Unveiling 'Skin of the Sea': Exploring Identity, Mythology, and the Power of Transformation| BLK Girl Reads Ep.1

In this captivating episode of Black Girl Reads, join our dynamic book club as we dive deep into the enchanting world of 'Skin of the Sea' by Natasha Bowen. From the very first page, this novel takes us on an extraordinary journey filled with themes of identity, mythology, and the profound power of transformation. Join us as we unravel the layers of this remarkable story, discussing its compelling characters, evocative imagery, and thought-provoking messages. Get ready for an insightful conversation that will leave you eager to embark on your own literary voyage through 'Skin of the Sea'!

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Episode Transcript

Jann (00:01):
a way to survive.
A way to serve.
A way to save.
SImi prayed to the Gods once.
Now she serves them as Mamiwata.
A mermaid collecting the soulsof those who die at the sea,
blessing their journeys backhome.
But when a living boy is thrownoverboard, Simi goes against an
ancient decree and does theunthinkable.
She saves his life andpunishment awaits those who dare

(00:23):
to defy the Gods.
All right, welcome guys to ourpodcast.
This is the first episode and weare reviewing Skin of the Sea by
Natasha Bowen.
I'm Jannise and

Joi (00:35):
I'm Joi.

Jann (00:38):
we're gonna be hosting these episodes together every
week.
New episode every Sunday.
So that was the synopsis of thebook that we're reviewing.
Joi, if you were to give arating out of five stars, what
would you give this book?

Joi (00:53):
I would give Skin of the Sea a five.
Absolutely.
Five outta five.
Five stars.
Five star fish cuz she lives inthe water.

Jann (01:05):
I've never heard the term five star fish, but Okay.
I'm nervous to tell you my, huh.

Joi (01:12):
What would you, you're gonna rate it low?

Jann (01:17):
I'm not rating it low, but I am gonna rate it.

Joi (01:22):
don't do it.

Jann (01:24):
I would rate it like a three, three and a half stars.

Joi (01:27):
What?
Okay.
Why?

Jann (01:35):
Yeah.
Let's get into, like, explainingour ratings a little bit.
But just so everyone who's just,for everyone who's listening,
there will be spoilers from hereon out.
So if you haven't read the bookyet and you wanna read it, make
sure that you log off becausewe're not going to edit
ourselves,

Joi (01:52):
That's right

Jann (01:53):
but let's hear it.

Joi (01:54):
and we're going through it like you gotta read

Jann (01:56):
We are, we are.
It is a must read.
Yeah, sure.
It No it is.
I didn't mean thatsarcastically.
It's a good, it's a good book.
I just dunno if I would ratedfive stars.
So why don't you tell me why yourated it five stars.

Joi (02:12):
Okay, so first of all, let me, let me get the visual for
you.
When I saw this book in thebookstore, I

Jann (02:19):
it up then.
Let's see it.

Joi (02:21):
I, all right, so Skin of Sea tell me you would not pick
this book up if you walkingaround Barnes and Noble Borders.
Whatever bookstore.
It's beautiful.
The gold, the black, the darkskin, the curly hair.
She's beautiful.

(02:42):
So obviously I picked her up.
Um, and then the blue,

Jann (02:45):
actually see it.

Joi (02:46):
you can't see it.
There you go.

Jann (02:49):
We can see the reflection of the sun, but yeah, it's
really pretty.

Joi (02:54):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
She's beautiful.
And so I picked it up.
The blue is beautiful.
She's a mermaid.
I'm obsessed with blackmermaids, you know, so there you
go.
That's why I absolutely love it.
And when

Jann (03:08):
you being obsessed with black mermaids, I feel like we
don't really see that a ton, soI feel like even before you
opened up the book, you weregonna be obsessed, you know?

Joi (03:18):
I mean, to be fair, it was gonna be a three just from the
cover, but don't, let's not lieto ourselves, but.
You know, when you buy newbooks, I have a bad habit of
buying books and then notreading them.
This is when I immediatelystarted reading.
It took a while to get through,cause I just have, you know,
life.
Um, but it's an amazing book.

(03:39):
It's so, refreshing cuz it's inthe ocean.
You get No, I'm just kidding.
No, it's like, it's, it'srefreshing because I've been on
this book journey looking for agood book, black book written
with black characters, butthere's like no trauma, no one's

(03:59):
getting whipped, no one's inchains.
And I mean, to be fair withthis, it does have, it's um, in
the 1400s I think it's based.
So it has a little bit of justlike the whites bringing black
people over, African people overfor the slave trade.
But you don't get a lot of theBrutality that we're used to

(04:21):
seeing people like us facing inbooks and you know, in stories
and movies.
So I really liked that and Iliked how I could just escape
into the book without beingtraumatized.
And that was a big thing for me.
It made me want to go andresearch who these gods and
goddesses were that I had noidea growing up in America,

(04:42):
where, you know, it makes mewant to do research.
It makes me want to look moreinto who this author is, who
Simi is.
Like I want to learn.
And I feel like when a bookmakes you want to further your
research into a certain culturegenre, I think that that's a
five star book.
Even if you don't necessarilylike what happened throughout

(05:03):
the book.
I think the after feelings andfeeling good after reading it
and wanting to do more after itmakes it a five star.
Now, why did you not like it,Jan?

Jann (05:13):
I didn't say I didn't like it.
I didn't say I didn't like it.
I like it for all of thosereasons that you said, to be
honest.
And the fact that like blackmermaids, I've don't see that
very often.
So I was super excited to seethat and to like, you know, I, I
am a fantasy fiction girlanyway, so I love that.
What I would say is just thatthere was, I don't know what it

(05:36):
was exactly, maybe it was at thebook was a little short.
Um, it was very action packedand I feel like the very like
driven plot line kind ofhindered the character
development.
For me, like I feel like yougotta good sense of who the
characters were, but you didn'treally dive deep to get to know
a lot of the characters.

(05:56):
And this is what my thought isoverall, to be honest with you.
It's such a gorgeous book.
Like when they were describingher with like the blue and the
like pink, like the blushcolored Tail.
Yeah.
I, I was like, this is gonna bean amazing movie.
They have to make this a movie.
Absolutely.
Like I get like memoirs of ageisha vibes where this is gonna

(06:16):
be stunning, you know?

Joi (06:17):
Yeah, it has to be.
Absolutely.

Jann (06:20):
yeah.
But, I guess It seemed, it putme in the mood of a movie
actually, where you kind of geta sense of the characters, but
you don't really go deep intotheir psyche too much.
And, I've read a couple offantasy books about like the
African Orishas, so it wasn'tlike quite as new and fresh to
me as it was for you.
Um, so for that reason, I feellike it wasn't as much of an

(06:43):
impact for me reading it for thefirst time, you know?

Joi (06:46):
I feel like this is one of the books that, oh, sorry.

Jann (06:50):
that's okay.
That's okay.
What gonna say.

Joi (06:52):
No, when I was actually listening, cause I, I ended up
having to listen to it onAudible, cuz I wanted to get
through it and get chores andthings done.
But when I was listening to theauthor talk about why she wrote
it, it almost, It almost broughta thug tear.
Cause she was saying that likeshe, she always loved Little

(07:14):
Mermaid, but she, she wantedlike some representation cuz it
matters and it's just like,yeah, like that's definitely
true.
And if they were to make thisinto like a few feature film or
either cartoon or some kind ofanimation for black girls can
see themselves and black boys,you know, you might wanna start
on your phone during thepodcast, but yeah, I'm just

(07:36):
saying it was just like, it waschopped full of just like
beautiful, and then she also,she also noted that black
history does not start withslavery and I love that.
So we have a whole rich culturethat we obviously don't know
much about, that we want tolearn about.
But yeah, I think it's, I thinkit's an important book.

(07:58):
I think it's a fun book and Ithink it's a perfect book for

Jann (08:02):
And to be clear, a three and a half star is not like a
bad rating at all.

Joi (08:06):
Its average?

Jann (08:07):
Like, I feel like it was a, yeah, it's, I would say it's
average just because I, like Isaid, I read a lot of like
fantasies and a lot of thosefantasies do like revolve around
the Orishas and you know,

Joi (08:19):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (08:20):
not necessarily a competition, but in comparison
to some of those others, wherewas a little bit longer because
it was a quick read this book,which I enjoy, like, I like
quick reads.
But you know, it just, I was ex,I was expecting more and I feel
like a lot of the theories thatI had didn't really come to
fruition, which we'll get into.
Like, I don't know why that kindof made me disconnect a little.

(08:40):
Um, but my first question, sincewe're kind of talking about the
characters and characterdevelopment is like, did you
connect with the characters

Joi (08:48):
I think

Jann (08:49):
do you like, okay, so who was your like best and worst
characters?

Joi (08:54):
Um, I think my best character would probably be,
Yemoja.
The mother of the mommy wata themermaids.
Because she, even though she hasthe passion for finding these
souls and releasing them to Olomade dear, I think that's the,

(09:15):
the, you know,

Jann (09:16):
Olodumare?

Joi (09:16):
Olodumare yeah.
She knew her purpose, but shealso understood where she was
coming from.
She was Like Simi, you can't bedoing this, but since you did
it, this is how we gonna fix it.
You know?
She was like, look at my face.
Look what, look what happened tome when I fucked up.
You know, honest mistakes, butwe gotta get to, you know, we

(09:37):
gotta fix it, basically.
So she, she

Jann (09:40):
was hot, to be honest.
Like she, she pretty much saidYou're the only one who did not
listen.
Did we not just talk about thislast week?
I said,

Joi (09:51):
Yeah, I can understand that too, like once you see her scars
and everything, what she's beenthrough.
But I think it was very smart.
Instead of having her be pissedoff and like, like cuss her out
or you know, all that stuff.
Like obviously she was upset,but I think it was very
important for her to also sitdown and talk, to Simi and say
like, listen, this is why I toldyou this is our mission.
This is why we we're supposed todo what we're supposed to do and

(10:13):
nothing else.
You know, it's for your safetyand my safety and all of your
sister's safety, you know?

Jann (10:19):
So, I'm just gonna say this.
I don't know if it's because Igrew up in a black household or
what, but, um, that whole scenewhere she was getting pissed off
at Yemoja, like you should havetold me, like, have you lost
your mind you talking to your,that's your mama.
Like she shoulda told you what?
You better sit down and listen,like you're really trying to get

(10:41):
the black slapped off you today,like what's happening,

Joi (10:45):
And that's why I think that's so important too, because
that's how we grew up, right?
We were always afraid to askquestions and to, you know,
really kind of get in therelike, well, why?
You could never ask why.
So I really

Jann (10:56):
that's not even the point though.
I feel like there was somedisrespect there cuz, hold on,
hold on.

Joi (11:01):
Yeah.
There was,

Jann (11:02):
the time to ask why was when she said, this is all you
need to do.
And she could have said, why?
You don't say, okay, yeah, I'mgonna do that.
And then go off and do somethingyou're not supposed to do and
then get mad and say, well youshould have told me.
Like,

Joi (11:18):
I mean, the way you say it, yes, but at the same

Jann (11:21):
That's a little different.

Joi (11:23):
at the same time though, I feel like when you ask why after
a major, something majorhappens, that's also fair.

Jann (11:31):
That's fair.
But you don't get pissed offbecause she didn't tell you and
ask her why.
Like mad.

Joi (11:37):
She gives me the youngest of the siblings,

Jann (11:40):
kept, she kept saying like, I had to tempt down my
anger.
What did Yemoja do for you to bemad at her?
Like, anyway, I'm just defendingyour fave, that's all.

Joi (11:56):
And yeah, I

Jann (11:57):
your favorite character.

Joi (11:59):
absolutely.
I absolutely loved her.
She was amazing and I loved herstory.
Um, my least favorite wouldprobably be, um, it's gonna be
horrible.
I did not like the yumbo Issa.

Jann (12:15):
I knew you were gonna say that,

Joi (12:17):
I, I did not.
I did, I didn't, I didn't likehim.
Like, I didn't like how

Jann (12:23):
myself like how they did.
Like he's a child.
He is a child,

Joi (12:27):
Yeah, he's a child.
But I mean, like, it wasn't likevitriol or anything, or
annoyance.
It was more just like, okay,you're supposed to take us to,
and the whole time after theygot to Kola's village, the, the.
Was it the grandfather or thefather told him to bring his
butt on home?
He never did that.
I'm like, so when he gonna golike, why is he even in the

(12:48):
gates?
Like, send his ass packing andthen for him to show up again
later, I was like, see,

Jann (12:54):
were annoyed by

Joi (12:55):
what happens.

Jann (12:56):
wanted him to leave.

Joi (12:57):
It wasn't that, I'm just like, you did what you're
supposed to do.
Like the other two promises thathe would be back it, it was
concern and then it was like, itwas one of those things where
it's like, I love you so muchchild, but I need you to do what
you gotta do and, and beat it.
Like, you know, with this grownfolks, we gotta do some stuff
over here and there's a reasonwhy you're not supposed to be

(13:18):
coming on this huge mission withus.
So

Jann (13:21):
This is what I mean though.
Like I understand that Issa wasa side character, but I just
feel like I.
The only times we like, kind ofmentioned Issa, even though he
was there the whole time, therewere huge spans of time where he
was just in the bag and wedidn't hear from him.
You know, like there just wasn'ta lot of time to connect with
him the way we should have.
Like, I didn't get that childlike vibe, from him, you know?

(13:44):
Even though he was a child, likehe was a kid.
And I feel like that made thedeath scene of Issa, like, not
like, oh, finally, like,anything like that.
But it just wasn't it didn't hitme like it should have, you
know?

Joi (13:58):
It was one of

Jann (13:59):
So I, I just wish I, we could connect a little bit more
with the characters like that.

Joi (14:03):
No.
Yeah.
It was one of those things whereI was like, when he died and it,
you know how Simi was kind ofhard on him the whole time too,
especially after the riverMonster scene.

Jann (14:14):
I hated how mean she was to him at that

Joi (14:16):
I didn't, I didn't because this is the third, second or
third time, Simi had to saveKola's ass from dying, and this
one could have been avoided.
I don't think

Jann (14:28):
of that was his fault.

Joi (14:29):
Coming from Simi's point of view, it's like, listen, you're
supposed to get us here likequickly.
I understand, but at least giveus a heads up.
Don't let me and Kola just chillin the river when you know this
monster's here.
You say, Hey, this, what was itcalled?
I forgot what it was called, butit was like, it's in the river.
Not usually we're supposed to

Jann (14:49):
think that was, if they make this a movie, that Dragon
is gonna be freaking gorgeous.

Joi (14:54):
yeah, everything will be gorgeous.
Like what?
What are you saying?
But no, yeah, like give us aheads

Jann (15:00):
of the scenes.

Joi (15:02):
right?
Like Kola don't go on the river.
Obviously the bridge broke, hefell, but they were chilling in
that river for a hot minute andIssa never said anything about
it, so,

Jann (15:14):
he's a kid.
It's not even like he's ateenager.
He is a kid.
I don't think he was thinkingabout it when they were just
gonna go over the bridge,

Joi (15:22):
mm-hmm.

Jann (15:22):
you know?
Um, and then when the bridgebroke, I think he was just
relieved that he didn't drownand he was already swimming to
the shore, you know, I'm notsaying he was right.
He should've like, oh my God,get out of the river.
He should have did that.
But yeah, I just didn't like howupset she was, which I feel like
she agreed with.
Even in the book, she was like,yeah, I, I hate how I acted

Joi (15:44):
It was one of

Jann (15:44):
was like screaming at him like he was a grown man.
Like

Joi (15:49):
yeah, that's true.
She was hard on him.
But again, it's one of thosethings where it's just like why.
Once again, I could have atleast had a

Jann (15:56):
so surprised that you as a gentle parenting queen, It is
saying like, Nope, nope, it wasokay.
That's perfectly fine.

Joi (16:06):
I'm not saying that it was, the reaction was okay.
I'm saying the reaction washuman.
And when you're in a situationlike that, yeah.
I don't blame Simi for thereaction.
But I can, and I can see whereshe's coming from.
I don't agree with it, but I cansee where she's coming from.
And like I said, with with him,he is a child.

(16:27):
But once again, it's just likeyou did your job before they
even, like if they saw thoseguards lined up at the gates,
that's when they said, okayIssa, it's time to head back
home.
And that's all I'm saying, likeIssa should not have been
throughout the rest of the book.

Jann (16:43):
okay, you saying it like you were just trying to convince
me.
I would just say I didn't likehow hard she was on him, but
again, she agreed.
It's not like hate on hercharacter.
That's just,

Joi (16:53):
And even then too,

Jann (16:54):
your,

Joi (16:55):
why would they bring him off the ship?

Jann (16:58):
hate Issa.

Joi (16:59):
I don't hate him, he's just my least favorite character, cuz
he should not have been therefor the rest of the story.
He was there for two thirds ofthe story.

Jann (17:07):
All right, I got you.
I got you.

Joi (17:14):
who is your favorite character?

Jann (17:17):
So you're gonna be surprised that I have not really
thought about it since I askedyou the question, but, um, okay.
So Kola, I feel like was myfavorite character,

Joi (17:28):
Really

Jann (17:28):
which I wasn't expecting.
I was not expecting, but I feellike after he um, I liked that
he kept his word with everythingthat he did.
I liked that he had her backthroughout the entire story.
Like even when, Issun was tryingto split them apart, I was like,
she didn't tell you that youguys couldn't be together.
And she was expecting him to bepissed.
He was like, eh, who cares?

Joi (17:49):
Right?
Like a Mami Wata duh.

Jann (17:52):
Right.
He was just like, at thebeginning I thought he was a
villain, just putting it outthere.
I thought that he wanted to getbad back so bad because he was
shady and probably dealing withthe, I forget what they called
the Portuguese

Joi (18:09):
Like the obos or something like that.

Jann (18:11):
or MBOs or what?
Yeah, whatever.
I thought he was like dealingwith them and like trading
people.
Like I had just had all thesuspicion in the world, but he
just turned out, maybe it wasbecause I was suspecting him to
be a villain.
The fact that he turned out tobe so decent and nice and even
killed.
Even the argument between Issaand um, Simi Daley, like he was

(18:31):
the one like, okay guys, it's,it's fine.
I'm the one who got bit here.
Everyone calmed down.
You know, like how do you keepthe peace after you just got bit
by a water dragon?

Joi (18:42):
And drowned and whipped and kidnapped and thrown in the sea.
Yeah.

Jann (18:46):
Like this dude.
I'm like, it's gonna be nothingto him.
Left by the end of this book.

Joi (18:50):
He's like a cat.
He got seven lives.
Wait, was it nine lives?
He died so many times.
I couldn't keep up.

Jann (18:57):
I had to think about it like seven.
He has nine.
It's nine.
But yeah, I was, it was a, itwas a surprise to me that he was
my favorite.

Joi (19:04):
I never knew, I never thought that Kola was the bad
guy because when Yemojamentioned, The messenger God.
I was like, okay, that's the badguy.
Like, I never, I never

Jann (19:16):
Well, there could be more than one villain in a book.

Joi (19:20):
Yeah, you're right.
You, oh my gosh.
You know, I just realized andliterally just clicked.
I was like, you remember whenYemoja gave her the dagger and
said, don't trust people.
She literally trusted everybodyexcept for like with the Mami
Wata stuff.
She didn't really tell anybodytill the end.
But, um, there was no oneuntrustworthy that she met,

(19:41):
except for the messenger Godthat was in disguise.

Jann (19:47):
Issun.

Joi (19:49):
Yeah.
Issun.
She like, you know, that wholething.
But I was just like, no onereally went for her or anything
like that.
I thought it would be like moredanger.
I thought it would be more whitepeople or Portuguese or
whatever, and that would be theissue, but it wasn't.
But yeah, that just clicked tome like she never had to.

Jann (20:08):
So here's a question.
When they got on the ship, uh,like the one that they took
over, the other black peoplefrom all around, what did you
think then?
Did you trust them immediately?

Joi (20:18):
Um,

Jann (20:19):
that's who she was talking about when they got on the boat.
Like, don't trust it.
They are trading your kind.
Um,

Joi (20:26):
You don't trust nobody.

Jann (20:28):
at Kola I didn't trust anybody at all.

Joi (20:31):
You said it be your own kind every time.

Jann (20:35):
Not every time don't, don't, don't do that.
Like all I'm saying is I'm nottrusting anybody.

Joi (20:42):
I, I wanted to trust them very badly and then like when
they like sat them down in theroom and brought them like food,
I was like, oh no, it's gonna belike some kind of sleep, drug or
something in the soup.
And it wasn't.
And I was just like, oh my gosh.
Like these are actually goodpeople.
So what does that say about us?
I think we need therapy.

Jann (21:02):
I think it just means that we are used to having to watch
our backs.
And I That's a good thing.
Um, and it's refreshing when youread a book where that doesn't
exist.
Uh, well, it does exist, but youknow, you can trust some people.

Joi (21:16):
Yeah,

Jann (21:17):
I think that's awesome that she like told that story
too.
Cause I feel like in blackhistory you don't really hear a
lot about black people fightingback, even though that was a
huge part of history.
Like they really portrayed blackpeople to be just complacent.
Like, they didn't really doanything about it, but we kind
of just decided to give themtheir freedom, you know,

Joi (21:36):
right.

Jann (21:37):
like, yeah.
And that's not how it was.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm glad that sheportrayed that side.

Joi (21:42):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (21:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
So I wanna tell you, oh, Ididn't really say who my least
favorite character was,

Joi (21:53):
Who was it?

Jann (21:54):
and I don't know, I feel like they were all pretty
complex.
Like obviously, like Issun waslike a di a jerk, he was kind of
an ass hat.
But, um,

Joi (22:05):
How you,

Jann (22:05):
I didn't, what.

Joi (22:07):
Devin, you censor your, you sensor, you censor yourself on
dick, but then you said ass hat,right?
Right after.

Jann (22:15):
That's not what I was gonna say.
That's why.

Joi (22:17):
Okay.

Jann (22:18):
But um, yeah, I don't know.
It wasn't like, normally whenI'm reading the story I'm like,
I cannot believe this person islike over and over and over
again making me sick.
But it was just like, he was badfrom the start.
He was bad at the end.
And again, we didn't really getinto his character development,
so whatever.
Like it was a very flat villainfor me.
I didn't really feel a lot ofemotion towards him.

(22:40):
And again, I feel like that goesinto, we didn't really have time
for character development thatI'm wanting

Joi (22:46):
Or was it just that like everyone was so helpful and
actually did what they weresupposed to do, like even with
Issun.
I thought that he was a, was areally good character to have in
the background, like with thestorm came and they weren't
sure, but they kind of knew.
And then having him in disguisein the same boat, like I feel
like they did, she did um, himvery well.

(23:07):
Like you never know, it could belike right behind you.
This whole time they thoughtthey were racing him to get
there, but just to find out, healready got there, got the
twins, went back, dropped themoff, came back, was in disguise.
You know what I mean?
I thought that was veryinteresting.

Jann (23:24):
Huh.
I don't know.
I mean any, all of that, I stillfeel like the character was
flat.
I just didn't feel a lot ofemotion towards him.
Even though he did all theselike, heinous things and got
Issa killed.
I just, I'm like, oh yeah, he'sbad.

Joi (23:39):
I

Jann (23:39):
That's how it

Joi (23:40):
favorite was Ola.
Ola Damari.

Jann (23:43):
Olodumare?

Joi (23:44):
Yeah,

Jann (23:46):
Why?

Joi (23:46):
nothing like everything.
Everyone was like, oh yeah, he'sso busy.
He's doing this, he's doingthat.
I'm just like,

Jann (23:53):
Nah, your least favorite character was Issa.
Don't try to backtrack now.

Joi (23:56):
listen,

Jann (23:58):
You hated the child.
We got it

Joi (24:02):
wow.
Anyway, uh, what's the nextsegment please?

Jann (24:04):
here.
Whatever.
Here's what I will say.
Like I, I, when they firstshowed, um, Yemoja, or not
showed, but like described herand she was coming out of the
water and she was way biggerthan her.
I was like, oh my goodness, thatis so beautiful.
And I couldn't imagine beingthat close to an Orisha.

(24:25):
And I kind of feel like I wasn'texpecting so many Orisha to be
actual characters in the bookbecause coming in contact with
an Orisha should be rare, right?
So once it got to the part whereShango and Oye was on the boat,
I was like, okay, that'sawesome.
We're getting to meet morecharacters and more Orishas.

(24:45):
But then when they were juststayed there and was like
chatting with people, I'm like,is this normal God behavior?
Like it kind of dimmed thesignificance of them being
orisha.
For me,

Joi (24:58):
I don't think so

Jann (24:59):
they stayed so long and was like chatting,

Joi (25:01):
I think that, with it being she, her being.
Not human either.
And then on a very much nothuman journey, it kind of makes
sense that she came into contacta lot more with Orishas.
And then on top of it, you know,people, even in Greek mythology,
they say that back in the daypeople would come into contact
with Greek gods and goddesses alot more often than

Jann (25:24):
but they were disguised as mortals.
So there's two things too withthat.
Like in that they were disguisedas mortals.
These were not, they were justlike full blown Orisha throwing
thunder.
Shango was throwing thunder,which just side note, Shango is
actually, I figured out todaythe.

Joi (25:40):
Aquarius

Jann (25:41):
Orisha that corresponds with my horoscope,

Joi (25:44):
I'm like, makes sense.

Jann (25:46):
Aquarius.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was shout out to Shango,

Joi (25:51):
And

Jann (25:52):
No, and so to that.

Joi (25:53):
was Libra.

Jann (25:54):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so there's that, like, therewere disguised as mortals, and I
feel like that's, it's kind oflike a odyssey vibe, like where
you run into more supernaturalcharacters because you're going
through that journey.
But their journey had nothing todo with Oye and Shango it was
just them destroying the boat,like they ran into them by

(26:16):
coincidence, you know?
So it kinda gives the feelingthat they're just out there.
So, I don't know.
That was a bit weird for me.

Joi (26:25):
they got stuff to do too.
They wanna do stuff.

Jann (26:29):
They need to go do it with a Olodumare in the Gods realm.

Joi (26:33):
Listen, at least they were helping.
He, I don't know

Jann (26:36):
thought that was interesting too though.
Like why is shoe wasn't likesuper like bad for me.
The fact that he like let themdestroy the boats and didn't
report it to Olodumare.
Like, all right, he is not allbad then when he was just being
petty with, Yemoja.

Joi (26:51):
Yeah, true.
It's one of those things you'rejust like, so you're just,
you're just Okay.
Got it.

Jann (26:57):
Yeah,

Joi (26:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Jann (27:01):
it was interesting for sure.
Didn't like diminish it at allfor you though, just being
there.

Joi (27:08):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (27:10):
Yeah.
So anyway, I, I really like thateven though I feel like having
so many Orisha is just likechatting with them.
Um, it was a little weird.
I love all the creatures thatthey had in there.
Like the, fairies, like Issa andthe fairy people.

Joi (27:25):
Mm-hmm.

Jann (27:27):
Say it again?

Joi (27:28):
Jumbos.
Jumbos.

Jann (27:30):
I don't remember a lot like the Orisha names.
I remember, pretty well becauseI've been trying to learn about
Orisha here and there, but themystical creatures like I just
have and Mami Wata I knew about,but the other ones I'm like, I
didn't even know that we hadthis much mythology.
And I'm super interested indiving deeper into that.

Joi (27:49):
I wish you would've come across the sisters, the, the six
other Mami wata because itseemed like they were all on the
same kind of journey and solike, I feel like they should
have been like pretty closeproximity.
I think she came across oneother at the very beginning, but

Jann (28:03):
Yeah, it was only one.
And that's one of the things Ihad about this book too, is I
was expecting it to be a lotmore underwater and I was kind
of really disappointed that itwasn't

Joi (28:13):
But you know,

Jann (28:14):
I wanted to be in the ocean the whole time.
And then, Right at the beginningof the book, she's like, make
sure you stay in human form.
And I'm like, shit.

Joi (28:22):
No, what I did like about that wasn't in the ocean the
whole time is that it, when wehave black characters, they tend
to transform from being black tobeing a frog or to being, you
know what I mean?
Like to being a soul, you know?

Jann (28:37):
Yeah.
But I feel like that stuff likebeing a frog, like that just
means that they're notrepresenting them and their skin
and everything.
Like she was still very muchblack as a mermaid.
So

Joi (28:46):
True.
You're right.
You're right.
Just a thought.

Jann (28:50):
just a thought.
I mean, I get it though.
I get what you're saying.
Um, it was nice that they did alittle reverse swap there, but
just, you know, when you'retalking about mermaids, I wanna
see a mermaid a little bit

Joi (28:59):
I mean, right.

Jann (29:03):
So I was just talking about like, um, You were saying
the Mami Wata, and I was saying,I think they're gonna be in the
sequel, so she's gonna be likeliving underwater.
Yeah.
And I forgot that Orisha's nameactually, now that I like
bragged about how, well, I knowthe, the names.

Joi (29:19):
Oh yeah.
I've read so many books aboutOrisha.

Jann (29:22):
I'm pretty knowledgeable.

Joi (29:24):
hard.

Jann (29:26):
Shut up.
Whatever.
But the black unicorn too thatled her to the fairies.
Do you remember the name of thatone?

Joi (29:37):
No, but I looked it up.
I didn't know what the hell shewas describing.
I was like, what is thiscreature?
But yeah,

Jann (29:45):
I just, I really want them to make it a movie so we can see
them all.

Joi (29:48):
I want them to make a good movie so we can see them all

Jann (29:53):
That's the asterisk.
As long as it's good.

Joi (29:57):
that's right.
If you're not gonna put theeffort into it, don't bother.

Jann (30:03):
So another one of my theories.
So the first theory was thatthey were gonna be underwater.
Didn't happen.
The second theory was that Colawas actually a villain.
Didn't happen.
Ended up being my favoritecharacter.
Now the third theory was likewhen Yemoja was telling her not
to feel too much for any human,I thought it was too obvious

(30:24):
that she was talking about Kola.
So I thought she was gonna runinto her family and that's what
was gonna make her turn into seafoam, you know, cuz she was
trying so hard to remember herfamily.
Like the whole time I was like,she's gonna run into her dad, or
one of her family members andthat's gonna be it.
Like how do you not feel forthem, you know?

Joi (30:44):
Yeah,

Jann (30:45):
But yeah, they were just talking about romance, so that
surprised me.

Joi (30:49):
but yeah, I was like, why was she able to do all of this
on land?
And she could never go backhome.
I was surprised cuz her namewasn't like, it means to come
home or something like that.
I guess

Jann (31:00):
it means follow me home.

Joi (31:02):
yeah, I guess cuz her ocean, the ocean is her home
now.
But still,

Jann (31:06):
I think she didn't remember, like even when she saw
the guy on the boat and she waslike, yeah, that guy has to be
from my village.
Like he's dressed like that.
I remember his like wardrobe.
She still didn't remember thename of the village, and that,
and she was fighting time, likethey were racing this Issun guy
they thought the whole time.
So she didn't really have timeto say, okay, just a sidetrack

(31:27):
real quick, let's go here.
But yeah, for some reason Ithought they were gonna run into
somebody on the boat that theywere on or something, and that
didn't happen.
So yeah, those are my, the threetheories that did not come to
fruition.
How about you?
Was there anything that youthought would happen that didn't
happen?
Or did you predict anything thathappened?

Joi (31:49):
I definitely thought she was gonna go home.
I definitely thought she wasgonna make it back home,
especially cuz her memories weregetting longer, more detailed.
As she was a human longer.

Jann (31:59):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (32:00):
So that's something I really thought, I really hoped
that would come back.
I thought they would run into alot more, or jimbos the white
people.
Portuguese people,

Jann (32:08):
Yeah,

Joi (32:09):
and have it issue with them.
It was like one

Jann (32:12):
too.
And I'm like, that's one of thethings that I liked that they
weren't in it.

Joi (32:16):
exactly.
Yeah.
And then the only other thing Icould think of is just like, I
was trying to picture thegeography of where they were.
So she had to be in the AtlanticOcean at the beginning.
Right.
But she couldn't have been thatfar off, I don't think, because
she was on an island constantly.
Right.
That was warm and then likesunny and all that.

(32:38):
And then when they hit theshore, they went inland for like
maybe half a day on a river andthen walked for a day.
To get to his village and thenhis village was able to get to
the beach.
But that side of Africa is verylike, like steep.
It's like mountains and thenwater.

(32:59):
So I'm just trying to figure outwhere they were.
Basically,

Jann (33:03):
That literally did not occur to me at all, and I have
like absolutely no interest,like

Joi (33:08):
geography is not, not worried

Jann (33:11):
No.

Joi (33:13):
okay.

Jann (33:14):
Like, what are you saying?
Like what are you even sayingright now?

Joi (33:18):
I was like, this doesn't

Jann (33:19):
were thinking about.

Joi (33:21):
You're sitting here saying you can't trust Kola.
And I'm like, first of all, thecliffs, you can't just walk
across to get to the beach.

Jann (33:29):
didn't trust the author like Natasha Bowen is not to be
trusted, is what you weresaying.

Joi (33:35):
I'm saying that she didn't know the geography of Africa,
and I guess, but that's neitherhere nor there, I guess.
But we're also talking aboutOrishas and everything, so.

Jann (33:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's also that.
There were a lot of things likethat that like, uh, definitely
not the geography, but that Iwere expecting that just didn't
come to fruition.
Um, here's a question.
Would you have saved Kola?

Joi (34:07):
I think I would've, there's something of black, black about
being in a situation where, youknow, the slave trade thing is
happening.
You've been a part of it, andyou're like, this is my job.
I'm just gonna get his soul.
Make sure he moves on.
So obviously you care about whathappens to these people, but at
the same time, he's like this.

(34:29):
Why would I let him drown whilehe's looking at me?
That's like I'm part of theissue at that point.

Jann (34:35):
Yeah.

Joi (34:35):
Now, I don't know if I would bring him back to the
island.
I would like hit some driftwood,maybe good luck, but I don't
know.
I don't know.
I don't know.

Jann (34:48):
I dunno.
I dunno.
Yeah, I'm with you.
There's no way I wasn't savingthem.
There is no way I wasn't savinghim, but like, um, I feel like I
would've stick to her originalplan of let's get him off this
island before anyone notices.
Um, once he started throwing atemper tantrum about going back
faster, I would've been like,okay, now you're on your own.

(35:09):
I wouldn't have called, I wouldnot have caught Yemoja like he
asked.
It was just very interesting tome, that whole dynamic.
And I feel like his tempertantrum is exactly why I didn't
trust him, but I don't think Iwas thinking like really, okay,
he's been through like he wasliterally about to be traded
into slavery.

Joi (35:28):
And thrown into the ocean.
I mean, it's one of those thingstoo.
It's just like, I wouldn't havecaught her at all.
It's one of those things whereyou hit your sibling too hard,
you're like, shh, no one elsegotta know about this.
We'll figure it out.
Let's make you a boat realquick.
You can go wherever you gottago, but you can't stay here.

Jann (35:46):
Yeah.

Joi (35:49):
Yeah.
And he had an attitude I lovehow she was hung up on, like,
where's the thank you.
Like I'm risking my life to helpyou.
Like, where's it at?

Jann (35:57):
that's where I was, that's where I was.
I wouldn't have called her.
I, I would've been like, I don'tknow how, but you want, like,
you can either get off theisland or you can stay here and
die.
Which is it?

Joi (36:08):
You can't

Jann (36:08):
he was like

Joi (36:09):
my home.

Jann (36:09):
hidden stuff.
I swear I thought for the lifeof me that he like got caught
trying to trade people and gottraded himself and he was trying
to get back because he wasworried about what they would do
to his siblings since he endedup being a trader.
That was my thought process.
Like, why else does it matter ifyou're a day late?
Like, how about you recover fromalmost dying?

(36:31):
And I feel like she was thinkingthe same thing, like it's an
extra day.
Like you wait till morning, likewhat is the issue?

Joi (36:37):
I thought it was more of just maybe like his village was
raided or something and he hidthem like in a space that wasn't
necessarily safe, but safeenough so they won't get traded.
But it's like, I gotta get backto them.
They're like six.
They can't hunt, they can'tgather their own berries or
whatever.
I gotta make sure that they'recool.
So that's what I was thinking.
Like he hid them somewhere andthey wouldn't survive for a very

(37:01):
long time without'em not sayinghow long?
It's because you remember, whenyou talk about the slave trade,
there were moments when you weresnatched or sold and then kept
in like an area and then sortedand taken onto a ship, and who's
to know how long he sailed foron the ship and then he was
sleep on an island?
Don't know how far, so you justdon't know like how long he's

(37:22):
been away from them either.

Jann (37:25):
Yeah,

Joi (37:26):
yeah, I mean, I'd be person to get back to if someone was
like, Hey, I saved you.
Okay.
Get me home please.
Thanks.
I have

Jann (37:35):
Okay.
I would be like that too.
okay, give me home please.
But.
He didn't say that.
He said, whatever you're tryingto do is not fast enough.
You need to call a God hereimmediately.
Oh, you can't call'em right thissecond.
We gotta wait till tomorrow.
No, you need to call them now.

Joi (37:52):
After

Jann (37:52):
that's a lot.

Joi (37:53):
up too with your wrist off bruise.
I'm like, first of all, I'm notdoing shit else.
It's funny because she was very

Jann (38:02):
without a thank you.

Joi (38:04):
She was very patient with him.
More patient than she was withIssa, that's for sure.

Jann (38:11):
that's what I don't get it.
I mean, I liked Kola too.
He was, ended up being myfavorite, but I wouldn't have
dealt with that

Joi (38:18):
I don't think he was my favorite at any point.
I think he was more just like heis the person that's like, I
have to do this cause I alreadysaved him.
It's one of those things wherejust like, oh look, I found a
helpless animal like a puppy andI don't want a dog, but I can't
put him back out on the street,you know?

Jann (38:37):
I feel like he was so likable after the whole temper
tantrum.
I didn't, I feel like I had moreissues with her character than
Kola.
Like how she was like mad aboutrandom stuff, like the Yemoja
not telling her, like she, sheliterally said I had a temp down
my anger before I answered like,why didn't you tell me this?
It's not her responsibility to,she is a Orisha, you're lucky

(39:00):
you're alive right now.
She made you a mama wate.

Joi (39:03):
Wata.

Jann (39:05):
what did I say?

Joi (39:06):
Mommy Wa,

Jann (39:10):
I But mami wata.
Yeah.
I, I just thought that wasinsane that you're asking a God
to explain her every move toyou.

Joi (39:19):
yeah.
After

Jann (39:20):
know, it is not even like asking her, it is her, you being
mad that she didn't do itpreemptively was crazy to me.

Joi (39:27):
Like Simidele.
She's definitely not a perfectcharacter and she's not even my
favorite character.
She's just the person we'refollowing.
Um, But

Jann (39:36):
Yikes.
I mean, I, I, that's not where Ithought you were going with
that.

Joi (39:41):
but

Jann (39:41):
thought you was just gonna say like, she's not a perfect
character and that's why I loveher.
But she, you said no, we'reshe's just, she's just the one
that's there.

Joi (39:51):
I feel like if I was another Mami Wata and I knew
what was happening, I was like,fucking cidel.
She couldn't just like, we haveone job, you know?
I don't know.
It's just we're following her.
I'm fine with her.
The same thing.
We're following Kola.
I'm fine with him, but I thinkI, I lean more towards liking

(40:12):
her because she is, the MamiWata, because she actually saves
them, because she's actuallygoing to take him back to his
village because she needs therings or whatever.
But, It seems to me Kola wasalso a headache the whole time.
He kept almost dying.
He kept doing just, it wasexhausting.
Basically.
Every time he came to a newscene, I was like, okay, so
how's Kola gonna die this time?

(40:32):
Like, you know,

Jann (40:33):
Yikes.

Joi (40:35):
that's how

Jann (40:35):
List some off for me cuz maybe at missing him, like
obviously he was thrownoverboard.
Not his fault.
What was the second one?
I remember the dragon too, butthe bridge broke.
So not his fault, but what else?

Joi (40:47):
my, that's my thing though, it was never his fault, like the
storm.
And then she had to follow theunicorn to yumbos to see where
he was.
Right.

Jann (40:56):
Yeah,

Joi (40:57):
the hyenas, when he was bitten.
And you already got the dragontoo.
So the hyenas,

Jann (41:04):
everybody was bitten by the hyenas though, which we
haven't.
Okay.
So if Kola wasn't my favoritecharacter, we haven't talked
about the girl Yinka.

Joi (41:16):
Inka, I think.
Yeah.

Jann (41:17):
I couldn't remember her name, but I liked her so much
and I really hope that she comesback in the second book.
I'm really hoping that they likerecognized her as kin again and
didn't bite her.
What do you think?
Do you think she survived?

Joi (41:29):
No, I think she survived, but I don't think we're gonna
see her again.
There would be no reason for usto go back to the island in the
second book.

Jann (41:35):
But maybe there's a third book?

Joi (41:38):
I liked how they were like the werewolves.
They're werewolves with theirhyenas.

Jann (41:43):
Yeah.
I just really wanna see heragain.
I loved her, dedication to beingso strong and being a warrior.
And then it turns out that she'sdescended from this, Werewolf
Warrior Tribe, just seemsamazing.
And I, I really, I she didn'tknow at all.
Like even in the, that time,like, she was like, they said,

(42:04):
are you kin?
And she's like, what, what areyou, what do you mean?
I'm like, kin.
But yeah, I liked her a lot andI don't even, a spinoff would be
great with me.
I would love to hear more abouther story being in this hyena
tribe or whatever it is.
But yeah,

Joi (42:21):
Your team Yinka.

Jann (42:23):
I am, I am, I, I wanna see her again in some capacity,
whatever capacity.

Joi (42:29):
no, I thought that would've been interesting.
So now that I think about it, doyou think that, was she the one
that said that her village waslike raided or something and
everyone was gonna die and themom brought her to that village?

Jann (42:40):
Yeah, I think she said the mom was stranded and was gonna
die, and her dad found the momand brought her back.
But yeah, she didn't knowanything about where she came
from, the village.

Joi (42:51):
gotcha.
Okay.
I'm wondering if that's whenIssun took them to that island
to protect it.

Jann (42:56):
I'm thinking now the Issun is not keeping them there since
he's bound himself, that maybethey'll have some freedom and
we'll see'em that way.
I don't know.
It's hopeful thinking.
I would love to see that wholestory, her like getting
acclimated with them and justgetting freed and Yeah, all of
that.

Joi (43:15):
Oh my gosh.

Jann (43:15):
to see it.

Joi (43:17):
At the end when Issun was pretending to be Kola, I was
like, how do you not see throughthis immediately?
He would never talk to hisbrother and sister like that.
Like, what?
Why's it taking so long?

Jann (43:25):
agree.
Even the fact that he made it upthere first, even though he's
bleeding and stuff.
Like how'd you pull that off?
Uhuh.
That don't make sense.

Joi (43:34):
And you're being super aggressive

Jann (43:36):
So aggressive.

Joi (43:39):
like

Jann (43:39):
even if he wasn't being aggressive, like why does it
matter where I put the ringright now?
That's not helping us at all.
Don't you mean like how do weget outta here?
What do you mean?
Where did I put the ring?
Why is that top of mind,

Joi (43:50):
he's more pressed about the rings than Simidele was.
She's like, we gotta go first.

Jann (43:57):
not to mention this guy, so like quick before he gets
here, what is that gonna do?
Why is that what we're in a rushto do doesn't make any sense.
Yeah.
That was not at all stealthy.

Joi (44:09):
Not at all.
It's

Jann (44:11):
Everyone saw that coming from a mile away, especially
since he was just pretending tobe the other guy.
We know you can change

Joi (44:18):
right?

Jann (44:20):
What's happening.

Joi (44:21):
Hmm.

Jann (44:22):
Okay.
So one other thing I wanted todiscuss.
Um, I saw on TikTok that someonesaid that they wish that the
main characters, so Simi andKola were gender swapped.
And I thought that was aninteresting concept because
first of all, black male mermaidawesome.

Joi (44:39):
Yeah.

Jann (44:40):
And then, also the fact that we're just so used to the
narrative being in America rightnow, in particular with BLM and
everything else, like blackwomen coming to the aid of black
men, that it would be nice tosee the reverse since it's
fantasy.
Like let's just do it.
What are your thoughts on that?

Joi (44:59):
I would love that.
Absolutely.
Gender swapped the shit out ofthat.
Yeah.

Jann (45:05):
So when you say Kola was just getting saved and saved and
saved, like having a black womanas a damsel in distress every
once in a while, instead ofbeing the one to fix everything
and take care of everyone.
I, I feel like I could get intothat.

Joi (45:18):
Especially because it wasn't like he was not

Jann (45:21):
was a damsel distress though.

Joi (45:23):
Yeah, he was.
Absolutely.
He was, but he was like, no, Igotta do this to go get my
brother and sister.
That was constantly his MO,

Jann (45:31):
he had a drive.
Yeah.
And like I said, he was a, hehad a good character.
I love that he kept his word foreverything.
Even when she was like, youdon't have to go with me, just
point me in the right direction.
He's like, no.
I said, I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna do it.
even before he knew his siblingswere safe or not, he was like,
don't just stay with me.
We're doing this, you know?

Joi (45:50):
I kind of think I would like the book even more.
I think would've got a six starfive if it was gender swapped.

Jann (45:57):
I thought that was such a cool idea.
yeah, I.
I feel like that would be coolfor sure.

Joi (46:02):
Yeah.
Who is this TikTok person?
I gotta

Jann (46:05):
I don't know.
We're gonna I'm gonna find itand insert like their name.
But yeah, that was a good, thatwas a good take.

Joi (46:13):
Wow.
I love that.
Yeah.
Oh

Jann (46:17):
Yeah.

Joi (46:19):
Hmm.

Jann (46:20):
All right.
So did the discussion make youlike the book any more or less

Joi (46:26):
I'm still where I'm at.
I'm still at a five out of

Jann (46:29):
still five?

Joi (46:30):
It's more just like, I'm glad I was able to talk to
somebody about it and see theirperspectives from it.
It's just one of those booksthat you have to talk about with
somebody cuz like it was good.

Jann (46:39):
it was good.
It had a lot of good things init.
I just feel like for some reasonit was rushed.
She had it just made it a littlebit longer, did a little bit
more character development andslowed it down a little.
There were so many thingshappening back to back to back
that I couldn't even revel insome of the twists, like the
twins being Orisha.
I feel like they said that andthen immediately just moved on.
Like, how is this not a biggerdeal?

Joi (47:01):
It was that, and then the reveal of Issun being the guy.
Cause I was like, who was thisguy again?
you know, I didn't realize.
I'm like, okay.
Like he was with them the wholetime.

Jann (47:12):
I did not get a clear sense of who all was on their
journey at the end.
Even when the guy went back fromthe bridge, I was like, wait, I
thought, I thought him and theguy that is Issun was like
pretending to be was the sameperson until that happened.

Joi (47:26):
I thought it was four of them all together and not with,
not Issa, but I thought it wasKola, Yinka and then the guy.
That's all I thought it was.

Jann (47:37):
Yeah.

Joi (47:38):
it was just a lot of people

Jann (47:39):
And then even Issa dying, I feel like they spent just as
much time on that as the guygoing across the bridge, you
know, they spent no time on it.

Joi (47:49):
I think it's interesting because in this situation you
still have to move fast.
Like he's gone, he gotta go.
You know, we're still in dangerhere, so that makes sense.
But still damn.

Jann (47:59):
but when Yanka got cut, like, like, um, when she left,
they could have still beenmoving and they like waited for
him to have a whole cry.

Joi (48:08):
Mm-hmm.
Sure.

Jann (48:10):
know, Kola cried and stopped crying and was doing
some other stuff and they werestill sitting there, with Issa
it was like, let's go.

Joi (48:19):
I told him not to come.

Jann (48:24):
I was really hoping we wouldn't say that because I feel
like we were all thinking it.

Joi (48:28):
That's what I

Jann (48:29):
Like he offered absolutely no help after they got there.
To your point,

Joi (48:33):
didn't even walk.

Jann (48:34):
nothing.
He didn't even walk.
Like, what?
And when they said yeah, I wannafight, fight who?
Where you are not only a child,but a fairy child that's even
smaller than a child.

Joi (48:47):
Now let's be realistic here.
You said this is how it's gonnago, you're gonna die.
I did like how,

Jann (48:55):
yeah.

Joi (48:55):
one was off limits for dying either.
I seriously thought that Kolawas going up at the end, and I
was kind of hoping for it justbecause I was just like, This is
realistic.
Y'all just fought.
How many guys, how many outs didyou get?
Kola

Jann (49:08):
How many like times did he heal?

Joi (49:11):
right.
I didn't expect the twins tobring him back with the soul or
anything.
She's I could get the soul andlike, and keep it with me or
whatever, but that'd be fuckedup, you know?
I'm like, yeah, it would be, lethim go.
I feel like that would've been amajor character development for
her to just bring the twins backand then go to the ocean again.
And that's it.
Like you did what you could doway above and beyond what you

(49:32):
could do.
And you saved the twins too, soyour journey's over, you did
what you're supposed to do,

Jann (49:39):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I, I'm not gonna lie, Iwas thinking that same thing,
like he could have died and itwould've been fine because
obviously someone is off limitsfor dying.
You know, Kola,

Joi (49:49):
right?

Jann (49:50):
I can't count how many times he got saved and healed,
and so saved and healed.

Joi (49:54):
I can, I can count them many ways.
I don't know.

Jann (49:59):
unless you can give me a number right now, I don't want
to hear it.

Joi (50:03):
I don't know, Kola, it's just it's one of those things
where it's just you're watchinga kid show and you know, certain
people are safe.
They will never, and I feel likeit doesn't put much of the, you,
you included, you added morepeople.
But once the main characters aresafe, it's the, what's it
called?
Like the, the threshold forbeing in danger isn't there

(50:24):
anymore.
I'm like,

Jann (50:25):
Oh, yeah,

Joi (50:26):
it out of this.
it resets at the beginningagain, you know,

Jann (50:29):
yeah, yeah.
I would've enjoyed it.
I feel like there's a lot morethings that she can explore
without Kola and the futurebooks, since she's, you know,
she's underwater, she's amermaid.
Like I feel like he could havedied at the end.

Joi (50:40):
absolutely the mission was accomplished.
Mm-hmm.

Jann (50:43):
yeah, exactly.
Like you did what you set out todo you, yeah.

Joi (50:48):
And just like how the little mermaid, like the, the
real one where it's like sheactually turned to sea foam at
the end.
I feel like with her just.
Jumping off the cliff orwhatever, into the water to the
darkness, and then him dying.
That would've been sad, but itwould've been like, damn, that
was

Jann (51:02):
A good ending.
Yeah.

Joi (51:05):
Because then even the new book could follow the twins
going home or could follow her,you know?
It could be either, either way.

Jann (51:13):
Mm-hmm.

Joi (51:14):
and it could have been realistic, like, okay, the twins
gotta figure out how to get backand use their like God powers to
figure it out.
You know?
I don't know the endingabruptly, I was listening to it
when I was working last nightand I had to rewind it a couple
times, was that the end?
And then the prologue came up,

Jann (51:34):
Did that just happen?

Joi (51:36):
bitch, she just jump in that water.
I thought she was gonna just notgo to the deep or whatever.
I thought she was actually goingto, I had a feeling that he told
her to come to the bottom, but Iwas like, if, if she was gonna
send the message to, oh, Ola,Ari, I can't get it.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so disrespectful.
I'm, I'm trying really hard.
But, yeah.

(51:57):
if she was gonna send themessage that he was still there
after being there for so longand his punishment's over, I
thought that he was gonna let itgo.
I thought the deal was, tell himabout me.
To set me to let me go, youknow?
I didn't think like, okay, wellI'm just stuck here, you know?

Jann (52:11):
I thought she was gonna offer to tell him.
So I thought it was silly of herto say, let him set the terms.
I feel like if she had offeredthat, maybe he wouldn't have
thought of the other thing.
but when he whispered it, I knewthat that's what, like, okay, so
he wants her to be down there orto Trade places with him.
I wasn't sure which, but I knewshe was gonna be down there.

Joi (52:31):
I was just like, why wouldn't she just tell him?
Like, why didn't he ask her totell him that, that he's there,
you know, that she's going forthe rings to go send messages
directly to the, the Olo Maari.

Jann (52:44):
Olodumare.

Joi (52:45):
Olodummare like, why wouldn't you just like, I'm
gonna tell him that you're stillhere and that Issun didn't say
anything.
Maybe Issun can trace spaces sothat you can be free and that he
can suffer his consequences thathe caused because he hasn't been
sending

Jann (53:00):
used to being down there.
Now.
Maybe he wants to sh like hewants to see the suffering.

Joi (53:05):
I mean, you can be down there if you want to.
You don't have to be chaineddown there, you know what I
mean?
And you don't have to chain myass down there.
It's cold bitch.

Jann (53:14):
she did talk a lot at the beginning about how cold she was
in the ocean.

Joi (53:18):
yeah, I

Jann (53:18):
That made me a little sad

Joi (53:20):
I was like, you should, like, it shouldn't feel like
good and warm.
Like I didn't think that being aa Mami wata would, you would be
a warm-blooded creature with noblubber.

Jann (53:32):
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yeah.
I, I wouldn't expect her to bewarm-blooded.
It's like a reptile, right?
With a fish.
Or the fish, like you pull up afish, it's cold, like you still
feel the cold.
It just doesn't kill you.

Joi (53:45):
I figure it would be like when she transformed, she's
fully human.
She can feel the sun andeverything, but when she's a a
Mami wata, she'd be verycomfortable in the water.
I didn't think you would need tohave a blanket while you
swimming around,

Jann (53:57):
Well, she didn't say she needed a blanket.
She just said she missed thewarmth.
You know, like she wasn'tsaying, I'm uncomfortable, I'm
cold.
She just said, I'm cold and Imiss being warm, like feeling
sun on my skin.

Joi (54:10):
I hate being cold so much.
I think I just took thatpersonally like, yeah, that

Jann (54:13):
Okay.

Joi (54:17):
Hands off.
I would never wanna be a mermaidif I was always cold.
What kind of shit is that?

Jann (54:23):
you are so ridiculous.

Joi (54:24):
is like a genie wish.
Like, yeah, you can be amermaid, but you're gonna be
uncomfortable in the ocean fordamn.
Damn, I can't even get aSnuggie.

Jann (54:34):
You always have those terms, like can't just be
blissful.
Something shitty has to happenas well.

Joi (54:41):
I mean, I guess, I mean, I thought that the thing that
wasn't gonna be blissful wasthat like, I don't know, you
can't walk no more.
Like that's another thing.
Every time she transformed backinto the mermaid, into a human,
it's her legs.
Um, it sounded painful.
I didn't like it when she waslike, oh, yeah, I can feel the

(55:01):
skills like coming through myskin and I can feel my legs
tearing apart or getting backtogether.
Mm-hmm.

Jann (55:10):
I didn't read it as painful.
That's interesting.
I read it as noisy.

Joi (55:15):
That's a little

Jann (55:16):
reason I read it as noisy is because when, um, I forget,
Yenta saw her coming up and shesaw the end of her
transformation.
I was like, yeah, there's nohiding in that.
She saw all that.

Joi (55:26):
Right.

Jann (55:28):
She heard it.
She saw it.
Yeah.

Joi (55:30):
What would you

Jann (55:31):
you're exposed.

Joi (55:32):
if, if you were like on that ship and you're just like,
oh yeah, she's a mermaid, sodon't worry about it.
are you saying, Kola?
whatcha talking about?

Jann (55:42):
Well this is also the same world where um, Shango, comes
and throws lightning at yourboat and you're like, cool down.
We're fine.
And then you just have a chatafter.
So

Joi (55:52):
I mean, I guess it's just it's one of those things where
you're just like, like imaginejust being a regular human going
through this stuff, being nextto a Mami wata, seeing these
other gods and goddesses knowingthat your twin brothers and
sisters and you're just normal.
You're just like, I feel likeMaribel.

Jann (56:13):
Oh, they are?
Yeah.
Right.
To be fair, they are from thevillage and everybody knows that
the two twins are Orisha, somaybe that's why they're used to
it,

Joi (56:21):
May, but the thing about them is that they're not like
fully functioning gods.
They're just like, we're here.
So our area,

Jann (56:28):
to it all, you know.

Joi (56:30):
I guess

Jann (56:33):
It is like the cartoon Hercules where no one was
surprised when they saw Phil teetees.
Like they know stuff like thatexist.

Joi (56:40):
true in the Yobo, but yeah.
But they hit Issa for so longand they hid her identity too.
Like they didn't say that therewas a mermaid trade going on
either or a

Jann (56:52):
They did though.
They did about the mermaids.
Remember she said the onefisherman saw her and she
immediately saw the greed in hiseyes, like he was gonna catch
her and sell her.

Joi (57:03):
True.
Who said that?
Was that Yemoja?

Jann (57:06):
No, that was, um, Simidele said that she said the one time
that she was seen was by afisherman.

Joi (57:13):
maybe because it's like the culture too, This is their
culture.
These are their God andguidance.
So they know about it.
And even when they asked Kola,Yemoja asked Kola about like,
Hey, what does your bub allowknow about me?
What do they know about my MamiWata?
And he was able to say that shehad seven daughters and all the,
yeah.
So maybe that's it.
Maybe it's their culture.
So maybe it wasn't thefisherman's culture.

(57:34):
It was like, oh shit, I fuck gotMermaid.
I'm gonna be so rich,

Jann (57:38):
rare.
It's not like you see themeverywhere.
You know?
Like if you saw Mami Wata, evenif you knew they exist and
there's only seven of them inexistence, of course you're
gonna like, not of course.
But if you're that type ofperson, you'll be shocked.
But then you're gonna say, yeah,how can I make money off of
this?
Is what she, and she also, no, Idon't think most people would.
But I'm saying if you're gonnabe that person that's constantly

(58:02):
think about how to make money,you don't care about Who you're
hurting in the meantime.
Like if you see something rare,you're gonna wanna sell it,

Joi (58:09):
True.

Jann (58:10):
But

Joi (58:11):
oh

Jann (58:12):
some people, some people,

Joi (58:16):
yeah.

Jann (58:17):
and you keep interrupting me and I keep forgetting what I
was gonna say.

Joi (58:20):
I'm sorry.

Jann (58:21):
No, it's not okay.

Joi (58:24):
I don't accept your apology.

Jann (58:27):
yeah, that's what she was.
She also said um, once shefigured out that they knew about
her, she said that her secondfear of telling people one was
the greed in the fisherman'seyes, and the second was just
not being accepted.
Like having them ostracized herbecause of it.
So there's probably that fear aswell.

Joi (58:45):
I think it's interesting when she, the second half of the
book, she kept saying I'm nothuman.
I'm not like them anymore.
I can't be a part of thisanymore.
I'm like, if that's the case,you did all of this stuff, like
what's to stop you from doing itagain?
Just going to your village andmaking some pepper soup and
coming back and doing your job.
You know, I don't understand.

(59:06):
What was the issue of her notseeing her family anymore?
Is it that they want, want herto stay?
Or like, if you can explain torandom people that your Mami
wata, I think you can explain toyour, your parents like, Hey, I
got stolen by the MBOs.
I escaped.
Yemoja saved me because Yemojabirthed me.
So mom, you know what the hellI'm talking about.

(59:28):
So why can't you do

Jann (59:30):
a lot of that too is at the beginning they were saying
you need to distance yourselffrom your life now.
And I still feel like eventhough she didn't see her
family, the, she said, if youfeel too much for any human,
you're gonna turn into sea foam.
You know, like they forget Iwould assume so if you feel too
much for any human.
So I'd assume like themforgetting when they're in the

(59:51):
water is like a defensemechanism almost.
Cuz you can't feel for humansanymore.
Like you're not part of thatworld

Joi (59:59):
but isn't you saving their souls?
The same thing as feeling forhumans.

Jann (01:00:04):
not for one particular human.
You just have love for humanity,I guess.

Joi (01:00:08):
I guess, I don't know.
That doesn't make sense to me,but at the same time, it does
make sense.
You know what I mean?
I doubt that they really age oranything too.
So that could be hard to seeyour family eventually aging and
dying.
I don't know.

Jann (01:00:23):
yeah, that could also be a defense mechanism.
They have a job to do.
They can't just be going offseeing their family people's
souls need saving.

Joi (01:00:31):
And that's true, but she only had to do one soul a week.
I would've been traveling like,oh, Nick, this the Ter Sea.
It's so warm.
Ooh, it's so cold in Alaska.
Oh,

Jann (01:00:43):
You would be sold first.
Joi.
You'd be seen by so many peopleand sold off immediately because
you're doing too much.
That's why.
All right.
Final thoughts?
Any final thoughts that youwanna get out there?

Joi (01:00:59):
I think that everyone should get this book if you
haven't gotten it already.
I feel like this is a goodbeginning to African culture,
and just like me starting my ownresearch and looking back and
see if we can find anything.
We did our ancestry test bothfrom West Africa generally,
broadly, you know, that's all wecould really

Jann (01:01:19):
there like that.
I'm just kidding.

Joi (01:01:26):
So it just makes me wanna kinda like know a little bit
more about the area that we'refrom and what we were taking
from, and I'm glad to see someof this more to mainstream.
It's good.
I love it.

Jann (01:01:37):
Yeah,

Joi (01:01:37):
This is definitely a new favorite and hopefully I can
pass it on to youngergenerations in our family too,
so they can read it so theydon't have to only have the
redheaded mermaid, but.

Jann (01:01:46):
All right.
How many final thoughts do youhave, girl?

Joi (01:01:49):
It is a good opener too when they have, is it Chloe or
Haley?
That's gonna be the new littlemermaids.
That's also nice.
So,

Jann (01:01:57):
think it's Chloe.
Yeah, I agree.
I'm glad that this came outbefore the movie.
I, anyway, my final thoughts, itjust, I, I agree.
I feel like it's a really goodbook, a really good intro.
If you've never like read aboutAfrican Orishas or anything like
that, you, it's only a couple ofOrishas in here, um, like five
or six.

(01:02:17):
But it, it's a good intro andyou get to know their roles a
little bit.
And yeah, it was a fun read forsure.
I would definitely reread it andI'm looking forward

Joi (01:02:26):
How many final thoughts are you gonna have?
Just askin.

Jann (01:02:31):
Let's not act like you didn't talk for like 10 minutes
straight.
All right, so that wraps up Skinof the Deep.
So our next book that we'regoing,

Joi (01:02:44):
skin of the deep.

Jann (01:02:48):
so that wraps Skin of the Sea, and I wanna go ahead and
introduce our next book, ifthat's okay.
Joi,

Joi (01:02:58):
Thanks Natasha Bowen for giving us such a good book.
That's, I loved it.
Mm-hmm.

Jann (01:03:03):
Absolutely wonderful job.
Can't wait to read the secondone.
Um, and we're not actually gonnaread that next week.
Next week we're going to bereading the Wedding Date by
Jasmine Guillory, which is aromance.
So I'm gonna give you a quicksynopsis of that and then we'll
call it a day.
Thank you.
A groomsman.
And his last minute guests areabout to discover if a fake date

(01:03:23):
can go the distance in A fun andflirty debut novel.
Agreeing to go to a wedding witha guy she gets stuck with in an
elevator is something AlexaMonroe wouldn't normally do, but
there's something about DrewNichols that's too hard to
resist.

Joi (01:03:38):
How

Jann (01:03:38):
I'm just

Joi (01:03:39):
caught up to go to a wedding in a, okay, I'm sorry.
Keep going.

Jann (01:03:44):
What?

Joi (01:03:44):
Like how do you get caught up to go to a wedding with some
random person?
You in an elevator.
You only people I meet inelevators?

Jann (01:03:51):
Well, they got stuck on the elevator.
I assume that they had it.
You know what?
We're gonna read the book andwe're gonna find out.
Well, that's all that we havefor today.
So,, until next time, Joi, doyou wanna tell them where they
can find us.

Joi (01:04:06):
Yeah.
You can find us on Instagram,Twitter, and TikTok at Black
Girl Reads Podcast.
The Blacks, spelled with BLK.
So, BLK Girls reads podcast.

Jann (01:04:19):
Twitter, TikTok and Instagram.
Perfect.

Joi (01:04:22):
And tell us what you think about the book.
Tell us what you think about us.
Only nice things.

Jann (01:04:27):
Yeah.
Oh, I almost forgot.
So if you want a chance to winyour own copy of Skin of the
Sea, go ahead and leave us areview.
Five star, hopefully leave us areview, tell us what you think,
and we're gonna pick a winnerout of everyone who leaves a

(01:04:48):
review, and send you your brandnew copy of Skin of the Sea, not
Skin of the Deep.

Joi (01:04:55):
That's right.
That's right.

Jann (01:04:59):
All right.
Well thanks everyone.
See you next time.

Joi (01:05:02):
See ya.