Rising from the Ashes: A Journey through 'Burn Down, Rise Up' | BLK Girl Reads Ep. 8 - BLK Girl Reads: A Book Club Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Jann (00:01):
Mysterious disappearances, an urban legend rumored to be
responsible.
One group of teens determined tosave their city at any cost for
over a year.
The Bronx has been play bysudden disappearances that no
one can explain.
16 year old Raquel does her bestto ignore it.
After all, the police only lookfor the white kids.
But when her crushed Charlize'scousin goes missing.

(00:21):
Raquel starts to pay attention,especially when her own mom
comes down with a mysteriousillness that seems linked to the
disappearances, Raquel andCharise team up to investigate.
But they soon discover thateverything is tied to a
terrifying urban legend calledthe Echo Game.
The game is rumored to trappeople in a sinister world
underneath the city, and therules are based on a

(00:42):
particularly dark chapter in NewYork's past.
And if the friends who want tosave their home and everyone
they love, they will have toplay the game and destroy the
evil at its heart or die trying.
All

Joi (00:55):
Woo,

Jann (00:56):
Well, welcome to the Pack cast everybody.
I'm Jan, your host.

Joi (01:02):
I Joy, your co-host.

Didi (01:04):
And I am indeed a visiting guest.

Jann (01:09):
We have an awesome guest with us today.
and if you like what she has tosay, she'll share her socials
after, so you can go and followher.

Didi (01:17):
Yeah.

Jann (01:18):
all right, so let's jump right into it.
let's do ratings.
Joy, what do you think you wouldrate?
burn down, rise up

Joi (01:25):
I'm gonna get rid of two and a half.

Jann (01:27):
Two and a half.
Okay.

Joi (01:29):
Mm-hmm.
Out

Jann (01:30):
All right.
All right.
Uh, do you wanna give a quickreasoning without spoilers?

Joi (01:37):
Not without spoilers.
No.

Jann (01:40):
Okay.
Uh, DEI, you wanna give yourrating?

Didi (01:44):
My rating is also a two and a half.

Jann (01:47):
Okay.

Joi (01:50):
Yep.

Jann (01:50):
Any explanation, spoilers, or you wanna wait?
We get.

Didi (01:56):
I do have a explanation without spoilers, and that is
for me, there were too manypotholes.
I had too many questions thatwent unanswered.
And then I'll also preface this,that there's a.
I'm a mid 30, well, not mid 30,early 30 year old, reading a
young adult.
So there were some moments whereI just could not relate.

(02:18):
It just did not make any senseto me why the kids were thinking
the way they were.
I tried to see if, well, when Iwas in high school, is this
what, how I would've reacted.
And I can say, honestly, I don'tthink so, but it's been a while
since I've been in high school.

Jann (02:39):
Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair.
okay, so for my rating, I wasgiven it a three and a half
stars and I thought I was beingharsh, but I do have a lot of
those same concerns with likethe plot holes and just like,
you know, some things I couldn'trelate to, like you said.

Didi (02:54):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (02:55):
and we'll get into more.
That's all I think I can saywithout giving too many
spoilers.
But, this is the point of theepisode.
Guys, from here on out it'sspoilers.
So if you haven't read the bookand you wanna read it, go ahead
and click off and come backafter you've read it or you can
jump to the end if you, uh, wanta chance to win this book.
Uh, joy, do you wanna give ourrecap?

Joi (03:18):
I'll give my recap and then you can give your recap because
you always say, I don't go overit well.

Jann (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, I did say that.
Wait, Deedee, you are in for atreat.
Wait, watch.

Joi (03:32):
Okay, now here we go.
We have Raquel as the maincharacter.
Um, she's in high school.
We have Poppy, her father, hermom, um, Cisco is Charli.
Okay.
Erin is Raquel's best friend,and then we have Charlize, like
I got it written down.
Charlize is the crush of bothErin and Raquel.

(03:54):
And then we have Oscar, who wasAaron's cousin, brother.
It's one of them.
Who

Jann (04:01):
it was Mario you're

Didi (04:02):
Yeah, it was Mario.

Joi (04:04):
Oh, Mar, that's right.

Jann (04:06):
That's Aaron's brother.

Didi (04:07):
Yeah,

Joi (04:08):
Aaron's brother who was Oscar.

Jann (04:10):
I don't recall.

Didi (04:11):
I don't recall.
No Oscar.

Jann (04:13):
Right.

Joi (04:16):
So much for writing things down.

Jann (04:18):
are you enjoying it so far?

Joi (04:23):
I thought a different format for the summary might
help, but, uh, so far, woo.
So basically at the beginning wehave Francisco, who they call
Cisco.
Throughout the story he's beenmissing and he comes up and he
goes to the hospital, kind ofdaisy doozy, Daisy

Jann (04:43):
Woozy.

Joi (04:43):
woozy,

Jann (04:45):
Okay.
Yeah.

Joi (04:48):
and he touches, Raquel's mom who was a nurse.
And she comes down with somekind of, and like sickness and
no one knows what it's about.
It's very contagious.
So because of that, Raquel hasto go live with Poppy, who is
her father.
Their parents are separatedright now.
and her father is veryspiritual, not religious, but

(05:08):
spiritual.
he has beads for her that shekind of carries with her because
she's been having bad dreams andfighting in her sleep and coming
up with odd bruises.
basically Raquel is kind of, um,she's recruited by Charlize to
help F Cisco and basically theyfind out that he played a game

(05:30):
called the Echo Game and youhave to go to the subway at a,
at 3:00 AM and stay there for anhour and there's certain rules
that you can't break.
And apparently Cisco broke thoserules so he couldn't come back.
Um, so there's gonna go findhim.
And then, um, Charise, she, oncethey go, she sees what she
thinks is Cisco and gets off thesubway and then gets trapped

(05:52):
there because the timers runningout and Raquel couldn't find
her.
So Raquel leaves recruits Aaron,and Aaron brings Mario and they
go find Charlize and, uh, Youknow, I forgot like a whole,
like part of this Dang.
On story.
So,

Jann (06:11):
you're doing way better

Didi (06:13):
you hitting the main points though?

Jann (06:14):
Exactly.

Joi (06:16):
okay.
And then like, so with the echo,it is like topsy-turvy.
Think of like stranger things,the upside down of, the Bronx or
Brooklyn.
Is it the same thing?

Didi (06:26):
I think it's.

Jann (06:28):
Yeah.
Bronx, I don't, no, Bronx is notBrooklyn, but.

Joi (06:31):
uh, um, so they go to the Bronx, like the upside down.
Things are kind of old, likekind of, um, how you would find
it in the seventies becausebasically the echo attaches to
whatever the worst thinghappened in this area.
And the worst thing thathappened was that they were, the
neighborhood was getting kind ofburned down all at once due to

(06:52):
gentrification, I think.
Um, and yeah, a lot of peopledied a big tragedy.
And this is where they're tryingto like, find their way out of
and fight.
The bad guys and the people thatare also trapped there who are
kind of like ghouls or zombiesor whatever.
So you wanna fight against thoseand eventually everyone makes it
out except for Cisco.
And that's it.

(07:12):
The end

Jann (07:14):
The end happily

Joi (07:15):
the mom is okay.

Jann (07:19):
I think it's interesting that you mentioned Stranger
Themes.
I saw like an ad for the bookbefore I put on our list that
said it was like, strangerThemes meets Reddit
conspiracies.
I'm like accurate, accurate.
I'm sure I read it.

Joi (07:35):
the.
When I first, heard, when youfirst read the synopsis last
episode, I thought about thatgirl that went, that disappeared
playing that elevator game andshe ended up in the water tower

Didi (07:47):
Oh yeah,

Joi (07:49):
Like I know there's a few different games like this and I
remember in high school and I'mlike, I playing these goddamn
games crazy.
Hell turn the lights and playhide and seek with demon dolls
and

Didi (08:07):
Candyman.

Jann (08:09):
What I remember is the cinnamon challenge.
I don't know who y'all washanging out with, like elevator
game, demon dolls.
I don't remember none of that.

Joi (08:19):
Yeah, and it's a certain set of rules you're supposed to
play by and like if you mess up,they could kill you.
Things like that.
Yeah.
Like I'm not playing thesegames.
No.
I can't believe you don'tremember those.

Jann (08:32):
as far as like, I thought it was funny that no one
mentioned a Ouija board with anEcho game, but everyone kept
saying, was he playing with aOuija board?

Didi (08:40):
Right.

Jann (08:42):
Like that's the only thing that's like scary that people
were doing like around me that Iwas like, I would never, like,
no, don't even ask me.
You have a Ouija board in thehouse.
I'm going home.

Didi (08:51):
Right.

Jann (08:52):
Like,

Joi (08:53):
Yep.
Absolutely No leeway for thatkind of stuff.
It's scary.

Jann (08:58):
yeah.
I thought that was a reallyinteresting part of the book
when they were like figuring outfrom his roommate what happened
to him once he told them, likeeverything that happened to
everyone who played, everyonewas silent and then just said,
yeah, black people don't dothis.

Joi (09:15):
Yeah.
I thought that's funny.
She kept bringing up like, blackpeople don't do this.
No.
I'm

Jann (09:22):
that's so funny.

Joi (09:23):
No, I was just gonna get into it as far as Cisco touching
her mom.
I was like, I wonder if he likerecognized her and was asking
her for help being a nurse.
Like, oh, I recognized thatnurse and kind of reached out to
her

Jann (09:34):
Well, he said in the book that he kind of recognized her,
but he couldn't tell where, andI think he was just losing
control is how I read it, andgrabbed onto whoever was
closest.

Joi (09:43):
Hmm.

Didi (09:43):
And so, so for me, what I'm trying to understand is, and
I think I might've missed somebits and pieces, he get back on
the train to get out.
How did he get out?

Jann (09:55):
So they kept calling him Allure and I kind of had to
infer what that meant.
Like they were letting him passback and forth, but they never
explained

Didi (10:03):
Yeah, it wasn't, and so then he's got this rot inside of
him.
I'm assuming it's because hedidn't follow the rules, but he
was still able to come out.

Joi (10:15):
I think they let him go out there to pass on this kind of
like sickness, contagion or

Didi (10:21):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (10:22):
next person because apparently you don't have to
play the damn game if you getthe touch.
The ick,

Didi (10:28):
Just Okay.

Jann (10:33):
Well, I don't understand that either.
'cause they made it seem likeshe was the only person who they
had seen this from.
Like you'd think like hospitalswould share notes if they found
like a completely new mysteriousillness.
But they said that a lot ofpeople were.
Yeah, the corduroy guy from thewhole book, they said he was a
Lord too, which apparently meanthe could talk to her, which I

(10:54):
never understood that either.
Like did she play the gamebefore or was she just psychic?
And that's why she was able togo back and forth,

Didi (11:00):
Yeah, see, and I wish they would've developed that a little
bit more, or at least given abackstory.
There's like so much, so manybackstories that they, that, uh,
could have been added here togive context to the characters
and what they're able to do.
'cause then my thing was the dadis very like, spiritual and he
knows about his daughter havingthese dreams, fighting off

(11:21):
demons or whatnot in her sleep.
Why would she tell him or askmore questions or anything like
that?

Jann (11:27):
I didn't get that at all.
As soon as he brought it up, shecould have been like, yeah, look
at this, this burn.
I just.

Didi (11:35):
exactly.

Jann (11:37):
There's a whole thing with that where like, I felt like I
inferred a lot of things, butI'm not sure if that's what the
author intended because he alsosaid like, both of your parents
are spiritual and that's why Ithink you're psychic told her, I
think you're psychic.
And she still found some way tonot tell'em.
I, it was weird.
I'm curious about your opinionson their marriage breaking up.

(11:57):
I assumed it was because a momblamed him for his, like
santoria he was doing, and sheseemed like she was very much
like Christian because, youknow, she said that he couldn't
even come into the house, butthey also seemed cordial.
So do you think like she blamedhim for her having the
nightmares because of theSanteria?

Joi (12:14):
I don't

Didi (12:15):
I don't know.

Joi (12:16):
that that was the case.
I feel like it was more justlike maybe the personalities
didn't mesh well anymore.
Especially after having a kid.
Like he was obviously moremessy.
Some things probably didn'tbother him as it would bother
her, especially with him havinga kid.
Like he didn't have internet.
It was constantly cold becausehe was living in a dump kind of,

Jann (12:33):
Well, that's just because he was a bachelor at that point
though.
Like that's a lot.
Men live, right?

Joi (12:38):
yeah.
But like if

Jann (12:39):
they just don't.

Joi (12:40):
you just like, I don't wanna clean up after you and
this kid, and I'm a nurse, likeI got all this shit to do.
I

Didi (12:44):
I will say your mentality change, having kid you put up
with so much.
'cause I mean, just thinkingabout my relationship with my
husband, there was a lot that Iput up with, but then when I
brought this baby, I can't takecare of this baby and you a
whole, everything's gotta changeand you need to grow up.
And so I was thinking maybe itwas a difference like of that.

(13:06):
Plus he, em kept mentioning it.
He was an mt so that wasannoying to me, working some
crazy hours and that also wasn'tthe situation at all.

Joi (13:22):
And to also have possessed baby, I mean, that's stressful,
so

Jann (13:27):
Okay.
One more piece of evidence Iwanna introduce then

Didi (13:30):
Okay.

Jann (13:31):
was when she said that her mom told her not to even pass by
places where they practicedSanteria.
That was interesting to me.
'cause she was like, yeah, Inever thought about it before.
I just thought she was beingoverprotective and I didn't
wanna go there anyway,

Didi (13:44):
can see how people would look at Santare and think it's
like Dean of Magic or somethinglike that, because I've seen
like, I mean, granted it is whatdramatic ization or however you
pronounce that word on tv.

Jann (13:58):
ization, I don't know.

Didi (14:00):
So that word, um,

Jann (14:01):
It's a lot of syllables.

Didi (14:02):
and you know, all the rituals and you know,
sacrificing like chickens andstuff like that.
I don't know if that's what theyactually do.
'cause I don't know San reallike that.
So quote me on it or get, get onme for saying that.
But I could see, you know, uh, ablack mom being like, oh no, you
ain't going, that ain't overthere.

(14:23):
Leave that alone.

Joi (14:24):
Yeah.
Like just

Didi (14:25):
That is possible.

Joi (14:26):
Yeah.
Like you don't know it like, youknow, like, I mean, honestly, if
I knew someone was doing like adifferent kind of like spiritual
kind of, you keep your distance,be respectful.
Don't even go over there so youwon't fuck up.
That's the way I look at it.
You know, don't piss anybodyoff.

Jann (14:41):
to not want to like dabble with stuff they don't
understand.
It seemed like she was all theway into Christianity and he was
all the way into Sania.
So like that mes up I feel likewas a theme of the book, like
just trying to combine culturesand sometimes it works out and
sometimes it doesn't.

Didi (14:56):
Right.

Jann (14:58):
It was very interesting to me, especially since they were
Dominican, you know, because alot of them do practice santer
and then a lot of them are veryChristian.
Like, that's just how thecommunity seems like.
Um,

Joi (15:08):
just think it's interesting too that they couldn't mix it a
little bit better.
Like maybe the mom was more justclose-minded to it, but I don't
see the issue of the babywearing beads while they sleep
and like just lighting a

Jann (15:18):
that was it.

Joi (15:19):
also taking her to church, you know?

Jann (15:21):
I think at some point in the book he said that, the mom
or the mom's family is what hesaid got irritated with him
having the beads around becausethey thought they were bad luck.
And every time she would have,like, that's what it seemed like
to me, like they were workingstuff out until the baby was
having these nightmares andgetting hurt and then they
couldn't reconcile like theirbeliefs.

Didi (15:41):
Yeah,

Jann (15:42):
but yeah, he said that they family was irritated that
he had the beads around and saidit was bad luck.
So,

Joi (15:47):
Hmm, I can see that.
I can see it.

Jann (15:52):
yeah.

Joi (15:53):
All right.

Jann (15:54):
did dive right in, let's take a step back.
Did you guys have least orfavorite characters least
favorite or favorite?

Didi (16:01):
Yeah, I think so.
I like to do with the corduroyjacket.
He was interesting to me, kindof mysterious, was trying to
figure out what his deal was.
Is he, evil is good.
I didn't clock him as all theway evil at the beginning
either.
So, um, his character wasinteresting to me.
I will say my least favorite is,um, the main girl.

(16:27):
What's her name?
I done forgot her name?
already.

Joi (16:29):
Raquel.

Jann (16:29):
remember?

Didi (16:31):
Raquel?
Raquel.

Jann (16:33):
why was she your least favorite?

Didi (16:34):
nerves.
She got on my nerves becausethere was a lot of things that
she did that just did not makeany sense to me.
Like one, why ain't you tellingyour daddy what's going on?
Why do you think that only youcan save the debt?
It just don't, I, I hate thatmentality.
And then the things that she didin the books just didn't make
sense.
I feel like the author couldhave built better connections.

(16:57):
That made more sense as to whyyou would get off that train.

Joi (17:00):
Mm-hmm.

Didi (17:01):
A, a friend that I ain't talked to in years, I got a
little crush on, I'm not gettingoff of this train for you after
I tried to stop you and youtrying to get, I can understand
why she ran off after her, butRa, why are you getting off?
That ain't your

Jann (17:21):
that, that sounds so harsh, but I swear to you I was
think of the same thing, likeit'd have to be a sister or a
best friend or.

Didi (17:28):
A, a blood relation because I'm not going.

Joi (17:32):
even said, that's why Aaron didn't go the first time.
He was like, listen, I like you,but uh, I ain't playing no demon
game.

Didi (17:38):
turned around and got mad at Raquel for leaving Charlie's,
and I'm like, excuse me.
If I would've gone after her,would I be here?

Joi (17:47):
Mm-hmm.

Didi (17:47):
So you want me to die, but you wouldn't even go get on that
damn train to begin with.
Boy, bye.
I'm not and, and then I wouldn'teven apologize for it, my
decision, but let's go on andtry and get this girl.
I guess I don't even know if Iwould do that.

Jann (18:05):
right.
Real quick though.
Real quick.
I hate to be at Elisa Simpson,but

Didi (18:11):
Okay.

Jann (18:11):
Aaron did wanna take his little ass on that train too.
He couldn't because he was sick,but he was like trying to go
along to impress her, which Ithought was even stupider.
I don't even know if I could saystupider, but yeah, he wanted to
go and then got mad at her and Iwas like, you're crazy.
and then another thing withRaquel, like, I think it was

(18:31):
kind of a cop out to just sayshe was mad and saying stuff
because of the echo affectingher.

Didi (18:38):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (18:38):
Like she could have just been that though, like she has a
lot of shit going on with her,like her mother.
And that was the thing that wasmost unbelievable to me, that
she cared even for a secondabout what the fuck Charlize was
going through when her mom has aweek to live.

Joi (18:51):
Mm-hmm.

Didi (18:52):
Right.

Jann (18:53):
Like that was the most unbelievable thing.
I think like, yeah, thechemistry between them was off
to me, like when she firstmentioned it.
I was like, that seems kind ofnostalgic to have like a crush
that you kind of say stuff outloud so that they show up at the
same place as you.
Like that seemed like cute kidstuff, but the fact that she
cared at all once her mom wassick was

Didi (19:14):
Right,

Jann (19:14):
unbelievable for me.

Didi (19:16):
right, right.

Joi (19:17):
Yeah, because it seemed like the stakes didn't go up
until after she said Charlizewas there trapped, and not
after.
Your mom only had a week or twoto live.
She goes, oh, we gotta goimmediately.
You know?

Didi (19:29):
But then, but then if, if, if I feel like that Charlize was
there to get this girl to go tothe Echo, I don't know that she
would go.
If it was just her mom was sickand got a week to live,

Joi (19:44):
no.

Didi (19:44):
because there's no like backstory as to how did the echo
come to be?
Where did this game come from?
Why is it that you gotta playit?
And then that, like the endingthat, but we'll get to that
part, but I just, there's no, Ineed some definitions as to why

(20:04):
this stuff is ex, why it existswhen it's been around for a very
long time.
I'm sure somebody could researchit, just like do man research
and found that Olivia girl inEngland, which by the way, that
was another thing that annoyedme.
voice actor or the narrator wasgood, except for when it came to

(20:25):
British accent.
That was, it was terrible.
I wanted to, to fast forwardthrough, but I'm like, I gotta
listen to it, hear what shesaid.
But, and then you would thinkafter hearing what the girl said
about.
And playing this game that wouldtell me, oh no, we don't need to
go on there.
That's okay.

Jann (20:45):
can we just hold on for a second?
We're right there at that pointtoo.
first of all, I didn't listen tothis audio book.
I read this one, so I need to goback and listen'cause I think
that's gonna be hilarious.
But also why is it that thewhole time they were annoyed at
people for not believing themand then they found this girl
that actually went in and theyall discredited her.
Like, oh, she's just crazy.

Joi (21:06):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (21:07):
what?
Like I'm sure it can't be thatbad.
It didn't really happen.
She's crazy.
Like I don't know how thatworks.
Like you guys have been talkingthis whole time about how no one
believes you and you're soexcited to talk to someone who's
been through it and youimmediately dismiss her.
What sense does that make?

Didi (21:24):
Mm-hmm.
Teenage logic.

Joi (21:29):
Wait a sec.
So wait, Jan, who was yourfavorite and least favorite?

Didi (21:31):
Yes.

Jann (21:33):
Okay.
So my least favorite wasCharlize.

Joi (21:36):
Really?

Jann (21:37):
Period.
Period.
Like seriously when she firstsnapped on Charlize in the bus,
when she was like, what do wedo?
What do we do now?
What do we, and she was like,I'm right here with you.
What do you mean?
What do we do?
Can you shut up for a second?
Like, I dunno.
And then she went and sat acouple chairs down, They had the

(21:57):
whole thing where she was like,I don't know what this is.
Like I just, it's the echo wasaffecting me.
Like, no, that was a goodreaction to what you're going
through.
Like that was actuallylegitimate because she's being
annoying as

Didi (22:10):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (22:12):
And then like the fact that she almost didn't get on
the train, oh, here's the thingthat first made me not like her
is when they were talking aboutif they were gonna do it or not.
And she spoke for both of them.
Was like, well, me and Raquelare gonna do this and you guys
can come or not.
Like talking to Arian Mario.
If I was Raquel, I would've beenlike, who is doing it?
Because you didn't consult withme on that.

(22:33):
We both are learning thisinformation right now.
Like I don't understand, likeconsent is important is all I'm
saying.
But she, of course Raquel justwent along with her'cause Raquel
was a close second to my leastfavorite.
Um, yeah.

(22:57):
Who was my favorite?
I don't know, probably Mario, tobe honest with you.
I know he said that he wentthrough like an obnoxious phase
where he was like brutallyhonest, which I think was a
asshole move, but it also seemedlike he was a kid.
So I feel like his reactions toeverything was very measured.
Like he was being kind of creepywith her the first time we met

(23:18):
him.
But if Aaron lied to him andsaid that she was into him, that
makes sense.
And then he came along withAaron to protect him, even
though he thought it wasbullshit, which I think good
brother, in my opinion.
Um,

Joi (23:31):
And he brought a gun.

Jann (23:33):
no, no.
Aaron brought the gun.

Joi (23:35):
Oh, okay.

Didi (23:36):
That was

Jann (23:37):
Mario brought brass knuckles, which I was also like,
you wanna get in,

Didi (23:41):
the thing I didn't understand is that she knew
going back in that, you know, wedealing with some zombies.
They gonna try to eat you.
They gonna try and get at you.
So I brought this bat and Iforget what else she brought,
but then caught himself shockedthat he brought a gun.
Why not?
Seems like it'd be just aseffective, if not more than a
bat, like Raquel knew what wasgoing on in the echo, the in

(24:04):
between, the upside down orwhatever, and that there would
be zombies trying to come atyou.
'cause you know that's what theydo.
Why on earth are you shocked andappalled about a dude bringing a
gun to, to this fight y'allfighting for your lives?
For me, I'd be like, Great.

(24:24):
The more the merrier.
I'd rather shoot a zombie thanget up close and personal with a
bat that might not work.
So that to me just like, whoa,that's too much.
You brought a gun, but y'allabout to get on this train and
go enter in with some zombies.
Don't understand that.
So that one kind of annoyed me,

Jann (24:44):
yeah, that was super weird for me, especially since like,
She went through the whole thingof packing up her bat and like
it went through her mind of, I,I hope I still have this at the
end.
It'll be a good memento.
I'm like, what?
Where is your brain right now?
Like, why is that what you'reworried about, girl?
Like it looks so pristine.
I wonder how damaged it'll be atthe end of this.

(25:05):
Like, I wonder how damagedyou'll be at the end of this
stupid, like how you keep youreyes on the prize, like what's
happening?

Joi (25:14):
I was sort of wondering like, right.
I was wondering, she did atleast bring some bug spray and a
lighter.

Didi (25:28):
I

Joi (25:28):
thinking, like,

Didi (25:29):
I would be decked out like gear, like a helmet, something.
But then you call yourselfshocked that a tall man brought
a gun.
I think he was the smartest one.

Joi (25:43):
I would've taken my whole like,'cause her dad is
spiritual.
He should have take been takingnotes, spring some salt, some
kosher salt with you, you know,watch Supernatural.
Right.
Take some notes, how to fightghost and demons.
Like pretty much went in therenaked.
Mm-hmm.

Didi (25:58):
I got back on that, that, that

Jann (26:01):
And didn't she say like there were like nine bees that
she found around the house?
Why did you only bring enoughfor you guys?
Like why wouldn't you bring someextras just in case?
What if the breaks are likebreaks?

Joi (26:14):
Yeah.

Jann (26:15):
I don't know why she was so set on packing light this
second time around.

Joi (26:19):
And because both of your family, like both sides of your
family are spiritual andChristian, you should have
brought some holy water.
You should, you had an arsenalto bring.
Yeah.

Didi (26:31):
everything.

Joi (26:32):
If I ever found myself in that situation, I would do so
much research, like she wasready to go the second time
without even looking it up.
I did admire Aaron for wantingto do research first so they can
get outta there alive, but shedidn't wanna do any of that.
I,

Didi (26:46):
Right.

Jann (26:48):
I was ready to smack Erin a couple times too throughout
the book.
Like anytime he brought upCharlize or you don't like her,
right?
I was ready to say like, my momis in the fucking hospital.
What are you talking about rightnow?
And she would get upset at himand say she's going through
something.
This isn't the time to thinkabout it.
Like, what about you?
What about your mother?
Like where, I don't understandyour motivation for anything.

Didi (27:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Joi (27:13):
Hmm.
I

Jann (27:14):
Very interesting.

Joi (27:15):
It could have been like that teenager mindset though.
Like they're very, they can bekind of selfish and just think
about how things, well, I mean,it's, your mom will affect you
too if she died in the hospital.
I don't know.
I would be concerned personally.

Jann (27:30):
It didn't, and you would think like her saying that she's
not connected at all to her dadand she was worried about like
having to move in with him andblah, blah, blah.
Like you haven't said two wordsabout your mother.
I know more about the Charlizegirl than I know anything about
your mom.
And literally it's your mother.
Like, I don't get it.

(27:50):
Anyway, she was a very closesecond, but I felt like she was
at least a little bit morelogical than, um, Charlize.
But yeah, I said Mario was myfavorite because I felt like his
reactions were appropriate forwhatever, like even if he had a
asshole phase of the kid.

Joi (28:05):
I didn't have a favorite.
The, the closest to a favoritethat I had was Poppy, but you

Jann (28:10):
That's true.
I did like him.

Didi (28:12):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (28:13):
it was just like, he just seemed kind of like sucky as a
parent, I think.
Like he was there for her, butlike, we couldn't, like, he
didn't get groceries oranything.
Like they were always eatingout.
That's not good for a kid.
She was sleeping on the futon.
You talking about she, youfinally gotta get internet and
like get a place for her tosleep.
Like

Didi (28:31):
I do not have.

Joi (28:32):
weeks.
Right.
So I was just like, and you'rean E M T.

Jann (28:36):
kid?

Joi (28:37):
Yeah.
Like that.
Like you've been that hands offthis whole time.
So I don't know, it kind offrustrated me that he wasn't a
better, better father, moreprepared, but, and the fact that
she was so surprised that he wassort of pick her up.
So it, I don't know, like evenif you're surprised, like I
wasn't expecting you to pick meup, but not like, what's going
on?
Something must be an issue.
Like this is an emergency, youknow?

Didi (28:58):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (28:58):
So it was one of those things, I think he was very much
hands off with her.
Um, and then my least favorite.
Hmm.
I think I'm gonna have to gowith Cisco and I think I don't
like Cisco's because

Jann (29:14):
I was not expecting that.

Joi (29:16):
he was the one that got all them into this issue playing
this stupid game with your dramaclub or whatever.
And then you, I mean like you'rebacking haunting us and shit,
you messed up my mama and thenyou come into me in dreams and
shit and telling me, go helpCharlize.
I'm like, what?
Like, whatcha doing?

Didi (29:37):
What was the,

Joi (29:41):
There wasn't one, like they used to be friends.
Charlise and her were friendsbefore when they were younger
and she was around because shewas friends with Charlize.
So Cisco just knew of Raquelbasically.

Didi (29:53):
he go to like,

Jann (29:54):
Cisco were cousins and they said that they were super
close, and then at the end oftheir book, it was revealed that
they were super close becauseshe had feelings for Raquel and
she was the only one like

Didi (30:04):
well, yeah,

Jann (30:05):
one she talked to about it.

Didi (30:07):
but, so that's the reason why he went to Raquel

Joi (30:10):
Right.
I'm like, leave me outta it.
Mm-hmm.
Leave me and my mama out of it.

Jann (30:17):
Like, you already infected my mom, and instead of coming to
me and saying, sorry, you tellme to go in there and get
infected too.

Didi (30:26):
Because I won't save you after, you know, in fact, my
mama, she got a week to live.

Joi (30:32):
Mm-hmm.

Didi (30:33):
No

Jann (30:34):
Thank you.

Joi (30:35):
So Cisco is definitely my least favorite because he
started this whole thing off.
Like why?
Like they said it too, and theywas like, what was he doing down
there?
Like, black people don't dothat.
Like we don't play those games.
So Yeah.
Like just didn't make any

Jann (30:47):
And he said he was going for moral support for a friend
who couldn't sleep for a coupleweeks.

Joi (30:53):
No.

Jann (30:54):
Like send him a gift basket.

Joi (30:56):
Right.

Jann (30:56):
doing?
Like

Didi (30:58):
melatonin,

Joi (30:58):
playing that.

Jann (31:00):
buy him a beer you don't like Go play the, okay.
So one of the questions that Iwas gonna ask is, would you play
the Echo

Joi (31:08):
Now, you know it's gonna be No.

Jann (31:10):
I'm pretty sure none of us.

Didi (31:13):
Yeah.

Joi (31:15):
Even if it was like a sleepover kind of thing.
Like he was saying, likeeveryone just went.
So he went, I'd be like, I'llstay here.
I'll wait

Didi (31:21):
mm-hmm.

Joi (31:22):
Keep it warm.
See y'all in

Didi (31:25):
I

Joi (31:25):
I guess.

Didi (31:28):
don't find out

Joi (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Ain't no way no.

Jann (31:36):
I am sitting here quiet, like, would I let them back in?
I

Didi (31:48):
home.

Joi (31:51):
Right.
You're like, mom, come pick meup.
These people, they talking aboutEcho.
I'm.

Jann (31:59):
like if y'all wanted to sneak out and go to a party, I
ain't let you back in.
But if you're going to play withdemons and spirits, you're not
bringing that shit back to me.
Not today.

Joi (32:08):
up

Didi (32:08):
home and make sure that house is cleansed.

Joi (32:13):
Never talk to them again.

Jann (32:16):
I talked to them at school the next day.
If they survived it, I wouldn'tbe going back over to their
house ever.
Like,

Joi (32:24):
Not at all.

Jann (32:28):
We talked about how both the main characters were
annoying.
Um do you feel like thechemistry was at all like,
realistic between the two ofthem?

Didi (32:36):
not at all.

Jann (32:38):
I think the only thing it did for me was like, make me
think she was a shitty friend,because I completely agreed with
Erin on that.
Like, why didn't you justconfess instead of like trying
to get in the way, likesecretly, you know, when she
said she told Charlise, like,well just say it without words
if you like him.
Because she thought he was, shewas talking about Aaron

Didi (32:59):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (32:59):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (33:00):
and in her mind she was thinking he won't get it.
It's fine.
That seems sneaky, like verysnake-like.
So, uh, yeah, I did not thinkshe was a great friend.

Joi (33:09):
Especially if that's your best friend, Erin too.
And you've

Didi (33:12):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (33:12):
for years that he liked her and it seemed like to me when
they first introduced Charlize,how everyone liked her.
So I thought like, oh, okay.
Erin likes her too.
No big deal.
But then it kind of just seemedlike outta left field that she
liked her too.
I don't know it, it just seemedvery forced to me.

Didi (33:26):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (33:26):
when you haven't talked to her in years.
Like I understand like, oh yeah,I like her, whatever.
Like you also still don't knowher.
You know?
It's been years that you guystalked to each other.
It's just, it just, it was aweird like mix.
Like it's one of those thingswhere it's like you don't always
have to have her romanticrelationship in these books.
It could just be enough.
Like we were besties in middleschool and elementary, and I
know how important Cisco is to,you have no one else to look to.

(33:48):
So it's one of those things, itcould have just easily been like
that.
It don't have to be arelationship every time.
So,

Jann (33:53):
and I feel like I'm glad that they have more books out
where it is like more queerrepresentation, but to be to
your point, I felt like it wasvery forced.
I feel like even if Erin,instead of a character being her
best friend was just hergirlfriend or she had a
girlfriend, like that's anotherway to introduce a queer couple.

(34:13):
Like it, it didn't have to forcethese two characters together.
Like I don't think that fit atall with the story.
It made it really unbelievable.

Didi (34:20):
Yeah.

Joi (34:21):
it would be way more modern take just to not have
relationships, or she was like,no, Erin, I'm a lesbian.
And then keep it moving.
Like, like Raquel didn't have tobe a part of that at all

Jann (34:34):
Yeah, very true,

Joi (34:37):
You.

Jann (34:38):
true.
Actually, now that I think aboutit, if it had happened the exact
same way, like this Charise girlis crushing on her and she
kissed her before they got onthe bus and she just said, you
know, I'm not interested.
I would've been fine with thattoo.

Joi (34:49):
Yeah.
Go like, girl,

Jann (34:52):
Like, I like girls, but not you.
Your cousin just infected my mom

Joi (34:56):
right?
You got me going to a subway at3:00 AM like this is

Didi (35:01):
Right.

Jann (35:03):
Yeah.
Which again, I don't know if Ifully made that point, but
another reason I really did notlike Charlie is like she spoke
up and said that we're bothgoing.
She was adamant about it, andthen she had to convince her to
get on the bus when they firststarted the journey.
That was very annoying to me.

Joi (35:19):
I did like though that they said that she was a
brown-skinned girl with likehair coils and it's so funny
'cause this was before we didn'tlike Charlize, and I was like,
oh, she kind of like makes methink of Jan, like, you know,

Jann (35:32):
Aw.

Joi (35:32):
I like pictured you the whole time with your curly hair
out.
And I was like, oh, she's kindof like, we're ridiculous.
So, yeah.

Jann (35:41):
I hope very early on you were like, she's nothing like
Jan.

Joi (35:46):
Yeah.

Jann (35:47):
That's my hope.

Joi (35:49):
Sure.

Jann (35:51):
Whatever joy.
So, um, this is kind of late inthe discussion, but what are,
well, I guess joy, I know yourrelationship with horror and she
reads it all the time.
She loves it.
But Deedee, do you like read alot of horror

Didi (36:07):
I do not read a lot of horror, like, um, and I thought,
you know, with the zombies,because zombies terrify me, I
can't watch it.
I can't see anybody kind of walklike a zombie.
I don't like it gonna creep intomy dreams and scare me.

(36:27):
That is like, uh, up there.
I would say number two, top fearof mine is to be like walking
dead.
I don't watch it.
Can't do.

Jann (36:39):
have a sister like that, like our oldest sister hates
zombies.

Didi (36:42):
Can't do zombies at all.
But them zombies weren't scary.
I don't, I do like how theydescribed, like she, they kind
of sounded like the cane bodiesand whatnot, like smelled like
it, I guess.
But it just, it didn't scare me.
This one?

Jann (36:57):
So a couple questions.

Joi (36:59):
uh

Jann (37:00):
of all, what's your number one fear?
Now?
I need to know

Didi (37:03):
Hello?

Jann (37:04):
Zombies is number two.

Didi (37:05):
my kid.
Passing away.
Yeah,

Jann (37:09):
completely fair.
So zombies is up there withthat.
That's crazy.

Didi (37:13):
that.

Jann (37:14):
That's a phobia.

Didi (37:15):
to be, growing up, that was my number one fear.
I don't wanna see anythingremotely resembling the unid.

Joi (37:24):
Oh

Jann (37:24):
girl.
And it wasn't that scary.

Didi (37:28):
And this one wasn't that.

Joi (37:32):
Hmm.

Jann (37:32):
I'll say this, I never reho, I'm such a chicken and not
with zombies funny enough.
Like I actually like zombieswhen they move slow because

Joi (37:41):
Slow zombies.

Jann (37:42):
that.
Yeah,

Joi (37:43):
World Row Z zombies now.
That's the problem.

Jann (37:46):
Yeah, that's an issue.
But, um, yeah, I'm such achicken, chicken and chicken.
I forgot this was a horror book.
Like even we were preparing forthe recording today.
I had to go back and check like,are we sure this was a, it was
not scary at all.

Didi (38:02):
It had the potential

Jann (38:04):
Ier.

Didi (38:05):
I think that the, um, the echo and what was in it had the
potential to be a really greathorse.
Give it to Steven King.
He would've scared the everloving shed out of me with it.
But I feel like it could havegone so many ways.
Good.
And I felt it was veryunfortunate that it did not.
'cause it's, I like the idea.

(38:25):
It's an original idea.
But you could have explained itbetter.
Like how did it come about andthen explained more of the
history'cause that history wascompelling.
Um.

Jann (38:36):
love that they have so much.
I actually went up back andlooked it up and it's very real.
Like the fire in the Bronx andlike that whole history, which I
guess it was because ofslumlords and not updating
buildings.
All the wiring was very bad, andthat's how the fire started to
happen.
But it got so bad in that areathat it was happening every
week, like there were justrandom buildings on fire, which

(38:59):
is insane that no one ever didanything about it.
But that was a whole theme aswell.
It's just like red lining andslumlords and racism, like
through,

Didi (39:08):
And see for me, I think that's a compelling enough like
reason for the echo to exist.
So the echo didn't even need tobe worldwide.
I think making the Echoworldwide just made it even more
farfetched, but make itsomething so like,'cause that's
a dark history that gives a lotof negative energy and whatnot.
Yeah.

(39:29):
What a, what is that one lakethat people

Jann (39:32):
uh,

Didi (39:33):
going to and,

Jann (39:33):
the black neighborhood,

Didi (39:34):
yeah.

Joi (39:35):
Yeah.

Didi (39:36):
It was a man,

Joi (39:38):
No, it's not like Travis.

Didi (39:39):
it's somewhere down south where they, um, it was a
flourishing black neighborhoodthat came in.
White people.
White people, and then put a manlake over it.
And then now people Boat, yeah.
Lake Laier and people, and theyboth keep sinking and whatnot
because,

Joi (39:57):
And people drown it and stuff.
Yeah.

Didi (40:00):
and I think,

Jann (40:01):
of injustice just does not go like unspoken.
Of course, it's some hauntedshit.
Of course it is.

Didi (40:06):
And so that is a compelling enough reason why the
echo exists, like

Jann (40:12):
agree.
Like doing the, like Redditconspiracy crap made it less
scary because I was in themindset of Reddit.
Conspiracy theories is likeinsanity.
This is not real.

Didi (40:23):
Right.
And so then that makes me wonderthe point of, um, the slumlord
main villain that, like, whatwas the point of him?
Where

Joi (40:33):
yeah.
I didn't get it.
I didn't think they needed it.

Didi (40:36):
right.

Jann (40:37):
I will say, because I feel like we're getting into the
ending, which didn't make senseand I'm glad we're gonna talk
about it.
But before we get into that, Iwill say that this was Vincent
Tara's, um, debut novel, andthey said that, a bunch of
people told them that theycouldn't do horror with black
people because it just didn'texist.

(40:58):
And I feel like they actuallydid that really well.
Like the reason they went intothe echo.

Didi (41:05):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (41:06):
Kind of made sense because like it was family members that
were affected and they weretrying to rescue them.
Like Charlize.
I could understand her goinginto the Echo.
I didn't really understand whyRaquel went with her other than
like, I feel like the romancewas forced, which we discussed.
But if my mom were in a coma,I'd be compelled to go in to
help her.
I wouldn't ever do it for fun,but I'd do it to save my mom.

(41:27):
So that

Joi (41:28):
just been like, not have them be apart, like just have
them be best friends.
Go like, Hey, my best friend momis in a coma and my cousin is
missing.
We're best friends.
Let's go.
And Aaron is our other bestfriend.
Like, why couldn't they just bea group of friends?
You know?
Why couldn't they just do that?
I don't understand why havingthem be apart and then come

(41:48):
together anyway when you don'texplain why they went apart.
So it

Jann (41:53):
Yeah, but that one dumb friend or cousin or family
member that went and goteverybody dragged into it, that
actually kind of makes sense tome.
And then infected the mom.
So they both have their ownreasons to go that nothing short
of that would've made me get inthere.
I will tell you that

Joi (42:13):
I was actually very disappointed because there were
some creepy parts in the story.
Like, um, the little boy lookingfor her and she was hiding in
the closet and when she tried tocome out, it snatched her back
from behind.
And then,

Didi (42:26):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (42:28):
that was the last creepy part.

Joi (42:30):
The part when, um, she was at the playground as a kid and
no one had faces.
It was one of those, and I wasjust like, what is going on?
You know, it was kind of creepy.
And then it just went downhillfrom there.
I was like, what happened to allthe creepiness?
I liked the idea of the false,false promises per me sauce.
I liked that, but then it justturned into a, so it wasn't

Didi (42:49):
Yeah.

Joi (42:50):
anymore.
And I kind of wish, like, like Ilike the story, but I just felt
like there was different ways togo about it.
Like, why would these peoplehaunt her unless she was just
like psychic, a medium sort of.
So that's the only people thatshe could help, but I don't know
why they would harm her if theywere looking for help.
You know what I mean?
Or exactly why they're reachingout to her specifically.

(43:12):
Like, was she a light orsomething?
You know what I mean?
Like it just.
There were a couple, or she was,she related to the slumlord in
some kind of way, like, I don'tknow, but it is just, and that's
why they would go after her orattack her.
I just don't understand how itwas happening since she was a
kid.
And then it just stopped outtanowhere and started up again.
I just, I didn't like how it wasjust like apart, you know what I

(43:34):
mean?
Like, it didn't, it, it didn'tfit together for me at all.

Jann (43:40):
Yeah, I, I agree.
Especially with the corduroyguy.
Like, I was waiting, waitingpatiently for them to explain
how he was related to her.
And for him to just be an oldfriend of her dad's didn't make
sense to

Didi (43:52):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (43:53):
at all.
Like, what?
Okay, so you saw him in apicture and that's supposed to
explain why he's been hauntingyou since you were a kid.
Like, nah, I don't believe that,especially if he was a lure the
same as Cisco.
If that's the case, they're bothallure.
Why was Cisco dying so quicklywhen he's been around since she
was 10 or six or whatever, orfour they said she was, when she

(44:15):
started having these dreams.
I don't know.

Didi (44:16):
But then,

Jann (44:17):
but it just seemed very farfetched.

Didi (44:19):
explained how he died.
I don't understand how he gotthere.
Maybe because he died, becauseas a result of the slumlords
slumlord,

Joi (44:29):
Yeah.
'cause everyone didn't

Jann (44:30):
case.
Why was he allure?
But the person who went into thegame was also allure like, I
don't get that either.
Like he called himself a lure.
That's not something I'minferring.
Like he said, he was a lure.
Said he was a lure.
What is a lure?
Why?

Didi (44:45):
it wasn't, it's not explained.
Yeah.
There's, there's just so muchnot explained in the book that I

Joi (44:52):
the rules, every time they said I broke the rules, but like
they broke the rules and wereable to leave multiple times.
And it's the rule.
Just get back on the train byfour.
'cause that didn't happeneither.
Like

Didi (45:04):
Right.

Joi (45:05):
all these rules y'all talking about, like you didn't
follow a single one of them

Didi (45:09):
And so then why didn't Raquel infect nobody when she
broke the rule?

Jann (45:15):
I don't get it.
I don't, and I was so mad whenshe crossed in her hand and that
little black thing came up andshe held it off to him.
Like, if you don't get yourgross, what's wrong with you?
I slammed the door in her face.
Like you, your mom is literallyin the hospital right now.
You bring that shit in my houseis.

Joi (45:38):
That's another thing, like when they put that the mother in
quarantine, they didn't take herbecause she was living with her
mom.

Didi (45:43):
Right?

Joi (45:44):
was like step one.
It should just like make sure itdidn't affect others and then
she was in the house then shouldtake

Jann (45:49):
And how many times were they gonna interrogate these
kids at school without theirparents present?
That pissed me off a

Didi (45:56):
Yeah,

Jann (45:58):
And then to say that it was up to her, whether or not
she let the police in to see ifit has something to do with the
house, like why aren't you goingto her dad?
I understand she has the key,but he is her guardian.

Joi (46:10):
Yeah,

Didi (46:11):
She's still a minor, so Yeah.

Joi (46:15):
But I mean, I don't put it past cops to try to like get
around and get what they need toknow from the kids without
involving parents, but theteacher was there and the
teacher should be like, nah.

Didi (46:24):
Yeah.

Jann (46:24):
And again, she should have been bringing up that like whole
situation to her dad.

Joi (46:29):
Yeah,

Jann (46:30):
I understand with young adult novels, like it's a whole
trope, like, uh, spoken, likeblind sight, that they're not
gonna involve their parents justso the story can progress.
But it annoys me every

Didi (46:41):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (46:42):
Especially coming from adults reading the young adult
novels.

Didi (46:46):
Yeah.

Joi (46:46):
And that's one of my issues too.
Excuse me, hea.
It's one of my issues too, isthat a lot of these stories, so
many things could've beenresolved bringing a responsible,
trusted adult into any part ofthese stories.
So I think that's also very,Frustrating for us to read over
and over again.

(47:07):
Just like, come on guys.
Like, I know there's one personthat can literally do anything.
You know, that happened whenMonday's not coming that
happened with white smoke.
Like literally it just takes oneadult.
And it kind of, um, itfrustrates me, but it also makes
me understand like, sometimesyou just don't have an adult
that's present enough orunderstanding enough to listen

(47:27):
to their child.
And we talked about this overand over again.
Like, just be there for yourkids and have an open
communication with your kids.
So these things won't happen.
So it is just like, I didn'twant that to be another reason
why I rated it down low, butthat's one of the reasons

Jann (47:41):
Well, there's this though, like I do feel like her dad was
very open to listening to herand every time she asked a
question, he was there to answerit, and he was a very reliable,
I feel like he didn't cook.
That's one thing he didn't do,but every time she had a
question about her past or likethe whole spiritual thing, like
he did an answer.

(48:03):
Even if he was a little flippantwhen he answered, like he gave
her an even her history topic.
He was like, yeah, this, this,and this.
Oh, and here's a friend.
She can tell you about it too.
Like there was not one thing sheasked that he said like, Stay in
a child's place or somethinglike that, you know, like he was
constantly talking to her.
He, she definitely could havesaid something

Didi (48:22):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (48:23):
why I liked him.
Yeah.
That's why I liked him.
And that's another reason why Irated the book kind of low too,
because every time somethingcame up where she would have to
be outta the house, like afterlike curfew, he would have a
reason to not be there.
Just out of the blue.
Like, oh, you're not groundedanymore.
Oh, I have to work late.
Here's a key, by the way.
Like, oh, this problem solved,you know?

Jann (48:47):
that was so ridiculous.
She said she was stressing aboutit for days and all of a sudden,
just so you know, you're notgrounded and here's a key in
case you wanna sneak in or out.

Joi (48:56):
Basically, I won't be home until six o'clock till, you
know, got the

Jann (49:00):
If you have something to do at 3:00 AM you're free to do
it.

Joi (49:04):
whatever, you know.
It was very confusing to me toowhen Charlize first went missing
and the parents didn'timmediately go like, what the
hell happened, Raquel, you werehere.
You know, just like, like, wheredid she go?
What did y'all do?
Like the last time I saw y'all,y'all were in the room eating di
like pizza, you know, like,where's my daughter at?
So I'm surprised I didn't evenjust drag her ass in at that

(49:26):
point.
The cops just like,

Jann (49:28):
And it's not even like she was working late.
They said she snuck out when shewas sleeping, so she's just
awake, like, wake up and yourkid and the girl is gone and
your daughter never comes back.
How are you not busting downtheir door?

Didi (49:39):
Right.

Joi (49:40):
was like, oh, well she walked me out in the morning.
Why would she

Jann (49:43):
they didn't ask her that until days later.

Joi (49:46):
Yeah,

Jann (49:48):
Yeah.

Didi (49:49):
And then especially after losing your, I'm assuming nephew
goes missing and then yourdaughter goes missing trust.
I'm, I'm, I'm tearing that placeapart to find my kid.

Joi (50:02):
the only

Jann (50:02):
I'm not even waiting for the police.
I'm gonna tell the police, butif they don't go over there
immediately, I'm there.
Literally like the night shedoesn't show up.
I am at your

Didi (50:13):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (50:13):
the only thing I can think about is that in the synopsis of
the story, it was like no onecares when black kids go
missing.
So that's the only thing.
'cause the cop was bored thewhole time too, so they didn't
really care.
Just like we're just

Didi (50:25):
Well then where

Joi (50:26):
Where's she at,

Didi (50:27):
the black mama.
The black,

Joi (50:28):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Jann (50:31):
exactly what I'm saying.
I'll tell the police, but if mykid is not here tonight,
nobody's getting sleep

Joi (50:36):
Yeah.

Jann (50:38):
like you, your windows will be bust in.
Trust me, you're coming to thisdoor and telling me where my
daughter is.
Especially like you said,deedee, like after her nephew
already missing like, no, it'snot going down like this.

Didi (50:53):
Yeah.
That would've made it morebelievable.

Joi (50:57):
Mm-hmm.
I don't get it.

Jann (51:01):
Or even like, I don't understand why a better excuse
wasn't.
Yeah, she wanted to go play thatecho game at 3:00 AM so I went
home

Joi (51:10):
Yeah,

Jann (51:11):
that would've been a good excuse and it would've put them
on the right trail.
So you don't have to keep goingback and forth like what's
happening.

Didi (51:18):
Exactly.

Joi (51:19):
They might ask you what the echo game is.
I'll be like, look it up.

Jann (51:22):
I would've told them, it's this game where these crazy ass
people go on the train at 3:00AM You should probably go look
into that.
Play the game.
Why not?
You have guns?
I have a bat.

Didi (51:31):
Yeah, exactly

Joi (51:34):
True.
And I didn't like that whole

Jann (51:35):
them the whole thing.

Joi (51:37):
I didn't like the standoff

Didi (51:38):
right.
Yeah, that standoff is terrible.

Joi (51:41):
I didn't, I didn't care for it at all.

Didi (51:44):
So like how did the cops get in to sort of like the in
between?

Joi (51:49):
They were just at the subway at the wrong time.
They were following them.

Jann (51:52):
So I guess the bugs came into the real world, the way
Cisco was appearing anddisappearing, which still, I
have no idea how that washappening.
They didn't really explain it,but yeah, it seemed like they
were very much still in the realworld.
And when they were gonna get onthe bus, the cops tried to stop
them and that's why the Echokilled them.

Joi (52:09):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (52:10):
But I don't know how they got there.
Like

Didi (52:14):
Yeah,

Jann (52:14):
was,

Didi (52:16):
and then conveniently the cameras were shut

Jann (52:19):
camera, the echo was very sophisticated.
They got their hacker goals togo ahead and disable the
cameras.

Joi (52:29):
I thought it was, I thought it was funny.
Kinda like a nod to like, copsalways have their body cameras
off, so now it's kind of like,

Jann (52:37):
I wish you had, I bet you wish you had it on that time.

Didi (52:41):
They should know that the cops was trailing them kids, you
know, following them.
So you would think there wouldbe, especially when with the
police, one of their own, two oftheir own go dead, they would be
harassing all in kids.

Joi (52:56):
Especially in New York.
Yes,

Didi (52:58):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (52:59):
absolutely.

Jann (53:01):
Wait.
And then the random white kidsthat got lost being cannibals,
what was that about?

Didi (53:09):
that, that part, and I kind of, I was like, I was also
working a little bit so I kindof missed some of it, but they
just wanted to get out and theyknew that, they figured that
Raquel could get them out andthen all she, all of a sudden,
bye, I don't care about you.
Lemme go get my friends.
And I'm just like, you justgonna leave

Jann (53:26):
I feel like one of them wanted her to help'em, and then
the other one was just like,yeah, let's eat her fingers.
What?
Like, how did you survive thiswhole time?
Like you don't seem like you'rebeing quiet at all.

Joi (53:39):
Yeah.
I didn't understand.
Like I don't, I don't know whythey were zombies.
I thought they would be morelike ghosts, you know?
'cause they're, they're allpretty much dead, you know?
I dunno,

Didi (53:50):
How did they die?

Joi (53:51):
make sense

Didi (53:52):
How did they die?

Joi (53:55):
what the

Jann (53:55):
mean the Echo people or the Ford Ham four

Didi (53:58):
The kids, the.

Jann (54:00):
the Oh the kids.
Okay.
So that was interesting toobecause she said like, we are a
part of the neighborhood, youdon't wanna hurt us.
So they immediately turned tothe white kids like you not a
part of this neighborhood.
And them, she was like, we don'thurt each other.
And they were like, oh, okay.

(54:21):
But y'all, that's fair game.

Joi (54:28):
yeah.
I don't, I don't know.

Jann (54:30):
So what did you guys think about the actual ending?
Like, which I bet we could allpick one plot hole in the ending
that we didn't like.
'cause they were a lot.

Didi (54:40):
apply ho for me was how the hell did what they did save
her mom.

Jann (54:47):
That's a big one.

Joi (54:48):
Because they didn't destroy anything really.
They kept

Didi (54:50):
Yeah.
I'm pretty sure the echo wasstill there.
Right.

Jann (54:53):
The echo was still there and they said like they were,
she killed the slum Lord.
And he said that they, he wouldkeep coming back.

Joi (54:59):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (55:00):
So I don't understand after the neighborhood killed
the slumlord, why he wouldn'tkeep coming back, you know?
And like the fact that the aryguy died and he said it was for
the final time.
Like why

Didi (55:11):
Why?
How, yeah.

Joi (55:14):
Maybe it's because like the people finally stopped blaming
her, I guess, or coming to herand it was like, oh, it's a slum
mow.
Let's take care of him myself.

Didi (55:22):
What to do with Cordy?

Joi (55:25):
Right.
That's the thing,

Jann (55:27):
the fact that Cisco said he was staying back to fight the
slum Lord, like he was gonna getback up after the people killed
him.
So the people killed him.
He should have got back up.
Then Cisco had his turn.
Like why did Corduroy guy die?
Like it was just a lot,

Didi (55:40):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (55:42):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (55:43):
or, okay.
The fact that the police at theend gave up after she said she
was sleepwalking and someoneattacked her.

Didi (55:49):
Thank you.
The did not match up at all.
And then they just let, I gottago smoke.
I need to go smoke.
So I'm,

Joi (56:03):
I

Jann (56:03):
I feel like that was a, sorry.
Go ahead.
Joy.

Joi (56:05):
no, I just wish half of the time that he took to wrap
everything up would've went intoexplaining literally any other
point like that he put up, theending went on for so long, and
it is just like, okay.
All right.
And

Jann (56:20):
they didn't do a good job of that.
the fact, I, I feel like it wasa nod to them talking about how,
like in the synopsis they saidthey only look for the white
kids.
But that was too messy.
Like that was too much.
Like none of their storiesmessed up.
And your story in particular isthat you were sleepwalking and
you didn't wake up when someonebroke your leg.

Didi (56:40):
And you.
you're black in New York, in ared line district, them cops
will be on you, like white onrice.

Jann (56:49):
Exactly.

Didi (56:49):
And you were

Jann (56:50):
they would've just put you in jail just for calling the

Didi (56:53):
officers that wound up dead mysteriously.
You're somehow connected to, uh,dude, Cisco, who they portrayed
as a violent thug and whatnot.
He is missing, there's no way

Joi (57:07):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.

Jann (57:10):
No way.
Absolutely not.

Joi (57:14):
Like they take people in on half the evidence, like it all
pointed to her.

Jann (57:19):
people in on zero evidence.

Didi (57:22):
you, like, you fit the description, so

Jann (57:25):
Yeah.

Didi (57:27):
Yeah.
Yep.

Jann (57:29):
Yeah, so that was another plot hole that was like, I just
don't understand at all what'shappening right now.

Didi (57:37):
And then her mom can be woke up.
It's just, it's too much.
Yeah.

Joi (57:41):
Yeah.

Jann (57:42):
woke up and then we already talked about how like
the entire book leading up tothem figuring out the echo game,
Cisco kept talking about therules as if it was hammered into
him every second, and then likethey broke all the rules and
nothing happened.

Didi (57:56):
No consequences.

Jann (57:59):
Yeah.

Didi (58:00):
And so then I wanna know, did that girl Olivia
miraculously get healed?

Jann (58:08):
That was just the Bronx.
All those other echoes, they'reon their own.

Joi (58:14):
Also, I'm thinking if it's the Bronx, like, you know how
they said that the echo wouldtake on a certain form?
Why was it a centipede and notlike a rat?

Didi (58:22):
Right.

Joi (58:22):
it should have been a rat.

Didi (58:25):
Right.

Joi (58:26):
I had no clue,

Didi (58:28):
But.

Jann (58:28):
Centipedes are creepier.
It's all the legs.

Joi (58:33):
I

Didi (58:33):
Yeah, they're, but I'll say like a cool thing was how,
like they could remember whatthe, um, Bronx looked like for
them, and then it would appear.
So, I don't know.
Like I feel like more could,could have been developed with
that.
That wasn't, so there was a lot.

Jann (58:50):
interesting to me because they said the school was a safe
place.
So when she imagined that tailorshop, had she just run into the
tailor shop, she would've beenfine because they can't go into
the future.
Right.

Joi (59:04):
that's true.

Didi (59:05):
Yeah.

Joi (59:05):
did say that.

Jann (59:06):
So weird.

Joi (59:07):
into the future.
What does that mean?
Never explain it.

Didi (59:12):
feel like there were so many missed

Joi (59:13):
I don't know.
It's like a lot of potholes.
I wish you had a little bitextra time to explain

Didi (59:19):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (59:19):
about it.

Didi (59:21):
I feel like.

Jann (59:21):
was a corduroy guy so unique?
Like he even said like, whyaren't they attacking me?
Yeah.
Even if he is a lure, Cisco wasa lure.
He didn't have any control.
He was dying fast.
This guy was a lure andapparently all the ghosts
listened to him.
Like when she said, why aren'tthey attacking me?
He was like, oh, it's becauseyou're with me.
What is your significance, sir?

(59:43):
Like what's happening here?
Like at first I thought he wasreally the slumlord, like
disguise, but no, he was just arandom lure.

Joi (59:53):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (59:53):
So weird.

Joi (59:55):
It was super weird.
Like it, it is just sometimes wetry to dissect stories that
weren't plotted out well.
It's just you're coming to adead end, and I think that's the
issue with this book.
Like

Didi (01:00:05):
you are.

Joi (01:00:05):
wasn't thought out all the way, like you started things and
never finished them, and that'sall.
all you can do.

Jann (01:00:12):
That's fair.

Joi (01:00:14):
I thought that being said, it's definitely not going on the
bookcase.

Jann (01:00:22):
You know, not all of them make it.
Not all of them make it.
Um, all right.
So anything else you guys wannabring up before we like, recap
our ratings and see if they'vechanged?

Joi (01:00:33):
Uh, the only thing I can, um, think about is just that
little conversation Raquel andErin had about winning Charlize,
and I was like, that's right outof Aladdin, you know, she even
said, oh, she's not a trophy.
She should get a saved too.
And I was just like, yeah,

Jann (01:00:48):
I am not apprised to be one.

Joi (01:00:52):
They just annoyed the hell outta me with this whole crush
shit.
Like, it was just, just leavethat out, you know?

Didi (01:00:56):
Yeah.

Jann (01:00:58):
It was very unbelievable For sure.

Didi (01:01:00):
It was not a strong enough connection to my motivation.

Joi (01:01:05):
nah, didn't care.
I didn't like it.

Jann (01:01:09):
So are you guys changing your ratings or is this still
two and a half?

Joi (01:01:13):
I'm, I'm bringing it down to a one star.
I,

Jann (01:01:16):
Ouch.
Alright.

Didi (01:01:16):
I was bringing it down to A too, I was like, lemme take
that half off.
I said, let me, uh, put thathalf point on just to be a
little bit nicer, but I'm takingit back.
I'm taking it back.
So just two,

Joi (01:01:35):
I feel bad'cause I know that this is his first story,
like this and

Jann (01:01:38):
first story?

Joi (01:01:40):
first story.
Yes.
And I'm just, it's just.
Every first time ain't a goodone.
You know, I appreciate youwriting black people into a
horror novel.
I'm glad you put some thoughtinto it, but I think just a
little bit more or a littleless, you know, keep it as
ghosts, you know, that's all youhave to do.
And figure out like how to putthem to rest.
Anything like that, you know,leave the romance out of it next

(01:02:02):
time.
Like you just don't need all ofthe elements into one story.

Didi (01:02:06):
They don't have like editors

Joi (01:02:08):
instead of doing five different plots and do them
half-ass.

Didi (01:02:11):
right.
Oh, they don't have like aeditor that will read this and
be like,

Jann (01:02:17):
Yeah, you would think the editor would've talked him outta
some of this stuff.

Didi (01:02:20):
yeah.

Joi (01:02:22):
yeah, you would think.
But you know, everyone hasdifferent tastes, everyone has
different flavors, but knowinghow many stories we've read and
how many books we've gonethrough, these are a few things
that we kind of pick up on alittle bit more now.

Didi (01:02:35):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (01:02:36):
So, you know, just food for thought.
You know, maybe someone else outthere gave five stars.
Who knows?
Maybe it's just wasn't for us.

Jann (01:02:45):
Okay, so I wanna change my rating.
I kind of do wanna bring it downto a two and a half, even though
I feel like that's very harsh totake away a whole star.
But yeah, I think I'm gonnaleave it at a two and a half.

Joi (01:02:56):
I took away a star and a half.
It doesn't start to go downhilltill like mid book, so.

Didi (01:03:04):
just going downhill.
I feel bad.

Jann (01:03:09):
Yeah.

Joi (01:03:10):
up one, nah.
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:03:14):
No, I'm gonna keep it at a two and a half and I feel
strongly I'm not taking away anymore stars.

Didi (01:03:22):
I think I'm giving one

Joi (01:03:24):
All right.

Didi (01:03:24):
the one star for, you know, this person attempting to
do a horror.
That's not easy, I don't think.
And a black horror.
And then the other star is, Ilike the idea of the echo.
That's it.

Joi (01:03:43):
Mm-hmm.

Didi (01:03:44):
But really, I think that could all be one

Joi (01:03:45):
Yeah.

Jann (01:03:46):
that's it.
That's fair.
That's fair.
All right, well I think thatpretty much wraps up this book.
Um, unless there are any otherfinal comments.

Joi (01:03:58):
Nah.

Didi (01:03:59):
Nope, I got all my thoughts out.

Jann (01:04:01):
well, if you want a chance to win this book, um, even
though we dragged it a littlebit, um, go ahead and, uh, give
us a review on wherever you'relistening to this on, um,
YouTube, Spotify, apple Podcast,wherever.
Give us a five star review,please, and then let us know
what book you would like us toreview.

(01:04:23):
and yeah, we'll do a drawing andif you win, we'll send you a
copy of the book.

Joi (01:04:27):
That's right.

Jann (01:04:28):
All right, so let me go ahead and announce the book for
next week.
It's called A Deadly Scoop byAbby Collette.
And it is a mystery, a deadlyinsight scoop.
So synopsis recent N B A grabBwin crest has taken over her
family's ice cream shop inChagrin Falls, Ohio, and she's

(01:04:49):
going back to basics.
When is renovating CrestyCreamery to restore its former
glory, and filling the menu withdelicious, homemade ice cream
flavors.
Many from her grandmother'soriginal recipes, but unexpected
construction delays means shemisses the summer season and the
shop has a literal cold openingthe day she opens her doors and
early snow descends on thevillage and keeps the customers

(01:05:13):
away to make matters worse.
That evening one finds a body inthe snow and it turns out the
dead man was a grifter with anold feud with a cruise family.
Soon when's father is implicatedin his death is not easy to
juggle a new to her businesswhile solving a crime, but when
is determined to do it.

(01:05:33):
With the help of her quirky bestfriends and her tight-knit
family, she'll catch the icecold killer before she has a
meltdown.

Joi (01:05:40):
That is a hell of a synopsis.

Jann (01:05:44):
First of all, I feel like we're from Ohio, so we know the
frustration with the snow andearly snows and just being cold
in general.
Um, but I love how many puns arein that synopsis,

Joi (01:05:55):
Yeah, yeah,

Jann (01:05:57):
the ice cold killer before she has a meltdown.

Joi (01:06:01):
yeah.
Very, very pun.
Punty.
Do you think it's gonna actuallybe a mystery?
I know we did a mystery beforein Jasmine, one of our guests,
podcasters said, no,

Jann (01:06:15):
I feel like since they already pointed out that there
is a murder and that they'retrying to figure out who it is,
I think it'll be a honest to Godmystery.
So,

Joi (01:06:23):
I hope so.
I got fingers crossed.

Jann (01:06:24):
We wanna hear your opinion, so write to us, Jody,
wanna tell'em where they canreach us?

Joi (01:06:30):
Yep.
You can reach us at Black GirlReads Podcast.
The black is spelled b l k.
On TikTok, Instagram and Gmail.
Um, on Twitter though is BlackGirl Reads Pod because podcast
is too long.

Jann (01:06:47):
All right.
And Deedee, do you wanna tellpeople where they can find you
if they wanna reach out?

Didi (01:06:52):
Yeah, so I am on Instagram and Facebook.
I do have a TikTok, but I don'tknow how to use that all that
well.
So just realized that you couldsend messages on me, so I'm like
so behind.
but I just go, as Deedee Etta onFacebook and Instagram if you
would like to follow me.

Jann (01:07:10):
Alright, well thank you everybody and I see you have a
cute baby there.
Hi.

Didi (01:07:16):
That's jj, my son say Hi,

Jann (01:07:19):
jj.

Didi (01:07:20):
He was like, no, I don't want it.

Jann (01:07:22):
Right?
He's like, what is this?
I did not sign up for this.

Didi (01:07:26):
Can you say hi?

Jann (01:07:29):
Hi.
All right.
Thanks so much for joining us.

Didi (01:07:36):
You are welcome.

Jann (01:07:38):
hopefully we'll get you one for another one,

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Rising from the Ashes: A Journey through 'Burn Down, Rise Up' | BLK Girl Reads Ep. 8

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rising from the Ashes: A Journey through 'Burn Down, Rise Up' | BLK Girl Reads Ep. 8