April 30, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when an architecture graduate decides he'd rather build buildings than design them? For Trent Hanna, President of SSI Northwest Arkansas, this realization launched a journey through construction superintendency and project management before culminating in the purchase of a 50-year-old general contracting company.
Trent's story is a masterclass in business transformation. Walking into a company still using carbon paper for purchase orders and operating without company credit cards, he faced the delicate challenge of modernizing operations while preserving the expertise of long-standing employees—including a superintendent with over 30 years of experience. His approach balanced respect for legacy with practical innovations that made everyone's jobs easier.
The conversation dives deep into the realities of commercial construction that rarely get discussed publicly. Trent openly addresses the extended payment terms plaguing the industry (sometimes beyond 120 days), the challenge of maintaining cash flow while satisfying both clients and subcontractors, and the increasing competition from out-of-town contractors flooding into Northwest Arkansas. His perspective on prioritizing reputation over size—aiming to be the contractor clients will "wait for" rather than the biggest in town—offers a refreshing counterpoint to growth-at-all-costs business philosophies.
For anyone feeling stuck in their career, Trent's advice is refreshingly direct: just do it. Take time to think strategically, develop your ideas, and execute. While making the initial leap is challenging, he notes the surprising number of people who emerge to support your journey once you commit to it. His experience demonstrates how combining architectural knowledge with hands-on construction expertise creates a unique perspective that can transform an entire business.
Whether you're managing a construction company, working your way through the ranks, or contemplating an entrepreneurial leap, Trent's insights on balancing tradition with innovation provide valuable guidance for navigating today's complex construction landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Welcome back, guys, to anotherepisode of the blue collar
business podcast brought to youand sponsored by this beautiful
studio we are in today here atpodcastvideoscom in the Rogers,
arkansas location.
You guys know I have beenjoined forces with them for
(00:50):
almost a solid year now.
Love this team, love theirstudio.
They always are super helpfulabout getting guests connected
If there's any type of schedulechanges.
Navigating to folks that run abusiness and trying to get them
in the same room at the sametime can be extremely tough
sometimes Just doing a project,let alone trying to do a podcast
(01:14):
or something out of theordinary.
So shout out to those guys hereat podcastvideoscom.
Today I've got a special guestand I think we have done another
General Contractor episode hereat BlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom
.
You can go check that out.
But that was more of a resistepping into light commercial,
(01:38):
into the commercial game.
Today I'm bringing you a littlebit of a different show.
We've been trying to line thisup for like a year, as I was
just talking about it.
This is a true blue historicalcommercial GC and today I
(02:02):
brought to you guys Trent Hanna,the president of SSI Northwest
Arkansas.
He is a younger generation guylike myself, trying to figure
out this whole project world andthe well, that's how we've
always done it and trying tonavigate.
Well, that's probably not themost efficient and profitable.
So we're going to get to hear alittle bit of his insight today
.
And he's got a degree inarchitecture.
(02:24):
That kind of blew my mind whenhe said that.
I was like I did not hear that,but um worked off in in the
general contractor world beforebefore stepping up and and and
buying in an ownership of thisuh section of the company and
man, uh, kudos to you for doingit, but furthermore, welcome,
welcome, brother.
Thank you so much.
Glad to be here.
(02:44):
Thanks for having me.
Dude, it's been uh, it's beenlike I don't know, probably six
or eight months.
I gotta say trent reached outafter hearing the first I don't
know first couple episodes thatcome out and just shared some
insight, and I appreciate allyou guys behind the scenes that
are shooting me an email,dropping a little message on the
(03:06):
website hey Cy, look thisepisode.
I never thought about it likethat.
That helped me and that addedsome value into what I'm doing.
That's all I'm trying to dohere, guys and try and give
different perspectives in aaudience manner that you guys
can understand.
That we can understand, that Ican understand.
There's a lot of folks thatcome in understand that we can
understand, that I canunderstand.
There's a lot of folks thatcome in here speak a totally
(03:27):
different industry language thanI do and I can't even normally
compute their language.
You know what I mean, I knowwhat I mean.
So, but today I have beenlooking forward to this.
Trent reached out and said man,I really like what you're doing
.
I'd love to jump on there whenyou get some time, and he was
actually busy the last three orfour months, holidays, etc.
(03:47):
So, man, first question I gotfor you, let's take it all back.
Give us kind of the rundown ofthe steps.
Number one why did you want togo into architecture school.
My guy, start there for us, youbet, um, I'm a northwest
arkansas native.
Um graduated from west forkhigh school and, hey, west
(04:10):
fork's a fantastic school.
But these smaller schoolsaround here, at least when I was
going to high school, I mean,there wasn't a huge emphasis on
careers out there, you know, andthey brought in, you know, for
career days.
They typically brought inparents of some of the students
and they spoke for a little bitand just kind of gave their
spiel.
And at West Fork anyway, I feellike there's three big ones
(04:32):
Swepco, ozarks Electric, ateacher of some sort or
Washington County Sheriff, thosewere the three.
No man, if you went to WestFork, that was kind of your area
and obviously there's nothingwrong with those, but none of
those interested me.
So then you know, the other sideabout small schools too is they
push college, college, college.
(04:53):
You know you've got to go tocollege, and so that's what I
did, started college and Istarted reading the whole list
of all these hundreds of majorsthat they had to choose from.
I have no earthly idea what Iwant to do, and so in high
school I tore my ACL a couple oftimes and so I had to go to
physical therapy quite a bit.
(05:13):
So I was, like you know,physical therapist that sounds
like so jumped into that,started off with going towards
the biology route in college andthen realized, real quick, this
isn't for me.
So kind of looked around,looked at engineering there was
a couple in the agriculturalschool there that I looked at Ag
business yeah, ag business,supportive in the area, ag
physics, stuff like that and Ithought, you know, there could
(05:35):
be a healthy career on that.
But nothing really just sparkedmy interest until I was like
architecture.
I can remember as a kid layingon the floor with my dad looking
at floor plans of houses.
You know that's just what onething that he did a lot and I
thought, you know, that would bereally, really cool.
And so I interviewed him inschool, talked to the dean, we,
you know it went well andthought this is it, this is what
(05:56):
I want to do.
Well, it was like four yearslater I don't remember exactly
what I was doing, but I rememberhaving this like aha moment I'm
like I don't want to do this,you know, and I'm like I've
already paid all this money,I've already gotten, you know,
gone this far in school and Ican remember talking about a
fiance, now wise, I was like Ireally don't know that, I want
to draw this stuff all day, Iwant to build it.
(06:17):
And she was like what do youmean?
I was like I want to be adisruption.
And she's like construction, youknow, and thinking like you
know, and I can just tell like,um, you think of somebody,
construction, you're thinkingdirty jeans, tool bags, you know
all that kind of stuff, andthere's this stigma, yeah, and
working in construction.
I was like I'm like, yeah, Iwant to work in construction.
And, um, she was like, uh, likeokay, what does that look like?
(06:39):
And I felt like, you know, justher looking at me was like,
okay, what's wrong with you?
Yeah, what's going on, it's amajor question, it is absolutely
.
And so, um, you know, I justher looking at me was like okay,
what's wrong with you?
Yeah, it's going on, it's amajor question, it is Absolutely
.
And so, um, you know, I kind oflaid out what I wanted to do
and I remember, in that sameconversation or shortly
thereafter, I told her I said Iwant to be my own general
contractor.
And you know, I said there'smore to more to just working for
somebody.
I said I want to be my owngeneral.
(07:00):
That's a huge statement, I know, and I had no idea what it
meant.
No idea, fair enough, I justsaid it because I knew I wanted
to work for myself.
And so it was around that timeI think I was working at Battery
, outfitters and Rogers, justkind of working my way through
school.
I've worked all.
I mean, I worked 40 hours,probably most of the time
through school.
(07:27):
And so I got a call from nathanogden, owner of pickett, uh, and
who's they're out of favor,local general contractor, and
shout out we've done some work.
Oh, yeah, pickett's greatpeople and company.
I think they focus mainly onmultifamily now, but when I was
there we were doing all sorts ofstuff, and so, anyway, uh, he
called me and asked if I'd beinterested in a superintendent
position, assistantsuperintendent, superintendent
position, kind of hybrid deal,fair enough.
And I thought, okay, let's talkabout it and see what it comes
(07:49):
in.
So, anyway, interviewed therewith Will, and a couple days
later he offered me a job and hesaid when can you start?
And I said man, I'll startright now, you know, whenever
you want.
So I got on it and was ready torock and roll, and my first
project was an apartment complexin South Fayette and I had no
idea what I was doing.
(08:09):
I was just in the water justtrying to swim, you know, trying
to stay afloat, and so that'skind of how Civil as well.
Oh, yeah, everything, oh.
And so it was like that's how Ilearned.
The commercial world that's howI learned was just tossed in,
say, here you go, help get itdone.
The ones that survive, normallyBest stuff.
(08:30):
That's the way to learn.
It sucks.
I'm with you.
It's terrible, it's brutal.
You don't go home evermotivated.
Try to show up motivated andyou're demotivated by 805.
Pretty quick, 100%, I agree.
Pretty cool, exactly 100, Iagree.
That's that's how it was.
On that one too, it was just allhands on deck, get the job done
, kind of thing, and it was, youknow, seven days a week, uh,
multifamily, just constant.
(08:50):
And um, I can remember we justgot married, my wife and I.
I would come home in our onebedroom apartment and it would
be like seven o'clock afterworking, you know, 15 hours that
day, or whatever it was, andshe's like do you still want to
do this?
Yeah, I do, I do.
It's crazy, isn't it?
I promise yeah.
And so anyway, you know, fastforward a little bit, I worked
my way up a little bit and uh,at picket, and then some other
(09:12):
companies as well, and then herewe are, we uh.
So a little a limelight insightme and trent met on a project.
Um, it was super funny how weended up with the project.
Honestly it was a utility linebut it was done through a fire
contractor and it was like kindof just a divine intervention
(09:35):
moment.
And then shout out to Jonathan,because I met Jonathan as well
and we did great work out thereand we just kind of liked you
boys.
And what was the oldergentleman's name?
George Waldo.
There you go, waldo, that guy.
You probably learned a thing ortwo from that guy.
Oh, absolutely, I may not haveliked it, but I learned a thing,
(09:56):
I learned a thing or two.
And we were still green walkingthrough that kind of market
before we were nowhere nearready to be handling full civil
site projects, let alone dirt ortotal right.
But at that moment we werestill navigating.
But we had done the whole GCgame.
You know, get to work whateverfor a little while at that point
(10:19):
.
And so I think you guys saw,hopefully, some success from
that, but I met Trent there.
I think you guys saw, hopefully, some success from that, but I
met Trent there.
But 100% been encouragingthrough this whole transition to
see you hit 20 under 20, right,that was kind of a cool little
achievement.
I kind of gave him hell over itbecause I didn't get nominated
for that or anything you know,but anyways.
(10:40):
But congrats there, dude,that's awesome.
But circling back, so now we'vegot an architecture degree and
you're dead set on being ageneral contractor.
Um, even after picket, you sawlike or you know previous work
history, you saw what.
Maybe did you see the full lensof the tippy top before you got
(11:02):
to the tippy top?
How about that?
I don't think so.
Um, I don't either.
It was kind of like, um, youknow, again, I had this dream
like I want to work inconstruction.
I had no idea what it lookedlike to get there and I don't
even think that I'm there yet,probably will never get there,
um, but it's like I had thisdream and I'm like okay, what,
how do I achieve that one?
What does this look like?
(11:23):
And, and essentially I justworked my butt off.
I worked as hard as I couldtried to soak up as much
information as I could, becausethat's one thing where I feel
like me and there's a few otherarchitects that work in
construction now specifically,where we kind of look at things
a little differently and it setsus apart in a sense a little
(11:45):
bit, because architecture schoolis fantastic.
It's a fantastic program.
It's a very hard program.
What school I went to?
The Fay Jones School ofArchitecture.
You bet U of A and good, goodschool and so.
But they teach you, obviously,how to design.
They don't teach you how tobuild, and so drawing something
on paper is one thing.
Understanding how things gotogether was part of that, and
(12:08):
then understanding how you do it, yeah, how you execute the plan
, let alone profitably, exactlymore efficiently.
Different, yeah, efficiently isthe key.
It's completely different.
And so that's one thing where,like I probably start, I
probably graduated and startedworking construction, um, with a
little bit of a mindset, as I'mgoing to be pretty good at this
because I can draw it.
Yeah, it doesn't mean a thing,you know, that doesn't mean a
(12:30):
absolute thing, and so, um, youknow it, it doesn't translate
over into the construction world, and so I really, you know, I
felt like I was starting fromscratch.
Um, even though new grad, youknow, five-year degree from the
U of A, I was starting fromscratch Five-year degree.
Did you guys hear thatArchitecture Is engineering the
same?
Do you know?
I think it's four years.
Okay, wow, what's the extrayear for?
(12:52):
You don't know either.
No, I do.
There's a lot of informationthough, a lot of studios and
stuff.
Oh, my gosh, gosh.
Well, you know.
Okay, let's talk about yourvery and please be as private or
as open as you want to be here.
But you know, navigating,walking into an opportunity that
(13:14):
you had with SSI.
You got your magic opportunitythat you wanted.
It wasn't just something thatone in the GC world bringing one
up from the ground up.
It takes a decade, but beingable to navigate into that
opportunity.
I'd love to hear a little bitabout that and what SSI has been
(13:35):
for.
40, 50?
Started in 1969.
Well, 52 years, my mom's 52.
So, yeah, tell us a littleabout that.
You betcha, 52 years, that's mymom, my mom's 52.
So, um, yeah, tell us a little.
Yeah, you betcha, um.
So you know, after I left picket, the reason I left picket was,
um, that I found out that mywife was pregnant and it was
important for me for her to stayat home.
You know, I was like, okay,that's, that's what I want to
(13:57):
make happen, I want to find away to do it and, um, just on my
income it was just wasn'tenough.
So so I had an opportunity atanother GC and I took it.
And that was what kind of gotus to the point where I'm like,
okay, we can, we can do this.
And so, you know, I worked atother GCs and saw things that I
liked, saw things that I didn'tlike, and just, you know, I
(14:18):
agree with every business, youknow, and you can't really
change that until you get to thepoint where you're like, okay,
I'll run this business myself,yep, then I can make those
changes.
And so it was honestly all justluck of the draw, right place,
right time, this whole SSI thing, and through a mutual
connection to Leo, the formerowner of SSI, who is 80, I
(14:40):
believe he's 85 this year, thinkthe world of him.
I still talk to him all thetime.
He still comes up for lunchevery once in a while.
We chat and just catch up.
He's a really, really genuineguy.
Mutual connection with him, youknow he was, he was trying to
get out of the company, justsell it just because he was
tired of it.
Because, um, and if you don'tknow, this ssi started in fort
(15:00):
smith years and years ago um,and so I back in 69.
It's still like a year later,year or two later, they opened
up this office up here northwestarkansas, just as a branch
office, um, satellite, yeah,just satellite office.
You know, there's a lot of workup here.
So he just just brought asatellite office up there.
There's not a lot of work uphere.
I don't know what y'all think.
Stay away, stay away.
(15:23):
Anyway, in the 80s I think itwas in 84, he actually
incorporated this office towhere it was its own standalone
legal entity.
Okay, he just happened to ownthis one and the Fort Smith one.
I don't know if it was taxreasons or whatever it was
behind that, but I'm glad he did, because I wouldn't be here if
he didn't, and so so up, I mean,from 84 on, it was its own
(15:43):
standalone company and peoplealways think that, you know, it
was just a branch office.
But no, it was its own deal,own separate contractor's
license and everything, wow.
And so anyway, fast forward to,you know, 23,.
I had a mutual connection withhim and he wanted to stay at
(16:03):
that Fort Smith office Leo didand work down there, but he just
wanted to get rid of theNorthwest Arkansas office.
And so we talked money, wetalked you know what it would
look like on paper, things likethat and he initially said, ok,
let's, how about you buy in 20percent for 100 bucks?
And I was like, wow, okay, youknow, that's more of just a
gesture, a gift than anything,in that.
You know that, right, there iswhat really just said okay, this
guy's genuine, he means what hesays, he wants, you know, he
(16:26):
wants this thing to go into goodhands.
And again, we talked severaltimes before we, what a good
point.
And so, yeah, for a hundreddollars I bought 20 of the
company and was a, you know,shareholder in the company at
that point.
And, um, then it kind of gave meskin in the game, you know, it
gave me a lot of motive to realmindset switch.
And it really does.
It's crazy, you know, a hundreddollar bill slid across the
(16:46):
table but it's like, okay, thisis now my baby, you know, I
gotta, I gotta tend to thisthing, you know.
And so it does, your mindset uh, shifts a little bit.
And then, so you know, it was,that was in january of 23, I
guess.
And then, um, obviously, justyou know, bought the company out
throughout the year and got gotto the point where, you know,
(17:06):
uh, officially made the purchaseof the remainder of the shares
that he had.
And then, um, how was thatfeeling when it actually
happened?
I know it's getting to thepoint I've never been more
scared in my life.
But that day after that, Ithink I slept like a baby for a
solid day.
It was like, okay, I canbreathe.
But then it was like, okay,training wheels are off, yeah,
(17:28):
let's go, she's all yours, let'sgo.
And so that was.
You know, I had like a day,maybe two days.
It was like, okay, this is done, I can breathe.
And then it was like, okay,we're gonna go.
You know we can't stop, we'regonna hit the ground running.
And so ever since then, that'swhat I feel like it's been.
It's just been constant.
You know, just hit the groundrunning, just, uh, trying to
gain traction a little bit.
Because, um, not nothingnegative against ssi formally at
(17:53):
all, um, but in northwestArkansas for the past 15, 20
years or so, there had been.
A lot of people said that theywere just, they thought SSI shut
down, it was very minimal, theydidn't know that it was really
a thing anymore, maybe a coupleprojects here and there.
And you know, I look at thatand I'm like, okay, you know,
there could have been severalthings.
And again, I have been severalthings and again I don't know
(18:18):
most of the backstory on it.
But, um, uh, it's northwestarkansas.
Yeah, I mean, you know,especially over the last 50,
exactly years exactly, and we'vein this office, has done a ton
of stuff.
Uh, there's a building justright up the road here, harvey
pediatric.
It's a big, yeah, a big,pediatric center there, and
marlon blackwell shout out tohim on this one.
He's a fantastic architect, hewas the architect of record on
that and it's a stunningbuilding.
Well, our office built that and, uh, people don't realize that
(18:40):
and, uh, you know, I kind ofwant to revamp that history a
little bit.
You show some cool stuff, solet's, let's show that.
You know, let's showcase that,yeah, and so that's kind of been
my goal as of late is, uh, totry to broadcast what we, you
know what was done in the past,what we can do now, and here's,
here's why we can do it well,man.
So obviously, with buying into acompany like you have, man,
(19:04):
talk about some of thoseprocesses that was non-efficient
, like, oh my god, you guys arestill doing it this way, not to
shed any bad limelightwhatsoever, but just to open up
maybe that audience guy sittingout there going I ain't changing
these young pups, but he'slistening for a reason, you know
(19:27):
what I mean.
Maybe how you've navigated someof that change because I'm
assuming you still have someprevious employees, exactly so
they're used to these systemshow you're navigating that
change, because, from myexperience, is extremely
difficult.
Once you embody some cultureand embody processes or lack
(19:48):
thereof, and then trying tochange everybody, man, you start
seeing the shift and peoplestart just, you know, dropping
like flies.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I think the two biggest thingsthat I've done that were
curveballs to some of theemployees, but after doing them
they're like, oh, this makesmore sense.
Two things One formerly nobodyhad a credit card in the company
(20:12):
.
There were no credit cards out.
So if you needed to run thelows to, you know, get a drill
bit, you couldn't do it.
Yeah, you're the JC, you're thecatch all.
Exactly.
You know you have to call theoffice.
Hey, I need the drill bit.
Well, you know, either use yourpersonal card, bring in a
receipt and get a reimbursement,or whatever the case may be.
Um and so that that was thefirst one.
And uh, you know, leo the, theformer owner, you know, I don't.
(20:36):
I don't know what the mindsetwas there.
I think it was more trying tocontrol costs with, with not
giving credit cards, but I'veactually found that spending
stay the same, like we're notspending money.
You thought it was.
If you need to go to Lowe's,you just it's convenient, you
have credit cards, swipe it,you're good to go, just keep
track of your receipts.
And then the receipts.
That's the next thing that Ichanged too.
So it's kind of mind-blowing.
(20:57):
This office still used carbonpaper, and if you don't know
what carbon paper is, they usedcarbon paper for all their
purchase orders, and so Icompletely understand the
thought process of what theywere doing.
I really do, but I don't knowif you've ever priced carbon
paper.
It's unbelievably expensive.
You never even thought about it.
(21:17):
You can't really get it, and sowe have cases and this stuff at
the office, and because theybuy it in bulk, and I'm looking
at that like they spent so muchmoney on carbon paper.
So that you know, you can havea purchase order here, write it
and then you can have a copy ofit over here.
Well, what I've asked all of myemployees to do is, if you go to
the gas station to get fuel,you're going to get a receipt.
(21:38):
Well, there's an app calledAdobe Scan.
There you go and it's a freeapp.
You literally take a picture ofit, it converts it to a PDF and
you email it to our accountant.
Bingo, it's as simple as thatand you can throw the receipt
away.
I don't care.
Right, we all have that system.
But I need to shed some lightthere.
We're actually going throughkind of the same, not really the
(21:59):
transition.
Ours was here's a credit card,just get what you need.
And then spending did get alittle wonky because there
wasn't as much tracking, and sonow we've gone to a PO system
projects, but it's not really itis.
It was an approval system andwe were a lot more stricter on
it because it was so wide band,but now we've got it under
control.
If somebody needs something andthey know the material, I'll say
(22:21):
hey, just grabbing this,throwing it on the Amex or
whatever case it may be, get anapproval.
Yep Good, they know the invoiceis coming or the receipts
coming so they can track it.
But it's so important guys, ifyou're not sitting in that
ownership role, important guys,if you're not sitting in that
ownership role.
I know receipts you get houndedon all the time.
But the faster the estimators,the production managers, the
(22:44):
president, everybody up top cansee live time tracking to be
able to make decisions, to maybebenefit your position, that
you're sitting in, if they canactually see live black and
white what's going on.
So, and it starts with makingsure all your receipts are
turned in or making sure thatemail oh man, I forgot on a
tuesday.
And then you got sally in theregoing.
(23:05):
Well, who got fuel on a tuesday?
I can you call someone you knowit's like yes, ma'am, you've
got to, because you understandyou're the one asking miss sally
to make sure she reports whodoesn't?
It's just frustrating.
But I was just letting you guysknow out there, man, that the
labor tracking and the costtracking know your cost.
(23:30):
Um, I just wanted to highlightthat real quick.
But man, that's crazy.
Not even nobody, not a singlesoul.
I had a credit card, okay, um,but it was one of those deals
where, you know, even if I hadto go to lowe's, I would have to
call and say, hey, you know,I'm victory lowe's this gave 20
or whatever it is.
Uh-huh, I have to go buy this.
Well, do we really need it?
(23:50):
Well, yeah, we do.
You know, when you found thejob.
So, um, but you know, again,there's.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that, I think there's
just a more efficient way ofdoing it.
And what I've told the guys islike, you know, you know, like
my superintendents, they aretasked with getting the job done
.
If it's going to cost 20 bucksto get the job done, get the job
done.
If it's going to cost 20,000,let's talk about it.
(24:12):
You know, let's, let's chatabout that for a little bit.
But, uh, you know, I'm notgoing to sit there and bark at,
you know, 20, 50 if it's, ifit's going to help push the job,
100, because in today's world,with supply chain issues, all
this kind of stuff, uh, ournumber one goal is, you know,
customer satisfaction.
It's, you know, profitability.
Profitability comes, butcustomer satisfaction is how you
(24:33):
get the repeat business.
So if we can show our clientsthat we are really trying to
push, then that's the number onegoal.
And if it costs $20, it costs$20.
It's just so different from yourside of the table on the GC
perspective than it is.
You know, don't get me wrong,we had talked a little
beforehand.
How you know, I say here on thechannel, all the time go on or
(24:56):
negotiate it, if you can bypassthe general talking to my dirt
guys.
But you know, anybody that'shelping build that, building,
having that relationship.
And I wrote that down becauseisn't it funny?
I talk about it every singleepisode, isn't that funny?
You had a relationship with aguy.
That a guy had a relationshipwith just at a divine moment of
(25:18):
time and said, hey, I reallywant that, oh really.
And then here you are.
It's insane.
It's it's treating Number oneif you're in a customer
relationship, yes, there's badcustomers out there, but
treating that customer with themindset of, oh, they've got
another project coming.
I better not just hit a homeron this one.
(25:38):
You know what I mean.
Okay, if we hit a double, oh,we barely got the first base.
We thought we were going to hita double.
It all comes, but they've gotanother one coming and to get.
That's how we look at you guys.
But at the same time, you knowit's such an awkward
conversation because I don'thave to view it like that.
You know what I mean.
(25:58):
There's always don't I do, butnot to the retrospective level
of, pardon me, what you guyshave to, man and um, blue collar
performance marketing.
These guys are behind thescenes on the cyclone side,
helping the YouTube channel,helping our social media
presence, touching our website,doing some retractions,
(26:23):
additions and really giving methat full package strategy.
If you guys are looking forsomebody or have questions about
who I'm going to ask questionsto, it's Blue Collar Performance
Marketing.
You can get it atbcperformancemarketingcom,
backslash BCcbpodcast.
They're going to give you anentire complimentary on them
overview of your website, yourmarketing strategy and campaign
(26:45):
that you've got going on rightnow.
Have a discovery call with them.
Find out some of your painpoints and what maybe you would
like to see results from.
So check them out, guys over atbcperformancemarketingcom.
Sorry, trent, where were we?
Bubba?
That's where I was just talkingabout man.
(27:06):
You've navigated every singleposition on your way up this GC
climb, obviously working in thebusiness.
We were just talking aboutjumping in a skid, steer a dozer
and spending eight, 10 hours.
But where did you find yourstrengths and weaknesses?
As you're I mean being at thetop I've got some weaknesses
(27:30):
that I just wish I didn't have.
You know what I mean, but I do.
And you navigated each andevery role, maybe your favorite
position, maybe your leastposition and here you are now.
You know yeah, you bet yeah.
So I started off workingessentially as a superintendent,
assistant superintendent, youknow, just really just cutting
my teeth in the commercial world, and I absolutely fell in love
(27:54):
working, and so this is kind ofthe beauty of construction Every
position is a little different.
It's like as a superintendent,you're focused on one project.
Typically, maybe you have aside little project on the side
and you're trying to knock outas well, but your main focus is
one project and that says a lot.
Now you can really channel yourfocus into that thing and know
(28:14):
every detail about that job.
And that's really what drew meto being a superintendent.
And you know I loved it becauseyou were involved with the subs
every day.
You got to play on equipment.
Occasionally we're on a GC side, you know.
Typically we sub all that out,but you know, every once in a
while you can play on someequipment, which is always fun,
(28:34):
and so I really fell in lovewith that.
And then it was, I guess about ayear and a half or so later I
was brought into the office tohelp with some estimating that
they were doing, but also someproject management, specifically
that school, that where weactually met on that Prairie
Grove Middle School there, andso I was brought in as a PM on
(28:54):
that, but then kind of anon-site project manager as well,
as it needs further intoprogression there.
And so, bouncing from positionto position, I feel like project
management is kind of where Ihad.
My aha moment is where I callit like everything kind of
clicked, like what I was doingand because in the field, you
(29:15):
know, I knew, I knew what my jobwas, but I didn't always know
what the project manager wasdoing behind the scenes, right,
and then so, um, as Itransitioned more into that
project manager role, I'm like,oh, this, this might be why he
couldn't answer the phone 20times today, you know.
And so, uh, it kind of it wasmy aha moment and that's really.
The other folks fell more inlove with construction.
I absolutely loved it and um,and that was actually at
(29:39):
commerce construction where umcat was really really they're
fantastic, yeah, they're awesome, awesome company.
Um, that's kind of where I waslike, okay, training wheels are
off in this role.
Um, I was kind of doing my ownthing, right, and the way they
operate.
There is a business model thatI really do enjoy and I would
love to have our office kind ofmimic that, as a project manager
(30:02):
, you take the estimate, youknow, you meet with the client.
You start out with what theywant.
You estimate the job.
You know, once the contract'sexecuted if it goes that far
hopefully it does then youactually manage the project and
the books after that.
And I think that some companiesdon't do that.
Where they have a full-timeestimator, there's nothing wrong
with that whatsoever.
(30:22):
But I think the beauty ofmanaging a project that you
estimated, you know what money'sin there, you know where it's
at and you know if you get to apoint on the job where you have
to rob Peter to pay Paul, so tospeak, within the budget.
You know where you've got fluff, where you're going to be, you
know you can wiggle on incertain areas and that makes it
so much easier instead of going.
(30:43):
Oh, you know, let me call theestimator.
What, what's this?
What's this here?
You know what's this cost code.
You know what it is Cause y'alldid it.
Now it's not right.
Well, that's your fault, youcan't blame these.
There ain't no hiding.
Exactly so keeps everybodyhonest, makes it more efficient.
I really liked that.
And so at Commerce, that's kindof where everything just
(31:05):
clicked and I truly fell in lovewith projects that we had
obviously multiple.
That one time I got fairly goodat juggling.
You know multiple projects andit was awesome.
That's something I stillnavigate and struggle with today
is juggling.
You know all the different hats, but yeah, that's kind of where
that's probably my favoriterole was more project management
(31:27):
.
And you know Nick Peters, whowas on the podcast, who we
talked to quite a bit, andthat's actually because I
watched that podcast.
I'm going to try to develop abusiness relationship with him
and his team now so that youknow, thank you for that.
That was an awesome podcastwe're talking.
You know he always says work onthe business, not for it, and
(31:48):
that's what I'm trying to do nowand eventually I want to get to
a point where the business isjust doing its own thing, to
where I can run some projects.
But right now we're at thatpoint where it's.
You know I've got to developthe entire corporation.
Let these guys handle that andtry to take it on man.
Developing that team andstrategy is so hard.
That is a very unique businessmodel for sure, but at the same
(32:11):
time we all navigate it a littledifferently to get to the same
result that we feel isbeneficial and it's all shaped
around experience.
I think you know what I mean.
You know, in the short tenurethat I've had going on here, I
definitely move from scarredexperience of things going bad
(32:32):
and I think a lot of timescompanies start building braces
around those scars andnecessarily shouldn't be as deep
of a scar as it should be.
You know what I mean.
But we have a full-timeestimator.
It's definitely that's the kindof that blurred line where that
would be extremely difficultfor a sub to do.
(32:52):
But in the GC model I could see, oh my God, super benefits with
that.
Now you got to have a PMwilling to stand on his own and
really own it and I was talkingto you mentioned that earlier.
Man is when that mindsetswitched and it's just a $100
bill going across the table atthat time, but it was like
(33:14):
instant.
I know that's what you'retalking about.
I woke up that Monday with thismini excellent back of my truck
one day and I went oh my God,it's all me.
Yeah, this is it, it's your job, and so, anyways, have you had
to struggle with that gettingfolks to buy into that team and
maybe not and what have you doneto correct especially some
(33:37):
folks that have been there 10,20 years?
I know they've been around along time.
Um, and you know you've got newage coming in, trying to set new
age efficiencies, and how haveyou been navigating that?
A little bit, it's.
It's not been as bad as I wasthinking.
It probably would be Awesome.
Um, it's been really, reallygood.
Um, we had a solid team.
Um, anything I need done,obviously they're going to do it
(33:58):
and you know, they know thatwhatever they need, I'm going to
try my best to get it done.
Um, so we've got a really solidteam and, um, everybody there
is fantastic and I think, um, sowe've got I mean, we've got one
guy, one of our superintendentshas been there in excess of 30
years now and he's one of thebest superintendents in
northwest Arkansas.
(34:19):
As far as I'm concerned, he's arock star and so, yeah, it's
been good.
The team we've got is solid andit was a massive blessing to be
able to keep that.
Yeah, obviously, I bought thecompany, but also I inherited
the employees, and sometimesthat sounds scary, but it's like
these people are rock stars,you know they really work, and
so I just need a little support.
(34:39):
Yeah, exactly, they just neededsomebody there to, and I'm you
know I might not be that person100%, but they just needed
someone there to.
You know, just keep them movingin the right direction, and so,
but, yeah, it's, I've got asolid team, and so I don't know
if I really answered yourquestion.
No, no, no, you absolutely did.
I mean, you've got this.
It's really cool.
(35:07):
It sounds like your 30-year-oldsuperintendent, or ladies in the
office that have been there along time, are excited for this
change, and I have found withinmyself and my company as well my
guy is that a lot of times,they're just looking and waiting
for the leader to do somethingabout it.
A lot of times, they're justlooking and waiting for the
leader to do something about it,and a lot of times for me, it
took me a few years to go andcatch myself and go why is this
going like this?
Oh, that's your problem.
Stupid Like, do something aboutit, don't just expect a
(35:29):
different result.
And yes, it comes with changeand accountability, but to have
folks like that put in alifetime at a company, of course
I think, as long as I thinkthat's a testament to you is
where I was going with this.
Is that being the right-mindedleader to go?
Oh, these guys know their jobs.
(35:50):
I just need to be the supportsystem in the tree right now
until I can figure out where thesupport roles are needed to be
able to plug those holes.
But every single day, I couldn'timagine being a CGC dude.
We already smiled and laughedabout that earlier.
But man, you guys are thecatch-all Us subcontractors.
(36:10):
We're not very easy to dealwith.
We're always.
We want our money right now andI'm done with 52% of the job,
but I want 100%.
Come on, gc, you screwed it up.
It's always your fault.
And man, having 20 subs perproject, I couldn't even imagine
that.
But thank God for goodsuperintendents, thank God for
good project managers, before itgets up there.
(36:32):
But where are you seeing ssiheading man?
I want to hear the next, yeah,one to three year hopeful goal
or maybe just a projection ofwhere you think you're heading?
Yeah, you bet.
So whenever I, when I bought ssi, I had to sit down and go okay,
where do I want this to go?
You know, obviously you gottahave a business plan.
And I started thinking youthink that's obvious, but
(36:54):
there's a lot of blue collarguys out there like me yeah, we,
I did not have a plan orstrategy until like two years
ago and my plan is hand writtenand you know, it's just
something there's.
There's nothing official, justvery simple.
Um, but I had to sit there andthink, okay, do I want to be
bald woman, shell or nam holtzor some of these massive gcs
(37:15):
which I think?
I think namholz is now abillion-dollar company, they're
huge which you know they justbought.
You know a ton of other smallersubcontractors out and so
they're growing their you knowthe repertoire massively and I'm
like do I want to be that?
And then my first thought wasabsolutely not.
No, there's no way in the worldI want to do that and I still
stick by that.
You no, there's no way in theworld I want to do that and I
(37:37):
still stick by that.
You know I don't want to be thebiggest contractor in Northwest
Arkansas.
You know you start having 20,30, 40 employees on staff.
That's more to manage, that'smore headache.
To an extent, you know you canstill have rock solid employees,
but it's.
You know you got to juggle.
You know John's vacation timeover here Well, you know this
person.
You got to juggle so much moreand I don't want any part of
(37:57):
that.
And but what I do want to do isshow people that you know we can
absolutely handle largerprojects with the crew that
we've got, because we have, youknow, different, you know
operating procedures in placethat try that we at least try to
abide by to, to make us moreefficient, because efficiency is
key in this industry, and youknow.
(38:23):
So, with all that said, I don'twant to be the biggest, but I
want to have that reputationwhere it's like okay, call SSI,
they'll, you know they'll helpyou out, whatever the case may
be.
And I remember one time I wasat Commerce Construction and we
were working there and somebodycame up and asked about a
project and one of the owner'scomments was well, we're booked
out.
You know, year, year and a halfor so and they're like well, we
can wait.
I want to get to that point,that's a plus.
(38:44):
Okay, we can wait.
You know that that project ownercan wait a little bit to start
the job until that GC is done,because they want to use that GC
.
Well, and it's not just from amoney perspective.
The money is, yes, for a lot ofthese clientele, customer base,
money's their number oneconcern, and it's not
necessarily how much it is, it'sjust how long can I hold on to
(39:07):
the money, or whatever the casemay be.
But there's a whole differentcustomer base that is way more
concerned with deadline, timeand schedule than they are.
Cost Now, cost is cost to themand they understand that as long
as they ain't getting theirhead took off.
These guys over here when theysay August 20th, we're done on
August 20th, we got to be doneon August 20th, so no schedule
(39:31):
delays.
And so those are therelationships that are hard to
navigate when you're I can onlyimagine for a GC.
But just for my sake is, I'm anunderground contractor in all
capacities.
If we hit unsuitable soils andI didn't even warn you that this
may be a thing hey, hold upbefore you ship eight or nine
(40:00):
semis out here and put it downin a mud hole.
You know it's anyways don'tquite know where I was going
with that fellows, but, um, I'mnumber one.
I'm proud of you, dude.
I wanted to share that.
I appreciate that.
I uh, I think it's very noble,I think it's yeah, passion has
to be there.
But to walk into a GC role andunderstand that it's not about
(40:26):
let's be on every corner andmake no money, but to model
around a company that commercehas an amazing reputation in the
subcontractor world as well, tohave that reputation and a
clientele reputation, becausethat client's sitting there
going.
Well, we'll wait, because Iknow there's going to be way
less unexpected crap that I'vegot to deal with during my time
(40:48):
and deadline and my project willget done.
When I said it was going to getdone because you guys did six
years ago, you did a strip mall,whatever the case may be, you
know, and it's you're right, assoon as you do get ahold of
those clients, it's reoccurring.
You've got to be thinking aboutthat next project and how this
one is going the entire time,because if not, you're losing
your shot.
You know, and, man, just, Iencourage you for sure, cause I
(41:12):
could only imagine some of yourdays in phone calls.
It's a roller coaster for sure.
You know it doesn't stop.
And lately the email has beenwhat really kills me.
I get a ton of emails a day.
But yeah, no, absolutely, andthat's the thing you know.
Right now in Northwest Arkansasthere is so much going on, but
(41:33):
there's also so many differentGCs.
Much going on, but there's alsoso many different GCs and
that's like you know the, therepeat business.
You know your reputation.
That's make or break.
You know cause.
A lot of times it is aboutmoney, like you said.
But um, you know there's somany different people that are
coming in here as out of townGCs opening up branch offices
here, and they're just hungryfor it.
(41:55):
They're going througheverything they can just to get
some of this work.
And some of these smaller localguys that have been here for
forever that you know, maybeless known, they're getting
weeded out really quickly andit's kind of eye-opening really.
So it's like you have to revampyour business model around that
too.
And, dude, it's so funny You'reseeing that in the GC world
because if you're on any type ofsocial media, you know somebody
(42:19):
everybody that I'm talking toright now that has gone and
bought a skid steer and a duallyin a truck.
You know what I mean.
Like every Tom, dick and Harryis a guy, is a dirt guy now.
And it's like, thank God inArkansas, where you know we have
contractor's licenses, and butour neighboring States, you know
, oklahoma, missouri, it's awild, wild West.
You know what I mean.
I couldn't imagine over there.
(42:40):
But thank God we have thatprotection of being licensed
contractors.
But and fighting over anythingthat that's hole filler, oh my
gosh dude.
But then I was just on thephone yesterday, um crew looking
for work.
Another company can't makepayroll and not judging, let me
tell you it's freaking hardmaking payroll.
(43:02):
You entrepreneurs out there itusually hits like here's payroll
and nobody paid.
Like they said they were goingto what do you mean?
Like that was my payroll thisweek.
Like we paid all our, like whatdo we?
So yeah, I'm telling you, I,yeah, I completely, completely
yeah, and that's it's.
It's that way on the gc world.
(43:23):
So you know, don't think anydifferently there.
It's um, we've got, we've gotreceivables that are way past
120 days.
Right, it's like, and you knowthat's that's where my job gets
really hard, because you builtthat next one, oh yeah, and it's
like you know you really wantto treat that client well, but
it's's like, okay, well, youknow here's, you know, in some
cases it could be half a million, some some cases it could be a
(43:43):
million dollars that we'rewaiting on.
I'm like, well, where's this at?
You know where we're looking at.
I gets to a point where wereally try to take care of sub,
but, um, it's hard, it's hard.
This year alone, um, we've seenmore, you know, extended pay
(44:06):
terms than I ever have, and Idon't know why.
I'm so glad to hear you saythat because, man, it was funny,
after covid, like it was, youalways had day 75, they're going
to start hollering at you.
Hey, we've really got to getsome attention to this.
Yep, get you written updatehere's when it's coming.
(44:26):
That's about all it was AfterCOVID and all the supply chain
went like it did, that 75 became45 and that 90 became 60.
Yeah, and that 90 is where theyshut you off, but 60, now you
smoke bold.
Well, when you adjust that over, you know, last year was tough,
dude.
The last two years was brutal,but last year, specifically 24,
(44:49):
I'll never forget the rest of mylife just from the fading of
COVID and still dealing withhyperinflation and hypercost
that people don't understand.
That's not coming down yet.
Got a 5% increase on all rockand all concrete heading into
the year, like why.
You know what I mean.
Anyways, that's a totallydifferent subject matter for
(45:09):
today.
But no, I hope to encourage afew guys that are sitting out
there in the same position thatyou are.
Hopefully they're sitting inthat PM role or that super role
going man, I'd really like tofreaking do this and do it the
way I want to do it andencourage them.
It can be done.
He's sitting here.
Do right by people so that whenthat relationship does strike
(45:39):
up, you're ready to strike onthat opportunity and be able to
come to the table with a goodreputation and all the sponge
knowledge.
It's not like you just woke upand were a CEO the next day.
My guy, it's tough, isn't it?
It still is.
It still is.
Working in the business is fun.
Working on the business most ofthe time sucks and it's the
hard nitty gritty and in myexperience, the first two to
five years, dude, I want to doevery little thing myself
(46:01):
because I was so scared of itand instead of delegating.
Hey, cpa, you hand a payroll.
Hey, fractional HR, you handlethis and figure out where I'm at
and let me go produce.
And it took me a long time tofigure that out, dude, it really
did.
But um, that's my biggeststruggle, I think, too, is
delegating.
(46:21):
You know, I want to have a handin everything.
So welcome to being a trueentrepreneur, bud, because we
all struggle with it and I think.
But that's the problem withscale, that's the problem with
scaling, like until you get outof your head what you want to do
on paper that people can readand follow it and follow a
process because of what you knowyour head on paper.
(46:43):
You know what I mean.
It took me until year seven andsome people don't ever find it
out.
I know companies that I'mliterally doing work for right
now that are 45 year companiesand my jaw drops to the ground
when they call me and ask someof the questions.
They do.
I'm like, guys, what do youmean?
This or this?
Like you're at like mindblowing stuff, companies around
(47:06):
here that would floor you, butyou know what you got to deal
with.
So I got one more question.
I've been kind of rambling here,guys.
I apologize, but I've reallyenjoyed our conversation.
Dude's been insightful for me.
Dude, honestly, more than you'dprobably realize, um, but that
blue collar guy, lady mansitting out there who's just
(47:27):
sick and tired of being stuck inthe mud.
I ask it on every episode andyou've probably prepared for
this question if you've listenedto a few.
But it can be mental, physical,emotional.
We've all been there and youare the epitome of the person
I'm trying to talk to from.
You were at this level and yousaid screw this, I'm going here,
(47:48):
this is how I'm doing it.
Yep, give us a takeaway forthat blue collar just sitting
there stuck in the mud, but justdo it, just do it.
Um, so being stuck in the mud is, um, it is, it's.
It's a situation where it'slike, I mean, you just don't
(48:09):
know what to do.
You know you have no idea whereto go, what you're doing, all
that kind of stuff.
Um, the biggest thing that I doand I do this every day is I
take time.
I take, you know, five, 10minutes, whatever it is.
Just sit back and just think,um, shut your phone off, shut
your TV off, whatever the caseis.
Just sit there and think, andyou know those little micro
thoughts that I have can compileyou know X amount of days,
(48:31):
weeks, months, whatever it is,um to an idea.
You just try to develop thatidea and just do it.
You know, just execute,whatever it takes, just get it
done.
And yeah, being stuck in the mudis and I've been there.
You know I was burnt out onworking and just didn't like
what I was doing, all that kindof stuff, and that just made a
change.
Just do it, just get out there.
(48:53):
It's really that easy dude itis.
Just get out there.
It's really that easy dude itis.
But once you do it, you've gotto keep doing it.
That's the hard.
That's the hard part, likemaking the decision most people
won't even do, jumping offentrepreneurial whatever, and a
lot of them don't need to.
Just to be fair, a lot of yearsme.
But at the same time, as longas you make the jump, that's's
(49:16):
step one.
But then reoccurring, doingwhatever you're doing month
after month after month andtrying to grow it a little bit,
is probably one of the mostdifficult things I've ever done
in my entire life.
I agree.
But I will say the one thingyou know on to that point it is
one of the most difficult thingsthat you'll ever do.
It's mind blowing how manypeople are in your corner.
It is unbelievably mind blowing.
(49:38):
I mean people that I'd nevereven thought would be my banker,
one of my best.
You know that's an awesomerelationship.
They're in your corner, they'refighting for you.
You know these people arerooting for you and people come
out of the woodworks to root foryou and that you know that's.
That's a game changer.
I mean, it makes it totallyworth it.
Dude.
I literally I was on to wrap itup here it's the emails that I
(50:03):
get from audience members.
It's the uh DM on TikTok,instagram.
Just a short hey, man, I reallyappreciate you and all the
things that you're putting outthere.
It's not easy putting yourselfout there in the marketing world
and for the internet to bashyou and everything else, but
it's the people that you trulyhelp along the freaking way.
(50:24):
Dude, it is, you're right, it'sso rewarding, I think.
Fulfilling, I think would bethe word yeah, and but no
testament to you.
I hope you guys have absolutelyloved today's episode.
I think we have to have youback.
I think we're going to have tohave you back and probably a few
(50:45):
questions are going to getasked from this episode.
I have a feeling just becauseyou're such a unique I mean
literally how you navigated itis very unique and I'm hoping it
encourages a guy or two outthere.
And they've got some questions.
So where can they find you?
Linkedin?
I know you're on LinkedIn.
Yeah, linkedin.
I have a Facebook.
I have an Instagram.
I don't get on very much as faras the company pages go.
(51:07):
Yeah, linkedin, facebook,instagram.
I think our businessdevelopment manager is also
doing TikTok, oh, I think.
Okay, I've never had a TikTokin my life and I think she is
starting to do those.
So be on the lookout for thatas well.
So LinkedIn sounds like a goodspot to shoot Mr Hanna a DM and
(51:28):
get to know him and his story.
Good connections, build thoserelationships, guys.
Till next time.
Guys, we're coming at you every5 am on Wednesdays, every
single week.
Catch it on all your podcaststreaming platforms, but you can
watch totally for free if youdon't have a subscription, or
listen for free straight fromthe website at
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
(51:50):
Trent.
Thank you again.
Seriously, it was moreinsightful than you probably
realized, but I reallyappreciate you and I hope it
encourages somebody today.
Until next time.
You guys be safe.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like.
Share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
(52:11):
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Welcome back, guys, to anotherepisode of the blue collar
business podcast brought to youand sponsored by this beautiful
studio we are in today here atpodcastvideoscom in the Rogers,
arkansas location.
You guys know I have beenjoined forces with them for
(00:50):
almost a solid year now.
Love this team, love theirstudio.
They always are super helpfulabout getting guests connected
If there's any type of schedulechanges.
Navigating to folks that run abusiness and trying to get them
in the same room at the sametime can be extremely tough
sometimes Just doing a project,let alone trying to do a podcast
(01:14):
or something out of theordinary.
So shout out to those guys hereat podcastvideoscom.
Today I've got a special guestand I think we have done another
General Contractor episode hereat BlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom
.
You can go check that out.
But that was more of a resistepping into light commercial,
(01:38):
into the commercial game.
Today I'm bringing you a littlebit of a different show.
We've been trying to line thisup for like a year, as I was
just talking about it.
This is a true blue historicalcommercial GC and today I
(02:02):
brought to you guys Trent Hanna,the president of SSI Northwest
Arkansas.
He is a younger generation guylike myself, trying to figure
out this whole project world andthe well, that's how we've
always done it and trying tonavigate.
Well, that's probably not themost efficient and profitable.
So we're going to get to hear alittle bit of his insight today
.
And he's got a degree inarchitecture.
(02:24):
That kind of blew my mind whenhe said that.
I was like I did not hear that,but um worked off in in the
general contractor world beforebefore stepping up and and and
buying in an ownership of thisuh section of the company and
man, uh, kudos to you for doingit, but furthermore, welcome,
welcome, brother.
Thank you so much.
Glad to be here.
(02:44):
Thanks for having me.
Dude, it's been uh, it's beenlike I don't know, probably six
or eight months.
I gotta say trent reached outafter hearing the first I don't
know first couple episodes thatcome out and just shared some
insight, and I appreciate allyou guys behind the scenes that
are shooting me an email,dropping a little message on the
(03:06):
website hey Cy, look thisepisode.
I never thought about it likethat.
That helped me and that addedsome value into what I'm doing.
That's all I'm trying to dohere, guys and try and give
different perspectives in aaudience manner that you guys
can understand.
That we can understand, that Ican understand.
There's a lot of folks thatcome in understand that we can
understand, that I canunderstand.
There's a lot of folks thatcome in here speak a totally
(03:27):
different industry language thanI do and I can't even normally
compute their language.
You know what I mean, I knowwhat I mean.
So, but today I have beenlooking forward to this.
Trent reached out and said man,I really like what you're doing
.
I'd love to jump on there whenyou get some time, and he was
actually busy the last three orfour months, holidays, etc.
(03:47):
So, man, first question I gotfor you, let's take it all back.
Give us kind of the rundown ofthe steps.
Number one why did you want togo into architecture school.
My guy, start there for us, youbet, um, I'm a northwest
arkansas native.
Um graduated from west forkhigh school and, hey, west
(04:10):
fork's a fantastic school.
But these smaller schoolsaround here, at least when I was
going to high school, I mean,there wasn't a huge emphasis on
careers out there, you know, andthey brought in, you know, for
career days.
They typically brought inparents of some of the students
and they spoke for a little bitand just kind of gave their
spiel.
And at West Fork anyway, I feellike there's three big ones
(04:32):
Swepco, ozarks Electric, ateacher of some sort or
Washington County Sheriff, thosewere the three.
No man, if you went to WestFork, that was kind of your area
and obviously there's nothingwrong with those, but none of
those interested me.
So then you know, the other sideabout small schools too is they
push college, college, college.
(04:53):
You know you've got to go tocollege, and so that's what I
did, started college and Istarted reading the whole list
of all these hundreds of majorsthat they had to choose from.
I have no earthly idea what Iwant to do, and so in high
school I tore my ACL a couple oftimes and so I had to go to
physical therapy quite a bit.
(05:13):
So I was, like you know,physical therapist that sounds
like so jumped into that,started off with going towards
the biology route in college andthen realized, real quick, this
isn't for me.
So kind of looked around,looked at engineering there was
a couple in the agriculturalschool there that I looked at Ag
business yeah, ag business,supportive in the area, ag
physics, stuff like that and Ithought, you know, there could
(05:35):
be a healthy career on that.
But nothing really just sparkedmy interest until I was like
architecture.
I can remember as a kid layingon the floor with my dad looking
at floor plans of houses.
You know that's just what onething that he did a lot and I
thought, you know, that would bereally, really cool.
And so I interviewed him inschool, talked to the dean, we,
you know it went well andthought this is it, this is what
(05:56):
I want to do.
Well, it was like four yearslater I don't remember exactly
what I was doing, but I rememberhaving this like aha moment I'm
like I don't want to do this,you know, and I'm like I've
already paid all this money,I've already gotten, you know,
gone this far in school and Ican remember talking about a
fiance, now wise, I was like Ireally don't know that, I want
to draw this stuff all day, Iwant to build it.
(06:17):
And she was like what do youmean?
I was like I want to be adisruption.
And she's like construction, youknow, and thinking like you
know, and I can just tell like,um, you think of somebody,
construction, you're thinkingdirty jeans, tool bags, you know
all that kind of stuff, andthere's this stigma, yeah, and
working in construction.
I was like I'm like, yeah, Iwant to work in construction.
And, um, she was like, uh, likeokay, what does that look like?
(06:39):
And I felt like, you know, justher looking at me was like,
okay, what's wrong with you?
Yeah, what's going on, it's amajor question, it is absolutely
.
And so, um, you know, I justher looking at me was like okay,
what's wrong with you?
Yeah, it's going on, it's amajor question, it is Absolutely
.
And so, um, you know, I kind oflaid out what I wanted to do
and I remember, in that sameconversation or shortly
thereafter, I told her I said Iwant to be my own general
contractor.
And you know, I said there'smore to more to just working for
somebody.
I said I want to be my owngeneral.
(07:00):
That's a huge statement, I know, and I had no idea what it
meant.
No idea, fair enough, I justsaid it because I knew I wanted
to work for myself.
And so it was around that timeI think I was working at Battery
, outfitters and Rogers, justkind of working my way through
school.
I've worked all.
I mean, I worked 40 hours,probably most of the time
through school.
(07:27):
And so I got a call from nathanogden, owner of pickett, uh, and
who's they're out of favor,local general contractor, and
shout out we've done some work.
Oh, yeah, pickett's greatpeople and company.
I think they focus mainly onmultifamily now, but when I was
there we were doing all sorts ofstuff, and so, anyway, uh, he
called me and asked if I'd beinterested in a superintendent
position, assistantsuperintendent, superintendent
position, kind of hybrid deal,fair enough.
And I thought, okay, let's talkabout it and see what it comes
(07:49):
in.
So, anyway, interviewed therewith Will, and a couple days
later he offered me a job and hesaid when can you start?
And I said man, I'll startright now, you know, whenever
you want.
So I got on it and was ready torock and roll, and my first
project was an apartment complexin South Fayette and I had no
idea what I was doing.
(08:09):
I was just in the water justtrying to swim, you know, trying
to stay afloat, and so that'skind of how Civil as well.
Oh, yeah, everything, oh.
And so it was like that's how Ilearned.
The commercial world that's howI learned was just tossed in,
say, here you go, help get itdone.
The ones that survive, normallyBest stuff.
(08:30):
That's the way to learn.
It sucks.
I'm with you.
It's terrible, it's brutal.
You don't go home evermotivated.
Try to show up motivated andyou're demotivated by 805.
Pretty quick, 100%, I agree.
Pretty cool, exactly 100, Iagree.
That's that's how it was.
On that one too, it was just allhands on deck, get the job done
, kind of thing, and it was, youknow, seven days a week, uh,
multifamily, just constant.
(08:50):
And um, I can remember we justgot married, my wife and I.
I would come home in our onebedroom apartment and it would
be like seven o'clock afterworking, you know, 15 hours that
day, or whatever it was, andshe's like do you still want to
do this?
Yeah, I do, I do.
It's crazy, isn't it?
I promise yeah.
And so anyway, you know, fastforward a little bit, I worked
my way up a little bit and uh,at picket, and then some other
(09:12):
companies as well, and then herewe are, we uh.
So a little a limelight insightme and trent met on a project.
Um, it was super funny how weended up with the project.
Honestly it was a utility linebut it was done through a fire
contractor and it was like kindof just a divine intervention
(09:35):
moment.
And then shout out to Jonathan,because I met Jonathan as well
and we did great work out thereand we just kind of liked you
boys.
And what was the oldergentleman's name?
George Waldo.
There you go, waldo, that guy.
You probably learned a thing ortwo from that guy.
Oh, absolutely, I may not haveliked it, but I learned a thing,
(09:56):
I learned a thing or two.
And we were still green walkingthrough that kind of market
before we were nowhere nearready to be handling full civil
site projects, let alone dirt ortotal right.
But at that moment we werestill navigating.
But we had done the whole GCgame.
You know, get to work whateverfor a little while at that point
(10:19):
.
And so I think you guys saw,hopefully, some success from
that, but I met Trent there.
I think you guys saw, hopefully, some success from that, but I
met Trent there.
But 100% been encouragingthrough this whole transition to
see you hit 20 under 20, right,that was kind of a cool little
achievement.
I kind of gave him hell over itbecause I didn't get nominated
for that or anything you know,but anyways.
(10:40):
But congrats there, dude,that's awesome.
But circling back, so now we'vegot an architecture degree and
you're dead set on being ageneral contractor.
Um, even after picket, you sawlike or you know previous work
history, you saw what.
Maybe did you see the full lensof the tippy top before you got
(11:02):
to the tippy top?
How about that?
I don't think so.
Um, I don't either.
It was kind of like, um, youknow, again, I had this dream
like I want to work inconstruction.
I had no idea what it lookedlike to get there and I don't
even think that I'm there yet,probably will never get there,
um, but it's like I had thisdream and I'm like okay, what,
how do I achieve that one?
What does this look like?
(11:23):
And, and essentially I justworked my butt off.
I worked as hard as I couldtried to soak up as much
information as I could, becausethat's one thing where I feel
like me and there's a few otherarchitects that work in
construction now specifically,where we kind of look at things
a little differently and it setsus apart in a sense a little
(11:45):
bit, because architecture schoolis fantastic.
It's a fantastic program.
It's a very hard program.
What school I went to?
The Fay Jones School ofArchitecture.
You bet U of A and good, goodschool and so.
But they teach you, obviously,how to design.
They don't teach you how tobuild, and so drawing something
on paper is one thing.
Understanding how things gotogether was part of that, and
(12:08):
then understanding how you do it, yeah, how you execute the plan
, let alone profitably, exactlymore efficiently.
Different, yeah, efficiently isthe key.
It's completely different.
And so that's one thing where,like I probably start, I
probably graduated and startedworking construction, um, with a
little bit of a mindset, as I'mgoing to be pretty good at this
because I can draw it.
Yeah, it doesn't mean a thing,you know, that doesn't mean a
(12:30):
absolute thing, and so, um, youknow it, it doesn't translate
over into the construction world, and so I really, you know, I
felt like I was starting fromscratch.
Um, even though new grad, youknow, five-year degree from the
U of A, I was starting fromscratch Five-year degree.
Did you guys hear thatArchitecture Is engineering the
same?
Do you know?
I think it's four years.
Okay, wow, what's the extrayear for?
(12:52):
You don't know either.
No, I do.
There's a lot of informationthough, a lot of studios and
stuff.
Oh, my gosh, gosh.
Well, you know.
Okay, let's talk about yourvery and please be as private or
as open as you want to be here.
But you know, navigating,walking into an opportunity that
(13:14):
you had with SSI.
You got your magic opportunitythat you wanted.
It wasn't just something thatone in the GC world bringing one
up from the ground up.
It takes a decade, but beingable to navigate into that
opportunity.
I'd love to hear a little bitabout that and what SSI has been
(13:35):
for.
40, 50?
Started in 1969.
Well, 52 years, my mom's 52.
So, yeah, tell us a littleabout that.
You betcha, 52 years, that's mymom, my mom's 52.
So, um, yeah, tell us a little.
Yeah, you betcha, um.
So you know, after I left picket, the reason I left picket was,
um, that I found out that mywife was pregnant and it was
important for me for her to stayat home.
You know, I was like, okay,that's, that's what I want to
(13:57):
make happen, I want to find away to do it and, um, just on my
income it was just wasn'tenough.
So so I had an opportunity atanother GC and I took it.
And that was what kind of gotus to the point where I'm like,
okay, we can, we can do this.
And so, you know, I worked atother GCs and saw things that I
liked, saw things that I didn'tlike, and just, you know, I
(14:18):
agree with every business, youknow, and you can't really
change that until you get to thepoint where you're like, okay,
I'll run this business myself,yep, then I can make those
changes.
And so it was honestly all justluck of the draw, right place,
right time, this whole SSI thing, and through a mutual
connection to Leo, the formerowner of SSI, who is 80, I
(14:40):
believe he's 85 this year, thinkthe world of him.
I still talk to him all thetime.
He still comes up for lunchevery once in a while.
We chat and just catch up.
He's a really, really genuineguy.
Mutual connection with him, youknow he was, he was trying to
get out of the company, justsell it just because he was
tired of it.
Because, um, and if you don'tknow, this ssi started in fort
(15:00):
smith years and years ago um,and so I back in 69.
It's still like a year later,year or two later, they opened
up this office up here northwestarkansas, just as a branch
office, um, satellite, yeah,just satellite office.
You know, there's a lot of workup here.
So he just just brought asatellite office up there.
There's not a lot of work uphere.
I don't know what y'all think.
Stay away, stay away.
(15:23):
Anyway, in the 80s I think itwas in 84, he actually
incorporated this office towhere it was its own standalone
legal entity.
Okay, he just happened to ownthis one and the Fort Smith one.
I don't know if it was taxreasons or whatever it was
behind that, but I'm glad he did, because I wouldn't be here if
he didn't, and so so up, I mean,from 84 on, it was its own
(15:43):
standalone company and peoplealways think that, you know, it
was just a branch office.
But no, it was its own deal,own separate contractor's
license and everything, wow.
And so anyway, fast forward to,you know, 23,.
I had a mutual connection withhim and he wanted to stay at
(16:03):
that Fort Smith office Leo didand work down there, but he just
wanted to get rid of theNorthwest Arkansas office.
And so we talked money, wetalked you know what it would
look like on paper, things likethat and he initially said, ok,
let's, how about you buy in 20percent for 100 bucks?
And I was like, wow, okay, youknow, that's more of just a
gesture, a gift than anything,in that.
You know that, right, there iswhat really just said okay, this
guy's genuine, he means what hesays, he wants, you know, he
(16:26):
wants this thing to go into goodhands.
And again, we talked severaltimes before we, what a good
point.
And so, yeah, for a hundreddollars I bought 20 of the
company and was a, you know,shareholder in the company at
that point.
And, um, then it kind of gave meskin in the game, you know, it
gave me a lot of motive to realmindset switch.
And it really does.
It's crazy, you know, a hundreddollar bill slid across the
(16:46):
table but it's like, okay, thisis now my baby, you know, I
gotta, I gotta tend to thisthing, you know.
And so it does, your mindset uh, shifts a little bit.
And then, so you know, it was,that was in january of 23, I
guess.
And then, um, obviously, justyou know, bought the company out
throughout the year and got gotto the point where, you know,
(17:06):
uh, officially made the purchaseof the remainder of the shares
that he had.
And then, um, how was thatfeeling when it actually
happened?
I know it's getting to thepoint I've never been more
scared in my life.
But that day after that, Ithink I slept like a baby for a
solid day.
It was like, okay, I canbreathe.
But then it was like, okay,training wheels are off, yeah,
(17:28):
let's go, she's all yours, let'sgo.
And so that was.
You know, I had like a day,maybe two days.
It was like, okay, this is done, I can breathe.
And then it was like, okay,we're gonna go.
You know we can't stop, we'regonna hit the ground running.
And so ever since then, that'swhat I feel like it's been.
It's just been constant.
You know, just hit the groundrunning, just, uh, trying to
gain traction a little bit.
Because, um, not nothingnegative against ssi formally at
(17:53):
all, um, but in northwestArkansas for the past 15, 20
years or so, there had been.
A lot of people said that theywere just, they thought SSI shut
down, it was very minimal, theydidn't know that it was really
a thing anymore, maybe a coupleprojects here and there.
And you know, I look at thatand I'm like, okay, you know,
there could have been severalthings.
And again, I have been severalthings and again I don't know
(18:18):
most of the backstory on it.
But, um, uh, it's northwestarkansas.
Yeah, I mean, you know,especially over the last 50,
exactly years exactly, and we'vein this office, has done a ton
of stuff.
Uh, there's a building justright up the road here, harvey
pediatric.
It's a big, yeah, a big,pediatric center there, and
marlon blackwell shout out tohim on this one.
He's a fantastic architect, hewas the architect of record on
that and it's a stunningbuilding.
Well, our office built that and, uh, people don't realize that
(18:40):
and, uh, you know, I kind ofwant to revamp that history a
little bit.
You show some cool stuff, solet's, let's show that.
You know, let's showcase that,yeah, and so that's kind of been
my goal as of late is, uh, totry to broadcast what we, you
know what was done in the past,what we can do now, and here's,
here's why we can do it well,man.
So obviously, with buying into acompany like you have, man,
(19:04):
talk about some of thoseprocesses that was non-efficient
, like, oh my god, you guys arestill doing it this way, not to
shed any bad limelightwhatsoever, but just to open up
maybe that audience guy sittingout there going I ain't changing
these young pups, but he'slistening for a reason, you know
(19:27):
what I mean.
Maybe how you've navigated someof that change because I'm
assuming you still have someprevious employees, exactly so
they're used to these systemshow you're navigating that
change, because, from myexperience, is extremely
difficult.
Once you embody some cultureand embody processes or lack
(19:48):
thereof, and then trying tochange everybody, man, you start
seeing the shift and peoplestart just, you know, dropping
like flies.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I think the two biggest thingsthat I've done that were
curveballs to some of theemployees, but after doing them
they're like, oh, this makesmore sense.
Two things One formerly nobodyhad a credit card in the company
(20:12):
.
There were no credit cards out.
So if you needed to run thelows to, you know, get a drill
bit, you couldn't do it.
Yeah, you're the JC, you're thecatch all.
Exactly.
You know you have to call theoffice.
Hey, I need the drill bit.
Well, you know, either use yourpersonal card, bring in a
receipt and get a reimbursement,or whatever the case may be.
Um and so that that was thefirst one.
And uh, you know, leo the, theformer owner, you know, I don't.
(20:36):
I don't know what the mindsetwas there.
I think it was more trying tocontrol costs with, with not
giving credit cards, but I'veactually found that spending
stay the same, like we're notspending money.
You thought it was.
If you need to go to Lowe's,you just it's convenient, you
have credit cards, swipe it,you're good to go, just keep
track of your receipts.
And then the receipts.
That's the next thing that Ichanged too.
So it's kind of mind-blowing.
(20:57):
This office still used carbonpaper, and if you don't know
what carbon paper is, they usedcarbon paper for all their
purchase orders, and so Icompletely understand the
thought process of what theywere doing.
I really do, but I don't knowif you've ever priced carbon
paper.
It's unbelievably expensive.
You never even thought about it.
(21:17):
You can't really get it, and sowe have cases and this stuff at
the office, and because theybuy it in bulk, and I'm looking
at that like they spent so muchmoney on carbon paper.
So that you know, you can havea purchase order here, write it
and then you can have a copy ofit over here.
Well, what I've asked all of myemployees to do is, if you go to
the gas station to get fuel,you're going to get a receipt.
(21:38):
Well, there's an app calledAdobe Scan.
There you go and it's a freeapp.
You literally take a picture ofit, it converts it to a PDF and
you email it to our accountant.
Bingo, it's as simple as thatand you can throw the receipt
away.
I don't care.
Right, we all have that system.
But I need to shed some lightthere.
We're actually going throughkind of the same, not really the
(21:59):
transition.
Ours was here's a credit card,just get what you need.
And then spending did get alittle wonky because there
wasn't as much tracking, and sonow we've gone to a PO system
projects, but it's not really itis.
It was an approval system andwe were a lot more stricter on
it because it was so wide band,but now we've got it under
control.
If somebody needs something andthey know the material, I'll say
(22:21):
hey, just grabbing this,throwing it on the Amex or
whatever case it may be, get anapproval.
Yep Good, they know the invoiceis coming or the receipts
coming so they can track it.
But it's so important guys, ifyou're not sitting in that
ownership role, important guys,if you're not sitting in that
ownership role.
I know receipts you get houndedon all the time.
But the faster the estimators,the production managers, the
(22:44):
president, everybody up top cansee live time tracking to be
able to make decisions, to maybebenefit your position, that
you're sitting in, if they canactually see live black and
white what's going on.
So, and it starts with makingsure all your receipts are
turned in or making sure thatemail oh man, I forgot on a
tuesday.
And then you got sally in theregoing.
(23:05):
Well, who got fuel on a tuesday?
I can you call someone you knowit's like yes, ma'am, you've
got to, because you understandyou're the one asking miss sally
to make sure she reports whodoesn't?
It's just frustrating.
But I was just letting you guysknow out there, man, that the
labor tracking and the costtracking know your cost.
(23:30):
Um, I just wanted to highlightthat real quick.
But man, that's crazy.
Not even nobody, not a singlesoul.
I had a credit card, okay, um,but it was one of those deals
where, you know, even if I hadto go to lowe's, I would have to
call and say, hey, you know,I'm victory lowe's this gave 20
or whatever it is.
Uh-huh, I have to go buy this.
Well, do we really need it?
(23:50):
Well, yeah, we do.
You know, when you found thejob.
So, um, but you know, again,there's.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that, I think there's
just a more efficient way ofdoing it.
And what I've told the guys islike, you know, you know, like
my superintendents, they aretasked with getting the job done
.
If it's going to cost 20 bucksto get the job done, get the job
done.
If it's going to cost 20,000,let's talk about it.
(24:12):
You know, let's, let's chatabout that for a little bit.
But, uh, you know, I'm notgoing to sit there and bark at,
you know, 20, 50 if it's, ifit's going to help push the job,
100, because in today's world,with supply chain issues, all
this kind of stuff, uh, ournumber one goal is, you know,
customer satisfaction.
It's, you know, profitability.
Profitability comes, butcustomer satisfaction is how you
(24:33):
get the repeat business.
So if we can show our clientsthat we are really trying to
push, then that's the number onegoal.
And if it costs $20, it costs$20.
It's just so different from yourside of the table on the GC
perspective than it is.
You know, don't get me wrong,we had talked a little
beforehand.
How you know, I say here on thechannel, all the time go on or
(24:56):
negotiate it, if you can bypassthe general talking to my dirt
guys.
But you know, anybody that'shelping build that, building,
having that relationship.
And I wrote that down becauseisn't it funny?
I talk about it every singleepisode, isn't that funny?
You had a relationship with aguy.
That a guy had a relationshipwith just at a divine moment of
(25:18):
time and said, hey, I reallywant that, oh really.
And then here you are.
It's insane.
It's it's treating Number oneif you're in a customer
relationship, yes, there's badcustomers out there, but
treating that customer with themindset of, oh, they've got
another project coming.
I better not just hit a homeron this one.
(25:38):
You know what I mean.
Okay, if we hit a double, oh,we barely got the first base.
We thought we were going to hita double.
It all comes, but they've gotanother one coming and to get.
That's how we look at you guys.
But at the same time, you knowit's such an awkward
conversation because I don'thave to view it like that.
You know what I mean.
(25:58):
There's always don't I do, butnot to the retrospective level
of, pardon me, what you guyshave to, man and um, blue collar
performance marketing.
These guys are behind thescenes on the cyclone side,
helping the YouTube channel,helping our social media
presence, touching our website,doing some retractions,
(26:23):
additions and really giving methat full package strategy.
If you guys are looking forsomebody or have questions about
who I'm going to ask questionsto, it's Blue Collar Performance
Marketing.
You can get it atbcperformancemarketingcom,
backslash BCcbpodcast.
They're going to give you anentire complimentary on them
overview of your website, yourmarketing strategy and campaign
(26:45):
that you've got going on rightnow.
Have a discovery call with them.
Find out some of your painpoints and what maybe you would
like to see results from.
So check them out, guys over atbcperformancemarketingcom.
Sorry, trent, where were we?
Bubba?
That's where I was just talkingabout man.
(27:06):
You've navigated every singleposition on your way up this GC
climb, obviously working in thebusiness.
We were just talking aboutjumping in a skid, steer a dozer
and spending eight, 10 hours.
But where did you find yourstrengths and weaknesses?
As you're I mean being at thetop I've got some weaknesses
(27:30):
that I just wish I didn't have.
You know what I mean, but I do.
And you navigated each andevery role, maybe your favorite
position, maybe your leastposition and here you are now.
You know yeah, you bet yeah.
So I started off workingessentially as a superintendent,
assistant superintendent, youknow, just really just cutting
my teeth in the commercial world, and I absolutely fell in love
(27:54):
working, and so this is kind ofthe beauty of construction Every
position is a little different.
It's like as a superintendent,you're focused on one project.
Typically, maybe you have aside little project on the side
and you're trying to knock outas well, but your main focus is
one project and that says a lot.
Now you can really channel yourfocus into that thing and know
(28:14):
every detail about that job.
And that's really what drew meto being a superintendent.
And you know I loved it becauseyou were involved with the subs
every day.
You got to play on equipment.
Occasionally we're on a GC side, you know.
Typically we sub all that out,but you know, every once in a
while you can play on someequipment, which is always fun,
(28:34):
and so I really fell in lovewith that.
And then it was, I guess about ayear and a half or so later I
was brought into the office tohelp with some estimating that
they were doing, but also someproject management, specifically
that school, that where weactually met on that Prairie
Grove Middle School there, andso I was brought in as a PM on
(28:54):
that, but then kind of anon-site project manager as well,
as it needs further intoprogression there.
And so, bouncing from positionto position, I feel like project
management is kind of where Ihad.
My aha moment is where I callit like everything kind of
clicked, like what I was doingand because in the field, you
(29:15):
know, I knew, I knew what my jobwas, but I didn't always know
what the project manager wasdoing behind the scenes, right,
and then so, um, as Itransitioned more into that
project manager role, I'm like,oh, this, this might be why he
couldn't answer the phone 20times today, you know.
And so, uh, it kind of it wasmy aha moment and that's really.
The other folks fell more inlove with construction.
I absolutely loved it and um,and that was actually at
(29:39):
commerce construction where umcat was really really they're
fantastic, yeah, they're awesome, awesome company.
Um, that's kind of where I waslike, okay, training wheels are
off in this role.
Um, I was kind of doing my ownthing, right, and the way they
operate.
There is a business model thatI really do enjoy and I would
love to have our office kind ofmimic that, as a project manager
(30:02):
, you take the estimate, youknow, you meet with the client.
You start out with what theywant.
You estimate the job.
You know, once the contract'sexecuted if it goes that far
hopefully it does then youactually manage the project and
the books after that.
And I think that some companiesdon't do that.
Where they have a full-timeestimator, there's nothing wrong
with that whatsoever.
(30:22):
But I think the beauty ofmanaging a project that you
estimated, you know what money'sin there, you know where it's
at and you know if you get to apoint on the job where you have
to rob Peter to pay Paul, so tospeak, within the budget.
You know where you've got fluff, where you're going to be, you
know you can wiggle on incertain areas and that makes it
so much easier instead of going.
(30:43):
Oh, you know, let me call theestimator.
What, what's this?
What's this here?
You know what's this cost code.
You know what it is Cause y'alldid it.
Now it's not right.
Well, that's your fault, youcan't blame these.
There ain't no hiding.
Exactly so keeps everybodyhonest, makes it more efficient.
I really liked that.
And so at Commerce, that's kindof where everything just
(31:05):
clicked and I truly fell in lovewith projects that we had
obviously multiple.
That one time I got fairly goodat juggling.
You know multiple projects andit was awesome.
That's something I stillnavigate and struggle with today
is juggling.
You know all the different hats, but yeah, that's kind of where
that's probably my favoriterole was more project management
(31:27):
.
And you know Nick Peters, whowas on the podcast, who we
talked to quite a bit, andthat's actually because I
watched that podcast.
I'm going to try to develop abusiness relationship with him
and his team now so that youknow, thank you for that.
That was an awesome podcastwe're talking.
You know he always says work onthe business, not for it, and
(31:48):
that's what I'm trying to do nowand eventually I want to get to
a point where the business isjust doing its own thing, to
where I can run some projects.
But right now we're at thatpoint where it's.
You know I've got to developthe entire corporation.
Let these guys handle that andtry to take it on man.
Developing that team andstrategy is so hard.
That is a very unique businessmodel for sure, but at the same
(32:11):
time we all navigate it a littledifferently to get to the same
result that we feel isbeneficial and it's all shaped
around experience.
I think you know what I mean.
You know, in the short tenurethat I've had going on here, I
definitely move from scarredexperience of things going bad
(32:32):
and I think a lot of timescompanies start building braces
around those scars andnecessarily shouldn't be as deep
of a scar as it should be.
You know what I mean.
But we have a full-timeestimator.
It's definitely that's the kindof that blurred line where that
would be extremely difficultfor a sub to do.
(32:52):
But in the GC model I could see, oh my God, super benefits with
that.
Now you got to have a PMwilling to stand on his own and
really own it and I was talkingto you mentioned that earlier.
Man is when that mindsetswitched and it's just a $100
bill going across the table atthat time, but it was like
(33:14):
instant.
I know that's what you'retalking about.
I woke up that Monday with thismini excellent back of my truck
one day and I went oh my God,it's all me.
Yeah, this is it, it's your job, and so, anyways, have you had
to struggle with that gettingfolks to buy into that team and
maybe not and what have you doneto correct especially some
(33:37):
folks that have been there 10,20 years?
I know they've been around along time.
Um, and you know you've got newage coming in, trying to set new
age efficiencies, and how haveyou been navigating that?
A little bit, it's.
It's not been as bad as I wasthinking.
It probably would be Awesome.
Um, it's been really, reallygood.
Um, we had a solid team.
Um, anything I need done,obviously they're going to do it
(33:58):
and you know, they know thatwhatever they need, I'm going to
try my best to get it done.
Um, so we've got a really solidteam and, um, everybody there
is fantastic and I think, um, sowe've got I mean, we've got one
guy, one of our superintendentshas been there in excess of 30
years now and he's one of thebest superintendents in
northwest Arkansas.
(34:19):
As far as I'm concerned, he's arock star and so, yeah, it's
been good.
The team we've got is solid andit was a massive blessing to be
able to keep that.
Yeah, obviously, I bought thecompany, but also I inherited
the employees, and sometimesthat sounds scary, but it's like
these people are rock stars,you know they really work, and
so I just need a little support.
(34:39):
Yeah, exactly, they just neededsomebody there to, and I'm you
know I might not be that person100%, but they just needed
someone there to.
You know, just keep them movingin the right direction, and so,
but, yeah, it's, I've got asolid team, and so I don't know
if I really answered yourquestion.
No, no, no, you absolutely did.
I mean, you've got this.
It's really cool.
(35:07):
It sounds like your 30-year-oldsuperintendent, or ladies in the
office that have been there along time, are excited for this
change, and I have found withinmyself and my company as well my
guy is that a lot of times,they're just looking and waiting
for the leader to do somethingabout it.
A lot of times, they're justlooking and waiting for the
leader to do something about it,and a lot of times for me, it
took me a few years to go andcatch myself and go why is this
going like this?
Oh, that's your problem.
Stupid Like, do something aboutit, don't just expect a
(35:29):
different result.
And yes, it comes with changeand accountability, but to have
folks like that put in alifetime at a company, of course
I think, as long as I thinkthat's a testament to you is
where I was going with this.
Is that being the right-mindedleader to go?
Oh, these guys know their jobs.
(35:50):
I just need to be the supportsystem in the tree right now
until I can figure out where thesupport roles are needed to be
able to plug those holes.
But every single day, I couldn'timagine being a CGC dude.
We already smiled and laughedabout that earlier.
But man, you guys are thecatch-all Us subcontractors.
(36:10):
We're not very easy to dealwith.
We're always.
We want our money right now andI'm done with 52% of the job,
but I want 100%.
Come on, gc, you screwed it up.
It's always your fault.
And man, having 20 subs perproject, I couldn't even imagine
that.
But thank God for goodsuperintendents, thank God for
good project managers, before itgets up there.
(36:32):
But where are you seeing ssiheading man?
I want to hear the next, yeah,one to three year hopeful goal
or maybe just a projection ofwhere you think you're heading?
Yeah, you bet.
So whenever I, when I bought ssi, I had to sit down and go okay,
where do I want this to go?
You know, obviously you gottahave a business plan.
And I started thinking youthink that's obvious, but
(36:54):
there's a lot of blue collarguys out there like me yeah, we,
I did not have a plan orstrategy until like two years
ago and my plan is hand writtenand you know, it's just
something there's.
There's nothing official, justvery simple.
Um, but I had to sit there andthink, okay, do I want to be
bald woman, shell or nam holtzor some of these massive gcs
(37:15):
which I think?
I think namholz is now abillion-dollar company, they're
huge which you know they justbought.
You know a ton of other smallersubcontractors out and so
they're growing their you knowthe repertoire massively and I'm
like do I want to be that?
And then my first thought wasabsolutely not.
No, there's no way in the worldI want to do that and I still
stick by that.
You no, there's no way in theworld I want to do that and I
(37:37):
still stick by that.
You know I don't want to be thebiggest contractor in Northwest
Arkansas.
You know you start having 20,30, 40 employees on staff.
That's more to manage, that'smore headache.
To an extent, you know you canstill have rock solid employees,
but it's.
You know you got to juggle.
You know John's vacation timeover here Well, you know this
person.
You got to juggle so much moreand I don't want any part of
(37:57):
that.
And but what I do want to do isshow people that you know we can
absolutely handle largerprojects with the crew that
we've got, because we have, youknow, different, you know
operating procedures in placethat try that we at least try to
abide by to, to make us moreefficient, because efficiency is
key in this industry, and youknow.
(38:23):
So, with all that said, I don'twant to be the biggest, but I
want to have that reputationwhere it's like okay, call SSI,
they'll, you know they'll helpyou out, whatever the case may
be.
And I remember one time I wasat Commerce Construction and we
were working there and somebodycame up and asked about a
project and one of the owner'scomments was well, we're booked
out.
You know, year, year and a halfor so and they're like well, we
can wait.
I want to get to that point,that's a plus.
(38:44):
Okay, we can wait.
You know that that project ownercan wait a little bit to start
the job until that GC is done,because they want to use that GC
.
Well, and it's not just from amoney perspective.
The money is, yes, for a lot ofthese clientele, customer base,
money's their number oneconcern, and it's not
necessarily how much it is, it'sjust how long can I hold on to
(39:07):
the money, or whatever the casemay be.
But there's a whole differentcustomer base that is way more
concerned with deadline, timeand schedule than they are.
Cost Now, cost is cost to themand they understand that as long
as they ain't getting theirhead took off.
These guys over here when theysay August 20th, we're done on
August 20th, we got to be doneon August 20th, so no schedule
(39:31):
delays.
And so those are therelationships that are hard to
navigate when you're I can onlyimagine for a GC.
But just for my sake is, I'm anunderground contractor in all
capacities.
If we hit unsuitable soils andI didn't even warn you that this
may be a thing hey, hold upbefore you ship eight or nine
(40:00):
semis out here and put it downin a mud hole.
You know it's anyways don'tquite know where I was going
with that fellows, but, um, I'mnumber one.
I'm proud of you, dude.
I wanted to share that.
I appreciate that.
I uh, I think it's very noble,I think it's yeah, passion has
to be there.
But to walk into a GC role andunderstand that it's not about
(40:26):
let's be on every corner andmake no money, but to model
around a company that commercehas an amazing reputation in the
subcontractor world as well, tohave that reputation and a
clientele reputation, becausethat client's sitting there
going.
Well, we'll wait, because Iknow there's going to be way
less unexpected crap that I'vegot to deal with during my time
(40:48):
and deadline and my project willget done.
When I said it was going to getdone because you guys did six
years ago, you did a strip mall,whatever the case may be, you
know, and it's you're right, assoon as you do get ahold of
those clients, it's reoccurring.
You've got to be thinking aboutthat next project and how this
one is going the entire time,because if not, you're losing
your shot.
You know, and, man, just, Iencourage you for sure, cause I
(41:12):
could only imagine some of yourdays in phone calls.
It's a roller coaster for sure.
You know it doesn't stop.
And lately the email has beenwhat really kills me.
I get a ton of emails a day.
But yeah, no, absolutely, andthat's the thing you know.
Right now in Northwest Arkansasthere is so much going on, but
(41:33):
there's also so many differentGCs.
Much going on, but there's alsoso many different GCs and
that's like you know the, therepeat business.
You know your reputation.
That's make or break.
You know cause.
A lot of times it is aboutmoney, like you said.
But um, you know there's somany different people that are
coming in here as out of townGCs opening up branch offices
here, and they're just hungryfor it.
(41:55):
They're going througheverything they can just to get
some of this work.
And some of these smaller localguys that have been here for
forever that you know, maybeless known, they're getting
weeded out really quickly andit's kind of eye-opening really.
So it's like you have to revampyour business model around that
too.
And, dude, it's so funny You'reseeing that in the GC world
because if you're on any type ofsocial media, you know somebody
(42:19):
everybody that I'm talking toright now that has gone and
bought a skid steer and a duallyin a truck.
You know what I mean.
Like every Tom, dick and Harryis a guy, is a dirt guy now.
And it's like, thank God inArkansas, where you know we have
contractor's licenses, and butour neighboring States, you know
, oklahoma, missouri, it's awild, wild West.
You know what I mean.
I couldn't imagine over there.
(42:40):
But thank God we have thatprotection of being licensed
contractors.
But and fighting over anythingthat that's hole filler, oh my
gosh dude.
But then I was just on thephone yesterday, um crew looking
for work.
Another company can't makepayroll and not judging, let me
tell you it's freaking hardmaking payroll.
(43:02):
You entrepreneurs out there itusually hits like here's payroll
and nobody paid.
Like they said they were goingto what do you mean?
Like that was my payroll thisweek.
Like we paid all our, like whatdo we?
So yeah, I'm telling you, I,yeah, I completely, completely
yeah, and that's it's.
It's that way on the gc world.
(43:23):
So you know, don't think anydifferently there.
It's um, we've got, we've gotreceivables that are way past
120 days.
Right, it's like, and you knowthat's that's where my job gets
really hard, because you builtthat next one, oh yeah, and it's
like you know you really wantto treat that client well, but
it's's like, okay, well, youknow here's, you know, in some
cases it could be half a million, some some cases it could be a
(43:43):
million dollars that we'rewaiting on.
I'm like, well, where's this at?
You know where we're looking at.
I gets to a point where wereally try to take care of sub,
but, um, it's hard, it's hard.
This year alone, um, we've seenmore, you know, extended pay
(44:06):
terms than I ever have, and Idon't know why.
I'm so glad to hear you saythat because, man, it was funny,
after covid, like it was, youalways had day 75, they're going
to start hollering at you.
Hey, we've really got to getsome attention to this.
Yep, get you written updatehere's when it's coming.
(44:26):
That's about all it was AfterCOVID and all the supply chain
went like it did, that 75 became45 and that 90 became 60.
Yeah, and that 90 is where theyshut you off, but 60, now you
smoke bold.
Well, when you adjust that over, you know, last year was tough,
dude.
The last two years was brutal,but last year, specifically 24,
(44:49):
I'll never forget the rest of mylife just from the fading of
COVID and still dealing withhyperinflation and hypercost
that people don't understand.
That's not coming down yet.
Got a 5% increase on all rockand all concrete heading into
the year, like why.
You know what I mean.
Anyways, that's a totallydifferent subject matter for
(45:09):
today.
But no, I hope to encourage afew guys that are sitting out
there in the same position thatyou are.
Hopefully they're sitting inthat PM role or that super role
going man, I'd really like tofreaking do this and do it the
way I want to do it andencourage them.
It can be done.
He's sitting here.
Do right by people so that whenthat relationship does strike
(45:39):
up, you're ready to strike onthat opportunity and be able to
come to the table with a goodreputation and all the sponge
knowledge.
It's not like you just woke upand were a CEO the next day.
My guy, it's tough, isn't it?
It still is.
It still is.
Working in the business is fun.
Working on the business most ofthe time sucks and it's the
hard nitty gritty and in myexperience, the first two to
five years, dude, I want to doevery little thing myself
(46:01):
because I was so scared of itand instead of delegating.
Hey, cpa, you hand a payroll.
Hey, fractional HR, you handlethis and figure out where I'm at
and let me go produce.
And it took me a long time tofigure that out, dude, it really
did.
But um, that's my biggeststruggle, I think, too, is
delegating.
(46:21):
You know, I want to have a handin everything.
So welcome to being a trueentrepreneur, bud, because we
all struggle with it and I think.
But that's the problem withscale, that's the problem with
scaling, like until you get outof your head what you want to do
on paper that people can readand follow it and follow a
process because of what you knowyour head on paper.
(46:43):
You know what I mean.
It took me until year seven andsome people don't ever find it
out.
I know companies that I'mliterally doing work for right
now that are 45 year companiesand my jaw drops to the ground
when they call me and ask someof the questions.
They do.
I'm like, guys, what do youmean?
This or this?
Like you're at like mindblowing stuff, companies around
(47:06):
here that would floor you, butyou know what you got to deal
with.
So I got one more question.
I've been kind of rambling here,guys.
I apologize, but I've reallyenjoyed our conversation.
Dude's been insightful for me.
Dude, honestly, more than you'dprobably realize, um, but that
blue collar guy, lady mansitting out there who's just
(47:27):
sick and tired of being stuck inthe mud.
I ask it on every episode andyou've probably prepared for
this question if you've listenedto a few.
But it can be mental, physical,emotional.
We've all been there and youare the epitome of the person
I'm trying to talk to from.
You were at this level and yousaid screw this, I'm going here,
(47:48):
this is how I'm doing it.
Yep, give us a takeaway forthat blue collar just sitting
there stuck in the mud, but justdo it, just do it.
Um, so being stuck in the mud is, um, it is, it's.
It's a situation where it'slike, I mean, you just don't
(48:09):
know what to do.
You know you have no idea whereto go, what you're doing, all
that kind of stuff.
Um, the biggest thing that I doand I do this every day is I
take time.
I take, you know, five, 10minutes, whatever it is.
Just sit back and just think,um, shut your phone off, shut
your TV off, whatever the caseis.
Just sit there and think, andyou know those little micro
thoughts that I have can compileyou know X amount of days,
(48:31):
weeks, months, whatever it is,um to an idea.
You just try to develop thatidea and just do it.
You know, just execute,whatever it takes, just get it
done.
And yeah, being stuck in the mudis and I've been there.
You know I was burnt out onworking and just didn't like
what I was doing, all that kindof stuff, and that just made a
change.
Just do it, just get out there.
(48:53):
It's really that easy dude itis.
Just get out there.
It's really that easy dude itis.
But once you do it, you've gotto keep doing it.
That's the hard.
That's the hard part, likemaking the decision most people
won't even do, jumping offentrepreneurial whatever, and a
lot of them don't need to.
Just to be fair, a lot of yearsme.
But at the same time, as longas you make the jump, that's's
(49:16):
step one.
But then reoccurring, doingwhatever you're doing month
after month after month andtrying to grow it a little bit,
is probably one of the mostdifficult things I've ever done
in my entire life.
I agree.
But I will say the one thingyou know on to that point it is
one of the most difficult thingsthat you'll ever do.
It's mind blowing how manypeople are in your corner.
It is unbelievably mind blowing.
(49:38):
I mean people that I'd nevereven thought would be my banker,
one of my best.
You know that's an awesomerelationship.
They're in your corner, they'refighting for you.
You know these people arerooting for you and people come
out of the woodworks to root foryou and that you know that's.
That's a game changer.
I mean, it makes it totallyworth it.
Dude.
I literally I was on to wrap itup here it's the emails that I
(50:03):
get from audience members.
It's the uh DM on TikTok,instagram.
Just a short hey, man, I reallyappreciate you and all the
things that you're putting outthere.
It's not easy putting yourselfout there in the marketing world
and for the internet to bashyou and everything else, but
it's the people that you trulyhelp along the freaking way.
(50:24):
Dude, it is, you're right, it'sso rewarding, I think.
Fulfilling, I think would bethe word yeah, and but no
testament to you.
I hope you guys have absolutelyloved today's episode.
I think we have to have youback.
I think we're going to have tohave you back and probably a few
(50:45):
questions are going to getasked from this episode.
I have a feeling just becauseyou're such a unique I mean
literally how you navigated itis very unique and I'm hoping it
encourages a guy or two outthere.
And they've got some questions.
So where can they find you?
Linkedin?
I know you're on LinkedIn.
Yeah, linkedin.
I have a Facebook.
I have an Instagram.
I don't get on very much as faras the company pages go.
(51:07):
Yeah, linkedin, facebook,instagram.
I think our businessdevelopment manager is also
doing TikTok, oh, I think.
Okay, I've never had a TikTokin my life and I think she is
starting to do those.
So be on the lookout for thatas well.
So LinkedIn sounds like a goodspot to shoot Mr Hanna a DM and
(51:28):
get to know him and his story.
Good connections, build thoserelationships, guys.
Till next time.
Guys, we're coming at you every5 am on Wednesdays, every
single week.
Catch it on all your podcaststreaming platforms, but you can
watch totally for free if youdon't have a subscription, or
listen for free straight fromthe website at
bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
(51:50):
Trent.
Thank you again.
Seriously, it was moreinsightful than you probably
realized, but I reallyappreciate you and I hope it
encourages somebody today.
Until next time.
You guys be safe.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like.
Share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
(52:11):
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
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