Severance: Cults and Corporate Control - Severance & Scientology - #3 - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
and welcome back to the channel.
I am your host for today,claire headley, and we are
joined by my special guest here,mr I Ian Rofalco.
Hey, it's great to see you, hey,hey, yes, you too.
We were just talking about howit's funny that I feel like I
know you, but actually I'venever talked to you personally,

(00:36):
at least not face to face.
You know a little bit of phonehere and there, which, by the
way, I would love to sometime,on a separate episode, talk with
you about comparing storiesabout growing up in the cult of
Scientology.
I'm sure we could talk forhours about that, those
parallels absolutely.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm uh.
I'm what the I'm what they calla professional yapper.
I uh, I can run on, uh.
Most of my old streams went onto like four hours of me just
talking about nothing, but I'm abit more focused these days, so
I feel like that would be areally fun conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Awesome.
Well, I'm down for that.
And today we are doingseverance part three to have
what I'm sure is going to be afascinating conversation.
We conversation you and I havetexted a little bit about some
of the crazy Severance parallels.
Of course, we're talking aboutnone other than the amazing TV

(01:34):
show on Apple TV, severance, ofwhich there is now season one
and season two, and they lockedin for season three, yay.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh, thankfully.
Oh, my gosh, I like I hadn'tstarted until.
I never started watching it,until you know, I never had
apple tv plus for a while andand, uh, I started watching like
the first season, I or thefirst episode, and I was like
this is kind of boring.
So I like stopped and a coupleweeks later season two came out

(02:03):
and so it's like, okay, I'lljust, I'll just throw on the
first episode and it struck melike like a bullet.
It was insane.
And then I was, I was obviouslysucked in.
I mean the parallels, it's like.
It's like they surveyed C organstaff members specifically to

(02:27):
draw these parallels.
So I, I'm, I'm, I love the show.
I'm on like the bleeding edgeof like I don't think I'll be
able to wait for it to uh, forseason three even to come out
fully before I watch it.
I'm just probably going to beon the weekly um watch schedule,
but uh, we did talk about it afew times.
So I was, I'm, I'm excited touh, to talk more.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yes, no, absolutely so, and and that's interesting
that you say it you didn't getinto it the first time.
I watched it the first season,when it came out, and it really
didn't.
Uh, I didn't start drawingparallels right away, I will say
that, but the moment it hit, ithit me like a ton of bricks.

(03:10):
And then actually, I finishedthe first season and then I
rewatched the first season rightbefore season two came out, and
that time I was keeping copiousnotes, um, but so yeah.
So I guess, starting off, foryou, what's, what's the biggest
element that really hits you?

(03:31):
Obviously, we could go intomany, many details, and some of
those we'll probably touch ontoday.
But, but, just like I'm curious, what from you know, from the
overview perspective, what, whathit you the most?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
you know, from the overview perspective, what, what
hit you the most.
You know, and, and it's right,there are like so many nuances
that I feel like really speak tothe Scientology experience.
But I think the one mainreoccurring thing was and you
see it also in all thesedifferent parts it's like the
overarching aspect of like,especially on like from the

(04:11):
people, from Lumen management,this aspect of total, certain
control over anyone andentitlement to that control,
like and in how mr milchak, likehe had his role and he had all
his, you know, his, hismannerisms in check.

(04:31):
He had all his, you know uh, youknow you'd think they'd be in
the back doing chinese schoolbefore uh it opened, you know he
, all of his, uh mannerisms, hehad his, his trs in, so to speak
.
You know, couldn't, couldn't uhchange his, uh couldn't react
in certain ways, but even peopleabove him and this disconnect

(04:54):
from this higher authority thatwas like I was, I felt it, like
it just like brought me back toall of this, like this feeling
of, you know, unquestioningloyalty to this, or even if you,

(05:16):
you know, weren't unquestioning, you knew you couldn't ask
certain questions, like therewas this total separation
between this entitled power andthe day-to-day average person.
Let's say who was just doingtheir job.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's hard to explain.
You know, like you couldn'teven know what they were doing.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, did you see parallels?
I'm curious because you knowobviously, like, for example,
there's so many great books oncults and what happens when you
join a cult and all that.
That really, to me, helpspeople outside of that
experience understand how thatcan happen to normal people.

(06:03):
But the any versus the outie,to me, the parallel of you know
your pre-cult personality versuscult personality, did that that
part hit you as well?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
yeah, you know, and especially hearing uh Mark S,
you know it'd be like the workis mysterious and important,
like that concept of ofimportance and and how it never,
it never really translates tothe Audi.
But even in small things, whenhe was confronting the

(06:38):
protesters, uh, outside of, uh,you know, in the town square and
and he was challenging them inthis sort of vague, sort of
broad way where you you couldn'treally uh because they know
that lumen is bad and and,objectively, if you have any
kind of like uh, understandingof you know, uh, you know the

(07:02):
difference between like what isand is not technically slavery,
you would, you would questionthis, this, the severance
procedure, you would have majormoral problems with it because
there are a lot of moralproblems with it.
But, like, like, the way hewould challenge them reminded me
of you know, the way I wouldhave to justify.

(07:24):
You know, you get this kind ofbrazen in these small moments,
these brazen moments where youcould, you know, fight for the
cause in your own small way.
But it was never like tacklingspecifics, it was never diving
into specifics.
Even, um, he was on the datewith that one girl and she and

(07:45):
you could tell he was just likedepleted.
Obviously he had his ownbaggage, but you know he keeps
getting asked the same questionsand he sort of like prepared
himself to, kind of like youknow, kind of reminded me like I
would never tell people soeasily that I was a
Scientologist because I knew allthe all the constant sort of

(08:09):
repetitive questions that I'dhave to answer.
And it is really drainingbecause, like you justify it
enough to yourself, but you knowyou can only do it so far.
I mean, he did get really drunkand that was probably what you
know, gave him the courage tochallenge those people, but um,

(08:29):
uh, but it was really like youknow who you are on post and
everything else is kind of uh,filling the time, the, the audi.
So, as it were, sort of has todeal with all that emotional
overflow from the innies,suppressing everything.

(08:52):
I mean in this.
It's like a.
There are differences obviously, like the sci-fi aspect of like
a piece of technology actuallysevering your brain, um, right,
or you know, but um, and I havemy own problems with that
concept.
But again it feeds into howunworkable it is as a technology

(09:16):
because you know it's a, it's atv show right but yeah, yeah, I
just I I just.
I feel like it's.
I feel like it's, it was veryrelatable.
I definitely there were momentswhere I very much related to
Mark a lot.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yes, yes, no, absolutely.
And yes, talking about thatprotest scene, you're right.
It reminded me too of, you know, our scripted responses to any
questions about Scientology.
That never allowed.
It was never an actualconversation, right?
It's not like oh well, let meyou know, I ask you a question

(09:55):
and you think about it andponder your thoughts on
something and respondappropriately in that moment.
However that might be, it wasnever like that in scientology.
It was always scripted.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
100 well, I'm allowed to leave, like, oh, no one's
putting chains on my arms, youknow, no, but it's like that's
not really the issue.
You know there are multiplefacets and and that just also
speaks to you know, differentpeople have different
understandings of the concept ofcontrol and uh, you know, uh,

(10:31):
even the way people in his lifeyou know tip, tap, tiptoed
around, uh, this sensitive topicof having, you know, been
severed, it was just like very,you know, I could tell a lot of
the times people would tiptoearound me and, um, I mean, I'm a
totally different person than Iwas back then.
But again, this show justreally, episode after episode,

(10:56):
was just beating the hell out ofme.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Let me tell you, yes, yeah, no same, same for me, and
that's why my husband, hewatched the first season but, as
I was telling you, right whenwe started, he was like, oh, you
should absolutely talk to toIan, because he's you've you've
obviously watched both seasonsand for Mark it was almost too
triggering, like you know.

(11:19):
Obviously we, we both have fulltime day jobs and you know when
you get home at night you don'tnecessarily want to spend an
hour revisiting dark times.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Right, yeah, and he had a very stressful job, so
that makes sense a lot more.
It strays more into theabstract nature of lumen itself
as opposed to the uh, especiallybecause, like you, you know

(11:56):
they, they come back andsuddenly, you know, there's been
this whole revolution of youknow's rights and the little
video with Keanu Reeves playingLumen from from all, like the,

(12:22):
the super, you know, like thisis something I feel like I could
like more deeply relate to andit was more like, you know, goat
sacrifices and the more like um, uh, let's say, ritualistic
differences between lumen andgear and all that.

(12:45):
And scientology, which has veryfew, I'd say most of the
rituals are very bureaucraticand very um, person to person.
It's very like internal,whereas lumen has all these like
actual, like the waffle party,like all these bizarre um, uh, I

(13:08):
don't really know, like um, youknow, with the dancers and
everything they had there were.
There were different it's.
They're different enough towhere the second season was a
bit lighter for me still yeah uh, I mean I I honestly with the
second season I was just everyepisode I was like, okay, so
they're just going to buildsuspense forever there.

(13:30):
I I was like I really wanted tosee something happen and there
was like a whole episode.
I think it was the episodewhere, um, uh, what's her name?
it's been a few weeks now uhheli heli uh, no, the the boss,
the the uh, oh, yes, white hairmiss coble, miss coble, yeah,

(13:53):
like, there we go she and shewent on her whole little side
quest and then you find out thatshe actually designed this
technology, which wasn't reallyevident at all.
honestly, kind of um, I mean, ifanything, I feel like that
spoke more to like how bizarresome people end up from being

(14:21):
like born into a system likethis, where your head is filled
with all these different thingsand that is nurtured in a closed
environment, and and kind ofhow you end up and yeah, it's,
it's 100 percent parallels tothe cadet organization Language,
the language, the structure,the, everything.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Like you said, in that closed system they don't
want.
You know, like in Scientology,criticism or critical thinking
is completely frowned upon.
So when you imprint that from avery young age, it's so, so
destructive.
But I did want to comment,though, back to the ritualistic
part.
To me, like I look at it and goobviously now in retrospect,

(15:09):
even Scientology events aretheir own strange form of ritual
that to an outsider they wouldyou know.
Go.
What is this?
What am I experiencing?
Like the standing ovations andthe this and the that, like
every hip, hip hooray.
Yes, any person in that audienceknows what's expected of them.

(15:31):
I'm talking about at aScientology event at any given
moment, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I mean yeah, and it's especially, uh, I mean
like idealization of likeanimals in relation to human,
like it was very, um, I mean, itwould have made scientology a
hell of a lot more interesting,to be honest, but and it was
just it.
It's sort of and that's why thefirst season really felt more

(15:56):
personal, because it's just likecold, psychologically brutal,
like muted environment, you knowright you spend all your time
in these buildings that are likeglorified and you're just well.
it's, you know, the the magickind of wears off after like six
months of being in thisbuilding all day, every day, and

(16:18):
it's like and that wasexemplified in that there's just
like these white hallways, sortof like a liminal space With no
real idea of what they wereeven doing either.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
No exactly Like you said doing important and
mysterious work.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, and it's work that you never, that you put so
much effort, there's so mucheffort and focus on making sure
that you meet quotas and meetthese targets, and there's so
much hostile pressure sometimesviolent pressure that you're
doing this thing that you neverreally see the effect of in the

(17:00):
world, but you're guaranteedthat it's good work the world,
but you're guaranteed that it'sgood work.
You know, um, uh yeah, letterwriting, for example, a very
repetitive and mostly follyexercise that, um, a lot of
people like letter writing.
I found it to be soul drainingbecause I'm just, I felt like I

(17:20):
was just wasting paper because Inever got letters back and, um,
but you couldn't do the sameletter twice, you couldn't
standardize a greeting, youcouldn't do anything.
It had to be unique each oneand this favoritism based on who
is more willing to accept thesekinds of environments.

(17:46):
I found it funny.
The Lumen building felt a lotlike Flag in a way.
I don't think you or Mark havebeen inside the new Flag
building when you're in there,like the amount of magnetic

(18:07):
locks and stretching hallwayswith endless doors and these big
displays of of of atrium.
When you first walk in you cango back toward.

(18:28):
You know there's all the oh,these are the 11 000 churches
and missions on this big gildedmap.
And, uh, you know, you gothrough, you go.
You can either go to the l?
Run hubbard museum or the c?
Org museum they call it.
It's really l?
Run hubbard museum, it says thec?
Org museum and it's just haseverything about elron hubbard.
I mean, you can tie everythingin scientology back to

(18:48):
glorifying elron hubbard, but,um, you know right uh, it
reminded me of this key.
Like they had his, they had hissuit.
Uh, from the apollo yes, and,and you know, in this big glass
case that's like argon gassealed for preservation.
And I mean they might as wellhave had like a wax statue of of

(19:09):
L Ron Hubbard with, like thethe bad, the badly attached hair
and um, you know, uh.
Or you go into the atrium andthere are these, these
sculptures that represent theeight dynamics, which is like a
very.
It's like one of the firstthings you learn, but they have

(19:31):
it in this, from like an onyxcoated bronze up to like this
glass little figure reachingtowards the sky.
This very uh.

(19:52):
It's the only place where itfeels like Scientology is bigger
than this day-to-day sort ofbureaucratic, stressful, target
meeting situation.
But when you're in the Sea Orgor a staff member or you know

(20:17):
you don't spend a lot of timedown there and you aren't.
You know the encouragement likewhen you're at flag and you're
there for training, uh, it is uhbrutal and the uh.
There are two there are.
One thing that I reminded me ofespecially was now there's like

(20:37):
a public hco hubbardcommunications office.
You know where all the ethics,ethics particles, ethics, people
, the, the problem people arehandled, uh, and there's a
public room for that, which islike a little waiting room and
then it goes into this backlittle you know white room where
you can listen to your historyof man or state of man lectures

(20:58):
for the 15th time and, uh, doyour clay demos with clay that's
hard as rocks so you're hurtingyour hands and um, but then
there's the staff hco space andthat is through a all the doors
are like 200 pounds and theyit's like there's these, this,

(21:23):
they, they open this door andit's this hallway.
That's got to be at least likelike 600 feet and there's just
doors and the ceilings are areare super high, so it's like all
these doors down and you justuh, and that's where you would
get taken if you uh, if you werea staff member or a seer member

(21:45):
and you were being bad, andthen you'd have, you know, a
senior scream at you behind thissoundproof uh door, in this
like lifeless room.
Um, it was just very.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
With cameras, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yes, Every room had cameras and it's funny, at flag
they have.
Uh, I'm sure they did this inother places, but they have a
picture of LRH in every room andright at the bottom there's a
silver strip that's like a twoway mirror where they, they put
the camera behind.
So he's always watching.
Uh, and it's, and it's verythat that's, that's new.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
When we when we got out in 2005 that that whole
building was under planning.
So like I remember hearingabout that the eight dynamics
presentation thing.
But but yeah, you're right thatthe to me what your description
epitomizes the glossy facadeversus the reality of life

(22:45):
inside.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, but because it's totally different, totally
different lives.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, sorry yes, yeah, no, no, and and again.
That's where it's like the theinnie versus the outie, going
back to severance.
You know it's like the realityof life inside is absolutely
never what you think.
Just walking in the door at theoutset.
For sure Not that you or I everhad the chance to walk in the

(23:16):
door in the first place, beingborn into it, but you know
that's like I.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
I said story for another day.
Yeah, yeah, the, the.
There's a detail, but I didwant to ask you too.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
No I was talking for a while.
We'll go back and forth, youcan ask me okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
So back to severance.
I was going to ask you.
So we kind of, when we weretexting about this, we kind kind
of touched on, like I hadcommented, oh yeah, the
cognitive dissonance.
I'm just, I guess I'm curiousto hear your thoughts on what
you think a Scientologist wouldthink watching this, because I
remember bringing up well, Iread 1984 when I was a teenager

(23:51):
and I didn't, you know,obviously in retrospect I should
have like newspeak, all thosedifferent elements that should
have hit me like a ton of bricks.
Granted, I didn't, you know,obviously in retrospect I should
have like news speak, all thosedifferent elements that should
have hit me like a ton of bricks.
Granted, I was 13.
But I'm just curious yourthoughts on that piece
particularly.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, and I, and honestly I got to imagine
that there is some localScientology outrage, you know,
over this show for being.
You know over this show forbeing.
You know they have so many likedefinitions for things like

(24:26):
this, like J and D or yeah,which is joking and degrading
Yep.
Joking and degrading or likesomething similar, even though L
Ron Hubbard stole a lot of hismethods to sort of construct
what we know is Scientology.
You know, a Scientologistwatching this, I feel like,

(24:47):
would feel like offended thatthere are things that resemble
Scientology, processing or andand and I it reminds me of um,
uh, my brother telling me youknow who is the uh director of
inspections and reports at theDC org.
Uh, so he's like the, he's the,he's the boogeyman of the DC

(25:07):
org who, basically, you know, ifanyone steps out of line, he
finds them.
I mean, he's a pretty harmlessguy, but in the scientology
world it's a very you know rigid, you know structure, how they
handle bad people.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
But uh, um, and by bad people, of course, you mean
disbelievers, yeah, people whoare questioning any amount of
doubt.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah and um, and it was, uh, it was um.
You know, he walked out of thatone movie, the julian assange
movie, because oh yeah, theymentioned he um released wiki
leaks.
A part of his release of wikileaks was was exposing

(25:55):
Scientology and the whole andthese other things.
It was maybe 30 seconds of thistwo hour movie and he just
stood up and walked away andthat always stuck with me
because I felt in my head I waslike, well, I should be better
than that.
I should be.
You know, in my head, if Ibelieve in something, I should

(26:17):
not be so afraid, I should notbe so fragile about my, about
criticisms of my beliefs.
Now, that was my, that was myerror.
You're supposed to be fragileand you're supposed to be
terrified of everything becauseGod forbid you develop a
conscience or a frame ofreference for, uh, you know a

(26:41):
conversation because you're notallowed to discuss with
scientology, with critics, whichis wild to me.
Every time I think about that.
I was watching actually, uh, oneof the uh I forget what it was
the first or the second umseverance episode you did with
Mark and uh when he said um, thebiggest lie, the biggest

(27:06):
contradiction, is thecommunication release.
Uh, you know this grand step inScientology where you're freely
able to to, to communicate withanyone and everything about any
topic, but that's a completelie, a whole, 100% of a lie,
because there are severalcourses that detail exactly who

(27:29):
you cannot speak to, what topicsyou must avoid and are
prohibited from speaking to.
Topics you must avoid and areprohibited from speaking to and
like, and there are all theselists of punishments for for
doing so.
I just found it like so youknow.
So, watching this.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, yeah.
No, you reminded me of the canwe ever be friends lecture,
which, of course, you knowthat's Hubbard.
That's the whole talk aboutexactly what you're saying.
Like there, if, if you want tomaintain outside relations, it
all has to be carefullystructured so as to not freely

(28:09):
communicate.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I mean cause, if you, if you get this idea
that Scientology is not the onlyand most workable way to live
your life, which there are manypolicies that describe why it
should be, which you'd think itjust being workable would speak

(28:31):
for itself.
But that's critical thinking.
That's too close to realistic.
You know, god forbid.
You have an inkling that, uh,life outside of Scientology is,
is possible because that aloneis is like suppressive, because

(28:52):
somehow you're inhibitingsomeone from you know, even in
the PTSSP course, where you knowthis is like the tome of how to
handle the suppressives, theSPs, it highlights that
preventing a person fromreceiving or delivering standard

(29:13):
Scientology is a suppressiveact.
That also applies to you.
That also applies to youdelivering or receiving
Scientology.
So you know you committed thissuppressive act against
Scientology by removing yourself.
It is like this total they havesuch entitled, so entitled to
everything and everyone aroundthem, and obviously that's baked

(29:38):
into this.
You know ideology.
So anyone questioning anything,anyone living good elsewhere,
is a threat to that concept.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Right, not, and, by the way, that's not so
dissimilar in my mind to thereactions when that when the
topic of reintegration comes upin severance.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah well, reintegration does not exist.
It does not exist Right.
And, to that point, the smalldetails that really hit me and
that I feel like would hit otherScientologists as well and
really make them feel attacked,that they're seen outside, from
outside this personalrelationship, that they're seen
outside, you know from outsidethis personal relationship that
they would have with scientology.

(30:20):
Things like when mark um doessomething incorrectly and you
see him sitting in a chair inthe hallway reading here's
policies or reading the word ofcure, and they're laid out very
similar to lrh policies orhcob's, and that alone that was

(30:42):
like oh, oh god, my mom's gonnahate this.
I mean, it's, it's very easy toset off my parents, but like
mine too, it it's, it would be.
I feel both so gripping.
But so to them insulting thatlike, which is only mine, and

(31:03):
and and and and and couldn't befor anybody else, and and you
know like would be, would beenough to get them off, which is

(31:27):
crazy.
Because I feel like both my, Ifeel like my brother would love
the show.
I feel like my, uh, my parentswould love the show.
I mean, I don't really have agreat.
They don't really like me verymuch these days.
But you know, maybe watch theshow, maybe prove me wrong.
Watch the show, see how youknow, with a stone face, watch
it with your TRS in and I don'tknow, I think it's.

(31:51):
I think it's silly to be afraidof watching a TV show, right?
I?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
completely agree.
I couldn't agree more.
But yeah, thecompartmentalization that
happens in the brain of aScientologist is I think it's.
It is fragile, like you'resaying, because all it would
take is for any person who's afirm believer just to ask any
simple question, any number ofquestions, Right, and if they

(32:16):
actually ask themselves thatquestion?
Yes.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, it's that fear it's like.
Why are you afraid?
I thought you were OT.
What is this fear?
Who is this fear directed to?
Is it the SPs inflicting fearupon you?
Who's feeling the fear Is it?
You know you could turn thatinto an auditing question.
You know who feels your fear.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Who's asking?
The question why are youfeeling fear at a simple act of
just asking a question.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, I'm wondering, who exactly are you afraid of?
Are you afraid of me forprosing something that you
happen to see, you know, walkingby?
Or are you afraid that whatI've said makes gives the the
remote possibility thatScientology of David Miscavige

(33:15):
of this, of this hyper demanding, like, uh, entitled authority
structure that you've, you know,you've given your you know,
given your life to, essentially?

Speaker 1 (33:29):
right.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You know you've sold yourself for this sort of uh in
group and um it.
It is wild.
I mean the mean the uh,everything about this show, like
the break room uh, which I knowyou talked with mark about, I I
found it very um, it was areduction for sure.
I mean they couldn't do itone-to-one.

(33:50):
The reduction of the uh of,like the intricacies I guess of
of auditing, but it's the samepremise.
It is like a um a repetitivesort of hypnotic conditioning
yeah, and in this way, the um,the emotional breakdown of yeah
like the whole remorse, regret.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
You're a bad person internalizing everything, all of
that yes, falling asleep, oh mygosh, the falling asleep.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
It's funny a lot of people.
I'm new in scientology andthere was always this um
emphasis on hypnotism, bad,hypnotism, bad.
You know, don't learn abouthypnotism and learning about
hypnotism.
A lot of these similar symptomsfrom hypnotism occur in
Scientology auditing and youknow you, you know on in my own,

(34:41):
you know research andobservation of the comparison
between the two is there's not abig, there's not a large
comparison.
The thing is like if you sitsomeone down in a confined space
, finds space and with with youin between the person and the
door, which already is apsychological manipulation

(35:02):
tactic right which and, by theway, you mentioned that, but
that is covered in in hubbard'swriting that that is how you
position.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
You position it so the person cannot leave.
You're going to force them tostay there, no matter what yeah,
and that's.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I mean that alone, like that level of, like
subconscious submission primes aperson to be hypnotically
receptive and you repeat things.
Repetition is extremelyprevalent in hypnotism.
Uh, you know, uh, they getdrought.
I mean, he adds all this extra.

(35:39):
Oh well, you know the blow offor boil off, and you know the
thetan analytical attenuationyeah and and um, and you add all
this stuff so that in themoment, you can justify this
process.
Honestly, you're doing a lotmore work in, in a sense, than
the, than the, than thepre-clear the person being

(36:02):
audited is, in that you arethinking for them.
You're doing all thisprocessing, uh, to cover the
fact that you're just likehypnotizing them over and over
and over and over, and sometimesit's not as direct, and
sometimes it's not always,sometimes it's simply for the

(36:23):
purpose of, like batteringsomeone into a more receptive
state psychologically.
And I think, especially withthe example in the show where
it's an apology, I think,especially with the example in
the show where it's an apology,it is this person sitting there,
unable to leave, you know,having to apologize over and

(36:47):
over and over and over and over,and conditioned to, in a sense,
feel sorry and to feel shamefor this thing, yeah, and to use
the words given to them toapologize, which ties back to
the kind of a cross betweenethics and Chinese school.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Chinese school, obviously you're chanting the
same thing over and over again.
But the words are given to youLike no variations, no nothing.
It has to be that exact scriptwhich is so.
Again, that's one of one ofyou're right, that's a piece
that has eerie parallels.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
yeah, and I feel, I feel like if I was, if I put
myself in the scientologistshoes, I'd be like, oh, it's
nothing like that.
Oh, it's oh, well, oh, but webut we freely get like I would
be like, oh, but the policies Ihave read, you know, I'd pull
directly from what, how I'msupposed to justify it, to say,
oh well, the writing says thatthat this isn't, this isn't,

(37:44):
this would not work on a person.
But very few Scientologistsactually learn how hypnotism
works at all.
I mean, they refer to somethinglike Dianetics, which, if it
says anything at all ofsubstance, I'd be surprised
They'd probably come after mefor that.
But again, I find it veryclever that they guise it in

(38:10):
like oh, auditing makes you lesssusceptible to hypnotism.
Based on what, I wonder?
makes you less?

Speaker 1 (38:17):
susceptible to hypnotism, based on what I
wonder.
Well, and you know that in hispersonal library Hubbard had all
the psychological textbooks oflike 2,000 books of other
practices than Scientology.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
So he can read it and he can have that knowledge.
But not a Scientologist?
Yeah, but Scientology auditingis definitely not hypnosis.
Even though he had to learn allof these things about
psychology, hypnosis, control,etc.
To make Scientology, it hasnothing to do with any of these
things, with any of these things, strictly on the basis that he

(39:01):
somehow on his own was able tolift, go exterior and visit all
these planets and pull from allthis past, blah, blah, blah.
And that's the reason that youshould just not question.
Yes, I feel like that is thereason I feel like, and I feel
like it's just so thin, eventhough, like Lumen is like this
structured company, I wonder.
My biggest question is what dothey make?

(39:22):
What are their?
What are they export?
What do they do?
Uh like, cause it's it, it'sthe.
It's similar in the sense thatit's under the guise of being a
company or a corporation ofsorts, and obviously the members
idealize the founder in whereScientology is sort of the
opposite, where it's pitched asa religion but operates mostly

(39:45):
as a company happened because ofthe IRS exemption in 1993.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Prior to that, in my, in my you know, from birth
until 1993, it 100% didn't havethat religious religious banner.
It wasn't, you know.
I can remember when I was seven, when my my mother told me what
to tell people that Scientologyis.
It was a you know and it's anit's a way to help yourself get
better.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah self-help.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Exactly that was the script, and then it became an
applied religious philosophylater as the new script.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, it seems more of like an inclusive, like
all-in-one business, the.
The religious aspect reallyseemed very thin, very fake,
like my parents weren'treligious.
They, they they kind of justsaid it's the word religious did
a lot of heavy lifting and whatthey did, because we didn't

(40:52):
pray, we didn't have any kind of.
There was no spiritual empathyor spiritual nature to their
relationship with Scientology.
It was always production equalsmorale and production with
getting audited or doingauditing equals morale in life

(41:13):
and able to handle things.
So it was always just extremelytransactional, mostly to the
benefit of Scientology.
Because you know, like, are youtelling me?
Like two, like now my brotherrecently went ot8 and um, so now

(41:35):
there's three ot8s in thefamily and somehow they're still
as a, they're still just asterrified to have a conversation
about the nature of science.
It's just like.
It seems like the more youScientology you do, the less
productive you become.
Absolutely, I mean you know, youknow.

(41:57):
So it was just, I was just avery the reality, like the
comparisons between the controldynamics.
I think for me we're just, likealways, the most striking but
yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
And Mark and I talked about this piece, but I'd love
your thoughts on it too.
But the aspect of leaving,trying to get out, the escaping,
you know from the, whether it'sdylan, when he resigned, and he
goes to the elevator and hethinks he's leaving and instead
he goes down to the basement,even further in.
Or Gemma, when she has themoment in the elevator she's

(42:33):
trying to get out.
And then you know the, the, theswitch is flipped and all of a
sudden she's back where shestarted.
To me, those, those were darkparallels.
What are, what were yourthoughts?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, I feel like the concept of having to um, I
think Mark brought up the CSWcomparison as well.
Yes, completed staff work ofhaving to have approval.
Having to have approval to leave, because there's no special way
to enter Scientology, but thereare extreme specific steps that

(43:09):
must occur for someone tosafely and properly leave
scientology.
It's going to take a lot ofwork, it's.
You know there's going to bepushback.
You know you might get yelledat here and there, depending on
how uh, how much like, how deepyou are in.
I feel like, and the way I'vedescribed this before.

(43:33):
But the way that Scientology isstructured and the way it has
it's kind of self sealing system, like there's what you do,
there's it's designed to bedifficult to understand.
Well, mostly because it'snonsense, like, but let's say
for the, let's say for the senseit's designed to be difficult
to understand.
Well, mostly because it'snonsense, like, but let's say
for the, let's say for the senseit's designed to be, it is

(43:56):
difficult to understand uh on,uh, as is.
But there's also uh correction,corrective technology, yes, to
scoop you up when you, when itfails, to then put you back at
the top, to where you dosomething very simple and you're

(44:16):
validated for it, and then youskate on the top until it fails
again.
Um, the amount of, I thinkreally it made me think of the
amount of uh people, no matterwhat position at flag.
I spent a lot of time in qual,the qualifications division on
on the.
I think it was the fifth floorwhere, which is of the

(44:40):
qualifications division of flagis, by definition, supposed to
be where the most standard,perfect application of
scientology is delivered and is,you know, decided right.
But even the, even the qual,even the qualsec, was getting
like cramming.

(45:01):
He was even the, the highest,like uh, well, I guess the
highest would be the, the, the,the senior CS, but the, like,
all these people who were aboveme were getting corrected for
their lack of the ability tospot a floating needle or to not
apply this technology, or Iwould get reprimanded for

(45:22):
something, and then I would showthem a reference and they'd be
like okay, that checks out, andI'm just like so there is no
consensus, there is no um, no,um and uh.
You know everyone's sort ofjust kind of bumbling around,
bumping into each other and this, this whole professionalism.
I think the fact that there'ssuch uh harsh white glove

(45:46):
policies like cleaning policies,also does a lot of work,
because did you catch?

Speaker 1 (45:52):
that white glove was also in severance, by the way I
did I I told that to my.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I was sitting with my girlfriend.
I was like the white glove.
You know how many times I hadto do that, staying on friday
nights to clean the top top ofthe bookshelves and, yes, I was
vacuuming out the sconces andthe light work.
Uh, climbing these like 15 footladders with like a vacuum
strap to me.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
And, by the way, how weird is it too that it is the
ethics officer who comes in withthe white glove.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Because it's, you know, so weird.
So I know many men.
I probably have 200 memories ofnobody's going home.
Until you get a white glovepass on your spaces 200 memories
of nobody's going home untilyou get a white glove pass on
your spaces.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, even even when I did the, the, the competence
and leadership course on thefree wins, where you basically
pay $1,500 to be to clean theship, wow, They'd had white
glove.
That was like you were in a bunkwith three other bunk beds, so
like it was you and three otherpeople in a room and they you

(46:56):
know they would come in with theglove and they would go
underneath the, the shelves andthe corners behind the, the
backs of the beds, like, and itwas so rigorous.
I mean I can see it like as aparallel between like military,
um, like paramilitary.
They say you can do a coursewhere they treat you like shit
and you know you, maybe you're alittle.

(47:17):
The trauma alone like perks youup and makes you a little
easier to clean.
It's a blah, blah, blah.
But like you, you were paying.
Go on a religious retreatcruise ship to scrub the engine
room and I uh, they reallywanted me to join the Sea Org

(47:38):
there.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
And wait.
So how old were you when youdid this?

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Uh, I think I was 17, 17.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh, my goodness Doing that.
Yeah, I went there with myfriend.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Uh, I went there with a friend of mine, tyler, and I
remember he was like we were inthe at the end.
Uh, there was a couple of daysbefore the.
We were waiting, like the wholeclass has to graduate at the
same time, so like one guy wasfalling behind on his coursework
.
So we had a couple of days,like one or two days, uh, in

(48:09):
Aruba.
We never left port, by the way.
Uh, we just stayed on the portand just clean this ship for two
weeks.
Um, uh, and we were sitting inthe, uh, in the pool Cause
finally, we were able to use allthese facilities.
Um, tyler's like man, you know,being at Aruba is cool, but like

(48:33):
once he starts talking about,like his past lives, being in
space, like that was bullshit,right.
So I was so deep into it.
I was like you know, like, uh,well, like you don't know the
the true you, you know youweren't born into it, so maybe
there's some things that'll seema little off.

(48:54):
I was just, I think it's likeman, he, he was ahead of the
curve, he was definitely um,it's just crazy things, you know
.
I honestly, in a way, mrmilchick really grew on me as a
character oh, me too, me toolike, and it's so easy to hate
him when you're when you don'treally know what that kind of

(49:16):
life is like.
But you know he was.
He gave me this like likevisceral, like spine chilling
fear.
You know, like your butt cheeksclench when he enters the
screen at first Cause he remindsyou of every like overbearing,

(49:37):
like missionary or or or Sea Orgmember, always perfectly shirt,
perfectly pressed, always ontime, always like like dealing
with all this shit, but alwaystaking his orders from somewhere
else.
He's like kind of anunquestioning authority.

(49:59):
And then there was the giftsthat he received in the form of
the paintings.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Oh yes.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Of here and I saw you see it on his face.
You see this like and I'm, forthe record, not a black man, so
I don't want to speak.
For, just in case you know,people were curious, I don't
want to speak for that, butseeing, even just from

(50:30):
observation, like his conflictand the like, they literally
took these paintings of kier andput blackface on them and were
like here this is, this is aspecial treat for you, where
we've, you know, turned your uhidentity into a caricature and

(50:57):
you can see it's like he isdevoted to this thing.
That just would respect a speckof dirt more than him.
And like he's he, he, herealizes this and you can see it
.
And he like looks at natalie,who's like the speaker, for yeah
, you know, she's like, she'slike an exact.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Uh, she's like a tunnel she doesn't even have her
own which, yeah, there'sparallels and I've met people.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I've I've met people like her.
Sadly, I mean less uh, and I dohave something to say about her
.
But, um, you know you can seethis like conflict and and
obviously we know, no matter howmuch he gains the courage to
stand up for himself, it won'timprove his position in the
organization.
If anything, it will make theorganization defensive against

(51:49):
him but eventually leave him himout like that, like he's he's,
he's sooner going to be kickedout because it's an inherently
very racist.
You know, you have this likeghostly white founder who, uh,
idealizes these like, uh,colonial sort of aesthetics and

(52:13):
and they, they treat him likehe's a piece of property and
it's, it was just so.
But like seeing that conflictthere, I was like I couldn't
help but feel for him and like,from there moving on, and he had
his, he had, he had his moments.
You know he takes these breaksto enjoy the good parts and at

(52:39):
the end, with the but I feellike the conflict is what
motivates a lot of his anger andthat, yes, for sure I know my
absolute.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, my absolute favorite moment was when he
snapped on the use of the wordsHis famous devour feculence.
It was the best.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
And especially they were criticizing him for being
well-spoken, which speaks toalso the naive sort of barbaric
mentality of the higher-ups.
Speaking down to this clearlywell-spoken black man, who does

(53:23):
his job to a T unquestioninglyshows up, shows up, he's at like
when he set down the paper infront of devon and just ran out
the room like, yes, every, everyuh staff member and seer member
knows like there have beenmoments where you had to kind of
like you know, you're like if Iwas um auditing someone uh

(53:46):
thursday before two and I had toend the session and it's maybe
115 and I get them to theexaminer.
And then I'm like, thanks, yeah, I'll see you later.
And I just have to raceupstairs to do the folder work
and all this stuff just to getthe statistics like.
And they still, even then, likehad no respect for him but him

(54:11):
standing up for himself.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
I was like, yeah, Because I want him to leave.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I want him to get out , I want him to have his own
life, and it's been reallyinteresting seeing people hate
him Because I was like theydon't know, they don't
understand.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
No, they don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
They haven't walked in his shoes.
No, they don't understand, theydon't know, they haven't walked
in his shoes.
No, and even even natalie, whois like uh on on her face, an
imposing figure, and I've knownpeople exactly like her who have
this sort of like you knowsmile on their face when they're
delivering, like they'reignoring you entirely, they're

(54:52):
just seeing through you.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
And when she's receiving, she's like the
founders are speaking, and youcan like see this, like the
suppressed dread and fear on herface, and her eyes almost water
up.
I mean, it was just like she'sa fantastic actress 100% and
like, like, I mean mean just somany things about this show.
I, I was just like I was likewriting things down.

(55:17):
I was like man, I gotta make avideo about this.
But I was like yes, um, therewere.
There's certain things, I thinkI also um, maybe maybe uh
associated that weren't maybeintended, you know, like the
wellness room.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Which, like I thought of as as sort of like mental
and emotional rewards forloyalty.
You know telling when something, someone, something like that
they're willing to accept astruth that validates their
endless work, or upstat rewards,so to speak.

(56:00):
These aren't actual rewards,but because your activities are
so restricted and because yourability to, ability to like kind
of roam freely and live anormal life is so like, uh,
maintained and restricted,you're allowed to, you know

(56:20):
you're, you're let out into theyard, so to speak to run around,
yeah, no that, yeah, thatcapacity to even just mentally
have a moment to breathe.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
I mean, you remind me of how many times Mark and I
have joked about oh good thingwe escaped when we did, because
they were adding a Starbucksdown the road.
And if we would have been ableto sneak to Starbucks, we
might've lasted.
You know, it might've just keptthat equilibrium as whacked out
as it was.

(56:49):
It might've just kept it incheck just a little bit longer.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
So thank goodness we got out before that happened
yeah, and I don't want to givethem any ideas because they
won't follow them.
But right because they theyinvolve uh, money going to the
well-being of the members andnot david miscavige, but uh,
bread and circuses is like avery common like concept of of

(57:17):
rewarding people who like, if,if you have like, like like, uh,
you know, roman dictators,roman emperors would just like
let people have the Colosseumand they would give people bread
, they would give them somethingto kind of distract them and

(57:42):
let them kind of vent theiremotional repression from having
otherwise terrible lives.
And the more you take away frompeople, the more agitated
they're going to feel.
I mean, you know, scientologywould have been, I mean should,
would, it could have.
Uh, you can't really undo allof that without a massive

(58:06):
restructuring and davidmiscavige in prison.
But I think they rob themselvesof so much credibility because
of their unwillingness to not beentitled to everything that
they want.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
And Lumen, does you know?
I mean, they're synonymousorganizations really Like.
The only difference is likeLumen seems to be much better
with their money.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
And you know they're willing to do these small things
to control, becauseeverything's an experiment Now
and I'd honestly say I'd respectthe founders there because they
were actually doing experiments.
I mean, I don't respect in thisuniverse, obviously they're

(59:00):
very bad people, but I respectthem more than LRH, because LRH
at least was like I've done allthe research.
It's in this book where Iramble for 300 pages.
I won't actually show you anytests, any logs, uh, any papers,
anything but just trust me, Idid all the work and like it's
trying to evolve.
But scientology is like thisperfect, uh ecosystem where

(59:25):
absolutes are unattainable butalso the e -meter is perfect and
also the tech is perfect Likeyeah, and and truly from.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
from the thousands of Hubbard documents that I went
through, the only research hedid was I know what's wrong with
this person it is.
He needs to do the purificationrundown.
Prove that that's.
You know, that was the reality.
Or um, I remember one timeShelly Miscavige telling me that
the way the asthma allergyrundown was developed was

(59:56):
because there was scent inHubbard's shirt and he figured
out that he that's what it wasand that that's the only
research.
Him saying this is what's wrong.
Fix it by doing X, y and Z.
No, no medical research.
No, nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
It's funny that.
It's funny that you bring thatup.
The asthma and allergy rundownis almost never recommended
these days right.
Because if an auditor does itit's because it's Thursday
before two and he can't finishthe course he's on and the
asthma and allergy rundowncourse can be done in a little
under like like three to four,maybe six hours at max if you're

(01:00:36):
slow, but like you get there,Meaning to train to complete the
course, yeah.
Yeah, to train somebody to dothe course to deliver the
procedure, and I was one ofthose people and what's funny is
the one time I ever deliveredit on someone back at back in
Atlanta.
And what's funny is the onetime I ever delivered it on
someone back at back in Atlanta.
And I talk about this becauseit's so funny and I had to

(01:00:59):
document it because I was stillin Scientology when I found this
, but I did it on this guy andhe's like oh wow, no, that's,
that's crazy, at least mindblowing wins.
Less than a month later, he'sposting on Facebook.
Anyone have any great naturalremedies for allergies?

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Allergies are really flaring up and I'm like and, of
course, for anyone watching theend phenomena of the allergy
asthma rundown is that you nolonger have allergies and asthma
right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
So, yeah, it's supposed to be completely gone,
completely handled.
Everything was checked out,totally standard, and so I had
to screenshot this man's.
Facebook post and put it in hisfolder, and I ended up doing a
bunch of auditing on him laterand I'm sure he's still getting
the same auditing, because somepeople just endlessly same
auditing.
Because some people justendlessly, endlessly get cs'd

(01:01:58):
for more and more like like theyget um, more technical
estimates where the cs will belike well, actually, I think you
haven't really said what wewant you to say, so we're just
going to put you in here andpeople use it as like therapy,
but it's excruciatinglyexpensive, right, so it's.
It never really has the sameeffect because you're kind of
just leading the people to theirown, you know, their own

(01:02:25):
solutions instead of actuallyproviding them like
evidence-based help.
Right, that's funny, youmentioned you mentioned also uh
uh, shelly miscavige, because Ican't say that there's like a
direct parallel, especially inthe relationship that they had,
but gemma was giving very muchshelllly Miscavige vibes.

(01:02:52):
Obviously, I don't think, Ithink it's more so like the
concept of being able to justdisappear someone and control
the story Like she died.
Oh, don't ask about her at all,but actually she's in the
basement and she's doing thingsyou know know where.

(01:03:13):
No one can know her real name,no one can speak to her, no one
can.
Um, you know she's doing somemysterious, she's being like
tested on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Obviously this is in lumen interesting, yeah, no I
don't even know I'm I'm reallyglad you brought that up because
I had not thought about theGemma situation in that context.
But you're right, and even themind numbing of like Shelly was
a very high profile executiveEverybody.
She was at every meeting DavidMiscavige ever had, so the to

(01:03:46):
have her just vanish and evenRight.
And even the control mechanismof you will not ask about
Shelley.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
It's just crazy to erase people and to control the
thoughts of these people whicheven in the context of, like the

(01:04:18):
tech, it's supposed to sort ofhave people suppress themselves.
But he's gone out of his way touse this technology, the
writings of hubbard etc.
To kind of accomplish his ownside goals.
And I mean every story I'veheard about from everyone who's

(01:04:39):
met this man said he was veryviolent.
And I think violence,especially physical violence,
can create a stronger resistanceto it, ricochets down the chain
of command.
You know the people who arebeing hit by him are going to be

(01:05:01):
more severe on the peoplebeneath them and those people
are going to feel that severityand it's going to trickle down.
It's not going to necessarilytrickle down in violence because
the more people who are hurtlike if there's just one guy at
the top who's committing themost violence, you know it's and

(01:05:21):
controlling the narrative, he'snot beating the lawyers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
He's not beating random staff members in class
five orgs the normal churchesyou'd see on the street.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Right, he's only doing it in an environment where
he has complete control and hehas the security and the
isolation and the lack ofsupervision or lack of
government involvement oroversight or anything to get
away with it yeah, and that,that, that was uh, you know, and
when you're thinking about inseason two, uh, what was his

(01:05:58):
name?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
the big guy, the real big guy.
Yeah, beard, I can't likedrummond or something, mr
drummond yeah yeah, mr drummond,like when he's just like
looking at mark and beingdisrespected, he just he just
pops him right in the face andthen just starts beating the
shit out of him like he.
He is in a uh a building where,where he has no safety nets, he

(01:06:25):
has no um.
You know, there's such a a, a,a broad sort of power stacked
against him that he could gethis ass kicked and no one would.
It seems like they could justkill anyone they want and get
away with it as as, so long asthere are no cameras, there are
no microphones, you know, um andmore uh, obviously they say

(01:06:56):
there are no microphones andthey say there are no cameras,
but suddenly they have photo,they have videos, uh, of
everything, in every place andeverything, all these
conversations, all theseconversations, you know, and in
scientology, like no one isallowed to record, except for
scientology, right, every.

(01:07:17):
You know you leave your phone atthe door or you uh has to be
turned off, or you know, if yourecord anything, especially at
flag, let me tell you.
But there's a camera in everyroom, every auditing room.
So, um, at flag there's a.
There are these auditing rooms.
Where they're, they're indifferent sections.
There is a vip auditing section, which I think is hilarious

(01:07:39):
because there are literalpolicies against that vip
treatment.
But policy doesn't really matteranymore in scientology, no no,
for sure so like, uh, there arethese rooms and on this it
there's one super long hallwaythat has like 200 auditing rooms
in it.
It's like an l and with thatwithin that l there's like 200

(01:08:02):
rooms and and every single onehas a camera and it also has a
cable that you can connect thee-meter to.
So in the internship, which iswhere, once you've done all the
courses on how to audit someone,you actually are given people

(01:08:23):
to audit and you're kind ofwatched by the organization.
There's this thing in the in theback of the room, which is like
setups of e-meters and screenswhere you can just you have
certain rooms that are allocatedto you on the computer and you
can watch the session, and theseare including including the the

(01:08:45):
live reaction of the e-meter onfrom that station?
Yeah, which on an academic level.
This would make sense if it wasa fake session, but these are
real people and these are realuh, let's say uh, admissions.
These are real secrets thatthey're telling.
A lot of these people do notfinish the internship.
These are real secrets thatthey're telling A lot of these

(01:09:07):
people do not finish theinternship.
So when you're in there, it'skind of implied like every
secret you tell, everything yousay is um is going to be heard
and it's.
And when everybody goesdownstairs into the, the mess
hall at at dinnertime, they'regoing to talk about it, yeah,
and it's they they're gonna talkabout it.
Yeah, and it's, they're gonnatalk about you, um, you know,

(01:09:31):
there's just such a disconnectbetween I I I remember hearing
recently watching one of your uh, uh, one of your streams with
mark and um, he brought up agood point that was like you're
not, you don't have tv in theseo org and you don't, you're

(01:09:51):
not watching shows, you're notreading romance novels, so all
the drama that you get is justgossip and just like I know from
people's private auditingsessions.
It's insane, yeah yeah, theamount of people who are like
reading through pc folders andthey're just like, oh right,
this, right here, this circle inred, or sometimes it's just

(01:10:14):
like oh well, there's another,you know, whatever he's doing
this, I mean some of the thingsthat I've learned, a lot of
things I've heard, I, I, Icannot repeat because they are
very uh, uh, we could not postthis video, yeah, but uh, it's,

(01:10:36):
it's very, it just kind of allkind of hits you at once,
especially watching, like youknow, you asked, you asked you
know about the leaving processyeah
there is no, there is noguarantee of people who leave
like being able to easily.

(01:10:56):
And when there's this like,let's say, you have to leave for
some urgent reason, especiallythe seahorker, especially staff
I mean sea orc is like thehardest to leave and then staff
is, you know, a little less hard, and then public can basically
come and go as they please.
They'll get like a slap on thewrist or some reprimands,
depending on what cycles they'rein the middle of.

(01:11:19):
But yeah, uh, if you there, ifthere's any urgency, it's the
punishment for you.
Needing to leave faster is likeincreased, like it's we have to
keep you for longer because,like, why do you need to leave
so bad?
Well, like, well, you have tocancel these things.
You know a friend, a friend, aco, a guy I was on staff with,

(01:11:42):
um, his grandma was was dyingand she was in the hospital and
he, um, uh, guy named danielburns and he, he was like just
trying to see us up.
He's like I just, really, hewasn't even leaving staff, he
just wanted to go see his, hisdying grandma and she's like,
well, she's been in the hot, the, so, the, the deputy, uh, the

(01:12:05):
deputy executive director, a guynamed Dexter Manuel was like
well, she's been in the hospitalbefore.
It's like maybe this is okay,maybe we'll just finish up your
PC.
I was there, I had a freeschedule.
I could have taken her, takenthis PC free schedule.

(01:12:30):
I could have taken her takingthis, taking this pc, um uh.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
But instead they made him wait a couple days and she
did die.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
He was still well, he was still there and so then he
was able to go to the funeral.
Then it was like oh my goshtake a week, you know, go to the
funeral and it's like thesethings are the things that stuck
with me, because it's, it'sintentional infliction of mental
and emotional torture to anindividual to do that?
oh, I mean it's, and it it justmakes this um and it makes

(01:12:59):
things like severance soimportant, I think, as like a, a
like something to communicateto people in a maybe more
exaggerated way, right, I mean,if you really showed
Scientology's back end from likereal experiences, it would be
tremendously more like severe.

(01:13:20):
Yeah, but you know, to showpeople examples of of certain
ways that can invoke the sameemotions, I think is really
important and, uh, you know,like everyone should watch this
show.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely Awesome.
Well, we will wrap up for today, ian.
Thank you so much for sharingyour thoughts.
That was awesome.
And yes, definitely I'm goingto get you on with marks,
because we would have a lot offun conversations, for sure, and
of course, I will link to yourchannel and whatever other links

(01:13:57):
you'd like me to include withthis video.
And yes, we'll talk again soon.
Maybe we'll do a watch partyfor season three.
That'd be great.
Well, we'll talk again soon.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Maybe we'll do a watch party for season three?
That'd be great.
Well, thank you for having me.
I I uh love chatting with you,as always, and uh, yeah, till
next time yes, and thank you foreverything that you do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
We appreciate you appreciate you too.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu Xenu is myhomeboy and BFG branded mouse
pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts ofother stuff in there that helps
us to bring you new content ona regular basis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book Blown for Good Behind

(01:14:41):
the Iron Curtain of Scientologyin hardback, kindle and audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast and you can get that on
Apple, spotify or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you

(01:15:02):
can click on the subscribebutton right here here, or you
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

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Severance: Cults and Corporate Control - Severance & Scientology - #3

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Severance: Cults and Corporate Control - Severance & Scientology - #3