February 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Did you know being an excellent listener is a way to practice great boundaries?
It’s hard as hell to do, with a human ego standing right in the way…but it’s also the skill with the single biggest payoff.
Listening as a boundary tool always surprises people when they hear it for the first time. Until a few seconds later…when they have a lightbulb moment.
Great listening makes the space between two people clear, instead of muddy.
When we listen to someone without argument, disagreement, or judgement and instead reflect back what we’re hearing; we hold up a mirror that lovingly keeps them accountable to what they’re sharing. We keep the space between us clear, until it’s time for us to share. And this keeps us more accountable to our own words as well.
Great listening reverses a triggered nervous system, bolsters empathy and connection, and ultimately gives each person we’re in relationship witn the one thing that they want most.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- How being a great listener = having great boundaries
- How to keep clarity around “what’s yours and what’s mine” during disagreements
- How listening keeps us, and others accountable
- How listening moves us out of fight or flight and into empathy
- What to do when we don’t agree…(this might surprise you!)
- Learn why we letting others have their feelings and experience is the golden ticket for us to have our own experience too
- Why being the better listener is worth it, every. Single. Time.
If I could give the world a gift, and just download every human with one skill, it would be to listen to understand others across differences.
Truly listening to understand someone is truly seeing them. Listening is loving. And that’s just sexy.
All of us just want to be heard and understood. In order to experience that, we need to hear and understand.
So let’s hold hands and go first.
You and me.
Let’s listen first.
Mentioned in this episode:
How to connect with Marie:
- On the Web | The Local Bloom
- Instagram: @the.bloom.coach
- All Things Marie on LinkTree
JOIN THE BLOOM ROOM!
We'll take all these ideas and apply them to our lives. Follow me on Instagram at @the.bloom.coach to learn more and snag a spot in my group coaching program!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Bloom your Mind Podcast, where we take
all of your ideas for what youwant and we turn them into real
things.
I'm your host, certified CoachMarie McDonald.
Let's get into it.
Hello everyone.
(00:34):
Hello everyone.
This episode is coming out onvalentine's day and it is
episode 114 of the bloom yourmind podcast.
I got this text today from amember of the bloom room that
texted me right afterwards andshe said said this, that was
amazing, from the bottom of mybig old heart, in all caps.
She said thank you, and theword amazing was in all caps and
I was like you know.
(00:56):
I texted her back and I saidwell, everyone just brought it
today.
I'm so grateful for this group.
And she texted me back againand she said you are definitely
changing the world and I am sohappy to be a part of it.
That was after some coachingtoday on the topic that this
episode is about, which is why Iread you that text.
It is about the number oneskill that we can bring to our
(01:23):
relationships and every time Iteach someone this skill, it is
both the most difficult thingthat any of us can practice and
can do of conflict and war andtribalism and discord and broken
(01:50):
relationships.
Doing it well is the root ofhealing communication, that sort
(02:12):
of like bridges, gaps, gaps andheels divides long lasting
relationships, deep, rich,incredible relationships, and is
the key to truly knowing theothers in your life and being
known.
Known, but again, it is thehardest thing to do and also the
(02:33):
very most fulfilling.
One of the things that came upin the bloom room today is that
there are different ways ofsaying this, but oftentimes
things get really really hardbefore they get better.
There are different ways ofthinking about this.
There's something called theextinction burst, when in a
kid's behavior, right beforethey're going to stop doing
something that you've reallybeen working on them with,
(02:54):
they'll have a big explosion ofthat behavior and it's called an
extinction burst.
You can look it up and readabout it.
There's a group called 2BMagnetic and they talk about how
, before you really experiencewhat you're really working
towards, you'll go throughsomething called a magic dark,
which is where you're reallylike being tested with all of
(03:14):
the new boundaries you'resetting and the things that
you're really doing for yourselfand that you're really trying,
the ways you're trying to change.
And I see it, you know, in thework that we do in the bloom
room.
We have to fail a lot with ouriterations of our ideas, the
thing that we're trying to turnfrom a glimmer of possibility in
(03:35):
our minds into a real thing.
We have to fail as we iterateand learn from those failures
over and over, and then all of asudden things get better.
It's a game of inches, makingtiny progress, little by little
by little, towards our goals.
And that game of inches, whichI'll talk about next week, more
(03:57):
is true in our projects, bykeeping our momentum, little bit
by little bit.
It's true in our relationships.
It's true everywhere.
We make great progress bymaking consistent, small steps
toward what we're looking for.
And that is true of ourrelationships and this skill
(04:18):
that I'm teaching you today.
The other thing that is true isthat this skill is applicable
to adults in our lives, to ourprimary relationships, to our
family members, whether that'sour nuclear family or our
current family or our chosenfamily, and it's true of any
(04:38):
other relationships, friendshipsand also relationships with
children.
I will also say that there aredifferent levels that you can
practice this tool and it getsharder and harder and harder,
and your primary partner in yourlife is one of the trickiest
usually, and or your parents oryour nuclear family.
Those are the two that tend tobe the trickiest to apply this
(04:59):
tool with.
And so you know, just know that, and when trying any new set of
tools or resources or practices, give yourself a lot of
self-love, lots of compassion,lots of.
You know, if you try and youfail, celebrate that you tried.
(05:20):
That way you'll try again.
If you try and you feel and youbeat yourself up, you'll
probably not try again.
So let's always celebrate theprogress that we made.
Let's always measure how wellwe're doing against where we
came from, which is never havingdone it before.
So every attempt that you makeis something to celebrate and
you'll get a little bit betterand a little bit better, a
(05:42):
little at a time, a little bitbetter, a little at a time.
This tool is all about how tounderstand somebody else's
experience In a relationship.
The tool might even be how tounderstand someone else's
experience of you.
Here are the two things thathave been the very most valuable
(06:08):
in practicing how to understandanother person.
The very first thing is thatwhen I understood that listening
to someone else is me having aboundary, it changed everything
(06:29):
for me and I'm going to see thatagain a little bit later on in
the episode.
But practicing wonderfullistening skills, active
listening skills, is a way ofsetting a boundary.
Here's what I mean.
Listening is the skill we'retalking about today, active
listening, mirror listening,which I've talked about in a
(06:49):
different episode and listen tothis.
But this is version 2.0 and I'mgoing deeper into this today.
Listening to someone else is theway that we practice
understanding what is yours andwhat is mine, what is yours and
what is mine.
When we get really good atlistening to someone else and
(07:12):
validating their experience andunderstanding their experience,
then it doesn't get mixed upwith our own and muddied up with
our own, our own and muddied upwith our own.
The minute that we startarguing with someone else's
experience, in the middle ofwhen they're sharing, we're
mixing our experience in withtheirs and making it all muddy.
(07:35):
So it means that not only dothey not get to have their
experience, but we don't get tohave ours either, because now
it's all mixed up.
When we can listen to someoneelse's feelings and someone
else's experience and validatesomeone else's feelings and
(08:00):
someone else's experience, nomatter what those feelings and
experience are, that is when weget to have our feelings and our
experience, because we arekeeping separate what is theirs
(08:21):
and what is ours.
The way that this works is whensomeone is sharing and comes to
us to say, hey, I had thisexperience and I didn't like
what you did and this is how Iexperienced it.
We may have parts of us thatstart to raise up their heads
like little meerkats.
Can you picture meerkats thatare like they like pick up their
(08:41):
heads and look around and arelike uh-uh, uh-uh.
I don't agree with that.
That is not right.
That is not how that went down.
No way, that is not.
I do not agree with that.
That ain't right.
We just want to encourage thoselittle meerkats to settle back
down and in that moment, justsay this is not about me, this
(09:04):
is about them.
What's mine, what's theirs.
When we can understand thatsomeone else's feelings and
experience are truly about them,not about us, that is when
healing begins.
Now, what I don't mean is thatwhen you're hearing someone else
(09:25):
talk, you're not taking theirfeedback.
I'm not saying that.
I am saying, in the moment oflistening, your only job is not
to agree or disagree, but tounderstand what they thought
about an experience, what theyexperienced, what they thought
(09:46):
about it and what they feltabout it.
Later on, you can decide whatyou think, you can decide
whether you agree.
You can decide if it matchedyour experience In the first
moment, when they're speaking,your only job is to listen to
understand what it was like forthem.
When we can let them have that,when we can let them, we can
(10:15):
love them enough to say nomatter what I think, what I
think, I can acknowledge thatyou think too.
No matter what I feel, I canacknowledge that you feel too.
No matter what I experienced, Ican still acknowledge that you
(10:36):
experienced too.
That is our golden ticket, likeCharlie and the Chocolate
Factory, to having our ownexperience too.
First, we got to let them havetheir experience.
We're really good in our brainsat conflating them, at
(10:59):
listening to someone else andimmediately thinking what was
this like for me?
Do I agree?
Do I not agree?
What the heck?
What is this even about?
What are they saying?
Instead of listening like alover by a lover, I just mean
someone who loves Our one job isto listen to understand what it
was like for them.
So when they say, here's whatthat was like, we say, okay, so
(11:23):
let me get this.
So when they say here's whatthat was like, we say, okay, so
let me get this.
What I think you're telling meis, and we repeat back to them
in the most authentic way thatwe can, whatever it is that they
said here's what I heard, youfelt this, you felt this, you
felt this, this is how it wentdown for you.
Is that right?
And you're feeling this now.
And when we do that, we are amirror.
(11:51):
We are mirroring back to theperson who is speaking what they
said, what they felt, what theyexperienced.
When we are a mirror, that ishow our listening becomes our
boundary.
Do you see that?
Because we're not agreeing,we're not disagreeing, we're not
(12:12):
commenting, we're not fighting,we're not muddying up the water
by adding our experience intotheir experience?
We are holding a mirror thatsays I'm getting you, I'm loving
you, I'm validating you.
That mirror also createsaccountability.
When we can say back to someonehere's what you're saying,
(12:34):
here's what you felt, here'swhat you experienced, and we say
is that right?
Then they just hear back whatthey put out into the world
unfiltered.
They're hearing it right backand it creates accountability
for them.
Is that really what I wanted?
Is that really what I thoughtIs that really what I felt?
Wait a minute, maybe that's notactually, maybe I'm being a
(12:57):
little hasty here, or and theycan change it a little bit and
they can say actually, okay,wait, that's not exactly what I
feel and think.
Here's what I really experienceand think and feel right, but
it's a clean, clear mirror,what's mine, what's yours,
what's mine, what's yours.
It's not muddy, it's nottriggery, triggery, triggery.
(13:18):
I'm triggering you, you'retriggering me.
It's just the person told youwhat went down for them.
You hold up a loving mirror.
Here's what went down for you.
Did I get that right?
And then they get a chance tosee the reflection.
They see exactly what they said, that they felt, they
experienced and they thought.
And they get to say, okay, wait, let me change some things.
(13:41):
Or they get to say, yes, thatis what I experienced.
And what happens then is theyfeel validated, they feel loved
and, just like the air going outof a balloon, they go out of
their triggered place where theywant to fight or they want to
(14:01):
run away, or they want to freezeor fawn, whatever their fight
or flight response is, it letsall of that out of them.
And so then the air's out ofthe balloon, the power's out of
the conversation, the oxygen'sout of the fire, and they've
been heard and they feel loved.
This can happen in one sentence.
(14:22):
It can happen in biggerconversations, in many sentences
.
I'm taking a lot of sentencesto describe it right now so you
really understand what I'msaying.
But this can happen real quick.
Someone comes to you and say youknow, it felt really
frustrating that you threw yourlaundry on the ground last night
.
And you can say, ah, that wasreally frustrating for you.
You really don't like yourlaundry on the ground last night
.
And you can say, ah, that wasreally frustrating for you.
(14:43):
You really don't like thelaundry on the ground.
You can be like, yeah, it makesme feel like you don't respect
that I'm always doing thelaundry.
You can say it feelsdisrespectful because I threw my
laundry on the ground and thatfeels disrespectful because
you're always doing the laundry.
I get that.
I get that.
So you're just mirroring backwhat they said to you and it
(15:06):
takes all the steam.
It takes all the steam out ofit.
They feel validated.
You heard them rather thanimmediately coming back with but
it was late and I was tired andit was dark or whatever, who
cares?
The very first thing is thatthey raised their hand first to
say something.
And so often in conversationsomeone comes and raises their
(15:28):
hand to say something and allthey're looking for is for them
to say the thing they want tosay, and you hear it.
And instead of hearing it, wereply with something else, which
is like changing the subject.
Let me give you another metaphorfor this.
In yoga, you can do a backbend,right when your feet and your
hands are on the ground, and youpush up, and it's called a
(15:48):
wheel.
So it's like you can imagine acircle or a sphere or just a
circle, actually cut in halfalong the diameter.
So it's half circle.
Right, a person looks like ahalf circle, with their hands on
the ground doing a backbend andtheir feet on the ground.
So it's half circle.
Right, a person looks like ahalf circle, with their hands on
the ground doing a backbend andtheir feet on the ground.
So let's say I'm going to go doa backbend and I come to you
(16:08):
and I say, hey, I'm going to doa backbend and it's a wood floor
.
That's kind of hard.
Could you spot me, you know,can you make sure I don't fall?
And instead you say, no, I'mactually going to do a backbend.
You spot me?
That would be so weird, right?
You're like wait, but I justasked you to spot me and you're
(16:29):
saying no, you're going to do itinstead first.
That's so weird, right?
We wouldn't do that.
We would be like either yes, Iwill spot you, or let's take
turns, go ahead.
You asked first, you go, andthen I'll go.
Right, let's take anotherexample.
I have a cut on my hand and Icome to you and I say, hey, I
have a cut on my hand, can Ihave a bandaid?
It's bleeding and it hurts.
(16:52):
And you ignore that and say,actually, I have a cut on my
hand, can you give me a bandaid?
It's weird.
Maybe you'd say, oh my gosh, weboth have cuts.
Yeah, let's get some band-aids.
Here's one for you.
I'll help you put it on.
Can you help me put mine on too?
Right, both people get to beheard, both people get a
band-aid, both people get a spotwhen they're doing a backbend,
(17:14):
but the person who asked firstat least gets acknowledged first
.
Okay, are you tracking how thisrelates to the conversation?
One person comes and says, hey,you threw your laundry on the
floor, and oftentimes inrelationships, we tell them why
it doesn't matter.
We say I came in late and itwas dark, without ever
(17:39):
acknowledging what they said wasdark.
Without ever acknowledging whatthey said, we say, no, I'm
going to do a backbend.
You spot me, without everacknowledging that they asked
for it.
All we have to do to write thisis when they say, hey, it
(18:00):
really bothered me that youthrew your laundry on the floor.
You say, oh gosh, I hear you,that's annoying, I threw my
laundry on the floor.
And they say, yeah, and I workreally hard to do the laundry.
And you say, I know you workreally hard to do the laundry.
I hear you, that was superannoying that I threw it on the
floor.
Hey, we just gave them a spot.
They did a backbend, they madethemselves vulnerable to tell us
(18:23):
something because they trust usand we showed up for them and
we spotted them and they'regoing to feel great and
validated.
And then we can say you know,it was late and it was dark and
I am so tired when I come home.
It be okay with you if, everyonce in a while, if I do that,
if I promise to pick it up firstthing and then you can.
(18:46):
Maybe the answer's yes, maybethe answer's no, you can discuss
it.
But no matter what happens,spot their backbend.
First, me, allowing you to haveyour feeling and your experience
is the ticket to me.
Being able to have myexperience and my feeling too,
(19:06):
listening and holding up amirror that's not all muddy, by
mixing up all of my experiencewith your experience.
That is having a boundary,keeping the boundary between
what's mine, what's yours,what's mine, what's yours super
clear so we can love each other.
(19:26):
And it creates accountability,because we're not all mixed up
in a big, you know cake batterbowl.
I can tell what's yours andwhat's mine, and you can tell
more easily what's yours andwhat's mine, because I didn't
(19:47):
mix them up.
I listened to you, I validatedyou, I repeated back what I
heard, I checked forunderstanding.
It was your turn because youraised your hand first, and then
what happens, my friends, iswhen the air is out of the
balloon and we really listen tounderstand somebody else, two
beautiful things happen.
Then we get our turn and theother person is not in fight or
(20:11):
flight anymore, so they canactually hear us, and oftentimes
we don't really need to talk somuch anymore.
There's a part of you that mayfeel like wait a minute, but I
want to talk, and that's great.
I remember the first time Iheard this whole concept, I felt
the same, but then Iexperienced it and when I did
all the hard work of listeningand listening and listening, for
(20:32):
the first few times when I wasreally wanting to talk, I felt
the truth of it.
It feels awesome to actuallynot need to talk that bad, to
actually just like say thecouple things that are really
important then for you to sayafterward.
But once you listen to someoneelse's experience, your empathy
kicks in.
You go out of fight or flightor annoyance or whatever, and
(20:56):
your empathy kicks in.
Okay, let's take a few of themost common questions that
people ask me about this.
Number one what if I amtriggered?
And what if they're triggered?
If you're triggered too, youjust want to take a break.
Take a break, take five minutes, everybody, cool down and then
(21:18):
come back to it.
Five minutes, ten minutes.
However, you need what if it'sreally really really hard to do
this at first?
Well, it is, I.
Back to it Five minutes, 10minutes.
However, you need what if it'sreally really really hard to do
this at first.
Well it is, I tell you, it islike so hard.
Even if we're really, reallygrown it's so hard.
But here's a little trick Withkids it's a talking stick, right
.
(21:38):
When I hold the talking stick,it's my turn to talk and it's
your turn to listen.
Your only job is to listen.
When it's my turn to hold thetalking stick, I get to share my
experience, you get to listen.
You get to ask questions aboutmy experience that are not
passive aggressive.
By the way, if in your questionasking you get passive
(22:02):
aggressive, do not ask questions.
Just repeat back what they said.
I said that today in the bloomroom when we were talking about
this and I got some big gigglesfrom people and they were like
nodding.
So if you're asking questionsto check for understanding and
you notice you're getting cheeky, you're getting passive,
aggressive, cut it out.
Don't ask those questions, justrepeat back what you're hearing
(22:24):
in a not weird way.
Okay, but back to the talkingstick.
You know I used to work withchildren a lot and the talking
stick is magic and you knowwhat's really helpful in adult
relationships.
A talking stick it can beimaginary if you want.
When it's your turn to listen,you can just tell yourself they
(22:45):
have the talking stick right now.
And you can say to the personhey, I'm going to listen to you
and I want to really listen toyou and really understand you,
and then I'll talk later, but Ireally want to understand you
first.
You can even say that out loud,which is the second question.
Which is what if I never get aturn?
Well, you can say to the personhey, listen, it's really
(23:07):
important to me that weunderstand each other.
Would you be okay with mereally listening to you first
and really just gettingeverything that you experienced,
and then can we switch so wecan each take a turn Because
it's so important to me that weunderstand each other.
You can say it like that, okay.
Next question that I get a lotof is what if I don't agree with
what they're saying?
And here's the tough loveanswer, my loves Tough.
(23:33):
The answer is it's not aboutwhether you agree or not.
Remember one of my bloom roompeople said you know, it's just
really hard for me to hearpeople talking BS.
I'm just going to call bullshiton it and we all laughed and I
said great, and that's going tostop the listening.
You know, in the moment your jobis to hold up a mirror and
(23:59):
reflect back what they're saying, so you're understanding it.
That's nonviolent communicationusing compassionate wording.
Right, here's what I'm hearingyou saying, even if you don't
agree, because once it's yourturn, you can talk about how you
don't actually agree with that,but your first job is to repeat
(24:22):
back what you hear and remember.
The big reasons here arebecause that's a mirror.
You're not muddying the spacebetween the two of you.
The minute you disagree, rightin the moment, before validating
and hearing them, you'regetting muddy water.
You're confusing what's mine,what's yours, what's mine,
what's yours, and you're notholding up a mirror that allows
(24:44):
them to hear themselves, whichcreates some accountability for
their own opinion.
Right, if there's mud in there,if you make it muddy and argue
right away, then they're goingto get defensive.
If you just validate, they canhear themselves.
They can hear what they'resaying and be like oh yeah, that
is what I think.
Or wait, maybe I didn't, maybethat's a little dramatic, maybe
(25:05):
I didn't actually think that, orwhatever it is.
So if you don't agree, it's notyour turn to disagree or agree.
It's not about you in thismoment.
It's just about holding up amirror and listening.
Then another one, two more Q&A,and then I'm going to wrap up
here.
What if I'm always the one thathas to be the first listener?
What if I always have to gofirst?
(25:25):
This can be tough, and I wentthrough this.
There was a time in my lifewhere I was like why do I always
have to be the grownup?
Why do I always, in all myrelationships, have to be the
one that is listening and usingcompassionate listening?
And you know what someone saidto me Do you want to be the
other person, not the otherindividual specifically.
(25:46):
Just they were saying to me whodo you want to be?
Do you want to be someone wholistens or not?
And I was like, oh right, Idon't want to be someone that
doesn't listen.
I don't want to be someone thatcan't hear other people.
If I have to be the one that ispracticing good listening,
every time I will, becausethat's who I want to be.
(26:07):
And the very last thing is whatif I'm always having to be the
teacher?
And this is one that I thinkyou know is really one for
boundaries too.
So we talked about how listeningis a mirror and it's a way of
having boundaries.
You being a good listener isyou having boundaries because
(26:28):
you're keeping clear what ismine and what is yours.
You're not agreeing, you're notdisagreeing.
You're holding up a mirror tounderstand lovingly and reflect
what someone else hasexperienced.
You get to understand them overthere it's not you, it's them
Lovingly.
Understand who they are, wherethey are, what they experienced,
(26:50):
them lovingly.
Understand who they are wherethey are, what they experienced
and also, if they're reallywanting to learn how to listen
from you and sometimes this canbe really difficult I've worked
with lots of couples where itwas really difficult for one of
them to learn and the other onereally got it.
If you're feeling like in one ofyour relationships you're
(27:11):
constantly in the teacher role,it's okay to say not right now.
It's okay to say you know what.
I can't do this right now.
I can't teach right now.
I'm feeling too flooded ortriggered or I'm exhausted and I
just I love you and I can'twalk through this right now.
One tool that I've seen workwell is to write it down.
If you want to write it downand give it to them instead, or
(27:34):
you can just say I'm this timeI'm not going to walk you
through it, you get to haveboundaries.
Listening is a form ofboundaries.
It is a form of compassion.
It is a form of connection.
It is a form of boundary.
It is truly a form ofconnection.
It is a form of boundary.
It is truly a form of love.
(27:56):
If I could give the world a gift, if I could just download into
every human being this skill oflistening, to understand without
judgment, damn would the worldbe a better place right now.
So, on this love day, thisbeautiful love day, let's all
work to be a better listener.
(28:16):
We can all be better at it.
I'm working to be better at it.
Everybody can be better at it.
When we truly listen to someoneelse to understand them, we
truly see them, and that's whatwe all are looking for is to be
(28:37):
seen.
So let's go first.
I love you all on this love dayand that is what I've got for
you this week.
I will see you next week.
I will see you next week.
If you like what you're hearingon the podcast, you got to come
(29:02):
and join us in the Bloom Room.
This is a year-round membershipwhere we take all of these
concepts and we apply them toreal life in a community where
we have each other's backs andwe bring out the best in each
other.
We're all there to make ourideas real, one idea at a time.
We'll see you in the bloom room, thank you.
Welcome to the Bloom your Mind Podcast, where we take
all of your ideas for what youwant and we turn them into real
things.
I'm your host, certified CoachMarie McDonald.
Let's get into it.
Hello everyone.
(00:34):
Hello everyone.
This episode is coming out onvalentine's day and it is
episode 114 of the bloom yourmind podcast.
I got this text today from amember of the bloom room that
texted me right afterwards andshe said said this, that was
amazing, from the bottom of mybig old heart, in all caps.
She said thank you, and theword amazing was in all caps and
I was like you know.
(00:56):
I texted her back and I saidwell, everyone just brought it
today.
I'm so grateful for this group.
And she texted me back againand she said you are definitely
changing the world and I am sohappy to be a part of it.
That was after some coachingtoday on the topic that this
episode is about, which is why Iread you that text.
It is about the number oneskill that we can bring to our
(01:23):
relationships and every time Iteach someone this skill, it is
both the most difficult thingthat any of us can practice and
can do of conflict and war andtribalism and discord and broken
(01:50):
relationships.
Doing it well is the root ofhealing communication, that sort
(02:12):
of like bridges, gaps, gaps andheels divides long lasting
relationships, deep, rich,incredible relationships, and is
the key to truly knowing theothers in your life and being
known.
Known, but again, it is thehardest thing to do and also the
(02:33):
very most fulfilling.
One of the things that came upin the bloom room today is that
there are different ways ofsaying this, but oftentimes
things get really really hardbefore they get better.
There are different ways ofthinking about this.
There's something called theextinction burst, when in a
kid's behavior, right beforethey're going to stop doing
something that you've reallybeen working on them with,
(02:54):
they'll have a big explosion ofthat behavior and it's called an
extinction burst.
You can look it up and readabout it.
There's a group called 2BMagnetic and they talk about how
, before you really experiencewhat you're really working
towards, you'll go throughsomething called a magic dark,
which is where you're reallylike being tested with all of
(03:14):
the new boundaries you'resetting and the things that
you're really doing for yourselfand that you're really trying,
the ways you're trying to change.
And I see it, you know, in thework that we do in the bloom
room.
We have to fail a lot with ouriterations of our ideas, the
thing that we're trying to turnfrom a glimmer of possibility in
(03:35):
our minds into a real thing.
We have to fail as we iterateand learn from those failures
over and over, and then all of asudden things get better.
It's a game of inches, makingtiny progress, little by little
by little, towards our goals.
And that game of inches, whichI'll talk about next week, more
(03:57):
is true in our projects, bykeeping our momentum, little bit
by little bit.
It's true in our relationships.
It's true everywhere.
We make great progress bymaking consistent, small steps
toward what we're looking for.
And that is true of ourrelationships and this skill
(04:18):
that I'm teaching you today.
The other thing that is true isthat this skill is applicable
to adults in our lives, to ourprimary relationships, to our
family members, whether that'sour nuclear family or our
current family or our chosenfamily, and it's true of any
(04:38):
other relationships, friendshipsand also relationships with
children.
I will also say that there aredifferent levels that you can
practice this tool and it getsharder and harder and harder,
and your primary partner in yourlife is one of the trickiest
usually, and or your parents oryour nuclear family.
Those are the two that tend tobe the trickiest to apply this
(04:59):
tool with.
And so you know, just know that, and when trying any new set of
tools or resources or practices, give yourself a lot of
self-love, lots of compassion,lots of.
You know, if you try and youfail, celebrate that you tried.
(05:20):
That way you'll try again.
If you try and you feel and youbeat yourself up, you'll
probably not try again.
So let's always celebrate theprogress that we made.
Let's always measure how wellwe're doing against where we
came from, which is never havingdone it before.
So every attempt that you makeis something to celebrate and
you'll get a little bit betterand a little bit better, a
(05:42):
little at a time, a little bitbetter, a little at a time.
This tool is all about how tounderstand somebody else's
experience In a relationship.
The tool might even be how tounderstand someone else's
experience of you.
Here are the two things thathave been the very most valuable
(06:08):
in practicing how to understandanother person.
The very first thing is thatwhen I understood that listening
to someone else is me having aboundary, it changed everything
(06:29):
for me and I'm going to see thatagain a little bit later on in
the episode.
But practicing wonderfullistening skills, active
listening skills, is a way ofsetting a boundary.
Here's what I mean.
Listening is the skill we'retalking about today, active
listening, mirror listening,which I've talked about in a
(06:49):
different episode and listen tothis.
But this is version 2.0 and I'mgoing deeper into this today.
Listening to someone else is theway that we practice
understanding what is yours andwhat is mine, what is yours and
what is mine.
When we get really good atlistening to someone else and
(07:12):
validating their experience andunderstanding their experience,
then it doesn't get mixed upwith our own and muddied up with
our own, our own and muddied upwith our own.
The minute that we startarguing with someone else's
experience, in the middle ofwhen they're sharing, we're
mixing our experience in withtheirs and making it all muddy.
(07:35):
So it means that not only dothey not get to have their
experience, but we don't get tohave ours either, because now
it's all mixed up.
When we can listen to someoneelse's feelings and someone
else's experience and validatesomeone else's feelings and
(08:00):
someone else's experience, nomatter what those feelings and
experience are, that is when weget to have our feelings and our
experience, because we arekeeping separate what is theirs
(08:21):
and what is ours.
The way that this works is whensomeone is sharing and comes to
us to say, hey, I had thisexperience and I didn't like
what you did and this is how Iexperienced it.
We may have parts of us thatstart to raise up their heads
like little meerkats.
Can you picture meerkats thatare like they like pick up their
(08:41):
heads and look around and arelike uh-uh, uh-uh.
I don't agree with that.
That is not right.
That is not how that went down.
No way, that is not.
I do not agree with that.
That ain't right.
We just want to encourage thoselittle meerkats to settle back
down and in that moment, justsay this is not about me, this
(09:04):
is about them.
What's mine, what's theirs.
When we can understand thatsomeone else's feelings and
experience are truly about them,not about us, that is when
healing begins.
Now, what I don't mean is thatwhen you're hearing someone else
(09:25):
talk, you're not taking theirfeedback.
I'm not saying that.
I am saying, in the moment oflistening, your only job is not
to agree or disagree, but tounderstand what they thought
about an experience, what theyexperienced, what they thought
(09:46):
about it and what they feltabout it.
Later on, you can decide whatyou think, you can decide
whether you agree.
You can decide if it matchedyour experience In the first
moment, when they're speaking,your only job is to listen to
understand what it was like forthem.
When we can let them have that,when we can let them, we can
(10:15):
love them enough to say nomatter what I think, what I
think, I can acknowledge thatyou think too.
No matter what I feel, I canacknowledge that you feel too.
No matter what I experienced, Ican still acknowledge that you
(10:36):
experienced too.
That is our golden ticket, likeCharlie and the Chocolate
Factory, to having our ownexperience too.
First, we got to let them havetheir experience.
We're really good in our brainsat conflating them, at
(10:59):
listening to someone else andimmediately thinking what was
this like for me?
Do I agree?
Do I not agree?
What the heck?
What is this even about?
What are they saying?
Instead of listening like alover by a lover, I just mean
someone who loves Our one job isto listen to understand what it
was like for them.
So when they say, here's whatthat was like, we say, okay, so
(11:23):
let me get this.
So when they say here's whatthat was like, we say, okay, so
let me get this.
What I think you're telling meis, and we repeat back to them
in the most authentic way thatwe can, whatever it is that they
said here's what I heard, youfelt this, you felt this, you
felt this, this is how it wentdown for you.
Is that right?
And you're feeling this now.
And when we do that, we are amirror.
(11:51):
We are mirroring back to theperson who is speaking what they
said, what they felt, what theyexperienced.
When we are a mirror, that ishow our listening becomes our
boundary.
Do you see that?
Because we're not agreeing,we're not disagreeing, we're not
(12:12):
commenting, we're not fighting,we're not muddying up the water
by adding our experience intotheir experience?
We are holding a mirror thatsays I'm getting you, I'm loving
you, I'm validating you.
That mirror also createsaccountability.
When we can say back to someonehere's what you're saying,
(12:34):
here's what you felt, here'swhat you experienced, and we say
is that right?
Then they just hear back whatthey put out into the world
unfiltered.
They're hearing it right backand it creates accountability
for them.
Is that really what I wanted?
Is that really what I thoughtIs that really what I felt?
Wait a minute, maybe that's notactually, maybe I'm being a
(12:57):
little hasty here, or and theycan change it a little bit and
they can say actually, okay,wait, that's not exactly what I
feel and think.
Here's what I really experienceand think and feel right, but
it's a clean, clear mirror,what's mine, what's yours,
what's mine, what's yours.
It's not muddy, it's nottriggery, triggery, triggery.
(13:18):
I'm triggering you, you'retriggering me.
It's just the person told youwhat went down for them.
You hold up a loving mirror.
Here's what went down for you.
Did I get that right?
And then they get a chance tosee the reflection.
They see exactly what they said, that they felt, they
experienced and they thought.
And they get to say, okay, wait, let me change some things.
(13:41):
Or they get to say, yes, thatis what I experienced.
And what happens then is theyfeel validated, they feel loved
and, just like the air going outof a balloon, they go out of
their triggered place where theywant to fight or they want to
(14:01):
run away, or they want to freezeor fawn, whatever their fight
or flight response is, it letsall of that out of them.
And so then the air's out ofthe balloon, the power's out of
the conversation, the oxygen'sout of the fire, and they've
been heard and they feel loved.
This can happen in one sentence.
(14:22):
It can happen in biggerconversations, in many sentences
.
I'm taking a lot of sentencesto describe it right now so you
really understand what I'msaying.
But this can happen real quick.
Someone comes to you and say youknow, it felt really
frustrating that you threw yourlaundry on the ground last night
.
And you can say, ah, that wasreally frustrating for you.
You really don't like yourlaundry on the ground last night
.
And you can say, ah, that wasreally frustrating for you.
(14:43):
You really don't like thelaundry on the ground.
You can be like, yeah, it makesme feel like you don't respect
that I'm always doing thelaundry.
You can say it feelsdisrespectful because I threw my
laundry on the ground and thatfeels disrespectful because
you're always doing the laundry.
I get that.
I get that.
So you're just mirroring backwhat they said to you and it
(15:06):
takes all the steam.
It takes all the steam out ofit.
They feel validated.
You heard them rather thanimmediately coming back with but
it was late and I was tired andit was dark or whatever, who
cares?
The very first thing is thatthey raised their hand first to
say something.
And so often in conversationsomeone comes and raises their
(15:28):
hand to say something and allthey're looking for is for them
to say the thing they want tosay, and you hear it.
And instead of hearing it, wereply with something else, which
is like changing the subject.
Let me give you another metaphorfor this.
In yoga, you can do a backbend,right when your feet and your
hands are on the ground, and youpush up, and it's called a
(15:48):
wheel.
So it's like you can imagine acircle or a sphere or just a
circle, actually cut in halfalong the diameter.
So it's half circle.
Right, a person looks like ahalf circle, with their hands on
the ground doing a backbend andtheir feet on the ground.
So it's half circle.
Right, a person looks like ahalf circle, with their hands on
the ground doing a backbend andtheir feet on the ground.
So let's say I'm going to go doa backbend and I come to you
(16:08):
and I say, hey, I'm going to doa backbend and it's a wood floor
.
That's kind of hard.
Could you spot me, you know,can you make sure I don't fall?
And instead you say, no, I'mactually going to do a backbend.
You spot me?
That would be so weird, right?
You're like wait, but I justasked you to spot me and you're
(16:29):
saying no, you're going to do itinstead first.
That's so weird, right?
We wouldn't do that.
We would be like either yes, Iwill spot you, or let's take
turns, go ahead.
You asked first, you go, andthen I'll go.
Right, let's take anotherexample.
I have a cut on my hand and Icome to you and I say, hey, I
have a cut on my hand, can Ihave a bandaid?
It's bleeding and it hurts.
(16:52):
And you ignore that and say,actually, I have a cut on my
hand, can you give me a bandaid?
It's weird.
Maybe you'd say, oh my gosh, weboth have cuts.
Yeah, let's get some band-aids.
Here's one for you.
I'll help you put it on.
Can you help me put mine on too?
Right, both people get to beheard, both people get a
band-aid, both people get a spotwhen they're doing a backbend,
(17:14):
but the person who asked firstat least gets acknowledged first
.
Okay, are you tracking how thisrelates to the conversation?
One person comes and says, hey,you threw your laundry on the
floor, and oftentimes inrelationships, we tell them why
it doesn't matter.
We say I came in late and itwas dark, without ever
(17:39):
acknowledging what they said wasdark.
Without ever acknowledging whatthey said, we say, no, I'm
going to do a backbend.
You spot me, without everacknowledging that they asked
for it.
All we have to do to write thisis when they say, hey, it
(18:00):
really bothered me that youthrew your laundry on the floor.
You say, oh gosh, I hear you,that's annoying, I threw my
laundry on the floor.
And they say, yeah, and I workreally hard to do the laundry.
And you say, I know you workreally hard to do the laundry.
I hear you, that was superannoying that I threw it on the
floor.
Hey, we just gave them a spot.
They did a backbend, they madethemselves vulnerable to tell us
(18:23):
something because they trust usand we showed up for them and
we spotted them and they'regoing to feel great and
validated.
And then we can say you know,it was late and it was dark and
I am so tired when I come home.
It be okay with you if, everyonce in a while, if I do that,
if I promise to pick it up firstthing and then you can.
(18:46):
Maybe the answer's yes, maybethe answer's no, you can discuss
it.
But no matter what happens,spot their backbend.
First, me, allowing you to haveyour feeling and your experience
is the ticket to me.
Being able to have myexperience and my feeling too,
(19:06):
listening and holding up amirror that's not all muddy, by
mixing up all of my experiencewith your experience.
That is having a boundary,keeping the boundary between
what's mine, what's yours,what's mine, what's yours super
clear so we can love each other.
(19:26):
And it creates accountability,because we're not all mixed up
in a big, you know cake batterbowl.
I can tell what's yours andwhat's mine, and you can tell
more easily what's yours andwhat's mine, because I didn't
(19:47):
mix them up.
I listened to you, I validatedyou, I repeated back what I
heard, I checked forunderstanding.
It was your turn because youraised your hand first, and then
what happens, my friends, iswhen the air is out of the
balloon and we really listen tounderstand somebody else, two
beautiful things happen.
Then we get our turn and theother person is not in fight or
(20:11):
flight anymore, so they canactually hear us, and oftentimes
we don't really need to talk somuch anymore.
There's a part of you that mayfeel like wait a minute, but I
want to talk, and that's great.
I remember the first time Iheard this whole concept, I felt
the same, but then Iexperienced it and when I did
all the hard work of listeningand listening and listening, for
(20:32):
the first few times when I wasreally wanting to talk, I felt
the truth of it.
It feels awesome to actuallynot need to talk that bad, to
actually just like say thecouple things that are really
important then for you to sayafterward.
But once you listen to someoneelse's experience, your empathy
kicks in.
You go out of fight or flightor annoyance or whatever, and
(20:56):
your empathy kicks in.
Okay, let's take a few of themost common questions that
people ask me about this.
Number one what if I amtriggered?
And what if they're triggered?
If you're triggered too, youjust want to take a break.
Take a break, take five minutes, everybody, cool down and then
(21:18):
come back to it.
Five minutes, ten minutes.
However, you need what if it'sreally really really hard to do
this at first?
Well, it is, I.
Back to it Five minutes, 10minutes.
However, you need what if it'sreally really really hard to do
this at first.
Well it is, I tell you, it islike so hard.
Even if we're really, reallygrown it's so hard.
But here's a little trick Withkids it's a talking stick, right
.
(21:38):
When I hold the talking stick,it's my turn to talk and it's
your turn to listen.
Your only job is to listen.
When it's my turn to hold thetalking stick, I get to share my
experience, you get to listen.
You get to ask questions aboutmy experience that are not
passive aggressive.
By the way, if in your questionasking you get passive
(22:02):
aggressive, do not ask questions.
Just repeat back what they said.
I said that today in the bloomroom when we were talking about
this and I got some big gigglesfrom people and they were like
nodding.
So if you're asking questionsto check for understanding and
you notice you're getting cheeky, you're getting passive,
aggressive, cut it out.
Don't ask those questions, justrepeat back what you're hearing
(22:24):
in a not weird way.
Okay, but back to the talkingstick.
You know I used to work withchildren a lot and the talking
stick is magic and you knowwhat's really helpful in adult
relationships.
A talking stick it can beimaginary if you want.
When it's your turn to listen,you can just tell yourself they
(22:45):
have the talking stick right now.
And you can say to the personhey, I'm going to listen to you
and I want to really listen toyou and really understand you,
and then I'll talk later, but Ireally want to understand you
first.
You can even say that out loud,which is the second question.
Which is what if I never get aturn?
Well, you can say to the personhey, listen, it's really
(23:07):
important to me that weunderstand each other.
Would you be okay with mereally listening to you first
and really just gettingeverything that you experienced,
and then can we switch so wecan each take a turn Because
it's so important to me that weunderstand each other.
You can say it like that, okay.
Next question that I get a lotof is what if I don't agree with
what they're saying?
And here's the tough loveanswer, my loves Tough.
(23:33):
The answer is it's not aboutwhether you agree or not.
Remember one of my bloom roompeople said you know, it's just
really hard for me to hearpeople talking BS.
I'm just going to call bullshiton it and we all laughed and I
said great, and that's going tostop the listening.
You know, in the moment your jobis to hold up a mirror and
(23:59):
reflect back what they're saying, so you're understanding it.
That's nonviolent communicationusing compassionate wording.
Right, here's what I'm hearingyou saying, even if you don't
agree, because once it's yourturn, you can talk about how you
don't actually agree with that,but your first job is to repeat
(24:22):
back what you hear and remember.
The big reasons here arebecause that's a mirror.
You're not muddying the spacebetween the two of you.
The minute you disagree, rightin the moment, before validating
and hearing them, you'regetting muddy water.
You're confusing what's mine,what's yours, what's mine,
what's yours, and you're notholding up a mirror that allows
(24:44):
them to hear themselves, whichcreates some accountability for
their own opinion.
Right, if there's mud in there,if you make it muddy and argue
right away, then they're goingto get defensive.
If you just validate, they canhear themselves.
They can hear what they'resaying and be like oh yeah, that
is what I think.
Or wait, maybe I didn't, maybethat's a little dramatic, maybe
(25:05):
I didn't actually think that, orwhatever it is.
So if you don't agree, it's notyour turn to disagree or agree.
It's not about you in thismoment.
It's just about holding up amirror and listening.
Then another one, two more Q&A,and then I'm going to wrap up
here.
What if I'm always the one thathas to be the first listener?
What if I always have to gofirst?
(25:25):
This can be tough, and I wentthrough this.
There was a time in my lifewhere I was like why do I always
have to be the grownup?
Why do I always, in all myrelationships, have to be the
one that is listening and usingcompassionate listening?
And you know what someone saidto me Do you want to be the
other person, not the otherindividual specifically.
(25:46):
Just they were saying to me whodo you want to be?
Do you want to be someone wholistens or not?
And I was like, oh right, Idon't want to be someone that
doesn't listen.
I don't want to be someone thatcan't hear other people.
If I have to be the one that ispracticing good listening,
every time I will, becausethat's who I want to be.
(26:07):
And the very last thing is whatif I'm always having to be the
teacher?
And this is one that I thinkyou know is really one for
boundaries too.
So we talked about how listeningis a mirror and it's a way of
having boundaries.
You being a good listener isyou having boundaries because
(26:28):
you're keeping clear what ismine and what is yours.
You're not agreeing, you're notdisagreeing.
You're holding up a mirror tounderstand lovingly and reflect
what someone else hasexperienced.
You get to understand them overthere it's not you, it's them
Lovingly.
Understand who they are, wherethey are, what they experienced,
(26:50):
them lovingly.
Understand who they are wherethey are, what they experienced
and also, if they're reallywanting to learn how to listen
from you and sometimes this canbe really difficult I've worked
with lots of couples where itwas really difficult for one of
them to learn and the other onereally got it.
If you're feeling like in one ofyour relationships you're
(27:11):
constantly in the teacher role,it's okay to say not right now.
It's okay to say you know what.
I can't do this right now.
I can't teach right now.
I'm feeling too flooded ortriggered or I'm exhausted and I
just I love you and I can'twalk through this right now.
One tool that I've seen workwell is to write it down.
If you want to write it downand give it to them instead, or
(27:34):
you can just say I'm this timeI'm not going to walk you
through it, you get to haveboundaries.
Listening is a form ofboundaries.
It is a form of compassion.
It is a form of connection.
It is a form of boundary.
It is truly a form ofconnection.
It is a form of boundary.
It is truly a form of love.
(27:56):
If I could give the world a gift, if I could just download into
every human being this skill oflistening, to understand without
judgment, damn would the worldbe a better place right now.
So, on this love day, thisbeautiful love day, let's all
work to be a better listener.
(28:16):
We can all be better at it.
I'm working to be better at it.
Everybody can be better at it.
When we truly listen to someoneelse to understand them, we
truly see them, and that's whatwe all are looking for is to be
(28:37):
seen.
So let's go first.
I love you all on this love dayand that is what I've got for
you this week.
I will see you next week.
I will see you next week.
If you like what you're hearingon the podcast, you got to come
(29:02):
and join us in the Bloom Room.
This is a year-round membershipwhere we take all of these
concepts and we apply them toreal life in a community where
we have each other's backs andwe bring out the best in each
other.
We're all there to make ourideas real, one idea at a time.
We'll see you in the bloom room, thank you.
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