Hollywood Dreams and Celebrity Center Schemes - Scientology Stories #55 with Joy Villa - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
and welcome back to the channel blown for good
scientology exposed.
I'm your host for today, claireheadley, and I am joined by my
wonderful guest, joy Joy Vila.
Thanks for being here.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Joy, it's good to be here.
Claire, it's so nice to meetyou in person.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
So nice to meet you too.
Hopefully one day it will bereally in person, but in the
meantime most things are virtualthese days.
So it's just a pleasure to haveyou on and I'm very much
looking forward to ourconversation today.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
As I told you, I'm very much looking forward to our
conversation today.
As I told you, me too this isexciting.
It's going to be always good toget a chance to share the story
with someone who's lived it,even in such an incredible way,
and survived it.
So you know, I'm speaking tosomeone who understands, which
it's always nice to have thatunderstanding.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, I absolutely agree with you.
I think knowing there's acommunity of support is
incredibly important for anyone,but especially when you're
getting out of a high controlcourse of organization like
Scientology.
So again, thank you for beinghere.
I'm so glad you're out.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Me too.
Thank you, jesus, I am out.
I never thought I would leaveScientology.
I never thought it would be aplace that I would want to leave
.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, well, I figured , if you're good with it, I
would love to hear how you gotin.
I think part of what makes yourstory unique, at least from my
perspective, is that you grew upChristian, correct?
Yes, that's right, yes, and soobviously most people know
Scientology presents asaccepting people of all

(01:51):
religions, and I'd love toreally dig in to that with you
from your perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, I thought it was.
So.
I grew up Christian.
My dad was a minister and anon-denominational Christian
minister, my mom a gospel singer.
Lots of art, lots of trauma inour family.
My mom was diagnosed paranoid,schizophrenic and for people who
don't know, that is at least itwas back then the highest on
the list until you becomesomebody who hurts others or

(02:21):
hurts themselves.
So yeah, and she was in and outof mental hospitals
institutions.
You know, I spent my eighthbirthday in a foster home
because my mom had kidnapped meand my little sister at the time
because she heard voices and itwould tell her that my dad is
the enemy.

(02:42):
So she'd take off and my dadhad to call the police on her
because kidnapping so quitetraumatic at eight.
And then she'd come back homeand we just pretend like it
didn't happen, you know so realextreme, yeah, and we, we.
I thank God that I had Jesus inmy life during these moments,

(03:03):
because I did have a church, Idid have ministry around me, I
did have understanding thatthere's a community there and
that this isn't my mom.
This is something that'shappening to her, that she's
struggling with and she wouldsay that.
So she was lucid when she waslucid.
She unfortunately died at theyoung age of 50.
Thank you, and it really set meoff the deep end when I lost my

(03:25):
mom because I thought I wasgoing to help her more.
You know, I put it on my heart.
I said I'm going to help her.
I'm going to be a famousactress and singer, I'm going to
make a living and buy a bighouse and move my family.
And you know, I had these bigdreams and backtracking a little
bit when I was three.
I got sexually abused by afamily, friend, and it continued

(03:49):
until.
I was five.
So there was a lot of setup fortrauma and I just Claire, I just
knew I wanted to be an artist,more than anything, I wanted to
make it.
And I wanted to get out thereand move to Hollywood, cause I
grew up in Santa Barbara, I wasborn in Orange County and then
Santa Barbara, california, soSouthern California, just a few
hours from LA, and we moved toBurbank, which is 20 minutes, 15

(04:10):
minutes over, you know, toHollywood.
So, and that's when thingsstarted to get a little bit
crazier for me, when I lost mymom, I kind of felt like, well,
what's the point?
You know, I got into like thesex, drugs, rock and roll,
hollywood, you know, 2009, 2010.
It was this big, like MarilynManson, every goth stuff, and I

(04:34):
got into a lot of that.
And it's the self-expression.
I love the creative expression.
I would be singing, I'd bedancing.
I got with an acting agencythat started trafficking me to
sleep with people for money forso it was just like hit after
hit, and I thank God that Ialways had the smile on my face

(04:55):
because I wouldn't talk aboutthese things, and through that I
mean I also had an abusiverelationship.
So I said, okay, I'm going tomake this, no matter what I'm
going to get out of this life,that I'm in the struggle,
because I know I'm meant forgreater things.
I know I'm meant to create andpush through.
And so Scientology found me atthat point where I didn't have

(05:17):
any sort of counseling.
I'd sort of I had moved awayfrom my Christian faith.
I still would say I'm aChristian, but I wasn't going to
church, I wasn't beingministered to, I wasn't seeking
God daily, I wasn't doing thethings that I needed to do to,
to, to fulfill myselfspiritually.
So when the spiritualtechnology presented itself to
help me with practical tools,which I thought, man, I've had

(05:40):
so much of this happen.
And this personality test isshowing me that the traumas are
not like I can get rid of them,they're not permanent.
And this was at Celebrity CenterInternational.
And I actually came into theCelebrity Center because I had
booked a modeling gig.
So I was modeling, singing,dancing you're trying to booking
all these things and I'd gottenaway from the agency that had

(06:02):
trafficked me.
Thank God, I was only with themfor a year and now I was just
like beat up, tore up from thefloor up Like what is going on.
Is this what Hollywood is.
I'm 22 years old and I'm alreadylike right and Scientology
looks so good, it's so clean,and the celebrity center castle,
which was just I meancelebrities I'm like this is

(06:25):
this is what I came to LA for,this is how I want to be treated
, and they loved me.
They loved me.
They said, oh, we love it.
We need Scientologists like you.
You're black, you're Latina,you're an artist.
You know, you've got it, you'vegot what it takes.
They told me every single thingI wanted to hear Right Classes
there, and you know, you know.

(06:46):
Clear body, clear mind seminars.
I was like, oh, I'm into health, I'm into nutrition, this is so
wow.
These people are smiling, theylook clean, they look happy.
I was really deceived hook, lineand sinker in the beginning,
because why would I doubt this?
I trusted them, you know.
I told them my whole life storyand I was looking for someone

(07:06):
to be my family.
I'd lost so much at that point,right, and they presented such
a great promise of freedom andand and artistic integrity.
And we're going to get youbooked on shows.
I they told me straight up theSear member.
He told me straight up I'mgoing to be your new family.
Consider me, uncle Eric.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh my gosh.
And so let me ask you had youheard of Scientology before this
Like?
Did you have any?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
trepidations going in or what did that look like for
you?
So this is why I speak so muchabout it and I need for people
of all different beliefs andbackgrounds, but especially
Christians, because Christians,you know, when I was raised as a
Christian, I was like, oh,scientology, that's just another
whatever.
It's a cult, but, like allother beliefs are cults, like
you know, it's like Muslim orwhatever, like okay, I respect

(08:01):
them, but it's not for me.
I don't think that it is whatit is.
So I had zero education on whatit is.
I never seen the South Parkepisodes.
You know, this is.
This is 17 years ago now.
For 15 years we didn't have theinternet like we do now.
I mean, you could Google things, but it was like a bunch of
kind of Reddit pages, cause Iremember I Googled it when I

(08:23):
came in and there was a few exScientologists, but it wasn't.
Youtube was.
I don't even know if YouTubewas a thing yet or if it was, it
was a bunch of memes and, youknow, random stuff there.
It wasn't an organized onlineexpose of Scientology.
So I was completely shelteredfrom that and I really was

(08:45):
hurting.
So when they told me all thegood things, they did say well,
have you heard?
You know they?
They tried to pull the black PR, as you know you're trained to
do.
Okay, well, what have you heardabout Scientology?
The only bad thing I had heardabout it, Claire, was that it
was a religion started on a betthat L Ron Hubbard had,
apparently, with CS Lewis andJRR Tolkien, and they said who

(09:05):
can make a religion?
Now I don't even know if that'strue.
Did that actually happen?
That's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
I haven't heard that one before.
I have heard Hubbard said ifyou want to make a million
dollars, start a religion.
That one is more well known.
I'll have to.
I'll take a look and let youknow if I find anything.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I always recommend I don't writer, and
had he made that bet with otherfantasy fiction writers?
Yeah so that was negativeobviously and I so I thought,
okay, and and I did hear that,you know he, I heard that quote
that you said now I've heardthat later that if you want to
start, you want to make amillion dollardollar star
religion, right.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right.
Another thing Hubbard said isthat religion was an implant on
the whole track.
Of course that's referring toprogramming in our millions of
years of lives, allegedly thatwas designed to control people
yeah right, Whatever.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
They just keep adding zeros just to make it make
sense.
Yeah right, whatever, they justkeep adding zeros just to make
it make sense.
Like ah, damn it.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, I know.
I always tell people you can'tinsert too much logic, you just
have to go for the big picture.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Quadrillions.
Did you ever look at theDianetic Lifetime page?
Because you were a class fiveauditor too right.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
You were yes, class four.
You were class four.
I was class four, but you know,whatever I've, I've studied 10
uh.
When I testified as an expertwitness in the danny masterson
trial, I calculated how manyhours of scientology I'd studied
and it was far in excess of 10000.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
So therefore you know hours you're you're a master at
it that it takes 10,000 hoursto be a master.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, so it takes equal amount of time to recover
from all that, especially for me.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
I was born into it, so that's unbelievable and, yeah
, you've done your advocacy andexposing is so needed.
It's so good Because, of course, when I, when I came out, I saw
all your interviews and thewritings and if it wasn't for
you guys like I might've notstayed out because there was

(11:12):
this time where I'm out, butit's very recent and I'm still
vulnerable and I'm still part ofme.
The programming is like well,wait, those are your friends.
It was good with men.
You've invested so much anddon't you want this to be real?
So there's this real two mindsto it, where you're flip
flopping and the only thing Ican imagine is it's like
Stockholm syndrome, too, wherepeople miss their kidnapper,

(11:34):
they miss their abuser.
You almost because you're like,well wait, it can't.
It doesn't make sense that youwere a victim of a cult, so them
of a cult.
So I was.
I was consuming all yourcontent, your interviews and
many other ex Scientologists andI just kept going.
They can't all be wrong aboutthis.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Right?
No, absolutely.
I've heard a psychologist alsocompare it to the sunk cost trap
.
You know, you've poured so muchof your life and money and and
emotions and friendships andrelationships into an
organization and it really doestake, on an individual level,

(12:13):
waking up and really facing thefacts, at least from my
perspective.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, it does.
It's a process, isn't it?
Yeah, how long did it take youonce you left, when you guys
escaped dramatically andliterally escaped from the base?
How long did it take you tojust heal through it, like where
you were, like okay, I was in acult.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yes, I mean, I've always told people because I was
born into it.
My mother joined the Corganization at St Hill in the
UK when I was, when I was fouryears old.
So it was never a choice for me, ever, not even remotely.
So I've always expressed it asthe moment it became a choice.

(12:59):
When I escaped, I decidedthat's it.
But still I had an extensiveroad to recovery because even
just peeling back the language,which I'm sure we'll get into,
you know the language again.
From my perspective, once, whenyou learn that from as even

(13:19):
before I learned English, theEnglish language, I was learning
the language of Scientology,and so all the words that and
the language and the semanticsactually create it, so that
you're doing the work for them.
By the time it's all said anddone, like.
Even just think about the wordblow blown, you know, like this
channel, blown for good.

(13:40):
It means that if you depart,you're a bad person, right, yeah
, yeah, you're blown, yeah.
Which means that if you depart,you're a bad person, right,
yeah, yeah, you're blown, yeah,right.
Which means that you'vecommitted crimes and you have
things you don't want known andyou know and therefore you have
work to do, you know get back.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I always thought wait is if every if a blow is always
is.
The technical term was anunauthorized leaving right.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Of a blow.
Yes, but then what about a?

Speaker 2 (14:06):
divorce or departure, what?
Every divorce is a blow, and Iremember going.
This doesn't make sense.
I mean, every person that'sdivorced, they've blown and then
at some point it has to beauthorized.
Every person that leaves a job.
Did you blow Like it's?
It doesn't.
It does when you dissect it anduse Scientology against
Scientology against their own.
It doesn't make sense.
Like you said, put your ownmind.

(14:26):
Quadrillions of years,quadrillions of years,
quadrillions of years, right,all those right.
It's like for people who don'tknow, that's a drill where you
have to find a timeline, a spoton your on your time track where
something happened and youdrill it, and you have to find a

(14:48):
timeline, a spot on your timetrack where something happened
and you drill it and you have togo up at the end.
Trillions of years,quadrillions of years, right.
I mean all of this craziness.
I go, I go.
Are you an?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
ashtray Down to the inflection of the question.
You're right, because, comingfrom England, people in England,
at least where I grew up don'tgo up at the end of a question.
Yeah, it's so funny.
It's like who are you?
I can't even do it anymore.
I've so converted to-.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
You converted so much American Hasn't Whittle been
witnessed Right, exactly?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Apples.
There's even a diagram in theHubbard reference, the Hubbard
writing about that, showing thego up at the end.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Oh, my gosh and it's drilled.
You are forced to do it.
When I did the training, 12hours a day at St Hill, I was at
St Hill for two years, 12 hoursa day, six days a week.
Every day, the org was open.
I was there.
They closed one day of the weekwhen I was there.
They closed one day of the weekwhen I was there.

(15:51):
And I was in that bubble duringCOVID and the drills upon drills
, upon drills, where you have tohave that inflection, and all
of the sessions that you, as anauditor, as a trained counselor
in Scientology, as a ministerright, high priestess of
Scientology you have to deliverthis and you have to get it
perfect and you have to rewatchyour videos and you get flunk,
flunk and you have to drill,drill, drill.

(16:11):
I had so many breakdowns inthose course rooms, in that
course room down there justtrying to get it right.
Um, just feeling like what iswrong with me, and probably the
fact that I was literally livingoff Red Bulls Kept you going.
Exactly, there might have beena wrong thing about that, right.

(16:33):
And they're just like Are youquestionable?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, let's go.
You don't have to besessionable to be an auditor.
The PC has to be sessionable.
I don't care about you.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Right For sure.
So going back to your firstdays in you, so you were brought
in through Celebrity Center.
Yes, did your family raise anyconcerns?
I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Well, my dad knew I was a Scientologist.
At a certain point I wasactually.
I actually joined staff becauseI couldn't afford the services.
And so I joined staff atSherman Oaks Mission in a two
and a half year contract andthey told me you know you're,
you can do your purif andeverything if you do enough

(17:16):
hours.
So I started doing that and Iwas hiding the fact that I was a
Scientologist or doingScientology.
Took me about a couple monthsto say, okay, well, I guess I am
a Scientologist.
I'm like well.
Someone said, well, are you aScientologist?
I said well, what does thatmean?
They're like well, are you.
And I said, oh okay, I guess Iam one, because it switched over
from I'm just exploring this tolike oh, I guess I am a member

(17:38):
of the group, and theyencouraged and pushed me towards
that.
And that's when I joined staffand my dad received the letters
and all the stuff in the mail,because I was living with my dad
at the time and he's like Ifinally said.
I said, dad, I'm aScientologist, I'm doing
Scientology, and I was scaredthat he was going to throw me

(18:00):
out or be angry and upset, andinstead he was actually very
kind and he said I knew that, Isaw the mailings.
And then he made a joke.
You know, joking and degrading.
He was like Tom Cruise.
Tell him.
I said hi, go clear.
My dad was funny, my dad wasreally funny but he wasn't.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
He wasn't opposed, but he, he knew he was.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, I think my dad felt guilty of all the things
that had happened to us in ourchildhood and with what he was
dealing with.
And my sister had moved back inthe house and she was dealing
with her stuff and you know wehad this fallout and my dad
trusted me and he was my bestfriend, my best friend.
That's why I have daddy's girltattooed on me with the tiger

(18:41):
and you know he, he was alwaysthere for me and I, I know he
prayed for me to get out, butpart of him must've felt like
she'll get out when, when it'smeant to be.
And he did the right thing.
Because had he said you have toleave Scientology, that's not
good.
He actually said he knewScientologists in the seventies.
He said, oh, they did a lot of.
They did a lot of good works.

(19:02):
He said so he knew them fromthe PR campaigns in the 70s.
I know my dad, looking at it now, didn't approve of it, but he
didn't want to shun me had hedone that and said, oh no, no
child of mine is a Scientologist.
That's satanic.
It just would have pushed medeeper in, right, because now
I'm like, oh well, he's being anSP about it and I was

(19:24):
completely already manipulatedat that point.
I mean, it only took a coupleof weeks for me to so go deep
into it and by the third month,because I was just, I was a
sponge.
I was looking for something tofill me up and heal me at the
time, and I was also.
They just had so many thingsgoing on, so many events and

(19:44):
open mic nights, and I was ableto sing.
You know, they were like comesing and here's another fashion
show, and so I was able to feellike it's a community center.
That's the special thing aboutthe celebrity center they trap
artists with such a deceptiveaesthetic appeal.
And then also and this is aplace for you to be creative,
you know, sit in the office fora while and, just you know, soak

(20:06):
up the atmosphere and there's,there's beautiful manicured
lawns, in the middle of a of adirty crackhead area in
Hollywood, there's this gorgeousFrench castle with with
fountains and marble interiorsand a little cafe, and you can
sip your $25 green juice andfeel like one of the elites of

(20:26):
Hollywood.
You know, yeah, like well, I'mspecial and that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, and you're right, the glossy facade is very
much how they tend to lurepeople into thinking.
Hey, I mean, that's their wholestrategy.
Right, it is, it is, and so,yeah, go ahead, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I stayed on staff for a while and then I got
recruited into the Sea Org.
Wow, I didn't know that part Iknow I was only on the EPF
though.
So you know, for people whodon't know, I say Sea Org for
one month, but technically Iwasn't fully in the C org, I
wasn't posted.
I did the EPF for one month.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
But that means you had signed a billion year
contract.
How did they approach that withyou?
I'm and again I'm curiousbecause I escaped in 2005.
So you got in after I wasalready speaking out.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
I wish I would have been able to see yeah, you, yeah
.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
And I was living in Burbank at the time, no less.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
No way, that's crazy Because.
I got in in 2011.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, okay, so 2011, mid 2011,.
We moved to Colorado, but my,my two older boys were both born
at in Burbank.
So wow, that is crazy.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
And my husband now was born in Burbank and I we
were living.
We grew up.
I grew up in Burbank After wemoved.
When we moved to LA, we livedin Burbank.
My dad's house was in Burbank,so we were neighbors.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, right.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
You could have passed by and seen each other and not
known.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, exactly, I could have been like hey, Joy,
don't think about it.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, don't go there.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, that's funny and also Small World.
My stepfather was the ED of theBeverly Hills Mission, so he
was like the CEO of the BeverlyHills Mission but also worked
extensively with the shermanoaks mission.
Oh my god, who is your stepdad?

Speaker 2 (22:29):
his name is hugh witt , hugh witt, I did not know him,
I did not.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, he's he's still in.
Uh goes without saying.
I mean it.
I guess it doesn't go withoutsaying, but my entire family is
still in.
Yeah, I'm so sorry.
That's okay.
You know what it's everythinghappens for a reason.
I would have been, I would Iwouldn't be here today if I, if
I hadn't escaped.
So I made my choices and I'mthat's.

(22:57):
You know, you, you do what youhave to do to be at peace with
yourself.
A bit of a side story, but myhusband does audio visual for
museums and back in 2010, he dida Ray Charles Museum in LA and
as part of one of the exhibits,there was a video from BB King

(23:19):
and he talked about how Raywould always say that at the end
of the day, when you lay yourhead down on the pillow, the
person you have to be at peacewith is yourself, and that
really, I mean it's.
You know that was 15 years ago.
It stuck with me so hardcore.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Wow, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
That's really true.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
So so, going back to, so you're getting in, so, okay,
billion year contract.
How did they approach you onthat and what was your thoughts,
feelings, what was that likethem every step of the way?
I was challenging them.
I was I would say that's a redflag.
I was not.
I was like, oh, this is achance I can be with all my
friends because I love the SeaOrg.
I felt like they understood me,I would, they would talk to me

(24:21):
and they would be smiling andfriendly.
And there was very young peoplelike me who seem like executives
, seem like bosses, and the menand the women and I admire them
and I thought, whoa.
And when they said you know,they basically wanted me to.
They said we want you to workhere.
That's what they told me atcelebrity center.
They said we, you know, joy, wewant you to work here.
I was like you guys want me towork here in this beautiful

(24:42):
place.
And, yeah, it wasn't that hardfor me to go.
Well, what does that mean?
How do I work there?
And they put me in a room, theyput the contract out and you
know how they do they close thedoor and they hard sell you on
that idea.
And they are so good Recruiters, are so good at finding your

(25:03):
ruin, your weak points andexposing them.
And I wanted family.
I had a button on the thirddynamic.
I wanted the group, I wanted afamily.
I wanted my my people, who aremy people.
I'd lost my mom.
I only had my dad left andextended family that were far
out of the state, and it wasn'treally real to me at the time to

(25:25):
travel or go.
It was just like I have to.
I don't really.
I didn't have a lot of moneyand you know, I had my adopted
older brother.
I used to sleep on his couch alot, and so I I kind of was like
in this situation where Ithought, well, I don't really
have much of a life anyways,what a great thing to save the
planet and to do great things.
And they told me you can be aChristian.
And so and they oh my gosh,they fast track that so quick

(25:50):
when I signed it and they werelike just sign it, we'll make it
work out.
And then I said I have to askmy dad.
And they're like no, you're anadult, you're over 18.
You're fine, you're fine.
And it was within 24 hours.
Hours, I was in pack base and Iwas in the EPF and I was there
with the bunk beds six girls andyou know your three t-shirts,

(26:13):
that you are your shirt, yourundershirts and your shirts.
You know the whole uniforms andI was like, oh my gosh, and I,
and I thought, I really felt atthe time that I was a part of
something magical and momentous.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, and so, for anyone listening, epf, of course
, is Estates Project Force,which is really I would describe
it as a very grueling programto immediately train you on your
perspective as a member of theSea Organization and to where
you get to prove that you're fitto be in the Sea Organization.

(26:50):
So Joy, what went wrong?

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I know how come I well, it became really bad
really fast.
It was grueling, it wasactually torture and it was
physical labor hours and hoursevery day and then you have a
few hours of course room and thefaster you completed your
course time, the faster youcould get through the APF.

(27:13):
Now I've always been very booksmart and you know learning to
clear my words.
I mean, I was a brand newScientologist and in Scientology
you have all of these protocolson how to operate, how to read,
how to do things.
I think at that point I'd onlydone two life improvement
courses.
Did those come out?
Wow?
So you were really really brandnew.
Oh, I was raw.

(27:33):
Maybe I'd done my Purif, but itwas like the first time Purif.
So Scientology went through GATTtoo, right, golden Age of
Technology too, and they hadthis whole thing where
everything before kind of didn'tcount and you have to redo it.
So they so and they said well,cause we were fast tracking
people too much, you got to redoit.

(27:55):
And of course you don't getcredit, you got to pay it again
and now let's take more and domore.
So I was.
This was before that.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Despite the fact, by the way, that Hubbard says you
can never do a major action overagain, right I?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
forgot that he said that he did what dumb.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
If you've reached the end phenomena, you can't redo
it.
Oh, but unless.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Oh, you're right, that must have been David
Miscavige's money.
Grab let's just make everybodyredo their bridge.
It's SPs.
They're everywhere.
They invaded it.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, the redo of the purification rundown had
started at the base even beforeI escaped.
Executives there, like AmyScobie and others, were being
made to redo the purificationrundown because allegedly even
though, like in Amy's's case,she was brought in as a young
child, um, she hadn't done itenough and she hadn't reached

(28:50):
the m phenomena.
Anyway, that's a oh it's.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
There's so many rabbit holes we could go down
there is exactly, it's so, it's,it's, it's insanity.
And when you look at it it'ssuch a complex insanity and it's
a bewitchment.
And the roots of Scientologyare witchcraft.
L Ron Hubbard studiedwitchcraft.
He used all of that.
He repackaged it.

(29:13):
He studied hypnotism.
He repackaged it.
So all of this stuff that theytell you Scientology when you're
in Scientology, it's not tomake the able more able, to make
you more free, to make you moreaware.
No, we're making you program,we're making you less aware.
And in the EPF it was so.
It was so confusing to mebecause I that's when it really

(29:39):
started for me to feel like I'mnot good enough.
Somehow I can't hack this and Iwould have breakdowns.
I'd be the happiest, I'd besinging, because you're broken
up into groups and you have yourgroup C group.
You know C, c, c unit, and Iused to always joke with my unit
Cause we'd have to you getcompletions, you have to wash a
thousand dishes Right and you'rethere with like I'm there with
like six other people that are18.

(30:02):
There was underage people.
There was old people likewhoever ragtag people that are
18.
There's underage people.
There's old people like whoeverragtag people that they
recruited that month or whatever.
People would come in.
One guy, he got this huge eyeinfection and he had to leave.
Like people would drop likeflies and they would go off
because it's so rough and theyreally do want the strongest to
survive.
As you know, they want likepeople who are so dedicated.

(30:25):
And they told us we're going tobe the first ideal C org
because we're pushing ideal orgsand this is the ideal C orgs
2011.
And I have some psych history,so I had been in a psychiatric
ward for three weeks and theyknew about it and that was
something that came up and theysaid, okay, well, we can't get

(30:46):
this fully approved.
You need to be on some sort ofprogram before you're able to go
.
Come back.
And I talked to Scientologistswhen I was in Scientology and
they're like, oh, you never sawa fit board or it right now and
you have to be out.
You can't join the Sea Org.

(31:11):
And that broke my heart Because, as bad as it was in there as
mentally torturous and taxing, Ithought I was going to get
through boot camp to get the funpart.
I'm part of my group and it'samazing and you get food made
for you and you get all youraccommodations.
They make it almost like theysold it as this spiritual.

(31:33):
You work hard, but it's almostlike it felt like a spiritual
vacation in a way, because theypushed it on me like you're not
going to have troubles, youdon't have to pay rent, you
don't have to pay this, youdon't have to worry about SPs
outside, you don't have to worryabout troubles.
So you're going to be in thisnirvana with people who think

(31:53):
like you and you're going towork hard, but you're going to
love it because you're you'reworking for Commodore.
They really sold it, whichobviously people hearing who've
never been in are like that's acult joy.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right For sure.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
And did they include as well that you would be going
up the bridge and, yes, free andall that absolutely apps.
Everything's provided for you.
You get to have spiritualfreedom and and because I asked
a lot of questions and then Iwas like, oh, I can't leave.
And they're like, well, if youdid, it'd be like saying a huge
f?
You to all your friends.
You wouldn't want to do thatand they knew that that would
get.
I was like, oh, I wouldn't wantto do that and they knew that
that would get.
I was like, oh, I don't want tobe, I want to be a good girl, I
want to be part of this coolclub and you know, at this, at

(32:34):
this time.
So I was a month in and I leftand I was crying and I was so
sad and I had my guitar with me.
I play guitar and I just feltlike a total reject.
And they said, well, we'regoing to give you another
program so you can come back in.
And then I went to back onstaff.
I went back on staff and I wasjust like, all right, I'll go

(32:56):
back on staff.
I'm technically not X year.
I had no bill for those courses.
Thank God I didn't have it andit was just kind of like I was
forgotten about.
And then I said you know what?
I'm going to be such asuccessful actress and artist.
I'm going to make everybody inScientology proud and I'm going
to make myself proud and I'mgoing to make an impact on this

(33:17):
life.
I'm going to be just such agood artist.
And they also were like oh, youdon't have to be in the CR, you
can still support us andfinancially, you can donate.
You can?
You know they?
And they gave me this song anddance.
And then I ended up meetingsomebody who was a very rich and
successful Scientologist I wasa year in at this point and he,

(33:41):
I met him in celebrity centerand and I started I kind of
started started falling off fromScientology a little bit.
I was doing it, but then Istarted going okay, well, I'm
not in this year, I'm going todo auditions and I'm going to.
You know, get out there andhustle.
And then they kept pulling meback and they were like we want
you to meet this guy.
Well, I had met him online, butthey, I met him, I'd met him at

(34:02):
Celebrity Center and then hehad became a follower on my
Facebook.
And then we had we had talkedcause he's a photographer and I
was modeling and and so he'slike, oh, I want to give you a
photo shoot.
And then he met me back in LosAngeles and the staff members
were like this is a good one,you should get with this guy.
And so they kind of they kindof pushed me and I and I trusted

(34:22):
them and I ended up beingmarried to this man.
We got married and we weretogether for seven years and I
he was 21 years older than me.
Oh my gosh.
Already in Scientology for 27years from Denmark and was a

(34:43):
patron $50,000 in with the IASright International.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
He was deep in.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
He was, was deep in and I'm sure he wanted a
beautiful young wife and so theydo do that kind of pairing in
there.
Yeah, and of course I wantedwho wouldn't want a rich,
handsome husband?
Okay, and and I was sort of andI know at that point because of
where I was going and I look atit and I I said God, everything

(35:11):
I thought I could get with himand Scientology I would have
figured out.
Probably almost definitely, hadI not married a Scientologist,
I would have left within thatfirst year, because 90% of
people find Scientology leavewithin the first year.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, and for sure no , absolutely and had cracks for
you, I'm curious if cracks hadhad started forming, and if so,
what were those and what did itlook like?
And at some point, was that,did your Christianity come into
conflict?

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes.
Well, when I was in the EPF, Iwould pray before my meals and
they asked me who are youpraying to?
And I was like what do you mean?
I'm praying to God?
And they were just like okay,and I started to see it was it.
It was different in the EPF.
Like it's like we own you,you're going to do what we say.
Right, that was.

(36:05):
That was a red flag for me.
That was like, oh, this isdoesn't feel like what they
promised, yeah.
And then when I was out and Iwas on staff and then it just
started, it became where I said,well, maybe it's pack base,
there's something wrong withthat base.
They don't understand me as anartist, because celebrity
centers got my back, they know,with all my wild colors and my,

(36:27):
my random friends I'd bring inand you know, and like sit at
the juice bar and I felt likethis was a safe place for me and
I was sober at the time and Ididn't.
I didn't even eat meat, I wasvegan.
I was very disciplined and so Iliked how disciplined and how
they would crack the whip andthey'd be like they got me to do
a course on Christmas day.
Like they would be like do acourse, and I was like, okay,

(36:49):
okay, I need someone to whip meinto shape, like I thought this
was help.
I thought this was counselingand even though it was very
stressful, again, I thought itwas that person.
That person was stressful, thatperson's out of line, right,
it's that person who keepswriting reports about me, that
it's them.

(37:09):
It's not the whole organization.
So I was very like shelteredfrom seeing it.
I saw things that were wrong,but I thought L Ron Hubbard is a
humanitarian and this is COBwants the best for us and this
is they're changing that.
And, of course, you go to theevents and you're constantly
getting the propaganda, your conand everyone's smiling and
looking at you and you'rereading these things and it's,
it's just three days on coursebecame four days on course,

(37:31):
became eventually I was oncourse every single day.
I could be and I would, but itagain I was starting to fall
back and go okay, well, maybe Ineed to just do a day or two on
course and get back, as theseawork thing didn't work out,
that that threw me for a loop,and I do know that the people
who saw that they must have seenit, because I'm not as slick as

(37:53):
I think I am.
You know I think you'rethinking inside, but they see
you.
You know I'm very expressiveand of course I would say things
.
I'm very honest.
I wear my heart on my sleeve.
So I know they're like okay, wedon't get this girl paired in
with a rich Scientologist ordoing something, we're gonna
lose her.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Okay, we don't get this girl paired in with a rich
Scientologist or doing somethingwe're going to lose her
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, I mean, that's my idea, because it felt very
like, okay, okay, okay, well,let's try this.
And then, getting with him,Mike's husband, we traveled
around the world.
So I went to works around theworld and then together we
became IAS major donators andthey would reg him through me.
And then I started making money.
I was modeling for hisworkshops, his photography

(38:34):
workshops, and I was doing allkinds of things.
I started doing music more, Istarted exploring things because
it was like, okay, and he waslike do a couple courses and sit
back, smoke a cigarette, have acup of coffee, donate, leave me
alone.
Like a club Scientologist, likethey would use it as a, as a
club to meet people and be eliteand the kids.

(38:55):
But and I liked that I was like, ooh, he's got status Suddenly.
I didn't have to be on staff, Ididn't have to work for my
status, I could just donatemoney.
But it became more increasingpressure that if you're going to
do that path, you've got todonate a lot of money.
So now they were like hey, weknow, you just came back from
your tour.
Uh, you know, we're trying tosave children from psychiatrics

(39:18):
and blah, blah, blah, blah andthen get kids off of drugs.
And so the 50,000 he initiallyput in, they, they told me this
and I was like, okay, well thenI was like honey, let's, let's
donate more money.
This is, this is saving theworld.
And they would put us in roomsand they would.
It would be hours long regsessions and they would bring in
all the people from the CEO orwould come in and be like, hey,

(39:40):
I mean, it would just be hoursand hours and then we would
relent and it would be another50,000.
And before I knew it we were $1million into the IAS gold
meritorious with the medals.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
I still have that necklace.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I saw my class five pin.
I threw away all my books, allmy PTS literature.
I kind of wish I didn't, causeI could go on YouTube and point
it out.
I kind of you know.
But in my healing journey I waslike I want this stuff out of
my house, but I didn't.
The necklace I'm like this isreal gold.
I'll melt this down orsomething.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
The only thing that that that snuck out and when
they gave us our belongingsbecause we escaped, obviously
was a pair of gold OT earringswith the little diamond in them.
Oh my, I know I'm like cringe.
Oh my gosh, did you melt themdown?
Do you still have them?
No, I still have them.
I'm like hell.

(40:38):
I'm not touching those with a10 foot pole.
They're cursed.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I know it feels like it.
Right, that's how I felt withall my my books.
I had the PDCs, thePhiladelphia doctorate courses.
When I read all the the satanic, spiritual, woo, new age stuff
in there I was like, oh, I'mgoing to throw up.
When I read, when I'mdiscovering where all this stuff
comes from, and his son rightor grandson posing, I'm like

(41:02):
that's where he put.
And everyone talks about thePDCs, the Philadelphia doctorate
.
I never did those, Thank God,and those of course are.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Magic is those were from like the fifties, I think,
right, 1952 or 1953.
Yeah, yeah, of L Ron Hubbardgiving lectures in the early,
very early days of Scientology.
That's just just for context,for anyone who's wondering what
that is.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
But yeah, you are pushed, coerced and absolutely
bombarded via text message, inperson, emails that come to your
house.
You've got to do your next stepon the bridge.
So you buy those things and youkeep them quiet a little bit.
Now you've got to start thatthing.
You keep them quiet.
It's always a constant.
You're not doing enough.
So I bought all the lectures Ibought 10 times over.

(41:46):
We need to put all the books inthe library 10 grand.
There you go.
You need the red editionspecial e-meter $15,000.
All right, you got money onaccount at flag.
Use it for this.
We need constantly open upcredit cards.
I mean, the money was flowing.
There was this golden time whereI'm traveling with my husband
and I'm at flag and I'm likethis is the it's even bougier

(42:08):
than celebrity center.
I'm like, oh, I'm a small towngirl with big bougie dreams,
right, champagne tastes on abeer budget.
I was not raised around thisstuff but I grew up with the
fantasy of film and televisionand wanting to create that.
And the first year when I metmy ex-husband cause we're
divorced now year when I met myex-husband because we're

(42:31):
divorced now, of course, but mydad died and that drove me,
claire, in such a depressionbecause he really was my
spiritual guardian, my covering,and it drove me.
There was where I was on theprecipice and that was the first
year in Scientology.
And now it's like, well, Idon't have a dad.
This man is now my guardian, myhusband.

(42:52):
It was right before we gotmarried, we were engaged and
then, no, it was right before Imet him.
It was right before I met him.
My dad died and that put me insuch a depression.
I was depressed and grievingwhen I met my ex-husband.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad.
He sounds sounds like he was anamazing person he was.
He would have loved you.
I'm sure he's happy to to to tosee you now.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
He exactly, exactly, and I'll see him again in heaven
, you know.
But yeah, it was.
It was an intense time, atumultuous time, and and then so
I just threw myself into my newlife and we had all these
beautiful photos and I was inItalian Vogue and we're getting
all these accolades fromScientology and I was bringing
people into Scientology.

(43:40):
I brought over 100 people intoScientology Wow, that that I
know, probably more.
But I got awarded for thatright and they give me accolades
.
And I mean, I was the goldengirl of Scientology.
I was doing services and I wasstill donating money.
And then I was traveling andthey put posters of me get
trained because I did solo one.

(44:01):
And then they were like we wantto get you on your training
lineup.
And then I did all of thesethings.
I did, I went clear and then Idid the next steps for OT preps
and then, oh yeah, there'ssomething called superpower.
You know about superpower now?
Of course I do.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
You know funny side story, joy.
When I joined the Corganization in 1991, I was
recruited to be a superpowerauditor.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Oh my gosh, you could have been my auditor to be a
superpower auditor.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Oh my gosh, you could have been my auditor.
It never happened then, but yes, I'm very well aware of
superpower and the cause orsurgeons rundown, which used to
be called the running program,which was actually to handle
people who were constantly introuble.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Are you serious?
So you know more about it.
You read all the confidentialstuff.
This is amazing.
I have questions for you aboutit.
You read all the confidentialstuff.
This is amazing.
I have questions for you aboutthis.
So I did both, and so I went in2013.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Now it's 2013.
And it's the brand new goldenage of tech too, and and so at
this point, you're still justtwo years into your career as a
Scientologist, correct?
Still just two years into yourcareer as a.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Scientologist correct , yeah, but this time I'm like
I'm a superstar.
I'm two years in but I am fullblast because I'm like this is
my chance.
I may not be a Sea Org member,but I can do it like the Sea Org
.
And I was so religious about itbecause I was trying to prove
myself and I had so many wounds.
I wanted that attention, Ineeded that love and that
affirmation and that you did agood job.

(45:30):
That pat on the shoulder, andit is my love language.
You know words of affirmation,acknowledgement, right, but I
was desperate for it at thattime and they were oh Joy,
you're so amazing.
Wow, yes, yes.
If you did this, you would helpus so much.
Oh, thank you.
And all the love, bombing, allthe things.

(45:50):
I thought oh man and I knowthere's good people stuck in
Scientology For sure you weren'tevil when you were doing what
you were doing.
I wasn't evil when I was doingit.
And people who think allScientologists are evil they're
victimized by evil cults.
The upper echelon is evil.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, in fact, most people get lured in at the
outset and I'm sure you'd agreewith this because they want to
help people.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Yes, absolutely that was the biggest thing.
That's why I trained.
I was like I can help people.
This becomes a ministry, itbecomes a motivational factor,
and so when we did superpower,so that was the big thing.
So when we did superpower, sothat was the big thing.

(46:33):
I did superpower.
And right after I didsuperpower, I I walked the
Grammy's red carpet, and I haddone that a few times before,
but this time I was in a Trumpdress at the Grammy's Right.
And I remember hearing aboutthis right, it was worldwide
phenomenon and suddenly I was asuperstar, like in a way I'd
never had before, like I was.

(46:53):
I remember being on the planeand I would look and I saw
everybody had their phones outand it had pictures of me in it
and I was like this is crazy,like in the dress it was.
It was top news and it becamesomething where, of course, I, I
, you know.
Then I worked on that news andpromoted more and then I got
invited to the White House, Ibecame on the Trump advisory
campaign and you know all ofthis stuff.

(47:15):
I'm not, as I'm not aspolitically charged as I was
active, because at the end, it'snot about politics, it doesn't
do anybody.
And there's so much black andwhite and he said, she said, and
hate on both sides.
I just I got very over it andnow I'm like, if it's not
ministry related, if it's notactually helping people, I don't
really want to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
You know, yeah, that makes sense.
And so was Scientologyencouraging you and trying to
capitalize on this, or what wasthe reaction there when all this
was going on?
It?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
was so weird, claire, because it was both that,
because I was now a celebrityand I was on the news, I was
doing interviews.
They were like see, that'ssuperpower.
And I can't explain it to thisday because there are wins that
I had in Scientology.
But I also know, looking at it,that I would have had those
regardless, because I was alwaysa hard worker, I was always

(48:07):
very vocals, always like let'sdo the next thing, and I was
very studied and and I am asinger, songwriter I had music
out acting.
I was always going after mygoals.
I was built like that, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, I always frame that as don't underestimate the
power of belief right.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yes exactly.
Like it's not the Sea Org thatcrafted you into that hard
worker.
You were a hard worker, youwere smart.
You would have been smart ifyou had been in Google, if you
had been anywhere right when youare now.
It's like we are these types ofpeople and there is something
in Scientology where they knowhow to take advantage and
exploit the people that, likeyou said, want to help and who

(48:44):
are bright.
They have, like a brightness.
You can always tell the peoplethat are like oh, they're going
someplace, yeah, they grab andand they say they want to make
the able more able.
But they really want to takethe able and make you a part of
their system.
Is what right?
Capitalize on the able exactly,and take full credit.
So they took full credit for it.
They're like that superpowerhas caused resurgence.
You better thank cob in yourspeech.

(49:05):
I remember I wrote a speech andI didn't think COB in it and I
said do I have to thank COB andL Ron Hubbard?
And they said, yeah.
So all of those speeches and ofcourse you know they change the
speeches and make you do it.
So I was the golden child andnow they love that.
I was famous Um, they loved it,but the pushback from you know

(49:35):
negative writings and negativepushback on politics, the
controversial aspect they didnot like because suddenly
Scientology started coming up inthe conversation, cause I was
overt that I was a Scientologist.
I'd already done a meet aScientologist I'm a
Scientologist video.
I published it.
Cause they took it down Now ofcourse I'd already had you know
I was.
They didn't have Scientology TVat that time but now that video
showed all over Scientology TV.

(49:55):
Now not anymore, I'm sure, butyou know I was.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
You'd be surprised actually Really, we should take
a look and see.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Well, they took it off their YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Oh well, we've helped people through the Aftermath
Foundation's work, and even sixmonths later, I mean obvious.
Of course it goes withoutsaying that the people we help
are kept anonymous for their ownsafety.
If they decide to speak outlike you, then great, wonderful.
But that's never going to be apart of the conversation.
If someone needs help gettingout, but so Scientology may or
may not have conversation of.

(50:27):
If someone needs help gettingout, but so Scientology may or
may not have known that wehelped get this person out.
Nonetheless, six months later,their videos were still up.
Are you they're?

Speaker 2 (50:38):
slow with that, for sure, and I thought you know.
I mean I'm like where are allthe websites on me?
What's going on?
Yeah, I'm glad they're not fairgame to the extreme.
I do see some comments andthere's there's some limited,
there's some stuff that they'redoing, but it's not extreme,
thank god, yeah, um, but I thinkalso, I don't know, maybe they

(50:59):
have to change their tactics atsome point, because it's been
talked about, it's though,though you know, as you know,
scientology, in my experience,is incapable of change.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I mean, our last instance of fair game was this
past Thursday.
We got an email frominvestigative journalist at
Freedom Magazine trying toharass us.
Gosh, are you serious?

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yep, what did they?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
try to say oh, like working on some article about
some business that we ran in2014, where it had to do with
product reviews.
A friend of ours was selling onAmazon.
I mean, it's literally patheticand stupid.
It's just an attempt to harass.
Listen, claire.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
We saw in 2009,.
You did a negative Yelp reviewof that sushi restaurant.
We need to cover it becausethat's what we would do.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
You're a bigot who uses the word bigot, I know
exactly Dead giveaway Anyone whosays that in the comments.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Oh, dead giveaway when I see all of my Twitter.
You're a bigot.
This isn't cool.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I'm like yeah, okay, and you know they have AI bots.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, yeah, I found one that's that was harassing me
.
I just blocked them.
That's an AI girl, that's likeand it I know because I'm in the
space.
I have a business where I have,I use AI tools and and you know
, I I I'm always searching whatcould I use.
This is where they can make anAI version of you and it moves
weird, though it's really goodif you don't know, but if you

(52:29):
know that they.
And then I said and I waswalking like the movements don't
match.
Yeah, they have an AI girl.
She looks like just some randomblonde, normal person and she's
like yeah, so I saw that thisis absolutely wrong and that joy
Vila it's not.
And she said so.
She was never really aScientologist or whatever their
thing was.
And I was just like this is sofake, this is so lame, but

(52:53):
they'll do whatever they have toto try to yeah, and I always
say you know, I again fromhaving grown up in Scientology,
they're all.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Their many labels were terrifying to me, but then
I realized, you know, the onlypower they have over me is the
power I grant them.
And so I'm what's that?
I said, preach it Hallelujah.
Yes, there you go.
I know you're having your voiceand your freedom.
Nothing, nothing.

(53:22):
That's.
That's what that's what it isto you know.
Seize what's in front of youand be the good, as they say, as
in the words of Gandhi, that'sright.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
So when's your TED Talk coming out?
I want to see a TED Talk fromyou, Claire.
You got full of wisdoms andencouragement.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
I did do a TED Talk, you did, I did.
Well, no, sorry I take it backI auditioned for one, I did, but
this was right before COVID hit.
I was going to do it in Denverand then, of course, everything
got shut down and life got inthe way and I got busy.
But no, the the one that Idrafted and auditioned for was
specifically on what it's liketo be born into a cult, because

(54:06):
one of the questions from myexperience that I struggle with
is people are like hey, you seemlike a smart, normal person.
Like, why did it take you solong to get out?
Well, I mean, birth to 30 wasmy, my Scientology story 30 like
that, like that's your whole.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
it's not your whole life, because now you're, you
have your life, but yeah, forsomebody else it's like like
that's you're you have your life, but yeah, for somebody else
it's like like that's that'syour most formulative years of
completely completely, andthat's always.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
And also to the point of my ted, my auditioned ted
talk, I should say, is I ted?
Talk yes, there you go.
I always, as now, being a momof three boys, I firmly am
dedicated to the belief that itshould be illegal to involve
children in cults.

(54:57):
End of story.
End of story Formative years.
What children need isunconditional love and support
and education, and Scientologyis frankly opposed to all of
those things.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
They are they are.
And and and the fact that youcould be born into something
without your choice and bemanipulated and coerced and
abused.
It's it's child trafficking.
You were trafficked to work forthe cult for free, for $50 a
week, for 30 years, whether youwere in it you were.

(55:30):
You were groomed as a baby, asa kid.
Cause you had no, you werenever given a choice and kids
can't consent.
Kids can't consent Nope.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Nope, exactly, exactly, right, so okay.
So back to your story though.
Yeah, so at what point in thelater years did did you start to
realize this was not for you?
How did you contemplate, like,what did that process look like
in terms of even having doubtsand not being able to express

(56:02):
those?
Walk me through that part?

Speaker 2 (56:05):
yeah, because it became a.
It became a weird trap where Ifelt like I had this metal cage
around my neck and it was likethis and I couldn't, you know,
like almost those horse blinders.
I couldn't look to right, Icouldn't look to left.

(56:27):
You know indoctrination and Idid the, the false purpose
rundown, which is, you know, sexchecking, whole track, which is
interrogation, yeah,interrogation for evil purposes
and intentions that are holdingyou back.
Right On this life and your andyour past lives Exactly, and

(56:47):
it's so dehumanizing and you'recoming up with I don't know I
pocketed the change.
I should have done this.
I forgot to put the plants out.
You're just trying to findanything that can read on that,
because I mean it was hours andhours and hours.
Now that didn't stop.
It started because of mytraumatic background.
I know that they went throughall of those scenarios through a

(57:10):
very fine-tooth comb, but theywould say, okay, we didn't, the
CS wants more information.
And they would keep bringing upthe same stuff and I would.
They're like we have to hit itat all the different ways.
And it started being so hard tofunction and be a good
Scientologist.
It was like it was like theywouldn't let me just live and

(57:33):
every time I reached a sort ofspeaking engagement or fame,
they were like we have to send ahandler out to you.
You do another Grammys, we haveto send somebody there.
So I was not allowed to reallybe alone.
Now I experienced theScientology celebrity treatment
where I was.
It was really where I wasconstantly locked under,

(57:53):
surveillance of what I was doing, and that was like they would
constantly call me, text me.
Um, when we stayed in LosAngeles, we lived in the
celebrity center for six years.
We lived there like half thetime of the year.
I'd be in that celebrity centerin the wow.
You're literally living there,literally living there.

(58:15):
I mean beautiful, gorgeous.
In Kirstie Alley's room thatshe designed the blue wallpaper
you can see in Leah Remini's oneof her videos.
Yeah, when she was in she doesthat interview in a room with
blue, like what was it calledEau de toile, so that kind of
you know, it's like aRenaissance scene and blue on

(58:35):
white paper.
It's, it's very, it's veryRenaissance looking and the bed
has posts and sheets and I meanit's.
It's my ideal standard oflooking like I'm, like, I'm in a
castle.
I love this.
I'm in a French castle, frenchProvincial.
That was where I lived for sixyears and it was very, it was
beautiful, but it was a prison,right, because as soon as I

(58:56):
would get to the elevator I'm inthe org and it's.
You had to pay, you had to dothe course.
It's an elevator ride rightdown to the next step and it
became really hard to have twominds to be a Christian and a
Scientologist.
I would, I would giveinterviews and I'd say I'm a
Christian Scientologist and I Iwanted to safe point
Christianity.
I wanted them to get it becauseI also wanted them to alleviate

(59:18):
my pressure, the feeling that Ihad that I was in something
dark and wrong, like I'm, like Ijust want other people to get
it so that I cause that's reallywhat it is is them they're not
getting it.
I knew there was something off,but I couldn't put my finger on
what it was.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
During so that makes sense and during the years that
you were starting to feel thatthings were off, did you did?
Did you have fear that if youdid try to break away,
Scientology would useinformation you'd given them
against you?
Was that a fear that you had orno?

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Um, I think it was because I was married to a
Scientologist.
It was never like I'm going tobreak away from Scientology.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
It's like I just have to work this out.
It wasn't until 2020.
So 2019, I got divorced.
Uh, there was infidelity andthere was issues going on on his
side and I was just like thisisn't going to work and I felt
very neglected, because it was avery it was.
I wasn't allowed to cry infront of my husband, so I he
would just leave the room.

(01:00:20):
So I learned how to hide myemotions and, as a good
Scientologist does right, putyour TRs in it was so hard.
No case on post, exactly, andyou know everybody was on that
on that side.
Just don't you know, don't showit off.
And and my ex-husband wouldtell me just go and go in

(01:00:41):
session, just talk about insession.
I don't want to hear it Talkabout inside.
You're hungry, go get your, goget your body words in very much
.
And so I realized, okay, thisisn't going to work.
I'm very vocal, I'm veryoutspoken and in the politics
arena, they wanted me to run forCongress.
So I was looking at running forCongress.
And that's when Scientologywanted you to run for people in

(01:01:02):
the white house and voters, andand I I'm getting thousands of
messages from people.
I'm doing my lives, I'm doing aspeaking tour.
I wrote a book, I'm at, youknow.
So all this stuff is happening.
I'm doing movies, I'm doing mymore music.
I hit number one on Billboard,itunes, amazon.
I'm doing tours.
I'm an independent sensation,I'm doing my living, my art, and

(01:01:22):
I'm in a lot of theseconservative circles and they're
like Joy, you need to run forCongress, we need your voice
because I'm very outspoken, I'mon Twitter and blah, blah, blah.
And that was when I said, okay,I'll start a congressional run
and it'll be like maybe inFlorida, because we were looking
at moving to Florida.
You know I'm at flag all thetime.
Why not be at Florida?
And that is when Scientologypulled me into a room I'll never

(01:01:44):
forget, in the president'soffice at celebrity center, and
they told me you cannot run forCongress, scientology is not
political.
And that is when I did pushback because I was like how dare
you tell me what I can andcannot do?
And they're like read thesereferences, word clear these
references.
So I spent days word clearingall these references and nothing

(01:02:06):
in there that L Ron Hubbardsays is a Scientologist can't be
political.
And I said that to him.
I said this also Scientologist,not Scientology.
And that's when they said westill don't want you running for
Congress.
And they actually told me aboutthe guardian's office and what
they had done.
Kind of they said we had somepeople, some SPs, that got in

(01:02:29):
right, totally not how it'spresented the truth.
But they said we had somethingand we don't want that to be
drug up because it'll createblack PR and bad press for
Scientology.
And so, just like that, mycareer aspirations in politics,
maybe for the best, but maybenot.
I'm not a quitter.
So that bothered me.
I gave it up and 2019 rolledaround and I just said this

(01:02:54):
isn't working with my marriage.
So I got divorced.
They didn't want me to getdivorced.
They flat out told me youcannot get divorced and I said
show me the reference.
By then I started being likeshow me the reference.
Now I'm in, I'm seven years,eight years in Scientology.
I'm like show me the reference.
Like you know, I got a littlemore training.
I've got more of my status here.
I'm like who are you talking to?
You know like I'm Joy Vila andI had this bit of pride and the

(01:03:16):
status on who I am.
And I was also like how comenobody's defending me online?
I'm finding all these Twittertrolls, all these Tony Ortega's
out there writing articles aboutme.
Of course, now they're all myfriends, right?
Of course, Now, they're all myfriends right, of course.
But at the time I was like I'mgetting attacked and they don't
care.
Os is like, you know better youthan us, kind of thing.

(01:03:37):
And they but they did.
They didn't like that thearticles would come out about me
.
I'd get pulled in another seccheck Cause.
They're like well, what haveyou done?
Why is this leaking?
Why is this going?

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I'm like blaming blaming you for someone even
talking about you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Literally, and I started getting really upset and
I thought, man, what is goingon?
I really didn't like OSA.
I really didn't, obviously, Ireally don't like them, because
they were always trying to stopme.
They said every time you do aninterview, you have to submit
that press to us first, because,like we do with Tom right, and

(01:04:11):
they all call him TC right inthere and like with TC, um, you
know, we're going to make surethat that you don't.
They said, like for my good, sothat the that the person isn't
like anti-Scientologist andstarts asking about you know OT
levels or something Right, andlike and tries to scare you and
whatever make you sick.
And so I was like oh, okay, itsounds good.

(01:04:32):
I didn't do it, Cause I'm likeare you kidding me?
Like a red carpet event istomorrow.
I don't have the 24 hour, liketwo week process that says
submit, cause I tried it.
They'd never get back to me.
I'm like, no, these people arenot working for me.
I was like, oh, so he's got aproblem.
I couldn't say that, though,because in the snitch culture of
Scientology, obviously aknowledge report would be
written about me, and there wasalways knowledge, reports

(01:04:53):
written about me from whatever Iwore to the things Cause I
would joke and I would you know.
Oh, she's joking to grade.
I might always have a sense ofhumor about things.
And I did say to one time I'msure there was reports about me
after I did cause resurgence Isaid you know, maybe we are a
cult.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I mean, in all fairness, look at the definition
of a cult in a dictionary.
It's pretty dead on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
It's dead on.
The cost of surges is theweirdest crap that you ever have
seen.
And you pay.
Is it 5,000, 2,500?
It's cheap, so people do it alot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I think I've heard now it's 5,000 and you run
around.
You run around a pole.
It's a genius from a space.
Oh my gosh, it's based on theit's OT objectives.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Objective processing is to look outside yourself and
receive this amazing wins.
And they the way they sell this, this ball of crap, is like
it's the best thing ever.
They're such used car salesmenin Scientology.
I did that.
That is the.
That's the best thing ever.
I mean, they're such used carsalesmen in Scientology.
I did that.
That is the.
That is something that wastruly disappointing when I did
that, that was in 2013.
I was like, oh no, this ain'tfor me.
And people are like I love it.
I was doing it for 30 days.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
And how many hours a day?
How many hours a day did yourun around?
Five, five, okay, yeah, thereyou go, people at the base.
There were people that would doit five hours, but there were
also people, when they weredoing it full time, that would
do 12 hours a day.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
They didn't allow us to do it 12 hours a day.
Yeah, you're just getting yoursteps in.
There's nothing spiritual aboutthat, that is.
It is so bizarre.
It's a black room and you justwalk around a pole and you have
to keep your eye on the pole thewhole time, right?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
yeah, I read the the advices, like the original
writings about it, and it was um.
Hubbard's explanation was thatit's from you know, holtrek,
like I said, where, um, youwould go and find a rock in the
middle of space and just circlearound it.
And it's on the premise ofconfusion and the stable datum,

(01:07:02):
which again is a Scientologybelief, that if you're, if
you've got mass chaos andconfusion, you pick one thing
and fix and hold all yourattention on that and the
confusion will disperse.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Yeah, sounds a little bit like what's that called
when you have something in frontof you and you stare at it.
Hypnosis Sounds like hypnosis,completely.
That's the definition ofhypnosis Just stare at this one
thing and don't look at anythingelse and focus on it, all your
focus on this thing.
That's hypnosis.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Yeah, same as same as TR.
Zero the communication.
Fix on that person.
Don't look away, don't blink,don't do anything, don't fidget,
don't.
Uh, you know, don't show any,any emotion, emotion and to have
kids doing this stuff.
It's completely horrendousabuse stuff.

(01:07:56):
It's completely horrendousabuse, Completely.
And so, since we're getting tothe end here of our allotted
time for today and I want to berespectful of your time- I can
talk a little bit more, if youwant.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Okay awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
So how do I talk?
A lot, claire, I'm sorry.
It's all good.
I've been looking forward tothis and I really appreciate you
sharing your story, and we haveobviously a lot of common
shared experiences, even thoughyou were in Scientology after me
.
But so what did your exitprocess look like, let's say,

(01:08:24):
and how did you get through that?
What was that like for you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, my exit process started when, in 2020, there
was this thing I don't know ifyou remember this something
called COVID-19.
Did you hear that?
Of course, I don't even knowwhat it was about, but you know
something.
So that was when the pressurewas applied to all
Scientologists you betterfreaking do your bridge, because
the government is about to takeit away from you.

(01:08:50):
I kid you not.
That was every time DavidMiscavige got on there because
he was doing all the graduationsat Flag before that and we're
like, oh, cob is doing the Flaggraduations and so he would give
you all this.
And then it was COVID.
It was immediate lockdown.
I was actually traveling duringthe time and then I was in Los
Angeles and I went into the LosAngeles bubble to stay at CC

(01:09:14):
celebrity center and then Iforgot why, but it was.
I was crying.
It was so disturbing the typeof auditing I was receiving.
It was very dehumanizing.
That was when things startedchanging.
They were like I don't knowwhat was going on, but there was
a staff member named Rebeccathere.
She was my ethics officer atthe time.

(01:09:35):
The ethics officer has all thepower to write you up and report
you.
If you're not, you don't getauditing.
Auditing is supposed to be apleasure thing that you get to
receive right.
It's not a right, even thoughbecause you get to finally talk,
even though the auditing can bequite abusive and harmful, you
feel like you're getting somework, because you're like I'm
talking out my traumas, I'mgetting some hope.
And then you get the high.
We're all drug addicts inScientology.

(01:09:56):
You're chasing that high.
You're chasing that relief,because the pressure is so hard
that any sort of normalcy feelslike pleasure.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Ineed this.
I was post-divorce.
It was like everything was, andthen, and then COVID,
everything was heaping down onme and they're like, if you
don't get right, you're mid yourOT preps.
That's what's wrong with you,cause I was mid my OT preps and

(01:10:18):
I was already on my trainingjourney.
I was a class three auditor atthat time where I was a class
two auditor, and so they're likeyou need to go.
And then a friend talked me intogoing to South Africa.
So I went to South Africa.
I studied there.
That was actually the best timeI ever had in Scientology
because they're very more freethere and I studied at the class
five org, not the AO bubble andI met people there friends

(01:10:40):
there that I still have todaywho've left Scientology praise
God, awesome, third generation.
I'm not going to say who it is,but I do have a friend from my
time out there who is a thirdgeneration Scientologist who
left Scientology.
Like you, was in since theywere a child and was in the

(01:11:01):
Searics since they were 12.
So it is unbelievable what thisperson went through and we
became best, best, really goodfriends and they came out later,
like I came out later.
So I'm, I'm in, you know, andI'm I'm addicted to traveling
because I love it.

(01:11:22):
I love to travel, I love newexperiences.
So I thought, well, if I'mhaving scientology overseas, I
have all these friends, it'samazing.
And then it didn't quite workout in south africa.
And then saint was like we wantyou to train here, this is
where you'll go to, you need togo to get this AO.
I mean, I was just likereaching for anything, cause I
kept getting these weird likeethics things, like you have to

(01:11:42):
finish this, you have to do now,you have to do a keeping
Scientology working course andI'd go wait what?
No, I need to do that and itwas always.
It became such a fight.
That was when I knew somethingwas up and I know Scientology
was freaking out during COVIDbecause they lost.
Probably half the people inScientology walked away because
the way they handled it was sobad, claire.
They made us watch tons ofvideos, wear masks, gloves to go

(01:12:05):
in session.
We had to get COVID testsconstantly.
We had to live in a bubblewhere you can't go into the town
for months and months andmonths.
They had to ship people in.
We were living like Searigmembers as paying clients of
Scientology, and we were At StHill in England.
Yes, I mean, we were at St Hill, but we were living on the

(01:12:26):
outskirts.
You can't live in St Hillunless you're Searig members.
You know how it is.
They're shipped out somewhereelse.
But this was when I was onlines at St Hill and it was such
torture it.
This was the worst experience Ihad because the people there
were so beautiful.
I love the St Hillers and theelderly people that work there.
They had a lot of elderlypeople but it was so broken

(01:12:47):
because that was when theypushed me to do 12 hours a day,
six days a week.
I noticed abuse of time on otherindividuals.
People were breaking down.
It was lonely, was isolated.
I started getting depressed.
I finished my class five, I gotinto my class for internship.
It was never enough.
Now I trained there with TomCruise's daughter, bella Cruz.

(01:13:07):
She was also class five and shewas on her class five
internship and we were in therein that basement training 12
hours a day and you're just like.
You just want it to end.
You just want to get through itso you can go OT.
But yet you're also lookingforward to taking someone in
session because it's your relief, you can help someone, you can
listen to their problems.

(01:13:29):
Everything I did it wasn't goodenough and that for me it
finally broke me.
When there was there was somuch attack on my.
I was depressed, I was.
I was going broke.
I was racking up credit carddebt because I wasn't working
during this time.
You can't sing and speak.
All the.
I lost $30,000 worth ofpotential gigs.
They all canceled boom, boom,boom during COVID because there

(01:13:49):
was no venues to sing or performand I was living off the little
bit of some money coming frommy music sales and other
projects and I would do, youknow, had a few things.
But I became so hyper, fixatedand depressed because they said
if you just go full blast on thebridge, it'll solve all your
problems.
So that's what I did.
It became torturous.

(01:14:11):
I was sitting in my room and itcould only be places you could
stay at.
You could rent rooms or youcould stay in the hotel that was
only sanctioned by Scientology.
It had to be the Scientologistsand they would rack up the
prices on these rooms.
I tell you that much likeunfair prices and it was like oh
, ot is running these placesthat were approved but it's such
a racket and they're likecrappy accommodations compared

(01:14:34):
to what you're paying.
And they knew all of theseforeign people would be coming
from poor countries.
I'm at least had some money inmy pocket, even though it was
going fast because of intensiveafter intensive and then
training and training.
But there was people comingfrom really poor countries that
this was the nearest org to themand then, once they're there,
they have to leave their family,stay in the bubble.

(01:14:54):
You can't leave.
If you leave, you have to comeback and do a two week
quarantine at your own expenseit was.
You couldn't go into town.
None of the Sea Org members atat the base were allowed to go
into town for two years In factmaybe longer, I think.
Now they've just now been ableto go out, so they haven't left
the base.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Yeah, Side side comment, by the way, my uncle is
still works at St Hill as a SeaOrg member.
Who's your uncle?
Frank O'Sullivan.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Oh my gosh.
I know, frank, are you serious?

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
He's what's his post?
I don't, I don't know, I know,I mean I the last time I saw him
was 2011, at my grandmother'sfuneral in england, um, and, of
course, even then he wouldn'ttalk to me or look in the eye
becauses He'd been on the.

(01:15:59):
He was on the rehabilitationproject force for 10 years, oh
my God, and he escaped and mymom tracked him down and
snitched on him and also broughthim back.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
That's the culture Scientology creates.
Correct Snitch on them andbecause they're told, you're
told that's for their own good,right, and that is a dangerous
world out there Like people likeme and you are now in this
dangerous swamp world wherethey're all drugs and crazy and,
like every big psychs, bigpharma is, you know, tearing at

(01:16:33):
our faces and they tell you theoutside world doesn't get it.
And so I believed all that hype.
Even though I traveled theworld and saw outside people, I
kept myself in a bubble.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Right, and it's interesting that they converted
COVID just to forward thatnarrative and make it even more
controlling.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
They did, and that was when I could see the control
aspects.
They they pushed way too tight.
It was so I mean, it was sotight and I'm like what happened
to?
I'm a celebrity and I'm anartist and like they didn't care
.
You have to, you have to showup and you I acted as if I was a
Sea Org member.
But I'm paying.

(01:17:11):
I'm not a Sea Org member, butthey ran us on Sea Org schedule
that you have to be here from9am to 9pm because you have to
finish this and because theyalso use the excuse of you're on
a limited time with you know,with the, with the, not green
card.
But what's the immigrationright?
You get six months at a time.
We have to leave, come back, doanother two-week quarantine.

(01:17:33):
So they're using all thispressure.
They amp the pressure.
The pressure has always beenintense in Scientology, but this
broke me.
This absolutely broke me and Iwas depressed.
I was lonely.
I didn't talk to anybody elsebut Scientologists.
I felt like nobody would loveme or know me or care about me

(01:17:55):
if they knew how badly I wasdoing.
So I pretended like I was okay.
I only told a few Sea Orgmembers how I was feeling and
they laughed it off.
They said oh, you love people.
You're fine, joy, not you.
You're good.
Just get out of your headExterior eyes, just go look at
some stuff and I'll give you a.
I'll give you a locational,you're fine.
Like everything was brushed offand this death feeling, this

(01:18:19):
wanting to die, it got worse andworse and worse.
I was.
I was strung out on caffeineLike I was skinny and I was just
like I think I'm going to makeit.
I'm going to make it Cause Ithought at the end it's going to
be worth it.
I'm going to sacrificeeverything my health, my time,
my energy, my money, my family,whatever.
I didn't date.
I didn't go out.
I just did Scientology becausethey promised me that once I got

(01:18:40):
on my OT levels it'd all beworth it.
And I saw their peoplesacrifice on their OT levels and
if I don't do it now, it'sgoing to be taken away from us
and they would scare us everyweek with a new fear unlocked.
Until at that moment I just Ireached out to a staff member
and I confessed everything.
I'm depressed, I feel horrible.

(01:19:04):
I was also scared to say Icouldn't say like I heard voices
telling me to die.
I did at that time.
It was so oppressive anddemonic because I'm like am I
having a psychotic break?
Am I like my mom?
I was so scared.
I'm like am I, am I the crazyone?
I always thought it was me.
But if I say I have anxiety, Ihave depression, I feel lost.

(01:19:26):
I'm not allowed to say thatthat's.
I'm a rock slammer, I'm an I.
You know I.
I'm the problem, there'ssomething wrong with me.
And rock slam is a term inScientology like you have this
weird read on an e-meter thatshows that you're basically a
criminal, right, right?
I was afraid.
I was like, oh my gosh, I don'twant to rock slam, I don't want
to be seen as an SP.

(01:19:46):
That was when I was afraid and Ican't say anything because if
they write me up, I'm already inso much ethics trouble.
I was in ethics trouble for noreason.
By the way, in 2020, before Ileft to the UK, I had tweeted
does anyone know a goodChristian church in Nashville?
I have a speaking gig.
I'm out there.
I'm on a book tour.
I got called in for an ethicscycle.
That says why did you tweetthat?
It looks like you're trying toleave Scientology.

(01:20:08):
Wow, and that scared the crapout of me.
I like my blood ran coldbecause, in a way, I was
reaching for Christianity, I wasreaching for God, I was
reaching for the religion of myold time, right, my comfort for
people.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
Allegedly.
If they do accept people of allreligions, what's the problem
with that Exactly, and they can.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
I parroted those, those same things.
You can be a ChristianScientologist, but when it came
down to it, you cannot be, youcan't be, it's impossible.
They make it impossible, forit's everything they, they do
and they tell you and they, theycan't.
They don't, they, they can'ttell you outright, but they do
in their actions.
And there was people whoconfessed to me and tried to
warn me, who were Christians,who said listen, joy, I know

(01:20:55):
you're a Scientologist, I'm aScientologist too, but they're
going to come down on you onChristianity.
And I didn't hear it.
I was like, no, they, no,there's no way until they did.
And so they said you can'ttweet like that.
You represent Scientology,you're a Scientologist celebrity
.
Keep it shut.
I said I thought I can be aChristian.
Of course you can be, but youhave to remember this is social
media.
It can be interpreted by badpeople in the wrong way, right?

(01:21:18):
They put all of this otherguilt trip around it, so I guess
they're right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
And frankly I'm surprised that they even said
you can be, because at least inthe years that I was there, that
would have been consideredother practices, which is, of
course, severely frowned upon.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
I think they had to open their ranks probably
because they're losing peopleand you and you have.
You have values that you knowtreat other people kindness.
That can align.
They must've made some sort ofPR decision at some point from
the time when I joined thatwe're going to align with
Christian churches Because when.
I came in I said, well, do youguys do any work with Christian

(01:21:57):
churches?
And they said, oh yeah, we workwith the South African church
here.
And they told me this when Iwas in Celebrity Center when I
was 22,.
They told me we do church, wedo interfaith, and they did.
And I was involved with a lotof that stuff in DC.
So they must've made it a planto filter in, because how are
you going to grow?
You got to have Christians innow and you got to say, oh, you

(01:22:18):
can be Catholic, you can beChristian.
There's no way.
How can you hear about Zinu andpast lives?
Even none of that is in theBible.
None of that.
You don't even worship God.
There's all you can wear.
Eighth dynamic can wait.
Eighth dynamic it's.
You don't.
As a Scientologist, you don'teven have a concept of an eighth
dynamic.
They just put that on there foryou for the tour, right?
You're not actually encouraged.
Okay, now we're all going to goand have have time to meditate

(01:22:39):
on our first dynamic, our eighthdynamic.
There's no time that you get toconnect with a loving creator.
There is nothing like that.
There is no religion practice.
There is do, do, do, buy, buy,buy, do more, buy more, snap pop
, let's go, let's go.
It's like a military, it's likeNorth Korea.
It has nothing to do withreligion or connection.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
You make a good point .
I'd never considered the eighthdynamic the God dynamic.
I'd never considered it just atoken gesture from Hubbard to
just throw in a splash of, youknow, religion for the eye.
Nobody.
Nobody does anything on theeighth dynamic, no we don't have
any eighth dynamic processes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
I was like is that OT eight?
Is that, when we get to findout the eighth dynamic, like,
when are we going to do thiseighth dynamic?
And I came in going oh, Ialready know the eighth dynamic.
That's my God, my creator, butit's no.
Scientologists are encouraged tohave a faith or practice faith
or any reflection or experienceof eighth dynamic on the public.
They want that you can be anMuslim, you can be a this.

(01:23:44):
When, where, how?
When I tried to be, theystopped me.
They tried to stop me and Iused to get upset and they'd say
, well, are you praying whileyou're auditing?
And I would say, listen, I'mgoing to pray, I'm a Christian

(01:24:04):
and that's that.
I don't pray in session and Ijust I started really it got so
bad.
I started just being like Idon't want to hear this, this is
not okay.
I'm paying here, I want this.
And I started demanding morehelp, change my auditor, all
this stuff.
And it led down to wherenothing fixed anything.
I'm sick.
I mentally, emotionally, I feelI fell off my bike.
I was riding a bike and I fellon and I still went in session.
I was bloody, black and blueand they're like, yeah, go in

(01:24:26):
session, you can't be late, likeit was so abused.
I also abused myself in thatsystem because I thought I just
have to prove to them I can doit.
I just have to complete thisnext action and then I can rest,
then I can have a break.
And you know more than anyonethis kind of mentality.
They push on you.
Yeah, and in my darkest time,when I I talked to one person, I

(01:24:48):
trusted her and I said so youremember.
And I said I'm feeling this waywhat can I do?
What references do you have?
What, what can?
What did L Ron Hubbard sayabout this?
Like, give me, I need some helpplease, I'm being vulnerable.
And she just said, well, justgo watch a funny movie.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Wow, haven't heard that one before.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Yeah, because she had given me references and she
could see.
And I said listen, I'm at theend of my rope, I just got you
know what can I do?
And they're like well, she saidwatch a funny movie, don't
think about it, and come backand take your PC in session
tomorrow.
I know it must have broken herheart because I know that you
know she's a person of goodwill.
There are good people in therethat are of goodwill, that are

(01:25:29):
just stuck in that system andthey want she wanted to help me.
I mean I talked to her forhours like free counseling
sessions, like just like, oh,I'd vent because that was the
only person I could talk to, butat the end she had no tools,
she had no help.
Right, thousand $2 million in15 years.
I was like, what am I doing?
And I and I prayed, I saidJesus, help me.

(01:25:50):
Finally I called out to Jesus.
I said help me, I don't knowwhat I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
Yeah, I'm so glad you did Joy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
Thank you.
He brought me out and that wastwo years ago.
I was in St Hill crying out.
He brought me out of it and Iended up moving to a place where
there's very little Scientologyand the Lord said leave
Scientology.
I heard the voice of God tellme that I started going into
counseling, deliverance ministryBible, back into a Christian

(01:26:23):
faith, finally confronting.
Wait a second, let me GoogleScientology and I was sweating.
It was very painful to look itup and when I did, I found out
everything and God told me writea book about it, which I wrote
my book From Scientology toChrist the Escape.
They Never Wanted Me to Make.
It's available for pre-order onAmazon.
I ordered it, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Yes, of course, and I will, of course, link to your
social media, your YouTubechannel and the pre-order page
of your book in the videodescription, and I would love to
, once your book comes out andI've read it, I'd love to have
you back on to deep dive intothe book.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
Oh, that would be awesome Because I talk about
this whole journey and I talkabout the witchcraft aspect,
which needs to be seen that LRon Hubbard was a Luciferian he
talks about he's Lucifer, he'sgoing to prevent the second
coming of Jesus and the devil'sactually the good guy and Jesus
was an implant and then he's analien.
I'm like, if Christians knew ofcourse you can't be a Christian

(01:27:24):
and a Scientologist Ifnon-Christians knew that it's
just it infuriates me, I willtell.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Tell you, though, that I know on good authority
that um high up people in theVatican are definitely aware,
and in fact I know that umthere's a copy of a number of
former Scientologist memoirs inthe Vatican library, including
Mark's book blown for good,jenna Jenna Miscavige's book in

(01:27:51):
the library, wow, wow.
Wow, yep, and I think you'reright.
It's absolutely important thatpeople be educated on the
deceptive practices ofScientology, how they do abuse
people's beliefs and they lurepeople in under false pretenses,
and that's really important toeducate people about that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's become part of my life'swork and I just say, god, if you
want to bring the things backto me that I lost during
Scientology years, it's up toyou.
But now I take my medicine, Iread the Bible, I pray, I
worship.
I also lower myself because Iwas my own God during
Scientology years.
I knew better and thenarcissistic feeding, the abuse

(01:28:34):
that were, the love bombing that, oh yeah, I could become my own
God.
I can become my own creator.
I can create this.
It's so fed into my pride andmy wounds at the same time.
And God has completely healedthat.
I don't have depression, Idon't have anxiety.
I don't have those problemsanymore.
I wake up each day and I'm like, yeah, I go through life, but

(01:28:55):
the healing happens so quicklyand so incredibly that life is
so much better, like even thebest day in Scientology, like
I'd take the worst day out anyday, right, completely Right.
Like every day is a great day.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
Completely.
Every day is a great day.
Freedom does that to you, andI'm just in concluding thank you
so much for your time andsharing your story and
everything that you've beenthrough and are going through,
and I'm just very grateful thatyou've decided to lend your
voice to exposing Scientologyand anything I can do to help.

(01:29:33):
I'm here, too, so I appreciateyour time, joy.
It's been absolutely wonderfuland I will look forward to our
next conversation.
Yes, awesome, all right, bye,bye.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu Xenu is myhomeboy and BFG branded mouse
pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts ofother stuff in there that helps
us to bring you new content ona regular basis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book Blown for Good Behind

(01:30:11):
the Iron Curtain of Scientologyin hardback, kindle and audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast and you can get that on
Apple, spotify or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you

(01:30:32):
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

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Hollywood Dreams and Celebrity Center Schemes - Scientology Stories #55 with Joy Villa

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Hollywood Dreams and Celebrity Center Schemes - Scientology Stories #55 with Joy Villa