March 29, 2024 • 53 mins
This week, we're rolling up our sleeves for a rollercoaster ride through Everton's relegation fight. April's got us in a twist with seven matches that are going to define our season, starting today with Bournemouth at home. Dive in for our take on the Toffees' great escape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to episode 71 of the Blues Brothers Everton
podcast.
Good to be back alongsideEverton, who are back tomorrow.
We recording this on friday the29th, so happy easter to those
who celebrate.
Um, I've enjoyed a day off forgood friday.
Uh, adam has as well, but hasbeen working and andrew's been
properly working.
So, um, my apologies to youguys who are having to do this
(00:39):
late, and I've had a busier daythan I have.
Um, ben's not here today.
Uh, he's got somethinginvolving being a dad.
I have no idea, uh, but that's,that was his excuse and he's.
He's sticking to it.
Um, adam, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm very well, thanks .
Yeah, I'm enjoying the uh, youknow, first day off of um of the
Easter holidays and, you know,as as you, as you said and sort
of implied that my work wasn'treal work, maybe jokingly, maybe
it didn't mean real work.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
No, no, no at all.
I think of all of them.
I mean the four of us.
You two have actual jobs, meand Ben have like nonsense
beat-up jobs.
So I don't think I would everdare imply that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, I think to be fair, I think it was just the
order of the set.
The way the sentence was laidout suggested that and Andrew's
doing real work.
Yeah, I'm sure it won't be likethat every day, but yeah, it's
good to get things ticked offthe list early on though, and
then hopefully I can enjoy sometime off.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Great, awesome, andy, how are you?
How you doing?
I'm good, thank you, yeah, I um.
It's nice to be um back on apod again.
Obviously wasn't able to uhparticipate in the last one,
which I enjoyed listening to, um, so, yeah, looking forward to
uh chatting everton stuff for anhour or so awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I wonder who downloaded the last one.
Now, we know.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You did yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, it's not true.
Actually, quite a lot of peoplelisten to this, remarkably.
All right, so we're recordingthis Friday.
Everton have been off for threeweeks, as have we, and we're
back, but we're back with a nutsschedule.
We're going to talk about, uh,seven games before the end of
april which, uh, we're going togo through them are going to be
pretty important.
(02:28):
So we're going to talk aboutthat quite a lot today, I think.
And, uh, we want to start though, with because we sort of have
to, although it pains us to doit with psr and points
deductions.
Um, since we last were here, Ithink the forest news has come
since we were last here, I thinkI could.
Berest news has come since wewere last here I think I could
be wrong about that Forrest beendeducted four points.
(02:48):
Everton have, I think, now hadtheir second hearing.
I think it was earlier thisweek.
So we would expect to hear theanswer on that in the next
couple weeks.
With the way these things haveworked previously, once again,
you know the league table at thebottom is, you know, being
almost entirely determined bythe outcome of these panels and
(03:11):
the hearings.
And then we've got thesituation, obviously, with
Leicester again as well, whichis even more complicated,
believe it or not, and the oneus and Forrester.
And so, adam, I'll start withyou what's your take on the
Forrest situation and and whatyou think the implications might
be for for Everton and the restof the league?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
um, I think it's, you know, rather unfair on on uh,
on Everton because, um, and thisis nothing against Nottingham
Forrest, I think they've justsimply benefited from being
second in this sort of process.
I think we've, we've workedlyrical over the past few months
about the process, or lack ofprocess, of the premier league
(03:50):
and the you know parameters andlack of parameters that they've
put in and uh, to try and guide,guide the independent
commissions through this,through this sort of process and
, as um, you know, as our, asour appeal showed, you know, we
got a 40 reduction in in theinitial, initial thing.
(04:11):
So they, the independentcommissions, have been shown, at
least in the first instance,that they are, you know, they,
they interpreted the lawincorrectly, um, and that's
based on the Premier League'slack of clarity and we've talked
a lot about that.
So I think you know Forresthave said that they feel that
(04:35):
they're, you know they've beenharshly done by getting four
points and, to break it down,they got six points for the
breach, which I think it's fairto say now is the basic, that's
the sort of first rung on theladder, that you will get six
points regardless of how muchyou go over.
I think that's you know, andobviously Everton got that.
(04:57):
The Premier League sort ofdenied that that was the case,
but that's what Everton ended upgetting with their 10 points
initially, and then they got twotaken away through, sort of
because they were very open andyou know they were open and
honest and worked with thePremier League.
I yeah, I think I mean Forrestin particular I think that's a
(05:20):
fair, I think it's a fairpunishment would be the six
points.
If you're going to use Evertonas the barometer of these things
and you know you can arguewhether that six points is
initially fair in the firstplace.
But to give Forest like twopoints off because of how open
(05:42):
and honest they were, when itseems to me that Everton were
quite open and honest as well,and one of the key aspects of
Forrest's sort of pro that willbe their legal, that will be
their appeals process and theirdefence was that they wanted to
sell.
They would have sold BrendanJohnson earlier and he ended up
(06:03):
going.
But it would have meant thatthey would have sold Brennan
Johnson earlier, um, and heended up going, um, but it would
have meant that they would haveto accept a lower fee from uh,
I think it was Brentford andthey ended up selling them on
September 1st for about 47million to Spurs.
Now Everton were in that exactsame position with Richarlison,
um for the with the exact sameclub everton got.
(06:24):
Was it 60 million or potentially60 million for a charleston and
you know, you can, you can makea good case that he is a 60, a
plus 60 million pound player inthe current market and not
forest's defense is is is quiteincredible that that's the sort
(06:45):
of thing they were puttingforward.
It's like they're saying like,oh, we're a bit, but a business.
And some of the fans weretrying to argue and say like,
but that's what a businessshould do.
It's trying to maximize itsprofits.
It's like, well, all right, tryand tell hmrc that I'm I'm a
plumber.
And I go like, oh, I've gotthis job.
And it's like a few days afterthe tax thing, do you mind if I
just put them in a bit early soI can make a bit more money?
Please, let me show, I'll seeyou're going.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So you're going, go and run well, it's interesting,
there's an interestingperspective.
There isn't that because you'reright and like they.
They got two points backbecause they were like, yeah,
they were cooperative.
Now, and the brennan johnsonthing says that they were
cooperative to the point wherethey knew what they were doing
when they did it Exactly, andthat doesn't appear to be a
(07:28):
problem, right?
So you don't appear to getpunished more, which you would
normally in the course of legalstuff, and none of us are
lawyers, but we live in theworld and you know it's sort of
a wide understood thing.
If you do somethingintentionally, that is worse
than doing it unintentionallyRight, intent matters.
If you do somethingintentionally, that is worse
than doing it unintentionally.
Right, intent matters in thelaw and they're basically saying
(07:49):
, yeah, we knew we werebreaching, but we were doing,
but when we did this, but we didit, and then the premier go
well, no, you were really honestabout that.
So I have two points back.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So because, to take, to take that point to its nth
degree, it's the opposite ofwhat happens, um, in murder and
manslaughter cases, isn't it?
Because obviously it's likesomebody was found deliberately
killing somebody deliberatelyand not being prosecuted for
murder and somehow beingrewarded by you know and given a
(08:19):
reduction in their sentence.
Because it's completely arseabout it.
It really is, but again, itjust yeah, sorry, yeah, it just
again.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It just serves the serves, the um serves to the
point that we've made in thelast podcast where we talked
about how you've got thisindependent commission, which is
you know you can use the wordindependent in inverted commas
because they've got thisindependent commission which is,
you know you can use the wordindependent in inverted commas,
because they've got these peoplethat are interpreting these
guidelines in very different, invery different ways.
An independent commission saidthat 10 points would have been
(08:55):
fair for Everton when thePremier League predicated that
of having 12 points, predicatedthat of having 12 points.
And then, you know, the PremierLeague recommended eight points
, for I'm sure I read that theyrecommended eight points for
(09:16):
Forrest.
I don't think that was madepublic until after the, until
after the commission's ruling.
Then they gave six and thenawarded two.
But yeah, you're absolutelyright, it's like they weren't
honest about.
They weren't honest about thething.
They literally tried to cheatthe process.
Yeah, it's like they.
They must have known at thepoint when the when in in june,
when, when the account, when youhad to submit your accounts or
(09:39):
the next accounting windowstarted in june, that oh shit,
we've still got.
We've still got brendan johnsonlike they must.
They must have known, becausethey had the choice of selling
him beforehand and they chosenot to um about it.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I mean you sort of get to thinking that like there
shouldn't really be mitigationsat all.
Right, because you know you,you could, I could get on board
with a system that said youoverspend by.
There's some formula which is,if you overspend, we could have
sold this player then, oractually we, we wrote a bet.
(10:15):
I mean, you know, baz fromToffee TV was on the Sky fan
debate, the overlap fan debate,which is great.
It's become my favorite sort offootball show that the Gary
(10:37):
Neville show and, like you know,baz was on there and he said,
basically, forrest wrote abetter email to the Premier
League, so they get two pointsback Now.
And you say, basically, forrestwrote a better email to the
Premier League, so they get twopoints back.
Now imagine if you're Luton Townand they go down by a point and
you're like well, that judgmentwas the entire reason for us
being in the Premier League ornot.
It's kind of ludicrous.
You'd almost rather have asystem where you say it doesn't
matter whether you cooperate,don't cooperate, do whatever.
(10:59):
It is a purely factual process.
Did you spend x amount of money?
Therefore, you lose y number ofpoints because the other
interesting thing that came fromthe fan debate where they were
talking about this is the guywho's on there was the forest
fan.
These are all people who arelike.
You know podcast, youtube.
People from the clubs saidbasically he thinks forest made
(11:20):
the right judgment because ifthey hadn't have spent all that
money, they wouldn't have stayedin the league.
And actually, four points.
You know we'll probably makethat up by having you know like,
but it's basically worth it nowthat if you're the premier
league, that should scare theshit out of you, because if, if
you're creating a system wherethe clubs are going to be like
yeah, okay, we'll just pay theprice in points because it's not
(11:40):
that big a deal, that's a realproblem absolutely, that's a
massive problem because it'sthen the off-field equivalent of
a tactical foul to break up apromising counter-attack by the
opposition, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And managers treating yellow cards as being part of
the game.
I mean, I'm convinced now,having listened to lots of
debate and lots of people talkabout it, my understanding is
the clubs lots of people talkabout it my understanding is the
clubs that you know, when theyvoted the PSR rules in, didn't
want a regimented regime ofsanction.
(12:11):
But I'm convinced they didn'tfully understand the
circumstances of what mighthappen.
Um, you know around that, andobviously the chaos that's
engulfing the bottom of thepremier league now is is
testament to the fact that aproper regimented sanctions
regime would offer clarity.
(12:32):
Yeah, now it would have to berobust enough to make sure that
clubs didn't take the mickey inthe manner that you've just
described.
Austin, where the clubs aregonna go, yeah, we can overspend
, and the player that weoverspend by gets us enough
points to outweigh any potentialpoints deductions.
So therefore it's worth doing,because the current situation is
(12:54):
just absolutely untenable.
I mean, it's not beyond therealms of possibility that we
could enter May and Forrestwould still have to have their
appeal heard.
We might appeal our secondhearing, depending on what the
outcome of that is.
(13:14):
And then, as you say, you'vegot clubs at the bottom.
One of the biggest things inSky's coverage of the Premier
League is the race for survival,the battle to stay in the
Premier League.
The biggest things in sort of,you know, sky's coverage of the
premier league is that, you know, race for survival, the battle
to stay in the premier league.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well, this season that could be rendered
meaningless on the last day Ithink you're right and I don't
think there's a chance that itisn't.
Because, if you think about it,right that forest have appealed
ever unless everton get nonothing, unless the answer the
commission is you have nopunishment, which I cannot see,
then Everton are going to appealas well, because why would you
not?
The cost of appealing is you'vegot to pay some lawyers, right?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
The only thing about that is if Everton were to get I
mean first we don't know howbig Everton's breach is first it
could be relatively, it couldbe six million pounds.
Be relatively, it could be sixmillion pounds, yeah now.
Now I accept adam's point thatyou know a minimum, you know six
point um penalty for merelybreaching is the benchmark.
But if you looked I don't seeif everton's breach is on the
(14:17):
relatively small side andobviously I'm speculating
because we don't know.
But if it is on the small, thenyou would imagine that we
couldn't get more than threepoints for that, in which case
the club might go well.
If Everton get two or three,they might go well.
But why would you not feel?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
yeah, well, you know, because I understand, like I
agree, but like you, because Imean, I think, I mean I guess
the answer is answer my questionthat in theory, I think an
appeal can actually increaseyour punishment.
I think yeah, because it is are-review, basically, of another
panel.
I don't think it's the casethat it can only be reduced, but
I'd be very surprised if we,maybe, if we got one point, they
(15:01):
might go okay, it's not worthit.
But if it's like two or three,I'd be very surprised if we,
maybe, if we got one point, theymight go okay, it's not worth
it, but if it's like two orthree, I'd be surprised.
I just think that they'vecreated a system where you
almost want to sort of do theappeal at the same time, like
you could almost say, well,we're going to have two panels.
Right, take the average.
You know what I mean, becauseyou are going to, you are going
to appeal, but when people areconvicted of crimes, you can't
(15:28):
just appeal anything and look,I'm sounding like I'm a lawyer,
I'm really not, but I've spentenough time around them.
You have to appeal on somebasis of law, right?
You can't appeal that you justdon't like the decision a jury
gave to find you guilty.
I want another go.
You've got to point out thatthere's some question that the
process wasn't followed.
This isn't the case here.
They have an automatic right toappeal, which again actually
(15:50):
doesn't make any sense.
So I think they probably will.
So to fast forward to your point, andy, which I completely agree
with, I cannot see a situation,the only situation, where it's
not going to be wrapped up inlitigation and you know, at the
end of the year and be a whole acomplete clusterfuck, is if the
(16:11):
gap between the third bottomteam if it's luton is more than
between them and the next teamup, is more than the number of
points that team got deducted.
Yeah, like that, that's the,it's that.
And I can't see that becauseever's in a pro, we're gonna end
up with, like what?
Seven or eight points deducted.
Are we gonna finish seven oreight points ahead of maybe,
(16:33):
maybe not, you know, like forestfour, like they?
It's very, very unlikely.
So not only are you gonna, asyou rightly say, the drama is
gonna be gone entirely, becausethe on-field stuff is going to
not matter.
In the same way I said this allthe way through you are going
to have a summer of people suingpeople as well.
(16:53):
Because if you're Luton and youget relegated by one point
because the Premier League gaveNottingham Forest two points
back in a mitigation which theyapplied in one case for us but
not in another case evertonbecause everton were found in
our appeal to have cooperatedbut were not given any points
back for mitigation for that,then you're gonna lutein, are
(17:16):
gonna go.
Well, you know that's that I'mgonna sue you for the the
financial impact of beingrelegated because you've not
treated me fairly.
So I think the premier leagueare heading full on to.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I can't see how there isn't a situation over the
summer where there are justcourt cases and it's a complete
mess I can't remember any pointof the last few years where um,
where the, where the teams it'snot gone down into, like the
last, the last game of theseason or the last two games of
the season, ie, where the gaphas been more than six points.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't remember any time of that
where it's been like that no, Ican't recall any any season
where that scenario has happened.
Obviously there's been caseswhere the team finishing bottom
and second bottom have been cutor drift.
Certainly the team finishingbottom, yeah, but bottom have
been cut adrift, certainly theteam finishing bottom, but
there's always been a relativelysmall gap between the club in
(18:08):
17th and 18th, sometimes by goaldifference, obviously, as we
found out in the 97-98 season.
So, yeah, I agree with Austinentirely and the thing as well.
I mean this is really bad.
You know the Premier League,you know copyright, the best
(18:30):
league in the world is.
You know this is really bad fortheir brand and their business
model and all that sort of stuff.
Because I can remember when Ifirst started watching first
memories of football in the late80s, the Italian league was
(18:50):
where all the big money was andwhere all the big players went
to and that was the league inEurope that had the most
prestige and then various.
You know everything's cyclicallyin life, so things change
anyway but they had somefinancial irregularities
involving corruption and bravadomatch officials.
And the Italian League now isstill, you know, one of the top
(19:12):
five leagues, but it's waybehind the Premier League in
terms of attendances and revenueand the players it attracts.
So the Premier League I'veprobably made made this well, I
know I've made this point onprevious pods.
They've got to be reallycareful about because nothing in
life lasts forever.
(19:33):
Nothing is, you know, is gonna.
So their revenues have gone upand up and up over the last sort
of 20 or 30 years and I think Iwonder if there's an
expectation that's just going tocarry on.
There's no guarantee it's goingto carry on and one of the
things that might mean itdoesn't carry on is them
completely messing up thesituation around the profit and
(19:57):
sustainability rules.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Well, because you make the legal exciting right.
That's the risk.
You stop making the in theoryand I understand rules well,
because you make the leagueunexciting, right.
That's the risk.
Yes, you stop being making thein theory and I understand not
that there should be rules right, there should be rules around
spending like.
I'm not against that inprinciple, but you, you want the
, the, the outcome, to bedictated by what happens on the
pitch and the moment you changethat.
I think that's the thingthey've sleepwalked into, but
(20:22):
with points deductions ratherthan financial penalties,
because people talk aboutfinancial penalties aren't
meaningful.
I completely disagree.
I completely disagree.
If you clobber someone with abig financial penalty that they,
that that goes against like,that, that goes against their
like is effectively consideredtransfer spending right for the
purposes of it, then actuallythat would be really tough.
(20:42):
But by by making it pointsdeductions, they've created this
.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
They've they've, I think, walked without thinking
into a situation where the, thedrama, happens in a courtroom,
in a closed courtroom yeah, yeahit's not a good sport,
obviously no exactly and I think, um, I mean they're, they're in
a bit of a pickle withLeicester as well.
Who are, you know, in troublebecause of their?
(21:08):
I mean, obviously they've beenimploded on the pitch.
You know, andrew, you made thepoint before the podcast of them
being a few weeks ago.
They were a few months ago,rather, they were, you know, 15
points clear at the top of thechampionship and now they've
dropped out of the top two.
So things aren't going well forthem on the pitch.
But also they've got, obviously, their.
They've been charged withbreaking PSR as well, which is
(21:29):
sort of inevitable given they.
I think it was like in the lastPremier League season that they
were in.
Last season they didn't spend apenny on transfers.
I think a lot of theirs comesfrom their training ground.
I think it was that they'vebuilt.
But there's a question mark overLeicester whether they get the
(21:53):
punishment now in theChampionship or whether they get
it in the Premier League, andthere's arguments about who has
the jurisdiction over that sortof punishment and and the sort
of, and obviously then you'vegot all the ramifications of
(22:14):
well, how will that impact?
How that impact championshipclubs when they spent that money
in the prime when they were inthe Premier League, and how
Championship clubs may benefitor be punished as an indirect
result of, or a direct result,rather, of the fact that they
get they might get pointsdeducted in the Championship
when the Championship clubs had.
(22:35):
You know, they weren't in theChampionship at the time.
So they've created this mess,complete mess, for themselves,
where they've put theseguidelines, they've had these
PSR rules and gone.
It's almost like they've gone.
Like we've made this pointbefore in the previous podcast.
I don't think anyone canpossibly lose 150 million each
(22:56):
season over three seasons.
I think it's impossible to dothat.
It's like they almost neverthought this would ever actually
come into place and now they've.
Now they're panicking becausethey actually do have to provide
some clarity and guidance andthey're just showing that
they're incapable of doing it.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, yeah, and lester statements around this
issue as well have been reallyinteresting in the sense of
they've been really bullish.
And I mean, as far as they'reconcerned, the gloves are off
because Everton and Forreststatements around their
respective charges have, youknow, said the right words
around, you know beingdisappointed and you know made
(23:34):
their displeasure quite plain.
But Leicester's statements havebeen on another level and
they've been sort of activelyquestioning the jurisdiction of
the Premier League and the PSRrules as to whether they can
apply to a club in Leicester'scircumstances.
And again you've got to wonderbear in mind what a cack-handed
(23:55):
job the Premier League have donewith this entire process Is
there a clause in the PremierLeague sorry, is there a clause
in the PSR rules that enablesthem to to take action against a
club in Leicester's situation?
Now, you you assume that thereis, but none of us would be
surprised if it transpired thatthere wasn't.
(24:17):
And Leicester absolutely rightin questioning the validity of
the process, which adds moregrist to the mill, which is what
austin said about it.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You can't see anything other than a summer of
of clubs taking action againstvarious government bodies for
various aspects of the processyeah, it's going to be, I think
the, believe it or not, I reallythink the messiest part of this
is still to come.
Yeah, I think, after it allgets done.
I mean because I meanabsolutely.
I mean the fact, and we'll moveon from this, dear listener,
(24:50):
very quickly, I promise you.
But just the fact that, like,this whole process is run by
absolute boneheads isdemonstrated by the fact that
the deadline for the appeals tobe resolved is a week after the
season ends.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Because it's timed around their annual shareholder
meeting.
Right, that's why that's whenthat is because they have a
share.
So it's like because they haveto know who's.
So they like oh, we need toknow who's in the league or not
ahead of the shareholder meeting.
Right, that's like.
(25:28):
No, it's like you need to gofor the fans because you're an
entertainment product.
So they could have said I mean,they've made the.
They're gonna say it has to betwo weeks earlier than that and
it's a week before the seasonends.
So, going into the last week,you know what the score is.
They're just so.
I mean, these people are dumb asa rock.
I mean, there's absolutely.
You know richard masters is amarketing guy who's in so far
(25:48):
above his head and you know it'sbecome widely known in football
circles that he's not.
You know that the clubs havelost faith in him and you, you
can see.
You can see why.
Anyway, I promise we move onand we will.
Let's talk about everton.
So I'm going to read you guys,we have currently, as we sit
recording this, now we have 25points from 28 games, so we have
(26:11):
a game in hand against most ofthe team around us.
That game in hand is againstLiverpool.
So let's not, let's not get toooverexcited about that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
25 points, Forest 21.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Lut 25 points, forrest 21.
Luton 22.
As discussed, forrest Could beon 21, could be on something
else, we could be on 25, couldbe on something else.
Anyway, that's where we are.
I'm going to read you thefixtures we have coming up
between now and the next fourweeks, four weeks plus change.
And then we're going to gothrough them and we ask you guys
(26:42):
what you think we're gonna getfrom each one and we're gonna
work out whether we're gonna getrelegated on.
And I say I, I believe, as youpeople have been listening to
this pod long enough now Ibelieve it's impossible that
forever, since you get relegated, because we live in a
simulation and the simulationhas rules and one of the rules
is evertonians will neverreceive the sweet release of
death.
(27:02):
But we actually got relegated.
It would be fine like we'd bein the championship, we'd play
football, we'd win games,everything would be fine.
But we never get to experiencethat we have to be tortured.
So, uh, tomorrow, uh, balmothaway.
Tuesday, newcastle away.
Next sat, burnley at home.
(27:23):
So we've got three games in aweek.
Then we've got Chelsea away,forest at home, liverpool at
home, brentford at home.
So those seven games coming up,let's go through.
I mean, we normally do this atthe end, but as we're doing them
in a group, we'll do it now.
What do we think about theBournemouth result?
(27:44):
Let's do some quick fire.
What do we think the results ofthese games are going to be?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
I think we I mean, I'm just going to go full
Lawrenson on this until we win,and I think we're going to win
because we have to win at somepoint and Bournemouth are a good
team and I think they've donewell with their sort of gamble,
(28:12):
getting rid of Gary O'Neill atthe start of the season and
brought in a guy whose name Ican never, ever, ever, ever
remember.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Andoni Iraiola.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Thank you, andrew.
Very good, he got his firstname, Very impressive, and so
they're a good team.
But I just think that they will, that our luck's got to turn at
some point and we will win 1-0.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Okay, andy, what do you think about Bournemouth?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, it's going to be a more difficult game than
the reverse fixture was atGoodison, because that was right
at the start of the season andthe Bournemouth players then
were clearly struggling to adaptto Iriola's methods.
But that has clicked now andthey're a they're, they're,
they're a decent outfit.
(29:06):
So this is not going to be aneasy game.
Having said that, we've saidmany times on previous podcasts
that everton's underlyingperformances generally are are
are reasonably good.
Um, all the, all the metricsare in the right direction.
We just can't, we just can'tscore.
Sooner or later, though, I, I Ihave faith that we will start
(29:29):
scoring.
So I'm going to say I'm goingto let my my head over my no, my
heart over on my head on this.
I'm going to say we're going towin 2-1.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you guys both think we're going to win 2-1.
Okay, All right.
So you guys both think we'regoing to win.
What about Newcastle away?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Adam, yeah, that'll be a trickier one.
So I think, based on the factthat we will beat Bournemouth
and get that monkey off our back, I think we'll then go and lose
that, just to put the pressureright back on us.
Andy.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, that's obviously going to be a tougher
game.
I mean, newcastle aren'tpulling up any trees though
their season compared to lastseason they'll be disappointed
with and they've got a wholehost of players out injured.
I mean they've had sufferedinjuries for a good chunk of the
season In a world where wedon't have a points deduction.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
we're only five points behind Newcastle.
We're nine because we got fourpoints back.
Ignore me, Please carry on.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So, yeah, it's, yeah.
I, as much as I can't see uswinning that game, we might get
a draw, we might get a nil-nilup there.
So I'll go for that nil-nil,which will do me nicely.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
All right.
So then the next one's Burnley.
At home, We've got to beatBurnley, right?
The three of us would give that.
Yes, agree, ad, okay,absolutely Right.
So Chelsea away.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
We'll beat Chelsea because Chelsea are a.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Adam's got us in the jam.
He really has gone full.
They won't get up.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I'm hitting my Mark Lawrenson button again.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I mean Chelsea are obviously the sort of team the
epitome of you never know who'sgoing to turn up.
They can either be Brazil, 1970or Bognor Regis from 1970.
Did Bognor Regis have a club in1970?
I've no idea, but for thepurpose of this conversation
they did.
Again, I have every confidence.
Club in 1970?
I've no idea, but for thepurpose of this conversation
(31:45):
they did.
Yeah, again, I have everyconfidence that we'll go there
and do what we do well, which isdigging deep low block, defend
quite well, and it's up to ifChelsea can break us down or not
.
Again, I'd be happy with itwith a draw there.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay, all right uh Forrest at home big game.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think that's another one we've got to look,
got to look to win and Adam,what do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think you're on mute Ad.
It does limit the impact on thepodcast.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It does.
Yeah, I mean I could sign.
I mean I have two problems withthat.
We're on a podcast and I canonly do the alphabet, thank you.
So yeah, yeah, I think we'llbeat Forest.
I think home advantage big game.
I think obviously ourselves andForest will be still very much
(32:51):
in the thick of it around thattime and Goodison will be like a
bear pit around then,presumably, liverpool are going
to batter us, because that'swhat they do.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Anyone disagree with that?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, we're going to get tanked.
I've written it off becauseClark and also the also the
media will be going absolutelybananas for Klopp in his last
derby away.
So we've got to fight againstthat as well.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and obviously, unless they have a collapse
between now and then, they'regoing to be in the shout for the
league title.
I mean, what I will say is thatobviously I mean you know,
eight o'clock kickoff on aWednesday night I mean
Goodison's going to be anabsolute bear pit for that game.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm trying to go for that.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We're going to try Well obviously it's me or you
plus dad.
So yeah, if you to go, then goahead.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, people say I've always said I grew up, you know
you'll remember this interview.
Say a form goes out the windowat Derby, does it shit?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
No, it really doesn't .
It really doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
We haven't beaten them at Goodison since 2010.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's ludicrous.
All right, so we're going tolose.
Now Brentford, now I'm going tothis game so I can tell you
it's going to be a draw, becausethat's what happens when I, the
last four times no, I, watchedus beat West Ham away last
season.
Every other game I've seen inthe last two years has been a
draw, every single one, and Ithink I've seen six.
So, uh, if you want to deviate,want to make an argument that
(34:31):
I'll see everton win, I'm hereto hear it I mean, I've the
games I've seen this season.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I've I've been to three and we've lost them all.
Um, so you're doing better thanme.
I went to Fulham where webattered them and lost 1-0, and
then lost to City at home fairdues.
And then what was the last homegame where we?
It wasn't the last home game,it was the one before West Ham,
whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Me and you went to Palace Palace.
That was it.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That was a draw.
That was a one-all draw.
It felt like a loss because ofthe fact that it did because it
was terrible.
And it was shit.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Okay, do you think we're going to beat Brentford?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Are we home or away?
We're home Home, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
All right, adam thinks we're going to beat
Brentford.
Andy, have you been?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
telling us our points .
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I am telling up yes, and there'll be a record, and
this will be revisited at theend of the season or again it's
it, I, I think I'm going to sayI'm going to be all the hell
with it.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm going to say, yes , we're going to beat brentford.
It's going to be two nil okay.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So let me tell you I mean me, dear listeners, to do
some quick mathematics Four,seven, eight, 11, 14.
Okay, so you guys believe, adam, you believe we're going to get
15 points from these sevengames.
Yes, you believe we're going toget 14 points from these seven,
(36:09):
which would be a dramaticimprovement.
I just want to point that out.
But if we did, if we did, if,adam, you were right we would
immediately be on 40 points,absolutely clear at the
relegation zone, and you'd haveus on 39, equally clear.
So, job done, Easy peasy, to befair.
I mean like all right, that'slike whatever just like just
(36:34):
over two points a game for me,which is, you would win the
league if you played like thatthe entire season.
That's what you're talkingabout.
You're talking aboutcomfortable Champions League
form that we're suddenly goingto adopt.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Hey, we adapted it.
We won four games on the bounceback in December and we've been
on the worst.
I think it's like the jointworst run in our entire history
at the minute.
So I thought our looks got tochange.
I've caveated most of thesethings with the fact that I've
gone Lawrenson on it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I appreciate the optimism.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Go ahead, Andy.
I mean obviously those sevengames that we've just outlined.
If we get 10 points from those,that will put us on 35.
Yeah, With going into May andaway game at Luton and a home
game against Sheffield United.
Still to come, game againstSheffield.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
United still to come.
No, this is the key.
The key thing I was going tosort of wrap this up is joking
aside, we have got to playBurnley at home, forest at home,
brentford at home, sheffieldUnited at home.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
If we cannot muster 12 or 13 fucking points, we
don't deserve to be in theleague.
You know, that is like pointsdeductions aside.
We should be able to.
We should win all of thosegames.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That should be our.
That should be the standardwe're setting, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I'd agree.
Everything else that's gone onthis season, you know, points
deductions, potential secondpoints deductions, our inability
to hit a cow's ass with a banjoin terms of putting the ball in
the net.
There are enough points stillto play for at the end of the
season.
It's still in our hands,regardless of any other
(38:20):
extenuating circumstances, andif we can't get enough points
from our remaining certainlyhome fixtures, then quite
frankly, we we deserve to berelegated and then it sets up
perfectly because we're playingarsenal away at the end of the
season and we love nothing morethan getting absolutely fucked
by arsenal.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Absolutely, it's like a tradition.
I mean, remember that game atthe year we actually we
qualified for the fuckingChampions League.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Well, it's funny 7-0.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It's funny.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
They were literally all still hung over.
Oh, they were.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I listened to an Everton FC podcast today about
Everton's goalkeepers over thelast sort of 50 or 60 years and
that game was actually mentionedbecause we lost.
I think it was 7-0.
Yeah, it was 7-0.
And one of the I think it wasDave Prentice, who was working
(39:16):
for the Echo at the time saidEverton's man of the match by a
country mile was the goalkeeper,Richard Wright, Because it
happened to be for him.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It was Nigel Martin.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Was it Nigel Martin, I think so.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Richard Wright had left by then, I think he left.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Well, they mentioned a lot of goalkeepers in the
course of 45 minutes, butwhoever it was was our man of
the match, because it would havebeen, you know, easily double
figures.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So it's actually a perfect Everton season.
I think we'll avoid relegation,either against Luton or
Sheffield United.
Third game to go, second gameto go, and then Arsenal will set
a record against us.
If you're an Arsenal fan,you'll listen to this.
Don't know where you would beif you are Unless.
You're worried about going downto the wire or you think maybe
(40:06):
goal difference might matter.
Do not worry, we've got you arefine.
That's right, because you aregoing to set a fucking record.
Yeah, all right, so you guysthink we're all going to be fine
, great, um, okay, any of theeverton stuff we want to talk
about, because the and you wantto talk about football league
stuff a little bit, which I wantto do, but any of the Everton
stuff we want to talk about,because, andy, you want to talk
about Football League stuff alittle bit, which I want to do,
(40:27):
but any of the Everton stuff weshould talk about.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
The only thing who plays right back against.
Well, bournemouth have theforthcoming fixtures Because I
believe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isColwyn fit again, did he?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
play for Ireland the other day.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
We've done so much, we're so professional.
There's so much crap.
Come and Google it yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
People listen to us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
But the reason I ask is isDyche clearly doesn't fancy
Patterson at all, because heclearly would have played him in
lots, of you know, previousfixtures?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And apparently he bunched him in lots of you know,
previous fixtures andapparently he punched him and
apparently yeah, apparently.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
well, playful slap that ended up being a bit harder
.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
I work in communications.
A playful slap is a very yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But anyway, so clearly doesn't you know?
Fancy him on the you know onthe pitch.
Fancy him on the pitch.
Ben Godfrey's been right back,but he's not pulled up any trees
in terms of his performances,so you can make a strong case
that the best right back of thethree players you could really
(41:40):
see.
Obviously you could play AshleyYoung there as well, I suppose.
But out of all the availableoptions, 60 grand Seamus Coleman
is Ashley Young there as well,I suppose.
But out of all the availableoptions, 60 grand Seamus Coleman
is still the best one.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Coleman is fit according to my hasty Right, so
I would expect him to.
But he's not going to play threegames in seven days.
So you know, and I think, justthinking about again you know
which, we've spent a lot of timeworking at the fixtures I can
see Dyche really prioritisingtomorrow and then next Saturday
over Newcastle away, you know,and I think that's probably
(42:13):
right because you're going to.
So you know, I think we willsee Ashley Owen play a role at
some point, but I don't know.
That's something that'sinteresting because I think
Dyche has shown with you know,with what's his name, god centre
half just made the Englandsquad that he will give.
(42:38):
You know, he's not contrary tohis reputation, a little bit
he's not close to young playersand Paterson, he is like giving
game time to.
He just seems reticent to starthim, but maybe his hand, for
the reason that you, you raiseandy, his hand might be forced
right because it's going to be.
It's tough, I think, to playashley young right back in a
game you're trying to win.
(42:58):
Yeah, because I just think hegives you so little going
forward that I think that andhe's dice has been burned a
couple of times by that alreadyColeman, obviously, we know, can
do that and is a, you know, isjust the best at it.
I think Patterson may get anopportunity at some point, just
through necessity, yeah yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I think I think he's obviously had a lot of time out
where he's not been starting.
I think injuries will probablyforce his hand.
I think he made a mistakeagainst Scotland in their latest
fixture against NorthernIreland, which has obviously
(43:43):
probably not helped things, butI think he deserves another
chance.
I think he's a good player.
I think he's just, I thinktactically.
I just don't think Dyche.
I think Dyche has worries abouthim sticking to the system that
he wants him to play and youcan imagine, knowing where to be
(44:03):
at any point in the game is thefirst and foremost
consideration for for Daishin inselecting his, selecting his
teams.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, no, I, I think you know that I can.
Yeah, yeah, he completed 90minutes.
I was just I was doing furtherresearch because I'm dedicated
to accuracy on this podcast.
He completed 90 minutes, or hewas booked in the 85th minute,
so we at least lasted that onebecause he was 90 minutes.
Or he was booked in the 85thminute, so we at least molested
that one.
Um, because he was justknackered by that stage and was
just yanking someone down.
Um, all right, andy, you wantedto talk about football league
(44:36):
results.
There's been a whole lot offootball going on.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Well, even by everson have not been around, so tell
us what's going on there yeah,we touched on um, on leicester,
and their sort of mini collapsehas been quite remarkable.
10 or 11 weeks ago they were 15points clear at the top of the
championship and odds on to winthat league at a canter and get
(44:58):
promoted back to the PremierLeague.
At the first time of asking,however, dave had a bit of a
well, not a mini.
It started off as a mini slumpand it's now become quite a
large slump because, as I sithere now, they are currently
third and in the top two.
That will be a collapse ofquite monumental proportions and
(45:35):
again the financial impact thatit may or may not have on them
could be quite disastrous.
But I also would like to mentiontwo results from League One
today that just demonstrates howutterly wonderfully mad this
sport is that we uh, we love andadore so much.
Peterborough, who are fourth,were at home to carlisle united,
who are 24th and rock bottom ofleague one, and barnsley, who
(46:01):
are fifth, were home tocambridge united, who were were
home to Cambridge United, whowere 19th, and those results
finished Barnsley 0, cambridge 2, and Peterborough 1, carlisle 3
.
It's completely, absolutelybonkers.
Now, surprise results happenall the time.
(46:21):
We know that.
Every football fan has seenthem happen to their clubs.
But I just love seeing you knowscrolling through live school
and seeing results like that.
It just warms the cockles of myheart because it just shows
that for all the preparation andall the that people like us
talk about it and pundits and tvpeople, and all the preparation
(46:43):
that managers and players andcoaches do, when it's 11 against
11 on a pitch, with a goal ateither end of the ball, you just
never know what's going tohappen.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah absolutely In the Latvia-Lichtenstein game the
other day.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Oh that goal, that was a thing of beauty.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I haven't seen this.
What was it?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Sorry, andrew, go on.
What was it?
Sorry, andrew, go on, it wasyour thing.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, it was a friendly between Latvia and I
think it was Liechtenstein.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Liechtenstein, yeah, and basically Latvia.
I put the link in our WhatsAppgroup.
I'd urge you to have a look atit.
Basically, kick-off, basicallykick off Latvia and not playing
the ball around in theirdefensive area as you do, you
know, and one of the defenders,under absolutely no pressure at
all, just passes the ballstraight into his own net.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Oh yeah, the goalkeeper is out of position,
isn't he the goalkeeper?
Yeah, the defender was clear.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
They expected the goalkeeper to be in one area and
he wasn't, which was a problem.
Yeah, the defender was clearand expected the goalkeeper to
be in one area and he wasn't,which was a problem.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Yeah, and then your game plan is out of the window
within 14 seconds.
So sort of testament to yourpoint I want to mention.
I mean, this is incredible, youknow, like you know,
chesterfield, chesterfield, who,for listeners, who know who we
are, most of us grew up inMansfield, for, in my case,
(48:11):
nearly all of my life, for youguys, a lot of your lives and
obviously that's the next townalong, and they have just been
promoted with two months tospare, being 21 points clear of
the National League, and theyhave a.
They have a Everton low-kneeHarry Tyra in goal for them.
(48:32):
So well done to him and welldone to Chesterfield.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Well, that's awesome.
I just watched this lap vehicle.
I had to connect.
The reason why you said that isbecause I had to connect to a
VPN.
That's brilliant, becauseactually it's from such a tight
angle.
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And I love the celebration because it's not
even like an own goal where,like someone you know cause,
there's this thing where if youyou cross the ball in and a
defender heads it in, like youtake the celebration right, like
that's the people know what todo.
The, uh, the players here forwhoever, uh, you know, score the
goal.
I think it's a lot for you like, um, don't know, there was.
(49:14):
None of them were involved atall, so they have absolutely no
idea they just sort of gather.
They don't know who tocongratulate that guy, because
it's actually, really.
It's actually.
If you ask that guy to do like,stand where he's standing and
put that ball in the net ahundred times, he'd do it 10,
(49:35):
like it's like it's such anarrow angle.
Oh, that's brilliant.
It's um.
I was reminded the other day ofum.
I'll dig it out and put it inthe show notes the link to the
youtube of the, the absolutebest um own goal ever, which is
a guy playing for wales in the90s, I think, where you probably
never described, but you knowthe one I mean, where he
(49:56):
basically like the ball's sortof bobbling through and he's
going to do it clear anotherline and he's got loads of time,
so he controls it and tries toclear it but smashes it into the
top corner of the net basicallyfrom about two yards.
It's absolutely the best owngoal ever.
He controls it on it threeyards out and belts it into the
(50:18):
top corner.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
That's not a player called Wayne Hatswell.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Wayne Hatswell, that's who it is.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Isn't that the same, that that yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I know the goal.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
He actually controls the ball.
That's what makes that one.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Funny, he's under complete control.
Yeah, there's nowhere near him.
I mean, there's no one within10 yards of him.
He could do anything.
Seen this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch it now.
There was an everton one umyears ago.
There's a guy called paulholmes who played right back for
everton in like the early 90s,I think.
Terrible player, sure, he's alovely bloke.
(50:55):
Terrible footballer, um, whoduring one game I was at,
clearly after, immediate afterhalf time, was defending on the
edge of his own box, following acorner and controlled the ball
and took a shot because heobviously had a brain fail,
(51:16):
because there's only if you lookat it.
I don't know if this exists onYouTube, I can't remember who we
were playing, but if you watchit, it absolutely there's.
No, it is a shot.
He is trying to curl the ballinto the top corner of his own
neck.
But if you watch it like itabsolutely there's.
No, it is a shot.
He is trying to curl the ballinto the top corner of his own
neck because he's forgotten.
They've changed ends.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Which, to be totally fair, you sort of wonder why
that doesn't happen.
Doesn't happen more, more often?
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, or when players , like you know, sign for
another club and are playingtheir old club like really soon
afterwards yeah I said to thewrong people or something oh
yeah, like in fact I've playedfive a side where you've been
asked to like switch to theother team and it genuinely
takes a little bit of time tosort of adjust, like mentally,
to that where you're just likeright, I'm actually kicking the
other way now and I'm not gonnapass.
(52:04):
I'm going to pass to him.
And why the fuck are youtackling me?
Oh yeah, you're not on my team.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, it's you know.
But yeah, look up yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
I've just watched that.
I have seen that Hatswell onebefore.
It's brilliant yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
All right, anything else we should talk about before
we wrap up.
I'm sure we'll be back, youknow, back in in the mix of the
next three games at some point.
But anything else for today no,I'm good.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
No, that'll do for today, I think, for me all right
, good to see you guys.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
You know, rest assured, people, we've solved
the problem.
We're going to be uh, we'regoing to be top off by the end
of the month, according to theseguys guys, so everything's
under control.
You can rest easy.
Yeah, thanks for listening.
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcasts.
We are there, tell your friendswho follow the Blues and, yeah,
(52:59):
we'll see you in a few days.
Stay well.
Welcome to episode 71 of the Blues Brothers Everton
podcast.
Good to be back alongsideEverton, who are back tomorrow.
We recording this on friday the29th, so happy easter to those
who celebrate.
Um, I've enjoyed a day off forgood friday.
Uh, adam has as well, but hasbeen working and andrew's been
properly working.
So, um, my apologies to youguys who are having to do this
(00:39):
late, and I've had a busier daythan I have.
Um, ben's not here today.
Uh, he's got somethinginvolving being a dad.
I have no idea, uh, but that's,that was his excuse and he's.
He's sticking to it.
Um, adam, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm very well, thanks .
Yeah, I'm enjoying the uh, youknow, first day off of um of the
Easter holidays and, you know,as as you, as you said and sort
of implied that my work wasn'treal work, maybe jokingly, maybe
it didn't mean real work.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
No, no, no at all.
I think of all of them.
I mean the four of us.
You two have actual jobs, meand Ben have like nonsense
beat-up jobs.
So I don't think I would everdare imply that.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, I think to be fair, I think it was just the
order of the set.
The way the sentence was laidout suggested that and Andrew's
doing real work.
Yeah, I'm sure it won't be likethat every day, but yeah, it's
good to get things ticked offthe list early on though, and
then hopefully I can enjoy sometime off.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Great, awesome, andy, how are you?
How you doing?
I'm good, thank you, yeah, I um.
It's nice to be um back on apod again.
Obviously wasn't able to uhparticipate in the last one,
which I enjoyed listening to, um, so, yeah, looking forward to
uh chatting everton stuff for anhour or so awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I wonder who downloaded the last one.
Now, we know.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You did yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, it's not true.
Actually, quite a lot of peoplelisten to this, remarkably.
All right, so we're recordingthis Friday.
Everton have been off for threeweeks, as have we, and we're
back, but we're back with a nutsschedule.
We're going to talk about, uh,seven games before the end of
april which, uh, we're going togo through them are going to be
pretty important.
(02:28):
So we're going to talk aboutthat quite a lot today, I think.
And, uh, we want to start though, with because we sort of have
to, although it pains us to doit with psr and points
deductions.
Um, since we last were here, Ithink the forest news has come
since we were last here, I thinkI could.
Berest news has come since wewere last here I think I could
be wrong about that Forrest beendeducted four points.
(02:48):
Everton have, I think, now hadtheir second hearing.
I think it was earlier thisweek.
So we would expect to hear theanswer on that in the next
couple weeks.
With the way these things haveworked previously, once again,
you know the league table at thebottom is, you know, being
almost entirely determined bythe outcome of these panels and
(03:11):
the hearings.
And then we've got thesituation, obviously, with
Leicester again as well, whichis even more complicated,
believe it or not, and the oneus and Forrester.
And so, adam, I'll start withyou what's your take on the
Forrest situation and and whatyou think the implications might
be for for Everton and the restof the league?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
um, I think it's, you know, rather unfair on on uh,
on Everton because, um, and thisis nothing against Nottingham
Forrest, I think they've justsimply benefited from being
second in this sort of process.
I think we've, we've workedlyrical over the past few months
about the process, or lack ofprocess, of the premier league
(03:50):
and the you know parameters andlack of parameters that they've
put in and uh, to try and guide,guide the independent
commissions through this,through this sort of process and
, as um, you know, as our, asour appeal showed, you know, we
got a 40 reduction in in theinitial, initial thing.
(04:11):
So they, the independentcommissions, have been shown, at
least in the first instance,that they are, you know, they,
they interpreted the lawincorrectly, um, and that's
based on the Premier League'slack of clarity and we've talked
a lot about that.
So I think you know Forresthave said that they feel that
(04:35):
they're, you know they've beenharshly done by getting four
points and, to break it down,they got six points for the
breach, which I think it's fairto say now is the basic, that's
the sort of first rung on theladder, that you will get six
points regardless of how muchyou go over.
I think that's you know, andobviously Everton got that.
(04:57):
The Premier League sort ofdenied that that was the case,
but that's what Everton ended upgetting with their 10 points
initially, and then they got twotaken away through, sort of
because they were very open andyou know they were open and
honest and worked with thePremier League.
I yeah, I think I mean Forrestin particular I think that's a
(05:20):
fair, I think it's a fairpunishment would be the six
points.
If you're going to use Evertonas the barometer of these things
and you know you can arguewhether that six points is
initially fair in the firstplace.
But to give Forest like twopoints off because of how open
(05:42):
and honest they were, when itseems to me that Everton were
quite open and honest as well,and one of the key aspects of
Forrest's sort of pro that willbe their legal, that will be
their appeals process and theirdefence was that they wanted to
sell.
They would have sold BrendanJohnson earlier and he ended up
(06:03):
going.
But it would have meant thatthey would have sold Brennan
Johnson earlier, um, and heended up going, um, but it would
have meant that they would haveto accept a lower fee from uh,
I think it was Brentford andthey ended up selling them on
September 1st for about 47million to Spurs.
Now Everton were in that exactsame position with Richarlison,
um for the with the exact sameclub everton got.
(06:24):
Was it 60 million or potentially60 million for a charleston and
you know, you can, you can makea good case that he is a 60, a
plus 60 million pound player inthe current market and not
forest's defense is is is quiteincredible that that's the sort
(06:45):
of thing they were puttingforward.
It's like they're saying like,oh, we're a bit, but a business.
And some of the fans weretrying to argue and say like,
but that's what a businessshould do.
It's trying to maximize itsprofits.
It's like, well, all right, tryand tell hmrc that I'm I'm a
plumber.
And I go like, oh, I've gotthis job.
And it's like a few days afterthe tax thing, do you mind if I
just put them in a bit early soI can make a bit more money?
Please, let me show, I'll seeyou're going.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So you're going, go and run well, it's interesting,
there's an interestingperspective.
There isn't that because you'reright and like they.
They got two points backbecause they were like, yeah,
they were cooperative.
Now, and the brennan johnsonthing says that they were
cooperative to the point wherethey knew what they were doing
when they did it Exactly, andthat doesn't appear to be a
(07:28):
problem, right?
So you don't appear to getpunished more, which you would
normally in the course of legalstuff, and none of us are
lawyers, but we live in theworld and you know it's sort of
a wide understood thing.
If you do somethingintentionally, that is worse
than doing it unintentionallyRight, intent matters.
If you do somethingintentionally, that is worse
than doing it unintentionally.
Right, intent matters in thelaw and they're basically saying
(07:49):
, yeah, we knew we werebreaching, but we were doing,
but when we did this, but we didit, and then the premier go
well, no, you were really honestabout that.
So I have two points back.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So because, to take, to take that point to its nth
degree, it's the opposite ofwhat happens, um, in murder and
manslaughter cases, isn't it?
Because obviously it's likesomebody was found deliberately
killing somebody deliberatelyand not being prosecuted for
murder and somehow beingrewarded by you know and given a
(08:19):
reduction in their sentence.
Because it's completely arseabout it.
It really is, but again, itjust yeah, sorry, yeah, it just
again.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It just serves the serves, the um serves to the
point that we've made in thelast podcast where we talked
about how you've got thisindependent commission, which is
you know you can use the wordindependent in inverted commas
because they've got thisindependent commission which is,
you know you can use the wordindependent in inverted commas,
because they've got these peoplethat are interpreting these
guidelines in very different, invery different ways.
An independent commission saidthat 10 points would have been
(08:55):
fair for Everton when thePremier League predicated that
of having 12 points, predicatedthat of having 12 points.
And then, you know, the PremierLeague recommended eight points
, for I'm sure I read that theyrecommended eight points for
(09:16):
Forrest.
I don't think that was madepublic until after the, until
after the commission's ruling.
Then they gave six and thenawarded two.
But yeah, you're absolutelyright, it's like they weren't
honest about.
They weren't honest about thething.
They literally tried to cheatthe process.
Yeah, it's like they.
They must have known at thepoint when the when in in june,
when, when the account, when youhad to submit your accounts or
(09:39):
the next accounting windowstarted in june, that oh shit,
we've still got.
We've still got brendan johnsonlike they must.
They must have known, becausethey had the choice of selling
him beforehand and they chosenot to um about it.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I mean you sort of get to thinking that like there
shouldn't really be mitigationsat all.
Right, because you know you,you could, I could get on board
with a system that said youoverspend by.
There's some formula which is,if you overspend, we could have
sold this player then, oractually we, we wrote a bet.
(10:15):
I mean, you know, baz fromToffee TV was on the Sky fan
debate, the overlap fan debate,which is great.
It's become my favorite sort offootball show that the Gary
(10:37):
Neville show and, like you know,baz was on there and he said,
basically, forrest wrote abetter email to the Premier
League, so they get two pointsback Now.
And you say, basically, forrestwrote a better email to the
Premier League, so they get twopoints back.
Now imagine if you're Luton Townand they go down by a point and
you're like well, that judgmentwas the entire reason for us
being in the Premier League ornot.
It's kind of ludicrous.
You'd almost rather have asystem where you say it doesn't
matter whether you cooperate,don't cooperate, do whatever.
(10:59):
It is a purely factual process.
Did you spend x amount of money?
Therefore, you lose y number ofpoints because the other
interesting thing that came fromthe fan debate where they were
talking about this is the guywho's on there was the forest
fan.
These are all people who arelike.
You know podcast, youtube.
People from the clubs saidbasically he thinks forest made
(11:20):
the right judgment because ifthey hadn't have spent all that
money, they wouldn't have stayedin the league.
And actually, four points.
You know we'll probably makethat up by having you know like,
but it's basically worth it nowthat if you're the premier
league, that should scare theshit out of you, because if, if
you're creating a system wherethe clubs are going to be like
yeah, okay, we'll just pay theprice in points because it's not
(11:40):
that big a deal, that's a realproblem absolutely, that's a
massive problem because it'sthen the off-field equivalent of
a tactical foul to break up apromising counter-attack by the
opposition, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And managers treating yellow cards as being part of
the game.
I mean, I'm convinced now,having listened to lots of
debate and lots of people talkabout it, my understanding is
the clubs lots of people talkabout it my understanding is the
clubs that you know, when theyvoted the PSR rules in, didn't
want a regimented regime ofsanction.
(12:11):
But I'm convinced they didn'tfully understand the
circumstances of what mighthappen.
Um, you know around that, andobviously the chaos that's
engulfing the bottom of thepremier league now is is
testament to the fact that aproper regimented sanctions
regime would offer clarity.
(12:32):
Yeah, now it would have to berobust enough to make sure that
clubs didn't take the mickey inthe manner that you've just
described.
Austin, where the clubs aregonna go, yeah, we can overspend
, and the player that weoverspend by gets us enough
points to outweigh any potentialpoints deductions.
So therefore it's worth doing,because the current situation is
(12:54):
just absolutely untenable.
I mean, it's not beyond therealms of possibility that we
could enter May and Forrestwould still have to have their
appeal heard.
We might appeal our secondhearing, depending on what the
outcome of that is.
(13:14):
And then, as you say, you'vegot clubs at the bottom.
One of the biggest things inSky's coverage of the Premier
League is the race for survival,the battle to stay in the
Premier League.
The biggest things in sort of,you know, sky's coverage of the
premier league is that, you know, race for survival, the battle
to stay in the premier league.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well, this season that could be rendered
meaningless on the last day Ithink you're right and I don't
think there's a chance that itisn't.
Because, if you think about it,right that forest have appealed
ever unless everton get nonothing, unless the answer the
commission is you have nopunishment, which I cannot see,
then Everton are going to appealas well, because why would you
not?
The cost of appealing is you'vegot to pay some lawyers, right?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
The only thing about that is if Everton were to get I
mean first we don't know howbig Everton's breach is first it
could be relatively, it couldbe six million pounds.
Be relatively, it could be sixmillion pounds, yeah now.
Now I accept adam's point thatyou know a minimum, you know six
point um penalty for merelybreaching is the benchmark.
But if you looked I don't seeif everton's breach is on the
(14:17):
relatively small side andobviously I'm speculating
because we don't know.
But if it is on the small, thenyou would imagine that we
couldn't get more than threepoints for that, in which case
the club might go well.
If Everton get two or three,they might go well.
But why would you not feel?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
yeah, well, you know, because I understand, like I
agree, but like you, because Imean, I think, I mean I guess
the answer is answer my questionthat in theory, I think an
appeal can actually increaseyour punishment.
I think yeah, because it is are-review, basically, of another
panel.
I don't think it's the casethat it can only be reduced, but
I'd be very surprised if we,maybe, if we got one point, they
(15:01):
might go okay, it's not worthit.
But if it's like two or three,I'd be very surprised if we,
maybe, if we got one point, theymight go okay, it's not worth
it, but if it's like two orthree, I'd be surprised.
I just think that they'vecreated a system where you
almost want to sort of do theappeal at the same time, like
you could almost say, well,we're going to have two panels.
Right, take the average.
You know what I mean, becauseyou are going to, you are going
to appeal, but when people areconvicted of crimes, you can't
(15:28):
just appeal anything and look,I'm sounding like I'm a lawyer,
I'm really not, but I've spentenough time around them.
You have to appeal on somebasis of law, right?
You can't appeal that you justdon't like the decision a jury
gave to find you guilty.
I want another go.
You've got to point out thatthere's some question that the
process wasn't followed.
This isn't the case here.
They have an automatic right toappeal, which again actually
(15:50):
doesn't make any sense.
So I think they probably will.
So to fast forward to your point, andy, which I completely agree
with, I cannot see a situation,the only situation, where it's
not going to be wrapped up inlitigation and you know, at the
end of the year and be a whole acomplete clusterfuck, is if the
(16:11):
gap between the third bottomteam if it's luton is more than
between them and the next teamup, is more than the number of
points that team got deducted.
Yeah, like that, that's the,it's that.
And I can't see that becauseever's in a pro, we're gonna end
up with, like what?
Seven or eight points deducted.
Are we gonna finish seven oreight points ahead of maybe,
(16:33):
maybe not, you know, like forestfour, like they?
It's very, very unlikely.
So not only are you gonna, asyou rightly say, the drama is
gonna be gone entirely, becausethe on-field stuff is going to
not matter.
In the same way I said this allthe way through you are going
to have a summer of people suingpeople as well.
(16:53):
Because if you're Luton and youget relegated by one point
because the Premier League gaveNottingham Forest two points
back in a mitigation which theyapplied in one case for us but
not in another case evertonbecause everton were found in
our appeal to have cooperatedbut were not given any points
back for mitigation for that,then you're gonna lutein, are
(17:16):
gonna go.
Well, you know that's that I'mgonna sue you for the the
financial impact of beingrelegated because you've not
treated me fairly.
So I think the premier leagueare heading full on to.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I can't see how there isn't a situation over the
summer where there are justcourt cases and it's a complete
mess I can't remember any pointof the last few years where um,
where the, where the teams it'snot gone down into, like the
last, the last game of theseason or the last two games of
the season, ie, where the gaphas been more than six points.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't remember any time of that
where it's been like that no, Ican't recall any any season
where that scenario has happened.
Obviously there's been caseswhere the team finishing bottom
and second bottom have been cutor drift.
Certainly the team finishingbottom, yeah, but bottom have
been cut adrift, certainly theteam finishing bottom, but
there's always been a relativelysmall gap between the club in
(18:08):
17th and 18th, sometimes by goaldifference, obviously, as we
found out in the 97-98 season.
So, yeah, I agree with Austinentirely and the thing as well.
I mean this is really bad.
You know the Premier League,you know copyright, the best
(18:30):
league in the world is.
You know this is really bad fortheir brand and their business
model and all that sort of stuff.
Because I can remember when Ifirst started watching first
memories of football in the late80s, the Italian league was
(18:50):
where all the big money was andwhere all the big players went
to and that was the league inEurope that had the most
prestige and then various.
You know everything's cyclicallyin life, so things change
anyway but they had somefinancial irregularities
involving corruption and bravadomatch officials.
And the Italian League now isstill, you know, one of the top
(19:12):
five leagues, but it's waybehind the Premier League in
terms of attendances and revenueand the players it attracts.
So the Premier League I'veprobably made made this well, I
know I've made this point onprevious pods.
They've got to be reallycareful about because nothing in
life lasts forever.
(19:33):
Nothing is, you know, is gonna.
So their revenues have gone upand up and up over the last sort
of 20 or 30 years and I think Iwonder if there's an
expectation that's just going tocarry on.
There's no guarantee it's goingto carry on and one of the
things that might mean itdoesn't carry on is them
completely messing up thesituation around the profit and
(19:57):
sustainability rules.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Well, because you make the legal exciting right.
That's the risk.
You stop making the in theoryand I understand rules well,
because you make the leagueunexciting, right.
That's the risk.
Yes, you stop being making thein theory and I understand not
that there should be rules right, there should be rules around
spending like.
I'm not against that inprinciple, but you, you want the
, the, the outcome, to bedictated by what happens on the
pitch and the moment you changethat.
I think that's the thingthey've sleepwalked into, but
(20:22):
with points deductions ratherthan financial penalties,
because people talk aboutfinancial penalties aren't
meaningful.
I completely disagree.
I completely disagree.
If you clobber someone with abig financial penalty that they,
that that goes against like,that, that goes against their
like is effectively consideredtransfer spending right for the
purposes of it, then actuallythat would be really tough.
(20:42):
But by by making it pointsdeductions, they've created this
.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
They've they've, I think, walked without thinking
into a situation where the, thedrama, happens in a courtroom,
in a closed courtroom yeah, yeahit's not a good sport,
obviously no exactly and I think, um, I mean they're, they're in
a bit of a pickle withLeicester as well.
Who are, you know, in troublebecause of their?
(21:08):
I mean, obviously they've beenimploded on the pitch.
You know, andrew, you made thepoint before the podcast of them
being a few weeks ago.
They were a few months ago,rather, they were, you know, 15
points clear at the top of thechampionship and now they've
dropped out of the top two.
So things aren't going well forthem on the pitch.
But also they've got, obviously, their.
They've been charged withbreaking PSR as well, which is
(21:29):
sort of inevitable given they.
I think it was like in the lastPremier League season that they
were in.
Last season they didn't spend apenny on transfers.
I think a lot of theirs comesfrom their training ground.
I think it was that they'vebuilt.
But there's a question mark overLeicester whether they get the
(21:53):
punishment now in theChampionship or whether they get
it in the Premier League, andthere's arguments about who has
the jurisdiction over that sortof punishment and and the sort
of, and obviously then you'vegot all the ramifications of
(22:14):
well, how will that impact?
How that impact championshipclubs when they spent that money
in the prime when they were inthe Premier League, and how
Championship clubs may benefitor be punished as an indirect
result of, or a direct result,rather, of the fact that they
get they might get pointsdeducted in the Championship
when the Championship clubs had.
(22:35):
You know, they weren't in theChampionship at the time.
So they've created this mess,complete mess, for themselves,
where they've put theseguidelines, they've had these
PSR rules and gone.
It's almost like they've gone.
Like we've made this pointbefore in the previous podcast.
I don't think anyone canpossibly lose 150 million each
(22:56):
season over three seasons.
I think it's impossible to dothat.
It's like they almost neverthought this would ever actually
come into place and now they've.
Now they're panicking becausethey actually do have to provide
some clarity and guidance andthey're just showing that
they're incapable of doing it.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, yeah, and lester statements around this
issue as well have been reallyinteresting in the sense of
they've been really bullish.
And I mean, as far as they'reconcerned, the gloves are off
because Everton and Forreststatements around their
respective charges have, youknow, said the right words
around, you know beingdisappointed and you know made
(23:34):
their displeasure quite plain.
But Leicester's statements havebeen on another level and
they've been sort of activelyquestioning the jurisdiction of
the Premier League and the PSRrules as to whether they can
apply to a club in Leicester'scircumstances.
And again you've got to wonderbear in mind what a cack-handed
(23:55):
job the Premier League have donewith this entire process Is
there a clause in the PremierLeague sorry, is there a clause
in the PSR rules that enablesthem to to take action against a
club in Leicester's situation?
Now, you you assume that thereis, but none of us would be
surprised if it transpired thatthere wasn't.
(24:17):
And Leicester absolutely rightin questioning the validity of
the process, which adds moregrist to the mill, which is what
austin said about it.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You can't see anything other than a summer of
of clubs taking action againstvarious government bodies for
various aspects of the processyeah, it's going to be, I think
the, believe it or not, I reallythink the messiest part of this
is still to come.
Yeah, I think, after it allgets done.
I mean because I meanabsolutely.
I mean the fact, and we'll moveon from this, dear listener,
(24:50):
very quickly, I promise you.
But just the fact that, like,this whole process is run by
absolute boneheads isdemonstrated by the fact that
the deadline for the appeals tobe resolved is a week after the
season ends.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Because it's timed around their annual shareholder
meeting.
Right, that's why that's whenthat is because they have a
share.
So it's like because they haveto know who's.
So they like oh, we need toknow who's in the league or not
ahead of the shareholder meeting.
Right, that's like.
(25:28):
No, it's like you need to gofor the fans because you're an
entertainment product.
So they could have said I mean,they've made the.
They're gonna say it has to betwo weeks earlier than that and
it's a week before the seasonends.
So, going into the last week,you know what the score is.
They're just so.
I mean, these people are dumb asa rock.
I mean, there's absolutely.
You know richard masters is amarketing guy who's in so far
(25:48):
above his head and you know it'sbecome widely known in football
circles that he's not.
You know that the clubs havelost faith in him and you, you
can see.
You can see why.
Anyway, I promise we move onand we will.
Let's talk about everton.
So I'm going to read you guys,we have currently, as we sit
recording this, now we have 25points from 28 games, so we have
(26:11):
a game in hand against most ofthe team around us.
That game in hand is againstLiverpool.
So let's not, let's not get toooverexcited about that.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
25 points, Forest 21.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Lut 25 points, forrest 21.
Luton 22.
As discussed, forrest Could beon 21, could be on something
else, we could be on 25, couldbe on something else.
Anyway, that's where we are.
I'm going to read you thefixtures we have coming up
between now and the next fourweeks, four weeks plus change.
And then we're going to gothrough them and we ask you guys
(26:42):
what you think we're gonna getfrom each one and we're gonna
work out whether we're gonna getrelegated on.
And I say I, I believe, as youpeople have been listening to
this pod long enough now Ibelieve it's impossible that
forever, since you get relegated, because we live in a
simulation and the simulationhas rules and one of the rules
is evertonians will neverreceive the sweet release of
death.
(27:02):
But we actually got relegated.
It would be fine like we'd bein the championship, we'd play
football, we'd win games,everything would be fine.
But we never get to experiencethat we have to be tortured.
So, uh, tomorrow, uh, balmothaway.
Tuesday, newcastle away.
Next sat, burnley at home.
(27:23):
So we've got three games in aweek.
Then we've got Chelsea away,forest at home, liverpool at
home, brentford at home.
So those seven games coming up,let's go through.
I mean, we normally do this atthe end, but as we're doing them
in a group, we'll do it now.
What do we think about theBournemouth result?
(27:44):
Let's do some quick fire.
What do we think the results ofthese games are going to be?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
I think we I mean, I'm just going to go full
Lawrenson on this until we win,and I think we're going to win
because we have to win at somepoint and Bournemouth are a good
team and I think they've donewell with their sort of gamble,
(28:12):
getting rid of Gary O'Neill atthe start of the season and
brought in a guy whose name Ican never, ever, ever, ever
remember.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Andoni Iraiola.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Thank you, andrew.
Very good, he got his firstname, Very impressive, and so
they're a good team.
But I just think that they will, that our luck's got to turn at
some point and we will win 1-0.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Okay, andy, what do you think about Bournemouth?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, it's going to be a more difficult game than
the reverse fixture was atGoodison, because that was right
at the start of the season andthe Bournemouth players then
were clearly struggling to adaptto Iriola's methods.
But that has clicked now andthey're a they're, they're,
they're a decent outfit.
(29:06):
So this is not going to be aneasy game.
Having said that, we've saidmany times on previous podcasts
that everton's underlyingperformances generally are are
are reasonably good.
Um, all the, all the metricsare in the right direction.
We just can't, we just can'tscore.
Sooner or later, though, I, I Ihave faith that we will start
(29:29):
scoring.
So I'm going to say I'm goingto let my my head over my no, my
heart over on my head on this.
I'm going to say we're going towin 2-1.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you guys both think we're going to win 2-1.
Okay, All right.
So you guys both think we'regoing to win.
What about Newcastle away?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Adam, yeah, that'll be a trickier one.
So I think, based on the factthat we will beat Bournemouth
and get that monkey off our back, I think we'll then go and lose
that, just to put the pressureright back on us.
Andy.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, that's obviously going to be a tougher
game.
I mean, newcastle aren'tpulling up any trees though
their season compared to lastseason they'll be disappointed
with and they've got a wholehost of players out injured.
I mean they've had sufferedinjuries for a good chunk of the
season In a world where wedon't have a points deduction.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
we're only five points behind Newcastle.
We're nine because we got fourpoints back.
Ignore me, Please carry on.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So, yeah, it's, yeah.
I, as much as I can't see uswinning that game, we might get
a draw, we might get a nil-nilup there.
So I'll go for that nil-nil,which will do me nicely.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
All right.
So then the next one's Burnley.
At home, We've got to beatBurnley, right?
The three of us would give that.
Yes, agree, ad, okay,absolutely Right.
So Chelsea away.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
We'll beat Chelsea because Chelsea are a.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Adam's got us in the jam.
He really has gone full.
They won't get up.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I'm hitting my Mark Lawrenson button again.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I mean Chelsea are obviously the sort of team the
epitome of you never know who'sgoing to turn up.
They can either be Brazil, 1970or Bognor Regis from 1970.
Did Bognor Regis have a club in1970?
I've no idea, but for thepurpose of this conversation
they did.
Again, I have every confidence.
Club in 1970?
I've no idea, but for thepurpose of this conversation
(31:45):
they did.
Yeah, again, I have everyconfidence that we'll go there
and do what we do well, which isdigging deep low block, defend
quite well, and it's up to ifChelsea can break us down or not
.
Again, I'd be happy with itwith a draw there.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay, all right uh Forrest at home big game.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think that's another one we've got to look,
got to look to win and Adam,what do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think you're on mute Ad.
It does limit the impact on thepodcast.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It does.
Yeah, I mean I could sign.
I mean I have two problems withthat.
We're on a podcast and I canonly do the alphabet, thank you.
So yeah, yeah, I think we'llbeat Forest.
I think home advantage big game.
I think obviously ourselves andForest will be still very much
(32:51):
in the thick of it around thattime and Goodison will be like a
bear pit around then,presumably, liverpool are going
to batter us, because that'swhat they do.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Anyone disagree with that?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, we're going to get tanked.
I've written it off becauseClark and also the also the
media will be going absolutelybananas for Klopp in his last
derby away.
So we've got to fight againstthat as well.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and obviously, unless they have a collapse
between now and then, they'regoing to be in the shout for the
league title.
I mean, what I will say is thatobviously I mean you know,
eight o'clock kickoff on aWednesday night I mean
Goodison's going to be anabsolute bear pit for that game.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm trying to go for that.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We're going to try Well obviously it's me or you
plus dad.
So yeah, if you to go, then goahead.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, people say I've always said I grew up, you know
you'll remember this interview.
Say a form goes out the windowat Derby, does it shit?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
No, it really doesn't .
It really doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
We haven't beaten them at Goodison since 2010.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's ludicrous.
All right, so we're going tolose.
Now Brentford, now I'm going tothis game so I can tell you
it's going to be a draw, becausethat's what happens when I, the
last four times no, I, watchedus beat West Ham away last
season.
Every other game I've seen inthe last two years has been a
draw, every single one, and Ithink I've seen six.
So, uh, if you want to deviate,want to make an argument that
(34:31):
I'll see everton win, I'm hereto hear it I mean, I've the
games I've seen this season.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I've I've been to three and we've lost them all.
Um, so you're doing better thanme.
I went to Fulham where webattered them and lost 1-0, and
then lost to City at home fairdues.
And then what was the last homegame where we?
It wasn't the last home game,it was the one before West Ham,
whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Me and you went to Palace Palace.
That was it.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That was a draw.
That was a one-all draw.
It felt like a loss because ofthe fact that it did because it
was terrible.
And it was shit.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Okay, do you think we're going to beat Brentford?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Are we home or away?
We're home Home, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
All right, adam thinks we're going to beat
Brentford.
Andy, have you been?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
telling us our points .
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I am telling up yes, and there'll be a record, and
this will be revisited at theend of the season or again it's
it, I, I think I'm going to sayI'm going to be all the hell
with it.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I'm going to say, yes , we're going to beat brentford.
It's going to be two nil okay.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So let me tell you I mean me, dear listeners, to do
some quick mathematics Four,seven, eight, 11, 14.
Okay, so you guys believe, adam, you believe we're going to get
15 points from these sevengames.
Yes, you believe we're going toget 14 points from these seven,
(36:09):
which would be a dramaticimprovement.
I just want to point that out.
But if we did, if we did, if,adam, you were right we would
immediately be on 40 points,absolutely clear at the
relegation zone, and you'd haveus on 39, equally clear.
So, job done, Easy peasy, to befair.
I mean like all right, that'slike whatever just like just
(36:34):
over two points a game for me,which is, you would win the
league if you played like thatthe entire season.
That's what you're talkingabout.
You're talking aboutcomfortable Champions League
form that we're suddenly goingto adopt.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Hey, we adapted it.
We won four games on the bounceback in December and we've been
on the worst.
I think it's like the jointworst run in our entire history
at the minute.
So I thought our looks got tochange.
I've caveated most of thesethings with the fact that I've
gone Lawrenson on it.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I appreciate the optimism.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Go ahead, Andy.
I mean obviously those sevengames that we've just outlined.
If we get 10 points from those,that will put us on 35.
Yeah, With going into May andaway game at Luton and a home
game against Sheffield United.
Still to come, game againstSheffield.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
United still to come.
No, this is the key.
The key thing I was going tosort of wrap this up is joking
aside, we have got to playBurnley at home, forest at home,
brentford at home, sheffieldUnited at home.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
If we cannot muster 12 or 13 fucking points, we
don't deserve to be in theleague.
You know, that is like pointsdeductions aside.
We should be able to.
We should win all of thosegames.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That should be our.
That should be the standardwe're setting, absolutely yeah.
Yeah, I'd agree.
Everything else that's gone onthis season, you know, points
deductions, potential secondpoints deductions, our inability
to hit a cow's ass with a banjoin terms of putting the ball in
the net.
There are enough points stillto play for at the end of the
season.
It's still in our hands,regardless of any other
(38:20):
extenuating circumstances, andif we can't get enough points
from our remaining certainlyhome fixtures, then quite
frankly, we we deserve to berelegated and then it sets up
perfectly because we're playingarsenal away at the end of the
season and we love nothing morethan getting absolutely fucked
by arsenal.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Absolutely, it's like a tradition.
I mean, remember that game atthe year we actually we
qualified for the fuckingChampions League.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Well, it's funny 7-0.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It's funny.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
They were literally all still hung over.
Oh, they were.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I listened to an Everton FC podcast today about
Everton's goalkeepers over thelast sort of 50 or 60 years and
that game was actually mentionedbecause we lost.
I think it was 7-0.
Yeah, it was 7-0.
And one of the I think it wasDave Prentice, who was working
(39:16):
for the Echo at the time saidEverton's man of the match by a
country mile was the goalkeeper,Richard Wright, Because it
happened to be for him.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It was Nigel Martin.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Was it Nigel Martin, I think so.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Richard Wright had left by then, I think he left.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Well, they mentioned a lot of goalkeepers in the
course of 45 minutes, butwhoever it was was our man of
the match, because it would havebeen, you know, easily double
figures.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So it's actually a perfect Everton season.
I think we'll avoid relegation,either against Luton or
Sheffield United.
Third game to go, second gameto go, and then Arsenal will set
a record against us.
If you're an Arsenal fan,you'll listen to this.
Don't know where you would beif you are Unless.
You're worried about going downto the wire or you think maybe
(40:06):
goal difference might matter.
Do not worry, we've got you arefine.
That's right, because you aregoing to set a fucking record.
Yeah, all right, so you guysthink we're all going to be fine
, great, um, okay, any of theeverton stuff we want to talk
about, because the and you wantto talk about football league
stuff a little bit, which I wantto do, but any of the Everton
stuff we want to talk about,because, andy, you want to talk
about Football League stuff alittle bit, which I want to do,
(40:27):
but any of the Everton stuff weshould talk about.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
The only thing who plays right back against.
Well, bournemouth have theforthcoming fixtures Because I
believe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isColwyn fit again, did he?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
play for Ireland the other day.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
We've done so much, we're so professional.
There's so much crap.
Come and Google it yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
People listen to us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
But the reason I ask is isDyche clearly doesn't fancy
Patterson at all, because heclearly would have played him in
lots, of you know, previousfixtures?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And apparently he bunched him in lots of you know,
previous fixtures andapparently he punched him and
apparently yeah, apparently.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
well, playful slap that ended up being a bit harder
.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
I work in communications.
A playful slap is a very yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But anyway, so clearly doesn't you know?
Fancy him on the you know onthe pitch.
Fancy him on the pitch.
Ben Godfrey's been right back,but he's not pulled up any trees
in terms of his performances,so you can make a strong case
that the best right back of thethree players you could really
(41:40):
see.
Obviously you could play AshleyYoung there as well, I suppose.
But out of all the availableoptions, 60 grand Seamus Coleman
is Ashley Young there as well,I suppose.
But out of all the availableoptions, 60 grand Seamus Coleman
is still the best one.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Coleman is fit according to my hasty Right, so
I would expect him to.
But he's not going to play threegames in seven days.
So you know, and I think, justthinking about again you know
which, we've spent a lot of timeworking at the fixtures I can
see Dyche really prioritisingtomorrow and then next Saturday
over Newcastle away, you know,and I think that's probably
(42:13):
right because you're going to.
So you know, I think we willsee Ashley Owen play a role at
some point, but I don't know.
That's something that'sinteresting because I think
Dyche has shown with you know,with what's his name, god centre
half just made the Englandsquad that he will give.
(42:38):
You know, he's not contrary tohis reputation, a little bit
he's not close to young playersand Paterson, he is like giving
game time to.
He just seems reticent to starthim, but maybe his hand, for
the reason that you, you raiseandy, his hand might be forced
right because it's going to be.
It's tough, I think, to playashley young right back in a
game you're trying to win.
(42:58):
Yeah, because I just think hegives you so little going
forward that I think that andhe's dice has been burned a
couple of times by that alreadyColeman, obviously, we know, can
do that and is a, you know, isjust the best at it.
I think Patterson may get anopportunity at some point, just
through necessity, yeah yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I think I think he's obviously had a lot of time out
where he's not been starting.
I think injuries will probablyforce his hand.
I think he made a mistakeagainst Scotland in their latest
fixture against NorthernIreland, which has obviously
(43:43):
probably not helped things, butI think he deserves another
chance.
I think he's a good player.
I think he's just, I thinktactically.
I just don't think Dyche.
I think Dyche has worries abouthim sticking to the system that
he wants him to play and youcan imagine, knowing where to be
(44:03):
at any point in the game is thefirst and foremost
consideration for for Daishin inselecting his, selecting his
teams.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, no, I, I think you know that I can.
Yeah, yeah, he completed 90minutes.
I was just I was doing furtherresearch because I'm dedicated
to accuracy on this podcast.
He completed 90 minutes, or hewas booked in the 85th minute,
so we at least lasted that onebecause he was 90 minutes.
Or he was booked in the 85thminute, so we at least molested
that one.
Um, because he was justknackered by that stage and was
just yanking someone down.
Um, all right, andy, you wantedto talk about football league
(44:36):
results.
There's been a whole lot offootball going on.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Well, even by everson have not been around, so tell
us what's going on there yeah,we touched on um, on leicester,
and their sort of mini collapsehas been quite remarkable.
10 or 11 weeks ago they were 15points clear at the top of the
championship and odds on to winthat league at a canter and get
(44:58):
promoted back to the PremierLeague.
At the first time of asking,however, dave had a bit of a
well, not a mini.
It started off as a mini slumpand it's now become quite a
large slump because, as I sithere now, they are currently
third and in the top two.
That will be a collapse ofquite monumental proportions and
(45:35):
again the financial impact thatit may or may not have on them
could be quite disastrous.
But I also would like to mentiontwo results from League One
today that just demonstrates howutterly wonderfully mad this
sport is that we uh, we love andadore so much.
Peterborough, who are fourth,were at home to carlisle united,
who are 24th and rock bottom ofleague one, and barnsley, who
(46:01):
are fifth, were home tocambridge united, who were were
home to Cambridge United, whowere 19th, and those results
finished Barnsley 0, cambridge 2, and Peterborough 1, carlisle 3
.
It's completely, absolutelybonkers.
Now, surprise results happenall the time.
(46:21):
We know that.
Every football fan has seenthem happen to their clubs.
But I just love seeing you knowscrolling through live school
and seeing results like that.
It just warms the cockles of myheart because it just shows
that for all the preparation andall the that people like us
talk about it and pundits and tvpeople, and all the preparation
(46:43):
that managers and players andcoaches do, when it's 11 against
11 on a pitch, with a goal ateither end of the ball, you just
never know what's going tohappen.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah absolutely In the Latvia-Lichtenstein game the
other day.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Oh that goal, that was a thing of beauty.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I haven't seen this.
What was it?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Sorry, andrew, go on.
What was it?
Sorry, andrew, go on, it wasyour thing.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, it was a friendly between Latvia and I
think it was Liechtenstein.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Liechtenstein, yeah, and basically Latvia.
I put the link in our WhatsAppgroup.
I'd urge you to have a look atit.
Basically, kick-off, basicallykick off Latvia and not playing
the ball around in theirdefensive area as you do, you
know, and one of the defenders,under absolutely no pressure at
all, just passes the ballstraight into his own net.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Oh yeah, the goalkeeper is out of position,
isn't he the goalkeeper?
Yeah, the defender was clear.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
They expected the goalkeeper to be in one area and
he wasn't, which was a problem.
Yeah, the defender was clearand expected the goalkeeper to
be in one area and he wasn't,which was a problem.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Yeah, and then your game plan is out of the window
within 14 seconds.
So sort of testament to yourpoint I want to mention.
I mean, this is incredible, youknow, like you know,
chesterfield, chesterfield, who,for listeners, who know who we
are, most of us grew up inMansfield, for, in my case,
(48:11):
nearly all of my life, for youguys, a lot of your lives and
obviously that's the next townalong, and they have just been
promoted with two months tospare, being 21 points clear of
the National League, and theyhave a.
They have a Everton low-kneeHarry Tyra in goal for them.
(48:32):
So well done to him and welldone to Chesterfield.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Well, that's awesome.
I just watched this lap vehicle.
I had to connect.
The reason why you said that isbecause I had to connect to a
VPN.
That's brilliant, becauseactually it's from such a tight
angle.
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And I love the celebration because it's not
even like an own goal where,like someone you know cause,
there's this thing where if youyou cross the ball in and a
defender heads it in, like youtake the celebration right, like
that's the people know what todo.
The, uh, the players here forwhoever, uh, you know, score the
goal.
I think it's a lot for you like, um, don't know, there was.
(49:14):
None of them were involved atall, so they have absolutely no
idea they just sort of gather.
They don't know who tocongratulate that guy, because
it's actually, really.
It's actually.
If you ask that guy to do like,stand where he's standing and
put that ball in the net ahundred times, he'd do it 10,
(49:35):
like it's like it's such anarrow angle.
Oh, that's brilliant.
It's um.
I was reminded the other day ofum.
I'll dig it out and put it inthe show notes the link to the
youtube of the, the absolutebest um own goal ever, which is
a guy playing for wales in the90s, I think, where you probably
never described, but you knowthe one I mean, where he
(49:56):
basically like the ball's sortof bobbling through and he's
going to do it clear anotherline and he's got loads of time,
so he controls it and tries toclear it but smashes it into the
top corner of the net basicallyfrom about two yards.
It's absolutely the best owngoal ever.
He controls it on it threeyards out and belts it into the
(50:18):
top corner.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
That's not a player called Wayne Hatswell.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Wayne Hatswell, that's who it is.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Isn't that the same, that that yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I know the goal.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
He actually controls the ball.
That's what makes that one.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Funny, he's under complete control.
Yeah, there's nowhere near him.
I mean, there's no one within10 yards of him.
He could do anything.
Seen this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch it now.
There was an everton one umyears ago.
There's a guy called paulholmes who played right back for
everton in like the early 90s,I think.
Terrible player, sure, he's alovely bloke.
(50:55):
Terrible footballer, um, whoduring one game I was at,
clearly after, immediate afterhalf time, was defending on the
edge of his own box, following acorner and controlled the ball
and took a shot because heobviously had a brain fail,
(51:16):
because there's only if you lookat it.
I don't know if this exists onYouTube, I can't remember who we
were playing, but if you watchit, it absolutely there's.
No, it is a shot.
He is trying to curl the ballinto the top corner of his own
neck.
But if you watch it like itabsolutely there's.
No, it is a shot.
He is trying to curl the ballinto the top corner of his own
neck because he's forgotten.
They've changed ends.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Which, to be totally fair, you sort of wonder why
that doesn't happen.
Doesn't happen more, more often?
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, or when players , like you know, sign for
another club and are playingtheir old club like really soon
afterwards yeah I said to thewrong people or something oh
yeah, like in fact I've playedfive a side where you've been
asked to like switch to theother team and it genuinely
takes a little bit of time tosort of adjust, like mentally,
to that where you're just likeright, I'm actually kicking the
other way now and I'm not gonnapass.
(52:04):
I'm going to pass to him.
And why the fuck are youtackling me?
Oh yeah, you're not on my team.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, it's you know.
But yeah, look up yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
I've just watched that.
I have seen that Hatswell onebefore.
It's brilliant yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
All right, anything else we should talk about before
we wrap up.
I'm sure we'll be back, youknow, back in in the mix of the
next three games at some point.
But anything else for today no,I'm good.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
No, that'll do for today, I think, for me all right
, good to see you guys.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
You know, rest assured, people, we've solved
the problem.
We're going to be uh, we'regoing to be top off by the end
of the month, according to theseguys guys, so everything's
under control.
You can rest easy.
Yeah, thanks for listening.
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcasts.
We are there, tell your friendswho follow the Blues and, yeah,
(52:59):
we'll see you in a few days.
Stay well.
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