Special - Why Moyes is right for Everton

It looks like David Moyes will be returning to Everton. Is he the right choice? Austin and Adam discuss.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to episode I don't even think we're going to
number it of the Boys BrothersEverton podcast.
We're doing a special episode,first time we've ever done this.
I don't want to say celebrateit's unfair because he's, I
think, a good human but mark theend of Sean Dyche's tenure as
Everton manager.

(00:36):
It's just me and Adam today.
I'm Austin always here, orusually always here.
Andy and Ben are on a flightand Andy's working, so he
couldn't make it.
So me and Adam are going tokind of give our thoughts on
this.
We're recording it just afterthe Peter game, which Everton
won 2-0, so we're in the fourthround of the cup, which is some
good news.
Adam, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, I'm good, thank you.
Yeah, just finished watchingthe game and just had a.
You know, got a long day atwork and etc.
But yeah, I'm good, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
How are you, I'm very well.
So I think when we all woke upthis morning at different times
I think you know we were allsort of texting last night about
how you know it's.
Obviously you know Dyches canhave another couple of games and
certainly his press conference,which I think was on Tuesday,
didn't really.
I mean, I actually thought itwas quite a good press
conference.

(01:29):
That was a day after werecorded our last pod or two
days after, where we sort ofsaid, right, he's got to go, and
I actually think he was prettygood and pretty honest.
Actually I was kind ofimpressed.
I still think he should getfired.
Statue.
I was kind of impressed.
I still think he should getfired.
But I don't think any of ustoday were expecting to kind of
see the news that he he's he'sbeen sacked and it came out, you

(01:50):
know, three hours before.
It was like 4 30 I think, uktime, three and a half hours
before we kick off in an fa cupgame, which is weird.
It's very effortless, you know,to do it in that kind of
bonkers way.
Um, I guess first Christianright decision.
I mean, I kind of know youranswer to this, but yeah, it was
the right decision.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I think the last couple of Two of the last three
podcasts we've done have beencentred around Daish and
obviously the last one we did afew days ago was where we talked
at length all five of us aboutit's time to go and it's the

(02:31):
right decision.
I think it's fair to say likenot many of us expected it today
or maybe in the circumstancesin which it's happened.
But, yeah, absolutely the rightdecision.
The football's been reallyreally poor and the stats that

(02:53):
have sort of backed up a lot ofwhat people say about Deitch and
myself included in the pastabout how he's been relatively
successful at Everton.
They've dried up this season.
I might end up going on a bitof a long stat rant here.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Everyone who listens to this has got that button on
their podcast app where they canfast forward 30 seconds.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm going to.
I've done a little bit of prepbefore this, um, you know, for a
change, um and um, it really isa change.
So people are thinking well,how does?
How is dice, like you know,compared to our previous um few
managers.
So he's he's got the thirdworst percentage since Moyes at
31%, but he has got the best outof Benitez, lampard and himself

(03:52):
.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
You're talking about win percentage.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Here Win percentage, yeah, so at 31%.
By comparison, lampard had 26%and 24%, sorry and Benitez had
26% and Dyche has come in at 31%across all competitions.
Obviously, he's been in forroughly twice as long as those

(04:14):
two, so it's worth taking thatinto account.
We've also had, during histenure, we had the second, we
were joint second for the mostclean sheets at home.
Uh, during the 2023-24 season,um, but, and we conceded, given

(04:34):
our position, we only conceded94 goals in the 78 premier
league games that he took, tookcontrol of.
So 94 and 78 isn't awful, butthat that that sort of sums him
up of what he's been like.
Like, defensively, overall,things have been, you know, very
, very good, I'd say um, but, um, attacking wise, it's never,

(04:59):
ever been, it's never beenpositive in terms of like stats,
of goals scored, um, so, uh,we've, uh, we only scored.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
so, dice, dice's team only, ever only, scored 76
goals in how many games, games,yeah so just, I mean just on
that one point, right, you'vegot uh, you know, 94 goals
conceded in 78 games, 1.2 goalsa game, and you're scoring
slightly less than one goal agame, right.

(05:32):
So so, as my american friendslike to say, the math don't math
right, like you you are.
That is not.
You cannot, literally cannot,be successful with those numbers
, because you are going to losemost games.
And particularly the fact thatthose numbers are so close is
kind of interesting because itjust shows, it evidences

(05:56):
something I think we've allexperienced with dice, which is
it's always in the margins, yes,it's always on a knife edge and
you know he might just get youthere, enough maybe, but it's,
you're always so close to theedge.
Whereas actually even I won'teven say great teams, because
we're not trying to be a greatwe'd love to be, we're not
realistically trying to be agreat team, effective teams

(06:18):
aren't going to be like thatright, they're going to have.
So it's not even.
It was like if you wereconceding a goal every two games
and scoring a goal every game,you go okay, right, that's
pretty successful.
So he's actually not quite goodat either of them.
To make it make sense, yeah,totally.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I think if you were to take like the, obviously we
got 48 points last season.
So obviously, what 48 pointslast season?
So obviously what was happeninglast season um, because you
know that's a, that's amid-table, um, a mid-table
quantity so what was obviouslyhappening last season was when
we, if we take, you know, fivegames that we lost, we might be

(07:00):
losing two of them by two goalsand then the other three by one
goal, but when we were winninggames, we're only winning by one
goal and maybe one of.
We're only winning four of themby one goal and maybe one of
them by two goals.
So we are, we're obviously like, goal scoring obviously has

(07:21):
always been a problem, but asBen said in the last podcast, or
Andrew, sorry but said in thelast podcast, the moment that
you sort of go a goal down andyou really struggle to create
chances, that's when it becomesa real, real problem and it has
been for a long, long time.
So, to go back to your question, absolutely Like it's been the

(07:43):
right decision to get ridbecause the football's been
really poor.
But I must caveat and it's easyto sort of, you know, look at
what has happened this seasonand be very frustrated and
rightfully so.
But it is worth caveating, andPaul Joyce has written a little
bit in the Times about this andI've not read the article.

(08:04):
I just saw the.
He said, you know, in hisopinion, dyche did a good job at
everton and I'm object.
I'm trying to be objective andseeing in in the in the context
of the, the um, uh, theenvironment in which he's had to
work.
I struggle to disagree withthat.

(08:28):
Overall Now, this season's beenvery poor, absolutely, but 48
points last season was very,very good.
You know, the season before thelast second half, when he took
over in January, we were goingdown under Lampard and he, you
know, kept us up on the last daywith that 1-0 against

(08:53):
Bournemouth and obviouslycomfortably kept us up by 14
points on the table, but youknow, 22 points in reality.
So you know, I suppose we needto remember like he's's done a
good job, but the time has beenright for him to go, because the
stats show that all the goodstuff that we had last season

(09:14):
around you know we talked about,like the xg and the difference
between the xg and the goals wescored, and how daisha's plan
wasn't necessarily alwaysmanifesting itself on the pitch
last season in terms of thegoals scored, but there's no
denying the fact that 15 goalsscored in 19 Premier League
games and not having a shot ontarget against Bournemouth at

(09:37):
all.
And then what?
Was it?
The 81st minute or somethingagainst Forest.
The stats aren't lying now, youknow, um, the stats aren't
lying now, um, and he's producedthis narrative of, like that,
uh, he is that everton are, um,you know, punching above their
weight and everything's aboutmentality and things like that,

(09:58):
and and I think the therelationship um with the board
has obviously, uh has obviouslybroken down and you know,
obviously, I know you want totalk about a little bit about
that.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
So yeah, I think we definitely.
I definitely think there's alot in in how everton have kind
of announced this which tells uswhat's going on.
I think, just to wrap up thekind of stats point, I think
that one of the things we'vetalked about and I think I've
become a great believer thatreally I want to now judge
football teams and managers bythe fundamentals, more than
results, which might sound silly, but, and of course, over the

(10:30):
over a season or some period oftime, results are what matters.
But you know, martin has alwaysused to say this and actually
I've come around to thinkinghe's right that because if
you're, if you're doing theright things, if you imagine a
team that's getting a high xgfor low xg against, but you know
, go through four games wherethey're unlucky, refereeing
decisions, players missedchances, whatever you really

(10:52):
want to kind of ignore that.
Everton have lived in theopposite.
And there was, there was a stat, you know, jamie carragher, I
think.
I think jamie carragher mayhave been the nail in the coffin
because so many people paidattention to his monday night
football thing which is likejust completely like just it was
very jamie carrigan's a classact and and secretly obviously

(11:13):
at evertonian.
So you know, like you know, hewas classy about it, but he
basically destroyed daish.
And there was this stat onthere which, just in case folks
haven't seen, they, they, theyhad this brilliant graphic which
showed visually the number ofgoals from open play for teams,
all teams, in the Premier League, since the start of last season
.
So season and a half of data.

(11:33):
It's a valid sample, andEverton had not only the lowest
at 25, I think it was but thenext highest was double.
It was West Ham.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
And then everyone else was essentially in a curve,
you know where, like obviouslyI think it was like Tottenham
were top, I think, or maybeLiverpool, and they scored like
100 on, so like they were doubleWest Ham, but like we were in a
category of our own, completelyuniquely.
Outside that, and that takesinto account, you know, arsenal
would score a load of goals fromset pieces.

(12:05):
So it's that really like youlook at the fundamentals and you
go, it was not working.
You know you could justabsolutely tell.
Now, on the point you moved onto, like the board relationship,
I think interesting, your sortof thoughts on this added that
there's lots of ways you canphrase these things right.

(12:27):
People leave by mutual consentor not, they are thanked for
their service or not.
If you look at the clubstatement, which was two
paragraphs, and then thebriefing, particularly to the
times, which was basicallyobviously had been briefed by
the club and the messaging wasin the owner's mind, I should

(12:49):
given up is a phrase that'sattributed to a source and those
things like you know, the howthese things work is pretty
simple.
You know that is.
You know that paul joyce attimes is a serious journalist.
He's not making that up, that.
That is someone on theauthority of the freaking group
saying that right now.
That is, I think, prettydamning.

(13:14):
You know they said he's reallybeen relieved of his duties.
There was no thank you.
Clearly there's been anacrimonious split and the thing
that I thought was interestingwithin that was the phrasing of
it was it was phrased, beenphrased a couple of different
ways in different articles, andit's probably a difference based

(13:36):
on who's briefing them.
Honestly, on one hand, you'vegot a message that says the
owners believe that dychebasically gave up, uh, which
doesn't feel like him honestly,but there's a reason they're
saying that, whatever it mightbe.
There's another message that'sin some of the other coverage,
which is dyche believed he'dtaken the club as far as he can,

(13:56):
which I think is probablyessentially something we'd all
agree with.
Right, and you can imaginethose conversations that have
happened the last couple weekswhere they're going look, this
is going to get better and he'sbasically saying, look, I'm
doing the best I can.
This is how I know how to coachPremier League football and no,
I'm not going to do itparticularly differently, right,
but he doesn't want to or he'snot capable of it, as Ben's kind

(14:17):
of pointed out.
So I know your thoughts on thatare, but I read that as kind of
like yeah, like this has cometo a head, I think, pretty
sharply in the last sort of 48hours yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Um, I think the freaking group are always going
to come in and want to showtheir intent, and I imagine what
that's looked like is, you know, sat down with Dyche when they
took over and gone.
Look, we're going to give youtime, we're not going to come in
and swing an axe.
But the performances sincethey've come in albeit, you know

(14:51):
, there's only been, I think,three discounting three Premier
League games, I believe, sincethe official takeover.
It might be a couple more, I'mnot sure, but the performances
and the results have not beengood.
Obviously we've got to thinkabout how much did know, how

(15:16):
much did, how much did theavailability of Graham Potter
have, you know, to do with thatand the fact West Ham obviously
have won that, won that race,but I think that would have been
in their thinking as well, like, can we get someone like like
Potter to to come in?
And obviously that didn't, thatdidn't quite work out.
So I think the the the pointabout where you said uh, you

(15:42):
know what I said.
I, I think I've taken the clubor the team as far as I can.
I think in my, in my opinion,you know, seanice is a very good
, very principled man, but Idon't think that he's saying I'm

(16:03):
not capable of doing this, notcapable of making them better.
I think he's saying, in linewith what he said about, you
know, our attacking players andthings like that and everything
being about mentality and stufflike that, I think he's saying
there, I don't think this teamare capable of doing better with

(16:23):
me, with me in charge, and thatis obviously not something that
any um owners should be willingto accept for your manager and
I think managers always, evenlike Lopetegui, in West Ham's

(16:43):
statement, thanked Lopetegui forhis efforts and his backroom
staff for all their efforts atWest Ham.
And he didn't do a good job,but he's obviously been.
He's respected enough to beappreciated in the efforts that
he's put in, but Dyche hasobviously put an awful lot.

(17:04):
There's no doubt in that.
Dyche has been committed toEverton.
Whether you want to think thathe's done a good job or not is
irrelevant.
We can all agree on that.
He's been absolutely committed.
He's been committed to what hewants, what he's wanted to do,
whether you know whether that'sright or whether that's been the
right thing or not.
Um.
So for him, for the board, notto um deliver any sort of thanks

(17:27):
is really, really telling,because that sort the bar has to
be pretty low or pretty high,whichever when you're looking at
it, for that sort of thing notto happen.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, because they must be pissed like, pissed off,
like you know.
I think that and you would, I'dmaybe say you know, emotions
run high at these times andwe've all been angry, but in the
long term I hope Dyche isremembered.
Finally, I don't want to saylike we should, I think I don't.

(17:58):
I've looked back at themanagers we fired and boy,
there's a bunch to pick from.
And I can look back at, likeMarco Silva for example, and say
, yeah, maybe we shouldn't havegotten rid of him, like we were
18th when we did.
I understand why we did.
Maybe we shouldn't have done.
We were 10th when we firedRoberto Martinez, or maybe 12th,
we were 18th when we got rid ofSilva.
We were, but it was relativelyearly in the season and, look,

(18:20):
we were not in a good spot.
But if you look at how he's gotFulham playing now, you can see
the fundamentals were like thisguy knows how to coach football
teams and so probably a mistake.
Others are right, and I don'tthink we'll look back and say we
shouldn't have got rid of Dyke,even if we get relegated, which
I think is very unlikely, buteven if we do, I don't.

(18:40):
I think the reason, but let'ssee, if you look at the, the
numbers, the fundamentals of theteam are bad.
But I hope he's remembered witha lot of respect because I
think he's taken on a job withan awful lot of pressure.
He's taken a mountain of shit.
You can't even imagine thechaos that has been inside that
club with mishiri and no boardand no real ceo and and just no

(19:04):
proper decision making, and Ithink he's carried a lot of
water for us and held ittogether and I think he deserves
a lot of respect for that.
And you can also say, becausewe're all smart people, we can
hold two ideas in our head atthe same time and it's the right
time for him to move on.
You know, and maybe that shouldhave been done a bit earlier.
But you know, I understand.
I understand both why they'vedone it now and why they didn't

(19:28):
do it before now.
So maybe, maybe we'll come togo.
We should have been.
The club should have been a bitbetter to him on the way out, I
think, maybe than today'sstatement did.
I think he deserves a bit morethan that.
But if there's been a fallingout and he has, you know, been-
you know, and he has sort ofburned some bridges.

(19:49):
then you know, obviouslyemotions are a little bit raw
today when someone's writingthat yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I think it's fair.
I think it's a shame that thefreaking group have not, you
know, maybe represented evertonfootball club in there in the
way that sean dyche probablydeserves to be thanked, rather
than how they personally havefelt about it.
I think there's a, I thinkthere's that element missing,

(20:17):
because I think you'reabsolutely right, I think, um,
it is you know the two, the twothings of it's now.
It's right to move on now, butwe appreciate the fact that it's
very likely that we would notbe a premier league club without
Sean Dyche having been Evertonmanager, particularly for the

(20:39):
remainder of that 22-23 season.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
I suspect transfers played a bit of a role in this,
because people scratch theirheads and go timing.
It's like, well, Graham Potter,it may be that triggered it.
I don't know, We'll never.
I mean, maybe we will know oneday.
I'm not convinced that therewas some like Everton were
desperate to have him.
I don't think he would havebeen a good choice.
I think he in the long term, Ithink he'd have been a very good
choice.
But if you were making thedecision we debated this the

(21:07):
other day, you would debateright now.
I think he'd be the rightperson to drop it in the summer.
But you know, I'm not totallyconvinced about that and that
being the sort of trigger.
But it's possible thattransfers played a part and
hearing from agents and playersthat the uncertainty didn't know

(21:27):
that if you were a player youabsolutely would not sign
forever for a club where themanager is about to be fired,
right that is a profound impacton your career, that the fact
that the last guy picked you ashe was heading out the door, you
know.
So I think that they, they dowant to do business in january

(21:48):
and you can see, you know that,that having had an effect.
Um, I guess let's talk a littlebit about what's next.
Mourinho's ruled himself out,which means, by the way, that
Everton definitely weren'tinterested in him, because
that's the only.
You know.
Jose Mourinho, who I lovedearly but is an absolute

(22:14):
narcissist, you know him clearlyknew that he wasn't going to be
asked and therefore, just youknow, has had his people.
Brief that he's ruling himselfout, which is fine from smart,
from his point of view, moyes isthe overwhelming favorite.
How do you feel about that?
If Moyes gets a, you know,let's say, a two and a half year
contract or something?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
I mean I'm looking at the possibility of Moyes coming
back through the lens of, like,seeing us play the best
football of my life, just beingan Everton fan.
You know I'm 34 and I was 12when Moyes took over and then he
was there for those 11 yearsand we played some fantastic

(22:58):
football and were by far themost successful time of my life.
So I suppose I'm looking at itsort of through that lens and in
the context of where we findourselves, which is at a time
when we're fighting relegationfor the third season, third
season in a row, notwithstanding, obviously, last season when we

(23:21):
avoided it comfortably, but wewere fighting relegation.
For the most part.
Moyes knows the club.
It's very different, obviously,since he left 12 years ago but
he will provide, I think, thestability that we need and

(23:46):
there'll be a lot of peoplestill at the club who have
worked with him before.
And if he works in the same waythat he did, where he likes to
have a lot of control overthings, I think that's right.
Famously, he never to have thata lot of control over things.
I think that's right, you know,famously he never.
I mean this was certainly trueup until about 2009.
I'm not sure about after that,but he famously never, ever

(24:12):
signed a player for Everton thathe never personally had watched
in the flesh.
So I mean he went over toBelgium about six or seven times
to start to look to watchmauram fellaini play for
standard liege, for example.
Um.
So that, and there's no reasonto believe that moise has ever,
like you know, changed in thatregard and he comes with, you
know, having done objectively agood job at west ham and

(24:34):
obviously west ham wanted to goin a different direction in
terms of um, you know, the, thefabled or, in my opinion,
mythical West Ham way of playinga different footballing style.
So, and you know, they triedthat with Lopetegui.
It didn't work.
They're now bringing in Potterto try and do the same thing.

(24:56):
But Moyes, objectively, did agood job at West Ham, you know
he did a good job at, he did analright job at Sunderland.
So that became too difficultand Moyes will obviously play
better football and be able todo a better job with these
players and obviously, like yousaid, we'll have the possibility
of making some signings as well, which he'll be, you know,

(25:18):
already have a good idea aboutthe sort of making some signings
as well, which he'll alreadyhave a good idea about the sort
of players that Everton will do.
And also, there's no way thathe's not been keeping tabs and
looking at us carefully andprobably watching our games back
multiple times over the pastfew since he left West Ham, you

(25:40):
know, over the season, so he'sprobably known that the right
hand's on the wall.
You're on mute, by the way,austin, if you do want to
contribute.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
This is why you're here, Ad, I do so.
Do you want to get excited?
Let me get you excited.
Let me give you some DavidMoyes manager stats.
Oh, there we go.
Points per game at Everton 1.5.
Yeah, Points per game at manUnited, where he got fired for
being shit 1.7, which is higherthan every manager they've had

(26:10):
since.
Wow.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Wild.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
And then first spell at West Ham, 1.2.
Second spell at West Ham againgot fired recently 1.5.
And our league placements withDavid Moyes as manager starting
2002-2003.
Seventh, 17th, rope you on thatfourth Champions League 11th,

(26:37):
7th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 8th,7th, 7th, 6th, 7th.
Do you remember the time whenthe guardian football weekly
used to have a joke whereseventh was called the everton
cup?
yes, yeah, and and it's like oh,I mean, we were like offended
by that.
Take me back.
Oh, my god, which limb do youwant to exchange for the joke?

(26:59):
The joke being that we alwaysfinish seventh.
The joke and that was underDavid Moyes.
And it's interesting because Ihaven't watched a lot of West
Ham, I mean, and I say that I'vebeen to their stadium four
times, but you sat so far awayyou can't fucking see them
anyway.
So I don't, like I watched alot of football in the Moys as

(27:21):
well, like as you did.
Dozens and dozens and dozens.
I mean, I was a season ticketholder for that entire time, so
you know, dozens and dozens.
Again, I don't remember us everhaving a problem with this
style of football.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
No, I remember it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I remember it a little bit, I remember it a
little bit, Because the reason Isay that is sorry, I want you
to carry on, but like, becausethat's the West Ham fans
complaint is the style offootball.
And it's interesting becauseI'm like, well, we're not, like,
we're a bit.
Everton fans are a bit doubleheaded on this because we've got
the whole school science thing,but then the tippy-tappy

(28:02):
Roberto Martinez stuff drove usnuts too, so we're not good.
You know we don't.
We're not like as Allardyce.
Sam Allardyce had us finishedeighth.
If it was entirely a resultsgame, he'd still be our manager
now.
I think you know so we do care.
I don't remember us caring,when he was manager, of being a
problem.
So when he left it was like hewas going to man United, like it

(28:22):
was like.
You know.
It wasn't like we were pissed,you know so.
But the West, the West Ham fans, are like that was the reason
that he's not their manageranymore.
It's the fans hated the styleof football.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, totally, that's was never, never sacked.
Let's.
Let's remember he, his contractran out and the board decided
to go in a different direction.
Um, no, I, I only remember alittle bit.
Um, I can't remember whatseason, what season it would
have been.
You know about during theseason that we came 11th in
between that, like after thatfourth or something, and there

(28:53):
might have been a bit ofcomplaints around the style of
play.
Spagel play, then I seem toremember it, but it would have
been in me, very, very fleeting.
And let's remember, like someof the, some of the Spalpe, then
I seem to remember it, but itwould have been very, very
fleeting.
And let's remember some of thefootball we used to play.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I mean, you know like Well, the psychology of that
season would have been tricky aswell, wouldn't it?
Because we finished fourth.
I mean, that was a funny end tothe previous season, because
that was where we played insandals against Arsenal on the
last day of the season and lost7-0.
No, I never forget that.
But we finished fourth.
We had the real disappointmentof the Villarreal Champions
League qualifier.

(29:24):
Yeah, totally.
We didn't get into theChampions League proper and then
you go and finish.
Obviously our points per gamewas 1.6.
When we finished fourth, wewent to 1.3.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
We still finished 11th.
In the context of now it justseems mad that we, you know, see
that, saw that asdisappointment, but at the time
obviously we did have him finishfourth.
Um, I mean, do you rememberlike the down the left hand side
, like some of the football thatbaines and peon are like played
, I mean they would do twofantastic players, but that sort
of stuff was coached and tacticthat made available through

(30:00):
tactics and stuff.
So Moyes, I think, is but seenby some people as being like a
bit of a bit like Dyche, a bitlike Aladais, and I really don't
think that that's true you know, West Ham shouldn't be the sort
of a fair barometer to judgeDavid Moyes and his footballing

(30:26):
style, because I think West Hamtake the sort of the school of
science element of what we sortof some of our fans like to sort
of see on our logo, on ourNils-Saturnissi optimum as well.
I think some fans take that abit too far, but I wouldn't say

(30:50):
that we're, you know, in thesame they take it further than
Everton Football Club does.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
That's for sure, Right?
I don't think there's.
Is there any organization,entity in the world that is less
like, behaves a way that's lessconsistent with its own motto?
You know it's like unbelievable.
Sorry, carry on.
It's just nothing, but the bestis good enough.

(31:16):
I mean, please.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, it's been, it's been.
Uh, well, it's just, yeah, it'sbeen.
Um, yeah, it's just been awful,like, obviously fair to say
that we have not lived up tothat motto whatsoever, um, in
the past eight years or so.
Um, yeah, I'm.
I said a few weeks ago on thelast podcast, a couple of
podcasts ago, I thought Moyeswould be the person that would

(31:45):
likely come in if it weren'tGraham Potter, and I said at the
time I'd be happy with it.
And I'm even more happy nowbecause I think, in a nutshell,
he will provide the stabilitythat we need on and off the
pitch.
He knows the club.
He's already got that automaticrespect from his tenure of 11

(32:10):
years with us.
He knows the Premier League andhe will play better.
He will play better footballand that might take time, but he
will play better football andwe've seen tonight you know, I
know it's only Peterborough andwe weren't good tonight, let's
be quite clear.

(32:31):
But just to sort of look at whatyou can do with the same
players and how that can workand if you have the time to play
it.
And yes, obviously it's LeagueOne, a poor League One team, but
you just saw the difference inwhat someone like Moyes will be
able to see and how much moretactically flexible he will be,

(32:55):
because we played like a 3-5-2tonight and any time we were on
the ball, michael Enko andPatterson were basically off the
screen, like if you watched iton TV and our centre-backs had
the ball.
They were off the screen.
Yeah, they were just pinningthe wide positions.
Yeah, and Branthwaite andO'Brien pushed wide when we had

(33:16):
the ball at the back.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
And Len Baines and Seamus Coleman have done that in
an hour or maybe a day.
Maybe they found out at nineo'clock this morning.
Well, they did?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
They probably had.
I imagine Baines and Colemanhave probably had some sort of
compilation made of themselvesplaying for Everton and just
going right, Right, Vitaly,right, right, right, Vitaly,
right, you know, spend 20minutes watch this.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I want you to do.
Do that touchline.
If you look up at any point,vitaly, and you're more than
four feet away from it, move.
Yeah, nathan, same.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
That's the same.
That's what Moyes that's.
That's the thing that Moyeswill bring.
He will take those players andhe will automatically make us
more tactically flexible and hewill work better with those sort
of players.
And he's got some players thathe likes.
He likes players like N'Jai,because he brought Mohamed
Koudous to the club at West Ham.
He likes skillful players.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
He likes oh, yeah, you know what's his name morales
, and you know manny fernandez.
Gerard de la feo.
He couldn't quite get it witheverton, he couldn't quite break
through, but he did want thosecreative players, you know, yeah
, he did yeah, I mean, I mean,uh, yeah, de la feo was um, um,
he was martinez, but I take yourpoint like there are.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
There are a good number of flair players that he
brought to the club.
Steven Pienaar brought him backTwo spells with us, of course,
yeah, I think I'm personallyexcited about it, personally
very relieved, and I wouldn'thave said that we would have got

(35:02):
relegated under Dyche.
It would have just been anabsolute like turd of a rest of
the season.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
You know, just looking at this sort of the
recent you know we talk aboutthe Guardian joke, you know we
joke about Everton Cup finishingseventh Our last few years
really are an aberration.
I mean, this is the points pergame, and thanks ChatGPT for
these stats, by the way.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, thank you for my stats ChatGPT earlier too.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
All credit Points per game for managers.
I mean a lot of this says weshouldn't have fired these
managers, basically.
But you know, following Moyes,martinez, 1.56% fired.
Koeman, 1.4, fired.
Allardyce, 1.4, fired.
Marco Silva, 1.4, fired.
And Chilotti, 1.5, not fired,not that much better, not that

(35:53):
much better than the ones thatcame before him and that was all
like alright, whatever.
Then Benitez, 1.2, frankLampard 1.1, sean Dyche, 1.1.
So the last since you know,2000,.
Summer 2001,.
And you wonder how differentlife is if Ancelotti doesn't go
to Real Madrid.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
And you know, the stadium gets built.
Well, it's just like Moshiri,you know.
And maybe, if Vladimir Putindoesn't invade Ukraine, which is
the other significant thingthat happened to us, but you
know, like that, you just wonderabout that.
But these last three managersreally have put us through the
fucking mill, you know, and andreally been poor, and that was

(36:35):
not for most of that time wasn'tthe case, and Moyes's record, I
mean my word.
You know, if we could get backto finishing fifth and sixth,
because the thing I forget.
I was talking to my buddy peteabout this a few weeks ago in
new york, like we were in europemost like they had these great
trips to go and see us, you knowyou know as I you know enjoyed

(37:00):
saying all the time watch thisbatter the young boys of burn.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know like that was um, yeah, that was martinez,
wasn't it?
Because that was that year wehad like lukaku and stuff yeah,
yeah, no, you're right because,like the foundation is, the
foundation was laid.
Foundation was laid by moiseand martinez took that on and we
kept.
We continued to finish ineurope, obviously became fifth
in um in martine Martinez'sfirst season, after you know,

(37:28):
taking on the reins of Moyes andthe fantastic state that he
left the club in we had nofucking money.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
then Like this is the thing that's gotten a lot Like
when we spaffed a load of moneyaround really was towards the
end of Martinezinez's reign,when, when um, you know well,
midway through, moshiri tookover and we had some silly stuff
, but, like all the time throughmoises time, we had no money
and the premier league waspretty competitive.
Then it wasn't a joke of aleague in 2010 yeah, we, we

(37:57):
consistently like punched it.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
we consistently, I suppose me you could argue it's
a contradiction in terms, but weconsistently punched above our
weight under Moyes.
And of course you've readSoccernomics as well, but you'll
know that Moyes is,statistically, at the time of
writing I think that book'sabout 12 years old now but at
the time of writing Moyes wasone of the few managers to

(38:20):
actually have a net positiveeffect on a team, one of the few
managers to actually have a netbenefit, a net positive effect
on a team.
You know there's a couple of,you know being like Arsene
Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson,for example, but you know he's
in a quite at the time ofwriting.
He was in a very prestigiousbracket and he was a bloody good
manager.
And obviously you know whatbetter, what better sort of

(38:43):
accolade can you have than thegreatest manager of all time
choosing you to, to take, totake over the biggest club in
the world?
So, and it's not, it's not likehe's stocky, he's not, he's not
become like, you know, steveBruce or Alan Pardew, who were
also Premier League managersaround there, who now, you know,
either can't get jobs or havegot jobs in the lower leagues of

(39:07):
the football league.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
It's interesting that because in a way, I think he
sort of has, but wrongly, likebecause his you know his record,
you know West Ham, you know13th, 16th and then 6th and 7th,
and then they fire him, andthen 14th and then 9th, and then
they you know, they'reobviously in the middle of that
they would uh, you know, theywould a European trophy towards

(39:31):
the end of that last year.
Like I think he's, I think hehas been seen as a bit of a, I
think he is lumped in a bit withDyche and Allardyce as these
sort of dinosaur managers.
I think, as you said earlier on, I'm like I think that's
completely wrong, like I justdon't think he's that at all.
Um, and you can maybe thinkabout as, like, since everton
and david moyes parted 11 yearsago, we've both been lost in the

(39:53):
wilderness.
You know, I mean like he's gone.
All he was, man united got fired, rail associate disaster,
sunderland shit.
I mean that's suddenly that wasa basket case and it's a great
Netflix show but a terriblefootball team.
And then obviously West Ham Ithink he's done pretty well, but
like Everton have like justbeen in this period of real
instability and then we comeback together and it's like.

(40:14):
It's like when Fleetwood Mac,like when they finally like no
one's arguing with each otherand they just get on stage and
play and no one's arguing witheach other and they just get on
stage and play and it's great,and you've got to enjoy it while
it lasts you know?
great analogy.
Yeah, just I feel like this isa real, like I'm always I'm
overly romantic, but likethere's a I, I enjoy the sort of

(40:35):
circular beauty of things.
It's like when we replaced adrissagana gay with a drissagana
gay, you know I mean it's likejust three years later, like you
know, it's like we, of course,that's the he's who can replace
him.
Well, him, you know so, and youknow, of course, like we've
been wandering around frustratedfor so long because we did
under Koeman.

(40:56):
I mean, you look at thesemanagers Koeman, Allardyce,
Benitez, Lampard in a differentway, and Dyche, We've had real
problems with how they've donethe job.
You know, like Lampard, peopleloved, but the results were
terrible.
Everyone else we've ended uphating for various reasons.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, you made the point in the last podcast around
the previous ownership and howthere was no semblance of
structure to the appointments.
You were going, basically, fromone footballing style to a
completely different one, andthen back again, and then back
again and back again and youcould argue that, absolutely,

(41:35):
moyes is not Dyche and he's notAllardyce.
He's tactically astute, butwe're not going for someone
who's going to be able to.
He's not someone who'scomingically astute, but we're
not going for someone who'sgoing to be able to.
He's not someone who's comingin and wanting to play some sort
of footballing style that theseplayers yeah, yeah, because
Tony played management for the Uand he's a pragmatist, like he

(41:56):
will and this is, I appreciateso much more now is Moyes will
change his formation.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
He'll change his players.
He'll change his players.
He'll put like, he'll do likehe is a.
I remember him saying this along time ago about.
This is always the great thingabout Alex Ferguson.
What's Alex Ferguson's style offootball?
Winning, yes, you know, winningfootball, and not in the Sam
Allardyce.
You know, like Alex Fergusonwould I mean.
You know, like Ferguson would Imean generally played for at

(42:27):
the back, sometimes not, butmidfield combinations he would
change, he adapted.
Now he was always attacking, hewas always on the front foot.
I think Moyes is a bit morecautious than that, but that's,
I think, what Ferguson saw inhim is.
He's someone who approaches agame of football and works out
how to win it yeah, yeah,totally, totally yeah.

(42:52):
So yeah, I feel pretty good yeah, me too, I do.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, thought to conclude, thank you, sean Dyche.
You know there's shit in theend, but you know you kept us in
the Premier League, so thankyou.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
But best of luck.
Yeah, we won't build a statue,but we might put one of those
little flags in the new groundfor you, not one of the big ones
, but one of the little ones inthe new ground for you.
Not one of the big ones, butone of the little ones.
That would be appropriate.
Alright.
Well, our next game is is itnext Wednesday, is it the 15th?
Whatever that is, against Villa.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, it's Wednesday.
Home to Villa.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Probably, I imagine, moyes will be in charge
comfortably before then.
I'd be interested to see whatwe do and also see if any
transfer stuff comes up, becausethe other things for a wrap-up,
which we don't need to talkabout, but we should mention, is
the 12th of january, which isdoing some quick math.
Uh, maths, sorry, is uh sunday.
Uh is uh the day on which clubswill find out and the public

(43:59):
will find out any clubs thathave been charged with psr
breaches, and I think the theword is that everyone's waiting
to do any transfers until then.
So I think that's going tounblock some stuff.
So hopefully we'll have anexciting week next week.
Um, yeah, all right, well, goodplace to leave it.
Big day.
Uh, we didn't really talk aboutthe game, but we were shit, but
we won 2-0.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Uh and of how we predicted it to be.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Really it was fine, it was fine and it was good.
It was good.
Like it's sort of obvious, ifyou pay attention to the Everton
squad, that we should beplaying 3-5-2.
And they did and it worked okayenough.
So well done to Leighton Baines.
Seamus Coleman all right, sowe'll probably see you next week
.
Ad, thanks for hopping on thisone super quick.

(44:44):
Um, uh, thanks for listening.
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podcast.
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