June 11, 2025 • 63 mins
Ever felt trapped in the endless cycle of gathering more work than you can handle, scrambling to complete it, then desperately seeking more jobs to stay afloat? Sy Kirby calls this the "hamster wheel of death" for blue collar entrepreneurs—and it's exactly where he found himself before implementing proper systems and processes at Sy-Con.
In this revealing conversation with Shelena Taylor, owner of 4G Enterprises and Sy-Con's fractional project manager, we pull back the curtain on what truly happens when a disorganized construction company transforms through systematic project management. The journey isn't pretty or comfortable, but the results are game-changing.
"People have to know what they need to do, what they're required to do, what's expected of them, in order for you to hold them accountable," Shelena explains, highlighting how job descriptions and standard operating procedures create the foundation for everything else. We explore how simple tools like QR codes for equipment inspections and digital forms for field reports can dramatically shift responsibility from the owner to the team, creating accountability without micromanagement.
We dive deep into the practical aspects of implementing project management software like Buildertrend and monday.com, discussing what works specifically for blue collar businesses where team members aren't sitting behind desks. You'll hear honest admissions about the emotional challenges of this journey—the vulnerability, the transparency, and the occasional resistance from team members who aren't ready to change.
The most powerful takeaway? As Shelena puts it, "If you are willing to change, you are not going to stay stuck." Whether you're the person holding the shovel on day one or the burnt-out project manager drowning in responsibilities, this conversation offers a roadmap to transform your approach to blue collar business.
Ready to break free from the cycle that's keeping your business dependent on you? Listen now, then connect with us at bluecollarbusinesspodcast.com to share your own journey toward systems that actually work.
Click the link above for a free marketing audit with insights to boost your blue collar business!
PodcastVideos.com
Put your show in front of audiences that care with PodcastVideos.com's wide range of podcasts!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Follow and stay connected:
Website: bluecollarbusinesspodcast.com
YouTube: youtube.com/@BlueCollarBusinessPodcast
Instagram: @bluecollarbusinesspodcast
TikTok: @bluecollarbusinesspod
Facebook: Blue Collar Business Podcast
LinkedIn: Blue Collar Business Podcast
Never miss an update—follow, subscribe, and join the conversation!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
, where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Welcome back, guys, to anotherepisode of the Blue Collar
Business Podcast, sponsored andpresented by podcastvideoscom.
We are in the beautiful I dobelieve they call this the
conference room here in theRogers Arkansas location.
I have a guest that you guyshave all been waiting for.
(00:51):
You've been hearing me preach,talk about systems and processes
and procedures and why they'reimportant, and all the things
that I've been doing behind thescenes at PsyCon, and today
you're going to get to actuallyhear firsthand a little bit
about what we've been doing, butalso some basic implementation
(01:13):
steps that you can start gettingyour guys, your teams, on a
fast track within a projectmanagement system, and I have
been truly waiting to bring someof the insight from and use me
as an example and some of thehorror stories we could probably
(01:34):
get into today when our guestfirst showed up and started
helping.
So today, furthermore, I have MsShalina Taylor, owner of 4G
Enterprises, and a little briefdescription essentially has been
CyCon's active fractionalproject manager for essentially
for the last six months,implementing systems and
(01:57):
processes and SOPs, standardoperating procedures and things
of that nature.
So we're going to talk aboutthat in the blue collar setting
and why that is important foryou guys.
This is not just for thecorporate world.
You have got to implement someof this if you want to succeed,
(02:18):
grow and scale.
So furthermore thank you, msShalina, so much for joining me.
Thank you for having me, ofcourse.
Where do we start today?
Because, literally, Michalinawould, for the first couple of
months, during a researchanalyst's little phase, sunday,
(02:49):
through what you would call nota meeting, but a collective
group of individuals gettingtogether and talking about what
they may or may not get donethat week, you can start.
Let's start number one with alittle bit about you.
But I am so honestly shockedthe power of LinkedIn within
just a year's time and how I'vebeen on there and started
(03:11):
integrating.
But that's where I found you.
Like you, you had justbasically put out an ad for
where you're at, you know, anduh, I found you and thank God we
did, because we havefast-forwarded what I have been
and what Sarah has been beggingto get done for years.
But now I understand the need.
(03:32):
But tell us a little bit aboutyou before we get going too far
here.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Sure, I have spent the last 12 years in commercial
construction on the owner's side, so I had that perspective
Before that.
All of my positions withprevious companies were all
project related, so I've beendoing project reading for a long
(04:00):
time.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Sizable construction project management.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
The last 12 years were, yes, very large projects,
so it just seemed like a naturalprogression to try to start my
own company and help small tomedium-sized businesses with
their project management.
And I tend to gravitate towardblue-collar so I really enjoy
(04:31):
helping the blue-collar industry, so that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Honestly, it's what's needed and I have picked up on
many times from your pastexperience with working with the
blue-collar world owners, fromConcrete or Steel Guys or HVAC
or whatever it may be, toexcavation and utility guys.
We're all disorganized.
(04:57):
We're all completely lostindividuals.
From the organizationstandpoint, we don't know what
is important first, like wedon't even know where to start.
We don't know.
All we're concentrated on isthe next job and trying to get
this job done.
And it's this hamster wheel ofdeath for an entrepreneur of go,
(05:20):
gather as much work as possible, go, do that work, because you
just gathered too much work forwhat you have.
Then you grow a little bit oh,I've got a bit more work, get
over here.
And it's just back and forthand back and forth.
And as you showed up here,literally that was the
representation of the wheel thatI was on and obviously the
audience has watched me progressthrough having a project
(05:42):
manager and backing up and goingoh, this is on my plate now and
it needs to be, because you andthe systems that you have made
so important, and go no, look,you have got to understand.
This is so important If youwant to do what you tried to do
put this in place.
(06:02):
Then we go find the rightcandidates and you let them roll
.
And I'm like, well, that's whatI've been wanting to do this
whole time, but I didn'tunderstand how to get there.
And this is the key, literallythe key and shout out to Mr
Howerton, because I wasn't.
I was serious about it lastyear, like I knew it was a focus
(06:25):
point.
Obviously, july, my projectmanager going and doing his own
thing, was a definite wake-upcall for me and I'm like, man,
why am I failing so hard withyou know, the leadership
principle?
Why is it still all on me?
I have all these people inplace like all tree mess of
people and it was all implodingon me and it was all back on me
(06:51):
every single day, like, did younot ask this person and this
person and this person?
Yeah, but we didn't getanywhere.
So we just came straight to youand I'm like, oh my gosh.
Well, so, as you have got towatch, I literally sat there and
kind of made a decision myselfand I was like, hmm, I kind of
kind of take this role back overand number one understand it.
(07:14):
Number two, probably put myselfin their shoes and see the
disorganization and zerosystematic procedure other than,
oh, we took some pictures andthis is what we did that day.
Like guys, I'm not discouragingyou.
If you're at that level rightthere, that is a great place to
(07:35):
start.
But I'm telling you there's somuch more to it and for years
that's what I thought.
You know, we just document whatwe do and keep on rocking, get
us the next project and it's allthe finite information and
details to make it a whole lotless stressful.
Add a little bit ofaccountability, the right
(07:57):
accountability.
Job descriptions Do we startthere?
Descriptions, let's do we startthere?
I mean, I will talk about justfor a moment and I'm probably
gonna hop on this isn'tsomething you say but the job
descriptions and how vitally.
I can't tell you guys how vitaljob descriptions are, because
(08:22):
you can have a whole mess ofpeople 30 people but if there's
no organization chart and jobdescriptions for what each and
every single person does at thatcompany, I know that sounds
overwhelming, but seriously, andthat's what we've been working
through.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, one of the larger problems that we
discussed early on was the lackof accountability.
So you have to have people haveto know what they need to do,
what they're required to do,what's expected of them, in
(08:59):
order for you to hold themaccountable, and there wasn't
anything like that in placewhenever I first started working
with you guys.
So we're still in the middle ofrolling that out, because
that's a big job of trying todetermine what everybody needs
to be doing and how they need tobe doing it.
(09:19):
So you mentioned SOPs makingsure that we have the processes
in place for each jobdescription.
It's a big job, but it'sbasically that foundation that
you really need so that you canstart building.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It is literally the interweb.
It's the communication method.
I screamed for communication,but they needed a process to
communicate.
They were communicating, butnot everybody can remember
everything all day long.
So, guys, you don't know whatyou don't know.
And while Ms Shalina is talkingabout the size and the weight of
(10:00):
literally writing thesedocuments and making sure
they're in place, it is a big,big task.
Don't put it on your wife's,okay?
Like, literally, sarah would belike for years.
We've got to get this going.
She'd be reading and she'd bestudying and like this is
vitally important.
We've got to get this going.
And here I am Well, this joband that job, and I've got to
(10:22):
get a track.
Oh, here, well, this job andthat job, and I got to get a
track.
Go here and not even remotelytrying to bite into the
information she's trying to giveto me and understand, because I
didn't understand a lot, likeour audience today doesn't
understand the benefit and thecurse of not having it in place.
But it takes a long time to gothrough this process.
(10:46):
It's as fast or as slow as youwant it to be, mr or Mrs
Entrepreneur, but once you startto feel those little winds on
the other side of it and you seeJohnny the backhoe driver
literally driving his backhoeand he's happy and he
understands his job.
And he's happy and heunderstands his job and he's
getting those equipment checksheets in before he starts his
(11:08):
engine.
For you know, this is the smallthings but they don't become
necessarily hassles at thatpoint.
You know, I I screwed up in alot of ways but literally we're
fixing to start our 10th year inbusiness in August.
You guys, as plumbers andelectricians or excavation guys,
you're not job descriptionwriters and I would encourage
(11:32):
you to find somebody like MissShalina, spend the time sitting
here for her to pull theinformation out of in a very
therapeutic way.
And you go throughself-realizations and you go
through self-development and yougo through this vulnerability
(11:53):
and transparency, through thisand you start to realize, just
talking to somebody about this,you're like, oh my God, am I an
idiot?
And you just have these majorshifts.
I'm the bottleneck, literally.
You watched me do this.
I'm like I told Ms Salinas twodays in she's like you need an
operations manager, sir.
(12:13):
And I'm like, yeah, we're notdoing that again.
Yeah, I was so scarred and Iwas vulnerable in that
conversations where I was goingwith that to make sure you
understood like, hey look, it'snot like me saying no, I don't
need that.
I recognize the fact that I do.
I just don't know how toemotionally process dealing with
that right now and I know we'regoing a little off.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It took you six months.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It literally did, and it was three weeks ago.
Guys, I was just talking aboutit on the last episode.
We are hiring for an opsmanager role.
You can check it out on Sycon'sLinkedIn Shameless plug there.
But the beautiful jobdescription that was wrote by
the wonderful Miss Shalina righthere will be there for you to
read and analyze, and I guessthat's the way they get to check
(12:59):
homework on you today and thatrole's there.
We're looking for that persondesperately to empower the team.
It's what's lacking.
How did you know day two that Ineeded an operations manager?
I think that would be a reallygood question for you to answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
You know, I think I knew the day that we met for
coffee.
Okay, before I even started.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Start the discovery intro call okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
But at that that moment, you and sarah were very
open with me, um, and you guysgave me a lot of information in
that outer coffee slot that wehad.
But, um, it was good becausethen I kind of had an idea what
(13:47):
I was getting into as well.
But also, just, you're theowner of the company and your
focus needs to be on businessdevelopment and what I've seen
over the last six months is yourfocus is in 15 different
directions and a lot of it isfield operations, which part of
(14:11):
getting job descriptions inplace and putting some
accountability on your fieldcrew is going to take some of
that pressure off.
But you know, those are justsome of the little hints that
you know I saw along the waythat said that's what you need.
When we first started, I did aSWOT analysis talk about what a
(14:36):
SWOT analysis is.
so that's where you analyze acompany and you determine what
the strengths, the weaknesses,the opportunities and the
threats are.
And then, when you take allthat information and you figure
out how you can kind of buildoff of, how do you capitalize on
(14:56):
those opportunities to minimizeyour weaknesses.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So we did that and that told us a lot about psycon
told me a lot like seeing it onpaper in front of my face.
I couldn't disagree withanything.
And, um, I think the one phasethat I think we kind of skipped
through, but that first threemonths you were like a shadow
(15:23):
and not just with me guys, guyslike with the estimator, and if
there was a project manager, Imean you were filling that kind
of a gap there, but it was meand dealing with me on the
project management side, butalso dealing with me from the
and the hr stuff, making suremichelle up front in the back of
(15:46):
the house is taken care of,which is a whole different beast
in itself.
And and and not only that, itmade, it gave you the time, I do
believe, to understand, becauseI don't I don't think you were
in the blue collar working space, you know, in the last 15 years
, so I also gave you a littleappreciation.
(16:06):
I would hope to.
Oh, they're trying, but theyreally just don't know.
Did you think from January itcan't be that bad walking into
it?
I mean, we were prettytransparent about it, but at the
same time it can't be that bad,can it?
And then you get there.
Was there any shock walking in?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, I think not necessarily shock, because I
don't think you give yourselfenough credit for the things
that you did have organized andworking.
I mean, you did make it to year10.
So I don't think I was shocked.
(16:47):
I think the thing that reallyimpressed me was the dedication
of your team.
Yes, you had guys that just allthey want is to see Saigon, you
know, make it.
So they were just sitting therelike ready for someone to come
(17:09):
in and say, hey, let's try this,let's give you these tools so
that you can do this job alittle more efficiently.
So I wasn't shocked.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
No, Good Well from.
I think that will shine alittle light to maybe somebody
in your position as well thathas the knowledge and has the
direction and maybe can walk inand maybe hopefully inspire
somebody from the upper echelonof the world with the knowledge
(17:44):
level to step down and literallywork laterally along with a,
you know, much smallermid-market, whatever blue collar
skilled trades guy.
Because that's what this show'sabout is to take the white
collar world and literally dumbit down.
Enough for I mean us tounderstand, because that's why a
lot of blue collar guys don'treach directly out, because you
(18:06):
guys don't.
We don't speak the samelanguage, like we don't get all
the fancy words.
It takes us time and if Ididn't go through the last 10
years of experience, I wouldn'thave half a clue what you were
talking about day one.
And but I knew from the thingsthat I was lacking and the
things that I was researchingand the things that you were
saying is exactly what I needed.
And so once we got past thatkind of research and that phase,
(18:31):
you really I got to say youstarted holding me accountable,
and in both of my roles in thatPM slot, because I wouldn't give
it up.
But here we are.
We had a few people along theway that didn't like how this
navigation was going as well,and we both discussed that.
We knew a percentage wasprobably going to jump off the
(18:53):
ship and the percentage thatstayed was exactly.
Honestly, looking back isexactly what needed to happen
and also showed me that I madesome wrong hires, not
necessarily in the wrong people,but in the wrong positions, and
I've also, 30,000 foot big,pictured this like we're dealing
(19:17):
with another backlog issue.
Why are we dealing with anotherbacklog issue?
If we had a salesman, well, themarketing set up with my face
on it, but then I'm handing themoff to a different salesman,
well, that's probably not whatthey.
That's not really cohesive,right?
So I really put two and twotogether there when I could sit
back.
Number one I've had enough timeto analyze something and work on
(19:39):
the business and help navigateme.
Working on the business, asyou're holding me accountable as
the owner of the business,which you probably don't know as
much as you do, but navigating.
That alleviates all of thepressures out of my brain and,
with some of these systems thatthese guys are catching on with,
is buying me back a little bitof time to sit back and
(19:59):
literally analyze myself andanalyze a company and build
strategy and that's the.
I've like thought strategy wassuch a weird word for business.
But it's everything long-termstrategy and short-term strategy
and literally micro strategy toa like the stuff we're doing
with CRM stuff.
I know I'm getting way off thebeaten path here, but give us a
(20:25):
small say.
There's a guy listening todaythat wants this so desperately.
He's been in the same rut for20 years and he doesn't even
know to take the first step.
Where does he start?
What's the basics that he needsto cover for any skilled trades
(20:47):
?
Blue collar working business,documentation of the work
clocking in where?
Where do we need to start?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I honestly think that it is starting like we did with
your company is like you reallyhave to um sit and analyze what
are the gaps?
Um, how's the communication?
Do the teams feel supported?
What's your cash flow lookinglike?
(21:17):
Um, just all of those littlepieces have to be analyzed to
see kind of it's going to.
What it's going to do ishighlight the gaps there and
then, once you have those gaps,then you can figure out like
what, what do you need to fix on?
And in your case, you know youhad, you were taking on the
(21:39):
project management role and youwere taking it on 150 percent,
to the point where you werespending your week going out and
gathering information from theguys in the field, instead of
the guys in the field beingaccountable and giving you the
information.
So that's where you know wewe've found you know I sat in
(22:05):
those monday meetings.
You got me up god awful earlyin the morning to be at a
meeting, um every monday and umI would just sit there and be
like what are we doing?
Like I don't understand this.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So we Neither did my team, though.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, that's the point.
Nobody.
Yeah, they just needed somedirection.
So it was.
That was like a.
Really.
I think that's a good example ofhow we use technology to kind
of help with project management,because I was able to go in and
create just what programs thatyou already have in your office
(22:50):
365 packet.
You know, we used forms and Icreated a Microsoft form that
had questions and there was a QRcode.
The guys in the field couldjust scan the code, answer the
questions.
The questions were like youknow, does this project have any
(23:11):
constraints?
Are there challenges thatyou're encountering that site
needs to be involved in?
Do you need more labor?
What equipment do you need onthis site?
You know, like just, they werebasic questions, but you were
getting that information fromthe guys.
The guys were providing itthrough this form and then it
dumps it into a OneNote sheetand there you have your report
(23:36):
for your Monday morning meeting,and so it's simple, little
things like that.
And because the guys are outthere working, they're in the
field, they're working hard,they're not sitting at a desk
all day, so you have to tailorthis to something that's easy
for them to navigate and itdoesn't feel like a burden.
(23:59):
It feels like a tool.
So that's just like a littleexample of some of the things
that we've been working on toalleviate some of that pressure
on you and hold the guys in thefield a little more accountable.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I think you just blew a couple of guys' minds and
hold the guys in the field alittle more accountable.
You know, I think you just blewa couple of guys' minds because
they probably were sittingthere going wait a minute, that
makes sense.
Why am I showing up on Mondaytelling all these guys what's
happening?
And they show up every week.
These were on these jobs.
There's so many guys sitting inthe same position that may have
a few crews, or three or fouror five crews or whatever it may
(24:39):
be, and are still taking onthat pm role.
I can't tell you.
I can't.
I could probably name three orfour of them, but we just don't
know any different.
And until you say, well, whyhave we not stuck a qr code in
their truck to get thisinformation out of them?
And we're like what do you mean?
(25:00):
And the first time I'll never,freaking, forget it.
I knew it was such a gamechanger in our world.
One of the guys came up to me,a guy that you would never think
that even tried.
The method, you know what Imean, wasn't really set up for
him and he came in there and hegoes.
You know what I mean.
(25:38):
It wasn't really set up for himand he came in there and he
goes hey man, that's really cool.
I didn't know how you can dothat, but that also helps dn
logistically.
Help jim move our pieces of it.
It changed the whole game.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The qr code in a dadgum machine equipment
maintenance checklist and thenthey started asking for more qr
codes for other things.
So we ended up doing yourequipment safety inspection.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And it's fixing to happen more and more.
But it was mind boggling for mewhen you're like, why are you
giving all of them theinformation when you don't have
it?
Half the time they do.
And I'm like, oh my God, thathurt.
And you know, through thisprocess I'll just be 100%
(26:19):
vulnerable and open with youguys, like I try to be, like
it's not super fun, like it'snot definitely the most
vigorating time sitting heregoing over your mistakes, where
you've messed up, you don't know.
(26:40):
But as a business owner you'retaking it so hard.
You're like, how could Ifreaking not know this?
Whether you're five years in,you could be 20 years in sitting
there and going, oh my gosh,you know, you just don't know
what.
You just don't know.
And you've taught me so much inthe first six months in this
(27:04):
process of what we're doing.
But we're just now, like youhad said, rolling this out
Everything we've been working onfor six months and the guys are
a little impatient.
They're ready to get this going, and so am I.
But I think, as a blue collarbusiness owner, we tend to rush
things, we tend to think ofthings very one-laned and
(27:29):
instead of encompassing theentire business picture.
Hell when your first five yearsyou don't even know about 40%
of the business picture.
I'm actually talking about cashflow, interest and of that sort
taxes.
I mean that just shows up oneday and you're like, oh hey, I
got to pay all these too.
But when you're making thosedecisions they're uninformed.
(27:52):
But in our heads we're like Iknow what's going on.
I know what's going to happenwith the market.
I know what's going on.
I know what's going to happenwith the market.
I know what's going on here.
And then when the banker mangoes, hey, why are we doing this
?
Oh well, because here's why.
And he looks at you and go,well, that's convincing, and
I've known you a long time,johnny.
But like, where's the paperwork?
Where's your P&L and balancesheet?
(28:14):
What's it look like?
Do you know what's on there?
Can you sit here and describein front of that banker and go I
know everything that's on thatP&L and balance sheet.
Because I had to go sit in frontof my big boy CPA in the first
or second week of this year andgo, hey, look, I have got to
figure out my inside accountingpiece.
(28:34):
I mean, I had a pretty goodstart in the six months before
you got here of really startingto channel, of going this way in
estimation and productioncompared to what it was.
But for me to get it over, oreven get it to an elementary
start, I don't have that power,guys.
I don't know how to set it up.
(28:55):
I don't know how to set it up.
I don't know how to create it.
Yeah, could our teameffectively get there?
Yeah, how many foremans aregonna have to go?
How many superintendents aregonna have to go?
How many project managers aregonna have to go?
How many estimators are gonnaget pissed off and leave because
they can't get the rightinformation from the back of the
office after production's at itso we can appropriately and
accurately estimate Like howmany?
(29:18):
And so here we are.
I was done.
I wanted to figure it out, soI've been kind of harping on
that Blue Collar PerformanceMarketing guys.
You guys have been hearing metalk about them for almost 10
episodes.
They've been partnered up withthe show I think three months.
At this point.
(29:40):
I have been with Ike and theteam for some time now.
They came in, took a look atour website, our entire campaign
, telling us where we're wastingmoney, where we're not spending
enough time, where the peoplewe want are on the social game,
where the people we want are onthe social game.
So what I'm trying to get atvalue with those guys has been
(30:03):
absolutely astronomical.
They take the time, they sitwith you.
You have to give them the time,just like Michalina sitting
here today.
You've got to take the time andliterally sit down and pour
this information out of yourhead.
But if you do that, I promiseyou you will start seeing the
compounded wins.
So if you guys want to get withIke over at Blue Collar
(30:25):
Performance Marketing, get withbcperformancemarketingcom
backslash bcbpodcast for yourfree, comprehensive look.
He'll give you a discovery call.
He's going to take a look atyour website and what you guys
got going on from the socialcampaign status and move from
there and get you guys astrategy built and hopefully get
you in front of the rightpeople.
So give them a ring.
(30:47):
But back at it, michelina.
I'm just trying to sit here andthink um, from the organization
chart.
I know that sounds sosimplistic, but I literally
didn't have one.
Like I had an idea, but theword that hit home with me that
you probably don't evenunderstand was the flatarchy.
(31:09):
I had never been told.
Hey, this is a flatarchy Likeyou have got to fix this.
And I'm like everything'sunderneath me.
That is literally the hamsterwheel that I'm talking about
that I got to get off.
How do I start developing thesystems underneath these people?
(31:31):
And as a blue collar businessowner, you'd sit there and you
go.
Man, I can't tell Jimmy thatBobby's his boss.
Heck, no, I can't do that.
Well then, jimmy's going to getpissed off and leave.
Well then, jimmy don't need tobe here.
And it took me some time.
You literally watched me kind ofdeal with it personally and
emotionally, from the damagethat what these individuals
(31:52):
don't really understand and thisis something I've had to deal
with too as a leader that it'snot always personal, but when
you have personal ties into therelationship before they come to
work for you, it will alwaysmake things difficult.
But these people that weresupposed to be here for life you
know that swore up and down,but it's not necessarily.
(32:13):
Yeah, they didn't do their jobor whatever the case may be, but
PsyCon literally didn't givethem all of the tools that they
needed to be able to view andlook at or create to literally
solve the problem that they keptrunning into, which was the
communication front, theinformation gathering front, the
(32:35):
documenting and the storing ofthat information, and that's
where I was going to go next isyou know, you've seen that when
we first showed up, we wereliterally, we had a pretty
decent documentation statprocess.
Now was everybody doing it?
No, we brought light to thatvery quickly and I have always
(32:55):
been really good at startingthings.
Here we go, boys.
This is what we're doing thisweek.
Here we go, guys.
Hey, ladies, I need this, thisand this.
And we're doing this week.
Here we go, guys.
Hey, ladies, I need this, thisand this, and we're gonna start
this and this is how it's gonnaroll every time here on out, and
we get it the next time andthen the next time we've got to
reschedule because we're allworking and then, and then we
kind of forget about it, andthen we update and we kind of
(33:17):
try to get it scheduled againthree months later and then it
just dies.
Execution after implementationis everything, and implementing
it is one thing, starting it,getting it going, but being able
to have a checks and balanceaccountable system that to catch
(33:38):
hey look, homeboy's not puttinganything in there, like you're
telling me yes, oh well, arethese other two guys.
Yeah, no, they're going overthe top with information.
Why is this guy getting tosqueak by?
Where's the system to catchthat?
And we and we maneuvered thatvery quickly to and to put
another set of eyes on it toensure that I know and I catch
(33:59):
an email.
Hey, I'm on our report everyweek.
Misty shout out, she'll stickit on her hand.
I haven't got any maintenanceinspection sheets, my gosh or I
haven't got any truck inspectionsheets, and this crew's been
doing a really good job at it.
So I'm not sitting thereharping on the whole bunch like
(34:21):
I used to, because any, anytimeyou guys would bring me
something.
It would be well, we've got totalk about this this week.
Well, there may be a group ofguys that are doing great.
Now I know.
Anyways, but the documentationpiece.
Let's talk about software forjust a minute, because in the
month of June it's the month ofsoftware, but there's so many
(34:46):
programs out there.
You hit on Microsoft 365, theremay be some guys still on Mac
out there or whatever they'redoing, but Microsoft 365, you
have to have.
Okay, that's a check mark Fromthere.
Even, pardon me, where wouldthey go if they're sitting there
trying to, maybe instead ofjust emailing, because at one
(35:08):
point we tried Microsoft Teamswithin 365 is where I was going
with that it just doesn't reallyserve that purpose.
Although it can set up all thejobs and store files there, it's
just really clunky for the guysout in the field and they
couldn't really get theinformation back.
Maybe a couple of programs thathandle from the project
(35:29):
management base, maybe somethingwe're not thinking about.
Maybe some things that we usenow, or whatever it may be for
the guys that are just nowjumping into that software kind
of game so you first have toanalyze like your business and
what you really need.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You already had builder trends that you were
using, so we didn't want to gospend a bunch of money on more
software.
Like I mentioned, the guys arein the field, they're busy,
they're not sitting at a deskall day, so you need something
that's going to cover most ofthe bases, if not all of them.
(36:13):
When we first started I thoughtAsana was the way to go.
I love Asana.
I just like the way it looks.
What's Asana the way to go?
Right, I love Asana.
I just like the way it looks.
What's Asana?
Part of it?
What's Asana?
For the folks that don't know,it's a project management
database software that you canuse, sort of like mondaycom.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But what we learned is that Dylan, your estimator,
was having a little issue withCRM keeping track of his
estimates that he had sent out,his bid invites that he was
working on and the status of allthat and his communication with
clients.
So Asana doesn't do a CRM, sowe didn't want to start using
(37:03):
something, just another program,just because it works good for
project management.
The ultimate goal is to findone program that covers most of
your bases, if not all, and weworked with Ike and we did some
(37:25):
research.
Ike did his research becausehe's more CRM, I'm not.
I'm more project management.
So we both did our research.
We ultimately landed onmondaycom and right now we're
not using it for projectmanagement.
We're still in builder trimbecause that's what your guys
are used to, but eventually wewill get everything rolled over
(37:49):
into Mondaycom, so you're justusing one platform.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
The CRM is something that's totally new, but totally
new to the blue collar workingworld and it may not be maybe
speaking a little neglectfulthere, because there are very
high transaction-based companiesout there like HVAC service
call bases or companies orplumbers or electricians that
(38:14):
may do a ton of service callsacross 20 crews.
That's a high influx for thefront of the office.
They're probably using sometype of CRM management, no doubt
, but for an excavation businessowner that probably only
handles five to ten contracts amonth and it's not a real high
transactional base but it's areal high volume in the price
tag department.
You still need to organizethese people, especially as the
(38:39):
contract value goes up, thenurturing of that contract and
knowing where my estimatorstarted and stopped, where I'm
picking up because, like I'vebeen telling you guys, I'm kind
of transitioning up to the faceand and starting to do more
sales again, which I absolutelylove, and anyway it's a
different subject.
But mondaycom I have literallybeen helping Ike Shalina and
(39:04):
Dylan structure this softwarefor Dylan, because it's not for
me, it's not my owner's ego.
I love the sales table but ifit's what Dylan wants I don't
care whatever, as long as we arebeing efficient and we're
getting numbers accurately.
Enough time to take off, putour numbers together and get
(39:26):
them out in a scheduled manner.
I don't care what it needs tolook like, I can procure the
information in your way, butDylan has been super effective
in communicating what he wants.
We just don't know how to getthere.
And now we have been literallytooling around with this CRM
tool for almost 90 days and I'mgetting a lot of enjoyment out
(39:49):
of it and I am going intosubcategories, tasks, and I'm
like bro, who am I Like?
This is so, but, like I wassaying earlier, what we don't
realize it's not just all aboutROI to a business owner, it's
the benefits from all theselittle things that you have to
(40:10):
concentrate.
That equals the big picturethat you don't automatically see
the benefit.
Once you feel the benefit fromit, you're like, oh, oh, that's
why we do that.
That makes way more sense.
They didn't even call me.
They always call me about thatthing, but we were able to
document and johnny showed up onthe job and, uh, he, he looked
(40:31):
back in us.
Whatever project managementtool and builders trends, what
we use.
We did the pro course thing andthat's a whole different
podcast for a different day.
But I remember the first timeJesus showed up on a job and he
didn't call me for a said taskthat I normally catch a call on.
Why?
Because so-and-so put hisdadgum daily log in there.
(40:55):
From the last time he was therehe knew exactly what he was
going in, took pictures ofeverything when he left it.
It was different when he showedup, but I remember, hey Zeus,
what happened over there today?
Well, we had some differentthings that we had.
I got it all worked out withthe GC and they supplied us some
rock because of whatever.
And I'm like, whoa, what youhad?
(41:16):
The GC supply us rock bypictures and documentation that
you had in the field, because itlooked like this and I didn't
even have to make a photo.
Are you kidding me?
Like, at that point I saw and Ifelt the benefit.
That's what I mean by that.
And financially it willcompound, there's no doubt, but
(41:37):
it's going to take some time.
But those are the small benefitsI will encourage you guys to be
on the look for and celebratethem.
Don't just skip over them.
Oh, what's on to the next thing.
It's so easy for anentrepreneur or any executive on
any team just go.
Oh well, that was cool.
No, if you created change lastquarter and you're seeing
benefit from that change thenext quarter, celebrate it.
(42:00):
And I'm not the best at thatand I've had to challenge myself
like Dylan.
Dylan set a record month lastmonth.
I walked in there yesterday.
I'm like dude, we're going toeat steak somewhere.
You just let me know where.
I bought the team lunch in theoffice today and the girl's been
working hard but anyways, butfinding those little celebratory
wins that are special to thosepeople in those departments.
(42:21):
But it's getting a little offtrack.
So builder's trend Mondaycom.
We're using on the front of thehouse, the CRM, and our
delineation line is contractessentially.
So the boys really don'tanything from the off side,
aren't really seeing anything ofMonday yet and eventually go
(42:43):
ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Well, they are adding data to Monday.
Yes, go ahead.
So we put a link into theirdaily log and builder trend
where they go in and they clickthe link and they add their
production data and that wayDylan can look back at the jobs
(43:06):
its sorts by jobs and materialsversus labor.
Very really, that's really cool.
You don't even know.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
No, it's really cool.
Things have been happening sofast.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Dylan can go in and look at the job and kind of see
where they're landing on laborand, you know, use that
information in his estimating.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I know he's been, him and Shea have been in that WIP
report and that's more for anaccounting day.
But from the productionstandpoint, fighting against
those estimated and known costs,costs.
But that's the one documentthat he feels as an estimator he
can sit there and go.
I can literally live track thisjob and see how I'm doing.
(43:53):
It's a race to make surethere's enough of his estimate
left there at the end comparedto the known costs.
So, but okay, so say a guy.
Um Asana, you were speakingabout builder's trend trend.
Speak a little bit aboutbuilder's trend, whether you
like it or dislike.
I'd like to hear about that.
And is there another programout there that you do like that
maybe cyclone doesn't use thatyou could see utilized across
(44:14):
another platform I builder trendis a nice program.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I think it it's geared more toward, like,
residential builders.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
And then yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I didn't.
I wasn't familiar withBuilderTrend until working with
you, so I had to get in thereand learn some of the features.
One of the things that we didlike one of the problems that we
assessed early on was the lackof schedules and not having a
schedule for a project that youcould share with a stakeholder
(44:49):
Yep and so I had to spend sometime in Builder Trend.
I watched a lot of videos tolearn how to create a good
schedule in Builder Trend,create a good schedule and
builder trend, and then, ofcourse, I had to sit down with
your guys and do one-on-onetrainings with them, because now
, when they start a job, theyalso go into builder trend under
(45:13):
that job and they create aschedule and and then they
maintain the schedule as as theygo it makes me excited because,
and where we're trending toback to the short-term,
long-term goals.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
This is the short-term, everybody's updating
a schedule per job.
But long-term, all of thoseupdates transfer over into a
broadband company schedule, inwhich monday does, I do believe,
but BuildersTrend doesn't do.
Right, that's one of the things.
Well, you don't have the fullversion.
(45:49):
That's right, you don't do thefull package.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So I don't know if they would offer that.
That's a little bit expensive.
Mondaycom is, I think, a littlemore cost-effective, and
Mondaycom where you at.
Eventually, what we want to dois when Dylan goes through the
estimating process in Monday andthen it gets to contracts.
(46:12):
If you win the bid it goes tocontract.
Once the contract is complete,then that job will roll up into
a project management board andfrom there that's where the guys
would manage the schedule andproduction and labor and all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
But how we're fighting it right now with the
two then spin around here.
When it's time to take thatproject to contract, the guys
obviously the schedule is goingto need to be updated from when
(46:54):
dylan sent it.
So at that point, whatever thecontract date is, they go in and
plug in their dates and theymichelina literally sat with the
superintendents and was like,hey look, this is how we create
a schedule in here and this iswhat happens if this window pops
up and it's that time that'sneeded to be able to go.
Now I can go and look on myphone and go, oh okay, we're
(47:18):
behind schedule here.
We're definitely behindschedule.
What is going on here, and it'sjust live trying and it's not
anything extra on the guysbecause they don't feel like
they've got to go figure it outon themselves.
They just got instructedliterally hey guys, you have to
do this, and not just from astandpoint of you have to do
this.
But here's why and why thisschedule is so important to Shea
(47:42):
, to Dylan, to the projectmanagers, to everyone here.
It is vitally important and,honestly, it's one of those
things that I always put to thewayside because the schedule is
right here.
Honest to God, I don't know,all the guys had it it was up in
their head.
Yep, exactly, and it is not theway to do it and it's not the
(48:03):
way to scale and grow.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
You can't until you get it out on paper and if they
look like there's something inthis job that's going to force
(48:27):
them to go over their labornumbers or even materials, then
we know ahead of time.
We're not addressing it the dayit happens.
We're addressing it two orthree weeks before it happens
and then that can be taken backto the stakeholder.
Or maybe it's an adjustmentthat the team has to make, you
(48:50):
know, depending on the job, butit puts some ownership back on
the guys in the field to makesure that that job is profitable
and it gives them anopportunity to keep it
profitable from the get-go andtransparency guys.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I encourage you be transparent all the way to a
fault with your guys with theproduction data.
If there's 420 tons of gravelin that job, let them know.
There's 420 tons of gravel inthat job, so that way when they
get 500 tons, well that's onthem.
They knew.
But if they don't know, theydon't know, they're just trying
(49:29):
to get the job done.
I can't tell you how many timesthat I would get upset about
things that they just didn'tknow wouldn't get upset with
them.
I get upset with me.
I have this running thing.
I'll never get mad at you ifyou don't know.
It's my job.
I'm the trainer, my name, youwork here.
But now if I take the time andthoroughly stand there and
(49:52):
explain not only how but why wedo what we're doing, and then it
does happen again where youjust didn't do it, then we're
going to have a serious issue.
You know, and I take thistraining and implementation of
our people very serious, but atthe same time I was lacking on
the career roadmaps and fromthose job descriptions.
(50:14):
What does that unlock?
It unlocks the pathway ofadvancement for them and it
really gives them something towork towards, while they're just
not.
They're just not, while they'rejust working away.
They're also working away atsomething else and actually have
a goal that's achievable maybesomething a little unachievable,
(50:36):
but something really to worktowards.
And that was probably, I think,one of the coolest.
The coolest things I have seenthat has come out of this for
our people is that we'reliterally why I've brought you
in.
Yeah, it's a little bit for me,don't get me wrong, but it's for
them.
I want their job to run assuccessfully as possible.
(50:59):
I want them to feel that theyhave all the training that they
could possibly grab a hold of,and I want them to feel
empowered when they're out there.
I don't want them to feelscared or whatever they're going
at.
It's these internal pre-cons.
I think we probably didn'tdiscuss that at all, but we kind
of did it.
We kind of not did it, but youwere the one that was like no,
(51:21):
this is the perfect point.
We have to have these totransfer this data out of
dylan's hands into size and intothere.
So we we're all on the samepage here.
So we're communicating aboutthe same amount of quantities
here and we all know theproduction rate, so that way,
when they're laying 20 feet andthen they needed to put 100 feet
in the ground, today we allunderstand there's there and
(51:45):
let's go find it.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
It's more than just materials and labor.
You have superintendents thatreally need to understand the
contract and the terms, becausethose change depending on the
job, and they need to be in theknow of what is required on that
job.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And I can't tell you it's crazy.
It's crazy the amount ofdevelopment we've already done
to sit here and just kind oftalk about.
I can't wait to feel and seewhat it's going to do in like
six months from now, because I'mstarting to feel those small
compounded benefit, situationalbenefits I guess, um, but I
(52:29):
literally can't wait to not notfor me.
I want to see wesley in sixmonths.
I can't wait to see zeus in ayear.
I can't wait to see sam in ayear, like, like and get them on
this path to success.
There is no more.
What you didn't know, no, guys,I'm talking.
We have papers, like stacks ofthem.
(52:51):
Now there is and we're creatingvideos for our marketing
program, which I thought was agreat idea for our onboarding
and our implementing.
If you guys don't know, I psycondoes a uh youtube channel.
We do double uploads a week andbring you behind the scenes of
exactly what the company isdoing for, not just for you guys
, but for our customers andeverybody to see.
(53:12):
So I guess I kind of lost mytrain of thought there.
But, um, what was I saying?
Training videos?
Oh, that's exactly what I'msaying.
Editors, help me out there,sorry.
So through that youtube programuh will is selena's, giving us a
small list of generic stuff,because, as the entrepreneur or
(53:35):
the ops manager, you're so faroff in the weeds you're like I
don't know what to give them.
Well, how about ppe sigh?
And I'm like, oh yeah, like,let's us two minute video of
this is what's required from mein a video.
I don't have to stand thereevery time, but this I'm telling
you.
So when I show up for the firsttime and they see me on a job,
they're like oh, that dude,that's the dude that told me
(53:56):
that I gotta have my hard hat on, but I get my hammer hard hat
on, which we don't play thatgame here.
We wear art hats, but anyways,it's the small things like that
that stacks the compounds.
But what would you say in theoverall grand scheme of things,
from the project managementlevel is the?
(54:17):
I've talked about where tostart, but if you had one
section of it that is the mostimportant, could you narrow it
down to one thing?
um, I would think take your timeif you need the most important
would probably be Um teamdevelopment.
(54:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
What an answer.
You're not going to make anymoney if they can't do their job
properly, efficiently, in atimely manner.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
On schedule.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
I think, making sure that they have all the tools and
that they're trained on thosetools.
That's one of the things that Ithink I've been.
You know, and it's difficult.
That is one of the hardestthings working with your company
right now is trying to find thetime to spend with your guys to
(55:33):
train them, because the onlytime you can do that is when the
weather's bad yeah, especiallywhen the weather's been so bad
this year yeah, and it seemslike when we do think there's
going to be a weather day and weschedule it, then it doesn't
rain and then they need to beout working, so that's, that's a
struggle it is but it'simportant.
(55:55):
I mean, we have seen just inyour company what me sitting
with the guys for an hourtalking about schedules has done
with.
You know their use of buildertrend, that they were never
trained on how to use it and itwas never really part of their
job description that's right.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
And they, literally they were just what do you mean?
Now I gotta put the pipe in andthen talk about how what I did.
You know it's foreign, you know, and this software and all this
stuff and computers has onlybeen around for a couple of
decades.
You know, especially out therein the field.
I mean the last 15 years.
How long has iPads been around?
(56:37):
Maybe a decade.
You know what I mean.
This has all come on reallystrong and now it's all the way
on their phone and clocking itout on their phone.
Yeah, that's a totallydifferent subject for another
day.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I mean, how awesome was it Monday morning sitting
there seeing your twosuperintendents sitting in the
meeting with their iPads open.
They had their weekly reportpulled up.
They were engaged.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Very.
It was awesome Setting the tone, asking the questions, not me
going.
Hey, what do you think aboutthis this week?
What do you think about that?
Hey, we really gotta get oldjohnny knocked out.
You know he's really gonna beme, just didn't have any clue.
You know what do you put on them, how do you put it on them.
You know they need to be doingit, but you really don't know
(57:25):
how to get there for them.
Number one for you to keep yourpeople not piss them off.
But it's just exactly why folkslike you are needed in all
industries industries, and Iencourage hopefully um, I don't
(57:49):
think there's going to be manymale in this role just from the
attention to detail, because theamount of detail that you put
into this and care about thesmall details me and you guys
entrepreneurs, you're not goingto care like, like a lady like
miss shalina and her companydoes, because she's passionate
about it.
I've seen the passion, I'velived through the passion like,
literally like.
(58:10):
Why do you care so much aboutthis, michelina?
It's not that important like,but it is that important and you
have to see it.
You need somebody to hold youaccountable.
So I would encourage you guyswhere's the best place to find
4G on LinkedIn?
I would say LinkedIn, yep,that's the most professional
place to find anything.
But find Ms Jelena, reach outand maybe discuss a few things
(58:35):
and maybe she can point you inthe right direction and find her
there on LinkedIn.
But the last final question Iask everybody on this show yeah,
you were ready for this, youwere ready for this one.
She's watched a few episodes, Ithink, more or less to just get
in my head.
But what's a takeaway for theseblue-collar workers?
I don't care if it's the guyholding a shovel just walked on
(58:56):
job day one trying to figure outwhat this blue-collar life is
about, or it's a project manageron burnout and just so sick and
tired of dealing with thestress, emotionally, physically,
mentally, just stuck in the mud.
What are we saying to that guytoday?
Speaker 2 (59:16):
I've been that guy, good girl.
Um, I think, um, I think youare a really good example of
this, because you are willing tolearn and change and go through
the uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
Shame and embarrassment, yeah, like
literally.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Like all of it.
Like you and I have had somereally uncomfortable
conversations Maybe not souncomfortable for me, but they
were really uncomfortable foryou and I think that is a great
quality, because if you arewilling to change, you are not
going to stay stuck.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Oh, you came prepared .
That is good, that's reallygood.
You actually you can alwaystell when folks have thought
about that answer and havelistened to an episode that if
you're willing to change, youcan stay stuck.
I think that's probably goingto be an infamous answer to that
, because you're right, you'renot stuck unless you stop.
(01:00:25):
As long as you don't stop andyou're always pressing forward
whether it's the wrong directionor not, just don't stand in the
middle of the road and get runover both ways.
Pick a lane.
It doesn't matter if it's thewrong lane, you pick the lane.
You're going to learn veryquickly if it's the wrong lane,
or you might learn it's theright lane.
Just make the dang decision andembrace change.
(01:00:49):
I would so encourage that, andthere's some people on my team
that didn't want to embrace thechange, and you know whether
they're here or not.
There's some folks that's stillhere, that are still having a
hard time embracing the changeand have got a little bit of a
rude awakening.
In the next 60, 90 days they'regoing to figure it out, huh.
So anyways, guys, I reallytruly hope you got to see a
(01:01:14):
little insight today from myperspective and what I've been
coming on this show and tellingyou guys that I've been working
on behind the scenes and Iwanted to bring the credibility
but also open up exactly 4G, thesame place that I'm having so
much success doing exactly whatwe're discussing today the
(01:01:38):
minute details that areimportant for your success and
your team's success and thedevelopment of your team.
You have to go find the rightperson and I will tell you, the
one I use is wonderful and Ireally appreciate all the work
you've put in over the first sixmonths of this year and I
cannot wait to see the benefitcompound and stack over the next
(01:01:58):
couple of years Because whenthat operations manager does get
a hold of these systems, a goodone's going to be excited
because he gets to still moldthem and shape them and I'm
really excited to see them takeoff and run.
With what we've done and I'mglad I got it done in year nine
Like most of the bad stuff iskind of over.
You know what I mean, don't getme wrong.
There's still things that we'regoing to deal with and have
(01:02:20):
hard conversations, but like themost of the research and like
having to tell all the nitty,nitty, nitty gritty is kind of
over with and it's encouragingfor me to keep moving forward.
You know, some of them weeks.
I wasn't looking forward asmuch to these meetings Okay, but
I know they need.
I knew for us to move forward,we had to, so thank you so much
for joining me today.
For us to move forward, we hadto, so thank you so much for
(01:02:43):
joining me today.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, guys, you can catch.
This is episode number 41.
I would love to know if anybodyhas actually listened to every
single episode all the way tothe end.
If you have, go ahead and reachinto the show.
I've got something specialbrewed up for episode number 50
(01:03:04):
coming at you guys.
Until then, check outbluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
You'll check out all theepisodes completely free to
watch and to listen to straightfrom there.
Or, if you have a subscriptionon any of the podcast platforms,
make sure you drop us a followand a rating at the end of the
(01:03:24):
episode, which most of them makeyou do.
But I greatly appreciate it anduntil next time, you guys, you
guys be safe and be kind andwe'll see you on the next one.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like,
share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
Who do you want to hear from?
(01:03:45):
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast
, where we discuss the realest,rawest, most relevant stories
and strategies behind buildingevery corner of a blue collar
business.
I'm your host, cy Kirby, and Iwant to help you in what it took
me trial and error and a wholelot of money to learn the
information that no one in thisindustry is willing to share.
Whether you're under that shadetree or have your hard hat on,
(00:30):
let's expand your toolbox.
Welcome back, guys, to anotherepisode of the Blue Collar
Business Podcast, sponsored andpresented by podcastvideoscom.
We are in the beautiful I dobelieve they call this the
conference room here in theRogers Arkansas location.
I have a guest that you guyshave all been waiting for.
(00:51):
You've been hearing me preach,talk about systems and processes
and procedures and why they'reimportant, and all the things
that I've been doing behind thescenes at PsyCon, and today
you're going to get to actuallyhear firsthand a little bit
about what we've been doing, butalso some basic implementation
(01:13):
steps that you can start gettingyour guys, your teams, on a
fast track within a projectmanagement system, and I have
been truly waiting to bring someof the insight from and use me
as an example and some of thehorror stories we could probably
(01:34):
get into today when our guestfirst showed up and started
helping.
So today, furthermore, I have MsShalina Taylor, owner of 4G
Enterprises, and a little briefdescription essentially has been
CyCon's active fractionalproject manager for essentially
for the last six months,implementing systems and
(01:57):
processes and SOPs, standardoperating procedures and things
of that nature.
So we're going to talk aboutthat in the blue collar setting
and why that is important foryou guys.
This is not just for thecorporate world.
You have got to implement someof this if you want to succeed,
(02:18):
grow and scale.
So furthermore thank you, msShalina, so much for joining me.
Thank you for having me, ofcourse.
Where do we start today?
Because, literally, Michalinawould, for the first couple of
months, during a researchanalyst's little phase, sunday,
(02:49):
through what you would call nota meeting, but a collective
group of individuals gettingtogether and talking about what
they may or may not get donethat week, you can start.
Let's start number one with alittle bit about you.
But I am so honestly shockedthe power of LinkedIn within
just a year's time and how I'vebeen on there and started
(03:11):
integrating.
But that's where I found you.
Like you, you had justbasically put out an ad for
where you're at, you know, anduh, I found you and thank God we
did, because we havefast-forwarded what I have been
and what Sarah has been beggingto get done for years.
But now I understand the need.
(03:32):
But tell us a little bit aboutyou before we get going too far
here.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Sure, I have spent the last 12 years in commercial
construction on the owner's side, so I had that perspective
Before that.
All of my positions withprevious companies were all
project related, so I've beendoing project reading for a long
(04:00):
time.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Sizable construction project management.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
The last 12 years were, yes, very large projects,
so it just seemed like a naturalprogression to try to start my
own company and help small tomedium-sized businesses with
their project management.
And I tend to gravitate towardblue-collar so I really enjoy
(04:31):
helping the blue-collar industry, so that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Honestly, it's what's needed and I have picked up on
many times from your pastexperience with working with the
blue-collar world owners, fromConcrete or Steel Guys or HVAC
or whatever it may be, toexcavation and utility guys.
We're all disorganized.
(04:57):
We're all completely lostindividuals.
From the organizationstandpoint, we don't know what
is important first, like wedon't even know where to start.
We don't know.
All we're concentrated on isthe next job and trying to get
this job done.
And it's this hamster wheel ofdeath for an entrepreneur of go,
(05:20):
gather as much work as possible, go, do that work, because you
just gathered too much work forwhat you have.
Then you grow a little bit oh,I've got a bit more work, get
over here.
And it's just back and forthand back and forth.
And as you showed up here,literally that was the
representation of the wheel thatI was on and obviously the
audience has watched me progressthrough having a project
(05:42):
manager and backing up and goingoh, this is on my plate now and
it needs to be, because you andthe systems that you have made
so important, and go no, look,you have got to understand.
This is so important If youwant to do what you tried to do
put this in place.
(06:02):
Then we go find the rightcandidates and you let them roll
.
And I'm like, well, that's whatI've been wanting to do this
whole time, but I didn'tunderstand how to get there.
And this is the key, literallythe key and shout out to Mr
Howerton, because I wasn't.
I was serious about it lastyear, like I knew it was a focus
(06:25):
point.
Obviously, july, my projectmanager going and doing his own
thing, was a definite wake-upcall for me and I'm like, man,
why am I failing so hard withyou know, the leadership
principle?
Why is it still all on me?
I have all these people inplace like all tree mess of
people and it was all implodingon me and it was all back on me
(06:51):
every single day, like, did younot ask this person and this
person and this person?
Yeah, but we didn't getanywhere.
So we just came straight to youand I'm like, oh my gosh.
Well, so, as you have got towatch, I literally sat there and
kind of made a decision myselfand I was like, hmm, I kind of
kind of take this role back overand number one understand it.
(07:14):
Number two, probably put myselfin their shoes and see the
disorganization and zerosystematic procedure other than,
oh, we took some pictures andthis is what we did that day.
Like guys, I'm not discouragingyou.
If you're at that level rightthere, that is a great place to
(07:35):
start.
But I'm telling you there's somuch more to it and for years
that's what I thought.
You know, we just document whatwe do and keep on rocking, get
us the next project and it's allthe finite information and
details to make it a whole lotless stressful.
Add a little bit ofaccountability, the right
(07:57):
accountability.
Job descriptions Do we startthere?
Descriptions, let's do we startthere?
I mean, I will talk about justfor a moment and I'm probably
gonna hop on this isn'tsomething you say but the job
descriptions and how vitally.
I can't tell you guys how vitaljob descriptions are, because
(08:22):
you can have a whole mess ofpeople 30 people but if there's
no organization chart and jobdescriptions for what each and
every single person does at thatcompany, I know that sounds
overwhelming, but seriously, andthat's what we've been working
through.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, one of the larger problems that we
discussed early on was the lackof accountability.
So you have to have people haveto know what they need to do,
what they're required to do,what's expected of them, in
(08:59):
order for you to hold themaccountable, and there wasn't
anything like that in placewhenever I first started working
with you guys.
So we're still in the middle ofrolling that out, because
that's a big job of trying todetermine what everybody needs
to be doing and how they need tobe doing it.
(09:19):
So you mentioned SOPs makingsure that we have the processes
in place for each jobdescription.
It's a big job, but it'sbasically that foundation that
you really need so that you canstart building.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It is literally the interweb.
It's the communication method.
I screamed for communication,but they needed a process to
communicate.
They were communicating, butnot everybody can remember
everything all day long.
So, guys, you don't know whatyou don't know.
And while Ms Shalina is talkingabout the size and the weight of
(10:00):
literally writing thesedocuments and making sure
they're in place, it is a big,big task.
Don't put it on your wife's,okay?
Like, literally, sarah would belike for years.
We've got to get this going.
She'd be reading and she'd bestudying and like this is
vitally important.
We've got to get this going.
And here I am Well, this joband that job, and I've got to
(10:22):
get a track.
Oh, here, well, this job andthat job, and I got to get a
track.
Go here and not even remotelytrying to bite into the
information she's trying to giveto me and understand, because I
didn't understand a lot, likeour audience today doesn't
understand the benefit and thecurse of not having it in place.
But it takes a long time to gothrough this process.
(10:46):
It's as fast or as slow as youwant it to be, mr or Mrs
Entrepreneur, but once you startto feel those little winds on
the other side of it and you seeJohnny the backhoe driver
literally driving his backhoeand he's happy and he
understands his job.
And he's happy and heunderstands his job and he's
getting those equipment checksheets in before he starts his
(11:08):
engine.
For you know, this is the smallthings but they don't become
necessarily hassles at thatpoint.
You know, I I screwed up in alot of ways but literally we're
fixing to start our 10th year inbusiness in August.
You guys, as plumbers andelectricians or excavation guys,
you're not job descriptionwriters and I would encourage
(11:32):
you to find somebody like MissShalina, spend the time sitting
here for her to pull theinformation out of in a very
therapeutic way.
And you go throughself-realizations and you go
through self-development and yougo through this vulnerability
(11:53):
and transparency, through thisand you start to realize, just
talking to somebody about this,you're like, oh my God, am I an
idiot?
And you just have these majorshifts.
I'm the bottleneck, literally.
You watched me do this.
I'm like I told Ms Salinas twodays in she's like you need an
operations manager, sir.
(12:13):
And I'm like, yeah, we're notdoing that again.
Yeah, I was so scarred and Iwas vulnerable in that
conversations where I was goingwith that to make sure you
understood like, hey look, it'snot like me saying no, I don't
need that.
I recognize the fact that I do.
I just don't know how toemotionally process dealing with
that right now and I know we'regoing a little off.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It took you six months.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It literally did, and it was three weeks ago.
Guys, I was just talking aboutit on the last episode.
We are hiring for an opsmanager role.
You can check it out on Sycon'sLinkedIn Shameless plug there.
But the beautiful jobdescription that was wrote by
the wonderful Miss Shalina righthere will be there for you to
read and analyze, and I guessthat's the way they get to check
(12:59):
homework on you today and thatrole's there.
We're looking for that persondesperately to empower the team.
It's what's lacking.
How did you know day two that Ineeded an operations manager?
I think that would be a reallygood question for you to answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
You know, I think I knew the day that we met for
coffee.
Okay, before I even started.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Start the discovery intro call okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
But at that that moment, you and sarah were very
open with me, um, and you guysgave me a lot of information in
that outer coffee slot that wehad.
But, um, it was good becausethen I kind of had an idea what
(13:47):
I was getting into as well.
But also, just, you're theowner of the company and your
focus needs to be on businessdevelopment and what I've seen
over the last six months is yourfocus is in 15 different
directions and a lot of it isfield operations, which part of
(14:11):
getting job descriptions inplace and putting some
accountability on your fieldcrew is going to take some of
that pressure off.
But you know, those are justsome of the little hints that
you know I saw along the waythat said that's what you need.
When we first started, I did aSWOT analysis talk about what a
(14:36):
SWOT analysis is.
so that's where you analyze acompany and you determine what
the strengths, the weaknesses,the opportunities and the
threats are.
And then, when you take allthat information and you figure
out how you can kind of buildoff of, how do you capitalize on
(14:56):
those opportunities to minimizeyour weaknesses.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So we did that and that told us a lot about psycon
told me a lot like seeing it onpaper in front of my face.
I couldn't disagree withanything.
And, um, I think the one phasethat I think we kind of skipped
through, but that first threemonths you were like a shadow
(15:23):
and not just with me guys, guyslike with the estimator, and if
there was a project manager, Imean you were filling that kind
of a gap there, but it was meand dealing with me on the
project management side, butalso dealing with me from the
and the hr stuff, making suremichelle up front in the back of
(15:46):
the house is taken care of,which is a whole different beast
in itself.
And and and not only that, itmade, it gave you the time, I do
believe, to understand, becauseI don't I don't think you were
in the blue collar working space, you know, in the last 15 years
, so I also gave you a littleappreciation.
(16:06):
I would hope to.
Oh, they're trying, but theyreally just don't know.
Did you think from January itcan't be that bad walking into
it?
I mean, we were prettytransparent about it, but at the
same time it can't be that bad,can it?
And then you get there.
Was there any shock walking in?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, I think not necessarily shock, because I
don't think you give yourselfenough credit for the things
that you did have organized andworking.
I mean, you did make it to year10.
So I don't think I was shocked.
(16:47):
I think the thing that reallyimpressed me was the dedication
of your team.
Yes, you had guys that just allthey want is to see Saigon, you
know, make it.
So they were just sitting therelike ready for someone to come
(17:09):
in and say, hey, let's try this,let's give you these tools so
that you can do this job alittle more efficiently.
So I wasn't shocked.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
No, Good Well from.
I think that will shine alittle light to maybe somebody
in your position as well thathas the knowledge and has the
direction and maybe can walk inand maybe hopefully inspire
somebody from the upper echelonof the world with the knowledge
(17:44):
level to step down and literallywork laterally along with a,
you know, much smallermid-market, whatever blue collar
skilled trades guy.
Because that's what this show'sabout is to take the white
collar world and literally dumbit down.
Enough for I mean us tounderstand, because that's why a
lot of blue collar guys don'treach directly out, because you
(18:06):
guys don't.
We don't speak the samelanguage, like we don't get all
the fancy words.
It takes us time and if Ididn't go through the last 10
years of experience, I wouldn'thave half a clue what you were
talking about day one.
And but I knew from the thingsthat I was lacking and the
things that I was researchingand the things that you were
saying is exactly what I needed.
And so once we got past thatkind of research and that phase,
(18:31):
you really I got to say youstarted holding me accountable,
and in both of my roles in thatPM slot, because I wouldn't give
it up.
But here we are.
We had a few people along theway that didn't like how this
navigation was going as well,and we both discussed that.
We knew a percentage wasprobably going to jump off the
(18:53):
ship and the percentage thatstayed was exactly.
Honestly, looking back isexactly what needed to happen
and also showed me that I madesome wrong hires, not
necessarily in the wrong people,but in the wrong positions, and
I've also, 30,000 foot big,pictured this like we're dealing
(19:17):
with another backlog issue.
Why are we dealing with anotherbacklog issue?
If we had a salesman, well, themarketing set up with my face
on it, but then I'm handing themoff to a different salesman,
well, that's probably not whatthey.
That's not really cohesive,right?
So I really put two and twotogether there when I could sit
back.
Number one I've had enough timeto analyze something and work on
(19:39):
the business and help navigateme.
Working on the business, asyou're holding me accountable as
the owner of the business,which you probably don't know as
much as you do, but navigating.
That alleviates all of thepressures out of my brain and,
with some of these systems thatthese guys are catching on with,
is buying me back a little bitof time to sit back and
(19:59):
literally analyze myself andanalyze a company and build
strategy and that's the.
I've like thought strategy wassuch a weird word for business.
But it's everything long-termstrategy and short-term strategy
and literally micro strategy toa like the stuff we're doing
with CRM stuff.
I know I'm getting way off thebeaten path here, but give us a
(20:25):
small say.
There's a guy listening todaythat wants this so desperately.
He's been in the same rut for20 years and he doesn't even
know to take the first step.
Where does he start?
What's the basics that he needsto cover for any skilled trades
(20:47):
?
Blue collar working business,documentation of the work
clocking in where?
Where do we need to start?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I honestly think that it is starting like we did with
your company is like you reallyhave to um sit and analyze what
are the gaps?
Um, how's the communication?
Do the teams feel supported?
What's your cash flow lookinglike?
(21:17):
Um, just all of those littlepieces have to be analyzed to
see kind of it's going to.
What it's going to do ishighlight the gaps there and
then, once you have those gaps,then you can figure out like
what, what do you need to fix on?
And in your case, you know youhad, you were taking on the
(21:39):
project management role and youwere taking it on 150 percent,
to the point where you werespending your week going out and
gathering information from theguys in the field, instead of
the guys in the field beingaccountable and giving you the
information.
So that's where you know wewe've found you know I sat in
(22:05):
those monday meetings.
You got me up god awful earlyin the morning to be at a
meeting, um every monday and umI would just sit there and be
like what are we doing?
Like I don't understand this.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So we Neither did my team, though.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, that's the point.
Nobody.
Yeah, they just needed somedirection.
So it was.
That was like a.
Really.
I think that's a good example ofhow we use technology to kind
of help with project management,because I was able to go in and
create just what programs thatyou already have in your office
(22:50):
365 packet.
You know, we used forms and Icreated a Microsoft form that
had questions and there was a QRcode.
The guys in the field couldjust scan the code, answer the
questions.
The questions were like youknow, does this project have any
(23:11):
constraints?
Are there challenges thatyou're encountering that site
needs to be involved in?
Do you need more labor?
What equipment do you need onthis site?
You know, like just, they werebasic questions, but you were
getting that information fromthe guys.
The guys were providing itthrough this form and then it
dumps it into a OneNote sheetand there you have your report
(23:36):
for your Monday morning meeting,and so it's simple, little
things like that.
And because the guys are outthere working, they're in the
field, they're working hard,they're not sitting at a desk
all day, so you have to tailorthis to something that's easy
for them to navigate and itdoesn't feel like a burden.
(23:59):
It feels like a tool.
So that's just like a littleexample of some of the things
that we've been working on toalleviate some of that pressure
on you and hold the guys in thefield a little more accountable.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I think you just blew a couple of guys' minds and
hold the guys in the field alittle more accountable.
You know, I think you just blewa couple of guys' minds because
they probably were sittingthere going wait a minute, that
makes sense.
Why am I showing up on Mondaytelling all these guys what's
happening?
And they show up every week.
These were on these jobs.
There's so many guys sitting inthe same position that may have
a few crews, or three or fouror five crews or whatever it may
(24:39):
be, and are still taking onthat pm role.
I can't tell you.
I can't.
I could probably name three orfour of them, but we just don't
know any different.
And until you say, well, whyhave we not stuck a qr code in
their truck to get thisinformation out of them?
And we're like what do you mean?
(25:00):
And the first time I'll never,freaking, forget it.
I knew it was such a gamechanger in our world.
One of the guys came up to me,a guy that you would never think
that even tried.
The method, you know what Imean, wasn't really set up for
him and he came in there and hegoes.
You know what I mean.
(25:38):
It wasn't really set up for himand he came in there and he
goes hey man, that's really cool.
I didn't know how you can dothat, but that also helps dn
logistically.
Help jim move our pieces of it.
It changed the whole game.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The qr code in a dadgum machine equipment
maintenance checklist and thenthey started asking for more qr
codes for other things.
So we ended up doing yourequipment safety inspection.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And it's fixing to happen more and more.
But it was mind boggling for mewhen you're like, why are you
giving all of them theinformation when you don't have
it?
Half the time they do.
And I'm like, oh my God, thathurt.
And you know, through thisprocess I'll just be 100%
(26:19):
vulnerable and open with youguys, like I try to be, like
it's not super fun, like it'snot definitely the most
vigorating time sitting heregoing over your mistakes, where
you've messed up, you don't know.
(26:40):
But as a business owner you'retaking it so hard.
You're like, how could Ifreaking not know this?
Whether you're five years in,you could be 20 years in sitting
there and going, oh my gosh,you know, you just don't know
what.
You just don't know.
And you've taught me so much inthe first six months in this
(27:04):
process of what we're doing.
But we're just now, like youhad said, rolling this out
Everything we've been working onfor six months and the guys are
a little impatient.
They're ready to get this going, and so am I.
But I think, as a blue collarbusiness owner, we tend to rush
things, we tend to think ofthings very one-laned and
(27:29):
instead of encompassing theentire business picture.
Hell when your first five yearsyou don't even know about 40%
of the business picture.
I'm actually talking about cashflow, interest and of that sort
taxes.
I mean that just shows up oneday and you're like, oh hey, I
got to pay all these too.
But when you're making thosedecisions they're uninformed.
(27:52):
But in our heads we're like Iknow what's going on.
I know what's going to happenwith the market.
I know what's going on.
I know what's going to happenwith the market.
I know what's going on here.
And then when the banker mangoes, hey, why are we doing this
?
Oh well, because here's why.
And he looks at you and go,well, that's convincing, and
I've known you a long time,johnny.
But like, where's the paperwork?
Where's your P&L and balancesheet?
(28:14):
What's it look like?
Do you know what's on there?
Can you sit here and describein front of that banker and go I
know everything that's on thatP&L and balance sheet.
Because I had to go sit in frontof my big boy CPA in the first
or second week of this year andgo, hey, look, I have got to
figure out my inside accountingpiece.
(28:34):
I mean, I had a pretty goodstart in the six months before
you got here of really startingto channel, of going this way in
estimation and productioncompared to what it was.
But for me to get it over, oreven get it to an elementary
start, I don't have that power,guys.
I don't know how to set it up.
(28:55):
I don't know how to set it up.
I don't know how to create it.
Yeah, could our teameffectively get there?
Yeah, how many foremans aregonna have to go?
How many superintendents aregonna have to go?
How many project managers aregonna have to go?
How many estimators are gonnaget pissed off and leave because
they can't get the rightinformation from the back of the
office after production's at itso we can appropriately and
accurately estimate Like howmany?
(29:18):
And so here we are.
I was done.
I wanted to figure it out, soI've been kind of harping on
that Blue Collar PerformanceMarketing guys.
You guys have been hearing metalk about them for almost 10
episodes.
They've been partnered up withthe show I think three months.
At this point.
(29:40):
I have been with Ike and theteam for some time now.
They came in, took a look atour website, our entire campaign
, telling us where we're wastingmoney, where we're not spending
enough time, where the peoplewe want are on the social game,
where the people we want are onthe social game.
So what I'm trying to get atvalue with those guys has been
(30:03):
absolutely astronomical.
They take the time, they sitwith you.
You have to give them the time,just like Michalina sitting
here today.
You've got to take the time andliterally sit down and pour
this information out of yourhead.
But if you do that, I promiseyou you will start seeing the
compounded wins.
So if you guys want to get withIke over at Blue Collar
(30:25):
Performance Marketing, get withbcperformancemarketingcom
backslash bcbpodcast for yourfree, comprehensive look.
He'll give you a discovery call.
He's going to take a look atyour website and what you guys
got going on from the socialcampaign status and move from
there and get you guys astrategy built and hopefully get
you in front of the rightpeople.
So give them a ring.
(30:47):
But back at it, michelina.
I'm just trying to sit here andthink um, from the organization
chart.
I know that sounds sosimplistic, but I literally
didn't have one.
Like I had an idea, but theword that hit home with me that
you probably don't evenunderstand was the flatarchy.
(31:09):
I had never been told.
Hey, this is a flatarchy Likeyou have got to fix this.
And I'm like everything'sunderneath me.
That is literally the hamsterwheel that I'm talking about
that I got to get off.
How do I start developing thesystems underneath these people?
(31:31):
And as a blue collar businessowner, you'd sit there and you
go.
Man, I can't tell Jimmy thatBobby's his boss.
Heck, no, I can't do that.
Well then, jimmy's going to getpissed off and leave.
Well then, jimmy don't need tobe here.
And it took me some time.
You literally watched me kind ofdeal with it personally and
emotionally, from the damagethat what these individuals
(31:52):
don't really understand and thisis something I've had to deal
with too as a leader that it'snot always personal, but when
you have personal ties into therelationship before they come to
work for you, it will alwaysmake things difficult.
But these people that weresupposed to be here for life you
know that swore up and down,but it's not necessarily.
(32:13):
Yeah, they didn't do their jobor whatever the case may be, but
PsyCon literally didn't givethem all of the tools that they
needed to be able to view andlook at or create to literally
solve the problem that they keptrunning into, which was the
communication front, theinformation gathering front, the
(32:35):
documenting and the storing ofthat information, and that's
where I was going to go next isyou know, you've seen that when
we first showed up, we wereliterally, we had a pretty
decent documentation statprocess.
Now was everybody doing it?
No, we brought light to thatvery quickly and I have always
(32:55):
been really good at startingthings.
Here we go, boys.
This is what we're doing thisweek.
Here we go, guys.
Hey, ladies, I need this, thisand this.
And we're doing this week.
Here we go, guys.
Hey, ladies, I need this, thisand this, and we're gonna start
this and this is how it's gonnaroll every time here on out, and
we get it the next time andthen the next time we've got to
reschedule because we're allworking and then, and then we
kind of forget about it, andthen we update and we kind of
(33:17):
try to get it scheduled againthree months later and then it
just dies.
Execution after implementationis everything, and implementing
it is one thing, starting it,getting it going, but being able
to have a checks and balanceaccountable system that to catch
(33:38):
hey look, homeboy's not puttinganything in there, like you're
telling me yes, oh well, arethese other two guys.
Yeah, no, they're going overthe top with information.
Why is this guy getting tosqueak by?
Where's the system to catchthat?
And we and we maneuvered thatvery quickly to and to put
another set of eyes on it toensure that I know and I catch
(33:59):
an email.
Hey, I'm on our report everyweek.
Misty shout out, she'll stickit on her hand.
I haven't got any maintenanceinspection sheets, my gosh or I
haven't got any truck inspectionsheets, and this crew's been
doing a really good job at it.
So I'm not sitting thereharping on the whole bunch like
(34:21):
I used to, because any, anytimeyou guys would bring me
something.
It would be well, we've got totalk about this this week.
Well, there may be a group ofguys that are doing great.
Now I know.
Anyways, but the documentationpiece.
Let's talk about software forjust a minute, because in the
month of June it's the month ofsoftware, but there's so many
(34:46):
programs out there.
You hit on Microsoft 365, theremay be some guys still on Mac
out there or whatever they'redoing, but Microsoft 365, you
have to have.
Okay, that's a check mark Fromthere.
Even, pardon me, where wouldthey go if they're sitting there
trying to, maybe instead ofjust emailing, because at one
(35:08):
point we tried Microsoft Teamswithin 365 is where I was going
with that it just doesn't reallyserve that purpose.
Although it can set up all thejobs and store files there, it's
just really clunky for the guysout in the field and they
couldn't really get theinformation back.
Maybe a couple of programs thathandle from the project
(35:29):
management base, maybe somethingwe're not thinking about.
Maybe some things that we usenow, or whatever it may be for
the guys that are just nowjumping into that software kind
of game so you first have toanalyze like your business and
what you really need.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You already had builder trends that you were
using, so we didn't want to gospend a bunch of money on more
software.
Like I mentioned, the guys arein the field, they're busy,
they're not sitting at a deskall day, so you need something
that's going to cover most ofthe bases, if not all of them.
(36:13):
When we first started I thoughtAsana was the way to go.
I love Asana.
I just like the way it looks.
What's Asana the way to go?
Right, I love Asana.
I just like the way it looks.
What's Asana?
Part of it?
What's Asana?
For the folks that don't know,it's a project management
database software that you canuse, sort of like mondaycom.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
But what we learned is that Dylan, your estimator,
was having a little issue withCRM keeping track of his
estimates that he had sent out,his bid invites that he was
working on and the status of allthat and his communication with
clients.
So Asana doesn't do a CRM, sowe didn't want to start using
(37:03):
something, just another program,just because it works good for
project management.
The ultimate goal is to findone program that covers most of
your bases, if not all, and weworked with Ike and we did some
(37:25):
research.
Ike did his research becausehe's more CRM, I'm not.
I'm more project management.
So we both did our research.
We ultimately landed onmondaycom and right now we're
not using it for projectmanagement.
We're still in builder trimbecause that's what your guys
are used to, but eventually wewill get everything rolled over
(37:49):
into Mondaycom, so you're justusing one platform.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
The CRM is something that's totally new, but totally
new to the blue collar workingworld and it may not be maybe
speaking a little neglectfulthere, because there are very
high transaction-based companiesout there like HVAC service
call bases or companies orplumbers or electricians that
(38:14):
may do a ton of service callsacross 20 crews.
That's a high influx for thefront of the office.
They're probably using sometype of CRM management, no doubt
, but for an excavation businessowner that probably only
handles five to ten contracts amonth and it's not a real high
transactional base but it's areal high volume in the price
tag department.
You still need to organizethese people, especially as the
(38:39):
contract value goes up, thenurturing of that contract and
knowing where my estimatorstarted and stopped, where I'm
picking up because, like I'vebeen telling you guys, I'm kind
of transitioning up to the faceand and starting to do more
sales again, which I absolutelylove, and anyway it's a
different subject.
But mondaycom I have literallybeen helping Ike Shalina and
(39:04):
Dylan structure this softwarefor Dylan, because it's not for
me, it's not my owner's ego.
I love the sales table but ifit's what Dylan wants I don't
care whatever, as long as we arebeing efficient and we're
getting numbers accurately.
Enough time to take off, putour numbers together and get
(39:26):
them out in a scheduled manner.
I don't care what it needs tolook like, I can procure the
information in your way, butDylan has been super effective
in communicating what he wants.
We just don't know how to getthere.
And now we have been literallytooling around with this CRM
tool for almost 90 days and I'mgetting a lot of enjoyment out
(39:49):
of it and I am going intosubcategories, tasks, and I'm
like bro, who am I Like?
This is so, but, like I wassaying earlier, what we don't
realize it's not just all aboutROI to a business owner, it's
the benefits from all theselittle things that you have to
(40:10):
concentrate.
That equals the big picturethat you don't automatically see
the benefit.
Once you feel the benefit fromit, you're like, oh, oh, that's
why we do that.
That makes way more sense.
They didn't even call me.
They always call me about thatthing, but we were able to
document and johnny showed up onthe job and, uh, he, he looked
(40:31):
back in us.
Whatever project managementtool and builders trends, what
we use.
We did the pro course thing andthat's a whole different
podcast for a different day.
But I remember the first timeJesus showed up on a job and he
didn't call me for a said taskthat I normally catch a call on.
Why?
Because so-and-so put hisdadgum daily log in there.
(40:55):
From the last time he was therehe knew exactly what he was
going in, took pictures ofeverything when he left it.
It was different when he showedup, but I remember, hey Zeus,
what happened over there today?
Well, we had some differentthings that we had.
I got it all worked out withthe GC and they supplied us some
rock because of whatever.
And I'm like, whoa, what youhad?
(41:16):
The GC supply us rock bypictures and documentation that
you had in the field, because itlooked like this and I didn't
even have to make a photo.
Are you kidding me?
Like, at that point I saw and Ifelt the benefit.
That's what I mean by that.
And financially it willcompound, there's no doubt, but
(41:37):
it's going to take some time.
But those are the small benefitsI will encourage you guys to be
on the look for and celebratethem.
Don't just skip over them.
Oh, what's on to the next thing.
It's so easy for anentrepreneur or any executive on
any team just go.
Oh well, that was cool.
No, if you created change lastquarter and you're seeing
benefit from that change thenext quarter, celebrate it.
(42:00):
And I'm not the best at thatand I've had to challenge myself
like Dylan.
Dylan set a record month lastmonth.
I walked in there yesterday.
I'm like dude, we're going toeat steak somewhere.
You just let me know where.
I bought the team lunch in theoffice today and the girl's been
working hard but anyways, butfinding those little celebratory
wins that are special to thosepeople in those departments.
(42:21):
But it's getting a little offtrack.
So builder's trend Mondaycom.
We're using on the front of thehouse, the CRM, and our
delineation line is contractessentially.
So the boys really don'tanything from the off side,
aren't really seeing anything ofMonday yet and eventually go
(42:43):
ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Well, they are adding data to Monday.
Yes, go ahead.
So we put a link into theirdaily log and builder trend
where they go in and they clickthe link and they add their
production data and that wayDylan can look back at the jobs
(43:06):
its sorts by jobs and materialsversus labor.
Very really, that's really cool.
You don't even know.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
No, it's really cool.
Things have been happening sofast.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Dylan can go in and look at the job and kind of see
where they're landing on laborand, you know, use that
information in his estimating.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I know he's been, him and Shea have been in that WIP
report and that's more for anaccounting day.
But from the productionstandpoint, fighting against
those estimated and known costs,costs.
But that's the one documentthat he feels as an estimator he
can sit there and go.
I can literally live track thisjob and see how I'm doing.
(43:53):
It's a race to make surethere's enough of his estimate
left there at the end comparedto the known costs.
So, but okay, so say a guy.
Um Asana, you were speakingabout builder's trend trend.
Speak a little bit aboutbuilder's trend, whether you
like it or dislike.
I'd like to hear about that.
And is there another programout there that you do like that
maybe cyclone doesn't use thatyou could see utilized across
(44:14):
another platform I builder trendis a nice program.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I think it it's geared more toward, like,
residential builders.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
And then yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I didn't.
I wasn't familiar withBuilderTrend until working with
you, so I had to get in thereand learn some of the features.
One of the things that we didlike one of the problems that we
assessed early on was the lackof schedules and not having a
schedule for a project that youcould share with a stakeholder
(44:49):
Yep and so I had to spend sometime in Builder Trend.
I watched a lot of videos tolearn how to create a good
schedule in Builder Trend,create a good schedule and
builder trend, and then, ofcourse, I had to sit down with
your guys and do one-on-onetrainings with them, because now
, when they start a job, theyalso go into builder trend under
(45:13):
that job and they create aschedule and and then they
maintain the schedule as as theygo it makes me excited because,
and where we're trending toback to the short-term,
long-term goals.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
This is the short-term, everybody's updating
a schedule per job.
But long-term, all of thoseupdates transfer over into a
broadband company schedule, inwhich monday does, I do believe,
but BuildersTrend doesn't do.
Right, that's one of the things.
Well, you don't have the fullversion.
(45:49):
That's right, you don't do thefull package.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
So I don't know if they would offer that.
That's a little bit expensive.
Mondaycom is, I think, a littlemore cost-effective, and
Mondaycom where you at.
Eventually, what we want to dois when Dylan goes through the
estimating process in Monday andthen it gets to contracts.
(46:12):
If you win the bid it goes tocontract.
Once the contract is complete,then that job will roll up into
a project management board andfrom there that's where the guys
would manage the schedule andproduction and labor and all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
But how we're fighting it right now with the
two then spin around here.
When it's time to take thatproject to contract, the guys
obviously the schedule is goingto need to be updated from when
(46:54):
dylan sent it.
So at that point, whatever thecontract date is, they go in and
plug in their dates and theymichelina literally sat with the
superintendents and was like,hey look, this is how we create
a schedule in here and this iswhat happens if this window pops
up and it's that time that'sneeded to be able to go.
Now I can go and look on myphone and go, oh okay, we're
(47:18):
behind schedule here.
We're definitely behindschedule.
What is going on here, and it'sjust live trying and it's not
anything extra on the guysbecause they don't feel like
they've got to go figure it outon themselves.
They just got instructedliterally hey guys, you have to
do this, and not just from astandpoint of you have to do
this.
But here's why and why thisschedule is so important to Shea
(47:42):
, to Dylan, to the projectmanagers, to everyone here.
It is vitally important and,honestly, it's one of those
things that I always put to thewayside because the schedule is
right here.
Honest to God, I don't know,all the guys had it it was up in
their head.
Yep, exactly, and it is not theway to do it and it's not the
(48:03):
way to scale and grow.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
You can't until you get it out on paper and if they
look like there's something inthis job that's going to force
(48:27):
them to go over their labornumbers or even materials, then
we know ahead of time.
We're not addressing it the dayit happens.
We're addressing it two orthree weeks before it happens
and then that can be taken backto the stakeholder.
Or maybe it's an adjustmentthat the team has to make, you
(48:50):
know, depending on the job, butit puts some ownership back on
the guys in the field to makesure that that job is profitable
and it gives them anopportunity to keep it
profitable from the get-go andtransparency guys.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I encourage you be transparent all the way to a
fault with your guys with theproduction data.
If there's 420 tons of gravelin that job, let them know.
There's 420 tons of gravel inthat job, so that way when they
get 500 tons, well that's onthem.
They knew.
But if they don't know, theydon't know, they're just trying
(49:29):
to get the job done.
I can't tell you how many timesthat I would get upset about
things that they just didn'tknow wouldn't get upset with
them.
I get upset with me.
I have this running thing.
I'll never get mad at you ifyou don't know.
It's my job.
I'm the trainer, my name, youwork here.
But now if I take the time andthoroughly stand there and
(49:52):
explain not only how but why wedo what we're doing, and then it
does happen again where youjust didn't do it, then we're
going to have a serious issue.
You know, and I take thistraining and implementation of
our people very serious, but atthe same time I was lacking on
the career roadmaps and fromthose job descriptions.
(50:14):
What does that unlock?
It unlocks the pathway ofadvancement for them and it
really gives them something towork towards, while they're just
not.
They're just not, while they'rejust working away.
They're also working away atsomething else and actually have
a goal that's achievable maybesomething a little unachievable,
(50:36):
but something really to worktowards.
And that was probably, I think,one of the coolest.
The coolest things I have seenthat has come out of this for
our people is that we'reliterally why I've brought you
in.
Yeah, it's a little bit for me,don't get me wrong, but it's for
them.
I want their job to run assuccessfully as possible.
(50:59):
I want them to feel that theyhave all the training that they
could possibly grab a hold of,and I want them to feel
empowered when they're out there.
I don't want them to feelscared or whatever they're going
at.
It's these internal pre-cons.
I think we probably didn'tdiscuss that at all, but we kind
of did it.
We kind of not did it, but youwere the one that was like no,
(51:21):
this is the perfect point.
We have to have these totransfer this data out of
dylan's hands into size and intothere.
So we we're all on the samepage here.
So we're communicating aboutthe same amount of quantities
here and we all know theproduction rate, so that way,
when they're laying 20 feet andthen they needed to put 100 feet
in the ground, today we allunderstand there's there and
(51:45):
let's go find it.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
It's more than just materials and labor.
You have superintendents thatreally need to understand the
contract and the terms, becausethose change depending on the
job, and they need to be in theknow of what is required on that
job.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And I can't tell you it's crazy.
It's crazy the amount ofdevelopment we've already done
to sit here and just kind oftalk about.
I can't wait to feel and seewhat it's going to do in like
six months from now, because I'mstarting to feel those small
compounded benefit, situationalbenefits I guess, um, but I
(52:29):
literally can't wait to not notfor me.
I want to see wesley in sixmonths.
I can't wait to see zeus in ayear.
I can't wait to see sam in ayear, like, like and get them on
this path to success.
There is no more.
What you didn't know, no, guys,I'm talking.
We have papers, like stacks ofthem.
(52:51):
Now there is and we're creatingvideos for our marketing
program, which I thought was agreat idea for our onboarding
and our implementing.
If you guys don't know, I psycondoes a uh youtube channel.
We do double uploads a week andbring you behind the scenes of
exactly what the company isdoing for, not just for you guys
, but for our customers andeverybody to see.
(53:12):
So I guess I kind of lost mytrain of thought there.
But, um, what was I saying?
Training videos?
Oh, that's exactly what I'msaying.
Editors, help me out there,sorry.
So through that youtube programuh will is selena's, giving us a
small list of generic stuff,because, as the entrepreneur or
(53:35):
the ops manager, you're so faroff in the weeds you're like I
don't know what to give them.
Well, how about ppe sigh?
And I'm like, oh yeah, like,let's us two minute video of
this is what's required from mein a video.
I don't have to stand thereevery time, but this I'm telling
you.
So when I show up for the firsttime and they see me on a job,
they're like oh, that dude,that's the dude that told me
(53:56):
that I gotta have my hard hat on, but I get my hammer hard hat
on, which we don't play thatgame here.
We wear art hats, but anyways,it's the small things like that
that stacks the compounds.
But what would you say in theoverall grand scheme of things,
from the project managementlevel is the?
(54:17):
I've talked about where tostart, but if you had one
section of it that is the mostimportant, could you narrow it
down to one thing?
um, I would think take your timeif you need the most important
would probably be Um teamdevelopment.
(54:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
What an answer.
You're not going to make anymoney if they can't do their job
properly, efficiently, in atimely manner.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
On schedule.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
I think, making sure that they have all the tools and
that they're trained on thosetools.
That's one of the things that Ithink I've been.
You know, and it's difficult.
That is one of the hardestthings working with your company
right now is trying to find thetime to spend with your guys to
(55:33):
train them, because the onlytime you can do that is when the
weather's bad yeah, especiallywhen the weather's been so bad
this year yeah, and it seemslike when we do think there's
going to be a weather day and weschedule it, then it doesn't
rain and then they need to beout working, so that's, that's a
struggle it is but it'simportant.
(55:55):
I mean, we have seen just inyour company what me sitting
with the guys for an hourtalking about schedules has done
with.
You know their use of buildertrend, that they were never
trained on how to use it and itwas never really part of their
job description that's right.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
And they, literally they were just what do you mean?
Now I gotta put the pipe in andthen talk about how what I did.
You know it's foreign, you know, and this software and all this
stuff and computers has onlybeen around for a couple of
decades.
You know, especially out therein the field.
I mean the last 15 years.
How long has iPads been around?
(56:37):
Maybe a decade.
You know what I mean.
This has all come on reallystrong and now it's all the way
on their phone and clocking itout on their phone.
Yeah, that's a totallydifferent subject for another
day.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I mean, how awesome was it Monday morning sitting
there seeing your twosuperintendents sitting in the
meeting with their iPads open.
They had their weekly reportpulled up.
They were engaged.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Very.
It was awesome Setting the tone, asking the questions, not me
going.
Hey, what do you think aboutthis this week?
What do you think about that?
Hey, we really gotta get oldjohnny knocked out.
You know he's really gonna beme, just didn't have any clue.
You know what do you put on them, how do you put it on them.
You know they need to be doingit, but you really don't know
(57:25):
how to get there for them.
Number one for you to keep yourpeople not piss them off.
But it's just exactly why folkslike you are needed in all
industries industries, and Iencourage hopefully um, I don't
(57:49):
think there's going to be manymale in this role just from the
attention to detail, because theamount of detail that you put
into this and care about thesmall details me and you guys
entrepreneurs, you're not goingto care like, like a lady like
miss shalina and her companydoes, because she's passionate
about it.
I've seen the passion, I'velived through the passion like,
literally like.
(58:10):
Why do you care so much aboutthis, michelina?
It's not that important like,but it is that important and you
have to see it.
You need somebody to hold youaccountable.
So I would encourage you guyswhere's the best place to find
4G on LinkedIn?
I would say LinkedIn, yep,that's the most professional
place to find anything.
But find Ms Jelena, reach outand maybe discuss a few things
(58:35):
and maybe she can point you inthe right direction and find her
there on LinkedIn.
But the last final question Iask everybody on this show yeah,
you were ready for this, youwere ready for this one.
She's watched a few episodes, Ithink, more or less to just get
in my head.
But what's a takeaway for theseblue-collar workers?
I don't care if it's the guyholding a shovel just walked on
(58:56):
job day one trying to figure outwhat this blue-collar life is
about, or it's a project manageron burnout and just so sick and
tired of dealing with thestress, emotionally, physically,
mentally, just stuck in the mud.
What are we saying to that guytoday?
Speaker 2 (59:16):
I've been that guy, good girl.
Um, I think, um, I think youare a really good example of
this, because you are willing tolearn and change and go through
the uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
Shame and embarrassment, yeah, like
literally.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
Like all of it.
Like you and I have had somereally uncomfortable
conversations Maybe not souncomfortable for me, but they
were really uncomfortable foryou and I think that is a great
quality, because if you arewilling to change, you are not
going to stay stuck.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Oh, you came prepared .
That is good, that's reallygood.
You actually you can alwaystell when folks have thought
about that answer and havelistened to an episode that if
you're willing to change, youcan stay stuck.
I think that's probably goingto be an infamous answer to that
, because you're right, you'renot stuck unless you stop.
(01:00:25):
As long as you don't stop andyou're always pressing forward
whether it's the wrong directionor not, just don't stand in the
middle of the road and get runover both ways.
Pick a lane.
It doesn't matter if it's thewrong lane, you pick the lane.
You're going to learn veryquickly if it's the wrong lane,
or you might learn it's theright lane.
Just make the dang decision andembrace change.
(01:00:49):
I would so encourage that, andthere's some people on my team
that didn't want to embrace thechange, and you know whether
they're here or not.
There's some folks that's stillhere, that are still having a
hard time embracing the changeand have got a little bit of a
rude awakening.
In the next 60, 90 days they'regoing to figure it out, huh.
So anyways, guys, I reallytruly hope you got to see a
(01:01:14):
little insight today from myperspective and what I've been
coming on this show and tellingyou guys that I've been working
on behind the scenes and Iwanted to bring the credibility
but also open up exactly 4G, thesame place that I'm having so
much success doing exactly whatwe're discussing today the
(01:01:38):
minute details that areimportant for your success and
your team's success and thedevelopment of your team.
You have to go find the rightperson and I will tell you, the
one I use is wonderful and Ireally appreciate all the work
you've put in over the first sixmonths of this year and I
cannot wait to see the benefitcompound and stack over the next
(01:01:58):
couple of years Because whenthat operations manager does get
a hold of these systems, a goodone's going to be excited
because he gets to still moldthem and shape them and I'm
really excited to see them takeoff and run.
With what we've done and I'mglad I got it done in year nine
Like most of the bad stuff iskind of over.
You know what I mean, don't getme wrong.
There's still things that we'regoing to deal with and have
(01:02:20):
hard conversations, but like themost of the research and like
having to tell all the nitty,nitty, nitty gritty is kind of
over with and it's encouragingfor me to keep moving forward.
You know, some of them weeks.
I wasn't looking forward asmuch to these meetings Okay, but
I know they need.
I knew for us to move forward,we had to, so thank you so much
for joining me today.
For us to move forward, we hadto, so thank you so much for
(01:02:43):
joining me today.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, guys, you can catch.
This is episode number 41.
I would love to know if anybodyhas actually listened to every
single episode all the way tothe end.
If you have, go ahead and reachinto the show.
I've got something specialbrewed up for episode number 50
(01:03:04):
coming at you guys.
Until then, check outbluecollarbusinesspodcastcom.
You'll check out all theepisodes completely free to
watch and to listen to straightfrom there.
Or, if you have a subscriptionon any of the podcast platforms,
make sure you drop us a followand a rating at the end of the
(01:03:24):
episode, which most of them makeyou do.
But I greatly appreciate it anduntil next time, you guys, you
guys be safe and be kind andwe'll see you on the next one.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like,
share it with the fellers.
Check out our website to sendus any questions and comments
about your experience in theblue collar business.
Who do you want to hear from?
(01:03:45):
Send them our way and we'll doour best to answer any questions
you may have.
Till next time, guys.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.