Derby Memories, Man United Hopes

We reflect on the derby, that goal, in that stadium, and preview Everton's game against Man United on Saturday.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to episode 80-something of the Blues
Brothers Everton podcast.
We think it might be 83.
So great to be here.
I'm in New York, ben, you're inDC, right?
I think I'm right in sayingthat.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am currently in DC.
I'm going to Florida on Fridaybecause it's my birthday, so I'm
flying down there.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
So it's your birthday , ben's birthday, tomorrow, not
Friday.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
It is my birthday, so he's going for his birthday.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
We're recording this on wednesday uh 19th.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Adam, you're in london for a few days with l.
Yes, yeah, yeah, going to uh,you can see the play that goes
wrong.
Always wanted to see it.
Um, starring sean dyche.
Uh, go and see that uh tomorrow, and then go into the natural
History Museum and BritishMuseum yeah, Excellent.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Elle's promised not to heckle too much, but you know
we don't believe her, so let'stalk about Everton.
Everything's great, isn't itgreat?
It's great to be an Everton fan.
So we're going to talk aboutthe Derby a little bit.
Before we do that, andy can'tjoin us.
He's working, but he was at thederby a little bit before we do
that.
Uh, andy can't join us.
He's working, uh, but he was atthe derby.

(01:28):
So what we're going to do nowis you're going to hear now from
andy for a minute or so.
He's going to kind of he.
He gave us a great rundown inour whatsapp group of the
emotions of that experience andwe so we asked him to record it.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
So, anyway, here's that well, many, many things
obviously can be said about thatgame.
I'll try and do them in somesort of uh, consecutive time
order, as best I can rememberthem.
We got to the ground just aftersix and it was already packed
outside.
Um, we just got the tail end ofthe um, the fans welcome and

(02:02):
the Everton team coach to thestadium, and we knew then or I
knew then that it was going tobe a special evening.
There was just something elseabout the atmosphere, more so
than other derby games or othernight games there.
And as for the, you know, thegame started and the atmosphere

(02:24):
was just a bear pit from theword go.
It really was.
We've all been there forspecial games when it's been.
The atmosphere and the volumeof the crowd has just been
elevated to another level and itwas like that from the start.
It really was.
And then to go 1-0 up in thecircumstances in which we did, I

(02:45):
couldn't believe the simplicityof that goal.
It was clearly a trainingground routine that worked a
treat.
I'd looked away for a splitsecond, look back just to see
Branthwaite play the ballthrough and Beto was just clean
through and I couldn't believethe simplicity of it, and it
demonstrates that Beto is one ofthe players under Moyes who

(03:08):
looks like a new player.
He's now a reasonablyaccomplished finisher in those
circumstances.
That was obviously demonstratedagain in the Crystal Palace
game.
Yeah, that was obviously afantastic start, um their goal

(03:30):
to make it one all it wasdisappointing how we gave the
ball away in the lead up to that.
De corey had the great, had theright idea.
If he'd slipped it through tomickalenko, mickalenko would
have had the entire left half ofthe pitch to run into.
Unfortunately he didn't get theball quite right, gave the ball
away, and it was from thatphase of possession that
mcallister made it 1-0.
So that was disappointing.

(03:52):
But into the second half for thefirst half of the second half I
didn't think Liverpool turnedup.
They were almost still in thedressing room.
We easily could have gone 2-1ahead.
Decorey had two excellentchances that he really should
have done better with,especially the first one ahead
that he put past the post.
And again, how the ball camethrough to Salah when they made

(04:15):
it 2-1 was equally fortuitous,although obviously when I saw
him get the ball in thatposition, even even though we're
sat at the other end, you knowwhat the outcome is going to be.
You can't just let one of theworld's best players have those
sorts of opportunities.
And it was extremelyfrustrating to hear the

(04:38):
Liverpool fans chanting we wonthe league at Goodison Park.
And then obviously, obviously,injury time starts.
Five minutes have beensignalled and I said to Dad and
I always believe this there'salways a chance in injury time.
Now you don't know who, for itcould have fallen to Liverpool
and they could have made it 3-1.
But there's always a chance.

(05:00):
And obviously you know theball's bouncing round around the
liverpool box, it go, comes outto michelangelo.
He just hooks it into the boxbecause, if nothing else,
liverpool have got to deal withit, and they fail to deal with
it and obviously it's flickedonto tarkovsky and then that

(05:23):
moment where the ball's fallingto him, it just happened in slow
motion.
You know, you realize he's allon his own and can he get a good
connection, can he get it ontarget?
Can he get it past Alisson intothe net?
And clearly he does all threeof those things with with aplomb
.
And when the ball hit the backof the net, goodison Park was

(05:46):
absolute bedlam.
It was just the most gloriousmayhem that I've possibly ever
had in that stadium.
It was just phenomenal, justlimbs absolutely everywhere.
And then of course, you've gotthe VAR check and we didn't have
a scooby if it was offside oranything.

(06:07):
We only found out later thatLiverpool were obviously
claiming a foul as well.
I'll come on to that shortly.
But yeah, to be in the stadiumwhen that goal went in was a
special, special moment.
A couple of other thoughts.
I've spoken to some Liverpoolfans just in, you know, just
sort of day-to-day, you know,coming together at work and

(06:31):
stuff, and they've said abouthow they thought it was a foul
on Canarte before Tarkovsky'sgoal and my reply to that is
well, that's the sort of gamethat you've been playing all
night.
We sucked them in into a game ofattrition.
They clearly didn't want to bebullied, like they had been in

(06:51):
the corresponding fixture lastseason where we won 2-0.
So they, from the word go, theywere just playing the man all
the time.
How Lewis Diaz didn't getbooked every time.
He just ran into Branantwaitewhen Brantwaite was trying to
clear an aerial ball and wesucked them into playing the
sort of game we wanted to playinstead of them playing.

(07:14):
If they'd played their own gamethey probably would have won.
The outcome might have beendifferent, but they let
themselves be sucked into it.
Would have won.
The outcome might have beendifferent, but they let
themselves be sucked into it.
Um and yeah, obviously.
Then the stromash brawl fightwhatever you want to call it at
the end was just great fun.
I was just hugging dad when thefinal whistle went um, um,

(07:40):
actually, I've.
I'll come back to the varbecause I was talking about that
.
Yes, he got the VAR check afterTarkovsky's goal and we didn't
have a clue what was going on.
And then we heard a few cheerscoming from the Everton crowd
Obviously people whether theyhad other information that it
was given and then MichaelOliver gives the goal and we get

(08:01):
to celebrate twice, which wasmuch better than having it
chalked off, obviously.
So it was a special, specialmoment, and also shout out to
the Royal Blue podcast that theLiverpool Echo do.
They said this morning that thatgoal by Tarkovsky is the last
kick of a football in a derbymatch at Goodison by an Everton

(08:24):
player.
After the game resumed, anEverton player headed it, but
nobody touched it with theirfoot.
So Tarkovsky, leathering itinto the Gladder Street net is
the last ever kick of a footballby an Everton player in a derby
match at Goodison, which Ithink is a very fitting way to
end the fixture.
And it's also equally fitting,returning to the shenanigans at

(08:46):
the end, that it ended in a bigfight and four red cards,
because this is obviously thePremier League fixture with the
highest number of red cardssince 1992.
23, I do believe.
And it's also very rich inLiverpool to be complaining
about fouls on Canarte when youthink of all the decisions that

(09:10):
they've got away with over theyears.
Yeah, you could fill a podcastwith them all the players they
should have had sent off anddidn't including a player at
Anfield last season.
So, yeah, it was a special,special night.
Really pleased to have beenthere and um also looked at the
new ground before we went.

(09:30):
That looks absolutely fantasticand the I heard nothing but
good things from the test eventas well, so can't wait to uh
start seeing derby games in ournew stadium okay.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
So, um, we weren't at the three of us weren't unlike
andy, weren't at the derby, butuh, we all watched it.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
And obviously I mean I don't know how many times I've
watched that tarkovsky goal onyoutube since, but like when
ellen literally when we were atdinner the other night was
complaining to somebody abouthow many times she'd been forced
to watch that goal because Iwas just.
I had it on the tv and I watchedthe all angles thing they do on
youtube and I'd watched everyfan angle that I could find of

(10:11):
it and she was like she wasliterally complaining to the
people we were having dinnerwith, that she'd seen that goal
too many times, so I feel whichI which I feel like means that
I've watched it just aboutenough, because it's like
messaging in politics whenpeople start complaining, it
means they've finally understood, they've started to pay
attention.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
So yeah, I've watched it.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
The perfect amount in my view.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I was watching the All Angles thing on the TV at
home the other day and havingSam, my partner, see exactly the
same thing.
See me watch this.
It's a week on, right, we'restill watching this goal and she
just walked past her like, verylike solemnly, with a bit of
sadness just said you've got aproblem.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yes, it's called Everton Football Club.
We all share it.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
It's an illness actually.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
I've seen three different.
I'm sorry.
I've seen like three differentversions of the Titanic theme
song at the top.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
And plus one to Peter I don't know, adam, if you
heard this, but Peter Drury, whodoes NBC's commentary, the
co-host they have on NBC doingthe commentary.
The analysts are generallyterrible, with the exception of
Tim Howard, but Peter Drury is abrilliant commentator and his
commentary of that is justperfect.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, so if anyone hasn't, listened to that, look
it up on YouTube.
I watched it afterwards.
And when you listen to thecommentary of the goal as well,
because it was on what was itover here?
It was on TNT, I think it was.
It was on TNT here and you cantell that whoever the lead
commentator is, ali mccoy startstalking over it and you can

(11:51):
tell that they basically justquite told him to shut up, uh,
just to allow the emotion of the, the crowd and the noise and
the atmosphere just to come upbefore they carried on uh
talking, because if you watch itback, if you watch it back or
listen to it back, he's likemid-sentence.
He just then just stops.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
I can't imagine the greatest sort of limbs as it's
called I've ever witnessed at afootball ground was the
Arteta-Fiorentina goal, that is,which I was in the Gladys
Street.
I think we were all in theGladys Street for that one.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, we were, I was.
I was in the Gladys Street.
I think we were all in theGladys Street for that one.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, we were, I was certainly there.
Yeah, we were all in there,like that is.
That is to me the great likewas the greatest like limbs
moment of a goal I've ever seenin Goodison and obviously we've
just heard from Andrew I presumehe's going to, he has covered
in some way shape or that wereflying around when that goal
went in.
But that must have been justthe maddest moment that Goodison

(12:48):
has seen in years, because Imean on the TV, the noise, the
crowd, I mean my favourite wasthe bloke who just sort of
charged on the pitch and grabbedthe corner flag and was just
waving it above his head.
I mean the whole place wentabsolutely bananas.
I loved it.
And do you know what I lovedeven more while we're talking
about it, I loved how stronglyLiverpool heads fell off because

(13:10):
they absolutely lost it.
And yeah, you can call it smalltime, you can call it bitter,
whatever, it was a 2-2 draw,blah, blah, blah.
It's our cup final.
But that 10 minutes where wescored, the VAR checks confirmed
after thinking it wouldn't beand then they, absolutely
running to the crowd, absolutelylose.

(13:31):
They absolutely lose theirheads.
Slot gets sent off and dykesmoaning curtis jones, is you
know about to cry like that 10minutes is probably up there
with the greatest 10 minutes offootball-related my
football-related life.
It was absolutely fuckingglorious every second of it.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I'm a great fan of shitting on the Guardians
Football Weekly podcast,particularly Barry Glendening,
but I will give him props thisweek because he said, I think,
what we were all thinking, whichwas when all the shenanigans at
the end which decory far, likehe did nothing, I, when I I
heard he'd celebrated, I thoughthe'd gone and like pulled his

(14:13):
shirt over his head or mooned atthem or something, but, like
you know, he did fingers on lips, which was entirely appropriate
in my view.
Anyway, glendening was everyonesaying oh, we know, we don't
want to see that.
And glenn denning on theguardian was like no, it's
absolutely what we want to see.
It's the best, it's the mostentertaining end to a game any
of us have seen in years.
It's like we score.
I mean, I think you know wewere sharing a tiktok where

(14:36):
someone said this might be oneof the greatest moments in the
history of the sport, becausethe pressure on liverpool, the
emotion of the occasion, wherewe are, where they are, the
context of the game on bothsides, it being just almost the
last kick of the game, the goalitself being a great goal.
I mean, what a finish.
And there's a moment we werewatching.

(14:58):
I was in the terminal in NewYork which went absolutely
fucking mental, like, justabsolutely fucking mental, like
it's just absolutely fuckingmental.
I found myself.
There's a stranger's armpit Iended up in.
I've never met the guy before,couldn't, couldn't recognize him
in a lineup.
Now it, it was absolutelymental.
And there's a moment and Ithink you could, I heard some

(15:19):
folks who were in the Gladysstreet talk about this as well
where the balls arch intoTarkovsky and the goal is right
in front of him and it was justenough time for it to fall and
we were out of it.
It had gone.
You know, when they scored, itwent.
You feel like even from 3,000miles away, watching it on TV,

(15:43):
you could tell it was like suchsadness that this was going to
be the outcome and we, they weregoing to have won 41 times at
goodison to our sorry 42 to our41.
And there's just enough time,when that ball's dropping, for
you to have a conscious thoughtof holy shit, we're about to
score and I knew, and I knew hewas gonna, it was gonna go in

(16:05):
because you know, it's justeverton, it's it's like we don't
get relegated.
This is what happens.
You know, jagielka bangs one infrom 30 yards a few seasons ago
.
I.
This is what happens to us andit was.
It was the.
It's one of the most incrediblemoments and most significant

(16:25):
moments that that game has everseen.
And as I'm saying this now, I'mwatching the back end of
Liverpool Villa and by the timethis is out, you'll know what
the score is.
But they're drawing 2-2 withfour minutes to go right now,
and Ben your point around thepressure and them not being able
to stand the pressure, I thinkis really coming home to roost,
because if their whole thing, ifthe Coppites' whole thing, is,

(16:49):
oh, we care, everton care toomuch, oh, really, we're the ones
who care too much.
That's what?
Look, let's look at whathappened and say you care less
than us?
Really, I don't fucking thinkso.
I think it's the exact opposite.
I think we know exactly who weare and they are not anything
like what they think they are.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, well, they changed their game plan
completely when um to play.
I mean there were 29 fouls inthe game um, 20 of them were
caught were were by liverpool.
They couldn't.
They came there and weren'table to play football.
The calm, the calmest managerin the league ends up getting
sent off and completely losinghis head on the touchline and
going back.

(17:31):
I was saying this to peoplebefore.
It was the last game under theGoodison lights, the last derby,
and sort of going back to yourpoint about it being an Everton
thing, I think what makes itmore incredible is it's actually
not an Everton thing for thatto happen.
An Everton thing traditionallywould be your centre-half puts

(17:54):
it into row B of the upperGladys and twats dad in the head
.
That would be like the mostEverton thing.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, no, the most Everton thing is the VAR check.
Yeah, that's the most Everton,no, no, the most evident, the
most evident thing is the varcheck.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, that's the most evidence.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's true we're talking about we score we score
the goal, everyone goes mentaland then it gets ruled off
because decoray's toenail isoffside.
That's the most evidence andthat's where I thought we were,
and that's what part of makes itso incredible I saw that we
thought we.
We thought that's what wasgoing to happen the moment I saw
the freeze frame frame.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Adam, you made a good point on chat.
Actually, even then theyfreezed it at the wrong point,
but I thought he's onside, likeit didn't even and I know you
weren't quite looking at theside angle, you can never quite
tell, I just thought I can.
Just it really looks reallyreally like he's onside.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
And the idea that Beto pushed that guy and that
should have been found.
He doesn't push him at all.
No, it's just occupying space.
Yeah, we're talking about ateam as well, one like you're
right, you know, for it was 41,40, 41, 41 for each team for the
for the goodison win lastseason, when we beat them 2-0,
we sung um, you know, you lostthe league at goodison park this
season.
They were singing, quite youknow, understandably, you lost
the league at goodison park thisseason.
They were singing, quite youknow, understandably.
We won the league at goodisonpark.
Final game, final game, finalderby at goodison, final game

(19:11):
under the lights.
You sent a half um, it puts itin the top corner.
Um, and we're talking about ateam that were league champions
in 1914 and 1939.
We are the most unlucky team inthe world.
So for that to happen, it'sjust like it's actually the
antithesis of everton.

(19:32):
Um and uh.
Then obviously, to go to a varcheck as well.
Um, yeah, it was absolutelyincredible, like I.
I can't remember getting so.
I can't remember reacting soemotionally to any goal, and
probably the Arteta one comesinto mind, I think as well.
Another one that comes to mindis Andy Johnson's first in the

(19:55):
3-0 win, that one as well, whichI was at that game and I was at
the Lee Carsley 1-0 as well.
They're the two games I canreally think of in terms of the
amount of emotion and it wasjust.
Yeah, it was just, it was just,it was just glorious and you

(20:17):
know, for it to happen, tohappen this season with, given
how much, how much shit we'vehad to endure under Dyche, was
just, it was incredible.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
We should also, before we move off the Liverpool
game, because I know we've gotlots of other stuff to get onto
we should talk about this.
We should talk about this.
We can talk about this from theCrystal Palace game as well.
Our first goal is a lovelyfinish by Beto and it's a great
ball through by Brantway and Iknow the Tarkovsky thing
obviously quite rightlyovershadows and that was the
thing that was remembered in thegame.
But up until that point weplayed really well and we

(20:48):
deservedly were in the game.
We probably absolutely deserveda point um before you know,
tarkovsky scored and and and weum, we definitely uh, earned
that with that goal.
But the Beto goal and I thinkBeto generally, I think you're
really seeing the difference itmakes when a you um give him the

(21:10):
run in the team and the minutesand the confidence, but also if
you put him in positions wherehe's going to score, like, and I
think it is.
There's been a lot ofdiscussion about, like, how
we're playing in a way thatsuits beto more, and I don't
think that's right.
Actually, I think it's actuallymuch more to do with we're just
playing football in a way thatputs our striker closer to goal

(21:30):
and therefore we're scoring moregoals, like I don't think it's
like, oh, we've changed the waytactically because it's better
versus dcl.
I think we're going hey guys,do you want to actually just
play football and score somegoals?
And he's, he's proving himselfto be what we kind of knew he
was, which is a very goodfinisher.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Um, in those, um, in those situations yeah, he's real
and I agree with all of that,but he's a real handful as well,
like he's you.
He's a better footballer thanpeople give him credit for.
I thought some of his hold-upplay against Palace was really
good, some of his distributionwas really good.
But I think he's right, he's avery calm finisher.
It's interesting because maybehe is an instinctive finisher as

(22:08):
well, but actually the goals hescores are ones where he has a
second to think, which is DCL'swhole problem, and when Beto has
a second to think, which isdcl's whole problem, and when
beto has a second to think, thechance of a goal is is xg and
the situation goes up, not down,which is actually very good for
him.
And, and I think he's just areal handful I think he just
gives teams like you're notgoing to leave any defender

(22:28):
one-on-one with him, you know,because he might just plow
through you, you know, justthrough sort of sheer kind of
determination.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, the commentator for the Palace game was talking
about how the two teams had,you know, two traditional
strikers.
You know big number nines,because obviously Palace play
with Mateta who is, you know,quite a similar player to Beto
in terms of the way he you knowhe's um, his hold up plays good.
You know, he's got obviouslygot a um, he's a good finisher,

(23:01):
um, and you wonder, like, is ourdefenders less capable of
dealing with those sort ofplayers?
Because they um, becausethey're now used to playing for
playing with teams where youknow they've got inside forwards
and you've got players, likeyou know, teams like arsenal and
city who, where obviously cityhave harlem now, but like
arsenal, um, arsenal obviouslydon't have a central striker,

(23:23):
liverpool don't really have acentral striker.
You know they have to deal withthree forwards rather than just
one.
And that sort of idea of beingbossed around by a guy who's six
foot four and a bit, you knowvery limmy, go-go gadget, leggy,
like beto, is um, that theycan't really deal with that.

(23:44):
And you're right you say thathe's technically better than
he's given credit for.
As you said, I think he justlooks like when he doesn't, when
stuff doesn't come off for him,it just looks really shit,
which makes people think he isand he's not, and he's and he's
a unit, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean, we have a bias towards like why he's a big
lumpy guy.
You say, well, there's a momentagainst palace where he he's
got the ball, you know, to hisfeet, back to goal.
Sort of on the halfway linehe's spun away from a defender
and very nearly releasedHarrison down the left.
The pass just got interceptedand it was, like you know, there

(24:19):
was real quality there.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
What do you want your strikers to do?
You want them to put the ballin the back of the net.
He's got four goals in his.
Is it four in his last three?
Four in his last six?
You know, his record, sinceMoyes has come in DCL has been
injured has been absolutelybrilliant and it's not just the
nature of the fact he's scoringgoals.
We're putting him in positionswhere he's going to score goals.

(24:43):
Obviously he had a good chanceagainst Palace, that sort of
instinctive finish that hemissed.
But when he's got that timeit's like you can see that he
waits until the very last second.
He knew exactly what he wasdoing in that finish against
Palace where he waited for thegoalkeeper to go down and he
knows the defender's comingacross.
If you look it back, he takes alook at where the goalkeeper is

(25:04):
and he knows the defender'sthere and then he just waits for
them both to go down and thenjust slots it in the gap between
the two.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, that Palace goal was a lovely finish.
The other thing about himlooking quote-unquote lumbering
and I should credit the guysover at the Blue Frontier, which
is a US toffee podcast, andshout-out to the DC Toffees, who
I finally got around to sharingthe link to this podcast to,
only for one of them to revealthat he'd been listening to it
for a while and just never knewthat it was me.

(25:34):
So, hi, Matt, thank you forlistening.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
In other news, people listen to this podcast, I know.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I was astonished as well but there we go.
But the guys over at the BlueFrontier were talking about this
and the reason why I think Betohas this reputation for looking
a bit like Bambi.
He's always battling people,he's always fighting for the
ball, he's always physical.
So, yes, he can look ungainly,but that's because he's never

(26:02):
shirking from the battle of it,he's not letting himself be
beaten without a fight.
And that means that when heloses the ball, sometimes it
looks like he's lost it becausehe's ungainly, whereas actually
he's lost it because he'sungainly, whereas actually he's
lost it because he's fightingharder for it.
So he's sort of a victim of hisown physicality that he looks
ineffective because he's tryingreally hard, and I thought that
was a really.
It was a really smart pointabout, like, how it can

(26:26):
sometimes be the exact oppositeof what it appears.
It's not that he's ungainly ina bad footballer, it's like he's
fighting really hard for theball and that makes it look like
that.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
And he sort of seems to thrive on that, and I think
there's a really good JonathanWilson column in the Guardian a
couple of days ago about.
Wilson has written lots ofbooks on tactics and very
thoughtful about this stuff andwas reflecting on the sort of
evolution that's happening inthe game, which is the sort of
pure that's happening in thegame, which is, you know, the

(26:56):
sort of pure play out from theback thing is like being
challenged because teams arebetter at pressing and actually,
you know, you speculate, theteams that will do well in the
future are the ones who can doboth, and part of doing both is
actually it's amazing to havesomeone and we know Moyes loves
this who you can knock a balldown the channel to and they are

(27:18):
going to be athletic, they'regoing to get there and they're
probably going to either maybewin the ball challenge or, half
the time, get a throw in, youknow, two-thirds of the way down
the pitch.
That is a really great way toan option to have in terms of
how you play football, and Ithink Beto gives us that like so
so well.
He seems like a great bloke aswell.

(27:39):
I don't know the guy, but likehe just seems like a, really
like someone you just want tosucceed, like he cares, he's
really into it.
You see his reaction the winneragainst Palace.
He's like you know, having likea.
He's like gone to rapturebasically around the penalty
spot.
He's like gone to rapturebasically around the penalty
spot and I think, and he's likeI, just you, you're someone who
you, you know people, playerscome and go and you know he's

(28:00):
they're not you can't expectthem to be fans, but he's
someone who just obviously wantsto, so wants to do well for
himself and his team and that's,that's that.
That means an awful lot to meand it's got the kind of player
you want in the team he is a fan.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
I'm not sure if you, if you, knew this, but, like
when we signed him, there was avideo that circulated of him
like training back in themid-2000s in an everton kit,
because he he loved lukaku andso he loved that.
He watched he.
So, yeah, he talks about he.
He was like the sort of thefirst dav not quite the first
David Moyes team, but theMartinez team when it was, you

(28:35):
know, baines and Coleman andJagielka and Lukaku and Barkley
and that team.
He, like, he watched that team,he was a fan of that team.
So when you say you can'texpect them to be fans, he
actually is a fan.
He is someone who has watchedEverton and genuinely seems to
love it.
Speaking of other players, andthen we're going to get on to

(28:55):
transfers, I was reallyimpressed with Alcaraz and that
could.
I really think that could turninto one of those signings where
you go how have we pulled thatoff?
Like, how have we done thatCause?
Like, scored a great goal, gotan assist.
Seems like the right sort of,you know, technical player that
we want carries the ball well,has a little bit of that um, uh,
that fire in him because youknow he's argentinian, so you

(29:18):
know, has that sort of notafraid to get in a scrap, like
you know the derby when it's hisfirst first game at goodison.
He was right in there at theend with.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
He's only met them two days ago.
He's like he was right.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
He was right in there with with all the players like,
so I thought I think he couldbe a really smart bit of
business for us.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, just going back onto Beto, you see he was
released by Benfica as a kid andthen was playing part-time and
working at KFC in his late teensand I think he was about 20.
And then he got picked up by asecond division portuguese team,

(29:58):
did relatively okay there, thenmoved to uh it you know, got a
big move to udanese um and thenobviously I spent a season, I
think season or two there.
Then we picked him up.
So he's obviously he's got that.
I think when you have to fightthat hard, you have that.
I think when you have to fightthat hard, you have that real
fire about you and appreciationof where you are.

(30:20):
I think that's why you know,like you look at Jamie Vardy
with his career trajectory, youknow that makes him sort of the
player that he is, because heplays almost like he still is
playing in the 7th or 8th tierwhere he started his career.

(30:40):
That makes him the player thathe is.
You'll never lose that.
What some people might say istechnical limitations and stuff
He'll never lose, being anabsolute nonsense for defenders,
and there's not yeah and moderndefenders don't.
They're not, they don't, theydon't really train, they're not

(31:00):
really meant to work like thatanymore.
You know, you don't have, youdon't have your.
You know, terry butcher, johnterry sort of defenders anymore
that can, can hold their ownagainst big, big defenders?
There's only a handful of thosewho really can, because the
emphasis is now on technicalability of your defenders,
because, as you said earlier,austin, the modern football is

(31:21):
to play out from the back, soyour central defenders need to
be a lot more technically gifted.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, they have the ball actually more than anyone
else.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Exactly and they play through the lines a lot more
than they used to, you know,which is why you can get you
know in Brian Shawcross, youknow, springs to mind.
You know could barely kick aball straight but he was a
bloody good defender for Stokefor so many years, so that's
always going to be for him andhe's got the most important

(31:51):
attribute nailed, which isfinishing and calmness and
composure because that's theopposite of dcl is that when he
has a check, when he has tothink about a chance, he misses,
which is why his best seasonwere those pretty much all
one-touch finishes in theancelotti season well and that's
in the ground as well yeah, andthat's the thing about the
management as well.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
is that like that's why ancelotti is one of the best
managers in the world, becausehe identified with Calvert-Lewin
?
It's like, okay, you're reallygood at this and you're not very
good at this other thing, soI'm just going to get you to do
this.
It's like I'm just going to getyou to.
You're a great instinctivefinisher, so I want you to just
be in positions where you'rethat's it, that's your job.
And that's like sometimesmanagement is really simple.

(32:33):
It's it's like where do you,where do you win?
What are you good at?
Ok, great, how do we set you upto do that more?
There's an obsession in likethat one is go, sort of all
management and stuff.
There's an obsession in likecorporations and in teams and
stuff is to go OK, what's yourweakness and how do we build on
it?
And like that has value, right,but.

(32:57):
But actually there's much morevalue by emphasizing strength
and building a team where youassemble people with
complementary strengths.
Rather than going, oh well, weneed to level everyone out.
We need to make the people whoaren't very good at this, we
need to build them up.
It's like no, dominic Harlow isreally really good at.
He's really good at lots ofthings professional footballer
but he's really really good atinstinctive one-touch finishes.
So let's not try and make himrun the lines or have

(33:18):
one-on-ones or whatever.
Let's just tell him to stand atthe penalty spot and finish
one-on-one finish instinctively,because that's what he's really
good at and that's like smart,smart management but yeah,
that's the total opposite ofmovies.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
You can see that Moyes has obviously seen the
players and go and look, youknow he probably don't have the
tech, he doesn't really have thetechnical players available for
injury uh that he wants.
So you know, we change ourtactics and you know what's the
first thing that happens at a uhwhen we obviously we scored
directly from it against, uh, um, against, was it against Spurs?

(33:50):
When Decore scored after 11seconds, the ball goes straight
to Pickford from the kickoff andhe goes long because we're
trying to win possession high up.
We, you know, win possession,like gain possession high up the
pitch and then we can startplaying a bit of football.
We're not playing for setpieces, you know.
Obviously you can see our thegoals from open play.
You know we've scored moregoals from open play since Moyes

(34:11):
took over than Dyche.
We got under Dyche all season.
So it shows that we'reobviously creating more chances.
But Moyes has recognised thatthe way to get us to create more
chances.
He's changed the way that weplay by going longer and being
more physical and stuff.
And it's not going to be apermanent thing because he

(34:32):
doesn't want to play that way,but he's recognised that that's
the way that we need to playwith the players that we have
available.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
It's interesting you say that because I think in a
sense I think I agree with that,but also you're both a bit
right and wrong.
I think Moyes is the ultimatepragmatist.
For sure we know that hedoesn't really have a way of
playing.
That's why Ferguson likes him,because Ferguson didn't have a
way of playing either.
He wanted to win games and hewas very much.
How do I get these players,which I think is absolutely
right?
I think we're seeing with RubenAmarin at man United will be

(35:01):
the death of the project manager, who has a way of playing and
tries to force the universe tobend to it.
But there were some stats I wasseeing I'll put them in the
show notes on Blue Sky wherethere was an analysis of how
direct teams are in terms of thevelocity of basically the speed

(35:22):
at which they move up pitch,and Everton actually are about
25% slower but less direct underMoyes than we were under Dyche.
So he's actually he's preparedto go long, but overall we're
keeping the ball much more andactually making slower progress
but obviously much moreeffective progress up the pitch
than we were under Dosh, whichwas a little bit, as we know,
neanderthal football.

(35:44):
All right, we've got a couple ofminutes.
We've got about 20 minutes.
We're going to talk about acouple of other things.
Transfers first.
Ben, you requested this.
You asked is Kevin Thelwelldoing a good job segment.
So welcome to a new segment onthe Blues Brothers Everton
podcast.
It's called is Kevin Thelwelldoing a good job, ben, is Kevin
Thelwell doing a good job?

Speaker 2 (36:03):
I won't spoil my answer.
So let me talk to you about the.
Let me give you the contextfirst, because there's been a
lot of conversation aboutThelwell because his contract is
up at the end of the season andthere's been a lot of you read
a lot of like criticism of himonline about not doing a good
job and, like you know, he'srubbish and blah blah.
And you know I see in WhatsAppgroups like can't wait till he's
got rid and I just sort ofthought it would be an
interesting discussion to have,semi-objectively, about what

(36:29):
he's been able to do and theresources he's had, so able to
do and the resources he's had.
So I'm just going to veryquickly to sort of set the stage
for this.
I'm going to read you first ofall, all of the players in in
the time since uh fell well,took over, and then all the
players out, and then I'm gonnagive you the net spent, right,
I'm not going to go throughevery transfer like value wise,
but um, so since he took over infebruary 2022, we have signed

(36:54):
james tarkovsky, dwight McNeil,amadou Inanna, neil Maupay,
james Garner, adrissa Gay, eldonJakubowicz, who I think is a
reserve goalkeeper, ashley Young, yusuf Chimiti, beto Arno
Danjouma on loan, jack Harrisonon loan, ilman Ndjai, tim
Iribunam and I think this listappears to be missing Mangala

(37:17):
and Jesper Lindström, but Ithink they are the other two and
the players we've got rid of inthat time, not including
players that we've just released, but we've sold Richarlison,
alan Broadhead, gordon Nkunku,moyes-keane, ella Sims, samuel
Smith, iwobi, damari Gray, neilMopay.

(37:39):
Now that is like the two sidesof the coin.
Our net spend in that time isaround.
It's difficult to measure.
The website I'm looking at,which is Transfer Market, takes
it somewhere in the region ofabout 75 million million profit.
So we have and over the lastfive years I looked this up
earlier, which is obviouslypre-Belwell as well but over the

(38:01):
last five years we are, I think, the only Premier League team
to have a net profit in thetransfer market in that time.
So I think we could go playerby player.
But I think if you go back andread that list of players, I
think the only one that youreally look at and go, oh, you

(38:24):
missed there was Neil Mopay andthe deal that we've got for him
to go out on loan.
We're going to make a bookvalue profit on Mopay anyway
because of the obligation that'sin the deal.
So the answer to the questionhas Kevin Thirlwall done a good
job?
I think he's actually.
Yes, he's done a really goodjob.
With the resources he's had andthe constraints that we've been

(38:47):
under financially, I think hehas managed to sign players that
have made a real practicaldifference to our team.
I think if you look at some ofthe value he's got Dwight McNeil
for 15 million, james Garnerfor nine, you know Beto's now
coming good, illiman and Jai forsomewhere around 15, 16.

(39:09):
I think there's plenty there tojustify that actually we should
give him a new contract and hehas earned a new contract
because I think if you look atthe constraints he was working
under and what he's managed todeliver, I think he's been a
huge, huge success.
But that is my position comingout from this.
I'd be really interested, forthe purposes of a discussion,

(39:31):
what you guys think.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Adam thoughts.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, I broadly agree .
I think he's been verysuccessful.
I completely agree.
Morpé was the only real playerI would say there, who the
significant investment, whodidn't work out.
That was a disastrous signingand there's always going to be,
because the profile of playerthat he was, you know being so

(39:55):
different to um, to calvertlewin, as we talked at the time
when we bought him, you know weneeded, we really needed a, a
striker, but the idea, the, theplayer needs to be a similar
profile to calvert lewin becauseyou've got a set way of playing
and you want to make sure thatyour players fit around.
That if that's what you'regoing to do and then and then we

(40:16):
obviously more than made up forit with beto, because cavit
lewis is obviously injured thenbeto can um come in and and and
and be, and be a very similarsort of player and you know,
reaping the rewards for that.
And even like significantinvestments you know like you
talked about, you know mc, youtalked about, you know McNeil,
for you know, really goodtechnical player for a good

(40:37):
amount of money, james Garner,steal at 9 million.
But even like the significantinvestments were bought with
with the idea that they've got alot of value that we can.
We can sell for a significantprofit.
You know, look at Inanna for 33million and then then sold him
for you know, 50 to villa acouple of years later.
Um, so it's been smart and Ithink the the biggest, the big,

(41:03):
the the best thing about him, Ithink, has been probably more
likely, more likely, the factthat I think um mashiri
recognized the way that hetreated Marcel Brandt was
completely counterproductive.
So I think Kevin Thelwell hasbeen allowed to get on with his
job a lot better and we'reseeing the rewards of that.

(41:24):
So I'd be absolutely lookingfor him to renew his contract.
I think the question will be adirector of football has to work
in tandem with a, a manager.
Um moise is very is well knownfor wanting to have a lot of
dealings in terms of scouting ofplayers.

(41:46):
You know, famously he he never,ever turned, he never uh bought
a player that he's notpersonally seen uh in the flesh.
You know, for example, he wentover to belgium at least um at
least half a dozen times to goand see um fellaini um, so that
that will probably be the onlysticking point.

(42:06):
It's like how well can moiseand and kevin thalwell work,
because I think moise will.
Because of the solidity that hewill bring and he's got a
two-and-a-half-year contract.
I think that will be adeterminer in whether he gets a
new contract and I would hopethat they can and I don't see

(42:28):
any reason why they can't.
I think it's fair to say thatMoyes' influence will be less
than what it was at Evertonbecause he has a much more
central role.
I think it's fair to say thatMoyes' influence will be less
than what it was at Evertonbecause he has a much more
central role and I thinkdirectors of football have taken
over a lot more with overallfootball and strategy than when
Moyes was in charge at Everton.
But I do still think that thatwill be a consideration.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
The other one that for some reason is missed off
this list was Jake O'Brien, whoI don't think I mentioned, who
was turning into looking like avery, very, very good player,
even playing out of position.
So I just wanted to flag that.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Even that's smart.
We bought Jake O with the, withthe understanding that jared
branthwaite is not going to bethere, uh, for very much longer.
So he was bought as a, as adirect replacement.
They obviously become available, and we got to equate him for,
like what?

Speaker 2 (43:21):
15 million quid you know, yeah, 17 is the on, but
yes, it's probably, it'ssomewhere in that, in that range
.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, yeah, it would be interesting.
You'd be surprised, wouldn'tyou, if two things would
surprise me.
One, if Everton don't want tohave a director of football or
someone in that role.
That would be, I think,unlikely.
And two, if they sort of lookedat what?
Because you know, you've got toassume we don't know the free
kings, you've got to assumethey're at least rational people
, probably smart, rationalpeople.
Looked at what you've justarticulated, ben, and didn't go.

(43:51):
This guy's done a good job.
Now, maybe there might be somequestion about, okay, well, can
he go to the next level?
Maybe, but you know, and whoelse do you get?
If you can get some rock star,fine, but you know, there's very
, very strong arguments.
I base this on nothing otherthan kind of, you know, doing a
little bit of a one plus onemight equal two.

(44:13):
I suspect a lot ofdecision-making around Everton
will be quite different thisweek, because I think this is
the first week where they cansort of really go.
Okay, we're going to be aPremier League team next year.
You know, the chance of usgetting relegated now, I think,
is like according to Opta, islike 0.5%, which is the same as
man United's right.
So the, I think the so that Ithink will be a big deal for

(44:35):
Felwell, because does he want tobe a director of football for a
championship team?
Probably not.
And for Everton, about whatmoney can they spend?
What does the budget like?
What does PSR look like?
I think there's probably a lothas been on hold because of that
uncertainty yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I think that's right and I think having the clarity
early on is is super useful.
So you're not like down to yourfingernails.
I still maintain and I think Isaid this at the time in our
whatsapp group I still maintainthat we will look back and go
after we beat leicester.
We didn't need to win anotherpoint, because I think that I
think the bottom three teams inthis league are not going to get

(45:10):
to 27 points.
I think we will have threeteams go down on less than 27.
So I think people have said I'velistened to all the podcasts
and people have said, prior tothe Liverpool game, we're like
oh, we need two more wins, weneed to beat.
And I was like I think we'resafe.
I think as soon as we beatLeicester, we were safe Because

(45:33):
it just For two reasons One, asI say, I don't think the other
teams will actually get to 20,whatever that took us to 26, I
think.
And also, you accidentally pickup three or four more points in
15 games, right.
You could be Southampton andyou'd pick up three or four more
points in 15 games, right?
So I just thought by that pointit's immaterial.

(45:54):
So I suspect they've beenplanning on the basis of being a
Premier League club for alittle bit longer than that, but
I agree it does unlock theability to make different
decisions with a view to what weare next season in our brand
new, shiny new ground looks what?

Speaker 1 (46:13):
a fucking incredible it's almost like we planned this
one a little bit and had anagenda, which is not something
not always the case.
Dear listener, let me promiseyou, um, uh, yeah, the stage.
We'll record this on wednesday19th.
Uh, the first test event was, Ithink, last night.
I time zones confusing mondaynight, monday night.

(46:33):
Everton's lost start, as youmean to go on Under-18s lost to
Wigan.
The stadium looks fuckingbrilliant.
There was a really good pedfrom Toffee TV did a good sort
of thing from it, and then himand Baz had a good conversation
which you should look up onYouTube.
But I just say I'm so, I am sofucking excited to be in that

(46:54):
thing.
I think it's going to beabsolutely uh, it's going to be
really fucking brilliant and I'mvery happy that we get to.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
I get to go there soon it's quite significantly
down the list of importantthings in the stadium.
You know, like increasedrevenue, jobs it's going to
bring to the area, but have youseen the fucking food?
It looks amazing, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Well, apparently that was a test kitchen, so I don't
know whether the food will bethe same, but you would hope
that that is setting thestandard of what you would
expect.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
You've got this sausage roll that's got like
crackling baked into it.
Sign me up.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Salt and pepper chicken.
It looks slime.
Yeah, yeah, it's a chicken.
It looks, looks incredible it'syou know, we don't, no one has
to worry about staring at a postanymore.
It's, it's ridiculous.
The the only downside and, as Isay, all the pictures looked
incredible, all the feedbacklooked incredible.
The only thing that I saw peoplego this could be a problem is
apparently the transport um is anightmare because and that's

(47:54):
partly because you know, this iswhy you do test events, right,
you're checking, like how itworks practically, but
apparently sandhills, even with10 000 people, was an absolute
horror show, like trying to getin and out and they didn't put
on.
And now whether they weren'tdoing this because it was a test
event, they didn't have like asmany buses as you would expect

(48:14):
going from the city center, soapparently it was just it was
actually not that great in termsof the traveling experience
because basically you have onetrain station, which is
sandhills, which is not is likea one track not built for that
volume of people at all, andthen you have your half an hour
basis, half an hour's walk or ashort bus ride from from lime
street and you know.

(48:36):
So your options are kind oflimited, depending on your
mobility as well.
So I think that's the onlydowner quote.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Unquote on the whole thing is I think they've got
some transport stuff to work outum, especially with the train
and the city council have putparking restrictions in place
that basically ban all parkingaround the stadium every day of
the year.
So, yeah, absolutely likeinsane.
So all the businesses around itare like going absolutely nuts.
Understandable, because itcould be like a, a tuesday in

(49:05):
july where there's no footballfor months either side, but you
can't park outside.
You know the whatever store youwant to go to?
Um, yeah, I imagine they'll.
They'll um, thinking about what?
The geography of that area?
I think the buses are going tobe the answer and end up being
the answer to that question,because that's the thing you can
realistically do the train,that that there's mersey road.

(49:26):
The train, the line capacityisn't right, the stations are
pokey, it's not going to work.
But if they have a shitload ofbuses from and also from the
idea I bet they'll do it for abit from the north as well for
people to like park outside yeah, like you could see how you
could do a park and ride.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I mean, you could do a park and ride at like, off
what on all avenue, right offthe m6, at goodison, right off
the m62, sorry, um, likebasically where the ground at
Goodison is now.
You could park and ride upthere and bring people in from
that sort of direction as well.
They'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
It looks great.
The nice thing about watchingthe video it's funny.
If you go back and watch thevideos the turnstiles seem a bit
narrow.
I'm not sure some of our fansare going to be okay Because the
way they've got it set up thatthey're those turnstiles which
you know, I understand why theydo this.
Well, maybe I don't, actually,because I don't it.
The turnstiles are those fullbody, you know floor to ceiling

(50:20):
turnstiles.
They want people jump them orwhatever.
Fine, but it looks actuallylike quite an old school
turnstile.
It's got the electronic.
You know, tap your phone, uhthing on the electronic.
You know.
Tap your phone thing on thescreen, like you know we use if
you go on the London Undergroundor get on a bus or whatever.
All great.
But the way those screens areset they actually take up some

(50:41):
of the space that you would walkthrough.
They're sort of offset slightlyand you could see people in
this video.
Sort of people are sort offairly average size, turning
side on to sort of scooch past.
And you know, I think Peopleare sort of fairly average size,
turning side on to sort ofscooch past, and yet I don't.
I think there's going to besome people who have a
logistical problem getting intothis ground.
I don't want to cast aspersionson the mass of the average

(51:01):
Evertonian, but I don't know ifthey were a particularly skinny
bunch of people.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
And also, if the food's as good as Adam says,
we're not going to get anyskinnier.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, you'd be fat on the way out.
I looked at it and thought whyhave they?
Because you build this thingfrom scratch.
Why have you got a turnstilethat's the same turn, like, yes,
you scan a phone to get in,which is different, but the
turnstile itself is exactly thesame turnstile you would have
had 50 years ago.
Is that the best way now, whenyou've got like the stuff you
have on trains, where you knowthey sort of have sliding
perspex doors?
I don't know, anyway, we'll see.

(51:35):
Uh, but the ground looks fuckingspectacular and those of you
haven't been to it I haven'tbeen close to it, I've been to
the road outside.
You can get closer than thatnow.
Um, it is fucking enormous.
I mean, that is the thing Iwould say if you, if you haven't
been close.
It is we think about.
It's a 52 000 seat stadiumcompared to a 39 000 seat
stadium.
That profoundly underestimatesthe size of this thing it is.

(51:59):
It's like it's landed fromspace.
Um, onto that and uh, it just Ithink it's going to be
absolutely iconic for us, uh,and will drive the coppites
absolutely mad.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
It's funny you say about landing from space,
because I have a mate who andthis is actually something he
said about NFL stadiums, whichis a pretty almost entirely true
is that brand new NFL stadium,and I think you can apply this
to Bramley more, doc.
Brand new NFL stadiums areessentially spaceships that have

(52:32):
landed in shitholes because theland's cheap and it's easy to
acquire.
So you go to like any brand newstadium in the US.
It is almost without fail, thisincredible, technological,
beautifully architecturedbuilding in kind of a shithole.
And if you think about whatBramley Moor Dock was before,
that we've essentially taken aspaceship and landed it in a bit

(52:53):
of a shithole.
And if you think about whatBramley Moor Dock was before
that, we've essentially taken aspaceship and landed it in a bit
of a shithole.
That will now get betterbecause we've put a spaceship
there.
But it's funny you describe itas looking like a spaceship.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
I can't wait for the World Cup final in a couple of
years, which is the MetLifeStadium in.
I'm putting this in air quotesfor the listeners in New York
Anyone who knows where the wherethe metlife stadium is in in
new york knows it's in themiddle of a marsh 40 miles
outside new york, in the middleof absolutely fucking nowhere I
mean, it's not even in new yorkstate.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Is the important thing?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
it's in new jersey, yeah in the middle of a swamp.
Basically it's a beautifulstadium, um, I made to my, made
me laugh because we were textingabout the sort of transport
stuff and he was like you know,uh, in our group and he was
saying you know, what theyshould do actually is you could
run a really nice river, theferry could do a a little hop up
.
And then someone pointed out wejust removed the dock, so you

(53:47):
know we'd have to, you'd have tobuild one for it.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Um, all right, I'm looking at the turnstiles now on
a little video that I justfound and you are right, they
are like, yeah, they're not it'sit's spacious no, they're not
spacious and they're very like.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Do do you need, in 2025, the full length for to see
in turnstile to stop peoplejumping over them or getting in?
Like?
It seems a bit retro to me thatmaybe there's some law that
says that's what you have tohave at a football ground, but
it's, it's weird.
I just saw that.
I thought why have we done thatlike that?
You know, when you could,you're building this thing from

(54:25):
scratch.
Is that the best answer?
You know, when you walk intolike concerts and concerts and
stuff, now and every like bigconcert venue all over the world
has gotten rid of turnstilesentirely and actually just have
a bunch of people who scan yourtickets and have found that
that's actually way faster.
It's just have a load of peoplethere for an hour just to scan
your tickets.
But anyway, we'll see.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I want to see the guy in Remember that cop writer who
made that video where he justlike they've put, uh, where's he
was in.
He was at the Bramley, moredark, on the site of the new
ground and he just said where'sthe, where's the stadium?
Oh, they've put, they've put acone down.
I really hope that thatsomeone's kept that cone and
it's going to like bring it out.
Instead of bringing out thematch ball, they bring out the

(55:09):
post on the first day.
Put it in the fucking centrecircle.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I love that.
We've got to wrap up in asecond.
I want to do predictions for myUnited, but do we know who's
going to the last Goodison gameyet?
Yeah, it's me Great.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Lucky you who is our last game.
I mean that is well set up fora last day of the season.
Everton lose to Southampton.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
They'll still be on nine points and they'll have to
like they're on course forgetting the worst ever total and
it's like well, here comesEverton.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, have it All.
Right, let's do.
We'll play man United in acouple of days, which we haven't
talked about at all.
We're not really going to talkabout it, honestly, but we are
going to do predictions.
It's at home.
It's the early game, 12.30 onSaturday.
Adam, what do you think?
Everton, man United not what itused to be.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Well, yeah, I mean, united are terrible, um,
objectively terrible.
Like they have this idea that,because we all grew up seeing
them, that like look how they'reunderperforming like they're
not.
They're actually an objectivelyawful football team, um, and
we're, you know, on the up, um,uh, so we're gonna lose.
Um, we're gonna lose two, lose2-0, because United always get a

(56:31):
result against us, because theyare our bogey team Whenever
they need a result.
They just absolutely twat us4-0 in Ruben Amirim's only
notable win and they battered us3-0 at Goodison last year.
So we're going to lose 2-0.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I can't believe I'm adopting the persona of the
positive one, but I think we'regoing to win 2-0.
I can't believe I'm adoptingthe persona of the positive one,
but I think we're going to win2-0, because I think I mean man
United.
I don't know what their injurycrisis is like now, but at the
weekend they basically had tolist a subs bench was Victor
Lindelof and then a load ofrandomly generated player names,
like literally between the restof the, obviously the nine subs

(57:10):
, they had Lindelof and theneight people who had never made
it, never played a minute in thepremier league.
So they are like you thinkinjury ravage doesn't doesn't
describe it.
I don't know if they'll haveanyone back, but you know that
team is not a good team and ifyou're asking them to play
essentially another full 90minutes, you know that's
Casemiro and players thatprobably can't like are not in a

(57:34):
position in their careers wherethey can do that.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
So yeah, I think we'll win 2-0, because we're on
the up and they're not.
Are they playing?

Speaker 2 (57:45):
this week I'm trying to see.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
No, they're not.
They're not automatically Ibelieve.
Okay, they are, Because thatwould be the injury point is
profoundly important we're alsoplaying Saturday at half 12 UK
time as well, so obviously itwould be Sunday if they were
playing Thursday.
Good point.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, good point.
Yeah, look, I think we're goingto win.
Adam, you're totally rightabout your read of history.
I just think this man Utd team,like watching man Utd Spurs
game the other day, was likewatching those games.
You know those games they doevery year where Robbie Williams
plays and they do like a bunchof celebs against like players
who were like 50.
It was like watching one ofthose.

(58:23):
I mean, it was like it washorrible, horrible, horrible
football from two really badteams.
No confidence, no gu guile, nofinesse.
Um, and I think man united theydon't have very good players.
Their players are mediocre,most of them are injured and I

(58:47):
think, tactically, amarin ishopelessly naive.
He plays.
He plays what?
Because here's the problem withplaying one way Everyone knows
how you're going to play everysingle time because you've made
it.
Your whole thing is you'regoing to play this way.
He plays without a centralmidfield, so it's like, well, it
doesn't matter, it doesn'tmatter what else you're going to

(59:09):
do.
If you're Everton or howeveryou play, you're going to go.
Okay, we're going to exploitthat, and they just get taken to
pieces every time.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
On the central midfield question.
I know we need to wrap up, buta very quick, prompt question.
Decore is back from suspension.
Do you bring him back in or doyou go with the team that played
against Palace?

Speaker 1 (59:28):
I would keep the team that played against Palace.
I I would keep the team playsagainst.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Palace.
I would.
I don't think he will.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
I think he'll bring Decore back in, but I do would
like him to stick to the teamagainst Palace because what I, I
would do, what I, you know, Idon't know what he will do, but
what I would actually do is Ithink you do both you, I think
you play Decore next day as a asday, as a as uh in the two and

(59:51):
then you get alcaraz.
Um, you play alcaraz in the 10because I think that gives us
more going forward and I thinkalso decoray's energy in that
midfield.
To the austin's point aboutthem not having a central
midfield, I think you just youtear those pieces by having
decoray just run around in there, because for all of like, you
know, we've been harsh ondecoray this season and I think
he is not the player he used tobe.
He still has the incredibleenergy to get around the pitch.

(01:00:13):
So I think deploying that inthe central midfield might not
actually be a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
No, I can see that.
And also you want to use yoursubs because you can't even
bring Garner and Iribunna on atthe right time and really run
them ragged.
The key is that they're gonnahave casimiro and, uh, bruno
fernandez and in the middle ofmidfield.
Now you've got to be able totake that to pieces.

(01:00:39):
Fernandez is a great player,but he can't hold a midfield
down.
And casimiro, I mean my oh my.
Are they in trouble with him?
300 000 pounds a week foranother two years?
I mean that's, that's prettybrutal.
So I think we'll win.
I think we'll win 2-0.
Let's see Anything else foranything else before we sail the

(01:01:00):
ship home.
All right, well, thanks forlistening.
Follow us on Spotify, applePodcasts, wherever you get your
podcasts.
We are there.
We'll be back next week and,yeah, happy times.
Come on, you boys.