'Slay': Discovering the Power of Black Identity| BLK Girl Reads Ep. 3

Join us on the latest episode of Blk Girl Reads, a bookclub podcast, as we dive into the captivating world of the novel 'Slay' by Brittney Morris. In this episode, we explore the intricate layers of the book's narrative and discuss its profound exploration of black identity, representation, and empowerment.

As we dissect the themes within Slay, we delve into the portrayal of racial discrimination, the importance of community, and the power of embracing one's heritage. We highlight the author's skillful storytelling and her ability to seamlessly integrate timely social commentary into an engrossing plot.

Tune in as we engage in a thought-provoking conversation about Slay, celebrating the novel's contribution to the representation of black characters in literature. Our lively discussion will leave you inspired and eager to join the ranks of Slay's devoted fans.

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Keep turning those pages, bookworms! Until next time, happy reading and stay lit! 📚✨

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Episode Transcript

Jann (00:01):
By day, 17 year old, Kira Johnson is an honor student, a
math tutor, and one of the onlyblack kids at Jefferson Academy.
But at home she joins hundredsof thousands of black gamers who
do a worldwide as Nubianpersonas and the secret
multiplayer online role-playingcard game slay.
No one knows.
Kiara is the game developer, nother friends, not her family, not

(00:23):
even her boyfriend, Malcolm, whobelieves video games are a quote
unquote distraction to keep theblack man from becoming great.
But when a teen in Kansas Cityis murdered over a dispute in
the slay world, news of the gamereaches mainstream media and
slay is labeled a racist,exclusionist violent hub for
thugs and criminals.

(00:44):
Can she protect her game withoutlosing herself in the process.
All right.
Welcome to the podcast this weekguys, we are reviewing the book
Slay by Brittany Morris.
A beautiful cover, it has a lotof pinks and gold leaf, which
shines when you twist the book.

(01:05):
It's a really beautiful book.
and stay tuned to the end if youwould like a chance to win a
copy of your own.
I'm Jan, your host,

Joi (01:14):
And I'm Joi your co-host.

Jann (01:18):
and we're really excited to review this book with you
this week.
So we're gonna start off asusual with a rating.
Joi, what would you rate thisbook?

Joi (01:29):
I'll have to go with the three for this book.
Yeah.

Jann (01:34):
A three out of five.

Joi (01:35):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:36):
Okay.
Okay.
I'm a little surprised.
I thought you were rated higher,but I'm right along with you.
I give it a three and a halfstars out of five.
so I think we're are more on thesame page than we have been in,
in our last two episodes.
This is only the third, butstill surprising.

Joi (01:54):
We were

Jann (01:55):
so yeah,

Joi (01:56):
book, skin the Sea.

Jann (01:59):
very true.
It was two star differencethough.
All right, so we're gonna getinto why we rated, what we rated
it.
So for anyone who has not readthe book so far and does not
want any spoilers, you mightwant to skip to the end if you
want a chance to get your owncopy or read it and come back so
that you can, hear thediscussion.

(02:21):
That's your warning spoilersfrom here on out.
All right, Joi.
So why'd you rate this book?
A three out of five

Joi (02:28):
So it wasn't a bad book.
I didn't hate it, but some ofthe references, some of the
meaning it was just too muchhitting the nail on the head for
me.
And it became a little clicheand it became oh, okay.
yeah, like we get it.
Like we get it and we get it.
Okay.
So it was

Jann (02:45):
yeah, I do.

Joi (02:46):
note constantly.
So that's what kind of hit me.
And then like I didn't, itreally made me feel my full 29
years of age reading thisbecause it's about like people
who are younger, like who are inhigh school.
So it was just like, I don'tknow, like something about the
cadence of it.
I just wasn't really feeling toomuch, Like I felt like this is a

(03:10):
young person doing young peoplethings and I'm not there
anymore.
And like the reasonings too,Like the whole time I was like,
girl, if you don't leave thisdude, like he sucks.
I felt like she was

Jann (03:21):
I would say that, yeah, that's what it seemed like.
Maybe it's because I have ayounger sister that's, um, kind
of hardheaded.
That's a cute way too long tocatch on to what I was saying by
the way,

Joi (03:40):
the hell.

Jann (03:41):
but I don't think, I don't like the emotional maturity
definitely was like an issue forme with the main character, but
I don't think I like, felt superout of place.
Like this is definitely a youngadult novel because, and this is
probably not a good sign.
but I think it's prettyuniversal, like the discussion
with black women and black menand the relationship between

(04:01):
them.
Cause that's exactly what I wasthinking with her character,
like she just gave him way toomuch grace, Malcolm.
and that annoyed me a bunch, butit's also like, that's a
narrative I'm used to hearing.
so what, I don't think it'snecessarily a age thing, I think
it's just a maturity thing, iswhat I'm saying.
Does that make sense?

Joi (04:18):
No, I completely agree.
I feel like if someone was inthe same exact relationship at
our big age, it's possible, butI don't know.
It was just like I wasn'tfeeling it too much at all.

Jann (04:33):
It just seemed like a girl who was trying to figure out who
she was and what she wouldallow.
And again, I feel like you'realways gonna be going through
that, that growth.
if you feel like you're notgrowing, then that probably is a
sign that you're stagnant.
So yeah, I gave her some grace,even though I felt like she gave
him way too much grace.
but I will say that I do relatea lot to what you were saying

(04:55):
about just being like, it wasn'tsubtle.
That is not a word that I woulduse to describe this book and I
will be honest with you.
I thought you would rate ithigher because when I was
reading this book, and again, Iwas reading the physical copy, I
did not even get through thefirst chapter and I put it down
and I did not come back to ituntil two days later because I
hated everyone.

(05:16):
Like everyone was just such astereotype.
Like it was not subtle at all.
And then I started to realizethat like the more I read it,
and granted I did not come backto it until you said that you
were almost done and that it wasgood, which violates the rules
of book club

Joi (05:32):
I lied.

Jann (05:33):
for,

Joi (05:34):
finished this damn book.

Jann (05:37):
I will say this.
Everyone that's listening theonly rule of book club that we
have two rules, actually.
The rules book club don't talkabout the book before book club.
And.
There is no, did not finish inthis book club.
You gotta finish the book.
So her telling me that shethought it was good was
definitely a violation of bookclub rules.

Joi (05:57):
I just wanted to motivate you to read it some more, like,
oh, just get into it.
get past those first couplechapters.

Jann (06:05):
I was still in chapter one and I was about to violate rule
number two because I was justexhausted.
but reading further into thebook, I started to realize that
like the writing style that shechose was like using the
characters as allegories ratherthan having a bunch of character
development.
Like the characters felt veryflat, but it's because they were
representing a concept thatblack people deal with on the

(06:27):
regular.
Like her friend asking if shecould wear dreadlocks and then
her brother, her white brothercoming up and saying, oh, let me
interview her for this.
I wanna get your opinion forblack people.
And the fact that like theysaid, oh, we don't want your
sister's opinion.
We already know what her opinionis, but they were just looking
for her to give an oppositeopinion so that they'd be

(06:50):
allowed to do it.
Like all exhausting.
All so exhausting.
And I just had to put it down.
And then of course, Malcolmcoming up and being the Hotep
that he was, I was just like, Ican't take it right now.
And I put the book down becauseagain, I deal with that every
day.
And I think about how like blackpeople as a whole don't have the
option to not talk about race.

(07:11):
We just don't have the option.
Whereas white people do.
And it was very interesting tome because I was reading reviews
on the book and all the whitereviews that I saw was talking
about how exhausted they wereabout talking about race in the
book.
and they said it like she didsuch great writing, like you
felt exhausted with Kiara.
And I was like, I didn't evenneed the writing for that.
Like as soon as I read the firstchapter, I was like, oh, like I

(07:34):
feel that all the time.
So I don't know.
On a certain side, I think maybeshe did do really good writing
for people who aren't black tounderstand what Kiara is going
through.
Does that make sense?

Joi (07:47):
No.
Yeah.
that's exactly what it was.
And the thing for me, andnormally I don't read books like
this, that's like very close tolike home or very realistic to y
your everyday life, because Iwant.
To read books for escapismusually.
And so for me to read a bookabout the reality that I live,
I'm just like, not only am Iexhausted, but I'm not escaping

(08:11):
into any kind of fantasy.
I'm not escaping into adifferent world.
You know what I mean?
Like I just, and that's why Idon't really read like
historical fictions either.
I'm just like I know this.
Like it's very traumatic forblack people and I don't wanna
be traumatized further, youknow?
So I just, I don't care forbooks.
I usually do stuff like this.
it's just not, it's not for me.

(08:31):
Not saying it wasn't a good bookfor someone, but it just wasn't
for me personally.

Jann (08:37):
you rated it a three out of five for a reason though.
Like it wasn't some, it's likean average.
So what did you like about thebook?

Joi (08:44):
so I would give this book to like my 12 year old,
friend's, daughter to read, likeit's not a bad book.
I just think that my age andlike where I am right now in my
life, I don't need it.
You know what I mean?

Jann (09:00):
So you didn't like even the like chapters where they
skipped around to the professorat MIT talking about how he was
going to like, or realizing thegame was about black culture and
wanted to share that with hisnephews.
Or more Maurice talking abouthis trips to Asia because we all
wanna travel, right?

(09:20):
That's relatable.
Just going around and worryingabout how you're gonna be
received as a black person oreven like, um, Claire and her
experience and like peopleassuming that she's not from
France, even though she's beenthere her whole life.
And then feeling excluded fromblack culture as well because
she's mixed.
Like I agree.
There are some things that arelike, again, about my emotional

(09:41):
maturity, like her relationshipwith Malcolm, but I feel like
there was some things in thebook for everyone,

Joi (09:48):
yeah, there's some things in the books for everyone, but
it, for me, those differentsnippets, especially like the
one where it's like the, the kidthat, asked her to battle at one
point in the middle of the nightand it was like L G B T or
something and the mom came inand beat him up or something.
It was just like, it was likeseeing what the different
perspectives of the people whowere playing the game.

(10:09):
like I liked it, but I'm justlike, I don't need a whole book
about this and to see theseperspectives, it's not a bad
book.
I don't hate it.
I like how she did the differentperspectives, but it was just
like, it was a very averagebook.

Jann (10:24):
What did you think about that?
Like having all the differentcharacters, like I, I feel like
she did a good job of doing alot of different viewpoints and
saying why this safe place wasimportant to them.
do you feel like that waslegitimate, like having a safe
place?
Do you have a safe place likethat anywhere or do you feel
like if you were to create asafe space even, like what would

(10:45):
you create?
Would you create somethingsimilar like a game or will it
be something else?

Joi (10:49):
I think so.
For me, My, this sounds like,okay, so the game itself sounds
really cool, but I was reallyimpressed with the game and

Jann (11:00):
Yeah, I really wanna play that game.

Joi (11:02):
and the thing about it is like, the way that I play games,
I don't really care about likemissions or battling.
Like even when we play PokemonGo, not Pokemon Go, but like
Pokemon on the Switch, I neveractually play it to get the gym
badges or anything.
I just play it to get thedifferent, Pokemon that I like
and just to explore.
And that's how I've alwaysplayed video games.
So when they're explaining itand it was like, oh yeah, this

(11:25):
is just you can travel theworld.
And it's like one by one ratioof the world and you get like
different animals and make alife out of it.
Like people don't always go inthere to battle.
Just go in there and be like ashopkeeper.
I'm like, that's.

Jann (11:39):
That seems so fun.
Like the fact that there wassomething for everyone.
Like they had the pets, therhinos that they could ride.

Joi (11:46):
visiting the friends and their actual houses that they
decorated.
Woo.
That was really cool.
So

Jann (11:52):
Wasn't Claire's house that she built, like all the yellow,
so cute,

Joi (11:58):
that's what I would do.

Jann (11:58):
like I love that.
Or like people making their ownclothes just seemed really cool.
So that's one of the questions Ihad actually.
What was your favorite card thatyou saw?
I'll give you my favorite if youneed some time to think about
it.

Joi (12:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You tell me first.

Jann (12:18):
So one of my favorite cards was, the Twist Out card.

Joi (12:23):
Damn.
I was gonna say that one too.
Okay.

Jann (12:26):
So I love that one because first of all, twist out is life.
Cause I was like my go-tohairstyle for sure.
but also I loved how at thebeginning of the battle it
started off as two huge twiststhat she said was the size of
like dinner plates.
And then as she went on, she didlike smaller ringlets and things
like that because there's somany different ways you can do a

(12:48):
twist out, so I really like howdiverse that card was.
And just in general, I love howdiverse all the carts were
because they're like, when sheassumed that, what's the boy's
name?
the brother Wyatt, when sheassumed Wyatt was, dread.
It just annoys me even sayingthat name right now.

(13:10):
When she assumed it was Wyatt,she was like, he might have
studied the cards and memorizedthem, but he doesn't know how
versatile all these cards arebecause he doesn't understand
the culture.
And she was using cards thatlike, in a way you wouldn't have
expected to use them.
So I really liked that all ofthem had a double meaning
because I feel likeAfrican-American vernacular and
just our culture, you can't justdecide.

(13:32):
You wanna look on the outsideand take something and then
fully understand it.
That's just not how it works,which is the danger of cultural
appropriation with everyone.
you assume you know howsomething is or what it's about
and you really don't.
so yeah, that's definitelysomething I liked about the game
in general, but, all right.
You had enough time.
What's your favorite card?
I have more favorite cards bythe way.

(13:53):
I'm gonna say you another afteryou tell me yours.

Joi (13:54):
so I really liked the, purple haze cart.
It would've made it follow youwith the purple.
And then when she explained it,it was between, the one that it
was, I can't remember what itwas, but, that one or Purple
Rain, I was like, damn.
Like it was Prince.

Jann (14:10):
Yeah.

Joi (14:11):
That one's cool.

Jann (14:12):
she was talking about, she didn't know which way to name
it.

Joi (14:15):
And the other one was the, Satchmo card.
And the only thing I could,cause when he was explaining it
too, to his nephews, do you knowwho Satchmo was?
Like, the Louis Armstrong?
And I was like, I didn't know,honestly.
I was just, I immediately wentto Rugrats when they're in the
backyard and they go throughSatchmo

Jann (14:36):
Like when does that have to do with black old.

Joi (14:40):
rugs.
What?
But yeah, what's your otherfair, right?

Jann (14:47):
So even though I'm not very religious, I love the black
Jesus card where she said, it'spretty much everything awesome I
could think to put in a card.
I was like, that's freakinghilarious.
It's like such a op card in myopinion.
And I think about it too, fromlike a gamer's perspective and
that I play, I played Magic, theGathering.

(15:07):
I have gone to drafts.
I've played other, like cardgames especially, mean, not
especially, but including likeSlay The Spy, I think the card
game is called.
I've just played a lot of them.
So I'm like reading thesedescriptions like, oh, that
would go really well with thisone.
And,

Joi (15:22):
thought that was so interesting that she was able to
write a book while also creatinga game so cool.
what's your perfect game now?
Write a book about it.
It's really impressive.
That's why I was thinking thewhole time, honestly.
It's wow, she wrote a wholegame.

Jann (15:37):
I feel that way whenever I read a fantasy novel where they
did a lot of world building.

Joi (15:42):
I think it's funny how no one knew who she was this whole
time, like when she said her IPaddress changed every few
seconds, and so she couldn't betraced.
The way that my ego was set upthough, like if I managed to
write this whole successfulgame, everyone would know it was
me, and especially got like thisbadass character, they call her
queen.
I'm like, yes.
Fish gravel as I walk past.

Jann (16:06):
But that was her escapism though, like that was where she
escaped to do the stuff that shewanted and it seemed like
everybody in her life would'vehad an issue with it, because of
things they would say, like theMalcolm obviously, and her mom
like.
Trying to steer them away almostfrom black culture.
Like anytime they saidsomething, it seemed like on the
outside, like people wouldn't bereceptive of it.

(16:28):
And she didn't want it to be athing she had to struggle with.
It was a way for her to

Joi (16:33):
I think it's very important too for that to be included
because, something that I'm verywell aware of, especially with
kids coming up nowadays is thatthey won't be open with you or
honest with you if you alreadyshow them.
Your cars as their parents or astheir guardians?
if you happen to say some offkey stuff about the L G B T

(16:56):
community or like literallyanything, they'd be like, okay,
so we know that my parentsaren't cool with this, so if I
happen to come out on my friendshappen to come out, they can't
know about it.
And these little things that youlike tell them or just do or say
around them, they'll pick thatshit up and they'll carry that
with them.
Cuz then they know you're not asafe person to explain these

(17:17):
things to.
And it can be as amazing ashaving a whole video game world
that you created, you wouldn'tknow.
And I kinda broke my heart alittle bit.
Like I would never want to be aparent and feel like my kid
couldn't talk to me because Iwas trying to like obviously do
better.
But sh the way the mom was doingit too was weird.
I don't know, like we've alwayshad like different adults

(17:37):
telling us to, don't say yourpants or don't say, my bad, or
things like that.
And you just don't know howdamaging it is to a relationship
that you didn't realize, So Ithink that's like a good message
also for the adults.

Jann (17:52):
I agree.
And that's what I mean by whilethe main character like had a
lot of questionable judgmentbecause she was like a young
girl, which really drove ithome.
The fact that she went to thelawyer with a jar of change.
that really drove it home forme.
oh yeah, she's young.
Like it still has something inthis book for everybody,
including parents.
Like that part at the end whereher mom was crying and trying to

(18:13):
figure out why she didn't cometo her.
And she very clearly laid it outlike, this is why, these are the
things that you do that youthought would help me, but in
reality, you were distancingyourself from me.
So yeah, there's definitelysomething in the book for

Joi (18:27):
Speaking of the lawyer who I had like a girl crush on the
lawyer,

Jann (18:31):
Yeah.

Joi (18:32):
like the lawyer and the secretary.
They're both so nice and so opento her and go she's here for a
reason obviously.
And then when she just real ohyeah, I played the game too.
Like she's obviously she wouldknow by that point.
But they were just like so sweetto her and I really appreciated
that too.
Cuz she's scared she's lookingfor a lawyer.
I don't know, it was just niceto see, and not like waving her

(18:53):
off or just like actuallylistening to

Jann (18:54):
I agree.
They didn't make her feel badfor having that jar of money
instead of using a card like anormal person.
Like they didn't belittle her atall.
Yeah, they did write by her.
I was very surprised by howprofessional they were.
Cuz that's not a situation thatyou see often with black

Joi (19:12):
Exactly.

Jann (19:14):
it's always like, if you're not coming, the way that
we expect our customers to come,you're here to make trouble.
And people talk down to you andpeople want you to just like,
Not get in their hair.
And yeah, they definitely didright by her.
And I love that she waived thefee and thanked her for the
game.
There was no like disbelief,like you didn't create, it was
just, thank you.

(19:34):
I appreciate this.

Joi (19:36):
Yeah,

Jann (19:36):
Gave her a little bit of advice.
I feel like she could have gaveher a little bit more advice.
Like she kind said this is thetype of lawyer you might need.
If I were her, I would've beenlike, let me get you the name of
a lawyer.
You might,

Joi (19:49):
but then at the

Jann (19:50):
hey, that might have been a boundary.

Joi (19:52):
it might have been a boundary, but also it's just
like this young girl is comingin here with the jar full of
coins.
there's no way she could afforda lawyer anyway, if that was the
case.
So it's just it kind of sucks,

Jann (20:02):
she said though, you might need this for your next lawyer.
that doesn't mean like she,there wasn't another civil
rights lawyer that had the samefee.
like maybe she knew some namesor she couldn't even say Hey,
You might, this might be abigger deal than you think.
Like I would've suggest youlike, get your parents involved
something other than sorry, Ican't help you, but keep the
money.

(20:23):
not to say she was wrong, I'mjust saying what I would've did
in that situation.
But then again, I am veryoverprotective,

Joi (20:29):
I think it's

Jann (20:30):
yeah,

Joi (20:31):
I think it's interesting because she's obviously so very
smart.
Then you had to write a gamecode, a game.
She's a math tutor and all that.
But it was one of those thingsI'm just like, how did you
overlook that she wasn't a civilrights lawyer?
And it just reminds you thateven though you're smart, you're
not smart in everything.
You didn't think, oh yeah, Don,I forgot to look that part up,
Yeah.

Jann (20:52):
And that's another thing I picked up, like why I gave her
more grace.
The girl obviously had some likeissues going on, like she was so
neurotic about her shoes and Ifeel like that was definitely
like a lot of anxiety.
They went into more detailsabout her cleaning her shoes
than the entire fallout of whathappened after she was outed,

(21:12):
even though that's what she wasworried about the whole book,

Joi (21:15):
I didn't go deeper detail into what happened after with
her picture on Instagram andlike, how was it at school and
like who, who approached her,you know?
But just said she stayed homefor a week from school or
something like that.
And that was it.
And then everything was fine.
It was weird.

Jann (21:33):
Which is one of the reasons why I didn't give this
book, like higher marks.
not one of, not a major reason,but the fact that she was
worried about this, the entirebook, like getting sued and
having her name come out there.
And then once it was done, itwas like not a huge deal, which
was weird to me.
Um, But let's get into the realreason.

(21:56):
Why didn't I give this bookhigher marks?
And that is because of Malcolm,how much he irritated me and
some of the twists that hischaracter development had taken.
So let's get the Malcolm likecharacter situation out into the
open.
Like he was an annoyance to mefrom the beginning.

(22:19):
And I'll go into why, but I'mcurious because I might be a
little long-winded.
did he annoy you from thebeginning or I assume that he
annoyed you.

Joi (22:26):
absolutely.
Absolutely.
He

Jann (22:28):
That's just an assumption, but like what are your feelings

Joi (22:30):
I'd much rather deal with last week's Drew Nichols than I
would with Malcolm.

Jann (22:38):
But you did rate this book higher.

Joi (22:40):
I did.
I don't know, it was just likethe way, not only he was like so
belittling to her and then likethe way he spoke to her and then
she was just like, it justannoyed me all, all around, like
it seemed very toxic, almostabusive a little bit.
It was just like,

Jann (23:02):
Definitely

Joi (23:03):
it was just like, I didn't care for it.
I didn't like it at all, and Ijust, I felt like her parents.
Knew this guy, you know?
And they even said that theyknew they'd rather have sex in
their house.
You know what I mean?
It was just like, so theyobviously knew who he was, how
he is.
They were together for a longtime.
Why didn't the parents ever sayanything about that?

(23:25):
You know what I mean?
I just, I don't get it.
I don't get it.

Jann (23:29):
It's it's interesting the dynamic.
Like a lot of the time when shewas talking about her
upbringing, I'm like, yeah, Iknow what that's like.
like you said, we weren'tallowed to say my bad growing
up.
Like she couldn't say ain't, soa lot of it was like, yeah,
relatable growing up in a blackhousehold.
But the whole thing she talkedabout with like her parents
being okay with them having sexin the house.
Like what?

(23:50):
That don't sound familiar.
that sounds crazy.
Especially since they didn'trealize how controlling he was
since he was very controllingand there were so many times
where he said something so offcolor to her.
Like when she said that she feltsick and ran

Joi (24:04):
Yeah.

Jann (24:05):
and the only thing he screamed with, you better not be
pregnant, what?
What'd you say?
that would've been a fight inhis itself.
And she said oh, I can't believehe would say something like
that.
I'll talk to him about it laterand then never talked about it.
Or, what's the other thing Ibetter not

Joi (24:23):
be playing that game.
Right.
You better not be playing

Jann (24:27):
Like, what are you talking all these better nots?

Joi (24:29):
she was said or what, and then she never brought it up
again.
And I was like, that's right,you say, or what?
But then you gotta tell him thatgirl.

Jann (24:37):
through,

Joi (24:38):
Or like when she was like,

Jann (24:39):
It was

Joi (24:39):
was like, he said something to her and she's I'm not gonna
talk to him for the rest of theweekend or whatever like that.
And then she did anyway.

Jann (24:46):
Because he said, sorry, like he was obviously okay,
there's so many things to gointo here and he was obviously
unstable is what I'll say.
Because he would like, even toher friend where he was like, f
you then, and then two hourslater was like, oh, I'm sorry,
can you gimme some moreinformation?
The fact that she saw that hewas texting her friend like
that, and then her reaction wasto go and appease him, rather to

(25:10):
confront him, like, why wouldyou ever reach out to my friend
and talk to her like this?
That's a clear boundary for me.
don't you ever in your life.
But she was still trying to calmhim down, which is crazy to me.

Joi (25:25):
What was the Because she kept checking them every time.
She was like, I hate him.

Jann (25:31):
when she said she brought that coffee over and was like
threatening to throw it, youbetter not yeah, that sounds
right.

Joi (25:40):
What was that one?
TikTok.
I was like, ah.
Alright.
that was her.
That was her.
The whole book.
It was so funny.
I loved her.

Jann (25:49):
I will say Steph annoyed me too though,

Joi (25:52):
I lost step.
I was like, this was Steph.
She cracked me up.
She was like the golden ray ofthis book for me.

Jann (26:02):
She, okay.
That's your favorite characterthen.
Safe to say, Malcolm is yourleast favorite.

Joi (26:08):
No, actually I really didn't like him, but my least
favorite was probably on Wyatt.
He was fucking annoying.
Like the whole time.
I'm like, why are you here?

Jann (26:21):
he was so annoying.
And that's perfectly fairbecause I feel like I didn't
like Wyatt a little bit morethan, I didn't like Malcolm,
because I could tell Malcolm wasgoing through things, whereas
Wyatt just seemed like a brat.

Joi (26:30):
Yeah.
And even with Wyatt too, like atleast with Malcolm, I'm like,
okay, he's a hold up.
Like I know what to expect fromthis.
But with Wyatt, obviously I wasjust like, he just kept getting
worse and worse.
And for it to be your bestfriend's brother, I'm just like,
what are you doing?
And that for them to be bestfriends for so long, and they
treated her like that all thetime, like how I didn't like

(26:51):
that at all,

Jann (26:53):
let's break white down because he did get progressively
worse.
First, is that when we first.
Introduced him, he was beingpushy and saying he wanted to
get the real opinion for hisinterview, but he didn't wanna
interview Steph because he wasdefinitely looking for someone
he could bully, is what I gotfrom that.

Joi (27:11):
That he could bully and that he also knew was just like,
we are gonna get A differentanswer from you than from Steph
or something I can twist, to saythat it's okay.

Jann (27:20):
so yeah, someone he could push to the answer that he
wanted it seemed like is what hewas looking for.
Steph was sitting right theresaying, I want to be
interviewed, but it wasn't theopinion that he

Joi (27:30):
Yeah.

Jann (27:31):
And I feel like that's a huge thing with like white
culture right now is they feellike if they wanna do something
instead of listening to themajority of black people,
they're gonna pick out their oneblack friend who said the
opposite, which is somethingthat she went into in this book
as well.

Joi (27:45):
Yeah.

Jann (27:47):
And that kind of drives me crazy.
so there was that, the fact thathe showed up at her house to do
this interview, even though shelike, made it clear she did not
want to do it, and then went offabout how the game was racist
and even though they're likeexplaining why, like they feel
like it's not racist, he likepretty much said, I don't care
about any of that.
This is what I think, like tothe point where Steph, who was

(28:08):
very outspoken, was like, let megive you a moment because this,
I can tell that you're notinterested in listening.
let's go get a snack.

Joi (28:16):
after she told him though, just it is not racist.
We need, we all need our ownspaces and this is why, but she
had a whole essay for him readyto go.

Jann (28:26):
he, yeah.
And instead of listening andlike thinking critically about
it, he just got loud,

Joi (28:32):
tracks, I don't know.
And that's another reason why Ijust like Stephanie.
she was there constantly for hersister.
Like she took the parents outtathe house during the
competition.
she knew, like when she foundout about her sister writing the
game, she was like, oh, allright.
like she was just there all thetime and just so excited.

(28:54):
But I knew I would like her fromlike the beginning because, I
think it was the first nightwhen they were having dinner
with the family and then theywent upstairs and they were
getting ready for bed orwhatever, and she was just
talking like Stephanie wastalking and Key was in her head
just like thinking about stuff.
And she goes, oh, I wasn'tlistening.
Lemme tell you.
Let me ask her what she said.
And Stephanie, she was like, Idon't know, I forgot.

Jann (29:17):
I was just talking,

Joi (29:18):
like that,

Jann (29:21):
I don't know what I was talking about Anyway.

Joi (29:24):
I dunno.

Jann (29:26):
Yeah.

Joi (29:27):
Yeah.

Jann (29:28):
She was definitely relatable.
And I'm not saying I didn't likeher, it was just that like she
was pushy on a lot of thingswhere I felt like she could have
stopped and listened.
Like she was just too outspoken.
in some cases, I'm not sayingshe wasn't, didn't have a valid
opinion on everything that shesaid.
It just also seemed like she wasone to railroad.
Kiara a little bit where at, Idon't feel like it's completely

(29:48):
her fault either, because evenKiara said during the book, like
she let Steph talk for her.
So it's like a dynamic they gotused to and grew into.
But I will also say that I feellike their whole sister dynamic
was off.
Like it just seemed weird to me.
And maybe it's because we havetwo other sisters and we're all
very close.
So like it got to the book partin the book where she was like

(30:11):
excited and squealing in herroom and Kira was like, be
quiet, like mom and dad know wedon't have enough in common for
you to be happy in my room.
Like, what?
I don't get it.

Joi (30:24):
that was weird.
That was super weird.

Jann (30:28):
it was very weird, especially since this whole
book, all they're talking aboutis experience that they have in
common from being the only likeof four black people in this
high school.
like just the black experiencegives you like, like you a lot
in common, let alone beingsisters growing up together and
all of these things.

Joi (30:47):
It was

Jann (30:47):
it just didn't, I didn't get it and it threw me off.
I didn't actually like Kiara orSteph as the main characters.
I will say that I was absolutelyin love with Claire, like
Sakata, like her online personaand her as a person, both
flawless and I feel like shewasn't perfect, but her

(31:08):
apologizing for everything like,As much as it annoyed me, I was
like, yeah, I need to work onthat too myself.
like her knowing four differentlanguages, her going to school
for computers, her like having avery clear boundary with her
father, like just because he hadissues, he felt like she
shouldn't have work oncomputers.
And her standing her ground andsaying nah, like if you can't

(31:29):
accept me, then we're just notgonna have a relationship.
that was impressive to me.
And I would say even her, likeher gratitude towards other
people, how she kept saying Kirais such a strong person or not
Kira at the time.
Emerald is such a strong personcuz she didn't know the Kiara's
real name.
I was like, I don't see that.

Joi (31:49):
Yeah.

Jann (31:50):
I don't see what you're talking about.
she does not seem like a strongperson to me.
but I don't know, it just seemedlike she saw the best in
everybody, which

Joi (31:57):
it it was still, she only knew the online persona for the
most part, and know, knew thatshe made this game.

Jann (32:03):
it seemed like they didn't know a lot about each other's,
like personal life, but theystill, it seemed like joked
around and discussed things andmaybe Emerald Kiara, was more
forceful while she was talkingabout the game.
But man, she just seemed likeeverybody railroaded her in real
life.

Joi (32:18):
For sure.
She's very much late.
It came off as, she's not verylike forceful at all, and it's
not a character flaw or anythingthat's just if you're more laid
back and let people take overconversation.
I know people like that too, andthey're chill.
It's just whatever,

Jann (32:34):
But it seemed like she had opinions that she wasn't really
sharing.
Like at the beginning whenHarper was asking her about
dreadlocks, she immediately waslike, Ugh, I don't wanna say it.
I don't wanna be the opinion onBlackness and tell you what you
can or can't do.
And even her mind, she was like,I don't really care.
I don't think it's right, but Idon't really care.
I'm like, wait, what?
And then she was like, otherpeople might have a difference

(32:57):
opinion.
And I'm like, just tell her likewhat you think and then tell her
I'm not the authority on allblack people.
Like, why don't you just saythat?
And it seemed like Harper kindof came to that on her own, but
the way she came to it on herown made it seem like Kira has
never said that to her.
like it was never mentionedbefore.
It was just something she wasthinking in her mind, which was

(33:17):
crazy to me.
you would think if this is yourbest friend, I have no problem
telling my best friend.
that's a stupid question to askand maybe I'm just too blunt.

Joi (33:25):
ever

Jann (33:25):
Yeah.

Joi (33:27):
Yeah, and that's what I was

Jann (33:29):
what I was even talking about.

Joi (33:30):
best friends too.
I'm just like, has this alwaysbeen the way that it was?
Like you guys are just, or is itgetting worse in like certain
like situations?
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
It was a

Jann (33:40):
Even their reconciliation when she was like, I don't mind
talking about this stuff, but itseems like that's all we talk
about lately.
while I understand that like youcan't discuss their whole
history in this book, especiallysince that wasn't like the point
of the book, I feel like we gotno indication that the
relationship was anythingdifferent ever.

Joi (34:00):
weird.
I would not put those twotogether in a room, say that
they were best friends.
It's weird.

Jann (34:07):
Yeah.
Especially since, especiallysince it seemed like Steph and
Harper had more in common sincethey were in that sorority
together.

Joi (34:16):
believe that they were best friends and kiara's just tag
honestly.
You know what I mean?
Like they just know each otherby association, not them being
best friends.

Jann (34:25):
Or even when she offered her money for a tutoring session
to hang out.

Joi (34:28):
Yeah.

Jann (34:29):
It ain't weird.
And then especially since laterin the book, she was like, she's
never made me feel weird.
offering to foot the whole billfor pizza about her money.
And I was like, but she offeredyou money to hang out.

Joi (34:39):
Yeah.

Jann (34:40):
that seems weirder than saying, Hey, let me get the
pizza this

Joi (34:43):
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't, I haven't, I never hada extremely wealthy best friend
like that before either, so Idon't know.
I don't know what the dynamicsare.
It's weird.

Jann (34:56):
That's fair.
All right.
I feel like I'm skirting around.
The hotep

Joi (35:01):
Me too.
Like

Jann (35:02):
majority of this book because it's just exhausting to
even think about.

Joi (35:06):
it's, can we just say he was horrible?
Okay.
So like I do like how the authordid write it to make it seem
like, I didn't really believe itwas Wyatt.
I was like, you get into certainwhite forums and they all say
the same shit.
like they're like Parrots ofeach other.
So when he said it's a freecountry, I can play whatever
game I want.
I'm just like, he's just in somechat or some forum that said

(35:28):
that.
And maybe that other person wasin there too, saying the same
shit.
You know what I mean?
And that doesn't make me thinkthat it was Wyatt.
I didn't think it was Wyatt thewhole time.
I thought it was just somerandom, so I didn't think it was
Malcolm,

Jann (35:40):
you guess that it was Malcolm?

Joi (35:42):
No.
I thought just Malcolm was apiece of shit on his own.

Jann (35:48):
she just has a lot of shitty people around her, which
to be fair, I feel was honest.
but I figured The morning whereshe said it was like in rapid
succession when she said, you'relucky, why is not here today?
And then she also said like inthe next paragraph, it seemed
like, oh, I haven't seen Malcolmall morning.
I was like, oh, that's Malcolm.

Joi (36:08):
I didn't even think about it.

Jann (36:09):
at the same time I was like, in my head, I still feel
like that was an unbelievableplot twist for me.
and I will say Malcolm washorrible the entire time, but I
don't see in real life him goingin the game being a white
supremacist.
I would've saw him going intothe game being the hotep that he
is like, it doesn't make senseto me that he would disguise

(36:31):
himself as a white supremacist.
what was the point of that?

Joi (36:33):
I don't get it

Jann (36:34):
I don't get it.
if anything, I feel like hewould've went in there and been
lecturing people about how gamesare wasting their mind or
whatever.
Hoteps say,

Joi (36:45):
And then,

Jann (36:46):
Having a flower on his forehead to be a swastika and
then doing blackface and even toname himself, dread.
Scott, are you kidding me?

Joi (36:55):
Yeah.

Jann (36:55):
Like, so disgusting.
I just didn't see it.
I didn't see it.

Joi (36:59):
It was like he just lost it at the end.
And then he had that whole thingon the, internet to say
basically just threatening herlife, pretty much.
Your girlfriend that you've beenwith for years, I just don't get
it.

Jann (37:12):
There was a lot that I didn't get including like how
they like made an allude.
They, Brittany, Morris, likealluded to the fact that he got
into a fight to defend Kiara,but never really said why he was
defending her or what thecircumstances were.
I feel like that was weird thatshe never flushed that out
because the way they alluded toit seemed like they would
eventually, or the fact that allthree of them went to the same

(37:34):
school after, was this like arecurring or still present
threat at that school?
Like I don't understand thecircumstances of how they ended
up in Jefferson Academy, eventhough their main gripe the
whole book was that they hatebeing the only black people in
this school, even though he wasthe only one that was expelled.
I just don't know if Iunderstand completely.

Joi (37:54):
Me either.
it was weird about the fight.
It was weird that she and hersister went to a different
school because he's going to adifferent school, but then your
best friend and her brothersgoing to this school to like,
none of it made sense.
When you guys were all werefriends since you were kids,
right?

Jann (38:11):
And they waited until the end to explain that.
oh, we were friends fromsomething else and then we just
like her and Harper and then wejust ended up both at Jefferson
Academy.
Even though they didn't explainit well, they still alluded to,
oh, this is how it happened.
We met at some carnival orwhatever they met at, and I
bought Afu cake.
Doesn't really wrap up in a nicelittle bowl, but at least they

(38:31):
addressed it, I was veryconfused.
The whole book, if you movedhere, how is this your best
friend for life?
like it, it didn't make sense tome.
And I feel like a lot was leftlike just vague like that.
And like they explained it offin a very coincidental way.
The same way she was like soconcerned about lawsuits, but
the only threats, like once shefigured out it wasn't Wyatt and

(38:53):
once she figured out that, likeMalcolm not figured out, but
Malcolm said there wasn't alawsuit, all of a sudden she
wasn't worried about lawsuits.
these are two people that youknow, how do you know there
aren't other peoples planning onsuing you?
And they addressed it at the endwhere someone else solved it for
her.
oh, let's go under this company.
And they were covered.
But as far as her, it seemedlike she just didn't have a
concern about it at all

Joi (39:13):
Especially like once your real identity was out there, I
would be more concerned.
Like now they can dox me.
what?
It doesn't make any sense.
And I feel like the whole timetoo, like this whole thing about
the game being racist and it'sbeing on like the news for like
days and weeks, that wasn'tbelievable to me either.

(39:34):
I'm just like,

Jann (39:35):
The news cycle is very like, as soon as they can't
figure out who the developer is,they're like, oh, whatever.

Joi (39:41):
even with it too, and then it wasn't even just like a black
kid killed a white kid oranything.
Like more sensational than justbeing over a video game.
I feel like it might be

Jann (39:50):
you also have to think I do agree that when it's about
black people having their ownspace, it is made a bigger deal
because people love to callreverse racism.

Joi (40:00):
true, but I don't think they would bring a whole
professor from MIT on to talkabout it.
I think Fox News might go off onit for a little while, but then
that would be it.
I don't think it would be thiswhole national scandal that they
made it out to be,

Jann (40:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Joi (40:18):
because it is basically just like if someone had the
same size, if someone had like agame just like that and only
500,000 people technically useit, but only 300,000 use it all
the time, like constantly.
That's a very small amount ofpeople.
So it's just I don't see it likebeing that big of a deal.

Jann (40:38):
So quick side note about it being like an international
game.
I appreciated that they had somany people from all over the
world and it's like the wholeAfrican diaspora being
represented, but it took thelast battle in the game for
them, it seemed to introduce acard that wasn't about
African-Americans.
the fufu card with the cuisinefrom Africa.

(40:59):
I think she said Nigeria.
It was from, but that's the onlycard that I saw that represented
anything other thanAfrican-American culture, which
is like a very small subset ofthe African diaspora.

Joi (41:10):
And she I don't wanna use certain cards that other people
wouldn't know.
That's not like AfricanAmerican.

Jann (41:15):
Exactly.
But then it was all likeAfrican-American experience,
which I get because she'sAfrican-American, but to say
there's so many, I don't know alot of cars that represent all
of us and it has to beinclusionary, but like all the
cars that we knew were veryexclusionary to anyone not in
the us.
So

Joi (41:33):
honestly, generationally too.
Cuz like I said, the Satchmocard, I was like, So I was like,
It was just, I don't know.
It was weird.
Her reasonings are still verymuch the mindset of a 17 year
old, I think,

Jann (41:47):
I don't know if it was like age based reasoning that
was the issue.
I think it was just like her, Idon't know if it's the cars that
she chose to represent and I,when I say her, Brittany Morris,
like maybe she had differentcards in mind and just didn't
bring those up because she'salso.
African Americans.
So those are the cards that shefelt like her readers would

(42:07):
relate to.
I don't really know.
but I feel like they could haveadded some more cards in there
that were not just based on theAfrican American experience.

Joi (42:17):
Malcolm sucks.
I just got annoyed

Jann (42:20):
I, I still feel like, I still feel like I'm dancing
around what we do.
What we need to do is discusshoteps in general, because I
feel like Malcolm was notactually a character.
He was a concept of this hoteplike kind of person who.
Believe in only the advancementof black men.
And you can't be like in the L GB T mafia, you can't be a woman.

(42:43):
You can't be even like mixed orhave different interests other
than learning about like blackculture and black history and
it's definitely a concept andit's like category of people.
And yeah, I do feel like they'rerunning rampant, especially
right now with this whole Alphamale podcast pandemic that we're

(43:04):
experiencing.
And again, it's just soexhausting that I feel like I'm
tiptoed around and like I'm justso done of hearing this
conversation.
yeah, we kinda have to talkabout it

Joi (43:14):
No, we don't.
Don't bring it to the light.

Jann (43:19):
There were just so many red flags where I like, and this
is where I feel the mostdisconnect with her.
there were so many things thathe said that I'm like, girl,
hotep, run.
including Steph saying that hehad ashy ankles.

Joi (43:32):
Steph is my girl.

Jann (43:34):
but there's definitely like a dynamic or like maybe a
subset of African-American womenwho are like always making an
excuse for, black men becausethey experience so much in life
and they need to have a breakand they are old this or old
that.
And like we put ourselves on theback burner and just take it for
the advancement of the race eventhough they don't reciprocate.

(43:55):
And again, I'm not saying allblack men, but there's
definitely that whole typecategory.
Whole type.
That whole type category, who,that's what they believe.
And it's tiring.
It's

Joi (44:07):
I think it was like that for a long time up until like
recently.
we just constantly fought forblack men, and black men just
dogged with us constantly, themajority, not majority, but a
good number until, there waslike a, that one, situation when
the guy, he was talking about,like how much he hates black
women, and then he was murderedby his white girlfriend, and

(44:28):
then people were like, whyaren't you marching for him?
I'm like, we ain't, and we'renot gonna do it.
So it's just it's one of thosethings where I think a lot of
people are starting to realize,like reciprocation is good.
Like, yeah, everyone has afucking tough, especially here,
and you can't also be the harmthat we're trying to get rid of
in other communities harming us.
You know what I mean?

Jann (44:47):
I do know what you mean, but I also feel like, It's a
different, there's a lot ofdifferent, like annoying and
exhausting like people out therein general.
But I feel like the type thatyou're talking about who like
constantly is dogging out whiteor black women is different from
the hoteps because the hotepsare always talking about how you
are my queen, this queen, thatblack women are so beautiful,

(45:09):
like the exact opposite of whatyou're talking about.
But at the same time, they arestill standing for the
patriarchy, just not whitepatriarchy.
It's like black patriarchy.
So it's two different, likepeople for sure.
And I feel like they're bothequally exhausting.
But even with that, and I dofeel like I agree with you,

(45:29):
there's a revelation that'swe're not gonna put up with this
anymore.
But it's not like it's still alot of black women who put up
with hotep behavior because it'sbetter than the opposite, which
is the type you're talkingabout, which is, black women.
Are inferior to any other raceof women?
Pretty much

Joi (45:49):
And I disagree.

Jann (45:52):
I think we all would.
We all would.
yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot for sure.
Yeah.
But even with that said, again,I feel like it's unbelievable
that these were the only twothreats of lawsuit is the two
like boys her age that she knowsout of the whole international

(46:13):
world of 300,000 players thatare playing actively, 500,000
that are registered.
And all of the people who sawthat news segment, like if
you're really worrying aboutlawsuits, just because these two
boys that you know aren't gonnasue you doesn't mean your fear
of the lawsuit is just goingaway.
That was unbelievable.

Joi (46:32):
that whole thing with the

Jann (46:33):
It's unbelievable.
Oh yeah.
What about

Joi (46:36):
Wyatt was like, yeah, I got a password for the game.
it's not that exclusive, like

Jann (46:42):
that was, yeah, we get it.
It's easy to get a passcode.
my thing is, I feel like, I feellike once you get the passcode,
if you're a white person goinginto this game and it's all
about black culture, like that'swhat a lot of people who are
like racist, run away from.
they be bored.
I don't wanna learn about anyonethat's other.
Which is why every, like, all ofthese people have a issue with

(47:05):
all the new Marvel movies thatare coming out.
and I can't even say all, it'slike a handful, maybe five
Marvel movies are series that'snot about white men.
And they say oh, I'm done withMarvel because of this.
they want nothing to do withanything.
That's not them being the centercharacter.
So if they have a passport ornot, I don't feel like they're
gonna stick around,

Joi (47:22):
So you're telling me representation does matter,
right?

Jann (47:26):
I'm right.
You have five movies that aren'tabout you and you are like
livid.
Even the millions that we saw,and it's perfectly status quo,
you should learn

Joi (47:36):
All right.

Jann (47:37):
Why?
Why

Joi (47:38):
What?
What is the issue?
I don't, know what's notclicking, Steven.

Jann (47:45):
was another cool card, I thought was a representation
card, by the way.
Just fyi, I really wanna playthis game.
It seems really cool.

Joi (47:52):
I just wanna play the game so I can have a shop, I'll have
a flower shop.

Jann (47:58):
Yeah.
My favorite thing to do ingames, because I'm not really a
battler either, unless it's acard based battle game because
I'm a nerd like that.
but normally in games, I like tocollect things.
So the fact that you can collectstuff and make different cards,
I collect everything, or evenmake stuff like they said that
they thought the one person wascollecting things.
And like for forging in thedesert with all the sand and

(48:20):
then selling the objects, that'dbe me all day.
I wanna make stuff and collectthings.
That's all I wanna do.
I spent weeks on Sky Room, justpickpocketing everyone that I
could, did not finish the story,did not do any of the
storylines.
I just forged and pick-pocketed.
That's all.

Joi (48:41):
what I did at Red Dead.
I just, I didn't get past, thefirst chapter.
I just hunted.
Cause I like the way that it waslike set up and I just like live
the life.

Jann (48:51):
Yeah, I didn't get very far on Red

Joi (48:53):
Yeah.
I didn't do much.
I didn't do the story.
I didn't do gameplay really.
I just went on like trips to gosee the giant animals.
Like you're supposed to huntthough.
I'm like, I ain't hunting thatshit.
And I just looked at him like,laughs

Jann (49:06):
She, I, yeah, that's exactly how it was for me and
Skyrim.
Like anytime I saw like amammoth or a giant, I was like,
well, I guess I'm gonna go theopposite way.

Joi (49:16):
I seen what I had

Jann (49:17):
I wasn't heading anywhere in particular.

Joi (49:19):
I don't play games like you're supposed to.
And people get so annoyedwatching you play games.
I'm like, oh no, I don't wannado that.
I wanna go over here.
Follow the story.

Jann (49:28):
No, I'm good.
I'm doing what I wanna do.

Joi (49:32):
And that's why I like Stardew Valley.
The Sims.
What else?
What other like basic like game,like super easy.

Jann (49:41):
Okay.
So I did Zelda Breath of theWild for quite a while, but it
got so hard, like I couldn't goto some of the areas because the
enemies were too high withoutdoing the storyline.
And then I quit like, nah, Iwanna just explore the map.
If you're gonna make it thishard for me, I'm done.

Joi (49:57):
Yeah.
I tried it.
I played for like maybe 30minutes.
I was like, no, this was

Jann (50:04):
I wanna go back to it eventually, but it was a pretty
game.
I just couldn't get into it atthe moment.

Joi (50:10):
Even with, animal Crossing, I had to stop playing it because
I felt like it was too muchpressure to make your island
pretty.
I was like, I can't live to yourstandards.

Jann (50:22):
see, for me, it was like the charm of the competition.
once I got a five Star Island, Iwas like, all right, I'm done.

Joi (50:28):
Complete it.

Jann (50:29):
I definitely made sure to get that five Star Island first.

Joi (50:32):
I think mine is the little four four star,

Jann (50:36):
okay.
So another quick question.
Have you seen or read RadioPlayer One?

Joi (50:44):
I seen the movie.

Jann (50:46):
Okay.
What'd you think about themovie?
Because there's obviously a lotof similarities.

Joi (50:50):
Oh, okay.
So I liked the movie cuz I likedhow like the technology worked,
how you're like, on a treadmill.
And that's why I was thinkingtoo about like the gloves and
the, socks and stuff like,that's so cool.
Is that like a basic thing ordid you create those too?
Like, I was really confused Iwas like, if you created all
this stuff, how are you broke?
what's going on?

Jann (51:12):
Yeah.
No, she did not create thegloves.

Joi (51:15):
was very confused.

Jann (51:16):
That's funny though.
But it was a free game.
I was thinking that too.
Like how do you not have moremoney?
But it was a free game and likethe couple profits that they
got, I have no idea how theysaid they got it.
but they were putting into likethe game, like getting more
server space and stuff.
so that makes sense to me.
It's crazy that they never putlike any kinda ads or anything
to monetize in it, but if theywere trying to stay under the

(51:37):
radar, I guess that makes sense.
Still a lot to manage, A lot tomanage for two people.
But I think it's interesting.
I like the game ready playerone, not the game, the movie.
And I was asking Jax about it.
Jax is our brother, um, and hewas just talking about how the
whole game or movie, why do Ikeep saying game?

(51:57):
The whole movie seemed aboutgate keeping of like geek
culture.
Like you can't, it seemed likeyou don't know about this
really.
Oh, obviously like you're a newor it's like giving off those
vibes.
And I didn't really see it untilI read this book and was like,
oh, not to say that they weregatekeeping, but it's very
interesting, like out of allthose things and Ready Player

(52:18):
One that like, you had to getthe clue to find the secret.
It was all about white culture,And they didn't see that as
exclusionary because we'reexpected to know their culture,
whereas if they were to come tothis game, they wouldn't have
gotten any of them.
like any other clues, any otherreferences.
and it's just interesting howlike black culture is not really

(52:39):
American culture,

Joi (52:41):
Yeah.

Jann (52:41):
or African American culture.
and I say black, that's what Imean, because again, most of
these cards were related toAfrican-American culture and not
just the African diaspora, asif, as they represented it in
the book.

Joi (52:54):
What?

Jann (52:57):
Nothing.
Nothing.
Do you feel like, I know wemoved off the topic and I lost
train of thought, but do youfeel like it was outta
character?
I felt like it was outtacharacter for Malcolm to go in
there pretending to be a whitesupremacist.

Joi (53:11):
Yeah, it was completely outta character.
it turned from him being like,regular ho hotep.
annoying to, abusive to beingjust like a caricature, I feel
like,

Jann (53:21):
I feel like he was a caricature the whole time, but
like for him to completelychange this extreme personality
and go to the opposite extreme,I don't understand that,

Joi (53:29):
don't get it.
I didn't understand that at all.
what was his motivation behinddoing all that?
And then if he were to get thegame in his possession, which
just shut it down, I doubt youknow how to actually run it.
You know what I mean?
I just, none of it made sense.
I didn't understand hismotivation for it.
I just feel like he would try totell her like, once he knew it

(53:51):
was her, that he would just belike, stop fucking playing it.
Or take her like headset orsomething.
Like I just,

Jann (54:00):
Yeah, you would think he'd try to be controlling with her
somewhere like he had been.
I don't understand why he wouldpost her picture when his whole
goal up until this point was toprotect her.
but even just the, like I said,the motivation for him, like
wanting to break up the game, Idon't understand why he would go
on cover as a black sup or awhite supremacist.

Joi (54:19):
Yeah.

Jann (54:21):
It gave me like, in the Game of Thrones vibes, where
like ksi did a 180 and was justcrazy all of a sudden.
Like that's the kind of vibes itgave me.
that's a huge leap.

Joi (54:32):
Yeah.

Jann (54:32):
It's a huge leap.

Joi (54:35):
I like how Stephanie called the cops on them too.

Jann (54:39):
Yeah.
And that's a whole discussion initself.
should you call the police on ablack person?
I feel like if they do directlythreaten you like that.
Yeah.

Joi (54:51):
Absolutely.

Jann (54:53):
The issue is when they're not threatening you and they're
minding their own business andyou take you, them telling you
to get out of their face whenyou're bothering them as a
threat, like that's an issue.
leave people alone

Joi (55:05):
yeah.
I feel like a lot of blackpeople, they put up with a lot
of shit so they won't have toinvolve the cops until you have
to, Cuz I, they don't alwaysmake things better.
They usually make things worse,but that was so black and white
that it was just like, look,here's the evidence.
Get him away from me.
And even then, I don't know ifthey would put him in cuffs.
I think they would do like arestraining order, honestly.

Jann (55:28):
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure where they said they arrested
him just to put a restrainingorder on him.
Like I would've just went andgot a restraining order.
they do like to arrest people.
people.
okay, final thoughts.
What do you think, diddiscussion make you change your
rating at all?
Or what other final thoughts doyou have?

Joi (55:46):
no, it didn't make me really change my opinion.
It's just more just I'm glad wewere able to talk about it a
little bit.
I'm glad we were able to likework through why we had these
thoughts and like different, howother people could read it as, I
don't know.
I just don't think that'sanother book I would go back to.

Jann (56:05):
You say that with every book?
I would say that it is veryexhausting book to have, right?
Not that it's not good writing,it's just it's so real.
And it's interesting because it,it seems so exhausting because
again, each character wasn'tjust like one comment here or
there.
Like they're an allegory forlike bullshit that black people
have to deal with all the time.

(56:25):
So every sentence out of theirmouth was like something that
exhausts you.
And while I feel like people whodon't experience this was
helpful for them to like getinto the character, it was just
extra trauma and exhaustion

Joi (56:38):
I did not expect this book.
Okay.
So it's not my cup of tea kindof book.
I don't let technology, I'm badat it, my video games are very
basic that I play, and then itwas just like, I thought it
would be more of like a murdermystery almost, because I
thought it was, she was tryingto figure out who killed this
kid.
and why instead of her like, oh,someone killed this kid.

(56:59):
Here he is.
Now I gotta deal with backlashpeople trying to figure out who
I am and all of my issues.
I didn't expect that from thisbook at all, from the synopsis
of it.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.

Jann (57:10):
yeah, I can see that.

Joi (57:12):
Yeah.
That was my thought behind, Iwas like, oh, this is not the
book that I thought it was gonnabe.

Jann (57:17):
I feel like in the synopsis when she was talking
about how no one knew she wasthe developer, I figured it
would be her trying to keep heridentity secret.
but I can see how you would'vethought, like it was about
figuring out who killed this kidFor sure.

Joi (57:30):
And honestly, that didn't make much sense to me either.
Just like over money, like Ijust, I over gave money.
Like it just never made

Jann (57:37):
From what I understand though, like the, what is the,
what is his name?
Who died?
Jamal.
Jamal was working with two otherpeople, his brother and the guy
who killed him, and they allgave him the game money.
and they were supposed, he wassupposed to buy stuff for them
to share, but before he actuallybought stuff, he changed his

(57:58):
mind and said, I'm not buyingit, and if you want your coins
back, you have to give me realmoney.
That was the issue.
So the guy who killed him gotpissed about that and killed
him.
That's what happened.

Joi (58:11):
That's such a huge escalation.
Like why not just report him tothe mods?

Jann (58:15):
because people are crazy.
Yeah.

Joi (58:17):
It's crazy.
I don't know.
It's weird.

Jann (58:21):
Yeah, for sure.
yeah, I don't think my ratinghas changed from the discussion.
I still give it a three and ahalf stars.
again, I thought it was a coolbook.
I would recommend it to people.
I would definitely let them knowwhat it is upfront.
Like you are gonna be a littlebit exhausted if you're like
tired of talking about race,like a lot of us are.
And I will say too, some of theslang that they use, it's just a

(58:43):
little exhausting after seeinglike Gen Z try to claim all
these like AAV terms as Gen Zgeneration, like terms, that's
already exhausting in itself.
And then to see some of thesewords like use over and over
again, added to that.
But then I did see that thisbook came out three years ago,
right at the end of 2019, wheresome of them were still new-ish.

(59:06):
So yeah, while a lot of thelanguage was a little cringy, I
can see it being like morerelevant then, That Yes.
Card or YA card.
So annoying.
Like it didn't make any sense tome.
And I will say that too, likethat was my big issue with Steph
is like, they went from nevertalking.
I don't understand why Stephdidn't tell her that she was
playing Slay if it was never asecret for her.

(59:27):
It was just like, you have thishuge expensive, like VR set you
just never told anyone about.
Like why wouldn't you havementioned it at least once?
That was weird to me.
And then the fact that like nowshe's flying to France to talk
about the business as well,like, how did you get in on
this?
Like, why are you arrangingthis?

Joi (59:46):
she became a moderator at

Jann (59:48):
pushy the whole time.
Yeah.
She became a moderator.

Joi (59:52):
You can't dog my garage,

Jann (59:53):
Um, okay.
So yeah, I don't think there'sanything else I wanna say about
it.
I think that's all of myfeelings.

Joi (01:00:04):
yeah, I think so too.
Like you're right though thatYes.
Yeah.
Like I was listening to the lastlike few minutes of it.
I'm just like, stop.

Jann (01:00:13):
The whole fight between her and her sister was just like
lame and cringy to me.
Especially when they startedlike saying that Long live the
queens.
Like you literally came, you'vebeen playing this for a couple
months and now you're like oneof the main mods of the game.
Like you would think she'd atleast start her off kind anyway.
It's her sister.
I'm not gonna,

Joi (01:00:34):
I'm just gonna say,

Jann (01:00:35):
not gonna shame, nepotism

Joi (01:00:37):
that's what I'm about to say.
if you created a game and you'requeen in it, I'm like, Jan, come
on now.
At least make me a princess,please.
A duchess conscious.

Jann (01:00:47):
princess,

Joi (01:00:48):
I'm fine with that.
come on, a little bit ofnepotism.

Jann (01:00:51):
no way like, could you like, imagine like two weeks
into you finding out that I likedid this whole game, you're
arranging business meetings forus to fly to Paris and get a
business deal.
No, that's not something yousurprised me with.
That's something you talk to meabout, like what is happening
anyway, like I said, they'resisters.

(01:01:11):
what, even though they saidthey're not even close enough to
laugh in the same room withouttheir parents being suspicious,
whatever,

Joi (01:01:17):
right?
Although they hung out with eachother at school all the time.
That just didn't make sense tome.
I dunno.

Jann (01:01:22):
it didn't.
Yeah, like I said, I dunno.
But, we're really interested tohear what you all listening
think about this book if youagree, if you disagree with
anything that we said.
So if you stayed long enough tohear about how you can reach or
get a copy, of this book sent toyou, we will be having a
drawing.

(01:01:43):
All you have to do is go andleave us a review wherever
you're listening to thispodcast.
give us a book recommendationfor something that you think we
should read, in our book club,and we'll pick a winner from
everyone who left a review.

Joi (01:01:57):
That's right.

Jann (01:01:58):
Anything I left out, joy.

Joi (01:02:00):
No, let's hear next week's synopsis.

Jann (01:02:07):
All right, so next week we will be, reading our first book
of October.
so we're gonna be doing a horrorslash thriller slash mystery
theme Our first book, that we'regoing to be reading and
reviewing, is called Ace ofSpades, and I'm going to butcher

(01:02:29):
this name, but it's by FaridaAbike, LAE.
I'm not sure, but I will figurethat out before we review the
book.
All right, so here's a synopsis,welcome to NI's Private Academy
where money pays the hallwaysand the students are never less
than perfect until now becauseanonymous texture ACEs is

(01:02:53):
bringing two students darksecrets to light.
Talented musician Devin burhimself in rehearsals, but he
can't escape the spotlight whenhis private photos go.
Public head girl, chia Makaisn't afraid to get what she
wants, but soon everyone willknow the price she has paid for
power.
Someone is out to get them,both.
Someone who holds all the ACEsand they're planning much more

(01:03:16):
than a high school game.
So that is also a young adult,but kind of mystery, genre that
we'll be reading next week.
it sounds exciting.
It's very interesting that it's,we picked another young adult
novel, that has to do with arich kind of academy,

Joi (01:03:34):
think it's interesting that like all these high schoolers
have these crazy likeexperiences.
Like I just remember throwing ona sweatshirt and going to school
and going home, going to sleep.
Like

Jann (01:03:46):
Reading my Harry Potter books, pretty much,

Joi (01:03:48):
can you imagine like being a background character, like any
of these movies or shows oranything, just what are y'all
doing now?

Jann (01:03:54):
right?

Joi (01:03:55):
what are you

Jann (01:03:55):
It is pretty much oh, for real.
That's crazy.
Anyway, so I was at home,getting some cereal and we were
outta milk.
Can you believe that?

Joi (01:04:03):
this is the third time this week I locked myself out of the
house and my mom's going to killme.

Jann (01:04:09):
Yesterday I forgot to put the laundry in the dryer and
man, was my mom pissed?

Joi (01:04:14):
listen, do you have to hug from last night?
I just went to sleep a napturned into like bedtime.
Like I don't,

Jann (01:04:22):
exactly.

Joi (01:04:24):
I

Jann (01:04:24):
I don't know, maybe it's something in, we probably
shouldn't be at the otherextreme, but whatever.
That's what life was.
so anyway, let's, wrap it up forthis week.
Joy, do you wanna let them knowwhere they can, leave comments,
let us know what they think, orjust reach us

Joi (01:04:37):
Yeah.
And the comments I section?
No.
Was kidding.
You can find us at Black GirlReads, podcast on Twitter,
TikTok and Instagram.
The black is spelled b l k cuzthat's probably cool.
Kids do it Dan.

Jann (01:04:53):
YouTube as well.
right.
that wraps it up for the week.
We can't wait to see you nextweek.
Bye.

Joi (01:05:01):
Bye.