June 18, 2020 • 36 mins
Creative and community organizer A.J. Lucky has an intimate conversation with Ph.D. candidate Chanel Beebe, about individual and collective Black bodies, responding to the current social movement. From Black bodies doing “fu fu” things to twerking in the mirror, to intentional need-based healings. It’s all us, and it’s all happening now.
Instagram: blacklovequeer
Twitter: blacklovequeer
Twitter: blacklovequeer
Cashapp: $Ajayluck
Chanel Beebe
Website: ChanelBeebe.com
Artist, Writer, Educator, Researcher, Activist
Hometown: Detroit, MI
Pronouns: she, her, hers
Gender Identity: Woman, Two-Spirited
Ethnicity: African American, Indigenous
Passions: Social Problem Solving, Community Building, Art Therapy, Personal and Communal Thriving, and Wellbeing
Professional Roles:
Founder and CEO: Beebe Arts LLC
Editor-In-Chief: Bitten Magazine™
Apprentice Editor: Murmurations: Emergence, Equity, and Education
Inaugural Intern: The Isipho Collective
Chief People Officer: Family First Solar
Thought Leader: National Association of Multicultural Engineering Program Advocates (NAMEPA)
Founding and Board Member: Green Papers Venture Capital
Ph.D. Candidate: Purdue University Department of Engineering Education
Master’s Student: Purdue University Department of Industrial Engineering
Signed Print Editions can be purchased here:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Black black girl, come when we walk into a room
full of pink people, it started,Hey, black boy, black girl.
Don't, you know, black flag,spiritual Lackey, try and feel
(00:27):
good to be black, black.
Sometimes I wish black queerblack is where blackness
intersects with queerness andmeats.
So what is your show calledblack?
Like Blaz can like be LQ.
It's called, it's called blackSlack.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (00:52):
All right.
Today I have with me Chanel Bebe, and I mean, Chanel, I've known
her for about five or six yearsnow.
And she is just one of thosepeople who they have so many
different roles and things thatthey do in their life.
Um, it would probably take upway too much time even sending
through and sifting through allof this stuff and the things
that she does.
(01:13):
So I'm just gonna go ahead andgive you the room in this space
right now, Chanel, to talk aboutwhat you are currently working
on, and then we'll link your biosomewhere in the description
box.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Okay.
Sounds good.
That's actually great.
It's a lot easier to do it thatway.
Um, so hello everybody.
My name is Chanel Bebe.
I am artist, a writer, educator,um, a researcher activist.
Um, I'm from Detroit, Michigan.
Um, my pronouns are she her andhers.
Uh, I identify as a woman, butalso as two spirit, um, which
(01:46):
you can do some research on.
Um, my ethnicity is AfricanAmerican, black, any black,
black, black, black, black.
Um, but I also identify as, um,indigenous, um, I'm from a few
different tribes.
The one I know about right nowis the Choctaw tribe.
Um, so yeah, that's who I am.
Um, I am the founder and CEO ofa small business out of Detroit,
(02:09):
um, called BB arts LLC.
And what we do is social andeducational equity.
So we do programs, we do content, um, anything research,
whatever is needed related tothose two concepts.
Um, right now I'm working onreleasing a magazine that was
going to come out on June 13th.
Um, the magazine is calledbitten, um, B I T T E N, like
(02:32):
the past tense of bite.
Um, and the magazine is allabout just collecting the things
that I've learned and trying toput them, um, in a beautiful way
and trying to make it somethingthat people can pick up and
enjoy looking at, but also learnsomething from, um, something
that's related to whateverthey're going through right now.
Um, so it's going to be aquarterly magazine.
(02:52):
Um, in the past I did anewsletter for my company in a
quarterly fashion as well.
Um, and that was just updatingthem about stuff that I was
doing.
Um, so the magazine will stillhave elements of that, but it
will be more so focused oncontent, um, content and really
art.
So it's going to be greatcontent, but also, um, the first
issue will be very much me.
(03:13):
So if you want to hear myopinions about things for real,
for real pick up the magazine.
Um, so it's, I have a lot of myartwork and a lot of content
will be generated by me.
Um, but also we'll have some,um, photography by, uh, Detroit
artists by the name of KingChloe Katz.
Um, also we'll have some piecesof the content that have been
contributed, um, from, uh,homeys.
(03:34):
I asked some friends and Gary,um, to for instance, st.
Louis.
Um, so yeah, it's going to be alittle collaborative, but in the
future it's going to besignificantly more
collaborative.
So the first issue is just kindof a, here we are, this is what
we do.
Um, and then we'll be allowingpeople to, you know, do their
own editorials to submit theirown articles.
Um, ideally, you know, it'llhave less and less of my artwork
(03:55):
in it and more and more ofcommunal art.
Um, so I'm excited about it.
That's really what I've beenspending my time on lately.
Um, so I'm excited to be able tokind of talk about that here,
but also just to continue to getmy voice out, you know, so I
appreciate the opportunity to beon this podcast, um, because I
learned from you a lot, likewe've been friends for awhile,
but I also learned from the wayyou learn, you know, so I'm like
(04:18):
excited for this conversation.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Thank you.
I really do appreciate that.
And I'm happy to have you on asone of my first guests, like it
immediately when I thought of,okay, I'm building a platform
for people to come on for our,our, um, voices to be heard and
to be protecting, I was like,okay, one of the biggest voices
in my life that I'm alwayslistening to and tuning into, no
matter what channel that is,whether it's the magazine, it's
(04:44):
the social equity firm.
I am digging into it to see whatI'm learning and, and how she's
feeding us.
Um, and then how can we giveback and feed her as well?
So, um, I really brought you on,because I wanted to have you
talk about the black body, um,and how this current movement at
(05:04):
hand is affecting our bodies.
So, um, you can start with firstby probably talking about how
you've realized as theindividual, this entire movement
has affected your body.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Mm.
Yeah.
It's easier to talk about mybody than the whole black body.
Um, my body is healing.
Um, and recently I've made thehealing of my body, my primary
job.
(05:37):
Um, and that has been aninteresting shift.
Um, but I don't think I'm alonein that shift.
It seems like, um, black bodies,um, melanated bodies.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Empathetic bodies everywhere, kind of realizing
that like we have to be healing.
Um, so I guess when I thinkabout these times, how I'm
affected by it, I think that's,what's mainly been happening.
It's been sending me insidemyself.
Um, I've been just becoming moreaware of how I feel, how my body
holds those feelings, um,because I w you know, when you
(06:14):
see what you see when you see apandemic, when you see, um,
continued racism matched with,you know, uprising trying to
reconcile that racism, um, yourbody, my body wants to help.
It wants to be a part it wantsto forward these things.
(06:38):
Um, But in that same moment thatyou see that and want to do
those things, you also realizedthat you can only do those
things with your body, you know,so I think it's definitely sent
me to realize that, like, mybody is my instrument for this
thing.
And if I don't take care of mybody, I can't help therefore
taking care of my body can, andshouldn't be my first job.
Um, and that's, that's aconstant paradigm shift, you
(06:59):
know, every day I have to remindmyself to check in, but, um, I
think the greatest effect thatthese times I've had on me and
my body has been my relationshipbetween myself and my body.
Um, and how important that feelsnow and how sacred it feels now.
Um, and really how celebratoryit can feel, because the freedom
(07:20):
that my ancestors have beenfighting for, um, was all about
Their kids being able to feelsafe in their bodies.
Um, so I've been trying to liketap into that, you know, as
often as I can.
Um, But that's just my body, youknow, that's just my conception
(07:43):
of bodies right now.
Um,
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So, um, can you dive into more detail about maybe the
physical aspect, emotional andspiritual aspect of how your
body has been affected by theseuprisings and in, in a way for
me, the way I've been, you know,using it as a term, I feel like
a rebellion is more so a, uh,proper way to conceptualize and
(08:07):
happening right now, but how areyou effecting on most three
planes?
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I would say first I'm affected intellectually.
Um,
Speaker 5 (08:21):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (08:21):
The language to describe what is playing out.
Um,
Speaker 5 (08:32):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Feels a thousand percent more significant than it
did pre George Floyd.
Um, the language was stillimportant, then it still
mattered then
Speaker 5 (08:53):
[inaudible].
But I think because we are,
Speaker 4 (08:56):
We had only really seen protest be protests in the
town that had happened in, andmaybe sometimes, sometimes a few
solidarity things, you know,because protest was a good
enough word before Joyce Florida, we have protests, we have
black lives matter, you know, wehave racism.
Um, and we knew about riots.
You know, we knew that there hadhappened.
(09:17):
If you studied a little bit ofhistory, you maybe have known a
little bit about the differentrace Wars that have happened.
Maybe a little bit about therebellions, but most people know
, riots, racism, protests, um,maybe Colin Kaepernick, right.
Um, intellectually now, um,because of how pervasive the
(09:40):
response to the pandemic ofracism has been because of how,
um, widespread, you know, thesetechnically just protest are,
uh, everybody is realizing Ican't just call them protest.
You know, I can't just call it.
Uh, I, you know, I could call itan uprising, you know, uprising
really just defines the originalaction.
(10:01):
I could call it a riot, but riotjust defines a piece of the
action.
I would call it a protest, butprotest really just defines, you
know, in some context, just theMarch, you know, um, I could
call it a reckoning, you know,but reckoning defines, wants to
work, has already been done.
So none of these words really,um, by themselves are whole, um,
(10:26):
and I'm appreciative that peoplearen't being careful about how
they're describing it and peopleare kind of taking the time to
get not necessarily politicallycorrect, but just to try to be
as intentional and impeccablewith their words as possible.
Um, but I'm also aware thatintellectually, this is a time
where we need to let stories bestories and stop trying to find
(10:46):
the right word and the whitephrase and let a collection of
phrases let a collection ofvoices, let a collection of
feelings be what defines rightnow.
Um, because
Speaker 6 (11:04):
[inaudible],
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't think any of us really wants this to be that
one uprising in our kids'textbooks.
You know, we don't want it to bethat one time that we said
something and then nothingreally changed.
I think all of us are like, no,this is it.
You know, we doing it.
This is we, we we're changing itnow, you know, and if we're
changing it now, then it needsas many words as possible.
(11:29):
It needs as many perspectives aspossible.
It needs as many descriptions oflifestyles before and afterwards
we need to make explicit, um,what it is that's changing, you
know, and I think that thatIntellectual And, um, linguistic
(11:52):
effect is what's affecting methe most.
Um, and as what will affect ourchildren the most.
Um, so that's what I'm mostfocused on.
Um, but in being focused onthat, like I said, my body is an
instrument through which I cando that.
Right.
So, um, I think physically notjust my body, but I think, um,
(12:14):
within the bodies of anybodymelanated and anybody who cares
about anybody, myelinated, um,we're processing what to do with
justified anger, we'reprocessing what to do with an
undeniable call to action andchange.
Um, and if you think of your,our bodies as machines with
(12:39):
parts, um, if we think of ourbodies as machines with, you
know, gears in them, and you canthink of those gears as wheels
or as energy motions, you canalso think of those gears as
chakras, but your gears weregoing a certain way in a certain
direction, within a certaincontext.
However, for having long, theywas doing that before George
(13:01):
Floyd, then these things havehappened, right?
And now your body wants to go adifferent way, but an object in
motion stays in motion unlesssomething sends it another way.
So you've been sent in otherway, but you still have to like,
your body remembers thedifference in those feelings,
right?
And I think physically, ourbodies are now experiencing that
(13:24):
paradigm shift.
Um, our bodies are experiencingthat intellectual mucky area.
I was just talking about, um, Ithink physically people are
reacting to it with whateverthey, whatever they have at
their hands.
You know?
So if, if you are in a body thatdoes not necessarily identify
with the violence that you'veseen, um, chances are your body
(13:45):
is angry and ready to act.
Um, and looking for ways to usewhatever resources and whatever
influence you have to dosomething about this
systemically.
Um, if you are in a body thatdoes identify with the violence
you've seen, um, you're doingthose same things, but you also
(14:06):
are, are, um, Sitting on fire,you're sitting on a big ball of
uncertainty, a big ball of alack of safety, a big ball of
potential violence that hasreally always been there.
Um, and if your body is adescendant of the transatlantic
(14:26):
slave trade, your body knows itreally, really well.
Um, and that ball up until thispoint for a lot of people, that
ball has been invisible, unlessyou also had that ball.
Um, but now you are seeing thatlike, Oh, everybody's sitting on
fire.
You know, there's a reason whyBaldwin called it the fire next
time.
You know, there's a reason whyprotests have the element of
(14:53):
fire in them because when yourbody doesn't feel safe, your
shopper or your bottom one thatconnects you to this art, it
gets either inflamed or it getsreally, really tight and either
way is going to make its way tofire at some point.
Um, so I think the bodies that Iknow of nobody's that, that
(15:15):
looked like me were figuring outwhat to do with that fire or
figuring out how to sit, how torest, how to breathe and how to
transmute the justified anger,the justified fear, the justify,
developing hatred into somethingthat's useful into something
(15:38):
that doesn't make more fire.
And if it does, it makes firethat is cleansing and not just
for the sake of more fire.
So in that regard, you know, Ithink black bodies everywhere,
hard to speak to, you know, butI'll say that if your body
identifies with the body, asyou've seen with somebody's knee
(16:01):
on their neck for eight minutes,then you're dealing with some
fire.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah.
And I would just say everyonewho I've personally talked to
him within my own network, who,you know, our bodies are similar
or they identify with a similarbody.
Um, it's kinda like it's acollective, um, I dunno, it's
been like a collective pressure,like a collective judgment that
(16:28):
there is something that's waybigger than just, okay, it's me.
It's, you know, it almost feltlike everyone I reached out to,
they were that we wereexplaining, um, and describing
similar, I don't know that ourbody, like similar symptoms of
whatever was going on.
Um, the, the, the, cause of allthis, it was like, we were all
(16:51):
experiencing like this massscale of the similar side
effects, um, for justintellectually and mentally, we
were jumbled, like I want towork.
And I was speaking to my vicepresident and she happens to be
a woman with African Americandescent.
And she was talking about how,Whoa, like you literally just
described my week to a T.
(17:12):
And I told her, well, Monday, Icouldn't think I couldn't
formulate like simple, you know,I couldn't connect to simple
pieces, like work that I was soeasy to me coming in Monday.
It did not make sense to me.
It felt like the hardest thingand just completing a simple
test.
It, it felt like it was exertinga huge amount of energy.
Um, and then I described myTuesday being like this, this
(17:34):
breaking point to where it waslike, I didn't realize how much
of whatever it is I was holdingon to.
Um, and, and, and she was like,Whoa, like, I really felt like
that too.
And then we hit that breakingpoint and then it was like,
okay, what are we doing totransfer this energy or a
transmitted and let it out.
And it was definitely like a, ascream, cry, the acknowledgement
(17:57):
of ancestors going to theancestors, trying to perform a
ritual that the cleanse myselfin to get this out of me.
And, and it was, it was hard, um, coming out of that weekend
with the initial.
Um, and I, I love the way youdescribed it as being a
collective of words.
Cause I think it, in fact onthat weekend, it was all of
those things.
Cause in some places it was justa protest.
(18:18):
In some places it was protestsand riots.
In some places, it almost feltlike a rebellion because it was
a, uh, a fighting, uh,interaction between this state
sanctioned, um, institution andbetween the people just black
people.
It wasn't just white people, butit,
Speaker 4 (18:35):
It was just people.
It was people, you know, and Ithink, um, people have a body
that has to process thesethings.
And, you know, I think we had asimilar process when the
pandemic started to affectbusinesses.
Um, the first time you heardabout it, you like, whatever, I
(18:57):
don't got nothing for this.
I don't seem like I should sayanything second time.
I'll be like, what are we reallyabout to, this is what's
happening.
Eventually, eventually you getmad, you know, eventually you're
like, wait a minute, wait, wait,wait.
So I can't.
So I can't do none of theprojects.
I can go to the places I can'tdo the thing.
Um, and then eventually you'relike, Oh, we independent.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah.
It goes back to what you weresaying with like the wording and
the phrasing, because at firstpeople were just saying, ha,
it's just the flu.
It's like the fluids, but deal.
And next thing I know over thecourse of like three days, I'm
working from home for two monthsand I'm like, and then I'm like,
my short film has been pausedbecause we can't gather people
(19:44):
personally and lost two familymembers.
And I was just like, just tryingto conceptualize, like what just
happened.
And we didn't chance to really,I didn't even get a chance.
I don't know, speak for myself.
I didn't get a chance to fullyheal from that.
And here I come smack
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, I mean, it's, yeah, it's hard to heal from
anything when something else wasalready happening.
Um, and I think, you know, whenwe were talking about before
this, we were talking about, um,y'all missed a great
conversation before this podcaststarted.
Um, and I think we'll make thatavailable in some way, but we
were talking about the idea ofholidays, um, and the idea of
like collective experiences.
(20:22):
Um, and I think, you know, whatwe, what we experienced with
that pandemic, what weexperienced, what we have been
experiencing with racism, youknow, pre Joyce George floor,
but also, you know, to thisdeeper extent with George,
George Floyd, um, is thiscollective knowing and
processing and giving betterlanguage to, you know, and as
much as I fought the media forhow they do what they do, um,
(20:45):
the media is a reflection of ourown stupidity and our own
inability to grasp and to do ourown research.
And to really want somebody tojust tell me what to call it.
People are getting sick aroundme.
It looks like the flu.
We just wanna call it the flu.
That's fine.
I know what the flu is.
That's cool.
Okay.
More people are dying that havedied before, which I say it was
Corona.
All right, rolling.
(21:06):
That's cool.
That's cool.
People keep dying.
This COVID like now, now, nowpeople are just calling it COBIT
and it's like, it's because weneed time to process.
What's happening to give it abetter language to defend the
term of how we want to respondto it.
But in that whole time, you'renot healing from it.
You're just knowing about it.
(21:28):
You're learning about it andyou're dealing with it, but your
body hasn't done anything withthat energy, but put it
somewhere in your body, youknow, your body park, like you
might not be able to commentcompartmentalize, but your body
knows how to just store someunfixable, uncertain thing in
your shoulder, somewhere or inyour head.
Usually it puts it in yourstomach.
(21:49):
The stomach likes to haul a lotof those kinds of anxieties.
Um, and that's, that's, what'sbeen my concern.
Like I trust my people.
I trust the people I trust, um,humanity to reckon itself.
Um, but I don't trust humanityto heal itself.
I don't trust humanity to takethe time to acknowledge what
(22:09):
they need as they arerecommending itself.
Um, so that's been, let's facethat I'm putting myself in.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I think that's a perfect way to segue into
another question I wanted to askyou.
So you're talking about thiscollectiveness and how the
energy has been stored somewherein our body and it's been
compartmentalized.
So how do you think this isgonna affect the future
generations of people who looklike us and people who come from
(22:35):
us, um, our children or niecesor nephews, um, just that next
generation.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Mmm.
That's going to affect thembased off how it affects us.
So based off the work we do ordon't do, um, that will be the
bodies that they inherit.
And those bodies will experiencethe world that we did or did not
work on.
And those bodies will respond tothat.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Based off the T the tools that we did or did not
handle them.
Um, and a lot of ways, I feellike we use the perspectives and
the experiences of our futuregenerations, um, to dream, but
we don't use them to holdourselves accountable.
Um, and I think everybody wantsto talk about what's next.
Everybody wants to imagine theworld, they want their kids to
(23:29):
live in.
Um, but the last half of thatimagining is the walk back to
where we are now.
Right?
So I do a lot of work in designthinking.
I do a lot of work in socialproblem solving, um, and helping
people to out what they wouldlike to see done differently.
Um, and the hardest part of thatis figuring out, okay, now that
(23:51):
we know what the thing is thatwe want, what is the step in
between?
You know, and I think peoplehave a tendency to fix that on
either end of the spectrum.
So either fixate on this is whatI want it to be, or this is
where I am right now.
And if you look at this is whereI am right now, we really don't,
you know, that's complicated,you know, it's a complicated
series of steps.
(24:11):
And if I look at where they arein the future, And I stopped at
the conversation about it and Istopped at how it makes me feel,
I'm missing the opportunity tothink about
Speaker 5 (24:30):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (24:30):
What was the day before that, like for them?
Right.
So the day that I imagined mykids live in a world without
racism somehow, and they, youknow, they have options, they
have connections, their foodmakes sense.
They're living in a, in a worldthat is not being harmed by
their actions.
Um, how did they get there?
(24:53):
What was the, what was the daybefore that?
Like, is there a system, isthere a court?
Is there a agency?
Is, you know, what, what doesthat look like?
You know, and I think, um,however their life is going to
be experienced.
It's going to be determined byour ability to give them the day
before that, you know?
Um, and I know that's not like atechnical answer to the question
(25:14):
cause I could give you like myperfect idealized, what I want
my kids to experience a worldlike, but I think it's important
to first ground the fact that,um, Whatever we make for them,
They will have to experiencewith the bodies.
We give them, um, and bodiescarry trauma, right?
(25:34):
So let's say we make this greatworld and we never call them
down while we make it.
They're going to inherit thisgreat world with our stress.
Cause that's how the body works.
The body passes trauma throughyour genes.
You don't have a choice onwhether or not they get your
best or your worst.
They just get whatever they getfrom you.
Right.
(25:54):
Um, so as we're building what webuild, I think we do have to be
cautious about the bodies thatwe're passing off to people.
Um, and I think the best that wecan be cautious about that, you
know, you do want to be, youknow, pay attention to who you
make kids with.
Um, but also, um, think abouthow you're carrying your body.
And if your body is tight, ifyour body is unhealthy, if your
(26:15):
body is not moving the way youwant it to move, how can you
heal that now?
So that as you make thesechildren, they get the DNA of a
body that is healing and nothave a body that is working so
hard to heal society that is nothealing.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So what, what are we doing to make sure our bodies
are in the process of failing?
Or what are you doingspecifically to make sure your
body is in that process?
Then you're managing this energyto where you're, you're
cognitive of what you're on orwhat body you're passing on to
your children.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Um, I've decided that my first job is my own energy
management.
Um, so when I wake up, it's myjob to think about my body and
to feel what it needs.
Um, instinctively, most peopledo that anyway, cause you're
usually woke up cause you haveto be like, that's usually the
thing that pushes you out thebed for real, for real.
Um, but lately I've been tryingto wake up before my body has to
(27:11):
pee.
So not just lay down until mybody makes me get up, but just
kinda like, Oh, I'm kind ofawake.
Let me just lay here and hear mybody.
Um, but then after that,throughout the day, um, almost
ritualistic mindfulness, um, ina sense that when I feel a down
moment or when I'm not sure whatI'm doing next and just taking a
(27:33):
minute to breathe and to likethink through my body, like what
does anything hurt and have Ieaten?
Um, cause I've gotten to a pointI'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm
not trying to say that I'm thehealthiest, you know, me saying
that we should be healthy tobuild does not mean that I'm
healthy and should therefore bebuilding I'm really, um, I know
these things because I feel mybody when it builds.
(27:54):
Um, so the way my body works isI have been so stressed out
internally, um, that I don'treally get a good concept of my
own appetite.
So if I don't think about thelast time I ate my body won't
necessarily tell me it's hungry.
What'll happen is I'll just beirritated or frustrated.
Or I would have tried to dosomething beyond my energy
(28:16):
capacity and I'll listen to mybody and I won't really hear
much.
It'll just be kind of like, Hmm,nah.
Then I think about my stomach.
And I'm like, what's that whatyou're doing?
And not doing nothing causethere's nothing in there and
it's too tired to grow.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I found that I need to reset every day and that's
been part of my ritual, myritual having to find a way to
ground myself.
So I'm sitting there and I'mintentionally doing nothing and
existing and nothing.
And then I'm listening to music,I'm listening.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah.
And it sounds so food, food, itsounds so, you know, but it's
like the most profound thing.
And like once you figure out howto do it regularly, once you get
a discipline for it, you realizethat the food food is necessary
for the real, you know, like ifyou don't, if you don't fulfill
your body because the body isthe only simple part of life,
you know, your body is the onlypart that you can talk to and
convince that you feeldifferently.
(29:07):
Cause a song as thougheverything else was real.
You know?
So if you ain't, if you ain'tgot your body to a place where
it believes in is with you, forreal, not just cause yo yo
shoulders got up at your feet,started walking, but because
your actual heart and mind wantto go that way.
Then when you get there, you'rejust going to be mad that it
ain't fool, fool, you know likeyou just like, Oh, this life is
(29:27):
just all.
And it's like, yeah, it is.
But inside your body, there is abeautiful movie happening where
you get to determine how fastyou breathe.
You went to determine what youlook at.
You could determine what youthink about you.
You know, you can like, noteverybody can visualize, um,
there is a condition I thinkit's called Fantasia or
something.
Oh, well you get where peoplecan't build visualize, but you
can like control your attention.
(29:50):
Like it doesn't just have to beon phone screens.
Don't just gotta be about thenews.
It could just be a cartoon.
Cause you liked the way thatthat artist draws and it makes
your eyes feel good food foryour life away.
My love like the real world, youknow, my mom used to tell me
that when I was younger, like,you know, people be in such a
rush to grow up, but I promiseyou, the moment you grow up,
(30:10):
you're going to wish you was akid again.
And you know, you don't believeit, but it's like, yeah, the
moment you start interactingwith other people, you realize
that you can't control them.
You can't make that.
You can't change the tone oftheir voice.
You can't make them moreinteresting.
You can't control how they talk.
You can't control what theythink is okay to say, you just
got to listen to it.
Right?
And your body experiences thestress of that, you know, and
(30:31):
like introvert, extrovert,whatever everybody needs
healing.
You know, sometimes that healingis just talking to people.
You actually like sometimes thathealing is talking to nobody.
It really depends on what yourbody needs, but if you don't
give it what it needs eventually, um, your, the organs in your
body will feel it.
And I hate to sound sofatalistic.
But I be telling my family thisall the time.
(30:52):
Like if you don't heal, you'regoing to die soon.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
No, that's true.
I mean, it puts the amount ofstress on your body that
literally takes away blackpeople's lives.
So yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah.
You need to be eating right.
Yet.
If you need to be a nice person.
Yeah.
And you also need to bestretching and breathing
regularly.
I'm sorry that there is anoption about it.
I'm sorry that, you know,mindfulness and meditation was
presented to black people assomething Asian and then
something white, but Hey,comedic people were doing it.
Our ancestors were doing it.
(31:23):
They have their own concept of ayoga flow.
This is it's black to do it.
You don't got a choice.
Brush your teeth, touch yourtoes.
Like it's not an option.
It's not fancy.
It's not cute.
It's not gentrified.
It's not bougie.
Like it is necessary to brushyour teeth.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
When you get into, into some kind of alignment with
your body, your body will tellyou exactly what you should be
doing.
If your body getting stiff,getting hard, it's telling you,
okay, maybe I need to dosomething else and move around.
Especially working from home.
Oh my God.
My body was getting stiff.
And I'm like, yeah, I got to dosomething.
(32:08):
I got to stretch.
The next thing I know my leg ison my mini fridge.
While after this, after a coupleof days, it's like, Oh yeah, my
buddy actually needed thisregularly.
My cousin was saying, um,
Speaker 4 (32:24):
She was like, I don't know if black women know this,
but like the more you shake yourbutt, the more money you make.
And I was like, what are youtalking about?
And she was like, no, you ain'teven got to do it.
I only fan.
It's just like the more, themore you move your body, the
more aligned you become yourbody.
The better you use your body,the more money you make.
And I was just like,
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Look, I'm telling you sometime in the morning torque
sessions, when you, when youfill in, when you feel like that
, Allen and you just
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Man, just catch yourself in the mirror at one
time and just start dancing.
No knowing that you don't feelgood knowing that you irritated
knowing it's a pandemic now onthis uprising, knowing that the
president that controls a goodportion of his world is who he
is.
Knowing all that stuff.
We get yourself and then do alittle shoulder something and it
will amuse the fuck out of you.
(33:12):
Like in your body.
We'll play it.
Look at your body.
Has the functionality, a childlike we'd like to, we other
children, we make children likethe under devolved of all
version of us.
But children really know how touse their body.
Children got a good concept ofwhat this life is about because
they don't got no concept ofwhat these bills is about.
So they get it, they get it.
They get that.
The body is about breathing andplaying and laughing and
touching and eating things thattaste good.
(33:34):
And you know, try not to get introuble.
That's all it.
That's all.
It really is.
They get it, they get up andthey play and they poke you in
an oath, poke yourself in themouth.
That's all I'm saying.
Like every cause when you putyourself in the nose, you're
gonna realize that you kind oftight, you bent over.
You're gonna wiggle a littlebit.
You're gonna stretch.
You know, it doesn't have to bea 30 minute yoga, yoga video
every day.
(33:55):
It don't gotta be an hour longmeditation.
It really just needs to be.
As often as you can remember it,breathe, listen to yourself,
move your body stretch.
You know?
And that's, I mean, that's myinternal effective way, um, that
I've noticed.
Um, cause there's a lot of otherenergy that needs to be managed,
(34:16):
you know?
Um, but you know the serenityprayer, you have to understand
what it is that you can change.
And the thing that youdefinitely can change is you and
your body.
And if not, you know, if you tryit and it's difficult, build
community, reach out for helpask somebody.
There are therapists.
There are, especially nowthere's a lot of free.
Like people you can talk tothat, won't judge you.
(34:36):
And I don't like to tell yourbusiness and nobody, if you
can't get in your body, if everytime you try to breathe, you
start crying or you get mad.
Go talk to somebody about that.
That's your body telling youwhat it needs.
It didn't need to stretch.
It didn't need to play in amirror.
It needed to talk like that's,that's what that is.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Hmm.
Wow.
Yeah.
I think that's beautiful.
Um, so before we just wrap uphere for this episode, cause you
are coming back, um, what'ssomething you want the audience
to leave with.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Trust yourself,
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Listen to yourself.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (35:18):
And that belief in yourself is not just an emotion.
It's a committed and regularaction.
If you really believe, and youreally trust yourself, then you
regularly take care of yourselfbecause you believe in the work
that you have to do with that,buddy.
I think a lot of us have beentaught that our value is in the
(35:43):
work that we do.
Um, and if that's true, then thedeeper value has to be in the
body that does that work.
So trust yourself, listen toyourself.
Believe in yourself enough totake care of yourself.
I think that's what I would say,period.
That's it.
(36:04):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to come back.
No problem.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
[inaudible].
Black black girl, come when we walk into a room
full of pink people, it started,Hey, black boy, black girl.
Don't, you know, black flag,spiritual Lackey, try and feel
(00:27):
good to be black, black.
Sometimes I wish black queerblack is where blackness
intersects with queerness andmeats.
So what is your show calledblack?
Like Blaz can like be LQ.
It's called, it's called blackSlack.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (00:52):
All right.
Today I have with me Chanel Bebe, and I mean, Chanel, I've known
her for about five or six yearsnow.
And she is just one of thosepeople who they have so many
different roles and things thatthey do in their life.
Um, it would probably take upway too much time even sending
through and sifting through allof this stuff and the things
that she does.
(01:13):
So I'm just gonna go ahead andgive you the room in this space
right now, Chanel, to talk aboutwhat you are currently working
on, and then we'll link your biosomewhere in the description
box.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Okay.
Sounds good.
That's actually great.
It's a lot easier to do it thatway.
Um, so hello everybody.
My name is Chanel Bebe.
I am artist, a writer, educator,um, a researcher activist.
Um, I'm from Detroit, Michigan.
Um, my pronouns are she her andhers.
Uh, I identify as a woman, butalso as two spirit, um, which
(01:46):
you can do some research on.
Um, my ethnicity is AfricanAmerican, black, any black,
black, black, black, black.
Um, but I also identify as, um,indigenous, um, I'm from a few
different tribes.
The one I know about right nowis the Choctaw tribe.
Um, so yeah, that's who I am.
Um, I am the founder and CEO ofa small business out of Detroit,
(02:09):
um, called BB arts LLC.
And what we do is social andeducational equity.
So we do programs, we do content, um, anything research,
whatever is needed related tothose two concepts.
Um, right now I'm working onreleasing a magazine that was
going to come out on June 13th.
Um, the magazine is calledbitten, um, B I T T E N, like
(02:32):
the past tense of bite.
Um, and the magazine is allabout just collecting the things
that I've learned and trying toput them, um, in a beautiful way
and trying to make it somethingthat people can pick up and
enjoy looking at, but also learnsomething from, um, something
that's related to whateverthey're going through right now.
Um, so it's going to be aquarterly magazine.
(02:52):
Um, in the past I did anewsletter for my company in a
quarterly fashion as well.
Um, and that was just updatingthem about stuff that I was
doing.
Um, so the magazine will stillhave elements of that, but it
will be more so focused oncontent, um, content and really
art.
So it's going to be greatcontent, but also, um, the first
issue will be very much me.
(03:13):
So if you want to hear myopinions about things for real,
for real pick up the magazine.
Um, so it's, I have a lot of myartwork and a lot of content
will be generated by me.
Um, but also we'll have some,um, photography by, uh, Detroit
artists by the name of KingChloe Katz.
Um, also we'll have some piecesof the content that have been
contributed, um, from, uh,homeys.
(03:34):
I asked some friends and Gary,um, to for instance, st.
Louis.
Um, so yeah, it's going to be alittle collaborative, but in the
future it's going to besignificantly more
collaborative.
So the first issue is just kindof a, here we are, this is what
we do.
Um, and then we'll be allowingpeople to, you know, do their
own editorials to submit theirown articles.
Um, ideally, you know, it'llhave less and less of my artwork
(03:55):
in it and more and more ofcommunal art.
Um, so I'm excited about it.
That's really what I've beenspending my time on lately.
Um, so I'm excited to be able tokind of talk about that here,
but also just to continue to getmy voice out, you know, so I
appreciate the opportunity to beon this podcast, um, because I
learned from you a lot, likewe've been friends for awhile,
but I also learned from the wayyou learn, you know, so I'm like
(04:18):
excited for this conversation.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Thank you.
I really do appreciate that.
And I'm happy to have you on asone of my first guests, like it
immediately when I thought of,okay, I'm building a platform
for people to come on for our,our, um, voices to be heard and
to be protecting, I was like,okay, one of the biggest voices
in my life that I'm alwayslistening to and tuning into, no
matter what channel that is,whether it's the magazine, it's
(04:44):
the social equity firm.
I am digging into it to see whatI'm learning and, and how she's
feeding us.
Um, and then how can we giveback and feed her as well?
So, um, I really brought you on,because I wanted to have you
talk about the black body, um,and how this current movement at
(05:04):
hand is affecting our bodies.
So, um, you can start with firstby probably talking about how
you've realized as theindividual, this entire movement
has affected your body.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Mm.
Yeah.
It's easier to talk about mybody than the whole black body.
Um, my body is healing.
Um, and recently I've made thehealing of my body, my primary
job.
(05:37):
Um, and that has been aninteresting shift.
Um, but I don't think I'm alonein that shift.
It seems like, um, black bodies,um, melanated bodies.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Empathetic bodies everywhere, kind of realizing
that like we have to be healing.
Um, so I guess when I thinkabout these times, how I'm
affected by it, I think that's,what's mainly been happening.
It's been sending me insidemyself.
Um, I've been just becoming moreaware of how I feel, how my body
holds those feelings, um,because I w you know, when you
(06:14):
see what you see when you see apandemic, when you see, um,
continued racism matched with,you know, uprising trying to
reconcile that racism, um, yourbody, my body wants to help.
It wants to be a part it wantsto forward these things.
(06:38):
Um, But in that same moment thatyou see that and want to do
those things, you also realizedthat you can only do those
things with your body, you know,so I think it's definitely sent
me to realize that, like, mybody is my instrument for this
thing.
And if I don't take care of mybody, I can't help therefore
taking care of my body can, andshouldn't be my first job.
Um, and that's, that's aconstant paradigm shift, you
(06:59):
know, every day I have to remindmyself to check in, but, um, I
think the greatest effect thatthese times I've had on me and
my body has been my relationshipbetween myself and my body.
Um, and how important that feelsnow and how sacred it feels now.
Um, and really how celebratoryit can feel, because the freedom
(07:20):
that my ancestors have beenfighting for, um, was all about
Their kids being able to feelsafe in their bodies.
Um, so I've been trying to liketap into that, you know, as
often as I can.
Um, But that's just my body, youknow, that's just my conception
(07:43):
of bodies right now.
Um,
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So, um, can you dive into more detail about maybe the
physical aspect, emotional andspiritual aspect of how your
body has been affected by theseuprisings and in, in a way for
me, the way I've been, you know,using it as a term, I feel like
a rebellion is more so a, uh,proper way to conceptualize and
(08:07):
happening right now, but how areyou effecting on most three
planes?
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I would say first I'm affected intellectually.
Um,
Speaker 5 (08:21):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (08:21):
The language to describe what is playing out.
Um,
Speaker 5 (08:32):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Feels a thousand percent more significant than it
did pre George Floyd.
Um, the language was stillimportant, then it still
mattered then
Speaker 5 (08:53):
[inaudible].
But I think because we are,
Speaker 4 (08:56):
We had only really seen protest be protests in the
town that had happened in, andmaybe sometimes, sometimes a few
solidarity things, you know,because protest was a good
enough word before Joyce Florida, we have protests, we have
black lives matter, you know, wehave racism.
Um, and we knew about riots.
You know, we knew that there hadhappened.
(09:17):
If you studied a little bit ofhistory, you maybe have known a
little bit about the differentrace Wars that have happened.
Maybe a little bit about therebellions, but most people know
, riots, racism, protests, um,maybe Colin Kaepernick, right.
Um, intellectually now, um,because of how pervasive the
(09:40):
response to the pandemic ofracism has been because of how,
um, widespread, you know, thesetechnically just protest are,
uh, everybody is realizing Ican't just call them protest.
You know, I can't just call it.
Uh, I, you know, I could call itan uprising, you know, uprising
really just defines the originalaction.
(10:01):
I could call it a riot, but riotjust defines a piece of the
action.
I would call it a protest, butprotest really just defines, you
know, in some context, just theMarch, you know, um, I could
call it a reckoning, you know,but reckoning defines, wants to
work, has already been done.
So none of these words really,um, by themselves are whole, um,
(10:26):
and I'm appreciative that peoplearen't being careful about how
they're describing it and peopleare kind of taking the time to
get not necessarily politicallycorrect, but just to try to be
as intentional and impeccablewith their words as possible.
Um, but I'm also aware thatintellectually, this is a time
where we need to let stories bestories and stop trying to find
(10:46):
the right word and the whitephrase and let a collection of
phrases let a collection ofvoices, let a collection of
feelings be what defines rightnow.
Um, because
Speaker 6 (11:04):
[inaudible],
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I don't think any of us really wants this to be that
one uprising in our kids'textbooks.
You know, we don't want it to bethat one time that we said
something and then nothingreally changed.
I think all of us are like, no,this is it.
You know, we doing it.
This is we, we we're changing itnow, you know, and if we're
changing it now, then it needsas many words as possible.
(11:29):
It needs as many perspectives aspossible.
It needs as many descriptions oflifestyles before and afterwards
we need to make explicit, um,what it is that's changing, you
know, and I think that thatIntellectual And, um, linguistic
(11:52):
effect is what's affecting methe most.
Um, and as what will affect ourchildren the most.
Um, so that's what I'm mostfocused on.
Um, but in being focused onthat, like I said, my body is an
instrument through which I cando that.
Right.
So, um, I think physically notjust my body, but I think, um,
(12:14):
within the bodies of anybodymelanated and anybody who cares
about anybody, myelinated, um,we're processing what to do with
justified anger, we'reprocessing what to do with an
undeniable call to action andchange.
Um, and if you think of your,our bodies as machines with
(12:39):
parts, um, if we think of ourbodies as machines with, you
know, gears in them, and you canthink of those gears as wheels
or as energy motions, you canalso think of those gears as
chakras, but your gears weregoing a certain way in a certain
direction, within a certaincontext.
However, for having long, theywas doing that before George
(13:01):
Floyd, then these things havehappened, right?
And now your body wants to go adifferent way, but an object in
motion stays in motion unlesssomething sends it another way.
So you've been sent in otherway, but you still have to like,
your body remembers thedifference in those feelings,
right?
And I think physically, ourbodies are now experiencing that
(13:24):
paradigm shift.
Um, our bodies are experiencingthat intellectual mucky area.
I was just talking about, um, Ithink physically people are
reacting to it with whateverthey, whatever they have at
their hands.
You know?
So if, if you are in a body thatdoes not necessarily identify
with the violence that you'veseen, um, chances are your body
(13:45):
is angry and ready to act.
Um, and looking for ways to usewhatever resources and whatever
influence you have to dosomething about this
systemically.
Um, if you are in a body thatdoes identify with the violence
you've seen, um, you're doingthose same things, but you also
(14:06):
are, are, um, Sitting on fire,you're sitting on a big ball of
uncertainty, a big ball of alack of safety, a big ball of
potential violence that hasreally always been there.
Um, and if your body is adescendant of the transatlantic
(14:26):
slave trade, your body knows itreally, really well.
Um, and that ball up until thispoint for a lot of people, that
ball has been invisible, unlessyou also had that ball.
Um, but now you are seeing thatlike, Oh, everybody's sitting on
fire.
You know, there's a reason whyBaldwin called it the fire next
time.
You know, there's a reason whyprotests have the element of
(14:53):
fire in them because when yourbody doesn't feel safe, your
shopper or your bottom one thatconnects you to this art, it
gets either inflamed or it getsreally, really tight and either
way is going to make its way tofire at some point.
Um, so I think the bodies that Iknow of nobody's that, that
(15:15):
looked like me were figuring outwhat to do with that fire or
figuring out how to sit, how torest, how to breathe and how to
transmute the justified anger,the justified fear, the justify,
developing hatred into somethingthat's useful into something
(15:38):
that doesn't make more fire.
And if it does, it makes firethat is cleansing and not just
for the sake of more fire.
So in that regard, you know, Ithink black bodies everywhere,
hard to speak to, you know, butI'll say that if your body
identifies with the body, asyou've seen with somebody's knee
(16:01):
on their neck for eight minutes,then you're dealing with some
fire.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah.
And I would just say everyonewho I've personally talked to
him within my own network, who,you know, our bodies are similar
or they identify with a similarbody.
Um, it's kinda like it's acollective, um, I dunno, it's
been like a collective pressure,like a collective judgment that
(16:28):
there is something that's waybigger than just, okay, it's me.
It's, you know, it almost feltlike everyone I reached out to,
they were that we wereexplaining, um, and describing
similar, I don't know that ourbody, like similar symptoms of
whatever was going on.
Um, the, the, the, cause of allthis, it was like, we were all
(16:51):
experiencing like this massscale of the similar side
effects, um, for justintellectually and mentally, we
were jumbled, like I want towork.
And I was speaking to my vicepresident and she happens to be
a woman with African Americandescent.
And she was talking about how,Whoa, like you literally just
described my week to a T.
(17:12):
And I told her, well, Monday, Icouldn't think I couldn't
formulate like simple, you know,I couldn't connect to simple
pieces, like work that I was soeasy to me coming in Monday.
It did not make sense to me.
It felt like the hardest thingand just completing a simple
test.
It, it felt like it was exertinga huge amount of energy.
Um, and then I described myTuesday being like this, this
(17:34):
breaking point to where it waslike, I didn't realize how much
of whatever it is I was holdingon to.
Um, and, and, and she was like,Whoa, like, I really felt like
that too.
And then we hit that breakingpoint and then it was like,
okay, what are we doing totransfer this energy or a
transmitted and let it out.
And it was definitely like a, ascream, cry, the acknowledgement
(17:57):
of ancestors going to theancestors, trying to perform a
ritual that the cleanse myselfin to get this out of me.
And, and it was, it was hard, um, coming out of that weekend
with the initial.
Um, and I, I love the way youdescribed it as being a
collective of words.
Cause I think it, in fact onthat weekend, it was all of
those things.
Cause in some places it was justa protest.
(18:18):
In some places it was protestsand riots.
In some places, it almost feltlike a rebellion because it was
a, uh, a fighting, uh,interaction between this state
sanctioned, um, institution andbetween the people just black
people.
It wasn't just white people, butit,
Speaker 4 (18:35):
It was just people.
It was people, you know, and Ithink, um, people have a body
that has to process thesethings.
And, you know, I think we had asimilar process when the
pandemic started to affectbusinesses.
Um, the first time you heardabout it, you like, whatever, I
(18:57):
don't got nothing for this.
I don't seem like I should sayanything second time.
I'll be like, what are we reallyabout to, this is what's
happening.
Eventually, eventually you getmad, you know, eventually you're
like, wait a minute, wait, wait,wait.
So I can't.
So I can't do none of theprojects.
I can go to the places I can'tdo the thing.
Um, and then eventually you'relike, Oh, we independent.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah.
It goes back to what you weresaying with like the wording and
the phrasing, because at firstpeople were just saying, ha,
it's just the flu.
It's like the fluids, but deal.
And next thing I know over thecourse of like three days, I'm
working from home for two monthsand I'm like, and then I'm like,
my short film has been pausedbecause we can't gather people
(19:44):
personally and lost two familymembers.
And I was just like, just tryingto conceptualize, like what just
happened.
And we didn't chance to really,I didn't even get a chance.
I don't know, speak for myself.
I didn't get a chance to fullyheal from that.
And here I come smack
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, I mean, it's, yeah, it's hard to heal from
anything when something else wasalready happening.
Um, and I think, you know, whenwe were talking about before
this, we were talking about, um,y'all missed a great
conversation before this podcaststarted.
Um, and I think we'll make thatavailable in some way, but we
were talking about the idea ofholidays, um, and the idea of
like collective experiences.
(20:22):
Um, and I think, you know, whatwe, what we experienced with
that pandemic, what weexperienced, what we have been
experiencing with racism, youknow, pre Joyce George floor,
but also, you know, to thisdeeper extent with George,
George Floyd, um, is thiscollective knowing and
processing and giving betterlanguage to, you know, and as
much as I fought the media forhow they do what they do, um,
(20:45):
the media is a reflection of ourown stupidity and our own
inability to grasp and to do ourown research.
And to really want somebody tojust tell me what to call it.
People are getting sick aroundme.
It looks like the flu.
We just wanna call it the flu.
That's fine.
I know what the flu is.
That's cool.
Okay.
More people are dying that havedied before, which I say it was
Corona.
All right, rolling.
(21:06):
That's cool.
That's cool.
People keep dying.
This COVID like now, now, nowpeople are just calling it COBIT
and it's like, it's because weneed time to process.
What's happening to give it abetter language to defend the
term of how we want to respondto it.
But in that whole time, you'renot healing from it.
You're just knowing about it.
(21:28):
You're learning about it andyou're dealing with it, but your
body hasn't done anything withthat energy, but put it
somewhere in your body, youknow, your body park, like you
might not be able to commentcompartmentalize, but your body
knows how to just store someunfixable, uncertain thing in
your shoulder, somewhere or inyour head.
Usually it puts it in yourstomach.
(21:49):
The stomach likes to haul a lotof those kinds of anxieties.
Um, and that's, that's, what'sbeen my concern.
Like I trust my people.
I trust the people I trust, um,humanity to reckon itself.
Um, but I don't trust humanityto heal itself.
I don't trust humanity to takethe time to acknowledge what
(22:09):
they need as they arerecommending itself.
Um, so that's been, let's facethat I'm putting myself in.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I think that's a perfect way to segue into
another question I wanted to askyou.
So you're talking about thiscollectiveness and how the
energy has been stored somewherein our body and it's been
compartmentalized.
So how do you think this isgonna affect the future
generations of people who looklike us and people who come from
(22:35):
us, um, our children or niecesor nephews, um, just that next
generation.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Mmm.
That's going to affect thembased off how it affects us.
So based off the work we do ordon't do, um, that will be the
bodies that they inherit.
And those bodies will experiencethe world that we did or did not
work on.
And those bodies will respond tothat.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Based off the T the tools that we did or did not
handle them.
Um, and a lot of ways, I feellike we use the perspectives and
the experiences of our futuregenerations, um, to dream, but
we don't use them to holdourselves accountable.
Um, and I think everybody wantsto talk about what's next.
Everybody wants to imagine theworld, they want their kids to
(23:29):
live in.
Um, but the last half of thatimagining is the walk back to
where we are now.
Right?
So I do a lot of work in designthinking.
I do a lot of work in socialproblem solving, um, and helping
people to out what they wouldlike to see done differently.
Um, and the hardest part of thatis figuring out, okay, now that
(23:51):
we know what the thing is thatwe want, what is the step in
between?
You know, and I think peoplehave a tendency to fix that on
either end of the spectrum.
So either fixate on this is whatI want it to be, or this is
where I am right now.
And if you look at this is whereI am right now, we really don't,
you know, that's complicated,you know, it's a complicated
series of steps.
(24:11):
And if I look at where they arein the future, And I stopped at
the conversation about it and Istopped at how it makes me feel,
I'm missing the opportunity tothink about
Speaker 5 (24:30):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (24:30):
What was the day before that, like for them?
Right.
So the day that I imagined mykids live in a world without
racism somehow, and they, youknow, they have options, they
have connections, their foodmakes sense.
They're living in a, in a worldthat is not being harmed by
their actions.
Um, how did they get there?
(24:53):
What was the, what was the daybefore that?
Like, is there a system, isthere a court?
Is there a agency?
Is, you know, what, what doesthat look like?
You know, and I think, um,however their life is going to
be experienced.
It's going to be determined byour ability to give them the day
before that, you know?
Um, and I know that's not like atechnical answer to the question
(25:14):
cause I could give you like myperfect idealized, what I want
my kids to experience a worldlike, but I think it's important
to first ground the fact that,um, Whatever we make for them,
They will have to experiencewith the bodies.
We give them, um, and bodiescarry trauma, right?
(25:34):
So let's say we make this greatworld and we never call them
down while we make it.
They're going to inherit thisgreat world with our stress.
Cause that's how the body works.
The body passes trauma throughyour genes.
You don't have a choice onwhether or not they get your
best or your worst.
They just get whatever they getfrom you.
Right.
(25:54):
Um, so as we're building what webuild, I think we do have to be
cautious about the bodies thatwe're passing off to people.
Um, and I think the best that wecan be cautious about that, you
know, you do want to be, youknow, pay attention to who you
make kids with.
Um, but also, um, think abouthow you're carrying your body.
And if your body is tight, ifyour body is unhealthy, if your
(26:15):
body is not moving the way youwant it to move, how can you
heal that now?
So that as you make thesechildren, they get the DNA of a
body that is healing and nothave a body that is working so
hard to heal society that is nothealing.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So what, what are we doing to make sure our bodies
are in the process of failing?
Or what are you doingspecifically to make sure your
body is in that process?
Then you're managing this energyto where you're, you're
cognitive of what you're on orwhat body you're passing on to
your children.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Um, I've decided that my first job is my own energy
management.
Um, so when I wake up, it's myjob to think about my body and
to feel what it needs.
Um, instinctively, most peopledo that anyway, cause you're
usually woke up cause you haveto be like, that's usually the
thing that pushes you out thebed for real, for real.
Um, but lately I've been tryingto wake up before my body has to
(27:11):
pee.
So not just lay down until mybody makes me get up, but just
kinda like, Oh, I'm kind ofawake.
Let me just lay here and hear mybody.
Um, but then after that,throughout the day, um, almost
ritualistic mindfulness, um, ina sense that when I feel a down
moment or when I'm not sure whatI'm doing next and just taking a
(27:33):
minute to breathe and to likethink through my body, like what
does anything hurt and have Ieaten?
Um, cause I've gotten to a pointI'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm
not trying to say that I'm thehealthiest, you know, me saying
that we should be healthy tobuild does not mean that I'm
healthy and should therefore bebuilding I'm really, um, I know
these things because I feel mybody when it builds.
(27:54):
Um, so the way my body works isI have been so stressed out
internally, um, that I don'treally get a good concept of my
own appetite.
So if I don't think about thelast time I ate my body won't
necessarily tell me it's hungry.
What'll happen is I'll just beirritated or frustrated.
Or I would have tried to dosomething beyond my energy
(28:16):
capacity and I'll listen to mybody and I won't really hear
much.
It'll just be kind of like, Hmm,nah.
Then I think about my stomach.
And I'm like, what's that whatyou're doing?
And not doing nothing causethere's nothing in there and
it's too tired to grow.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I found that I need to reset every day and that's
been part of my ritual, myritual having to find a way to
ground myself.
So I'm sitting there and I'mintentionally doing nothing and
existing and nothing.
And then I'm listening to music,I'm listening.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah.
And it sounds so food, food, itsounds so, you know, but it's
like the most profound thing.
And like once you figure out howto do it regularly, once you get
a discipline for it, you realizethat the food food is necessary
for the real, you know, like ifyou don't, if you don't fulfill
your body because the body isthe only simple part of life,
you know, your body is the onlypart that you can talk to and
convince that you feeldifferently.
(29:07):
Cause a song as thougheverything else was real.
You know?
So if you ain't, if you ain'tgot your body to a place where
it believes in is with you, forreal, not just cause yo yo
shoulders got up at your feet,started walking, but because
your actual heart and mind wantto go that way.
Then when you get there, you'rejust going to be mad that it
ain't fool, fool, you know likeyou just like, Oh, this life is
(29:27):
just all.
And it's like, yeah, it is.
But inside your body, there is abeautiful movie happening where
you get to determine how fastyou breathe.
You went to determine what youlook at.
You could determine what youthink about you.
You know, you can like, noteverybody can visualize, um,
there is a condition I thinkit's called Fantasia or
something.
Oh, well you get where peoplecan't build visualize, but you
can like control your attention.
(29:50):
Like it doesn't just have to beon phone screens.
Don't just gotta be about thenews.
It could just be a cartoon.
Cause you liked the way thatthat artist draws and it makes
your eyes feel good food foryour life away.
My love like the real world, youknow, my mom used to tell me
that when I was younger, like,you know, people be in such a
rush to grow up, but I promiseyou, the moment you grow up,
(30:10):
you're going to wish you was akid again.
And you know, you don't believeit, but it's like, yeah, the
moment you start interactingwith other people, you realize
that you can't control them.
You can't make that.
You can't change the tone oftheir voice.
You can't make them moreinteresting.
You can't control how they talk.
You can't control what theythink is okay to say, you just
got to listen to it.
Right?
And your body experiences thestress of that, you know, and
(30:31):
like introvert, extrovert,whatever everybody needs
healing.
You know, sometimes that healingis just talking to people.
You actually like sometimes thathealing is talking to nobody.
It really depends on what yourbody needs, but if you don't
give it what it needs eventually, um, your, the organs in your
body will feel it.
And I hate to sound sofatalistic.
But I be telling my family thisall the time.
(30:52):
Like if you don't heal, you'regoing to die soon.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
No, that's true.
I mean, it puts the amount ofstress on your body that
literally takes away blackpeople's lives.
So yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah.
You need to be eating right.
Yet.
If you need to be a nice person.
Yeah.
And you also need to bestretching and breathing
regularly.
I'm sorry that there is anoption about it.
I'm sorry that, you know,mindfulness and meditation was
presented to black people assomething Asian and then
something white, but Hey,comedic people were doing it.
Our ancestors were doing it.
(31:23):
They have their own concept of ayoga flow.
This is it's black to do it.
You don't got a choice.
Brush your teeth, touch yourtoes.
Like it's not an option.
It's not fancy.
It's not cute.
It's not gentrified.
It's not bougie.
Like it is necessary to brushyour teeth.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
When you get into, into some kind of alignment with
your body, your body will tellyou exactly what you should be
doing.
If your body getting stiff,getting hard, it's telling you,
okay, maybe I need to dosomething else and move around.
Especially working from home.
Oh my God.
My body was getting stiff.
And I'm like, yeah, I got to dosomething.
(32:08):
I got to stretch.
The next thing I know my leg ison my mini fridge.
While after this, after a coupleof days, it's like, Oh yeah, my
buddy actually needed thisregularly.
My cousin was saying, um,
Speaker 4 (32:24):
She was like, I don't know if black women know this,
but like the more you shake yourbutt, the more money you make.
And I was like, what are youtalking about?
And she was like, no, you ain'teven got to do it.
I only fan.
It's just like the more, themore you move your body, the
more aligned you become yourbody.
The better you use your body,the more money you make.
And I was just like,
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Look, I'm telling you sometime in the morning torque
sessions, when you, when youfill in, when you feel like that
, Allen and you just
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Man, just catch yourself in the mirror at one
time and just start dancing.
No knowing that you don't feelgood knowing that you irritated
knowing it's a pandemic now onthis uprising, knowing that the
president that controls a goodportion of his world is who he
is.
Knowing all that stuff.
We get yourself and then do alittle shoulder something and it
will amuse the fuck out of you.
(33:12):
Like in your body.
We'll play it.
Look at your body.
Has the functionality, a childlike we'd like to, we other
children, we make children likethe under devolved of all
version of us.
But children really know how touse their body.
Children got a good concept ofwhat this life is about because
they don't got no concept ofwhat these bills is about.
So they get it, they get it.
They get that.
The body is about breathing andplaying and laughing and
touching and eating things thattaste good.
(33:34):
And you know, try not to get introuble.
That's all it.
That's all.
It really is.
They get it, they get up andthey play and they poke you in
an oath, poke yourself in themouth.
That's all I'm saying.
Like every cause when you putyourself in the nose, you're
gonna realize that you kind oftight, you bent over.
You're gonna wiggle a littlebit.
You're gonna stretch.
You know, it doesn't have to bea 30 minute yoga, yoga video
every day.
(33:55):
It don't gotta be an hour longmeditation.
It really just needs to be.
As often as you can remember it,breathe, listen to yourself,
move your body stretch.
You know?
And that's, I mean, that's myinternal effective way, um, that
I've noticed.
Um, cause there's a lot of otherenergy that needs to be managed,
(34:16):
you know?
Um, but you know the serenityprayer, you have to understand
what it is that you can change.
And the thing that youdefinitely can change is you and
your body.
And if not, you know, if you tryit and it's difficult, build
community, reach out for helpask somebody.
There are therapists.
There are, especially nowthere's a lot of free.
Like people you can talk tothat, won't judge you.
(34:36):
And I don't like to tell yourbusiness and nobody, if you
can't get in your body, if everytime you try to breathe, you
start crying or you get mad.
Go talk to somebody about that.
That's your body telling youwhat it needs.
It didn't need to stretch.
It didn't need to play in amirror.
It needed to talk like that's,that's what that is.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Hmm.
Wow.
Yeah.
I think that's beautiful.
Um, so before we just wrap uphere for this episode, cause you
are coming back, um, what'ssomething you want the audience
to leave with.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Trust yourself,
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Listen to yourself.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
[inaudible]
Speaker 4 (35:18):
And that belief in yourself is not just an emotion.
It's a committed and regularaction.
If you really believe, and youreally trust yourself, then you
regularly take care of yourselfbecause you believe in the work
that you have to do with that,buddy.
I think a lot of us have beentaught that our value is in the
(35:43):
work that we do.
Um, and if that's true, then thedeeper value has to be in the
body that does that work.
So trust yourself, listen toyourself.
Believe in yourself enough totake care of yourself.
I think that's what I would say,period.
That's it.
(36:04):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to come back.
No problem.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
[inaudible].
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