June 6, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode Jim Chapman brings you inside the wire and the role of a Classifications Officer at Louisiana State Penitentiary by sitting down with former Angola Classifications Officer and award winning host of Unspeakable, Kelly Jennings. Kelly details her stint working at the prison and gives an interesting perspective from a female point of view.
#bloodyangolapodcast #prison #louisiana
Chapters
02:57 KJ’s Journey Begins
07:32 First Day Insights
12:36 Navigating Authority and Respect
15:48 Challenges of Professionalism
18:37 Mistakes and Lessons Learned
21:35 Unexpected Encounters with Inmates
23:37 The Decision to Leave
25:00 Life Beyond Bloody Angola
You can listen to Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast By Kelly Jennings here: https://www.unspeakablethepodcast.com
#bloodyangolapodcast #prison #louisiana
Chapters
02:57 KJ’s Journey Begins
07:32 First Day Insights
12:36 Navigating Authority and Respect
15:48 Challenges of Professionalism
18:37 Mistakes and Lessons Learned
21:35 Unexpected Encounters with Inmates
23:37 The Decision to Leave
25:00 Life Beyond Bloody Angola
You can listen to Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast By Kelly Jennings here: https://www.unspeakablethepodcast.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
M h.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
A wall Street line, shackle change, Oh do someome gird
it's calling my name. There is no mercy and it's
been a tentery juice as the hill Stream game Wrangle three.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Come in by me to die inside these walls, inside
the wild.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Hadn't went no girl as I'm hey everyone, and welcome
(01:32):
back to Bloody and Gola, a podcast one hundred and
forty two years in the making, the complete story of
America's bloodiest present. I'm Jim Chapman, and we have a
little surprise for you today. Look and Gola. One of
the most intriguing things about Louisiana State Ben and Gentry
are the people that have worked there or have worked
there in the past. I have a guest with me today.
(01:55):
You're very familiar with her. She's done multiple episodes of
Bloody and Gola in the past. She also has her
own podcast, Unspeakable, a true crime podcast by Kelly Jennings.
And today I'm going to go over a little bit
with her of her experience getting introduced in Gola, working
in Gola, the things she did there. It's gonna be
(02:17):
a really interesting podcast. But first of all, welcome to
Bloody and Gola.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Kelly, thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's weird calling you Kelly. I usually call you kJ yeah,
which I invented, and it's incidentally.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Someone called me kJ a few weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
We were somewhere and I just kept looking because I
didn't hear it, because keep you know, in real life,
you don't call me kJ.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Some some people do. Now some people do. But my
daughter tapped me on the shoulder and she's like, Mom,
you're being rude. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I know you.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I know you've done this show several times in the past,
and I want to talk about today your personal experience
with Louisiana State Penitentiary. And I guess we'll start off
with how the interest got in your brain. Now, for
those of you lestening that maybe have not met Kelly,
(03:10):
it's hard for people to wrap their brain around anyone
saying I want to go work at the largest prison
in the United States of America, one of the most historic,
but also a reputation for a lot of danger. There's
primarily lifers at Louisiana State Bendentiary. You don't get locked
(03:30):
up there for running red lights. And so you were
a young female when you started correct.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, I think I was twenty No, yeah, I was
in my early twenties, early very early twenties, twenties.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And at some point you made a decision and you said,
I think I want to go work in prison.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I did, okay, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
How does this happen?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Okay, So I'll let me back up real quick.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
So I went to college at LSU, and I did
not know what I wanted to do. I had resigned
myself that I was gonna have to be a kindergarten teacher,
because that my logic then was, hey, you know, more
than a kindergartener, you probably could teach him.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm serious. That's give you that maybe I could do that. Well.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I took a my very first criminal justice class, criminology
class with a professor named Yoshinori Como.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And I was enamored.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I did not know that that was such a class.
Every word he said, I hung on. I literally read
the textbook, which makes me a total nerve. But anyone's
gone to college knows you're not going to sit down
and actually read the textbook. You're real like hit some
highlight moments. If you'ven buy the book. Yeah this, Mama.
I sat down and I ate it up.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Was it was it the teaching style of that. It was.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
It was his teaching style along with just the content.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I was very very he knew what he was talking about.
As matter of fact, he this kind of off topic. But
he told me he was he was from Korea. I
think if I had that wrong, don't don't come at me.
But he said, y'all, y'all need to get your minds right.
And you had this accent, you know, and he said,
because y'all talk on the phone. Soon the years are
coming this text text text, You'll only be texting people
(05:07):
you don't know in America yet, you will only be texting.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And I laughed at him. I'm like, I'm not texting.
Look at us now. The man was cool. Ast crap.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
But anyway, shout out to him if he's still a professor.
But he Once I took that class, that was it.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It was on. All I did was watch forensic files
and court TV.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
So my mom one day told me, she said, why
are you in school taking all these education classes when
all you do is love crime? I said, well, what
am I gonna do, mamma, get a degree in crime?
And she said, yes, it's stupid, and I was like, oh,
my bad, mama. So she really got me into these,
you know, into the mix of criminal justice. My senior year,
I was sitting in a juvenile justice class and a
(05:43):
warden came in from Angola. Her name is Kathy Fontnau
and she is tiny but mighty, and she just started
talking and I was fixated. I looked around the classroom too,
I'll never forget this, and the other students, some of
them were kind of like just looking down, looking at
their phone, whatever, and I'm like hanging on.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Every word that she said.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
So I started asking her questions about the rodeo because
I had been to it and I wanted to know
things about it. She looked at me, she said, what's
your name? I said Kelly. She said I want to
talk to you after class. I said okay, and I
kind of took that as like be quiet, so I
was like, all, dang, you know, well after class, sure enough,
she said, you're really interested, aren't you. I said, Oh,
I'm like, I'm like sickly interested. I've always loved prison
(06:25):
and crime and all that she said, how about you
come out to Angola and I will give you a
personal tour. And I thought I had just been invited
to the White House. I just you know, this is
the greatest thing. And she made good on her word
a few days late, because I graduated just a few
weeks like two weeks later, three weeks later, and she
took me up on it, and I showed up. She
got me in her car, took me on a personal
tour the facility for someone. She brought me in the
(06:46):
dorms and she told me, she said, if you want
a job, you've got one. Really yeah, And I said,
I'll be here tomorrow or whenever you want me to
be here.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
My mama cried, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Wow. Interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
She said, you're good to my mom.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
You're gonna die, I said, Mama, I mean everyone can't
die every day.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, but look and looking back now, you're a parent.
I'm a parent. I get that. I get it. I
would be freaking the f out if my kid was like, yeah,
I want to go working and go I mean, I
think it'd be cool, and I would accept it, obviously,
I was. I first thought was they'll kill you.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
That's what I want.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Free.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
You think you are some kind of a badass.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
When I was, uh, you know, I'm twenty.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I was five foot four, maybe one hundred and ten pounds,
but a ball of dynamite, you know, rolled up in there,
and I'm.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Glad it did. I loved it.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So that first day, let's talk about that. So you
get hired eventually, and you get hired for what.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
So my job was what's called an ARDC specialist one.
So you have to have a degree to I guess
qualify classification.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's what the job was that I got. So classification
is going to be.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Someone that has a little bit more education than the
average SAT.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Bit you have to have a college degree.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Yeah too, And so you know it's a little bit.
I have a higher pay grade. I'm not acting like
it's a warden or anything, obviously, it's it's it's still
I would consider it entry level, but a little bit
higher than that. And so my job was that when
inmates would come in, I had to determine housing custody.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And quarters of the inmates do that.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
So I was young, A lot of it was watching
other people and trying to figure out what the hell
they were doing. But this would be so you would
have to look at what's called their jacket. Their jacket
is their file. Basically you flip it open.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
They do.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
It's called aun and then you're looking and you're trying
to determine what type of crime do they have, where
are they from, how old are they?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, everything is taken.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Totality of circumstances taken in Now, obviously, if you're a
death row inmate, you're.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Going to death row su Hell, yeah, that's easy.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
But if you were really young, if you were under
five foot seven and you're white, and you're a non
violent offender, maybe you're three times in, you're out three
strikes and you're out type thing or drug dealing or
something like that, you're gonna be in a bind behind
prism walls because you are going to be a target
(09:04):
for sexual aggression and so things like that. You would
look at them and say, all right, Padna, I'm gonna
put you. So you have options. You We have dorms
that are open. We have I say we I'm in
no way affiliated with Angola, just to be fair, but anymore,
we have working cell blocks wcb's how it would be written,
working cell blocks. We have cell blocks there's lockdown, there's
(09:25):
admin seg, there's all these different options. Majority of your inmates,
if they're not really young, if they weren't seventeen something
like eighteen, they're gonna go to a working cell block scenario.
And so what that is is where you're in a
cell block to sleep, to eat your lunch. But other
than that, they wake you up at the buck crack
(09:46):
of dawn. Get on your clothes. You're gonna walk out.
They're gonna do count, which is taking attendance. They're gonna
make you do what it's called dousen it up, which
means you get into two lines that are right next
to each other. You're gonna walk out the gate. There's
going to be officers on horseback and they're going to
escort you to the field. It's a working cell block,
and so you're going to walk out with your tool
(10:07):
whatever it's a hoe or whatever it is that you
might need, swing blade or whatever. They walk you out
to the field. You're going to pick your crops, work
the fields. They'll march you back and you go into
your cell to eat your lunch, and then they march
you back out. Yeah, do your more work. The rest
of your work and then they march you back in.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Interesting, and so you basically classified these individuals and it
was in an effort to maybe keep them safe as
well to an extent. I mean, you know you don't
want to put let me give you an example. If
you're a if you're a guy, you got a goala,
you're fifty five years old to get you don't necessarily
(10:44):
look like a threw, right, although anybody in there, yeah right,
it looks to some Yeah, to some extent, But do
you take aging the consideration.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Yeah, and you would also take okay, maybe not on paper,
so I know there's someone who's gonna jump on my
throomly no out of it. But if I'm looking at
you and let's say, let's say you murdered somebody, Okay,
anybody's capable of anything on any day. We have people
that are in wheelchairs, that are very sickly that can
still pull a trigger and kill somebody. However, the constitution
still provides that I need to Once you're in our custody,
(11:15):
we still have an obligation to protect you from obvious.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Concerns.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
And so maybe you come in and you're elderly and
you're frail, and you're in a wheelchair. Well, I'm not
going to be inclined to put you with some young
buck who's going to be able to manipulate, harass, and
hurt you for obvious reasons because you can't defend yourself.
Now you know, that's worst case type scenario I'm talking.
I mean, most people are going to just have to
(11:42):
bucket out.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, you're in prison.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You're in prison. You better learn to But I can
tell you too.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
And again, things have changed a lot since I've been there,
and so like camp see I believe is now like
a release camp type thing where we have people that
come in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
That used to be that if you.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Weren't doing twenty years or more, you weren't really coming
at angle. It's not that way anymore. But we used
to have the main prison and then there's camps all
around it. The main prison is divided into the east
yard and the west yard, and we used to call
the west yard the wild side. The east yard was
more of like your old timer's been down there for
a while. They're not necessarily old, but they've been there
long enough to know the rules. They've calmed down a
(12:17):
little bit. They don't want as much drama and all that.
So we'd put those young bucks that they all, I'm
coming to peruse them a fight. Okay, well you're going
on the west side, the wild side, yeah, and then
the other ones we kind of segregated off to the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Ones just wanted to do their time.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I like to think of it kind of like freshmen
in high school versus seniors. There's a distinct difference between them.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Interesting, So you start that first day, Tell me, do
you remember what your first day was like? Do you
remember nerves?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Do you remember I did not have any nerves. I
think it was maybe young and dumb.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I was more nervous about I didn't know what I
was doing. Yeah, and I don't like that. Yeah, but
I've quickly figured out that, you know, an inmate can
and they will help you if you don't if you
need information, But sometimes that can come at a cost,
and so you have to just kind of learn how
to navigate that. You know, you don't want to put
(13:12):
all your trust into this inmate who's going to be
very kind and very helpful and tell you all these
nice things and blah blah blah when you're young. Okay,
today I would tell someone to just get somewhere. But
when you're very young and you're I'm twenty years old
and I've got these sixty year old In all honesty,
I've got these fifty and sixty year old men that
are coming to me, and I'm running likes, you know,
doing disciplinary boards and things like that. There was an
(13:34):
element of these are my elders. And if you're not
from the South, maybe it doesn't hit you that way.
But I had to consciously remember I cannot say yes
sir to you, and that that's been ingrained in me
since I was a kid. Yes, sir and no, sir,
But you can't do that in prison. I mean, you're
the authority there. That was a learning curve, and I
think that that was not necessarily addressed as it probably
(13:57):
should be for young people coming into prison settings. They
tell you about the games that are gonna be played,
and you don't trust inmates, you know, blah blah blah blah.
But there's a learning curve with your manners and yes sir,
no sir. Let me tell you a little story. I
think've told it before, but I'll tell I'll make it brief.
But we do these these boards periodically where the inmates
you do call outs. They come line up and then
you call them in and you do it like in
(14:19):
a quick assessment on them. It's required, and it's like,
did you have a job on the street, what was
your conviction?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Blah blah blah blah, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Well this I walked out on the walk and I
had my paperwork and I said, mister Brown, mister Brown,
and no inmate came up, but a lieutenant did on
the tier and he snatched me in the room and
he said, don't you ever call an inmate mister Brown.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
They you are the authority.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
And I was like, well, and he's like, no, no,
you need to learn this and someone should have taught
you this. Did you ever call an inmate mister that compromises,
you know, the authority complict?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
I said, hold on.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
No, hear me. Now, you're not gonna be on my
you know, blah blah. I said, his name is mister.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
He said what?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
And I turned the paperwork around. I said his first
name is miss. He's like, oh shit, oh that's wild,
it's weird.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But his first name was mister, I said. So I
walked out there. I was like inmate Brown, you know,
because I but everybody you know, Brown's a common name.
That's how I was called the first name.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But shit, wow, yeah, that lieutenant felt like an ass.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
He's like, oh my bad, my bad. I was like, yeah,
your bad.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, okay, So what were the Okay, let me ask
you this. You're you're young female, you know pretty thanks?
What in that situation? What was the danger for you? Like,
(15:40):
did they tell you you can't wear perfume? You can't.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, so part of the rule book.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
You get a rule book, and they're very clear, there's
no reason to be wearing perfume. There's no reason to
have a ton of makeup on. There's no reason to
have flashy jewelry.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
There you ought.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Classification too, is not a uniformed position. It's like more
of a professional level. Not that I don't want to
say they're not profession We don't saying they don't issue
a uniform to me.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I wore slacks, I wore dress shirts.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And things like business attire.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, you start wearing really tight clothing, we have an issue.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Did they have people that did not tell it?
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, they had a few people that I couldn't understand,
like they would wear stiletto heels, and I'm thinking the
fun like I have.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
To walk over the made on crazy girl I wear.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I know, I wore boots like I had these le
I had these leather boots.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
They were tall to wearing like barking stocks.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Well, I had to have good walking shoes. You don't
know how much walking that is. That's eighteen thousand acres,
you know. So I wore these same boots almost every day.
They were nice, professional looking, but I wore slacks, so
you didn't know how tall they were or anything.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And I walked the sole off of those shoes.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
I had to have them replaced. I did not understand
the stiletto heels. I think you're asking and there's going
to be people. How your dressed does not indicate, Okay,
you're in prison.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
You're in prison men who ain't been with women in
some of them in twenty years.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yes, so no, behind prison bars look nice, look professional.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
But there's a difference between you know, looking professionally looking free.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Looking professional look.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
So yeah, I don't think I knew that I was
pretty that enough that it affected my day in day out.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I mean, I just was me. I got dressing on
with the work.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, Yeah, well luck and these guys are thirsty in there.
Right there, there's wild buck Wilde. Ain't a lot of
minks been around that shit. As a matter of fact,
I've interviewed some former inmates who had spent many years
behind bars, and one of the things that they said
blew their mind when they got out of prison. One
(17:38):
of the first things ain't notice was a smell of
a woman. They said, you know, you go with Walmart.
One of them described to me he went in Walmart,
a woman walked past him and she had perfume on.
He said, it blew me away. And he said the
reason it did is because I hadn't smelled perfume in
thirty years. Yeah, and this woman walks by me smelling
so good. I mean, it's a little weird. But but
(18:01):
for these guys, they aren't used to that, So I
get it. You could have a major problem in prisons
if you're you know, springing on Georgie.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
There's a way to be professional and also firm, firm
but fair, you know, And and looks. My looks should
have no in part on my job. And I you know,
I guess I didn't think of it that way. Yeah,
I just I went to work.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, I get it. Uh, what was the Can you
think of a mistake you made that was like a
big mistake when you were there, something that looking back
on it, you're like, wow, I'm lucky that Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Well no, no, I do remember one time I accidentally
walked in the camp with my cell phone in my pocket.
You're not allowed to bring or then. I don't know
what the rules are now, but the wardens have theirs.
But I mean I should not have had my phone.
And when I tell you, I felt like I had
just committed the biggest a truck.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I could not wait to get out.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I turned around.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Really, I was like, hi, you know, I was like
trying to run to get out of the gates and
go put my phone up.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That I mean, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Yeah that didn't.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
But I can tell you too that even when you
do everything right, bad things happen. So I tried to
help out. One time there was a woman that worked
with me, and the inmates had been complaining that she
wasn't making her rounds like she was supposed to. So like,
if you're in a cell block, you know you can't
get out to go get help from classification so classification
does things like helps with your visitation list, or if
(19:30):
you need to add an attorney to your phone list,
or a friend or a family, or if they need
a special visit. Maybe grandma's dying and they would like
to see grandma on it and there's not enough time
for them to come on the special or maybe grandma
or mom, sister whatever it is from out of state,
and they're only here for these days, and so those
aren't visitation days. But please, can we work something out.
(19:51):
I haven't seen my sister in twenty years, and so
again their inmates. But they're people, and that's my job.
My job is not to judge them behind bars. My
job is to do my job. So there was some
complaints that this woman wasn't making her rounds, and now
that I don't work there, I'll say it's probably true.
She was not a very nice woman either, So I said,
you know what I feel like getting out.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's nice outside.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
I went and made my rounds on my tears that
I was supposed to, and then I decided I would
just go clean up and go make it extra rounds
on her tears for her. So I went in, Hey,
what you need hand? It out paperwork whatever. Well, shortly
after that, I got a lawsuit filed against me and
buy an inmate. It's called an arp and ARAPA administrative
remedy procedure, but they it never made it to QUART
(20:33):
or anything because it was so ludicrous.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, but I was so young. It stressed me out.
He sued me. He was like for millions of dollars
what because he.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Said that I was not making my rounds consistently and
I only showed up once that month. Well, bitch, the
reason I was down there once that month is I'm
not your damn officer. I was doing extra so things
like that would often.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And they've got nothing but time, and they called lost
them nothing to file a lawsuit because there are indigent
laws in place that pay for them to file lawsuits.
So they can file one hundred and a month and
they really could care less. It's funny to them that
you would have to take five minutes to actually deal
with it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Now, if I would have been walking that prison day,
I'd be like, cool, lawsuit bro, have a nice day.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah, I got to be like, get out of my face.
But yeah, I can't think of any big you know, huge.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Well, the SELFI thing's interesting. Let me ask you this.
Did you ever meet an inmate and you're thinking, I
can't believe this guy's in here. Yes, yeah, a lot
of them.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
One that sticks out to me and will always stick
out to me he's out now, though, is an inmate
named Joseph Greco. And he was so kind and his
kindness did not strike the way other manipulative kindness struck.
I met his mama at the rodeo. Yeah, he had
he made furniture and he was a big guy, skiller
(22:00):
at the time. He had a big must I think
he had a big mustache, just a big guy. And
I remember him saying, oh, he had kind of a
coon ass accent, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh, miss Kelly, I want you to meet my mom.
And I was like, okay, cool, whatever.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So I walk over and there's this little old lady
and my family's Boudreau's. Okay, we got the coon ass
of all up in our family. And she was one too,
and she said, oh, can I hug you?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Please? Can I hugg you? Take such good care of
my son.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You just so kind and kind. People don't come along
often like this, and blah blah blah blah, blah, And
it just touched my heart because you know, I didn't
know this lady from Adam, and then I got to
meet him, and some people are gonna go, well, oh,
you were kind of close. No, it just so happened
at the rodeo that the family gets to be there,
and he got locked up before his daughter was even born.
And I got to meet his daughter that day too,
(22:45):
and she was an adult and pregnant with her grandbaby
or with his grandbaby yea. And so he I don't
know the true story one hundred percent. I'd have to
go look it up. From what I understand, I think
he got in a bar fight and killed somebody. And
the Joe Greco I knew was calm. He was older though,
think about it, he'd been down a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You know now looking back on it, it's like him
being me now, yeah, versus when I was twenty.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
You're a different person.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, some people are, one hundred percent. I mean you,
even your hardest people. You know, you're different at forty
than you were at twenty.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
But I'll tell you too, I met.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Sixty than you were at forty.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I met some at sixty who had the same mentality
that they did when they were twenty, and it was
like arrested development. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Like you're sixty years old and I'm having a discipline.
You get your life to go?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, good point. Well, at some point you decide to leave,
and Gola tell me about that. What made that decision?
Speaker 5 (23:46):
So it was a hard one because I really liked
my job. I loved my job. But I got a
phone call randomly. I was outside of Main Prison eating
lunch in my car and I got a phone call
from someone or a message to call someone in Livingston
Parish from the school board, and I was like.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
What in the hell?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So I called, and they were looking for somebody that
would be interested in starting a pilot program out in
Livingston Paris. They wanted to do a criminal justice program,
and so they had called Angola to ask did they
have anybody, but they needed someone who had a master's degree. Well,
I think I was the only at that time. I
was the only non I guess administrative level person that
(24:24):
had one. And so they took the number and sent
it to me and I called, and it just so happened.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I lived in Livingston Parish.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I was making a hell of a commute every day,
A long commute. That's how much I liked to my
job though. I'll tell you something. I loved it, and
so I just made the hard decision that that's what
I was going to do. Was closer to my house,
it was a better fit. And don't you know that
lasted seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I ain't that something, And you know it's important to
mention during your I guess ten year at Louisiana State
Benetton Tree also helped do the tours.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
People that would come in then at one point. And
how was that? You liked that?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Loved it.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Obviously I like talking on this on podcast, So telling
the stories and all of that was just so exciting
to me.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Were they any any escapes or anything while
you were there that you can recall?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Not?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
While I was working there.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
There was an escape while I was on a field
trip with students there, and they promptly kicked our ass out.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I remember you telling me, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
That was crazy.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He was a road walker, was his job, and so
basically he walked, you know again, eighteen thousand acres he
walked the roads, picked up trash whatever, and he just
walked away. He never made it for count and they
found him like a day or two later, laid up
in the late It been a like a creek bed
or a or a ditch or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And who was your warden when you were there?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The main warden cap it was Warden Kane.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Wow, probably the most famous of all.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
I liked Warden Kane. I thought he was cool dude.
And uh, he wrote a book called Caine's Redemption. I
used to teach out of it in my class. He's
the only warden that had ever seen the electric chair.
He may have seen a hanging an electric chair, and
you're like, what, he didn't see a hanging.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It was something about when he was young. I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
But he was the only one that had seen the
electric chair and multiple types of executions.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, well, and very heavily credited with bringing religion
to the forefront of Louisiana State Penitentiary, which then in
turn changed a lot of the culture inside of that prison.
A lot of that credited towards Burl Caine and the
things that he did. Of course, we've done a podcast.
(26:36):
We've got a three part episode way back there somewhere
with all about Burl Caine and his contribution to that prison.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
And they send a thing out one day and we're
like to come to the main chapel, Main Prison Chapel
at three o'clock for a treat or something like that.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And I was like, well, let me go check that out.
And it was Aaron Neville. Oh yes, I got to
hear eron Nevill sing.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I did the I did an episode on him and
the Neville Brothers when they did a concert there. Did
a whole episode on that somewhere back in back in
the archives if you will.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
That was cool. You know, you don't expect that.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
But also if people know the Ski Mask Rapist, which
was a big ski mask raper, he was an issue
for me because I was working. They moved me to
Camp Ja, which is no longer a thing, but that
was like the worst camp. It's like the lockdown, bad bad, bad,
bad bad stuff there, and they moved me there. I
think only worked there two days, three days. But the
ski Mask Rapist they said he was being seen too
(27:29):
frequently in my shadow basically like as I was walking,
and so they were like, yeah, they were like, we're
moving you.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
I said, Okay, so I got moved back.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
An interesting thing I've done an episode on him. And
interesting thing about him is he was kind of a player.
He was kind of a you know, he was not
an uh. He was a good looking guy for sche
mask rapists.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I never I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I don't know how to say it, but well, he
was a reputation very charming guy and someone that liked
to drive flashy cars when he was on the loose.
So go back and listen to that facts if you,
if you get the opportunity. I got one last question
for you. So you mentioned that you ate lunch in
(28:09):
your car, but did you ever was that your thing?
Or did you ever eat in the cafeteria that the
prisoners cooked the feed?
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean I just happened to
be in my car because I was doing something.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I didn't go out to my CARDI lunch, but they
but they also used to have a place you could
go eat.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Lunch there that was cooked by free people too, at
the when they had the.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Golf course there.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
But yes, I did eat the food from the camp
so at Camp D when I was there, they always
had chocolate chip cookies and then every now and then
they had these crab cakes. I know that sounds crazy,
but they did, and I freaking I know right, I
freaking loved it. And so I would call the I'd
call down there and I'd be like, hey, get me
a tray, and they say, what you want? I almost
(28:52):
some cookies and I want some crab cakes. And they'd
be like, you got it. And I'd be sitting there
like a little fat ass cookies.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And crab And I was going to ask you what
your favorite meal to get? Well, you answered that I
can tell you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
I can tell you this too, that them boys could
cook those greens. Now, I'm telling you, and I did.
I never liked greens, but.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I turned right there and yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, And so I'm not gonna lie. I mean, I
ain't scared. I'll try me some food.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Look, one time, one time I went in in the
in the cafeteria and so you know my personalities, I'm
a goober whatever. And so I walk in there and
I can hear them singing. The inmates are cooking. I
can hear them singing some old blues or something in.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
The in the back. And I was like, hey, hey,
y'all know who sings that?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
And they were like, oh yeah, man, yeah, and they
turned into like punching each other, like what what was
his name?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
What was his name?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
And they go back and forth and I'm just sitting
there waiting and then he said the dame and I said, yeah, well,
let's let him do it. And I was just and
thens were like they started like ragging on the guy,
and I'm looking back on I probably would have don those.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Well, thank you so much for coming on. I just
want to you know, people are really intrigued about life
inside of that prison, not only from the the eight standpoint,
but people that have worked there at some point in
their lives. And we've had several people on. Thank you
for coming on sharing some of your experience. Everyone. Check
out Unspeakable with True Crime podcast by Kelly Jennings. If
(30:13):
you have not had the pleasure to do so, you
can find out wherever you listen to podcasts, just search
Unspeakable Kelly Jennings. And until next time for Bloody and Gola,
I'm your host, Jim Chapman, a podcast one hundred and
forty two years of making the complete story of America's
bloodiest prison, Peace.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
A Wall Street line, Shackle Chain. It's calling by name.
There is no mercy, and it's been a tentery Jess,
(31:11):
as the Hillstream game rangold three.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I'm in be by me to die inside these walls,
inside the wise, And.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
When nose I know it's so.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Bloody.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Anglebody, angle
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And b
M h.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
A wall Street line, shackle change, Oh do someome gird
it's calling my name. There is no mercy and it's
been a tentery juice as the hill Stream game Wrangle three.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Come in by me to die inside these walls, inside
the wild.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Hadn't went no girl as I'm hey everyone, and welcome
(01:32):
back to Bloody and Gola, a podcast one hundred and
forty two years in the making, the complete story of
America's bloodiest present. I'm Jim Chapman, and we have a
little surprise for you today. Look and Gola. One of
the most intriguing things about Louisiana State Ben and Gentry
are the people that have worked there or have worked
there in the past. I have a guest with me today.
(01:55):
You're very familiar with her. She's done multiple episodes of
Bloody and Gola in the past. She also has her
own podcast, Unspeakable, a true crime podcast by Kelly Jennings.
And today I'm going to go over a little bit
with her of her experience getting introduced in Gola, working
in Gola, the things she did there. It's gonna be
(02:17):
a really interesting podcast. But first of all, welcome to
Bloody and Gola.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Kelly, thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's weird calling you Kelly. I usually call you kJ yeah,
which I invented, and it's incidentally.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Someone called me kJ a few weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
We were somewhere and I just kept looking because I
didn't hear it, because keep you know, in real life,
you don't call me kJ.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Some some people do. Now some people do. But my
daughter tapped me on the shoulder and she's like, Mom,
you're being rude. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I know you.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I know you've done this show several times in the past,
and I want to talk about today your personal experience
with Louisiana State Penitentiary. And I guess we'll start off
with how the interest got in your brain. Now, for
those of you lestening that maybe have not met Kelly,
(03:10):
it's hard for people to wrap their brain around anyone
saying I want to go work at the largest prison
in the United States of America, one of the most historic,
but also a reputation for a lot of danger. There's
primarily lifers at Louisiana State Bendentiary. You don't get locked
(03:30):
up there for running red lights. And so you were
a young female when you started correct.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, I think I was twenty No, yeah, I was
in my early twenties, early very early twenties, twenties.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And at some point you made a decision and you said,
I think I want to go work in prison.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I did, okay, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
How does this happen?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Okay, So I'll let me back up real quick.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
So I went to college at LSU, and I did
not know what I wanted to do. I had resigned
myself that I was gonna have to be a kindergarten teacher,
because that my logic then was, hey, you know, more
than a kindergartener, you probably could teach him.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm serious. That's give you that maybe I could do that. Well.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I took a my very first criminal justice class, criminology
class with a professor named Yoshinori Como.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And I was enamored.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I did not know that that was such a class.
Every word he said, I hung on. I literally read
the textbook, which makes me a total nerve. But anyone's
gone to college knows you're not going to sit down
and actually read the textbook. You're real like hit some
highlight moments. If you'ven buy the book. Yeah this, Mama.
I sat down and I ate it up.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Was it was it the teaching style of that. It was.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
It was his teaching style along with just the content.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I was very very he knew what he was talking about.
As matter of fact, he this kind of off topic. But
he told me he was he was from Korea. I
think if I had that wrong, don't don't come at me.
But he said, y'all, y'all need to get your minds right.
And you had this accent, you know, and he said,
because y'all talk on the phone. Soon the years are
coming this text text text, You'll only be texting people
(05:07):
you don't know in America yet, you will only be texting.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And I laughed at him. I'm like, I'm not texting.
Look at us now. The man was cool. Ast crap.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
But anyway, shout out to him if he's still a professor.
But he Once I took that class, that was it.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It was on. All I did was watch forensic files
and court TV.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
So my mom one day told me, she said, why
are you in school taking all these education classes when
all you do is love crime? I said, well, what
am I gonna do, mamma, get a degree in crime?
And she said, yes, it's stupid, and I was like, oh,
my bad, mama. So she really got me into these,
you know, into the mix of criminal justice. My senior year,
I was sitting in a juvenile justice class and a
(05:43):
warden came in from Angola. Her name is Kathy Fontnau
and she is tiny but mighty, and she just started
talking and I was fixated. I looked around the classroom too,
I'll never forget this, and the other students, some of
them were kind of like just looking down, looking at
their phone, whatever, and I'm like hanging on.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Every word that she said.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
So I started asking her questions about the rodeo because
I had been to it and I wanted to know
things about it. She looked at me, she said, what's
your name? I said Kelly. She said I want to
talk to you after class. I said okay, and I
kind of took that as like be quiet, so I
was like, all, dang, you know, well after class, sure enough,
she said, you're really interested, aren't you. I said, Oh,
I'm like, I'm like sickly interested. I've always loved prison
(06:25):
and crime and all that she said, how about you
come out to Angola and I will give you a
personal tour. And I thought I had just been invited
to the White House. I just you know, this is
the greatest thing. And she made good on her word
a few days late, because I graduated just a few
weeks like two weeks later, three weeks later, and she
took me up on it, and I showed up. She
got me in her car, took me on a personal
tour the facility for someone. She brought me in the
(06:46):
dorms and she told me, she said, if you want
a job, you've got one. Really yeah, And I said,
I'll be here tomorrow or whenever you want me to
be here.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
My mama cried, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Wow. Interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
She said, you're good to my mom.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
You're gonna die, I said, Mama, I mean everyone can't
die every day.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, but look and looking back now, you're a parent.
I'm a parent. I get that. I get it. I
would be freaking the f out if my kid was like, yeah,
I want to go working and go I mean, I
think it'd be cool, and I would accept it, obviously,
I was. I first thought was they'll kill you.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
That's what I want.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Free.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
You think you are some kind of a badass.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
When I was, uh, you know, I'm twenty.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I was five foot four, maybe one hundred and ten pounds,
but a ball of dynamite, you know, rolled up in there,
and I'm.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Glad it did. I loved it.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So that first day, let's talk about that. So you
get hired eventually, and you get hired for what.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
So my job was what's called an ARDC specialist one.
So you have to have a degree to I guess
qualify classification.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's what the job was that I got. So classification
is going to be.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Someone that has a little bit more education than the
average SAT.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Bit you have to have a college degree.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Yeah too, And so you know it's a little bit.
I have a higher pay grade. I'm not acting like
it's a warden or anything, obviously, it's it's it's still
I would consider it entry level, but a little bit
higher than that. And so my job was that when
inmates would come in, I had to determine housing custody.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And quarters of the inmates do that.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
So I was young, A lot of it was watching
other people and trying to figure out what the hell
they were doing. But this would be so you would
have to look at what's called their jacket. Their jacket
is their file. Basically you flip it open.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
They do.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
It's called aun and then you're looking and you're trying
to determine what type of crime do they have, where
are they from, how old are they?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, everything is taken.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Totality of circumstances taken in Now, obviously, if you're a
death row inmate, you're.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Going to death row su Hell, yeah, that's easy.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
But if you were really young, if you were under
five foot seven and you're white, and you're a non
violent offender, maybe you're three times in, you're out three
strikes and you're out type thing or drug dealing or
something like that, you're gonna be in a bind behind
prism walls because you are going to be a target
(09:04):
for sexual aggression and so things like that. You would
look at them and say, all right, Padna, I'm gonna
put you. So you have options. You We have dorms
that are open. We have I say we I'm in
no way affiliated with Angola, just to be fair, but anymore,
we have working cell blocks wcb's how it would be written,
working cell blocks. We have cell blocks there's lockdown, there's
(09:25):
admin seg, there's all these different options. Majority of your inmates,
if they're not really young, if they weren't seventeen something
like eighteen, they're gonna go to a working cell block scenario.
And so what that is is where you're in a
cell block to sleep, to eat your lunch. But other
than that, they wake you up at the buck crack
(09:46):
of dawn. Get on your clothes. You're gonna walk out.
They're gonna do count, which is taking attendance. They're gonna
make you do what it's called dousen it up, which
means you get into two lines that are right next
to each other. You're gonna walk out the gate. There's
going to be officers on horseback and they're going to
escort you to the field. It's a working cell block,
and so you're going to walk out with your tool
(10:07):
whatever it's a hoe or whatever it is that you
might need, swing blade or whatever. They walk you out
to the field. You're going to pick your crops, work
the fields. They'll march you back and you go into
your cell to eat your lunch, and then they march
you back out. Yeah, do your more work. The rest
of your work and then they march you back in.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Interesting, and so you basically classified these individuals and it
was in an effort to maybe keep them safe as
well to an extent. I mean, you know you don't
want to put let me give you an example. If
you're a if you're a guy, you got a goala,
you're fifty five years old to get you don't necessarily
(10:44):
look like a threw, right, although anybody in there, yeah right,
it looks to some Yeah, to some extent, But do
you take aging the consideration.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Yeah, and you would also take okay, maybe not on paper,
so I know there's someone who's gonna jump on my
throomly no out of it. But if I'm looking at
you and let's say, let's say you murdered somebody, Okay,
anybody's capable of anything on any day. We have people
that are in wheelchairs, that are very sickly that can
still pull a trigger and kill somebody. However, the constitution
still provides that I need to Once you're in our custody,
(11:15):
we still have an obligation to protect you from obvious.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Concerns.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
And so maybe you come in and you're elderly and
you're frail, and you're in a wheelchair. Well, I'm not
going to be inclined to put you with some young
buck who's going to be able to manipulate, harass, and
hurt you for obvious reasons because you can't defend yourself.
Now you know, that's worst case type scenario I'm talking.
I mean, most people are going to just have to
(11:42):
bucket out.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, you're in prison.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You're in prison. You better learn to But I can
tell you too.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
And again, things have changed a lot since I've been there,
and so like camp see I believe is now like
a release camp type thing where we have people that
come in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
That used to be that if you.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Weren't doing twenty years or more, you weren't really coming
at angle. It's not that way anymore. But we used
to have the main prison and then there's camps all
around it. The main prison is divided into the east
yard and the west yard, and we used to call
the west yard the wild side. The east yard was
more of like your old timer's been down there for
a while. They're not necessarily old, but they've been there
long enough to know the rules. They've calmed down a
(12:17):
little bit. They don't want as much drama and all that.
So we'd put those young bucks that they all, I'm
coming to peruse them a fight. Okay, well you're going
on the west side, the wild side, yeah, and then
the other ones we kind of segregated off to the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Ones just wanted to do their time.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I like to think of it kind of like freshmen
in high school versus seniors. There's a distinct difference between them.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Interesting, So you start that first day, Tell me, do
you remember what your first day was like? Do you
remember nerves?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Do you remember I did not have any nerves. I
think it was maybe young and dumb.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I was more nervous about I didn't know what I
was doing. Yeah, and I don't like that. Yeah, but
I've quickly figured out that, you know, an inmate can
and they will help you if you don't if you
need information, But sometimes that can come at a cost,
and so you have to just kind of learn how
to navigate that. You know, you don't want to put
(13:12):
all your trust into this inmate who's going to be
very kind and very helpful and tell you all these
nice things and blah blah blah when you're young. Okay,
today I would tell someone to just get somewhere. But
when you're very young and you're I'm twenty years old
and I've got these sixty year old In all honesty,
I've got these fifty and sixty year old men that
are coming to me, and I'm running likes, you know,
doing disciplinary boards and things like that. There was an
(13:34):
element of these are my elders. And if you're not
from the South, maybe it doesn't hit you that way.
But I had to consciously remember I cannot say yes
sir to you, and that that's been ingrained in me
since I was a kid. Yes, sir and no, sir,
But you can't do that in prison. I mean, you're
the authority there. That was a learning curve, and I
think that that was not necessarily addressed as it probably
(13:57):
should be for young people coming into prison settings. They
tell you about the games that are gonna be played,
and you don't trust inmates, you know, blah blah blah blah.
But there's a learning curve with your manners and yes sir,
no sir. Let me tell you a little story. I
think've told it before, but I'll tell I'll make it brief.
But we do these these boards periodically where the inmates
you do call outs. They come line up and then
you call them in and you do it like in
(14:19):
a quick assessment on them. It's required, and it's like,
did you have a job on the street, what was
your conviction?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Blah blah blah blah, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Well this I walked out on the walk and I
had my paperwork and I said, mister Brown, mister Brown,
and no inmate came up, but a lieutenant did on
the tier and he snatched me in the room and
he said, don't you ever call an inmate mister Brown.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
They you are the authority.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
And I was like, well, and he's like, no, no,
you need to learn this and someone should have taught
you this. Did you ever call an inmate mister that compromises,
you know, the authority complict?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
I said, hold on.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
No, hear me. Now, you're not gonna be on my
you know, blah blah. I said, his name is mister.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
He said what?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
And I turned the paperwork around. I said his first
name is miss. He's like, oh shit, oh that's wild,
it's weird.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But his first name was mister, I said. So I
walked out there. I was like inmate Brown, you know,
because I but everybody you know, Brown's a common name.
That's how I was called the first name.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
But shit, wow, yeah, that lieutenant felt like an ass.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
He's like, oh my bad, my bad. I was like, yeah,
your bad.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, okay, So what were the Okay, let me ask
you this. You're you're young female, you know pretty thanks?
What in that situation? What was the danger for you? Like,
(15:40):
did they tell you you can't wear perfume? You can't.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, so part of the rule book.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
You get a rule book, and they're very clear, there's
no reason to be wearing perfume. There's no reason to
have a ton of makeup on. There's no reason to
have flashy jewelry.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
There you ought.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Classification too, is not a uniformed position. It's like more
of a professional level. Not that I don't want to
say they're not profession We don't saying they don't issue
a uniform to me.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I wore slacks, I wore dress shirts.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And things like business attire.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, you start wearing really tight clothing, we have an issue.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Did they have people that did not tell it?
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, they had a few people that I couldn't understand,
like they would wear stiletto heels, and I'm thinking the
fun like I have.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
To walk over the made on crazy girl I wear.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
I know, I wore boots like I had these le
I had these leather boots.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
They were tall to wearing like barking stocks.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Well, I had to have good walking shoes. You don't
know how much walking that is. That's eighteen thousand acres,
you know. So I wore these same boots almost every day.
They were nice, professional looking, but I wore slacks, so
you didn't know how tall they were or anything.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And I walked the sole off of those shoes.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
I had to have them replaced. I did not understand
the stiletto heels. I think you're asking and there's going
to be people. How your dressed does not indicate, Okay,
you're in prison.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
You're in prison men who ain't been with women in
some of them in twenty years.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yes, so no, behind prison bars look nice, look professional.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
But there's a difference between you know, looking professionally looking free.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Looking professional look.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
So yeah, I don't think I knew that I was
pretty that enough that it affected my day in day out.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I mean, I just was me. I got dressing on
with the work.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, Yeah, well luck and these guys are thirsty in there.
Right there, there's wild buck Wilde. Ain't a lot of
minks been around that shit. As a matter of fact,
I've interviewed some former inmates who had spent many years
behind bars, and one of the things that they said
blew their mind when they got out of prison. One
(17:38):
of the first things ain't notice was a smell of
a woman. They said, you know, you go with Walmart.
One of them described to me he went in Walmart,
a woman walked past him and she had perfume on.
He said, it blew me away. And he said the
reason it did is because I hadn't smelled perfume in
thirty years. Yeah, and this woman walks by me smelling
so good. I mean, it's a little weird. But but
(18:01):
for these guys, they aren't used to that, So I
get it. You could have a major problem in prisons
if you're you know, springing on Georgie.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
There's a way to be professional and also firm, firm
but fair, you know, And and looks. My looks should
have no in part on my job. And I you know,
I guess I didn't think of it that way. Yeah,
I just I went to work.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, I get it. Uh, what was the Can you
think of a mistake you made that was like a
big mistake when you were there, something that looking back
on it, you're like, wow, I'm lucky that Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Well no, no, I do remember one time I accidentally
walked in the camp with my cell phone in my pocket.
You're not allowed to bring or then. I don't know
what the rules are now, but the wardens have theirs.
But I mean I should not have had my phone.
And when I tell you, I felt like I had
just committed the biggest a truck.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I could not wait to get out.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I turned around.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Really, I was like, hi, you know, I was like
trying to run to get out of the gates and
go put my phone up.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That I mean, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Yeah that didn't.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
But I can tell you too that even when you
do everything right, bad things happen. So I tried to
help out. One time there was a woman that worked
with me, and the inmates had been complaining that she
wasn't making her rounds like she was supposed to. So like,
if you're in a cell block, you know you can't
get out to go get help from classification so classification
does things like helps with your visitation list, or if
(19:30):
you need to add an attorney to your phone list,
or a friend or a family, or if they need
a special visit. Maybe grandma's dying and they would like
to see grandma on it and there's not enough time
for them to come on the special or maybe grandma
or mom, sister whatever it is from out of state,
and they're only here for these days, and so those
aren't visitation days. But please, can we work something out.
(19:51):
I haven't seen my sister in twenty years, and so
again their inmates. But they're people, and that's my job.
My job is not to judge them behind bars. My
job is to do my job. So there was some
complaints that this woman wasn't making her rounds, and now
that I don't work there, I'll say it's probably true.
She was not a very nice woman either, So I said,
you know what I feel like getting out.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's nice outside.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
I went and made my rounds on my tears that
I was supposed to, and then I decided I would
just go clean up and go make it extra rounds
on her tears for her. So I went in, Hey,
what you need hand? It out paperwork whatever. Well, shortly
after that, I got a lawsuit filed against me and
buy an inmate. It's called an arp and ARAPA administrative
remedy procedure, but they it never made it to QUART
(20:33):
or anything because it was so ludicrous.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, but I was so young. It stressed me out.
He sued me. He was like for millions of dollars
what because he.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Said that I was not making my rounds consistently and
I only showed up once that month. Well, bitch, the
reason I was down there once that month is I'm
not your damn officer. I was doing extra so things
like that would often.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And they've got nothing but time, and they called lost
them nothing to file a lawsuit because there are indigent
laws in place that pay for them to file lawsuits.
So they can file one hundred and a month and
they really could care less. It's funny to them that
you would have to take five minutes to actually deal
with it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Now, if I would have been walking that prison day,
I'd be like, cool, lawsuit bro, have a nice day.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah, I got to be like, get out of my face.
But yeah, I can't think of any big you know, huge.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Well, the SELFI thing's interesting. Let me ask you this.
Did you ever meet an inmate and you're thinking, I
can't believe this guy's in here. Yes, yeah, a lot
of them.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
One that sticks out to me and will always stick
out to me he's out now, though, is an inmate
named Joseph Greco. And he was so kind and his
kindness did not strike the way other manipulative kindness struck.
I met his mama at the rodeo. Yeah, he had
he made furniture and he was a big guy, skiller
(22:00):
at the time. He had a big must I think
he had a big mustache, just a big guy. And
I remember him saying, oh, he had kind of a
coon ass accent, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh, miss Kelly, I want you to meet my mom.
And I was like, okay, cool, whatever.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So I walk over and there's this little old lady
and my family's Boudreau's. Okay, we got the coon ass
of all up in our family. And she was one too,
and she said, oh, can I hug you?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Please? Can I hugg you? Take such good care of
my son.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You just so kind and kind. People don't come along
often like this, and blah blah blah blah, blah, And
it just touched my heart because you know, I didn't
know this lady from Adam, and then I got to
meet him, and some people are gonna go, well, oh,
you were kind of close. No, it just so happened
at the rodeo that the family gets to be there,
and he got locked up before his daughter was even born.
And I got to meet his daughter that day too,
(22:45):
and she was an adult and pregnant with her grandbaby
or with his grandbaby yea. And so he I don't
know the true story one hundred percent. I'd have to
go look it up. From what I understand, I think
he got in a bar fight and killed somebody. And
the Joe Greco I knew was calm. He was older though,
think about it, he'd been down a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You know now looking back on it, it's like him
being me now, yeah, versus when I was twenty.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
You're a different person.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, some people are, one hundred percent. I mean you,
even your hardest people. You know, you're different at forty
than you were at twenty.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
But I'll tell you too, I met.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Sixty than you were at forty.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I met some at sixty who had the same mentality
that they did when they were twenty, and it was
like arrested development. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Like you're sixty years old and I'm having a discipline.
You get your life to go?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, good point. Well, at some point you decide to leave,
and Gola tell me about that. What made that decision?
Speaker 5 (23:46):
So it was a hard one because I really liked
my job. I loved my job. But I got a
phone call randomly. I was outside of Main Prison eating
lunch in my car and I got a phone call
from someone or a message to call someone in Livingston
Parish from the school board, and I was like.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
What in the hell?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
So I called, and they were looking for somebody that
would be interested in starting a pilot program out in
Livingston Paris. They wanted to do a criminal justice program,
and so they had called Angola to ask did they
have anybody, but they needed someone who had a master's degree. Well,
I think I was the only at that time. I
was the only non I guess administrative level person that
(24:24):
had one. And so they took the number and sent
it to me and I called, and it just so happened.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I lived in Livingston Parish.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I was making a hell of a commute every day,
A long commute. That's how much I liked to my
job though. I'll tell you something. I loved it, and
so I just made the hard decision that that's what
I was going to do. Was closer to my house,
it was a better fit. And don't you know that
lasted seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I ain't that something, And you know it's important to
mention during your I guess ten year at Louisiana State
Benetton Tree also helped do the tours.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
People that would come in then at one point. And
how was that? You liked that?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Loved it.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Obviously I like talking on this on podcast, So telling
the stories and all of that was just so exciting
to me.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Were they any any escapes or anything while
you were there that you can recall?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Not?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
While I was working there.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
There was an escape while I was on a field
trip with students there, and they promptly kicked our ass out.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I remember you telling me, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
That was crazy.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He was a road walker, was his job, and so
basically he walked, you know again, eighteen thousand acres he
walked the roads, picked up trash whatever, and he just
walked away. He never made it for count and they
found him like a day or two later, laid up
in the late It been a like a creek bed
or a or a ditch or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And who was your warden when you were there?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The main warden cap it was Warden Kane.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Wow, probably the most famous of all.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
I liked Warden Kane. I thought he was cool dude.
And uh, he wrote a book called Caine's Redemption. I
used to teach out of it in my class. He's
the only warden that had ever seen the electric chair.
He may have seen a hanging an electric chair, and
you're like, what, he didn't see a hanging.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It was something about when he was young. I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
But he was the only one that had seen the
electric chair and multiple types of executions.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, well, and very heavily credited with bringing religion
to the forefront of Louisiana State Penitentiary, which then in
turn changed a lot of the culture inside of that prison.
A lot of that credited towards Burl Caine and the
things that he did. Of course, we've done a podcast.
(26:36):
We've got a three part episode way back there somewhere
with all about Burl Caine and his contribution to that prison.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
And they send a thing out one day and we're
like to come to the main chapel, Main Prison Chapel
at three o'clock for a treat or something like that.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And I was like, well, let me go check that out.
And it was Aaron Neville. Oh yes, I got to
hear eron Nevill sing.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I did the I did an episode on him and
the Neville Brothers when they did a concert there. Did
a whole episode on that somewhere back in back in
the archives if you will.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
That was cool. You know, you don't expect that.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
But also if people know the Ski Mask Rapist, which
was a big ski mask raper, he was an issue
for me because I was working. They moved me to
Camp Ja, which is no longer a thing, but that
was like the worst camp. It's like the lockdown, bad bad, bad,
bad bad stuff there, and they moved me there. I
think only worked there two days, three days. But the
ski Mask Rapist they said he was being seen too
(27:29):
frequently in my shadow basically like as I was walking,
and so they were like, yeah, they were like, we're
moving you.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
I said, Okay, so I got moved back.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
An interesting thing I've done an episode on him. And
interesting thing about him is he was kind of a player.
He was kind of a you know, he was not
an uh. He was a good looking guy for sche
mask rapists.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I never I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I don't know how to say it, but well, he
was a reputation very charming guy and someone that liked
to drive flashy cars when he was on the loose.
So go back and listen to that facts if you,
if you get the opportunity. I got one last question
for you. So you mentioned that you ate lunch in
(28:09):
your car, but did you ever was that your thing?
Or did you ever eat in the cafeteria that the
prisoners cooked the feed?
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean I just happened to
be in my car because I was doing something.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I didn't go out to my CARDI lunch, but they
but they also used to have a place you could
go eat.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Lunch there that was cooked by free people too, at
the when they had the.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Golf course there.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
But yes, I did eat the food from the camp
so at Camp D when I was there, they always
had chocolate chip cookies and then every now and then
they had these crab cakes. I know that sounds crazy,
but they did, and I freaking I know right, I
freaking loved it. And so I would call the I'd
call down there and I'd be like, hey, get me
a tray, and they say, what you want? I almost
(28:52):
some cookies and I want some crab cakes. And they'd
be like, you got it. And I'd be sitting there
like a little fat ass cookies.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And crab And I was going to ask you what
your favorite meal to get? Well, you answered that I
can tell you.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
I can tell you this too, that them boys could
cook those greens. Now, I'm telling you, and I did.
I never liked greens, but.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I turned right there and yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, And so I'm not gonna lie. I mean, I
ain't scared. I'll try me some food.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Look, one time, one time I went in in the
in the cafeteria and so you know my personalities, I'm
a goober whatever. And so I walk in there and
I can hear them singing. The inmates are cooking. I
can hear them singing some old blues or something in.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
The in the back. And I was like, hey, hey,
y'all know who sings that?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
And they were like, oh yeah, man, yeah, and they
turned into like punching each other, like what what was
his name?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
What was his name?
Speaker 5 (29:38):
And they go back and forth and I'm just sitting
there waiting and then he said the dame and I said, yeah, well,
let's let him do it. And I was just and
thens were like they started like ragging on the guy,
and I'm looking back on I probably would have don those.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Well, thank you so much for coming on. I just
want to you know, people are really intrigued about life
inside of that prison, not only from the the eight standpoint,
but people that have worked there at some point in
their lives. And we've had several people on. Thank you
for coming on sharing some of your experience. Everyone. Check
out Unspeakable with True Crime podcast by Kelly Jennings. If
(30:13):
you have not had the pleasure to do so, you
can find out wherever you listen to podcasts, just search
Unspeakable Kelly Jennings. And until next time for Bloody and Gola,
I'm your host, Jim Chapman, a podcast one hundred and
forty two years of making the complete story of America's
bloodiest prison, Peace.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
A Wall Street line, Shackle Chain. It's calling by name.
There is no mercy, and it's been a tentery Jess,
(31:11):
as the Hillstream game rangold three.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I'm in be by me to die inside these walls,
inside the wise, And.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
When nose I know it's so.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Bloody.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Anglebody, angle
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And b
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