Searching for Answers: Delving into 'Mondays Not Coming'| BLK Girl Reads Book Club Podcast Ep. 6

Episode Transcript
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Jann (00:01):
Monday, Charles is missing and only Claudia seems to
notice.
Claudia and Monday have alwaysbeen inseparable.
We're like sisters and friends.
So when Monday doesn't turn upfor the first day of school,
Claudia's worried When shedoesn't show for the second day
of school or the second week,Claudia knows something is
wrong.
Monday wouldn't just leave herto endure tests and bullies
alone, not after last year'srumors and not with her grades

(00:23):
on the line.
Now Claudia needs her best andonly friend more than ever.
But Monday's mother refuses togive Claudia a straight answer.
And Monday's sister April iseven less help.
As Claudia digs deeper into herfriend's disappearance, she
discovers that no one seems toremember the last time they saw
Monday.
How can a teenage girl just vanwithout anyone noticing that

(00:44):
she's gone?
All right, welcome back to thepodcast everyone.
Um, so I'm here, your host, Jan.

Joi (00:57):
And I'm her joy.

Jas (01:00):
And I am Jasmine.
I'm visiting.

Jann (01:05):
all right, so we're all here to discuss the book.
Monday's not coming by.
Tiffany D.
Jackson.
So we'll start off as normalwith ratings.
So who wants to go first?

Jas (01:18):
And so what's the rating range again?

Joi (01:20):
one through

Jann (01:21):
do, yep.

Jas (01:23):
Okay,

Jann (01:24):
One out of five.

Jas (01:26):
And we're basing this, wait, one more thing.
Rating is based on the genre ofnovel, right?
That it is, which is a mysteryor just in

Joi (01:35):
what you thought overall of it.
Yeah.

Jann (01:37):
Yeah, that's what I normally do.
Like I, you know, it's like balike on, based on other
mysteries, since this is amystery, um, how do I think it,
um, holds up and just how muchyou enjoyed it.
Yeah, it's just overall rating.

Jas (01:52):
Okay.

Jann (01:54):
All right, joy, give us your rating,

Joi (01:56):
A five.
like it a lot.
And I got the book there becauseI liked it so much.

Jann (02:04):
Okay.
You wanna show us the book?

Joi (02:07):
It's on the

Jas (02:07):
No, we can't.

Joi (02:08):
It's part of the background.

Jann (02:10):
Okay.
All right.
Jazz, what would you rate it?

Jas (02:16):
I have read a lot of mystery novels and I'm a big fan
of this genre, and for this oneI'm giving it a two, two out of
five.

Jann (02:26):
Wow.

Joi (02:27):
wow,

Jas (02:28):
Yeah.
I'll get into my reasons.

Joi (02:31):
wow.

Jann (02:33):
Okay.
Okay, so

Joi (02:35):
this how you guys felt about me doing wedding date?
Giving it a one?
This is how it felt.
All right.
Go ahead.
Sorry.

Jann (02:44):
It is interesting that you say that because I don't read a
ton of mystery novels.
Um, and I feel like when youknow more about a genre, you
tend to rate it more harshly.
Um, but as far as this book, Icouldn't give it anything other
than a five.
Like, um, and I know I'm comingoff of rating Crescendo, which I
hated, so that could besomething to do with it.

(03:07):
Like, literally as soon as Ifinished that book, um, I turned
this one on and I just did notstop listening to it until it
was done, so I couldn't rate itanything other than a five.

Joi (03:17):
listened to it in one day.
I never turned it off.

Jas (03:22):
I am.

Jann (03:24):
All right.
So with that we're gonna startgetting into some spoilers.
So I just wanna give a quickspoiler alert for anyone who has
not read it and does not want itto be spoiled, which I wouldn't
suggest, um, getting this onespoiled for you because there
are some plot twists that comeup, um, yeah.
That you might wanna besurprised for.
So if you haven't read it, logoff, come back after you've read

(03:44):
it.
I'll give you a second.
Okay.
You should be gone.
So

Joi (03:52):
Get outta here, losers.

Jann (03:56):
joy, you wanna give us a quick recap of the book?
Look.

Joi (04:00):
All right.
Quick recap.
Basically we have Claudia and wehave Monday besties.
Um, Claudia has her mom and herdad that she lives with, and she
has, um, you have Monday who hasan older sister, April, a
younger brother Tuesday, ayounger brother August, and a

(04:20):
younger sister Tuesday.
and basically like Claudia andMonday are super best friends
ever since they were young.
They used to gotrick-or-treating together.
although the moms don't reallyget along, like they're kind of
like friends because their kidsare friends, you know?
Um, But Claudia's mom doesn'treally like her because it said
that like, maybe there's drugsgoing in and out the house, or

(04:43):
it is just an unsafeenvironment, pretty much, you
know?
So Claudia isn't even allowed togo over there without an adult
present.
Um, one day, Monday start ismissing after Claudia comes back
from summer break and she'slooking for her everywhere and
she just never turns up.
And the thing about it is thatno matter who she is, like she
can't get a straight answer fromanyone, you know?

(05:05):
Um, and eventually it comes outthat, you know, it's another one
of those books that go back andforth, back and forth.
But I think the way that it'sdone here, it makes a bit more
sense other than like, you know,other than, um, crescendo when
it was like just confusing.
This makes a little bit moresense when you're like, thinking
about it, you know what I mean?

(05:26):
Um, so it turns out, um, Monday,Is killed by her mom as well as
August is killed by the mom.
Um, and they're found later, butit just comes down to August and
Monday's been missing and noone's even noticed because
they're black kids pretty much.

(05:47):
And the system fails'em.
So that's what it is.
And turns out that Claudia islike, has P T S D, I think it
was about it.
So she forgets this is the thirdtime she forgot that Monday went
missing.
So she's actually in the book.
I think she's depicted as being14, but she's actually 16 going
on 17 and she's has theseepisodes and forgets that Monday

(06:09):
went missing.
So yeah, that's pretty much thebook Guinea middle end.

Jann (06:17):
Yeah.
Um, so before we actually startgetting into questions, just how
do you guys feel reading thebook?
Like

Joi (06:25):
It made me cry.
I hate it.

Jann (06:28):
cried too during this one.
I.

Joi (06:30):
Yeah.
Jasmine with her stone coldheart.

Jas (06:34):
I was, I was frustrated for majority of the book and
distressed because like my, Ifeel like, um, there's a lot of
things now that, um, hitdifferent as a parent.
So it was very difficult for meto listen to this.
Um, just thinking about my ownkid.
And reading this book.
So that's another part of it.

(06:55):
Um, I, I will say that thewriting was beautiful.
I thought it was, it wasexcellent.
And there was a part of me thatkept thinking, I hope she's not
dead.
I felt like she was, but I hope,you know, something happened
where she was just malnourishedor whatever.
And, um, I was just hoping thatthat wasn't the case.

(07:17):
But, um, yeah, that's,

Jann (07:20):
It's something about that, you know, like when you say
that, like I, I felt the sameway.
I kept hoping that she was okay,even though in the beginning she
said like, She went missing andthey found her a year later.
Like when I heard that at firstI was like, oh, they found her,
like they found her body, but itwas also like ambiguous enough
that I was like, maybe they justmeant that they found her and

(07:41):
that she was not okay, but okay.
You know?
Um, and the only at that remindsme of the first time I read
Weathering Heights.
Um, have you guys ever read thatbook?
I think at the beginning theytalk about how it's not like
there's no happy ending.
There's not a romance, but themain character, has sort of a

(08:02):
romance, like a on and off againromance.
Um, and he's just a villain,straight up villain.
But the whole time you're hopingthat he's gonna redeem himself,
even though they said at thebeginning, that's not gonna
happen.
Like, you still hold out hope.
That's how I felt with thisbook.

Joi (08:16):
I am, I I, I was hoping the whole time I thought she was
dead too until they, so Claudiasaid they found her a year later
and she had like marks, likescars all over her body.
And I was like, okay, well maybeshe was like, like you said,
mild nerves or something.
And then when she said, someonesaid, um, she kept taking out
flowers in the attic and thensomeone picked out at her from
the window when she came withher mom.

(08:39):
And then, um, the, the babyTuesday said that she always
plays with her, but she alwaysjust stays in the closet for
hide and seek.
And I was like, please let thisgirl be alive in the closet for
just like a year and a half.
As horrible as it is.
At least she's like alive, youknow?
Um, that wasn't the case.
Yeah, it was super sad though.

Jann (08:58):
Yeah, it's very traumatic

Jas (08:59):
sad.
Yeah.

Joi (09:03):
Yeah.
Um, you wanna do characters.

Jann (09:09):
Um, sure.
I know you really liked thatquestion.
Go ahead, joy.
What's your least and favoritecharacters?

Joi (09:18):
Obviously the least is the mom.
Um, Monday's

Jann (09:22):
Charles.

Joi (09:23):
Mm-hmm.
She sucks.
Um, and you know the thing aboutit too, like it was one of those
things where people made excusesfor her.
Like, you know, she loved herkids this whole time and maybe
it was the stress, maybe it'sthis, maybe it's that, but it's
still fucked up what she did.
and the way she was so cavalierat the end, and I think that's
what really got me when she waslike, yeah, I put her in the
closet for like a few days or afew weeks or whatever.

(09:45):
And whenever she asked forwater, she was getting too loud.
I was going there and kick her.
That was awful.
That like broke my heart when Iheard that too.
And I was like, that bitch, Iwanna put her in a closet and
kick her.
That's horrible.

Jann (09:58):
I feel like this book, like it's very obvious who
everyone's least favoritecharacter is, and as far as your
favorite, I feel like they'reall like, so.
Traumatized that it's unfair tokind of pick a favorite.
So like for this book at leastI'm like, I don't know if that's
a relevant question.
I mean, what do you guys feellike

Jas (10:20):
I

Joi (10:20):
say Miss.
Mm-hmm.

Jas (10:21):
I don't, Mrs.
Charles wasn't my least favoritecharacter because like when you
really break it down, I thinkthat I.
The, the, if we had to depict acharacter, it is the system like
that's the worst character hereis as far as like everyone is a
victim.
And it makes you wonder aboutwho are the victims here?
Literally everyone, includingMrs.
Charles, they said that, well,one, why does she have this

(10:45):
very, like all their reaction toa man hitting a woman?
And she had this reaction withMonday when she went to the
school and found out that shegot into a fight with a boy, and
then this is what she ended upkilling her own son for.
And to me, that comes from, shecomes from a, a history of

(11:05):
abuse.
What type of abuse ofrelationship was she in?
And, um, black women juststatistically are more abused
than any other group of women inthe United States.
So that's not a farfetched ideato think that, that she comes
from abuse, and this is hercoping with it, unfortunately
in, in causing this pain on herown children.

(11:27):
And if you think about it, doingharm to your children is
probably the most self-hate thatyou can possibly do.
Like this is someone that camefrom you and.
You are hurt, hurting them andharming them.
And then, you know, they eventalked about how this was her
snapping point the, thepossibility of eviction.
And even though like theyprobably lived there for a long

(11:48):
period of time and they werejust getting priced out of the
area.
So a lot of it just seems unfairand, I think it's a good view
into how different some people'scircumstances are.
And, and people talk about, oh,there's no difference and
there's equality when it comesto different, colors or
whatever.
And when you look at theeconomics like structure of a

(12:10):
lot of these things, just herbeing physically where she is,
being a black woman, being inproximity to other black people
who are also suffering.
It's like you only get moresuffering.
It's like, it's very difficultto break that cycle.
So in, in, in this realm, Idon't think she was the worst
character here.

(12:30):
I think she was also a victim ofher, of circumstance.
Like I feel the same way abouther, that I felt about April.
She was an adult.
Yeah, but I mean, she had fourkids that she was raising by
herself.

Jann (12:42):
she?
She was 17.

Jas (12:46):
No, I'm talking Mrs.
Charles, that's you.
I was saying you were, youdidn't, you didn't blame April
for what she did to Monday.
But I feel like there's nodifference between her and Mrs.
Charles.
Except for Mrs.
Charles as an adult.
And they're both like results ofthe same system that wants them
to destroy themselves.

Joi (13:06):
That's true.
I mean, I feel like the exactsame family and like give them
money, give them an affluentneighborhood, give them at least
what Claudia and her family had,and I don't think it would've
happened honestly.
Just needs to have a little bitbetter to avoid a lot of
tragedy, and that's really sad

Jas (13:22):
And what's interesting too is like Mrs.
Was, she had a values system,Mrs.
Charles.
Like she came in there ready tofight.
It almost seemed like she'sready to fight the kid.
She was ready to fend herdaughter in this situation.
And this was something that sether off like, no, I'm not gonna
let this happen.
Where there's another little boywho thinks it's okay to hit

(13:43):
women.
So, you know, as bad as she was,she did have a value system that
as little as we've heard of heror heard her talk, that they
were able to develop thatcharacter for her that well.

Joi (13:58):
Do you think if she had like the help, like the therapy
that she needed to obviously getover the trauma, like do you
think that this would stillhappen?
Like even though she was stillstressed out, even though the
whole thing about gentrifyingthe neighborhood and them
getting kicked out, like there'ssome people who are in the same
circumstances that stillwouldn't harm their kids like
that.
You know, it's kids aboveeverything.

(14:19):
That's why I work three or fourjobs just to make it through,
and I just don't see people evenin the most horrible situations,
putting their kids in thefreezer at the end of the day.
You know what I

Jas (14:28):
true.
We don't know how crazy she was.
And the thing is, like we'veheard different stories about
Mrs.
Charles, like when April talkedabout how she had to convince
her mom to take classes, shewent, she could've just let them
be in the system, but she caredenough about her kids to go
through a bunch of classes andget them out of, the foster care

(14:48):
system.
So either she had some redeemingqualities about her, or she was
a different person earlier on.
Years in this story, But yeah,I, I, I feel like you, you, you
can say that all day.
Like, well, I don't think Iwould do this in this situation.
I think a lot of people saythat, but if you've never had

(15:10):
that pow on of all the differentthings that can work against
you, you really don't know whatyou would do in that situation.
And I think that's somethingthat we take for granted because
we don't realize how many thingshave had to go right for us in
order to end up where we are.
Right?
You have to think about thepeople around you who did you a
favor, someone who's looking outfor you that didn't have to look

(15:33):
out for you.
someone having a good day andsaying, you know, I'm gonna give
her this better grade because Iknow she's been working hard.
Or someone who just sees you.
They see that you're working todo something with yourself.
And unfortunately, all of thosethings, Work in the opposite.
For some people, and I, I saythis as a black woman because I
feel like we're in greatproximity to that a lot.

(15:56):
If it's not happening directlyto us, I see it specifically
with black men.
Like when I went to school,there was always one black boy
that all the teachers despise.
He would probably be a jokesteror something, but like they, he
never got a chance.
They always like assumed theworst.
And there was definitelyopportunities where he didn't do
anything wrong, but he was theblame because that's just his,

(16:18):
that's what he's been typecastas.
And he's a child.

Jann (16:21):
that point.
Yeah.

Jas (16:23):
He's a child.
And that for that person, how dothey ever get out of that?
How do you ever get to a pointwhere I want to focus on
academics, I want to do better.
I want to not be in this, thismold that I have been made in
when your brain is stilldeveloping, you know?
So, um, yeah.

Jann (16:41):
you learn from such an early age that the system is
going to fail you and not helpyou.
And like you need to avoid themas much as possible in order to
be okay.
Yeah.

Jas (16:51):
Absolutely.

Jann (16:51):
I just wanna circle back really quick to your question,
joy too, about like, if she gottherapy, would it have ended up
the same?
and I would say it's, it is veryhard to say.
I feel like had she gone totherapy, she could have been
better, but if she had not beenlike, what are the systems in
place?
For her kids to be okay.
Like I feel like the therapistshould reach out and tell, c p

(17:13):
s, Hey, I'm worried for thesekids.
But c p s was notified multipletimes and that still didn't
help.
So would it happen better?
It's still very hard to say.
and I feel like that's a hugetheme in this book is just the
systems in place like failingthese kids and the people.
Jasmine, to your point, Mrs.
Charles too was failed quite abit.

(17:33):
but let's just think reallyquickly.
Like they had the school systemwho did not report that Monday
didn't show up.
they had the police, she went togo see and he pretty much blew
her off and said, you're wastingmy time.
Look at all these real problemsthat I have.
And obviously the c p s who likeis a system specifically for
this, they were supposed to bedoing visits and the house was

(17:56):
unlivable.
Like had, they done one checklike they were supposed to be,
They probably all would've beenpulled out and could've avoided
all this.
Like the kids were smelling likeurine.
a lot of the time.
I know they said August andTuesday had that issue, and even
Monday at one point came toschool smelling like urine.
yeah, there, there were just somany systems in place and not to

(18:17):
mention the gentrification thatwas happening, that Jasmine, as
you pointed out, could have beenher snapping point.
And that's how I interpreted it.
just because of the way that shereacted to that person, being in
an abusive relationship.
I didn't consider it like that.
She did have a thing about abusein that way, so that could have
been a part of her past.

(18:38):
But, I saw it as that's when shewas, well, you know, like, and
she was an advocate for speakingup for people who are in an
abusive system because theycan't speak up for themselves.
and then I felt like she likeslowly dissented into this like,
Hysteria, I guess is the bestword to or best way that I can
think to describe it right now.

(18:58):
Or like insanity where she isactually the abuser, and
probably not lucid enough toreally realize what she's doing.
so yeah.
Out of all those systems, how,which one infuriated you the
most?
Because across the board, like Iwas mad the whole time, like, I
cannot believe that not onesystem in place has helped this

(19:20):
girl.
and I can believe it, which issad, but still

Joi (19:25):
I think the thing that got me the most was, um, Ms.
Valenti, she was my favoritecharacter by the way.
She, went out of her way forthese ex that these students
that she used to have.
They're like, yeah, I rememberher.
Like, of course, what do youmean she's not in school?
You know, she was a goodstudent.
She not only reported it to c ps and the police and went over
there twice, way more than whata teacher is.

(19:48):
Contracted to do, with me beingin these classes, for teaching
elementary students.
It's a, what is it called?
Mandatory reporter.
So when Monday went to schoolsmelling like pee, she looked
like she was traumatized overthe weekend when she got after
that fight or whatever, everyoneshould be reporting that shit to
c p s and just from the amountof people reporting it, the C P

(20:10):
Ss should have went over thereand we get this, um, you get
this a lot.
I've, I've looked into a lot of,different cases just from
curiosity's sake and I hate thatI have to do it.
But, I remember, GabrielFernandez, that case, on
Netflix, that one still hauntsme to this day.
Every once in a while I get realsad thinking about it because
there

Jann (20:29):
I refuse to watch

Joi (20:30):
looking out for him.
Yeah, it's horrible.
It's, it's just a horrible case.
And it's literally this storypretty much, and it's sad.
And the system filled him too.
The teachers, even though, um,there was one that was almost
like Ms.
Ante, and she was like, stayhere longer, you can stay here
with me.
You know, just trying to lookout for him.

(20:52):
And the system literally justlike pushed them to the, to the
side, you know?
And you get these cases whereyou have people like, you know,
we're in a happy home, we're ina loving home, but C P Ss took
my kids, or they're harassingus.
And that's what really makes meupset too, because you'll have c
p s looking into the wrongcases, you know, and, and going

(21:12):
after families that don't needthe help.
Like they're being weaponizedhalf the time.
I don't look into the cases thatneed it.
So I think that when it comes toc P s, I can't even understand
what the detective, like, look,I got a wall of missing girls.
I'm trying to find them too.
Unless you can actually reportsomething for me.
Like he could have went overthere for like at least a
wellness check, you know,especially after

Jann (21:34):
feel like even, like, not even just the wellness check,
the way he was condescending toher, you know, after she said
like, he's, she's not missinglike that.
Like he could have said, what doyou mean?
Like what?
Like can you explain a littlebit more?
These are some things to lookout for and if you see this come
back, but you know, you needthat.
Like, but what he did was say,do you see these are real cases,

(21:57):
these are missing girls reallylook at this wall.
This is what I should bespending my time on.
Like you are pretty much wastingmy time, is what he said to her.
So,

Joi (22:05):
And when he say you need a parent to, to report, I like
that doesn't make any sense.
Anyone can report a kid missing.
'cause Well, if the parentskilled him.
Like in this case, you know?
So it, it didn't make sense tome what he said.
And then, I think it was reallyinteresting to see it all from
Claudia's point of view, becauseshe's a kid going through this,

Jas (22:25):
That was my, that was my thought too.

Joi (22:27):
yeah, as an adult, it's hard enough to get someone to
take it seriously, but as a kidit's even worse.
'cause you have to convince theadults to take you seriously.

Jas (22:36):
That's a system that I thought failed the most, the
parent adult relationship.
And I think this is a veryAmerican thing that like you
don't listen to your kids, kidsdon't talk to adults like, and
Claudia even mentioned that afew times, like being in adult's
business or talking to adult,talking to adults, like she's
one of them.
And I've always thought that wasthe stupidest thing because it's

(22:58):
like you have to interact withadults.
And I know children are notadults, but I feel like they
don't get respect.
That they deserve in regard tolike bodily autonomy or just
being listened to or just, justanything.
And it's a frustratingexperience to go through that
and not have someone listen toyou when this is, it is

(23:20):
important.
It's important to you because asyour best friend, but also this
could be someone's life.
And then there was another themegoing on about like, well, you
don't wanna mine other people'srelationships.
You don't wanna get in otherfamily's business.
That's their business.
You don't wanna deal with that.
And I know one of theconversations that Mrs.
Was it Mrs.
Charles was having withClaudia's mom about like, what

(23:43):
are we gonna do if something, ifhe kills her?
Like we have to do somethingabout it.
And I couldn't believe thatClaudia's mom was taking this
very passive approach to thislike that.
That definitely surprised me.
But I, to your point, Jan, Ithink that was a develop a
character development moment forMrs.
Charles because.

(24:03):
She was speaking the truth,like, yeah, like you wanna say
something, if you noticesomething is going wrong in
someone's family, which is ahuge coincidence that someone
needed to do that for her familybecause there was abuse
happening there.
But, um, yeah, I, I, systems, Ifelt the most, I say it was
parents not listening to kids.

(24:23):
And I, I think that's somethingthat should be revalued and
people should listen to kidsmore.
So what they're saying and what,what's real to

Jann (24:32):
that whole dynamic too.
Like I completely agree witheverything you're saying, but
even like within that family,like I feel like it's something
to be said about like therelationship with, the mom and
the father as well.
Claudia's mom and dad, like themom seemed to like after time,
like try to take it moreseriously.

(24:54):
and the dad kept saying you bothneed to drop this.
Or I don't wanna get involved.
And like his word was final.
And I feel like that's alsobullshit that you see in like a
lot of relationships where theman's word is final and like you
don't really talk things out.
Like the only time she won anargument is when she snapped at
'em, and that was just to get aphone number.
So I feel like that's alsosomething that was hindering

(25:16):
them.
And I know you said Americanfamilies jazz.
I feel like it's AfricanAmerican families in particular,
or like just minority families.
I guess it would be the thingwhere like you're not meant to
speak back to your parents orlike if you say something at the
wrong time when adults weretalking, then you were in
trouble.
And yeah, that, that'sdefinitely like a recurring

(25:39):
theme.
Mm-hmm.

Joi (25:40):
not to mention too, that age gap between the parents kind
of creeped me out too when he

Jann (25:46):
was the age gap?

Joi (25:47):
When Claudia said that her parents, they got married when
Claudia's mom was 18 and the dadwas 29.
That's like me marrying an 18year old.

Jas (25:57):
Yeah.
They're a decade apart.
They're a decade apart.
Yeah.

Joi (26:02):
Not to mention like, not just a decade.
It is different when you're 30and 40, I think anyway, than 18
and 29.
I was like, that's weird, youknow?
'cause not only did you getmarried, you had to be dating
when she was a teenager, likeyoung.

Jann (26:17):
he got married, they were six.
They got married six monthsafter they started dating, so
she could have been 18, butthat's still ridiculous.
So.

Joi (26:27):
Yeah.
So maybe like that whole, likemy word is final two, like that
age difference came into play.
And that's also probably why,Claudia's mom was like, Hmm,
maybe we should check in.
'cause she was like, maybe it'sjust like, you know, could see
it from a different perspectivethan the dad would.
And because the, like, you know,they both work.
Um, The dad wasn't there all thetime.

(26:48):
He was a trucker, so he probablywas just like, listen, I'm tired
when I'm home.
I wanna sleep, I wanna eat, andthat's it.
You know, I don't wanna hearabout the bullshit going on in
the neighborhood, you know, whenit could just easily be like
girls falling out, you know?
So,

Jas (27:04):
Which is also a dismissive approach.

Joi (27:06):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (27:07):
Yes,

Jas (27:07):
the, like would you have the same reaction if your
daughter was a son?
Right?
Like

Jann (27:12):
exactly.
Probably would've got a lot morerespect.

Joi (27:16):
Mm-hmm.

Jas (27:17):
as far as like a friendship.
Well, I believe him.
I believe that if he's sayingthat this wouldn't happen and
they're friends, like maybe weshould look into it.
So yeah, there was somethinggoing on there too.
I think the other part thatmakes it difficult for Claudia
is that she has trouble withcommunicating and she's super
self-conscious about herintelligence and, even the way

(27:39):
she talked to the policeofficer, like she wasn't very
clear as far as what she wastalking about.
And, um, instead of showing herpatience, because you obviously
notice like there's something,there's something know with this
girl, she's not a goodcommunicator, right?
And she, if she's not a goodcommunicator and she's coming

(27:59):
into the police station, it hasto be something that's serious
for her because a person that'snot a good communicator would
not put themselves in thissituation where it's.
Obviously intimidating, so theresponse shouldn't be to
intimidate them more.
So I think just having a littlebit of empathy to the situation

(28:20):
and just under, and not evenempathy, emotional intelligence
enough to know that this is aperson that must be in distress
because she's coming in herewithout a parent and she does
not communicate well, and she'sasking for help for her friend.
So that enough would've beenenough.
Like you would treat anyonewho's in distress and coming in

(28:41):
and saying, Hey, I'm having ahard time.
I need you to check on thisperson.
I, I don't know what happened tothem, they're missing.
So yeah, just the dismissivenessin, in general, was frustrating.
And honestly, I remember, Iremember being that age and
feeling like you're not getting,no one is listening to you.
Absolutely no one.
You can talk to your teachersand they're dismissive.

(29:02):
You can talk to your parents.
They're dismissive.
You can talk to your aunts anduncles.
No one's really listening toanything you're saying.
You know, like what, you know,they say, oh, you're little
problems.
You're little girl problems.
And, you know, it's not that bigof a deal.
And I just don't, yeah.
It was just a reminder like,don't be like this with kids.
Like what they have to saymatters.

(29:23):
Um, and what they have tocontribute is important to them.
This is their entire world.
They don't know anything else,you know?
And like, Even if her

Joi (29:33):
little people.

Jas (29:35):
Exactly.
Even if her friend was justsick, like that's a, that's
traumatizing enough that I onlyhave one friend and then they're
not there.
I also didn't like how herparents were when it came to her
only having one friend.
Her reaction, her mom's reactionto that, she's like, this is my
only friend that I have, mom.
She's like, no, you have friendsand like she just told you she
don't have friends.

(29:55):
Like, don't you listen to justlisten to her?

Jann (29:58):
Crying.
Yeah.

Jas (29:59):
Yeah.
I was so frustrated by that.
Yeah.
So yeah, there's just a lot ofthings like that that frustrated
me.

Joi (30:07):
The whole damn thing was frustrating, honestly.
I think with our generation too,with, raising kids, we see kids
as humans.
We see kids as like, you know,when people used to say like,
I'm mean to my kids, prettymuch, because the world's gonna
be mean.
I see so much more now whenpeople are like, well, why would
you also wanna be mean?
Don't you wanna be the safeplace when they come home to and

(30:29):
talk to you about these kind ofthings?
Um, it was another thing.
So I know that Monday had ajournal that she used to write
in and people, um, on TikTokespecially now are talking about
like, how just please don't readyour kids' journals.
Don't do that.
Like if they trust you, what youshould have, like have their
trust anyway with them growingup with you, they will tell you
something major is happening.

(30:50):
'cause a lot of the excuses,like, you know, something's
major happening, I want to knowwhat's happening in their lives.
You know, but that's arelationship that you should be,
you know, fostering since theywere born.
That they can trust you,something is going on.
Um, I don't know, it's just thiswhole just makes you like, kind
of think like what you wanna doas a parent and do better for

(31:13):
your kids, you know?

Jann (31:15):
Funny that you should say that.
'cause you just said like, don'tread your kid's journal.
I was like, no, why would I dothat?
And then I started thinkinglike, well if my kids started
being a little shady though,like there's not much I wouldn't
do to try to figure out what'sgoing on.
Um, so I don't know.
I feel like I might cross thatboundary if I had to.
Like I read their journal.

Jas (31:35):
That's so funny you say that Joy, because I, I was just
talking to Chris about thisyesterday.
Like I feel like there's a lotof things I experienced in
childhood that made me who I amtoday and it, it helped me
develop grit.
And when I think about what I dothose same things to my son,
hell no.
No, absolutely not.
I would never, and I think thatthere's a lot of, there,

(31:55):
everyone needs a point in lifewhere they need to know to push
through hardship.
You need to know to push and youneed to know like even though it
hurts, even though it sucks,like you still have to work a
little bit harder to get to thefinish line.
And for a lot of parents, Ithink in our generation, That
was corporal punishment.
That was, you have to do thisthing.

(32:16):
That's horrible.
and that's it.
And that was pretty much, Idon't feel like there were a
whole lot of positiveexperiences I had with learning
grit growing up.
And when I think about timeswhere I did learn grit, where I,
I enjoyed it was like runningtrack or doing karate, like
doing things like that.
But never like with doingchores, you know, we weren't
rewarded for cleaning the houseor, you know, I don't know,

(32:41):
doing anything that we needed todo.
There was nothing on the otherside of that that made it
enjoyable for me to make me wantto internalize doing work.
And that's a problem because youdon't even, you don't even put
that together.
And on top of that, you're, youare ruining your relationship
with your child because now theylook at you like you're the
disciplinarian.

(33:01):
Why would I go to thedisciplinarian and tell'em my
secrets?

Joi (33:05):
Exactly.
Yeah.

Jas (33:07):
I wouldn't do that.
It makes no

Joi (33:08):
honest.
You can't be honest with thembecause it's like, well,
obviously I was out doingsomething I wasn't supposed to
do, but you know, if I tell'emabout this or something that
happened while I was doing that,I'm getting in trouble anyway.
And I feel like, um, thecommunication needs to be there
from when they're very young andjust show them, like it's, no
one's gonna beat you if you dosomething wrong.

(33:29):
And as an adult, you know, it'sgonna be an equal punishment to
go with the, you know, the, um,whatever.
But you never want'em to belike, I can't talk to my parents
because it's gonna turn to alecture or, or they're gonna hit
me.
You know?
So

Jas (33:42):
Or it puts them in a dangerous situation.
Like Claudia went to amurderer's house and was there
with her parents not knowingwhere she was.
If they had an opencommunication, if they had
listened to her, she would'venever been over there by
herself.
She, it would've never happened.

Jann (34:02):
That's, that's definitely a good point.
not only like could they hit meor give me a lecture, like just
the thought of being dismissedand not taken seriously too is
enough to like not go to yourparent for something.
So it doesn't even have to be onthe extreme.
Just if I feel like I'm notgoing to be taken seriously,
then I might skip it.

Joi (34:19):
Or then when, um, when you said that she went to her house,
eventually the mom went withher, but it was after she cried
to her.
You know, it had to come outtaClaudia, and then the mom still
had to be like, well, I want youto join this church group, or
whatever.
You know, it was like this andthis.
It's just like, no, I wanna dothis for you.
I wanna support you and lookingfor your best friend, obviously,

(34:40):
you know, go over there andcheck it out,

Jann (34:42):
I hated that she made her join the group, but that was
less sinister to me than whenthe dad said that she can't talk
about Monday anymore until hergrades are up.
After knowing that she had alearning disability like this,

Joi (34:54):
Yeah.

Jas (34:55):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (34:55):
why would you ever say you have to come overcome this
disability before I care aboutyour friend?
Like that was just off on me.

Jas (35:04):
that was interesting too.
I don't think they understoodthe disability and they were
just so like upset about it.
And I hate that.
I hate that.
That's parents' reactions tolearning that their, your kid is
struggling because now Claudiafeels like she's in trouble.
Right.
And it's something that's out ofher control to fix

Joi (35:22):
she feels stupid.
She said she went to the stupidkids class, but that's on the
teachers too.
They didn't give them any kindof pamphlets, any kind of
information for dyslexia.
They had this whole meeting whenthey could have had this
paperwork for her and just like,oh, look at this.
It's different from when Mondaywas around who was doing her
work.
It turned into a veryaggressive, very accusatory
meeting.
Instead of going like, Hey,look, here's the paperwork.

(35:44):
Here's what we can do.
It's not impossible to overcome.
So that's on the teachers aswell.
Like here's some info for theparents, you know?

Jann (35:51):
Yeah, I don't understand why Claudia was even in that
meeting, to be honest with you.

Joi (35:57):
Me either.

Jann (35:59):
I'm not saying don't involve her, but I feel like
definitely talk to the parents,get them to understand the
situation before you bringClaudia in so that it's not like
traumatizing the way that itwas.
it that's just this whole thingon itself.
Like the sy the school systemfeeling Claudia with her
dyslexia and not explaining tothem,, I feel like with all

(36:22):
schools, like some of thesecommon, like learning
disabilities should be commonknowledge.
Have assemblies on it.
Like, Hey, if you're having thisissue, you might not be alone.
come to this place for help, youknow?

Joi (36:34):
okay, so this goes into my teaching, um, two that I've
learned.
This is a whole new thing.
So they've been doing this, doit that way for a while.
Now there's different tests thatyou can kind of like do on the
side.
Like you send home letters toparents, like, Hey, we're gonna
test your kid on this day aboutthis certain'cause We're
concerned about learning about,like the reading or the writing

(36:56):
or the math.
Literally anything you can say,Hey, we're gonna test them on
this.
the kids probably won't evenknow.
We might just put it as like,you know, just another
standardized test for them.
So they won't think that theyhave to do like super well or
study or something like that.
We just wanna see where they'reat and how we can help.
And even then there's, there'slayers.
You won't automatically have togo to a learning.
Um, A special learning class.

(37:18):
They have kids go in and out sothat there's different ways for
them to teach, learn withstudents their age with a little
bit more, ability.
'cause also shows they can learnwell with their classmates, but
then also take'em to the side tomake sure that they're keeping
up so they're not juststruggling all day in that
class.
So there's different layers todoing it, but that's all pretty

(37:39):
new, like I'm thinking like lastsix or seven years, so,

Jas (37:43):
Wow.
And it makes sense to do it thatway.

Joi (37:46):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (37:48):
So, circling back really quick, um, jazz, you felt like
the parent-child relationshipwas, the most filled, like awful
system, or the biggest breakdownof communication If you were
Claudia's parents, at what pointwould you have gotten involved,
like more involved in findingMonday?

Jas (38:08):
Um, I think the second time I.
That Claudia came to me andsaid,'cause I know the first
time she's like, oh, well maybeshe's sick.
You know how she was sick beforethe second time she came to me
and said that she still wasn'tthere.
'cause by the time she came toher the second time and she saw
that she was looking for a phonecall and stuff, and she hadn't
heard from her all summer, Iwould've done something.

(38:29):
I would've asked her aroundlike, well, when's the last?
She didn't even ask her anyquestions either.
Like, well, when's the last timeyou talked to her?
Huh?
And that I would've brought itup at that point too, like,
yeah, she reached out to mebefore and when I learned that
the mom knew something was upand then a household, and then
the first time, the first timeClaudia told her that she didn't

(38:51):
come to school.
That is when I'm like you, thisis on your hands too, because
you knew something.
Well, you alerted C P Ss andyour daughter's telling you she
hadn't heard from her all summerand she didn't show up to
school.
I would've been at that door thefirst day, that very first day
when she told me she wasn'tthere.
So yeah, I think they justdidn't wanna deal with it.

(39:13):
I think she was still living inthat whole mentality, like, I
know something bad happened andI don't wanna have to deal with
that because then my daughter'sgonna be worrying or having to
go through the trauma.
I think they were putting offthe trauma, honestly.
I knew they knew something badhappened, whether she had ended
up in the system or she had beenhurt or she had to go live
somewhere else, they justdidn't, they would have rather

(39:34):
her hang out with other peoplethan have to deal with the drama
of it, even though she wasalready suffering.

Jann (39:41):
Joy.
You might know more about thisfrom, you know, your studying
with being a teacher, but what Ididn't understand is she said
that she lied, like she admittedthat she lied to Claudia because
she thought that c p s may havecome and taken her out of the
household.
Can't you call if you were madea like report like that and
follow up to see if that werethe case?

Joi (40:02):
Yep.
Or even, I think that whatreally sucks too about this is
that the mom has some sort ofrelationship with Mrs.
Charles.
So she could've easily gonelike, you know, Claudia is in
Atlanta for the summer, but letme go check on the baby.
Lemme go see like, you know, howthe mom is doing.
See where her head is at afterseeing that kind of like
reaction to the daughter comingout of the car.

(40:23):
Anytime during that summer andthe way that I'm set up, I'll be
like, yeah, lemme just go seethem all.
Like, let's make some excuse togo see how they're doing.
And at the very least, if, if.
Claudia came home and said, Hey,I never, I haven't talked to,
um, Monday all summer.
You know, this isn't like the1950s.
I'm like, what the fuck you meanEver talk to her all summer?

(40:43):
And I feel like, okay, even if Icame up with the idea like she
was sick before, maybe she'ssick again.
Let's get a care basket.
You know, let's get some suit,let's get some crackers and
bring it over and go check andmake sure everything's okay.
And then as an adult you can belike, Hey, the house is fucked
up.
Where's the kids?
You know, that's when you cantake you and your daughter and
go file a police report, at thevery least.

(41:04):
'cause she called c p s beforeand they didn't do anything.
So it's just like there'sdifferent layers as an adult
that she could have done, andit's unacceptable.

Jann (41:11):
And there's also, we like welfare checks.
You

Joi (41:15):
yeah.
Yeah.

Jann (41:17):
where they have to see the person.
Like any of those things couldhave helped, like the tiniest
bit of care.
and you know, they had aquestion at the end of the book
where it was like, who'sultimately responsible for
people?
are you responsible for your ownsafety and that's it, or is it
your family or is it thecommunity?
I think that's a really goodquestion.
Anyone, even the neighbor saidthat she was su suspicious

(41:39):
because she didn't hear hercrying.
first of all, that's awful thatthat's your indicator that
something's wrong if someone'snot crying.
Um, but you could've didsomething like anyone at any
point could have done something.

Jas (41:52):
Well, to me that was a sign that corporal punishment is
still embedded in the blackcommunity and it needs to stop.
And a lot of other neighborssaid, they kept hearing about,
oh, we always knew she wasbeating her kids, but we beat
our kids.
So we didn't think it was thatbig of a deal.
So they didn't, you can't tellthe difference between when
someone is over the top orthey're beating their children

(42:15):
to death and just beating yourkids in general.
Like, it's hard.
How do you get, when do you getinvolved when this is our
culture to beat our children?
I,

Joi (42:24):
I think that question at the end really made me realize,
like, you know, I.
Raising kids as a community isso much better than just as like
a family, like a nuclear familybecause you have people looking
in, or not only the kids, butyou have people looking in on
the parents.
Parenting is hard, you know,people go like, you know, I need
a fricking break, you know?

(42:45):
Um, you know, please take thesekids for just like a week.
Maybe, you know, I need to havesome time.
Especially the fact that ithappened over summer.
And you see a lot of that toowith child abuse cases where it
goes over the top and kids diebecause they don't have that.
Were pre for school from theparents.
You know, the break for theparents really makes a big

(43:05):
difference.
That's why you see a lot ofthings that happened over covid.
Things got real bad for kids in,in abusive situations, not
including.
Parents in abusive situations,you know, because they don't get
that break during the day, youknow?
So, um, I think that raisingchildren in a community that
looks out for each other, Ithink that's when it really, um,

(43:26):
is important.
So, I know personally, I want tohave a community when raising
kids for the, for my own mentalhealth and for the kids too.
Like, if they can't talk to meor they feel like it's, you
know, they, they don't want toget in trouble with me.
Look, I don't know if they'llfeel that way or not, but I want
them to be able to talk tosomebody in our community to
make sure everyone's safe.
And just like with otherpeople's kids, I want them to be

(43:47):
able to come to me so I can help'em as the adult, you know, in
the situation.
Not saying that, you know,everyone has the right advice,
but at least it's something,

Jas (43:56):
one thing I will throw in there is like Claudia's mom to,
while we're talking about her,because one more I'm thinking
about it.
She was probably my leastfavorite character.
Um, they, one point someonecalled her like, your stuck up
mom, April, you and your stuckup mom.
Um, and when I think about, whenI think back because the, we're

(44:16):
seeing Claudia's mom throughClaudia's eyes.
Right.
But when you start seeing herinteractions with other people
in the community, then you startseeing a different picture of
what her mom is like.
She's very involved in thechurch, she's very involved with
her business, with like givingout food and things like that.
But she definitely had thisjudgmental approach to everyone.

(44:39):
Even when she was talking about,um, Monday's mom, like, she was
like, my kid doesn't fight.
And Monday's mom was telling herlike, well, they were just doing
what they needed to do.
Like no little boy shouldn'thave put their hands on them.
And so I was, I was 100% whatMonday's mom, on when they got
into the fight compared toClaudia's mom and then her whole

(45:00):
situation, like she was so warmand kind to Monday on an
individual basis when, Claudiawas sleeping.
And to your point, joy, whywouldn't she?
She knows Claudia, she knowsMonday comes from this
household.
That's kind of messed up.
She knows Claudia's outta.
Like, you know, with hergrandmother for the whole
summer, why wouldn't she checkin on Monday occasionally,

(45:22):
especially if Monday went out ofher way to come see her by
herself without Claudia there,like she should have been
checking in on her by herselfover the summer.
I feel like that she had aresponsibility to do that,
because she has a relationshipwith her.
They have their own individualrelationship Monday and
Claudia's mom, and she felt herin that regard.

Joi (45:40):
there could have been a number of ways that Claudia's
mom could have stepped in.
You know?
I feel like they're being soclose since they were kids.
That relationship is there too.
It could have been like, HeyMrs.
Charles, you know I'm sendingClaudia to Atlanta.
I need a break from this kid.
You wanna send Monday with her?
You know, or even just like,Hey, you know, I was thinking
about having a girl's day.

(46:00):
What, what do you think about mebringing um, your girls to get
their nails done with me andjust spending the night, maybe,
you know, it could've beenanything throughout the summer,
but for her to just, or evenwhen she saw the reaction when
Monday got out the car with themom.
'cause they were outside whenshe was yelling at her like
that, like, you know what?
Hey Monday, go pack a bag.
Lemme talk to your mom.
Maybe you can stay with me for afew days while she cools off.

(46:21):
It's no way I would've had thatkind of reaction, saw it and
stood in the car and then droveaway.
I was like, let me diffuse thesituation.
Get the kid out of thesituation.
Get the mom who obviously I havea relationship with to cool
down.
Everyone's heated right now.
Let me just diffuse.
But she didn't do

Jann (46:37):
don't

Joi (46:37):
of

Jann (46:38):
why she didn't get out of the car too, and like, honestly,
that could've been the one thingthat would've saved her because
didn't Mrs.
Charles say that she thought shewas getting out of the car with
a boy?

Jas (46:47):
Yeah.

Jann (46:48):
her off.
Had you just got out of the carand said, Hey, what's the
problem?
Or How can I help you?
Could've that.
That could've been it.
Like, I mean, August at thatpoint was already in the
freezer, but you could've savedMonday in so many ways.
There were so many times whereyou could've stepped in.

Joi (47:05):
And that's sad too.
No one looked for August.
Nobody, no questioned except forClaudia.
No one looked for him.
And that's even sadder.
Like at least she had Claudialooking for Monday.
No

Jas (47:17):
Claudia was looking for August.

Joi (47:19):
Well, yeah, was but that's

Jas (47:21):
too.

Joi (47:21):
Mm-hmm.
But that's it.
And it doesn't make any sense.
Like, so we all know the c p sflat outlied, right?
They said that the house wasfine.
They said the kids were in thehouse.
They said that the kids weregetting homeschooled.
Who's going to pr?
Like there was no kind ofepilogue about the C P Ss
getting looked into in thatneighborhood.
Nobody.

Jann (47:41):
And that's honestly like the biggest theme of this book
is just the fact that like, um,and I saw an interview with
Tiffany D.
Jackson talking about this, um,where she said, and this is
obviously like universal, um,here in the us like when white
kids go missing, they're allover the news.
When a black kid goes missing,like that whole wall was full of
black girls and they keptdismissing it and saying, well,

(48:04):
maybe they ran away.
People run from their problems.
Like, that's what the cop said.
That made me so angry.
Um, and unfortunately that ishow it is in black communities.
Like we, the systems don'treally look out for us, um, at
all.
So this book was actually basedoff of a real case in Detroit
where two siblings were beingabused.

(48:25):
The system felt them repeatedlyand then they were unfortunately
eventually found in a freezer.
So completely awful.
But it's not like someone canlook at this book and say it's
exaggerated, like this happensway too often.

Jas (48:38):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (48:39):
I, I wouldn't have even to known about that case to know
that something extremely similarto this had to have happened
because it's just, it's too easyat this point.
If you're a bad actor in acommunity and you have kids
around you, something like thisis going to happen, especially
when you have no kind of followup.
And that's where the communitycomes in.
Again, you know, what if just,what if Claud, you know, Claudia

(49:02):
didn't get out the car, notClaudia Claudia's mom didn't get
out the car, but the neighborsalso knew something was up with
the babies.
'cause they're like, you know, Iwould see Monday outside just
looking at the stars and cryingor whatever.
And I would check in on like, ifthey checked in on her, anyone
around them.
Like they, they, the whole, thewhole thing is just like, it's
sad.
It's completely sad.
There were so many red flags.

(49:24):
Um, another thing that I thoughtabout too at the very beginning
of the book was when Claudia waslike, you know, I'm surprised
Monday's not here.
She's usually here two hoursbefore anyone else, even the
teachers.
What do you mean a baby's outtaschool at 5:00 AM Why is no one
looking into that?
Where are you staying?
You're like, you know what Imean?
Why do you have to leave soearly?

Jas (49:42):
Well, if you, I don't know if you remember, but we used to
go to school earlier than whenschool was supposed to start,
because a lot of times yourparents go to work earlier than
when you go to school and you,and you know, we get out
earlier.
I don't know why that's set upthat way, but I don't think
that's, that's weird.
They have systems in place forkids who do get there a little
bit early because that's whenthey can get there

Joi (50:04):
Well, I know that, but the way that it was said, I, I
pictured her being there beforethe teachers were there for the
early drop off.
I remember early drop off, but Idon't remember someone being
there two hours earlier beforethe early drop off teachers get
there.
That's what I imagine.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, the whole situationkind sucks.

(50:26):
Mm-hmm.

Jas (50:27):
It did suck.

Jann (50:31):
Yeah.
All right.
So what did you guys, uh, let'slighten it up a little.
Hopefully.
What did you guys think aboutMonday and Claudia's
relationship?

Joi (50:40):
I thought that um, every time she was like, no, she don't
have any friends.
It's just us in our bubble.
And I was like, Claudia,

Jann (50:47):
a little,

Joi (50:49):
so I'm a little toxic there.
Um, I thought that was veryinteresting.
So, um, but I don't know.
It's one of those things whereit's just like, you know, your
kids, your best friends forlife, you know, you don't want
anyone else coming in, messingit up, especially when you're
kind of outcasting your, in yourschool too.
But, I think it was, um,interesting that the sister

(51:12):
April could be like, well, no,her favorite color wasn't pink,
it was purple like yours.
But she felt like y'all kindahave the same stuff.
Like I feel like Claudia wasalso, um, you know, just a kid.
But it's just one of thosethings where it's just like, um,

Jann (51:26):
She is a preteen, like self-absorbed.

Joi (51:29):
yeah, yeah.
Pretty much like everything wasin her world, and everything in
her world is what she knew, andthat was the facts, you know,
now Monday could have differentrelationships,

Jann (51:39):
Yeah, like people downplay teenage girls a lot and say
they're like so selfish andself-absorbed and everything
else and like to a point that'strue.
But she was also the only onelooking for her.
So I don't wanna hear anybodylike talking crap about how like
teenage girls are the worstbecause she was able to overcome
that as a teenager and do whatno one else could, which is be
concerned about someone else.

(52:00):
So,

Jas (52:01):
What's interesting is her dynamic, I feel like Claudia was
very different from all theother kids in the book.
She did not have a grasp onreality like everyone else did.
And I think a good reason forthat is'cause her parents
sheltered her so much.
Like they put on this wholefacade like, well, she doesn't
need to know about that, or Wedon't need to know.
Even like Claudia's mom, I'm nottelling her that she realized

(52:24):
that there's something happeningin um, In Monday's house.
They never talked about it.
Like, Hey, did Monday ever sayanything to you about like, or
have any weird bruises on herbody or anything?
Like she's never had thatconversation with her because
she's protecting her daughterfrom the horrible things in the
world.
And I think at one point, what'sher one valet friend name?

(52:47):
Meg.

Joi (52:48):
Megan?
Yeah.

Jas (52:49):
She said, y'all need to stop babying her.
And I'm like, whoa, who'sbabying her?
And that was like the firstinkling, like, does she know
too?
Does she know that this girl hasbeen suffering for two years?

Joi (53:01):
I don't that she knew for two years.
I think it's because she wasactually 16 going on 17.
Go like, Hey, let her take adrink or something.
You know, like leave her alone.

Jann (53:12):
Yeah.
And that's why when he said,when she said he's, she's not
ready for this, I was withClaudia, what do you mean you're
a year older than me?
Get outta here.
But he really meant like she'sgoing through an episode right
now or like when she said sheturned around and April wasn't
there.
I thought April split.
But I feel like she washallucinating or like thinking
about the past.

Joi (53:32):
Mm-hmm.

Jas (53:33):
wow.
I didn't put that together.

Jann (53:36):
Or even when I thought that, okay, so as cool as
Michael was when she followedher the first time, and Michael
was like, shouldn't you be likeyelling at April?
And then he like cut himselfoff.
I'm like, what is this?
Is this sex trafficking?
Does he know?
Like what happened?
But really he like cut himselfoff because it was probably the
future and like he kneweverything that happened and

(53:59):
April was probably supposed tobe doing something else, you
know,

Joi (54:03):
I want to be like, I wanna go back and listen to it again,
or at least read it with theactual book and like try to
dissect which parts were whenshe was older and which was the
first time it happened when shewas gone, you

Jas (54:17):
Right, because Michael was, he said that Michael's been with
her the entire time.
So she started hanging out withMichael right the first time
when Monday started missing, butshe didn't start going to the
ballet class until she was gone.
So I kinda used that as mymarkers to tell what's from
before and what happened after.

(54:39):
So the party and the sleepoverand stuff, that made sense.
That was in the after, but Ididn't understand her, her
conversation she had with Jacobat the party, he was talking
about like, oh yeah, when's thelast time I saw Monday?
It was this.
And I, he said, I felt reallyguilty about this thing.
And I, that's the part I wastrying to figure out.
Like did he, so he already knewshe was gone when he was having

(55:02):
this conversation with her andsomeone had to have told him
that she doesn't know

Jann (55:07):
Well, he was there when she like had the first
breakdown, remember like at theend when she finally remembered
after school.
So he probably knew and wastrying to be more gentle because
of that whole like thing.
Like everyone was kind ofplaying along with her,
including when they went to thelibrary and she gave the book
back and the librarian was likelooking at it like it like, oh,
what is this?
I'm thinking like, what is yourissue lady?

(55:29):
But it was probably because shewas like, how does she still
have this book?
You know?

Jas (55:32):
Oh

Jann (55:34):
And like when Michael came and was like, can we just do
this?
Like he said he was trying toget her to remember and the
like, like Claudia's thinking,oh, he just knows everyone.
Like is Michael's influence.
But really they were all like,okay, we're gonna go through
this again.
Or every time she went up toApril and she was like, are we
still doing this?
I'm like, Girl, where is yoursister?

(55:57):
But she had already known, like,that is so traumatizing for
April too, to like, have to playalong like this.
Um, like yeah, I, I think thewriting was great on that
because after I, I wasn'texpecting like memory problems.
Like that's what we're gonna gowith.
But looking back at how she didit, it was actually really well
done.

Jas (56:17):
It really was the writing.
My favorite part of the writingis how she described people with
colors.
Like, that was amazing.
I'm like, oh my goodness.

Jann (56:28):
it

Jas (56:28):
The red flag.

Jann (56:29):
that Monday was the color red.
And that's why she couldn't seeany red flags is because like
she saw, like she was hereverything, you know, like, and
the red flags bled in with hercolor, um, because that's all
she could see.

Jas (56:44):
I liked how she described,

Joi (56:46):
too, being like, sorry, the being, having like a, a learning
disability, maybe it's just likeshe saw like, you know, thought
of people as colors instead oflike these different kind of
personalities and

Jas (56:55):
well they said that with her being dyslexic, she did so
well on her math test because itwas on blue paper.
So I, I think that made perfectsense.
But she was so into colorsbecause of her learning
disability.

Joi (57:07):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (57:09):
And since we're talking about colors, guys, um, if you
were a color, what color do youthink you'd be?

Joi (57:17):
Wait, I think that we should say which color we think
each other is and see if itmatches with what we think it
is,

Jann (57:26):
Okay.

Joi (57:27):
because it's like, Claudia was like, I think that you are
this color.
So Jan, I think that you're likea, like a, like a pink.
And I think so.
It's because like you're superloving and super cute, but then
like when you get pissed off it,that pink can turn into a red
and go like, get the hell out ofthere.

Jas (57:51):
It's, it's funny.
Joyce said pink.
I said I would think pink forJen too.
I'll say warm.
And I think more like rosecolored glasses.
Like she's a nice, um, she'sgood at kind of.
Helping people see a brighterside, um, in, in that regard.
And then I, I agree like pink isa very, like, it's one of those

(58:13):
colors that can shift from beingmagenta to rose color to this,
and depending on whatever moodJan is in what, whatever
flamboyant pink she wants to be.

Joi (58:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Jann (58:29):
very interesting.

Joi (58:30):
What do you see your color as?

Jann (58:31):
guys.
So I would like to picturemyself as a bl blue because I
feel like I try to stay calm ina lot of situations, but in
reality, I feel like I would bea yellow, um, and directly from
the book, the way she describedMrs.
Charles, even though I hate tothink of myself, like relating
to her at all, just being acertain color and happy and

(58:55):
bright, but I'm just so affectedby other people's moods and
outside influences that it canget dirty very quickly and I
have to like retreat and liketry to calm myself and get back
to my center and like my corecolor.
Um, yeah.
But I guess that could be saidwith any kind of bright ish
color.
But yeah, I was thinkingdefinitely yellow.

Jas (59:17):
I love, that was my favorite, my favorite segment of
the book when she described Mrs.
Charles is, is yellow.
I'm like, oh, I would've thoughtyellow for her.
But then if she just described,I'm like, okay, yeah, this makes
sense.

Jann (59:28):
Yeah.

Joi (59:29):
Yeah.
'cause she seemed to be a goodmom and the people in the
community looked at her as agood mom

Jas (59:34):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (59:34):
that point, so, because they all even said, they're
like, okay, maybe Monday wentsomewhere, but she's a good mom.
She love on those kids all thetime,

Jas (59:42):
Can I be honest, Mrs.
Charles?
I felt like I've met her.
I feel like I know people likeher.
Just her, she's just a bigpersonality.
She's very outspoken.
She's tough.
I picture her being small eventhough she's not, even though
she's just like this roughperson.

(01:00:03):
And, I don't know.
Overall, like she probably hasthis gel center that is just,
yeah, I dunno.
But yeah, she seemed like a realperson to me.
I mean, I feel like everybodyfelt like a real person.
No one felt like a trope exceptfor Mr.
Charles, which I'm like,

Joi (01:00:20):
Tip.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tip for typical,

Jas (01:00:25):
Typical, yeah.
Like,

Joi (01:00:28):
uh, Jan, what do you think?
Jasmine's color is

Jann (01:00:34):
Huh.
I dunno, I feel like you wouldbe like an orange because I

Joi (01:00:38):
Me too.

Jann (01:00:39):
Yeah.
I feel like you're very similarto me.
Um, like you're very bright andlike you're very, but more
intense and more dynamic and Idon't feel like you get, like,
you like lose your way.
with outside influence, I feellike you're very like
straightforward and intense andlike, you like gain energy from
certain things and like, evenwhen you're like duller, it is

(01:01:01):
not really dull.
Like it's a bright orange.
So.
Yeah, that's how I would seeyou.

Joi (01:01:06):
You can never mistake it for a different color either.
So like you don't get lost onthe sauce or anything like that.
Like you have a goal and this isthe goal and this is what I'm
doing.
It's my goal.
You know,

Jann (01:01:16):
Yeah.

Joi (01:01:18):
very orange and nothing rhymes with orange

Jann (01:01:23):
And nothing,

Joi (01:01:23):
to orange.

Jann (01:01:24):
that's a good point.
Yeah,

Jas (01:01:29):
Oh, that's nice.

Joi (01:01:31):
do color is?

Jas (01:01:32):
I was thinking green for myself just because I like, um,
I like the idea of just being,well, is Shep, is that blue your
favorite color?
Well, I was thinking, thinkinggreen because like, I like to
create, I like creating things.
I like the idea of likesomething starting from scratch

(01:01:54):
and moving up like a tree, likea root or grow it and um, doing
it in a way that's not like overthe top or not, not over the
top, but like to the point whereit's gonna stress me out, but
something I enjoy enjoying italong the way.
Uh, I think a agreeing of likewalking through, um, a trail

(01:02:14):
where I get to bathe in all thegreen and just get that energy.
I think energy, yeah, I figuredmyself like energetic and, and
getting that.
And being able to share myenergy with other people as
well.
That's why I think green.

Jann (01:02:29):
I like it.

Joi (01:02:31):
All right.
Compliment me now.

Jas (01:02:35):
Jay.

Jann (01:02:38):
I think Joy's a gray.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
Um, Joy, I feel like you wouldalso be a yellow like me,
because you are bright andbubbly, but more like a golden
yellow.
because I feel like, you alsoaren't like, as distracted by

(01:03:00):
outside influences.
Like it's a very, like, I'm likelooking at this color here, like
golden, like yellow, you know,like that's how I see you.
and I feel like you can getbogged down pretty easily when
you're overwhelmed, but it justturns into like a more golden
color.
Like it doesn't get muddied asmuch as a bright yellow wood.

(01:03:24):
So gold, I guess more thanyellow.
Yeah.

Joi (01:03:27):
I

Jas (01:03:27):
I would say joy is like a baby blue color, light and airy,
and wants to just enjoy it andbe free and.
Um, I don't know.
That's what I think with

Jann (01:03:41):
I wanna change my answer.
You're right.
She's an air sign all, all day.

Jas (01:03:46):
Yeah.
I think she's like, it's like alight blue, a light blue color.
And then also I feel the sameway, like I said about jam being
pink, there's a lot of differentcolors.
I feel like sometimes thatairiness can kind of pack on and
become more deep, like a deeperblue, and then that can lead to
you not feeling as bubbly as youusually are.
Just being a deeper, deepercolor blue and kind of getting

(01:04:09):
bogged down by that until youfind your airiness again, and
then you get light to thatlighter blue.
So that's what I would say.

Joi (01:04:16):
I like that.

Jann (01:04:18):
The thing about the gold color though, is I feel like she
has definitely a stubbornstreak.
You know, and like in a goodway, in a bad way, like I feel
like you're very headstrongabout things and like your
opinion doesn't change veryoften, which is why I feel like
your color wouldn't change asmuch.
So like a light gold to like adarker gold is what I see.
But to your point, jazz, likethe airy air sign, like blue

(01:04:41):
light blue is definitely a traitof joy as well.

Joi (01:04:45):
I can just feel like the aura just brightening.
I always thought of myself aslike a radiating yellow, and
this is why I feel like I,instead of it being like more
like for me, I feel like I liketo give off energy, like the sun
kind of, and try to likeenergize others and give that

(01:05:06):
good like feeling to otherpeople, you know what I mean?
And the better that I feel, themore it radiates off of me and
you know, helps the peoplearound me to feel better as
well.
And that's probably why I'vealways been like a jokester.
Always want to make people laughbecause the better I feel, I
feel like the more that theyfeel it comes back to me.
It's like cyclical.
So yeah, I try to put goodthings out there and I feel like

(01:05:28):
the yellow, like the sun wouldbe like kind of cool.
And yellow looks really good onmy skin tone.

Jas (01:05:37):
Yeah.

Jann (01:05:38):
right.
I feel like that's a good,that's a good reasoning.

Joi (01:05:42):
Yeah.

Jas (01:05:43):
So one thing I wanted not to defer because I wanted to
refer back to this.
I think that was some of thebest part of the writing.
When she described the colorsand describe it, that was the
best way to kind of learn moreabout the personalities and the
characters in this.
And it was a beautiful way to doit.
however, as a mystery reader, Idid not, I don't think it

(01:06:04):
followed any of the rules of amystery novel.
I, I love a good murder mystery,right?
Like, they're awesome.
I can be into it and just likecan't put it down.
And the difference is like, youdevelop, you develop the
characters to a degree.
You don't get as deep with thecharacters.
So when you find out.

(01:06:24):
One.
You know who the murder thatsomeone died in the beginning,
right?
It was kind of ambiguous.
So we didn't know.
We kind of held our hope.
So I didn't like that.
I wish they would've just toldus in the beginning that she was
dead.
They alluded to it, but theydidn't say it.
Um, and then the second part islike, if you're going to talk
about a dead character, I don'twanna like them, don't make me
like the character that is gonnabe dead in the end, right?

(01:06:46):
So like we learn about acharacter who has died, but we
don't know them well enough tocare that they're dead.
And we're trying to figure outwho the person is that did this
to'em, or if we do, they're kindof like flat, they're flat
enough character where you'renot emotionally involved in the
story as much.
so yeah, I didn't, I didn't likethat from a mystery novel.

(01:07:06):
Um, Side, and it was prettyobvious to me, like, who would
be the person to do this?
It, there wasn't really a twistor turn in that regard, which is
another element for mysterynovels that you'll find like,
oh, I thought it was thisperson, but it really turned out
to be this.
Now the twist would've been likeit being the, the dad or
something like that, orwhatever.

(01:07:28):
I guess they kind of threw inthe April did something, but it
doesn't sound like Aprilactually killed her.
April knew she was gonna die inthe closet if she wasn't already
dead and she just put her in thefreezer because she knew that if
she started to smell, they'regonna be kicked outta her house
longer.
Her, she said she did it to buytime.
Um, so I don't think that reallymakes her the bad guy Exactly.

(01:07:49):
In this, like she was justtrying to preserve her family
for something that had alreadybeen done.
Um, yeah, go ahead.
Joy.

Joi (01:07:57):
I disagree.
I feel like even though this istechnically like a mystery, um,
it's one of those things where,yeah, you can have like a
character like that you thinkdid it, but didn't really do it.
But I feel like with this storyin particular, because it hits
home with like the real blackgirls missing in America
constantly, and c p s failingand the system failing, it's

(01:08:20):
that it's one of those thingswhere it's like, Sure it can be
like more like almost fantasywhere it could have been this or
twist or, but it's, I think it'ssadder and more impactful to
have just been like, no realmystery.
We all know the mom did it andthe mom did it.
You know, it was just like acase of abuse and neglect and
it's horrible.
Like, I it's not

Jas (01:08:40):
but to your point, you said it's no real mystery.
There's no mystery in it.
I'm not guessing.

Jann (01:08:45):
is a mis, the, the fact that you were guessing to the
end, like proves that it was amystery.
We're all trying to figure outwhat happened to her.
Like I told you at one point, Ithought it was like a whole.
Sex trafficking ring with thechurch involved.
And that's why Michael knew,like I feel like I was guessing
the whole time.
So it was a mystery.
Like we held out hope, whichmeans it was a mystery, you

(01:09:05):
know?
Like if they had told

Joi (01:09:07):
alive.

Jann (01:09:08):
yeah, they, if they had told us she had died, point
blank, like I feel like thatwould've took the mystery out of
it because then it's like, whodid it?
When we knew who did it, likewho the culprit was, the mystery
was what happened?
Can we still help?
Why is no one helping?
Like, the mystery was like awhole, like very sinister, like

(01:09:29):
the whole environment seemedsinister because there were all
these systems who had so muchauthority who could have helped
the whole time, but theyweren't.
And we still didn't know whathappened to this 13 year old
girl.
You know, like all of thosethings, like I feel like in, I
don't know a lot, like I don'tread a lot of mystery.
I've read a couple, but I alsoknow like when you get into like

(01:09:50):
really deep into a genre, thereare different tropes that you
think of.
Like with romance, there arelike a hundred different tropes
you can have.
Like I feel like it might be thesame with mystery, where there
is some where you learn likewhat happened to the person and
you're trying to figure out whathappened and who did it the
whole time.
And there are things like thiswhere it's more subtle, like you
kind of know, but not really,you know, who did it if

(01:10:12):
something happened, but we'retrying to figure out what
happened, you know?

Joi (01:10:16):
I think, um, when you bring up the sex section from King, I
forgot that I thought about thattoo.
That was the first thing Ithought.
I thought that the mom had soldher.
And, um, because like when shefirst went to go answer, she
said that the mom was completelydifferent.
Um, that the show, the TV wason, but it was never a show that
the kids really liked.
Um, I don't know if she said aman was there or not, but men go

(01:10:37):
in and outta the house orsomething like that.
And then they also said that shewa it was, there was clues that
she was sexually abused and thatwas never answered either.
So I'm like, who could have didthat?
So there was a few differentthings that she could actually
kind of like think about and seewhat it was like.
There's a couple different likepost-it notes, you know, with
the red

Jas (01:10:56):
a good point, I guess.
Alright, one, I wanna, I wannacomment on what you just said,
but first I wanna go back to themystery thing.
Me going in thinking this is amystery, was a turnoff for me.
If it was a drama, a thriller,whatever, fine.
But calling a mystery is not.
Yeah.
I think that's what set me offlike, This is horrible.

(01:11:17):
No, this is not what I signed upfor type of situation.
If I had signed up for drama,then yes, that makes sense to
me.
Um, in regards to the sextrafficking, I forgot I had that
thought too.
And you said they never answeredthe question on what was
happening as far as her beingsexually abused.
April said that she had sex withthe neighbor, which it sounds

(01:11:37):
like the neighbor was older,which I thought was interesting.
And the other part too was that,um, Jacob's brother, she,
Jacob's brother knew, she knew,he knew Claudia and he knew
Monday and when Monday saidthat, well, I don't know.
I, I had a thought that maybeshe was messing around with

(01:11:59):
Jacob's brother as opposed toJacob until Jacob told his story
about what happened with them.
But, um, I thought maybe becausewe had that one story where
April was like, they didn'treveal this, but it sounds like
April was pretty muchprostituting so she can afford.
To take care of her family.
I almost feel like Mondaystarted doing the same thing

(01:12:20):
because there was things thatshe wanted, like who bought the
hair dye for her to do her hairat home?
Um, yeah.
And just things like that.
She couldn't even for clothes orbarely ate lunch or whatever.

Joi (01:12:33):
Mm-hmm.
'cause the mom was always sayingthat she's fast and like she's
been fast and she was a baby.
Like, what?
So yeah, that's what made methink that she sold her too, and
that that's why the other kidswere there, but she wasn't, you
know, so,

Jas (01:12:49):
Hmm.

Joi (01:12:50):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:12:52):
Yeah, I thought it was a sex trafficking ring, and
unfortunately I thought they hadsold August.
Um, I did think that he wasn'tgonna be around anymore, just
'cause you didn't hear about himat all.
Like you heard about Apriltaking Tuesday around.
I was like, where is Augustthen?

Joi (01:13:05):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:13:05):
Um, so yeah, I thought they, that they had sold both of
those poor babies.

Joi (01:13:10):
And I think too, because um, with August at the beginning
it seemed like August was likemore under the care of Monday
and Tuesday care.
I mean, not Tuesday, April caremore about Tuesday.
And that's probably why Aprilwas like, look, you gotta go in
the freezer too with August.
'cause you didn't do your job.
And now I gotta take care ofmine any way that I can, you
know?

(01:13:31):
And which was Tuesday, so.

Jas (01:13:33):
Huh?

Jann (01:13:35):
It's crazy.

Joi (01:13:36):
Yeah.
Tragic.
It's a tragic story with atragic ending, you know,

Jas (01:13:42):
I can, I can

Jann (01:13:43):
about like the hard decisions that you have to make

Jas (01:13:45):
exactly.
I can see April's reasoningthough.
Like she's like, I can eithersay something to see if I can
help Monday if she's even alive,or I can know I can for sure
protect Tuesday.
Like, what?
Which is it going to be?
Because she was worried tooabout, about Monday saying

(01:14:07):
something.
I.
And I'm getting split up andputting the system again,

Joi (01:14:11):
she did say that.
But my thing is too, like yousaid, that the mom like babysat
or went to work every once in awhile, whatever.
I don't understand why Aprilwouldn't try to help her, like
get water or food while the momwas gone.
You know?
She left her in there.

Jann (01:14:25):
else would probably, I mean, there's no, she probably
did give her some water or food,or maybe there was like a key
that she didn't have access to.
Like you never know, like

Joi (01:14:34):
Yeah.

Jann (01:14:36):
I feel like the poor girl was traumatized.
She lived this her whole life,like.
I don't understand the reasoninglike some people have like,
well, no, she's 18, so, or 17.
She's old enough to know better.
Um, I remember, did you guyswatch Shameless?

Jas (01:14:52):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:14:54):
There was a point where like, um, Debbie was starting to
like, try to go out and like,uh, have relationships with guys
and the person I was watching itwith kept saying, oh, so
Debbie's a hoe.
And I was just like, what areyou talking about?
She's a kid.
And he was like, well, you know,if she's old enough to do this,
then she's old enough to knowbetter.

(01:15:14):
Like, what are you saying?
Like, whatcha even talkingabout?
Like, I, I just feel, I don'tunderstand the reasoning of,
okay, if they're old enough todo these things and they're old
enough to know better.
Like, that's just insane to me.
This is a child who's stilldeveloping their brain and who
has been through more stuff thanmost adults.
Like, I, I just don't get it.

(01:15:36):
Like people are.

Jas (01:15:38):
I don't either.
I don't either.
And I think that's, that was thewhole point of the book though,
is that people were treatingthese kids like they were
adults, including their parents.

Jann (01:15:48):
not listening to them.

Jas (01:15:49):
Exactly.
How frustrating does that haveto be?
You know, like you're telling meI'm an adult, you're telling me
I need to do adult things, butyou don't listen to me and
you're telling me I can't do alot of the things adults do.
Except for stuff you want me todo,

Joi (01:16:04):
a lot of the things too, when it comes to it, it's just
like, oh, well she's doing adultthing, so she must think she's
an adult.
But it comes down to she's stilla kid, you know?
And who taught her the right andthe wrong, the bad, and the
ugly?
Like the world isn't perfect.
Who says she's not getting takenadvantage of?
Are you saying that the, the boyin the situation is also an
adult and he should know better?
I doubt it.

(01:16:25):
So it's one of those thingswhere it's just like you have to
take your.
Your responsibility of being theadult in the situation.
And so like, I failed these kidsbasically, and and you have to
teach them.
Sure.
Like, like thinking about it,like evolutionary wise, like
this is one of the longest timesthat people, like humans live

(01:16:48):
from bacteria and viruses andeverything.
So of course you're gonna haveurges and you're growing and
puberty and all these things.
So obviously you're going gomore towards those things.
But you have an adult, you haveparents, you have a community to
teach you better so that you cansurvive throughout those years,
you

Jas (01:17:03):
though is we don't know our history enough to know why we
even do some of the things wedo.
I read an article about, forexample, just going back to the
corporal punishment, likebeating your kids.
Like that's so big in the blackcommunity because in the slave
days they, their kid would dosomething where the master would
try to beat their child and theydon't want anyone beating their

(01:17:25):
child.
Like, listen, I'll beat'em.
So they don't have to worryabout, that's them protecting
them from this other person whowas going to do it.
And they beat'em.
Exactly.
So they beat'em.
I'm doing this so that they,one, they don't do it and
possibly kill you.
And two, so that you know thatthis is how you're gonna get
beat for the rest of your life.

(01:17:45):
And that is just a horriblestory.
Like, and we just kept that up.
We just kept doing that.
And to a degree, like, I mean, Iunderstand what you're saying,
like life is hard, but you'reputting this.
Thought in this person's mindthat it's okay for someone to
put their hands on you andphysically harm you, and there's
literally no situation wherethat's okay for someone to

(01:18:07):
physically harm you.
Um, so yeah, I, I, I don't thinkwe do enough introspection into
that.
Like it's one thing to like haveto deal with your kid in the
moment because they are notdoing what they, what you want
them to do.
But also, like a lot of thingsare put together.
Kids don't know how to reason,yet they don't know the
difference between right andwrong.

(01:18:29):
And like if someone tells you todo something and you mean now,
like they just don't know thosethings.
And unfortunately I think weforget that or we don't know
that and think it's disobediencewhen it's just brain development
isn't all the way there yet.
Um, so yeah.

Joi (01:18:46):
Not to mention if you're traumatized as a child or, or a
teenager during that braindevelopment phase, you're
stunted.
So even the mom, obviously, shewent through some kind of trauma
as well, so she could've, um,you know, regressed honestly.
So it's just, and put her in, ina different kind of, um,
situation too.
This all gives a huge reason aseveryone needs therapy and

(01:19:08):
figure out those traumas and dothat and like, make sure that
you don't teach the wrong thingsto your children.
Like there's a rhyme and reasonfor everything.
So you need to like, you know,like it made sense maybe back in
the days to beat your kids, tokeep'em safe.
But today that's not the case.
Talking to your children makesmore sense because they have to
learn the empathy, they need tohave the emotional control.

(01:19:32):
You know, as far as, um, we'reall black, we're all gonna have
black kids.
When it comes to like, um,things like police brutality,
our kids need to know more laws.
Our kids need to know how to reum, stay engaged, but stay like
calm because other people willtry to make them go and be
aggressive or argue or doanything like that to make the

(01:19:55):
situation worse.
So, no, but the times that youhave to teach your kids during
that time, but you also have toknow to teach your kids during
that time and not just bring inwhat you learned from the time
that you grew up, because that'snot easy either, so.

Jas (01:20:10):
And that bring it onto that joy like it, based on what
you're saying, I feel likecommunication is a survival
skill.
I don't think people have putthat together.
Just going back to like Claudianot being able to be a good
communicator and when it comesto talking to adults, because
one, she has zero experiencetalking to adults because she
knew she would get in troublefor talking to adults.

(01:20:32):
Um, so yeah, that can be asurvival skill even when it
comes to police brutality.
And then the second point youbrought up as far as like
everybody needs therapy.
I love that they put that in thebook because it seemed like
Claudia's parents was doing allthese things involving everybody
telling the church, telling herfriends, telling her, all these
people in the neighborhood whathappened and they weren't going

(01:20:52):
to therapy.
Like, why the hell you pulledyour kid outta school because
she's forgetting things andyou're just after her, her lapse
the second time.
This is now when you believethat it's time to go to therapy.
I mean, I'm glad it came to thatconclusion, but it's like, it
just shows like that is stillnot a top priority in the black
community to get help get.

(01:21:14):
Therapy and we need it more sothan I think a lot of people do,
just because we do deal with anenormous amount of trauma.
Even though we personally don'tgo through any trauma, which you
know, you're going to go throughtrauma.
There's still so muchgenerational trauma from your
parents and what they experienceand then your grandparents and
then just dealing with just allthe things that are happening in
society.

(01:21:35):
Um, so I'm glad that they putthat in there.
Like that is the conclusion.
That is how we get to fixthings.

Joi (01:21:40):
I feel like at the very least for reparations therapy
should be free for AfricanAmericans.
Absolutely.
At the very least.
At the very least, everyoneneeds to needs help from the
trauma that they've been beencaused by them and their
generations behind

Jann (01:21:56):
And all these systems of oppression that are still in
place.
I think that was like, again, Ikeep using the word sinister,
but that's what it seems likewhere you can't pinpoint how
like the oppression or thetrauma is happening, but it's
there.
Like all of these systems hadthe opportunity, like any one,
if just one worked out, thissituation could have been

(01:22:18):
prevented.
But there were so many thatfailed when they had the power
to help.
And it's not even oh, I triedand I couldn't do it.
Like they were abusing theirpower to a certain extent and
being dismissive purposely.
And Jasmine, to your point,intimidating when they should
have been asking questions andyeah, even when the teacher took

(01:22:39):
her to the office and was likeasking like, where is this
student?
The person in the office seemedannoyed rather than concerned.

Jas (01:22:46):
Right.

Jann (01:22:48):
Yeah, it was just a very sinister vibe, the whole book,
and I, I would it again, I feltlike if I put the book down,
like I was also failing Monday.
Like I felt like I should care.
Like we need to figure out whathappened to this girl, which is
why I listened to it straightthrough.
So,

Joi (01:23:05):
You know what else too?
It, it, it dawned on me too,that Monday and Claudia, they
looked so much alike that theycould have been twins.
I feel like Claudia's momespecially wanting more
children, she probably would'veheld onto that a little bit more
too, what I said earlier, likeinviting her over more, inviting
her to Atlanta or any of thesedifferent things she could have

(01:23:28):
done for this girl.
'cause could you imagine likehaving a little girl that's not
related to you whatsoever, butjust being like, you know, you
look like my daughter, but Ireally couldn't like, put myself
out there because of this, um,kind of stigma of just staying
like nuclear family business isnuclear family business pretty
much, you know?

Jas (01:23:48):
think per, I think she had an issue with her mom, and I
think that was her way of kindof like dismissing Monday.
I feel like if she was warmerwith her mom, if her and her mom
had more in common, shewould've, she would've taken her
in a little bit more.
But I think there's probablyeven a little resentment towards
Monday because of her mother andI.

(01:24:09):
I think that's messed up.
Yeah.

Jann (01:24:11):
Well, she was dealing with so many, uh, miscarriages and I
feel like I didn't, we didn'tknow that, when she went to the
door and Mrs.
Charles said, well, I have a lotof kids to deal with, so I have
to go back in.
I know you only have the one.
So, and like I was like, okay,like who,

Jas (01:24:29):
No.
She said, I know you could onlyhave the

Jann (01:24:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't, it didn't seem as badto me when I didn't know about
four for the miscarriages.
It's just that was a low blow.
And yeah, I agree.
There was probably someresentment there.
Um,

Joi (01:24:49):
Definitely.
But I mean, after having fourmiscarriages, the way that my
mind would've worked, Charleshad four kids, you know, and I
would've looked at them justlike, my daughter is so close to
this family, let me at leasthelp these kids.
Let me like, you know, the waythat, you know, the family's
struggling.

(01:25:09):
Claudia's mom knew that theyobviously gave clothes to, um,

Jas (01:25:15):
Monday.

Joi (01:25:16):
You know, bring some things over for the other kids, maybe
make a dinner.
Like at this point you're in abetter position than what that
family is, no matter what.
That, um, mother said, if shewere to take it, she could look
at it as like handouts.
Be like, listen, I made too manyribs for the church barbecue or
whatever.
Take some like May, and that'swhere the community comes, comes
in.

(01:25:36):
even though maybe you don't getalong with the mom, per se,
there's four little kids overthere that needs the help, you
know?

Jas (01:25:42):
Yeah, that's, I I feel like it's a fight or flight response
though.
Like, she knows something'swrong with this household.
She can either see if she canslowly get her daughter to stop
hanging around

Joi (01:25:52):
Mm-hmm.

Jas (01:25:52):
not have to take that on or take on the whole family.
Like that's a big ass you'reasking for.
she's already paying for kidlike clothes for Monday.
Is she gonna do it for April andAugust and Tuesday?
Like she has four

Joi (01:26:04):
Not even pay for kids, not even pay for them, but you're
obviously a member of the churchthat's very involved.
Like, Hey, let's get this drivegoing.
You know, like, let's see if weget some extra shoes or
something.
And not necessarily just for thefamily, but for people in need,
you know?
'cause she even said that onClaudia was like, that mom is
too proud to be in this at thesoup kitchen.
She wouldn't be there.

(01:26:25):
But I feel like if you came overwith your daughter going, Hey,
let them play, let's, let meheat this lunch, this dinner up
for you and your kids.
Like, make more of an effort tobe there for that family, I feel
like would've helped a littlebit, you

Jas (01:26:37):
I agree.
I agree with that.
There's more she could havedone.

Joi (01:26:42):
I, I don't know, like these kind of stories are sad, but I
feel like having these kind ofthings out there, It makes
people like us go like, youknow, maybe if we see something
even slightly like this, maybewe'll reach out.
I'm like, oh, let's have acommunity.
Like what can I do to help alittle bit more?
'cause we know the issues arethere.
We know people are stillstruggling.
What can we do to help to maybeprevent something, to be so, so

(01:27:05):
tragic?
Obviously the system isn't therenecessarily for us to help, but
maybe we can be there for eachother at the very least, you
know?

Jas (01:27:14):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:27:14):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that's a good pointactually.
Like that seems to be thetakeaway from this book is like
if you see something, saysomething for sure.
'cause you never know the impactit could have.
but with that said, let's, andlisten to your kids.
With that said, um, is anyone'sratings changing after hearing
this discussion?

(01:27:35):
And I'll go first.
I'm still giving it a five joy.

Joi (01:27:39):
a five.
Jazz.
What if, okay.
What if I said separated frombeing a mystery?
Do you like it as a story ingeneral, or

Jas (01:27:51):
I think it was traumatizing, like

Joi (01:27:53):
Mm.

Jas (01:27:54):
it's.
It was traumatizing for me tohear, like, I, I didn't need to
read a book to know that thisexists.
Like

Jann (01:28:00):
Here's the

Jas (01:28:01):
it more in your face.

Joi (01:28:03):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:28:03):
I'm just, I'm gonna put it, I know a piece.
Some people like sad things andI don't think this is a story
anyone can actually like, like,but I do feel like it has this
purpose because there are somepeople who don't know that
things like this go on and theyshould know because they'll have
that same takeaway is if you seesomething, say something, and
just talking about theimportance of community rather

(01:28:24):
than like individualism, which Ifeel like in America does run
rampant.
Like I feel like we take it solike.
We value it a little bit toomuch sometimes.
Um, so I feel like this storydoes have a place, it's not
necessarily my thing, but if I,if someone were to write a story
like this, I can't find faultwith anything that she did, you

(01:28:45):
know, like I wouldn't have doneit any other way if I were to
tell this story.
And I felt like she did thingsthat I wouldn't have even
thought to do.
Like the little clues that shewas like going through this a
third time rather than thefirst.
Like, I, I feel like it was doneextremely well.
So that's why I give it a fivestar.
I would never read this bookagain.
Do I have that thought too?

(01:29:06):
Like I need to read this again.
Um, so that I can see all thelittle clues, but then I also
thought, I'm not reading thisagain.
I can't go through that again.
Not to say that I don't wannabuy the book'cause the cover art
is great as well and I wannasupport her.
I think she's an awesome author,but I can't put myself through
it again.

Joi (01:29:21):
I feel like I, I completely understand where Jasmine came
from, where you said it wastraumatizing.
You don't wanna relive it'causethis is real life.
For me, like I always say that Idon't read historical fiction
and like some of the other bookswe read, I'm like, this is what
happens.
You know?
It's a system.
People hate black people, youknow what I mean?
But something about this reallyhit home, I feel like, just
because like, I could easily bein a situation like that, or any

(01:29:45):
of us could being either aparent or being a teacher, like
I would like to be.
Um, I don't know.
It's one of those things justlike, you know, when you have
like a story where it's likealmost, um, Like, you know, it's
a story, but it could havehappened.
You know, it's like one of thosecautionary tales, you know?
So it's just good to know, justin case.
But I don't look at this as astory as like just being

(01:30:07):
traumatic, just to be traumaticto black people.
You know?
I don't wanna relive slaveryjust because I feel like this
has a message and it's a messageto get out to improve things,
not just to traumatize, youknow, this is what happened.
Like obviously like some of the,um, historical nonfiction, it
has, you know, historical thingsthat actually happened.

(01:30:31):
But what is the lesson here?
What are we learning from it?
You know?
Um, I feel like this, we'relearning something.
We're looking more into like,let's look at ourselves and how
we can change and be better forour community, you know?
So, um, that's how I kind oflook at it, and that's why I
didn't really like, dislike itfor being real, you know, and
being like, not necessarily anescape.

(01:30:53):
It's more like putting us in asituation as a black girl of
today looking for help and noone's helping her.
So, and that's the opposite ofwhat you wanna do today, you

Jas (01:31:04):
That's a, that's a good point.
And when I do think about thebook, like I think the writing
was amazing.
Like she's a brilliant writer.
Just how she described things,how she was able, it wasn't a
very long book, but she wasstill able to put a good, deep
character view on everyone, evencharacters that you didn't think
were like the dad.
She described what he was likefor her.

(01:31:26):
And we barely saw him in thisbook'cause he is always on the
fricking road.
So I think she did a brilliantjob of that.
I like that she included theAfrican American vernacular
English in there as well.
Um, and just there were so manydifferent, um, themes of like
self-hate, especially inClaudia's family, things that

(01:31:46):
they would say and do, which youwouldn't, you wouldn't think.
You could see it in Monday'sfamily, but also in Claudia's.
Um, so I, I think it was a veryrealistic view of what the
African American family is like.
Um, and what are some of thestruggles that we have to, we
have to deal with.
So I do think it is a very realpicture there.

(01:32:08):
You call it a thriller or drama.
I think I would probably give ita higher score because from a
writing perspective, from, um,the story, the way it was told,
the way they put clues in andthe way that they were telling.
A story that was happening intwo different timeframes is, uh,
brilliant.
It was brilliant.
It was a really good book inthat regard.

(01:32:29):
I just didn't like it beingdestroyed as a mystery.
'cause it wasn't, it wasn't whatI expected.

Jann (01:32:34):
it was actually classified in a couple of genres, though it
wasn't a thriller in the mysteryand the young adult novels.
Um, so let's just do youngadult, what would you rate it if
we were a young adult novel?

Jas (01:32:45):
I, I'll give it a five then for young adult, because I think
about books in young adult likeTwilight.

Joi (01:32:56):
Dang.

Jas (01:32:57):
Oh, you guys are so judgy, so judgy.
I can't even be the judge one.
Um, but you think about thewriting here.

Joi (01:33:05):
before.
Yeah.

Jas (01:33:07):
Okay.
Think about the writing ofTwilight.
How does she describe people andthink about the writing in this
book, how she describes people,and I mean, the difference is
there.
Absolutely.
I.
So, um, yeah, it's a great book.
If you're looking at it fromjust a young adult novel and
this is something that happened,I would give it a five in a, a
young adult

Jann (01:33:27):
I wa I wanna defend my laughter right there because I
read Twilight as a teenager andI liked it as a teenager.
So a young adult I think isdoing fine, but just hearing
the, the book, Twilight inRelationship to this book, I
think is kind of laughable.
So yeah, I'm.

Joi (01:33:46):
The one thing that kind of, um, so when I was waiting for,
to do this podcast, I was superexcited about this book.
I was sad about this book, and Iwanted to see what other people
thought because we're notsupposed to talk about the book
until the podcast.
And I was reading a lot of thereviews and a lot of people were
annoyed that she used so much aa V E in the story.
But

Jann (01:34:05):
that was a part of the world.

Joi (01:34:07):
yeah, it was just like, it's one of those things, like I
can see what they mean,especially being an adult,
reading the book.
But if you put yourself in asituation, that's what it is.
Like you would have a kidgrowing up pretty much next door
to the hood too, so they'll usemore a a v e.
Like it, it's realistic, youknow?

(01:34:28):
Um, and you can't tone or tellpeople how to.
Talk or anything.
'cause that throws into thesystem as well.
If Claudia went into the policestation, not using a a V E or
not being dyslexic, maybe shewould get more help.
Maybe if she could explainherself more, she would get more
help.
And I feel like having her havethese different walls that she

(01:34:49):
would have to hit if she wasn'ta kid, you know, um, being one
of them, or, you know, not usinga a V E.
'cause I've noticed, she's like,nah, like, she's not missing
like that.
I feel like she would've beentaken more seriously, but that's
also part of respectability, youknow, and that's another issue,
part of the system.

Jas (01:35:07):
Yeah.
Right.
Like when, at what point did a aV E become bad?
Like why is it, it's a part ofour culture, it's a part of
American history, so, and it's apart of our today.
Just because the white majoritydoes not accept it does not mean
that it is not a language thatis used like any other languages
that are used in United States.

Joi (01:35:27):
Yeah.
So I just wanted to bring thatout so that people can, like, if
you did get like, kind of like,eh, I'm not really feeling it
because of that.
Think of the reason why, likeyou're part of the story when
she writes.
That way, you're not an outsidemember looking in.
You're supposed to be part ofit.
And that's how these kids werespeaking, you know, in that
area.
So just like one of thosethings, like if you're gonna
read a story like that, rememberwhen you review it, why it's

(01:35:50):
written that way, you know whatI mean?
So that's, I just wanted tothrow that out there because I
saw a lot of that and theymarked it down a lot.
Like they were like, oh, it'llbe a five star, but I marked it
as three because the A A V E gottoo much, or these kids said
whatever, too much.
What teenager did you not meetthat sits whatever, a lot, you
know what I mean?
Like if you're reading acultural story, which I think it

(01:36:11):
is, like it's the black culture,then you, you have to realize
that we're gonna have our ownsayings, our own kind of like
way to speak our own dialect,you know,

Jas (01:36:21):
Something else I liked that she did is when she was writing
her journal to, to Monday, allher spelling errors that they
read out and all the things thatshe was getting wrong, you can
slowly see that it was gettingbetter as she was going into her
classes.
There's so many little thingslike that in the book that are
just, it's brilliant.
Like she thought through how themessage was, was coming across

(01:36:43):
even in, in that regard.
So yeah,

Joi (01:36:46):
Even, um,

Jas (01:36:47):
of brilliant.

Joi (01:36:48):
when the way she wrote the other kids in the high school
when Monday first went missing,and you have like the people
that were still making fun ofher, but then you're just like,
these are still kids.
They're very, like, they're notreally empathetic to the
situation.
They probably don't realize howreal or how close the situation
is to them.
Some of them did obviously likeleave her alone, you know, but
that, that one kid that justlike kept picking at her and

(01:37:09):
picking at her, like they, theythrow her out like a, like a
Turkey.
That was real fucked up to say,but that's an immature child,
right.
Saying things like that.
And I feel like maybe that was awake up call for him too, when
she's just screaming and like, Ithought about her screaming in
that cafeteria.
And just the trauma that thoseother kids went through, just
having her screaming in thecafeteria, having a breakdown.

(01:37:31):
You know, all those kids shouldhave been like, you know, maybe
the, the teacher should havelike, let's have them talk to
people, you know, just in case.
Make sure the school counseloris like available maybe for a
couple days for these kids,because that's traumatic in
itself, much less your bestfriend going missing.
You're the only one looking forher and she's dead, you know,
and then getting bullied at

Jas (01:37:49):
language when she spoke in the other language that only
they knew and she couldn't stopand no one understood her.
Like, that just broke my heartbecause like literally you look
like you're not making anysense.
They think that she's speakingin tongues, but really she's
speaking this language that onlyher best friend who's now dead
can understand.
Like that, that hit hard.

(01:38:11):
Like yeah, it was

Joi (01:38:13):
then for her to not speak at the funeral, so that should
have been another sign that sheneeded therapy from her parents.
And then kids to go out thereand speak too.
Like when they bullied Monday?

Jas (01:38:26):
That funeral was bullshit.
That funeral was bullshit and Ididn't wanna be a part of it.
Like, that's, that's the take Igot from that.
And April said the same thing,like April didn't speak.
At the funeral either, and theyboth knew her the most.
Like you have people up theresaying that, that she was their
friend and which they were herbullies.
Um, yeah.

(01:38:47):
And then all these people, onlypeople who really spoke that
actually knew her was theteacher.
And then she stopped.
She sounds like she had her owntrauma too.
'cause she didn't, she moved.
She moved after the incident.
Um, but yeah, I get

Jann (01:39:01):
I was gonna say.

Jas (01:39:02):
speak.

Joi (01:39:03):
No, I'm not saying that she have.
Yeah.
What you say, jam?

Jann (01:39:07):
I was gonna say you about the kid that was making fun of
her, um, Carl or whatever hisname was.
Like, you never know what'sgoing on with his story either.
Like he probably has his owntrauma.
Like I think that was a veryclear, clearly represented in
this book that you never knowwhat other people are going
through and especially in thisneighborhood, this like that
we're all in.

(01:39:28):
Um, yeah, it's just you, you,you're put through a lot.
Everyone I feel like is putthrough a lot.
Like definitely it hits harderwhen you're in a lower economic
status, but I feel like all ofus in the African American
community, um, has some kind oftrauma with systems that are put
in place right now.

Joi (01:39:48):
even him being a child and saying something so heinous like
that, I feel like that's one ofthose things like, you should
know better than say somethinglike that.
Like, that's awful.
We all know

Jas (01:39:57):
I feel like

Joi (01:39:57):
dead.
She knows she was abused.
You know, she was frozen in afreezer.

Jas (01:40:02):
that's the same thing as saying though, like, You, you
should know better.
You're this age, like there's nodifference in what you just
said, and they should knowbetter.
You're this age, you don't

Joi (01:40:12):
like.
feel like things, well, that'strue.
I don't know the situationeither.
I feel like when it comes todecency, though, even being 13,
and if we were to find somethingout like that, I feel like we
wouldn't be outright cruel tosomebody when something

Jann (01:40:28):
But that's a, that's speaking from a place of
privilege too.
'cause we were lucky in like alot of aspects in that we didn't
go through a lot of stuff byourself.
Like you even said in our lastdiscussion, joy, like African
Americans tend to like laugh atinappropriate things sometimes.
Not to say this is like laughworthy, but I feel like we do
that because of all of ourtrauma.

(01:40:49):
Like you don't know what, thatcould be a whole other book
about child abuse and everythingelse.
His story and you don't knowthat.
Um, not defending him at all.
Still a little shitfaced, butyou just can't say like, you
should know better in situationslike that because you don't know
what's going on in that kid'slife.

Jas (01:41:07):
like what's

Joi (01:41:08):
of things where.

Jas (01:41:08):
thinks that that's okay.
He girl, he came from an Ahousehold where he thinks that
is an appropriate joke.
What

Jann (01:41:16):
what has

Jas (01:41:16):
parents like

Jann (01:41:17):
him about Exactly.

Joi (01:41:20):
That's true.
I mean, I mean, all that's true.
I feel like he should haveunderstood that that was not
okay when first Jacob went up tohim and said, fuck off.
And then the two other bullygirls was like, leave her alone.
You know?
But he, it's just like, kind oflike he wanted to p on to the
point where she broke like that,you know, um, at the school.

(01:41:41):
So it was

Jas (01:41:42):
I don't think he was expecting her to break.

Joi (01:41:45):
Yeah.

Jas (01:41:45):
anyone was, I, I think they were shocked.
He actually started by saying,Hey, I'm sorry about what
happened to your friend.
But he said it in the mostinsincere way, um, possible.
Um,

Jann (01:42:00):
Like he thought it was okay to joke about it while
saying, sorry.

Joi (01:42:04):
Yeah.
But instead of just being like,oh, let me back off, he just
piled on and continued to saywhat he was saying to her even
after people were like, relaxed,because the, the Turkey, the
Turkey thing is what set me offtoo.
I'm just like, what?
Like at first it's just like,you don't know how to say like,
your condolences to this onegirl you don't really know.
You kind of bullied her beforeand her friend who's dead, you
know?

(01:42:24):
But then to pile on in, in sucha horrible way, you know,

Jas (01:42:29):
If that's, I mean, there's so many, there's so many things
that those kids, the kids wereso cruel.
Like it just broke my heart.
Some of the things that theywould say, even when she was
missing and they knew that shewas the only person looking for
her friend, and they were stillmaking jokes about them being
lesbians and she.

Jann (01:42:44):
the homophobia in this book was awful.

Jas (01:42:47):
really, it was so bad.
Like how she's obviously hurtingand y'all know this and she
feels alone because she doesn'thave any other friends.
Y'all know this and you're stillmaking fun of her.
Um, so yeah, kids, kids can becruel, but I, I try to, I try to
keep in mind like, what, what isgoing on in their situations,

(01:43:08):
their households, they're stillkids at the end of the day where
they think this is okay.
You come from a homophobicbackground where you think we're
best friends.
I remember having a best friend,people saying these things about
me because we were so close,like, oh, they're lesbians.
And it's just like, it just goesback to like our society that it
wants to break down femalefriendships.

(01:43:28):
Female friendships are so rarethat closeness like that, that
usually men, boys, feelthreatened by it.
And you see that too with other,like, it was two girls who were
always together picking on them,calling them lesbians when
they're always together as well.
So what's the difference betweenthem and YouTube?

(01:43:49):
But if you can put the blame onthem for whatever reason, then
you know, maybe you're not gonnaget picked on.
So it is, it is just interestingto me and how like, even though
that's a very obvious thing Ican see as an adult, Claudia and
what's her name in Monday,didn't see to make that comeback
all the times that they werebeing picked on.
Um, in, in that regard.

(01:44:09):
It just shows you like they're,they're still developing,
they're still learning, theydon't know, and yeah.

Jann (01:44:17):
Okay, well, um, I think we can wrap this one up.
Um, Again, I, I think it was agreat book.
I'm very impressed with TiffanyD.
Jackson and her writing, and Iknow that we have a lot of her
books on our list.
Um, which brings me to our nextbook for next week is also by

(01:44:39):
Tiffany D.
Jackson.
Um, and this one is a horror.
It's still young adult, but inthe horror genre.
It's called White Smoke.
Um, and I'm going to read thissynopsis.
So Marigold is running fromghosts, the pones of her old
life.
Keep haunting her, but a movewith her newly blended family
from their small Californiabeach town to the embattled

(01:45:00):
Midwestern city of Cedarville,might be the fresh start she
needs.
Her mom has accepted a new jobwith the Sterling Foundation
that comes with a free house,one that Mary now has to share
with her bratty 10 year oldstepsister Piper.
The renovated picture.
Perfect home on Maple Street.
Sitting between dilapidatedhouses, surrounded by weary

(01:45:20):
neighbors has its secrets.
that's only half the problem.
Household items vanish, doorsopen on their own, lights turn
off shadows, walk past rooms.
Voices can be heard in thewalls, and there's a foul smell
seeping through the vents.
Only Mary seems to notice worse.
Piper keeps talking about afriend who wants Mary gone.

(01:45:42):
But running from ghosts is justa metaphor, right As the house
closes in, Mary learns that thedanger isn't limited to Maple
Street.
Cedarville has a secrets too,and secrets always find their
way through the cracks.

Joi (01:45:56):
Sounds

Jann (01:45:57):
that is white smoke by Tiffany D.
Jackson that we will be readingnext week.
And I'm not gonna lie, I wasvery excited that it was Tiffany
D.
Jackson.
And now that I read thatsynopsis, I'm like, I don't.
I wanna read it'cause it soundsscary.

Joi (01:46:15):
sounds good.
I'm excited.

Jann (01:46:18):
yeah.
I don't know why I put myselfthrough this like horror theme
because I'm stressed.
All right.
But that wraps up this podcast.
Thank you Jasmine, so much forjoining us.
always appreciate your point ofview um, any final thoughts?

Joi (01:46:39):
No.

Jas (01:46:39):
Final thoughts?
No, I don't think so.

Jann (01:46:43):
Well, um, as always, we wanna hear from you guys.
So Joy, can you tell us, um,tell them where they can find us
and reach out.

Joi (01:46:51):
Well, you can find us at Black Girl Reads Podcast on
TikTok Instagram, um, and our,and our Gmail.
Um, just at gmail at the end onTwitter.
You can find us at black GirlReads Pod.
The podcast was too long

Jann (01:47:09):
And remember that the black is b l K.

Joi (01:47:13):
because that's how the cool kids spell it.

Jann (01:47:15):
All right, well thanks guys for joining and we'll see
you next time.

Joi (01:47:21):
I.

Jas (01:47:21):
Bye.

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