Inside Scientology’s Int Base Q&A - Scientology Secrets #17

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What does life at Scientology’s international headquarters actually look like when the cameras aren’t rolling? We open the map to Gold Base—also known as Int Base—and walk through who’s there, what they do, and why nearly everything meaningful flows through a single point of approval. From RTC and CMO International to Executive Strata and Golden Era Productions, we explain the org chart you never see in the glossy videos, and how AVC “authorizes, verifies, and corrects” plans that still live or die on David Miscavige’s word.

Listeners asked what Gold produces now, and the answer reveals a quiet shift: mass manufacturing moved to Los Angeles years ago, separating living quarters from labor hubs near Bridge Publications and Scientology Media Productions. We address the Hole and the trailers that remain, the surrounding demolitions, and why certain executives haven’t been publicly seen in years. Population wise, the Base peaked around the mid-1990s and has thinned to a fraction, with some older staff moved off-site. The day-to-day reality? Endless approvals for even small liberties, strict security, and drills for fire, floods, intruders, and “blows.” It’s a fortress mindset, built on control and unpredictability.

We also tackle the larger question: who sets policy when the founder is gone? Officially, “Hubbard wrote it all.” Practically, contradictions get resolved by canceling non-Hubbard texts and narrowing authority until it sits in one office. We share how paper boards and undated resignations create distance on paper while preserving command in practice. And while PR boasts of worldwide expansion, we hear from on-the-ground sources that some Ideal Orgs can’t keep the utilities on. It’s a telling gap between message and maintenance.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:12):
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
Welcome to another episode ofBlown for Good, Scientology
Exposed.
I'm Mark Headley.
I'm joined here by my lovelywife, Claire.

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
Um, today we're gonna do something um a little
different than what we've beendoing.
We're gonna do a QA on theinternational Scientology base.
So last week we did a videowhere we took you through the
entire property and uh we didthe uh we showed the Golden Air
Productions promotionalpropaganda video, and then we

(00:48):
should did a flyover and weshowed the map of the base.
It's in my book, Blown for GoodBehind the Iron Curtain of
Scientology.
And um we talked about it a lot,but then we didn't um have a lot
of time to answer questions.
So that we saw that there was alot of people that had
questions.
So um so if you want to jam intothe uh bloopity bloop in the
comments down there, uh questionabout the base.

(01:12):
It helps if you say questionbefore the comment, so we can
just pick those out.
But um, but while we do that,while you guys do that, we're
gonna go and um we like to justkind of uh spend a few minutes
welcoming people who are tuningin and where they're tuning in
from.
Um, and then once we have likeenough people in the stream,

(01:33):
then we'll uh we'll start.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yep, sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
Awesome.
So here you go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
All righty.
Love it.
Cool, be back in 29 minutes.
Here we are now.
Um, all right, Jeremy, hellofrom Florida, nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
That was somebody who posted that before the live
screen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
Yes, of course.
Carla, hello from England, nice.
Sherry Woot, hello, hello fromMoorhead, Minnesota, nice Cher
2909, hello from theNetherlands.
Sherry Lynn, hello from WasagaBeach, Ontario, Canada.
Nice.
Ollie, hi all from England.

(02:16):
Sweet.
Yeah, we're at a different timethis week to allow for this.

SPEAKER_03 (02:21):
Same Ollie.
Oh, they posted twice.

SPEAKER_00 (02:23):
Yeah, there you go.
Hi all from England.
Cher, I watched the MormonStories podcast episodes in two
days and absolutely loved it.
The way you faced everythingwith strength, grace, and
resilience is inspiring.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
Yes, thank you for watching.
That was a marathon 11 hours,part one and part two.

SPEAKER_03 (02:44):
That was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Harvey said hello from Birmingham.
Everyone wants home to the worstScientology org in the whole
world, as declared by fake NavyDavy himself.
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (02:56):
Oh, yeah, that's true.
David Miscavige, every once in awhile, will uh say you have
he'll tell that org, you're theworst org in the world.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Uh Trevanon, good evening from the Netherlands.
Nice.
Terry, hi from Pittsburgh,awesome.
Betsy Sue, greetings fromCameron, North Carolina.
Anita, hi from the Netherlands.
We love our Netherlands, folks.
Ev forklift oh, Ev Forklift.
Good morning from SoCal.

SPEAKER_03 (03:28):
E.
V.
Forklift.

SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
Okay, E.
V.
Forklift.
Trevinon again.
Thanks for a very EU-friendlytime.
Yes, right?
Yes.
We had to make some adjustmentsfor the Broncos game.

SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
Necessary trouble.
Hello from Montana.
AGT Mom, North Carolina here.
Awesome.
List one Rock Slammer.
Hi from Coldwater, Florida.
There you go.
Nice.
Pecker Decker.
Hello from London.

SPEAKER_03 (03:54):
Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
Okay, good.
Um, let me figure out how totake that off of there.
Uh perfect.
So um, so I guess what what wecovered um in last week's video,
we covered um uh one base inCalifornia that Scientology has,
and that base is called the Intbase, the Gold Base, um Int

(04:21):
Gold.

SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Yep.
Over the rainbow.
It used to be referred to aswhatever.

SPEAKER_03 (04:26):
But they also call it uh international management,
yeah, is also what it's called.
It's called a many things, butit's basically where Religious
Technology Center, that's the orScientology organization that
David Miscavige is the head of.
It's basically just hisorganization.
Um, he's the head of everythingelse anyway.
So, but that's his personal.

(04:47):
He's chairman of the board RTC,Religious Technology Center.
So that's located there.
International management'slocated there.
Um, the executive strata, whichis EDN, senior CSN.
You know, they have all theinternational uh heads of all
the different kind of variousparts of Scientology.

(05:09):
And then you have Golden EraProductions, you have um the
compilations unit that compilesall of L.
Ron Hubbard's original writingsand works and figures out where
they go and what what time theycame from and all this good
stuff.
And then you have what else isthere that I haven't talked
about?
Um, CMO International.

(05:30):
So that comprises all of thepeople that are in the
Commodore's Messengerorganization internationally.
And so they run all of the othercontinental Commodore's
messengers, CMOs.

SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
And then um and they also um write all the programs
and the um basically all thedirection that all the
individual organizations need togo into.
And for pretty much the timethat we were there and from
night the early 1990s to theearly 2005 2005, basically, um

(06:10):
management wasn't doing much ofanything.

SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (06:13):
And anything they were doing, it had to go through
David Miscavige to be approved.
And basically he had to say,yes, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Yeah.
And he didn't, yeah.
If anyone did anything withoutit being approved, there was
hell to pay, which happenedmany, many times.
Many times.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (06:30):
But he would essentially say, in order for
this to get approved, you haveto send it up to RTC, and it has
to get approved by RTC.

SPEAKER_02 (06:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
And and there's a division, or is it a division or
a department or a section of RTCcalled AVC, author
authorization, verification, andcorrection.
So they send a program orsomething up to RTC, to AVC in
RTC, and then they have tobasically check that program or

(07:00):
or plan or strategy or whateveragainst L1 Hubbard policies.
And if they find that it is notin line with L1 Hubbard
policies, then they disapproveit.
And then that person, that's theauthorization and verification
part.
If it's wrong, then they thenthat person is submitted to the
correction part.

SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Now, there were even times when a program would get
okay, it would get written bysomebody in management, and then
they would send it to AVC, andAVC would say that's okay.
And then David Miscavige wouldfind out about it, and he would
say, No.
And then it wasn't because itwasn't per Paul, a Paul, it was
because it was against whatsomething that he was trying to

(07:44):
do.
Yeah.
He didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
Yeah, and then everybody along who anyone who
had anything to do withapproving that would then be in
trouble from from AVC, theperson who the final signature,
every single signature on thatum submission was in deep
trouble.

SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
Yeah, here, do like this.
No, put the mic so it's I saiddo like this, and she just went.

SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
I did.

SPEAKER_03 (08:11):
You know, make the mic so it's like that.

SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
There you go.
I got it.
It's too early.
All right.
Um, yeah, well, and also I wasgonna um talk about I saw people
asking last week, what does thatproperty look like now?
Because a lot has changed fromwhat we showed last week with SP
moving to Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
No, that that that drone video that we showed is
six months old.

SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
Right, I know, but I'm talking about the
promotional video.
Oh, what you mean like like whatgoes on there now?
Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
Okay, that's a good point.
Well you'll notice in that videothey didn't show manufacturing
anything.
They didn't show packaging andCDs and DVDs, they didn't show
any of the physical items.
So the things that they showedin that video, those are the

(09:08):
things they're still translatingstuff, I think.
They're still I mean, maybe,maybe they're not.
We haven't we haven't heard wedidn't we have to ask somebody
that we know that has recentlyleft.
We have to ask them, do theystill do translations?

SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Yeah from where Catherine just um commented this
saying when all of the intmanagement ended up in the hole,
we stopped getting anysubmissions back for years.
No one in LA knew what was goingon.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
So that's a good point.
Thank you for that.
That's a good Catherine, a rose,whatever she's calling herself
these days.
Um so like I told you, ifthere's a program or some kind
of thing that a management istrying to get approved,
sometimes the continents aresaying, we want this.
And so the continents report upto Los Angeles, um, and that is

(10:00):
middle management in Los Angelesat the Hollywood Guarantee
Building in um HollywoodBoulevard in Hollywood,
California.
Um so they the the the guys atin LA, they get everything, and
then from those they send thingsto be approved up to int
management.

SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (10:20):
Then int management have to say, yeah, we like this,
we like that, and they can sendthat stuff directly back to them
for a lot of things.
It doesn't concern that doesn'tcons that all of those things
don't concern David Miscavige.

SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (10:34):
Um anyway, so those guys in LA were sending things
to Int Management, but IntManagement wasn't writing
anything back.
And then usually there's apolicy in Scientology.
If you write a uh uh it's calleda dispatch, but if you write
like an email or you write amessage to somebody and say,
hey, I need this, this, this,then this, and this and this,

(10:55):
and it's their job to give youthat thing, they have to answer
within 24 hours, right?
24 to 48 hours.

SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
And it's all computerized.
This was pre-email, but they hada computerized system that ran
on a huge, giant, if you got andif there's any computer buffs
out there.
Um, Scientology's entirecomputer network was running on
these old DAX, VMS, um like uhjust giant Unix servers.

(11:26):
Like we're talking aboutcomputers that are as big as
refrigerators.
And even when smaller computerscame out, they still used those
all the way into the into the2000s, these really old, ancient
technology.
And they had microwaves,microwave transmitters and
receivers at all the big bases,so in the at least in

(11:47):
California.
So you would beam things fromone to another, and then that's
how they would get their secureuh communications around.
So almost all this stuff thatwas being sent from Los Angeles
was the was being sentelectronically to the AMP base.

SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (12:04):
And then they just would never answer.
Like Yeah, that's because theywere all off post by uh David
Miscavige.
Basically just declared them youguys are just total f ups.
You can't even answer things.
Don't no one, you can't send anycommunications out because
basically he was afraid anythingthey did would mess up his

(12:27):
plans.

SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Yeah, which I mean the the irony of the rat race
they were in was you're damnedif you do, you damned if you
don't.
No matter you, you should bedoing stuff, you should be
getting the orders done, butthen when you do, it's just all
messed up.

SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
Yeah, totally.
Okay, here's another good one.

SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
All right, hold on.
To get back to where I can seeit.
Okay.
Made Visual Co.
question Did Bridge Publicationstake over all the gold
manufacturing stuff you oversaw?
When did that transition happen?

SPEAKER_03 (13:01):
Well, they um in the mid-2000s or like I would say
late 2000s, going into the2010s.

SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Yeah, we remember I I remember hearing about it
around the time of our lawsuit,and it made sense because of the
things we were um talking about.

SPEAKER_03 (13:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
If you make something in thesame place that you live, you're
so if your workplace and yourliving space are in the same
facility or property, um, thatis a and and that and those
things that you're making arefor sale by your employer.

SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
Then that is a a great indicator indicator of
human trafficking.

SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
Particularly when they're also holding your
passports and things like that.
You know, that doesn't helpeither.

SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
Yes.
So the the videos and thebasically like the media
production end of it moved tothis place called Scientology
Media Productions.
And that's um in Hollywood, usedto be the old KCET uh broadcast
studios.
And the manufacturing part of itmoved to a giant warehouse um

(14:14):
near downtown Los Angeles, wherenear where Bridge Publications
was located.
They built an entirely newwarehouse, and I don't remember
what they called that.
Um, the building that it was inor the street that it was in,
um, I think it was calledSheila.
Sheila.
Somebody, anybody in thecomments who knows this, they
can they can pop in and tell us.

(14:35):
But um, but they took over allthe the the A V manufacturing,
so that all of that was beingdone in Los Angeles.
I'm not, I don't think that theaudiovisual manufacturing was it
may be under bridge corporately,but I don't remember.
I don't know what the structureof that was because that was
after we left.
But it wasn't at theinternational headquarters.

(14:57):
And anybody who worked um onsomething that was sold, it had
to be a separate facility thatthey would leave from and then
they would go home to LosAngeles area.
So there were buses and vansthat were shuttling these people
back and forth from that mainbig blue complex in Los Angeles.
It's a Scientology of thosebuildings that are kind of

(15:19):
arranged uh and I guess like ahalf octagon.
Um anyway.
I hope that answers yourquestion.

unknown (15:27):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (15:28):
Oh, here's another one from oh no, that's
Catherine's old one.
Okay, question.

SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
All right, Becky, question.
What would either of you say toMiscavige today if you had the
opportunity?
I would say stop hurting people,you know, stop stop whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
I would uh yeah, that's gonna make a big like it.

SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
It's not, but no one's ever, no one's ever uh
tried to uh locate his reasoningin the past.

SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
Aren't you full of joy today?
Geez.

SPEAKER_03 (16:01):
No one's ever tried to connect to the human side of
him before.

SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
No, I would say I know wasted wasted air.

SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
I would say, I would say, hey there, Davy boy.
What's up?
Hey, fake navy Davy.
Hey, I'd say, have you seen thedoll we made?
That's what I'd say.
I'd say, you could go to the SPshop.com.

SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
I'd say SP and proud of it.

SPEAKER_03 (16:25):
You could go to the SP shop and get one of these
fit, Davey, if you want.
Would that be awesome if he justhad one of these on his back
shelf?
That would be the best.

SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:33):
We'll send him.
We'll send him one.

SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
Yep.
There you go.
We'll send him an SP bracelet.

SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
Yeah.
Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (16:40):
All right.
Let's see here.
Harvey, question.
Mitch Brisker wrote in his bookthat the whole trailers were
demolished, but someone whovisited recently said the
trailers are still there.
If so, what purpose do theyserve now?

SPEAKER_03 (16:55):
Well, to be fair, um, the whole trailers are are
absolutely still there.

SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (17:01):
But I think the thing that Mitch was mentioning
that was demolished were all thehouses where people lived along
the golf course.
And also, there used to be aplace where security uh watch
people were held, and that wasthe old Gilman House area.
We should have had a map.
We should have brought the map.

(17:22):
Anyway, um, we still could.
We could just show the map.
Um, I'll figure that out.
But either way, um there weresome trailers around the OGH
house where people that wereunderwatch would stay in.
And there was old Gilman House,and there was a whole bunch of
other outbuilding structuresthat were up there and that were

(17:42):
very close to where the wholetrailers were.
And those all that stuff wasactually demolished.
And we showed that on lastweek's video.

SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Yeah.
Uh all right.
Sorry, I've got to keepswitching here.

SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
Why why do you have to keep just don't worry about
it.

SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
Question Are the top executives still working there
or do they now work from Flag?
Um, to from what we've heard,the only people there were some
executives moved to Flag.
Um, but key people like MarkYeager and Mark Ingberg,
Guillaume, all those peoplestill have not been um seen or

(18:19):
heard from.

SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (18:22):
Yeah, I mean they're still there.
And we've seen that um they'rethere.
We just don't always see the umI'm just trying to get the map
up here while we're doing this.
There we go.
Oh yeah, there you go.
Um sorry guys, I'm just tryingto jam this uh jam this together
here while we're uh I don't havea camera for you now.

(18:43):
Oh there it is.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
We're good.

SPEAKER_03 (18:46):
Perfect.
Okay, so yeah, that is the umand actually we could do it like
this too, so people could see ita little better.
Um so yeah, right, I don't knowif they can see, but they
probably can't see, but on theupper left-hand side of the map,
you see a little cluster ofbuildings.
And then right past that over tothe right, there's a big two big

(19:08):
empty sort of plots there.
That's where OGH and all thesethe swamp and all these other uh
structures were.
Okay.
Glad we sorted that out.

SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
Yeah, got that.

SPEAKER_03 (19:21):
Um then also so the top executives, the um they
don't work, they didn't sendthose people to Florida.
Most of those people are stilllocated at the international
headquarters.
They've just been put ontomenial tasks, and they're
basically not running anythingin Scientology.

SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
Yeah.
And but but David Miscavigealways had a few people in his
inner circle that would go withhim places to get his stuff done
separate to the managementexecutives, like the Tommy
Davises, the Angie Blinkenships.

SPEAKER_03 (19:59):
Penning Bandor.

SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Those people would go with him,and everyone, the other
executives like GuillaumeLeserve, would still be banished
in whatever version of the wholeis now at the property.

SPEAKER_03 (20:14):
Yes.
Yes.
Sorry, I was looking like agoon, just like trying to read.
I would change the setup alittle bit so that I have the
screen where I read the commentsis under the camera.
So I'm not looking down at mycomputer the entire stream.

SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
Yeah.
Question.
Here's a question.
Scientology structure is soobviously patterned after 1950s,
60s, corporate and governmentbureaucracy painfully asinine.
Did anybody at Int see throughthe banality?
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (20:41):
Well, they can't do anything about it because L.
Ron Hubbard wrote, he is the onewho created the structure of
Scientology.

SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
Yeah, you can't criticize structure based on
Hubbard policy because thatwould be uh that means you're
suppressive.

SPEAKER_03 (20:57):
Yes.
And also, it is pretty crazythat like there were you're
right, there was an insaneamount of bureaucracy.
So if you had if you wanted totake a day off and you were in
the grounds department, okay,and you said, Hey, I mowed, I
mowed some lawns this week.

(21:17):
I really took took care ofbusiness on the lawn mowing.
And if your stat if you look ifyou mowed more lawns than last
week, then your statistics wereup, then you could take a
one-day liberty.
And this is for a very brief NewYork second in the 1990s, and it
didn't if for a few years in the1990s, people were being able to

(21:38):
do it.

SPEAKER_00 (21:39):
And it was not every week, it was every other week.

SPEAKER_03 (21:41):
Yes, every other week, I think.

SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Didn't you have the the record of the longest
running I did having takenliberty every two weeks for like
three years from 90 to 93?
And then after that, it wasthere, they were kind of dry
spell after that.

SPEAKER_03 (21:58):
Just a 12-year dry spell.

SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
Yeah, I know.
I always felt it was so unfair.
You got to go take the day off,and I couldn't even go with you.

SPEAKER_03 (22:05):
Hey, it sucks to suck.
Uh anyway, we had um we, if youwere in the grounds department,
let's say you were the mu thefield, this the sports field
lawn mower or whatever it was,you would have to send the
proposal to you would have towrite a whole proposal to take
that day off.
It wasn't a given.
No, you had to ask for it if youqualified for it.

SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
And there was all these other factors that had to
be in place in order for you toYeah, and any one person of the
five people that had to approveit, they could easily just say,
Nope, can't go.

SPEAKER_03 (22:38):
Yeah, they would just say, No, uh, it's not we
have too much to do, you can'tgo.

SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (22:42):
Or you didn't replace yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
If you if you Or David Miscavige is on the
property, we can't be gal youcan't be gallivanting around him
at He can't run into you atWalmart if he's in town buying
something.
Anyway, he never went toWalmart.

SPEAKER_03 (22:56):
Hey.
I bet you he was there.
I bet you if we pulled thefootage, he was there once or
twice.

SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Maybe.
I kind of doubt it.

SPEAKER_03 (23:04):
Anyway, um, you'd have to submit your proposal to
your senior.
So let's say your senior was thethe the fields I see.
So you had a certain, you mowed,and he was in charge charge of
the fields, which would be thesprinklers and the grass and
everything.
Then he'd have to then it theywould have to go from you to

(23:25):
your senior, then from him tothe director of the grounds
report or the what do they callsection head?

SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
The department head.

SPEAKER_03 (23:33):
Department head.

SPEAKER_00 (23:33):
So it's above that.

SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
And then it had to go to the um the executive over
those divisions, which variedover the years, but they'd have
to go to the what was calledexecutive secretary.

SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (23:51):
And then that would have to go to the executive
director.

SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Yeah, or the commanding officer.

SPEAKER_03 (23:56):
The commanding officer.

SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
And so then it would also have to go to the ethics
department.
So they would say sometimes evensecurity had to sign off on it
too.
Just depending.

SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
Well, no, they would side-check it when it would get
to the top.

SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:10):
They would go through the phone.

SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
And then it would be held at the booth so that
anytime somebody was leaving theproperty, they security would
have to double check to makesure it had been approved.
Make sure that they were on theprocess.
Yes, exactly.
I wonder if anyone ever tried tofalsify, like just sign off,
like copy the signatures.

SPEAKER_03 (24:32):
Well, whose signatures?

SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
On the like the executives.
Did somebody ever just go copy,you know?

SPEAKER_03 (24:38):
Oh, somebody just forged.
You mean forgotten?
Forging a signature.

SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (24:44):
I'm like, copy the signature.
Why would you copy it?

SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:48):
Yeah.
Um, I don't know.
I never heard of that.
I didn't think that's kind oflike a wild idea.

SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
That is a wild idea.

SPEAKER_03 (24:54):
Like I would have never in a million years.

SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
I never thought of it while I was there.

SPEAKER_03 (25:00):
Because if you do that, that's basically you
cheated.
If you cheat there.

SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
If they catch you.

SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
You're not uh I never thought of it there.
I just thought of it just now.
I wonder if it ever happened.

SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
We got a wild one on our hands here, folks.

SPEAKER_00 (25:16):
I did think about try um stealing someone's
license plate and putting it onmy motorcycle so that I could
escape on my motorcycle, butthen I decided that was going to
be way too difficult.

SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
Yeah, that's the other thing.
Both Claire and I, we thought wewere gonna leave the property
and then take our motorcycles toKansas City.
This was in January of 2005.

SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Through the Rocky Mountains, how can we do that?
We're like, yeah, we'll justdrive.

SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
We'll just drive on our on our TW200 motorcycle that
goes 55 miles an hour with meand a suitcase.

SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah, I had even done done the math.
Like, okay, so I have$200.
How far will I get?
Like, how many miles can a tankof gas take you?
And how many miles is it fromhere?
Like the terrain didn't evenfactor into the equation.
Like we're talking about theRocky Mountain, go driving
through the Rocky Mountains on amotorcycle in January.

(26:08):
How could you?

SPEAKER_03 (26:09):
And I told my dad, oh, I'll just take my bike
there.
He was like, No, you won't.
And I was like, sure, it itit'll it goes like 5560, no
problem.
He's like, you're not gonna gothrough the Rockies on a TWT.
Oh god, we didn't try that.

SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (26:27):
Yeah.
We were a little bit we were weweren't a little we weren't wise
to the world uh that much.
No, we were not.
Oh yeah, there's this thing theyhave in Colorado in the Rockies
where you're gonna go throughthem.
That's called FNEL.

SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Yep, exactly.
I know.
We were like, what's that?
No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 (26:46):
Oh okay, here's another good one.
Okay, we got a lot of uh well,yeah, we have a lot of frequent
flyers.
They're just jamming questionsin.

SPEAKER_00 (26:52):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you, folks.
Uh, question Did Lafayette everactually set foot on the Int
base?
Thought experiment.
If Elron had been 30 yearsyounger, would he have made a
more deft transition to digitalage?
How dumb can you be?
Yeah, exactly.
Um, he was at the property verybriefly.

SPEAKER_03 (27:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
They I mean, he had a housethere before they built the
mansion, the same house that thehouse that was there, um, which
was, I want to say, built in thelate 70s, early 80s, I think,
that house.
Bonnie, it was called BonnieView, and that's where his cars
were, and that's where all hispersonal stuff was, so he could

(27:33):
stay there on the property.
The kind of wild thing is thatwhen he was on the run and the
property was being built andeverything, he lived in Hammett.
Hubbard lived in Hemet.

SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (27:45):
And um, and that was kind of a wild thing that he was
just in in Hemet while the basewas being built.
And but nobody, only a very,very handful, small handful of
people knew that he was inHammett.
There was lots of go-betweensand all this nonsense.
But um yeah, he uh Hubbard spentactually very, very little time

(28:08):
at that property over the, youknow, I think they bought it in
either the late, yeah, theybought it in the in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 (28:15):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (28:16):
And um, so he it was around at least for like a
decade before he passed away.
And um, and he's he didn't wannahe did not want to be there.
Uh just mainly because they theythought the feds were gonna grab
him.
They were gonna you know, yeah,scoop him up.

SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (28:34):
Oh, Jacob, thanks for that, Jacob.

SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
Oh, sorry, let me get back here.

SPEAKER_03 (28:39):
Jacob says there were a handful of fast food
places near the base, Denny's,Pandas Breast, Del Taco.
Were these there while you wereat the end base?
Did you ever get to eat offbase?
We did.
Um, and I know what you'retalking about.
The place where I got run offwhen I was trying to escape in
January of 2005, I got ran offthe road.

(29:00):
Right where that is, it wasbasically just open fields most
of the way from there all theway to um Ramona Expressway,
which is maybe like two or threemiles down the road.

SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Yeah, well, there was the San Yacinto College on
the the left.

SPEAKER_03 (29:16):
Yes, but there was no food and shopping centers and
Panda Express del Taco.

SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
That was not there.
There was the closest fast foodum place was Jack in the Box.

SPEAKER_03 (29:28):
Yes, and that was right near Ramona Expressway.

SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Right, exactly.
And the only way we would everbe able to go there is because
you had a motorcycle, orsometimes you were driving the
the van that drove RTC home.
That drove RTC home.
So then, you know, we we'vetalked about that.
Sometimes you go through thedrive thru.

SPEAKER_03 (29:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
We never we never went there to eat.
No.

SPEAKER_03 (29:49):
Yeah, but but this is the crazy thing.
That was your pay.

SPEAKER_00 (29:54):
Yes.
You could only afford like onetime once a week, you know,
especially.

SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
Was it if you had a pack of cigarettes and you had
this and you had a few otherlittle uh essentials that you
needed to get, yeah, and thenyou went to a meal at Jack in
the Box, you're wiped out.
That's your weekly allowance, isgone.
Yeah, so we would go, but itwasn't it was more like a maybe
a once a month or once every fewweeks or once every six months

(30:22):
kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 (30:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (30:23):
It wasn't like we were we weren't jamming out to
Jack in the Crack uh on a on thenightly.

SPEAKER_00 (30:29):
No.

SPEAKER_03 (30:29):
Um thank you for that, Jake.

SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Professor Ka Kahn said Hubbard was first going to
live in the old Gilman house.
Guess who had to pull fiberglassfrom the attic to ensure the
boss would not be exposed to it?
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (30:41):
Nice.
You know, I do like this aboutthis.
Since we've been doing thesevideos, we've been getting a lot
more ex imp based people.
I know that we don't know whothe who it is.

SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (30:51):
But they're saying things that it's 100% they were
there.
They or they know somebody whowas there and they're telling
us.

SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (31:00):
Love it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
Yeah, because there's a lot of history at that
property, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
Yes.
Okay, I'm gonna try to.
Here we go.
Trying to get different people'squestions here.

SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
Perfect.
Um, Daniel says question Are theformer top executives and Shelly
not allowed to go to bigScientology events anymore?
Yes, they are not.

SPEAKER_03 (31:21):
Um I don't think we've uh we've had people that
are telling us who's there atthese events.

SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
Yeah.
Catherine commented that sheused to work in she was seeing
them up until 2010.

SPEAKER_03 (31:33):
Yes, but we did we did see um a report that Diana
Hubbard was at an eventrecently.

SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Yeah, like 2019, I think somebody said at one of
the org openings.

SPEAKER_03 (31:47):
Yes, but this is another thing that Dave
Miscavige does.
He will shine one of thesepeople up, clean them up, get
their hair did, and drag themout to something, yeah, and make
and then say, hey, listen, ifyou want to do this again, you
better put on the show of yourlife and you better not mess
anything up.
And then they they'll be fine.

(32:08):
They'll do whatever they weresupposed to do.

SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
And then afterwards he'll be like, I can't believe
you told so-and-so, and thenhe'll throw them back somewhere.
And so he does drag people outevery once in a while.
I remember when we were at thebase and Mike Rinder and Mark
Yeager and all these guys, wewere we were out of the aeration
ponds, the septic ponds,shoveling the poo out and and um

(32:34):
bucket brigading it out.
And they, all four of them, gotgrabbed and they had to get
dressed up and go like do anevent or go do something in LA.
And then they came back.
And so I was like, when um Ithink it was Mike Rinder, Mike
Rinder, we had this is after wehad left.
And then um we were talkingabout something on the internet

(32:56):
or on a TV show or a film, andthey said, Well, Mike Rinder
said, I said, Mike Rinder's fullof shit.
No, no, literally, he wasdigging shit right before you
talked to him.
And he was and then he went andtalked to you.
Like they he would drag themout, David Miscavige would drag
them out for when he neededthem, and also it gave the
apparent that these guys werestill up to doing stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (33:17):
They ain't okay.
Thank you for that, Daniel.
Um, okay, here's a new one.

SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
All right, question What do you estimate is the
highest population at Int?
How many people do you thinklive there now?
Yeah, so we've talked about thisbefore.
I think the highest was likebetween eight to eight hundred
to a thousand.
I don't think it ever hit athousand, but was close to it in
the in the early nineties, um,up until ninety six.

SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Mid nineties, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
Well, yeah, ninety-six-97 is when they
stopped bringing new people.

SPEAKER_03 (33:54):
But also in 1996, um, around there in the mid-90s,
um, David Miscavige rounded up aton of people from the Int base,
and he they went out to allthese different continents to
run those continents.
So the Int base, even if it had,I want to say it was between it

(34:16):
was right around 900, I thinkwas the highest amount that at
one time where the people werethere because sometimes there
were people that were from theInt base, but they were sent
other places and then they justnever came back.

SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
Right.
And then also then factor in,you know, once or twice a week
someone's escaping and gettingout of there.
Sure.
So there's there's um, you know,there's that piece, then there's
the people that get sent to theart the rehabilitation project
force in Los Angeles.
So there was um and then no newpeople coming.

SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
Yeah, there's lots of people leaving, but not as
many people coming.
So it just dwindled and dwindledand dwindled.
And sometimes there were spikeswhere it would go way, way down.
Like yeah, uh David Miscavigekicked out a bunch of the I
think it was anybody who waslike 65 and older.
Yeah, unless you were like arock star seven-year-old that he
used all the time, you were longgone.
And they sent like 80 of thoseguys in in one day.

(35:10):
It was just like two buses,poof, they're done, they're out.

SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
Yeah, the offloads they called it.

SPEAKER_03 (35:15):
Yeah, so I would say 900, and now we've heard it's
like 200.

SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:21):
And that's a highest of the 200.
It might be 100 and change orwhatever.

SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Yeah, and and we're hearing of you know elderly
staff getting moved off toassisted living facilities and
so on and so forth.
So yeah.
All right.
Question Were there a lot offist fights at the base?
Seems like people were under alot of stress, and a nice fight
here and there would help.

(35:47):
Um, yeah, got dramatically worseover the years.
Not fist fights.
Uh I mean, in the whole, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (35:55):
Well, the let's just say, yeah there uh there's RTC,
there's exec strata, there's CMOInt, and then those are like the
above the line, those are on thenorth side.
Everything on the north side ofthe property was like management
and these kind of muckety mucks,CMO, the messengers, all that.

(36:16):
And then on the other side, onthe the west side of the
property, or the south side, wasthe um was Golden Air
Productions.
And there were fist fights allthe time in Golden Air
Productions.
They were the scrappers, theywere all the people that got
kicked out of all those otherhigher organizations.
We're all that was the that wasthe uh, I don't know what you

(36:39):
call it.
We were the lower classorganization, and there were
fights all the time.
I mean, it was kind of wild howmany fights there were in Golden
Air Productions.
Like in the grounds department,Spike Bush, he was beating up at
people once a week.

SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
So he was uh rough around the edges.

SPEAKER_03 (36:57):
There was a lot of there was a lot of fist fights
uh in the lower organizations.
I didn't see that many of thoseup in the exec strat.
But David Miscavige, he had freereign on anybody in any
organization.
Yeah, and he didn't he didn'talways like punch people.
He did, but he mainly pushed andkicked and shoved and threw

(37:20):
across the table, choked, threwup against the wall.

SPEAKER_00 (37:24):
And and he would have Marty Rathbun do his dirty
work for him.

SPEAKER_03 (37:29):
Yes.
Marty, Marty did cold cock meone time just while we were
standing in the room.

SPEAKER_00 (37:33):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (37:34):
The girl that was standing with him started
crying.

SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (37:37):
When he punched me, I'm like, what are you crying
for?
I'm the one who just took tookone straight to the dome here,
honey.

unknown (37:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
There was one time he he uh David Miscavige ordered
me to throw Greg Wilher upagainst a wall.
It was a little hard when he'slike a foot taller than me and
twice the weight of me.

SPEAKER_01 (37:55):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
I just kind of shoved him to so I could comply
with the order, but it wasridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 (38:01):
Yes.
I'm trying to see another onehere.
We've we've uh we've exhausteddifferent folks.
So I think I'm gonna have to uhhere we go.

SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
Oh, yeah.
Here I'll mark mark some moretoo.
Question for you both.
When you heard people wereescaping before 2005, let's say,
what did you tell yourself thatkept you in?
Thanks, guys.
Yeah.
For me, uh I just didn't knowhow we could ever get out and
make a life outside of thatworld.

(38:32):
So I I kept running track ofevery way that anyone had ever
escaped, kind of evensubliminally or not
subliminally, but like I didn'twrite it down or keep a list of
it.
You made a mental note of it.
Made mental note, thank you.
Exactly.
So that way when you escaped, Icould run through my mental
note, like, okay, which onewould work for me?

SPEAKER_03 (38:53):
Yeah.
The thing, the hard thing aboutthat too, is that whenever
somebody escapes um and youdon't see them anymore, they
start rumors about that person.
So like somebody will say tosomebody, um, somebody that
knows like a security or anethics person or maybe a high
executive will say, Oh, thatperson has gained 250 pounds and

(39:16):
they're homeless, and this andthey would make up stories about
people who left, and then thosestories would get spread
throughout the whisper web ofthe property.
Yeah, and then I I tell thisstory because they said that
about this one person.
Oh, he moved to Vegas and hegained a ton of weight, and he's
a loser, and he lives in a motelwith his brother, and da da da.

(39:39):
And then um, and then I ran intothis guy in Hollywood and I was
like, dude, you're lookinggreat.
He's like, What are you talkingabout?
And I go, You must have lostlike 200 pounds or something.
He's like, What are you talkingabout?
I go, Oh, I heard you were like300 pounds in a motel with your
brother.
He's like, No, that neverhappened.
And I was like, Oh, that'sweird.

(40:01):
He goes, No, I did buy a houseand my brother lived with me for
a little bit.
I was like, oh gosh.
So they do make it seem likeeveryone who leaves fails and is
just miserable.
So that's right.
Which is never which is usuallynot the case.
Okay, good stuff.
Okay, you got some more goodiesfor me here?
Oh, we got light, lots.

SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
Yep.
Uh Sabine says, question Do youknow if ice raids were conducted
in Scientology offices thatresulted in ESA members being
sent back to their home country?
No, nothing.

SPEAKER_03 (40:33):
There's no way that that's gonna happen.
They're they're they're athey're protected by the this
religious cloaking nonsensebecause they're a religion.
Um they're afforded uh moreliberties and more uh leeway,
like, oh no, we're not gonnamess with them.

SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
Yeah, Tony Ortega did an article about the number
of religious visas a couple ofmonths ago um that covered like
how many they the Scientologydefinitely had significantly
more than any other, or theywere in the the top mo um
bringing people here from othercountries.

SPEAKER_03 (41:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Um here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Here's a quick question If there was ever a
fire at Gold Base, is there away for everyone to evacuate?
Do they have fire drills there?
Those mountains are ripe for afire, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (41:20):
Well, in my book, there's an entire story.

SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Yeah, all the drills, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:25):
In my book covers this entire thing because they
do have drills.
They have a intruder drill, firedrill, earthquake drill,
security drill, which isdifferent from intruder, like if
the base perimeter has beencompromised or is uh or the the
security system is down or thelights are down, then they have
somebody they have people thatspread out all the way around

(41:46):
the property to to maintain theperimeter.

SPEAKER_01 (41:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:49):
Um, and they absolutely um we did fire drills
for some time.
There were periods um whereevery summer, every week we did
fire drills because there werealways fires out there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
We were doing fire drills every Saturday morning.
Um Jackson, Gary Moorhead wouldrun most of those, or then later
after he left, it was UveStukenbrock would run them, or
whoever was the security chiefwould run those.

SPEAKER_03 (42:18):
Not not Kirsten, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
But yeah, no, and it would literally be like fire
drills, like pull out the firehoses, hook them up, roll them
out, um, you know, fire up thewater, and then so that was one
drill, and and absolutely wewould they wouldn't evacuate the
property, but it would theproperty was so big that you
could just go and everyone wouldmuster up.
Yeah, exactly.

(42:40):
Yeah, wherever they uh if therewere a fire there.
But there was a time in the ohgosh, like 92, 93 that there was
a big fire, and I remember beingpart of the the fire line, like
we were just standing there forhours on end watching for
embers.

SPEAKER_03 (42:58):
Well, there were two, yeah.
There were, I think there waswell, there were several fires
that would happen.
And also sometimes um thefarmers nearby would just do a
burn pile and then sometimesthey get all freaked out about
that.
But if you read my book, therewas a massive, massive fire on
the mountain behind theproperty, and it was set by a

(43:20):
security guard that was up atthe eagle, which is this like
little lookout that that theywould the security guards would
man and they could see theentire property from that
location.

SPEAKER_01 (43:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (43:31):
Um, and um, yeah, so there were fires, it was a
nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 (43:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (43:37):
The other one that we did all kinds of drills, and
all and I do list out in thebook, I list out every single
type of drill that we would doand what it entailed.
The blow drill, that was anotherdrill that we had.
If somebody escaped, we had adrill for that to try to track
them down and find out wherethey went.

SPEAKER_00 (43:54):
You're reminding me too that in so in those cases
when there was an emergency likethat, that was the only time
that you were you you um took ona different duty, and now you're
part of this drill.
So you're allowed to not be onpost.

SPEAKER_01 (44:08):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
So for example, there was um there was a few
times when there was what therewas flood watch.

SPEAKER_03 (44:14):
Yeah, oh, how can I forget?
Flood drills, right?

SPEAKER_00 (44:18):
Big fires and big floods, yeah.
So there was there was timesthat we would literally be like
posted out on the south side ofthe property along the levee all
through the night.
It's like raining and wind isblowing, and we're sitting there
watching the levee.
I mean, it in retrospect, itseems ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
We drove our Chevy to the levee and the levee was
not dry.
It was there were times wherepeople would have to be posted
on the levee to s to basicallygive a progress report or status
report of the levee and if thelevee had broken, because every
time there was a big floodflood, almost every single time,

(44:55):
the levee would break and itwould flood the property.
So they had people, and Iremember on one of those, I was
just cutting down trees fulltime, all these dead trees along
the levee.
We were just cutting them downand and shoving them into places
where we thought the levee wasgonna break, and then they would
just float down the river.
It was it was ridiculous.
Okay, you got another one upthere?

(45:17):
Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Yep, we got tons.
Yep, here we go.
Question Since David Miscavigelikes to pretend he is not in
charge, who would he tell theFBI are the principal
policymakers?
What are their names and roles?
Yes, um, he does have um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (45:34):
Well, Elron Hubbard is the policymaker, to be fair.
This is how they this is one ofthe ways they get out, they get
around all this stuff is theysay, no, no one is setting any
policy.
Elrin Hubbard already said allthe policies, right?
We just have to follow them.
So everybody along the differentorganizations, there's heads of
all these differentorganizations, but their their

(45:54):
sole job is just to ensure thatthe things that Hubbard said are
getting done are getting done.
So they're not they're notdirecting it.
There's no one who directs thisis what has to be done because
it's already been done inpolicy.
But he has figureheads that areon paper, and they've got people
that are board members and allthat, but they've just all

(46:15):
signed uh undated resignations.
So if they escape, then they canjust say, Oh, yeah, no, that guy
he had to resign because he wasa total criminal and he did all
these things, and then they justget somebody else and they put
them on the paper.
It's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
And and in fact, in the early 80s, they had all
different kinds of um policy,and they had uh what was called
BTBs, board technical bulletinsthat were written by people
other than Hubbard, like umwhat's his name?
Um David Mayo and other things.
But then in later years theycanceled all of those.

(46:53):
So it was strictly and onlyHubbard on every single piece of
written documentation ofScientology.

SPEAKER_03 (46:59):
Yes.
And this is another thing.

SPEAKER_00 (47:01):
And that that then covered it so that when those
people were declaredsuppressives or whatever, then
they were not known to thepublic.
Um, Becky says Hubbard policycan never be changed unless
Captain Miscavige low-keychanges policy.
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (47:17):
And he does that, and the way he does that is he
cancels these policies and hejust says, Oh, those were
written by somebody else.
So that has become his newpretty much standard.
If some Hubbard policy is inplace that contradicts another
Hubbard policy or goes againstwhat he's trying to do, he just
says, Oh, that wasn't, we wentthrough everything.

(47:39):
That wasn't Hubbard.
That was written by this otherguy, even though Hubbard told
the other guy.
That's the other thing.
A lot of a lot of times Hubbarddid say, Hey, I want you to
write this policy that sayswe're gonna do
da-da-da-da-da-da.
And then that guy would write itup, and then Dave would say,
Well, that wasn't written byHubbard, so we're gonna delete
it.

SPEAKER_00 (47:57):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (47:58):
Wow, Jacob is like, he's just jamming on it here
today.

SPEAKER_00 (48:01):
All right.
Jacob, Mark, you've talkedbefore about a Danish news
program you were involved withwhere you talk to current ESA
members.
Do you know where to watch this?
Yes.
Oh, yeah, that will be part two,because we we were gonna do a
base, go through that video.
Yeah, go through that video.

SPEAKER_03 (48:18):
I went through it.
It's on one of my SP files.
I'm pretty sure.
Or it's on there.
It may be, we'll have to figure.
We'll find out which one it isand put it in the description.
But last week during the livechat, Clara did put a link to
that in the thing.
But yes, it was the the programthat the the Danes did, if you
if you just say uh DanishScientology documentary, that'll

(48:42):
probably that'll probably show.

SPEAKER_00 (48:45):
Yeah.
Um, I found it on YouTube bysearching.

SPEAKER_03 (48:49):
We'll put a link to the original one and then we'll
put a link to the video that Ibut yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (48:52):
If you go on YouTube and search Mark Headley,
Scientology, and Robert Dam, umthat's D-A-M.
D-A-M, yeah.
He's writ he's um he was part ofthat documentary, but that's
where I found it on YouTube.
But we'll we'll add the link tothe video description, Jacob.
Thank you.
Thank you, Jacob.

SPEAKER_03 (49:09):
That's very generous of you.

SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (49:12):
Um, apostate Alex is in here somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 (49:15):
Oh, hey.

SPEAKER_03 (49:15):
I just I see somebody says hey, apostate
Alex.

SPEAKER_01 (49:18):
Good to see you.

SPEAKER_03 (49:19):
Yeah, sorry if our video we did post that we were
doing this yesterday.
We did post it, but we did.
Um, we try to do it earlier.
We gotta basically we have a lotof people in Europe that watch.
So we try to do it earlier sothat they're not what watching
it in the middle of the night,Alex.
BT's activity.

SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
BT's activate.

SPEAKER_03 (49:38):
Um, but yes, so sometimes we're trying to do
these a little earlier for thethe the EU and UK and uh all our
UP European watchers.
Um, okay, here's another one.

SPEAKER_00 (49:49):
Um, sorry, let me get there.
Hi there, everyone.
I'm a bit late to the party too.
It's been a while since I caughtalive all the way from
Australia, even though I shouldbe in bed.
Nice, good to see you.
Thank you for coming back.

SPEAKER_03 (50:01):
Yes, this is another one from Witnesses.
Yeah, Robert Dam, Robert Dam isan amazing guy, in uh uh my
opinion.
I loved his discussion withMiriam in Denmark.
Yeah, I don't or Miriam.

SPEAKER_00 (50:13):
Um, Miriam, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:15):
Anyway, yes, we'll put a link and you guys can see
appreciate the friendly Eurotime.

SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
That reminds me actually.
I was gonna do an interview withRobert.
I'll have to read out reach outto him again.
Appreciate the Euro friendlytime.
Yes, exactly.
We appreciate you doing itearly.
Patrina, yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (50:30):
You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:31):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (50:32):
And I will be doing a foundation feed series with
Phil at 3 p.m.
mountain time later today.

SPEAKER_03 (50:38):
So oh, good for you, babe.

SPEAKER_00 (50:40):
Yeah, I didn't know that.
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (50:42):
Okay, well, got got golly gee linkers, Batman.
Um, okay.
Um, have you got any morequestions?

SPEAKER_00 (50:48):
Uh yep.
Here, hold on.

SPEAKER_03 (50:50):
We're gonna do a giveaway here in a little bit,
guys.
Oh, and by the way, I gottamention we've been getting
photos in on the Davy dolls.
And we I don't know, guys.
I gotta tell you, you gotta upyour game because we got one.
I mean, we have somebody who's3D printing sets for these
things.
Okay, so and the one he did,pretty amazing.

(51:10):
It was a I'm not gonna tell youwhat it was, but it had a mic
render bobblehead and a Davydoll.
And it was amazing.
Anyway, it's all it's right now.
It's my it's my top, it's mynumber one for October.

SPEAKER_00 (51:24):
So yeah, and and I have a feeling that that he's
gonna do a resubmission of thatbased on the questions that were
asked and answered.
Anyway, we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 (51:35):
Yikes.
Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
Uh yeah, Tracy says, and also the Broncos play it
too.
Exactly.
We're down for watching that.

SPEAKER_03 (51:42):
Yeah, that was just a convenient rescheduling bonus.

SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (51:47):
Okay, I got one for you.

SPEAKER_00 (51:49):
All right, here we go.
Um, question Do you think DavidMiscavige would have been able
to carry out his coup after Rondied if he hadn't been married
to Shelly?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.
I don't actually think so.
Shelly, um that's a good point.
Way more she I mean, she waswith Hubbard from age 11.

SPEAKER_03 (52:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:11):
Um, so yeah, I don't think that's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 (52:14):
I think it was a combination of factors, but yes,
that certainly helped his.
That's kind of ironic.

SPEAKER_00 (52:20):
It is.

SPEAKER_03 (52:21):
If you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 (52:23):
Yeah, I saw somebody asked, and I I didn't I did mark
it, but somebody was askingabout the timing of Shelly being
banished and sent to CST inmid-2005.
And I think it had a lot to dowith Tom Cruise personally and
her objection to DavidMiscavige's very close

(52:43):
friendship with uh Tom Cruiseanyway.

SPEAKER_03 (52:47):
Oh, look at this guy.

SPEAKER_00 (52:48):
Um Katrina, I've got some cool picks, but I don't
have X on a laptop.
Can I just email them to you?
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (52:59):
I know, but you can also just go to blownforgood.com
and you can submit photos on thecontact us page.

SPEAKER_00 (53:05):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (53:05):
You can send them if you don't want to share it or
whatever.
Yeah, just email them.
If you do it publicly, you canwell, you can just there's a
submission form on our website.
So you don't have to sell outall your details.

SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
So somebody said it was giving them a hard time.
So if yeah, I I've I haven't hada chance to test it yet.

SPEAKER_03 (53:23):
See, here we go.
I keep trying to say no, just goto the and she's like, There's a
problem.

SPEAKER_00 (53:27):
Send it by email or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (53:30):
Where's where should they send it?

SPEAKER_00 (53:33):
To me.
Which is where atblownforgood.com.

SPEAKER_03 (53:36):
There you go.

SPEAKER_00 (53:37):
They all know that.

SPEAKER_03 (53:38):
Well, they don't all, it's not every single
person that's here has been herebefore.
Sometimes we get newbies, anduh, we are getting guys gotta
tell you.

SPEAKER_00 (53:46):
Yeah, Petrina said she tried or uh tried to submit
on the the contact page on thewebsite and it didn't work.
So I'll get that fixed.
But email is an acceptablealternative way.
Perfect.
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (53:59):
And then I do have to say it does help us if you
guys like.
I we really don't push it thatmuch.
We just have it on the end, uhthe outro, which most people
don't even get to.
Yeah, um, but if you do like andsubscribe, that does help the
channel.
But also our podcast, this is wehave amazing news about the
podcast.
We are almost at a milliondownloads on the podcast

(54:21):
separately.
Um, and we are in right now perthe podcast platform that we
subscribe to, we were in the topfive percent.
We are now officially in the toptwo and a half percent of all
podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 (54:36):
How fitting.

SPEAKER_03 (54:37):
We're in the top two and a half percent of all
podcasts based on the number ofdownloads of a podcast in the
first week.
That's how they sort of ratethem.

SPEAKER_01 (54:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:45):
So if you get more than a certain amount in the
first week of the of the podcastbeing available, that episode,
yeah, then that's how you rank.
And we are in the top two and ahalf percent.
We can get in the top twopercent.
We just need more people tosubscribe to the podcast.
So if you go to Apple or Spotifyor wherever you get your
podcast.

(55:05):
Wherever you get your podcast.
If you want to subscribe to us,that helps us.
And also if you go in and yourate the podcast in your Apple
podcast, you can leave a littlerating and a review.
That also helps us.

SPEAKER_01 (55:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (55:18):
So um, I think we should do the giveaway now.
Yeah, yeah.
Unless you've got a questionthat's just you just you've got
to do it.
You've got to get this onecovered.

SPEAKER_00 (55:26):
Um, no, I did just want to comment that I saw I
like this one.

SPEAKER_03 (55:30):
Um it says Bachbuddy says, uh, I wonder how many orgs
have had to rely on Dave to paythe utility bills.
The African org had its powershut off for non-payment a
couple of years ago.
Yes, this is a common problemwith these new organizations
that David Miscavige has set up,is that international management
owns the property, but they'reresponsible for, excuse me,

(55:53):
they're responsible for payingall the local utilities and
bills and upkeep and all that.
They're supposed to do that.
And because these places are soempty and there's nobody in
there and they're not making anymoney, sometimes they have to
turn off the heat or they haveto turn off the air con air
conditioning because they justcan't afford it.
Um, and that does show you howuh how truly expanding they are,

(56:15):
that they can't even pay theirbills, they can't even pay the
the gas or the oil or theheating or the AC or whatever it
is, the water.

SPEAKER_00 (56:23):
Um I found I found the one that I wanted to talk
about here.

SPEAKER_03 (56:26):
Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 (56:27):
Um, Adam says Hebra Gens was my step-grandmother's
grandma's brother.
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 (56:33):
And and yeah, we we found out that Hebergents, well,
we knew this before, but wedidn't know the extent of it.

SPEAKER_00 (56:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (56:39):
How many um people were in his family?

SPEAKER_00 (56:41):
How many moms forty um 40 kids or something that he
was he was born into apolygamist Mormon family?
Yeah, I know.
I was like, holy moly.
I think I vaguely rememberhearing that he was Mormon, but
I didn't know somebody said hehad 40 something brothers in the
past.
I was like, what?

(57:02):
Yeah, yeah.
No, Janice told me that.

SPEAKER_03 (57:04):
I was like, I the math on that, no, no, no.
They were polygamous.
He had like eight moms orsomething like that.

SPEAKER_00 (57:10):
I was like, oh, yes, it was eight moms, that's right.
Yeah, and there were 41 um youknow, people in his immediate
family.
It's just crazy.
Anyway, hopefully he's allright.
Um, you know, we're holding outhope to get him out.
What can we say?

SPEAKER_03 (57:25):
Yeah, okay, guys.
Oh, look, we got double Clares.

SPEAKER_00 (57:29):
Oh, yay.

SPEAKER_03 (57:30):
Um, let's do some giveaways here, guys.
This is for a Davy doll.

SPEAKER_00 (57:34):
Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_03 (57:35):
Okay, we've got 101.
Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 (57:38):
Boom.

SPEAKER_03 (57:38):
Um, we've got 101 entries, 102.
Um, if you want a uh an entry towin a Davy doll, you gotta
comment.
And if you comment once onanything, you can say, hey,
you're in the you're in there.
So we'll give you guys a secondto do that.

SPEAKER_00 (57:53):
Hopefully, I don't win since I did comment once.

SPEAKER_03 (57:56):
Oh my goodness.
I know the travesty.
Here it goes.

SPEAKER_00 (58:00):
Here we go.
We're gonna find out.

SPEAKER_03 (58:01):
I did just see you went by.

SPEAKER_00 (58:03):
I know.

SPEAKER_03 (58:03):
Um, I've won, I've won before.
I've commented.
I didn't comment actually onthis one today.

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
Linda, yay, congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 (58:12):
There you go.
You're the winner.

SPEAKER_00 (58:14):
Yes.
So send me an email, Claire atblownforgood.com.

SPEAKER_03 (58:18):
I doubled it up for you.
Oh, so you can really get yourmessage across there.

SPEAKER_00 (58:22):
No, thanks.
That's not my not my jam.

SPEAKER_03 (58:27):
Um thanks for joining us, guys.
We are gonna do the video, we'regonna do a good video next week.

SPEAKER_01 (58:32):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (58:33):
We are gonna do all Scientology bases next week.
We're gonna cover up because weonly covered one base.
So we're gonna do a video that'sjust all of their secret bases.
And we'll touch on the imp base,but it'll be the imp base and
it'll be all their secret bases.
And even some locations thataren't bases, but they're still

(58:54):
secret.
We're gonna cover those too.

SPEAKER_00 (58:56):
Do you have somewhere that footage of when
you visited um the New Mexicoplace with John Sweeney?

SPEAKER_03 (59:02):
Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 (59:03):
We should find that.

SPEAKER_03 (59:04):
Yes, we'll find that.
John Sweeney, uh reporter fromthe uh UK, um, he was writing a
book called The Church of Fear.
And he came here to Colorado,and we drove to New Mexico in my
van and we went to a CST base.
If you go on um on the on theYouTubers and you just say

(59:27):
Church of Fear, I think it'sChurch of Fear trailer or Church
of Fear book.
Yeah, there is a little trailerthat I shot.
I helped John Sweeney shoot.

SPEAKER_01 (59:36):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (59:37):
And um, and it shows this.
And we'll maybe we'll show thatnext week.
Yeah.
But you can just Google it ifyou want to check it out.
And um, yeah, thanks forwatching.

SPEAKER_00 (59:46):
Yeah, there you go.
Oh, and then and then are yougonna pull up the um slides to
remind everyone about the thereyou go.

SPEAKER_03 (59:56):
Fake Navy Dale photo contest, guys.
You gotta uh send in your uhsend in your photos september
submissions we already did we'regonna do october submissions uh
the first week of november yepof november october yes october
submissions we're gonna get thefirst get the first video we do
in november we're gonna giveaway uh we're gonna do the

(01:00:16):
winners for that oh hey coffeemilk dude thank you for the
super sticker good to see youhere um awesome okay guys sounds
good thanks for joining us andtill next time and we will see
you next week like and like andsubscribe comment do everything
that helps the algorithm thanksfor watching if you'd like to
help support the channel feelfree to check out the merch

(01:00:39):
store link in the description wehave hail xenu xenu is my
homeboy and BFG branded mousepads shirts mugs all sorts of
other stuff in there that helpsus to bring you new content on a
regular basis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book Blown for Good Behind
the Iron Curtain of Scientologyin hardback, Kindle and Audible

(01:01:02):
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast and you can get that on
Apple Spotify or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video you can click on
this link right here or you canclick on this one here or you
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot until next time