May 30, 2025 • 29 mins
A group of entrepreneurs presented their ideas to a panel of angel investors to be rated, and eventually chosen or rejected. While both groups poured over the content of reports, and bantered over the words spoken, the real investment decision was happening on an entirely subconscious level.
Scientists who study non verbal communication were able to predict with perfect accuracy which entrepreneurs the investors would choose…based entirely off of non-verbal cues.
This episode is all about what our bodies are saying that we don’t realize, and what our brains are reading in other people, that we don’t consciously know. While we’re unaware of this layer of communication running beneath the surface, it makes up over 90% of the exchanges we’re having with the people around us. Meanwhile, we’re basing all of our decisions on this subconscious data…and giving the people around us the data they need to make decisions about us, without realizing what we’re doing.
There’s one simple answer to becoming more aware of this constant non-verbal conversation, and it’s called congruence.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- The breakdown of verbal vs non-verbal communication in a normal exchange and why it’s so important to understand it
- The list of sociometers that indicate cultures where people feel safe
- Hear the story of the bad apple and how one person’s negative tone can be contagious
- About the strength of a good apple, whose positive signals can be an antidote
- How the link between body language and results is neither valueless or all important
- The difference between congruence and incongruence, and the symptoms of each
- Eight ways to check ourselves for congruence and non verbal alignment
- Two ways to call in someone who feels incongruent to us
Mentioned in this episode:
How to connect with Marie:
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- All Things Marie on LinkTree
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Bloom your Mind Podcast, where we take
all of your ideas for what youwant and we turn them into real
things.
I'm your host, Certified CoachMarie McDonald.
Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello everybody and welcome to episode 129 of the
Bloom your Mind podcast.
Okay, I've been thinking aboutthese phrases that I'm going to
share in some way, probably onInstagram, because they've been
delighting me so much, but Ithought I would start our
episode before I get into ourreal content of what your body
is saying.
(00:48):
I wanted to share some of thesesayings that I've heard lately
that have completely delightedme.
So the first one last week,after we had finished these two
days of training that I told youabout last week, my business
partner and I were walkingthrough the airport and it had
been quite a day, quite atwo-day period, very full, very
(01:10):
magnificent.
We were pretty reamed from thedates of wonderful connection
with people that we loved andtraining and speaking and
thinking and all of the stufftraveling.
So we're walking through theairport at the very end of the
second of two very long days andmy business partner and my dear
(01:33):
friend Maggie looks at me andshe's like I wonder what I look
like right now.
And then she shakes her headand she says nevermind, it's
none of my business what I looklike right now.
She says nevermind, it's noneof my business what I look like
right now, and this sentencemade me laugh so hard and filled
(01:54):
me with delight.
I'm always talking to people incoaching about how it is
actually none of our businesswhat the people around us think
about us.
What they think about us is amirror of themselves, and we can
waste so much energy and timeand effort guessing what people
think about us and then changingour behavior to adapt to what
we think they think about us,and it's such a rabbit hole that
(02:17):
is not regenerative in any way.
When someone approaches us andwants to share feedback with us,
hey, that's a different story.
We're going to listen, we'regoing to connect, we're going to
be great listeners, practiceactive listening, all that good
stuff to learn about how we'reimpacting people around us right
, which still may be a mirror ofthem, but we might get some
(02:38):
good insight out of it.
Or when it's something wereally care about and we can see
that they're all kind of messedup emotionally, we can check in
and see what's going on, butmost of the time, it is none of
our business what other peoplethink about us, and that really
is a shocking release and relieffor a lot of my clients when
they really are spending a lotof time thinking about what
(03:01):
people think about them.
When they start thinking it'snone of my business, can they
let a lot of stuff go.
So she just like made thatsentence and she applied it to
what she looks like, whichreally delighted me.
It's none of my business whatother people what I look like
right now.
It's none of my business whatpeople see.
May you take that and love it.
(03:21):
Also, I was going on a doubledate the other night and I
walked up and the person that wewere going on the date with
said she saw my outfit and shesaid, yes, you understood the
assignment.
This sentence made my night.
It was such an affirmation ofmy outfit and that I looked cute
but also cracked me up, and Iknow that this has been around
(03:44):
for many years, but I am such afan of using that sentence.
You understood the assignmentWell, at the same time thinking
it's none of my business what Ilook like.
These are fabulous right.
Another one that I love camefrom my son when he was little.
Instead of saying I'm deadserious, he said I'm hot,
serious, little.
(04:06):
Instead of saying I'm deadserious, he said I'm hot,
serious, and we use that a lotof the time to say that we're
real serious.
The fourth one is that when I'mlate and I text my husband,
ever since I first was datinghim 15 years ago, he will text
me back and say get over here,which I just think is the best
response.
It's like the opposite ofpassive, aggressive behavior.
(04:28):
It's the opposite of passiveaggression.
It's like passive support.
He's telling me not only is itimportant to him that I'm not
important to him that I'm late,but literally he's not even
commenting on that because whathe cares about is having me next
to him.
This is the best.
Then two more for you.
I just thought this would be anentertaining way to start our
(04:51):
podcast today.
So we've got.
It's none of my business what Ilook like, it's got you and
we've got you understood theassignment.
We've got hot, serious, we'vegot get over here.
And then this guy in thistraining that I was leading
called his need to learnfeedback skills.
He called it a hole in his game.
I loved that so much to usethis sports reference to talk
(05:16):
about what we need to learn inour gaps in communication skills
.
And then another person rightnext to him said that the
feedback framework we wereteaching was a cheat code for
good communication, like takingthis gaming reference and
applying it to communicationskills.
I love it.
So these are some phrases.
I've got more and I'm going towrite a post in an email about
(05:37):
them just because I thinkthey're so fun, and I've been
collecting them, so may theydelight you too.
Today, our real content is totalk about what your body is
saying and what your brain isregistering, is hearing that you
don't even know, that you'repicking up on, and this
information that is under thesurface of what we think we are
(06:00):
basing our perceptions off of.
It is actually informing ourdecisions day in and day out,
and what I'm talking about hereis nonverbal communication.
I'm going to start by sharingsome research that I got real
nerdy digging into.
I really enjoyed researchingthis topic and some amazing
(06:21):
studies that I found within theresearch that were really kind
of mind-bending for me, and thenI'm going to end by sharing how
you can be more aware of whatyou're communicating with
nonverbal communication of alldifferent types, and give you
some tools to use also whenyou're not sure somebody else is
being straight up with you,when their nonverbal
(06:41):
communication maybe doesn'tmatch their verbal communication
what they're saying.
The reason this is so importantis because, as we're making our
ideas real, so many of us arereally focused in on things that
are interactive in some waywith people.
Either we need people's ideason our idea, we need their
buy-in, their support, or ideasactually involve them.
(07:02):
We want them to come togatherings or communities.
I'll talk a little bit aboutthat more later but it's so
important to be aware of whatwe're communicating.
When we talk about our idea,we're giving all kinds of
signals about how much webelieve in it, how much we think
someone else should believe init, how committed we are to our
idea, and so really generatingsome awareness about this can
(07:27):
help you to come across in anauthentic and sincere way.
And again, I'll talk later onabout how this is not about
power posing or faking till youmake it.
It really isn't.
I'm going to give you sometools for how you can be
congruent in your mindset and inyour nonverbal communication.
So, first of all, your body istalking.
So is mine.
(07:47):
Some theorists believe that 93%of our communication is
nonverbal 93%, that only 7% isverbal, that 55% of it is our
tone and 37% of it is our bodylanguage.
Well, as I was researching, Ifound that this information came
(08:09):
from a guy who presented it inthe 1960s, so it's old and it
has held up relatively well.
But I wanted to learn some more.
So I started reading a bookcalled the Culture Code by
Daniel Coyle, which is notspecifically about body language
.
It's about how to createcommunities where people feel
(08:29):
belonging and where people feela strong sense of connection to
one another, which I'm all about, but the first part of it, the
whole first third, is aboutbelonging, and the first part of
that section is about bodylanguage, and he has some
incredible studies in there onnonverbal communication.
What they found in theirresearch was mind-blowing for me
(08:51):
.
I'm going to share more fromthis brilliant person, this
author, in a different podcast,because Coyle has a ton of
really important things to sayon how to create belonging and
many of our ideas, as I saidmentioned earlier, are focused
in on that on creatingbusinesses, communities,
families, gathering spaces,friendships that feel connecting
(09:12):
and that feel have a strongsense of belonging.
So more episodes on that in thefuture.
But today is all about what ourbodies are saying that we don't
realize and what our brains arereading in other people that we
also don't pick up on.
So first, coil was able to boildown the main signals of
(09:34):
belonging.
It's called a sociometer isthis whole sort of collection of
things that signal all thesebody language signifiers and
actions that we do in groupsthat signify connection and
belonging.
And because these are allboiled down, it makes them
(09:55):
measurable so we can measure thenonverbal communication that's
going on between two people ingroups and actually create some
real quantitative data fromthese studies.
So some of the sociometers thatthey use are things like
proximity, how close peoplestand to one another, and when
there is a lot of sense ofbelonging we stand closer not
(10:17):
too close, but closer.
Eye contact, like strong,direct eye contact between
people, all the different peoplein a group.
Mimicry, which is kind of, as itsounds, mirroring each other's
behavior, mirroring each other'sbody language, energy, having
energetic exchanges betweenpeople in a group.
Turn-taking, and I find thisone to be so important.
(10:40):
Turn-taking meaning thateverybody in a group pretty much
speaks the same amount andnobody speaks a super like lot
more than everyone else.
No one is super dominant in thegroup and I find that also
connected to that is that peopledon't interrupt each other in
really strong communities wherethere's a strong sense of
(11:03):
belonging.
Everybody speaks mostly in thesame amount.
Everybody gets a turn andpeople really don't interrupt
each other gets a turn andpeople really don't interrupt
each other.
People also pay attention byleaning forward and giving
someone the full focus of theirattention when others are
speaking.
We can also measure vocal pitchso that it's excited and tuned
(11:26):
in but not aggressive.
We can measure the consistencyof emphasis, so we're kind of
speaking in a cadence that isconsistent, and whether
everybody talks to everybodyelse in a group.
So it's not just little clickybehavior but everybody's talking
to everybody else.
And physical touch high fives,fist bumps, shoulder pats, all
(11:47):
little hugs, all those littlesignifiers that people are close
.
So I wanted to give you thatlist so you have in mind a
visual.
That was helpful for me.
I like looked it up ahead oftime so that I could understand
what are we looking for here,when we're looking for body
language that really connectspeople, what does it look like?
Well, those are the sociometersthat we're going to talk about
in the next couple of studies,these two studies I wanted to
(12:09):
tell you about that Coyleactually talks about in his book
.
That indicated some reallyinteresting insights around body
language and non-verbalcommunication.
Okay, the first of the twostudies I wanted to tell you
about is the good apple and thebad apple.
Coyle put together a studywhere there was a group of
people that were actually doingwhat I like to call a design
(12:33):
challenge, which is because Icome from the design thinking
world.
We did a lot of this back there, and these groups of people
were given a set of materialsand some design constraints is
what I would call it A bunch ofspaghetti noodles and a
marshmallow, which is kind of aheavy thing, and they were
supposed to build a really talltower with the marshmallow at
(12:53):
the top.
Believe it or not, I've donethis activity many times and
within this activity they set upthese groups that were each
attempting to make these towers,and there's a lot of
interesting stuff in this bookthat you should read about it if
you're interested in this.
But the thing I want to focusin on is that when groups were
(13:16):
all together talking about theirideas in this study, they
introduced someone called a badapple.
His job was to play a character,either an Eeyore type, which is
like a downer, a depressing guythat's always bummed about all
the ideas doesn't like anything.
Or number two, a jerk who'sjust really aggressive and
(13:37):
defiant and deviant and is mean,probably loud, interrupting
everybody.
Or a slacker, someone who'swithholding of their effort and
is just like putting their headdown on the desk and thinks it's
all lame, okay.
So what happened is, time aftertime after time, group after
group after group after group,when this one person either the
(14:01):
Eeyore, the slacker or the jerkwas introduced into the group,
the entire group of 20 pluspeople took on that behavior.
So if the slacker was there andhe was like lying his head on
the table and was like what's upwith all this, we don't care
about it, other people startedlaying their head on the table
too and they started not puttingthat much effort into the
(14:21):
project, even when afterwardsyou would ask them and they
would say, yeah, we tried ourhardest.
It was this contagious energy,the body language, the vibe, the
nonverbal communication wascontagious With the Eeyore when
it was all oh, what are we evendoing here?
Why are we spending our timelike this?
The whole group took that on,time after time after time until
(14:44):
okay.
So first of all, that reallysurprised me that one person
could be so contagious in theirnegative nonverbal and verbal
sort of contribution to a groupthat they infected everybody so
consistently.
I know that can happen, butevery single time it happened
what?
(15:05):
Until they introduced the goodapple, there was one group who
had a random dude in there thatwasn't paid, he wasn't a part of
the study and he is what theycall the good apple.
He counteracted the bad applesnonverbal energy and verbal
(15:26):
contributions that were kind oftaken down the group and what
they found in him is that hisnonverbal communication
consistently was good medicinefor the group.
So when the bad apple would saysomething jerky, he would lean
forward, say something warm andkind and then ask the group what
they thought.
Time after time after time itactually turned the group around
(15:50):
.
And so what I took from thisamazing study, of course, is
both how totally contagiousenergy is and how it doesn't
have to be so our goodboundaries with other people's
energy.
If someone in our group or inour space has nonverbal
communication, that's reallybumming us out and it's really
(16:10):
sapping the energy.
Nonverbal communication, that'sreally bumming us out and it's
really sapping the energy.
If someone is in our space likethat, we can have our beautiful
boundaries in place andintentionally not allow it to be
contagious for ourselves.
But what's so interesting?
I always knew that part.
But what's so interesting aboutthis study is it shows that if
(16:30):
we are resilient enough inoverriding that negativity with
our own connection and warmthand engagement of the other
people around us, we canactually counteract a negative
energy in a group.
And that a lot of what thisgood apple did was just his body
language and his tone.
He didn't speak that much, soit just showed me how contagious
(16:54):
and effective our good bodylanguage, connecting, warm
presence, can be in a group orin connecting with other
individuals.
We don't even have to say thatmuch.
Okay, the second study was evenmore impressive and wild.
It was a group of angelinvestors who were hearing a
whole bunch of entrepreneurspresent their ideas for
(17:17):
businesses.
They were all deciding who theywere going to invest in and
they were rating theentrepreneurs' presentations.
So what we found was thatbelonging cues mattered more
than anything that someone saidin their presentation, that they
(17:38):
could predict with perfectaccuracy who the angel investors
would invest in based on thepresence and the sociometers of
the person presenting.
So the angel investors thoughtthat they were ranking business
plans on really rational ideas,like the originality of an idea
or its fit for the currentmarket.
But what they found is, whenthey only looked at the idea on
paper, they ranked everythingreally differently and what they
(18:01):
were actually responding to washow much a person believed in
their idea, how confident theywere when they were speaking and
how determined they were tomake something work
no-transcript rather than theidea itself, even though they
(18:23):
believed they were investing inthe idea.
That's how strongly thenonverbal communication
influences our decision-making.
That 93% was 100% predictivefor this angel investing.
They could predict with 100%accuracy.
(18:45):
That just blew my mind, isn'tthat wild?
So my husband and I werebreaking down this body language
thing and saying that it'sinteresting in that study about
the angel investors because, youknow, the investors went with
the entrepreneurs who are themost confident, committed,
resilient, and some of thosethings feel a little bit like a
chicken or an egg, and some ofthose things feel a little bit
like a chicken or an egg.
(19:06):
So some of those things feelingconfident about an idea,
feeling committed to an ideamight actually be the product of
having a winning idea that youknow is going to kill it.
So in that way, maybe the bodylanguage is an accurate measure
for how successful an idea mightbe.
But also it's possible that anentrepreneur who's presenting
(19:27):
that data could build thosesignals of confidence, that
belief in their idea, when thoseare not really true, maybe
because they aren't using greatlogic, they haven't done great
research, or maybe they're justreally optimistic or really
believe in themselves, eventhough the idea that they have
isn't that great, which wouldmean that that body language is
(19:49):
not an accurate representationof how successful an idea might
be.
It could go either way.
Then again, body language thatshows someone's confident,
committed, determined, resilientmight mean that no matter how
good or bad an idea is, theymight have what it takes to make
it work out in the world.
But maybe too much confidencein a person is a fatal mistake,
(20:09):
because ultimately an idea or aproduct has to stand on its own
when it's out in the world infront of a consumer.
There's lots of conflictingthought here about how
predictive the body languageactually is of the idea, but
what I'm actually saying is thatthe angel investors ultimately
(20:30):
made their decision on who wouldbe the right choice to invest
in, not on the actual productitself.
And body language is superimportant, but most of us, most
of the time, are not aware thatwe're making our decisions based
(20:52):
on it.
We're not aware about whatwe're communicating with it and
that it is so influential as oneof our primary lenses.
So, while it might've beensuper important and given really
important data to the angelinvestors, if they had picked
apart what they were seeing thatwas, body language and what
they were seeing on the actualdata of a written report, maybe
(21:15):
it would have been reallyhelpful, but because it was all
mixed in, it was the onlyinformation they were making
their decision off of.
So you can see, it's importantto be aware of.
So we're not just walkingaround supporting the most
confident people around us,being attracted to the people
that believe in themselves themost, instead of the people with
(21:36):
the best ideas.
It's so important that we knowthat we're communicating
non-verbally what is under thesurface, even when we think that
we're not.
So what do we do here?
What do we do?
You might expect that what I'mgoing to say is that you should
start doing power poses or matchsomeone else's body language
(22:00):
intentionally, which is thatmimicking behavior, called
mirroring, that we automaticallydo when we're connecting with
someone important to us.
But that's not what I'm goingto say.
I'm not going to suggest thatyou fake it till you make it or
that you try any tricks.
What I want to suggest here issome tools that you can use to
(22:20):
sync up what you're saying onthe outside with what's
happening on the inside.
To sync what you think and youfeel up what you're saying on
the outside with what'shappening on the inside.
To sync what you think and youfeel with what you say and you
do.
And what that does is itcreates something called
congruence.
When we as human beings feelincongruence, it's that feeling
(22:41):
in the pit of our stomach, andwhen we feel it about someone
else, we want to listen to it.
It's that experience.
When we see someone that lookssuper hungry and their stomach
is growling and they're sayingthey're not hungry.
Or we say are you okay?
When someone looks super upsetand they say I'm totally fine,
(23:05):
we say, are you okay?
When someone looks super upsetand they say I'm totally fine?
Incongruence is when what you'repicking up on and what a
person's saying feel totally inconflict with one another and
other people pick up on thatfrom us, when we don't believe
in what we're saying.
And what happens when weexperience incongruence is we
(23:27):
get a deep feeling of mistrustthat we don't really know why
we're feeling it, because whatwe're picking up is, on the
subconscious level, that 93%.
Or we have confusion.
We don't quite know what'sgoing on.
We're like I don't feel right,but I don't know why A sense
that something is off.
Or we just emotionally withdrawin relationships or on teams.
(23:50):
When we feel that feeling ofincongruence, we're like
something ain't right I don'tknow what it is, but I'm going
to withdraw, and other peoplewill do that with us as well
when we are not in line withwhat we think and feel.
So here are a few tools.
Number one, to make sure thatwe are not in line with what we
think and feel.
So here are a few tools.
Number one, to make sure thatwe are congruent, that what we
(24:11):
think and what we feel is inline with what we say and what
we do.
When we are congruent, our bodylanguage is going to
communicate to others exactlywhat is true for us.
And when we get in that placeof true authenticity, things
just start to flow with so muchmore joy, ease and lightness.
And secondly, when we feelincongruence coming off of
(24:36):
somebody else, I'm going to giveyou a couple of tools to check
up on it, because we don't feelgood when we pretend it's not
there.
If you've ever had a momentwhere you're like I don't think
that person's being honest withme.
For me, I just feel icky when Ileave and I don't follow up on
it or say something about it.
So I'm going to give you acouple tools to address that too
.
So, first of all, when you wantto be sure your body language
(24:59):
is communicating what you wantit to, you can use the practice
recorded it not too long agoI'll link that episode here to
see really drop down into yourbody, see how you're feeling and
then use the model which is inepisode 18, to see what you're
thinking and see if what you'rethinking and what you're feeling
(25:20):
actually match what you'resaying and doing.
Secondly, you can do what'scalled a three-channel check.
You can check the channel ofyour feeling, your thought and
your speech and action in amoment and just say do they all
match?
So those two things that I justsaid are really similar, but a
(25:43):
three channel check can be realfast if you just need it on the
go.
Then if you're feeling like I amactually not congruent.
I'm not in line.
What I'm thinking, what I'msaying, is not actually in line
with how I'm feeling.
You can ask yourself this whatwould I actually say here?
What would I really say if Iwasn't filtering myself?
(26:06):
Write it down, coach yourselftowards saying it.
You can ask yourself does mybody feel like a yes or a no
right now?
Drop down into the body.
It always tells the truth.
Ask myself what's the tone Iwant to use and is that how it
came out?
Ask myself what's the tone Iwant to use and is that how it
(26:28):
came out?
Or just the question when youwant to reflect when did I last
feel out of alignment betweenwhat I said and what I felt?
What did my body want to sayinstead?
How could I practice morecongruent communication next
time?
Those are all questions thatyou can ask to make sure that
your body language iscommunicating what you want it
to.
(26:49):
And then, when someone else justfeels off like what they're
saying is not matching what theyfeel like to you, you can say
you know what?
I heard you say this, but I'mnoticing this other thing in
your tone.
Can I check in on that, justlike that?
Hey, these two things don'tfeel the same.
(27:09):
Can you tell me about that?
Can I check in on that?
Is this just a respectful wayto ask about it?
And a second question you cansay is you're saying this
decision feels good, but Inoticed you paused inside when
you said it.
Do you want to talk about that?
So you're just calling into theconversation what is unspoken
(27:31):
in the space and it opens a door.
Just be ready to practice yourlistening skills if you are
going to go there.
All right, so we've got someamazing studies today.
First, we've got some amazingsayings.
Feel free to use those and textme which ones are your favorite
, or message me through whatevermeans.
I'm hot, serious.
I want you to do that.
(27:52):
Secondly, we've got somestudies to show how important
nonverbal communication is.
And then, lastly, we talkthrough some things that you can
do to practice congruence inyourself so you can give off the
nonverbal communication thatmatches your authentic self.
And lastly, a couple ofquestions that you can use to
check in when someone around youneeds a little bit of support
(28:15):
to get congruent with themselves.
And really what you're doingthere is just saying, hey, I'm
noticing this.
So whether they're congruent ornot is up to them, but you can
be most authentic when you wantto in calling out incongruence
for yourself.
Just asking for some clarity.
That's what I've got for youtoday.
My friends, the book that Irecommend today is Culture Code
(28:38):
by Daniel Coyle.
I am going to be bringing it upagain, talking about belonging
and all kinds of other goodstuff, but I hope you enjoyed
this first look.
I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
If you like what you're hearing on the podcast.
You got to come and join us inthe Bloom Room.
This is a year-round membershipwhere we take all of these
concepts and we apply them toreal life in a community where
we have each other's backs andwe bring out the best in each
other.
We're all there to make ourideas real, one idea at a time.
(29:19):
I'll see you in the bloom room.
Welcome to the Bloom your Mind Podcast, where we take
all of your ideas for what youwant and we turn them into real
things.
I'm your host, Certified CoachMarie McDonald.
Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello everybody and welcome to episode 129 of the
Bloom your Mind podcast.
Okay, I've been thinking aboutthese phrases that I'm going to
share in some way, probably onInstagram, because they've been
delighting me so much, but Ithought I would start our
episode before I get into ourreal content of what your body
is saying.
(00:48):
I wanted to share some of thesesayings that I've heard lately
that have completely delightedme.
So the first one last week,after we had finished these two
days of training that I told youabout last week, my business
partner and I were walkingthrough the airport and it had
been quite a day, quite atwo-day period, very full, very
(01:10):
magnificent.
We were pretty reamed from thedates of wonderful connection
with people that we loved andtraining and speaking and
thinking and all of the stufftraveling.
So we're walking through theairport at the very end of the
second of two very long days andmy business partner and my dear
(01:33):
friend Maggie looks at me andshe's like I wonder what I look
like right now.
And then she shakes her headand she says nevermind, it's
none of my business what I looklike right now.
She says nevermind, it's noneof my business what I look like
right now, and this sentencemade me laugh so hard and filled
(01:54):
me with delight.
I'm always talking to people incoaching about how it is
actually none of our businesswhat the people around us think
about us.
What they think about us is amirror of themselves, and we can
waste so much energy and timeand effort guessing what people
think about us and then changingour behavior to adapt to what
we think they think about us,and it's such a rabbit hole that
(02:17):
is not regenerative in any way.
When someone approaches us andwants to share feedback with us,
hey, that's a different story.
We're going to listen, we'regoing to connect, we're going to
be great listeners, practiceactive listening, all that good
stuff to learn about how we'reimpacting people around us right
, which still may be a mirror ofthem, but we might get some
(02:38):
good insight out of it.
Or when it's something wereally care about and we can see
that they're all kind of messedup emotionally, we can check in
and see what's going on, butmost of the time, it is none of
our business what other peoplethink about us, and that really
is a shocking release and relieffor a lot of my clients when
they really are spending a lotof time thinking about what
(03:01):
people think about them.
When they start thinking it'snone of my business, can they
let a lot of stuff go.
So she just like made thatsentence and she applied it to
what she looks like, whichreally delighted me.
It's none of my business whatother people what I look like
right now.
It's none of my business whatpeople see.
May you take that and love it.
(03:21):
Also, I was going on a doubledate the other night and I
walked up and the person that wewere going on the date with
said she saw my outfit and shesaid, yes, you understood the
assignment.
This sentence made my night.
It was such an affirmation ofmy outfit and that I looked cute
but also cracked me up, and Iknow that this has been around
(03:44):
for many years, but I am such afan of using that sentence.
You understood the assignmentWell, at the same time thinking
it's none of my business what Ilook like.
These are fabulous right.
Another one that I love camefrom my son when he was little.
Instead of saying I'm deadserious, he said I'm hot,
serious, little.
(04:06):
Instead of saying I'm deadserious, he said I'm hot,
serious, and we use that a lotof the time to say that we're
real serious.
The fourth one is that when I'mlate and I text my husband,
ever since I first was datinghim 15 years ago, he will text
me back and say get over here,which I just think is the best
response.
It's like the opposite ofpassive, aggressive behavior.
(04:28):
It's the opposite of passiveaggression.
It's like passive support.
He's telling me not only is itimportant to him that I'm not
important to him that I'm late,but literally he's not even
commenting on that because whathe cares about is having me next
to him.
This is the best.
Then two more for you.
I just thought this would be anentertaining way to start our
(04:51):
podcast today.
So we've got.
It's none of my business what Ilook like, it's got you and
we've got you understood theassignment.
We've got hot, serious, we'vegot get over here.
And then this guy in thistraining that I was leading
called his need to learnfeedback skills.
He called it a hole in his game.
I loved that so much to usethis sports reference to talk
(05:16):
about what we need to learn inour gaps in communication skills
.
And then another person rightnext to him said that the
feedback framework we wereteaching was a cheat code for
good communication, like takingthis gaming reference and
applying it to communicationskills.
I love it.
So these are some phrases.
I've got more and I'm going towrite a post in an email about
(05:37):
them just because I thinkthey're so fun, and I've been
collecting them, so may theydelight you too.
Today, our real content is totalk about what your body is
saying and what your brain isregistering, is hearing that you
don't even know, that you'repicking up on, and this
information that is under thesurface of what we think we are
(06:00):
basing our perceptions off of.
It is actually informing ourdecisions day in and day out,
and what I'm talking about hereis nonverbal communication.
I'm going to start by sharingsome research that I got real
nerdy digging into.
I really enjoyed researchingthis topic and some amazing
(06:21):
studies that I found within theresearch that were really kind
of mind-bending for me, and thenI'm going to end by sharing how
you can be more aware of whatyou're communicating with
nonverbal communication of alldifferent types, and give you
some tools to use also whenyou're not sure somebody else is
being straight up with you,when their nonverbal
(06:41):
communication maybe doesn'tmatch their verbal communication
what they're saying.
The reason this is so importantis because, as we're making our
ideas real, so many of us arereally focused in on things that
are interactive in some waywith people.
Either we need people's ideason our idea, we need their
buy-in, their support, or ideasactually involve them.
(07:02):
We want them to come togatherings or communities.
I'll talk a little bit aboutthat more later but it's so
important to be aware of whatwe're communicating.
When we talk about our idea,we're giving all kinds of
signals about how much webelieve in it, how much we think
someone else should believe init, how committed we are to our
idea, and so really generatingsome awareness about this can
(07:27):
help you to come across in anauthentic and sincere way.
And again, I'll talk later onabout how this is not about
power posing or faking till youmake it.
It really isn't.
I'm going to give you sometools for how you can be
congruent in your mindset and inyour nonverbal communication.
So, first of all, your body istalking.
So is mine.
(07:47):
Some theorists believe that 93%of our communication is
nonverbal 93%, that only 7% isverbal, that 55% of it is our
tone and 37% of it is our bodylanguage.
Well, as I was researching, Ifound that this information came
(08:09):
from a guy who presented it inthe 1960s, so it's old and it
has held up relatively well.
But I wanted to learn some more.
So I started reading a bookcalled the Culture Code by
Daniel Coyle, which is notspecifically about body language
.
It's about how to createcommunities where people feel
(08:29):
belonging and where people feela strong sense of connection to
one another, which I'm all about, but the first part of it, the
whole first third, is aboutbelonging, and the first part of
that section is about bodylanguage, and he has some
incredible studies in there onnonverbal communication.
What they found in theirresearch was mind-blowing for me
(08:51):
.
I'm going to share more fromthis brilliant person, this
author, in a different podcast,because Coyle has a ton of
really important things to sayon how to create belonging and
many of our ideas, as I saidmentioned earlier, are focused
in on that on creatingbusinesses, communities,
families, gathering spaces,friendships that feel connecting
(09:12):
and that feel have a strongsense of belonging.
So more episodes on that in thefuture.
But today is all about what ourbodies are saying that we don't
realize and what our brains arereading in other people that we
also don't pick up on.
So first, coil was able to boildown the main signals of
(09:34):
belonging.
It's called a sociometer isthis whole sort of collection of
things that signal all thesebody language signifiers and
actions that we do in groupsthat signify connection and
belonging.
And because these are allboiled down, it makes them
(09:55):
measurable so we can measure thenonverbal communication that's
going on between two people ingroups and actually create some
real quantitative data fromthese studies.
So some of the sociometers thatthey use are things like
proximity, how close peoplestand to one another, and when
there is a lot of sense ofbelonging we stand closer not
(10:17):
too close, but closer.
Eye contact, like strong,direct eye contact between
people, all the different peoplein a group.
Mimicry, which is kind of, as itsounds, mirroring each other's
behavior, mirroring each other'sbody language, energy, having
energetic exchanges betweenpeople in a group.
Turn-taking, and I find thisone to be so important.
(10:40):
Turn-taking meaning thateverybody in a group pretty much
speaks the same amount andnobody speaks a super like lot
more than everyone else.
No one is super dominant in thegroup and I find that also
connected to that is that peopledon't interrupt each other in
really strong communities wherethere's a strong sense of
(11:03):
belonging.
Everybody speaks mostly in thesame amount.
Everybody gets a turn andpeople really don't interrupt
each other gets a turn andpeople really don't interrupt
each other.
People also pay attention byleaning forward and giving
someone the full focus of theirattention when others are
speaking.
We can also measure vocal pitchso that it's excited and tuned
(11:26):
in but not aggressive.
We can measure the consistencyof emphasis, so we're kind of
speaking in a cadence that isconsistent, and whether
everybody talks to everybodyelse in a group.
So it's not just little clickybehavior but everybody's talking
to everybody else.
And physical touch high fives,fist bumps, shoulder pats, all
(11:47):
little hugs, all those littlesignifiers that people are close
.
So I wanted to give you thatlist so you have in mind a
visual.
That was helpful for me.
I like looked it up ahead oftime so that I could understand
what are we looking for here,when we're looking for body
language that really connectspeople, what does it look like?
Well, those are the sociometersthat we're going to talk about
in the next couple of studies,these two studies I wanted to
(12:09):
tell you about that Coyleactually talks about in his book
.
That indicated some reallyinteresting insights around body
language and non-verbalcommunication.
Okay, the first of the twostudies I wanted to tell you
about is the good apple and thebad apple.
Coyle put together a studywhere there was a group of
people that were actually doingwhat I like to call a design
(12:33):
challenge, which is because Icome from the design thinking
world.
We did a lot of this back there, and these groups of people
were given a set of materialsand some design constraints is
what I would call it A bunch ofspaghetti noodles and a
marshmallow, which is kind of aheavy thing, and they were
supposed to build a really talltower with the marshmallow at
(12:53):
the top.
Believe it or not, I've donethis activity many times and
within this activity they set upthese groups that were each
attempting to make these towers,and there's a lot of
interesting stuff in this bookthat you should read about it if
you're interested in this.
But the thing I want to focusin on is that when groups were
(13:16):
all together talking about theirideas in this study, they
introduced someone called a badapple.
His job was to play a character,either an Eeyore type, which is
like a downer, a depressing guythat's always bummed about all
the ideas doesn't like anything.
Or number two, a jerk who'sjust really aggressive and
(13:37):
defiant and deviant and is mean,probably loud, interrupting
everybody.
Or a slacker, someone who'swithholding of their effort and
is just like putting their headdown on the desk and thinks it's
all lame, okay.
So what happened is, time aftertime after time, group after
group after group after group,when this one person either the
(14:01):
Eeyore, the slacker or the jerkwas introduced into the group,
the entire group of 20 pluspeople took on that behavior.
So if the slacker was there andhe was like lying his head on
the table and was like what's upwith all this, we don't care
about it, other people startedlaying their head on the table
too and they started not puttingthat much effort into the
(14:21):
project, even when afterwardsyou would ask them and they
would say, yeah, we tried ourhardest.
It was this contagious energy,the body language, the vibe, the
nonverbal communication wascontagious With the Eeyore when
it was all oh, what are we evendoing here?
Why are we spending our timelike this?
The whole group took that on,time after time after time until
(14:44):
okay.
So first of all, that reallysurprised me that one person
could be so contagious in theirnegative nonverbal and verbal
sort of contribution to a groupthat they infected everybody so
consistently.
I know that can happen, butevery single time it happened
what?
(15:05):
Until they introduced the goodapple, there was one group who
had a random dude in there thatwasn't paid, he wasn't a part of
the study and he is what theycall the good apple.
He counteracted the bad applesnonverbal energy and verbal
(15:26):
contributions that were kind oftaken down the group and what
they found in him is that hisnonverbal communication
consistently was good medicinefor the group.
So when the bad apple would saysomething jerky, he would lean
forward, say something warm andkind and then ask the group what
they thought.
Time after time after time itactually turned the group around
(15:50):
.
And so what I took from thisamazing study, of course, is
both how totally contagiousenergy is and how it doesn't
have to be so our goodboundaries with other people's
energy.
If someone in our group or inour space has nonverbal
communication, that's reallybumming us out and it's really
(16:10):
sapping the energy.
Nonverbal communication, that'sreally bumming us out and it's
really sapping the energy.
If someone is in our space likethat, we can have our beautiful
boundaries in place andintentionally not allow it to be
contagious for ourselves.
But what's so interesting?
I always knew that part.
But what's so interesting aboutthis study is it shows that if
(16:30):
we are resilient enough inoverriding that negativity with
our own connection and warmthand engagement of the other
people around us, we canactually counteract a negative
energy in a group.
And that a lot of what thisgood apple did was just his body
language and his tone.
He didn't speak that much, soit just showed me how contagious
(16:54):
and effective our good bodylanguage, connecting, warm
presence, can be in a group orin connecting with other
individuals.
We don't even have to say thatmuch.
Okay, the second study was evenmore impressive and wild.
It was a group of angelinvestors who were hearing a
whole bunch of entrepreneurspresent their ideas for
(17:17):
businesses.
They were all deciding who theywere going to invest in and
they were rating theentrepreneurs' presentations.
So what we found was thatbelonging cues mattered more
than anything that someone saidin their presentation, that they
(17:38):
could predict with perfectaccuracy who the angel investors
would invest in based on thepresence and the sociometers of
the person presenting.
So the angel investors thoughtthat they were ranking business
plans on really rational ideas,like the originality of an idea
or its fit for the currentmarket.
But what they found is, whenthey only looked at the idea on
paper, they ranked everythingreally differently and what they
(18:01):
were actually responding to washow much a person believed in
their idea, how confident theywere when they were speaking and
how determined they were tomake something work
no-transcript rather than theidea itself, even though they
(18:23):
believed they were investing inthe idea.
That's how strongly thenonverbal communication
influences our decision-making.
That 93% was 100% predictivefor this angel investing.
They could predict with 100%accuracy.
(18:45):
That just blew my mind, isn'tthat wild?
So my husband and I werebreaking down this body language
thing and saying that it'sinteresting in that study about
the angel investors because, youknow, the investors went with
the entrepreneurs who are themost confident, committed,
resilient, and some of thosethings feel a little bit like a
chicken or an egg, and some ofthose things feel a little bit
like a chicken or an egg.
(19:06):
So some of those things feelingconfident about an idea,
feeling committed to an ideamight actually be the product of
having a winning idea that youknow is going to kill it.
So in that way, maybe the bodylanguage is an accurate measure
for how successful an idea mightbe.
But also it's possible that anentrepreneur who's presenting
(19:27):
that data could build thosesignals of confidence, that
belief in their idea, when thoseare not really true, maybe
because they aren't using greatlogic, they haven't done great
research, or maybe they're justreally optimistic or really
believe in themselves, eventhough the idea that they have
isn't that great, which wouldmean that that body language is
(19:49):
not an accurate representationof how successful an idea might
be.
It could go either way.
Then again, body language thatshows someone's confident,
committed, determined, resilientmight mean that no matter how
good or bad an idea is, theymight have what it takes to make
it work out in the world.
But maybe too much confidencein a person is a fatal mistake,
(20:09):
because ultimately an idea or aproduct has to stand on its own
when it's out in the world infront of a consumer.
There's lots of conflictingthought here about how
predictive the body languageactually is of the idea, but
what I'm actually saying is thatthe angel investors ultimately
(20:30):
made their decision on who wouldbe the right choice to invest
in, not on the actual productitself.
And body language is superimportant, but most of us, most
of the time, are not aware thatwe're making our decisions based
(20:52):
on it.
We're not aware about whatwe're communicating with it and
that it is so influential as oneof our primary lenses.
So, while it might've beensuper important and given really
important data to the angelinvestors, if they had picked
apart what they were seeing thatwas, body language and what
they were seeing on the actualdata of a written report, maybe
(21:15):
it would have been reallyhelpful, but because it was all
mixed in, it was the onlyinformation they were making
their decision off of.
So you can see, it's importantto be aware of.
So we're not just walkingaround supporting the most
confident people around us,being attracted to the people
that believe in themselves themost, instead of the people with
(21:36):
the best ideas.
It's so important that we knowthat we're communicating
non-verbally what is under thesurface, even when we think that
we're not.
So what do we do here?
What do we do?
You might expect that what I'mgoing to say is that you should
start doing power poses or matchsomeone else's body language
(22:00):
intentionally, which is thatmimicking behavior, called
mirroring, that we automaticallydo when we're connecting with
someone important to us.
But that's not what I'm goingto say.
I'm not going to suggest thatyou fake it till you make it or
that you try any tricks.
What I want to suggest here issome tools that you can use to
(22:20):
sync up what you're saying onthe outside with what's
happening on the inside.
To sync what you think and youfeel up what you're saying on
the outside with what'shappening on the inside.
To sync what you think and youfeel with what you say and you
do.
And what that does is itcreates something called
congruence.
When we as human beings feelincongruence, it's that feeling
(22:41):
in the pit of our stomach, andwhen we feel it about someone
else, we want to listen to it.
It's that experience.
When we see someone that lookssuper hungry and their stomach
is growling and they're sayingthey're not hungry.
Or we say are you okay?
When someone looks super upsetand they say I'm totally fine,
(23:05):
we say, are you okay?
When someone looks super upsetand they say I'm totally fine?
Incongruence is when what you'repicking up on and what a
person's saying feel totally inconflict with one another and
other people pick up on thatfrom us, when we don't believe
in what we're saying.
And what happens when weexperience incongruence is we
(23:27):
get a deep feeling of mistrustthat we don't really know why
we're feeling it, because whatwe're picking up is, on the
subconscious level, that 93%.
Or we have confusion.
We don't quite know what'sgoing on.
We're like I don't feel right,but I don't know why A sense
that something is off.
Or we just emotionally withdrawin relationships or on teams.
(23:50):
When we feel that feeling ofincongruence, we're like
something ain't right I don'tknow what it is, but I'm going
to withdraw, and other peoplewill do that with us as well
when we are not in line withwhat we think and feel.
So here are a few tools.
Number one, to make sure thatwe are not in line with what we
think and feel.
So here are a few tools.
Number one, to make sure thatwe are congruent, that what we
(24:11):
think and what we feel is inline with what we say and what
we do.
When we are congruent, our bodylanguage is going to
communicate to others exactlywhat is true for us.
And when we get in that placeof true authenticity, things
just start to flow with so muchmore joy, ease and lightness.
And secondly, when we feelincongruence coming off of
(24:36):
somebody else, I'm going to giveyou a couple of tools to check
up on it, because we don't feelgood when we pretend it's not
there.
If you've ever had a momentwhere you're like I don't think
that person's being honest withme.
For me, I just feel icky when Ileave and I don't follow up on
it or say something about it.
So I'm going to give you acouple tools to address that too
.
So, first of all, when you wantto be sure your body language
(24:59):
is communicating what you wantit to, you can use the practice
recorded it not too long agoI'll link that episode here to
see really drop down into yourbody, see how you're feeling and
then use the model which is inepisode 18, to see what you're
thinking and see if what you'rethinking and what you're feeling
(25:20):
actually match what you'resaying and doing.
Secondly, you can do what'scalled a three-channel check.
You can check the channel ofyour feeling, your thought and
your speech and action in amoment and just say do they all
match?
So those two things that I justsaid are really similar, but a
(25:43):
three channel check can be realfast if you just need it on the
go.
Then if you're feeling like I amactually not congruent.
I'm not in line.
What I'm thinking, what I'msaying, is not actually in line
with how I'm feeling.
You can ask yourself this whatwould I actually say here?
What would I really say if Iwasn't filtering myself?
(26:06):
Write it down, coach yourselftowards saying it.
You can ask yourself does mybody feel like a yes or a no
right now?
Drop down into the body.
It always tells the truth.
Ask myself what's the tone Iwant to use and is that how it
came out?
Ask myself what's the tone Iwant to use and is that how it
(26:28):
came out?
Or just the question when youwant to reflect when did I last
feel out of alignment betweenwhat I said and what I felt?
What did my body want to sayinstead?
How could I practice morecongruent communication next
time?
Those are all questions thatyou can ask to make sure that
your body language iscommunicating what you want it
to.
(26:49):
And then, when someone else justfeels off like what they're
saying is not matching what theyfeel like to you, you can say
you know what?
I heard you say this, but I'mnoticing this other thing in
your tone.
Can I check in on that, justlike that?
Hey, these two things don'tfeel the same.
(27:09):
Can you tell me about that?
Can I check in on that?
Is this just a respectful wayto ask about it?
And a second question you cansay is you're saying this
decision feels good, but Inoticed you paused inside when
you said it.
Do you want to talk about that?
So you're just calling into theconversation what is unspoken
(27:31):
in the space and it opens a door.
Just be ready to practice yourlistening skills if you are
going to go there.
All right, so we've got someamazing studies today.
First, we've got some amazingsayings.
Feel free to use those and textme which ones are your favorite
, or message me through whatevermeans.
I'm hot, serious.
I want you to do that.
(27:52):
Secondly, we've got somestudies to show how important
nonverbal communication is.
And then, lastly, we talkthrough some things that you can
do to practice congruence inyourself so you can give off the
nonverbal communication thatmatches your authentic self.
And lastly, a couple ofquestions that you can use to
check in when someone around youneeds a little bit of support
(28:15):
to get congruent with themselves.
And really what you're doingthere is just saying, hey, I'm
noticing this.
So whether they're congruent ornot is up to them, but you can
be most authentic when you wantto in calling out incongruence
for yourself.
Just asking for some clarity.
That's what I've got for youtoday.
My friends, the book that Irecommend today is Culture Code
(28:38):
by Daniel Coyle.
I am going to be bringing it upagain, talking about belonging
and all kinds of other goodstuff, but I hope you enjoyed
this first look.
I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
If you like what you're hearing on the podcast.
You got to come and join us inthe Bloom Room.
This is a year-round membershipwhere we take all of these
concepts and we apply them toreal life in a community where
we have each other's backs andwe bring out the best in each
other.
We're all there to make ourideas real, one idea at a time.
(29:19):
I'll see you in the bloom room.
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