Dyche Out

Dyche Out. That is all.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The run's still not really, on paper, a bad run if
you had wins in it.
But we haven't had wins in it.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to episode 80 of the Blues Brothers Misery
cast.
We were all funny enough.
All five of us were all here.
We were all together earlier on, but it was too chaotic so we
didn't record the podcast.
So Andy's now back home, but meand Dad and Adam and Ben are in
together, so it's good to beable to do it, dad how are you

(00:43):
doing?

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm doing very well, thank you.
Thank you.
Great to have had all the yearsover christmas and I know you
all go home tomorrow we'll missnew york, so it's been excellent
that's sunny optimism has keptus going through today.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
We'll come back to that later.
Uh, how are you doing I'm good.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, it's been great to have everyone here for an
extended period than was planned.
Obviously, it was good tocreate it to all four of us in
the same place for the firsttime in two and a half years.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Ben.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, great.
We are flying home later thisweek, so we'll miss everyone
when we're gone, but it's beengreat to be here in the UK.
Clouds and silver linings.
Ben wouldn't be here, but hiswife got norovirus, so delayed a
little bit.
And Andy, how's life?

Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'm good.
Thank you, yes, likewise, it'sbeen great to see everybody over
the last couple of weeks, andagain it was good to be have us
all in the same room thisafternoon.
But I can't lie, it is nice tobe home in a house that's much
quieter than mum and dad's wasearlier on.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Are you suggesting that there was something like?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
noisy and rambunctious going on earlier on
here.
That might have settled it.
Yes, yes, yes, that's exactlywhat I'm suggesting Rambunctious
, good word, like it.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Adam does need to stop giving his kids acid.
That's good.
What can I say?
Yes, you wait, they do sleepdon't they are sound asleep.
Austin's getting all these, allthese jokes and about kids now.
But yes, I've got three months.
He's got three months until herealizes that there's sometimes
there is just nothing you can do, yep, except blame someone else

(02:21):
.
Um, okay, here's what we'regoing to do.
So we're recording thisSaturday night we just lost to
Bournemouth a couple of hoursago.
We'll talk about that a littlebit.
But here's what I want to dobecause, honestly, we could
spend an hour ranting about SeanDyche, which may be cathartic,
but not maybe super interesting.
So I'm going to do a quickround robin.

(02:42):
Here's the question.
So start prepping your answers.
Do you, if you were in charge ofeverything, you're Dan Freakin'
tonight do you fire Dyche nowor do you wait for another
couple of games, let's say,because I think we can all agree
and it's not really worthdebating.
He's on the brink.
The performance today was poor.
Forrest was very poor.
Obviously, we're pretty closeto the bottom of the table.

(03:06):
Um, so I'm going to start andywith you and then we'll talk.
I want to talk about what doyou actually do?
What do we do next?
That's kind of the interestingthing for me, um, bearing in
mind kind of the squad and andwhere we're at.
But, andy, I'll start with you.
If you were down freakingtonight, do you fire dice now?
Do you do some?
Do you wait and see if thingsturn around?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Up to today's game.
I would have said give him alittle bit more time.
But having watched the gamethis afternoon and just seeing
how utterly impotent we were upfront and how limited we are
even in terms of creatingchances, let alone scoring goals
, I would sack him.

(03:46):
Now.
The last couple of games I'vecompletely changed my opinion.
I've been a Dice supporterrelatively recently but I would
sack him now.
In the Friedkin group I've justbought the club and they've not
bought it to be hosting WickhamWanderers and Birmingham City in
the Bramley Moor Dock Stadiumnext season.
And it's one thing to playdefensive football and have

(04:13):
Everton you know nil and notconceding goals.
That is fine.
That is 50% of your job done.
But the other 50% is scoringgoals at the other end and we're
just not doing it.
And Dyche has demonstrated nowtime and again that he's a
limited manager and he's notcapable of adequately coaching

(04:34):
attacking players.
We spoke this afternoon aboutthe daft comments that he said
in a press conference this weekthat you can't coach attacking
players, which is justcompletely nonsense.
Of course you can coachattacking players.
He might not be able to andhe's demonstrating on a weekly
basis that he's not able to.
Other managers and bettermanagers manage it.

(04:56):
So, to answer the question, ifI was Dan Freakin I would be
looking at that performancetoday and be really worried,
because I think there's only oneway we're going under dice the
rest of this season and that'sinto the relegation zone.
Because we are just so limitedup front.
It's almost frightening towatch.
We just don't even look likecreating enough chances, let

(05:20):
alone scoring goals, and you arenot going to get enough points
to stay in the league just bydrawing every game 0-0.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Dad, after those three drawn games, I was looking
forward, looking to the Forestgame to be a bit of a watershed
of what's the rest of the seasongoing to be like, and I think I
and a lot of other Evertonianswere fairly hopeful.
You know that, having got those, well, there were three good
performances and we could havebeaten city.

(05:48):
If you recall that, that's thelast minute attack, um, but
maybe that last minute attackshowed exactly what's wrong with
us.
We couldn't finish but by thebike, and I was terribly
disappointed against forrest Ithink we all were the the
performance was abject.
It it was absolutely hopeless.
And then we come to Bournemouthtoday and you know, I sort of

(06:11):
think back to a couple ofseasons ago when we played
Brighton.
Remember we ended up winning5-2, I think, and that came from
nowhere.
And you know, I'm sort ofhoping maybe we'll get another
performance like that.
And you know, the first five orten minutes they were on the
front foot and I thought thislooks different.
Unfortunately it didn't lastbeyond that.

(06:33):
So come back to your question.
I don't know, I think I wouldsack Dice now.
I think, I think I would, Imean, I think I think I would, I
mean early on today I mighthave been thinking well, ok,
let's see how they get againstVilla, let's see how they get on

(06:54):
against Spurs.
The realistic side of me saysit ain't going to be any
different.
It's going to be like Forrestall over again and we will have
missed the opportunity of twogames to do two home games
against teams who are good teams.
But we should be capable ofbeating.

(07:15):
I think if we just carry ondoing as we did today against
Forest, we won't get anythingfrom those games.
So change now.
Hopefully somebody's lined up.
If they haven't got somebodylined up, well, they're culpable
.
But if they've got somebodylined up, sack him now and
fingers crossed that things pickup again from next week.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
We'll come back to who's next, and I'll just say,
if you can't, the five of uswould put a goal or two past
Spurs, so that really would bebad.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Adam to say if you can't, the five of us would put
a goal or two past Spurs, youknow that really would be bad
Adam.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, I agree, I would sack him now.
There's no hope that anything'sgoing to be different.
I consider myself a veryoptimistic fan, but there's no
indication that anything's goingto change.
You know I've said thiscountless times amongst
ourselves and a couple of timeson the podcast, but it's worth
reiterating.
Dyche has this ability to justturn everything back into

(08:14):
mentality and everything intoplucky Everton, and he has
driven a narrative thatindicates that he himself knows
that he is not capable ofcoaching us to be better than
what we currently are.
Um, and the stats, um, thestatistics of you know our goals
and goals scored and goalsagainst uh, back it up.

(08:34):
You know he's a very gooddefensive coach.
No one's no one's denying that.
You know we've scored the sixthjoint sixth fewest goal in the
league at 25 um.
But today's opponents born youmean mean conceded.
You said scored.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I was wondering where those other 16 goals came from
yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
So we've conceded the joint sixth fewest goals in the
league.
But just to sort of make a.
You know, the quote that you'vereferenced earlier, austin,
amongst ourselves, was how, um,I said you can't, you can't

(09:14):
necessarily coach attacking likeattacking intent in the mean
and that's just obviouslyclearly nonsense.
But today's opponents,bournemouth, have scored 30
goals, um, scored 30 goals,scored obviously one and a half
goals a game, but they'veconceded two fewer goals than us
.
So defensively they're betterand offensively they are better
and aesthetically they arebetter because they have a good

(09:35):
coach with.
Let's face it on the face of itare their players statistically
that much better?
No, they're not.
They're just much better.
Coached statistically that muchbetter?
No, they're not, they're justmuch better coach and daisha's
and daisha's rhetoric around hisconstantly undermining us is
his way of expressing I don'tknow what the I'm doing anymore.
He's lowering expectationsbecause he's an arrogant

(10:00):
dinosaur of a coach, who I'm andit's and it's.
And I will caveat it with thefact that you know he put it
into context getting 48 pointslast season was fantastic and he
undoubtedly has kept us up, buthe did that because he was
taking a players and thementality worked.
The mentality element has nowlifted.

(10:20):
That's got.
It's gone.
Yeah, they need coaching and hecannot do it.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
We now turn to notorious Sean Dyche apologist
Ben.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Stunners.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I'm just glad that you finally decided that I was
right.
All along I've said we shouldhave sacked Sean Dyche after the
first Bournemouth game.
So yeah, we should definitelysack him now.
The thing I would highlight iswe are now at the point where,
to Adam's point, we are beingtreated like idiots by the

(10:55):
manager.
We've talked about this as well.
Football fans aren't as dumb asprofessional managers.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
We all know what we're watching.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
We've watched thousands of hours of football.
So when Sean Dyche putsAbdelida Kouré the man who can't
create, think quickly or passand plays him as a number 10,
and expects us to believe that'sthe best way for us to win
games, we all know that's nottrue, because we have eyes and
we can watch football.
So it's just at the point whereit's just it sort of defies any

(11:32):
like logic or any sort ofcompetence that that you
continue to approach games inthat way and expect to get
positive results.
We have I mean, we can all helpon the statistics.
You know coming out youreyeballs about how bad we are
offensively, but over our last10 games we've scored five goals
.
Four of them were from setpieces against Wolves in one
game and the other one was in GIagainst man City.
Our top scorer over those last10 games is Craig Dawson, who

(11:56):
plays for Wolves Like you justcannot.
I'm going to put on my optimisthat ever so slightly now,
because I don't actually thinkSean Dyche will get us relegated
, because I think Southampton,ipswich and Leicester are worse
than us.
But that shouldn't be the bar,the idea that we're settling for

(12:18):
a man who sets us up to playlike this and delivers these
awful performances.
My last game at the Dursun inAustin and last game at the Durs
, austin's last game at Goodisonwas at Forest and we were
laughing that it was fittingthat we were utterly awful and
lost 2-0, because it would havefelt weird if we played him off
the park in a 3-0 victory.
But you just can't continuedown this path on the basis that

(12:40):
, oh well, he'll keep us up, sothat's okay.
It's like what.
There are plenty of managersout there who will keep us up,
like the idea that sean dychealone is the only person in
world football capable ofkeeping this team in the premier
league is absolute nonsense,and I'm sort of glad that we're
now sort of at the point whereit's much more not widely
understood and widely accepted.

(13:00):
But we're actually able to havea conversation that goes beyond
oh well, you know he kept us uptwo years ago and we got 48
points last season.
It's like great.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
Thank you for that what have you done for me lately
we've also we've scored thesecond fewest goals.
Who's?

Speaker 2 (13:13):
scored fewer goals than us.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Southampton.
I think incredible.
Who beat us back?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
yeah well, I was.
The last.
Three Southampton managers haveonly won one home game and
they've all been against us.
Nathan Jones won one game, thelast three Southampton managers
have each only won one game.
It's been us every time, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I mean, and further to the point about scoring goals
, we've scored 15 in 19 games.
Wolves, who are obviouslyaround us in the table, have
scored 31.
So, alright, now, alright, yousaid defensively, clearly
they're shipping loads, but evenso, I mean 15 goals we've
scored.
That's pathetic, that's justpathetic.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
The other thing about that is that one of those
things is a shitload easier tosolve than the other.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Because as.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Sean demonstrates, solving the defensive bit is the
easy bit.
Scoring goals is really hard,so I would much rather be Wolves
than us.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Because if I'm Wolves , I'm like hey, we can score
goals.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
We just need to keep typing back and we'll be fine,
we have a much bigger problem.
If you go to every game knowingif you concede one, that's
probably it, then like you want,like it puts pressure it puts
pressure.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah with um, with dyche as well.
He said, like he said whatevermultiple times in post-match
interviews saying you know um,scoring goals is the hardest
thing.
It's like you've been in chargefor two and a half.
Well, this was I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
This was a thing with you know julia bold, who's very
, you know, a great BBCjournalist who covers Everton,
kind of skewered him.
I mean his public statements, Ithink, are becoming slightly
embarrassing, honestly.
I mean the one you'll haveheard it at the start of the pod
.
It's just a brilliant, you know, the run's not bad if you put
some wins in.
It's like Sean.

(15:06):
You know, if my grandmother hadwheels, she'd be a bike,
wouldn't she?
It's just like absurd.
But in his press conference thisweek, you know, julia Bold
asked him about bringing in atackle coach and whether he
considered that, and he saidwell, you know, he basically
said two things that are likeludicrous, basically saying that
the reason strikers are soexpensive is you can't teach

(15:26):
players how to score goals.
You either have it or youhaven't.
And today, in his post-matchtoday again, listen to the whole
thing he says it's about thatintent and that desire to score.
It's like no, no, it's not not.
Everything is about mental yes.
Like it's not just about gutsand tenacity, it's about skill
and having patterns of play andways of playing that create

(15:47):
chances, because we did have aproblem previously, particularly
last year, putting chances away.
We have not.
We created one chance, I wouldsay against Forest without Beto
ahead.
I mean Calvert-Lewin had aheader that was.
I mean anyone would have anyfunctioning human would have
said Beto had a header was adecent header.
And today we had you know heliterally just pointed to that

(16:10):
Decore shot from outside the boxas if he was, and he said, oh,
our fans didn't see it, but andthat's what we're clinging to,
we're not even, we're not evencreating chances and creative
chances, and we have a managerwho believes that that half of
the game can't be coached.
I mean that that I'm sort ofembarrassed for him, honestly.
I want to.

(16:30):
We're gonna.
There's a.
There's a history.
There's a good history in thispodcast of people promoting
managers who then turn out to beshit.
So so we're gonna play a gamein a minute of who gets to dig
themselves in the next hole.
So we'll, we'll get to that.
I just want to talk a little bit, ben you, you sort of raised
this earlier on about thedressing room.
Yeah, do you think dyche haslost the dressing room and I say

(16:52):
that because you know he was.
He was pretty critical of theplayers after forest.
You know he said they didn't dowhat he, what he instructed
them to do, which may be true,but maybe it's just that's still
his job anyway today.
He was specifically critical ofJarrod Brathwaite for
Bournemouth's goal.
Now, if you watch it,brathwaite does duck down, which
is a strange thing for him todo, but he obviously thought it

(17:12):
was going wide, I think, and hedidn't want to deflect it for a
corner or whatever, which isobviously a mistake or deflect
it into the net, which isobviously a mistake, but I
thought that was a sign ofsomething.
But you've thought about this alot.
Yeah, I just think, as soon asyou get to the point where you

(17:33):
are calling out individuals oreven the team collectively in
your post-match, what does thatsay to the players?
That says to the players well,you're not on my side.
You're not going to go outthere and defend me.
And we've all worked for peopleor managed people in our lives
and the biggest thing you haveto be able to do as a leader is
allow your team to understandthat you have their back right,
that whatever happens, you willaddress things in private if you

(17:55):
need to, but you will defendthem to the people you need to
defend them to.
And it's totally unacceptablefor dice to go out there and
throw jared branthwaite, who wasa very key part of keeping this
up last season a young playerwe shouldn't forget, like not,
you know, still learning istotally unacceptable.
For the dice to go out andbasically basically go.
Well, this result is his fault,which is what he's kind of done

(18:18):
there was a story a couple weeksago that um did the rounds,
that there was a bust upup,shall we say, between Pickford
and Dyche after the Brentfordgame where?
because, as you may all remember, in that game Brentford and
Mann sent off just beforehalftime and we played 45
minutes against 10 men and webasically didn't create anything

(18:40):
and drew 0-0.
And Pickford, in apost-matchatch somewhere said
that it was two points dropped,which, to be very clear, it is
you play 10 men against 45minutes.
At home, you should be winningthat game.
Apparently, there was adisagreement between Pickford
and Dyche because Dyche wasn'thappy that Pickford was framing

(19:01):
it that way publicly, becausehis preferred framing was well,
we're unbeaten in six, orwhatever it was at that point,
and that was what he said afterthe game.
That was what Ashley Young saidafter the game.
So I really think you saw himsay after the Forest game well,
the players didn't do what Iwanted in the first half which,
by the way, sean, is your faultLike that's not the players,
like, if they're not followingyour instructions and that's
your failing as a leader.

(19:22):
And now he throws Brantwayunder the bus.
This is the Mourinho thing,right?
This only goes one way.
Once you start doing that, garyO'Neill Exactly, once you start
going out there and justactively blaming individual
players, this is like on thefast track to him.

(19:42):
And Brantway in trainingtomorrow.
Now Branthwaite's aprofessional.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Obviously you have to take the criticism and he is a
brilliant professional.
Because calling him out likethat after he has been the
subject of huge transfer?
You know he was subject tothree bids in the summer by
United.
Yeah, and he didn't actually,and and at no point did he.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah there was no sources close to Brent, the
player saying that no, he's kepthis head down.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
He's got on with it.
He's come back from injury andbeen really really good.
So you know, sean Dyche isabsolutely scandalous that he's
come back today.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, those comments about Brantwaite after the game
today are just completelyunacceptable.
I mean because if you are goingto say that about the goal,
then you've equally got tomention in the same breath the
fact that he made almost agoal-saving tackle in the second
half where a lad was throughand he made a perfectly timed
challenge and put it out for acorner.

(20:37):
Now he mistimes that we giveaway a free kick or a penalty
and he possibly gets sent off.
So to not acknowledge that inthe same breath, it's just not
acceptable.
It really is not.
Sorry, go on.
Yeah, I mean it's, and that'sjust the thing I can think of.
I mean I've no doubt.

(20:58):
I mean there was other times inthe game when Brant Waite was in
the right place and got hishead on the ball or made a
challenge or did exactly thething that a centre-back should
do to stop an opposition attackor to snuff out danger.
So, even if the goal is BrantWaite's fault, his other actions

(21:19):
on the pitch saved us concedinggoals.
So Brant Waite must be going.
Even if he goes, well, allright, yeah, I maybe shouldn't
have ducked, but I did all thisother good stuff in the game.
And then the manager is focusingon the one time I did something
wrong that resulted in the goal.
Now, if I work for somebodylike that, who I do a good job

(21:40):
95% of the time, and I'm justpicked up on the one time I make
a mistake, my attitude to thatmanager is like, well, screw you
, pal, I've lost all faith inyou.
And then, as we've alreadyalluded to, that relationship
between you and the manager, whoshould be leading and guiding
you is broken.
So I think the relationshipbetween the manager and the

(22:03):
dressing room at Everton isbetween certain players, players
is irrevocably broken now.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Statistically, the carrot is five times more
effective than the stick.
Like in behaviour management inschools, and it's a weird link
with the rhythm.
A phone call home to a child isup to anything between 10 and
20 times more powerful than anegative phone call About the
same thing.
In terms of changing theirbehaviour.
It's exactly the same thing.

(22:32):
Calling out players like thatis the worst thing that you can
do.
But Dyche doesn't like to bepositive in terms of praising
players In general.
When he scored his goal.
It's wild that you can say hisgoal, yes, exactly.
He, um, the, the, the.

(22:54):
The interviewer basically putit, to put it in saying like he
was.
The question was asked in a waywhere it was like it was a
great bit of skill by enjoy,like does he do that?
And he was sort of does he dothat in training?
And he was like, and Dyche waslike yeah, he has got a bit of
that about him.
He's got a bit of that abouthim.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's like yeah, but he quickly wanted to move on but
, then, but then he, but then he, literally then.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
His next sentence was about mentality and it's like
he can't, it's like he doesn'tlike the fact that he has these
goalful players because, I think, subconsciously, he doesn't
know how to coach them.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
He's almost yeah, and it's like.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
He's like a hard 80s PE teacher in short shorts
telling people to run and theperson who can kick it furthest
and run fastest is the best.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
All right.
So, Daishao, we're going toplay a game of who gets to pick
the next managerial disaster.
So we've had.
What have we had?
I was pro Benitez, believe itor not, Andy championed Sean
Daish.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
You guys championed a manager.
That was a complete disaster.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I think I was behind Daish, but only because the
other candidates weren't.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I can't remember where I was on Lampard and
Pereira.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
I was pro-Lampard over Pereira.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, I think I was probably pro-Lampard over
Pereira as well.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah, so, Daesh, what was your managerial disaster?
Class Well.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
I mean the obvious one is Graham Potter.
The problem there is that wedon't know what he's like with a
team that has the problems thatEverton have got.
When he came to prominence withBrighton, it was when they
actually started playing reallygood football, and we don't know
again what the starting pointwas with those players.

(24:42):
So that seems to be the obviouschoice.
Uh, beyond that, I don't know.
I hope that the new owners havea pretty good idea of the right
coach for Everton and theproblems that they have.
Certainly they've had enoughtime to consider it.
I'd be amazed if they hadn'tbeen considering it.

(25:03):
So, so I could guess a name,but I'd rather say, as I've just
said, let's hope that they knowwho to appoint and let's hope
that whoever he is is the rightman.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Adam, do you want to sell Graham Potter on to us?

Speaker 4 (25:22):
I'm going to be a bit , I'm going to be pessimistic
here and I don't think, I don'tthink we can attract, think I
don't think we can attract.
I don't think we can attractGraham Potter, because I think
the only thing that wouldattract us to Graham Potter is
the stadium and the fact that hecould lead us into the stadium.
I think that's a huge pull.
That's the only thing, becauseI think Graham Potter has been

(25:42):
approached by lots of clubs.
He's been approached by PremierLeague clubs, since his second,
by Chelsea, and he's beenapproached by teams on the
continent as well, and he'sturned them all down.
I don't see, I don't see any.
I don't see many reasons, apartfrom the stadium, why he would
want to, why he would come backinto the Premier League for us

(26:04):
and you've also got now theprospect of Spurs sacking
Postacoglu, so I think there'sthat element to it as well He'd
be maybe waiting for the Spursjob, which is obviously,
objectively, a much morelucrative position than the

(26:26):
amateur manager.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
And also comes in the shining stadium?

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yes, exactly.
So I think it's great to talkabout Graham Potter.
I just wouldn't.
If it were me, I wouldn't getyou hooked up about getting him
because I don't think he's asrealistic as other candidates.
I can see it being.
I can see Moyes being morelikely.
To be honest and to go back toyour point, whether you want to
him or not, I think he is.
In my opinion, he's a morelikely candidate.

(26:51):
To go back to your point, dan,about the free king group, I
think you're right.
I think we need to make surethat they have a good idea of
who they want, but I think, moreimportantly, kevin Selwell
needs to have a good idea of whohe wants as well.
Because Thelwell needs to havea good idea of who he wants as
well, because that's the thingthat's always been the issue.
Since Moshiri came in 2016,there's been that complete lack

(27:12):
of strategic thinking around.
Director of football andmanager.
So Kevin Thelwell having avision of how he wants football
to be played and the way thestructure of the club works,
from the youth set up all theway the structure of the club
works, from the youth set up allthe way to the first team he
needs to be, and he is drivingthat, I'm sure, but he needs
someone who's going to come inand work with that, not against

(27:36):
it.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
And come back to David Morris.
I mean he did recently say thatif he did come back into
management he wouldn't want tocome into a relegation fight.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
So I think he's out of the frame yeah, okay, I
didn't know the one that I.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I'm on record repeatedly being Graham Potter,
but I do understand where Adam'scoming from.
I don't think necessarily we'reas attractive proposition as we
sometimes like to think.
The one that I'm actuallyreally worried about is Gareth
Southgate, because he would hitthe like oh, he's a big name and
he's you know, it would showintense and stuff, but I

(28:13):
actually think he's not a verygood club manager and I think
what he did at internationallevel was very, was incredible
and he was very successful inthe manager.
He was knighted for it and allthat.
I actually don't think he wouldbe a very good club manager,
but he's the one that sort ofgets linked to, not specifically
to us, but to like managers whoare available when you know and
might be in a position to takeover premier league clubs, and

(28:33):
that would be the one that, that, that would.
That would worry me, um, butyeah, I mean I I think I
championed graham potter whenancelotti left, so I'm not going
to not going to change myopinion now, but I do agree with
Adam, we need to.
If we're going to do that andthis goes back to our first
conversation you need to movequickly, because fast forward a

(28:56):
couple of weeks, I mean, youknow I'm not watching you now.
I've Spurs sat past theCogglielo already.
They might like they might waituntil a couple of weeks.
So like if you have a view that, take Graham Potter, for
example if Graham Potter isavailable and wants to be able
to manage it, what are youwaiting for?
Because the other thing aboutthe Dyche thing is like what's

(29:19):
the best case scenario of this?
Like he keeps us up bysomewhere between five and ten
points come the end of theseason it's like okay, you can't
hope for anything better thanthat.
So why are we sat around?
We're all sitting around hopingit changes or hoping it gets
better.
I saw someone describe itearlier as being an evidence

(29:41):
supporter right now is likebetting betting on a
three-legged horse and hoping itgrows a fourth one during the
race.
Like it is it is, it isessentially just praying that it
gets better, with no evidencethat it's it's going to based on
anything we've seen so far.
Like we would.
We were having thisconversation, you know, pre-game
like about whether he wouldpick ashley young and nathan

(30:03):
patterson.
You know we all hoped he wouldpick nathan patterson, but we
all kind of knew he'd pickashley young and lo and behold
well, I guess I guess I didn'tcorrectly guess the entire
starting 11, you know, before itcame out.
Because he's just, he's reallypredictable.
For Dijs' credit, he found away to play both of them.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yes, he did.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
He did Andy thoughts on who would come next or should
be, yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
I agree with the difficulties around attracting
Graham Potter.
With the difficulties aroundattracting Graham Potter, would
he want to come into the throesof a relegation battle?
I'm not sure that he would.
Is he holding out for the Spursjob?
Very possibly.
Moore is an interesting one,although we obviously mentioned

(30:51):
that he doesn't want to comeinto a relegation battle either,
so he'd have to change his tunearound that.
I agree with Ben about GarethSouthgate.
He'd be the sort of big namethat the three-team group would
arguably want.
But again, is he the rightperson for our current
predicaments?
I'm not sure that he is.

(31:11):
I mean, there's a couple of goodmanagers further down the
football pyramid.
Mark Robbins, who's just goneto Stoke, has always done a very
solid job at all the clubs thathe's managed and he had a very
successful seven or eight yearsat Coventry until he was sacked
and they appointed Frank Lampard, and there's many or a strongry

(31:34):
.
Until he was sacked and theyappointed Frank Lampard, and
there's many, many or a strongview that he was very
unfortunate to be sacked fromthat role, including, I mean no
Coventry fans wanted him gone,for example, but the owner
wanted a bigger name and has nowappointed Frank Lampard.
And then you've got MattBloomfield at Wickham as well,

(31:55):
who's taken them to the heightsof League One now.
But again, for either of thoseit'd be a heck of a step up to
now we'd be an attractionbecause we're a Premier League
club, so we'd be an attractionfor those sorts of managers, but
you'd be taking a heck of arisk putting a manager like that
into a club in ourcircumstances.

(32:18):
So to answer the question as towho could possibly be the next
manager, I don't know whichadmittedly doesn't doesn't
particularly help for gooddebates but there's no.
There's no obvious candidate,because we either struggle to
attract them in Moyes or well,we struggle to attract them with

(32:39):
Potter.
Moyes is on the record sayinghe wouldn't want to join a club
in our situation.
There's serious reservationsabout Southgate's managerial
acumen at club level and anybodywho is appointed to the Premier
League from a lower league clubwould be a big risk in terms of
would they be able to keep usin the league.

(33:00):
So throw a name, throw a name.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Jose Mourinho not saying it's a good idea.
That's what people's views.
Dad, Jose Mourinho, yes or no?

Speaker 3 (33:16):
No, why Well?
I don't think he plays the typeof football that we're looking
for.
He's very defensive.
Was he the one who said Did hepark a?

Speaker 2 (33:28):
bush, I can't remember.
He said that about someone else, but he is definitely a
defensive manager.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
no doubt he's definitely a defensive manager.
If he could guarantee, which hecan't, we'd stay up and say
yeah, but no, no, not Mourinho,not for me.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I ask because the Greek kids know him.
They appointed him in Roma,they fired him, but they fired a
coach a week at Roma, so it'sprobably too much.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
I mean he's also not available for the Fenerbahce.
Yeah, but I think he he's quiteopenly said that.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
He wants to come back to the Premier League he would
come back to the.
Premier League no no.
There's no guarantee that hewould keep you up.
I mean he probably would,because I think Sean Dyche
probably would, but I don'tthink the football gets
significantly better and we allknow that it falls apart with
Mourinho after 6, 12, 18 months.

(34:20):
So we'd be hiring another guynext January anyway, yeah,
paying him a lot of money.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
He'd want.
I think you'd be looking atlike 7.5, 10 million a year.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
And also.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Mourinho to be your manager, which would just be
insane.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
The Mourinho thing is exactly the sort of thing that
Moshiri would have done, becauseit's a big name that doesn't
make any fucking sense.
You would hope that thefreaking group have more of an
idea about what the direction ofthe club is, that they're not
going to make a kind of spur ofthe moment, short-term you know,
based on name brand decision.

(35:00):
You know, I think it would be a.
I think it would be a very badindictment on their start to the
their ownership if the firstdecision they essentially made
was to was to hire jose marino.
I think that would be.
I would look look at that Iwould be very concerned that
that was the they thought wasthe best thing for Everton
football.
I mean short term big name.

(35:21):
It's exactly what they've doneat Roma.
Now I'm going to.
Maybe they've learned from that, but you know, point to
Mourinho fired him.
I went to some other guy, firedhim.
Appointed De Rossi Club legend.
Fired him.
The.
The CEO resigned because thefan protest was so bad.
They've had a pretty chaotictime with managers over there.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You've only got to hope they've learnt from that.
One other point on Mourinho ifhe was still a top-class
football manager, he wouldn't bemanaging a club in Turkey.
He'd be in the Premier League,or Germany or Spain, and it's a
testament that his stock'sfallen, that he's managing
Fenerbahce.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think he's from between thelines, I think Mourinho is seen
as like some sort of a bit of alaughing stock now.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, he's a busted flush.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, I think he was very good in the noughties and
has sort of been living off that.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I agree.
I just wanted to say it becauseI thought it would be funny.
Alright, so, daishao, we haveno idea who we would replace, so
that's helpful.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Good thing we're not in charge.
It is a good thing we're not incharge.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
It is a good thing we're not in charge.
Let's talk a little bit abouttransfers and a little bit about
the next couple of games.
So the transfer window's open,which I'd forgotten about until
someone said it today becauseI've been in such a pit of
depression about the wholeEverton thing.
Let's assume I think the clubhave been quite co-oriented as

(36:57):
PSR and there is PSR, but we'vemade a net profit over the last
five years, so our PSR stuffcan't be that bad.
I know it rolls over at the endof the season so the sum will
be different, but presumablythere is some money to spend
because we've got owners withcash and you know they've sorted
out debt and all that sort ofstuff.
What's the area of the squad?

(37:18):
Andy, I'll come to you first.
What area of the squad shouldwould?
Should we prioritize with whatkind of player?
Maybe, because I know you'renot going to say defense, but
what do you think we need?

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Well, actually I'm going to say defence because,
ironically, despite our goodEverton, nil left back.
Well, you can make a case for,apart from goalkeeper, every
position need strengthening.
But to zone in on a couple ofspecific ones, I think left back

(37:50):
Mikalenko you can tell he knows.
Unless you can tell he knows,there's nobody putting pressure
on him for his position.
He's been very disappointing inthe majority of games this
season, so a left-back would beone.
I mean, every time I look atLuka Dean playing for Aston

(38:12):
Villa I almost weep because Ithink you know we sold that guy
and got Mikalenko.
I mean, that's just anillustration of you replace a
player who's not as good as theone that's left and you just get
worse as a team.
But the main position and thisis where you arguably need

(38:33):
another manager other than Dycheto manage this is more
creativity midfield, becauseit's obvious that we're not
creating enough chances orscoring enough goals.
So if you've got a morecreative player in central
midfield or to play on one ofthe flanks, then you need a

(38:56):
manager other than Dyche tocoach him because, as we've
discussed already, dyche is justnot capable of coaching
attacking players.
So you could argue that if yougot players in, you'd almost
have to change the manager atthe same time, because if you
change the players, I don'tthink Dy I should be capable of
getting anything that differentout of them.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
I'd say a winger, a right winger, so you'd have a
new right winger and then DwightMcNeil.
And then come to a point thatwas made earlier that
Calvert-Lewin made that year.
He scored lots of goals, hewent with angelo.
She was there where his job wasto just stay in the box, and
yeah, absolutely loads of goals,but we've had two chances

(39:45):
already to sign two rightwingers.
We cocked that up, so I'm notconfident that, you know, we
make the right choice now.
If we need a right wingerMidfield, I agree there's a need
there.
The only positive thing is thatthere's Tim and Garner, who are
there to come back Now.
Whether or not they're goodenough to create the creativity

(40:08):
that will provide the creativitywe need is a bit doubtful.
The other thing is looking atthe, the both full-back
positions.
Um, most successful teams nowhave attacking fullbacks, you
know, and that's why they arecreating.
Other teams are creating farmore chances.
I think that's one of theproblems we've got.
So I think, over longer term,we probably need two fullbacks

(40:32):
who you know are good enoughdefensively and that's the
question mark case patterson,based on today's performance,
unfortunately, um, but we'regood.
I say good enough defensively,but good enough to, you know,
augment the attack and give usthat extra dimension of more
players going forward I don'tthink we've got very much money

(40:52):
and, as I say, of more playersgoing forward, I don't think
we've got very much money and,as I say, the per, the players
that we bought with not muchmoney haven't been very good and
we played, so I don't see why,how that can change this january
.
So I think the reality in mymind is that we're stuck with
what we've got.
In a sense, it's an interestingpoint.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Isn't it sorry about it?
About the midfield, because ifyou think about the teams that
play what we've got, in a senseit's an interesting point, isn't
it Sorry, ben?
I'll come to you in a secondAbout the midfield, because if
you think about the teams thatplay well, playing lots of games
, you know Liverpoolparticularly, I think Arsenal,
more or less, are up there.
It's not so much actually thatthey've got these kind of
brilliant central midfielders.
They either have great playerswho play from wide.

(41:34):
They have someone like DeBruyne who I mean he's a
midfielder but not really I meanhe plays much more forward than
that Odegaard yeah, those kindof players or they do something
a bit like Liverpool, I think,have all three of these, which
is what makes them so dangerous.
They have someone likeAlexander-Arnold who's a right
back but really his danger is hesteps up as an extra man in
that space.

(41:55):
So that classic like when I wasgrowing up watching football,
it was that yeah, you're acreative playmaker, midfielder,
but I don't know if that rolereally is as important now
versus the combination of peoplewith really good technical
ability to create a chance andthe tactical now to be able to
engineer overloads.
We watched the Spurs gameearlier on and Spurs-Newcastle

(42:19):
Spurs are a strange team interms of how they choose to
defend, but Newcastle werebrilliant at creating moments of
overload where they could havean extra man.
And that's not about I mean,I'm sure it's a little bit about
those players, but reallyobviously it's about the
coaching, ben transfers thoughts.

(42:41):
Yeah, I agree with Andyy aboutleft back.
Actually I like michael a lotbut you need competition in that
, in that position at least,because if he gets injured then
you know you're playing actuallyyoung there and then you know
you're playing one pass and acommon right back and it starts
to look, you know, start to lookshort.
I think.
I think you can actually solvea couple of problems with one
signing actually, because if hesigned a winger probably a left

(43:01):
winger, depending on where youwant to play McNeil and moved in
giant to the middle to playnumber 10, which is his actual
position, that he playsinternationally and he played at
Sheffield United when he scoredall those goals in the
championship and we play him outon the left wing where he's
been good, but you look at likeI mean I I would if, if I have

(43:22):
to watch abdulaziz one more timeplay the number 10 role.
I'm going to claw my own eyesout with a spoon that's
unfortunate because, he's goingto do it on thursday I would
imagine oh, yeah, I mean I'mfully prepared, get your spoon
ready.
But like, I think if you canstop, you can solve that.
The sort of creativityattacking from three problem
with actually one good wingdeciding because you're okay,

(43:44):
you play mcneil on one wing, newsigning on another and you go
to a jive.
Hey, you're really like you cango both ways and you're good
with both feet and you're quickand you're technical.
We're going to put you in themiddle of the part where you can
actually influence the gamemore and and ask you to play
more now I don't think in jai'slike I'm not comparing these two
players, because I don't thinkhis creativity in terms of like
final pass is as good as someonelike odegaard.

(44:05):
I don't think he sees the game,the different types of players,
but like I just think, whenyou're so limited in terms of
resources, getting your bestplayers in their natural
positions seems like I'm beingon the ball more as well, being
on the ball more is just a moreobvious thing to do.
So if I was prioritising, I'dsay you need to sign a second
left back and you need to sign awinger who allows you to move

(44:29):
the formation round or move theplayers round in the formation
to get in Gianni's best position.
But we talked about this, I'msure you about the argument that
we should play three at theback actually being the you know
being the way forward.
Yeah, you could do.
I mean this was.
Forgive me, I'll put in theshow notes who I stole this from
.
I saw it on X, but you knowthere was something going around

(44:52):
last week that actually, if youlook at our squad, our starting
lineup should be Pickford,brantwick, tarkovsky, and then a
third centre-back, keanuO'Brien, and then a midfield
four with McNeil left wing-back,mangala, garnagay, patterson,
right wing-back, and then Ndaiand Lindstrom, and then you know

(45:16):
, dolmen, cavallu and Obrosianwhich would allow more players
to play in better positions andwould take the pressure off
Maneel, I think we trust to playfrom back he's a very
well-rounded player in thatsense would take the defensive
responsibility a bit off.
And the way you play them, whichis pretty straightforward, is
when you're defending it's a5-4-1 and die, and Lindstrom, in

(45:38):
that situation, go to theflanks to defend.
You have a back five with oneup front and then, when you've
got the ball, your two fullbacks.
It's very simple your twofullbacks every single time step
up to join the midfield andjoin the attack and you always
leave three back.
It's as well as actuallyprobably suiting the players,

(46:01):
because we've got players likeyou know, michael Keane, who I
think is the fans sort of go hotand cold on.
I've gone hot and cold on, buthe's a good footballer, you know
, he's like a good technicalfootballer.
They are good technicalfootballers.
So you know, you think thosethree, you get those three at
the back.
You're like, ok, well, you'refour on two counterattacks, but
you don't really have five onthree counterattacks.
You know what I mean.
It shouldn't be that big aproblem.

(46:22):
So I think there's a goodargument.
But you know the the indictmentis interesting again because we
were looking at the you look atthe heat map.
A couple of the AFC statsaccounts that posted this his
heat map against Forest, whichis a team where you know we had
more possession than them, whichis not what we were trying to

(46:42):
do, but they hate the ball too,so we had more possession than
them.
His heat map it was theleft-back position.
Yeah, and in Dyche's systemthose See, I think Dyche maybe
could work from the left, but hecan't work from the left when
his primary job is to defend.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
And in Dyche's system the wingers prime.
Because I talked to you theweek about how you said you know
.
Basically a journalist said youknow, why are you so inflexible
?
He phrased it more eloquentlythan that, but he basically said
Ndai said look, I'm notinflexible.
I've changed everything abouthow I play.
I used to play 4-4-2.
And he plays 4-4-2 now.
Yeah, he plays with decorum.

(47:20):
We just play with one striker.
We have him in field or upthere, but we play 4-4-2.
We sort of get ourselves.
So you've got such defense.
So you could, I guess yourpoint about changing the manager
.
You could buy a world-classright winger, but Dyche is going

(47:41):
to give them such defensiveresponsibility that you won't
see the best of them.
Adam.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
Yeah, you can't have this discussion, I don't think,
without caveats, with the needto change a manager, because I
think any of these players andthese suggestions are all good
and I agree with the three atthe back idea.
Or N'Diai, I agree should bemore central, but you were
saying because he's skillful andI made the point earlier about

(48:05):
Dyche doesn't value that sort ofthing we can have this
conversation.
But there is a necessity tochange the manager.
So let's imagine that thathappens and we can add some
players, I think I was going tosay the same thing as Ben.
I think Ajayi should move intothe middle and then you should

(48:27):
look at either a right winger,as Dad suggested, or a left
winger, as Ben did, becausethat's where our strikers,
because we've got tall,technically good, physical
strikers, two of whom, anyway Imean Beto, I do think, is a good
striker.
I think he just needs to get onthe end of crosses and I think

(48:48):
he's actually quite a goodfinisher.
But that's what we should beaiming to do and I think, longer
term.
Unfortunately, as much as Ireally do have a soft spot for
Mikalenko, but I do think he isa defensively minded fullback
and I don't think he would beable to operate in that sort of

(49:11):
system, which is why you saidabout that 3-5-2 formation, why
you put McNeil there?
Because Mikalenko absolutelyhas the engine to perform that
role.
352 formation why you put McNeilthere?
Because Mikelenko absolutelyhas the engine to perform that
role.
But going forward, I just don'tthink he's good enough.
I don't think, yeah, I don'tthink.
You look at Kerkhez forBournemouth today and you look
at left-back for Spurs sorry,left-back for Newcastle, like

(49:36):
Liverpool and Livramento on theother side for Newcastle,
liverpool and Livramento on theother side for Newcastle.
And that's like you said, dad,that's the, that's the mentality
.
Now, that's what modernfootball is like you have full
backs who are not defensivelyminded, or at least it's half
and half, no not probably and wedon't play like that.

(49:57):
And if you don't play like that,but and if you want to play
like that, then unfortunatelythose sort of players need
replacing.
Now I really do think thatNathan Patterson can be that
player and he looked, you know,he very much looked like that
player when we first when we gothim.
But I don't think Mikalenko canbe that player, unfortunately.
Jimmy Garner would be analternative to.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Paterson, that is true, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
The thing people forget about, paterson, is that
there was a period of time whenLampard was in charge for the
start of that season where he'dtaken a previous season.
So when Lampard started to seeas our manager, we play actually
pretty good football and we wona decent number of games and
Nathan Patterson was thestarting right back and was
basically the first name on theteam sheet and I remember he got

(50:48):
injured about five, six gamesin and everybody was like, oh,
that's really bad, that's a bigplug.
So I think we just need to likeNathan Patterson is, I believe.
So, yeah, I think we just needto like nathan bison is, I
believe, like that has apotential to be a really really
good modern attacking fullback.
I just don't think that.
I just care about coaching himto be that.
I think diane wants hisfullbacks to be like mikalenko,

(51:08):
who I think michael anchor is.
Is your like perfect secondchoice left back yeah, because
he's like come in solid, do ajob, not not going to screw up
nothing spectacular.
And if you're playing three,five, two, you could do worse
than play him as well as yourleft center.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
Yeah, you could be right.
I think you probably would ifBrampton way is that is, it is
himself yeah, it's um and it.
You know.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
It's interesting that the where we think about um the
PSR, because interesting wherewe think about the PSR because
we don't know what the situationis.
But let's assume today, just tosave an argument, that our PSR,
like our leeway on PSR, is zero.
Right, I think we're likely tosell.

(51:50):
We've got four strikers now.
Now Brogier's on loan with anoption to buy, but I think we'll
probably have an intention tobuy him in the summer, would
imagine because what is it?
20 million and he's worth morethan that.
He's just been injured a lot.
But you know.
So you've got.
You know beto, him, calvert louand chermitty.
Chermitty is a developmentprospect.
Beto has been linked with acouple moves to italy, including

(52:14):
to roma, which would be abrilliant Chelsea-like fiddle.
So you could see a situationwhen they're talking about 20
million for Beto, then thatfrees up 20 million.
You know what I mean.
And the freekins have got thepounds and dollars to spend the
money.
There's no question about that.
You know, it's just PSR.
So I'd be surprised if wedidn't find ourselves in that,

(52:36):
or at least having the choice,because if nothing else, they
could just sell into Roma, whichcosts them no money at all.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
You know what I mean If they need to free up PSR.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
The PSR thing is interesting actually, because
all the clubs had to submittheir accounts to the Premier
League by the end of Decemberand then the date by which the
Premier League will notify clubsabout whether they are facing
breaches of PSR and potentialpoints deductions is the 12th of
January.
So there is a lot of talk thatbasically you're going to see
nothing happen transfer-wiseuntil the 12th of January, when

(53:08):
everyone knows that they'reclear on PSR, so I wouldn't
expect anything to happenimminently, but it will be
interesting to watch after thatdate.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
If they could sell Beto for £20 million the way it
works, with the fee being spreadover the value of the contract
they probably could buy two £30million players in.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
January for that £20 million.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Exactly right, and these people are smart people.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
They'll look at it and go, ok, we can move it from
that club to that club.
Which is, you know, we take 20million out of our left pocket,
put it in our right pocket andthen, you know, we free up.
You know, if Everton have got aPSL, I'll put them in Rome.
I haven't.
I don't know what the rules are, but you can absolutely.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Then what are they doing you?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
know, why are?

Speaker 2 (53:56):
they opening.
That is the advantage ofpolitical voting.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah, what are you doing?
That's how you do it.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
I suspect Trimity will go on loan somewhere.
The only other thing with thatis that obviously Calvert-Lewin
is out of contract.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you sendTrimity on loan and you sell
Beto, then you're leavingyourself with Brozier and
Calvert-Lewin who might be offin five months, which is an
end-of-season problem, I guess,but then the financial position
we hope will be entirelydifferent.
I hear you on that.

(54:23):
Yeah and they'll have.
You know, our revenue from nextyear is going to be different,
so we'll be in a different spot.
Ok, let's talk about PeterBrook, which is our next game in
the FA Cup.
I hope Ashley Young gets toplay against his son.
That'll be fun, which he coulddo.
I think it's maybe the firsttime that's happened, or the
first time it's happened in thePremier League club, because

(54:45):
he's some place for Peterboroughobviously do.
We think we're going to beatPeterborough in the FA Cup.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Andy, come to you first just before I answer that
question, I'd just like toreturn to the prospective new
manager debate and chuck anothername in.
I have a sense you've done someresearch, andy, only just
thought I had to flip throughthe 92 league clubs to see if
the manager of any sort haveleft off the page.

(55:13):
Now I don't think we get himbecause his club is having a
good season.
Both.
Eddie Howe has obviously beenin the frame for Everton manager
in the past.
No chance.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Faces are being pulled.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I just wanted to just mention it as a you know now.
Obviously last season Newcastledid not have a great season,
but this year obviously they'rehaving a great season.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
But this year obviously they're having a
better season have you met Fiff?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, I'm aware they're Fiff.
They were the Fiff team Ilooked at when I was going
through the 92 league clubs.
So I just wanted to mention itjust because he's been in the
frame before and not got the.
I have no idea if he's everbeen interviewed.
Obviously we never party tothose sorts of things, but it's
just another name to throw inand if, if he was to leave

(56:06):
newcastle for any circumstance,under any circumstances, that
would obviously change it.
But I agree, at the moment it's, it's very unlikely andy had
been doing research turned outhe'd been drinking.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Why would'm not going to get into it In Andy's
defence?
I'll leave Tony's defence in.
Obviously, you're right, it's aludicrous suggestion.
But Newcastle will fire EddieHowe in the summer.
I think that is kind of a broad.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, but if they, if Dice does stay to the end of
the season which I've alreadysaid I don't want to see happen
but if, if he does and eddiehow's available at the end of
the season, then he is themanager that we should go for if
that circumstance, set ofcircumstances pans out like.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
This is like the two ronnie's thing where you're on.
You know, you're in themastermind sketch where we have
to answer the question, thequestion previously asked.
Okay, I will.
I will not for the podcastAndy's made the most mental
suggestion.
Do you want a more mentalsuggestion?
Because I've got one Now.
This won't play out becauseDyche isn't going to last until

(57:07):
the end of the season.
He's going to get fired in thenext week.
But if he did and I can saythis breathe, because it'll
never be disproven I thinkAncelotti would come back.
I mean, I don't think.
I think genuinely, I can'tbelieve.
I'm about to say this.
I think that's less of acracker's shout than Eddie had,

(57:31):
because he came to us once andif he's done with Madrid you do
sort of get the sense he mighthave unfinished business and he
obviously still loves the club.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
New stadium.
Sorry, Abbie, but that is amore like Listen, it's all.
These are all about opinionsand debates, and it's absolutely
fine.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Some of them are right, some of them are wrong
and some of them are deservingof ridicule and potentially
sectioning.
Okay, andy, peterborough,peterborough, answer the
question this time.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Yes, well, will we beat Peterborough Now?
We should beat Peterboroughbecause they're currently only
just above the relegation zonein League One.
What could beat in a team andwill beat in a team, as we all
well know, are two verydifferent things.
I mean, they've played 24matches so far.
They've scored 41 and conceded46.

(58:26):
Mansfield won 3-0 away atPeterborough in the league a
couple of weeks ago.
So they are a team that, attheir level, score and concede
lots of goals.
So in that sense it's going tobe interesting because we should
be able, even with our verylimited attacking threat some
would say, you know, almostnon-existent attacking threat if

(58:48):
we can't put a couple of goalspast Peterborough, who've
shipped 46 goals, who've shippednearly two goals a game at
League 1 level, then we reallyhave got problems.
And of course it's worthpointing out as well that
there's no replays in the FA Cup.
So on Thursday night somebody'sgoing to win, even if it goes

(59:09):
to penalties.
So I think we will beatPeterborough and I, but I don't
think it'll be that good a watch.
I think it'll be a very narrowvictory, possibly only by the
odd goal, because we just lookso there's just such a dearth of

(59:31):
attack and creativity.
It's painful to watch.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Ben Peterborough.
We will beat Peterborough.
We will beat Peterborough.
We'll beat Peterborough 2-1.
The main thing I'm looking for,and it won't matter, it
shouldn't matter, except if welose.
And if we lose to Peterborough,dice shouldn't make it down the
tunnel to the dressing roombefore someone from the freaking
group hands him a P45.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
If we lose to Peterborough, hehas to go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
If we, if we lose to Peter, hehas to go.
Yeah, the thing I'm actuallylooking for is any indication,
any indication that he NathanPaterson, has to start it right
back.
You have to try.
You have to get some indicationthat he understands and I
realize that I'm making theargument that you've all made in
the past and I've said well,he's never going to do it.
But there has to be somerecognition that you have to
approach the game in a way thatis designed to win it.

(01:00:22):
I'm sure it would be lovely forAshley Young to play against us
so he can come on in the lasttwo minutes when we're 3-0 up.
But you cannot set up in thatgame where you are playing,
where you're starting Ashley inthe right back and any three of
you know, decore and Gay andMagari three in midfield and

(01:00:47):
like being solid at the back.
That's what I'm looking forfrom Peterborough.
The result is sort ofnotwithstanding you know what
he's got.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
I know exactly what he's going to do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
I think he listens to this podcast.
He's going to rotate.
He's going to play Michael.
He'll play the backupgoalkeeper.
He'll play Michael.
He'll play Keane instead ofBrantway to teach him a lesson
for what he did today.
He'll play Younger right backbecause of the sentimentality
thing he might rotate.
He might play HarrisonArmstrong, strong in midfield,
who was pretty good when he cameon today and then he'll bring
Jack Harrison back and he'llplay in Jai and then he might

(01:01:20):
give Beto an out like and it'llbe exactly the same set up and
it'll be the same shit and wemight get through it because
it's Peterborough.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
We're going to beat Peterborough we're going to beat
Peterborough 2-3 but it shouldhave no effect at all on Dijs'
position.
He should be judged on what'shappening in the Premier League
and if we're really thinkingthat a team that Mansfield Town
beat at Peterborough 3-0 have achance against us, well, we've

(01:01:48):
really hit the depth.
So I think it'll be a straight2-3-0 victory but, as I say, no
effect on Dijs' position, judgedon the following two games, if
he's still there on Thursday.
Adam.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I agree, I think we will beat Peterborough
comfortably and I completelyagree with that.
It shouldn't be any.
It shouldn't go towards Dychelooking any safer than what he
is now if we do, because that iswhat should just happen.
My concern is that you cantrain, you can teach, like fifth

(01:02:27):
or sixth tier players to beorganised and defensively solid
by telling them what to do in adefensive situation.
You can teach solidity inorganisation quite easily.
So that's what Peterborough aregoing to do and we've scored,
as we know, the second fewestgoals in the Premier League.
So I do worry that, you know.
I do worry more around the sortof the fans and what they will

(01:02:53):
do you know, whether justifiedor not, around.
Will it get to like?
Will it get to the 35th, 40thminute, possibly into the second
half, where we haven't scoredor created many chances, and the
fans will start getting on theplayers' back about it?
Yeah, that's quite likely tohappen because I don't think we

(01:03:18):
will be very good at know how tocreate chances against them.
Absolutely we should and wewill create more than we will
against Premier League teams.
But Peterborough will be goingthere knowing that there isn't a
replay if they can hold on for90 minutes and get penalty
shoots out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
So I think we're going to lose.
I think I'm probably on so Ithink we're going to lose.
I think I'm probably onpenalties, but I think we're
going to lose and I'm prettyconfident in this prediction
because this is the biggest gameof those Peter players' lives,
you know.
I mean, they're playing away atPremier League Club.
They are going to be that we'vegot.

(01:03:56):
Psychologically, I thinkEverton are broken and I think
the managers attacking theplayers, the players probably
want the manager gone.
Uh, I don't think there there'sa lot riding on it for them.
I think we're in a real lowpoint.
This is the if you're bluepaper peterborough, it's almost
certainly the biggest gameyou'll ever play in, or one of

(01:04:17):
them.
I mean, you have playoff gamesmaybe, which are more
significant, but playing away inthe fa cup of goodison park
against everton?
they will be up for it.
I don't think we will be, and Idon't think against even a well
organized league one team we'regonna have enough to to break
them down.
And then I think what, adam,you said, exactly what will

(01:04:38):
happen is the atmosphere willget pretty toxic pretty quickly,
and that's really bad.
This has just got Giant Killingwritten all over it.
Oh yeah, we're primed to bethat team in the FA Cup third
round who get taken out by aLeague One team.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
It's exactly what we can do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Think about what?
Because the thing that Evertonteaches you is just when you
think it couldn't get any worse,just when you think you've hit
the bottom, you haven't, and Ithink, we think we've hit the
bottom and we haven't, we will,we will, on that happy note, any
other business yeah, just to goback to where I said, we'd beat

(01:05:19):
Peterborough.
I am.
I think we can do no.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
I'm losing.
My train of thought now is Isaid we beat Peterborough, you
know, 1-0, narrowly, but equallythere is a lot of validity in
Austin's argument about why itcould be a potential giant
killing.
And the one thing I wanted tomention is we played Tamworth I
know it's a few years ago anddifferent players and different

(01:05:51):
management and all that but I'msure we played Tamworth at home
in the FA Cup third round, maybe10, 12 years ago, and I'm sure
we didn't score until the secondhalf or late in the first half,
and that was a fifth-tier sideat home.
So I agree with Austin's pointabout these players coming in.

(01:06:12):
And if there's any Evertonianin the world and I don't think
there are, but it was the viewthat because it's a League One
team, we're going to come in andbe 3-0 up after half an hour.
Now I don't think there's anyEvertonian that believes that.
But that is not how this game isgoing to pan out.
It's going to be.

(01:06:33):
It's going to be a grind of agame against a team that are
19th in League One and that's adamning reflection on where
Everton Football Club are atthis moment in time that we're
looking at this game in thosecircumstances and equally,
peterborough, on the other hand,will be looking and thinking
well, it's a big game for us,away at a Premier League club

(01:06:55):
that are struggling, not scoringmany goals.
They're going to go there withno fear, they can just go and
play, and they've got DarrenFerguson as their manager.
Who's you know?
I think he's.
It's the fourth time he's beentheir manager, so he's been
round the block.
So it's it is.
It is a very big banana skin.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Can I say?
There's one Everton in here who, not two minutes ago, said he
thinks Everton will win 2-3-0quite easily.
No, Andrew said that weobviously have some different
sides and ends of the spectrum,so it would be fascinating to
see.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Absolutely.
And I say different sides ofthe spectrum are good, because
if we all thought the same thing, it would be a very short and
boring podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
By the way, we thought Eddie Howe could be our
next manager, so we're countinghim out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
No, I didn't say could be the next manager.
I just threw the name on ranthe idea up the flagpole.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I can edit this to say whatever you want.
Trust me, when you listen tothis later, you're going to say
later.
I guarantee Eddie Howe is goingto be on X-Mandals.
Good to see you all.
Great to chat.
Everton suck, but this podcastis a joy.
We'll be back, I guess,probably after the weekend maybe
, but we'll see.
Hopefully I'm wrong and we dobeat Peterborough.

(01:08:16):
Follow on Apple Podcasts,subscribe on Spotify wherever
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That's where we are tell yourevidence and supporting mates.
And yeah, stay well everybody.