like, and it's justlike you know situations like
that where there's just like somany band-aid solutions just
thrown at us 24-7 all the timeit it really just goes to show
(28:31):
that we need to be treating thewhole person.
It's not always one problem.
There's always it's littleproblems feeding into one
problem.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We have to treat the whole person within healthcare
and when within mental health,especially to yes, and I really
do think we're starting to see ashift more towards that, slowly
but surely, which is, you know,fantastic and much needed
Because, again, like we're kindof in a mental health crisis
right now, it's pretty bad outthere in terms of mental health.
(29:01):
People are really Suffering andI think what they're seeing is
that the old way is not reallysuccessful.
We need to take a bigger lookat this and we really need to
Combine a healthy lifestyle youknow, good supplements and, if
medications needed, medication,but it's a combination approach.
We need to be treating ourbodies better.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, I mean like, and medication shouldn't be, you
know, the end goal here'smedication, this will fix your
problem, like, I feel likemedication should be a tool to
get us To our, you know, adesired result of, you know,
actually being healed, but Ifeel like so often people just
use it as the end goal.
Oh, I'm taking him.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You know, I'm taking a med, I'm fixed right, yeah, no
, any part of the treatment plan, but not the entire treatment
plan.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so no, I feel like that's that's
definitely something that thatneeds to be addressed in in
modern healthcare too, becauseI've actually had experience
with that myself, with withcertain problems within
pregnancy, where they, would youknow, try to push meds For a
problem that I was having and Iwas just like, well, is it gonna
(30:09):
fix it?
They're like, oh no, it's notgonna fix it, it'll just help
you feel better, right?
I'm just like um.
I don't like that.
I don't like that approach, Idon't like that idea.
Yeah, I actually had to go toan atropath and they were able
to help a lot more, and that wasit was really nice.
It was really nice being ableto actually fix the problem and
(30:30):
like actually see resultsinstead of just, you know, a
bandaid.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yes, I think a lot of people have had those similar
experiences.
I know I have.
You know, years ago I had somereally bad stomach issues and I
went to a doctor and they'relike, oh you have, you know, ibs
and here's some meds.
I'm like, but why do I have?
Why do?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I yes.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I don't know.
It's just, you know it is whatit is.
And here's the medication.
And instead of going on it, Iactually changed what I was
eating and saw a world ofdifference and have never
suffered since.
And you know, and that workedfor me and that was great.
But I think that we always kindof need to take a step back and
say, yeah, what is the rootcause?
What else is going on?
Even just a few years ago, Ihad massive tooth pain and my
(31:12):
dentist is like, oh, just go seethe specialist.
And I walked in, I was therefor not even five minutes and
she's like you need a root canal.
And I was like, well, are wepositive?
And she's like, yeah.
And I went to another doctorfor a second opinion.
He's like I think your sinusesare just really congested and
it's putting pressure on.
And I went to acupuncture toclear up my sinuses and
absolutely that's what it was.
(31:34):
I do not root canal, it wassinus pressure.
And I've noticed now that Iactually get that sinus pressure
at the same time every yearbecause I have some type of
outdoor allergy.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh, my goodness, so they would have drilled out your
tooth?
Yep, oh my gosh, that is insane, and I got that.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That happens every day, right, but a lot of people
maybe don't.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Oh, my gosh.
So, yeah, just you know,treating the symptoms of illness
and Like you were having toothpain, but it wasn't like you
know.
And then that kind of that kindof ties into like you know, the
whole.
When you have symptoms in onepart of your body, it could be,
(32:24):
you know, like when you haveillness in like your heart or
something like that.
I've heard of cases where itcan present as abdominal pain.
Yes, and so you know it wasmodern medicine.
They would automatically justfocus on the stomach area and
completely forget about the restof the body, when in fact it
(32:47):
wasn't your stomach at all, itwas your heart, or, in your case
, it wasn't your teeth, it wasyour sinuses and allergies.
Well, connected.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, and when we talk about you know, especially kids
, when it looks like they have,you know, an attention issue in
the classroom, is it anattention issue?
Or are they not having enoughprotein?
Is there blood sugar all overthe place?
Are they not hydrated?
Like we need to look at thesethings?
Are they not getting enoughexercise and they just have too
much energy Like?
Are they not being mentally?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
stimulated enough on a daily basis.
You can take these kids, thesepoor kids, and you stick them in
a classroom for eight hours aday and then you wonder why they
have, you know, attentiondeficit issues or whatever.
And yeah, like kids, young kidsare not meant to be put in one
place for eight hours a day withno kind of physical stimulation
at all.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, school is very different now than it used to be
, and it is very challenging andI know for myself.
There's no way I could sit in aschool all day long.
I think back to what I wasthinking.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I think back to what I was like when I was in school
and I was just like, oh my gosh,it was eight hours a day, yeah,
private school.
We would have 15 minuterecesses every four hours and I
was like six, seven years old,being forced to sit at this tiny
little desk and do my math orwhatever, and I'm just like, oh
my gosh, how did I survive?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Right, because you know that's not how we're made
to be.
Little kids are not meant tosit that long.
That doesn't mean that theyhave a problem.
It means our system has aproblem.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Exactly and like, and then it affects them mentally
and then, you know, kids, theyget depressed from that lack of
physical stimulation and thelack of you know like moving
movements helps our mentalhealth.
Yes, I mean.
That's why mental healthproviders will tell you exercise
and there's a reason for that.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
There are some great studies on exercise, comparing
exercise alone toantidepressants, and exercise
did better.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes, yes.
And so then you wonder you know, these kids, from the time
they're five years old untilthey graduate high school, have
such a lack of movement withintheir bodies, and then we wonder
why there's such a huge mentalhealth crisis.
Right, and so we're just tryingto figure out how to get this
junk food, lack of exercise, allof these things that are
feeding into this, this mentalhealth crisis within our kids,
(35:12):
and we're just perpetuating thesystem yes, like we built the
system that created this problem.
And then we're sitting therewondering, huh, how did this
happen?
I don't understand what's goingon.
It's like we did it, we createdit.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
We did.
We were thinking why don't wejust continue to throw more and
more money at it through theschools either?
You gotta get back down to thefoundations.
These kids there's way too muchpressure.
They need weekends off fromhomework, at a bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, you know you need to get back down to basics,
yeah, yeah, and you know I, andalso I feel like mental health
care also starts at a very youngage too.
Making it a practice to taketheir kids to a therapist like
every two weeks, once a month,just to kind of build that
foundation of mental health, isnot something to be scared of
(36:04):
and it's okay to struggle Like Iunderstand and so like, and I
feel like that's very healthy,like talk about what's going on
and like I try to encourage evenmy four year old to talk about
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yes, and it's just like if you're struggling in
school, you get a tutor.
Yeah, life also is a struggleat times and we need to know how
to navigate and we need theskills to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, and if parents are feeling overwhelmed and
don't know how to cope with achild that is having struggles
and having problems, and thenit's fine to ask for help, that
doesn't make you a bad parent.
It actually makes you a goodparent, a strong parent.
Recognizing that I don't havethe skills or the tools to help
my kid, let me go get somebodythat can.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
It makes you a great parent to be able to recognize
that and to be able to put yourown ego aside, and so I need to
bring in help.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yes, yes, and you know, and I think that more
parents should do that and notbe scared of it, and should
actively try to break away fromthis model that we've built
around mental health care andaround our kids of you know, I
got this, I'm strong, I don'tneed any help, because you know
it does directly feed into ourkids, Even if it's like a
(37:21):
subconscious thing.
They see what we're doing andthey mimic everything we do and
so they're gonna see how wetreat mental health and they're
gonna take that on and they'regonna grow up the same way and
the problem is just gonna it'sjust gonna perpetuate and get
worse.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So yes, parents are definitely leading by example.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, so Well, this was an amazing conversation.
There was a lot of greatinformation here, so thank you
very much.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Curious.
Thank you so much.
It was such a great talk.
I really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of All Our
Little Messes.
Please let us know how much youenjoyed it below and add any
questions you have about thisepisode.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Patreon for amazing
exclusive perks, including earlyaccess to podcast episodes and
bonus episodes every month.
(38:18):
We've also recently added asupport group for all of our
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You can check us out onFacebook and Instagram for daily
updates and insights thatmirror podcast topics.
Thank you for listening andwe'll see you next week.
Hello and welcome to All Our Little Messes, a podcast
focused on healing throughintentional conversations about
parenting, relationships,religion and more.
I am your host, veronica Winrod, and I'm so happy to have you
here listening in on my thoughtstoday.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Hello, welcome back to All OurLittle Messes.
(00:36):
Today we're discussing holisticor natural healing within the
world of Western medicine andwhether there can be a balance
between the two within theculture of pharmaceuticals.
So this is a very nuanced topic.
So I have a guest for you guysthat utilizes this balanced
approach within her practice.
She's a holisticpsychotherapist with over 20
(00:58):
years of experience in the field.
Hi Curie, it's great to haveyou on today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yes, it's been great.
I'm really excited to talkabout your experience with
Western medicine and within yourpractice, because I know you
tried to approach therapy with aholistic approach to the entire
body and stuff.
So what can you tell me aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I do.
I really think that wheneverwe're addressing anything, you
need to look at the entire bodyand the lifestyle that goes
along with it, and mental healthis no different, right?
So when I was traditionallytrained, it was you listen to
their symptoms and then this ishow you treat it with therapy
and meds.
But there's so much more to itthan that, right?
(01:41):
So what if somebody's bloodsugar is all over the place and
that's creating moodiness?
What if somebody's not sleepingwell?
There's so many other optionsto look at that you really need
to examine.
You have to look at theirentire lifestyle, and I feel
like, when I incorporate that,the clients get so much better,
so much quicker, because you'reat root cause.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right, yeah, no, actually my husband and I were
actually just talking about thatthe other day, because I
recently switched therapists.
One of the first questions sheasked me was how much vitamin D
do you get?
Because we live in an areawhere there's just like very
little sun in the winter andlike it's been very cloudy here,
and so she's like how much youknow how much sleep and how much
(02:23):
vitamin D have been you've beengetting, and I was just like,
oh, that's weird.
I'm used to people asking mewhat are your symptoms of
depression?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, I love that you asked about your vitamin D level
because again like that'simportant.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's very important.
And you also have the flip sideof that, where you know people
will try to approach you knowmedicine and therapy and things
like that with such a holisticapproach that they kind of
forget that there is.
You know there is a balancebetween the two and that there
should be a balance, absolutelyyeah, and like I've heard
(02:59):
stories of people approachingyou know cancer treatments and
things like that and trying tocure it with you know herbs and
essential oils and it's justyeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
You know, when we talk about mental health and
medications, there is a placefor them Right, especially when
you know if you're looking tochange your lifestyle in order
to get healthier and feel better.
It doesn't happen overnight.
It takes a while to starteating better, to get in a good
exercise program, to be sleepingbetter, and in the meantime
(03:36):
it's like you don't want to justsit there and suffer.
Why not, then utilize somemedication in order to help you
feel better, to make thesechanges?
It's really hard to makechanges when we're super
depressed or really anxious.
So I see it as almost like thisboost to really help you get on
your path and then see okay, doI need this or have I been able
(04:00):
to kind of fix it without that?
And if you still need it, thenyou still need it, and there's
no shame in that.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right and I feel like within certain circles too,
there's like this huge.
There is a lot of shame togetting mental health help and
to actually usingpharmaceuticals to get there to,
like you know, fix yourproblems, and to me that's very
sad because you know likethey're a very useful tool,
(04:27):
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And you know it's not like it's a quick fix.
It's not like you're going togo on meds and feel 100% better
and okay, everything is done.
You still have to do the work.
You still have to do the workto feel better.
So you know I don't.
It always pains me when I hearsomebody say well, I don't want
to take the easy way, it's noteasy.
Going on medication is not easy,making lifestyle changes is not
(04:50):
easy.
None of this is easy, and Ifeel it's so important to remove
the aspect of shame.
Remove the aspect of shame fromgetting mental health, you know
treatment, from being onmedication, from making you know
smart lifestyle changes.
There's just no shame in any ofthis.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, yes, and it's again, again.
It's very sad that people seethat as as shameful and as
almost like weak.
I had a.
I had a friend who who she washaving some depressive episodes
and so she went to see atherapist and I think the
(05:28):
appointment lasted 15, 20minutes and she came out with a
prescription for some kind ofanti-anxiety medication and she
was ashamed of it and I was justlike that is that is so sad.
I mean this.
This girl could hardly get outof bed.
She was really struggling andthey helped her a lot, but she
(05:52):
was so ashamed of taking thembecause of the stigma that was
in like our friend circle,mainly because of the stigma
that was around you know beingdepressed and you know having to
go to therapy or whatever thething was.
She wouldn't tell anybody thatshe was on them, but she was
like, obviously acting different.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Right.
But she wouldn't she wouldn'ttell people Interesting Choosing
to take care of yourself,choosing to take care of your
mental health.
It's a scary choice and it's abrave choice.
It is so much easier to kind ofjust hide in your bed and say
forget it, I can't, I don't wantto, I don't want to try, I
don't want to attempt to getmyself help, to be able to put
(06:34):
one foot in front of the next,to make that phone call for help
.
That is being brave, that isdoing something.
That is hard.
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It is very hard.
It is so hard Like I rememberwhen I made that first phone
call it took me like threemonths to actually make the
phone call, the number saved inmy phone to call the clinic, and
I would not call them because Ididn't want to talk about what
was going on.
I was just like you know, it'stotally fine, I'll get over it.
One day I'll wake up and I'lltotally snapped out of it.
(07:02):
It'll be fine, it'll be cool.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Right, that's what so many people say it's totally
fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's okay that it's not fine yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Like we're not supposed to be fine.
All the time Life happens,things happen to us, and like
people seem to forget thatbecause they're stuck in this
cycle of I'm fine, I'm totallyfine, I got this, I don't need
help.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And it goes back to a bigger issue as well being able
to ask for help.
Just in general everyday life,it is okay to ask for help.
It is okay to say, hey, can youpick up my kids?
Hey, I need help around thehouse.
Hey, it is okay to ask for help.
We are not supposed to be ableto do it all on our own.
(07:51):
We are supposed to have avillage.
That is what helps.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I actually touched on that a couple of episodes ago
on this podcast.
I actually touched on that withanother guest about the fact
that there is not a villageanymore and so the mental health
crisis has become bigger.
Yes, because there is novillage, there is no foundation
for people to fall back on whenthey actually do need help, and
so they struggle even more andso they become more independent
(08:20):
and more I'm fine, I got thisand they really don't.
And then that filters down toaffect our children and our
relationships, our spouses andeverything like that, and it
just has an absolute snowballeffect.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yes, it really does.
It's interesting, when we talkabout asking for help and in any
aspect of life, the kids that Iwork with so often they'll say
well, my parents do it all Likethey don't get help.
And then we talk about and whatare you seeing?
Well, I'm seeing they'refrustrated.
I'm seeing they have nopatients.
I'm seeing they're not happy,right, because we have to ask
(08:55):
for help.
We can't do it all on our own.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, and I mean, if you don't have that village,
then I feel like therapy or justeven having someone to talk to,
even if it's not traditionaltherapy, even just having
someone to talk to, can be sobeneficial Because, again,
everyday life stressors,especially in today's modern
society, really wear a persondown and we need that, we need
(09:19):
that support, but we don't getit.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Even just getting from somebody else like oh, I
understand, I understand.
What you're going through is soimportant.
I was giving a talk at a highschool for parents recently and
a parent very bravely sharedshe's like we're falling apart
in my house in terms of mentalhealth.
She's like it's a mess.
And a woman from the back saidwait, you live down the street
(09:41):
from me.
I thought you had it alltogether.
I thought that you were judgingme and hearing me upset with my
kids.
And she's like no, and I took astep back.
I said nobody has it alltogether Nobody.
And that's why we need to be OKwith getting help and removing
that shame from it.
And not having it together isnot a flaw, it's just because
(10:02):
we're human.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Right, and I feel like I actually was.
This was again.
My husband and I talk a lotabout mental health and the lack
of support for families andthings like that, so we were
actually talking about how it'salmost I mean, I don't want to
say it's a conspiracy, but italmost feels like a conspiracy
(10:25):
sometimes where you have thissystem that isolates families
and then you have the way ourfood industry and everything is
set up as well, which furtherbreaks down our bodies and
affects our mental health andeverything, and so it's very
difficult for people to even usethe everyday things around them
(10:46):
, like food and herbs andvitamins and things like that,
when they're so degraded andbroken down like they can't
utilize the tools that theyshould be able to utilize.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, that brings up such an important aspect of
mental health.
When we talk about holisticapproaches, food, yeah, I mean
most of the food that is in oursupermarkets is not real food.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Well, and even the organic labels.
Like I have started to have toread the organic labels because,
even though it says organic onit, they will still sneak stuff
in because the FDA and the USDAdo allow certain ingredients
within organic products, and soI'm having to even read the
labels on organic productssometimes because I'm just like
(11:33):
this is not, this is unhealthyRight, and that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Oh it's so exhausting .
You really have to go to thesupermarket and read every label
and this intense meal prep andeveryone's schedules are all
over the place.
It's not easy, but when we talkabout mental health, especially
like so many of our chemicalsare actually made in our gut
like we need to be eating well,we need nutrients unless we are
(12:00):
not going to feel well.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, like over the last couple of months, my
husband has been gone a lot andhe didn't sleep very well
because his work schedule isanything from like 16 to 20
hours a day, so he wasn'tsleeping very well, he wasn't
always eating very well, and soover the last three months he
started experiencing serious gutproblems, gut health problems
(12:26):
and just feeling worn down andtired and depressed and all of
these symptoms and at first Iwas just like he needs to come
home.
But then I was just like, well,yeah, he needs to come home.
Obviously no-transcript hissleep and you know vitamin D and
the lack of good food and youknow he hasn't been taking all
(12:50):
of these.
Like he takes a lot of likeherbal supplements and stuff
like that that really helped andhe hasn't been taking any of
those.
And it was just like it wassuch a striking difference from
when he left, when he came home,because he hadn't been taking
them for this band of like sixmonths and that was it and his
entire body had just completelybroken down from the lack of
good food and like vitamins andproper nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, like our body needs this good stuff in order
to properly, especially when wetalk about mental health and you
bring up gut issues.
So many people are experiencinggut issues and again it's like
it goes back to oh, it's fine,it's just me.
Like it's just who I am.
No, it's not.
There's a problem.
Please address it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, yes.
I know and like I mean, it'sfunny too because, like you know
, even, even like, every systemin our body is connected.
So what effects?
You know what effects our, ourgut or our heart, health or
something like that could oftenaffect.
You know systems in our brainand systems in our lungs and you
(13:52):
know our, our what's the wordI'm looking for?
Like our nervous system andthings like that, and so, and
people forget that, yes, theyforget that and so, like, when
you fix one problem is amazingto see the difference in another
system of your body justbecause you fix one part.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yes, it really is, because people forget that it's
all connected, you're right,especially the mind.
Your mind is connected to yourentire body.
Yes, it's so important tounderstand that.
I recognize it and you knowwhen we talk about food.
The other really important areathat I want to touch on is
hydration.
Water consumption is sooverlooked and so important.
(14:38):
No, we are seeing studiesstarting to come out that are
showing like if you're nothydrated, not only can your
cells not function and yourphysical health goes down, but
also like you could be angry.
It could lead to anger, itcould lead to lack of focus.
All that's really important toknow.
Yeah, yeah, you know it couldbe as simple as just drink a few
(15:01):
more glasses of water a day,but again, you know, when you
look at what people are drinkingon a daily basis, not a lot of
people are really drinking water.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
No, it's just sports drinks and use and sodas and
things that actually dehydrateour bodies.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
They dehydrate our bodies and they are not good for
our guts.
They spike our blood sugar.
You know, we look at teens andwe're like, oh, they're so moody
.
Are they just so moody, or howmuch of this is because of their
lifestyle of a horrendous notbeing hydrated and lack of sleep
?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I mean, like we talk about food and hydration for
teenagers.
I mean they have vendingmachines in every high school,
yes, yeah, and they get to sitright there.
I mean they eat that stuff allday long and they have easy,
ready access to it.
And then we wonder why.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Right, why they're crashing every day, why all the
time they can't focus, whythey're moody, why they're upset
, because their blood sugars areup and down all day long.
And what's exciting is thatit's, you know, been recently
that more and more research isreally coming into play with how
our body and our health impactsour mind.
So I'm kind of trying to getsome time and it's, you know,
(16:15):
what I've written books aboutand it's what I practice and you
know, talk about.
But it's so nice to actuallysee the research that says yes,
yes blood sugar is an issue.
Yes, our mental health.
I feel so vindicated right now.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Water really is important.
I knew it, yes, yes.
So there was something Iactually wanted to talk about
was you know, people also have ahard time being able to weigh
the pros and cons of a treatmentwithout being prejudiced.
So you know the people that aremore naturally minded or that
(16:58):
that have, you know, certainreligious beliefs or things like
that they.
There seems to be a trend ofpeople discounting certain
treatments because they're notnatural, and I mean I recently
heard of someone who actuallydenied cancer treatments because
(17:19):
he'd heard about taking THCinstead, and while I believe
that THC can be very helpful anddoes have its place like
denying actual cancer treatmentsbecause you read on the
internet that THC is better it'sjust like it's so dangerous.
It's so dangerous.
People have developed thismentality that modern medicine
(17:45):
is evil and it's out to get you,and so I have to stick to
everything herbal and everythingnatural.
So they're denying life-savingtreatments and things like that
and it's really sad and it'sreally scary.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's hard because with anything in life there
needs to be a balance Right.
It's no different, I think,when you talk about the people
who have gone really to one side.
It's unheard of Unfortunatelybeen, because not all the
research has been truthfulcoming out of the medical
community We've seen that as anissue but also not all the
(18:19):
research coming out of the moreholistic area isn't truthful
either.
So it's kind of things likewhat are you consuming on the
internet and what are youconsuming to kind of form your
opinions, and I think it'sreally important to look
critically at both ends.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, and I actually had experience with
that myself just a couple ofdays ago.
So my son has genetically.
He has very soft enamel on histeeth and so he has problems
with cavities and decay andstuff.
He's still a toddler, so it'sbeen a rough ride the last
(18:54):
couple of years trying to justkeep his teeth in his head.
And a couple of years ago we dida bunch of research on fluoride
because everybody again therewas this huge thing on the
internet a couple of years agowhere Florida is evil, florida
is out to get you.
It's been banned in all thesecountries and so I did some
research on it and I was justlike okay, we're not doing
(19:17):
fluoride, we're not doingfluoride.
So we're like I got rid of allour fluoride toothpaste and I
replaced it with fluoride freeand we started denying all
fluoride treatments at thedentist.
And then this last appointment,the doctor looked at me and
he's like you really need to dofluoride, like you really need
to do it, you need to look intoit again, do some more research.
(19:38):
So I did, I did more researchand I was actually looking into
it and like I feel like thewebsites I looked on when I did
my first batch of research hadreally kind of just tried to
scare monger me into not doingfluoride and talked about how
(20:00):
osteoporosis and it's beenbanned in China and it's been
banned in the UK or whatevercountries in Europe, and all
this because it breaks down ourbones and it's poisonous, and
they'd almost made it out toseem like a chemical byproduct,
waste product.
(20:22):
And so when I startedresearching, I actually came
across a couple of articles thatsaid it was a naturally
occurring mineral you could findall throughout nature and that
the only times it becamedangerous was because when we
had basically a system overloadof fluoride within our bodies,
and that's when it becamedangerous.
And so like the fact that it'swithin like our water and like
(20:44):
some of our food and our youknow, our toothpaste and a bunch
of our health care products andstuff like that, that's when it
became dangerous.
And so like I was just like, ohwell, that makes much more
sense.
And so like, because I did allthat research, I was like, okay,
so I can find ways to kind ofmitigate the overload of the
(21:04):
fluoride within my son's bodyand within my body and, you know
, maybe we can do use fluorideto actually help his teeth,
right, I think that goes back to, like you know, being able to
strike a balance.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, because you know the research on fluoride
based upon applied topically oringested is very different.
Yes, and you know, ingested itis a no neurotoxin, and applied
there is some benefit.
So I think it comes back againto striking more of a balance of
what do you individually need.
You know, some people justhappen to have great teeth.
(21:39):
They may not choose to putfluoride on, and that's
perfectly fine.
Other people may reallystruggle with their teeth and
then that may be the rightchoice for them, and that's
perfectly fine.
So, again, I think it goes backto you know, what does your
individual body need?
Yeah, and no cream, regardlessof what you're picking.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, and, like in his case, his individual body
needed topically appliedfluoride.
And I was like so caught up inall this research that said you
know, ingested fluoride, withouteven really talking about the
topically applied stuff, theingested fluoride was, you know
so dangerous and basically wewere poisoning ourselves and it
crosses the blood brain barrierand everything else that they
(22:20):
were.
I freaked out and I was like nofluoride.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
No.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And again, they hadn't really gone into the
differences between the two.
And so yeah, and I'm hoping itdidn't affect his teeth, but
we'll see.
I mean, at this point I'm justlike you know I can't make it
things any worse, so forget it.
But yeah, like yeah.
(22:44):
There has to be a balance.
People need to do like, right.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
What?
Anything with life, there hasto be a balance, yeah, and so
the balance literally issomething all bad or all good,
yes, there's a lot of in between.
There's a lot of gray area witheverything in our life.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yes, exactly, and so, yeah, you need to like.
I feel like you need to go intoevery medical situation, not
automatically discounting onetreatment over the other because
of that.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
You need to own research andpull in.
You know everything on bothsides and also then decide what
is best for you and what makesthe most sense for you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, for you and your body.
I mean because, like I mean, ina lot of cases, you do know
your body best.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Absolutely.
So yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, and that kind of actually leads into like the
next thing I want to talk aboutwas, like the symptomatic
approach to illness that youknow our current healthcare
model really seems to take andthe fact that you know there's
just so many band-aid solutions.
Yes, in medicine and within our, like our healthcare and our
(23:52):
mental healthcare especially,there's just like so many
band-aid solutions and nobodyever seems to get to the root of
the problem and, like, I havemy own opinions on why they
don't get to the root of theproblem, but you know we can
talk about that in anotherepisode.
But yeah, they only seem totreat the symptoms and there's
(24:12):
like no, there's no effort orwork to get to the root of a
problem.
So people continually they keepgetting sick Absolutely.
And like you, see that a lot inmental healthcare.
You know again my friend, shewent into an appointment and she
was only, it was only a15-minute appointment.
She walked out with, you know,a prescription for an
anti-exaggeration.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Right and I think that's unfortunately incredibly
common yes, that people aregoing to either their primary
care doctor or a psychiatristand they're getting a script
within minutes and no talk aboutare you seeing a therapist?
What is your plan to work onthis?
Like, what else is going on inyour life?
And I think that's when we talkabout, you know, some people
kind of mistrusting the system.
(24:53):
It's because of stuff like thatthat they're seeing, where
they're just kind of given pillsand no bigger solution and no
root cause is being investigated, and that's not the way to go
about doing this.
Like we need to be lookingfurther.
We can't just constantly throwmedication without anything else
happening.
Medication, you know when itworks.
Its best is in, you know, handin hand with lifestyle changes
(25:17):
or therapy.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right, right.
And, like you know, when I,when I scheduled one of my first
appointments for therapy, likeI couldn't help thinking I was
like you know, if I had gone tomy PCP and talked to them and be
like you know, I don't feel sogreat, I'm really depressed and
I'm having a hard time gettingout of bed every day.
The first thing they would havedone is, you know, write me a
prescription for some kind ofanti-depressive or anti-anxiety
med.
(25:39):
And I'm like, and I would be onthose meds right now and who
knows what they would be doingin my body.
It wouldn't be fixing myproblems because I would still
be depressed, I would still havelike overwhelming anxiety, I
would still have all of thistrauma I hadn't worked through.
So, like I'm just like I'mreally glad now that I actually
(26:00):
like called the therapistinstead and was like, hey, right
, I want to fix this.
I think this is what's causingit.
And, yeah, like I didn't, Ifortunately didn't have to
experience that band-aidapproach that so many people in
society seem to have toexperience and like, yeah, I've
(26:22):
seen some of my friends go onthem when I was younger and it
was like this snowball effect ofside effects and then you know
more meds for the side effectsand it would just get worse and
the problem would compound, andit was.
It was just so sad just to seethem change so fast.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Absolutely, it's you know.
And again it brings into thisbig issue, like when you look at
, you know what we're evenconsuming on TV, like all the
ads like, oh, you have a sleepproblem, take this med, and
that's you know.
It can't be just that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, yeah, actually all the TV.
That's funny that you bring upthe TV ads because, like, I'm
constantly seeing them.
It's like I feel like it's likefive out of ten, a good 50% of
the ads on like TV and YouTubeand they're all you know.
Here's a new med.
Ask your doctor about that Ifyou're experiencing such and
(27:21):
such, and I'm just like.
That is just so strange to me.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Right, and other countries don't actually allow
ads for these pharmaceuticals.
Where you know we're one of thefew.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, it's just so.
It's just so weird like I, likewhen you actually stop and
think about a patient being likehey, I heard about a new med, I
want to take it, go and, likeyou know, going and asking your
doctor Please write me aprescription.
I saw an ad on TV.
I guess just so strange whenyou say it out loud.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Absolutely.
You know, if you're going intoa doctor's office and there's
stuff going on, the doctor couldthen assess and say, okay, I
think maybe you need, you know,x, y or.
Z yes but to be learning aboutit off.
You know a 20 minute or 20second, you know, add on TV and
then thinking that's the rightchoice.
I think you know we need tohave a bigger conversation.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Pharmaceutical companies really do run the
medical industry in some casesyes, absolutely.
No and so like, and it's justlike you know situations like
that where there's just like somany band-aid solutions just
thrown at us 24-7 all the timeit it really just goes to show
(28:31):
that we need to be treating thewhole person.
It's not always one problem.
There's always it's littleproblems feeding into one
problem.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We have to treat the whole person within healthcare
and when within mental health,especially to yes, and I really
do think we're starting to see ashift more towards that, slowly
but surely, which is, you know,fantastic and much needed
Because, again, like we're kindof in a mental health crisis
right now, it's pretty bad outthere in terms of mental health.
(29:01):
People are really Suffering andI think what they're seeing is
that the old way is not reallysuccessful.
We need to take a bigger lookat this and we really need to
Combine a healthy lifestyle youknow, good supplements and, if
medications needed, medication,but it's a combination approach.
We need to be treating ourbodies better.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, I mean like, and medication shouldn't be, you
know, the end goal here'smedication, this will fix your
problem, like, I feel likemedication should be a tool to
get us To our, you know, adesired result of, you know,
actually being healed, but Ifeel like so often people just
use it as the end goal.
Oh, I'm taking him.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You know, I'm taking a med, I'm fixed right, yeah, no
, any part of the treatment plan, but not the entire treatment
plan.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so no, I feel like that's that's
definitely something that thatneeds to be addressed in in
modern healthcare too, becauseI've actually had experience
with that myself, with withcertain problems within
pregnancy, where they, would youknow, try to push meds For a
problem that I was having and Iwas just like, well, is it gonna
(30:09):
fix it?
They're like, oh no, it's notgonna fix it, it'll just help
you feel better, right?
I'm just like um.
I don't like that.
I don't like that approach, Idon't like that idea.
Yeah, I actually had to go toan atropath and they were able
to help a lot more, and that wasit was really nice.
It was really nice being ableto actually fix the problem and
(30:30):
like actually see resultsinstead of just, you know, a
bandaid.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yes, I think a lot of people have had those similar
experiences.
I know I have.
You know, years ago I had somereally bad stomach issues and I
went to a doctor and they'relike, oh you have, you know, ibs
and here's some meds.
I'm like, but why do I have?
Why do?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I yes.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I don't know.
It's just, you know it is whatit is.
And here's the medication.
And instead of going on it, Iactually changed what I was
eating and saw a world ofdifference and have never
suffered since.
And you know, and that workedfor me and that was great.
But I think that we always kindof need to take a step back and
say, yeah, what is the rootcause?
What else is going on?
Even just a few years ago, Ihad massive tooth pain and my
(31:12):
dentist is like, oh, just go seethe specialist.
And I walked in, I was therefor not even five minutes and
she's like you need a root canal.
And I was like, well, are wepositive?
And she's like, yeah.
And I went to another doctorfor a second opinion.
He's like I think your sinusesare just really congested and
it's putting pressure on.
And I went to acupuncture toclear up my sinuses and
absolutely that's what it was.
(31:34):
I do not root canal, it wassinus pressure.
And I've noticed now that Iactually get that sinus pressure
at the same time every yearbecause I have some type of
outdoor allergy.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh, my goodness, so they would have drilled out your
tooth?
Yep, oh my gosh, that is insane, and I got that.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That happens every day, right, but a lot of people
maybe don't.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Oh, my gosh.
So, yeah, just you know,treating the symptoms of illness
and Like you were having toothpain, but it wasn't like you
know.
And then that kind of that kindof ties into like you know, the
whole.
When you have symptoms in onepart of your body, it could be,
(32:24):
you know, like when you haveillness in like your heart or
something like that.
I've heard of cases where itcan present as abdominal pain.
Yes, and so you know it wasmodern medicine.
They would automatically justfocus on the stomach area and
completely forget about the restof the body, when in fact it
(32:47):
wasn't your stomach at all, itwas your heart, or, in your case
, it wasn't your teeth, it wasyour sinuses and allergies.
Well, connected.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, and when we talk about you know, especially kids
, when it looks like they have,you know, an attention issue in
the classroom, is it anattention issue?
Or are they not having enoughprotein?
Is there blood sugar all overthe place?
Are they not hydrated?
Like we need to look at thesethings?
Are they not getting enoughexercise and they just have too
much energy Like?
Are they not being mentally?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
stimulated enough on a daily basis.
You can take these kids, thesepoor kids, and you stick them in
a classroom for eight hours aday and then you wonder why they
have, you know, attentiondeficit issues or whatever.
And yeah, like kids, young kidsare not meant to be put in one
place for eight hours a day withno kind of physical stimulation
at all.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, school is very different now than it used to be
, and it is very challenging andI know for myself.
There's no way I could sit in aschool all day long.
I think back to what I wasthinking.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I think back to what I was like when I was in school
and I was just like, oh my gosh,it was eight hours a day, yeah,
private school.
We would have 15 minuterecesses every four hours and I
was like six, seven years old,being forced to sit at this tiny
little desk and do my math orwhatever, and I'm just like, oh
my gosh, how did I survive?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Right, because you know that's not how we're made
to be.
Little kids are not meant tosit that long.
That doesn't mean that theyhave a problem.
It means our system has aproblem.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Exactly and like, and then it affects them mentally
and then, you know, kids, theyget depressed from that lack of
physical stimulation and thelack of you know like moving
movements helps our mentalhealth.
Yes, I mean.
That's why mental healthproviders will tell you exercise
and there's a reason for that.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
There are some great studies on exercise, comparing
exercise alone toantidepressants, and exercise
did better.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes, yes.
And so then you wonder you know, these kids, from the time
they're five years old untilthey graduate high school, have
such a lack of movement withintheir bodies, and then we wonder
why there's such a huge mentalhealth crisis.
Right, and so we're just tryingto figure out how to get this
junk food, lack of exercise, allof these things that are
feeding into this, this mentalhealth crisis within our kids,
(35:12):
and we're just perpetuating thesystem yes, like we built the
system that created this problem.
And then we're sitting therewondering, huh, how did this
happen?
I don't understand what's goingon.
It's like we did it, we createdit.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
We did.
We were thinking why don't wejust continue to throw more and
more money at it through theschools either?
You gotta get back down to thefoundations.
These kids there's way too muchpressure.
They need weekends off fromhomework, at a bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, you know you need to get back down to basics,
yeah, yeah, and you know I, andalso I feel like mental health
care also starts at a very youngage too.
Making it a practice to taketheir kids to a therapist like
every two weeks, once a month,just to kind of build that
foundation of mental health, isnot something to be scared of
(36:04):
and it's okay to struggle Like Iunderstand and so like, and I
feel like that's very healthy,like talk about what's going on
and like I try to encourage evenmy four year old to talk about
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yes, and it's just like if you're struggling in
school, you get a tutor.
Yeah, life also is a struggleat times and we need to know how
to navigate and we need theskills to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, and if parents are feeling overwhelmed and
don't know how to cope with achild that is having struggles
and having problems, and thenit's fine to ask for help, that
doesn't make you a bad parent.
It actually makes you a goodparent, a strong parent.
Recognizing that I don't havethe skills or the tools to help
my kid, let me go get somebodythat can.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
It makes you a great parent to be able to recognize
that and to be able to put yourown ego aside, and so I need to
bring in help.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yes, yes, and you know, and I think that more
parents should do that and notbe scared of it, and should
actively try to break away fromthis model that we've built
around mental health care andaround our kids of you know, I
got this, I'm strong, I don'tneed any help, because you know
it does directly feed into ourkids, Even if it's like a
(37:21):
subconscious thing.
They see what we're doing andthey mimic everything we do and
so they're gonna see how wetreat mental health and they're
gonna take that on and they'regonna grow up the same way and
the problem is just gonna it'sjust gonna perpetuate and get
worse.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So yes, parents are definitely leading by example.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, so Well, this was an amazing conversation.
There was a lot of greatinformation here, so thank you
very much.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Curious.
Thank you so much.
It was such a great talk.
I really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of All Our
Little Messes.
Please let us know how much youenjoyed it below and add any
questions you have about thisepisode.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Patreon for amazing
exclusive perks, including earlyaccess to podcast episodes and
bonus episodes every month.
(38:18):
We've also recently added asupport group for all of our
paid patrons.
You can check us out onFacebook and Instagram for daily
updates and insights thatmirror podcast topics.
Thank you for listening andwe'll see you next week.
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