The Tragic Death of Stacy Moxon Meyer: Scientology's Dark Secret

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Twenty-five years ago, on June 25, 2000, Stacy Moxon Meyer took her own life at Scientology's secretive Gold Base in Gilman Hot Springs, California. She was just 20 years old. In this powerful and emotional conversation, Claire Headley is joined by former high-ranking Scientology executive Tom DeVocht to uncover the truth behind this tragedy and expose the organization's elaborate cover-up.

Claire and Tom take listeners deep inside the oppressive world of Scientology's Sea Organization, where Stacy had been separated from her husband for nearly two years, forced to work at a location so secretive her own spouse wasn't permitted to know where she was. The night before her death, Stacy had desperately sought permission to visit her husband in Los Angeles but was denied – a routine occurrence in an organization that systematically restricted members' movements and personal freedoms.

What followed was a calculated deception. Scientology officials, including Warren McShane (described by David Miscavige himself as "a professional liar"), concocted a story that Stacy had been electrocuted while chasing a squirrel into an electrical vault. Claire and Tom methodically dismantle this narrative using police reports and firsthand knowledge, revealing how statements to law enforcement changed throughout the day as the cover-up was coordinated.

Both hosts share their personal connections to the case – Claire was on the property that day and witnessed the aftermath, while Tom observed David Miscavige's cold reaction to the news while on a yacht trip. Their insider perspectives illuminate how Scientology's leadership, particularly David Miscavige, maintains absolute control over every aspect of the organization, from who could leave the property to how tragedies are hidden from public view.

This episode stands as a memorial to Stacy and a powerful indictment of the conditions that led to her death. Through their testimony, Claire and Tom ensure that Stacy's story won't be forgotten and continue their mission to expose the abuses that persist behind Scientology's walls to this day.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello and welcome back to Blown for Good
Scientology Exposed.
This is not our normallyscheduled programming, but we
have a very importantconversation to have for today.
As you can likely see, mywonderful husband, Mr Mark
Headley, is not with us today,but I will be joined by my good

(00:34):
friend, Tom DeVocht.
I'm going to bring Tom in.
Welcome, Tom, Thank you so muchfor being here.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes, so we have.
Today marks the 25thanniversary of the day that
Stacey Moxon Meyer took her life.
This for me and I'll let youweigh in, tom as well, but for
me this was one of the most ofall the abuse and all the things

(01:06):
we suffered through.
This was one of the the biggest, if not the biggest, tragedies
that impacted me personally.
I didn't know Stacey incrediblywell, but we'll get into the
details.
I did know her, and she wasjust 20 years old.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I did not know Stacy either andI wasn't there, but I was on
the other end of it when MissSavage heard about it, which
we'll get into.
Of course, my phone goes offFirst one.
Guys, I'll get it together.
But yeah, I saw how Miss Savagereacted to it and we'll get

(01:46):
into that later.
But yeah, tragic, completely.
Yeah, routine for ms scavengeuncovering it up, but yeah, yep,
exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Anyway, before we get into it, we'll give people a
few minutes to show up.
Tell us where they're joiningfrom.
Oh look, check this out, tomjackson hey you.
Jackson.
Jackson in the house.
If you're just joining us, feelfree to comment where you're
joining us from.
Oh, here we go.
Hot cross scones Hi, claire andTom from Brisbane, australia.

(02:17):
Cross cones.
Oh, we did that one.
Be a little patient with me,folks.
This is the first time I'mdoing a live by myself without
my wonderful husband who I leanon for everything.

(02:39):
So there you have it.
Okay, here we go.
We'll do run through a few morehere.
Holly, hello from Akron, ohio.
Pete Jensen, tv joining fromNYC.
Welcome, jacob Harkey.
Welcome from Monrovia,california.
Awesome, thank you for beinghere, jacob.
Steve from Cleveland, ohio.

(03:02):
Steve from Cleveland, ohio.
Monkey Paws, hi from CentralVictoria, australia.
There you go.
Freddy Frog, hello fromNewcastle, uk.
Can't sleep, oof, I know thatfeeling.
Michael Mallon, hey from LosAngeles.

(03:23):
Hey, michael, thanks for beinghere.
All right, so let's see, we'rea few minutes in, yep.
Anyway, tom, I'm going to linkto your sub stack.
I'm so grateful to have yourvoice back in the exposing
Scientology community.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, glad to be here .

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yes, so, and again, I wish I could retire from this
someday.
But while Scientology is stillabusing people, that's not going
to be possible.
And while people still need toget out and start new lives,
also it's not going to bepossible.
So here we are, june 25, 2000,is the day that Stacey Moxon
Meyer, who was a member of theSea Organization and who worked

(04:19):
at the Scientology headquarterslocated in Gilman Hot Springs,
california, very sadly andtragically took her life.
California very sadly andtragically took her life.
It was absolutely preventableand Scientology covered it up.
And we, tom and I, are going tocover the details of exactly
the players involved who, who,the, the factors involved, what

(04:41):
led up to this and then how thiswas covered up, and the factors
involved, what led up to thisand then how this was covered up
, and speculate on why thiswould be covered up.
Of course, you know, betweenyou and I, tom, we can speak
with a reasonable knowledge asto why that that took place, but
anyway, we'll get into this.
So I'm going to pull up theslides here.

(05:02):
Let's see here.
Okay, there we go.
This is Stacy Moxon Meyer.
Um, she came to the uhScientology headquarters when
she was about um 17, 17 or 18years old.

(05:23):
Um, I don't have the exact.
Uh, I know that she was born in1979 and uh, december, I
believe, and she she took herlife in June 2000.
Um, she joined the Sea Org, Ibelieve, at the age of 16.
And again, we'll go through thedates and so forth.

(05:44):
But very shortly after joiningthe Sea Org, she married Derek
Meyer, who was also at least asecond generation Scientologist,
who was he worked in LosAngeles.
They both worked in Los Angeles.

(06:11):
Um, in towards the end of 1997,stacy was moved to um the gold
base or whatever, whatever theheadquarters.
Originally she was a traineefor religious technology center,
um, but so again, just let'sjust factor in, this is 1997.
She is, by that time, 18 time,18, 17, 18 years old.
Um, she's been married to Derekfor a year or two and now she's

(06:35):
moved to a location that Derekdoes not know the location of
and is not allowed to know thelocation of, and from that point
forward it's not even that faraway.
Right exactly Hour and a half,right Two hours, yeah, yeah.
And from that point forward shethe struggle became seeing her

(06:57):
husband which, Tom, what I know,I know, in that life that was
not uncommon and it was evenactually commonplace or even
normal.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, probably more normal than not.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Right, I was thinking about our conversation before
doing this.
How many years were youpositioned at a completely
different location at?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
a completely different location.
We were Jenny and I, weremarried 19 years and I think
together probably a total a dayat a time for two years, maybe
max out of that 19.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
That was totally normal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But in this case we're talkingabout Stacy as a teenager, right
, you know?
Yeah, so, and before we getinto the details of Stacy and
what happened that fateful day,we're going to talk about some

(07:58):
of the key players involved inthis.
So this is Stacy's father,kendrick, or Ken or Rick Moxon.
Um, and this I'll I've includedthe link to this, these slides,
here.
This is from my Grinder's blog,um, kendrick, kendrick, rick

(08:18):
Moxon is an OT8 Scientologistand an in-house lawyer for
Scientology who maintains anoffice within the Office of
Special Affairs International,the 10th floor of the HGB.
He has been an operativecarrying out Scientology fair
game activities since themid-1970s and continues to this
day.
So, for context of what we'retalking about here, kendrick

(08:43):
Moxon was already doingscientology's dirty work before
stacy was ever born.
What have you what?
What comments do you have aboutmoxon, tom?

Speaker 2 (08:53):
I don't know him that well.
Um, I've met him a couple times.
I again later in the programI'll tell you a conversation I
had with him about his daughterand the fact that she left a
note.
But not a good guy, not evenslightly, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I never met him personally either.
He did the first day of Mark'sdeposition during our lawsuit
that we we sued Scientology forfor, uh, labor law violations,
um, and a number of other causesof action, including forced
abortion.

(09:34):
Uh, kendrick Moxon did thefirst day of deposition of Mark
and it was absolutely brutal andhorrendous, like just awful.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, I'll just add in my conversation with him,
skipping a little ahead, claire,but to give you an idea who the
guy is, I did have a she calledme when I was dealing with
Daniel.
I can't remember his name.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Montalvo.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Montalvo.
Thank you, yeah, who had left?
The church and come to me'tremember his name Montalvo
Montalvo, thank you yeah who hadleft the church and come to me.
I knew his parents and I had ahe had escaped and was pursued
very aggressively.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I know we were involved in that too at the time
that was back in 2010.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
That's exactly right.
But Ken ended up, or Kendrickor Rick ended up, getting on the
phone with me about Daniel andhe was, you know, threatening me
and very dark guy, and Ibrought up his daughter and the
fact that she left a note andsaid I don't know if you know
this, but there was a probably Idon't know three, four, five

(10:43):
seconds of of delay and then hewent right back into the attack
and then it made me wonder is hethat cold and and probably, you
know, you think about thethings he's done?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
probably so, but that's his daughter, you know, I
know I know, and, and frankly Iknow, and frankly, as as a
parent now I have three boys.
You have a daughter like that's.
That's for me personally, why Ifelt so strongly.
We need to note this day and onin memory of Stacy and the

(11:21):
beautiful person that she was.
Let her not be forgotten.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, and I'd like to believe in, in, in to some
degree.
Do believe that.
You know, I don't know Again, Idon't know Rick Boston, but
hopefully he as a dad he feltthe pain.
I know Miscavige did not and Iknow he works for Miscavige and
has probably sold his soul tohim.
But yeah, the way it washandled, unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, unreal, absolutely Okay.
On to our next slide here.
So Carla Moxon that's Stacy'smother.
I missed a slide here.
Hold on, sorry, it's okay.

(12:28):
Yeah, here we go.
So the slide that I'm missinghere is simply to highlight the
fact that both Kendrick Moxonand Carla were both named as
unindicted co-conspirators inthe largest infiltration of the
US government during the late70s, when the FBI raided
multiple Scientology locations.
Both parents were named asunindicted co-conspirators.
Personally, I think that's animportant part of understanding
how the hell something like thiscould happen yeah who they are
that's right, yeah, and this oneis uh.

(12:49):
Again, these are images from anarticle on mike rinder's blog
that I linked to in the videodescription.
But this is obviously covering.
Let's see.
It says thereafter, herman leftthe building and waited in a
car in the driveway of themuseum with Don Alverzo and
Carla Moxon, the assistantguardian communicator secretary

(13:11):
in the District of Columbia.
Both of Stacy's parents weredoing criminal dirty work for
Scientology before she was evereven born.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
And these are the things we know about by the way,
that's right, exactly right.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly right, yeah, yeah,
exactly Okay.
This person.
For anyone tuning in whodoesn't know who this person is,
this is Warren McShane and Tom.
You and I both have extensiveexperience with this person, not
even going to call him a man.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
What do you remember about Warren McShane?
Just a cold-hearted executionerfor Miscavige.
You know another soullessindividual who did the dirty
work.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yep.
And well, the next slide willbe Warren's kind of paragraph
from Wikipedia, but I will say Idon't know about you, tom.
Paragraph from Wikipedia, but Iwill say I don't know about you
, tom.
I personally heard DavidMiscavige say and he said to me
in multiple meetings that theonly reason he kept Warren
McShane around is because he's aprofessional liar.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Right, I heard that too.
Yeah, for sure, yep, yeah, andotherwise he refers, but that's
typical of mcavage and and yeah,boy, I could go off in a whole
different direction, but yes,that's exactly right you're
welcome to if you'd like, youdon't?
want me to?
Um, no, that's exactly right.
I heard the same from him, um,and that he was an asphalt layer

(14:59):
or something.
I believe was his professionaljob before the church or
something.
And yes, that's what he shouldbe doing.
And you know all the all thenormal.
Meanwhile he layer or something.
I believe it was hisprofessional job before the
church or something, and that'swhat he should be doing.
And you know all the all thenormal.
Meanwhile he was keeping themaround and using them to do his
dirty work and would blame himif anything went wrong.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
But that's Miscavige.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yep and last I knew, Warren McShane for years has
been David Miscavige's deputyfor legal affairs and directly
supervises and runs the Officeof Special Affairs, especially
as it relates to legal andanyone speaking publicly against

(15:41):
Scientology, which is a littleprogram right now.
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, probably Hi, warren yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Anyway, the last time I saw saw Warren McShane side
story was again during ourlawsuit.
On my first day of deposition Iwent in and there was a whole
panel of Sea Org members in theroom doing the deposition, with
Mark Marmoreau, who was theattorney at the time, who later

(16:14):
became a Supreme Court judge,and Warren McShane was in the
room for the entire day ofdeposition and he did not enjoy
that.
At one point they Mark Marmore,asked me they would.
They were essentially trying touse the argument that, oh well,

(16:37):
I was a minister because I wastrained as an auditor.
And so at one point MarkMarmoro said well, isn't it true
, as a matter of fact, that youaudited Mr Warren McShane here?
And I said absolutely not,that's not true.
But yes, I was ordered to putWarren McShane on the e-meter by

(17:01):
David Miscavige because he hasa bad habit of looking at
X-rated images on the internet.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
You told him that right there Nice.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah, he was in the room, Anyway, not a nice
person, but here getting on toand not for that reason either,
by the way.
Whatever to each their own hiscrimes, and coverup for
Scientology is what I'mspecifically talking about.
So again, this is Warren'ssummary from Wikipedia.
Mcshane joined Scientology in1973, held numerous positions in

(17:39):
Scientology, including workingin the Guardian's office and
holding the position ofassistant guardian for
intelligence in New York.
So again, for anyone watching,guardian's office was the
earlier version of Office ofSpecial Affairs same book,
different cover.
They just renamed it.
After getting raided by the FBIIn 1983, he joined Religious

(18:05):
Technology Center.
So, tom, let me pick yourbrains on this.
I was looking at this.
Warren McShane, I think, is oneof the only people that
survived David Miscavige'stakeover in 19.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
In 1983?
You cut out for a second.
What did he say?
Oh, I can't hear you.
Can anybody hear Claire?
Can you hear me Touching,touching?

(18:46):
I don't hear anything.
I can hear you.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
You can hear me.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh, there we go Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
There we go, perfect.
Okay, like I said, good thing Igave that warning.
I was trying to say that, to myknowledge, warren McShane is
one of the few people, maybeeven only two or three that were
in Hold on.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Okay, okay, uh, that was, that was in religious
technology center before davidmiscavige took over.
Yeah, right, right, that that's, that's.
Uh, I don't know why I hearmyself but, um, yeah, no, that's
.
I think that's totally true.
I don't know of anybody elseactually, um, and there's got to
be a story behind that.
There's some reason behind that, you know what I mean, some
real good reason that would beinteresting to find out, but

(19:47):
that that's totally accurate.
I don't know who's held on thatlong yeah, and maybe it's a
sign of just how wicked the guyis.
you know that he can still bethere with Miscavige Same with
Markson, actually and he's beenaround forever too right.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Either that or they've done, and truly I think
this is probably more accurateand potentially accurate for
Marty too.
Miscavige had the goods on them.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
He had.
He put them up to somethingthat they did.
That's much worse than evenwhat we're talking about yep and
you can hold it over him andthat's the only way.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think anybody could suck up to the guy for that
long yeah, yeah, because, if youthink about it, many other at
the time key players, like vickyasneran, jesse prince um god,
who else?
There's a whole long list ofthem.
David miscavige got rid of allof them because, because they

(20:45):
were not 100 loyal to him, he,he absolutely has constructed
the existing organization andcontrol so that it's him, and
him alone who has completesay-so over everything that
happens right yeah completelyand it'll use you to the point
that you agree to be used.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
And, and I think you know, people that leave have
left because they couldn't takeit anymore, right?
Um, you know, it was too, too,too much, um, or uh, he got rid
of them for not cooperating orwhatever butting heads.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
But anybody that's still there this whole time.
There's something seriouslywrong with those people.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
And I don't mean that , you know, some of them are
trapped.
But Warren McShane Boxon, no,these are people who have done
very bad things.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Which we probably know half of.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Exactly, Maybe not even half, I don't think, you
know like anyway, yeah, Anyway.
So again, Warren McShane wasdirectly involved in covering up
the awful events where Staceytook her own life on June 25th

(22:01):
2000.
So that's why he deservesspecial mention here, because he
lied to law enforcement andthis was one specific time that
I know of and we're going todocument.
So this is another person, KenHoden.
At the time he was in charge ofall public relations with

(22:23):
locals in Gilman, Hot Springs,Hemet, San Jacinto.
Do you have any comments aboutKen Hoden, Tom?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
thought um, um, you know on a personal level, but uh
, I remember mcavage talkingabout him too and just abusing
the crap out of the guy over thefact that he couldn't close
down highway 79 right I believethere was a whole thing on there
and and he um went after kenlike wow man, but would continue

(22:53):
to use him to the degree hewould you, you know, be used to
do his dirty work.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, and you know?
Just crazy side comment that Ithink illustrates the nature of
the absolute insane insanity ofthe life we lived in the C
organization.
Do you know that Ken Hoden hasa kid?

Speaker 2 (23:13):
No.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, and his wife sadly died of cancer in los
angeles in the early 90s.
Anyway, again, it's just crazyto me because even though we
were co-workers, we were for allintents and purposes strangers,
not only because of the workenvironment we lived and worked

(23:34):
in, but also because of thesnitch culture, like there was
no such thing as friends in theCR grade.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Exactly, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, anyway.
So Ken Hoden was also therethat day and lied to law
enforcement.
We'll, but we'll get to that,okay, so this is a map of the
headquarters that we're talkingabout.
Tom, you worked there for whatyears?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I was there in 83.
I arrived late 83 until about86 or 87.
Then I left and then I cameback in 2001.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yes 2005.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Okay, yeah, and I was the worst period oh, actually
not the worst period, I think itgot worse after that, but
pretty bad period yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
No, I agree, I again.
I.
I thought it couldn't get muchworse when I was there.
Yeah, Right.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
We left about the same time right.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, I was there, worked here, with the exception
of a year in Clearwater, florida, but for the majority of 1991,
until the day I escaped, whichwas January 24th 2005.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, you were there through a lot more than I was.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, yeah, but I remember, I remember you very
well during those awful years.
I remember you very well duringthose awful years.
Okay, so this map is fromMark's book Blown for Good
Behind the Iron Curtain ofScientology, and the red circle
is around a building known asStudio 2, which was a sound

(25:11):
recording studio, somewhat likeup on the hill in a more remote
part of the property.
Would you agree with that, tom?
yeah, totally yeah, and theelectrical vault that we're
going to be talking about isright around this building, um,
so this is the same image, justin google maps.

(25:36):
Okay, so we're going to get tothis.
I'm going to take this off fora minute so we can just talk
about the.
So again, for context, it wasvery.
The schedule at the propertywas that Sunday morning was the
time when staff would have to dotheir laundry, and they would

(26:00):
generally stay home just forthose two or three hours and
then be bused in at lunchtime.
That's fair, right, tom.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Okay, so, leading up to what again, what we're going
to talk about, from June, whathappened on June 25, 2000.
Conditions at the base had beengetting significantly worse.
David Miscavige had assignedevery organization on that

(26:30):
property, which was fiveorganizations in total, lower
conditions, which meant toStacey that it was becoming
harder and harder and harder forher to go to Los Angeles to see
her husband.
And factor in it now beenalmost two years that since she

(26:50):
had been even living with herhusband, if she saw him for two
hours on a Sunday morning, thatwas a good week.
In order for her to go to seeher husband, she had to write a
CSW, completed staff work andget that approved.
By what do you say, tom?

(27:10):
Probably like six people,including.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, probably in the end, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, including it had to be signed off by
Religious Technology Center.
Specifically, in ReligiousTechnology Center it had to be
approved by a woman by the nameof Deborah Friedman who was the
Inspector General.
Master at Arms was her titleand she had to approve anybody

(27:36):
leaving that property.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Amazing.
So um yeah, it was becomingready and I and I again I got
there after.
But but you could see theconditions are from talking to
you and people involved at thetime the conditions were already
bad enough.
I mean, when I got there afterthe fact there was no, I don't

(28:01):
think they were even having CSTanymore.
You had, you know, the canteenwas selling individual
cigarettes.
Nobody was getting paid.
I mean, obviously the situationwas really bad and tough.
You're in a prison camp, right?
So imagine the stress on thisindividual, you know, relatively
newly married and everythingelse.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's intense and not even 21 years old yet, right,
and yeah, like I don't think Idon't know someone who's ever
been in Supermax, but to me,having from what I've,
everything I've read aboutsupermax, the conditions at this

(28:44):
property were far worse thansupermax so I don't know what
supermax is supermax, prison,super, oh, okay yeah, I would
imagine.
You can't even make a phonecall.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
You can't even make a phone call.
If you wanted to compare to aprison, I would.
I would say that it's worthworse than prison because you're
not in prison, but you're inprison and you're being mentally
screwed with and you're being,you know, physically.
Yeah, worse, I'm sure.
Yeah, because you don't realizeit, or shouldn't be that way,
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, exactly.
And so again, leading up to theevents where, very sadly and
tragically, stacey was to be, inmy opinion, forced into this
position of feeling that she hadno other options than to take
her own life.
To me, 100%, this is falseimprisonment.

(29:47):
That's how I feel about it.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Totally.
It's not even a feeling, it's afact.
Right Document.
I mean, there's so many peoplethat were there that have
covered it.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, in fact in our lawsuit, even though we lost in
the final ruling, the judge saidhad we pursued other causes of
action, including falseimprisonment, we might have
fared differently.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And they're coming, it's coming.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, exactly.
So the night before Saturday.
So the night before SaturdayJune 24th was and, to be fair, I
don't even know how many timesStacey had tried to go, like how
many Saturday nights hadpreceded this, but this

(30:32):
particular Saturday night shewas desperately trying to get
approval to go visit her husbandand her father, kendrick Moxon.
That Sunday morning, and thepeople that told her no was
Brandon Pearson, annie Tidman,who was the head of Stacey's

(30:54):
organization at that time, cmoGold.
Stacey was in the householdunit, which meant that she did
all of the grounds andmaintenance for Bonney View, LA
Hubbard's multimillion-dollarmansion for when he's never
coming back, yeah, and alsoDeborah Friedman from Religious

(31:17):
Technology Center.
All of those three people wereinvolved in telling Stacey no,
you cannot leave.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
You can't, I'll jump in here.
Yeah, and I bet you.
None of them had theauthorization to say yes.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Guaranteed they're ready.
The order came down forMiscavige Nope, nobody leaves
for any reason.
And so those people, as much asthey probably wanted to approve
it, they couldn't.
That's right, they just didn'thave the authorization to do it.
That's the control Miscavigehad from day one.
I mean, he would say this isthe way it is, and all the

(31:55):
people who might have been ableto approve or say yeah, go ahead
with it, could not do it orthey'd be in trouble.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
That's right, exactly .
And if they wouldn't enforcehis orders, then they get busted
and someone else gets broughtin who will enforce the orders?
Yeah, exactly, I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
I remember Annie Tidman and all the people you
know those people there.
I remember Annie Tidman and allthe people you know those
people they're.
Guaranteed Most of them wouldhave said, yeah, do it.
They would have loved to do it.
You know, take the time off orgo see somebody.
So it isn't.
It's very much controlled byDavid Miscavige.
It is not a bunch of bad peopleyes, they're.

(32:34):
You know, we were all under theinfluence at one point in time.
But once he sets that order,you're done Right.
You know it's, it's over, youdo.
You can't make a decision foryourself or for anybody else.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yep, yep, you're absolutely right.
Um and yes, also again forcontext of how bad things we're
getting from, at least fromNovember 99 up until well into
2000.
David and Shelley Miscavige hadbeen spending most of their

(33:07):
time in Clearwater, florida,very, very, very involved in the
Lisa McPherson case.
You want to talk about that,tom?

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Well, he was not just involved in Lisa McPherson case
, he created the Lisa McPhersoncase.
You want to talk about that,tom?
No, he was not just involved inthe Lisa McPherson case, he
created the Lisa McPherson case.
I mean, and I think we'd go offon an entirely different story
with the Lisa McPherson case butI will tell you, he personally
case supervised the case.
He personally watched everyvideo and session of Lisa
McPherson.
He personally declared herclear, so forth, and then when

(33:39):
she did her thing and went typethree, they locked her up in a
room and that was controlled byMiscavige, with daily reports
and people on it full time.
I ran the base and I couldn'teven have the information on it.
My own security PKk would nottell me what was going on.
It was going straight towardsyou see nothing.

(34:00):
I could know nothing, right um,until she died.
And then I had to callmishavage and tell him yeah, but
um, but uh, again, justcompletely controlled by him and
in caused it.
But if you go now back toStacey and I've written about

(34:20):
this, but the cover-up that hewent through with the Lisa
McPherson case, exactly the sameHide everything, get rid of the
people, get rid of the notesdestroy everything and it's
criminal beyond imagination.
Yeah, bad enough in states he'sworse than Lisa because he

(34:42):
actually had, I believe, hadsomething to do with causing her
death, but just absolutelycriminal that he you know.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, well, we can cover Lisa McPherson in another
episode if you'd like.
That was before I, I, I knewabout it after the fact, but
either way, the point is I don'tthink any wrongful death in
scientology should be forgotten.
I just I again.
I this one I feel so stronglyabout in stacy's case because

(35:10):
she was so young.
Yep, I mean, I don't want to gettoo deep in the emotions of it
because, like it was absolutelyavoidable and absolutely Stacey
was driven to this and it's atragedy that Kendrick Moxon
should literally anyway.

(35:31):
Whatever, we'll keep going,okay, um, we'll keep going, um,
okay.
So so again, she was trying togo to LA to see her husband,
derek, and her father, kendrickMoxon, that Saturday night and
it was disapproved.
The next day um was Sunday, somajority of the staff did not

(35:52):
have to show up and get busedinto the property until noon.
So it was rare to see anybodyat that property on Sunday
morning, or just a handful ofsupport staff and people doing
amends or lower conditions orthe people who were restricted

(36:13):
to the property and not evenallowed to go home.
Do you think that's fair to say, tom?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I think that's fair to say.
You have a theory on this right.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I do.
So Stacey came in.
Actually, anyway, there's anumber of different people you
and I have both talked to aboutthe events that happened that
day, but Stacey went into workearly and also too, for context,

(36:41):
I think it's important to coverthat Stacey was part of the
electrical team.
So any member of the Corganization has what's called
WQSB, like aside from and the,the job that they're assigned to
do on renos renovations days,for example, they would be on a

(37:03):
specific team.
So there's like the drywallpeople and the, whatever I don't
even remember all the differentthe, the grounds people, and
you know.
So, like I used to prune roseson Saturdays with Mariette
Lindstein.
Anyway, the point being, whichis important and significant,

(37:25):
Stacey was on the electricalteam and she had been on that
team for at least three or fourmonths from again, the several
different people I've talked towho were friends with her.
So just pause and let that setin for a minute.
You have a 19 year old woman,girl working on electrical like.

(37:48):
We're not talking plugging inlight bulbs, we're talking like
what tom?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
like running wire in buildings and yeah, stuff you
don't want to do unless you'retrained in electrical, and
certainly not vaults like youwent to.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Right, and they're yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
No, I'm sorry, Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
They had no training, none whatsoever, doing the work
of trained, certifiedelectricians.
You had kids basically doingelectrical work.
All of that to say, stacy wasvery familiar with these vaults
at this property, in fact, umthey she had been working on a

(38:32):
project with the wholeelectrical team to remove these
vaults.
There were only two of themleft at this time.
So again, she comes in earlySunday morning, there's barely
anybody there, as I showed inthe map.
She goes up to a remote part ofthe property and, like I said,

(38:57):
tragically felt she had no otheroption than to take her own
life.
I personally think that herplan was to escape that day.
That's absolutely what I think.
Knowing everything that camenext, I think that she was
planning to escape and thatSaturday night, when she was

(39:18):
told no, you're not going, shedecided what she was going to do
.
Oh, you mean?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
if she was allowed to go, she would have not come
back, right?
I think that's probablyaccurate, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I mean of course.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
And that's why Miss Cabbage had everybody locked up,
because he knew people weretrying to leave, right, so they
couldn't leave.
You know, that was his bigthing is he had to lock
everybody down.
Just adding to the to thestress, I could see station he
was under, he had to lockeverybody up and that was it.
Nobody could leave, nobodycould, you know, escape.
Because he was afraid.

(39:49):
And that's the thing he kepttelling me was he was afraid
people would talk badly abouthim if they left the base.
They're all sps.
And I mean I'm hearing you knowI'm back in clearwater during
all this time period and I'mhearing how the entire base
there, which would include you,claire and stacy and everybody
there, 98 of them are sps andthey've all been shipped there

(40:14):
purposely to get to miscavigeand and this is him telling me
they said and showing and theyhonestly believed it had been
loaded up with SPs.
And now, if you take it fromhis point of view and
Scientology's point of view, andactual suppressives and stuff
like that, you, yeah, you wouldlock them up and treat them

(40:36):
terribly.
Yeah, you would lock them upand treat them terribly.

(41:02):
You know, you put it alltogether and you see him
establish his view of thesepeople and warren and the other
guy, they don't see people, theydon't.
It's a?
Um, it's terrible, right, Imean horrifying.
But, anyway, sorry I went off ona tangent.
No, it's okay, You're right,and you're right.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's the antithesis of the glossy facade that
Scientology presents to theworld at large, trying to
present like, oh, we're areligion, we're a you know.
No, no, this is a dangerous andabusive cult with a psychopath
megalomaniac at the head,controlling absolutely every

(41:46):
last thing.
Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, so shewas.
So stacy went in early, umearlier than% of the staff that
worked at that property.
She was not there by accident.
She was not there by whim.
She was not there chasing asquirrel or scared for the.

(42:10):
You know what happens tosquirrels when they get in the
vaults.
We'll get to that, Anyway.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
So how did she they get in the vaults?
We'll get to that, um anyway.
So how did she end up in thevault, I mean, I mean, how would
my question that wasn't her jobright?
Her full-time position or post?

Speaker 1 (42:30):
not.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Not her full-time position, no, but she worked as
a no she she was the maintenanceperson like now I'm filling in
the gaps, sorry, no, it's okay,she did grounds maintenance for
L.
Ron.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Hubbard's home.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Right, so she's doing that.
She has no reason to be in anelectrical vault, right?

Speaker 1 (42:48):
No, right, she did not.
And around 1130 is what Iremember, around 1130 is what I
remember I had I would.
Mark and I were living onSublet Road at the time, which
was very close, just right offthat property, and Anka Sutter

(43:09):
is the person who ran internalsecurity in Religious Technology
Center, so she supervisedsecurity at the base and was
involved in all manner ofinternal security matters.
She received a phone call fromgold security and what she told
me was that, uh, cause, I wokeup when she was called in the

(43:32):
house that we shared and shetold me there's been a major
accident.
I was like uh, and that theentire power for the entire
property had gone out.
And what Anka said, which I havenot been able to verify as true
or false, is that when anelectrical incident of that
magnitude, um occurs, theelectric company automatically

(43:57):
calls nine one one.
So I and again I don't knowthat that's true or false I
believe it to be true because Ihighly doubt anyone on that
property would ever call 911, bymy own experiences when I
almost lost my leg and nobodycalled 911.
Right, anyway, but 911 had beencalled.

(44:23):
So Anka and I both went intothe property to find out what on
earth was going on.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Marion Powell is the person in Religious Technology
Center Another person I don'thave a picture of her, otherwise
I'd put her mug on this slideshow.
Recently I heard really Ithought that was marina pazotti.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Oh, maybe it is.
Oh, really, that's terrible.
Anyway, yeah, yeah, no, um, Imean, marion may have, but I
haven't I could be somebody elseyeah, um, marion is the one
that um first told.
First told me go interview the,the co-workers of stacy, and

(45:09):
tell them that there's been aterrible accident and that she,
uh, was trying to rescue asquirrel and fell in the vault.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
She told you about the squirrel.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yep, I took it at facevalue, not knowing anything, in
the flurry of what was going on,but the moment I started
talking with the people close toStacy, I very quickly realized
this was a complete falsehood.
Very quickly realized this wasa complete falsehood, like um

(45:43):
stacy's closest friend said.
I was really worried she wasgoing to do this and that, like
the moment I heard that thatstatement, I was like wait, what
?
What on earth is going on here?
Um, and of course, meanwhile,warren, warren McShane was
supervising like came in,figured out what was happening.
Again, warren McShane, whoworks directly for David

(46:04):
Miscavige.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
And he carefully controlled exactly who was going
to speak to the police officersthat responded to the scene.
The police officers thatresponded to the scene.
Jackson has told me he's talkedto some of the responding
people that were on site thatday and that they all said it
was absolutely one of the mosthorrific things they've ever

(46:29):
seen.
Completely, yeah, so.
So by around um one 30 thatSunday afternoon, uh, I I knew
that Marion was lying and thatStacy had taken her life.

(46:49):
Um later in that day, marion wastalking to another executive
and reference the fact that shehad found Stacy's note to
another executive and referencedthe fact that she had found
Stacy's note.
That was a note to her motherwith some of her most valued
just some personal belongings ofhers that she wanted her mother
to have.
All of that was completelycovered up by the Scientology

(47:13):
executives Warren McShane, kenHoden and also Warren's daughter
, carly McShane.
So, yeah, and and this lie wasalso told to her parents, to my

(47:33):
knowledge, by the way.
But then let's let's get toyour experience after that.
Speaking to ken moxon, as youreferenced earlier now, having
covered everything that thattook place that day that led to
Stacey feeling she had no otheroption being falsely imprisoned,
not allowed to see her husband.

(47:54):
She's 20 years old, not allowedto see her parents.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
She decided to take her life in the most gruesome
way imaginable, but I don't knowwhat else was available to her.
But yeah, so you want to knowwhere I was, what I was doing.
I was on the three wins withMiscavige and we were on.

(48:18):
I realized two weeks beforethis I think roughly two weeks
before this the Lisa McPhersoncase had been dropped.
The charges were dropped onMiscavige and on the church by
the state attorney.
So it was celebration time forMiscavige.
She was still into scuba divingat the time.
The maiden voyage event wascoming up or it just occurred or

(48:42):
something.
So it was off to the ship andluckily not so luckily I got
invited and was there and Iremember the calls coming in.
He was late, actually for crazy, but so I guess he got the call
in the morning it would havebeen a late morning, I think and

(49:04):
he was late for a yacht that wehe or I guess Janet Light had
booked for scuba diving.
And he came to it and he wasupset and Shelly told the story
that she'd committed suicide.
But Shelly knew she'd committedsuicide.
There was no question about it.

(49:26):
Somebody told them about thenote and so forth.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
I said the word sorry , okay, all right, it is what it
is Taking her own life yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah, so they knew this right from the get go and
you know it would have been got.
See, if I go back to the 911call Claire.
I don't think Jackson couldprobably confirm this, but I
don't think any system at goldis set up to call 9-1-1

(49:57):
automatically.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Right?
No, it was not.
It was definitely not.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
So my, my, my experience would be somebody
like Warren McShane would havebeen told immediately this is
the situation, this is what'shappened, and he would have come
up with the whole story.
And I don't know if it's him orsomebody or if it was
miscavaged directly, but youknow, okay, she was chasing a
squirrel in.
Go with it, run with it, youknow what I mean and hide

(50:23):
everything and don't let anybodybe interviewed.
That knew her, get everybodyaway, and it would have been
controlled like that to such anextent.
But to point to me is thatnumber one imagine another CEO

(50:44):
of any corporation.
You wouldn't have a situationlike this, but an accident like
that, or or if it was, you know,taking your own life, how did
you get to the top dog like that, right by phone calls so
urgently that you know this isum, it just tells, shows you the
level of control that this guyhad to have on everything.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
On everything, on everything, everything.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
This was not I did I and I've used this as an example
, but I mean this um, when Iwent to do building 50, the
renovations and this is in 2001and and uh uh, the birthing
buildings and so forth, therewere binders of recordings of

(51:30):
Miscavige saying you have to usethis type of doorknob and don't
use this type of grout on thetile, and the spacing of the
choice started to be 18 inches,not 12 inches.
I mean, the guy controlledeverything, everything Down to
do.
You have cigarettes to smoke?
No, sell them one cigarette ata time, out of a pack.

(51:52):
I guarantee you that would goback to Miscavige, right?
That type of control, yep.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
So just you know for the record.
So here's this type getting acall about this woman taking her
life and then his responseisn't it's so tragic.
His response is cover it all up, hide everything, get everybody

(52:24):
out of there, burn the note,whatever he told them to do with
it, and everybody cooperates,slewing with both hands and
going at it.
That was the scene and theamount of control that this guy
had.
And yeah, you go.
You know any one of the peoplethere could have said, oh wait a
minute, this is bullshit.

(52:44):
You know what I mean.
But after years of doing it andthat sort of thing, you don't.
And back to Moxon and Lyman yougo.
These are hardcore criminalpeople, just these hardcore
miscavige that that Executedthis plan and talked to the

(53:08):
police and and twisted it aroundand made it look like it wasn't
what it was to protect thechurch.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Right, Like to make the point.
Did you ever, while you were inthis organization, were you
ever asked to speak to lawenforcement?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
No, I did it, but no, but it was disrelated.
I yeah, no, you know, no, no,no, no.
And to make a point on that too, take Stacey 19, 18,.
Whenever she got in, a lot ofpeople were in there from
childbirth, practically, evenpeople who would come in
somewhat later.

(53:44):
You didn't know that it wasn'tokay and that you could pick up
the phone and call the police ifyou got hit.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Right and and to be fair we couldn't, we couldn't
actually add that, you couldn'tanyway, but yeah but but you
weren't, you weren't informed ofthe laws.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
There's no posters up like you find in any other
business of you know the thingsthat you, you can report and
that sort of thing.
You weren't, yeah, you weren't.
You weren't informed of thelogs?
You weren't, you weren't, youdidn't know that.
I mean, I don't know how manypeople knew there was a 9-1-1.
Do you know what I mean andwhat it was really for?
Yeah, um, um, so you had thataspect of too shit.

(54:20):
Debbie cook was the captain ofthe fso.
Here's how it um, uh, I'munaware of things we were.
She's the captain of the FSO, amultimillion dollar
organization making what?
2.5 to $7 million a week.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Captain of the FSO, chairman of the board, I think,
for CSFSO, and she didn't knowwho the president of the United
States was.
There was no TV, there was no.
I mean nothing, no outsideconnection, nothing.
Very controlled world, totallydisconnected from anything else.

(54:59):
And that's how they can getaway with these things and
that's what makes it so cultish.
But just to put it all inperspective, no for sure, One of
many things.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
But yeah, it's absolute insanity, especially
now.
I've been out just past 20years now, and now I've been
speaking out against Scientologylonger than I was in the C
organization, not longer than Iwas in Scientology just because

(55:32):
I was born into it.
So unfortunately, I'm going tobe 60 by the time I hit my 50,
50 mark.
Yeah, anyway, to finish up here, the last part that I wanted to
cover.
As you know, tom, and as youcovered in your sub stack, the

(55:53):
reports of this tragic incidentwith Stacy, that she was driven
to by Scientology, areabsolutely awful, really, really
heartbreaking to read.
Devastating as a mom,devastating as a mom,
devastating as someone who knewStacey.
I do not know how KendrickMoxon or Carla Moxon can even

(56:17):
dare to live with themselves,honestly.
Anyway, I'm going to put backin the slides here because I do
want to take a few moments tohighlight where it's documented
in the police reports that thissquirrel story was completely
concocted.

(56:38):
So let me add this back in here.
Okay, it's a lot.
Okay, so this is an excerptfrom the police report.
At about 1350 hours I spoke tostars.
I'm going to say that, um, thisperson, by my recollection,

(56:58):
would have been James Hall, whowas Stacy's direct supervisor at
the time.
He also worked in the groundsmaintenance for the household
unit which was Elrond Hubbard'shouse.
This person is the supervisorof maintenance for Golden Era
Productions.
Again, they're lying.
He was not in Golden EraProductions and neither was

(57:21):
Stacy.
But whatever, that was theshore story.
Again, just another example ofhow everybody at this property
was not only told but thentrained on what to say if they
were ever asked a question.
I asked him if he was thesupervisor for Stacy Meyer.
He stated that he was.

(57:42):
I asked him to describe herduties to me.
He stated Stacy was responsiblefor light maintenance around
the facility.
Okay, then, scrolling forward,he told me today was a normal
workday for Stacy.
Again, false, it was not anormal workday.
It was not like everyone showedup at 9.30 like any other day

(58:05):
or 8.30.
Yeah, it was a Sunday, it wasnot a normal workday other day.
Or 8, 8, 8, 30.
Yeah, it was a Sunday, it wasnot a normal work day, um, he
said.
I asked him if he's ever seenStacy work on any lawn sprinkler
systems on the facility, hesaid he'd never seen on uh, seen
her work on any lawn sprinklersystems.

(58:25):
I also asked if Stacy has everperformed any electrical
maintenance work.
He stated that he has neverseen her work on anything
electrical, with exception ofchanging of light bulbs, which,
as we covered, is 100% acomplete falsehood.
Stacey very well knew aboutthose vaults.
In fact, two weeks prior,beckett Wells, who was the chief

(58:49):
electrician of Golden EraProductions at this time, had
done a briefing to everyone onthe electrical team describing
the dangers of these highvoltage vaults.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Okay, Maybe we should get the idea.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
What's that?
Oh yeah, Completely.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Maybe.
Yeah, completely get the ideayeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Um, he also stated that stacy seemed fine mentally.
She was happy and not depressedthe last time he spoke to her.
Again, complete and utterfabrication.
And, by the way, just because Imeant to say this at the
beginning of this episode, allof the information that I have

(59:30):
has absolutely been reported tomultiple law enforcement
agencies.
In uh, when I left in 2000,2008 to 2010, mark and I were
actually confidential informantsfor the FBI, like signed sealed
.
Mark was CI1 and I was CI2.

(59:51):
So, yes, every piece ofinformation about this incident
has been reported to lawenforcement.
The point is to keep Stacy'smemory alive and to educate
people on how Scientology coversthis stuff up, because you
literally it's just just who'sbehind it exactly one man
exactly that's right, one man,um, okay.

(01:00:14):
So then I asked who I'm sayingis james hall, if he could think
of any reason why stacy wouldremove the cover from the vault,
place a ladder inside and enterthe vault.
He had told me he had no ideawhy she would do that again.
Uh, so okay, so here we go.
This is the part I wanted tohighlight at about two oh seven,

(01:00:36):
14 oh seven.
So now the first one here.
Let's go back.
So we're talking here 150-207.
I spoke to another person.
This person is an employee ofGolden Era Productions Again,

(01:00:57):
false.
I know that this person isCarly McShane, warren McShane's
daughter, who also happened tobe Stacey's because, even though
Stacy was married, because herhusband didn't work at this
property, they lived in a.
She lived in a girl's dorm andCarly was her roommate.

(01:01:19):
Um, she told me she spoke toStacy earlier in the day at
about nine, 15 hours in heroffice.
She said stacy seemed fine andwas happy and not depressed.
You know, obviously carly wasprobably chosen because her
father has trained her very wellon how to lie to law

(01:01:40):
enforcement.
That's my uh deduction fromthis.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Um, okay, moving forward here to really just get
to the point of this here again,wrath of Miscavige.

(01:02:06):
Where you're?
You're just, you're carryingout orders and you're carrying
out and saying the things thatyou're expected to say.
You have no life, you have nocontrol of how, what you think
or what you do or anything.
I'm not justifying it for him,I'm just saying that they, you
know yeah, she wasn't depressedLike I'm not.

(01:02:27):
You know what I mean.
Again, it's the world that welived in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah, completely Okay so now.
So remember the first interviewwas 1.50.
Now it's 3.15.
I was contacted by the seniorAgain saying this was um james
hall.
By my recollection.
James told me he now recallsspeaking to stacy on saturday

(01:02:59):
evening about a squirrel thatwas electrocuted.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
So again that you see , you see where, where the lies
start filtering in that you know, go with the squirrel thing.
You got to give them an answerto that question.
They're they're trying tooutthink the police and I'll
think you know, okay, go backand give me something.
It sounds even to us now.
You go the fuck.
Are they saying right, and thepolice officer had to go.

(01:03:39):
What?
What you're coming up with?
It's three hours later runningafter a squirrel.
By the way, squirrels, I don'tthink, run down into those
things, they run up trees, theyrun away, not in normally.
But it's just such a bullshitstory.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Completely and, like I said, we know directly from
multiple sources that thisrodent story has been used even
more recently in very alarmingcases, has been used even more
recently in very alarming cases.
So, um, that those, those, uh,you know, even within the last

(01:04:18):
two, three years, for example,and that's actually why, um, the
Michael J Rinder AftermathFoundation was asked to set up a
direct law enforcement crisisline, like a dedicated line for
law enforcement, so when theyrun into situations like this
and they are limited by whatthey can do and say there's a
crisis line that they know tocall.
So, yeah, okay, so again.

(01:04:40):
So this, this I really justwanted to kind of document the
fact that we see the storychange, even within the police
report of cover-up and lies.
Um, this was then the articlethat was put out.
You can't read it, but I havethe.
The text of it is from here.
Scientologist accident victim isidentified.

(01:05:03):
The 20 year old hemet womandied after she fell in a
transformer vault by KarenMarriott.
A woman killed in the Church ofScientology's film Studio
Grounds near San Jacinto is20-year-old Hammett resident,
stacey Meyer.
According to the county coroner, she apparently was
electrocuted when she fell in atransformer vault on Golden Era

(01:05:24):
Productions north of San Jacinto, said Riverside County Sheriff.
I can't read all of thisbecause it's behind a whatever,
but you got the point.
Um, the other part I wanted tocover here is this um, osha,
osha spokesman dean fryer saidthe agency expects the

(01:05:44):
investigation may be done withinthree months.
So the part I didn't read wascovering that there was going to
be an OSHA investigation.
Uh, correctly.
So which any, any investigatorworth their salt should have, of
course, found out that, oh,there's teenagers and young
people on this property withabsolutely zero certification as

(01:06:05):
electricians working on uh,zero certification as
electricians working on highvoltage electrical projects.
Fryer said the state will lookinto how the woman got into the
underground electrical vaultwhere she died.
Anyway, all of this to say thatthe OSHA inspection failed
completely and they were fined Ithink it was $400 for some

(01:06:29):
extension cords and I think youwanted to talk about this, right
, tom.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Well, I don't, you know.
There's so many aspects I don'tknow.
When did they come in andinspect?
Do we know that the timedifference?

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
It was that same day that they started.
It was the same day, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
So somebody would have cleaned up as much as they
could, as quickly as they could,and then limited what they
could see and and and all that.
But, um, yeah, I mean myexperience when I got up there
in 2001 with, uh, I did, youknow, a lot of construction
renovations in clearwater,florida, um, which was not a

(01:07:09):
friendly environment for thechurch.
So when it came to gettingpermits and that sort of thing,
they were and they're normallyassholes.
They were really asshole nowabout it, um, but when I got
there, um, you know, just to goback real quick to to you know,
stacy, you work in electricityBuilding 50's electrical was a

(01:07:31):
nightmare and it was all donein-house.
Everything about the buildingwas a nightmare and it was all
done in-house.
People were just not trained todo it.
So it's right there from anOSHA perspective or permitting
perspective.
You go what the hell are youguys doing?
I mean, you're not qualified todo it.
The building's going to falldown.
So we weren't qualified tobegin with and if they knew who

(01:07:55):
was doing it and that theyweren't trained and they weren't
journeymen and that sort ofthing, there would have been big
trouble.
So they covered it all up.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Yeah.
But you've also got the but nodoubt it involved tax exempt
dollars being used.
Oh, very much so, and I wasabout to say so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
When I finally had to get inspections for sort of
occupancies and that sort ofthing for building 15 and things
I was working on, they theinspector would come in and chat
for 10-15 minutes and leave.
There were no inspections.
They were bought off.
Uh, it was all in hoden,whoever, all personal

(01:08:37):
relationships and gifts and thisand that, and so there was no
um, uh, there was no control.
There was again its own littlebubble everything arranged, paid
for, people, bought off, uh, tothe degree.
I mean to take it to a differentperspective for a minute the
building 50.
The first recommendationbuilding 50 is the rtc building.

(01:09:00):
34 million had been spent on itbefore I got there, um, it
looked like a renovationsproject of a older building.
Um, it was brand new.
Um, and the contractors Ibrought in recommended the same
thing, I thought, which is, ifyou, if we want to do it right
and save money on it, tear itdown and redo it because it's

(01:09:24):
not safe.
It was built that badly andthis again is the in-house
untrained people doing it andthen buying off the inspectors
and so forth.
So you have no checks andbalances and it's a complete
nightmare Anyway yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Yeah, I did want to comment.
It struck me in the OSHA reportthat I looked at it has a line
item where they notified aheadof time of the inspection and it
said no.
And I'm like that's physicallyimpossible at that property.
They show up at the gate andthey cannot get in until

(01:10:05):
security lets them in.
And they cannot get in untilsecurity lets them in, which
means that security immediatelygives the destination site a
heads up that they're comingright.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Totally so, yeah.
So again, all of this on thisparticular day, you know, as my
son is going to be 20 next year,and again, it's absolutely
wrong what Scientology is ableto get away with, and this is
why I decided that we shouldtalk about this on this day to

(01:10:41):
remember Stacey and remember thecrimes that Scientology covers
up, and I just really appreciateyou doing this with me, tom so
your perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
I see you're upset and I understand that.
I'm there too.
Ellie will be turning 10 hereat the end of the year and
that's about the time I joinedthe Sea Org.
Two years later, I was, I was,and I look at her now and I go
how could you possibly do it?
Yeah, but um, I see you'reupset and emotional about it and
I, I totally understand it.

(01:11:11):
I'm angry and and uh, I am, Iam too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
I am too.
It's just when I think about itfrom from my role as a mom.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
It is so I know believe me, I hear you a hundred
percent, but I just get soangry about the warm exchange to
Ken Hoden's, to you know andthen Miscavige, controlling this
whole thing and still walkingaround like everything's normal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I know, and still getting away with it to this day
.
So we will not rest.
We will continue to do the work.
Thank you for again bringingyour voice back.
Are you good if we take a fewquestions before we finish?

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
up today.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Okay, awesome, clara is going to help because, like I
said, I'm doing this solo forthe first time.
Coffee First Always.
Your work is so important forall the people who suffered at
the hands of David Miscavige andhis abusive cult.
This is for Stacey and BFG'sadvocacy.
Thank you, Coffee First Always.
I appreciate it.
Scientology, peeling the onionthat's Mark Fisher.

(01:12:10):
Have you and Tom ever seen asquirrel at the property?
I never did.
I saw a raccoon.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Good point, Mark.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Good point.
No, I saw a raccoon one time bySeymour Gold's office when it
was in the ranchos.
Yeah, one time by simo gold'soffice when it was in the
ranchos.
Yeah, I, that's a really goodquestion.
There were peacocks.
I remember the peacocks becausethey used to shit in the
buildings.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Excuse my language yeah, but um, yeah, you mean?
Um, yeah, there were birds allover the place, but I think he's
right now and I think about Idon't remember ever seeing a
squirrel there.
No, unless you're talking aboutDave and Mayo.
I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
But no, I don't remember ever seeing a squirrel
there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Actually come to think of it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Yeah, good point Mark , yeah, really good point.
Okay, one love 51,000 questionDid everyone know at the time
that she took her own life ordid everyone figure it out?
Looking back, nobody knew, onlythe people close to her and the
um Marian Powell, warrenMcShane.
I figured it out because Iinterviewed people.

(01:13:21):
You know the, the three peoplewho were close to her.
Um, but no, in fact there wasGod, I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
I guess the only ones that knew really were the
people that read the note orknew about the note, which would
include Warren McShane, kenHoughton and David McScavage and
Shelley McScavage.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Yeah, I mean that's how criminal it is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
You know, I'm sure other people went oh, she killed
herself.
There's no question about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
I'm sure they were suspicious of it, but what I was
going to say, though, is thatthe next day it was again one of
the weirdest things that I'veever seen happen on that
property.
There was a service held inMassacre Canyon Inn by Ken Hoden
as the minister, tellingeverybody there oh, this was a
tragic accident.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
PR cover-up.
Yeah, I mean it's just totalyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Because a lot of people were very, very upset?
No, they would not.
So that's my answer to thatquestion Aid question.
What was Derek's reaction?
What is Derek doing nowadays?
We're talking about Derek again, derek Meyer, which was
Stacyacy's husband, right?
right right I I didn't ever talkto him directly.

(01:14:32):
I was not, you know, whatever.
I was in internal in religioustechnology center.
So the fact that I had anyinvolvement was really just
because I was so shocked andcame in early that sunday
morning.
Um derek was brought to thatproperty and went through very
thorough handlings, I'm sure toconvince him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
He was brought to the property.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
He was yeah, wow, which was rare, because he
didn't have clearance.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
It makes sense.
If you think like Miscavige,bring him up.
Yep Could have been the prisonNow we got control over him.
He can't leave, he can't youknow yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
You can't leave, you can't you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Yeah, I think that Control the situation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
Yeah, I might be mixing it up, but I'm pretty
sure that he was a securityguard in Los Angeles, so, and he
was at the property for anextended period of time being
handled.
Yeah, and I'm not sure whathe's doing now.
He's likely still in the Corganization.

(01:15:29):
Is would be my expectation.
His brother, Alex Meyer, wasalso in the C organization in
Los Angeles.
Anyway, that's the yeah, thereyou go.
So that's Derek SP Spanglish.
Have you seen the video of CarlaMoxon that Angry gay Pope
posted featuring her star in thesky monologue?

(01:15:50):
It is pure unadulteratedinsanity and horrific that she
would focus on that rather thanher daughter.
I did see that SP Spanglish andit was mind boggling there.
If you go on YouTube and searchCarla Moxon, there's a video
that was, I guess.
I didn't realize Angry Gay Popehad put it up, but I saw it and

(01:16:11):
it's absolutely nutty.
Yeah, and meanwhile, again, howcan Kendrick and Carla possibly
live with themselves notknowing the truth of this
tragedy?
Perspectives Wellness.
Is there a higher than averagecancer death rate among
Scientologists?
What would you say to that, Tom?

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
No, and and I say that off the cuff, but here's my
, here's my point of view ofthis uh perspective wellness.
I don't think so.
I think you're givingScientology too much credit.
I don't think it caused cancer,I don't think it.
I don't think it cured cancer,I don't think it.
It uh, I mean stress and allthat sure that increases it, as

(01:16:53):
we know.
But no, I think what happenedin my opinion, strictly my
opinion you're in a prettyclosed group.
So you hear about this persongot cancer and died, that person
got cancer and died.
Because it's a closed group itseems like a bigger percentage,
I think.
But outside I've known manypeople that have died from

(01:17:13):
cancer.
I think it's a thing, it'sscrewed up, but I don't think
it's personally.
I don't think it's more or lessin Scientology.
I think it's just because whenyou're in that group of closed
group, you hear it makes sensethat you go, oh, it's related,
but I personally don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
It's like interesting .

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
No, no, I, so I have a different perspective on it
thought that I would share withyou.
In response to that, though, isthat specifically for members
of the C organization, and evenmore so at that at that property
?
To me, like I never heard ofsomeone getting cancer and

(01:17:59):
surviving, it was always theygot cancer, and by the time they
found out it was stage four andboom, they were gone.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
For sure.
My mother was like that insideand I think from that
perspective, yeah, okay, thefood that we ate the rice and
beans full time, we never slept,we smoked like chimneys.
You know there were all thosefactors as well, but I and so
maybe so from that perspective.
But I worry that people get theidea that if you read OT3

(01:18:31):
material you're going to die ofpneumonia.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Oh God, no, no, no, not because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
It's stress, it's all the things.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
It doesn't have that power.
No Power or magic to it, no,but from a stress, eating,
sleeping, that sort of thing,absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Yeah, we're on the same page.
No, I don't.
I don't think it has anythingto do with Scientology.
It has to do with Scientologyabuses.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yes, exactly, yeah.
There you go I would.
I would blame Miscavige morefor it than I would.
The technology of Scientology.
One hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Yes, exactly.
All right, Jacob Harkey.
Glad to see you speaking out,tom, and loving your approach
with the Indite David Miscavigeinitiative.
May Stacey rest in peace.
Thank you so much, jacob.
We appreciate you.
All right, we'll do a couplemore here and then we'll call it
wraps, because I know we havekids and so forth.
To get back to One love 51,000.

(01:19:28):
How much did one cigarette cost?

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
I don't know.
I don't know, but I will tellyou.
When I arrived there and thisis my sub stack post too but
there were two girls I'd known,or one of them I'd known, and
I'd pull up my camels, I smokedand I lit one up and they were
practically drooling.
Anyway, after a few minutes Ioffered them cigarettes and then
I found out, yeah, they wereselling in a pack of cigarettes.

(01:19:54):
Whether you like the brand ornot, you could take a cigarette.
But supposedly they were havingto buy their own toilet paper
at the canteen and it was alljust to tie back, it was.
Also, they couldn't leave thebase or go out to a regular
store to buy anything.
They had to be controlled inthat environment.
So, yeah, individual cigarettes.

(01:20:16):
I want to say dimes to answeryour question, but I don't
remember for sure.
And the problem was theycouldn't come up with the dimes.
They had to go digging throughold clothes and stuff like that
because they weren't being paid.
And when I brought it up on aroll for just a second here,
claire, sorry when I brought itup to miscavige in my daily
report, fucking guys haven'tbeen being paid, he goes what
the fuck?

(01:20:36):
How could that be thosecriminals.
And you know, he and he goesafter jaeger and all the guys
and, of course, two months laterI find out no, he's the one
ordered, don't pay him yep,exactly, he would do that all
the time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
He would get all up in arms finding out that we
hadn't slept in months andmonths, and months.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
And he's the one that ordered it.
This is why I don't do YouTubevideos, because I will go off
for three hours.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
We'll wrap it up.
It's all good.
Okay, we'll do one lastquestion, clara, and then we'll
wrap it up.
Thank you, catherine Olson.
I'll just say here that a fewdays after this happened, her
husband, derek, put out an issueregarding safety around high
voltage areas.
How freaking creepy is that.
Thank you for adding that,catherine.
Yeah, like I guaranteeCatherine and I were.

(01:21:27):
She mentioned this to me theother day and I was like, yeah,
that's typical.
Typically, what somebody woulddo as part of lower conditions
is deliver an effective blow,like I'm going to make sure that
this never happens again and aspart of proving that he's
bought the story anyway.
It's really sad.
What happened to stacy is anabsolute tragedy.

(01:21:48):
Um, and I truly hope thatanyway, whatever, we'll just end
it at that.
I she was a beautiful personshould not have been driven to
what she felt was the only wayout.
Um, again, it was falseimprisonment and a whole long
list of crimes involvingcover-up that were perpetrated

(01:22:11):
by David Miscavige directly andWarren McShane.
And again, I'll include thelink to the very detailed
article that you put up on yourSubstack, tom.
That is our show for today,folks, tom, again, thank you so
much for joining me for this.
I really appreciate it and seeyou everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Bye thanks for watching.
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(01:22:52):
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book Blown for Good Behind
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(01:23:14):
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