January 30, 2025 • 47 mins
Everton and David Moyes are back. Back to Back wins in fact, and we break down exactly what's changed, and what Evertonians can expect from the rest of the season.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to episode 82 of the Boys Brothers Everton
podcast.
I think I'm in the world'secho-ist room.
I'll try and uh not have thatthrow anyone off too much.
Uh, everyone's here except dadAdam.
Uh, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm good.
Thank you, yeah, um, I'm uh.
Had a nice, uh nice day at work, been off ill a couple of days
last week, so good to feel, uhfeel better.
I'm good, thanks, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I'm very well, thank you, you Just telling the guys I
bought a house this morning orthis afternoon, so I'm sat in a
very unfurnished room, which iswhy it sounds like a cathedral
or something.
Andy, how's life?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm good.
Thank you.
Yeah, I've been at work forfour days so I'm a little bit
tired, but Adam and I have justbeen out for Thai food in
Mansfield, which was very niceindeed.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Excellent, ben, you're back in DC.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I am back in DC after my Christmas travelling and so
I extended travelling becausepeople got sick and it was all
fine at the end.
But we spent a lot more time inthe UK than we were planning on
.
But we might have got to seemore people in the UK which is
always nice, but, yes than wewere planning on.
But we might have got to seemore people in the UK, which is
always nice, but, yeah, safelyback in very, very cold DC.
(01:30):
It's not quite as cold today,but there was a couple of days
last week when it hit like 11degrees and I don't mean
centigrade, I mean Fahrenheitwhich in real money is like
minus 12, which is absurdly cold.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Fucking freezing.
New York's been the same, butit's sunny and that makes
everything okay.
All right.
So let's talk about everythingand, like you know everything,
things can change quicklybecause here we are.
The last pod we did was just meand Adam talking quickly about
whether Moyes was the right, orwe were sort of arguing Moyes
(02:07):
was the right choice, or youfelt he was the right choice and
we're three games in now andyou know one defeat to Villa and
two wins and suddenlyeverything feels rosy.
Ben, you talked a lot aboutkind of Dyche and Dyche's style
and what you felt were thelimitations of that which I
think you know.
Think a lot of what hashappened since has proven you
right, but what do you think haschanged?
(02:29):
We all see Everton are adifferent team, but what do you
think has changed since Moyestook over?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So I think a couple of things.
One is the tactical setup he'sgone to this sort of it's not
quite three at the back, butit's also quite not four at the
back.
It's sort of O'Brien plays asthis sort of it's not quite
three at the back, but it's alsoquite not four at the back.
It's sort of O'Brien plays asthis sort of tucked in right
fullback and then, you know,lindstrom's playing this sort of
hybrid right winger, right backrole.
So there's been a tacticalshift as well.
(02:57):
And also like bringing inO'Brien and giving Lindstrom
decent game time both of whichare things that Dyche never did
sort of shows why we bought themin the summer.
I know Lindstrom is on loan,but like they have been, o'brien
has been superb and Lindstrom'slooked like a much better
player playing in a system wherehe's actually given the freedom
(03:17):
to attack and go forward andnot just have to worry about
like tracking back 90 yards formost of the game.
So there's definitely been atactical shift in terms of
personnel.
But I think underlyingeverything and Jacob Ryan
basically said this today and wedidn't say it today, he might
have said it a day or so ago,but there was an athletic
article about Everton and thesort of the.
(03:39):
You know how it had been underMoyes.
It was about the Brighton gamereally, and I'm just going to
read this Jake O'Brien quote toyou.
He says we've always had thequality, but it's about being
more consistent.
There's a lot more confidencenow, knowing we're not just
going to sit back, a team thatjust sits back.
We're a team that's going to goand get after games and try and
win.
You've seen in the past fewgames to football and get into
(04:01):
teams and that's what it is.
I've said for a long time thatthe idea that Sean Dyche put out
there that this bunch ofplayers were like the dog and
duck cloggers and all we coulddo, all we had the capability of
doing, was hoofing it long andworking hard and hoping
something worked out.
I've said for a while that thatwas total bollocks and David
(04:22):
Moyes has taken about threegames to prove that it was total
bollocks.
What Sean Dyche meant is Ican't coach these players to do
anything different.
Well, sorry, sean, that's aboutyour coaching ability, not
their footballing ability,because you've seen far more in
terms of patterns of play andpossession and wanting to be on
the ball in the last three gamesthan we've seen in the last 18
(04:44):
months with Dyche possession andwanting to be on the ball in
the last three games than we'veseen the last 18 months with
dice.
So I think there's been atactical change where he's gone.
Hey, we've got these goodplayers that we bought in the
summer for a reason and weshould get them in the team
rather than you know playingmichael keen god love him or you
know who, ashley young gotright back and then there's been
a changing like emphasis andbelief and I think those two
things together it really doesshow we were never really in
(05:06):
danger of going down if we had acompetent manager at the helm,
because we are just better thanat least three of the teams
below us, and I think Moyesproved that in the last couple
of games.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Adam.
What do you think, Adam?
You promised stats, right, yousaid you'd actually done
research for this one, so bringit on.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, I I've not done any sort of you know neda
manuha on the guardian footballweekly level of stuff, um, but
I've, uh, I spent a good aboutthree minutes 50 seconds finding
some stats um, earlier.
So, um, uh, yeah, so on, um, Ithought touches on in the
opposition box is probably agood metric to use to look at
(05:48):
our style of play and what itwas like under Dyche, because
Andrew and I were discussingthis earlier.
You can't create a good numberof touches in the opposition box
without obviously playing a wayof getting it in there.
You can't do it through, youknow, getting free kicks and
(06:13):
trying to get balls in the boxand lots of crosses and stuff
like that.
So I've only managed to findsome data for, like, from August
up until November, but ouraverage number of touches in the
opposition box was 20.
And against Spurs it was 27.
(06:36):
And there was only one time inthat bit of data under dice that
I could find where it washigher than 27.
And you can probably guesswhich game that was.
It was the Bournemouth game.
We objectively played very,very well when it was 35.
(06:56):
So you know, brighton away,obviously that's different.
Brighton are always going tohave the ball.
So it wouldn't be fair tonecessarily use that metric to
judge that.
But in that home game and wehad a good number against Villa
as well, which was slightlyabove that average, so already
(07:17):
you're seeing an improvementthere.
And obviously the O'Brien quoteabout they're going to try and
play a bit more football was wasreally really telling.
So already we're seeing realpositive signs of how Moyes
wants to get us to play more.
And just looking at the Spursgame in particular, one thing I
(07:38):
think is always been Dyche hasalways wanted us to try to play
this high press, high pressingstyle um and winning the ball
back.
It's just that we could neverwe could pretty much never
convert those opportunities intoum creating chances.
And if we did create chances weweren't scoring them, whereas
(08:03):
when we actually did beat apress um, you know spurs's press
, uh for andice and jay's goalagainst spurs, and then
obviously calvert lewins, wherewe won the ball high up um we
converted them into two.
You know good chances and therewas good quality on the ball
there, um.
So I don't.
You've maybe got to caveat thiswith the fact it could be a new
(08:25):
manager bounce, and obviouslythe next month's games will show
us that.
But things have got off to asgood a start as we could
probably hope for, with sixpoints out of nine in the league
.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Andy have've obviously been.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You know, with a sort of main kind of proponent at
Dyche back in the day and wehave a winning joke on here
about we've all fucked that upat this point, but how are you
feeling about, like, how thatended and about how that ends
and the change that we've seento Everton in the last three
games?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Well, the change in the last three games has been
quite profound.
I mean, I think history willjudge Dyche's tenure at Everton
slightly kinder than how we'rejudging it now and what I'm
going to say about it in amoment, because history will
judge that he kept us up indifficult circumstances with
points deductions and all that.
(09:32):
But it's clear that hislimitations of a man as a
manager and I've been brutallyexposed because he pretty much
said to the freaking group andthe new board after the
Bournemouth defeat last monththat he'd taken the players as
far as he thought he could.
A new manager comes in, a newmanager for these players.
(09:57):
Obviously it's more his secondtime at the club and there's an
instant improvement.
So, yeah, dyche just,unfortunately just looks a bit
of an idiot, I think.
Um, and and secondly, of course, it's worth noting just how
much better it is the fact thatwe are on the front foot more,
(10:18):
because I've no doubt at all, ifdie should still be the man
being the manager, he'd havehave happily taken probably 0-0
in all three of these games, andthat was just his approach.
But we went at Tottenham, got3-0 up, got in a winning
position and then I've only seenthe match of the day highlights
(10:39):
of the Brighton game onSaturday.
But I was talking to Dad, whowatched it all and he was saying
it was a very Dyche-likedefensive performance, but the
obviously the one differencebeing we got forward enough and
won a penalty and converted it.
So we turned the one point thatwe possibly would have had
(11:03):
Dyche being the manager intothree because we've been on the
front foot more.
And yet now we might have drawnall three of those games and
got three points, but we've goneforward in all of them, won two
of them and lost one and gotsix points.
And that's better, becauseobviously we've discussed on POS
(11:23):
before if you constantly tryand keep games to nil, you're
going to lose more than you win,because once you concede a goal
, that's it.
You know you're not going tocome back.
And that was the issue withDoush's last game away at
Bournemouth, because we were allwatching that here.
As soon as that Bournemouthgoal went in, you knew what the
result was.
Austin, you could have bet yournew house on the fact that
(11:45):
Bournemouth would win that game1-0, because there was just no
way we were coming back.
And but now, just to be on thefront foot more.
It's almost like we've got ourEverton back, the Everton that
we sort of you know, remember,you know, qualified for Europe
and just gave us so much fun andwon the mythical Everton Cup by
(12:07):
finishing seventh in the leagueevery season.
It's almost like you canalready see elements of that
team and styles of play playingnow.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It's funny you say that Adam and I were talking
about this last week.
Moyes and Everton are like twopeople who were like we're in a
great relationship and broke upfor like a student and neither
it didn't work for either ofthem, but now for the other,
because, I mean, he's been allover the place, basically, and
has sort of become it wasinteresting that the
(12:40):
conversation around him, a lotof people were saying you, you
know, there's this sort ofsentiment.
Some fans are always just like Ithink Adam, you said this.
I just think that's notremotely true if you've watched
him.
But I think that's what.
If you listen to West Ham fansand then you've talked about
your friends who are West Hamfans, they act like he's just
(13:02):
got them playing like a bunch ofcloggers.
I don't want to speak.
I haven't watched West Ham asmuch as those guys have.
But you know, I remember Moyesas our manager and like we
played good attacking football,like he wants to win football
games and you're right, like thejoke was the joke.
The joke about Everton was thatwe finished seventh all the
time.
That's what people took thepiss out of us for.
(13:23):
What would you give to havethat?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
be the joke now?
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, the West Ham thing isweird because I've got some
friends who are West Ham fans.
I love them dearly, but WestHam fans tend to have this
overinflated view of thefootball that they should play
Like.
There's a lot of this talk ofthe West Ham way and all that
sort of stuff.
Moyes won them a trophy, wonthem a European trophy.
(13:51):
They should build him a statue.
As far as I'm concerned, sorunning him out of town because
he played with 40% possessionevery game To then replace him
with Lopetegui, which was aweird choice, but anyway, we are
getting a whole other sideissue.
Yeah, I think Andrew's pointabout like Dyche being Sorry,
(14:13):
what Adam said, about Dychesaying, oh, I've taken these
players as far as I can, it'slike, yes, you've taken the
players as far as they can.
Other managers will get moreout of these players and that
has absolutely proved to be thecase.
I think the one negative pointon the two games, or on the
(14:34):
Brighton game, is that it lookslike we may have lost Calvin
Lewin and Mangala for extendedperiods of time.
I've not seen anything updatedon the injuries yet, but when a
hammer string goes, like Dom'sdid and it's immediately you
know you're going off the field,then that's never a good sign.
That's normally multiple weeks,and then Mangala tried to play
(14:55):
on and then didn't.
Therefore, you're probablylooking at him being out for a
few weeks as well.
So they are two big blowsCalvert-Lewin especially because
I don't think Moyes necessarilyfancies Beto that much and
obviously Brodge is injured.
So we may well find ourselveshaving to go into the transfer
(15:16):
market for a striker in a waythat we might not have done had
Calvert-Lewin not had thatinjury.
But yeah, overall good.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And that transfer point is tricky.
What I want to sort of move onto we've got an idea of targets,
but do you see us being able tolike?
Getting a new striker is hardand getting a new striker that's
better than Beto.
I like Beto.
I think he's a relativelylimited footballer but actually
I think quite a good instinctivefinisher.
(15:48):
Now that's a very different.
He's almost the inverse ofCalvert-Lewin.
In that sense I like him.
I think he's.
I always wonder how good oursecond choice striker can
possibly be, because who's goingto sit on the bench at Everton?
But do you think there's anyhope we actually do something
there that makes a differenceversus doing what historically
(16:08):
we will have done, which is webring in someone who's also
another second grade striker.
So we have two second gradestrikers and you can't add them
up yeah, yeah, I think it'sinteresting.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
The thing I would highlight that's interesting
about this is the story that'scome out about Brozier, about
about him.
Basically, the talk is he'sgoing to stay at Everton to do
his rehabilitation.
Now, part of that could be wecouldn't agree with Chelsea the
finances of sending him back,which is a whole different
question about the deal that wesigned.
But Moyes has always been keenon Brozier.
(16:40):
He tried to sign him a coupleof times previously and now.
So obviously it doesn't help usright now because he's injured.
But thinking longer term, youdon't know what Calvert-Lewin's
going to do.
I think it's pretty clear thathe doesn't fancy Beto.
You wonder whether keepingBrozier around is a plan for the
future.
We're not going to pay the £30million or whatever the
(17:02):
agreement is with Chelsea on thebasis of this season because
he's not done anything.
He's been injured for most ofthe year.
But you could see a world wherethat gets negotiated down come
the end of the season.
I think the question you've gotto ask yourselves is what's the
sensible thing to do right nowthat keeps us in the Premier
League, because what you don'twant to do is panic in the
(17:27):
january and buy a, you know,like we did with under allardyce
, where you bought sort of theowalcott and shank toson for a
combined 40 million poundsbecause you know we needed
players in when actually youdidn't really need them to stay
up.
You were probably going to stayup anyway.
So, like, what's the I wouldonly?
(17:47):
I would only go out and buy astriker if you think it actually
improves the team beyond thenext six months.
I wouldn't go out and buy astriker because we need a
striker right now.
I'd much rather, if you were ina position, I'd much rather say
okay, if we can't get a strikerwe need right now, I'd rather
get a like a winger that willhelp us longer term, because
then can you do some somethingwhere you're pushing jai into
(18:10):
the middle if you really need toand like and do something a bit
more creative there, whichwe've seen.
Obviously we've seen molly's doin the past with it's not quite
the same, but when he had toplay k or filet he's a striker
like.
I'd much rather look at longterm.
What do we than?
Oh, we need a striker right nowbecause Calvert-Williams got
injured and Brozier's injured,so let's go sign a striker.
I just think that is theshort-termism and we can get on
(18:34):
to where we think this plays outin the league.
But you look at the maths ofthis, right and I did this the
other day If you take the pointsper game that basically
Leicester, Wolves, ipswich havegot over the course of the
season, it's about 0.7, right,it's about 0.7 points per game.
(18:56):
You take that over the full38-game season, assuming they
don't get any enormously better,they get to about 27, 28 points
, right?
So how many points do werealistically need?
Now, I'm not pretending thatthey won't get better, because
you know relegation does funnythings to teams at the end.
But like, even in a world wherethey double their points per
(19:19):
game, they still only get tolike mid 30s.
So, like, how many points do werealistically need to avoid
relegation?
And therefore, what's the costbenefit of investing a huge
amount of money on a strikerwhen you're probably going to
get, like, what we need?
10 points.
11 points probably will keep usup.
We're going to pick up 10 11points in the remainder of the
games with, without signinganybody.
(19:41):
I'm not saying we should dothat, but that's the calculation
you've got to make.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
It's interesting that because I wonder you know the
deadline is Sunday, which is thesecond right, 11pm, whatever.
Obviously we play Leicester onSaturday and we'll talk about
that game in a bit more detail.
But you wonder, if you wererunning Everton you might look
at that game and go but who winthat game?
And we've got points, then Ithink then you're like well, I
(20:10):
mean you, you betterparticularly bear in mind you're
beating Leicester.
You're like well, that's a bigdeal, because you say if you get
eight more points between then,the end of the season, you're
almost certainly safe.
So you might make that judgmentyeah, um hello again.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So we didn't we didn't mention that you, we
never mentioned that you guysyour connection dropped out.
We were just seamlessly we wereprofessional about it.
We lost Adam and Andrew forabout two minutes there, which
is why you just exclusivelyheard from me.
Ben and I carried it very wellactually, yeah, we did, and for
those of you you can't see thisbecause this isn't a video
format but Adam and Andrew havemoved rooms from the study into
(20:47):
Adam's bedroom, so I was likequite lovingly lying next to
each other on Adam's bed.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
They're kind of like Morecambe and Wise for those of
you who are watching.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
One for the kids there.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Or that scene from Charlie and the Chocolate
Factory, when all thegrandparents are in bed.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
This is also my old bedroom as well.
There you go, exactly so nicesymmetry to it all.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Anyway, transfers.
Someone talk about transfers.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I agree with what you said, ben.
I think if you look at thenumber of points, even in the
best that Ipswich or Wolves orLeicester can hope for, which is
like 36 points, they've got tomore than double their tally
(21:43):
between now with 15 games.
They've got 15 games remaining.
We've got 16, caveat the factthat it's the derby We've got to
like.
Are we saying that we're notgoing to get 15 points from our
remaining 16 matches?
It's just not going to happen.
We're going to do that becausewe're going to do better than we
(22:04):
are we have done.
All we need to do is just dojust as slightly less, slightly
worse than what our currentpoints per game total shows.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, the funny thing is, if we got a point per game
between now and the end of theseason, we'd end up on 39 points
, right, I think.
So you know you, which is dicewould get you a point per game.
So moise could have come in,won these two fucked off.
We bring sean dice, you know,like that, you're right, like we
(22:42):
.
Just that that's where I sawsix or seven point difference.
You're still hitting guys, notthat that much, but actually it
is because people are not goingto randomly double.
The conversation we were havingbefore about AI stuff, before
we started recording the idea ateam just doubles their average
points per game.
It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Name me some strikers that have worked out in January
.
I'd be struggling to name fiveto ten.
I can name one for Everton,which is Nikicilla Jelovic.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I was going to say Jelovic as well.
I was going to say Jelovic aswell.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Andy, you might remember this better than I did.
We signed Kevin Campbell inJanuary as well.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I think I'm on loan.
I think we signed Campbellbefore.
What a leper, and also.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I think we signed Campbell before the days where
transfer windows existed, so itwasn't quite the same.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But it was like mid-season now.
But I agree with you, I don'tthink there's been many and we
all know you overpay and we'vegot FFP stuff.
So you know, I would ratherthey had kind of eyes on a prize
.
We signed Kevin Campbell in.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
March, March of 1999.
So he came in really late inthe season and saved us.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think it was like six games.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He scored nine goals in like six games, or 11 in nine
or something.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Nine in eight, as the man who was looking at his
Wikipedia page.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I remember that, those games so well, those goals
he scored.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
So sorry this is.
I'm just I'm diving into aKevin Campbell rabbit hole.
Now we signed bear in mind, wesigned him in March.
By the end of the season he wasour top goal scorer, both at
home and away.
We signed him in.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
March, we were shit, do we?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
were shit.
Do you remember the old jokelike people were going around
the houses around Gladys Streetand Bullens Road like asking for
, asking for change, so theycould like give it to the club
so we could buy him permanently?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
yeah, six goals in his first three games.
He won player of the monthaward in April.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah, he was an amazing player for us.
May he rest in peace legend.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I, I think, signing wise.
I agree with Ben steer clear ofa striker, because Beto is our
worst in inverted commas, strikeout the three that we have, but
currently he's our only fit one.
And obviously the news is aboutCalvert-Lewin will come out in
(25:11):
the next few days, I'm sure, butI'd be looking at a left-back
because I do like Michael Lenko,but I think he is definitely
the sort of area that we need tolook at and there's someone
more attacking, and I don'tnecessarily say that Michael
Lanko needs to play second place, but I think there's a space
(25:36):
for him as being one of ouroptions at centre-back, actually
as the left-sided centre-back,and put Brandt way in the middle
of a back three.
I think there's an option there, but I'd be looking at that, or
someone if he does want to playwingbacks.
I think we've played.
(25:57):
Obviously we played the 3-5-2 orwhatever formation you want to
call it, with back three againstSpurs, but in the other two
games we played four at the back, so it remains to be seen what
sort of formation will be hispreference, but I think we
should be looking at, especiallywith McNeil being out for some
(26:22):
time.
I think we do need morecreativity around attack
midfield area, whether that's a,and I would be looking at why a
wide, a more wide player,because and jides, because he's,
uh, you know, so agile, soskillful, both footed.
I think he is good on the left,but I think he is 70, 80 of the
(26:45):
player that he can be on theleft than it is um more
centrally, um, so I'd be lookingat someone, um someone out wide
, um, uh, either um wide left orwide right for me andy, what
are your thoughts on, like thetransfer window a few days left?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
what are the priorities?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
yeah, this is a really interesting discussion
because I thought that, in orderto capitalise on the fact we're
being on the front foot, morethat getting somebody to stick
the ball in the net would be apriority.
But listening to Ben speakabout the number of points
Everton actually need to stay inthe division has changed my
(27:28):
mind around that, because Ihaven't thought of it in quite
those circumstances, when wejust have discussed this before,
I've said left-back andleft-side of the team every
single time, because I've got,you know, mikalenko, he's, if
you think of you think of theperson in that position was Luka
(27:50):
Dean prior to him.
They're light years away interms of ability and level of
play in my opinion.
So I've always felt he's alittle bit of he tries hard.
I've always felt he's a littlebit of a weak link defensively.
So at the very least, we wantanother player, at least a
(28:10):
challenge, for that position,and I agree with what Adam just
said about more attacking playin the wide areas as well.
But again, ben's absolutelyright If we beat Leicester, get
up to 26 points, there's everychance the club might look
around and go well, yeah, weonly need 10 more points.
(28:32):
This squad can get 10 morepoints.
We'll keep our powder dry, um,not risk any.
You know PSR issues and also aswell, of course.
I believe 10 or 11 players areout of contract at the end of
the season, yeah, so so there'sthat aspect to it as well.
They can have a good look roundand look at who they might want
to offer contracts to or whothey might want to let go.
(28:55):
I want to talk about thatcontract thing.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I'm going to read you the list of people who are out
of contract.
Yeah, so, calvert-lewin, decore, keane Garnagay, ashley Young,
seamus Coleman, joe Virginia,asma Begovic, and then obviously
we've got Brozier and Harrisonas domestic loans that will go
back, which I have.
(29:20):
That's 10, and maybe I'mmissing something.
And then well, you've gotMangala and Lindstrom as well,
who are foreign loans thank youso much so of those players, and
particularly the ones that aresort of the permanent players,
if you like, who are out ofcontract, who are our priorities
to re-sign, because it's a hellof a thing.
We have a relatively smallsquad.
I think our first team squad is23 or 24 players and we've just
(29:42):
listed 14 of them who, bydefault, are leaving, so there's
going to be no one.
We literally won't be able tofield a team mathematically, so
presumably some of these playersare going to be kept on.
Any strong views on who shouldbe retained from that group?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I think.
So putting aside the loan.
Well, let me cover loan playersquickly.
I think you find a way to keepMangala.
I think you find a way to keepLindstrom if the price is right,
because I think they'd be good.
Harrison think you find a wayto keep Mangala.
I think you find a way to keepLindstrom if the price is right,
because I think they've beengood.
Harrison, yeah, could take orleave Brogier, depending on what
you think about his fitness.
I think the priorities of theother ones are Calvert-Lewin,
(30:17):
but reasons we've all discussed,I think, for all of his injury
problems and whatever.
Getting buying strikers is hard.
The other one, the second one Iwould actually put on that list
, is Garner Gay, because I thinkhe's so crucial to how we play
and he's still.
He was our man of the matchagainst Brighton and does so
much of the yards in themidfield and the dirty work.
I would sign Decore and Keaneif the deal was right.
(30:43):
I think Decore still gives yousome legs in midfield.
I think he's still pretty pooron the ball.
Keane is a fine fourth, fifthcentre-back, like, so keep him
around if the deal, if thedeal's cheap, I think you let
Ashley Young go because I thinkhe's.
I think he's done.
I mean, maybe keep Colemanbecause of the sentimentality
more than anything else he's.
(31:03):
You know good to have in the inthe dressing room and you know
a competent third choice rightback and play.
You know good to have in the inthe dressing room and you know
a competent third choice rightback and play.
You know center back in a threeand a pinch.
And then Virginia because youneed a spare goalkeeper.
So I would definitely be okaywith, like I think I feel if
they all went I'd feel we werein a big problem.
I think it'd be fine with oneof the goalkeepers and Ashley
(31:24):
Young leaving.
I'd be fine if Coleman retired.
I'd be fine if Coleman retired.
I'd be fine if Keane left.
I'd be kind of fine if Decoreleft.
I think Gay and Calvert-Lewinand then Mangala Lindstrom are
the four that I would reallyfocus on.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Andy Adam thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I think I disagree with Ben slightly around Decore,
because I think the wages havegot to be taken into account,
because two of those three,three of the top earners of our
club, two of whom are out ofcontract, which is Gay and
Decoray so yeah, it depends whatsource you want to look at, but
(32:05):
you know Decoray is on anythingup to about 130,000 a week.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah, as a caveat.
Obviously, like reasonable deal, I'm not re-signing about 130
grand.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
No, I'm not suggesting that's what you're
saying.
What I'm saying is that even ifhe takes half that salary,
that's still you know that'sstill looking at like three
million a year for a player whois objectively been pretty
rubbish and is not going to get.
I don't think it's going to getmuch better.
I think Gay is far morevaluable to Moyes' system and
(32:42):
the sort of system that Moyeswould want to play.
So I personally wouldn't beretiring Decore.
I think he's been really goodfor us since he joined in 2017.
Yeah, 2017, I think it was no2019 when Ancelotti came in, so
I'd be looking.
And then I think, if the priceis right for Lindstrom, I agree,
(33:07):
I think Mangala's a really tidyplayer.
I think he's good if you canget him on a good deal.
I think I've got a few friendsat work who are Forest fans and
they said, you know, last seasonhe was one player who really
had some composure on the balland made them, you know, really
got the sort of football insideof their, of how their manager
(33:30):
wanted them to play going, andwe've seen that themselves.
He's a really tidy, composedplayer, even when even in a dice
system he sort of stood out inthat regard.
So I'd be looking at him as apriority, I think Calvert-Lewin
obviously the injury maybechanges things, but it's all
(33:52):
against Spurs.
He looked much more like theplayer that we saw towards the
end of Dyche's first season inthat January to May time when we
just stayed up.
He was integral to the way thatwe played and obviously if we
(34:17):
can get him scoring again likewe did under Ancelotti, then
he'll be huge.
But I think it's safe to saythat he doesn't want to sign a
new contract.
So I think we can unfortunatelysay, you know, wave him goodbye
.
Safe to say that he doesn'twant to um, that he doesn't want
to sign a new contract.
So I think we can unfortunatelysay, um, you know, wave him,
goodbye.
Um, I think the number ofplayers like going out like that
(34:38):
obviously leaves our, leave oursquad really thin.
So, and with that it's not somuch the fact that you have to,
you have to, uh, those, thoseplayers go out, but obviously
those players therefore need,you know, replacing um, and
that's an enormous number of newplayers to integrate into a,
into a team, and that neverreally works like having such
(35:00):
high turnover of players.
Never works like that.
The best teams are always theones that add one or two players
, like every summer, and build ateam slowly.
So, um the too long didn't bepart of my answer.
Is uh no to the core.
A get virginia in.
Keep michael keen, uh lindstromif he's, if he's uh on the
right, right money, butdefinitely he'll be looking at
(35:22):
um mangala, as would be my uhwould be my priority.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Andy, what are your thoughts on that?
I'm interested in what youthink about whether you want
generally to keep most of thoseplayers or whether you fancy a
clear out.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I broadly agree with the sentiments that have just
been expressed by Ben and Adamin terms of who to keep and who
to let go.
Ashley Young it's his one songseason.
He's right at the end of hiscareer, obviously.
He's arguably been our bestplayer in certain games this
season, which is a testament tojust how badly some of the other
(36:03):
players have performed invarious matches.
Again, I'd like to seeCalvert-Lewin stay.
I've been quite critical of himat times this season, but again
already under Moyes in the threegames, he looks like a little
bit like already theCalvert-Lewin that was playing
under Ancelotti, where he wasjust getting more opportunities
(36:27):
and more chances.
He still misses some chances,but he's just getting more
opportunities because we're inthe opposition box more.
I mean, he seems to think he'sgoing to be playing for a more
high-profile club than Evertonthat's higher up the division.
I'm not so sure if that's goingto be the case.
(36:49):
I think he might have ideasabove his station and he's being
told things by his agent orhangers-on or whoever.
It might be that he's betterthan he actually is.
So if no offers are forthcoming, then will he sign a new
contract in Everton?
(37:09):
I think there's every chancethat he might do Equally.
Of course he will end up goingsomewhere else and we don't get
anything for him.
We'll have to wait and see.
But no, I'd be happy keepingMichael Keane.
He's perfectly decent cover forcentre-back.
I'd like to see DCL stay, butwe'll have to see if he does or
(37:32):
not.
I'd be happy to see Begovic go.
The few games I've seen JanVirginia play over the years, I
think he's played the odd cupgame.
Here and there he's actuallylooked quite decent.
So again, for a number twogoalkeeper he's been perfectly
adequate.
So yeah, I would agree with thesentiments already expressed
(37:55):
about who to keep and who to letgo.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
It's a hell of a job, isn't it?
Especially when, of course, theother person who's got his
contract at the end of thesummer is Kevin Thelwell, who's
responsible for all of this.
So there's a sort of cliff edgethere all around, which I hope
some sensible people at the clubare thinking about.
All right, we've got a fewminutes left.
Let's talk about the Leicestergame Funny one.
(38:18):
This because I think Begovic.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Sorry, I think Begovic should stay, purely for
the fact that I completelyforgot that he was even our
player, until I see him be ashithouse at the weekend at the
end of that melee.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Speaking of which, can I just bring something up
before we move on to the rest ofthe game?
I don't know what you're goingto say.
Hasn't you ever known anyone tobe given a yellow card for
impersonating a seagull before?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I was going to ask you, ben, which rule does that?
Which paragraph 47c do not.
You cannot impersonate birds onthe field.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I, I sort of I was watching this game live and I
saw that he scored and I saw thecelebration.
It was all very funny.
And then I saw that he got ayellow card and I was like I was
trying to track it, like.
I then watched it back and Isaw if he did anything else.
I watched another replay fromanother angle and I watched the
highlights and I was like no, no, he was given a yellow card
because he was deemed to bewinding up the opposition fans
(39:20):
by doing this.
He was allowed to wind up theopposition fans.
Sorry, we don't give you yellowcards for hurt feelings anymore
.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
RAOUL PAL.
Also the rules.
The rules are thereforecontextual, it's like.
It's like if I do a seagullimpression at any other ground,
that's not a yellow card.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
And also it doesn't make any sense, because a
seagull's a really easy thing toimpersonate, right?
How do you fucking impersonatea toffee?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That is a yellow card that we can't have at all.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
We can't have that awarded against us.
It's impossible.
If I'm at Newcastle and I takemy shirt off and reveal a pair
of giant mantids, am I takingthe piss?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
But I have to say I mean, the referee was total
bobbins on.
I can't remember who it was.
Was it Tim Robinson?
He was bobbins.
And he's always Bobbinswhenever I've watched him, so it
doesn't surprise me at all thathe decided that impersonating a
seagull was a bookable offenceand it took him forever as well
(40:22):
to give that penalty.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
And I was listening to that bit, I was driving and
Graham Stewart and what's hisname?
I always forget his name IanSnowden.
No, the guy who's the Everton'smedia guy.
They were incredulous.
They were like because it was afunny one and you could see why
(40:44):
he said it, because only Betoreally claims for it.
No one else does anything.
And then they see the replayand they were like it's a
penalty, it's got to be apenalty.
And it was so funny because itwas five minutes of graham
stewart going.
It's got to be a penalty, it'sgot to be.
It took that long for them togo.
Well, he's clearly handled it.
He clearly moved his arm likeit took.
(41:05):
You know, I was timing it.
In the end it was five and ahalf minutes to make that
decision I mean that I didn'tknow it was that long.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
That's genuinely extraordinary, because I was at
work on Saturday so I'd listenedon Radio 5 and they cut to that
game when that incidenthappened and the consensus on
Radio 5 was the penalty decisionwas a bit contentious and
(41:31):
Everton were a little bitfortunate to get it.
And then when I saw it later Ithought, well, what on earth is
the debate about If you don'tgive a penalty for that?
He hit the ball with his arm.
Yeah, it's obviously a penalty.
It can't be anything else.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, you know there's no way and it's like
again.
I understand why the refereecouldn't see it because it's in
front.
You know there's players in it,but the amount of time it took
VAR to give that, and then he'slooking at all these different
replays, it was really a weirdone.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
It wasn't the worst of the referee in Dijon of the
weekend, of course.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
That.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Arsenal left back, getting sent off for what was
basically a trip.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
I haven't seen yet.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be therefereeing fraternity here and
say it's not just a trip, he, ifhe rakes, he rakes.
He rakes his studs down hisshin.
And he's doing it with no, hedoes, he does.
If you watch the replay, herakes his studs down his shin.
Watch the replay he rakes hisstuds down his shin.
That's why Michael Oliver gavea red card and the fact that
he's doing it with no intentionto play the ball at all.
(42:37):
I can understand why a red cardwas given.
I don't think it's a red card,but I can absolutely in law
justify a red card in thatscenario.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Do you think that'll get overturned?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
No, I don't think that'll get overturned.
No, I shouldn't say that itmight get overturned, it might
not.
I can absolutely see whyMichael Oliver saw what he saw
gave a red card.
I can also understand why VARdidn't go.
I think he made a mistake here,because it's not just a trip.
Henry Winter said this Likeevery trip is now a red card,
it's bollocks.
It's not a trip.
Look at where the contact is.
(43:05):
Look at where the angle of hisbad challenge that he does.
He's trying to trip him.
He's trying to clip his anklesand take him down and get a
yellow card and that's fine.
He does it badly.
He catches him with his studsand he breaks down and it's like
it's not a good tackle nahdisagree, sorry okay you're
allowed, you're allowed to.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I do agree.
It's like I do agree, like,agree, like it's intentional.
It's one of those that I'vesaid for years like there needs
to be a, a yellow card.
A yellow card doesn't sufficebecause he does it because with
the intention of thinking thathe's going to get a yellow card,
which is you know, it nullifiesthe entire point of having a
yellow card If the punishment isworth the it's on the long
(44:04):
spurs left wing and the glisserguy was on the floor and he just
wrapped his arms around his.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
I'm not sure how.
I'm not sure how much you werepaying attention, but Bergwijn
hasn't played for Spurs in about18 months.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, I didn't think I'd be right.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I thought you said Bergwijn I was going to let it
slide, it was Mickey Moore andit was Harry Wink that was very
kind of you.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
As we all know, ben hasn't let anything slide since
1992.
So it was never going to happen.
But it was never going tohappen there, but it was.
It was like it was one of thoselike he gave a yellow card, but
it was like such a ludicrousfoul that it should have been
more than that.
It shouldn't be a red card youcan get sent off for it, but it
should be like a what you'retaking the piss there.
Mate additional, you know,grabbed him it really should be.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
That.
That's for me.
That's what Lewis Skelly shouldhave like yeah, there needs to
be a punishment, please, thereis.
No, there wasn't a rightpunishment, so it's one of those
.
It's almost like yeah, I justdon't.
I just think the bar for thatmeeting, a red card wasn't met.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
All right, so we've got like three minutes but we
need to wrap up.
We're going to do predictionsfor the Leicester game quickly.
We've won this because you knowwe've won a couple of games.
Leicester are crap, but wethink, you know, they've just
beat Spurs.
We know Spurs are crap.
We played them.
It's a strange one to read, ben.
What do you think?
Prediction for theEverton-Leicester on Saturday?
I think we'll win.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I think we'll win 2-0 .
Because, yes, leicester beatSpurs, but Spurs are rubbish.
They're on a terrible run ofform.
They can't defend.
Leicester were no great shakesin that game at all.
They were dodgy at the back,they were dodgy from the set
pieces.
They've been terrible allseason.
Obviously, they get a bit ofconfidence from getting the win,
but I still think we are abetter team and have better
(45:53):
players and have a bettermanager.
So I think, yeah, 2-0, 2-0Everton.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Andy, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (46:04):
I think the Leicester beating Spurs result was a bit
of a blip for them.
I think a much more accuratedemonstration of where they are
in the Premier League is thefact they lost six games on the
bounce prior to that get theSpurs game.
I don't think Van Nistelrooy isa good managerial appointment,
Contrast that with the upturn inform Everton have had since
(46:25):
Moyes has been appointed.
I am going to be superoptimistic and I think we're
going to win 3-0.
Incredible.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Literally as in I'm incredulous, adam thoughts.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
I agree with Andrew.
I think we're quite asoptimistic as a 3-0 victory, but
I think it'll be comfortablefor us In general.
I think we'll do.
We will provide some scaresbecause it's Everton, but I
think we'll do.
We will provide some scaresbecause it's Everton, but I
think we'll win.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I think we'll win 2-0 alright, I think we'll win 2-1,
because I think there'll besome scares.
It's not going to becomfortable, but I think we'll
do it.
Alright, we're going to wrap itup.
Good to see you all.
Thanks for listening.
Follow us on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcasts.
That's where we are and we'llsee you next time.
Come on, you Blues.
Welcome to episode 82 of the Boys Brothers Everton
podcast.
I think I'm in the world'secho-ist room.
I'll try and uh not have thatthrow anyone off too much.
Uh, everyone's here except dadAdam.
Uh, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm good.
Thank you, yeah, um, I'm uh.
Had a nice, uh nice day at work, been off ill a couple of days
last week, so good to feel, uhfeel better.
I'm good, thanks, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I'm very well, thank you, you Just telling the guys I
bought a house this morning orthis afternoon, so I'm sat in a
very unfurnished room, which iswhy it sounds like a cathedral
or something.
Andy, how's life?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm good.
Thank you.
Yeah, I've been at work forfour days so I'm a little bit
tired, but Adam and I have justbeen out for Thai food in
Mansfield, which was very niceindeed.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Excellent, ben, you're back in DC.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I am back in DC after my Christmas travelling and so
I extended travelling becausepeople got sick and it was all
fine at the end.
But we spent a lot more time inthe UK than we were planning on
.
But we might have got to seemore people in the UK which is
always nice, but, yes than wewere planning on.
But we might have got to seemore people in the UK, which is
always nice, but, yeah, safelyback in very, very cold DC.
(01:30):
It's not quite as cold today,but there was a couple of days
last week when it hit like 11degrees and I don't mean
centigrade, I mean Fahrenheitwhich in real money is like
minus 12, which is absurdly cold.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Fucking freezing.
New York's been the same, butit's sunny and that makes
everything okay.
All right.
So let's talk about everythingand, like you know everything,
things can change quicklybecause here we are.
The last pod we did was just meand Adam talking quickly about
whether Moyes was the right, orwe were sort of arguing Moyes
(02:07):
was the right choice, or youfelt he was the right choice and
we're three games in now andyou know one defeat to Villa and
two wins and suddenlyeverything feels rosy.
Ben, you talked a lot aboutkind of Dyche and Dyche's style
and what you felt were thelimitations of that which I
think you know.
Think a lot of what hashappened since has proven you
right, but what do you think haschanged?
(02:29):
We all see Everton are adifferent team, but what do you
think has changed since Moyestook over?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So I think a couple of things.
One is the tactical setup he'sgone to this sort of it's not
quite three at the back, butit's also quite not four at the
back.
It's sort of O'Brien plays asthis sort of it's not quite
three at the back, but it's alsoquite not four at the back.
It's sort of O'Brien plays asthis sort of tucked in right
fullback and then, you know,lindstrom's playing this sort of
hybrid right winger, right backrole.
So there's been a tacticalshift as well.
(02:57):
And also like bringing inO'Brien and giving Lindstrom
decent game time both of whichare things that Dyche never did
sort of shows why we bought themin the summer.
I know Lindstrom is on loan,but like they have been, o'brien
has been superb and Lindstrom'slooked like a much better
player playing in a system wherehe's actually given the freedom
(03:17):
to attack and go forward andnot just have to worry about
like tracking back 90 yards formost of the game.
So there's definitely been atactical shift in terms of
personnel.
But I think underlyingeverything and Jacob Ryan
basically said this today and wedidn't say it today, he might
have said it a day or so ago,but there was an athletic
article about Everton and thesort of the.
(03:39):
You know how it had been underMoyes.
It was about the Brighton gamereally, and I'm just going to
read this Jake O'Brien quote toyou.
He says we've always had thequality, but it's about being
more consistent.
There's a lot more confidencenow, knowing we're not just
going to sit back, a team thatjust sits back.
We're a team that's going to goand get after games and try and
win.
You've seen in the past fewgames to football and get into
(04:01):
teams and that's what it is.
I've said for a long time thatthe idea that Sean Dyche put out
there that this bunch ofplayers were like the dog and
duck cloggers and all we coulddo, all we had the capability of
doing, was hoofing it long andworking hard and hoping
something worked out.
I've said for a while that thatwas total bollocks and David
(04:22):
Moyes has taken about threegames to prove that it was total
bollocks.
What Sean Dyche meant is Ican't coach these players to do
anything different.
Well, sorry, sean, that's aboutyour coaching ability, not
their footballing ability,because you've seen far more in
terms of patterns of play andpossession and wanting to be on
the ball in the last three gamesthan we've seen in the last 18
(04:44):
months with Dyche possession andwanting to be on the ball in
the last three games than we'veseen the last 18 months with
dice.
So I think there's been atactical change where he's gone.
Hey, we've got these goodplayers that we bought in the
summer for a reason and weshould get them in the team
rather than you know playingmichael keen god love him or you
know who, ashley young gotright back and then there's been
a changing like emphasis andbelief and I think those two
things together it really doesshow we were never really in
(05:06):
danger of going down if we had acompetent manager at the helm,
because we are just better thanat least three of the teams
below us, and I think Moyesproved that in the last couple
of games.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Adam.
What do you think, Adam?
You promised stats, right, yousaid you'd actually done
research for this one, so bringit on.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, I I've not done any sort of you know neda
manuha on the guardian footballweekly level of stuff, um, but
I've, uh, I spent a good aboutthree minutes 50 seconds finding
some stats um, earlier.
So, um, uh, yeah, so on, um, Ithought touches on in the
opposition box is probably agood metric to use to look at
(05:48):
our style of play and what itwas like under Dyche, because
Andrew and I were discussingthis earlier.
You can't create a good numberof touches in the opposition box
without obviously playing a wayof getting it in there.
You can't do it through, youknow, getting free kicks and
(06:13):
trying to get balls in the boxand lots of crosses and stuff
like that.
So I've only managed to findsome data for, like, from August
up until November, but ouraverage number of touches in the
opposition box was 20.
And against Spurs it was 27.
(06:36):
And there was only one time inthat bit of data under dice that
I could find where it washigher than 27.
And you can probably guesswhich game that was.
It was the Bournemouth game.
We objectively played very,very well when it was 35.
(06:56):
So you know, brighton away,obviously that's different.
Brighton are always going tohave the ball.
So it wouldn't be fair tonecessarily use that metric to
judge that.
But in that home game and wehad a good number against Villa
as well, which was slightlyabove that average, so already
(07:17):
you're seeing an improvementthere.
And obviously the O'Brien quoteabout they're going to try and
play a bit more football was wasreally really telling.
So already we're seeing realpositive signs of how Moyes
wants to get us to play more.
And just looking at the Spursgame in particular, one thing I
(07:38):
think is always been Dyche hasalways wanted us to try to play
this high press, high pressingstyle um and winning the ball
back.
It's just that we could neverwe could pretty much never
convert those opportunities intoum creating chances.
And if we did create chances weweren't scoring them, whereas
(08:03):
when we actually did beat apress um, you know spurs's press
, uh for andice and jay's goalagainst spurs, and then
obviously calvert lewins, wherewe won the ball high up um we
converted them into two.
You know good chances and therewas good quality on the ball
there, um.
So I don't.
You've maybe got to caveat thiswith the fact it could be a new
(08:25):
manager bounce, and obviouslythe next month's games will show
us that.
But things have got off to asgood a start as we could
probably hope for, with sixpoints out of nine in the league
.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Andy have've obviously been.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You know, with a sort of main kind of proponent at
Dyche back in the day and wehave a winning joke on here
about we've all fucked that upat this point, but how are you
feeling about, like, how thatended and about how that ends
and the change that we've seento Everton in the last three
games?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Well, the change in the last three games has been
quite profound.
I mean, I think history willjudge Dyche's tenure at Everton
slightly kinder than how we'rejudging it now and what I'm
going to say about it in amoment, because history will
judge that he kept us up indifficult circumstances with
points deductions and all that.
(09:32):
But it's clear that hislimitations of a man as a
manager and I've been brutallyexposed because he pretty much
said to the freaking group andthe new board after the
Bournemouth defeat last monththat he'd taken the players as
far as he thought he could.
A new manager comes in, a newmanager for these players.
(09:57):
Obviously it's more his secondtime at the club and there's an
instant improvement.
So, yeah, dyche just,unfortunately just looks a bit
of an idiot, I think.
Um, and and secondly, of course, it's worth noting just how
much better it is the fact thatwe are on the front foot more,
(10:18):
because I've no doubt at all, ifdie should still be the man
being the manager, he'd havehave happily taken probably 0-0
in all three of these games, andthat was just his approach.
But we went at Tottenham, got3-0 up, got in a winning
position and then I've only seenthe match of the day highlights
(10:39):
of the Brighton game onSaturday.
But I was talking to Dad, whowatched it all and he was saying
it was a very Dyche-likedefensive performance, but the
obviously the one differencebeing we got forward enough and
won a penalty and converted it.
So we turned the one point thatwe possibly would have had
(11:03):
Dyche being the manager intothree because we've been on the
front foot more.
And yet now we might have drawnall three of those games and
got three points, but we've goneforward in all of them, won two
of them and lost one and gotsix points.
And that's better, becauseobviously we've discussed on POS
(11:23):
before if you constantly tryand keep games to nil, you're
going to lose more than you win,because once you concede a goal
, that's it.
You know you're not going tocome back.
And that was the issue withDoush's last game away at
Bournemouth, because we were allwatching that here.
As soon as that Bournemouthgoal went in, you knew what the
result was.
Austin, you could have bet yournew house on the fact that
(11:45):
Bournemouth would win that game1-0, because there was just no
way we were coming back.
And but now, just to be on thefront foot more.
It's almost like we've got ourEverton back, the Everton that
we sort of you know, remember,you know, qualified for Europe
and just gave us so much fun andwon the mythical Everton Cup by
(12:07):
finishing seventh in the leagueevery season.
It's almost like you canalready see elements of that
team and styles of play playingnow.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It's funny you say that Adam and I were talking
about this last week.
Moyes and Everton are like twopeople who were like we're in a
great relationship and broke upfor like a student and neither
it didn't work for either ofthem, but now for the other,
because, I mean, he's been allover the place, basically, and
has sort of become it wasinteresting that the
(12:40):
conversation around him, a lotof people were saying you, you
know, there's this sort ofsentiment.
Some fans are always just like Ithink Adam, you said this.
I just think that's notremotely true if you've watched
him.
But I think that's what.
If you listen to West Ham fansand then you've talked about
your friends who are West Hamfans, they act like he's just
(13:02):
got them playing like a bunch ofcloggers.
I don't want to speak.
I haven't watched West Ham asmuch as those guys have.
But you know, I remember Moyesas our manager and like we
played good attacking football,like he wants to win football
games and you're right, like thejoke was the joke.
The joke about Everton was thatwe finished seventh all the
time.
That's what people took thepiss out of us for.
(13:23):
What would you give to havethat?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
be the joke now?
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, the West Ham thing isweird because I've got some
friends who are West Ham fans.
I love them dearly, but WestHam fans tend to have this
overinflated view of thefootball that they should play
Like.
There's a lot of this talk ofthe West Ham way and all that
sort of stuff.
Moyes won them a trophy, wonthem a European trophy.
(13:51):
They should build him a statue.
As far as I'm concerned, sorunning him out of town because
he played with 40% possessionevery game To then replace him
with Lopetegui, which was aweird choice, but anyway, we are
getting a whole other sideissue.
Yeah, I think Andrew's pointabout like Dyche being Sorry,
(14:13):
what Adam said, about Dychesaying, oh, I've taken these
players as far as I can, it'slike, yes, you've taken the
players as far as they can.
Other managers will get moreout of these players and that
has absolutely proved to be thecase.
I think the one negative pointon the two games, or on the
(14:34):
Brighton game, is that it lookslike we may have lost Calvin
Lewin and Mangala for extendedperiods of time.
I've not seen anything updatedon the injuries yet, but when a
hammer string goes, like Dom'sdid and it's immediately you
know you're going off the field,then that's never a good sign.
That's normally multiple weeks,and then Mangala tried to play
(14:55):
on and then didn't.
Therefore, you're probablylooking at him being out for a
few weeks as well.
So they are two big blowsCalvert-Lewin especially because
I don't think Moyes necessarilyfancies Beto that much and
obviously Brodge is injured.
So we may well find ourselveshaving to go into the transfer
(15:16):
market for a striker in a waythat we might not have done had
Calvert-Lewin not had thatinjury.
But yeah, overall good.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And that transfer point is tricky.
What I want to sort of move onto we've got an idea of targets,
but do you see us being able tolike?
Getting a new striker is hardand getting a new striker that's
better than Beto.
I like Beto.
I think he's a relativelylimited footballer but actually
I think quite a good instinctivefinisher.
(15:48):
Now that's a very different.
He's almost the inverse ofCalvert-Lewin.
In that sense I like him.
I think he's.
I always wonder how good oursecond choice striker can
possibly be, because who's goingto sit on the bench at Everton?
But do you think there's anyhope we actually do something
there that makes a differenceversus doing what historically
(16:08):
we will have done, which is webring in someone who's also
another second grade striker.
So we have two second gradestrikers and you can't add them
up yeah, yeah, I think it'sinteresting.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
The thing I would highlight that's interesting
about this is the story that'scome out about Brozier, about
about him.
Basically, the talk is he'sgoing to stay at Everton to do
his rehabilitation.
Now, part of that could be wecouldn't agree with Chelsea the
finances of sending him back,which is a whole different
question about the deal that wesigned.
But Moyes has always been keenon Brozier.
(16:40):
He tried to sign him a coupleof times previously and now.
So obviously it doesn't help usright now because he's injured.
But thinking longer term, youdon't know what Calvert-Lewin's
going to do.
I think it's pretty clear thathe doesn't fancy Beto.
You wonder whether keepingBrozier around is a plan for the
future.
We're not going to pay the £30million or whatever the
(17:02):
agreement is with Chelsea on thebasis of this season because
he's not done anything.
He's been injured for most ofthe year.
But you could see a world wherethat gets negotiated down come
the end of the season.
I think the question you've gotto ask yourselves is what's the
sensible thing to do right nowthat keeps us in the Premier
League, because what you don'twant to do is panic in the
(17:27):
january and buy a, you know,like we did with under allardyce
, where you bought sort of theowalcott and shank toson for a
combined 40 million poundsbecause you know we needed
players in when actually youdidn't really need them to stay
up.
You were probably going to stayup anyway.
So, like, what's the I wouldonly?
(17:47):
I would only go out and buy astriker if you think it actually
improves the team beyond thenext six months.
I wouldn't go out and buy astriker because we need a
striker right now.
I'd much rather, if you were ina position, I'd much rather say
okay, if we can't get a strikerwe need right now, I'd rather
get a like a winger that willhelp us longer term, because
then can you do some somethingwhere you're pushing jai into
(18:10):
the middle if you really need toand like and do something a bit
more creative there, whichwe've seen.
Obviously we've seen molly's doin the past with it's not quite
the same, but when he had toplay k or filet he's a striker
like.
I'd much rather look at longterm.
What do we than?
Oh, we need a striker right nowbecause Calvert-Williams got
injured and Brozier's injured,so let's go sign a striker.
I just think that is theshort-termism and we can get on
(18:34):
to where we think this plays outin the league.
But you look at the maths ofthis, right and I did this the
other day If you take the pointsper game that basically
Leicester, Wolves, ipswich havegot over the course of the
season, it's about 0.7, right,it's about 0.7 points per game.
(18:56):
You take that over the full38-game season, assuming they
don't get any enormously better,they get to about 27, 28 points
, right?
So how many points do werealistically need?
Now, I'm not pretending thatthey won't get better, because
you know relegation does funnythings to teams at the end.
But like, even in a world wherethey double their points per
(19:19):
game, they still only get tolike mid 30s.
So, like, how many points do werealistically need to avoid
relegation?
And therefore, what's the costbenefit of investing a huge
amount of money on a strikerwhen you're probably going to
get, like, what we need?
10 points.
11 points probably will keep usup.
We're going to pick up 10 11points in the remainder of the
games with, without signinganybody.
(19:41):
I'm not saying we should dothat, but that's the calculation
you've got to make.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
It's interesting that because I wonder you know the
deadline is Sunday, which is thesecond right, 11pm, whatever.
Obviously we play Leicester onSaturday and we'll talk about
that game in a bit more detail.
But you wonder, if you wererunning Everton you might look
at that game and go but who winthat game?
And we've got points, then Ithink then you're like well, I
(20:10):
mean you, you betterparticularly bear in mind you're
beating Leicester.
You're like well, that's a bigdeal, because you say if you get
eight more points between then,the end of the season, you're
almost certainly safe.
So you might make that judgmentyeah, um hello again.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So we didn't we didn't mention that you, we
never mentioned that you guysyour connection dropped out.
We were just seamlessly we wereprofessional about it.
We lost Adam and Andrew forabout two minutes there, which
is why you just exclusivelyheard from me.
Ben and I carried it very wellactually, yeah, we did, and for
those of you you can't see thisbecause this isn't a video
format but Adam and Andrew havemoved rooms from the study into
(20:47):
Adam's bedroom, so I was likequite lovingly lying next to
each other on Adam's bed.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
They're kind of like Morecambe and Wise for those of
you who are watching.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
One for the kids there.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Or that scene from Charlie and the Chocolate
Factory, when all thegrandparents are in bed.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
This is also my old bedroom as well.
There you go, exactly so nicesymmetry to it all.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Anyway, transfers.
Someone talk about transfers.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I agree with what you said, ben.
I think if you look at thenumber of points, even in the
best that Ipswich or Wolves orLeicester can hope for, which is
like 36 points, they've got tomore than double their tally
(21:43):
between now with 15 games.
They've got 15 games remaining.
We've got 16, caveat the factthat it's the derby We've got to
like.
Are we saying that we're notgoing to get 15 points from our
remaining 16 matches?
It's just not going to happen.
We're going to do that becausewe're going to do better than we
(22:04):
are we have done.
All we need to do is just dojust as slightly less, slightly
worse than what our currentpoints per game total shows.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, the funny thing is, if we got a point per game
between now and the end of theseason, we'd end up on 39 points
, right, I think.
So you know you, which is dicewould get you a point per game.
So moise could have come in,won these two fucked off.
We bring sean dice, you know,like that, you're right, like we
(22:42):
.
Just that that's where I sawsix or seven point difference.
You're still hitting guys, notthat that much, but actually it
is because people are not goingto randomly double.
The conversation we were havingbefore about AI stuff, before
we started recording the idea ateam just doubles their average
points per game.
It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Name me some strikers that have worked out in January
.
I'd be struggling to name fiveto ten.
I can name one for Everton,which is Nikicilla Jelovic.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I was going to say Jelovic as well.
I was going to say Jelovic aswell.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Andy, you might remember this better than I did.
We signed Kevin Campbell inJanuary as well.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I think I'm on loan.
I think we signed Campbellbefore.
What a leper, and also.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I think we signed Campbell before the days where
transfer windows existed, so itwasn't quite the same.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But it was like mid-season now.
But I agree with you, I don'tthink there's been many and we
all know you overpay and we'vegot FFP stuff.
So you know, I would ratherthey had kind of eyes on a prize
.
We signed Kevin Campbell in.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
March, March of 1999.
So he came in really late inthe season and saved us.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think it was like six games.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He scored nine goals in like six games, or 11 in nine
or something.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Nine in eight, as the man who was looking at his
Wikipedia page.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I remember that, those games so well, those goals
he scored.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
So sorry this is.
I'm just I'm diving into aKevin Campbell rabbit hole.
Now we signed bear in mind, wesigned him in March.
By the end of the season he wasour top goal scorer, both at
home and away.
We signed him in.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
March, we were shit, do we?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
were shit.
Do you remember the old jokelike people were going around
the houses around Gladys Streetand Bullens Road like asking for
, asking for change, so theycould like give it to the club
so we could buy him permanently?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
yeah, six goals in his first three games.
He won player of the monthaward in April.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, yeah, he was an amazing player for us.
May he rest in peace legend.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I, I think, signing wise.
I agree with Ben steer clear ofa striker, because Beto is our
worst in inverted commas, strikeout the three that we have, but
currently he's our only fit one.
And obviously the news is aboutCalvert-Lewin will come out in
(25:11):
the next few days, I'm sure, butI'd be looking at a left-back
because I do like Michael Lenko,but I think he is definitely
the sort of area that we need tolook at and there's someone
more attacking, and I don'tnecessarily say that Michael
Lanko needs to play second place, but I think there's a space
(25:36):
for him as being one of ouroptions at centre-back, actually
as the left-sided centre-back,and put Brandt way in the middle
of a back three.
I think there's an option there, but I'd be looking at that, or
someone if he does want to playwingbacks.
I think we've played.
(25:57):
Obviously we played the 3-5-2 orwhatever formation you want to
call it, with back three againstSpurs, but in the other two
games we played four at the back, so it remains to be seen what
sort of formation will be hispreference, but I think we
should be looking at, especiallywith McNeil being out for some
(26:22):
time.
I think we do need morecreativity around attack
midfield area, whether that's a,and I would be looking at why a
wide, a more wide player,because and jides, because he's,
uh, you know, so agile, soskillful, both footed.
I think he is good on the left,but I think he is 70, 80 of the
(26:45):
player that he can be on theleft than it is um more
centrally, um, so I'd be lookingat someone, um someone out wide
, um, uh, either um wide left orwide right for me andy, what
are your thoughts on, like thetransfer window a few days left?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
what are the priorities?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
yeah, this is a really interesting discussion
because I thought that, in orderto capitalise on the fact we're
being on the front foot, morethat getting somebody to stick
the ball in the net would be apriority.
But listening to Ben speakabout the number of points
Everton actually need to stay inthe division has changed my
(27:28):
mind around that, because Ihaven't thought of it in quite
those circumstances, when wejust have discussed this before,
I've said left-back andleft-side of the team every
single time, because I've got,you know, mikalenko, he's, if
you think of you think of theperson in that position was Luka
(27:50):
Dean prior to him.
They're light years away interms of ability and level of
play in my opinion.
So I've always felt he's alittle bit of he tries hard.
I've always felt he's a littlebit of a weak link defensively.
So at the very least, we wantanother player, at least a
(28:10):
challenge, for that position,and I agree with what Adam just
said about more attacking playin the wide areas as well.
But again, ben's absolutelyright If we beat Leicester, get
up to 26 points, there's everychance the club might look
around and go well, yeah, weonly need 10 more points.
(28:32):
This squad can get 10 morepoints.
We'll keep our powder dry, um,not risk any.
You know PSR issues and also aswell, of course.
I believe 10 or 11 players areout of contract at the end of
the season, yeah, so so there'sthat aspect to it as well.
They can have a good look roundand look at who they might want
to offer contracts to or whothey might want to let go.
(28:55):
I want to talk about thatcontract thing.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I'm going to read you the list of people who are out
of contract.
Yeah, so, calvert-lewin, decore, keane Garnagay, ashley Young,
seamus Coleman, joe Virginia,asma Begovic, and then obviously
we've got Brozier and Harrisonas domestic loans that will go
back, which I have.
(29:20):
That's 10, and maybe I'mmissing something.
And then well, you've gotMangala and Lindstrom as well,
who are foreign loans thank youso much so of those players, and
particularly the ones that aresort of the permanent players,
if you like, who are out ofcontract, who are our priorities
to re-sign, because it's a hellof a thing.
We have a relatively smallsquad.
I think our first team squad is23 or 24 players and we've just
(29:42):
listed 14 of them who, bydefault, are leaving, so there's
going to be no one.
We literally won't be able tofield a team mathematically, so
presumably some of these playersare going to be kept on.
Any strong views on who shouldbe retained from that group?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I think.
So putting aside the loan.
Well, let me cover loan playersquickly.
I think you find a way to keepMangala.
I think you find a way to keepLindstrom if the price is right,
because I think they'd be good.
Harrison think you find a wayto keep Mangala.
I think you find a way to keepLindstrom if the price is right,
because I think they've beengood.
Harrison, yeah, could take orleave Brogier, depending on what
you think about his fitness.
I think the priorities of theother ones are Calvert-Lewin,
(30:17):
but reasons we've all discussed,I think, for all of his injury
problems and whatever.
Getting buying strikers is hard.
The other one, the second one Iwould actually put on that list
, is Garner Gay, because I thinkhe's so crucial to how we play
and he's still.
He was our man of the matchagainst Brighton and does so
much of the yards in themidfield and the dirty work.
I would sign Decore and Keaneif the deal was right.
(30:43):
I think Decore still gives yousome legs in midfield.
I think he's still pretty pooron the ball.
Keane is a fine fourth, fifthcentre-back, like, so keep him
around if the deal, if thedeal's cheap, I think you let
Ashley Young go because I thinkhe's.
I think he's done.
I mean, maybe keep Colemanbecause of the sentimentality
more than anything else he's.
(31:03):
You know good to have in the inthe dressing room and you know
a competent third choice rightback and play.
You know good to have in the inthe dressing room and you know
a competent third choice rightback and play.
You know center back in a threeand a pinch.
And then Virginia because youneed a spare goalkeeper.
So I would definitely be okaywith, like I think I feel if
they all went I'd feel we werein a big problem.
I think it'd be fine with oneof the goalkeepers and Ashley
(31:24):
Young leaving.
I'd be fine if Coleman retired.
I'd be fine if Coleman retired.
I'd be fine if Keane left.
I'd be kind of fine if Decoreleft.
I think Gay and Calvert-Lewinand then Mangala Lindstrom are
the four that I would reallyfocus on.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Andy Adam thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I think I disagree with Ben slightly around Decore,
because I think the wages havegot to be taken into account,
because two of those three,three of the top earners of our
club, two of whom are out ofcontract, which is Gay and
Decoray so yeah, it depends whatsource you want to look at, but
(32:05):
you know Decoray is on anythingup to about 130,000 a week.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah, as a caveat.
Obviously, like reasonable deal, I'm not re-signing about 130
grand.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
No, I'm not suggesting that's what you're
saying.
What I'm saying is that even ifhe takes half that salary,
that's still you know that'sstill looking at like three
million a year for a player whois objectively been pretty
rubbish and is not going to get.
I don't think it's going to getmuch better.
I think Gay is far morevaluable to Moyes' system and
(32:42):
the sort of system that Moyeswould want to play.
So I personally wouldn't beretiring Decore.
I think he's been really goodfor us since he joined in 2017.
Yeah, 2017, I think it was no2019 when Ancelotti came in, so
I'd be looking.
And then I think, if the priceis right for Lindstrom, I agree,
(33:07):
I think Mangala's a really tidyplayer.
I think he's good if you canget him on a good deal.
I think I've got a few friendsat work who are Forest fans and
they said, you know, last seasonhe was one player who really
had some composure on the balland made them, you know, really
got the sort of football insideof their, of how their manager
(33:30):
wanted them to play going, andwe've seen that themselves.
He's a really tidy, composedplayer, even when even in a dice
system he sort of stood out inthat regard.
So I'd be looking at him as apriority, I think Calvert-Lewin
obviously the injury maybechanges things, but it's all
(33:52):
against Spurs.
He looked much more like theplayer that we saw towards the
end of Dyche's first season inthat January to May time when we
just stayed up.
He was integral to the way thatwe played and obviously if we
(34:17):
can get him scoring again likewe did under Ancelotti, then
he'll be huge.
But I think it's safe to saythat he doesn't want to sign a
new contract.
So I think we can unfortunatelysay, you know, wave him goodbye
.
Safe to say that he doesn'twant to um, that he doesn't want
to sign a new contract.
So I think we can unfortunatelysay, um, you know, wave him,
goodbye.
Um, I think the number ofplayers like going out like that
(34:38):
obviously leaves our, leave oursquad really thin.
So, and with that it's not somuch the fact that you have to,
you have to, uh, those, thoseplayers go out, but obviously
those players therefore need,you know, replacing um, and
that's an enormous number of newplayers to integrate into a,
into a team, and that neverreally works like having such
(35:00):
high turnover of players.
Never works like that.
The best teams are always theones that add one or two players
, like every summer, and build ateam slowly.
So, um the too long didn't bepart of my answer.
Is uh no to the core.
A get virginia in.
Keep michael keen, uh lindstromif he's, if he's uh on the
right, right money, butdefinitely he'll be looking at
(35:22):
um mangala, as would be my uhwould be my priority.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Andy, what are your thoughts on that?
I'm interested in what youthink about whether you want
generally to keep most of thoseplayers or whether you fancy a
clear out.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I broadly agree with the sentiments that have just
been expressed by Ben and Adamin terms of who to keep and who
to let go.
Ashley Young it's his one songseason.
He's right at the end of hiscareer, obviously.
He's arguably been our bestplayer in certain games this
season, which is a testament tojust how badly some of the other
(36:03):
players have performed invarious matches.
Again, I'd like to seeCalvert-Lewin stay.
I've been quite critical of himat times this season, but again
already under Moyes in the threegames, he looks like a little
bit like already theCalvert-Lewin that was playing
under Ancelotti, where he wasjust getting more opportunities
(36:27):
and more chances.
He still misses some chances,but he's just getting more
opportunities because we're inthe opposition box more.
I mean, he seems to think he'sgoing to be playing for a more
high-profile club than Evertonthat's higher up the division.
I'm not so sure if that's goingto be the case.
(36:49):
I think he might have ideasabove his station and he's being
told things by his agent orhangers-on or whoever.
It might be that he's betterthan he actually is.
So if no offers are forthcoming, then will he sign a new
contract in Everton?
(37:09):
I think there's every chancethat he might do Equally.
Of course he will end up goingsomewhere else and we don't get
anything for him.
We'll have to wait and see.
But no, I'd be happy keepingMichael Keane.
He's perfectly decent cover forcentre-back.
I'd like to see DCL stay, butwe'll have to see if he does or
(37:32):
not.
I'd be happy to see Begovic go.
The few games I've seen JanVirginia play over the years, I
think he's played the odd cupgame.
Here and there he's actuallylooked quite decent.
So again, for a number twogoalkeeper he's been perfectly
adequate.
So yeah, I would agree with thesentiments already expressed
(37:55):
about who to keep and who to letgo.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
It's a hell of a job, isn't it?
Especially when, of course, theother person who's got his
contract at the end of thesummer is Kevin Thelwell, who's
responsible for all of this.
So there's a sort of cliff edgethere all around, which I hope
some sensible people at the clubare thinking about.
All right, we've got a fewminutes left.
Let's talk about the Leicestergame Funny one.
(38:18):
This because I think Begovic.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Sorry, I think Begovic should stay, purely for
the fact that I completelyforgot that he was even our
player, until I see him be ashithouse at the weekend at the
end of that melee.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Speaking of which, can I just bring something up
before we move on to the rest ofthe game?
I don't know what you're goingto say.
Hasn't you ever known anyone tobe given a yellow card for
impersonating a seagull before?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I was going to ask you, ben, which rule does that?
Which paragraph 47c do not.
You cannot impersonate birds onthe field.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
I, I sort of I was watching this game live and I
saw that he scored and I saw thecelebration.
It was all very funny.
And then I saw that he got ayellow card and I was like I was
trying to track it, like.
I then watched it back and Isaw if he did anything else.
I watched another replay fromanother angle and I watched the
highlights and I was like no, no, he was given a yellow card
because he was deemed to bewinding up the opposition fans
(39:20):
by doing this.
He was allowed to wind up theopposition fans.
Sorry, we don't give you yellowcards for hurt feelings anymore
.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
RAOUL PAL.
Also the rules.
The rules are thereforecontextual, it's like.
It's like if I do a seagullimpression at any other ground,
that's not a yellow card.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
And also it doesn't make any sense, because a
seagull's a really easy thing toimpersonate, right?
How do you fucking impersonatea toffee?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That is a yellow card that we can't have at all.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
We can't have that awarded against us.
It's impossible.
If I'm at Newcastle and I takemy shirt off and reveal a pair
of giant mantids, am I takingthe piss?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
But I have to say I mean, the referee was total
bobbins on.
I can't remember who it was.
Was it Tim Robinson?
He was bobbins.
And he's always Bobbinswhenever I've watched him, so it
doesn't surprise me at all thathe decided that impersonating a
seagull was a bookable offenceand it took him forever as well
(40:22):
to give that penalty.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
And I was listening to that bit, I was driving and
Graham Stewart and what's hisname?
I always forget his name IanSnowden.
No, the guy who's the Everton'smedia guy.
They were incredulous.
They were like because it was afunny one and you could see why
(40:44):
he said it, because only Betoreally claims for it.
No one else does anything.
And then they see the replayand they were like it's a
penalty, it's got to be apenalty.
And it was so funny because itwas five minutes of graham
stewart going.
It's got to be a penalty, it'sgot to be.
It took that long for them togo.
Well, he's clearly handled it.
He clearly moved his arm likeit took.
(41:05):
You know, I was timing it.
In the end it was five and ahalf minutes to make that
decision I mean that I didn'tknow it was that long.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
That's genuinely extraordinary, because I was at
work on Saturday so I'd listenedon Radio 5 and they cut to that
game when that incidenthappened and the consensus on
Radio 5 was the penalty decisionwas a bit contentious and
(41:31):
Everton were a little bitfortunate to get it.
And then when I saw it later Ithought, well, what on earth is
the debate about If you don'tgive a penalty for that?
He hit the ball with his arm.
Yeah, it's obviously a penalty.
It can't be anything else.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, you know there's no way and it's like
again.
I understand why the refereecouldn't see it because it's in
front.
You know there's players in it,but the amount of time it took
VAR to give that, and then he'slooking at all these different
replays, it was really a weirdone.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
It wasn't the worst of the referee in Dijon of the
weekend, of course.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
That.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Arsenal left back, getting sent off for what was
basically a trip.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
I haven't seen yet.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be therefereeing fraternity here and
say it's not just a trip, he, ifhe rakes, he rakes.
He rakes his studs down hisshin.
And he's doing it with no, hedoes, he does.
If you watch the replay, herakes his studs down his shin.
Watch the replay he rakes hisstuds down his shin.
That's why Michael Oliver gavea red card and the fact that
he's doing it with no intentionto play the ball at all.
(42:37):
I can understand why a red cardwas given.
I don't think it's a red card,but I can absolutely in law
justify a red card in thatscenario.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Do you think that'll get overturned?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
No, I don't think that'll get overturned.
No, I shouldn't say that itmight get overturned, it might
not.
I can absolutely see whyMichael Oliver saw what he saw
gave a red card.
I can also understand why VARdidn't go.
I think he made a mistake here,because it's not just a trip.
Henry Winter said this Likeevery trip is now a red card,
it's bollocks.
It's not a trip.
Look at where the contact is.
(43:05):
Look at where the angle of hisbad challenge that he does.
He's trying to trip him.
He's trying to clip his anklesand take him down and get a
yellow card and that's fine.
He does it badly.
He catches him with his studsand he breaks down and it's like
it's not a good tackle nahdisagree, sorry okay you're
allowed, you're allowed to.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I do agree.
It's like I do agree, like,agree, like it's intentional.
It's one of those that I'vesaid for years like there needs
to be a, a yellow card.
A yellow card doesn't sufficebecause he does it because with
the intention of thinking thathe's going to get a yellow card,
which is you know, it nullifiesthe entire point of having a
yellow card If the punishment isworth the it's on the long
(44:04):
spurs left wing and the glisserguy was on the floor and he just
wrapped his arms around his.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
I'm not sure how.
I'm not sure how much you werepaying attention, but Bergwijn
hasn't played for Spurs in about18 months.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, I didn't think I'd be right.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I thought you said Bergwijn I was going to let it
slide, it was Mickey Moore andit was Harry Wink that was very
kind of you.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
As we all know, ben hasn't let anything slide since
1992.
So it was never going to happen.
But it was never going tohappen there, but it was.
It was like it was one of thoselike he gave a yellow card, but
it was like such a ludicrousfoul that it should have been
more than that.
It shouldn't be a red card youcan get sent off for it, but it
should be like a what you'retaking the piss there.
Mate additional, you know,grabbed him it really should be.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
That.
That's for me.
That's what Lewis Skelly shouldhave like yeah, there needs to
be a punishment, please, thereis.
No, there wasn't a rightpunishment, so it's one of those
.
It's almost like yeah, I justdon't.
I just think the bar for thatmeeting, a red card wasn't met.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
All right, so we've got like three minutes but we
need to wrap up.
We're going to do predictionsfor the Leicester game quickly.
We've won this because you knowwe've won a couple of games.
Leicester are crap, but wethink, you know, they've just
beat Spurs.
We know Spurs are crap.
We played them.
It's a strange one to read, ben.
What do you think?
Prediction for theEverton-Leicester on Saturday?
I think we'll win.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I think we'll win 2-0 .
Because, yes, leicester beatSpurs, but Spurs are rubbish.
They're on a terrible run ofform.
They can't defend.
Leicester were no great shakesin that game at all.
They were dodgy at the back,they were dodgy from the set
pieces.
They've been terrible allseason.
Obviously, they get a bit ofconfidence from getting the win,
but I still think we are abetter team and have better
(45:53):
players and have a bettermanager.
So I think, yeah, 2-0, 2-0Everton.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Andy, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (46:04):
I think the Leicester beating Spurs result was a bit
of a blip for them.
I think a much more accuratedemonstration of where they are
in the Premier League is thefact they lost six games on the
bounce prior to that get theSpurs game.
I don't think Van Nistelrooy isa good managerial appointment,
Contrast that with the upturn inform Everton have had since
(46:25):
Moyes has been appointed.
I am going to be superoptimistic and I think we're
going to win 3-0.
Incredible.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Literally as in I'm incredulous, adam thoughts.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
I agree with Andrew.
I think we're quite asoptimistic as a 3-0 victory, but
I think it'll be comfortablefor us In general.
I think we'll do.
We will provide some scaresbecause it's Everton, but I
think we'll do.
We will provide some scaresbecause it's Everton, but I
think we'll win.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I think we'll win 2-0 alright, I think we'll win 2-1,
because I think there'll besome scares.
It's not going to becomfortable, but I think we'll
do it.
Alright, we're going to wrap itup.
Good to see you all.
Thanks for listening.
Follow us on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcasts.
That's where we are and we'llsee you next time.
Come on, you Blues.
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