December 11, 2024 • 51 mins
Get ready to unlock the secrets of the concrete industry with our guest, Bobby, an experienced subcontractor who has spent years mastering the art of concrete construction. Discover the nuances of working in this challenging field, from the demanding schedules and unpredictable weather conditions to the intricacies of cast-in-place versus precast concrete. Bobby brings his expertise in specialized areas like sewer and storm drain systems to the table, offering invaluable insights on the importance of specialization and the significant impact of rising costs on the industry.
In our conversation, we tackle the stigma surrounding blue-collar workers, especially those in construction, and highlight the craftsmanship and precision required to excel. Through Bobby’s experiences, we explore the meticulous work involved in building structures such as lift stations and manholes, and the dedication needed to integrate new builds with existing infrastructures. The discussion also challenges societal perceptions and emphasizes the crucial role skilled workers play in both the economy and our everyday lives, advocating for a shift in how these essential workers are viewed and valued.
Finally, we compare the paths of skilled trades and traditional college education, highlighting the benefits of pursuing a hands-on career. With personal stories and hard-earned lessons, we delve into the challenges of being a small business owner during the COVID-19 pandemic, navigating increased demand, and the relentless push for excellence. This episode is a testament to resilience, strong work ethic, and the commitment required to thrive in the concrete industry. Whether you're in the trade or simply curious, this episode promises to offer a deeper appreciation for the hard work and dedication that goes into shaping our built environment.
Sy-Con is a family-owned civil contractor specializing in water, sewer, storm drains, & earthwork.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
, where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Thank you, guys, so much forchecking back with us here.
In another episode of the BlueCollar Business Podcast we are,
I'm going to say, roughly man.
We've got eight or nineepisodes in the tank and I'm
hoping you guys are findingvalue in each and every one of
(00:50):
these episodes, bringing yousome type of blue collar
business strategy.
Today we are talking in theworld of concrete and being a
concrete subcontractor and Ireally hope you concrete guys
find some interesting info.
I had to bribe my concrete subbasically to get in here and I
(01:13):
really appreciate you comingbuddy, but I got to tell you
here in Northwest Arkansas ourspec is quite a bit different
than most of, I guess, the lower48.
A lot of part of the country,and let us know in the comments
below on what part of thecountry is cast in place
concrete, because right here innorthwest Arkansas manholes are
(01:36):
cast in place, storm boxes arecast in place, everything
concrete structure-wise.
Essentially there's someprecast stuff that some of the
cities here will allow us to use, but normally it's hey Bob, I
don't know what this box youhave to come do this box, I
don't know what I'm doing, andBobby comes out there and picks
(01:58):
apart the engineered drawing andgets us on the go.
But a couple of topics I wantto cover today.
We're going to be talking aboutthe stigma with concrete work
and concrete workers in general.
There's some of the hardestworking guys out there, as we
all know, have to deal withcrazy time slots and concretes
and big pours and how theweather affects it and it's just
(02:21):
crazy, a crazy life to live ingeneral.
And it's just crazy a crazylife to live in general.
We're going to be talking aboutfactors that affect price in
general cast and plays versusprecast.
Let's talk about the costincreases that we've dealt with
in concrete over the last seven,eight years.
We're going to be talking aboutspecializing in a niche business
(02:41):
like Bobby.
But, as they say, there'sriches in the niches and Bobby
is a premium niche and he'sextremely good at what he does
and we wouldn't be hardlyanywhere without him laying
sewer, doing any storm drain, etcetera.
Everything's cast in placeevery type of junction area,
(03:01):
inlet, curb, inlet.
So if you guys haven't seenwhat I'm talking about, you can
go check it out from thepresenting sponsor today psycon,
excavation and utilities.
Um, we have a youtube channelwith roughly about 22 000 23 000
subscribers on there.
Go jump over there.
There's plenty of what bobbydoes, plenty of his structures
(03:22):
that have been poured on there.
But furthermore, before we getofficially introduced, make sure
you guys head over toBlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom, if
you like.
Hearing about the blue collarwork in space, I'm trying to
integrate the white collar intohelp business owners like me and
Bobby try and get a little bitbetter at what we do, Because
(03:43):
there's not a whole lot of folksout there trying to help, you
know, help us succeed in thebusiness part.
We're good at our trade, butthey're not necessarily anybody
out there trying to help us withbusiness.
And that's what this podcast isto shed light on some of my
failures and inadequacies, and Ifigured you'd get a jiggle out
(04:04):
of that, but you know what I'mtrying to learn and I have
learned every single podcast.
I've sat down with every singleone of my guests.
I'm learning and I hope youguys are out there learning as
well.
So, furthermore, mr bobby,freaking booer with booer
construction, the man, the myth,the legend, the concrete name
(04:25):
around here for a long, longtime Thank you, man.
Yes, sir, let's talk about kindof how we met each other.
I can tell you from my side itwas a God-given deal because I
was working with a concretesubcontractor who had just
started out, was trying to poursome manholes.
(04:48):
You came in behind.
You remember that job.
We'll not name that one but Ihad no idea about the concrete
structure world, nor was Itrying to get into it, but I was
trying to trust the wrongpeople.
I trying to get into it, but Iwas trying to trust the wrong
people.
I can't say they werenecessarily the wrong people,
but maybe not as much practiceof the art as somebody like
(05:10):
yourself, but I was walked intothis.
We had this ADS drainagestructure.
If you remember I think DollarTree was kind of the first go
around and we had 700, we had384 linear feet of 3x5x6 box
culvert double stacked rightnext to each other and we had
(05:33):
these ginormous DOT rated boxeson both ends.
That job was freaking crazy andI was scared to death because I
had some manholes go really badwith that said contractor,
subcontractor Concrete Wise, andI was scared to death.
I had this really $1 job comingthrough and I knew I needed to
(05:56):
be teamed up with the right guy.
And you called me like out ofthe blue, from we're not going
to name any names but from someother subcontractor
relationships weren't going sowell and that opened up an
avenue for me and I, by God,jumped all over it and I've
tried to be better than them.
(06:16):
Guys, of course.
But man, these subcontractorrelationships, guys, I can't
preach to you guys enough.
I talk about relationships.
It's not everything, but, man,it sure is a whole hell of a lot
to do with business, and Bobbycan't do work without the pipe
guys and the pipe guys can't dowork without Bobby, and so it's
(06:39):
this relationship that you haveto play.
But there's also some lines ofrespect that we had to learn as,
being a subcontractor like, hey, this is the third time I'm
calling you for an elevationstake.
For the love of God, will youtell your boys to give me an
elevation stake and a CMA ring,and it was things like that.
(07:01):
Man, it's been such a funchallenge over the last two
years of navigating this.
It hasn't been a challenge,it's been a freaking blessing
the whole time, challenging frommy standpoint because I want to
be the contractor that can payyou in 10, 15 days, but at the
same time I'm going throughthese growing pains and dealing
(07:24):
with what I'm dealing with.
But we've navigated ourrelationship that I don't think
many can say they have.
Would you agree?
Yeah, absolutely, and I thinkthat takes a big give and take
back and forth.
I've got to give a little,bobby's got to give a little
forth.
I've got to give a little,bobby's got to give a little.
(07:46):
And, man, it's saved my butt.
Dollar tree is what I'm tryingto get at.
I would be hosed.
I wouldn't have got that jobdone.
We took on an undergrounddetention system and looked like
a giant septic tank but it hadabout eight concrete.
Well, it probably wasn't thatmany, but there was several
concrete structures as thingsdrained in and interdrained and
etc.
(08:06):
Etc.
And you really helped us, andespecially those do2 boxes.
But, man, concrete work, dude,tell us, tell us a little bit
how you guys started uh, my, mydad always did concrete work,
the man.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And uh, when I was a kid, that's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to do what dad did.
I didn't like school, I knew so, no college, no, I knew it.
I remember my dad saying whenme and my brother graduated are
you guys going to school or areyou gonna work?
(08:41):
And we said no, we hate school,we're not going, said I think
we.
We got out of school on likemaybe a friday and he said okay,
well, there's work truckwaiting outside for you guys for
monday.
And so we tried telling him no,we're gonna take a week or two
off before.
And and that's when he told usno, you're in the real world now
.
You work for a living.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah did he make you pay rent at home while you were
working?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
well, well, we moved out maybe a week or two before
school was out, but it was justin one of his houses, right, we
had to rent from him.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You bet, I know that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, so he gave us a break, but he also wanted to
keep us close, to make sure wewere at work every day.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And you were doing.
Back then you guys were working, you were doing a bunch of curb
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Oh, we support a ton of curb Bunch, A ton of curb
with curb machine.
So the whole time my dad wasrunning everything he loved curb
and getter.
We wanted to run that curbmachine nonstop.
Since I've kind of transitionedto things.
It's more storm boxes andmanholes, you know.
And now when we were working,when my dad was running saying
(09:52):
we still did a lot of stormboxes but we didn't really do
anything with sewer right you'vekind of perfected the manhole
game, buddy.
There's no.
Yeah, I was.
I remember telling him like I'mgonna go do some manholes and
his advice to me was you betterget it right the first time and
you know what.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
That's exactly why I use you time and time again,
brother, because I don't knowabout you guys.
You pipe utility guys,listening.
But if you've had a leakymanhole or a bad manhole,
listening.
But if you've had a leakymanhole or a bad manhole, it's
usually not in the most easyaccess location where you can
just dig it right back up andfix it.
(10:32):
It's usually the booger thatwas poured 20 months before any
concrete or asphalt hit the job.
And now some, for some reason,we're just getting around to
testing and then there's anissue.
So I have played the leakymanhole game and I, I guess I
guess a lot of places in thecountry.
Bobby, we sit here and talkabout it, but the leaky manhole
(10:54):
game and cast in place is is abad game to play.
You do not want to do it twice,you, you don't.
Nobody makes money doing thingstwice, but I guess would it not
be weird?
And in the precast world, Imean, how would their tests go?
I mean just, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I mean they don't really allow, especially in
sewer.
They never allow it around here, but there are places that they
do.
So how do they pressure?
I mean they, well, they'regoing to have to just there's
probably a little more lenienceon it going to have to just
there's probably a little morelenience on it because you are
plugging around the pipes, youare doing you still got to get
inside and pour floor to matchyour flows.
(11:31):
Do they?
Do they?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
still do brick floors in some parts of these
countries and mortar brickfloors in there, like up in the
northeast all of.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's crazy.
This is arkansas.
They're super strict on it.
Yes, they don't even want togive you a chance to fix one
hard.
Nope If it's leaking.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
They want it ripped out and and you know what, from
being on the municipality gameand being starting out in my
career, I get it they're havingto service it for the longevity
longevity of that manhole 20, 30years, right.
And so if it's already having alittle bit of problems from the
start, they know it's going tohave problems for forever and
(12:07):
they've got to deal with it.
But at the same time, give aman I mean we're not perfect,
we're going to make a fewmistakes here and there and at
least give us a chance to fixthat mistake before we just rip
it out.
These manholes ain't cheap andwhen you're digging them out and
then you're ripping them outand then redoing it twice,
(12:28):
nobody ever makes any moneydoing anything twice.
But it's just such an insaneprocess to not get wrong you
can't get it wrong.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, and as much concrete as they want in the
base of them.
Today it costs a fortune Twohooders, yeah, it's cost a
fortune two hooders.
Yeah, and cost a fortune.
Then you got if you got a redoand you got your machines for
and then you got sewer line, yougot to replace.
It's costly effect on everybodyand it's never uh.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
When you're in the sewer world, it's never uh you
know a couple grand situation.
It's always a five, 10, $50,000conversation.
Really quickly, you're I mean,if you're pouring an 18 foot
deep manhole and it was in twopiece or whatever you had to
pour six foot IOD man, I mean itcan get crazy, yeah.
And you've poured a bunch oflift stations too.
(13:18):
Yeah Right, fair share of liftstations, that's uh, that's one
game we've.
We've done nothing real crazy.
We've helped on a few liftstations.
Let's put it that way.
I can't say psycon has done alift station but, um, definitely
have the people in place to doone, now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Um, but yeah, you can pour eight, eight foot we can
pour four foot, five foot, sixfoot and eight foot round boxes,
oh my god.
And then we build square onesto unlimited size.
Yeah, whatever literally.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I don't know if that even computes to some of you
guys, but they'll.
There will be forms and it'll.
It'll look like a medusa ofwood ready to take form for
walls or floor et cetera, andthey will literally pour all the
walls in place per grade, perelevation, all of it.
(14:13):
And it's a craft, a masteredcraft that few have figured out.
You can do it.
You can do it okay, but doingit well, doing it the first time
and walking away from it andknowing you've made money is a
totally different thing, dude,and the manhole game, that's a
(14:35):
different conversation.
But stormboxes and you've got alittle bit more leniency there
there's not as much strict, youknow, it's just more or less
pouring some concrete and if youknow how to form it correctly
and not blow out and um, butwhere Bobby helps me in a storm,
you guys got to understand whenwe're saying cast in place,
we're pouring from the curb, um,curb inlets and area inlets,
(15:00):
like it's all got to meet, ofcourse, top grade, and if you
pour too high walls, your lid'sgoing to be too high, your box
top's going to be too high oryour throat may not be right.
You may have to, and we werejust talking about this last
week, how Bentonville requiresyou stop short of the curb and
(15:22):
curb has to be there before youcan pour the throat of a curb
inlet.
And me and bobby are on aproject right now and it's in
between some phasing, let's putit that way and there's a
section with a box that we'vepoured because we had to finish
out our public storm run but wecan't pour a top on it without
(15:44):
pouring a throat on it.
But there's no curb going inthat phase section.
So we're kind of, of course, anowner wants he wants it, you
know, the liability to be gone,he wants to put a top on it, etc
.
But at the same time it's it'sgoing to cost him twice as much
by the time he gets it actuallyput on there if we don't wait
(16:05):
until we put the curb.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, Anytime you put the top before the curb you
risk the liability of alignmentand grade being correct.
It's hard, man In northwestArkansas curb not straight,
hardly anywhere.
They love to put radiuses andthirds.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Islands and green spaces.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, dude, if the curve's there, then you just
match the curve and you justmove on, move on.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Well, seriously, my first topic of today so we were
kind of talking about it beforeis there's a stigma I've talked
about on this show so so manytimes about how you see a blue
collar guy five o'clock, ahundred degree, august day,
sweat.
(16:53):
He's ran out of sweat by thenand he's just dirty head to toe
every single day.
Um, but you run into at a gasstation, you're going to look at
him and go, oh, that guy's kindof dirty, but it doesn't.
You don't compute dirt to moneylike we do and that this but
it's.
We're looked down upon otherthan you know tradesmen, knowing
(17:15):
each other, you know I can lookat a concrete guy and go, oh,
there's a concrete guy.
And I can look at a framer andgo, that's probably a guy that
runs wood all day and you knowyou've got a pretty good
understanding.
But how do you overcome as abusiness owner and not just a
guy that goes out there and doesit, but as a business owner and
(17:35):
a concrete man, how do youovercome that stigma going home
dirty as crap every day?
What do you?
How do?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
you overcome it yeah I I mean, personally I that
stuff doesn't bother me as bad.
I mean, I I'm like thisthree-fourths of my life.
I'm usually dirty and I workevery day.
Yeah, whether it's take thekids, it's kids of sports or
whatever.
Afterwards, usually I'm in myboots and concrete clothes and
(18:08):
yeah, I'm usually covered in itand uh, it so to me.
In my eyes, that's, it's justwho I am.
I love it bub.
Uh, when I came here, I didn'trun home to switch clothes or
nothing.
I got them pouring concrete andas soon as we wrapped things up
and broomed it, it comes righthere.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You literally texted me.
You were like hey, bob, I'mpouring at one.
As long as concrete don't runlight, I'll be there and I'm
like this is awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's it.
Always waiting on concrete.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But there's definitely a look that you have,
I mean a thought process thatsomebody has about you.
Um, I mean I I'll go usually mywife's picking the kids up from
school, but if I do, you know,it's usually in the work truck,
in the form truck trailer behindme.
I'm filthy, uh, you know, I'mthe only one there that looks
like that.
Yep, but I mean, at the end ofthe day, there's a lot of trades
(19:06):
, whether it be concrete orlife's rule, mommy, whatever,
there's a million trades thatyou can go make money at and
make a living very quickly andyou're not in debt from school
or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
You can just go straight to work I talk about it
on the show and I wish morepeople understood and heard me
that man, four years of college.
We were just talking earlier,as I came into the studio, about
this workforce program here inSpringdale School District and I
was there yesterday and tryingto explain through these
(19:40):
seniors' minds of you can go tocollege, rack up debt for four
years, come out of college andmaybe have a job for the degree
that you chose, or you can be alikable, respectable human being
and go to any skilled tradearound here and go hey, I'd like
a job, please.
And I'll start from the bottom.
(20:01):
I don't know anything but I'dlove to learn and I promise you
you'll have a job before you canblink at any concrete company.
You know what I mean, buteverything is fast-paced in our
world, anyways.
But literally the collegeconversation when a man can go
out and him and a crew can cleara million dollars pretty quick
(20:24):
if he's a master at his trade.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, and that's within four orfive years.
Guys, now don't get me wrong, ittakes a lifetime to master a
trade.
I ain't no master pipe goddurrguy, nothing like that.
Now, I know a lot, don't get mewrong, but I still learn things
.
You know what I mean.
Now Bobby's been pouringconcrete.
(20:45):
He's a master of I'm tellingyou guys of the boxes and the
manholes, but it's so true to,the experience is priceless.
Education is expensive.
Topic is that you can.
You can go anywhere and as longas you are a respectable human
being and ask questions, you canpick anything up and as long as
(21:09):
you retain the information.
I think the biggest frustrationfor me and I think it would be
as you as well, bob is peoplenot retaining the information.
I don't like saying it sixtimes yeah, retaining the
information.
I don't like saying it sixtimes If I'm telling you hey,
every single day, we get out thetruck, get tape measure, we get
(21:30):
this tool, we get that tool andthat's what needs to be out.
Second day, a little reminderyeah, hey, forgot that tool.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Third day.
We better have tools out readyto go.
You know what I mean Quit toretain that information.
Well, I'm a micromanager,that's something that, uh, that
I need to work on, but I'm I'mthe first one there every day,
last one to leave, every 100percent.
Oh yeah, if I'm startingsomebody coming into this,
wanting to come into this field,or any field like this, if you
just show up every day, workhard, pay attention, I mean you,
because that's something thateverybody, that people are
(22:10):
lacking, dude, no one cares.
Everybody wants to pick thecell phone up 100 times
throughout the day.
Uh, so those, I mean justfinding somebody that was was
willing to work.
If you're starting at seveno'clock in the morning, then you
need to be on the job, toolsready, ready to go at seven.
Not, I am 15 minutes down theroad At 730.
(22:33):
Yeah, time is money foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And in the trades, as business owners like, we try
and enlighten them.
But the amount of money thatequates to our time is
ridiculous.
And if we're not moving andwhen we can be on this job right
here, because you know this isbillable, what you're working on
isn't billable, why you gotfive guys over here and it can
(22:57):
get out of hand really quick,you know as a business owner.
So I, what I'm trying to get atis that I feel for you.
In the micromanaging piece, ittook me a little bit of time to
figure out how to delegate.
And don't get me wrong, Ifigured out how to not delegate
and some of my systems fellright on their face.
But I'm currently in the middleof figuring out a few systems
(23:17):
for the size of company that weare.
But if you don't put those inplace it's hard to grow and
scale.
But are you thinking aboutanother crew anytime soon?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I don't know, it comes across.
If the right guy came across,right, that's right.
I mean, the right guy issomeone that's.
I made the comment to a guy theother day.
I don't know how thesecompanies are hiring somebody
and just telling them to go.
You know, go do that job and itbeing done correctly, because
I'm.
I get a lot of my work just offof reputation 100% Just doing
(23:55):
it like they, the othercontractor, they I might not be
the cheapest guy, but they knowthat I got to do it two or three
times You're dang right and,honestly, it's easy to sell to
GCs.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
from that standpoint, hey look, it does cost some
more money.
But guess what?
When it's poured, it's done.
We don't have to dick with itagain.
We don't have to worry about itnot failing or not passing a
test, a vacuum test, line,pressure test it's going to be
(24:27):
done and we can walk away fromit.
And that means a lot Time.
Money is a tool to buy time andit's just if everybody on the
project also views it that way.
You know what I mean.
So a lot of people go ahead.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, the owners always wanted the cheapest guy,
I mean the guy paying for it.
You know but a few badincidents.
And then they learn the cheapguy is not always the route to
go.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I can't even tell you guys, experience is freaking
priceless when it comes to that.
Because, oh, there is, there isdefinitely ways you can throw
together a manhole and you canrent the forms and and do it
yourself.
But I don't have any of my guysthat do concrete in general and
let alone I say that, okay,shout out to mr bill.
(25:07):
Bill's got an understanding ofconcrete.
He don't like foreign concretebut, um, he's kind of a jack of
all trades.
But, man, I want somebody.
Number one I probably need toshine some light on this dude.
I mean for, for being amicromanager though, you handle
it very freaking well.
(25:28):
You're always there, you canalways.
When I call the phone and hey,bob, I'm thinking about this, I
try to give you as much heads upas I can get.
And then I'm thinking aboutTuesday or Thursday.
What do you think?
Well, if you can get meinspection on Wednesday, I can
be there, and you're alwayswilling to think well, if you
can get me inspection onWednesday, I can be there, and
you're always willing to workwith me to try and figure out
(25:49):
how I can get my job done ontime.
And that's a big part of thatgive and take.
But, man, you, you never failto be there on time when you're
supposed to be.
I don't when I tell peopleBobby's doing it.
I don't have to sit there.
Bug Bobby, hey, show up.
Hey, I need you to's.
None of that.
You're there, you get it doneand you freaking walk away, and
(26:09):
I can't tell you how much thatmeans to any company out there,
but especially me.
So thank you for that, because,uh, I know how hard it is being
that guy and having three orfour and five and six people and
they're all relying on you andyou're trying to put everything
together for the next day andthen one guy, two guys, call in
and then you're like, well, dangit, I was just trying to get
(26:32):
ahead, and well, I appreciatethat.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
But I don't always make everybody happy by.
If they're wanting me theretuesday, you know I'm like, well
, you're not getting me tillThursday or Friday or something.
But people are different.
Some people will tell you whatyou want to hear to make you
happy.
For that moment, I'm just goingto be honest with you.
(26:55):
You have to.
If I'm not going to be there,I'll let you know ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yep, every time, every single time.
And that Dollar Tree job was a2021 job, 22, right at the end
of 21, it was cold as hell.
Um, anyways, we've been workingtogether two, two and a half
years and, uh, we should havefound you sooner, but let's talk
about.
We've been hitting around theold price and factor, but let's
(27:19):
talk about all you know, when Ifirst started dude eight, nine
years ago, mud was 85 a yardyeah, I can remember 40, 50
dollars a yard you know what Imean.
And here we are.
I'm paying north of 200 andsomething dollars, or just under
200, depending on where fromit's like it's crazy yeah, for
(27:42):
one yard of me it costs thematerialists outrage.
Just lumbers high, rebars highI just I don't understand how we
and I just got a concreteincrease last week yep, five
percent.
And I'm like, oh my god boys,like how do we even justify it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And they almost always hit you up January 1st
for another one.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And what are the factors you're seeing that's
driving the price?
You're maybe talking to somedevelopers here.
You may be talking to someinvestors here, and this is kind
of your chance to make surethey understand everything
involved in that price.
It's not just pouring a box.
You know what I mean?
(28:29):
Correct, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Well, we're pretty blessed in Northwest Arkansas
for a lot of construction, a lotof work, and that's a good
thing and a bad thing.
The bad thing you always have amillion companies that want to
start and want to come in tonorthwest arkansas.
Yep, and they come and they go.
But I mean, if you're trying tosell the job to somebody, you,
(28:55):
you, I'm not a talker, I, I meanyou know, I, I just shoot
people straight.
Yes, you do, sir.
Uh, when I'm I'm upset, peopleknow I'm upset.
When I'm not, they know it.
And there's jobs that I steeraway from.
I mean, you've seen that whensomebody starts trying to hound
(29:15):
you with too bad on the pricefor off the get-go, I'm just
like, nope, it's all been for me.
I go somewhere that I know Ican make money.
If I know I'm not making money,there's no reason to go try it.
I don't need to do it for free,I don't need the practice.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
No you do not and you can't lose money on a job you
didn't do.
Yeah, I read that about 18months ago and it's really stuck
in my head because I'm, as youknow, a yes man and I'm like, oh
, yes, sir, we can do that, wecan do this, we can do that.
Oh, and then some of thesituations I've got us in over
the years more Saigonspecifically oh, they're fun,
(29:53):
let me tell you.
But then you meet people likeBobby to bail you out and to
help you out along the way.
But, man, there was a littlebit of a sand.
What was it?
Fly ash or potash?
Fly ash for a while?
Yeah, hard to come by.
Was that in?
What is it?
21 or 22 or something like that?
Yeah, that was from the reveal.
Yeah, After COVID, I know COVIDchanged everything.
(30:16):
It literally changed everything, and I'm not blaming it just on
COVID here, guys, I'm justspeaking on the timeframe of
COVID, that 2021 thing.
Yeah, being a quote-unquoteessential worker, you didn't
stop, did you?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
No, we didn't miss a day.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I didn't miss a freaking day of work.
And I can't tell you the amountof people I paid to stay to sit
at home during that deal, so Ididn't end up.
I mean, the law was changingevery other day.
I didn't want to get sued byany of these and if they were
sick I just had guys that weresick four and five times.
Everybody that were sick fourand five times.
You know Everybody that wassick caught it, got a fever,
(30:53):
they stayed at home for theirquarantine time.
But man, what it did to theworld dude, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
We are a fairly small company so we kind of stay, you
know, close with all the work,hands and myself and whatnot,
and so we just kind of talk andwe discuss.
Like you know, we were kind ofall on the same page like, hey,
we, we got to work, we got tomake a living.
If we we're not born concrete,we're not making a living, we'll
die hungry.
He said it, covid I'm not.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I'm not starving bob yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So I can only think of one, maybe two guys that you
know kind of come in.
One guy was pretty new workingand he come in and he says, well
, I got COVID.
I'm like, well, man, you got togo to the house and it's just
right as it kicked in, and thenI guess he was upset.
I never seen or heard from himagain, so I didn't have to worry
about that one.
That's the concrete world,ain't it?
(31:53):
No, man, I can't tell you howmany guys we have hired.
They might work an hour, mightwork half a day, might work one
day.
I might work a few.
But I mean, just this pastsummer we stayed so busy.
It didn't get any rain, weatherkept going, everything was
boomed and we had I don't knowhow many new work cans we tried
out this summer.
That just wouldn't last.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, you got a good crew now you well, they've
always been there.
But yeah, then same old shoutout to steve, shout out to stone
cold, steve os yeah right, he's, uh, he's loud but he works.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
He likes to work, likes pour some concrete, but
the um?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
what's it take to make concrete?
Is that a weird question to ask?
I know you know the answer.
I would I would assume rock andcement sand fly ash yeah, so
that's one, two, three, fourmaterials, five, four to five
materials and then you can startadding calcium and everything
else.
But those are your four basicitems to go in concrete and if
(32:55):
one of them's lagging behindyou're gonna have an increase in
price because your demand's sohigh and it's.
It got absolutely crazy therefor a minute and it's still
crazy.
Um, I think people, just whenwe go to hand numbers in man,
they just like, well, whathappened to this price in 19?
(33:19):
And I'm like, well, covidhappened, buddy, and nothing's
come down well, and the concreteplant keeps raising prices.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
But I mean they obviously they have reasons to
also.
Yep, they have a shortage ofdrivers.
They work, oh man, they worklots of hours start early in the
morning, run late in theevening, like that takes a
special breed there.
Yeah, so they got to pay theirdrivers extra money just to get
(33:45):
them to come do with that.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Mm-hmm.
Overtime, overtime, overtime.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And so then their materials come up.
Well, it's just a trickle.
And then their materials fromtheir suppliers have all raised
and they probably pay theirdrivers more.
So it's just a trickle effect.
And the bad thing is we're theguys at the bottom of the line
showing the owner the price forit.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Dude, it's terrible.
Them drivers, man, some of thempourers, start at midnight.
Some of these commercialpourers guys, to get all the
trucks and get that amount ofyardage they'll start at
midnight, two o'clock, or thesegiant slabs it's unbelievable to
(34:32):
watch when they have a goodcrew that know what they're
doing.
Man, it's, it's crazy.
But the hours them guys work isis nuts.
But um the concrete nicheespecially, not just um the
concrete niche, but you're evenin a niche of a concrete, of
concrete world.
And just pouring boxes,specializing in a niche, do you
(34:55):
do?
You?
Are you ever afraid that you'renot gonna have enough work?
Something like that?
I know, I know that may crossyour mind, but I I can't really
say that because you have theopportunity of able to pour curb
, you can do it all, but youjust choose.
And why?
Okay, I guess my question iswhy do you choose to stay in
(35:15):
just that niche?
And it's gonna be probably a?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
simple answer well, if I can perfect something and
it's something that not my dadalways told me if you'll do, if
you'll figure out something thatnobody else wants to do and you
get good at it, you'll alwaysstay busy, yes, sir.
And so here I am still pouringconcrete.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
He's a wise man, dude .
And not only that.
You know, with NorthwestArkansas being cast in place,
I'm telling you guys, it maysound easy to y'all Animals,
ain't easy.
There is nothing about it easy.
There is a process to them thatif you don't know what you're
doing and then talk about theweather, dude, the weather
(35:59):
through summertime, bobby willcall me and be like hey, I got a
motor, like 6 am, dude, youbetter have my stuff there.
And'm like yeah, bob, yeah,okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure
.
Um, but the weather swings withyou guys.
Really drives when you can pouror not absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
There's times where it's, you know, slow.
If it's snowing outside,obviously you're not pouring no
concrete, but, uh, if, when Iwould say there's um, you, the
summertime, when the weather'sgood, the whole time, I mean you
probably make over a third ofyour money for the whole year
(36:39):
right there, because rain days,cold days, I mean we're pretty
fortunate we get to work allyear round, but you know it's.
You know 40 consecutive days,but you know it's.
You know 40 consecutive daysyou can get a whole lot more
done than when you got 40 daysand you've had to miss 12 of
them because of weather.
That's right.
It just puts you behind everytime you come back another day.
(36:59):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And I got to tell you guys, I watch this man and his
small crew pour concrete everysingle day and I'm telling you
he's best he can't pour everysingle day.
And I'm telling you he's bestcan't pour every single day.
Um, but you know he's pouring.
You're pouring in the morningnormally.
I don't bug him till 10, 11o'clock because he's probably
pouring getting something off.
(37:21):
You're there putting your handson dang near every pour.
Yeah, and then I guess theafternoons is more for forming
and getting ready for the hour,stramping and forming and
getting ready for the fall.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, just tramping and forming.
And sometimes we get thereearly in the morning.
You've got to strip somethingso you can form something up
real quick.
It's not a job for everybody.
You have to like it.
If you like it, then I mean youdon't really get lunch At least
ourselves, we don't really evertake lunch because you have to
(37:52):
be ready when calling on us what.
And then nowadays that in cityinspections everything has to be
inspected, dude, every day Ineed an inspection somewhere.
Yeah, so if I mean you gotta,and then you gotta take whatever
they have available sometimes.
So you just have to make sureyou're ready.
So that means you got to startearlier or start stay later, the
(38:12):
so you just have to make sureyou're ready.
So that means you've got tostart earlier or stay the day
before.
You've just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Bobby beats me out of a VOCA every single day.
I can assure you that I feelfortunate.
We've got a tiny little shoutout to the one-stop tiny little
gas station.
I'll meet him there every oncein a while and I'll be getting
through earlier the 530, the 6o'clock window and I might catch
him, but most of the time he'swaiting around on me.
(38:38):
There ain't no doubt about it,or me and my guys, but we've
gotten a lot better and, man,we've learned some systems,
though it's taken some time, butthe guys we got that you work
with now, man, there's a totallydifferent caliber than when you
first started.
Oh yeah, my guys, and they'velearned, you too, and they've
(38:58):
learned.
They all know what Bobby wants.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah well, poor Dakota, my first job was with
him.
He's not a morning person, I am.
I'd be calling him 4 or 5o'clock in the morning, nonstop,
until.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I could get an answer .
Oh my God, he would come intothose Monday meetings.
So mad dude He'd be like, andhe'd still be late.
He's still late to this day,dude.
I can't even tell you, I lovehim to death.
But my wife just shot him atext about him being late and
not clocking in.
And he's not late by much, butit's always five or ten minutes.
(39:39):
And I'm like, god bless, son,it drives me crazy.
Some people are like that, butI got to give him the benefit of
the doubt.
He does drive an hour and 20minutes, something like that.
That'd be tough.
Yeah, he comes out.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
He does drive an hour and 20 minutes, something like
that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, he comes from up there in Missouri and thank
god he does.
He's learned a lot.
I'm really proud of him, man,where he's come from, and you've
gotten to watch him.
I mean, dollar Tree was, yeah,I got boy through the mud.
Yeah, he was getting his feetwet for sure, and but
specializing in a niche, guys, II'll just kind of talk about it
(40:16):
for just a second, becausebobby hit the nail on the head
man, if you can do somethingthat I'm not, a whole lot of
people want to do, and then youfind out you're good at it.
You may not love it, you maynot like it, but if you're damn
good at it, keep.
You may not love it, you maynot like it, but if you're damn
good at it, keep doing itbecause you will always be busy
and as long as you produce agood product, you're not going
(40:37):
to have to spend a whole lot ofmoney in marketing.
You're not going to have tospend a whole lot of money in
sales, because the work's goingto flow right back to you.
Don't get me wrong, there'ssome other guys around here that
form animals et cetera.
But once you build a productand a reputation of, hey, it's
pretty much going to pass firsttime every time, and if it
doesn't, we're right there andwe're going to get it fixed up
(40:59):
and we're going to get it takencare of.
We all make mistakes butthere's so much more money to be
made in a niche with marginthan anything else Excavation I
would talk you guys out ofexcavation if you guys knew how
to pour a manhole in your partof the country.
I'm telling you, or you knowdrone technology or there's so
(41:21):
many applications.
I know that's.
I was just trying to show theopposite ends of the spectrum is
like we have from concretemanholes.
I'm trying to think of anotherlike bona fide niche.
Underground fire suppression iskind of a niche around here.
It's where we kind of got ourstart.
But at the same time, not everyjob is for you in those niches
(41:43):
and that's the hard part tounderstand that.
I think Mr Brewer's got figuredout that he has no problem
saying no and going meh, thatone's not going to be for me
there, tim, and we're going tomove on.
But dude, I wish, I truly am alittle jealous.
I mean, I wish I had it figuredout with one to two crews me
(42:05):
where I could keep hands onenough and make the profit is
kudos, dude, kudos for real.
I appreciate it.
We talked about this a littlebit already with the old rolling
through employees.
But it's hard to evenmentorship or train anybody
(42:26):
nowadays because they don'tnecessarily want to learn to
begin with.
But by the time you showsomebody a little bit of
mentorship, they take that asweakness and then they turn
around and take advantage of you.
I know, you know that, mrBusiness Owner.
I mean, you've watched it withsome folks of me and you've had
(42:47):
to call me and go hey, so-and-so, not ratting on nobody, but
definitely letting me know asowner-to-owner, hey, you may
want to keep a closer eye onthis because this don't look
right towards you, you know.
And man, I've appreciated thatso much.
But the mentorship and trainingpeople over the years, dude,
does it not get old?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yes, and concrete is a hands-on bill.
You can go home and watch aYouTube video, but it's not
going to show you how to reallyfinish concrete.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Don't be hating on YouTube, damn it.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
But I mean it is.
It's a hands-on Yep, and that'sprobably why it's hard to find
concrete hands.
It's used to everybody.
You know back in thereeverybody's backhoe or track or
whatever open cab, it was hot,it was cold, whatever.
You just dealt with it.
Well, now everybody's got gps,everybody's got eating air.
(43:45):
So a lot of you guys you'relike why the heck would I want
to go do concrete?
Yeah, I want to be warm.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, concrete dude I have such mad respect for them
boys.
I still to this day can'tfinish a piece of concrete and
save my life.
Don't get me wrong.
I could pour a little slab hereor there.
You know what I mean, a littleslab of sidewalk, but that's
about it.
But no, the respect given tothe foundational piece that's
(44:17):
looked over so many times.
And with concrete dude, that 50to 1 ratio, I thought I tell my
guys all the time it's likenobody cares about the 50 good
slabs you pour, but that onelittle piece of the bad slab,
everybody gonna talk about thatone bad spot.
Eh, yeah, and it's just youhave to.
(44:37):
It's about mistakes you makeand how you handle them and as
long as they're fair about itand anything can be worked out,
you know what I mean.
But ah, the training and thementorship.
I have no problem trainingpeople that want to be trained,
but the mentorship side of it,man, I've mentored some people
really, really close to me.
(44:58):
But man, I've been stepped onand it's hard as an owner not to
be just a little vulnerablehere with you guys, but it's
extremely hard.
You get hardened would be theword to open up to the next guy
coming in because you've hadso-and-so and so-and-so and
so-and-so step on you, like youdidn't do nothing for them.
(45:20):
And I'm not just talkingmonetarily here, I'm talking
about time and just everything.
But I know you've dealt withthat along the way.
And how do you deal with thatover and over again so that way,
when the right guy does comealong, you don't miss him?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I, I don't know, uh.
I mean, I just feel honestly,uh, you go through people,
people come in, you might needjust some extra hands for a
couple jobs.
Yeah, so you sacrifice on whatyou need, who you need, um, but
I mean, god's always placed somepeople in and with me, that
(46:00):
every time dude helped me getthrough every time, dude, I
don't know where I'd be withoutthe big man.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
There ain't no doubt about it.
Well, um, one last question foryou, mr Brewer.
What's a takeaway?
I ask everybody here, as aguest on the
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcomshow, what's a takeaway for the
blue collar worker who is sickand tired of being stuck in the
mud and that can be emotionally,mentally, as you.
(46:31):
You know it's hard mentallybeing a business owner in the
trades world, let, just to beginwith.
But then you'd stack on beingdad and then you stack on being
husband and everything else.
But what about that guy who'sjust sick and tired of being
stuck in the mud?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
first you gotta I mean you gotta figure out what
you want to do, who you want tobe, and you've got to accept
that I I know I'm not a suit andtie type of guy I never will be
, so I mean this it fits me, butthere's definitely times.
I mean, if I'm sick, I stillgot to be there.
If not, you know if, if theweather's bad, you still got to
(47:09):
be there.
Yeah, you got to make sure thatyou're that your work hands are
getting enough work done.
Where you're making money, yeah, but then you also got to make
sure they're staying busy.
You know they're getting hours,that they can make a living.
Um, it's just I don't reallyknow how to answer that because
it's just you already have.
Really, you just gotta, youjust gotta accept it.
(47:30):
He's gonna it.
I tell my kids all the time youknow it's only as hard as you
let it be If you put it in yourhead.
You know my youngest son.
He's a racer and a wrestler andI tell him all the time he's a
good one too.
You know a lot of that's inyour head.
If somebody's good, then youwant to beat them, you want to
(47:57):
wrestle them, you want to beatthem, race them, whatever,
because you want to be the best.
That's right.
So, yeah, you know, I tell mywork hands all the time also,
like it, it's not that hot air,it's not that cold.
Like you, you, it's in yourhead.
You got it and they think I'mcrazy.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
But you're right, though.
It's all about our thoughtprocess, man and, and it's all
about perception, about how weperceive a situation is going to
go, and by the time most of thetime we get into the situation,
we're like dude, it's not eventhat bad.
What was I even stressing about?
You know, what I mean.
Train that mindset up a littlebit, because that mindset is
(48:36):
full of power and if you setyour mind to, absolutely
anything is possible.
Of course big man above is ahelpful tool there.
But setting that mind, havingsome goals, like you said,
knowing where you want to go,and guess what?
If you're listening to this,you're 18, 20 years old.
Go through a few trades, figureout again.
You may not love the trade, butit may love you and you may be
(48:59):
good at it.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Well, if you don't like it, if you just hate it,
there's always another trade.
You go to college for fouryears and, getting that debt
over something that you don'tuse, you're still stuck with the
debt A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I know of just about any construction site in
Northwest Arkansas.
If you're pouring concrete forsix months and they go to start
standing steel up, I promise youyou walk across that job site
and go hey, mr Steel, man, Iwant to start working with you
guys.
He'll sign you right on up.
I mean it's crazy, but, man, Ireally appreciate you coming in
(49:36):
and hanging out with me today.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Dude, it's been I appreciate you having me, I hope
.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
I hope a few concrete guys.
I totally understand it's outof your wheelhouse and it was
definitely um.
Me and bobby talk a lot onphone, just not a whole lot in
front of a microphone and acamera, for sure.
But, guys, if you've loved thisepisode between me and Bobby,
go check out the rest of ourepisodes at
(50:01):
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
I hope this was a deep diveinto a concrete man's world and
his thought process and, man,it's been really enlightening.
I've been waiting to get you onthe show, man.
And another thing is just toclose it out it's just so cool
(50:22):
to sit here with somebody trulylove you guys and the product
that you display, but you andyour family, and to have the
relationship that we havebusiness-wise and outside.
You know we care about eachother's kids and where they're
going and what's going on, andso, man, I just appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Uh you know relationship as well, I do too,
and it goes both ways, man Istill haven't made it to luke's
race.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
It's so bad.
But furthermore, guysappreciate you hanging out with
us.
Until next time, you guys besafe and be kind.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like.
Share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
(51:12):
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
, where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Thank you, guys, so much forchecking back with us here.
In another episode of the BlueCollar Business Podcast we are,
I'm going to say, roughly man.
We've got eight or nineepisodes in the tank and I'm
hoping you guys are findingvalue in each and every one of
(00:50):
these episodes, bringing yousome type of blue collar
business strategy.
Today we are talking in theworld of concrete and being a
concrete subcontractor and Ireally hope you concrete guys
find some interesting info.
I had to bribe my concrete subbasically to get in here and I
(01:13):
really appreciate you comingbuddy, but I got to tell you
here in Northwest Arkansas ourspec is quite a bit different
than most of, I guess, the lower48.
A lot of part of the country,and let us know in the comments
below on what part of thecountry is cast in place
concrete, because right here innorthwest Arkansas manholes are
(01:36):
cast in place, storm boxes arecast in place, everything
concrete structure-wise.
Essentially there's someprecast stuff that some of the
cities here will allow us to use, but normally it's hey Bob, I
don't know what this box youhave to come do this box, I
don't know what I'm doing, andBobby comes out there and picks
(01:58):
apart the engineered drawing andgets us on the go.
But a couple of topics I wantto cover today.
We're going to be talking aboutthe stigma with concrete work
and concrete workers in general.
There's some of the hardestworking guys out there, as we
all know, have to deal withcrazy time slots and concretes
and big pours and how theweather affects it and it's just
(02:21):
crazy, a crazy life to live ingeneral.
And it's just crazy a crazylife to live in general.
We're going to be talking aboutfactors that affect price in
general cast and plays versusprecast.
Let's talk about the costincreases that we've dealt with
in concrete over the last seven,eight years.
We're going to be talking aboutspecializing in a niche business
(02:41):
like Bobby.
But, as they say, there'sriches in the niches and Bobby
is a premium niche and he'sextremely good at what he does
and we wouldn't be hardlyanywhere without him laying
sewer, doing any storm drain, etcetera.
Everything's cast in placeevery type of junction area,
(03:01):
inlet, curb, inlet.
So if you guys haven't seenwhat I'm talking about, you can
go check it out from thepresenting sponsor today psycon,
excavation and utilities.
Um, we have a youtube channelwith roughly about 22 000 23 000
subscribers on there.
Go jump over there.
There's plenty of what bobbydoes, plenty of his structures
(03:22):
that have been poured on there.
But furthermore, before we getofficially introduced, make sure
you guys head over toBlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom, if
you like.
Hearing about the blue collarwork in space, I'm trying to
integrate the white collar intohelp business owners like me and
Bobby try and get a little bitbetter at what we do, Because
(03:43):
there's not a whole lot of folksout there trying to help, you
know, help us succeed in thebusiness part.
We're good at our trade, butthey're not necessarily anybody
out there trying to help us withbusiness.
And that's what this podcast isto shed light on some of my
failures and inadequacies, and Ifigured you'd get a jiggle out
(04:04):
of that, but you know what I'mtrying to learn and I have
learned every single podcast.
I've sat down with every singleone of my guests.
I'm learning and I hope youguys are out there learning as
well.
So, furthermore, mr bobby,freaking booer with booer
construction, the man, the myth,the legend, the concrete name
(04:25):
around here for a long, longtime Thank you, man.
Yes, sir, let's talk about kindof how we met each other.
I can tell you from my side itwas a God-given deal because I
was working with a concretesubcontractor who had just
started out, was trying to poursome manholes.
(04:48):
You came in behind.
You remember that job.
We'll not name that one but Ihad no idea about the concrete
structure world, nor was Itrying to get into it, but I was
trying to trust the wrongpeople.
I trying to get into it, but Iwas trying to trust the wrong
people.
I can't say they werenecessarily the wrong people,
but maybe not as much practiceof the art as somebody like
(05:10):
yourself, but I was walked intothis.
We had this ADS drainagestructure.
If you remember I think DollarTree was kind of the first go
around and we had 700, we had384 linear feet of 3x5x6 box
culvert double stacked rightnext to each other and we had
(05:33):
these ginormous DOT rated boxeson both ends.
That job was freaking crazy andI was scared to death because I
had some manholes go really badwith that said contractor,
subcontractor Concrete Wise, andI was scared to death.
I had this really $1 job comingthrough and I knew I needed to
(05:56):
be teamed up with the right guy.
And you called me like out ofthe blue, from we're not going
to name any names but from someother subcontractor
relationships weren't going sowell and that opened up an
avenue for me and I, by God,jumped all over it and I've
tried to be better than them.
(06:16):
Guys, of course.
But man, these subcontractorrelationships, guys, I can't
preach to you guys enough.
I talk about relationships.
It's not everything, but, man,it sure is a whole hell of a lot
to do with business, and Bobbycan't do work without the pipe
guys and the pipe guys can't dowork without Bobby, and so it's
(06:39):
this relationship that you haveto play.
But there's also some lines ofrespect that we had to learn as,
being a subcontractor like, hey, this is the third time I'm
calling you for an elevationstake.
For the love of God, will youtell your boys to give me an
elevation stake and a CMA ring,and it was things like that.
(07:01):
Man, it's been such a funchallenge over the last two
years of navigating this.
It hasn't been a challenge,it's been a freaking blessing
the whole time, challenging frommy standpoint because I want to
be the contractor that can payyou in 10, 15 days, but at the
same time I'm going throughthese growing pains and dealing
(07:24):
with what I'm dealing with.
But we've navigated ourrelationship that I don't think
many can say they have.
Would you agree?
Yeah, absolutely, and I thinkthat takes a big give and take
back and forth.
I've got to give a little,bobby's got to give a little
forth.
I've got to give a little,bobby's got to give a little.
(07:46):
And, man, it's saved my butt.
Dollar tree is what I'm tryingto get at.
I would be hosed.
I wouldn't have got that jobdone.
We took on an undergrounddetention system and looked like
a giant septic tank but it hadabout eight concrete.
Well, it probably wasn't thatmany, but there was several
concrete structures as thingsdrained in and interdrained and
etc.
(08:06):
Etc.
And you really helped us, andespecially those do2 boxes.
But, man, concrete work, dude,tell us, tell us a little bit
how you guys started uh, my, mydad always did concrete work,
the man.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And uh, when I was a kid, that's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to do what dad did.
I didn't like school, I knew so, no college, no, I knew it.
I remember my dad saying whenme and my brother graduated are
you guys going to school or areyou gonna work?
(08:41):
And we said no, we hate school,we're not going, said I think
we.
We got out of school on likemaybe a friday and he said okay,
well, there's work truckwaiting outside for you guys for
monday.
And so we tried telling him no,we're gonna take a week or two
off before.
And and that's when he told usno, you're in the real world now
.
You work for a living.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah did he make you pay rent at home while you were
working?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
well, well, we moved out maybe a week or two before
school was out, but it was justin one of his houses, right, we
had to rent from him.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You bet, I know that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, so he gave us a break, but he also wanted to
keep us close, to make sure wewere at work every day.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And you were doing.
Back then you guys were working, you were doing a bunch of curb
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Oh, we support a ton of curb Bunch, A ton of curb
with curb machine.
So the whole time my dad wasrunning everything he loved curb
and getter.
We wanted to run that curbmachine nonstop.
Since I've kind of transitionedto things.
It's more storm boxes andmanholes, you know.
And now when we were working,when my dad was running saying
(09:52):
we still did a lot of stormboxes but we didn't really do
anything with sewer right you'vekind of perfected the manhole
game, buddy.
There's no.
Yeah, I was.
I remember telling him like I'mgonna go do some manholes and
his advice to me was you betterget it right the first time and
you know what.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
That's exactly why I use you time and time again,
brother, because I don't knowabout you guys.
You pipe utility guys,listening.
But if you've had a leakymanhole or a bad manhole,
listening.
But if you've had a leakymanhole or a bad manhole, it's
usually not in the most easyaccess location where you can
just dig it right back up andfix it.
(10:32):
It's usually the booger thatwas poured 20 months before any
concrete or asphalt hit the job.
And now some, for some reason,we're just getting around to
testing and then there's anissue.
So I have played the leakymanhole game and I, I guess I
guess a lot of places in thecountry.
Bobby, we sit here and talkabout it, but the leaky manhole
(10:54):
game and cast in place is is abad game to play.
You do not want to do it twice,you, you don't.
Nobody makes money doing thingstwice, but I guess would it not
be weird?
And in the precast world, Imean, how would their tests go?
I mean just, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I mean they don't really allow, especially in
sewer.
They never allow it around here, but there are places that they
do.
So how do they pressure?
I mean they, well, they'regoing to have to just there's
probably a little more lenienceon it going to have to just
there's probably a little morelenience on it because you are
plugging around the pipes, youare doing you still got to get
inside and pour floor to matchyour flows.
(11:31):
Do they?
Do they?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
still do brick floors in some parts of these
countries and mortar brickfloors in there, like up in the
northeast all of.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's crazy.
This is arkansas.
They're super strict on it.
Yes, they don't even want togive you a chance to fix one
hard.
Nope If it's leaking.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
They want it ripped out and and you know what, from
being on the municipality gameand being starting out in my
career, I get it they're havingto service it for the longevity
longevity of that manhole 20, 30years, right.
And so if it's already having alittle bit of problems from the
start, they know it's going tohave problems for forever and
(12:07):
they've got to deal with it.
But at the same time, give aman I mean we're not perfect,
we're going to make a fewmistakes here and there and at
least give us a chance to fixthat mistake before we just rip
it out.
These manholes ain't cheap andwhen you're digging them out and
then you're ripping them outand then redoing it twice,
(12:28):
nobody ever makes any moneydoing anything twice.
But it's just such an insaneprocess to not get wrong you
can't get it wrong.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, and as much concrete as they want in the
base of them.
Today it costs a fortune Twohooders, yeah, it's cost a
fortune two hooders.
Yeah, and cost a fortune.
Then you got if you got a redoand you got your machines for
and then you got sewer line, yougot to replace.
It's costly effect on everybodyand it's never uh.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
When you're in the sewer world, it's never uh you
know a couple grand situation.
It's always a five, 10, $50,000conversation.
Really quickly, you're I mean,if you're pouring an 18 foot
deep manhole and it was in twopiece or whatever you had to
pour six foot IOD man, I mean itcan get crazy, yeah.
And you've poured a bunch oflift stations too.
(13:18):
Yeah Right, fair share of liftstations, that's uh, that's one
game we've.
We've done nothing real crazy.
We've helped on a few liftstations.
Let's put it that way.
I can't say psycon has done alift station but, um, definitely
have the people in place to doone, now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Um, but yeah, you can pour eight, eight foot we can
pour four foot, five foot, sixfoot and eight foot round boxes,
oh my god.
And then we build square onesto unlimited size.
Yeah, whatever literally.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I don't know if that even computes to some of you
guys, but they'll.
There will be forms and it'll.
It'll look like a medusa ofwood ready to take form for
walls or floor et cetera, andthey will literally pour all the
walls in place per grade, perelevation, all of it.
(14:13):
And it's a craft, a masteredcraft that few have figured out.
You can do it.
You can do it okay, but doingit well, doing it the first time
and walking away from it andknowing you've made money is a
totally different thing, dude,and the manhole game, that's a
(14:35):
different conversation.
But stormboxes and you've got alittle bit more leniency there
there's not as much strict, youknow, it's just more or less
pouring some concrete and if youknow how to form it correctly
and not blow out and um, butwhere Bobby helps me in a storm,
you guys got to understand whenwe're saying cast in place,
we're pouring from the curb, um,curb inlets and area inlets,
(15:00):
like it's all got to meet, ofcourse, top grade, and if you
pour too high walls, your lid'sgoing to be too high, your box
top's going to be too high oryour throat may not be right.
You may have to, and we werejust talking about this last
week, how Bentonville requiresyou stop short of the curb and
(15:22):
curb has to be there before youcan pour the throat of a curb
inlet.
And me and bobby are on aproject right now and it's in
between some phasing, let's putit that way and there's a
section with a box that we'vepoured because we had to finish
out our public storm run but wecan't pour a top on it without
(15:44):
pouring a throat on it.
But there's no curb going inthat phase section.
So we're kind of, of course, anowner wants he wants it, you
know, the liability to be gone,he wants to put a top on it, etc
.
But at the same time it's it'sgoing to cost him twice as much
by the time he gets it actuallyput on there if we don't wait
(16:05):
until we put the curb.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, Anytime you put the top before the curb you
risk the liability of alignmentand grade being correct.
It's hard, man In northwestArkansas curb not straight,
hardly anywhere.
They love to put radiuses andthirds.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Islands and green spaces.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, dude, if the curve's there, then you just
match the curve and you justmove on, move on.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Well, seriously, my first topic of today so we were
kind of talking about it beforeis there's a stigma I've talked
about on this show so so manytimes about how you see a blue
collar guy five o'clock, ahundred degree, august day,
sweat.
(16:53):
He's ran out of sweat by thenand he's just dirty head to toe
every single day.
Um, but you run into at a gasstation, you're going to look at
him and go, oh, that guy's kindof dirty, but it doesn't.
You don't compute dirt to moneylike we do and that this but
it's.
We're looked down upon otherthan you know tradesmen, knowing
(17:15):
each other, you know I can lookat a concrete guy and go, oh,
there's a concrete guy.
And I can look at a framer andgo, that's probably a guy that
runs wood all day and you knowyou've got a pretty good
understanding.
But how do you overcome as abusiness owner and not just a
guy that goes out there and doesit, but as a business owner and
(17:35):
a concrete man, how do youovercome that stigma going home
dirty as crap every day?
What do you?
How do?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
you overcome it yeah I I mean, personally I that
stuff doesn't bother me as bad.
I mean, I I'm like thisthree-fourths of my life.
I'm usually dirty and I workevery day.
Yeah, whether it's take thekids, it's kids of sports or
whatever.
Afterwards, usually I'm in myboots and concrete clothes and
(18:08):
yeah, I'm usually covered in itand uh, it so to me.
In my eyes, that's, it's justwho I am.
I love it bub.
Uh, when I came here, I didn'trun home to switch clothes or
nothing.
I got them pouring concrete andas soon as we wrapped things up
and broomed it, it comes righthere.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You literally texted me.
You were like hey, bob, I'mpouring at one.
As long as concrete don't runlight, I'll be there and I'm
like this is awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's it.
Always waiting on concrete.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But there's definitely a look that you have,
I mean a thought process thatsomebody has about you.
Um, I mean I I'll go usually mywife's picking the kids up from
school, but if I do, you know,it's usually in the work truck,
in the form truck trailer behindme.
I'm filthy, uh, you know, I'mthe only one there that looks
like that.
Yep, but I mean, at the end ofthe day, there's a lot of trades
(19:06):
, whether it be concrete orlife's rule, mommy, whatever,
there's a million trades thatyou can go make money at and
make a living very quickly andyou're not in debt from school
or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
You can just go straight to work I talk about it
on the show and I wish morepeople understood and heard me
that man, four years of college.
We were just talking earlier,as I came into the studio, about
this workforce program here inSpringdale School District and I
was there yesterday and tryingto explain through these
(19:40):
seniors' minds of you can go tocollege, rack up debt for four
years, come out of college andmaybe have a job for the degree
that you chose, or you can be alikable, respectable human being
and go to any skilled tradearound here and go hey, I'd like
a job, please.
And I'll start from the bottom.
(20:01):
I don't know anything but I'dlove to learn and I promise you
you'll have a job before you canblink at any concrete company.
You know what I mean, buteverything is fast-paced in our
world, anyways.
But literally the collegeconversation when a man can go
out and him and a crew can cleara million dollars pretty quick
(20:24):
if he's a master at his trade.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, and that's within four orfive years.
Guys, now don't get me wrong, ittakes a lifetime to master a
trade.
I ain't no master pipe goddurrguy, nothing like that.
Now, I know a lot, don't get mewrong, but I still learn things
.
You know what I mean.
Now Bobby's been pouringconcrete.
(20:45):
He's a master of I'm tellingyou guys of the boxes and the
manholes, but it's so true to,the experience is priceless.
Education is expensive.
Topic is that you can.
You can go anywhere and as longas you are a respectable human
being and ask questions, you canpick anything up and as long as
(21:09):
you retain the information.
I think the biggest frustrationfor me and I think it would be
as you as well, bob is peoplenot retaining the information.
I don't like saying it sixtimes yeah, retaining the
information.
I don't like saying it sixtimes If I'm telling you hey,
every single day, we get out thetruck, get tape measure, we get
(21:30):
this tool, we get that tool andthat's what needs to be out.
Second day, a little reminderyeah, hey, forgot that tool.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Third day.
We better have tools out readyto go.
You know what I mean Quit toretain that information.
Well, I'm a micromanager,that's something that, uh, that
I need to work on, but I'm I'mthe first one there every day,
last one to leave, every 100percent.
Oh yeah, if I'm startingsomebody coming into this,
wanting to come into this field,or any field like this, if you
just show up every day, workhard, pay attention, I mean you,
because that's something thateverybody, that people are
(22:10):
lacking, dude, no one cares.
Everybody wants to pick thecell phone up 100 times
throughout the day.
Uh, so those, I mean justfinding somebody that was was
willing to work.
If you're starting at seveno'clock in the morning, then you
need to be on the job, toolsready, ready to go at seven.
Not, I am 15 minutes down theroad At 730.
(22:33):
Yeah, time is money foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And in the trades, as business owners like, we try
and enlighten them.
But the amount of money thatequates to our time is
ridiculous.
And if we're not moving andwhen we can be on this job right
here, because you know this isbillable, what you're working on
isn't billable, why you gotfive guys over here and it can
(22:57):
get out of hand really quick,you know as a business owner.
So I, what I'm trying to get atis that I feel for you.
In the micromanaging piece, ittook me a little bit of time to
figure out how to delegate.
And don't get me wrong, Ifigured out how to not delegate
and some of my systems fellright on their face.
But I'm currently in the middleof figuring out a few systems
(23:17):
for the size of company that weare.
But if you don't put those inplace it's hard to grow and
scale.
But are you thinking aboutanother crew anytime soon?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I don't know, it comes across.
If the right guy came across,right, that's right.
I mean, the right guy issomeone that's.
I made the comment to a guy theother day.
I don't know how thesecompanies are hiring somebody
and just telling them to go.
You know, go do that job and itbeing done correctly, because
I'm.
I get a lot of my work just offof reputation 100% Just doing
(23:55):
it like they, the othercontractor, they I might not be
the cheapest guy, but they knowthat I got to do it two or three
times You're dang right and,honestly, it's easy to sell to
GCs.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
from that standpoint, hey look, it does cost some
more money.
But guess what?
When it's poured, it's done.
We don't have to dick with itagain.
We don't have to worry about itnot failing or not passing a
test, a vacuum test, line,pressure test it's going to be
(24:27):
done and we can walk away fromit.
And that means a lot Time.
Money is a tool to buy time andit's just if everybody on the
project also views it that way.
You know what I mean.
So a lot of people go ahead.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, the owners always wanted the cheapest guy,
I mean the guy paying for it.
You know but a few badincidents.
And then they learn the cheapguy is not always the route to
go.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I can't even tell you guys, experience is freaking
priceless when it comes to that.
Because, oh, there is, there isdefinitely ways you can throw
together a manhole and you canrent the forms and and do it
yourself.
But I don't have any of my guysthat do concrete in general and
let alone I say that, okay,shout out to mr bill.
(25:07):
Bill's got an understanding ofconcrete.
He don't like foreign concretebut, um, he's kind of a jack of
all trades.
But, man, I want somebody.
Number one I probably need toshine some light on this dude.
I mean for, for being amicromanager though, you handle
it very freaking well.
(25:28):
You're always there, you canalways.
When I call the phone and hey,bob, I'm thinking about this, I
try to give you as much heads upas I can get.
And then I'm thinking aboutTuesday or Thursday.
What do you think?
Well, if you can get meinspection on Wednesday, I can
be there, and you're alwayswilling to think well, if you
can get me inspection onWednesday, I can be there, and
you're always willing to workwith me to try and figure out
(25:49):
how I can get my job done ontime.
And that's a big part of thatgive and take.
But, man, you, you never failto be there on time when you're
supposed to be.
I don't when I tell peopleBobby's doing it.
I don't have to sit there.
Bug Bobby, hey, show up.
Hey, I need you to's.
None of that.
You're there, you get it doneand you freaking walk away, and
(26:09):
I can't tell you how much thatmeans to any company out there,
but especially me.
So thank you for that, because,uh, I know how hard it is being
that guy and having three orfour and five and six people and
they're all relying on you andyou're trying to put everything
together for the next day andthen one guy, two guys, call in
and then you're like, well, dangit, I was just trying to get
(26:32):
ahead, and well, I appreciatethat.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
But I don't always make everybody happy by.
If they're wanting me theretuesday, you know I'm like, well
, you're not getting me tillThursday or Friday or something.
But people are different.
Some people will tell you whatyou want to hear to make you
happy.
For that moment, I'm just goingto be honest with you.
(26:55):
You have to.
If I'm not going to be there,I'll let you know ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yep, every time, every single time.
And that Dollar Tree job was a2021 job, 22, right at the end
of 21, it was cold as hell.
Um, anyways, we've been workingtogether two, two and a half
years and, uh, we should havefound you sooner, but let's talk
about.
We've been hitting around theold price and factor, but let's
(27:19):
talk about all you know, when Ifirst started dude eight, nine
years ago, mud was 85 a yardyeah, I can remember 40, 50
dollars a yard you know what Imean.
And here we are.
I'm paying north of 200 andsomething dollars, or just under
200, depending on where fromit's like it's crazy yeah, for
(27:42):
one yard of me it costs thematerialists outrage.
Just lumbers high, rebars highI just I don't understand how we
and I just got a concreteincrease last week yep, five
percent.
And I'm like, oh my god boys,like how do we even justify it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And they almost always hit you up January 1st
for another one.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And what are the factors you're seeing that's
driving the price?
You're maybe talking to somedevelopers here.
You may be talking to someinvestors here, and this is kind
of your chance to make surethey understand everything
involved in that price.
It's not just pouring a box.
You know what I mean?
(28:29):
Correct, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Well, we're pretty blessed in Northwest Arkansas
for a lot of construction, a lotof work, and that's a good
thing and a bad thing.
The bad thing you always have amillion companies that want to
start and want to come in tonorthwest arkansas.
Yep, and they come and they go.
But I mean, if you're trying tosell the job to somebody, you,
(28:55):
you, I'm not a talker, I, I meanyou know, I, I just shoot
people straight.
Yes, you do, sir.
Uh, when I'm I'm upset, peopleknow I'm upset.
When I'm not, they know it.
And there's jobs that I steeraway from.
I mean, you've seen that whensomebody starts trying to hound
(29:15):
you with too bad on the pricefor off the get-go, I'm just
like, nope, it's all been for me.
I go somewhere that I know Ican make money.
If I know I'm not making money,there's no reason to go try it.
I don't need to do it for free,I don't need the practice.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
No you do not and you can't lose money on a job you
didn't do.
Yeah, I read that about 18months ago and it's really stuck
in my head because I'm, as youknow, a yes man and I'm like, oh
, yes, sir, we can do that, wecan do this, we can do that.
Oh, and then some of thesituations I've got us in over
the years more Saigonspecifically oh, they're fun,
(29:53):
let me tell you.
But then you meet people likeBobby to bail you out and to
help you out along the way.
But, man, there was a littlebit of a sand.
What was it?
Fly ash or potash?
Fly ash for a while?
Yeah, hard to come by.
Was that in?
What is it?
21 or 22 or something like that?
Yeah, that was from the reveal.
Yeah, After COVID, I know COVIDchanged everything.
(30:16):
It literally changed everything, and I'm not blaming it just on
COVID here, guys, I'm justspeaking on the timeframe of
COVID, that 2021 thing.
Yeah, being a quote-unquoteessential worker, you didn't
stop, did you?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
No, we didn't miss a day.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I didn't miss a freaking day of work.
And I can't tell you the amountof people I paid to stay to sit
at home during that deal, so Ididn't end up.
I mean, the law was changingevery other day.
I didn't want to get sued byany of these and if they were
sick I just had guys that weresick four and five times.
Everybody that were sick fourand five times.
You know Everybody that wassick caught it, got a fever,
(30:53):
they stayed at home for theirquarantine time.
But man, what it did to theworld dude, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
We are a fairly small company so we kind of stay, you
know, close with all the work,hands and myself and whatnot,
and so we just kind of talk andwe discuss.
Like you know, we were kind ofall on the same page like, hey,
we, we got to work, we got tomake a living.
If we we're not born concrete,we're not making a living, we'll
die hungry.
He said it, covid I'm not.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I'm not starving bob yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So I can only think of one, maybe two guys that you
know kind of come in.
One guy was pretty new workingand he come in and he says, well
, I got COVID.
I'm like, well, man, you got togo to the house and it's just
right as it kicked in, and thenI guess he was upset.
I never seen or heard from himagain, so I didn't have to worry
about that one.
That's the concrete world,ain't it?
(31:53):
No, man, I can't tell you howmany guys we have hired.
They might work an hour, mightwork half a day, might work one
day.
I might work a few.
But I mean, just this pastsummer we stayed so busy.
It didn't get any rain, weatherkept going, everything was
boomed and we had I don't knowhow many new work cans we tried
out this summer.
That just wouldn't last.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, you got a good crew now you well, they've
always been there.
But yeah, then same old shoutout to steve, shout out to stone
cold, steve os yeah right, he's, uh, he's loud but he works.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
He likes to work, likes pour some concrete, but
the um?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
what's it take to make concrete?
Is that a weird question to ask?
I know you know the answer.
I would I would assume rock andcement sand fly ash yeah, so
that's one, two, three, fourmaterials, five, four to five
materials and then you can startadding calcium and everything
else.
But those are your four basicitems to go in concrete and if
(32:55):
one of them's lagging behindyou're gonna have an increase in
price because your demand's sohigh and it's.
It got absolutely crazy therefor a minute and it's still
crazy.
Um, I think people, just whenwe go to hand numbers in man,
they just like, well, whathappened to this price in 19?
(33:19):
And I'm like, well, covidhappened, buddy, and nothing's
come down well, and the concreteplant keeps raising prices.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
But I mean they obviously they have reasons to
also.
Yep, they have a shortage ofdrivers.
They work, oh man, they worklots of hours start early in the
morning, run late in theevening, like that takes a
special breed there.
Yeah, so they got to pay theirdrivers extra money just to get
(33:45):
them to come do with that.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Mm-hmm.
Overtime, overtime, overtime.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And so then their materials come up.
Well, it's just a trickle.
And then their materials fromtheir suppliers have all raised
and they probably pay theirdrivers more.
So it's just a trickle effect.
And the bad thing is we're theguys at the bottom of the line
showing the owner the price forit.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Dude, it's terrible.
Them drivers, man, some of thempourers, start at midnight.
Some of these commercialpourers guys, to get all the
trucks and get that amount ofyardage they'll start at
midnight, two o'clock, or thesegiant slabs it's unbelievable to
(34:32):
watch when they have a goodcrew that know what they're
doing.
Man, it's, it's crazy.
But the hours them guys work isis nuts.
But um the concrete nicheespecially, not just um the
concrete niche, but you're evenin a niche of a concrete, of
concrete world.
And just pouring boxes,specializing in a niche, do you
(34:55):
do?
You?
Are you ever afraid that you'renot gonna have enough work?
Something like that?
I know, I know that may crossyour mind, but I I can't really
say that because you have theopportunity of able to pour curb
, you can do it all, but youjust choose.
And why?
Okay, I guess my question iswhy do you choose to stay in
(35:15):
just that niche?
And it's gonna be probably a?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
simple answer well, if I can perfect something and
it's something that not my dadalways told me if you'll do, if
you'll figure out something thatnobody else wants to do and you
get good at it, you'll alwaysstay busy, yes, sir.
And so here I am still pouringconcrete.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
He's a wise man, dude .
And not only that.
You know, with NorthwestArkansas being cast in place,
I'm telling you guys, it maysound easy to y'all Animals,
ain't easy.
There is nothing about it easy.
There is a process to them thatif you don't know what you're
doing and then talk about theweather, dude, the weather
(35:59):
through summertime, bobby willcall me and be like hey, I got a
motor, like 6 am, dude, youbetter have my stuff there.
And'm like yeah, bob, yeah,okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure
.
Um, but the weather swings withyou guys.
Really drives when you can pouror not absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
There's times where it's, you know, slow.
If it's snowing outside,obviously you're not pouring no
concrete, but, uh, if, when Iwould say there's um, you, the
summertime, when the weather'sgood, the whole time, I mean you
probably make over a third ofyour money for the whole year
(36:39):
right there, because rain days,cold days, I mean we're pretty
fortunate we get to work allyear round, but you know it's.
You know 40 consecutive days,but you know it's.
You know 40 consecutive daysyou can get a whole lot more
done than when you got 40 daysand you've had to miss 12 of
them because of weather.
That's right.
It just puts you behind everytime you come back another day.
(36:59):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And I got to tell you guys, I watch this man and his
small crew pour concrete everysingle day and I'm telling you
he's best he can't pour everysingle day.
And I'm telling you he's bestcan't pour every single day.
Um, but you know he's pouring.
You're pouring in the morningnormally.
I don't bug him till 10, 11o'clock because he's probably
pouring getting something off.
(37:21):
You're there putting your handson dang near every pour.
Yeah, and then I guess theafternoons is more for forming
and getting ready for the hour,stramping and forming and
getting ready for the fall.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, just tramping and forming.
And sometimes we get thereearly in the morning.
You've got to strip somethingso you can form something up
real quick.
It's not a job for everybody.
You have to like it.
If you like it, then I mean youdon't really get lunch At least
ourselves, we don't really evertake lunch because you have to
(37:52):
be ready when calling on us what.
And then nowadays that in cityinspections everything has to be
inspected, dude, every day Ineed an inspection somewhere.
Yeah, so if I mean you gotta,and then you gotta take whatever
they have available sometimes.
So you just have to make sureyou're ready.
So that means you got to startearlier or start stay later, the
(38:12):
so you just have to make sureyou're ready.
So that means you've got tostart earlier or stay the day
before.
You've just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Bobby beats me out of a VOCA every single day.
I can assure you that I feelfortunate.
We've got a tiny little shoutout to the one-stop tiny little
gas station.
I'll meet him there every oncein a while and I'll be getting
through earlier the 530, the 6o'clock window and I might catch
him, but most of the time he'swaiting around on me.
(38:38):
There ain't no doubt about it,or me and my guys, but we've
gotten a lot better and, man,we've learned some systems,
though it's taken some time, butthe guys we got that you work
with now, man, there's a totallydifferent caliber than when you
first started.
Oh yeah, my guys, and they'velearned, you too, and they've
(38:58):
learned.
They all know what Bobby wants.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah well, poor Dakota, my first job was with
him.
He's not a morning person, I am.
I'd be calling him 4 or 5o'clock in the morning, nonstop,
until.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I could get an answer .
Oh my God, he would come intothose Monday meetings.
So mad dude He'd be like, andhe'd still be late.
He's still late to this day,dude.
I can't even tell you, I lovehim to death.
But my wife just shot him atext about him being late and
not clocking in.
And he's not late by much, butit's always five or ten minutes.
(39:39):
And I'm like, god bless, son,it drives me crazy.
Some people are like that, butI got to give him the benefit of
the doubt.
He does drive an hour and 20minutes, something like that.
That'd be tough.
Yeah, he comes out.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
He does drive an hour and 20 minutes, something like
that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, he comes from up there in Missouri and thank
god he does.
He's learned a lot.
I'm really proud of him, man,where he's come from, and you've
gotten to watch him.
I mean, dollar Tree was, yeah,I got boy through the mud.
Yeah, he was getting his feetwet for sure, and but
specializing in a niche, guys, II'll just kind of talk about it
(40:16):
for just a second, becausebobby hit the nail on the head
man, if you can do somethingthat I'm not, a whole lot of
people want to do, and then youfind out you're good at it.
You may not love it, you maynot like it, but if you're damn
good at it, keep.
You may not love it, you maynot like it, but if you're damn
good at it, keep doing itbecause you will always be busy
and as long as you produce agood product, you're not going
(40:37):
to have to spend a whole lot ofmoney in marketing.
You're not going to have tospend a whole lot of money in
sales, because the work's goingto flow right back to you.
Don't get me wrong, there'ssome other guys around here that
form animals et cetera.
But once you build a productand a reputation of, hey, it's
pretty much going to pass firsttime every time, and if it
doesn't, we're right there andwe're going to get it fixed up
(40:59):
and we're going to get it takencare of.
We all make mistakes butthere's so much more money to be
made in a niche with marginthan anything else Excavation I
would talk you guys out ofexcavation if you guys knew how
to pour a manhole in your partof the country.
I'm telling you, or you knowdrone technology or there's so
(41:21):
many applications.
I know that's.
I was just trying to show theopposite ends of the spectrum is
like we have from concretemanholes.
I'm trying to think of anotherlike bona fide niche.
Underground fire suppression iskind of a niche around here.
It's where we kind of got ourstart.
But at the same time, not everyjob is for you in those niches
(41:43):
and that's the hard part tounderstand that.
I think Mr Brewer's got figuredout that he has no problem
saying no and going meh, thatone's not going to be for me
there, tim, and we're going tomove on.
But dude, I wish, I truly am alittle jealous.
I mean, I wish I had it figuredout with one to two crews me
(42:05):
where I could keep hands onenough and make the profit is
kudos, dude, kudos for real.
I appreciate it.
We talked about this a littlebit already with the old rolling
through employees.
But it's hard to evenmentorship or train anybody
(42:26):
nowadays because they don'tnecessarily want to learn to
begin with.
But by the time you showsomebody a little bit of
mentorship, they take that asweakness and then they turn
around and take advantage of you.
I know, you know that, mrBusiness Owner.
I mean, you've watched it withsome folks of me and you've had
(42:47):
to call me and go hey, so-and-so, not ratting on nobody, but
definitely letting me know asowner-to-owner, hey, you may
want to keep a closer eye onthis because this don't look
right towards you, you know.
And man, I've appreciated thatso much.
But the mentorship and trainingpeople over the years, dude,
does it not get old?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yes, and concrete is a hands-on bill.
You can go home and watch aYouTube video, but it's not
going to show you how to reallyfinish concrete.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Don't be hating on YouTube, damn it.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
But I mean it is.
It's a hands-on Yep, and that'sprobably why it's hard to find
concrete hands.
It's used to everybody.
You know back in thereeverybody's backhoe or track or
whatever open cab, it was hot,it was cold, whatever.
You just dealt with it.
Well, now everybody's got gps,everybody's got eating air.
(43:45):
So a lot of you guys you'relike why the heck would I want
to go do concrete?
Yeah, I want to be warm.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, concrete dude I have such mad respect for them
boys.
I still to this day can'tfinish a piece of concrete and
save my life.
Don't get me wrong.
I could pour a little slab hereor there.
You know what I mean, a littleslab of sidewalk, but that's
about it.
But no, the respect given tothe foundational piece that's
(44:17):
looked over so many times.
And with concrete dude, that 50to 1 ratio, I thought I tell my
guys all the time it's likenobody cares about the 50 good
slabs you pour, but that onelittle piece of the bad slab,
everybody gonna talk about thatone bad spot.
Eh, yeah, and it's just youhave to.
(44:37):
It's about mistakes you makeand how you handle them and as
long as they're fair about itand anything can be worked out,
you know what I mean.
But ah, the training and thementorship.
I have no problem trainingpeople that want to be trained,
but the mentorship side of it,man, I've mentored some people
really, really close to me.
(44:58):
But man, I've been stepped onand it's hard as an owner not to
be just a little vulnerablehere with you guys, but it's
extremely hard.
You get hardened would be theword to open up to the next guy
coming in because you've hadso-and-so and so-and-so and
so-and-so step on you, like youdidn't do nothing for them.
(45:20):
And I'm not just talkingmonetarily here, I'm talking
about time and just everything.
But I know you've dealt withthat along the way.
And how do you deal with thatover and over again so that way,
when the right guy does comealong, you don't miss him?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I, I don't know, uh.
I mean, I just feel honestly,uh, you go through people,
people come in, you might needjust some extra hands for a
couple jobs.
Yeah, so you sacrifice on whatyou need, who you need, um, but
I mean, god's always placed somepeople in and with me, that
(46:00):
every time dude helped me getthrough every time, dude, I
don't know where I'd be withoutthe big man.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
There ain't no doubt about it.
Well, um, one last question foryou, mr Brewer.
What's a takeaway?
I ask everybody here, as aguest on the
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcomshow, what's a takeaway for the
blue collar worker who is sickand tired of being stuck in the
mud and that can be emotionally,mentally, as you.
(46:31):
You know it's hard mentallybeing a business owner in the
trades world, let, just to beginwith.
But then you'd stack on beingdad and then you stack on being
husband and everything else.
But what about that guy who'sjust sick and tired of being
stuck in the mud?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
first you gotta I mean you gotta figure out what
you want to do, who you want tobe, and you've got to accept
that I I know I'm not a suit andtie type of guy I never will be
, so I mean this it fits me, butthere's definitely times.
I mean, if I'm sick, I stillgot to be there.
If not, you know if, if theweather's bad, you still got to
(47:09):
be there.
Yeah, you got to make sure thatyou're that your work hands are
getting enough work done.
Where you're making money, yeah, but then you also got to make
sure they're staying busy.
You know they're getting hours,that they can make a living.
Um, it's just I don't reallyknow how to answer that because
it's just you already have.
Really, you just gotta, youjust gotta accept it.
(47:30):
He's gonna it.
I tell my kids all the time youknow it's only as hard as you
let it be If you put it in yourhead.
You know my youngest son.
He's a racer and a wrestler andI tell him all the time he's a
good one too.
You know a lot of that's inyour head.
If somebody's good, then youwant to beat them, you want to
(47:57):
wrestle them, you want to beatthem, race them, whatever,
because you want to be the best.
That's right.
So, yeah, you know, I tell mywork hands all the time also,
like it, it's not that hot air,it's not that cold.
Like you, you, it's in yourhead.
You got it and they think I'mcrazy.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
But you're right, though.
It's all about our thoughtprocess, man and, and it's all
about perception, about how weperceive a situation is going to
go, and by the time most of thetime we get into the situation,
we're like dude, it's not eventhat bad.
What was I even stressing about?
You know, what I mean.
Train that mindset up a littlebit, because that mindset is
(48:36):
full of power and if you setyour mind to, absolutely
anything is possible.
Of course big man above is ahelpful tool there.
But setting that mind, havingsome goals, like you said,
knowing where you want to go,and guess what?
If you're listening to this,you're 18, 20 years old.
Go through a few trades, figureout again.
You may not love the trade, butit may love you and you may be
(48:59):
good at it.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Well, if you don't like it, if you just hate it,
there's always another trade.
You go to college for fouryears and, getting that debt
over something that you don'tuse, you're still stuck with the
debt A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I know of just about any construction site in
Northwest Arkansas.
If you're pouring concrete forsix months and they go to start
standing steel up, I promise youyou walk across that job site
and go hey, mr Steel, man, Iwant to start working with you
guys.
He'll sign you right on up.
I mean it's crazy, but, man, Ireally appreciate you coming in
(49:36):
and hanging out with me today.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Dude, it's been I appreciate you having me, I hope
.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
I hope a few concrete guys.
I totally understand it's outof your wheelhouse and it was
definitely um.
Me and bobby talk a lot onphone, just not a whole lot in
front of a microphone and acamera, for sure.
But, guys, if you've loved thisepisode between me and Bobby,
go check out the rest of ourepisodes at
(50:01):
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
I hope this was a deep diveinto a concrete man's world and
his thought process and, man,it's been really enlightening.
I've been waiting to get you onthe show, man.
And another thing is just toclose it out it's just so cool
(50:22):
to sit here with somebody trulylove you guys and the product
that you display, but you andyour family, and to have the
relationship that we havebusiness-wise and outside.
You know we care about eachother's kids and where they're
going and what's going on, andso, man, I just appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Uh you know relationship as well, I do too,
and it goes both ways, man Istill haven't made it to luke's
race.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
It's so bad.
But furthermore, guysappreciate you hanging out with
us.
Until next time, you guys besafe and be kind.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like.
Share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
(51:12):
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
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