Ep. 58 - How GCs Win With Subs

Tired of hard-bid chaos and the “race to the bottom” that leaves everyone exhausted and underpaid? We sit down with Dylan Ream, regional manager at ARCO, to unpack how design-build flips the incentives so subs can profit, owners get clarity, and schedules stop bleeding. Dylan’s path, engineering grad to field-heavy project engineer to design-build PM, reveals why real-world problem solving beats perfect paper and how continuity from kickoff to closeout (“cradle to key”) saves owners from painful handoffs.

We pull back the curtain on performance-based specs, true value engineering, and the simple shift that speeds decisions: call the installer first. When a switchgear delay threatened a delivery by eight months, the team tapped the electrician for solutions, checked code, and brought the engineer options instead of open-ended problems. That solution-first mindset runs throughout the conversation—subs are treated as experts, not line items. We also talk culture you can feel on site: core values that stick, superintendents empowered to enforce safety with anyone, and ongoing training that keeps PMs and supers aligned when markets get choppy.

Dylan shares the 83‑day downtown build that shaped his leadership and the question that changes everything in a crunch: “What do you need?” We get candid about go/no-go discipline, choosing owners who value collaboration, and guiding design early to avoid deep utilities, long lead traps, and spec dead-ends. For the tradesperson who’s curious but burnt out, there’s practical encouragement: ask better whys, learn across disciplines, and don’t be afraid of a smart leap, your best work may be on the other side of a different delivery model.

If this conversation helps you think differently about teaming with GCs, share it with a crew mate, hit follow, and leave a quick review so more builders can find it. Got a story where field knowledge saved a job? Tell us, we might feature it next.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business
Podcast, where we discuss therealest, rawest, most relevant
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(00:30):
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Welcome back to another episodeof the Blue Collar Business
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(01:17):
Business Podcast sent you.
They'll hook you guys up.
Guys, today we are venturing offinto we've been kind of all over
the place.
We've been talking a lot ofequipment here lately.
We've been um, you know, moretopical, high-level.
Yes, definitely some people thatare pioneering the market, but
we're gonna get back into thenitty-gritty of the uh

(01:39):
contractual commercial landtoday, not specifically
contracts, but a gentleman thatI have met coming into the area
here in our market in NorthwestArkansas area, and they we've
worked there's I'll let himspeak more on the plethora arms
of uh what we're gonna bespeaking about today, but he has

(02:00):
uh I don't know what the word isBravely, I think, came in under
the microphone gun today.
You guys know how I feel uhabout general contractors if
you've been a fan of the showfor very long.
Um there's really good ones outthere, and there's there's
terrible ones out there.
And uh the thing that reallysparked our first conversation

(02:21):
was me complaining and moaningand groaning about hey, I don't
want to work with any more GCs.
And he caught me.
But honestly, what he sharedwith me on that, it turned into
an hour and a half phone call.
I'm like, dude, I need to getyou on the podcast.
If you can just some of thevariations of the things that we
go through every day assubcontractors, they have seen,

(02:46):
warranted, and fixed, and putsystems and policies in place to
ensure that subs don't feel orget hung out and left to dry.
So I'm very excited to have theman, the myth, the legend, Dylan
Reem, regional manager at Arco.
Um, they are pushing super heavyinto northwest Arkansas.
You've been there since 2012.

(03:06):
Thank you so much for being onthe show, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Yeah, appreciate it.
Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Thank you, man.
Seriously, uh, thanks forgetting in the spotlight.
Let me put the guns on youtoday.
But I I've been really excitedabout this because general
contractors, just like the bluecollar world, get this stigma
about it.
For sure.
And my my first initial questionis how'd you get into the world?

(03:30):
Because that's that's the numberone thing I always want to know
about it.
I mean, most of us just fallinto this world, but you've been
here since 2012, man.
That's 13 plus years with onegeneral contractor.
Yeah, that's where I wanted youbehind this microphone.
Tell us how you got here.

SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
Yeah, so I'll start back at the Genesis.
I went to uh engineeringbackground, you know, Taylor
Ebrallah.
Have uh two engineering degreesfrom there.
Um, did some internships while Iwas there.
Obviously, I think a lot ofengineering students kind of do
that path as design focus,right?
Um, that's kind of what Ithought I was gonna do.

(04:06):
Got some internships at Modotand some of the other
construction arm type things.
Uh, found out really quicklylike this is way more
interesting to me than designis, but I also don't know if I
want to be on that side of thetable in that conversation,
probably more on the GC side.
Yeah.
Um so uh got out and uhgraduated in December of 10,

(04:29):
which was not a great job marketfor those of you in the around
for that fun time.
Um, but ironically, when privatespending goes down, government
spending goes up.
Yep.
So I got a job doing mostlyhorizontal construction, uh,
roadways, bridges, dams, uh coreof engineer type really, that
was the government spending sidewho were doing projects back in

(04:51):
10, 11, 12.
Uh so did that for a few years.
Great time, learned a tremendousamount of information, was on
site mostly.
We were uh uh an open marketshop.
So we were just as a I was aproject engineer, but in
reality, it was uh you are hereto get the job done, right?
So it was some blue color rows,yeah, finishing concrete,

(05:15):
building forms, like whatever ittook, we got it done.
And so um, great, greatexperience, a lot of knowledge,
learned a tremendous amount ofhow to build things.
They don't teach you that inschool.
No, you can't learn that in asetting of the like uh an
academic setting.
So got a lot of information fromthat.
Kind of interestingly enough, Ihad interviewed with Arco in

(05:37):
college, but because of theeconomy, they weren't hiring.
Uh somehow I was working in myother job.
I got a phone call from arecruiter who had actually
called my old cell phone numberthat was on my resume from
college that now my brother hadinherited um when I started my

(05:57):
career.
So um got this phone call fromher, asked, Hey, we are now
interested in looking to hiresomebody, see you're still in
construction.
Would you still be interested inworking for us?
Came in, did an interview, anduh came on board Labor Day of
2012 and haven't looked back.
Don't regret a second notice ofit.

SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
My question, real quick, how'd they contact you
back then?

SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Yeah, it was again, it was kind of a so so they uh
so they had my resume fromcollege, which had my college
cell phone number.
Got it.
When I got out of school, uh,which was probably, if I'm
thinking now, for those of youof that age, I was probably a
razor.
Yeah, come on, let's talk aboutit.
T9 texting real fast, you know,nine nine nine nine.

(06:42):
Yeah.
Uh and I still to this day, whenthey called it, my brother
picked up.
I as as much as we fought, Imean, we're brothers, right?
So, like as much as we foughtgrowing up, how or why he said,
I think you're trying to get ahold of my brother, let me give
you his new survey.
Oh man, that's soaking.
He did, and they called me, andit was it was a very like
special circumstances becauseI'm I'm surveying on a riverbank

(07:06):
in August.
I'm sweating through thrustshere, and I'm sitting there
thinking, I went to school forfour and a half years to do this
with my degree.
Like, what am I doing?
So uh yeah, it was very kind ofserendipitous about how all that
kind of came together.
It was such a cool story.
It was it was great.
It was is it worked out well.
I've like I said, been here eversince.

(07:28):
Um and I I've always beeninterested in the GC world more
than the design.
I thought, again, going intoschool, I think a lot of young
kids coming out of high school,going into engineering, you see
skyscrapers and bridges, andlike I'm gonna design something
really cool.
And I think that's a lot of whatthe early classes are showing
you is like design heavy things.

(07:49):
And we've noticed even going tolike U of A, where we recruit
from for our new projectmanagers, like in the world of
engineering specifically, a lotof people don't see project
management in construction as anavenue.
It's just not something thatthey know about, it's not
discussed, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
Yeah, it goes back to, and I talk about it on the
show all the time, is thatespecially when we were going
through school, there was thisgiant switch up that it if you
weren't going to college, if youweren't dealing with computers,
if you weren't doing any of thatavenue, this wasn't even a
possibility.
And and now we've created such agap.
I speak about it.

(08:24):
It's literally one of thereasons I started the show is to
highlight, no, we need projectmanagers and skilled project
managers that have gone throughinternships, that have sat there
and gone, no, this storm box iswrong because this is why, and
actually have an understanding,not going, hey, what's wrong out
there?
Concrete's misshaped, and youknow you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Exactly.
So we tell we tell everybody,especially from our internship
level and younger projectmanagement.
We particularly our business,the majority of our newer
project managers we will hirewill be engineer backgrounds.
And I tell all of them,regardless of discipline,
mechanical engineering,electrical, chemical, doesn't
matter what we're here to do andwhat we're looking for, someone

(09:04):
with critical thinking andproblem solving skills.
That's all we're after.
Like the engineering degree willteach you some of that and a lot
of that, but the constructionside, no one will teach you.
No, you you just have toexperience it.
As you've seen, and a lot ofpeople I think that listen to
the show know like it, you can'tsit in the classroom and learn
this stuff.
So I can teach you thosecomponents.
We can show you and bring you upto speed from that perspective.

(09:28):
But I need from a projectmanagement level, to your point,
someone who's going to be ableto accept the challenge and
problem solve it quickly withouthaving to just sit back and say,
I don't know what to do.
Can someone help me?
Yeah, yeah.
Durable thought.
Not to say we can't help, right?
We need a support, but at thesame token, you do have to kind
of have a little bit of thatambition and and and drive to

(09:51):
say, no, let me give it a shotand see what I can come up with.

SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
So you were at that project engineer, and you when I
assuming from the design comingfrom your resume, etc., they
they were like, oh, okay, thisguy's got an understanding of
design.
Um before we go too muchfurther, would you or would you
have not, now that you've been13 years in this industry after

(10:15):
college, would you have gone tocollege still?

SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
That's a good question.
And I I pause it's prestigiousthat you have, sir.
Yeah, yeah.
I I I would say um, because wehave this conversation
internally all the timeregarding again the critical
thinking and problem solving.
Yeah, our our intern right nowfrom U of A is smart kid, he's
he asked us as we had thosedifferent discussion points and
conversations of like his and Ithink his philosophical

(10:42):
question, which I think holdsreally true, is like, well, do
you think college teaches youthe critical thinking and
problem solving?
Or do you think that's like aninherent trait that a lot of
engineering students just kindof have by nature that they're
inquisitive, they're looking foran answer, you know, that kind
of thing.
And it does kind of make youstep back to think about it of
like, yeah, I I do feel like alot of us growing up had, you

(11:05):
know, through high school andyounger ages, kind of had that
already wiring predisposition,if you will, that I think you to
your point, I think schooldefinitely emphasized that and
and worked that muscle, if youwill, to try to help hone it in.
I think back to the originalquestion of would I still go to
school or not?

(11:26):
I think I personally would have,just because I I do just I enjoy
the challenge.
I look for the next step of thechallenge, if you will.
You utilized it.
Yeah, do I think it's necessary?
I don't think it's necessary.
Right.
Um, I think it's a benefit.
And I think from our perspectivetoo, as a as a GC world, um,

(11:48):
even regardless of what thediscipline might be, it does
show a certain level ofcommitment.
Yeah.
You know, to stick throughwhatever that may be during the
duration you're there.

SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Isn't it funny the things you that you look at on
resumes?
And I know we're getting alittle far off of topic here,
but that exact, you're exactlyright, is if I see a
construction management degree,yeah, they're probably not going
to be the most savvy boots onthe ground person yet.
Sure.
Are they willing to gain thatexperience and humble themselves

(12:21):
and understand that, yeah, youmay have a degree.
I think it's extra looking fromthe resume standpoint is people
that I go after, but I have beenburned where they have
construction management degree,and I meet them and I'm like,
you've got to be kidding me.
How did you?
I mean, it is what it is.
But at the same time, I say itall the time education's
expensive, but experience ispriceless.

(12:43):
And you can go get a a degree,but uh, we need our doctors, we
need our nurses, we we needengineers, we need architects.
But um, when you were speakingabout the engineering students,
they uh they must be differentthan the engineers we have
around here, brother, because uhI think that's what a lot of the
guys, ambitious, looking to findthe right answers from the
contractor's perspective.

(13:04):
I've got, you know, you as aproject manager going, hey Cy,
I've got this issue.
What are we doing about it?
Yeah.
And and I'm as a professional,you know what?
That is an issue.
I didn't see that.
I'm glad you did.
Here's my solution, A, B, or C.
Let's get it with the civilengineer.
Yeah.
And it may wait a little bit.
Although I I two hours after Ihad the problem in the intro to

(13:26):
me, here I am, solution A, B, C.
Hey, Mr.
Civil Engineer, please just giveme an answer.
Please just give me an answer.
And you wait a week.
Yeah.
And then you're like, hey man,where are we at?
Hey, dude, can you call a civilfor me?
And then all of a sudden, herewe go.
You know, and it doesn't alwayswork like that.
But no, I agree with you.
I think I think it does go backto a little bit of the personal

(13:47):
trait of having that ambitionbecause before I was an
entrepreneur, I knew in my mindI wanted to be an entrepreneur.
I had no idea what it was goingto take and the level of drive
and ambition, and I've had tolearn that.
No, don't get me wrong, it waswired.
I displayed it differentlyprior.
But no, man, back from movingfrom project to engineer, I just

(14:09):
wanted to highlight that realquick and moving into project
manager.
You've been in that role a longtime.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Over 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Tell us tell us how the transitional walk from
engineer up to manager, andyeah, tell us some horror
stories.

SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
Unfortunately, yeah, I got a lot of those uh over 10
years.
You're you're not wrong.
So I say, so again, kind oftying back to the previous work
that I did, heavy design, bid,build, very cannon spec.
You're gonna have a fully set,draw a full drawing set, a full
spec book that's 250 pages.

(14:45):
Yes, like there is no budging.
We will not, you know, when forsupplemental and for me, like
hard bid, race to the bottom,see how fast you can get there,
try to find the changes later,right?
Um, that's the world I startedin out of college.
And then with Arco and andspecifically the design build
model they have was what reallykind of had a lot of my interest

(15:06):
when I started the conversationswith them of coming to them
because to your point aboutdesign issues, design
challenges, I was seeingfirsthand in the field on a job
site.
Yeah, man.
How do we find this?
We in the field spend howeverlong try to find those
solutions, take it to theengineering team and/or the

(15:26):
ownership group and whoever thatmay be, for them to say, no, we
don't like that, we're gonna doit this way, or you know,
instead we're gonna like it, wewe'd rather this be like this.
So the the benefit I really sawfrom a design build component
perspective was thecollaboration that you're
talking about.
I think I you to your point ofthe design teams that can get

(15:47):
involved in that, like it it isa it does take particular
designers to be on board withthese conversations, right?
Like I try to tell design teamsif they if we're doing a design
assist or something that is nota true design build project,
like how we operate, right?
I try to preface a lot of thoseconversations with just like we
discussed of like, hey, thisthis is not me attacking your

(16:09):
design, right?
Look, I I know that what youhave on paper works looks
fantastic in two dimensions,right?
Uh once we put the third inthere, it gets really
challenging.
Oh, you might find someproblems.
And so I'm here, we are here,the subs, me, the GC, whoever
that that issue may be touching.

(16:29):
Like we're here to try to solvethe problem.
Yep.
And we're asking for you to bepart of that because once again,
you're the engineer of record,you're the designer.
We don't want you to feel leftout of this solution.
Um, but at the same token, we'rewe're gonna need you to play
along with us here to try tomake sure we can either stay on
schedule, find a readilyavailable product, whatever that

(16:50):
solution may look like in thegreen scene.

SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
No, one you hit that nail on the head.
It's it's it's a collab effort.
And I agree, design build, Iwould like to maybe hear more
about the design build as aproject manager because you you
probably caught a lot of guys'attention when you said race to
the bottom, hard bid, this iswhat it is, because that's 80%
of the market, right?

(17:12):
And and the sure in the 20%,another thing I say on the show
on the time on the show all thetime, guys.
It's been a long week.
I'm sorry, is that literallyrelationships are everything.
And in that 20% world is basedon relationships, not
necessarily how big or how fastyour company moves, is how you

(17:34):
react during mistakes,problematic scenarios, because
you're always going to run intothem and not standing in the
middle of the deadgum road,picking a lane, whether it's
right or wrong.
At least you're only getting runover one way if you are wrong.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But I know a lot of those guysare working for those companies,
and I will tell you straight up,SciCon, I'm we're nine, nine and

(17:56):
a half years in working on ourtent here, and uh I got caught
up in that because you don'tknow the difference.
There's not a resource that Iwas listening to, like a podcast
going, hey guys, don't get inbed with those guys.
They're gonna tell you about thenext job and the next job and
the next job.
But I'm talking about this job,homie.
Like I want this job to runsmooth.

(18:16):
I don't care about the next job.
We haven't even started thisfirst job.
Well, it's all about race to thebottom and price, price, price,
and then they want it done asfast as humanly possible.
Well, you can't have cheap andfast, and yeah, it's it's two
now three.
Exactly.
And I missed one there, butyeah, the old adage.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
But yeah, I I think to your point of the design
build world, what always speaksto me is the fact that we we
approach every project with themindset, like you mentioned, is
we're gonna build this teamaround us that we feel has the
best chance of succeeding at theend goal, right?
Which is on time, yeah, theirbudget, safely.
And those are the three bigthings that we shoot for on

(18:57):
every project that we have, thatit's really difficult in the
what I'll call plan and specworld, right?
And and how that is historicallyoperated, just because you have
a very confined set of rules,right?
You have a drawing set, you havea spec book that like that these
are the only things that you canreally price.

(19:19):
And then at some level, itbecomes a game of who feels like
they can be the most aggressiveon production raise or who made
the biggest mistake and is gonnafind out about it down the road,
right?
Um, and so that's that's theworld that really because in the
end of the day, in our in ourmind from a general contracting
perspective, we do notself-perform our own work, we

(19:43):
subcontract all the work outunderneath us.
So our messaging from ourinternal trainings and
everything like that isconstantly you will be as
successful as your subs are.
That's right.
If your subs are not happy, ifthey are not making money, if
they are not successful, theywill not bid to you, and then
you will not get theirparticipation being forward,

(20:04):
right?
And so um yeah, I I also want tomake sure to clarify like that
doesn't mean I think we take astep back and don't have
accountability.
That's right.
Like accountability alwaysexists in that world, but it's
definitely a different scenariowhere, like, for instance, our
spec books that we'll puttogether on a design build
project, they're gonna be ninetimes out of ten.

(20:25):
Sometimes it isn't, but ninetimes out of ten, it's
performance-based.
You bet it I don't care um, youknow, what brand this is, I need
it to meet these performancespecifications.
And as long as it is codecompliant, we're not going to be
a stickler on what the stamp onthe name of the nameplate is.
That's right.
Um, and we feel like that allowsa lot of again, collaboration

(20:49):
and in problem solving as wellas from a design perspective,
getting interest and buy-in fromthose that are involved early on
to say, like, hey, again, from aI think of like a site
perspective, right?
Like, if we find out, becausedesigners and engineers,
architects aren't involved inthe market as much as everyone.

SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
What?
Wait a minute.
So you mean the engineer'sestimate starting off on the job
that they give initially to thecustomer, I shouldn't have to
adhere to that every time?

SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
What shattering info you're gonna say that, I think
there's a lot of times where youcan have scenarios, especially
as we saw through COVID and thepost-COVID market volatility of
product availability, productcost implications, things that
are having like direct in youknow, direct impacts to jobs

(21:38):
that a spec book that's beencopy and pasted from five years
ago or 20.
Or 20 or more that says we wantthis specific pipe material for
our sanitary line that us in themarket today know, hey, we don't
even make it.
Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah,it's not even available.
I can't get it.
This is what that looks likeinstead.
Can I price that differently?

(21:59):
Or or you know, I I go back to Ithink of specifically in COVID
one huge issue that I got run upon on a project I was doing with
the the switch gear and the hugeback order of switch gear.
Transformers, everything like wewe were literally six weeks away
from receiving our switch gearon a job that I got an email on
saying it was gonna be eightmonths.
And we were supposed to be knownin a language right, so um you

(22:23):
know, it in those moments,having the the team with you
from a subcontractor executionknowledge base perspective of
like, okay, here's our problem,but how can we solve this?
Right.
I think a lot of times on theproject management side, we we
try to teach them, you know,utilize the resources that you
have, which is thesubcontractors you've hired for

(22:45):
their expertise in the fieldthat they're performing, right?
That like I don't need to myfirst call should not be to the
electrical engineer.
No, the first call is to theelectrician that I've hired to
say, okay, you do this for aliving, you know how this goes
together.

SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
I hired you to be a professional, give me an
opinion.

SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
Yes, this is our issue.
How do how what would you bedoing?
Yeah, how can we troubleshootthis from here?
Because in my world of designbill, we want to bring solutions
to the design team and not justgo to the design team with a
problem.
We all know the solutions comeback and how that can continue
to either A extend the durationof that time that it takes to

(23:22):
resolve the problem, yeah, or B,uh can increase cost to a point
where it becomes veryfinancially challenging.
Right.
So like we try to be very uhresponsive on our end of saying,
okay, to solve this issue, we'vereached out to those that will
be doing the work, right?
And ask them their thoughts andopinions on how we think we can

(23:43):
do that.
Now, have I passed that I stillwant to engage the design team
you have to want to make sureit's code compliant, but it's
not, yeah, not something herethat I'm missing or that we
don't know that it needs tocomply with.
But at the end of the day, I tryto tell owners and design teams
alike like if if this issue withthe switch gear is being solved

(24:04):
with what I would call anon-design solution, right?
If there's a problem that comesup down the line from this, the
owner's not calling thedesigner.
He his first calls to me, andthen my first calls to the guy
that did it.
I'm calling Sakatan and saying,You got a problem.
Can you come out and look at it?
So I try to tell owners anddesigners again, the intention

(24:27):
is not for us to you knowcircumnavigate their
involvement, but it's reallymore of those that are coming up
with these solutions in thedesign build world are the guys
that are owning it long term inthe at the end anyway.
Yeah, that we have to trust thatthey're not gonna provide us of
a subpar solution when they knowin six months if it blows up on
them, you're calling themanybody.

(24:49):
There's a warranty letter in thecommercial world and it's uh
yeah, I found out the hard way.
It's fair psych, a lot of psych.
Yeah, it is.
So I we we try to always havethe subs involved in that
process because of that exactissue.
That at the end of the day, ifthis product that we're all
we're talking about usingdoesn't perform, they're never
calling the designers to comefix that issue.

(25:10):
They're calling us, who's thencalling the sub that did work.
So at the end of the day, ifthey're going to be owning it, I
don't know why we wouldn't havethem part of that process to be
able to then find the solutionthat it sounds so simple, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
I mean, like, I know it's earth-shattering to some of
these guys.
Some of these guys are likescreaming at the radio, like,
yes, my God, just what I cannotstand is hey guys, got a
problem.
This is, you know, kind of whatI was thinking, solution-wise,
do you want something drawn up?
No, we'll get with the civil.
He'll he'll reach out to you.

(25:43):
Thanks.
Yeah, that's what I can't stand.
And that is against what we werejust talking about,
collaboration, bringing a teamtogether.
But yeah, you hit such a goodpoint, dude.
Two things.
First thing, don't bring thedesign team problems because
they're we got to be thesolution team.
We just need their agreements tomake sure we are within their
guidelines and parameters thatwe are contractually bound to.

(26:07):
So, okay, cool.
But that that goes for the fieldteam too.
Back to the project managers.
You know, if you're trying, ifyou're going to your ops guy or
you're seeing your projectmanager and go, man, I don't
we've got all this going on, Idon't know what to do.
That's not gonna get you veryfar in life.
I'll just tell you that rightnow.
Hey, uh waterline guy up front,a utility sub, he's got a

(26:28):
hydrant that is in conflict withthis.
Uh over here, the electriciansinvolved, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And these are my solutions.
What do you think within yourguidelines?
No, I really like how you dealtwith that.
This, let's check withso-and-so, and and and and get
the subs on the phone.
Let's talk about this.
Just the collaboration of it.
Because you're the second pointI want to hit home is I don't

(26:50):
want to freaking leave you a badproduct because I'm gonna have
to fix it.
And like, I especially in theutility world, 90% of the time
it's bonded if you're doingpublic infrastructure.
So it's like, well, not justyou, but I've got a city entity
that I've been working with forthe past 10 years.
I don't want them to come outand go, who put that in the
ground?
This day blew out, and thankGod, you know, we haven't had

(27:12):
anything like that whatsoever.
But yeah, why to the it's more,I guess, to the racing to the
bottom GC hard-bed world.
And and that's what I want totry and drive home with you guys
today, is that they're just likethere's dirt and pipe guys, but
we all call each otherexcavation, right?
There, we have professional umguidelines that we stay in.

(27:35):
I know pipe, but I also knowdirt.
But pipe is my game in and out.
You'll meet another guy justlike me, excavation utility guy,
and dirt is his game.
Yeah, and he does a little bitof pipe where he brings somebody
that has the pipe.
Same deal in the GC world, notjust the GC world, design world,
architect world.
There is people that want towork as a team to meet a

(27:57):
schedule and meet a budget, andthere are people that just want
to do a project.
Yes, 100%.
And that's what I'm trying tohammer on here.

SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
And there's there's that transactional mindset,
right?
Of just I'm uh we I again I willsay like that's why for us a lot
of times there's certain producttypes we I wouldn't say don't
perform, but probably don'tcontinue to like pursue heavily.
Yeah, those are usually like inwhat I call like institutional
work, and that's you know,government agencies.

(28:24):
I say like cord engineersearlier, or do uh DOD work, like
again, entities that again, notsaying 100%, but historically
have been very plan and spec,yeah, very, very design, bid,
build, where it it's verytransactional, right?
Just like you said, like we'rehere to do this, we've hired you
to do this, and that is yourlane, and you stay in that lane.

(28:46):
If there's an issue with thedesign, we will then have the
designer solve it.
Yeah, we don't need your help.
Um, and it's a different animal,you know, from a GC side, like
how those GCs operate and whattheir typical day-to-day looks
like compared to a design build,where from our perspective, our
process, we have our projectmanagers doing a hundred percent
of the work.

(29:06):
I I've coined the first likecradle the key, right?
So, like our guys are and galsare in the first meeting with
the owner.
It's how like thinking to themof like, okay, what is it you
need?
What does your facility havelook like?
What is it you're trying toachieve?
Then we're managing the designprocess right alongside with
them and the design team.
Then we're our project managersare estimating it, they're

(29:27):
buying it out, they're awardingsubcontracts, and I say that
from an owner's perspective.

SPEAKER_01 (29:31):
Or collaborating and getting VE options, saving the
owners' money while hopefullymaking the sub's life easier and
changing the design up pre-likethat's a huge piece.

SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
100%.
I'm glad you said it becausethat's I'd be that's a lot of
what we've been doing lately,especially when yeah, economies
are starting to get tougher,jobs are starting to tougher,
get tougher to go, you know, atin just today's general
marketplace where you you reallyrely on here's a set of
information, here's a set of biddocuments, but we are all ears
for For things you see becauseyou are the expert on how to do

(30:03):
your job, that hey, if youchange this one detail or if you
change this one spec, we cansave X amount of dollars.
All those options are part ofthe discussion because we don't
want to, again, bring somethingback to an owner and say, You're
10% over budget.
What do you want to do?
The only thing you can do isdelete square footage when there
are levers, levers, excuse me,that are available for us to

(30:27):
find some of those cost savingsthat don't sacrifice the overall
design intent, but could maybetake some tweaks here, there,
and in between to get you thatgap that you're seeing the day.

SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
And I know there's guys out there that have done
just like me and Dylan in thefront offices and got a hard bed
date, got a set of plans, got aset of specs, they're an
out-of-town developer, they'recoming through, and they've got
their same engineer that's drawn85 of these projects this year,
and you're looking at this andgoing, I'm gonna send over an

(30:58):
egregious price because likewhat you're bidding here, hey,
and you can send all the RFIsyou want, they're unresponded,
right?
You know, and and hey guys, haveyou looked at this?
Hey guys, have you looked atthis?
If we could get this approved,but they don't have the time.
Yeah, they don't have the timeto go back and VE anything,
they're just gonna ramrodthrough the project exactly how
that design and spec is.

(31:19):
Material type may not even bethe same connotation of what's
going in the ground or in thewall or vertical or whatever it
may be.
But I'm just letting you guysknow there is two different
types.
This design build model is Ihave wasted hundreds, if not
thousands, of hours between myme, Dylan, and anybody up in the

(31:41):
front of the house trying tofind solutions for those hard
bids and never understanding whythey wouldn't spark on them.
Well, it took me some yearsthrough experience of figuring
out, oh, you don't care.
Yeah.
Because you're just transaction,okay, cool.
Another project, okay, cool.
Over here, I am I love thecradle to key method.

(32:05):
That that are I guess justsaying in general, because I
I've got projects that are havebeen in talks for almost two
years at this point that I amalmost 90% CDs and and literally
helping the engineer draw it.
Hey, keep the water line out ofthe road.
We need 10-foot separation, butif you put sewer here, water
here, we cover all services andkeep the owner from having to

(32:27):
spend 10-foot deep full basecombaction backfill on 2,000
foot of sewer line.
Yeah, it's things like that thatpeople they just pick their
engineer, draw me this picture,here's my piece of land.
Yeah, we don't want you asinvolved, but bring a contractor
in as soon as possible,especially from the design build
model, so they can not only havetheir project manager that's

(32:50):
going to be doing the dang job,is going to be back here in the
design part.
Come on, man.
Come on.

SPEAKER_00 (32:58):
That's a key thing that I try to tell a lot of
clients and owners that we'veworked with in the past of like,
again, our structure is a littledifferent than some GCs, where
there's some GCs that have likea procurement group, yeah, or a
pre-construction group.
Yeah.
Like they do they they do theirjobs very well of doing the
pre-construction portion.
But what we have found in theyou know, the 30 some odd years

(33:21):
this company has been inbusiness, wow, man, um, that
what we were finding time andtime again were clients, which
at this point were up to likeabout 75% of our repeat clients.
And and for that reason isbecause they were getting so
frustrated with the process ofgetting to a job, getting
halfway through a job, having aproblem, and then going to a

(33:41):
meeting and the and the per andthe PM in the office is saying,
Well, I know you've got thisissue, but Jimmy was with
pre-construction.
You be you need to call Jimmy,right?
Like, I'm sure again, anybodythat's listening to this has
probably dealt with that in anyin some form of their life,
right?
Of a sales team and an executionteam.
Yeah, then it's a push and pullof like, well, well, he told me

(34:04):
this or they told me this, butthat's not what's happening
right now.
Well, then you need to callthem.
I'm just the guy who's out heredoing it, right?
Oh, and so there can't beanything that's as infuriating
as that kind of circumstance.
So we try to maintain thatcontinuity for that exact reason
to make sure that the people, asyou said, like the people that

(34:25):
are doing the work are the onesthat were there in the design
process, they were there in thedesign.
Like they heard, I don't knowhow many times in c and projects
I've done where we've heardthings come up of like, you
know, a sub or someone who's asuperintendent who wasn't there
during the design, of somethinglike, hey, why are we doing it
this way?
This doesn't make sense.
Oh, well, here, let me explainto you.

(34:46):
Because in the design process,they said this, and this is why
we're doing, oh, that all addsup, right?
Like, and to your point, fromlike a VE perspective, it's
really powerful for us in theconversations with subs to
provide them information andsay, Hey, I need a price to do
this work.
But just so you know, right,we've already had these
conversations on the designside, like the plate glass

(35:08):
mirrors cannot change.
Like, don't bother.
We've already ran the rails.
Like, we've we've gone down thatpath, we've had that
conversation with the owner,they are not budging.
Don't bother trying to enterthat.
Again, from our perspective, themore efficient we can make
everybody from a resourceallocation perspective, a timing
perspective, like yes, I fullyunderstand this detail may be

(35:28):
very expensive, but this is why.
And maybe that could be a designcomponent, that could be an
owner preference component.
I think of one client that Iused to work with that is an
electrical supply house thatobviously is tied with certain
individual companies that theyprovide information for.
So when we are products for, sowhen we would go build their
facilities, we would typicallyuse all of their stuff.

(35:50):
Right.
And so then one of the projectswe did, I think it was in like
California, the sub came to usand was like, hey, if you used a
different product, we could saveyou like 15, 20, whatever that
number was.

SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
Totally appreciate that.
Definitely understand it.
For these reasons, we aren't,but I do appreciate you bringing
that to our attention.
Yeah, that like again, that'sthe kind of thing from a GC's
perspective that is invaluablefrom a from a subcontractor that
you're gonna want to keepworking with.
Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
That's a big piece of it.
No, for sure, for sure.
Stretching gears just a littlebit on you.
I want to know over the lastdecade as a project manager,
what's that one job?
Yeah.
I want to know the one job.
It can be the good job or thebad job that turned into the
good job or just bad, and ittaught you so much.
But that has we always have thatone job.
If I know I've got one job thatcomes immediately to mind that

(36:42):
shaped me as a leader, as nowyou're walking into this
regional manager role.
Talk about that one or two jobsor whatever it may be that kind
of really shaped you as aleader.

SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Now that's a good question I get a lot of times
too from like younger projectmanagers, it's similar to like,
what's your favorite, what'syour favorite project you worked
on?
And I uh my response I thinksurprises a lot of them because
I've done some really cool stuffin my years, but the one project
to your point of just like whyit's so near and dear to my
heart, it was probably three orfour years into our working with

(37:16):
Arco.
I was still kind of figuring outthe design build stuff coming
from the plan and spec world, alittle bit of a transition.
And we were working on a projectin downtown St.
Louis on the ninth floor of ahigh-rise building that was
16,000 square foot office thatwe were completely gutting and
rebuilding in 83 days.

(37:39):
And I know, and and when wefirst got the RFP on it, uh, the
client uh who we knew from otherdealings that we've done in the
past, there was a propertymanagement group that uh was a
construction arm, smallconstruction that owned and
operated the maintenance of thatbuilding.
My immediate question was like,Well, why aren't you talking to

(38:01):
these guys?
Why am I getting this phonecall?
Like, they're very capablepeople, why don't you have them
do it?
And they said, Well, they saidthat you can't do the schedule,
this the schedule doesn't work.
And so our group, probablyegotistically, right, was like,
Well, the gauntlet's beenthrown.
We're gonna make this jobhappen.
And at that I've been there,yeah, three, four years into my
career at this company.

(38:22):
I'm working side by side, yeah,with a uh also I'm gonna say
still to this day, my favoriteone of my favorite people in the
world, but uh a crustysuperintendent.
Everybody who's listening tothis is probably picturing the
exact person I'm talking about.
Um and obviously veryintimidated.
This guy knows way more aboutthis than I do.

(38:44):
I I'm bidding it.
We bid it, we get a contract, weget off to the races, and he
shows up, and it would I'd saythe stereotypical first day
walkthrough, right?
Like, are you out of your mind?
There is no way, right?
On and on and on.
And so um, I mean, it was a itwas brutal.
Like I we were counting minutesand seconds of every day,

(39:07):
inspections and material, longlead time, material delivery of
mill work and doors and like allthese things that were just like
high stress, high anxiety,superintendent that you know
wants to at every turn remind methat he told me so, right?
That anytime we're gonna do aproblem, but to his credit, very
on board.
How can I help?
What can I do?

(39:28):
And I I think that's what alwaysalways resonated for me in that
in that project.
By the way, when we we made it,everything went good, like it
was it was crazy.
But the one thing that alwaysresonated with him that I still
kind of try to use to this dayis he would never ask, like if I
came in, I was like, Man, thisissue came up, like did the the
millwork got back, or thiswhatever happened, right?

(39:48):
I got this problem.
And he would never say, like,well, how can I help?
You know, he'd say, What do youneed?
Yeah, like that was always hisquestion.
What do you need?
Like, because he may not be ableto do that, right?
But like in that moment, it gaveyou a sense of like having to
just slow down, yeah, take thebreath of like, okay, well,
that's a good question.

(40:08):
I like if you asked how can Ihelp, I'd say, I don't know, let
me think about it.
Yeah, I'd move on with my day.
But what he'd say, well, what doyou need?
I'd have to kind of sit back andthink, like, okay, dissect it
and go, all right, well, I Ineed this and this, so you call
that guy, and I'll call thisguy, and then we move on.
And and it kind of always gaveyou that moment of pause of like

(40:29):
reflecting on the issue,dissecting the information, and
then finding the path forward tobe like, okay, this is how we
can get from A to B.
And again, he and I continued, Idid more work with him than any
of our other superintendents,just really happenstance.
We just kept hopping to the nextjog with each other, and he was
phenomenal.
And I learned so much from him.
Um, and it did ever grateful forwhat he taught me.

(40:52):
Um, but he always, like I said,I always appreciated his kind of
like air, again, uh not likeconfidence, but like experience
talking directly to you.

SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
Hey, and what and once and once you get with that
crusty superintendent, we callhim the old head in the in the
civil world, you know, you know,the hard hat throwing, you know,
they'll teach you so muchwithout you ever even being
knowing that you're beingtaught.

SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
100%.

SPEAKER_01 (41:20):
And you know, what do you need?
Well, he probably has aconnotation of a clue of what
you need with the problem thatyou just vented on him.
But what do you need?
What's your first move?
How that is, how can I help?
Just tell me, yeah, good cop,bad cop scenario.
Hey, I'll call this person, youcall this person, let's get the
information and move forward,whatever it may be.
But no, that's that's reallycool that you're that you gave

(41:42):
him a shout out because man,there's so many people on these
projects that have taught me somuch.
Project managers like yourself,but I can't tell you how many
other times that I've heard inthe field, oh, this young PM, oh
God, this and superintendentsthat have been doing this for 30
years, but that PM won't openhis ears up.

(42:03):
And or, you know, hey, oh, it'sJohnny out there, he's been in
his 25 years.
I'm gonna go over here and hitgolf three more times, you know,
in this project, because ithappens every day and leave him
out there high to dry.
So, but there is such a, youknow, the younger generation,
man.
That's what I'm very focused onin landing in the project

(42:24):
manager world.
Look at yourself, you're anactual inspiration, come out of
college.
Hey, you know what, I have thiscollege degree, but probably
gonna have to finish someconcrete and run some wire and
do a bunch of crap that I don'twant to do to gain the respect
of the peers that have beendoing this for 10 years before I
got here with or without mydegree.
And let's see if I can keepgoing.

(42:44):
And now you're working your wayall the way up into our neck of
the woods.
Are you living here now?

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
Yeah, we are.
We moved in the day of thetornado last year.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, moved in about a littleyear ago.
Uh, no, no issue, no problemsfrom our end of where we're at.
But uh, but yeah, we lived inSt.
Louis.
Uh the group I worked for beforeis out of Columbia, Missouri.
So we go to Columbia, Missourifor a few years, moved to St.
Louis, lived in St.
Louis for about 12 years, andthen last May was when we moved

(43:14):
down uh to northwest Arkansas.
So family and everybody's here.

SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Building the office, getting things going.

SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
Yeah, I got a uh project manager there now,
full-time.
We've got an intern uh that's inthere now and looking to
continue to expand as quickly aswe can, right?
In the sense of workload andmake sure we don't overextend
ourselves into a circumstancewhere we have people that aren't
working on something.
But yeah, it's obviously a very,as anyone in this area would

(43:42):
attest to, a very growingmarket, a very busy market.
Um you know, I think ourintention obviously is to one
thing we really saw that wewanted to try to bring to this
area was kind of how we like togo about general contracting.
I think that was one thing thatwe I don't want to say saw
lacking in this area, but saw anopportunity from perspective to,

(44:04):
you know, I'd I'd say us as abusiness, we're in 51 cities,
coast to coast, one in Toronto.
Hey man, Canuckies hollering atyou today.
Shout out one up in Toronto, souh, and that's what's created
the growth, right?
Of like to your point, of thethere's different kinds of GCs
that do things differently.
And I'd say the like we have avery proven track record of you

(44:28):
can be successful doing businessthis way, right?
Like, this is not a one-waystreet only, and you you've just
again transactional, they'rehere to do a job and then
they're off.
Like there we have multiple,multiple examples of why this
model works, and we've been ableto make it grow time and time
and time again.
When I started with the company,we were in six offices in the

(44:51):
United States as far as we wentwas Kansas City, and uh that's
rapid growth, yeah, dude.
Well, if you were yeah, likelate teens was when you saw the
boom.
I mean, it was like well, 17,18, 19, we were uh you were
getting like 10 offices a yeargetting announced, like one
after another after anotherafter another.
So yeah, there's a again, Ithink there was just a huge part

(45:13):
of us that kept consistentlyseeing like positive scenarios
when we can take this on theroad to other locations and show
a different market that this ishow we can do work, this is how
the work can be done, and it'ssomething that makes sense from
top bottom, right?
It's we're all successful ifeverybody in the ladder is
successful.
Yes, and the more we can propeach other up and support each

(45:37):
other, the better we're allgonna be at the end of the day.
That doesn't have to be at thedetriment of, from a client's
perspective, a contract value,or from a GC's perspective of a
sub's change order tallies,yeah, or from a sub's
perspective of getting stuckwith a bunch of extra cough up,
right?
So um, we hope to try to make itenjoyable for all so that way we

(45:57):
can continue to keep repeatingthat process.
That's the intention.

SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
No, dude, I I think it's it's it's kind of actually
astonishing if you think aboutit.
I thought you guys were a littlebit older than that.
I mean, 30 years and being in 51something cities, that's uh
pretty crazy, man.
Yeah.
But no, this market here, veryinteresting market, no doubt
about it.
A lot of um, I don't know whatthe word is, uh local uh economy

(46:24):
helpers, let's put it that wayin our local area.
But man, in the last 18 months,pillars is a that's a great
word.
They are and because we aredefinitely, if you've if you've
never been here, guys, northwestArkansas is just this little
bubble.
You guys think of Arkansas andyou're like, La Delta, uh you
shoot any ducks?
Well, we're up here in thehills, yeah.

(46:44):
You know, the delta's out east,or you think Little Rock, but
beautiful little area up here inthe, you know, the foothills of
the Ozarks, and it's justbeautiful, but it's it's
definitely growing to something.
I moved uh in from Canada in2001, and I can still think of
places that I'm like, this rightwhere we're sitting, this entire

(47:06):
hillside, we helped on justabout everything on this
hillside.
Track to track goes down thesehills, anyways, but it was
insane.
And that boom 16, 17, 18, 19,you know, before pre-COVID was
insane.
I can imagine.
It really was.
And it just seeing from thecivil perspective what's coming

(47:26):
in the next year or two, we havebeen in a major lull.
There's no doubt about it.
Uh and and I'm I was on thephone with uh Estimating Takeoff
Service.
Uh, shout out Ben Brunei at uhPay Dirt Estimating just quickly
there.
Um, but I was on the phone withhim and he's like, hey man,
we're we're gonna be pushinginto marketing a little bit.
You know, I've seen the marketkind of really, you know, draw

(47:48):
up.
I mean, I think we can all talkabout the several different
variables of what's going on inthat, but that's not where I'm
going with that.
You hit it on the head whenprivate spending comes down,
government spending comes up.
And yeah, that is there's nobetter truth to that.
But you have to be ready to makethat jump on the government

(48:08):
side.
When you're set up in theprivate development space, it's
real hard to just yeah, they'rethey're different worlds.
It's for two totally differentworlds.
So I wanted to highlight thatearlier when you said that.
But in the last 18, 20, I'd saythe last 12 months for sure, we
have been declining on uh bidinvites.
There was some big you knowspikes to this year, but man,

(48:31):
the fluidity flow of the normalarea, and I I I have a feeling
we're seeing that in a lot ofplaces and in and many markets,
but um I'm excited to watch youguys bring this design build to
this area.
Don't get me wrong, there aresome other larger GCs in the
area area that do very great umwith with this model, but the

(48:53):
way you guys do it, I haveexperienced uh one of y'all's
first contracts here.
We didn't have much on it.
We weren't the full utilitypackage or anything, but we had
three or four buildings uh withyou guys doing some underground,
etc.
And just the level of care, likethere was a major problem they
had that I fixed for them.

(49:14):
They didn't know I could fix forthem, yeah, but I could tell the
way it wasn't uh, hey, you'regonna do this, but and um, you
know, most of the time you'relike, what project is this?
You know, like this was sixmonths ago, whatever.
Yeah, but they were new to town.
They didn't really to the pointof where I'm going with this, is
they leaned on me, man.

(49:34):
Yeah, a guy, uh I I assume Idon't quite remember his uh his
name.
He was the regional guy, came upfrom St.
Louis, but he'd been here acouple of days, yeah, and he
started leaning on hisresources.
He's like, Look, I've got someproblems.
I'm calling my subs that arekind of in this area.
Can you help me with this?
Yeah, I know the city reallywell here.
Let me let me give a ring overat the water department.

(49:56):
Let me let me call the civil,let me get some information,
collab back to you, and let'ssee where this is at.
Yeah, and he man, I appreciatethat.
And it just worked, everythingworked out really, really well,
but diligently he stayed on meand I I stayed on the on the
solution.
And but I I can attest to that.
We've done just a a little bitof work together, hoping to do
some more um as you move intowhat I believe is going to be

(50:20):
another pretty good little spikeof work here, October, November.
Thank God for the Fed cut lastyear.

SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of promise,
promising stuff that's comingout of the last week or so.
Yeah.
That's gonna help, I think, youknow, move things.
I think a lot of it's thestability, right?
Of just like knowing this is thetrajectory and this is kind of
what we can expect.
That piece has been missing fora while that I think's caused a
lot of anxieties the market.
So I agree.
I I think we'll start seeingsome stuff and lose.

SPEAKER_01 (50:48):
It's just been crazy, man.
But um, this area has been soprotected locally and to be in
is you know, the last 10 years,I didn't live, I graduated high
school in 2009.
Yeah, so I came out to a prettyjobless market, like it was it
was since incredibly tough.
But um, you know, Arco is 100%known for its culture too.

(51:14):
I have heard I have every singlemeeting, every phone call, I
can't tell you that I have beenspoke spoken to nothing but with
grace and uh directness, but Imean direct to the problem.
Can you help me?
Can you not?
But how it's it's not about whatyou say, it's how you say it.

(51:36):
Yeah, a lot of times, you knowwhat I mean?
You can ask me the same thingthree different ways, and about
one, well, the only there's onlyone way you're gonna get me to
do anything.
You know what I mean?
And GCs have that, oh, you'regonna do what I say.
And sure, but talk a little bitabout Arcos culture, man.

SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
Yeah, I mean, I think we've built uh I mean
again, I go back to like havingcome from a different world,
coming into this world, peopleask me like again, what's kept
me here?
And the the the cheesy butaccurate answer is always the
the people and the culture,right?
And that's because we we reallydo see of again the from a
top-down mentality within thebusiness, like people, as long

(52:16):
as people are going to be happyand successful, then you are
going to get their maximumeffort.
Yep, right.
And I feel like that samementality which is used on
internal associates to us as abusiness, is the same projection
we try to put out towards oursubcontractors and our vendors
that we work with, right?
Again, you will you will be ableto get people to buy into the

(52:38):
process, to buy into thecollaboration, to be part of
something that's going to besuccessful as long as that they
feel that same mindset, right?
Of again, how can we help you?
What is it that we can be doing?
You know, short of obviouslyeverybody saying, cut me a check
and I'll be good.
But like in the sense of I Ikeep I kind of keep continuing

(52:59):
to come back to like a a mindsetfrom a subcontractor community
of we want you to be assuccessful as we are, because
again, if you if you're makingmoney, we're making money, and
everyone is happy.
Like we didn't literally, man.
Yeah, to your point of the like,you're to do what I say, not
what I'm asking.
And you know, like that kind ofmentality starts to become very

(53:21):
adversarial and can be verychallenging to then, you know, I
tell subs or uh younger P's withcertain subs on jobs where I'm
like, your like your bestapproach to trying to get from
this issue to the solution is tosupport those that are in the
midst of it versus just uhthreatening to axe somebody and
find someone else.

(53:42):
I completely agree.
Um, because that's the nuclearoption.
Yep.
That is the there's no goingback when you pull that grenade
pin, right?

SPEAKER_01 (53:48):
Bro, supplemental is not fun, yeah.
And or for the guy that getsinvolved either.

SPEAKER_00 (53:54):
Yeah, right.
And so for our perspective, it'sa it's a constant like, what can
we do to help?
Right?
Like, what how can we help you?
Do is it do I need to find adifferent vendor for this
product that I can call and getthat here instead of you
purchasing, or is it is it this,is it that?
Like, how can we try to helpmake you successful and support
you in being successful?

(54:15):
Because that success willinevitably be part of our
success story of the project,right?
Um, and so I think the cultureand the people within Arco um
are kind of, I wouldn't sayingrained with that, but you
know, for instance, I'mliterally leaving tonight.
Part of the reason we're typingit now, because I'm leaving
tonight to go to oursuperintendent training, where

(54:35):
we have every superintendentacross the U.S.
for our group come to ourtraining facility right outside
St.
Louis.
Um, a lot of social stuff thatwe're doing was part of that,
just to kind of you knowmaintain a culture from that
perspective.
But one of the things that we'retraining on this week is core
values and and um, you know,ethics.
That again, this is the ARCOway, right?

(54:58):
Like this is how we do things,this is how we treat people.
Similarly with our projectmanagers, we have project
manager training where twice ayear, spring and fall, we have
our groups get together and wehave almost the exact same
technical conversations as wellas you know, morals, ethics,
values, like core values as abusiness.
It's huge, myth.
This is this is how we want totry to implement these things,

(55:20):
and it is constantly discussedand reviewed and talked about
all the time, from a to yourpoint of a perspective of those
of you that are like thinkingabout the smaller group that
you're trying to grow to alarger piece, like that's
something that's really hard totry to like I'll say hold
together in that growth, right?
It is actually massive, rapidexpansion.
It's very challenging to try tomaintain that that culture and

(55:44):
that mindset while you expand atthat rate.
Um it's extremely hard.
It's it's a it's a challenge, Ithink.
A lot of business, a lot ofgrowing pains from a lot of
companies that deal with that.
Um, and I wish I had the silverbullet for all of you guys to
let you know what that solutionis.
I think honestly, I think it's alot of us, like at this company
in particular, I can think ofmany examples where it's

(56:06):
leadership, ownership, all theabove, all from top to bottom of
the of the ladder within thecompany doing and saying what
they practice what you preach.
Yeah, man.
That's the that you know I Istill remember one of my
superintendents on a project.
My uh we literally had theco-founder of the company

(56:26):
showing up to the job site.
He was out riding his bike, hisbicycle rode by the job site,
just happened to walk off, andmy superintendent just dresses
him down for not having on ahard hat, all a safety vest,
right?
And he leaves and I come back tohim later.
He's like, I'm like, Do you haveany idea who that was?
And he said, Well, it doesn'tmatter.
He doesn't have on a safetygear.

(56:48):
And next day in the office, Ihappen to see him.
I I kind of catch him and tellhim, you know, hey, heard you
stopped by the job yesterday.
How did that go?
But he was so happy, he was soexcited.
He's like, I'm I'm so glad thathe did that.
He was absolutely right.
He had every reason to be sayingwhat an honor he is like that's
that's the kind of mentality oflike what how can we continue to

(57:10):
try to maintain this mindset andthought moving forward?
And I think it's somethingthat's again practiced and
pushed at all levels.

SPEAKER_01 (57:18):
I that's I have a similar story.
Uh we were just talking aboutNorthwest Arkansas.
We have a huge biking bikingcommunity, road biking
community, and I have adeveloper that I work for in
downtown Bentonville that rideshis bike to every single
project, and he picks projectsbased on being able to ride

(57:41):
proximity of his bike route.
Sure.
And uh he showed up one daybefore I had met him.
I had never met him, and thejob, terribly drawn job, and it
was just a water main extension.
We were kind of handling justeverything in encompassing.
It was small enough that we tookeverything we normally don't
take, you know what I mean?

(58:01):
But we wanted the water line.
And so he shows up one morningon his bike, very preppy ja
definitely not showing up towork, you know what I mean?
Work at time, you bet.
And I'm sitting there like, hmm,who is this guy?
He is being super nosy.
And I kind of put two and twotogether.
I've talked to him multipletimes on the phone, length on

(58:22):
email.
And I just walked up and I said,Hey Mark.
And he said, Yes, sir, how areyou doing, sir?
And I said, Thank God.
Because I first thing I'm like,this guy's riding his bike, you
know, he's gonna get clipped bythe skid steer.
He's come out and he he stayedon the sidewalk and just kind of
pushed his bike into the job,but he was looking at some
design stuff.
And anyways, wonderful customer,but yeah, he about he about

(58:44):
caught the wrong side of me thatday because we don't I don't
play with PPE and safety andstuff, and I'm glad you guys
don't either that.

SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
But no, but it's like I said, I think it just
shows of like again from thetop-down mentality of like the
more you can just support andemphasize those kind of things.
Again, like you said, it couldhave been very easy for him to
be like, Do you know who I am?
That's right.
I don't have to put any of thison.
Do you have to find your likeI'm cutting Jacks here, blah
blah blah, and has the exactopposite reason that's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 (59:12):
That's when you know your front of house team, okay,
to your point, PM's coming up,being more involved in the
design side.
That's when you know, because weeven at Scicon, I have a go no,
we have a go-no-go matrix, man.
We've bid a lot of work thisyear.
We have bid a lot of work.
There is some that I still didnot bid out because either we've

(59:34):
got basically five legs to ourgo-no-go matrix, but um, owner
is is one of them.
And if you're a crappy owner, Idon't want to deal with you,
man.
And but, you know, maybe it'ssomebody we've never worked with
before, but I'm always gonna domy homework.
Hey, I know somebody that'sworked for this guy, unless he's
a first time developer, firsttime contractor, and I'm

(59:56):
normally not trying to jump inbed with that either.
But hey, we've We've learnedfrom our mistakes, but um it's
pretty crazy, man.
Yeah, it truly is.
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Thanks, guys.
I've got one more question.

(01:01:00):
Sorry to just kill that.
But I I what's the takeaway foryou know, we've talked about
your subs so much.
Think about that guy at his dayone, day two, trying to figure
out being an electricalapprentice or a plumbing
apprentice or a drywall guy orthe new roofing guy.
Jumping on a crew, day one,blue-collar guy who's just

(01:01:23):
mentally sick and tired,physically sick and tired, and
emotionally sick and tired.
He may be 10 years in a companyand sitting there burnt out
completely.
Sure.
Give him a few pointers.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:36):
Yeah, uh, I would say um, I would say definitely
being curious and asking a lotof the right questions, good
answered one.
I think because I think at anylevel at any job that works,
right?
I think at any at any spot inyour career, whether you're the
50-year veteran or the five-yearveteran, right?

(01:01:59):
Like I think at any level,because as construction world
has told you, and as anybodywho's been in it has seen, it is
not stagnant.
It is a constantly evolving,constantly changing, ever
changing right now with AI,yeah, that's meal machine
control, software, technology,and all kinds of things that
again, even the guys that havebeen doing it since they were

(01:02:20):
right in high school are stilllearning that time.
So I think big inquisitive andasking the right questions, and
that's just a right anyquestions, really.
I it's a cliche, but there is nostupid question.
Like, because I do feel like themore people can see that
interest and that that you knowintrigue to what they're doing,
the was I've catching on.
Yeah, the why.

(01:02:40):
The once they can startunderstanding the why, and and
you can see people wanting toknow it, yeah, you really start
latching on to that concept ofokay, well, this person wants
more, this person can handlemore.
We can start figuring out theirladder path throughout this
process.
Um and I think also, you know,uh, as we mentioned earlier,
too, you know, going throughschool thinking I was gonna do

(01:03:01):
design, coming out of schoolthinking I was gonna do
construction, going into planand spec construction, then
going over and design build,like it's never too late to find
the thing that interests you themost, right?
And there's plenty of things outthere I go back to as an
engineering student, I neverwould have thought the
construction world was even apossibility.
Right.
Like it takes going to that onemeeting or that one um, you

(01:03:26):
know, uh presentation fromsomebody in the industry that's
showing you a new widget orsomething and talking to the
right person at a table or groupthat you're sitting at at dinner
or what whatever that is, thatlike things can change and and
opportunities can presentthemselves that um again you may
not even be aware exist rightnow, but they are.

(01:03:47):
You just have to try to findthem.
And there's again no magicalroadmap to show you how to get
there from A to B.
Um, but it's those that arewilling to to look at it, and I
g I it's I still go back to likeum taking the leak to try to
make sure it's never gonna feelright.

(01:04:07):
No, it's it's always gonna bescary.
I go back to my risky, scary,all of it.
Well, when I was trying to takethe position at Arco, quick
anecdotal story.
Like, I was I interviewed, I'dcome back and I was sitting in
the office and I was workingstill at my other job, and I
felt honestly, I felt terrible.
Yeah, I was guilty almost.
Yes, yeah.

(01:04:28):
I almost had this like, youknow, these guys took a chance
on me, yeah.
They hired me out of college,like they were a great group of
people.
Like, I hate just leaving, like,this just doesn't feel right.
And I kept going round and roundwith this decision and through
other factors and other things.
Um, my wife at the time, at thetime, my wife was extremely
supportive and just said, youknow, whatever you need to do,

(01:04:49):
however I can help, let me know.
And uh, I was like, Well, youknow, I'll think about it.
So I took a little while and Ifinally kind of decided I was
like, Well, I'm gonna take thejob, I'm gonna I'm gonna accept
it.
So I I came home that night andI told her, I was like, Well, I
called, called up, I acceptedthe job, I'm getting our start
day worked out right now.
And she said, That's fantastic.
I'm pregnant.

(01:05:10):
Like that.
I was like, Well, uh, that'snew.
And she's like, Well, I I didn'twant it to affect your decision,
I wanted you to make it on yourown terms.
Um, wow, what a G, bro.
I honestly, because I told her,I was like, it absolutely would
have affected it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:26):
Oh, you bet your bottom dollar it would.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:29):
No doubt.
And so it and it was it wasprobably the most anxious I've
ever felt.
It was those three or four daystrying to make that decision.
And I and here I am today,exactly where I am because of
that decision that I made.
But at the time it felt likeclimbing Mount Everest.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:44):
But dude, quick story.
It's funny.
The most most everybody's heardthis story at this point, but
literally I had uh jumped off onmy own, went and bought a truck,
and this old boy bought themachine and the trailer, and we
went at it as a partnership.
I sold my house, uh, everydollar I ever had, savings,

(01:06:05):
breaking horses when I was akid, all of it.
Yeah, never saw a check, neversaw any money for 16 weeks, and
we were living in a camper on myin-law's property, and we had
sold our house because we weregoing to build a house.
There's nothing about thisbusiness stuff, and so this guy
presented an opportunity, wentterribly, and now I'm sitting

(01:06:28):
here in a camper, uh, brokerthan I've ever been broke.
I ever knew broke.
Yeah.
And I'm like, all right, I'lljust go rent machines and keep
going, you know?
And look at my wife, that wasMonday.
Skycon started after all ofthis, and we didn't have a
freaking two nickels.
And in that camper, she lookedat me on Wednesday and she said,

(01:06:51):
I'm pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:51):
Yeah, it's it's always that time.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:54):
And we we spent three years trying to have coal.
It was like it was a monumental,huge deal.
I I have dealt with some majorpressures in my life over the
last ten years, sir.
But it wasn't nothing like thatmoment.
Yeah.
I had no not saying that I'vesucceeded perfectly now, sir.

(01:07:14):
I've still fail and I makemistakes every day, but there
was no way I could fail afterShaitan's right.
So that's probably uh how manyyou got?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:23):
Uh we got two now.
He was our first.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:26):
Yeah.
If you've enjoyed this episode,be sure to give it a like, share
it with the fellas, check outour website to send us any
questions and comments aboutyour experience in the blue
collar business.
Who do you want to hear from?
Send them our way, and we'll doour best to answer any questions
you may have.
Till next time, guys.