Holiday Realities Inside Scientology - Scientology Secrets #22 - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Blown
for Good, Scientology Exposed.
I'm joined today by my lovelywife, Claire.

SPEAKER_04 (00:34):
Hey, hey, hey.
Good to see everyone this fineSunday.

SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
We um we've got a lot of um fun videos that are
gonna be coming up in December,but most of them are gonna be
prerecorded because I'm notgonna be here on Sundays for a
few weeks.
So um we've got that coming up.
We've got um Claire's gonna dosome interviews.
I did uh uh a video, and um, sothat's something uh different,

(01:03):
fun and different that we haveto look to look forward to.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
Yes, and of course we have Thanksgiving coming up
and Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10):
Um we have Serge Obolensky visiting us for
Thanksgiving.
We'll post some pictures on thecommunity page to show the
festivities.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
Yeah, that's it's always fun when he gets to come
and uh hang out with uh us andthe boys.
Um we've got uh as we normallydo, we we give a few minutes for
people to get in to the uh videowhen we're doing the live.
We've already got almost all ofthe people that I normally
accept as the threshold when westart.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
So if you want to jam through some of these real
quick, we can do that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44):
Sure thing.
Um I'll just put them up and youcan Brian, hi from Misty
Portland, Oregon.
We love our SPs.
Yay.
December Topez 22, happy Sundayfrom West Virginia.
Janine, hi from a cold and snowyNetherlands.
Yeah, we're very distraught herein Colorado at the moment since
we've not yet had our first snowof the season.

SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Here, where we live, where we are.

SPEAKER_04 (02:08):
KP6541, hi from Tempe, Arizona.
Angel Cat, hi all from Sunland,California.
Trevinon, good evening from theNetherlands.
Good to see you.
Cinderboots, hello from Bend,Oregon.
Nice Sherry, hi Mark and Claire,and chat from Minnesota.
Hi, Sherry.

(02:29):
Cher, hello from theNetherlands.
Boom, pet Betsy Sue, greetingsfrom Cameron, North Carolina.
Music Maven333, hi from cloudycold Rhode Island.
Poodlebone, hello from New YorkCity.
Katrina, good evening, guys andgals.
Watching with Becky tonight herein cold writing.

(02:50):
All right.
Hello, necessary trouble in thehouse.
Hello, everyone, from the lastwarm day in eastern Montana.
Winter starts tomorrow.
Uh old Techie, hi from Nebraska.
Hey, hey.
Katherine Olson, hello from thebeautiful silvery skied
Willamette Valley.

SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Willametta.

SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
It's Willamette, dammit.
Becky, big brother fan.
Hello, everyone.
Have a great Sunday fromReading, UK.
Nice.
Magda, hi from Washington.

SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Nice.

SPEAKER_04 (03:23):
Yes.
Aline, good to see you fromPhiladelphia.
Kathy, hi from Maryland.
I hope all of us are doing well.
Yes, we are.
Folksmasher, evening fromFolkestone, UK.
Firebirds Child, hey y'all.
Hey from Philadelphia.
Good to see you.
Deborah, happy Thanksgiving fromWisconsin Dells.

(03:44):
Yes, happy Thanksgiving.
Grace Case, hello from Austin,Texas.
Hookham.
Meredith Rowe.
Hi from Parker.
All right.
There you go.
We know where that is.
Yeah.
Jacob Harky.
Hello, Mark Clare in chatwatching from Monrovia,
California.

SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Nice.

SPEAKER_04 (04:00):
Critically Lau.
Bonjour from Montreal.

SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Bonjour.

SPEAKER_04 (04:04):
Bonjour.
Mario Von Motz.
Hello to all from Germany.
Nice.
Hi, Mario.

SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (04:13):
There you go.

SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
As always, if you do uh tell us in the comments where
you're watching from at the endof the video, we'll do a
giveaway.
We're going to give away one ofthese uh little Davy dolls.
Fake Navy Davy, Captain SpaceDavy, whatever you want to call
him.
Damn it, Davy doll.

SPEAKER_03 (04:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
And um, yeah, comment.
You get automatically uh enteredin to win.
Everything there's at least oneperson who's gonna win one of
those things.

SPEAKER_04 (04:41):
Yep, for sure.
Courtesy of the SP shop.

SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
Nice, yes.

SPEAKER_04 (04:45):
We love sticking it to the labels.

SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
Yeah.
Sticking it to the labels.

SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
Sorry, you had to be there.
They know what I'm talkingabout.

SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
Okay.
If you say so.

SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
Um, okay.
You ready for we're gonna do ourour thing today?

SPEAKER_04 (05:02):
Yes.
So, oh yeah, I don't need two ofme.
Yeah, so we figured that giventhat we're coming up on the
holidays, um, it would beinteresting to talk about the
various different iterations ofholidays in Scientology.
Obviously, there's civilianScientologists, there's staff,
uh, and then there's members ofthe C organization.

(05:23):
And the holidays look verydifferent for all of those
different segments of theScientology population.

SPEAKER_02 (05:29):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
But we get asked this a lot because it's like,
well, do Scientologists believein Christmas?
Yeah.
Do they believe in this?
Do they believe in that?

SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Okay, well, let's do it then.

SPEAKER_04 (05:41):
Yes.
Do Scientologists celebrateThanksgiving?

SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
So there's a picture of us up on there.

SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
I know.
So we we included some of thephotos.
It's funny to me that we have in14, 15 years that we were there
and we were married, we haveabout 14 pictures, one for each
year.
We don't actually maybe we don'teven have one for every year.

SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
We don't.

SPEAKER_04 (06:05):
We don't.

SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
But they do this thing.
We where we were in the Corganization was at this place
called the International Base orthe Int base or the Gold Base.
And that's uh in Gilman HotSprings, California.
And at that property, you thethe Sea Org members there might
not see their families for yearsand years and years, or even

(06:27):
decades for some of thesepeople.
So what they do is they have umthey set up like a set in the
dining hall uh with thefireplace as the background, and
they have some chairs set upthere, and they encourage the C
org members to go and sit downand they can take a photo of

(06:49):
them, and then they will printthose photos.
They have a whole uh filmprocessing laboratory at the
base, so they can process theprints, and then you you have to
buy, you have to pay for allthis.
Correct.
It's not free.

SPEAKER_04 (07:02):
And also, this would be done on a Sunday, usually in
early December, because onSundays no.
Saturdays, I guess.
It didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
It would be on Saturdays because we would be in
civvies on Saturday.
Yes, after you do renovationsduring the day, you wear grubby
clothes.
Then you go home and change fordinner after renovations.
Right.
And usually SeWork members willput on something um a little
nice.
Yes.
Sometimes people just wear at-shirt and jeans, they don't

(07:34):
really care.

SPEAKER_04 (07:35):
Yeah, but you were supposed to dress up a little
bit.
And especially on this day, theywould say, Okay, we're doing
fan, you know, Christmas photos,so you can maintain good roads
and fair weather with yourfamilies who you haven't seen in
decades, but you can send them apicture that shows Christmas.
Yeah.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
So we would do that, and we'd send them to my dad,
and we'd send them to my mom,and we'd send them to your
parents, and that way they cansee that we were still alive.

SPEAKER_04 (08:06):
Right.
And um, I don't think a photo ctechnically counts as proof of
life.
Sure it does.
It was at least a gesture atbest.
Sure it does.

SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
You can't send a photo to somebody if you're
dead.

SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
Well, yeah, but you know, it's not like in that
moment.

SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Yeah.
Either way, um, in terms ofcelebrating Thanksgiving, we
would normally in the Seorg atthe Amp Base, we would have
sometimes a 15-minute mealbreak, and sometimes we would
have a 30-minute meal break.

SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
But on Thanksgiving, we'd have a 45-minute meal
break.
Sometimes I do remember one yearI think we had an hour
Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
I wasn't there for that.

SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Anyway, I could have just I could have just been
missing.

SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
Sometimes if you've been eating meals for uh if
you've been having 15-minutemeal breaks for like a year,
yeah, 45 minutes can feel likean hour.

SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
That's true.
That's true.
But we would have onThanksgiving, we would have
turkey and we'd have stuffingand we'd have ham and we would
have, you know, as close to aThanksgiving dinner as could be
made for, you know, 600 peopleat once.

SPEAKER_03 (09:26):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
It was a, you know, it was a still a chow line, and
you'd still go get a platter offood.
And we would almost always justdish it up exactly the same.
It'd just be differentingredients for that one meal.

SPEAKER_04 (09:37):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
And um, but that is it.
There was no we never gavethanks.

SPEAKER_04 (09:44):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
We never it was just you just had a you just instead
of having 15 or 30 minutes, youhad 45 minutes.
It was like that was the thing.

SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
That was a slight blip in the mundane existence of
life on the imp base, right?

SPEAKER_01 (09:56):
Yeah, that was the celebration, an extra 15
minutes.
That's how they treated it.
Now, I do want to say, for allof you out there saying, well, I
used to be in Scientology and wehad a big well, yeah, if you're
just a regular Joe SchmoScientologist and you're not in
the C organization, then yourThanksgiving is very different.

SPEAKER_03 (10:15):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
And I would say probably a majority of
Scientologists do celebrateThanksgiving.

SPEAKER_04 (10:22):
Definitely.
When we first arrived in theU.S., when my family moved to
the U.S.
when I was 13, um, that firstThanksgiving, we went to other
Scientologists' house and theyhad a giant Thanksgiving spread.

SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Is it the Stolers?

SPEAKER_04 (10:37):
No, it was the Sorfs.
Sue Sarf.

SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Drew Sorf.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
I know them.
They're I want to say they gaveum they did gave some serious
money to uh scientists.

SPEAKER_04 (10:47):
Yeah, I didn't I never knew them really very
well, but they were like friendsof friends, and and I just
remember distinctly becausecoming from England where you
don't do that massive spread.
Yes, we have Christmas, but it'sjust not the same as an American
style, and the food coma thathit me was just god-awful.

SPEAKER_01 (11:08):
Yeah, that's what football's for.
You eat all that food and thenyou just watch some football.

SPEAKER_04 (11:14):
Yes.
Um I did want to mention though,uh a funny Thanksgiving memory
that I have from when we were atthe headquarters.

SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
Yeah.
So in I'm gonna switch back overto this if you're gonna yap all
the time.

SPEAKER_04 (11:26):
Oh well, thanks.
So July 99 was when I broke myleg and almost lost my foot in a
motorcycle accident.
And, you know, that was a wholesaga, which is not the point of
this story.
But fast forward to Thanksgivingof that year, so 90 1999, I had
to do physical therapy to learnto walk again.

(11:47):
And so Jocelyn, the medicalperson, would drive me to um
town to do physical therapy withDr.
Trent White randomly.
And um, so the when I went thereat right after Thanksgiving, the
conversation was so awkward.

SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Oh, because he was like, hey, what did you do?

SPEAKER_04 (12:07):
He's like, hey, so what did you do for
Thanksgiving?
Oh, um, I had a nice dinner.
Oh, did you see your family?
Nope.
Oh, what did you do the rest ofthe day?
Ah, I worked.
I wasn't very like uh didn'tdidn't put on a good short story

(12:28):
in that instance.

SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
That would have been amazing if you would have said,
Oh yeah, we had a 45-minute mealbreak instead of a 15-minute
meal break.

SPEAKER_04 (12:37):
Right.
Would have been like, he wasalso the guy that asked me,
like, hey, I heard rumors thatthey have machine guns um buried
in the Golden Era golf course.
I'm like, oh yeah, people makeup all kinds of crazy stories
about where we work.
That was it.

SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Nice.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (12:57):
So so did you celebrate Thanksgiving with your
family before you joined the seaorganization?

SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
I can't remember.
I don't ever remember.
You know, it's really weird.
I don't ever remember sittingdown at a table and having a
dinner.
We never we never really had adining room anywhere we lived.

SPEAKER_04 (13:22):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
We just we lived in apartments or we lived in we
lived with uh another my mom'sboyfriend.
We lived with him and hisdaughter for a while in Venice
Beach.
And we didn't really have adinner table.
We had a table in front of theTV, and that's where we would
usually just eat dinner.
We would just eat dinner andwatch TV.

(13:44):
So when the I don't remember ifwe did anything for
Thanksgiving.
We might have had a like aThanksgiving meal, but we didn't
sit at a table and you know talkand do all that.
That's a very, that was a very,very foreign concept to me.
And since we have kids and we'veuh had a family, we tried for

(14:07):
many, many years to always, nomatter what, if we didn't,
because you know, you'reworking, I'm working, I'm not
usually around during the day,but then at dinner I'll come
home.
And we always try to have a afamily dinner at the table at
least once a day for dinner, andthen um and we go out and we do

(14:29):
stuff like that.
But um, yeah, I don't reallyeven when I live with my dad, we
didn't we had um my dad had thisapartment in Hollywood across
from the Celebrity Center in uhin California, and he and when
we moved from Kansas City, mymother used to work at a fast
food restaurant called Hardy's,and they were renovating the

(14:52):
restaurant, and she got some ofthe tables from the old
restaurant, these four mica umlike uh chairs and and tables,
and it's all bolted into a steelframe.
And when we moved to California,my dad had that in his

(15:12):
apartment.
That was our dinner table.
We had a Hardy's booth.

SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
Wow.
That's memorable.

SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
Two benches, and it had a table, and it would fit
four people, and it was usuallyonly just me and my dad.
Sometimes my sister would bethere, and that was our dinner
table at my dad's apartment.
And then I really can't everremember having like a uh every
night having a meal when I wasever with my mom at her place.

(15:41):
She was super, super hardcoreScientology.
My dad was, he didn't wantednone of it.
So it was a little bit, youknow, back and forth.

SPEAKER_04 (15:51):
But um we we were not so in the years that I was
technically a civilianScientologist, so from when we
arrived in the U.S.
at when I was 13 until 16.
So just those three years, uh,we were not allowed to have a TV
in our house.

SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Yeah, my mom never we I don't think we ever had a
TV at my mom's house.
When when she moved in with theguy in Venice, um, he was all
about he had movies and TV, hehad a VHS collection that was,
you know, hundreds and hundredsof tapes and all kinds of stuff.
But um, but we would watch TVall the time when we lived

(16:28):
there.

SPEAKER_04 (16:29):
Yeah, I'm sure.
We my stepdad was the the headof the Beverly Hills mission.

SPEAKER_03 (16:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:34):
And they had one of those combo units, like the TV
with the the thing.
So he would bring that home onSaturday and rent a uh video
from Blockbuster, and then thatnight we would get to watch one
movie and then he would take itback the next day.

SPEAKER_03 (16:50):
Wow, that's hardcore.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (16:53):
Uh anyway, yeah.
All right.
Uh do Scientologists celebrateChristmas?
Um, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Well, they do.

SPEAKER_04 (17:03):
But they don't so celebrate to me.
That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
They don't believe in the the origin story of
Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 (17:11):
In fact, David and Shelly Miscavige both would
often say that all of thosetypes of holidays were heathen
or pagan, uh pagan, I think wasthe word they used.
Pagan holidays.
Why are you guys dressed incivilian clothing?
Oh, because it's uh, you know,blah blah blah holiday.
That's we don't we so and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
Celebr uh Scientologists celebrate the
receiving of gifts and thebuying of Scientology things for
other Scientologists as thosegifts.
So every I want to say everyOctober or November, Scientology
comes out with a Christmascatalog of all of the things

(17:57):
that you can buy fromScientology to give somebody.
And um, I saw a post, gosh, Iwant to say it was from apostate
Alex, that they're still sellingthe Scientology CD Walkman's.

SPEAKER_04 (18:14):
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
Because all of L.
Ron Hubbard's lectures are stillonly available on cassette and C
D.
So they sell a Sony Discman,which which I still have one of
those.

SPEAKER_04 (18:28):
Yeah, I think I I I I brought mine.

SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
That's the one I have.

SPEAKER_04 (18:32):
Oh, well then that's mine.
Yes, we have one, honey.

SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah.
Well, it's at my shop.

SPEAKER_04 (18:41):
Okay.
Well, lots of my stuff is at ourshop.

SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Um anyway.

SPEAKER_04 (18:54):
But I also wanted to say on a just stepping back for
a minute, because and again,this is part of why I thought we
should talk about this today.
Um, to me now with our family,yeah, Thanksgiving and Christmas
are both, regardless that youknow, what your beliefs are,
yeah, to me and us, it's so muchabout family.

SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
Totally.

SPEAKER_04 (19:16):
And you know, and that's that's where like Phil
and I talked about this a coupleof weeks ago on the Foundation
channel.
At this time of year, it can bewhat the because of the evil
practice of Scientologydisconnection, it can be very,
very hard for a lot of peoplewho have gone through that.
And the stories about that arejust they never cease to be

(19:39):
heartbreaking and devastating.

SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Yeah, and there are a lot of staff in the C
organization that do attempt togo home for the holidays.
Like if they were raised in afamily that did celebrate all
these, then they joined the Corganization, they will they
will petition, they will write awhat's called a CSW, completed
staff work to be able to allow,uh be allowed to go visit their

(20:04):
family.

SPEAKER_04 (20:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
And I want to say at the AMT base over the years, I
maybe only saw a handful ofpeople that were approved to go
do that.
It was very, very rare thatsomebody would would take off
for Thanksgiving or Christmas togo see their family.

SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
And then there's another interesting fact that
this happened every single yearat the AMPase.

unknown (20:26):
Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
If you are in the C organization and you get ill uh
for any reason, then you are uhlabeled uh PTS, a potential
trouble source.
And one of the things that theyoften look at is your family.
Who in your family is trying toget you to leave or to come for

(20:50):
Thanksgiving or a Christmas?
And and so if you do get sick,then you get investigated on who
it you if you're PTS inScientology uh policies and and
bulletins that Hubbard haswritten, then that means you
have somebody in your life thatyou're connected to who is a

(21:10):
suppressive person.
Yes.
That is the only reason you goPTS is if there's an SP that
you're connected to in some way.

SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Yeah, and that label came with punishments too.
For example, you wouldn't beallowed to drive if you could
drive in the first place.
If you could drive in the firstplace.

SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
But then you were there would be a certain other
restrictions that could beimposed on you if you were PTS.
Yes.
If you were labeled a potentialtrouble source.

SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
But historically Including that your completed
staff work would be denied.

SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah, oh yeah, 100%.
If you're that's true.
If you're sick, you can't leave.

SPEAKER_04 (21:43):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Because that means you're connected to an SP, and
likely you're going to meet upwith one of those SPs.
That's right.
So it's that's if you had asqueaky, squeaky, clean record
and your statistics were up andeverything was perfect, you
probably had a 1% chance ofgetting approved to go.

SPEAKER_04 (22:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
But if you were PTS, it that went down to zero for
sure.

SPEAKER_04 (22:06):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
But the thing that I was gonna say is that
traditionally and historicallyover all the years that we were
there, Sea Org members tend toget sick between November and
January.
Absolutely.
And people are sent toisolation, and it's a whole big
thing.
Yep.
And sometimes you could have 30or 40 people out sick.

SPEAKER_04 (22:29):
Um there there were actually a few times during
those months on a it didn'thappen every year, but I
remember a couple of instanceswhere ISO, isolation, which was
the designated area for sick SeaOrg members, which was like
anyone would get sick justwalking in that door.
Uh it was nasty.

(22:49):
It was packed, like, and theyhad to set up overflow space and
uh like there were that manysick staff.

SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Yeah.
It doesn't don't don't mind thefact that it's flu season at
that same time.

SPEAKER_03 (23:03):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
But in the C org, they attributed it to C org
members want to leave and go bewith the suppressive family
members.
So that's why they get sickduring Thanksgiving in that
Christmas season.
And so it was It's really sadthinking about it now.
Well, I know, but it was almostsort of if you wanted to go to

(23:28):
go for Thanksgiving or go forChristmas to see your family, it
was almost like, what's up withthis guy?

SPEAKER_04 (23:33):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
He's there's something going on with that guy
that he wants to go see hisfamily.
Who cares about your family?
They have they're not doinganything for the world.
You know, they they're you're ona mission to save humanity and
you want to go eat turkey andstuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
Yeah, it's off-purpose.
Quote, other fish to fry.

SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yeah, so I think they treat Christmas very
similarly because it's justlike, who cares about this?
This has nothing to do withanything.

SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
And so at the and I want to specifically stress this
isn't the sea organization wherewe were at at the Amp Base.

SPEAKER_03 (24:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
But you would work a hundred, 120 hours a week all
year long, and sometimes wedidn't even get Christmas off.

SPEAKER_04 (24:20):
Yeah.
Well, I was gonna say, so thispicture here of me with Jupiter,
yeah.
Um, this was in like I want tosay 92, 93.
Those in those early years, Ithink two or three of those
years, we actually got to have aday off at up at Big Bear,
California.

SPEAKER_02 (24:38):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (24:39):
For the day.
And then we had to be back atwork the next day.
But in later years, there wasnone of that, especially because
we're it was jamming right intothe New Year's event.
So of course, everybody had tobe laser focused.
And there would some some ofthose years there would be like,
well, if we get everything doneand approved for the event

(25:00):
before Christmas, yes, then youcan have Christmas.
But that never happened.

SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Yeah, and I also want to say there would be this
funny thing where we were in umGilman Hot Springs, California,
which is very close to Hemet andSan Yacento.
The nearest place that you couldjust go shopping was in Hemet.
There was a Walmart.

SPEAKER_03 (25:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
You could go there.

SPEAKER_03 (25:25):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
You could also um that's when we lived in town,
though.
That's when we lived in theapartments in town.
It was a they made it a lotharder for people to do that
once they all moved to theproperty.

SPEAKER_04 (25:38):
Yeah, and and to be fair, we moved basically
adjacent to the property in2000.
So the last four years that wewere there, we didn't live in
town anymore.
We lived on Sublet Road.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
If anything, we got to Jack and the Jack in the
Crack.
That was about the that was themain uh main uh destination just
because it was really, reallyclose to to Gilman Hot Springs.
Like it was like a five-minutemotorcycle drive.
Um but so what would happen isuh maybe a week or two before

(26:13):
Christmas, you might be able tosneak off to Walmart on Sunday
morning.

SPEAKER_04 (26:18):
Well, actually, some years um the staff would get a
bonus.

SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
Well, that's what's gonna I was gonna lead to that.
So that was sort of like if ifanything, you you the least you
could do is you could go toWalmart and you could buy a
card.

SPEAKER_04 (26:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Or something like that.
Because we didn't have a lot ofmoney.

SPEAKER_04 (26:35):
No, we did not.

SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
But then some years we would get like a hundred
dollar bonus for the year, yes,which is two whole weeks of pay
in one go.

SPEAKER_04 (26:46):
And they would send so it's kind of sad and bizarre
in thinking back on that.
Yeah, how much a hundred dollarsfeels like when you've been
getting$46 a week if you'relucky or nothing.
That's what I'm saying.
Like$100, you feel you like thethe normal, you know, real world

(27:08):
um concept of money is uh like aC a member of the C organization
just does not have that at all.

SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
Totally.
But then so some years, and thatwas this is mostly in those
early years as well, they wouldget a bunch of all the buses
that took us to and from thebase every day.
We would all get into thosebuses.

SPEAKER_04 (27:29):
And anybody who was approved to go, if you weren't
in any trouble, and you weren'ton the restricted list, meaning
you weren't even allowed toleave the property, even if you
lived in town, you had to sleepon the property.

SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Yeah, if you weren't on any of those lists and you
were good to go, you they woulddrive us to this place that was
called the Cabazon Outlets.
And it was it was just like anoutlet mall.
I want to say it was off the 10.
Yeah, the 10 freeway.

SPEAKER_04 (27:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
I uh interstate 10.
Yeah, and it was out near um,like I guess on the way to Palm
Springs or I think so.
It was like an hour from theproperty, I want to say.

SPEAKER_04 (28:06):
Yeah, 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, and um, and I remember the first time we went,
we got our bonus, and I was likesuper excited.
And I walked into a store and II wanted to get you something,
or I wanted to get my dadsomething.
I couldn't remember, but after Ibought you one thing, I was that
was it.
I was tapped out.
I was like, oh, this is a reallynice uh shirt or sweater or

(28:31):
something, and then I'd go andI'd be like, Oh, that'll be
eighty-nine dollars, and I'd belike, eighty-nine dollars for a
sweater?

SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Yeah, and then that would be like, I guess my dad's
getting a card.
And I didn't even have enough toget a card after that.

SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
Yeah, because we would also, we would be out in
the wild.

SPEAKER_04 (28:48):
Oh I know that's what I was gonna ask you about.
So I remember in the early yearsthat when we were married, that
maybe two or three times you andI got to go there together.
But after that, I didn't get togo anymore because I was on a
different schedule.
So I had to go on a different soI didn't get to go with you.

SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
That's right, because they only had a certain
amount of buses.
They couldn't take the entirebase on one day.
So they would take like maybeGolden Era would go on Saturday
and then RTC and CMO Int andExec Strata and all the other
places would go on a Sunday.
Yeah.
So and you couldn't i i it it'sit's funny now that I think

(29:28):
about it because you it would inin anywhere else in the world,
it'd be like, hey, uh, is itokay if I just go tomorrow when
my wife goes with her people?
Yeah.
And any other company in theworld would just be like, yeah,
whatever nobody cares.

SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
Um it's also it was this was on a Saturday and a
Sunday.
Right.
So typically not work days inthe room.

SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
But when we would go, there would be food.

SPEAKER_04 (29:51):
Oh my gosh, that's what I was gonna say too.
Like I think I remember thecomplete and utter sensory
overload sensation of Like, likeand also thinking back on it
now, I like O to be a fly on thewall watching that happen at
Cabazon, you know, like justwatching all these like people
that look like they're dressedfrom the 70s and the 80s get out
of these buses.

(30:12):
Like, were these people in isthis they just come through our
teleportal?
Are we being pumps?

SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Why is there a guy with a fur vest walking around?

SPEAKER_04 (30:24):
Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
It was pretty, it was pretty awesome.
We would go and similarly, you'dbe like, oh, there'd be all
these restaurants and littlefood stands and all that, and
you'd buy something and you'd belike, oops, there's 10 bucks,
that's gone.

SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And then you're like, Wow, I gotta really figure
out what I do with my moneyhere.
I don't have a lot of money tobe buying.

SPEAKER_04 (30:45):
You have three hours to go shopping.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
That was the other part.
I totally forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
It was like, we're gonna drop you off at 10, and
you need to be ready to go atone o'clock.

SPEAKER_04 (30:56):
Yeah, which to be fair at the time seemed like,
wow, that's a lot of time,especially when you have a
hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Yeah.
I'm gonna milk this hundred.
It's gonna, I just gotta make itlast for three whole hours.

SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
Um, yeah, but as far as um in the later years, it got
to the point, and I even I thinkI mentioned this in my book.
Um, they have in the Sea Org onthe original ships that L.
Ron Hubbard ran in the ocean, inthe sea, um, they would have

(31:32):
this thing called a beer andcheese party.

SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
And there were probably three or four of those
over the years, the 15 yearsthat we were there, where we
actually got to drink beer, andwe there was actually cheese,
and it was like a real thing.

SPEAKER_04 (31:48):
But I never drank beer, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
But I'm just saying, if you're gonna have a beer and
cheese party, there's at leasttwo things you need.
Yeah.
The last year that we were therein 2004, because we left in
January of 2005, they had a beerand cheese party, and it was
sun-kissed soda and Ritzcrackers and no cheese.

(32:14):
And it was like, and I was justI just remember sitting there
and it was just a table.

SPEAKER_04 (32:19):
So it was a soda and cracker party, basically.

SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
No, it was just soda and crackers because there was
no party, it was just a tablewith some cheese, with some uh
Ritz crackers and some sodas onit.
And I was like, anybody here.

SPEAKER_04 (32:33):
At that point, it was just a token gesture because
Hubbard had talked about havingbear and cheese parties on the
ship for the sea organization.
So that's the only reason eventhere was even an attempt at a
minimal gesture.
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
Anyway, so yeah, they weren't really big on um
they weren't really big onparties at all there.
No, there was not a lot ofparties over the 15 years.

SPEAKER_04 (32:58):
Like that's right.

SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
In your in the the course of a year, you might go
to two or three parties.
It just regular.
We go to a Halloween party.

SPEAKER_04 (33:06):
Oh, you mean as a person in the real world?

SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
A Christmas party, a Thanksgiving party, a birthday
party, birthday party.
You might go to a handful ofJuly 4th party.

SPEAKER_00 (33:15):
Well, yeah.
Now we I mean we pretty much useanything as an excuse to Friday
night party.
Making up for lost time.

SPEAKER_04 (33:23):
When it comes to August and it's our anniversary
month, I always tell Mark, I'mlike, Well, honey, we didn't get
to celebrate our anniversary forthe first 13 years.
So sorry, August is ouranniversary month.

SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
Yes, we do uh we do live it up these days.

SPEAKER_04 (33:38):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
But um, but yeah, in the C organization, you might,
if you're do if yourorganization is doing really
well and there's a Scientologyholiday, which is March 13th,
I'll run the anniversary of ElRon Hubbard's birthday, or May
9th, the anniversary of thepublication of Dianetics, or you
know, the IAS event, theInternational Association of

(34:00):
Scientologists, those you'reallowed to uh be at the party.
Yes.
But most of the time, if you'rea C org member, you're working
the party.
So if you work at Golden AirProductions, you're putting on
the event.
If you work in an organization,you're selling things, you're
selling courses or materials atthat party.

(34:21):
So even then, it's a party, butit's a working party.
You're you're the you're thestaff of the party, you're
putting on the party, you're notthere to partake in the party.

SPEAKER_04 (34:31):
Yes, for sure.
And also before we move alongfrom this, fundamentally, I
would say that Hubbard wasanti-other religions.
He wrote many things that werederogatory about Jesus Christ,
Christianity, religion.
100%.
100%.
So from that perspective, uh, dothey celebrate Christmas, maybe

(34:52):
to put on a show to the peoplearound them?

SPEAKER_02 (34:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:55):
But do they respect other people's beliefs or any of
that?
Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
It's funny that you say that because while they
tolerate Christmas and theytolerate Thanksgiving, that's
it.

SPEAKER_04 (35:09):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
You're not, you're not light, you're not spinning a
dreidel or uh or or having anykind of Hanukkah stuff at the
international headquarters or aScientology organization.
That is silliness that they'renot gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 (35:23):
Yeah, like so much so.
And granted, my upbringing wasway more insulated than some
other people's.
But like the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 (35:33):
Insulated.

SPEAKER_04 (35:34):
Insulated.
Uh the whole concept of Hanukkahand all of that was completely
foreign to me when I when we gotout.
And I had to learn uh what thatall was.

SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Oh, yeah, me too.
Yeah.
We were very ignorant of thingsoutside of the stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (35:53):
Embarrassingly so.
Yeah.
Yes, like cringy.

SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
It's taken years for us to like be like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (36:00):
Get on our Google five.

SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
Okay.
I don't know what that's allabout.
And then you're gonna be like,oh, there's 12 million people do
this.

SPEAKER_04 (36:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, didn't know that.
T I L.

unknown (36:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (36:14):
Um, all right.
Is there more?
I think so.

SPEAKER_04 (36:17):
Yeah, there's a couple more.
So again, this is just one um,this is one photo of us that
this was taken in the dininghall, Massacre Canyon Inn.
Um, and it was on it was at thethe 30-minute Christmas dinner
that we had.
I I want to say this was 97 or98-ish.

(36:38):
Um, but yeah, like it was amiracle that we were even in the
same room at the same time totake a picture for that
Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
Well, during this time period, you had been in
Florida for many years.

SPEAKER_04 (36:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
And I had been in Denmark, Jean Bonague,
Copenhagen.
Um, and um, and then even when Icame back from Denmark, I was
then in Los Angeles for many,many months, or on location when
we were shooting films.

SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
So I want to say from about ninety five to about
ninety-six or ninety-seven, wesaw each other a handful of
times.

SPEAKER_04 (37:22):
94 until 90.

SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Yeah, 90, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 (37:25):
94 until 90, yeah.
Mid-97.

SPEAKER_01 (37:28):
Yeah, it wasn't a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (37:29):
Nope.

SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
And and even if we excuse me, even if we did see
each other, it was just for afew minutes here or there.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (37:35):
It wasn't like we weren't staying in the same room
that night.

SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Yeah, we weren't.
It was like, hey, remember me?

SPEAKER_04 (37:42):
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
Remember this guy over here?

SPEAKER_04 (37:44):
Oh my gosh.
I really yeah, I there wasdefinitely architecture in place
that was designed from theget-go to absolutely destroy our
relationship.

SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
Yeah, so this thing says, does Scientology have
important holidays?
So, like I said, the importantholidays in Scientology are
Elron Hubbard's birthday, March13th.

SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
Yeah, well, starting at the they do celebrate New
Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_01 (38:09):
Sure, but that's at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_04 (38:11):
Okay, yeah, depending on your perspective.
I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Well, we're celebrating it on December 31st.

SPEAKER_04 (38:17):
So that would make no, I associate it with January
1st.
It's okay.
Woo-suck.
Get easy.

SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
Woo-suck.

SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
All right then, move along, kind sir.

SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
March 13th.
I'll run Hubbard's uhanniversary of uh Hubbard's
birthday, May 9th, which is theanniversary of the publication
of Dianetics.

SPEAKER_04 (38:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
Then you have in June, they have uh no, did I say
March 13th?
Yeah, March 13th, May 9th, June6th, with which is the maiden
and the anniversary of themaiden voyage of the flagship uh
free wins.
Free winds, the their uh littletugboat cruise ship that they

(38:58):
have.
And then you have Sea Org Day,which is in August.

SPEAKER_04 (39:01):
Right, which that is celebrated only by members of
the Sea Organization, of course.

SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
And then you have Auditors Day, which is in
September, and then you have theInternational Association Oh no,
there's yeah, Auditors Day inSeptember, then you have the
International Association ofScientologist Anniversary, which
is in also Oh, it's in October.
October.
Yep.
And then New Year's.

SPEAKER_04 (39:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
December and December.

SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
And they they all the New Year's event is always
on a like a Friday, Saturday, orSunday, so that they can justify
doing it.

SPEAKER_04 (39:38):
Yeah, originally it used to be on the 31st.

SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
Always on the 31st.

SPEAKER_04 (39:43):
But then in the last few years that we were there,
somebody, you know, DavidMiscavige was like, well, if we
do it on the 27th, then we'llhave time to get it out to all
the organizations.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:57):
So those are the holidays that they celebrate.
Those are the main ones.
There might be other sillythings.

SPEAKER_04 (40:03):
On a scale of one to ten, those are a ten, and
Christmas and Thanksgiving.
Uh Christmas is probably a two,and Thanksgiving is a one on on
an important scale.
If they're even on the thing.

SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
They might both be just point fives.

SPEAKER_04 (40:19):
True, true.
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
And um and you know what?
It's okay to have a party onthose days.
If you're the Scientologyorganization, because you want
to get people to come to that tospend money and buy courses and
that sort of thing.
And that's the only reason, andand and uh as well, that's the

(40:42):
only reason they have thoseevents.

SPEAKER_04 (40:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
Those events are sales events.

SPEAKER_04 (40:47):
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
They um almost always are releasing a new
course or some new auditingcounseling that they retooled
that's been around for 25, 30years.

SPEAKER_03 (40:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
Or there's a new set of lectures, L.
Ron Hubbard lectures, or there'ssomething that they want you to
buy at that point.

SPEAKER_04 (41:07):
You know what?
You make a really good pointbecause ref let's reflect for a
moment.
For example, on L.
Ron Hubbard's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (41:15):
Okay.
Was this celebrating the man?
Was it celebrating his birthday?
Was it singing him happybirthday?
Uh, no, none of that.
It was all about how muchexpansion have Scientology
organizations attained.

SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
Totally.

SPEAKER_04 (41:31):
That's all it's about.

SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:34):
Okay.
Yahoo.
What else we got?

SPEAKER_04 (41:38):
All right.
How are holidays impacted bydisconnection?
So, this is a photo, probablyactually the last photo that we
have of you with your sisterStephanie.

SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
That's you as well.
It's me and you and Stephanie.

SPEAKER_04 (41:51):
Oh, I know.
Everybody knows what you and Ilook like.

SPEAKER_01 (41:53):
I don't know.
Those pictures are pretty old.

SPEAKER_04 (41:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
Pretty look how skinny I am in there.

SPEAKER_04 (41:59):
Same.
And I have my Nextel phone radioon my belt.
Like a dumbo.

SPEAKER_02 (42:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (42:07):
Uh, because I had to answer the phone right away if
anybody called.
Uh yeah.
Um, holidays, how are holidaysimpacted by disconnection?
Yeah, as we've been saying, tome anyway, this is it's it's
bittersweet.
It's the hardest time of theyear from the the perspective
that it's impossible not tothink about our family members

(42:29):
who are trapped inside that cultand reflect on the time that
they've missed with us, and youknow, our our our parents have
never met our kids and all that.
That's hard.
This the sweet part of it isthat our kids love this time of
the year, and we've made suchspecial memories despite that.
So, you know, that's where I'mgrateful that we got out

(42:51):
together and we've been able tobuild that.
But I also my heart goes out toanyone that doesn't have, you
know, that that this time ofyear just spotlights that.

SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Yeah, and I don't think since we've left, we
haven't had a Thanksgiving.
We we weren't with at least 20or 30 family members.

SPEAKER_03 (43:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
During like we actually had a Thanksgiving
dinner and we hung out, and wemaybe I played football with
some of the cousins' kids.

SPEAKER_04 (43:20):
And you just reminded me of the time that we
first came to Colorado to meetall your family.
And of course, we'd been married13 years, and I had never met
any of them.

SPEAKER_02 (43:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (43:31):
And um, it was so moving to hear, like, oh, um,
we're so grateful to have you.
We've had you on our prayerlist.
I mean, that really hit me.
Yeah.
That really, really, I mean, Iknow it hit both of us, but then
also your family were just sosweet.
Like, we love you, it's so niceto meet you.
Please just don't wait 13 yearsto come visit again.

(43:53):
Yeah.
I'm like, oh, don't worry,that's not a problem.

SPEAKER_01 (43:56):
And we have since 2005, we have had a Thanksgiving
every single year.

SPEAKER_04 (44:03):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (44:04):
And we and for a lot of for many years, we did it at
one of my family's, one of mycousins' houses here in
Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 (44:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
And then a few years ago, we then started hosting it.
And then they come to our housenow.
And I think this is gonna belike the smallest Thanksgiving
we've had this year.
Yeah.
And it's gonna be only like 20,25 people.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
That's gonna be just a small and by the way, folks,
we do not live in a giantmansion of a house.
So when we had, I think the mostwe had was like 50 to 60 people,
and literally we had to m clearout the entire first floor of
our house and just set up umfolding tables.
Folding tables and chairs, butit didn't matter, you know.
We we decorated and everyoneloved it.

(44:50):
It's always been amazing, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (44:52):
Yeah, I think most of my family did think we were a
little crazy for having thatmany people show up.

SPEAKER_04 (44:56):
Yeah.
Oh, and you know, the otherthing, yeah, for sure.
But the other thing that youreminded me of doing.

SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
Yeah.
So but Thanksgiving people forThanksgiving.
We had two ovens going.

SPEAKER_04 (45:08):
We had it was like Is there anybody you didn't
invite?

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:12):
Um, we invited the entire town.
No, but also it reminded me too.
Remember in the first few yearsthat we were celebrating
Thanksgiving with your family,to us it was so special, so
cherished, so uh just so muchjoy.

SPEAKER_01 (45:28):
Oh, we would look forward to it for months.

SPEAKER_04 (45:30):
Yeah, and not only that, but we blew away your
whole family when for the firstlike three or four years, we
would give everyone cameras andget everyone to take photos, and
then we would make a whole photoalbum We made a book of the
entire few days of Thanksgivingmaking with captions and and
they were like I would givecameras to the kids and say,

(45:54):
take as many pictures as youcan.

SPEAKER_01 (45:57):
And so they weren't contrived at all because the
kids were just taking pic theywould literally take thousands
of pictures, yeah, and then we'dpick the best ones, and there
would be funny stories attachedto some of the pictures, and um
anyway, so yeah, I I do have tosay this is the because there is
one really hilarious one, whichis of course, I knew I knew you

(46:17):
were gonna go there.
Which is my cousin, my um one ofmy nieces took a picture.

SPEAKER_04 (46:24):
And she was about ten at the time, by the way,
just for context.

SPEAKER_01 (46:26):
She was young.

SPEAKER_04 (46:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
She took a picture that they had in of a picture
that they had in their basement.
And it was of this just majesticeagle soaring through the air.

SPEAKER_04 (46:38):
Over the mountains.

SPEAKER_01 (46:40):
Well, whatever.
It was in the sky.
But she took a picture of itwith she took a picture of a
picture.

SPEAKER_04 (46:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
And then she potted off as she was just outside in
the backyard and she saw aneagle and she took this picture.

SPEAKER_04 (46:52):
I don't remember that part.

SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
Oh, I do because I was I was just like, are you
kidding me?
Like, you took this picture, andshe's like, Yeah.
And I was like, Where was it?
She was, it was just in the sky.
And I was like, that's amazing.
Anyway, and then I thinksomebody knew that there was a
picture of an eagle in thebasement of their house.

SPEAKER_04 (47:14):
Because we made that photo, the front cover.

SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
Yes, we made it the cover of the book to celebrate
this whole thing.
But somebody brought up, theysaid, Yeah, I'm pretty sure she
took that down to the basement.
I was like, why?
And he goes, Because I have apicture of that eagle in my
basement.
Uh anyway, we had tons of fun.
We've had tons of uh great, andnow those nieces and nephews,

(47:38):
they all have kids that arealmost the age she was.
Yes, you know, they're in thethey've got toddlers and yeah.
Anyway, lots of fun stuff.
Okay.
Is this um what's going on here?
Oh, 2002.
Oh, I didn't see that.
She had a little map there.

SPEAKER_04 (47:54):
Yeah, so disconnection.
You want me to just read thisreal quick for anyone that
doesn't know the sev severanceof all ties between a
Scientologist and a friend,colleague, or family member who
is deemed to be antagonistictowards Scientology.
Or in our case, we weren't evenantagonistic to Scientology.
We were just declaredsuppressive people because we
escaped.

SPEAKER_01 (48:15):
Well, escaping.
Escaping is antagonistic.
You're attacking them by leavingthem with less resources than
they had the day before youwere.

SPEAKER_04 (48:23):
That's a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_04 (48:25):
I mean, come on, we didn't we didn't attack them.
They attacked us.
They ran you off the road forcrying out of the city.

SPEAKER_01 (48:30):
I understand, but I'm just saying, in the I'm not
forwarding their bullshit in themindset of a Scientologist, you
are betraying them andabandoning them.

SPEAKER_04 (48:38):
In their mindset, yeah, exactly.
Okay.
But yeah, uh, and to me, it isworse worse than shunning, and
it's worse in so many thingsbecause um I remember the the
times that we were living in LosAngeles and our son was born.
So my mom's first grandchild, Iremember we would go to my
sister's softball games.

SPEAKER_01 (48:59):
This is when we were out.

SPEAKER_04 (49:01):
We were out after we had escaped.
But we would go to my sister'ssoftball games because she was a
college student just to watch,because we're like, hey, what
harm does it do to go and watcha softball game?

SPEAKER_01 (49:13):
And also it was like, you can't stop us from
going to a softball game.

SPEAKER_04 (49:17):
Right.
But then, but remember how I Ijust have very distinct memories
of sitting there just beingcompletely gobsmacked that they
were sitting three rows backfrom us, 100% ignoring us.
Like we didn't even exist.

SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
You're saying your family, yes.
Yes, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (49:38):
My mom, my stepdad, you know, my brother, my sister,
and my sisters playing softball,and they're and I I'm there with
their grandson, and it's like weliterally don't even exist.
We may as well have beensuperhumans with invisible
cloaks.

SPEAKER_01 (49:55):
Yeah, I did, I did push it a little there because I
was like screaming, Go curst it.
You know, I'm I can I can screamreally loud and uh yell really
loud, and I'm you know yellingat her name and go cursten,
yeah.
And then everyone's looking atme and they're like, and but her
family, just straightforward,they wouldn't even turn, they

(50:16):
wouldn't even give us a littleside eye, not a thing.
No, and I think they weremortified that we were there
because and so they should havebeen.
And because they were like, Whyare you here?

SPEAKER_04 (50:28):
We're like, Yeah, because we're we're because we
love her and she's my sister,and we came to cheer her on.

SPEAKER_01 (50:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:34):
Like, anyway, it it gets my brain.
Disconnection.

SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
Yeah.
So the the other thing I didwant to mention is if you have a
family member, there are a lotof people that watch this
channel that have family membersthat are in Scientology, or
maybe they once were inScientology and then they left,
but they still have family thatare in Scientology.
If you write them a letter oryou try to call them or anything

(50:58):
like that, writing a letter isprobably the most effective
thing you can do because theydon't really accept a lot of
phone calls, depending on wherethey work.
If you're in Columbus, Ohio, youmight be able to take a call.
But if you're at a Sea Org base,that's not that's not likely
going to happen.

SPEAKER_04 (51:14):
But yeah, I heard a story recently of somebody's
somebody whose son was callingto them, they worked at the
headquarters, and the son calledevery day for years and never
once got a call back.

SPEAKER_01 (51:27):
Yeah.
That's that's a that is a commonoccurrence.

SPEAKER_04 (51:31):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
But if you write them a letter and you don't say
anything about Scientology, youjust say, you know, Aunt May's
doing good, and your sister justgot a new job at the college,
and just give them good news andjust let them know that you're
there.
If they ever, if if the thingyou can and you can say this,
you can say, if you ever whenyou get your next vacation, um,

(51:57):
you could come, you're welcometo come and stay with us, or if
you're ever in the area, you'rewelcome to stay with us.

SPEAKER_04 (52:04):
If you ever need anything, we're here for you.

SPEAKER_01 (52:06):
Yeah, if there's anything you ever need, we're
always here for you, and we'revery um supportive of whatever
you want to do.
Yeah, then they it might givethem a little bit of an inkling
that if they did decide toleave, they could come because
that I want to say that is thebiggest hurdle in a Sea Org

(52:27):
member's eyes, is when theydon't want to be there anymore,
then they kind of reflect on thefact that they've never been,
they haven't had any time orspent any time with your family
anymore.
Right.
And in Scientology, they'reconstantly trying to like erase
that part.
You don't need any of that.

SPEAKER_04 (52:46):
There's no and isolate you further and further
and further from your family.

SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
That's right.
So even though you may bewelcome welcoming them with open
arms if they decided to leave,they don't think that's the
case.
That's right.
Even when when we went to goleave, and I called my dad and I
said, Hey, I left, and the copsjust helped me and all this, and
he's like, Well, what are yougonna do?
I said, I want to come there ifif if I can and maybe stay with

(53:11):
you.
And he was like, Of course.
I've been waiting for 15 yearsfor this day.
And to, but to me, I was I wassurprised.

SPEAKER_04 (53:20):
Yeah, no, I know.
I can I can remember feelingjealous, not that I ever
acknowledged or let thosethoughts even be verbalized in
my head, but having a feeling ofjealousy when I would hear of
somebody who escaped to a familymember who was never in
Scientology, because I was like,Well, I don't have that.
I knew if I ever escaped, theonly person that I even knew

(53:43):
where they lived or or that waseven in the US that I could
think of was my mother, and Iknew she would just turn me
right back over to them.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:51):
So that's another kind of aspect of this.
If you can just let them knowthat you're there, and it's
completely acceptable within theC org member if some if your
family does send you just a aletter during the holidays or on
your paper.

SPEAKER_04 (54:08):
Hi, how are you doing?
Thinking about you, love you,miss you.
Yeah.
We'd love for you to come visitsometime, and I'd love to hear
about how you're doing and whatyou've been up to.
And it's only been about 15years, so it's about time,
Sally, that you come visit yourold ma.

SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
But but what I'm saying is that that wouldn't
necessarily raise a red flagwith internal C organization
people, because they're like, ohyeah, it's his mom's mom's just
writing him to let him know howeverybody's doing and all that
good stuff.
But I would say that that iskey, even if they're not writing
you back.
That's the other thing.

SPEAKER_04 (54:42):
Exactly.
Don't take it personally.

SPEAKER_01 (54:43):
My dad wrote me, my dad wrote me on my birthday,
Christmas, you know.
He would write a lot, he wouldwrite to you as well.
Just not he would just write toyou.
But the amount of times Ianswered him was very rare.
Or I would just write, you know,like thanks, and then I'd never

(55:03):
mail it.
Anyway, so yeah, it's it's a bitmuch.
Don't you have to kind of youhave it just it you have to
understand what's happening ontheir end.

SPEAKER_04 (55:15):
That's right.
Yeah.
So if you if you if you haven'twalked in those shoes, so just
just to keep the important thingis to just keep that line open,
yeah.
Um, because that's huge forsomebody in that level of
isolation, that is a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 (55:31):
Yeah, but if you say, Hey, what's up with you
never being able to leave thatplace and what's going on, uh
not only are they not going tobe writing you back, they're not
gonna pass your letters on tothat person anymore.
You're gonna immediately get belike, okay, we got somebody
who's antagonistic towardsScientology.

SPEAKER_04 (55:53):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (55:54):
And that's the end.
Those letters, those letterswill never get to that person.

SPEAKER_04 (55:59):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Ever.
Forever, for the rest of time.
They're not they're not handingyour letters over.
Because they don't want to upsetthe C org member.

SPEAKER_04 (56:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:08):
So you got to play nice if you're on the outside.

SPEAKER_04 (56:12):
Um and also to just before while I think of it,
yeah, for anyone watching who isimpacted by disconnection at
this time of the year, pleaseconsider reaching out to the
Aftermath Foundation.
The support group program thatwe are now um have now been
running since July has beenflourishing.
It's doing amazing.
We just started a second group.

(56:33):
So for anyone hurting at thistime of year and who um is
impacted by this practice,please do reach out.
You are not alone.

SPEAKER_01 (56:42):
Yeah.
Okay, what do we got next?

SPEAKER_04 (56:45):
How do holidays compare now that we're out?
Yeah, we we talked about this.

SPEAKER_02 (56:49):
So we talked about Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_04 (56:51):
Yeah.
So again, these two photos onthe right and the left, you can
see how staged it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
It's like I love, I always love this one of you with
the gold stage.

SPEAKER_04 (57:06):
Oh my god, this is my worst photo of the of ever.
Because I had had maybe twohours of sleep for like the the
week prior.
I could barely keep my eyesopen.
Um, I had lost a lot of weightbecause I had no dining
privileges at this time.

SPEAKER_00 (57:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (57:26):
I was surviving off of tiger milk protein bars
because I wasn't even allowed toI think they're called tiger's
milk.
Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (57:35):
Whatever.

SPEAKER_04 (57:36):
They don't even exist anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (57:38):
They don't?

SPEAKER_04 (57:38):
No.
I don't think so.
I know, me too.
Anyhow, the point being thatthis photo to me is like it
looked so bad.

SPEAKER_00 (57:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (57:48):
And that other one is a close second, pretty bad.
Because I we had done umrenovations down by the G units,
which is where Tom Cruise hadstayed, and we had to cut down
all these massive bushes, and Ihad a massive I got all this
stuff in my eye and a massivescratch, so my eye swelled up so
much so that Greg Wilhel askedme if you'd punched me, and I

(58:10):
was just so insulted.
I was like, Yeah.
You think I'm because my eye wasclosed shut, the one eye.

SPEAKER_02 (58:16):
Yeah, anyhow.
It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 (58:18):
Yeah.
So and then the one in themiddle is me with my two half
sisters.
I think that's the last pictureI have with them.

SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (58:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:26):
Sad.

SPEAKER_04 (58:27):
It is sad.

SPEAKER_01 (58:28):
But we do, we not only do we have a uh a banger of
a Thanksgiving.
Yes, but we kind of go all outfor Christmas with these kids
too.
These kids are.
I I would I would argue that ourkids are they are on the edge of
spoiled with the amount that wetry to course correct what we we

(58:49):
try to flop to the completeopposite of what we yeah, that's
so so much so that even theirfriends are like, wow, your
family eats dinner a lottogether.

SPEAKER_00 (58:58):
Yeah, that's right.
Your family eats dinner a lottogether.

SPEAKER_04 (59:02):
You guys do a lot of things together.
Yeah, we're like, whatever.
We we know we know we treasureevery every single minute with
our kids, especially because youtravel for work, so when you're
here, we do a lot.
Somebody asked in that goldshirt picture if that's my hair.
Yes, my hair was down past mybutt.

SPEAKER_01 (59:21):
I used to cut her hair.
You know, I was talking tosomebody else the other day, and
because David Miscavige did notwant to look have bad makeup on
stage, he brought in a makeupartist and uh and uh stylist
that did, I want to say Clintonand uh and George Bush.

(59:46):
Uh he did their makeup.

SPEAKER_04 (59:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (59:51):
And so he taught the makeup crew what the things to
do and all that.
But because at that time I wasover the makeup area.
I was also participating inthese things.
So I did actually learn how tocut hair and do very, very
professional makeup.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
I also went to a bunch of makeup classes and I
learned about seasons and allthese other different things.
I know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:15):
When you started being like, hey, you know, you
should change this and this andthis, I was like, who are you?
It's like, well, I've been doingmakeup classes.
I was like, oh, wow.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:25):
You're really more of an autumn.
You shouldn't wear these springcolors as much.
Like, what?

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:31):
Yeah, but but yeah, for for I think three or four
years, you were cutting my hair.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:36):
Just uh anytime I would see you when we were both
at home together during our CSPtime, our two hours to clean our
apartment, clean ship, clean ourroom.
I would stand in the bathtub andyou would just cut it and be
like, okay, good to go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
Yeah.
No split-ins here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:54):
Whoa, wah, wah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:56):
Okay.
Um, photo contest.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:58):
Yeah.
So let's answer some questions.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:00):
Well, no, I wanted to tell everybody about the
photo contest.
You gotta send us some pictures,and we're gonna pick three

winners (01:01:06):
a fan favorite, Claire favorite, and a Mark favorite.
Yep.
And you can you can win a MikeRinder or a Lib Leah bobblehead.
And if you want to submit thosephotos, you can go to the Blown
for Good website and go to thecontact us page.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:20):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:20):
And it will allow you to send a photo to us.
And you can also just go on Xand tag me or share the photo or
DM me or whatever you want on X,and we can get it that way.
And then we're gonna pick justin the next week or so, we're
gonna go through all theNovember entries and we're gonna
award some three people aregetting bobbleheads.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:43):
Yep, exactly.
We may end up doing that as acommunity post.
We'll see.
We'll keep you posted.
But either way, if you hitsubscribe, hit that bell
notification, you should be goodto go on finding out.
And by the way, someone said youcan get tiger's milk bars on
Amazon still.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:58):
I knew it.
You were such a propagandist.
Oh my propagandist?

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:03):
Wow, you knew harsh words.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:05):
Tiger's milk, they don't make them anymore.
You crushed my dreams for asecond there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:11):
All right.
L E Y 67.

Question (01:02:13):
if everyone in the room is OT4, can they talk about
it?
No, definitely not.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:20):
You're not allowed to even discuss any of the
confidential operating Phaetonlevels.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:28):
And in fact, by the way, before you go on though,
this is true of all levels.
You're not allowed to discussyour case with anybody, no
matter what level they are, nomatter what level you are, you
can only discuss your case,meaning your progress on the
Scientology counseling side ofthe bridge to total freedom,

(01:02:48):
with an auditor in session,holding the cans of the e-meter.
That is it.
Anything else is actually asuppressive act.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:57):
That's right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:58):
You're it's called coffee shop auditing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:01):
Well, remember?
They don't want people, theydon't want people comparing
notes.
Comparing notes, because oneperson might say, Yeah, I
finished uh I finished OT5yesterday, and they'd be like,
Well, how long have you been onit?
I'd be like, two weeks.
Yeah.
And then they'd be like, Oh, ittook me four years to do that,
and I had to pay like a hundredand eighty thousand dollars at

(01:03:24):
the flag land base inClearwater, Florida.
And so they don't want anybodycomparing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:30):
No, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:31):
So that's forbidden.
They don't want it them to geteven more disgruntled than they
already are by being like, whatare you talking about?
But like even it's funny becauseif you're if you've basically if
you've done anything past OTlevel three, you know about the
aliens.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:51):
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:52):
There is a guy, an actor, his name is Jim Meskiman.
And I want to say when we werethere, he was on like his upper
OT levels.
And he was he was he had been uhuh he found out about the
aliens.
And he did an interview andsomebody asked him about the

(01:04:12):
aliens, and he said, I thinkit's horrible that people I
mean, people really think Ibelieve in flying saucers.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
And it's like even when they aredirectly asked about the aliens,
they will deny they believe inthe aliens.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:29):
I mean, it's the perfect example of literally in
real life how Scientologistswill lie.
Yeah, but this is the best partbecause it's an acceptable
truth.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:38):
The ones that don't know about the aliens yet, they
obviously will deny it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:43):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:44):
Because they don't know about them yet.
They haven't paid that muchmoney.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:47):
The only Scientologist that will ever
admit to the existence of Xenuis an ex-scientologist.
Is not a Scientologist.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:56):
Or someone who's about to be an ex-scientologist
because they got in trouble fortalking about the aliens.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:01):
Right, exactly.
That's one key differentiationbetween because a lot of people
say, well, you get you know,there's a lot of religions or
cults or whatever groups, uhorganized uh philosophical
groups.
Yeah, different systems ofbelief that have crazy origin

(01:05:22):
stories.
Correct.
But they they stick to them.
They they embrace them andthey're like, yeah, like the
Mormons are like, yeah, we gotaliens.
Sure, there's a spaceship upthere we're getting to, you
know, whatever it is, or Adamand Eve, or you know, Christmas.
These things are they embracethem.

(01:05:45):
Scientologists deny them andhide them because they know if
they come out with that as thepitch, you're gonna be like,
what the hell?
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:55):
You know, I'm not signing up for any Area 51
religion.
Right.
Come on.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:59):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:01):
Okay, here we go.
What's this one say?

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:04):
All right, Lex 4E.
When are the Mark and Clairebobbleheads coming?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:08):
Well, I I'm gonna tell you, it ain't until the old
ones are sold.
Somebody made that one for us.
That's just a one-off one.
Um but um which which I actuallykind of dig.
I think it's fun.
Um but uh you kind of look likeShania Twain, I think, uh I

(01:06:30):
don't know about that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:31):
Tell us what you think, folks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:32):
Yes.
Man, what is it?
What is the song?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:37):
Man, you I feel like a woman or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:40):
Yeah.
Man, I feel like a woman.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:44):
Maybe, I don't know.
Um, but either way, um we stillgot a we don't have a lot of
Mike Render bobbleheads left.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:51):
No, but we um and we have we don't have a huge amount
of Leah bobbleheads, but we havea bunch.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:57):
Yeah, but we're not gonna sell, we're not making any
more bobbleheads unless we sellout of every single Davy doll
and bobblehead that we have,just because I need the space in
my shop.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:08):
Yes, we've been uh very slammed on real estate of
late.
All right, Northern True.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:14):
Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:14):
Okay question Did you guys miss each other when
you were apart, or did it noteven occur to you to indulge
those feelings?
Oh no.
We did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:21):
We wrote we wrote, we used to get those, you know,
those little cards with thelittle they're black and white,
but they have one little elementof them that are like pink or
yeah, and it's a little boy anda little girl.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:33):
Yeah, like we always used to send those back and
forth with, and you would uh wewould always write I love you
always and forever.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:43):
It was a song Donna Lewis.
Donna Lewis.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:46):
I love you always forever.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:49):
Anyway, that was our song for a while.
It was okay, yeah.
We we we messed up.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:56):
Does Mark still cut the hair of the entire Headley
family?
I suspect he would if they lethim.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:02):
No, that was only during COVID.
During COVID, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:05):
And no, he doesn't cut my hair anymore.
He's far too busy, and I prefera little more uh, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:12):
Well, my my styles are from the 90s when I was
taught.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:17):
Yeah, he wasn't great at layers and you know,
some of the more complex aspectsof women's hair.
No offense, honey.
You didn't cut my hair for fouryears.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:27):
Yeah, and uh and to be fair, I've only cut one
woman's hair in my life.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:32):
Yeah, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:34):
So um yeah, no, I don't do it anymore.
My I'm and also the boys' hairs,that's uh that's a clippers with
you know, would you want anumber one or a number two?
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:45):
Yeah.
All right, Magda.
Now that you can now that youcan celebrate holidays however
you want, what's your favoritetradition you've embraced?
We have a lot of them to befair.
Um we always do the hugeThanksgiving spread, all the
trappings.
Mark and I, we love cookingtogether.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:06):
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:06):
Yeah, we make we're this year.
I'll give you the menu.
We're making Yorkshire pudding,okay, which we have a baller
Yorkshire pudding.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:17):
We have been we we usually do roast beef and
Yorkshire pudding for Easter.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:21):
Um, and again, that's another one that we uh
have typically startedcelebrating since getting out
and having a huge big spread.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:29):
Yeah, we don't normally do Yorkshire pudding at
Christmas, but the kids love it,and also a lot of our my family
now love it.
Yeah, because they've come toour Easter parties.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:40):
Well, that's true.
We do do a big Easter party too.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:43):
We do, and we do a huge July 4th.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:46):
That's true.
We do have massive.
That's like 60, 70 people forJuly 4th.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:50):
Thanksgiving is one of my favorite.
We um not Mark doesn't, but theboys and I run the turkey trot
5K in the morning, and then wecome and cook the rest of the
day, and it's a really fun likewe've been doing I've been doing
turkey trot.
Oh, I don't have my metals inhere anymore, but for like Yeah,
you do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:09):
There's one right there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:10):
It's the it's even a oh it's a no, it's a July 4th.
Yeah.
It's not a turkey.
There's a turkey under there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:16):
Anyway, either way, the point is.
Claire's got Claire has I'vebeen doing it since 2015, I want
to say.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:22):
But that's not the only thing.
Claire has literally 50.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:29):
She has 55 Ks and the Spartan range.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:34):
She has trail trail races, so many of these things.
Fight for air climb.
I did a bunch of those runningup the 52 flights of um stairs,
the tallest skyscraper inDenver.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:47):
Yeah, she does a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:49):
So yay!

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:52):
Anyway, so yeah, we have tons of traditions.
We started cruising with theboys, they love that.
That has been a really memorabletime.
We basically, you know, we workso hard as small business
owners.
My perspective is that we onlyhave this small amount of time
with our children while they'restill children.

(01:11:14):
We never got any of that withour families.
So we literally treasure everyminute of every day that we get
with them.
And even if we're having a roughyear, we still figure out how to
make those memories for ourkids.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:29):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:29):
This is a good one for me.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:31):
Trevin on question: how does this SP suppressive
person thing work if you're theonly person in your surroundings
who knows anything aboutScientology?
Am I a potential trouble sourceto myself or am I a potential
trouble source to you guys?
We've actually joked about this.
We're like, well, wait a minute.
If Mark is declared asuppressive person and I'm

(01:11:52):
declared a suppressive person,and if I get sick, then who am I
PTS to?

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:58):
Yeah.
There, there, there, there are alot of loopholes in
Scientology's PTS and SPtechnology.
Yeah.
Because that's a good point.
Yes, if you don't have if yourparents have passed away, right,
and you have they have nobrothers and sisters, you have
no other people in your lifeexcept for in Scientology.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:18):
And that and that is where I I firmly believe that
the whole potential troublesource suppressive person is
more about controlling andkeeping the person in
Scientology than it has anythingto do with the person
themselves.
That's just what where I'vearrived at on it.
Because it is about control andleverage and also destroying

(01:12:42):
that fundamental foundation offamily connection, unconditional
love, all of that.
It is intended to destroy that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:50):
Yeah, and I think the your family members are the
ones that you might be PTS to isjust a good, like a regular
interval that where they cankind of scrub you down and get
rid of any ideas that you'regetting out of here and that
you're ever going anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:08):
So it's even convenient for them to be like,
no, you can't go to Thanksgivingbecause you got uh you had a
cold two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:17):
But you also reminded me of another spin on
that, which is that if you werelike, Well, I want to go see my
family for Christmas, well, why?
Who cares?
Well, my family, uh, I don'twant them to think that I don't
care about them.
Oh, well, a UPTS to them then.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:36):
There's no real good way.
That's why I'm saying it wasvery, very rare that people
would do it because even ifsomebody did it, it would be
like, geez, what's happening?
And sometimes, and this is wherethey would give they would they
would give it a little bit ofleniency.
If your if you were in the SeaOrg and your parents were mega

(01:13:57):
donors, oh, for sure, then yougot to go every year.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:00):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:00):
And it was crazy to me.
Yeah, the flashback girls weregoing to Thanksgivings all the
time.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:05):
And I was like, somehow their completed staff
works were m miraculouslyapproved.
No problem.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:11):
They had been in trouble for trying to escape.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:13):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:14):
They still got to go.
And it was just like, and a lotof times they would get sent
with another person, or theywould go together.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:22):
Because then they could watch each other.
But either way.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:25):
And and it's funny, sorry, you just triggered a
memory.
Um, because one time I wastalking to your cousin's wife,
and she was like, Yeah, we werelike, wow, you guys can just
never even come visit even forChristmas.
And I and it just hit me becauseyou know, having been in that
world my entire life, I neverhad the perspective from the

(01:14:47):
outside looking in.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:49):
And it just hit me like a ton of bricks.
Like, yeah, how, how, what,like, and and anyway, what were
we doing that was so importantthat we couldn't take one day
crazy?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:00):
Good point, Trevanon.
We like that.
Was a good question.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:03):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:03):
Okay, what do well what else we got here?

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:05):
All right, boomerang Beck.
Do Scientologists tell theirkids, maintain the magic, about
Santa?
Yes, my mom did.
Uh I mean, I believed in Santaeven in the cadet org.
I think I knew it was bogus, butI just held on to any glimmer of
any kind of speck of joy that Icould find anywhere.

(01:15:28):
That's uh, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:30):
I I didn't believe in Santa.
I don't think it passed likenine or ten because I couldn't
understand if SantaLogistically.
No, no, not logistically.
Santa's a baller.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:45):
So why ain't I getting baller gifts from Santa
like all my other friends are?

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:49):
So I'm like, Santa seems to be broke like my
parents when it comes toChristmas.
The worst Christmas ever was thefirst year we moved to to Los
Angeles.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:03):
This is in your book.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:05):
I got a brown bandana that was filled, was
tied like a like a hobo sack,filled with unsalted shelled
peanuts.
And I didn't wasn't like a bigfan of peanuts.
Brown is my least of colors thatI enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:21):
Yeah, I've never seen you wear brown.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:23):
And I don't wear bandanas on the regular either.
So I was sort of like, Santa,you really screwed up this year.
And that was it.
That's what I got.
And it and I found out later, itwas actually from my
grandmother.
She sent that because she knew Iwas probably not getting
anything else.
And I to be fair, I do want tosay that my parents got me a

(01:16:45):
sheet of these little plasticthings that you would put in the
oven.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:49):
You would color them and oh yeah, I remember those.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:52):
I think they were called shrinky dinks or
something.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:54):
Yeah, it was like it you you would color it and then
you'd bake it in the oven at ashrink, it'd become like a clear
glass ornament or something likethat.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:01):
Something like that.
But I think my mom got me like aa package of those from Pick and
Save, which I think is like uhbig lots, is the is the
equivalent of pick and save orfive below.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:12):
Not even five below.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:13):
Uh the dollar store, dollar tree.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:15):
Pick and save is the bottom.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:18):
Okay, all right, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:19):
Anyway, but uh yeah.
Yeah, fun, good times.
Okay, I think we need to do theum we need to do the giveaway.
Let's see what we're doing here.
Get down to this giveaway pagehere.
There it is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:30):
All right, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:32):
Um, let me get over there.
We uh we gave you guys lots oftime.
We're drawing.
Here we go.
We're doing it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:39):
We're doing oh, weren't you gonna play the
music?

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:41):
Uh here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:43):
Watch this.
I'll it's too late.
I got here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:46):
Elizabeth Barrett, 7591.
Congratulations.
There we go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:54):
I didn't uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:55):
That was the best.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:56):
Yeah, in terms of my timing, though.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:02):
You know what?
We're here, as we always say,discussing a lot of heavy crap.
Yeah, you gotta find some humorhere and there to just lighten
the mood in the room.
Just a tad.
Congratulations.
Anyway, congratulations.
Send me an email, Claire atBalonforgood.com with your
address, and you will be theproud recipient of a fake Navy

(01:18:22):
Davy doll.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:23):
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Need not oh, ho we go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:30):
Uh love and life, not to start a war, but pumpkin
or sweet potato pie.
Pumpkin.
Pumpkin.
Definitely unanimously.
Good job.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:37):
Yeah, come on.
Yeah.
My uh it's mainly because of thekids.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:40):
It is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:41):
The kids love a pumpkin pie.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:43):
They do.
And we've done we've done allvariations.
We've done homemade, we've donethe epic Costco, we've done the
local bakery.
I I do really like baking apumpkin pie, though.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:55):
Yeah.
Um, let me just see if there'sany other good ones we needed.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:58):
Uh I I'm trying to Oh, you got Gumby in there now,
too, huh?

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:03):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, I totally forgot.
I was cleaning up and I foundthis little gum Gumby dude.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:08):
And by the way, yes, that is the big friendly giant
that uh somebody commented aboutthat.
You said it was a troll.
It is the big friend friendlygiant.
Oh BFG.
Catherine Olson, I love how Markadded Gumby to the pile.
There you go.
Yeah, I just noticed the samething, Catherine.
I was like, oh, wait a minute,what's the green dude doing
there?

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:26):
What?

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:28):
Claire looks fabulous.
But Mark looks like he just wokeup from a nap.
Right now?
No, this was at the start.
I saw this comment at the start.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:39):
Well, golly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:40):
It's the weekend, folks.
We we try to take it easy,especially because Mark's coming
up on a very busy time soon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:46):
Yeah, I was watching a game.
I was watching the Chiefs andthe uh Well, I know, but they
started catching up.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:53):
I know.
I don't even know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:54):
Probably sorry, Kansas City, but we want the
Chiefs to lose because we don'tneed them in the playoffs with
us at all.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:02):
Nope, nope, nope, nope.
Sorry, Grandpa Bernie, rest inpeace.
We're sorry.
We normally root for the Chiefson your behalf.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:08):
They won the Super Bowl for him.
He's good to go.
Okay.
Um is there anything else weget?

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:15):
If we missed a whole ton of questions, then I'll do
them on a QA when you're gone.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:20):
Oh, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:21):
Yep.
Anyway.
That's a perfect idea, actually.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:24):
That's a good video to do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:26):
Okay.
Well, I think we had a fun time.
We did.
We had a great time.
Yes.
We try to make these a littlebit more conversational and just
a little bit more informativebecause so you guys can feel or
find out what we were feeling orwhat was happening, or like some
of the things that we get a lotof questions from people who
have relatives that are inScientology or in the C

(01:20:48):
organization.
And so we try to sort of fillthat vacuum of what could be
going on with that person attheir local facility.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:57):
Yep.
And you reminded me, in case youmissed it, I did put up a
community post asking for yourquestions about Mark's book.
And we've gotten so many greatum comments there so far.
But if there's anything that youthat, you know, questions about
characters or this or that,whatever, you can look, go, go
to the community post and you'llsee some of the examples there.

(01:21:20):
Great, great ideas.
So probably end of the year,we'll do a wrap-up and we'll
cover those questions.
That's my suggestion.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:27):
Okay, that's a good idea.
I like that.
We could do, we could even dotwo videos.
We could do one end of the year.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:33):
Well, we're also gonna do a foundation fundraiser
year-end wrap-up where we'regonna cover all the foundations.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:39):
That's where we're gonna have our special guests.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:41):
Yes, we're gonna have our special guests talk
about all the hugeaccomplishments over at the
Michael J.
Render Aftermath Foundation.
Um, we have had an incredibleyear.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:51):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:51):
Best ever.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:53):
Best ever on a lot of fronts.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:54):
A lot of fronts, so much activity.
Oh my goodness, makes it allworthwhile.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:59):
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:00):
We have been having so much success with getting
people out, getting them back ontheir feet, building an
incredible team of people tosupport the people we're
helping, and you can just feelit by the momentum ramping up of
literally like there hasn't beena week that hasn't gone by in

(01:22:20):
the last three months that wehaven't been actively helping a
new person out right then andthere.
Like that much momentum gained,which is really fulfilling.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:31):
Yeah, it is it's it it really is amazing to see it
kind of start to snowball.
And now we find out there's alot of people that in
Scientology that know about theaftermath and they're seeing the
billboards.
Yep.
That's another thing.
The billboards have had anamazing impact.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:48):
Yes.
So if you are getting out ofScientology in any way, shape,
or form, please reach out to theAftermath Foundation, whether
you were in the C organization,a civilian Scientologist,
whether you've, you know,whatever it is, please reach
out.
We could because we have so manyresources and programs to help
you succeed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:09):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yes, that's a good ending.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:12):
Yes, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:13):
Okay, guys, thanks a lot.
Thanks for joining us.
Uh, we will see you.
We're still gonna try to do avideo every Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:20):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:20):
Whether it's live or pre-recorded, we are gonna try
to do a video every Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:25):
For the for for the for all of December.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:28):
Yes, correct.
But just know that it will be alittle bit before we're back
here again.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:33):
Yeah.
Well, you could be down here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:35):
Well, I know, but you know, I don't like it when
people make comments about how IThanks for watching.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:41):
If you'd like to help support the channel, feel
free to check out the merchstore link in the description.
We have Hail Xenu.
Xenu is my homeboy and BFGbranded mouse pads, shirts,
mugs, all sorts of other stuffin there that helps us to bring
you new content on a regularbasis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book, Blown for Good Behind

(01:24:02):
the Iron Curtain of Scientology,in hardback, Kindle, and Audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast, and you can get that on
Apple, Spotify, or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you

(01:24:23):
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

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Holiday Realities Inside Scientology - Scientology Secrets #22

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Holiday Realities Inside Scientology - Scientology Secrets #22