August 13, 2023 • 60 mins
Prepare to be swept away by an emotional whirlwind in our latest episode of BLK Girl Reads Book Club Podcast, featuring the hauntingly powerful "White Smoke" by the incomparable Tiffany D. Jackson.
🌪️🖤 In this gripping psychological thriller, we dive deep into the darkness of the human mind alongside Marigold. With every page turned, we're drawn into a tumultuous storm of emotions, secrets, and the raw intensity of life's struggles.
Tiffany D. Jackson's writing is a force of nature, compelling us to confront our deepest fears and inner demons. 🌊🌫️ Her storytelling artistry leaves us breathless, questioning reality and seeking solace in the shadows of the unknown.
As we explore the depths of "White Smoke," we'll unravel the tangled web of truth and deception, leaving our hearts heavy and our minds racing. This heart-rending journey will challenge us, move us, and awaken dormant feelings.
Join our book club's vulnerable and heartfelt discussion as we delve into the character's psyche and the heart-wrenching themes that resonate with the human experience. 🕯️💔 The echoes of "White Smoke" will linger long after the last word is spoken.
Tune in now to experience the emotional upheaval of "White Smoke." This is a story that will leave an indelible mark on your soul.
Share this emotional episode alert with your fellow readers and seekers of truth. Let's journey through the storm together and find the light within the shadows.
Happy reading and listening,
# young adult
# black literature
# horror
# reviews and recommendations
# fall
Don't forget to check out our other engaging episodes on the Blk Girl Reads Book Club Podcast! We cover a wide range of captivating books, ensuring there's something for everyone. From classic novels to contemporary masterpieces, we provide insightful discussions, author interviews, and much more.
Keep turning those pages, bookworms! Until next time, happy reading and stay lit! 📚✨
Instagram: @BlkGirlReadsPodcast
TikTok: @BlkGirlReadsPodcast
Twitter: @BlkGirlReadsPod
YouTube: @blkgirlreadspodcast
FaceBook: @BLK-Girl-Reads-Podcast
Gmail: BlkGirlReadsPodcast@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jann (00:01):
Marigold is running from ghosts, the phantoms of her old
life.
Keep haunting her, but a movewith her newly blended family
from a small California beachtown to the embattled Midwestern
city of Cedarville, might be thefirst start she needs.
Her mom has accepted a new jobwith a sterling foundation that
comes with a free house, onethat Mary now has to share with
her.
Ready.
10 year old stepsister Piper,the renovated picture.
(00:23):
Perfect home on Maple Shree.
Sitting in between twodilapidated houses surrounded by
weary neighbors, has itssecrets.
That's only half the problem.
Household items vanish.
Doors open on their own lightsturn off shadows, walk past
rooms.
Voices can be heard in thewalls, and there's a foul smell
seeping through the vents.
Only Mary seems to notice worse.
(00:45):
Piper keeps talking about afriend who wants Mary gone, but
running from ghosts.
It's just the metaphor, right?
As the house closes in, Marylearns that the danger isn't
limited to Maple Street.
Cedarville has the secrets too,and secrets always find their
way through the cracks.
Okay, welcome to the podcasteverybody.
(01:07):
So White Smoke by Tiffany D.
Jackson.
Joi (01:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (01:13):
How do you guys like it?
Joy.
You wanna go first?
Joi (01:17):
Ah, I'll give it a two and a half.
Yeah.
If you told me it was the sameauthor from last week, I, I'm
surprised.
Did not enjoy it too much.
Jann (01:28):
Okay.
Okay, Jackson?
Um,
Jax (01:32):
I'd say like 3.5.
Jann (01:36):
3.5.
All right.
All right.
I would give it a five.
Jax (01:44):
Yeah.
Jann (01:44):
Honestly, I've been going back and forth if I wanna do
like a four and a five star.
So I'll give it a four and ahalf stars, four and a half, and
you'll have to excuse me, Ijumped right into the ratings
and I forgot to dointroductions.
Joi (01:56):
Yeah.
Jann (01:57):
So I'm your host, Jan,
Joi (01:59):
And I'm your cohost, joy.
Woo.
Jann (02:03):
and we have a guest around this time.
You wanna introduce yourself.
Jax (02:06):
I'm Jackson, the coolest guy on this whole podcast ever.
Jann (02:10):
Okay,
Joi (02:11):
this podcast.
Jann (02:13):
that's very true.
All right, so we're going withtwo and a half.
Three and a half.
Four and a half.
All right.
So I'm just gonna give ourspoiler warning now, because if
you haven't read it and youdon't wanna know what's going
on, you should log off now.
all right.
So who wants to go first andexplain their rating?
Joi (02:35):
I didn't like it, it has spooky moments.
but that's all I can really sayabout it.
I didn't care for Marigold,didn't care for, Piper didn't,
well, Sammy was kind of cute,but it's just like, I didn't
find the main character Marigolda likable character, you know,
at all.
she just seemed very like, um,annoying throughout
Jann (02:58):
you have a role of rating because you didn't find any,
like, connection with thecharacters.
Joi (03:02):
None.
Yeah.
Jann (03:04):
Okay.
Jax, a quick overall explanationof your rating.
Jax (03:10):
So I feel like mine is actually the opposite that.
The ratings higher because I didlike the characters.
I didn't like marigold it.
It's not that she was like,well, she was kind of like
standoffish the whole time andit did start getting annoying.
But it's more that Sammy andYusuf were just so good that
they saved the book on top ofthat, like they had interesting
(03:32):
themes, but personally I feellike they didn't dig into it
enough to really justify beingthere and to be an aspect of the
story as well as I just haveissues with the ending
Jann (03:45):
Okay.
Jax (03:45):
and it was really
Jann (03:46):
All right.
Joi (03:47):
It stopped.
It was abrupt, right?
An abrupt
Jax (03:49):
It was, I hated that.
Jann (03:51):
I think it's interesting and you both said you didn't
like Marigold because I feellike I enjoyed the main
character and I actually likethe ride.
I know have said multiple timeson this podcast that I don't
read scary books.
This was just scary enough forme.
Like it was scary enough to becreepy and I like was scared
legitimately like could not getout of bed when I was reading
(04:13):
it, but I actually read it atnight, like under the blankets
and it was a fun time and itwasn't so scary that like I
couldn't sleep.
So that was nice.
It was just the right amount.
Joi (04:24):
it was not scary.
Jan, like, I feel like our
Jann (04:27):
All right, joy, let's get, let's hear your recap.
I don't wanna hear about how youthought it wasn't that scary.
Let's hear the.
Joi (04:36):
so white smoke.
So we have Marigold and Sammy,brother and sister.
Um, I think Sammy's like, howold was he?
Like eight, nine.
He's a youngin.
Jax (04:46):
well, he was in middle school, wasn't he?
Jann (04:48):
Yeah, he was like 13
Joi (04:50):
Really?
Jann (04:50):
because Piper was 10.
Jax (04:52):
Yeah.
Jann (04:53):
Joy, this is why you can't do recaps.
I would, I would expect you todo at least a little bit of
reviewing before you did therecap.
Joi (05:01):
Lemme tell you something.
The way that I pictured Sammy,he just seems so adorable.
Like, okay.
You know?
Um
Jann (05:08):
real quick?
Joi (05:09):
hmm.
Jann (05:10):
Piper was obviously the youngest, and I literally just
said her 10 year old sister inthe synopsis.
So you didn't even listen to thesynopsis if you thought he was
eight or nine.
Jax (05:20):
you clearly have an issue with the illiterate.
Let's, let's dig into that
Joi (05:25):
No, I was thinking, um, the little brother Antonio, the
little cousin from, um, uh,what's that one?
Uh, Maribel.
What's that?
What's that?
What's that?
Not Disney movie, Encanto.
That little boy, Antonio.
That's who I pictured this wholetime at Sammy.
Jann (05:43):
That was silly because he was a full blown middle
schooler.
Now continue.
Let's see what else you gotwrong.
Joi (05:52):
So Mary Gold and Sammy brother and sister, um, their
mom is Raquel.
They, um, they're moving awayfrom California with their new
stepdad, Alec and his daughterPiper.
Um, and it's because the mom,Raquel has a new opportunity
'cause she's a, um, a, a writeror an architect or something
(06:13):
like that.
Um, Yeah, she, so she got anopportunity to live in this
really nice free home,'cause ahistorical build or something
like that for free.
So they're all moving out there.
Um, apparently this is rightafter Marygold had like an
overdose.
Um, like I don't know what shetook.
(06:33):
I forgot what she took.
Um, but, uh,
Jann (06:36):
It was weed laced with fentanyl.
Joi (06:38):
yeah.
Jax (06:39):
it was fentanyl.
I don't know why I had ketaminein my head.
Joi (06:45):
Yeah, me either.
Uh, um, but basically, um,they're trying to get settled.
The house is spooky, ooky.
The movers don't wanna staythere very long after dark.
once they start going to schooland everything, things still are
kind of weird.
Piper, Mary, girl and Sammydon't really get along.
Um, Alec is.
Alec is clueless.
(07:05):
He's just a clueless white guybasically.
And always like taking up forhis daughter who's kind of a
bratt no matter what happens.
And um, Markel is just kind ofthere.
Um, Marigo, she meets Erica andYusef and Erica.
She smokes weeded and that'swhat she's been honing for since
(07:26):
she left California like anaddict.
Every two minutes she needs someweeded.
Um, she hasn't figured out whereto get it'cause apparently there
was this whole violation withthe city or whatever, outlawed
for a while.
Um, and she gets the idea tojust grow it in one of the
abandoned homes, near her house.
'cause her house is the only onethat's not abandoned, right on
this street, maple Street.
(07:49):
she's doing that and that's howshe met Yusef to get supplies
for her garden because herparents don't trust her with her
money or anything like thatafter she overdosed.
Um, and spooky things happen.
It turns out someone's living intheir house, two people, Ms.
Sugar and hi and her son, andthat's it.
(08:12):
That's how it cuts off at theend.
Jann (08:14):
What I don't understand that is not true.
What I don't understand aboutyour recaps joy is that you give
so much unnecessary detail thatI feel like you just get tired
of talking and skip to the end.
Like you never actually talkabout the plot of the book.
Like, what are you, why do youhave to give everybody's career
and ages that you always getwrong?
(08:36):
Like what?
Jax (08:37):
feel like I, I got people's astrology sign, but I don't know
anything about the city.
Jann (08:42):
Exactly like, but joy, what's the book about though?
Joi (08:45):
Listen.
Listen, it is my summary and Ido it the way I wanna do it.
Jax (08:51):
Well, yeah, we know it's your summary.
That's why it's wrong.
Jann (08:58):
All right, well, we kind of started talking about it, so
let's actually give a rating forhow scary you guys thought it
was since that's socontroversial.
Out of five stars,
Joi (09:07):
One.
Jann (09:08):
I think it was a solid three and a half stars, which I,
that's where I want my scary,and I'm very happy with that.
Jax (09:18):
I am, I'm going to go with Joy.
I'm also, I'm going to be givingit a one.
And that's partially why my,score for the book overall was
so low.
It was supposed to be a horrorstory.
And I, it's not even the sortthat like, oh, well if you think
about it's scary.
It was, like a, uh, campfirestory, if anything,
Jann (09:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Jax (09:41):
it was just quaint.
It wasn't scary at
Jann (09:44):
level scary.
That's fun.
Anything else is too scary.
Jax (09:48):
it's, that's fine.
When you're five.
Joi (10:06):
Yeah,
Jann (10:07):
just don't understand why it was necessary.
Jackson?
No.
Jax (10:09):
mean, it just wasn't even spooky for me personally.
Joi (10:14):
I feel like I've personally had spookier instances of ghost
encounters than this book.
Honestly.
I'm just like, that's nowherenear as bad as what I actually
live.
So I'm not really that scared.
Jann (10:24):
like the scariest part was
Joi (10:27):
Um, Piper, when they're trying to leave the house, like
when, um, this, like Sammy'svoice calling for a marigold and
he is like, I'm not, that's notme.
Get in the closet.
And then Piper's just likelooking at her down the, at the
bottom of the stairs and thenlike looks off and then walks
away.
I'm like, that bitch is haunted.
Yeah.
Jann (10:48):
Yeah, that was scary.
Well, it wasn't like her wasn'tas scary to me, but like them
listening to his voice was veryscary to me.
'cause I've had instances likethat
Jax (10:59):
That was definitely the, uh, peak in horror for this.
Joi (11:03):
No, That part was scary too.
But what else kind of like gaveme the Oggie Boogie was the part
when she was in the, in thekitchen at nighttime and the
door was open and then the musicstarted playing and everyone was
like, what's going on?
But the door was open and shewas like, I don't know if I
wanna move and make a run for itto go upstairs or what I wanna
do, you know?
Jann (11:23):
Looking back on it though, it seems like they accidentally
left the door open and someonestarted the music to distract
her so she wouldn't go down.
Joi (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (11:31):
Like that's what it seems like.
But that part wasn't that scaryfor me.
What freaks me out was thealarms.
I dunno why that freaked me outso much when it was like rapid
alarms going off and it waslike, I think it was the
psychological factors where theyhad her freaked out and checking
on the beds and then the bedbugsand having her freak out like
that.
(11:53):
That's, that scared the shit outof me.
Y'all go hate on this bug, but Ifelt like it was a nice little
haunted mansion, like from theDisney right moment where you're
scared but not terrified.
And I genuinely like that.
Joi (12:04):
Haunted mansion?
Ain't scary.
Jax (12:06):
is.
I don't get scared of thehaunted mansion.
Jann (12:10):
that's what
Joi (12:10):
No one does.
Jann (12:11):
spooky, but not terrifying.
like Halloween decorations.
You get you in the mood forspooky without scaring the
literal shit outta you.
Perfect.
Joi (12:22):
All
Jann (12:22):
That's what I want.
Jax (12:24):
Alright.
Jann (12:26):
I wish more horror novels were like, this is all I'm gonna
say.
Joi (12:31):
man.
If horror novels would likethis, I would never read them.
It wouldn't be scary at all.
Jax (12:37):
Like I don't mind that, like it basically jumped to
thriller.
That's why I expect from mosthorror, I just don't feel like
it did it so well.
Joi (12:46):
I don't know, like it just the way that it was going.
I didn't care for Mary girlconstantly feeding for weeded,
and I didn't
Jann (12:53):
Oh, well,
Joi (12:54):
Hmm.
Jann (12:55):
since you're talking about the characters again, how about
you just tell us your least andfavorite and
Joi (13:00):
I think my least favorite would probably be, Whoever the
mayor guy was, I don't know hisname.
He was a villain.
Jann (13:09):
Sterling.
Joi (13:10):
Yeah.
And then, my most favorite wouldprobably be, Sammy?
Yeah.
Sammy,
Jann (13:19):
Okay.
Joi (13:20):
what about
Jann (13:21):
mean self-explanatory as far as Sammy, he was an awesome
character.
Joi (13:25):
Yeah.
Self-explanatory for the villainass mayor.
Jann (13:30):
Yeah.
Jackson.
Jax (13:33):
My least favorite was Piper and my favorite.
I absolutely loved Yusef.
He was awesome.
Joi (13:41):
Why didn't you
Jann (13:42):
I disagree with both of those.
Jax (13:44):
Really?
Jann (13:45):
Like not in my top, like Piper is not in my bottom and
Yusef is not in my type.
But I'm curious.
I see your choices.
Jax (13:53):
So like I really did think about it.
I was like, okay, well maybethey were saying it's
themselves.
Piper is just a kid.
But even then
Jann (14:01):
She's 10.
Jax (14:01):
you'd have to be and 10, you'd have to be especially
stupid just have actual reallife people living in your house
that you are talking to whendealing with and threatening
your family.
And just not make anyone awareof this.
I just felt like even for a 10year old, for any person, she
(14:23):
was just being completely.
Unreasonable and there isunreasonable for children, but
we deal with children youngerthan 10 and they are more
reasonable in those situationsthan Piper was.
Jann (14:37):
Know.
I felt like she was tellingeverybody the whole time that
she was real, and no onebelieved her, and no one liked
her at that point either.
I just figured, she was like,well, this is my friend.
At this point.
I've alerted people and no one'slistening to me.
She's the only person listeningto me.
Jax (14:52):
I mean, I suppose, but like she knows her dad listens.
He listens to her over everybody
Jann (14:57):
told him.
And he kept saying, leave heralone.
She has an imaginary friend.
And he was like, yeah, it'sokay.
I know Miss Sugar.
Miss Sugar.
Like he made it seem like hebelieved her and just didn't
care.
Jax (15:09):
She could definitely do more than just say, oh, it's
real.
Like you could say, oh, it'sreal, this and this and this.
She's just choosing not to whenjust being fine with that person
creeping around the house.
Jann (15:22):
have said something too.
And he was a grown ass man.
Like
Jax (15:26):
Wait,
Jann (15:26):
he kept saying, he suspected if you suspect enough
to spend every night in yourtruck outside, you could have
said something.
Jax (15:32):
oh, for sure.
That's, that was
Jann (15:34):
Well, that's just one of the reasons why she's not in my
bottom.
First of all, she did alertpeople.
Mr.
Watson had his suspicions anddidn't say anything, and Mr.
Sterling for sure knew and waslike plotting on destroying the
whole neighborhood and thatcaring what happened to a little
girl who was only 10.
So yeah, no way is she in mybottom.
Joi (15:52):
I agree what you're saying because she's a little older to
let people just be in the housewith your family.
But she is still younger tounderstand if you think that
your new step siblings don'tlike you, your dad just thinks
you have an imaginary friend,there's not much more you can do
past that, especially being akid.
Jann (16:12):
I think mostly it's like bad parenting because even when
she was saying crazy stuff likeI didn't like mess with her
things, it was Ms.
Sugar, that should have beensome disciplinary action.
And then she kind of probablywould've insisted and you
would've checked it out.
But instead, they chose toignore everything that she was
complaining about.
Like, okay, now she's not beingreasonable, so let's just ignore
(16:34):
it instead of digging deeper.
Jax (16:36):
if I'm going to edit it, then my least favorite then
would just be Alec because histerrible daughter is terrible
the whole time and he's notdoing anything about it.
Jann (16:45):
Alec was awful.
the worst moment as far ascharacters in the entire book is
when he's saying I've had enoughyour addict daughter like put
Piper at risk and was saying allthese awful things about a
teenager, and then turned aroundlike the next day.
The mom was like, well, he'shurt that we had a contingency
plan.
Like, did you really just callthis girl an addict and talked
(17:07):
about how she's on drugs, howshe's putting everybody in
danger and this is the laststraw all in front of her face
and then be pissed because wepredicted it.
Joi (17:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (17:17):
Like really?
Like that was you as a grown mansaying this stuff to a child and
you're mad because she said,okay, this isn't working out.
I'm leaving.
Joi (17:26):
That, yeah, that was really messed up.
I didn't like him the entiretime pretty much, but I just
figured he was.
I watch a lot of scary showstoo, and it's always the white
dad that's just like, there'snothing going on.
Everything's fine, you know?
But, at the end he did have alittle bit of a character
development, like, Hey, youcan't talk about my daughter
that way.
At the end, and I mean, that'sjust kind of like there, there
was worse people in this story.
(17:46):
I feel like that makes him notas much a villain to me
personally.
You know?
Like he sucks,
Jann (17:51):
he was possessed he said he knew where the key was and
nobody knew where the key was.
And she was like, is he goingdown here the whole time?
I'm like, oh, so Alec ispossessed.
That's why he's acting like africking maniac.
But no, that was just him.
Joi (18:03):
I didn't think that, I just thought it was just like, oh,
it's a white guy.
He got the key, he like, youknow, ghost shit don't
Jann (18:09):
Well, what about the tooth though?
Like when you saw the tooth onthe ground and she was like, oh,
well, um, Piper is looking likereal possessed lately and losing
weight and looks frail, but thistooth is too old to be hers.
And I was like, it's Alec,
Joi (18:27):
I just thought it was just like, oh, ghost tooth.
Jax (18:32):
I think at that point I kind of called their twist just
because this was something thatthis is something that happens
often enough that it justimmediately came to mind.
Joi (18:43):
It.
It was one of those things wherewhen it came out, whether there
were actually people living in,I was like, yeah, I can see it.
But I,
Jann (18:53):
They were well into the fight before I realized what the
twist was like when they werewatching the actual video and
they saw, she came out thecabin.
I was like, oh, so this is agrudge type ghost.
she's like, I did not think itwas actually people there.
I'm like, they can see thisthing.
Joi (19:12):
No, it took me a minute to, I thought she was like a, a gey
kind of ghost too, coming outthe cabinet when she saw like
her scarred arm.
And I was like, holy shit, shehas the ghost.
It's right there.
And then she did something.
She's like, oh, wait a minute,she's human.
I was like, oh, oh, okay.
Burns.
Okay.
Okay.
Gotcha, gotcha.
I kind of prefer it to be ghoststhough.
(19:32):
I feel like it would've beenspookier if it was actually
ghosts and not someone living inthe house.
Jann (19:36):
Well, you know how I feel about scary stuff.
I prefer a thriller to a, like apossession.
So I was like ecstatic with atwist.
Like, oh, thank God I beat theshit out of somebody in my house
Anyway,
Joi (19:48):
That's the thing though, like with it coming to be
people, you're like, okay, I canfight them, I can shoot them,
whatever.
But if it's actually a ghost inthe ghosty sun or a demon or
whatever, that shit's scary.
Yeah, that's what I'm sayingthough.
And that's why it went from likea three to a one.
I was like, okay, people creepy.
I get like the ick kind offactor, but I'm not actually
(20:08):
scared anymore.
I'm like, mm.
Jann (20:10):
That whole scene where she would like, when you think about
that scene when he took herblanket off of her, that is
scary as hell.
It's not even just a ick, it'sscary.
This Mr.
Sugar went as far as poisoningthis guy, but she was in her
phone typing alarms, like shecould have stabbed her at any
point.
That is terrifying.
Joi (20:29):
I mean, yeah.
That's scary.
And like I said, it gives youthe, it comes, it's like
someone's in my house, you knowwhat I mean?
But that, that's scary when yousay it that way For sure.
And it makes it even funnierthat he just made us a angry
face.
Jann (20:42):
Terrifying, terrifying.
Well, that was Piper though.
It wasn't him.
It was Piper the next day.
Jax tell us, um, we gotsidetracked.
Um, but Yusef, why is he your f.
Jax (20:55):
I thought he was actually very well written.
Like his, how he reacted tothings made perfect sense.
His backstory was wellpresented.
It is not just all, thrown outthere.
And I just felt like he wasactually a good character.
And like I said with the, stickynote thing that was really cute.
I liked him.
Joi (21:15):
I feel like he was a little bit too judgy for me.
Like he treated her as if sheknew exactly what was going on
in the town and like the wholething about the weeded
situation, he was like superpissed off.
He could've like, listen,marygrove, I know you're from
California weeded or whatever.
Right?
Cool.
Here, not so much.
All the blacks are gone.
(21:35):
They locked our asses up.
They, you know, they plantedshit like, you know, like you
can't be fucking around withthat kind of shit here.
And that will be the end ofthat.
Like, there's no reason to bepissed off with her and, and,
and drive her away and, and beangry even though he forgave her
pre pretty easily.
The whole thing about the house,I didn't wanna tell you that the
house was haunted, like I'mliving here a heads up, you
(21:57):
know, we so many times and thatnever came up.
Jann (22:01):
he seemed like a bit of a know-it-all and judgy, like the
first time that she said Hey,Erica asked her if she wanted to
hit.
And first of all, he spoke forher, which I was completely
like, don't speak for me.
And then got pissed when shesaid yes, was like, okay, ick.
That gave me the ick, ifanything.
And then when he got mad at heragain, I'm just like, either
(22:22):
choose to hang out with her ordon't.
don't get pissed at her forbeing the way she is and judge
her for it or even when she hadto check him.
I'm so glad she did check himwhen.
She said she has anxiety and heimmediately was like, what do
you have to be anxious about?
Like just because you're goingthrough stuff does not mean
other people are not goingthrough stuff.
I have anxiety as a fullsentence.
(22:43):
I don't have to get into thedetails with you, and you
definitely don't have the rightto tell me what's anxiety worthy
or not You do not know me.
Like he seemed to assume a lotabout her and then got pissed
when it came to not be true.
So I agree.
He had a lot of good, qualities,but there were also enough that
I was like, okay, I'm not reallyfeeling him to be like a
favorite.
Jax (23:04):
See, I totally agree with what you guys are saying, but
just that they wrote him to havethe presence of mind that he
does come around.
He does change his mind.
He doesn't completely cut peopleoff.
He came back and apologizedabout the, anxiety things, like,
I respect that because you knowhow many people wouldn't, and
(23:24):
that he would, and he's ateenager too because, I mean,
the bar is low for teenagers.
But yeah, I just feel like they,he's, he was well-rounded.
Jann (23:34):
I agree and I feel like I like Tiffany D.
Jackson.
This is only the second bookI've read from her, but I can
say I like her novels becauseall of her characters are
imperfect, but still likable.
and I feel that way with Pipertoo.
Like I feel like she was 10right now.
I feel like if I found one of myrelatives that I'm very close to
dead, I'd be traumatized, butshe, at a very young age,
(23:55):
younger than 10, found hergrandmother and had to sit with
her body until her dad got home.
That's traumatizing for anyone.
And then to immediately afterthat, move in with this family
who doesn't seem to like you.
one of the teens who you don'tknow what drugs are, but she is
like saying all these nastythings to you and then overdose.
That's a lot for one 10 year oldto go through and still like
(24:18):
their family.
and then to figure out thatMarigo never apologized to her
for any of that.
I can definitely understand whyshe was the way she was, and
that's with everything that shegoes through.
There's a lot of snotty little10 year olds that are like that
just because their parents areremarried without going through
any of that trauma.
So yeah, I would say that shedefinitely wasn't my least
(24:38):
favorite for that.
But if we're talking about myfavorite characters, My favorite
character was Marigold.
I'm so surprised that you guysdidn't like her so much.
And I'll tell you exactly why.
I love that she went through somuch and was still able to stand
up for herself like she did withYusef.
She had a very strong backbone.
I feel like she was very flawed,but she was trying to recognize
(25:01):
her flaws through the wholebook.
And as soon as someone broughtit to her attention, there was
no like arguing oh, whatever.
that person's tripping orwhatever.
she immediately was like, ohshit, that is true.
Let me go and fix that.
She apologized.
To Piper, she apologized toYusef and you could see that she
was still punishing herself forsomething that like wasn't
(25:22):
really her fault.
She also had been through a lotand was still focusing on
improving her character, evenwith going through addiction and
this like huge debilitatinganxiety about the bedbugs.
So, uh, yeah, I felt like shewas a really, really strong
character
Joi (25:39):
I don't know.
I just, I, I couldn't get withMarigold at all.
Like I understand havinganxiety.
I understand you went through alot of different things, but she
was extremely harsh to Piper allthe time.
Even if she did rememberwhatever she said to Piper when
she, overdosed.
But it's just like you're 17talking to a 10 year old, you
(26:02):
know, and you wanna fight a 10year old.
I understand you were scared,but that's real messed up.
Bring it to your parents.
You know what I mean?
the way that she handled theissues with Piper was
ridiculous, I feel like.
And, I don't think.
You guys are giving a lot ofleeway to Marigold.
I guess Jan, you're kind of coolwith Piper too, but it's just
like, Piper should get theempathy that we gave to
(26:25):
Marigold.
'cause she's still a kid andshe's been through her own
traumas as well.
And then for Piper too, she'sgoing into a whole new family.
honestly a new culture, youknow, and the only thing she
knows for sure is her dad.
And they've moved twice sincethey, the dad met the mom.
You know, so it's just like ifanything, as the oldest, you
(26:49):
should be like reaching out andthis is what the mom and dad
should been doing too.
Like fostering a relationshipbetween their kids, you know?
Piper is still a child.
And even like when you thinkPiper is possessed, I'm glad
that Marigo went back to go gether when they were trying to get
out the house at the time whenthey thought they were like
under attack with the voice andeverything.
But I don't know, like I feellike Marigo was way too harsh
(27:12):
with Piper to be 17 and forPiper to be 10.
Jann (27:16):
I agree.
I feel like that was my, herleast favorite quality is like
how harsh she was with Piper,which is why I kind of liked how
the booked in with them, likereconciling and saying they need
to do better.
Like both of them.
I felt like that was like aredeeming point for both
characters.
Jax (27:31):
If like with Piper's situation, if that was an actual
child, I would give more leewaythan Piper in the book.
And that's mostly just because,and I get that because it's a
book you can only ever get theone perspective.
But there was just nothingreally provided for me
personally to come around onPiper as a character.
(27:53):
Everything that was presented ofPiper until the last 20 pages.
It was all an antagonistic.
It was all there to just makeher look worse and worse.
And there were just, was nothingthere for me to latch onto to
Jann (28:08):
I don't know if I would agree with that.
'cause they talked about how shelike didn't have any friends and
how the trauma with hergrandmother that came up before
the end and they talked abouther moving, like being displaced
twice when they met.
Like all that came up before theend.
Jax (28:21):
I feel like that's just Marks that go against Raquel and
Alec just because they treat thekids like they're cats, how you
just kind of plug and go.
They just expect them to sort itall out without any sort of
help.
And I feel like that'sdefinitely an aspect of that
whole flawed unit they had goingon.
Joi (28:42):
But I wouldn't blame Piper for it.
I wouldn't blame the baby of thewhole family about the whole
family's issues.
Jann (28:49):
If anything, I would say like seeing how awful they were
at parents and how bad they wereat discipline and be in a united
front, even with the kids, wouldexplain even more why she was
the way she was, like the wayAlec reacted, anytime she
complained about something, Iblamed him for her behavior way
more than I blamed her.
Jax (29:10):
Right?
Because Alec always, it didn'teven matter what it was.
He always would just side withher.
He doesn't even seek details oranything.
That just wasn't
Joi (29:17):
It was reinforced and she weaponized that every time.
Jax (29:21):
Right.
Joi (29:22):
like when she said, dad, Mari's trying to steal my
speakers to sell it for drugs,and he actually believed her, or
something like that.
What?
Jax (29:34):
I totally get what you're getting at.
I just feel like even with thesituation thinking of it
realistically, this child isjust failing.
Stranger danger spectacularly tothe point that you're letting
strangers stay in your house andthreaten your family a real way.
Jann (29:52):
it really her failing stranger danger if she told
someone and no one's believingher?
Again?
I feel like that's the fault onher parents.
And I feel like in blackhouseholds they say all the
time, like they don't want youto have imaginary friends
because of shit like that.
That is a prime example of,okay, maybe you can have
imaginary friends, but let'sactually talk about it.
Let's not just turn the cheekand hope she gets over it, you
(30:14):
know?
Jax (30:14):
Right.
Joi (30:15):
I feel like for me, Piper was a little too old to have an
imaginary friend being 10.
So I would question it likeimmediately, like when would you
step in with Piper?
Just like you have an imaginaryfriend, what the hell are you
talking about?
Like you're a little too old tohave imaginary, Frank, tell me
more.
It's like there's different waysto kind of like figure out what
the hell she's talking about.
And you probably could get outof her like it's an actual
(30:37):
person.
Or even if it's like somethinglike she had Ms.
Sugar's necklace or somethinglike that.
I'm like, that's a hauntedartifact.
Let's get the hell outta here.
Can we get off of Piper for asecond?
I wanna get back to Mari to howmuch I don't like her.
I even when I was 17, I knewgrowing weed in an abandoned
house was dumb as fuck.
Jann (30:59):
Especially in a place where they were like, seriously,
like heavily criminalizingweeded.
Like she just saw her friendErica get planted.
Like they planted weed on her itdidn't make a lot of sense.
Jax (31:10):
Yeah, that was that was just dumb.
100%.
Joi (31:13):
Like, it was just like, I'm just gonna grow my own weeded.
I'm just like, oh, you know,obviously people think about
that, like whatever, I'm justgonna grow it.
But you don't actually followthrough with that shit, and on
top of that, you black.
Like even when you live inColorado, California or
whatever, black people still getarrested for weeded.
Last thing you wanna do is endup growing it.
I thought that was soridiculous.
And every other sentence in thisbook was, man, I just need some
(31:36):
weeded, man.
I just need it, man.
I just need that.
I'm like, why don't you talk toyour mom about your anxiety and
see if she can take you to adoctor.
You know what I mean?
Jann (31:44):
She said that she was on some like kind of medication for
her anxiety and they justcompletely pulled her off of it
and pulled her away from herguru and like her therapist that
she was talking to and didn'treplace them.
And I was like, how did youthink that was going to work?
Like you move, if your kid hasthis much anxiety that she's
having episodes, and you saw theepisode, it was very intense.
(32:05):
I'm not gonna judge her fortalking about weeded every
second, just because I've neverhad, I have anxiety and I know
how like crippling anxiety canbe.
And I've never experiencedsomething so intense as she has
experienced.
Like, that episode killed me.
He's telling you it's coffeegrounds and you're not even
hearing him.
He had to cause someone to calmme down.
(32:27):
Down.
And even then sitting outsidenaked in winter, with your mom
and your brother trying to getyou to breathe, it took 45
minutes for them both to get youto just come into the house.
Jax (32:39):
And that's
Jann (32:40):
That's crazy to me.
Huh?
Joi (32:42):
Yeah,
Jax (32:42):
I said that was Ohio.
Winner too.
Jann (32:45):
Yeah, like I, I have never experienced something that
intense before.
It actually made me tear up tosee her like that.
That's intense.
Like that's debilitating.
So yeah, I can't blame her forwanting like to take the edge
off.
Joi (32:56):
that's a failure on the mom too.
your daughter had an overdose,you moved her.
She has anxiety.
This is all the things you know.
Why did you never check in withher?
Why'd you never say, Hey, how'sschool going?
Hey, how have you been feelingwith the new move and
everything?
Like she never did any of thatand she sucked.
Jax (33:12):
yeah, there was a lot of options.
Instead of just forcing her togo coat Turkey and expecting
that to work out, That wasabsolutely a massive failure on
Raquel's part.
Jann (33:22):
Or even the reason she had anxiety, it was not just the
bedbugs, it's the fact that shehad bedbugs and she was telling
people, and she said for a year,they didn't believe her.
You know how, like
Jax (33:33):
Yeah,
Jann (33:33):
how you told everybody, your mom, your dad, they didn't
believe you, they took you toprofessionals and they didn't
believe you.
And then after they still actlike it's your problem.
Like why are you still scared ofthese bedbugs?
Because now it's not even aboutthe bedbugs, it's the fact that
it's something's wrong with me.
I know.
No one's gonna believe me.
Joi (33:52):
It's been years.
It was years.
She lived with bedbugs, years.
She lived with them.
They took her to a dermatologistlike, what's going on with her
skin?
I told you it's bedbugs, youknow?
Jann (34:03):
And I'm like, no, no, it's probably this.
No.
Jax (34:06):
I can't imagine a year.
That's the, oh.
Joi (34:09):
Yeah.
Jax (34:11):
Like I can totally imagine exactly how she feels.
'cause I'm sure I'd panic thatway too, honestly.
Joi (34:16):
She had two, run-ins with the bedbugs.
And both times she ended upnaked on the porch.
I'm like, why didn't you takeher to someone in either one of
those times?
'cause remember she said she ranhome from when she was helping
clean up a, a, uh, the highwayor something.
It was a mattress, and she ranhome taking off her clothes.
Nothing from that.
Jann (34:33):
tell her mom about that.
Jax (34:35):
Yeah.
Jann (34:36):
Sammy knew about her running home naked, but I don't
think she told the mom, or Sammydidn't tell the mom about that.
So
Joi (34:43):
How would you feel being the friend on Skype and getting
those creepy ass Skype calls?
You know how fast I would turnmy computer off?
You can't keep calling me,bitch.
I would log off a Skypeuninstall it.
Jann (34:59):
it was FaceTime?
Joi (35:01):
Was it FaceTime?
Jann (35:03):
Yeah.
Joi (35:04):
Oh, that's even worse because you can't uninstall
FaceTime, I don't think on youriPhone.
Jann (35:11):
Yeah.
Joi (35:11):
I've been so scared.
And every time she calls yousomeone walking around behind
her too.
Nah, girl.
Jann (35:18):
Jackson, you said you guessed the plot when you saw
the tooth, or the plot twist,joy, did you guess at all what
was gonna happen?
Joi (35:25):
No, I thought it was a ghost tooth.
Jann (35:29):
I thought Alex was possessed, or Alec, whatever his
name was.
which brings me to the narrator.
I liked her a lot, but at acertain point, like it was so
scary that I didn't want hertalking.
So I finished reading the bookbecause like I would hear her
talk and then something wouldhappen in the house where I have
to like hurry up and find thepause so I could listen.
(35:52):
And I was like, enough, I needyou to shut up.
I'm just gonna read it.
Joi (35:57):
probably why it wasn't that scary for me either.
'cause I was playing on myswitch too, while I was
listening to it, just laying inbed, listening to it and playing
my game.
Like what happened?
Uh, two.
Ghost tooth, you know, ithappens.
Jann (36:08):
why you can't do the recap.
Maybe you should pay a littlebit more attention.
Jax (36:22):
It's okay, joy.
I can't multitask either.
I just read it
Jann (36:25):
Like I said, I was in such a state of fright when that hand
popped out of there.
I thought it was a gr that itdidn't even click to me that
they were real people until thegunshots.
And I was like, why would aghost be afraid of a gun?
Joi (36:38):
Well, if you watch Supernatural, they fill their
shotguns up with salt and theyshoot ghosts that way.
You can just double barrel it.
One can be salt and one can be abullet.
Jax (36:50):
But yeah, I'm surprised that neither of you guys guessed
the, twist.
Just'cause there's been big newsstories where they have somebody
living in their house and theynever realized it, or it's been
done in scary stories even.
did you see that?
When somebody found like the,entrance behind their mirror in
their apartment.
Joi (37:07):
led to another apartment.
Jax (37:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Stuff like that.
That happens a lot.
So I was like, oh, okay.
There, gotta be somebody in thebasement.
Joi (37:17):
Yeah, that's true.
That, I mean, it does happen andit is scary when it does happen.
I just didn't see, because Ithought that Piper was
possessed.
I thought that girl's gone.
Jax (37:26):
Like, I, like I knew about this thing.
I, I knew about this being athing, but I still believe she
would possess like, what?
No, no person would actually actthat way.
Joi (37:37):
And that's the thing too, since she wasn't possessed.
Okay.
I've been a nanny for years.
The girl that I watched was 10and she had a little brother who
was like two or three.
Once I, if I had him out thehouse already, after all this
spooky stuff went on, if Ithought she was possessed or
not, I already decided like Marygo to go and get her to flee the
(37:58):
house.
Why didn't she just go up thestairs and grab her little ass
and carry her out?
Where I pipe?
Pipe come Piper.
Jann (38:11):
Well, she did like, I feel like she was thinking like, if I
can get her to come down thestairs, I don't have to.
But after she turned around, shedid run up to go and grab her.
Like, I'm not playing this gameanymore with you.
I'm about to drag you out.
And she got hit in the face forit.
would've been hit in the facejust like she was like,
Joi (38:34):
Probably I would've been thrown down the stairs and broke
my neck.
I would've been knocked out'cause I would've been grabbing
them kids.
I couldn't have left the kids.
You would've to kill me thatday.
I'm like, listen, ghosts are notlike I'm getting this baby.
So I probably would've died inthis story.
Honestly, I don't think Iwould've made it.
Jann (38:57):
I would've made it because I would've left the first day.
Jax (39:05):
I
Jann (39:05):
There's that, and I feel like when my fight or flight
kicks in, if I don't feel like Ican get away, fight is so much
like my first response.
So I would've known that theyweren't ghosts real early on.
Joi (39:18):
Especially with that guy standing in your room.
You would've been fighting him.
I would've been fighting him.
Like, who the fuck?
Jax (39:25):
if I was in the situation, the story would've ended a lot
earlier just'cause when theyfirst moved in some, oh, we're
not allowed in the basement.
Why?
What's down there?
Why can't I go into my ownbasement?
Why did nobody question
Jann (39:38):
Watson.
Like I don't understand, like hesaid that if they go down there
they'll be sued.
But it didn't say he signed an Nd a.
Like why didn't he just saythat?
Like why was he so tightlipped?
If you're concerned enough towait on their street in the
truck, so many nights, why wouldyou never say Hey, have you guys
noticed this?
I've noticed this.
Have you guys, like there was noreason why he couldn't discuss
(40:00):
it.
Like that was
Joi (40:02):
Hey, I worked in your
Jann (40:03):
Especially since there are kids involved,
Joi (40:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (40:06):
you know?
Like he saw all those kids thatwere in that house
Jax (40:10):
Honestly, I feel like a lot of the horror is made by tons
and tons of really stupidfailings from the adult
characters And even with thewhole mob thing.
So Yusef was talking about howthey felt terrible about all
this stuff happening and thenlike they don't do Halloween
(40:31):
because of the fires andwhatnot.
But then they were just so happyto just dive right into it.
Oh, hey, look at this, the tarpsand whatnot that are here,
that's not suspicious because Iget it, it's a reference to the
whole thing that was happeningbefore.
But you know, in real lifepeople are like, that's pretty
suspicious.
You know?
Joi (40:50):
The way that they up, it just didn't make
Jax (40:53):
yeah, it didn't make sense at all.
Joi (40:56):
especially, it's like, oh, this little white girl missing,
and black people would be like,yeah, that sucks.
They wouldn't go like a wholemob.
Jann (41:07):
no, I think you have to consider that everybody in that
town, was trying to protectthemselves because they burned
down that house with Ms.
Sugar and her son in it.
So more than like them worryingabout the little girl, they had
heard that they were still aliveand they were concerned that the
story would've gotten out andthey wanted to protect
themselves from that.
That's why she, he was saying,don't tell anybody I told you
(41:30):
about Ms.
Sugar.
You know, Yusef, when he toldher, because his pop pop
would've been implicated in thatburning and they thought they
boarded up the house so fast andnever went back because they
thought the evidence was stillin that house, like the burned
bodies.
That's how any of this story wasable to happen is because they
were trying to bury a secret.
Joi (41:50):
it's
Jax (41:50):
what?
That's a, that's, I didn'tinterpret it that way.
I was always thinking that Yusefwas saying, don't tell anybody I
told you about this.
Or not even wanting to tell herabout that house being
potentially haunted.
Just'cause she was alreadyfreaking out so he wouldn't want
to, you know, add onto it bysaying, oh yeah, there's also a
ghost in there.
Just'cause the whole hack thingseemed like it was dragged out.
Joi (42:14):
No, I just feel like you can't whip up black people to be
a lynch mob.
Like, we don't do that.
You know what I mean?
I don't, I don't think that thatwould've worked that way the
first time when they killed,well, they supposedly killed the
son and then burnt down thehouse.
I don't think it would'vehappened this time either when
the girl went missing, even ifthey're trying to cover their
tracks, I feel like they'd bemore like, Hey, you know, we did
(42:38):
this a while ago.
Maybe we should go into theirhouse and check out what's going
on, see if we can find anybodies or anything like that.
You know what I mean?
It's just like, it's one ofthose things where I don't
believe that they would justlike leave it there.
Like if they did do a crime likethat and then they, people like,
you know, the city wants tostart reinventing, like the
neighborhood, they wouldn't wentin there long before they moved
to that house.
(42:59):
And I, I, I just, I just don'tsee black people doing lynch
mobs.
They call'em lynch mobs'causewhite people did it to black
folks.
I don't, I don't see them
Jann (43:07):
nobody was lynching anyone.
Joi (43:09):
But I mean, they basically did, if they found that boy,
yeah.
Beat him up and burnt him in ahouse.
That's a lynching.
Jann (43:16):
they burned him in a house.
Jax (43:19):
They thought that the, that the son and Ms.
Sugar were burnt to death in thehouse.
Joi (43:24):
because she went in to help him after they beat him up and
left him in the house and it wason fire all of a sudden.
Jax (43:31):
Like they definitely
Jann (43:32):
you guys are like really misinterpreting this.
So what happened was, They foundthe little boy dead in one of
the houses because he got lostand was in one of the abandoned
houses and got murdered bysomeone who was strung out on
drugs.
And then the white people wereburning down the houses and it
(43:53):
spread to the black people'shomes.
They never caught who wasburning the houses initially.
And that's when they weretalking about the mob with the
roussos and things like the onlytime the black people were
burning the homes was at theend.
And that's because when theytried to find John, John, who
they said was touching kids,they burned that house and she
(44:17):
ran in and it got burned downthe house next door pretty much
Joi (44:24):
so
Jann (44:24):
like the only time they were actually writing them.
Yeah, exactly.
The only time they were actuallywriting was at the end, and I
think that was to protect thesecret.
Joi (44:35):
but why would they be protecting you if they didn't
actually do any harm to John?
John?
It's just like, we just let hishouse burn like everyone else
did you know?
Jax (44:42):
yeah.
Joi (44:45):
I, I don't know, like if that was the case, I still don't
understand why they would do allthat.
Just to cover up that theyalready, we all already know we
let him burn in the house andhis mom, like, that didn't make
sense
Jax (44:56):
like I
Joi (44:57):
they didn't already try to attack him and leave him for
dead, if there was evidence,'cause if there was evidence of
them doing something fine, Icould kind of see that.
But if it was the white peopledoing it in the first place,
they had no hands on it.
They're just like, oh, he'salive.
You know?
Jax (45:11):
feel like from either perspective we might have just
stumbled onto a pothole ofsorts.
Joi (45:17):
Yeah.
I guess I'm just like, I, I justdidn't care for it.
I, it wasn't believable.
Jax (45:23):
Yeah,
Joi (45:23):
It's just, I, I didn't care for it, the
Jann (45:26):
But that actually happened though, like in the like riots
for black co Lives matter.
Jax (45:30):
yeah.
But people were calling outthat,
Jann (45:33):
sitting around waiting for people to break stuff because
they wanted to make the BlackLives Matter people to be
villains
Joi (45:42):
and that's the thing
Jann (45:43):
like that actually
Joi (45:43):
like, look, this is a new pallet that wasn't here 20
minutes ago.
Someone had to drop this off.
Right.
And obviously some people took'em, but like a lot of people
were calling out on Twitter,this wasn't here.
Is that gonna go, like, whodropped these off here
Jann (45:55):
Well, the same thing happened in the book.
They said there were a lot ofpeople in the crowd that were
still standing around the housewhen other people went off to
riot trying to figure out howthey can stop everybody.
There's just not, I, you can'tthink of it as, okay, they use
the black people.
Like black people cannot begeneralized.
You can't just say, black peoplewon't do this.
(46:16):
Like everyone is an individual,you know, like, and I'm not
saying you can't say like themajority of black people or the
majority of white people.
Sure.
But you cannot just say anexception.
Every black person isn't goingto do this.
People on their own areindividuals.
And some people had had enough,like what if you were in Yussef
shoes where your whole familywas freaking gone?
(46:37):
Like maybe you're just oppressedenough and like on the edge
enough.
Like you never know what peopleare going through, where they're
like, okay, this is the lastfricking straw I can't take
anymore.
You know?
And they seem to have put themin the exact right position to
wanna like mess stuff up.
Joi (46:52):
It is just, I guess it was the way it was written, it just
didn't seem very believable forblack people to do any kind of
like mobbing like that at all.
It just didn't add up for me andit took me out of the story.
I'm just like, I don't believethat we would do something like
that.
So I don't know.
I didn't care for it.
And that's probably why.
Is that still at a two and ahalf star for me?
(47:15):
I don't understand the communityreacting in the ways that they
react in this book.
That's basically my thing.
I have never seen a community ofblack folks, especially the ones
who's like in a community likethat, so they're obviously close
knit to react in the ways thatthey were reacting in this book.
And I didn't care for it.
It wasn't believable to me.
It felt like it was just likewritten there to have stakes
(47:36):
there to like a sense of danger,but it was almost like black
people were used as likemultiple times in this book as
just like a mob, like abrainless mob that could just be
like influenced to do whoever isat the heads bidding.
You know what I mean?
And it sucked and I didn't carefor it and took me right out of
(47:56):
the story.
Jann (47:57):
I think that's definitely your own interpretation.
I agree with you.
To a point, like at the end Ifelt like it was a little bit
too neatly wrapped up, I do feellike there were people in the
community that were friendly andI feel like there were people in
the community that were notfriendly.
And I do feel like that'srealistic.
Joi (48:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jax (48:13):
I feel like in both of those situations, I would've
been more forgiving of it,seeming so sloppy, like what we
were just talking about.
If,'cause you're sayingeverything was neatly wrapped
up, but like I feel like thebook has no damn resolution.
It just stops.
There's so much stuff thatshould have been tied up better
(48:35):
so that you can just see whatthe full situation they're
dealing with is.
And instead you're literally inthe middle of a big action and
then the book ends like, what amI supposed to do with this?
Jann (48:48):
I enjoyed it, especially considering the time that she
wrote it.
It was like right in 2021 and itwas like right where Black Lives
Matter, was in the thick of it.
You know, we were like goingthrough a bunch of stuff as a
people and it still unresolved.
Like you want to believe thatshe went on and went against the
Sterling Company and resolved alot of things.
but it's still unwritten, likeit still has to happen.
(49:11):
Um, I will say I was very upsetthat I didn't get a real
resolution with Erica beingimprisoned.
Joi (49:16):
Yeah.
Jax (49:17):
Yeah.
Jann (49:17):
But as far as like her and what she was going to do to help
save the community, the factthat she called it our
community, like she finally hada place to belong and somewhere
she felt like she had a stake inand can do some good was nice.
I thought it was interestingthat she said that she wasn't
gonna be able to run for awhile, and it seemed like she
was focusing her energyelsewhere.
(49:38):
I felt like going through thisnew trauma with Piper kind of
gave her some kind of resolve toher bedbugs issues where she
said it was still in the back ofher mind, but like it wasn't as
pressing as making sure Piperwas okay and that she was just
so exhausted from everything.
Like I felt like it was the cuspof change for a lot of things.
And change was a huge theme inthis book where I was saying
(50:02):
that Affirmation with her allthe time that she was saying
like, change is good, change isnecessary.
And then to have Yusef saychange isn't always good, which
like made her say, wait, holdon.
I feel personally attacked andlike just like thinking about
the theme of change and if it'sgood and if it's bad and what
needs to change, what shouldn'tchange tradition versus like the
future.
(50:23):
A lot of that was a huge themeand I felt like they ended or
she ended it right where itended because again, we are on
the cusp of a change for a lotof things.
Her anxiety, her track career,her belonging in a community,
obviously if they're going toactually wipe out this
neighborhood like they thoughtor not, like a lot of that is
left up to interpretation.
Jax (50:44):
I hear what you're saying, but I feel like that wasn't the
best position to leave it in, toleave it up to interpretation
because so much of the book.
Is based on dealing with all ofthat stuff, and now that you've
finally managed to get it to apoint where you can finally
start seeing the changes that'sbeen built up this whole time,
(51:06):
it's over.
Jann (51:08):
Yeah, but what was she actually trying to convey in the
book?
Was it the resolution to allthese issues, or was it
marigold's mindset?
These ghosts that she wasrunning from seemed to be her
own anxiety, her own like issueswith her past, her own issues
with not belonging.
And I felt like she was on theverge of understanding all of
that and she was getting throughit.
(51:28):
And the fact that like theseghosts that the neighborhood was
dealing with was not actuallyghosts.
She was putting a name and faceto all of those things that they
were.
Dealing with, you know, likewhen she was figuring out the
research and like following themoney, like a lot of things that
were just vague and didn't havea face to put to the name was
(51:50):
named.
You know, a lot of these thingsthat seemed to be like a
haunting, turned out to be real,like problems in the community
and like with her.
So I felt like that was a goodplace in my opinion, to stop.
Jax (52:03):
I'm just bothered that they never really got to the end with
people living in her house.
Like I understand symbolism, butOh my god.
You know?
Joi (52:14):
My only thing is that I wish it would've wrapped up at
least her mental health stuff,like showing her going to a
doctor or something.
I understand where you saidwhere it was, you know, to leave
for us to interpret as we will,like she will be making these
changes.
But I just wanted to see alittle bit more, you know, just
like maybe like a little downthe road, like they moved out
the house or they stayed in thehouse.
(52:36):
The other houses were gettingrenovated.
She was going to a therapist.
She didn't feel like she neededweeded or they got her medical
weed or actual anxiety mess thatactually worked for her.
Any of those things show herrelationship with Piper.
Follow up with what happenedwith Ms.
Sugar in the hospital.
Like any of these things, seewhat happened with Mrs.
Sterling.
You know, if John John lived,yeah.
(52:58):
It was just so many things thatwere left.
It was just like, I'm just like,it is too abrupt.
When it ended, I was waiting forthe next.
Yeah, I was, I, I was just,yeah.
Use it.
Yeah.
So I was just waiting foranother chapter to start.
When I was listening to it inAudible, I was just like, what's
the next chapter?
And then it was just credits.
And I was like, that sucks.
You know?
(53:19):
I feel like I probably would'vegave this book a little higher
of a rating if it had any kindof wrap up.
Any of'em, you know, the parentsbarely got into the house after
she found Piper, you know, andit ended.
I just, I thought it was toomuch that was
Jann (53:34):
The parents actually didn't get home.
Joi (53:37):
Oh, yeah, there was on the couch.
Yeah.
So it's just like,
Jann (53:39):
they were on the couch at Yusef's house, not their house.
I don't know.
I liked it.
Like how did you feel about theending of the Giver or not?
Not the giver.
I think it was the giver.
Jax (53:49):
I don't even remember that book.
Really?
Was
Jann (53:52):
Oh, any cliffhanger.
Do you generally enjoycliffhangers?
Joi (53:56):
I like cliffhangers when it makes sense to have a
cliffhanger.
Like if it's just like onecertain thing that's happening,
but not a whole wrap up whereit's like everything is leading
to this point and you justdidn't write about it.
You know,
Jax (54:08):
like if in the Phantom they end it right when they um, like
right when they just leave the,um,
Jann (54:17):
The Opera House?
Jax (54:18):
Thank you
Jann (54:19):
Yep.
So I feel like it's.
Jax (54:21):
other stuff happened.
Sorry, go on.
Jann (54:24):
Yeah, I definitely think it's a matter of preference.
Like I generally do likecliffhangers and I don't
necessarily see like abruptcliffhangers like this a lot,
like ACEs spades.
I feel like they kind of wrapthat up at the end like a couple
years after.
And I felt like it took awayfrom the story
Joi (54:39):
I didn't,
Jann (54:40):
because it didn't make any sense.
You know, like this really leadsyou to like, how would you like
it to end?
Like you say you want her to gethelp, but what if she doesn't
get help?
You say you wanna see the, howtheir house was renovated.
What if they actually destroyedthe neighborhood?
You know, like a lot of thatstuff is unwritten and I feel
like it makes sense for the timethat we're in right now because
it correlates with so manythings happening.
(55:01):
So many things happening in thereal world.
Joi (55:03):
My, my thing is I would've liked it if they parents came
home or if came to Yus, pickedthem up and they drove out of
the city with the, like, burningin the background.
That's one thing.
'cause it's, it'll be acliffhanger of like what's going
to happen.
But it can also interpret it asthey're a family unit and they
made it out alive and that'swhat matters.
(55:25):
You know what I mean?
They figured these things outand they left the issue, like it
was just, I don't know, like I
Jann (55:31):
you get that with Alec coming around and defending her
and then her and Piper, who wasthe biggest divide in the family
making up and saying they needto do better.
I feel like it would've been alittle cheesy actually, if
everyone came together at theend, especially since the dog
and the brother were still inthe hospital away from the like
Cedarville and like they didn'thave service because they
(55:52):
purposely cut off service.
They made it like this veryinsidious thing where like
nobody has service because theydidn't want them reaching out
and getting help.
They cut off access to the cityso they couldn't have driven
away from the city.
You know, like the police werebarricading people in and not
letting people like out, likeall of the, like it would've
been cheesy to have them drivingaway with the city.
(56:12):
Like, if that's all you need it,I feel like that wouldn't have
worked with the story.
Jax (56:16):
Yeah, I wouldn't have liked that with the ending.
Joi (56:19):
I dunno.
Jann (56:20):
But either way I do feel like it's a matter of like
preference and I feel likethat's how it always is with
cliffhangers.
Even like really well-knownworks of art.
Some people hate a cliffhanger,period.
So it, it is a matter ofpreference.
I personally enjoyed it.
I can see that you two did not,even though you don't really
agree on what the ending shouldhave been.
I feel like we're just kind ofscattered with that and that's
(56:41):
fine.
I feel like that's kind of whatcliffhangers do,
Joi (56:44):
And that's the point
Jann (56:45):
but I do wanna hear from other people.
Yeah, exactly.
I do wanna hear from otherpeople, like if you liked the
ending, if you liked the book,if you thought it was scary, so
joy, do you wanna tell'em wherethey can find us and write in
about their opinion of the book?
Joi (56:58):
Yeah.
You can find us at Black GirlReads podcast, on TikTok and
Instagram and on Twitter it isBlack Girl Reads pod.
the black is spelled b l k onall of them.
Jann (57:11):
Jackson, where can the audience find you if they would
like to reach out?
Jax (57:15):
I can be found on basically, Every social media
platform at 100 pugs, that's thenumber 100 pugs, no space.
Jann (57:26):
All right, well then I'm just gonna go ahead and announce
the next book, which is a,another horror book called Burn
Down.
Rise Up.
So next week we'll be readingthis one.
The synopsis goes Mysteriousdisappearances and urban legend
rumored to be responsible, andone group of teens determined to
save their city at any cost forover a year.
(57:47):
The Bronx has been played bysudden disappearances that no
one can explain.
16 year old Raquel does her bestto ignore it.
After all, the police only lookfor the white kids.
But when her crushed Charlie'scousin goes missing.
Raquel starts to pay attention,especially when her own mom
comes down with a mysteriousillness that seems linked to the
(58:07):
disappearances.
Raquel and Charlize team up toinvestigate, but they soon
discover that everything is tiedto a terrifying urban legend
called the Echo Game.
The game is rumored to trappeople in a sinister world
underneath the city, and therules are based on a
particularly dark chapter in NewYork's past.
And if the friends want to savetheir home and everyone they
(58:27):
love, they'll have to play thegame and destroy the evil at its
heart or die trying.
Joi (58:33):
That sounds
Jax (58:34):
Is her crush Charlize or Charlize's cousin.
Jann (58:38):
Charlie's
Jax (58:39):
Okay.
Jann (58:41):
Yeah,
Joi (58:42):
It sounds spooky.
I like the idea
Jann (58:45):
it sounds fun.
Yeah, I like this one.
it's, no, it doesn't seem likethere's any possession involved,
so I was afraid to read a coupleof these books this month, but
I'm just excited for this one.
So, yeah,
Joi (58:59):
All right.
Jax (59:00):
So when are you doing the Goosebumps chapter?
When are you doing the episodeon Goosebumps.
Jann (59:08):
I like goosebumps.
I don't know why everyone treats'em like, they're like not works
of art just because they're madefor kids.
Anyway,
Jax (59:15):
love goosebumps.
I just know
Jann (59:17):
so did you guys see that?
Like r l Stein rated this booklike amazing.
Jax (59:21):
I did see that.
Jann (59:23):
He is actually on the cover of the book Giving a Good
Review.
I thought that was awesome forher, especially since was, it
was her first horror novel she'sever written,
Jax (59:32):
That's super cool.
Jann (59:34):
and I saw that there's a trailer for a movie for this,
but I'm not sure if it was fanmade or not, and I could not
find any evidence of a realmovie.
So I don't think it is,
Joi (59:42):
I feel like Ro Stein's books, the Goosebumps.
There's some scarier ones thanthis one, like Slappy.
The plant dad or whatever, don'tgo in the basement.
That freaked me out more thanthis story, for sure.
Jax (59:56):
I can't think of any Goosebumps books that actually
scared me.
It's just that one dog in thetheme.
But those are great books.
Jann (01:00:05):
Yeah.
All right.
Well it was great talking withyou guys.
Jax, thanks so much for joiningus this week.
Thanks everyone.
Bye.
Joi (01:00:13):
Bye
Jax (01:00:14):
Bye.
Marigold is running from ghosts, the phantoms of her old
life.
Keep haunting her, but a movewith her newly blended family
from a small California beachtown to the embattled Midwestern
city of Cedarville, might be thefirst start she needs.
Her mom has accepted a new jobwith a sterling foundation that
comes with a free house, onethat Mary now has to share with
her.
Ready.
10 year old stepsister Piper,the renovated picture.
(00:23):
Perfect home on Maple Shree.
Sitting in between twodilapidated houses surrounded by
weary neighbors, has itssecrets.
That's only half the problem.
Household items vanish.
Doors open on their own lightsturn off shadows, walk past
rooms.
Voices can be heard in thewalls, and there's a foul smell
seeping through the vents.
Only Mary seems to notice worse.
(00:45):
Piper keeps talking about afriend who wants Mary gone, but
running from ghosts.
It's just the metaphor, right?
As the house closes in, Marylearns that the danger isn't
limited to Maple Street.
Cedarville has the secrets too,and secrets always find their
way through the cracks.
Okay, welcome to the podcasteverybody.
(01:07):
So White Smoke by Tiffany D.
Jackson.
Joi (01:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (01:13):
How do you guys like it?
Joy.
You wanna go first?
Joi (01:17):
Ah, I'll give it a two and a half.
Yeah.
If you told me it was the sameauthor from last week, I, I'm
surprised.
Did not enjoy it too much.
Jann (01:28):
Okay.
Okay, Jackson?
Um,
Jax (01:32):
I'd say like 3.5.
Jann (01:36):
3.5.
All right.
All right.
I would give it a five.
Jax (01:44):
Yeah.
Jann (01:44):
Honestly, I've been going back and forth if I wanna do
like a four and a five star.
So I'll give it a four and ahalf stars, four and a half, and
you'll have to excuse me, Ijumped right into the ratings
and I forgot to dointroductions.
Joi (01:56):
Yeah.
Jann (01:57):
So I'm your host, Jan,
Joi (01:59):
And I'm your cohost, joy.
Woo.
Jann (02:03):
and we have a guest around this time.
You wanna introduce yourself.
Jax (02:06):
I'm Jackson, the coolest guy on this whole podcast ever.
Jann (02:10):
Okay,
Joi (02:11):
this podcast.
Jann (02:13):
that's very true.
All right, so we're going withtwo and a half.
Three and a half.
Four and a half.
All right.
So I'm just gonna give ourspoiler warning now, because if
you haven't read it and youdon't wanna know what's going
on, you should log off now.
all right.
So who wants to go first andexplain their rating?
Joi (02:35):
I didn't like it, it has spooky moments.
but that's all I can really sayabout it.
I didn't care for Marigold,didn't care for, Piper didn't,
well, Sammy was kind of cute,but it's just like, I didn't
find the main character Marigolda likable character, you know,
at all.
she just seemed very like, um,annoying throughout
Jann (02:58):
you have a role of rating because you didn't find any,
like, connection with thecharacters.
Joi (03:02):
None.
Yeah.
Jann (03:04):
Okay.
Jax, a quick overall explanationof your rating.
Jax (03:10):
So I feel like mine is actually the opposite that.
The ratings higher because I didlike the characters.
I didn't like marigold it.
It's not that she was like,well, she was kind of like
standoffish the whole time andit did start getting annoying.
But it's more that Sammy andYusuf were just so good that
they saved the book on top ofthat, like they had interesting
(03:32):
themes, but personally I feellike they didn't dig into it
enough to really justify beingthere and to be an aspect of the
story as well as I just haveissues with the ending
Jann (03:45):
Okay.
Jax (03:45):
and it was really
Jann (03:46):
All right.
Joi (03:47):
It stopped.
It was abrupt, right?
An abrupt
Jax (03:49):
It was, I hated that.
Jann (03:51):
I think it's interesting and you both said you didn't
like Marigold because I feellike I enjoyed the main
character and I actually likethe ride.
I know have said multiple timeson this podcast that I don't
read scary books.
This was just scary enough forme.
Like it was scary enough to becreepy and I like was scared
legitimately like could not getout of bed when I was reading
(04:13):
it, but I actually read it atnight, like under the blankets
and it was a fun time and itwasn't so scary that like I
couldn't sleep.
So that was nice.
It was just the right amount.
Joi (04:24):
it was not scary.
Jan, like, I feel like our
Jann (04:27):
All right, joy, let's get, let's hear your recap.
I don't wanna hear about how youthought it wasn't that scary.
Let's hear the.
Joi (04:36):
so white smoke.
So we have Marigold and Sammy,brother and sister.
Um, I think Sammy's like, howold was he?
Like eight, nine.
He's a youngin.
Jax (04:46):
well, he was in middle school, wasn't he?
Jann (04:48):
Yeah, he was like 13
Joi (04:50):
Really?
Jann (04:50):
because Piper was 10.
Jax (04:52):
Yeah.
Jann (04:53):
Joy, this is why you can't do recaps.
I would, I would expect you todo at least a little bit of
reviewing before you did therecap.
Joi (05:01):
Lemme tell you something.
The way that I pictured Sammy,he just seems so adorable.
Like, okay.
You know?
Um
Jann (05:08):
real quick?
Joi (05:09):
hmm.
Jann (05:10):
Piper was obviously the youngest, and I literally just
said her 10 year old sister inthe synopsis.
So you didn't even listen to thesynopsis if you thought he was
eight or nine.
Jax (05:20):
you clearly have an issue with the illiterate.
Let's, let's dig into that
Joi (05:25):
No, I was thinking, um, the little brother Antonio, the
little cousin from, um, uh,what's that one?
Uh, Maribel.
What's that?
What's that?
What's that?
Not Disney movie, Encanto.
That little boy, Antonio.
That's who I pictured this wholetime at Sammy.
Jann (05:43):
That was silly because he was a full blown middle
schooler.
Now continue.
Let's see what else you gotwrong.
Joi (05:52):
So Mary Gold and Sammy brother and sister, um, their
mom is Raquel.
They, um, they're moving awayfrom California with their new
stepdad, Alec and his daughterPiper.
Um, and it's because the mom,Raquel has a new opportunity
'cause she's a, um, a, a writeror an architect or something
(06:13):
like that.
Um, Yeah, she, so she got anopportunity to live in this
really nice free home,'cause ahistorical build or something
like that for free.
So they're all moving out there.
Um, apparently this is rightafter Marygold had like an
overdose.
Um, like I don't know what shetook.
(06:33):
I forgot what she took.
Um, but, uh,
Jann (06:36):
It was weed laced with fentanyl.
Joi (06:38):
yeah.
Jax (06:39):
it was fentanyl.
I don't know why I had ketaminein my head.
Joi (06:45):
Yeah, me either.
Uh, um, but basically, um,they're trying to get settled.
The house is spooky, ooky.
The movers don't wanna staythere very long after dark.
once they start going to schooland everything, things still are
kind of weird.
Piper, Mary, girl and Sammydon't really get along.
Um, Alec is.
Alec is clueless.
(07:05):
He's just a clueless white guybasically.
And always like taking up forhis daughter who's kind of a
bratt no matter what happens.
And um, Markel is just kind ofthere.
Um, Marigo, she meets Erica andYusef and Erica.
She smokes weeded and that'swhat she's been honing for since
(07:26):
she left California like anaddict.
Every two minutes she needs someweeded.
Um, she hasn't figured out whereto get it'cause apparently there
was this whole violation withthe city or whatever, outlawed
for a while.
Um, and she gets the idea tojust grow it in one of the
abandoned homes, near her house.
'cause her house is the only onethat's not abandoned, right on
this street, maple Street.
(07:49):
she's doing that and that's howshe met Yusef to get supplies
for her garden because herparents don't trust her with her
money or anything like thatafter she overdosed.
Um, and spooky things happen.
It turns out someone's living intheir house, two people, Ms.
Sugar and hi and her son, andthat's it.
(08:12):
That's how it cuts off at theend.
Jann (08:14):
What I don't understand that is not true.
What I don't understand aboutyour recaps joy is that you give
so much unnecessary detail thatI feel like you just get tired
of talking and skip to the end.
Like you never actually talkabout the plot of the book.
Like, what are you, why do youhave to give everybody's career
and ages that you always getwrong?
(08:36):
Like what?
Jax (08:37):
feel like I, I got people's astrology sign, but I don't know
anything about the city.
Jann (08:42):
Exactly like, but joy, what's the book about though?
Joi (08:45):
Listen.
Listen, it is my summary and Ido it the way I wanna do it.
Jax (08:51):
Well, yeah, we know it's your summary.
That's why it's wrong.
Jann (08:58):
All right, well, we kind of started talking about it, so
let's actually give a rating forhow scary you guys thought it
was since that's socontroversial.
Out of five stars,
Joi (09:07):
One.
Jann (09:08):
I think it was a solid three and a half stars, which I,
that's where I want my scary,and I'm very happy with that.
Jax (09:18):
I am, I'm going to go with Joy.
I'm also, I'm going to be givingit a one.
And that's partially why my,score for the book overall was
so low.
It was supposed to be a horrorstory.
And I, it's not even the sortthat like, oh, well if you think
about it's scary.
It was, like a, uh, campfirestory, if anything,
Jann (09:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Jax (09:41):
it was just quaint.
It wasn't scary at
Jann (09:44):
level scary.
That's fun.
Anything else is too scary.
Jax (09:48):
it's, that's fine.
When you're five.
Joi (10:06):
Yeah,
Jann (10:07):
just don't understand why it was necessary.
Jackson?
No.
Jax (10:09):
mean, it just wasn't even spooky for me personally.
Joi (10:14):
I feel like I've personally had spookier instances of ghost
encounters than this book.
Honestly.
I'm just like, that's nowherenear as bad as what I actually
live.
So I'm not really that scared.
Jann (10:24):
like the scariest part was
Joi (10:27):
Um, Piper, when they're trying to leave the house, like
when, um, this, like Sammy'svoice calling for a marigold and
he is like, I'm not, that's notme.
Get in the closet.
And then Piper's just likelooking at her down the, at the
bottom of the stairs and thenlike looks off and then walks
away.
I'm like, that bitch is haunted.
Yeah.
Jann (10:48):
Yeah, that was scary.
Well, it wasn't like her wasn'tas scary to me, but like them
listening to his voice was veryscary to me.
'cause I've had instances likethat
Jax (10:59):
That was definitely the, uh, peak in horror for this.
Joi (11:03):
No, That part was scary too.
But what else kind of like gaveme the Oggie Boogie was the part
when she was in the, in thekitchen at nighttime and the
door was open and then the musicstarted playing and everyone was
like, what's going on?
But the door was open and shewas like, I don't know if I
wanna move and make a run for itto go upstairs or what I wanna
do, you know?
Jann (11:23):
Looking back on it though, it seems like they accidentally
left the door open and someonestarted the music to distract
her so she wouldn't go down.
Joi (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (11:31):
Like that's what it seems like.
But that part wasn't that scaryfor me.
What freaks me out was thealarms.
I dunno why that freaked me outso much when it was like rapid
alarms going off and it waslike, I think it was the
psychological factors where theyhad her freaked out and checking
on the beds and then the bedbugsand having her freak out like
that.
(11:53):
That's, that scared the shit outof me.
Y'all go hate on this bug, but Ifelt like it was a nice little
haunted mansion, like from theDisney right moment where you're
scared but not terrified.
And I genuinely like that.
Joi (12:04):
Haunted mansion?
Ain't scary.
Jax (12:06):
is.
I don't get scared of thehaunted mansion.
Jann (12:10):
that's what
Joi (12:10):
No one does.
Jann (12:11):
spooky, but not terrifying.
like Halloween decorations.
You get you in the mood forspooky without scaring the
literal shit outta you.
Perfect.
Joi (12:22):
All
Jann (12:22):
That's what I want.
Jax (12:24):
Alright.
Jann (12:26):
I wish more horror novels were like, this is all I'm gonna
say.
Joi (12:31):
man.
If horror novels would likethis, I would never read them.
It wouldn't be scary at all.
Jax (12:37):
Like I don't mind that, like it basically jumped to
thriller.
That's why I expect from mosthorror, I just don't feel like
it did it so well.
Joi (12:46):
I don't know, like it just the way that it was going.
I didn't care for Mary girlconstantly feeding for weeded,
and I didn't
Jann (12:53):
Oh, well,
Joi (12:54):
Hmm.
Jann (12:55):
since you're talking about the characters again, how about
you just tell us your least andfavorite and
Joi (13:00):
I think my least favorite would probably be, Whoever the
mayor guy was, I don't know hisname.
He was a villain.
Jann (13:09):
Sterling.
Joi (13:10):
Yeah.
And then, my most favorite wouldprobably be, Sammy?
Yeah.
Sammy,
Jann (13:19):
Okay.
Joi (13:20):
what about
Jann (13:21):
mean self-explanatory as far as Sammy, he was an awesome
character.
Joi (13:25):
Yeah.
Self-explanatory for the villainass mayor.
Jann (13:30):
Yeah.
Jackson.
Jax (13:33):
My least favorite was Piper and my favorite.
I absolutely loved Yusef.
He was awesome.
Joi (13:41):
Why didn't you
Jann (13:42):
I disagree with both of those.
Jax (13:44):
Really?
Jann (13:45):
Like not in my top, like Piper is not in my bottom and
Yusef is not in my type.
But I'm curious.
I see your choices.
Jax (13:53):
So like I really did think about it.
I was like, okay, well maybethey were saying it's
themselves.
Piper is just a kid.
But even then
Jann (14:01):
She's 10.
Jax (14:01):
you'd have to be and 10, you'd have to be especially
stupid just have actual reallife people living in your house
that you are talking to whendealing with and threatening
your family.
And just not make anyone awareof this.
I just felt like even for a 10year old, for any person, she
(14:23):
was just being completely.
Unreasonable and there isunreasonable for children, but
we deal with children youngerthan 10 and they are more
reasonable in those situationsthan Piper was.
Jann (14:37):
Know.
I felt like she was tellingeverybody the whole time that
she was real, and no onebelieved her, and no one liked
her at that point either.
I just figured, she was like,well, this is my friend.
At this point.
I've alerted people and no one'slistening to me.
She's the only person listeningto me.
Jax (14:52):
I mean, I suppose, but like she knows her dad listens.
He listens to her over everybody
Jann (14:57):
told him.
And he kept saying, leave heralone.
She has an imaginary friend.
And he was like, yeah, it'sokay.
I know Miss Sugar.
Miss Sugar.
Like he made it seem like hebelieved her and just didn't
care.
Jax (15:09):
She could definitely do more than just say, oh, it's
real.
Like you could say, oh, it'sreal, this and this and this.
She's just choosing not to whenjust being fine with that person
creeping around the house.
Jann (15:22):
have said something too.
And he was a grown ass man.
Like
Jax (15:26):
Wait,
Jann (15:26):
he kept saying, he suspected if you suspect enough
to spend every night in yourtruck outside, you could have
said something.
Jax (15:32):
oh, for sure.
That's, that was
Jann (15:34):
Well, that's just one of the reasons why she's not in my
bottom.
First of all, she did alertpeople.
Mr.
Watson had his suspicions anddidn't say anything, and Mr.
Sterling for sure knew and waslike plotting on destroying the
whole neighborhood and thatcaring what happened to a little
girl who was only 10.
So yeah, no way is she in mybottom.
Joi (15:52):
I agree what you're saying because she's a little older to
let people just be in the housewith your family.
But she is still younger tounderstand if you think that
your new step siblings don'tlike you, your dad just thinks
you have an imaginary friend,there's not much more you can do
past that, especially being akid.
Jann (16:12):
I think mostly it's like bad parenting because even when
she was saying crazy stuff likeI didn't like mess with her
things, it was Ms.
Sugar, that should have beensome disciplinary action.
And then she kind of probablywould've insisted and you
would've checked it out.
But instead, they chose toignore everything that she was
complaining about.
Like, okay, now she's not beingreasonable, so let's just ignore
(16:34):
it instead of digging deeper.
Jax (16:36):
if I'm going to edit it, then my least favorite then
would just be Alec because histerrible daughter is terrible
the whole time and he's notdoing anything about it.
Jann (16:45):
Alec was awful.
the worst moment as far ascharacters in the entire book is
when he's saying I've had enoughyour addict daughter like put
Piper at risk and was saying allthese awful things about a
teenager, and then turned aroundlike the next day.
The mom was like, well, he'shurt that we had a contingency
plan.
Like, did you really just callthis girl an addict and talked
(17:07):
about how she's on drugs, howshe's putting everybody in
danger and this is the laststraw all in front of her face
and then be pissed because wepredicted it.
Joi (17:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (17:17):
Like really?
Like that was you as a grown mansaying this stuff to a child and
you're mad because she said,okay, this isn't working out.
I'm leaving.
Joi (17:26):
That, yeah, that was really messed up.
I didn't like him the entiretime pretty much, but I just
figured he was.
I watch a lot of scary showstoo, and it's always the white
dad that's just like, there'snothing going on.
Everything's fine, you know?
But, at the end he did have alittle bit of a character
development, like, Hey, youcan't talk about my daughter
that way.
At the end, and I mean, that'sjust kind of like there, there
was worse people in this story.
(17:46):
I feel like that makes him notas much a villain to me
personally.
You know?
Like he sucks,
Jann (17:51):
he was possessed he said he knew where the key was and
nobody knew where the key was.
And she was like, is he goingdown here the whole time?
I'm like, oh, so Alec ispossessed.
That's why he's acting like africking maniac.
But no, that was just him.
Joi (18:03):
I didn't think that, I just thought it was just like, oh,
it's a white guy.
He got the key, he like, youknow, ghost shit don't
Jann (18:09):
Well, what about the tooth though?
Like when you saw the tooth onthe ground and she was like, oh,
well, um, Piper is looking likereal possessed lately and losing
weight and looks frail, but thistooth is too old to be hers.
And I was like, it's Alec,
Joi (18:27):
I just thought it was just like, oh, ghost tooth.
Jax (18:32):
I think at that point I kind of called their twist just
because this was something thatthis is something that happens
often enough that it justimmediately came to mind.
Joi (18:43):
It.
It was one of those things wherewhen it came out, whether there
were actually people living in,I was like, yeah, I can see it.
But I,
Jann (18:53):
They were well into the fight before I realized what the
twist was like when they werewatching the actual video and
they saw, she came out thecabin.
I was like, oh, so this is agrudge type ghost.
she's like, I did not think itwas actually people there.
I'm like, they can see thisthing.
Joi (19:12):
No, it took me a minute to, I thought she was like a, a gey
kind of ghost too, coming outthe cabinet when she saw like
her scarred arm.
And I was like, holy shit, shehas the ghost.
It's right there.
And then she did something.
She's like, oh, wait a minute,she's human.
I was like, oh, oh, okay.
Burns.
Okay.
Okay.
Gotcha, gotcha.
I kind of prefer it to be ghoststhough.
(19:32):
I feel like it would've beenspookier if it was actually
ghosts and not someone living inthe house.
Jann (19:36):
Well, you know how I feel about scary stuff.
I prefer a thriller to a, like apossession.
So I was like ecstatic with atwist.
Like, oh, thank God I beat theshit out of somebody in my house
Anyway,
Joi (19:48):
That's the thing though, like with it coming to be
people, you're like, okay, I canfight them, I can shoot them,
whatever.
But if it's actually a ghost inthe ghosty sun or a demon or
whatever, that shit's scary.
Yeah, that's what I'm sayingthough.
And that's why it went from likea three to a one.
I was like, okay, people creepy.
I get like the ick kind offactor, but I'm not actually
(20:08):
scared anymore.
I'm like, mm.
Jann (20:10):
That whole scene where she would like, when you think about
that scene when he took herblanket off of her, that is
scary as hell.
It's not even just a ick, it'sscary.
This Mr.
Sugar went as far as poisoningthis guy, but she was in her
phone typing alarms, like shecould have stabbed her at any
point.
That is terrifying.
Joi (20:29):
I mean, yeah.
That's scary.
And like I said, it gives youthe, it comes, it's like
someone's in my house, you knowwhat I mean?
But that, that's scary when yousay it that way For sure.
And it makes it even funnierthat he just made us a angry
face.
Jann (20:42):
Terrifying, terrifying.
Well, that was Piper though.
It wasn't him.
It was Piper the next day.
Jax tell us, um, we gotsidetracked.
Um, but Yusef, why is he your f.
Jax (20:55):
I thought he was actually very well written.
Like his, how he reacted tothings made perfect sense.
His backstory was wellpresented.
It is not just all, thrown outthere.
And I just felt like he wasactually a good character.
And like I said with the, stickynote thing that was really cute.
I liked him.
Joi (21:15):
I feel like he was a little bit too judgy for me.
Like he treated her as if sheknew exactly what was going on
in the town and like the wholething about the weeded
situation, he was like superpissed off.
He could've like, listen,marygrove, I know you're from
California weeded or whatever.
Right?
Cool.
Here, not so much.
All the blacks are gone.
(21:35):
They locked our asses up.
They, you know, they plantedshit like, you know, like you
can't be fucking around withthat kind of shit here.
And that will be the end ofthat.
Like, there's no reason to bepissed off with her and, and,
and drive her away and, and beangry even though he forgave her
pre pretty easily.
The whole thing about the house,I didn't wanna tell you that the
house was haunted, like I'mliving here a heads up, you
(21:57):
know, we so many times and thatnever came up.
Jann (22:01):
he seemed like a bit of a know-it-all and judgy, like the
first time that she said Hey,Erica asked her if she wanted to
hit.
And first of all, he spoke forher, which I was completely
like, don't speak for me.
And then got pissed when shesaid yes, was like, okay, ick.
That gave me the ick, ifanything.
And then when he got mad at heragain, I'm just like, either
(22:22):
choose to hang out with her ordon't.
don't get pissed at her forbeing the way she is and judge
her for it or even when she hadto check him.
I'm so glad she did check himwhen.
She said she has anxiety and heimmediately was like, what do
you have to be anxious about?
Like just because you're goingthrough stuff does not mean
other people are not goingthrough stuff.
I have anxiety as a fullsentence.
(22:43):
I don't have to get into thedetails with you, and you
definitely don't have the rightto tell me what's anxiety worthy
or not You do not know me.
Like he seemed to assume a lotabout her and then got pissed
when it came to not be true.
So I agree.
He had a lot of good, qualities,but there were also enough that
I was like, okay, I'm not reallyfeeling him to be like a
favorite.
Jax (23:04):
See, I totally agree with what you guys are saying, but
just that they wrote him to havethe presence of mind that he
does come around.
He does change his mind.
He doesn't completely cut peopleoff.
He came back and apologizedabout the, anxiety things, like,
I respect that because you knowhow many people wouldn't, and
(23:24):
that he would, and he's ateenager too because, I mean,
the bar is low for teenagers.
But yeah, I just feel like they,he's, he was well-rounded.
Jann (23:34):
I agree and I feel like I like Tiffany D.
Jackson.
This is only the second bookI've read from her, but I can
say I like her novels becauseall of her characters are
imperfect, but still likable.
and I feel that way with Pipertoo.
Like I feel like she was 10right now.
I feel like if I found one of myrelatives that I'm very close to
dead, I'd be traumatized, butshe, at a very young age,
(23:55):
younger than 10, found hergrandmother and had to sit with
her body until her dad got home.
That's traumatizing for anyone.
And then to immediately afterthat, move in with this family
who doesn't seem to like you.
one of the teens who you don'tknow what drugs are, but she is
like saying all these nastythings to you and then overdose.
That's a lot for one 10 year oldto go through and still like
(24:18):
their family.
and then to figure out thatMarigo never apologized to her
for any of that.
I can definitely understand whyshe was the way she was, and
that's with everything that shegoes through.
There's a lot of snotty little10 year olds that are like that
just because their parents areremarried without going through
any of that trauma.
So yeah, I would say that shedefinitely wasn't my least
(24:38):
favorite for that.
But if we're talking about myfavorite characters, My favorite
character was Marigold.
I'm so surprised that you guysdidn't like her so much.
And I'll tell you exactly why.
I love that she went through somuch and was still able to stand
up for herself like she did withYusef.
She had a very strong backbone.
I feel like she was very flawed,but she was trying to recognize
(25:01):
her flaws through the wholebook.
And as soon as someone broughtit to her attention, there was
no like arguing oh, whatever.
that person's tripping orwhatever.
she immediately was like, ohshit, that is true.
Let me go and fix that.
She apologized.
To Piper, she apologized toYusef and you could see that she
was still punishing herself forsomething that like wasn't
(25:22):
really her fault.
She also had been through a lotand was still focusing on
improving her character, evenwith going through addiction and
this like huge debilitatinganxiety about the bedbugs.
So, uh, yeah, I felt like shewas a really, really strong
character
Joi (25:39):
I don't know.
I just, I, I couldn't get withMarigold at all.
Like I understand havinganxiety.
I understand you went through alot of different things, but she
was extremely harsh to Piper allthe time.
Even if she did rememberwhatever she said to Piper when
she, overdosed.
But it's just like you're 17talking to a 10 year old, you
(26:02):
know, and you wanna fight a 10year old.
I understand you were scared,but that's real messed up.
Bring it to your parents.
You know what I mean?
the way that she handled theissues with Piper was
ridiculous, I feel like.
And, I don't think.
You guys are giving a lot ofleeway to Marigold.
I guess Jan, you're kind of coolwith Piper too, but it's just
like, Piper should get theempathy that we gave to
(26:25):
Marigold.
'cause she's still a kid andshe's been through her own
traumas as well.
And then for Piper too, she'sgoing into a whole new family.
honestly a new culture, youknow, and the only thing she
knows for sure is her dad.
And they've moved twice sincethey, the dad met the mom.
You know, so it's just like ifanything, as the oldest, you
(26:49):
should be like reaching out andthis is what the mom and dad
should been doing too.
Like fostering a relationshipbetween their kids, you know?
Piper is still a child.
And even like when you thinkPiper is possessed, I'm glad
that Marigo went back to go gether when they were trying to get
out the house at the time whenthey thought they were like
under attack with the voice andeverything.
But I don't know, like I feellike Marigo was way too harsh
(27:12):
with Piper to be 17 and forPiper to be 10.
Jann (27:16):
I agree.
I feel like that was my, herleast favorite quality is like
how harsh she was with Piper,which is why I kind of liked how
the booked in with them, likereconciling and saying they need
to do better.
Like both of them.
I felt like that was like aredeeming point for both
characters.
Jax (27:31):
If like with Piper's situation, if that was an actual
child, I would give more leewaythan Piper in the book.
And that's mostly just because,and I get that because it's a
book you can only ever get theone perspective.
But there was just nothingreally provided for me
personally to come around onPiper as a character.
(27:53):
Everything that was presented ofPiper until the last 20 pages.
It was all an antagonistic.
It was all there to just makeher look worse and worse.
And there were just, was nothingthere for me to latch onto to
Jann (28:08):
I don't know if I would agree with that.
'cause they talked about how shelike didn't have any friends and
how the trauma with hergrandmother that came up before
the end and they talked abouther moving, like being displaced
twice when they met.
Like all that came up before theend.
Jax (28:21):
I feel like that's just Marks that go against Raquel and
Alec just because they treat thekids like they're cats, how you
just kind of plug and go.
They just expect them to sort itall out without any sort of
help.
And I feel like that'sdefinitely an aspect of that
whole flawed unit they had goingon.
Joi (28:42):
But I wouldn't blame Piper for it.
I wouldn't blame the baby of thewhole family about the whole
family's issues.
Jann (28:49):
If anything, I would say like seeing how awful they were
at parents and how bad they wereat discipline and be in a united
front, even with the kids, wouldexplain even more why she was
the way she was, like the wayAlec reacted, anytime she
complained about something, Iblamed him for her behavior way
more than I blamed her.
Jax (29:10):
Right?
Because Alec always, it didn'teven matter what it was.
He always would just side withher.
He doesn't even seek details oranything.
That just wasn't
Joi (29:17):
It was reinforced and she weaponized that every time.
Jax (29:21):
Right.
Joi (29:22):
like when she said, dad, Mari's trying to steal my
speakers to sell it for drugs,and he actually believed her, or
something like that.
What?
Jax (29:34):
I totally get what you're getting at.
I just feel like even with thesituation thinking of it
realistically, this child isjust failing.
Stranger danger spectacularly tothe point that you're letting
strangers stay in your house andthreaten your family a real way.
Jann (29:52):
it really her failing stranger danger if she told
someone and no one's believingher?
Again?
I feel like that's the fault onher parents.
And I feel like in blackhouseholds they say all the
time, like they don't want youto have imaginary friends
because of shit like that.
That is a prime example of,okay, maybe you can have
imaginary friends, but let'sactually talk about it.
Let's not just turn the cheekand hope she gets over it, you
(30:14):
know?
Jax (30:14):
Right.
Joi (30:15):
I feel like for me, Piper was a little too old to have an
imaginary friend being 10.
So I would question it likeimmediately, like when would you
step in with Piper?
Just like you have an imaginaryfriend, what the hell are you
talking about?
Like you're a little too old tohave imaginary, Frank, tell me
more.
It's like there's different waysto kind of like figure out what
the hell she's talking about.
And you probably could get outof her like it's an actual
(30:37):
person.
Or even if it's like somethinglike she had Ms.
Sugar's necklace or somethinglike that.
I'm like, that's a hauntedartifact.
Let's get the hell outta here.
Can we get off of Piper for asecond?
I wanna get back to Mari to howmuch I don't like her.
I even when I was 17, I knewgrowing weed in an abandoned
house was dumb as fuck.
Jann (30:59):
Especially in a place where they were like, seriously,
like heavily criminalizingweeded.
Like she just saw her friendErica get planted.
Like they planted weed on her itdidn't make a lot of sense.
Jax (31:10):
Yeah, that was that was just dumb.
100%.
Joi (31:13):
Like, it was just like, I'm just gonna grow my own weeded.
I'm just like, oh, you know,obviously people think about
that, like whatever, I'm justgonna grow it.
But you don't actually followthrough with that shit, and on
top of that, you black.
Like even when you live inColorado, California or
whatever, black people still getarrested for weeded.
Last thing you wanna do is endup growing it.
I thought that was soridiculous.
And every other sentence in thisbook was, man, I just need some
(31:36):
weeded, man.
I just need it, man.
I just need that.
I'm like, why don't you talk toyour mom about your anxiety and
see if she can take you to adoctor.
You know what I mean?
Jann (31:44):
She said that she was on some like kind of medication for
her anxiety and they justcompletely pulled her off of it
and pulled her away from herguru and like her therapist that
she was talking to and didn'treplace them.
And I was like, how did youthink that was going to work?
Like you move, if your kid hasthis much anxiety that she's
having episodes, and you saw theepisode, it was very intense.
(32:05):
I'm not gonna judge her fortalking about weeded every
second, just because I've neverhad, I have anxiety and I know
how like crippling anxiety canbe.
And I've never experiencedsomething so intense as she has
experienced.
Like, that episode killed me.
He's telling you it's coffeegrounds and you're not even
hearing him.
He had to cause someone to calmme down.
(32:27):
Down.
And even then sitting outsidenaked in winter, with your mom
and your brother trying to getyou to breathe, it took 45
minutes for them both to get youto just come into the house.
Jax (32:39):
And that's
Jann (32:40):
That's crazy to me.
Huh?
Joi (32:42):
Yeah,
Jax (32:42):
I said that was Ohio.
Winner too.
Jann (32:45):
Yeah, like I, I have never experienced something that
intense before.
It actually made me tear up tosee her like that.
That's intense.
Like that's debilitating.
So yeah, I can't blame her forwanting like to take the edge
off.
Joi (32:56):
that's a failure on the mom too.
your daughter had an overdose,you moved her.
She has anxiety.
This is all the things you know.
Why did you never check in withher?
Why'd you never say, Hey, how'sschool going?
Hey, how have you been feelingwith the new move and
everything?
Like she never did any of thatand she sucked.
Jax (33:12):
yeah, there was a lot of options.
Instead of just forcing her togo coat Turkey and expecting
that to work out, That wasabsolutely a massive failure on
Raquel's part.
Jann (33:22):
Or even the reason she had anxiety, it was not just the
bedbugs, it's the fact that shehad bedbugs and she was telling
people, and she said for a year,they didn't believe her.
You know how, like
Jax (33:33):
Yeah,
Jann (33:33):
how you told everybody, your mom, your dad, they didn't
believe you, they took you toprofessionals and they didn't
believe you.
And then after they still actlike it's your problem.
Like why are you still scared ofthese bedbugs?
Because now it's not even aboutthe bedbugs, it's the fact that
it's something's wrong with me.
I know.
No one's gonna believe me.
Joi (33:52):
It's been years.
It was years.
She lived with bedbugs, years.
She lived with them.
They took her to a dermatologistlike, what's going on with her
skin?
I told you it's bedbugs, youknow?
Jann (34:03):
And I'm like, no, no, it's probably this.
No.
Jax (34:06):
I can't imagine a year.
That's the, oh.
Joi (34:09):
Yeah.
Jax (34:11):
Like I can totally imagine exactly how she feels.
'cause I'm sure I'd panic thatway too, honestly.
Joi (34:16):
She had two, run-ins with the bedbugs.
And both times she ended upnaked on the porch.
I'm like, why didn't you takeher to someone in either one of
those times?
'cause remember she said she ranhome from when she was helping
clean up a, a, uh, the highwayor something.
It was a mattress, and she ranhome taking off her clothes.
Nothing from that.
Jann (34:33):
tell her mom about that.
Jax (34:35):
Yeah.
Jann (34:36):
Sammy knew about her running home naked, but I don't
think she told the mom, or Sammydidn't tell the mom about that.
So
Joi (34:43):
How would you feel being the friend on Skype and getting
those creepy ass Skype calls?
You know how fast I would turnmy computer off?
You can't keep calling me,bitch.
I would log off a Skypeuninstall it.
Jann (34:59):
it was FaceTime?
Joi (35:01):
Was it FaceTime?
Jann (35:03):
Yeah.
Joi (35:04):
Oh, that's even worse because you can't uninstall
FaceTime, I don't think on youriPhone.
Jann (35:11):
Yeah.
Joi (35:11):
I've been so scared.
And every time she calls yousomeone walking around behind
her too.
Nah, girl.
Jann (35:18):
Jackson, you said you guessed the plot when you saw
the tooth, or the plot twist,joy, did you guess at all what
was gonna happen?
Joi (35:25):
No, I thought it was a ghost tooth.
Jann (35:29):
I thought Alex was possessed, or Alec, whatever his
name was.
which brings me to the narrator.
I liked her a lot, but at acertain point, like it was so
scary that I didn't want hertalking.
So I finished reading the bookbecause like I would hear her
talk and then something wouldhappen in the house where I have
to like hurry up and find thepause so I could listen.
(35:52):
And I was like, enough, I needyou to shut up.
I'm just gonna read it.
Joi (35:57):
probably why it wasn't that scary for me either.
'cause I was playing on myswitch too, while I was
listening to it, just laying inbed, listening to it and playing
my game.
Like what happened?
Uh, two.
Ghost tooth, you know, ithappens.
Jann (36:08):
why you can't do the recap.
Maybe you should pay a littlebit more attention.
Jax (36:22):
It's okay, joy.
I can't multitask either.
I just read it
Jann (36:25):
Like I said, I was in such a state of fright when that hand
popped out of there.
I thought it was a gr that itdidn't even click to me that
they were real people until thegunshots.
And I was like, why would aghost be afraid of a gun?
Joi (36:38):
Well, if you watch Supernatural, they fill their
shotguns up with salt and theyshoot ghosts that way.
You can just double barrel it.
One can be salt and one can be abullet.
Jax (36:50):
But yeah, I'm surprised that neither of you guys guessed
the, twist.
Just'cause there's been big newsstories where they have somebody
living in their house and theynever realized it, or it's been
done in scary stories even.
did you see that?
When somebody found like the,entrance behind their mirror in
their apartment.
Joi (37:07):
led to another apartment.
Jax (37:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Stuff like that.
That happens a lot.
So I was like, oh, okay.
There, gotta be somebody in thebasement.
Joi (37:17):
Yeah, that's true.
That, I mean, it does happen andit is scary when it does happen.
I just didn't see, because Ithought that Piper was
possessed.
I thought that girl's gone.
Jax (37:26):
Like, I, like I knew about this thing.
I, I knew about this being athing, but I still believe she
would possess like, what?
No, no person would actually actthat way.
Joi (37:37):
And that's the thing too, since she wasn't possessed.
Okay.
I've been a nanny for years.
The girl that I watched was 10and she had a little brother who
was like two or three.
Once I, if I had him out thehouse already, after all this
spooky stuff went on, if Ithought she was possessed or
not, I already decided like Marygo to go and get her to flee the
(37:58):
house.
Why didn't she just go up thestairs and grab her little ass
and carry her out?
Where I pipe?
Pipe come Piper.
Jann (38:11):
Well, she did like, I feel like she was thinking like, if I
can get her to come down thestairs, I don't have to.
But after she turned around, shedid run up to go and grab her.
Like, I'm not playing this gameanymore with you.
I'm about to drag you out.
And she got hit in the face forit.
would've been hit in the facejust like she was like,
Joi (38:34):
Probably I would've been thrown down the stairs and broke
my neck.
I would've been knocked out'cause I would've been grabbing
them kids.
I couldn't have left the kids.
You would've to kill me thatday.
I'm like, listen, ghosts are notlike I'm getting this baby.
So I probably would've died inthis story.
Honestly, I don't think Iwould've made it.
Jann (38:57):
I would've made it because I would've left the first day.
Jax (39:05):
I
Jann (39:05):
There's that, and I feel like when my fight or flight
kicks in, if I don't feel like Ican get away, fight is so much
like my first response.
So I would've known that theyweren't ghosts real early on.
Joi (39:18):
Especially with that guy standing in your room.
You would've been fighting him.
I would've been fighting him.
Like, who the fuck?
Jax (39:25):
if I was in the situation, the story would've ended a lot
earlier just'cause when theyfirst moved in some, oh, we're
not allowed in the basement.
Why?
What's down there?
Why can't I go into my ownbasement?
Why did nobody question
Jann (39:38):
Watson.
Like I don't understand, like hesaid that if they go down there
they'll be sued.
But it didn't say he signed an Nd a.
Like why didn't he just saythat?
Like why was he so tightlipped?
If you're concerned enough towait on their street in the
truck, so many nights, why wouldyou never say Hey, have you guys
noticed this?
I've noticed this.
Have you guys, like there was noreason why he couldn't discuss
(40:00):
it.
Like that was
Joi (40:02):
Hey, I worked in your
Jann (40:03):
Especially since there are kids involved,
Joi (40:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jann (40:06):
you know?
Like he saw all those kids thatwere in that house
Jax (40:10):
Honestly, I feel like a lot of the horror is made by tons
and tons of really stupidfailings from the adult
characters And even with thewhole mob thing.
So Yusef was talking about howthey felt terrible about all
this stuff happening and thenlike they don't do Halloween
(40:31):
because of the fires andwhatnot.
But then they were just so happyto just dive right into it.
Oh, hey, look at this, the tarpsand whatnot that are here,
that's not suspicious because Iget it, it's a reference to the
whole thing that was happeningbefore.
But you know, in real lifepeople are like, that's pretty
suspicious.
You know?
Joi (40:50):
The way that they up, it just didn't make
Jax (40:53):
yeah, it didn't make sense at all.
Joi (40:56):
especially, it's like, oh, this little white girl missing,
and black people would be like,yeah, that sucks.
They wouldn't go like a wholemob.
Jann (41:07):
no, I think you have to consider that everybody in that
town, was trying to protectthemselves because they burned
down that house with Ms.
Sugar and her son in it.
So more than like them worryingabout the little girl, they had
heard that they were still aliveand they were concerned that the
story would've gotten out andthey wanted to protect
themselves from that.
That's why she, he was saying,don't tell anybody I told you
(41:30):
about Ms.
Sugar.
You know, Yusef, when he toldher, because his pop pop
would've been implicated in thatburning and they thought they
boarded up the house so fast andnever went back because they
thought the evidence was stillin that house, like the burned
bodies.
That's how any of this story wasable to happen is because they
were trying to bury a secret.
Joi (41:50):
it's
Jax (41:50):
what?
That's a, that's, I didn'tinterpret it that way.
I was always thinking that Yusefwas saying, don't tell anybody I
told you about this.
Or not even wanting to tell herabout that house being
potentially haunted.
Just'cause she was alreadyfreaking out so he wouldn't want
to, you know, add onto it bysaying, oh yeah, there's also a
ghost in there.
Just'cause the whole hack thingseemed like it was dragged out.
Joi (42:14):
No, I just feel like you can't whip up black people to be
a lynch mob.
Like, we don't do that.
You know what I mean?
I don't, I don't think that thatwould've worked that way the
first time when they killed,well, they supposedly killed the
son and then burnt down thehouse.
I don't think it would'vehappened this time either when
the girl went missing, even ifthey're trying to cover their
tracks, I feel like they'd bemore like, Hey, you know, we did
(42:38):
this a while ago.
Maybe we should go into theirhouse and check out what's going
on, see if we can find anybodies or anything like that.
You know what I mean?
It's just like, it's one ofthose things where I don't
believe that they would justlike leave it there.
Like if they did do a crime likethat and then they, people like,
you know, the city wants tostart reinventing, like the
neighborhood, they wouldn't wentin there long before they moved
to that house.
(42:59):
And I, I, I just, I just don'tsee black people doing lynch
mobs.
They call'em lynch mobs'causewhite people did it to black
folks.
I don't, I don't see them
Jann (43:07):
nobody was lynching anyone.
Joi (43:09):
But I mean, they basically did, if they found that boy,
yeah.
Beat him up and burnt him in ahouse.
That's a lynching.
Jann (43:16):
they burned him in a house.
Jax (43:19):
They thought that the, that the son and Ms.
Sugar were burnt to death in thehouse.
Joi (43:24):
because she went in to help him after they beat him up and
left him in the house and it wason fire all of a sudden.
Jax (43:31):
Like they definitely
Jann (43:32):
you guys are like really misinterpreting this.
So what happened was, They foundthe little boy dead in one of
the houses because he got lostand was in one of the abandoned
houses and got murdered bysomeone who was strung out on
drugs.
And then the white people wereburning down the houses and it
(43:53):
spread to the black people'shomes.
They never caught who wasburning the houses initially.
And that's when they weretalking about the mob with the
roussos and things like the onlytime the black people were
burning the homes was at theend.
And that's because when theytried to find John, John, who
they said was touching kids,they burned that house and she
(44:17):
ran in and it got burned downthe house next door pretty much
Joi (44:24):
so
Jann (44:24):
like the only time they were actually writing them.
Yeah, exactly.
The only time they were actuallywriting was at the end, and I
think that was to protect thesecret.
Joi (44:35):
but why would they be protecting you if they didn't
actually do any harm to John?
John?
It's just like, we just let hishouse burn like everyone else
did you know?
Jax (44:42):
yeah.
Joi (44:45):
I, I don't know, like if that was the case, I still don't
understand why they would do allthat.
Just to cover up that theyalready, we all already know we
let him burn in the house andhis mom, like, that didn't make
sense
Jax (44:56):
like I
Joi (44:57):
they didn't already try to attack him and leave him for
dead, if there was evidence,'cause if there was evidence of
them doing something fine, Icould kind of see that.
But if it was the white peopledoing it in the first place,
they had no hands on it.
They're just like, oh, he'salive.
You know?
Jax (45:11):
feel like from either perspective we might have just
stumbled onto a pothole ofsorts.
Joi (45:17):
Yeah.
I guess I'm just like, I, I justdidn't care for it.
I, it wasn't believable.
Jax (45:23):
Yeah,
Joi (45:23):
It's just, I, I didn't care for it, the
Jann (45:26):
But that actually happened though, like in the like riots
for black co Lives matter.
Jax (45:30):
yeah.
But people were calling outthat,
Jann (45:33):
sitting around waiting for people to break stuff because
they wanted to make the BlackLives Matter people to be
villains
Joi (45:42):
and that's the thing
Jann (45:43):
like that actually
Joi (45:43):
like, look, this is a new pallet that wasn't here 20
minutes ago.
Someone had to drop this off.
Right.
And obviously some people took'em, but like a lot of people
were calling out on Twitter,this wasn't here.
Is that gonna go, like, whodropped these off here
Jann (45:55):
Well, the same thing happened in the book.
They said there were a lot ofpeople in the crowd that were
still standing around the housewhen other people went off to
riot trying to figure out howthey can stop everybody.
There's just not, I, you can'tthink of it as, okay, they use
the black people.
Like black people cannot begeneralized.
You can't just say, black peoplewon't do this.
(46:16):
Like everyone is an individual,you know, like, and I'm not
saying you can't say like themajority of black people or the
majority of white people.
Sure.
But you cannot just say anexception.
Every black person isn't goingto do this.
People on their own areindividuals.
And some people had had enough,like what if you were in Yussef
shoes where your whole familywas freaking gone?
(46:37):
Like maybe you're just oppressedenough and like on the edge
enough.
Like you never know what peopleare going through, where they're
like, okay, this is the lastfricking straw I can't take
anymore.
You know?
And they seem to have put themin the exact right position to
wanna like mess stuff up.
Joi (46:52):
It is just, I guess it was the way it was written, it just
didn't seem very believable forblack people to do any kind of
like mobbing like that at all.
It just didn't add up for me andit took me out of the story.
I'm just like, I don't believethat we would do something like
that.
So I don't know.
I didn't care for it.
And that's probably why.
Is that still at a two and ahalf star for me?
(47:15):
I don't understand the communityreacting in the ways that they
react in this book.
That's basically my thing.
I have never seen a community ofblack folks, especially the ones
who's like in a community likethat, so they're obviously close
knit to react in the ways thatthey were reacting in this book.
And I didn't care for it.
It wasn't believable to me.
It felt like it was just likewritten there to have stakes
(47:36):
there to like a sense of danger,but it was almost like black
people were used as likemultiple times in this book as
just like a mob, like abrainless mob that could just be
like influenced to do whoever isat the heads bidding.
You know what I mean?
And it sucked and I didn't carefor it and took me right out of
(47:56):
the story.
Jann (47:57):
I think that's definitely your own interpretation.
I agree with you.
To a point, like at the end Ifelt like it was a little bit
too neatly wrapped up, I do feellike there were people in the
community that were friendly andI feel like there were people in
the community that were notfriendly.
And I do feel like that'srealistic.
Joi (48:12):
Mm-hmm.
Jax (48:13):
I feel like in both of those situations, I would've
been more forgiving of it,seeming so sloppy, like what we
were just talking about.
If,'cause you're sayingeverything was neatly wrapped
up, but like I feel like thebook has no damn resolution.
It just stops.
There's so much stuff thatshould have been tied up better
(48:35):
so that you can just see whatthe full situation they're
dealing with is.
And instead you're literally inthe middle of a big action and
then the book ends like, what amI supposed to do with this?
Jann (48:48):
I enjoyed it, especially considering the time that she
wrote it.
It was like right in 2021 and itwas like right where Black Lives
Matter, was in the thick of it.
You know, we were like goingthrough a bunch of stuff as a
people and it still unresolved.
Like you want to believe thatshe went on and went against the
Sterling Company and resolved alot of things.
but it's still unwritten, likeit still has to happen.
(49:11):
Um, I will say I was very upsetthat I didn't get a real
resolution with Erica beingimprisoned.
Joi (49:16):
Yeah.
Jax (49:17):
Yeah.
Jann (49:17):
But as far as like her and what she was going to do to help
save the community, the factthat she called it our
community, like she finally hada place to belong and somewhere
she felt like she had a stake inand can do some good was nice.
I thought it was interestingthat she said that she wasn't
gonna be able to run for awhile, and it seemed like she
was focusing her energyelsewhere.
(49:38):
I felt like going through thisnew trauma with Piper kind of
gave her some kind of resolve toher bedbugs issues where she
said it was still in the back ofher mind, but like it wasn't as
pressing as making sure Piperwas okay and that she was just
so exhausted from everything.
Like I felt like it was the cuspof change for a lot of things.
And change was a huge theme inthis book where I was saying
(50:02):
that Affirmation with her allthe time that she was saying
like, change is good, change isnecessary.
And then to have Yusef saychange isn't always good, which
like made her say, wait, holdon.
I feel personally attacked andlike just like thinking about
the theme of change and if it'sgood and if it's bad and what
needs to change, what shouldn'tchange tradition versus like the
future.
(50:23):
A lot of that was a huge themeand I felt like they ended or
she ended it right where itended because again, we are on
the cusp of a change for a lotof things.
Her anxiety, her track career,her belonging in a community,
obviously if they're going toactually wipe out this
neighborhood like they thoughtor not, like a lot of that is
left up to interpretation.
Jax (50:44):
I hear what you're saying, but I feel like that wasn't the
best position to leave it in, toleave it up to interpretation
because so much of the book.
Is based on dealing with all ofthat stuff, and now that you've
finally managed to get it to apoint where you can finally
start seeing the changes that'sbeen built up this whole time,
(51:06):
it's over.
Jann (51:08):
Yeah, but what was she actually trying to convey in the
book?
Was it the resolution to allthese issues, or was it
marigold's mindset?
These ghosts that she wasrunning from seemed to be her
own anxiety, her own like issueswith her past, her own issues
with not belonging.
And I felt like she was on theverge of understanding all of
that and she was getting throughit.
(51:28):
And the fact that like theseghosts that the neighborhood was
dealing with was not actuallyghosts.
She was putting a name and faceto all of those things that they
were.
Dealing with, you know, likewhen she was figuring out the
research and like following themoney, like a lot of things that
were just vague and didn't havea face to put to the name was
(51:50):
named.
You know, a lot of these thingsthat seemed to be like a
haunting, turned out to be real,like problems in the community
and like with her.
So I felt like that was a goodplace in my opinion, to stop.
Jax (52:03):
I'm just bothered that they never really got to the end with
people living in her house.
Like I understand symbolism, butOh my god.
You know?
Joi (52:14):
My only thing is that I wish it would've wrapped up at
least her mental health stuff,like showing her going to a
doctor or something.
I understand where you saidwhere it was, you know, to leave
for us to interpret as we will,like she will be making these
changes.
But I just wanted to see alittle bit more, you know, just
like maybe like a little downthe road, like they moved out
the house or they stayed in thehouse.
(52:36):
The other houses were gettingrenovated.
She was going to a therapist.
She didn't feel like she neededweeded or they got her medical
weed or actual anxiety mess thatactually worked for her.
Any of those things show herrelationship with Piper.
Follow up with what happenedwith Ms.
Sugar in the hospital.
Like any of these things, seewhat happened with Mrs.
Sterling.
You know, if John John lived,yeah.
(52:58):
It was just so many things thatwere left.
It was just like, I'm just like,it is too abrupt.
When it ended, I was waiting forthe next.
Yeah, I was, I, I was just,yeah.
Use it.
Yeah.
So I was just waiting foranother chapter to start.
When I was listening to it inAudible, I was just like, what's
the next chapter?
And then it was just credits.
And I was like, that sucks.
You know?
(53:19):
I feel like I probably would'vegave this book a little higher
of a rating if it had any kindof wrap up.
Any of'em, you know, the parentsbarely got into the house after
she found Piper, you know, andit ended.
I just, I thought it was toomuch that was
Jann (53:34):
The parents actually didn't get home.
Joi (53:37):
Oh, yeah, there was on the couch.
Yeah.
So it's just like,
Jann (53:39):
they were on the couch at Yusef's house, not their house.
I don't know.
I liked it.
Like how did you feel about theending of the Giver or not?
Not the giver.
I think it was the giver.
Jax (53:49):
I don't even remember that book.
Really?
Was
Jann (53:52):
Oh, any cliffhanger.
Do you generally enjoycliffhangers?
Joi (53:56):
I like cliffhangers when it makes sense to have a
cliffhanger.
Like if it's just like onecertain thing that's happening,
but not a whole wrap up whereit's like everything is leading
to this point and you justdidn't write about it.
You know,
Jax (54:08):
like if in the Phantom they end it right when they um, like
right when they just leave the,um,
Jann (54:17):
The Opera House?
Jax (54:18):
Thank you
Jann (54:19):
Yep.
So I feel like it's.
Jax (54:21):
other stuff happened.
Sorry, go on.
Jann (54:24):
Yeah, I definitely think it's a matter of preference.
Like I generally do likecliffhangers and I don't
necessarily see like abruptcliffhangers like this a lot,
like ACEs spades.
I feel like they kind of wrapthat up at the end like a couple
years after.
And I felt like it took awayfrom the story
Joi (54:39):
I didn't,
Jann (54:40):
because it didn't make any sense.
You know, like this really leadsyou to like, how would you like
it to end?
Like you say you want her to gethelp, but what if she doesn't
get help?
You say you wanna see the, howtheir house was renovated.
What if they actually destroyedthe neighborhood?
You know, like a lot of thatstuff is unwritten and I feel
like it makes sense for the timethat we're in right now because
it correlates with so manythings happening.
(55:01):
So many things happening in thereal world.
Joi (55:03):
My, my thing is I would've liked it if they parents came
home or if came to Yus, pickedthem up and they drove out of
the city with the, like, burningin the background.
That's one thing.
'cause it's, it'll be acliffhanger of like what's going
to happen.
But it can also interpret it asthey're a family unit and they
made it out alive and that'swhat matters.
(55:25):
You know what I mean?
They figured these things outand they left the issue, like it
was just, I don't know, like I
Jann (55:31):
you get that with Alec coming around and defending her
and then her and Piper, who wasthe biggest divide in the family
making up and saying they needto do better.
I feel like it would've been alittle cheesy actually, if
everyone came together at theend, especially since the dog
and the brother were still inthe hospital away from the like
Cedarville and like they didn'thave service because they
(55:52):
purposely cut off service.
They made it like this veryinsidious thing where like
nobody has service because theydidn't want them reaching out
and getting help.
They cut off access to the cityso they couldn't have driven
away from the city.
You know, like the police werebarricading people in and not
letting people like out, likeall of the, like it would've
been cheesy to have them drivingaway with the city.
(56:12):
Like, if that's all you need it,I feel like that wouldn't have
worked with the story.
Jax (56:16):
Yeah, I wouldn't have liked that with the ending.
Joi (56:19):
I dunno.
Jann (56:20):
But either way I do feel like it's a matter of like
preference and I feel likethat's how it always is with
cliffhangers.
Even like really well-knownworks of art.
Some people hate a cliffhanger,period.
So it, it is a matter ofpreference.
I personally enjoyed it.
I can see that you two did not,even though you don't really
agree on what the ending shouldhave been.
I feel like we're just kind ofscattered with that and that's
(56:41):
fine.
I feel like that's kind of whatcliffhangers do,
Joi (56:44):
And that's the point
Jann (56:45):
but I do wanna hear from other people.
Yeah, exactly.
I do wanna hear from otherpeople, like if you liked the
ending, if you liked the book,if you thought it was scary, so
joy, do you wanna tell'em wherethey can find us and write in
about their opinion of the book?
Joi (56:58):
Yeah.
You can find us at Black GirlReads podcast, on TikTok and
Instagram and on Twitter it isBlack Girl Reads pod.
the black is spelled b l k onall of them.
Jann (57:11):
Jackson, where can the audience find you if they would
like to reach out?
Jax (57:15):
I can be found on basically, Every social media
platform at 100 pugs, that's thenumber 100 pugs, no space.
Jann (57:26):
All right, well then I'm just gonna go ahead and announce
the next book, which is a,another horror book called Burn
Down.
Rise Up.
So next week we'll be readingthis one.
The synopsis goes Mysteriousdisappearances and urban legend
rumored to be responsible, andone group of teens determined to
save their city at any cost forover a year.
(57:47):
The Bronx has been played bysudden disappearances that no
one can explain.
16 year old Raquel does her bestto ignore it.
After all, the police only lookfor the white kids.
But when her crushed Charlie'scousin goes missing.
Raquel starts to pay attention,especially when her own mom
comes down with a mysteriousillness that seems linked to the
(58:07):
disappearances.
Raquel and Charlize team up toinvestigate, but they soon
discover that everything is tiedto a terrifying urban legend
called the Echo Game.
The game is rumored to trappeople in a sinister world
underneath the city, and therules are based on a
particularly dark chapter in NewYork's past.
And if the friends want to savetheir home and everyone they
(58:27):
love, they'll have to play thegame and destroy the evil at its
heart or die trying.
Joi (58:33):
That sounds
Jax (58:34):
Is her crush Charlize or Charlize's cousin.
Jann (58:38):
Charlie's
Jax (58:39):
Okay.
Jann (58:41):
Yeah,
Joi (58:42):
It sounds spooky.
I like the idea
Jann (58:45):
it sounds fun.
Yeah, I like this one.
it's, no, it doesn't seem likethere's any possession involved,
so I was afraid to read a coupleof these books this month, but
I'm just excited for this one.
So, yeah,
Joi (58:59):
All right.
Jax (59:00):
So when are you doing the Goosebumps chapter?
When are you doing the episodeon Goosebumps.
Jann (59:08):
I like goosebumps.
I don't know why everyone treats'em like, they're like not works
of art just because they're madefor kids.
Anyway,
Jax (59:15):
love goosebumps.
I just know
Jann (59:17):
so did you guys see that?
Like r l Stein rated this booklike amazing.
Jax (59:21):
I did see that.
Jann (59:23):
He is actually on the cover of the book Giving a Good
Review.
I thought that was awesome forher, especially since was, it
was her first horror novel she'sever written,
Jax (59:32):
That's super cool.
Jann (59:34):
and I saw that there's a trailer for a movie for this,
but I'm not sure if it was fanmade or not, and I could not
find any evidence of a realmovie.
So I don't think it is,
Joi (59:42):
I feel like Ro Stein's books, the Goosebumps.
There's some scarier ones thanthis one, like Slappy.
The plant dad or whatever, don'tgo in the basement.
That freaked me out more thanthis story, for sure.
Jax (59:56):
I can't think of any Goosebumps books that actually
scared me.
It's just that one dog in thetheme.
But those are great books.
Jann (01:00:05):
Yeah.
All right.
Well it was great talking withyou guys.
Jax, thanks so much for joiningus this week.
Thanks everyone.
Bye.
Joi (01:00:13):
Bye
Jax (01:00:14):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.