November 27, 2023 • 39 mins
Are you having a challenging time coping lately, as the war in Israel rages on? Join me as I converse with Briana Goldberg, a seasoned psychotherapist, and clinical director of Better Days Therapy.
Briana draws on her own experience as a Frum mother, coupled with her expertise, and guides us on a path of self-care and compassion—crucial elements in cultivating healthy coping mechanisms. She emphasizes the need for intentionality in our self-care journeys, from setting boundaries, consciously choosing our company, to controlling our information intake.
Briana offers invaluable advice on working through emotions of guilt, distress, and despair, reaffirming the importance of self-care. Together, we redefine self-care, discussing its true essence and how to integrate it into our daily routine, from relishing a soothing cup of tea to invigorating walks. Tune in to this unforgettable episode!
To get in touch with Briana, reach out to her at betterdaystherapy.com
Disclaimer: This episode is for informational purposes only and is not a replacement for individual mental health services.
To sponsor an episode of Bodies & Souls, email us at
info@bodiessouls.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi and welcome to our podcast Bodies and.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Souls.
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Welcome everybody.
Today I am thrilled to behosting Breanna Goldberg, who is
a registered psychotherapist, aclinical director.
I believe you're studyingtowards your doctorate as well,
correct, Breanna I am.
I am, yes, Way to go.
What an amazing thing to bedoing with young kids and
(00:39):
working full-time.
It's unbelievable.
Can you tell our audience alittle bit about yourself and
how you got into the work thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
For sure, so first of all, thank you so much for
having me on this podcast.
It's a really big honor and aprivilege to be here.
I started listening to yourpodcast about a year ago, when I
decided to paint my daughter'sroom and anyone who's painted a
room knows that it's a longprocess and so I wanted to spend
my time listening to somethinginspirational.
So thank you for that, and I'vebeen listening ever since.
(01:07):
So just a little bit aboutmyself.
My name is Breanna Goldberg.
I'm a registeredpsychotherapist.
As you mentioned, I'm also theclinic director at Better Days
Counseling and Psychotherapy,which is a virtual psychotherapy
clinic in Ontario that supportsadults with a whole host of
things.
These include anxiety,depression, stress, burnout,
(01:29):
relationship concerns and griefand loss.
Aside from my work in privatepractice, I'm a wife, I'm a mom
of two precious toddlers and I'malso completing my doctorate in
clinical psychology here inToronto.
I have to say I've been prettyblessed that I've always known I
wanted to go into the field ofmental health.
While I can't remember exactlywhat precipitated it.
(01:50):
I remember having this lightbulb moment when I was about 12
or 13, and I decided I was goingto be a psychiatrist.
I think I initially gravitatedtowards psychiatry because at
the time the only avenue I knewhow to do this work was through
medicine.
But as I got a bit older and Ilearned more about the field, I
shifted my focus outside ofmedicine and decided to pursue
(02:11):
the path of becoming a clinicalpsychologist.
So from an educationalperspective, I did my
undergraduate degree in honorpsychology at York University.
And then I got married in thesummer, right after graduating,
and so, while I had my heart setout on clinical psychology, I
shifted my focus and did a twoyears master's degree in
counseling psychology at theUniversity of Ottawa while my
(02:33):
husband completed his trainingthere.
So during my master's I wasreally lucky to be able to do my
practice.
I had my Jewish family'sservices in Ottawa and I got to
work with some really incrediblesupervisors who really shaped
the way that I practiced.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I'm internally grateful for everything that
they taught me.
So after, my master's.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I registered to be a psychotherapist and I want my
own private practice and Iabsolutely love the work that I
do as a psychotherapist.
It lights me up and to me it'ssuch a privilege to just be with
people in their hard momentsand help them develop the skills
and strategies they need to bethe best version of themselves
and to feel good.
So, as you mentioned, Irecently decided to go back to
(03:10):
do my doctorate in clinicalpsychology.
It's really been an opportunityto further refine my clinical
skills and it will also allow meto make diagnoses and do
psychological assessments.
I'm very much looking forwardto that part and, even though
I'm just a few months into theprogram, it's been an incredible
learning experience and I feelreally blessed to be able to
work towards a lifelong goal ofmine.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's amazing, brianna, and I'm so excited to
hear that we have an Ottawaconnection, because I had no
idea that you lived in Ottawaand you did your studies in
Ottawa.
I obviously was in Toronto atthat point, but I have deep
roots in Ottawa.
My family still lives there andI go there often, so that's
exciting for me to hear that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, it's so funny I would hear the last name, K-Tap
, all the time.
You know you come up whether myhusband worked with your dad.
I think he worked with your dad, sometimes in the hospital or
just around the community, so itwas really exciting when we ran
into each other by chance?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, exactly, and hopefully we'll continue this
connection.
I want to dive right into ourtopic.
Today we're talking aboutwomen's mental health and coping
skills.
Women's are an especiallyrelevant topic due to the war
going on in Israel.
I have to put so much effortinto myself to stay sane, to
(04:22):
stay regulated.
I could very easily fall into apit of despair, crying and
looking at media or videos thatI shouldn't be looking at, and I
can imagine that women all overthe world are also suffering
and really trying to holdthemselves together.
So I think it would be fittingto sort of start off our session
(04:44):
with talking about women'smental health in general.
See you in the next video, anactual genre of women's mental
health.
Is women's mental healthdifferent than men's or
children's?
Is there something specific towomen and their mental health?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You know I just want to start off by saying that you
know your experience is, byknowing it's unique that a lot
of people have been finding thistime to be incredibly
challenging.
It's been a struggle, and soit's your question about whether
women's mental health is, youknow, a genre of its own.
I want to think of it as likean umbrella term that there are
so much that falls underneath it, but it's a really good way to
kind of conceptualize orunderstand kind of the overall
(05:24):
picture of what's going on.
So women's mental health issuesare really a unique area
because women face their ownchallenges specific to their
gender.
Women are more likely toexperience mental health
problems such as depression,anxiety, and these issues can be
impacted by hormonal changes,pregnancy and childbirth and
(05:45):
experiences of trauma.
But it's more than that.
I think the term has beengaining popularity in recent
years, called the mental load ofmotherhood.
The mental load refers to theinvisible and often
unacknowledged cognitive andemotional labor that's involved
in managing and organizing thesevarious aspects of life.
And so when you add a war ontop of that and the mental and
(06:06):
emotional component on top of it, it kind of just pushes people
over the edge and reallychallenges their ability to cope
and function.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So interesting.
Basically, what you'redescribing is a woman who's
already fragile, alreadyoverloaded with stresses and
pressures, and then we have thewar, which is a huge amount of
stress, and we don't want thiswoman to craft and what would be
signs of distress.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah.
So there's a lot of differentways, A lot of different signs
that may come up.
So things you may notice arechanges in sleep patterns find
yourself feeling overwhelmed orconstantly worried, having
difficulty concentrating ormaking decisions, feeling
hopeless, helpless about yourfuture.
People might also notice thatthey're withdrawn from social
situations or activities thatthey once brought them joy, and
(06:56):
also people might haveunexplained changes in appetite
or weight, and so these symptomscan be really just threatening
for a lot of individuals, andthey really impact our quality
of life, our relationships andour ability to perform at work
out at school.
I think a lot of people havebeen saying that you know, when
the war broke out, they weren'table to function anymore, that
it was really impacting theirday to day life.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And it was all consuming.
Somebody I know mentioned thatshe wasn't sleeping more than
two hours a night and I wasreally shocked because it seemed
like she was functioning andshe was managing.
She was working, communicating,running her family, running her
personal life.
And yet when she said to methat she wasn't sleeping more
than two hours, it made me stop,because it made me realize that
(07:43):
we're also masking thesesymptoms, meaning it could be
that women are not eating orsleeping.
It's a Praster, they're crying,but in public nobody would know
that.
Yeah, I think you make a reallygood point At.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Oftentimes it's hard to see that somebody's
struggling.
And let's me take the time toask and ask people how they're
doing and really kind ofgenuinely listen.
Like sometimes we see people inthe grocery store and they ask,
how are you doing?
But we're not really interestedin hearing how they're doing
and asking more about what'sgoing on for them.
But when we really take thetime to listen, you'll see that
a lot of people are struggling.
A lot of people are strugglingat baseline, and then,
(08:17):
especially, with everythinggoing on and you may not notice
if you just kind of look at thesurface, that's so uncomfortable
.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I was speaking with a friend the other day and she
said to me I look like I'm adifferent friend.
She said I look like I'm okay,but I'm not okay and I didn't
know what to respond to that.
She's telling me she's not okay.
I'm probably not close enoughto her to really help her, but
she's telling me.
She's using these words to tellme In those moments.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I think something that could be incredibly helpful
is, first of all, starting offwith thanking them for sharing
that with you, that you reallyappreciate the time and that
they're open up and tell you howthey're feeling.
But even more than that, one ofthe most powerful questions
that you can ask is how can Ibest support you?
And sometimes I will give youthe answers.
They may say I just needsomeone to listen, I just need a
(09:08):
hug, I just need X, y and Z,and oftentimes we in those
moments we feel stuck because wedon't know what to do for them,
but A just showing up and Bseeing what they need and trying
to help them in the ways thatthey do need.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I think I might have missed a cue on that one.
She said I'm not okay, and thenI was sort of at loss for words
, like I didn't know how to, soI didn't say anything.
But I probably should have saidhow can I help you, how can I
support you In retrospect?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, well, the thing with that is that, like it's
never too late, like you can goback and message this person and
say, hey, like you know, I wishI was here.
Either I wish you were signeddifferently, or I just wanted to
check back in and see howyou're doing.
You know, when I saw you, youwere having a really hard time.
How can I support you?
That it's, it's not a missedopportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Thank you, feeling a little better about that
conversation, but can we talkabout so we've discussed signs
and factors that play into awoman and their mental health
and how she might not be doingwell.
Can we focus on coping skills?
What's a great toolbox for eachand every one of us to be
(10:15):
carrying around with us so thatwe can sort of reach in and pull
out different coping mechanismsto help us navigate, to help us
wake up in the morning and tosort of get through the day?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, so I love coping skills.
I think that they are fantasticand I really agree with what
you said.
It's so important to have thisdiverse toolbox of things that
we can kind of pull out whenthings get hard.
But before we jump into that,I'm hoping we can kind of
address some of the things thatare really important to have at
the foundational level to havein place so that you know we can
, so that we can navigate hardtimes at baseline, and then we
(10:51):
can kind of go on top and addsome of those extra things.
So some of these things include, you know, establishing and
setting boundaries, prioritizingself-care, having non-goal
oriented outlets and practicingself-compassion and forgiving
ourselves for our mistakes, andso some of these things come
really simple but they can bereally hard to execute and a lot
of these things kind of lay thefoundation of how we navigate.
(11:12):
What else is going on.
So, for example, settinghealthy boundaries is really
important when we're kind oflooking at news articles or
things like that.
Being self-care is taking kindof the time and space that we
need to feel well and torecharge, and having kind of
things that kind of light us upand bring us that sense of
enjoyment.
So, as for skills andtechniques that can be used to
(11:32):
manage emotions, thoughts orbehaviors during times of strut,
anxiety or adversity, it reallycomes down to personal
preference, but what works bestfor the individual.
So each person is unique, andso something that may work for
one person may not work foranother person.
For example some people reallydon't like mindfulness, so if
you ask them to do yoga or tomeditate, it's just not going to
(11:54):
work and so for that reason Ialways recommend a variety of
skills like news for so.
Some examples of coping skillsinclude breathing exercises,
exercise or physical activity,meditation or mindfulness
practices, journaling or writing, spending time in nature,
taking support from friends andfamily, having a creative outlet
(12:15):
, such as art, music, baking,practicing relaxation techniques
like yoga or massage, or tryingout and exploring new hobbies.
My personal favorite is deepbreathing.
I absolutely love it because itcould be used anywhere at any
time.
And then there's an incrediblypowerful tool to kind of
regulate the nervous system andit's really helpful when you're
(12:36):
having those anxious thoughts orfeeling totally disregulated
and it just calms you down andyou know within even within a
few breaths but they say threeto five minutes is incredibly,
incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
The way that I'm imagining you describe these
coping skills is almost like afoundation to a house.
We need our baseline skills andthen we have our higher order
or higher level skills.
But we have to first start withour baseline skills, and that
worries me because I know Imight be lacking in some of my
(13:08):
baseline skills.
For example, you talked aboutself-care and compassion.
I'm really lousy in that area.
I don't, I'm not kind enough tomyself, I'm hard on myself and
I don't give myself leeway.
And I'm wondering if, becausethat's an area of growth for me
(13:29):
see even the way I'm trying torephrase how I talk about myself
it's an area of growth, not anarea of weakness.
I'm wondering if I'm going tohave a harder time tapping into
the other skills that youdescribe that will help me get
through these times of war andfeelings of you know, my safety
or uncertainty, feelings of fearand anxiety.
(13:51):
Am I going to struggle, is myquestion.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So I think it makes sense what you're saying.
But I just want to say that youknow it doesn't mean that you
can't tap into these other extrathings.
It doesn't mean that the copingskills won't work.
It may just mean that you knowthe war has impacted you a
little bit greater and, forexample, you may have to work a
little bit harder than somebodywho may already have some of
(14:17):
those foundational skills inplace to get to that point.
But no, by no means does thatmean that these coping skills
will not work.
They absolutely will work andthey will help you get to a
place of feeling regulated.
And once you know you get tothat place of feeling more
regulated, then maybe you'll beable to go work on some of those
deeper skills to have thatfoundation so that you're not
(14:39):
impacted as greatly by thesehard moments or better, or
better said, you're able tonavigate through these hard
moments a little bit moresuccessfully.
Thank you for your comfortingwords.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I do wonder.
I think if you ask most womenon the street about how they're
feeling about the war and whatare they doing to help
themselves, they could probablylist some of the things that you
said.
I think at this, in this dayand age mental health there's a
lot of awareness about mentalhealth and there's a lot of.
(15:12):
There's a lot of education outthere and I guess what I'm
wondering is the knowledge isstuck in our brains, but how do
we bring it down into action?
So, for example, if I know youmentioned deep breathing, that
deep breathing is so powerful,but I'm not accessing or using
that tool.
(15:32):
Or I mentioned before I knowthe boundary of not scrolling,
but at night, when I'm tired orstressed, I will start my
scrolling and start crying andreally just get myself in a bad
cycle.
So how do we get the knowledgeinto actual implementation?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I think your experience is shared by so many.
It's.
You know these skills soundeasy.
I think some of them sound veryeasy Just take them deep breath
.
But the execution of them iswhere it gets tricky and it
takes being really intentionalabout trying these out and
routinely trying in order forthem to really work.
I like to use the analogy ofgoing to the gym with these
(16:15):
coping skills.
So, for example, deep breathing, it's not going to work on the
first try, just like at the gymwe can't lift 150 pounds on day
one.
And that it takes thiscontinual practicing and trying
to implement it, you know, inorder to kind of really really
reap the full effects of it.
And that's not to say that wemay not get some effect from it
at the beginning, but it's thiscontinual process of trying to
(16:38):
integrate it and trial and error.
I always saw my clients whenthey're feeling a nine out of 10
or a 10 on a 10, they'reprobably not going to get the
same impact from these copingstrategies as they would if they
started them on a three out of10 and a four out of 10.
And so the war creates a uniquesituation because we've been
thrown into this hard time andthat we have to work even harder
for these coping strategies towork.
(16:59):
And so it takes just reallybeing really intentional and
continuously trying and thatsaying you know, if you don't
get it one night at one night,you're continuously scrolling
that doesn't mean that you can'ttry again the next minute and
it may be even just reducing it,saying let me scroll for a
little bit less time and alittle bit less time.
And I think you know when weeither work on incremental goals
(17:20):
like building up to what wewant to do so for example,
building up for self care for acertain number of days a week or
reducing our scrolling, so whenwe change kind of that
perspective, you know, we'reoften able to get a lot further
than when we say like, oh, like,it never works for me, or you
know, I always want to go for awalk but I don't, and it kind of
prevents us from even trying todo these things.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
One other thing that I found is I've had to be
selective about the people Ihang out with lately and the
groups that I'm on the WhatsAppgroups that I'm on and that is
because I'm fragile and I needto make sure that other people
are not going to drag me downinto anxiety or fear or negative
(18:03):
predictions.
And being certain that thepeople I interact with are also
trying their best to stayhealthy and are aware even if
they're not accessing, but atleast they're aware of the
different coping skills thatyou've mentioned before has been
really a good influence onmyself as well.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And I think that's a really great example of setting
those healthy boundaries.
You know for yourself that youknow it's too overwhelming to be
around certain people or toconsume certain information, and
so you said, ok, I've got tolimit it, and I think that makes
a lot of sense.
And also, when it comes to kindof trauma reactions, everyone
responds differently.
There are people who, you know,feel like they need to share
(18:48):
all this information and do theadvocacy work, and that's really
fair and that plays animportant role.
And there are other people,like myself as well, who feel
like I need to set up boundaries.
You know I can't consume allthis information, and that's OK
too.
And if there's like there's noone right leader to respond and
I feel like a lot of peoplehave- a lot of guilt about it.
Something that I've seen timeand time again are people saying
(19:09):
like I feel I'm having a hardtime striking the balance
between how much information Iconsume, what I expose myself to
, to show that I care, but alsoprotecting myself, and I think
that the balance is anindividual balance and it really
comes with checking in withourself and what we need, and it
sounds like that's exactly whatyou've done.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Another thing that I just sort of want to talk about,
because you mentioned it, isthis idea of guilt.
So as women, we always areguilty about something or the
other right.
But I think with the war now,at least for myself, the guilt
is magnified.
And it's magnified because Iwonder if I'm doing enough, if
(19:48):
I'm helping enough, if I'mreaching out enough, if I'm
doing my part in the war efforts.
And sometimes I have to tellmyself, sarah, the way that you
are being a part of the wareffort in Israel is by waking up
in the morning, getting yourkids out of bed, going to school
, running the school, creating asense of normalcy and
(20:09):
consistency and routine andsafety for my students and my
school, and that's mycontribution.
So at times I feel like maybeI'm not directly aiding the war
effort, but then, on the otherhand, I am in my own little
corner of the globe doing what Ican do.
I don't know if that'sjustifying or if that really is
(20:30):
helping with the guilt.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I just want to say that your own small corner of
the world is not a small thing.
That has tremendous impact.
People need you and they needthat environment that you're
offering, and so that is a bigpart, and I think, like you
mentioned before, guilt comes upfor everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I also experienced a lot of guilt as a result of the
war.
I remember my daughter wasgoing through her sleep
regression and I was exhaustedin the middle of the night and I
was like how, how could I feel?
How could I feel frustrated?
I have a child who's safe andwell in her bed, and so I think
guilt is a feeling that's comeup for a lot, a lot of people,
specifically related to the war.
And you're right, like wealways question, am I doing
(21:08):
enough?
I think people really need tobe mindful about what they can
and can't do, and they'll.
And if you really tune intoyourself, you'll, you'll know.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Can I jump in for a minute, actually about working
through our guilt.
So I was in Shul it was somechastara right when we heard
about the war and one of the con.
One of the members at Shuldidn't feel that it was
appropriate that we would bedancing and celebrating and she
(21:38):
felt like we should be saying tohim.
So she went over to the rabbi.
She had a really heateddiscussion and then the rabbi
got up and he made anannouncement in front of
everyone in Shul and he said theTorah is our blueprint.
So what does the Torah say?
The Torah says there's a timeto celebrate.
We need to celebrate right now.
(21:59):
We need to dance.
That's the directive, that'sour mitzvah.
Hashem doesn't want us to sitaround and simple as Torah and
weep.
There will be a time for thattoo.
But he made it very clear thatthe feeling of inadequacy or
even guilt about our dancing isnot coming from a positive place
(22:19):
.
The way that we can actuallyhelp our brothers and sisters in
Israel is by celebrating,simple as Torah, the way it
should be celebrated.
And then afterwards, obviouslythe next day, we all got
together and we said to Hulamand that was appropriate in that
time and space and Iappreciated his message because
very often it can get confusing,right, like I'm like, should I
(22:43):
be enjoying this moment?
Why should I be celebratingwhatever it is that my son's
birthday that we recently had?
Maybe I shouldn't, maybe itshould be a time of deep
depression, but I think that, asTorah Jews, we know that
depression is not gonna help usfight this war with Israel,
(23:05):
right?
Yes, it's true, we need to feelthe pain and feel the sorrow
and work with those feelingsalso.
No, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And like you're saying, like, if you feel hard
to feel like, how can I be happy, how can I celebrate?
But when we think about guilt,we need to think about if you.
Why is it telling us what isbehind it and what?
do, we do with it and gettingstuck in that guilt isn't
helpful.
And so our job, like you'resaying, at that time was to be
happy to celebrate, to do thethings that they can do and to
do our part as Jews outside ofIsrael and then figure out, okay
(23:41):
, what can I do to kind of helpthe war effort, Kind of linking
back to what you shared before,but like figuring out what your
conflict is, and it could besomething very big or it could
be something very small, buteverything is impactful, and
it's about kind of knowing whatcan I do to help and focusing on
kind of that action.
I mean, and I think there'salso time and space to process
(24:02):
our feelings and to be in ourfeeling, but the goal is to move
through our feelings and notget stuck in them.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And that is why I know that when I am watching
YouTube videos late at night, itis not healthy, cause the only
thing it does to me is it makesme cry.
So it doesn't get me galvanizedto do more things for Israel
and more mitzvahs and getinvolved in more of the amazing,
incredible organizations thatare out there.
(24:29):
Literally, I just sit there onmy couch and follow apart, yeah
yeah, you get stuck in it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's just, it's all, it's all consuming.
And I think you know there'sbeen a lot of talk with the
psychological warfare and Ithink that's what they want.
They want us to get stuck, theywant us to be afraid.
But you know, as Jewish people,you know we do when we do acts
of class and we do kindness, andyou know when we kind of focus
on what can we do, it makes usfeel less helpless and kind of
(24:57):
involved in something greaterand it connects to that sense of
unity, we united with Israeland doing our part.
And it's tough you know, we allget stuck sitting on our couch
and scrolling.
But even just noticing thatyou're doing that is key,
Because once you know that thenyou could say, okay, let me find
a coping strategy.
Let me see what I can do tokind of move through it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I'm sure that you probably are getting clients
that are coming to you verydistressed about the war in
Israel, feeling very unsafe, andI'm wondering if you have
specific mental healthstrategies related to that, or
do you give them your overalltoolbox?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So definitely there has been an increase of people
reaching out for mental healthsupport, you know, as a result
of the war, and I think a reallybig thing is just getting
people's space to feel theirfeelings, kind of like we're
talking about before, that guiltthat they have.
Or you know even things like amI doing enough?
You know, if I set theseboundaries, does it say that I
(26:00):
don't care?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Am I overreacting?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, is it is my reaction, is my response?
Does it really merit whathappened, Like maybe I wasn't
there but I'm still feeling likeI'm having PTSD-like symptoms,
and so kind of just giving thema place to acknowledge their
feelings, to have their feelingsvalidated and just to be in it
and then kind of figuring outokay, what do we do with it, how
do we move through this?
Some of that could be, you know, ensuring that they're taking
(26:22):
care of themselves.
You know, I like to say to myclients that sometimes we got to
go back to the basics.
We've got to make sure thatyou're eating well, that you're
sleeping well, that you'reexercising and that you're
engaging activities that youknow, bring you joy and that you
find relaxing, and I thinkthose extra activities are
really what got lost.
People have been spending a lotof time consuming, consuming
this information, and that therehasn't been time to do the
(26:45):
things that they like and thenbring them up.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So that's a really big one.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Another big piece is limiting exposure to media.
People are constantly tuninginto the news.
There's always something, a newupdate going on or any.
What's that message?
You know with an update or athis or a that and something
that has to set limits around it.
I know that I myself havestopped using social media
because it was too much for me,and I know that a lot of people
have done it as well.
Something I heard on the Livingin Luna podcast, which is
(27:12):
really fantastic.
The song was saying that youknow, before she checks the news
, she'll say a prayer to tellhim.
And so kind of working to kindof channel that in a different
way and seeing it as a cure, I'mgoing to do my part and I'm
going to do something, sharingthat together.
So those things have beenreally helpful for clients.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And the first suggestion I believe that you
said we're giving yourself thisspace to feel your feelings.
I remember so vividly the firstor second week of the war.
I have a psychotherapist thatactually comes to my house and
gives my kids a session.
I have really good insurancemental health insurance so she
(27:47):
gives each of my kids a sessionand I literally snatched one of
my kids sessions and I sat downin Fenver and I gave myself
permission to feel all the mixof feelings that I was feeling.
And especially I was feelingvery alone, very isolated,
(28:09):
meaning I live in a fromcommunity, I'm part of a from
community, but I also have onefoot in the secular community
because, like you, I'm studyingfor my doctorate and I was
feeling alone and isolated andbetrayed and I needed that hour
session with her to let thesefeelings pass through me.
And now I'm fine, unless I'mnot fine if I go online at night
(28:33):
.
Then I'm really not fine.
But other than that, I've cometo a level of acceptance where I
felt it it was really strong.
In fact, I remember my husbandcame home and he sees me and he
was so confused he said Ithought these sessions were for
the kids.
I'm like, I know I just neededit.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I needed a session.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
She was in the house, I just grabbed it.
But it really helped to havesomebody who sat there for that
one hour and heard me out.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And it's, you know, a lot of us have good friends or
family members who we can talkto, but we really have that 50
minutes to sit and to just beable to express what we're
feeling and to kind of just havethat space to be and where all
of our feelings are welcome andaccepted and we don't have to
filter our thoughts.
And it allows us to go throughthe process of moving through.
(29:23):
And Dr Becky is a clinicalpsychologist who I think is
really really incredible and shesays it's not feelings, it's
feeling alone in the feelings.
And so when we're able to sharethat with somebody else and
kind of get it out of our head,we're able to kind of work
through it and again, like itdoesn't change what's going on
in the world, but it shiftssomething within us and it
(29:44):
allows us to keep on going andto feel just a little bit better
.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So true, Very wise words.
I'm wondering when a woman orone of our listeners who's
listening to us we'll need totake the step of going on SSRIs
and medication, meaning she'sdoing everything she can to help
manage all of these verychallenging emotions that we've
described the anxiety, the fear,the uncertainty, trepidation,
(30:13):
the anger, the aloneness.
And yet she's still notmanaging, she's still not
clipping, Like I talked aboutthis one person who wasn't
sleeping at night, but on afront level it looked like she
was managing.
So either it's obvious thatthis woman isn't managing or
it's not obvious, but either wayit's just she's not able to get
(30:35):
through her day-to-day tasks.
So when would you say it wouldbe necessary, or isn't necessary
, to start the route ofmedication?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So for those of you who aren't familiar, so SSRI
again for selective serotonin wehave to take inhibitor and it's
essentially an Androiddepression that's prescribed for
anxiety and depression.
As a registered psychotherapist, recommending or prescribing
medication is not my scope ofpractice, and so I always
recommend that, if people arefeeling like things are just too
(31:08):
much, that my skills aren'tworking right now, or therapy,
maybe I need something inaddition to therapy, that I
always recommend that peoplereach out to their family doctor
.
They're a really, really greatresource.
There'll be somebody who's ableto kind of assess what's going
on for the individual and helpthem navigate that world of
medication and if we're gonnasay something like anxiety for
(31:30):
example, there's just differentapproaches and it depends on the
individual.
Some people, just like intherapy, will be sufficient.
They'll be able to kind ofdevelop the skills that they
need to be able to cope throughchallenging times and work
through what's going on for them.
There are other people who mayjust take medication and not do
psychotherapy, and that might besufficient for them to kind of
(31:50):
get through and navigate.
And then there are other peoplewho need a combination of
medication and psychotherapy inorder to get to a place where
they feel like they can cope andwhere they can navigate hard
times.
And so anyone who is kind ofquestioning should I, shouldn't
I speak to your doctor, there'sno harm.
They do this day in and day outand medication can be really
(32:12):
helpful for the right person.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Let's talk more about self care.
Self care.
I love self care.
What does self care mean?
Is it expensive?
Is it timely?
Is it a luxury for a womanwho's really stretched and
doesn't have a lot of resources?
Does that mean that self careis not for her?
What is it all about?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, I think you raised some really interesting
points that a lot of people feellike, you know, I'm too
overwhelmed, I don't have timefor self care.
Or self care means like bookinga massage or going on a
vacation, and they kind of justwrite it off as not something
that they can do or it's notwithin their means.
But really, self care could beanything.
It could be something as simpleas you know having your
(32:59):
favorite tea, taking a hotshower, going for a walk.
Really, it is anything thatbrings you joy and fills you up.
And so, when it comes to selfcare, I like to use the analogy
of the car.
You know, the car can'tfunction if it doesn't have any
gas.
And so, you know, we always,often times, we have this
tendency to keep pushing andpushing without giving to
ourselves, without filling upyou know our tank.
(33:20):
But it means that we're notable to kind of show up in the
way that we want for the ones,that, for the people who we want
, it means that we're often notable to show up in the way that
we want.
And so, really, self careshould be something that we do
day in and day out.
It should be a daily practice,because it is really powerful
(33:41):
for our mental health and itreally includes our overall
quality of life.
However, I recognize that for alot of people that is really
hard to do.
There are a lot of emotionsthat kind of come up when we
think about self care.
So you know, feelings of guiltabout taking time for ourselves,
difficulty, prioritizing ourneeds over the needs of others
and just like, honestly, feelingoverwhelmed by all of the
responsibilities but like how amI going to even carve out five
(34:04):
minutes of time for ourselves?
So in those cases, you know,while we should be striving for
daily, at the very least, whenyou're noticing that things are
getting hard, that you'restruggling, it's a good
indicator to ask yourself whenwas the last time that I did
some self care for myself?
And in those moments just tryone small thing, or maybe
multiple things, so really givesto yourself.
This is really essential and itis one of the most powerful
(34:26):
tools when we are feeling kindof very overwhelmed or feeling
for mental health and struggling.
You know we got to go back toour basics, and self care is a
base.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I always start to myself oh, I'm not high
maintenance, I'm sort of not oneof these women when you go to
the spa or spend money shoppingand my husband's lucky.
But then I came to realize thatI do have needs, but just not
the stereotypical needs that youmight think.
That is the definition of selfcare, Meaning give me a good
(34:58):
novel, I'm in heaven like beyond.
I'll lose myself that theequivalent of reading a good
book for me is like I don't know, going on vacation and staying
in a five star resort.
So every woman's needs aredifferent and it doesn't have to
be expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Exactly, and I know for those blithering, they can't
see your face right now, butwhen you talk about that, your
face lights up, it looks likeit's something that really
recharges you and energizes you,and so for you, that's the
definition of self care, and soit's very, very it depends on
the person, and so it's reallyimportant to kind of know
ourselves and tune into our ownneeds and not just say, oh, this
(35:40):
works for somebody else, soobviously it should work for me.
And then when you do that,sometimes we're like wondering
why is it not working?
Some people love getting theirnails done, some people hate it
and it's like one of thedentists for them, so for them
that's not self care, eventhough some people might
classify it as self care.
And another important thing toremember here is like it's also
important to have a list ofthings that you find it's
(36:04):
important to have, a list ofthings that are self care for
you.
That sometimes certain thingswon't work and you only need to
try other skills, and so it kindof goes along with the coping
strategies that we tried beforethat the key is to really just
have a diverse list of varietyof things that we can try, and
sometimes it's not gonna be thatone, it's not gonna be one
thing, it's gonna be we're gonnahave to layer on the different
(36:26):
layers of self care to kind ofhelp stabilize us and help us
feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Gosh, this conversation is so important and
relevant and timely and I thinkevery single person listening
to this is gonna come away andlikely change one part of their
life for the better.
Thank you, brianna, thank youfor giving of your expertise and
thank you for giving of yourknowledge, and I think all of us
(36:53):
really need to implement asmuch of these strategies as
possible, as many as thestrategies that you mentioned.
Is there one last thing, beforewe say goodbye, that you want
to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I think that we often have a tendency to
compare our struggles to otherpeople.
I think this is especiallyrelevant to what's going on in
the world.
For example, how could mystruggles here in Toronto, not
living in a war zone, how couldI compare to people who are in
Israel or have loved ones on thefront lines or have lost people
(37:27):
or have relatives who aremissing or kidnapped?
But I think it's reallyimportant to remember that
everyone's situation is uniqueand that we all have our own set
of circumstances and challengesthat we're facing.
While it's really hard not tocompare struggling to other
people's experiences, that it'sreally not helpful and it can
(37:48):
often lead us to minimize ourstruggles that they're not as
significant or as valid, butthey are.
What you're experiencing is realand it's important, and so we
need to be able to give thespace to what's going on for us,
so true.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Now I understand you give virtual therapy, correct?
Yeah, I offer virtualpsychotherapy.
So if our listeners want tobook a session with you or get
in touch with you, what is thebest way that they can do that
For?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
those of you looking for additional support.
You can absolutely reach out tous at the clinic and we'd be
happy to schedule you in withone of our therapists.
We offer daytime, evening andweekend availability to make
sure that everybody can find atime that works with their busy
schedule.
You can reach out to us on ourwebsite at betterdaystherapycom,
or you can send us an email atinfo at betterdaystherapycom.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Thank you so much.
Music.
Thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil'sNigan provided by Hazan David K
Tak.
We look forward to your input,feedback and suggestions.
(39:01):
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info atbodiessoulscom.
Again, info at bodiessoulscomwith two S's.
Thank you, MUSIC.
Hi and welcome to our podcast Bodies and.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Souls.
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Welcome everybody.
Today I am thrilled to behosting Breanna Goldberg, who is
a registered psychotherapist, aclinical director.
I believe you're studyingtowards your doctorate as well,
correct, Breanna I am.
I am, yes, Way to go.
What an amazing thing to bedoing with young kids and
(00:39):
working full-time.
It's unbelievable.
Can you tell our audience alittle bit about yourself and
how you got into the work thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
For sure, so first of all, thank you so much for
having me on this podcast.
It's a really big honor and aprivilege to be here.
I started listening to yourpodcast about a year ago, when I
decided to paint my daughter'sroom and anyone who's painted a
room knows that it's a longprocess and so I wanted to spend
my time listening to somethinginspirational.
So thank you for that, and I'vebeen listening ever since.
(01:07):
So just a little bit aboutmyself.
My name is Breanna Goldberg.
I'm a registeredpsychotherapist.
As you mentioned, I'm also theclinic director at Better Days
Counseling and Psychotherapy,which is a virtual psychotherapy
clinic in Ontario that supportsadults with a whole host of
things.
These include anxiety,depression, stress, burnout,
(01:29):
relationship concerns and griefand loss.
Aside from my work in privatepractice, I'm a wife, I'm a mom
of two precious toddlers and I'malso completing my doctorate in
clinical psychology here inToronto.
I have to say I've been prettyblessed that I've always known I
wanted to go into the field ofmental health.
While I can't remember exactlywhat precipitated it.
(01:50):
I remember having this lightbulb moment when I was about 12
or 13, and I decided I was goingto be a psychiatrist.
I think I initially gravitatedtowards psychiatry because at
the time the only avenue I knewhow to do this work was through
medicine.
But as I got a bit older and Ilearned more about the field, I
shifted my focus outside ofmedicine and decided to pursue
(02:11):
the path of becoming a clinicalpsychologist.
So from an educationalperspective, I did my
undergraduate degree in honorpsychology at York University.
And then I got married in thesummer, right after graduating,
and so, while I had my heart setout on clinical psychology, I
shifted my focus and did a twoyears master's degree in
counseling psychology at theUniversity of Ottawa while my
(02:33):
husband completed his trainingthere.
So during my master's I wasreally lucky to be able to do my
practice.
I had my Jewish family'sservices in Ottawa and I got to
work with some really incrediblesupervisors who really shaped
the way that I practiced.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I'm internally grateful for everything that
they taught me.
So after, my master's.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I registered to be a psychotherapist and I want my
own private practice and Iabsolutely love the work that I
do as a psychotherapist.
It lights me up and to me it'ssuch a privilege to just be with
people in their hard momentsand help them develop the skills
and strategies they need to bethe best version of themselves
and to feel good.
So, as you mentioned, Irecently decided to go back to
(03:10):
do my doctorate in clinicalpsychology.
It's really been an opportunityto further refine my clinical
skills and it will also allow meto make diagnoses and do
psychological assessments.
I'm very much looking forwardto that part and, even though
I'm just a few months into theprogram, it's been an incredible
learning experience and I feelreally blessed to be able to
work towards a lifelong goal ofmine.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's amazing, brianna, and I'm so excited to
hear that we have an Ottawaconnection, because I had no
idea that you lived in Ottawaand you did your studies in
Ottawa.
I obviously was in Toronto atthat point, but I have deep
roots in Ottawa.
My family still lives there andI go there often, so that's
exciting for me to hear that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, it's so funny I would hear the last name, K-Tap
, all the time.
You know you come up whether myhusband worked with your dad.
I think he worked with your dad, sometimes in the hospital or
just around the community, so itwas really exciting when we ran
into each other by chance?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, exactly, and hopefully we'll continue this
connection.
I want to dive right into ourtopic.
Today we're talking aboutwomen's mental health and coping
skills.
Women's are an especiallyrelevant topic due to the war
going on in Israel.
I have to put so much effortinto myself to stay sane, to
(04:22):
stay regulated.
I could very easily fall into apit of despair, crying and
looking at media or videos thatI shouldn't be looking at, and I
can imagine that women all overthe world are also suffering
and really trying to holdthemselves together.
So I think it would be fittingto sort of start off our session
(04:44):
with talking about women'smental health in general.
See you in the next video, anactual genre of women's mental
health.
Is women's mental healthdifferent than men's or
children's?
Is there something specific towomen and their mental health?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You know I just want to start off by saying that you
know your experience is, byknowing it's unique that a lot
of people have been finding thistime to be incredibly
challenging.
It's been a struggle, and soit's your question about whether
women's mental health is, youknow, a genre of its own.
I want to think of it as likean umbrella term that there are
so much that falls underneath it, but it's a really good way to
kind of conceptualize orunderstand kind of the overall
(05:24):
picture of what's going on.
So women's mental health issuesare really a unique area
because women face their ownchallenges specific to their
gender.
Women are more likely toexperience mental health
problems such as depression,anxiety, and these issues can be
impacted by hormonal changes,pregnancy and childbirth and
(05:45):
experiences of trauma.
But it's more than that.
I think the term has beengaining popularity in recent
years, called the mental load ofmotherhood.
The mental load refers to theinvisible and often
unacknowledged cognitive andemotional labor that's involved
in managing and organizing thesevarious aspects of life.
And so when you add a war ontop of that and the mental and
(06:06):
emotional component on top of it, it kind of just pushes people
over the edge and reallychallenges their ability to cope
and function.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So interesting.
Basically, what you'redescribing is a woman who's
already fragile, alreadyoverloaded with stresses and
pressures, and then we have thewar, which is a huge amount of
stress, and we don't want thiswoman to craft and what would be
signs of distress.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah.
So there's a lot of differentways, A lot of different signs
that may come up.
So things you may notice arechanges in sleep patterns find
yourself feeling overwhelmed orconstantly worried, having
difficulty concentrating ormaking decisions, feeling
hopeless, helpless about yourfuture.
People might also notice thatthey're withdrawn from social
situations or activities thatthey once brought them joy, and
(06:56):
also people might haveunexplained changes in appetite
or weight, and so these symptomscan be really just threatening
for a lot of individuals, andthey really impact our quality
of life, our relationships andour ability to perform at work
out at school.
I think a lot of people havebeen saying that you know, when
the war broke out, they weren'table to function anymore, that
it was really impacting theirday to day life.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And it was all consuming.
Somebody I know mentioned thatshe wasn't sleeping more than
two hours a night and I wasreally shocked because it seemed
like she was functioning andshe was managing.
She was working, communicating,running her family, running her
personal life.
And yet when she said to methat she wasn't sleeping more
than two hours, it made me stop,because it made me realize that
(07:43):
we're also masking thesesymptoms, meaning it could be
that women are not eating orsleeping.
It's a Praster, they're crying,but in public nobody would know
that.
Yeah, I think you make a reallygood point At.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Oftentimes it's hard to see that somebody's
struggling.
And let's me take the time toask and ask people how they're
doing and really kind ofgenuinely listen.
Like sometimes we see people inthe grocery store and they ask,
how are you doing?
But we're not really interestedin hearing how they're doing
and asking more about what'sgoing on for them.
But when we really take thetime to listen, you'll see that
a lot of people are struggling.
A lot of people are strugglingat baseline, and then,
(08:17):
especially, with everythinggoing on and you may not notice
if you just kind of look at thesurface, that's so uncomfortable
.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I was speaking with a friend the other day and she
said to me I look like I'm adifferent friend.
She said I look like I'm okay,but I'm not okay and I didn't
know what to respond to that.
She's telling me she's not okay.
I'm probably not close enoughto her to really help her, but
she's telling me.
She's using these words to tellme In those moments.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I think something that could be incredibly helpful
is, first of all, starting offwith thanking them for sharing
that with you, that you reallyappreciate the time and that
they're open up and tell you howthey're feeling.
But even more than that, one ofthe most powerful questions
that you can ask is how can Ibest support you?
And sometimes I will give youthe answers.
They may say I just needsomeone to listen, I just need a
(09:08):
hug, I just need X, y and Z,and oftentimes we in those
moments we feel stuck because wedon't know what to do for them,
but A just showing up and Bseeing what they need and trying
to help them in the ways thatthey do need.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I think I might have missed a cue on that one.
She said I'm not okay, and thenI was sort of at loss for words
, like I didn't know how to, soI didn't say anything.
But I probably should have saidhow can I help you, how can I
support you In retrospect?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, well, the thing with that is that, like it's
never too late, like you can goback and message this person and
say, hey, like you know, I wishI was here.
Either I wish you were signeddifferently, or I just wanted to
check back in and see howyou're doing.
You know, when I saw you, youwere having a really hard time.
How can I support you?
That it's, it's not a missedopportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Thank you, feeling a little better about that
conversation, but can we talkabout so we've discussed signs
and factors that play into awoman and their mental health
and how she might not be doingwell.
Can we focus on coping skills?
What's a great toolbox for eachand every one of us to be
(10:15):
carrying around with us so thatwe can sort of reach in and pull
out different coping mechanismsto help us navigate, to help us
wake up in the morning and tosort of get through the day?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, so I love coping skills.
I think that they are fantasticand I really agree with what
you said.
It's so important to have thisdiverse toolbox of things that
we can kind of pull out whenthings get hard.
But before we jump into that,I'm hoping we can kind of
address some of the things thatare really important to have at
the foundational level to havein place so that you know we can
, so that we can navigate hardtimes at baseline, and then we
(10:51):
can kind of go on top and addsome of those extra things.
So some of these things include, you know, establishing and
setting boundaries, prioritizingself-care, having non-goal
oriented outlets and practicingself-compassion and forgiving
ourselves for our mistakes, andso some of these things come
really simple but they can bereally hard to execute and a lot
of these things kind of lay thefoundation of how we navigate.
(11:12):
What else is going on.
So, for example, settinghealthy boundaries is really
important when we're kind oflooking at news articles or
things like that.
Being self-care is taking kindof the time and space that we
need to feel well and torecharge, and having kind of
things that kind of light us upand bring us that sense of
enjoyment.
So, as for skills andtechniques that can be used to
(11:32):
manage emotions, thoughts orbehaviors during times of strut,
anxiety or adversity, it reallycomes down to personal
preference, but what works bestfor the individual.
So each person is unique, andso something that may work for
one person may not work foranother person.
For example some people reallydon't like mindfulness, so if
you ask them to do yoga or tomeditate, it's just not going to
(11:54):
work and so for that reason Ialways recommend a variety of
skills like news for so.
Some examples of coping skillsinclude breathing exercises,
exercise or physical activity,meditation or mindfulness
practices, journaling or writing, spending time in nature,
taking support from friends andfamily, having a creative outlet
(12:15):
, such as art, music, baking,practicing relaxation techniques
like yoga or massage, or tryingout and exploring new hobbies.
My personal favorite is deepbreathing.
I absolutely love it because itcould be used anywhere at any
time.
And then there's an incrediblypowerful tool to kind of
regulate the nervous system andit's really helpful when you're
(12:36):
having those anxious thoughts orfeeling totally disregulated
and it just calms you down andyou know within even within a
few breaths but they say threeto five minutes is incredibly,
incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
The way that I'm imagining you describe these
coping skills is almost like afoundation to a house.
We need our baseline skills andthen we have our higher order
or higher level skills.
But we have to first start withour baseline skills, and that
worries me because I know Imight be lacking in some of my
(13:08):
baseline skills.
For example, you talked aboutself-care and compassion.
I'm really lousy in that area.
I don't, I'm not kind enough tomyself, I'm hard on myself and
I don't give myself leeway.
And I'm wondering if, becausethat's an area of growth for me
(13:29):
see even the way I'm trying torephrase how I talk about myself
it's an area of growth, not anarea of weakness.
I'm wondering if I'm going tohave a harder time tapping into
the other skills that youdescribe that will help me get
through these times of war andfeelings of you know, my safety
or uncertainty, feelings of fearand anxiety.
(13:51):
Am I going to struggle, is myquestion.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So I think it makes sense what you're saying.
But I just want to say that youknow it doesn't mean that you
can't tap into these other extrathings.
It doesn't mean that the copingskills won't work.
It may just mean that you knowthe war has impacted you a
little bit greater and, forexample, you may have to work a
little bit harder than somebodywho may already have some of
(14:17):
those foundational skills inplace to get to that point.
But no, by no means does thatmean that these coping skills
will not work.
They absolutely will work andthey will help you get to a
place of feeling regulated.
And once you know you get tothat place of feeling more
regulated, then maybe you'll beable to go work on some of those
deeper skills to have thatfoundation so that you're not
(14:39):
impacted as greatly by thesehard moments or better, or
better said, you're able tonavigate through these hard
moments a little bit moresuccessfully.
Thank you for your comfortingwords.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I do wonder.
I think if you ask most womenon the street about how they're
feeling about the war and whatare they doing to help
themselves, they could probablylist some of the things that you
said.
I think at this, in this dayand age mental health there's a
lot of awareness about mentalhealth and there's a lot of.
(15:12):
There's a lot of education outthere and I guess what I'm
wondering is the knowledge isstuck in our brains, but how do
we bring it down into action?
So, for example, if I know youmentioned deep breathing, that
deep breathing is so powerful,but I'm not accessing or using
that tool.
(15:32):
Or I mentioned before I knowthe boundary of not scrolling,
but at night, when I'm tired orstressed, I will start my
scrolling and start crying andreally just get myself in a bad
cycle.
So how do we get the knowledgeinto actual implementation?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I think your experience is shared by so many.
It's.
You know these skills soundeasy.
I think some of them sound veryeasy Just take them deep breath
.
But the execution of them iswhere it gets tricky and it
takes being really intentionalabout trying these out and
routinely trying in order forthem to really work.
I like to use the analogy ofgoing to the gym with these
(16:15):
coping skills.
So, for example, deep breathing, it's not going to work on the
first try, just like at the gymwe can't lift 150 pounds on day
one.
And that it takes thiscontinual practicing and trying
to implement it, you know, inorder to kind of really really
reap the full effects of it.
And that's not to say that wemay not get some effect from it
at the beginning, but it's thiscontinual process of trying to
(16:38):
integrate it and trial and error.
I always saw my clients whenthey're feeling a nine out of 10
or a 10 on a 10, they'reprobably not going to get the
same impact from these copingstrategies as they would if they
started them on a three out of10 and a four out of 10.
And so the war creates a uniquesituation because we've been
thrown into this hard time andthat we have to work even harder
for these coping strategies towork.
(16:59):
And so it takes just reallybeing really intentional and
continuously trying and thatsaying you know, if you don't
get it one night at one night,you're continuously scrolling
that doesn't mean that you can'ttry again the next minute and
it may be even just reducing it,saying let me scroll for a
little bit less time and alittle bit less time.
And I think you know when weeither work on incremental goals
(17:20):
like building up to what wewant to do so for example,
building up for self care for acertain number of days a week or
reducing our scrolling, so whenwe change kind of that
perspective, you know, we'reoften able to get a lot further
than when we say like, oh, like,it never works for me, or you
know, I always want to go for awalk but I don't, and it kind of
prevents us from even trying todo these things.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
One other thing that I found is I've had to be
selective about the people Ihang out with lately and the
groups that I'm on the WhatsAppgroups that I'm on and that is
because I'm fragile and I needto make sure that other people
are not going to drag me downinto anxiety or fear or negative
(18:03):
predictions.
And being certain that thepeople I interact with are also
trying their best to stayhealthy and are aware even if
they're not accessing, but atleast they're aware of the
different coping skills thatyou've mentioned before has been
really a good influence onmyself as well.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And I think that's a really great example of setting
those healthy boundaries.
You know for yourself that youknow it's too overwhelming to be
around certain people or toconsume certain information, and
so you said, ok, I've got tolimit it, and I think that makes
a lot of sense.
And also, when it comes to kindof trauma reactions, everyone
responds differently.
There are people who, you know,feel like they need to share
(18:48):
all this information and do theadvocacy work, and that's really
fair and that plays animportant role.
And there are other people,like myself as well, who feel
like I need to set up boundaries.
You know I can't consume allthis information, and that's OK
too.
And if there's like there's noone right leader to respond and
I feel like a lot of peoplehave- a lot of guilt about it.
Something that I've seen timeand time again are people saying
(19:09):
like I feel I'm having a hardtime striking the balance
between how much information Iconsume, what I expose myself to
, to show that I care, but alsoprotecting myself, and I think
that the balance is anindividual balance and it really
comes with checking in withourself and what we need, and it
sounds like that's exactly whatyou've done.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Another thing that I just sort of want to talk about,
because you mentioned it, isthis idea of guilt.
So as women, we always areguilty about something or the
other right.
But I think with the war now,at least for myself, the guilt
is magnified.
And it's magnified because Iwonder if I'm doing enough, if
(19:48):
I'm helping enough, if I'mreaching out enough, if I'm
doing my part in the war efforts.
And sometimes I have to tellmyself, sarah, the way that you
are being a part of the wareffort in Israel is by waking up
in the morning, getting yourkids out of bed, going to school
, running the school, creating asense of normalcy and
(20:09):
consistency and routine andsafety for my students and my
school, and that's mycontribution.
So at times I feel like maybeI'm not directly aiding the war
effort, but then, on the otherhand, I am in my own little
corner of the globe doing what Ican do.
I don't know if that'sjustifying or if that really is
(20:30):
helping with the guilt.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I just want to say that your own small corner of
the world is not a small thing.
That has tremendous impact.
People need you and they needthat environment that you're
offering, and so that is a bigpart, and I think, like you
mentioned before, guilt comes upfor everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I also experienced a lot of guilt as a result of the
war.
I remember my daughter wasgoing through her sleep
regression and I was exhaustedin the middle of the night and I
was like how, how could I feel?
How could I feel frustrated?
I have a child who's safe andwell in her bed, and so I think
guilt is a feeling that's comeup for a lot, a lot of people,
specifically related to the war.
And you're right, like wealways question, am I doing
(21:08):
enough?
I think people really need tobe mindful about what they can
and can't do, and they'll.
And if you really tune intoyourself, you'll, you'll know.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Can I jump in for a minute, actually about working
through our guilt.
So I was in Shul it was somechastara right when we heard
about the war and one of the con.
One of the members at Shuldidn't feel that it was
appropriate that we would bedancing and celebrating and she
(21:38):
felt like we should be saying tohim.
So she went over to the rabbi.
She had a really heateddiscussion and then the rabbi
got up and he made anannouncement in front of
everyone in Shul and he said theTorah is our blueprint.
So what does the Torah say?
The Torah says there's a timeto celebrate.
We need to celebrate right now.
(21:59):
We need to dance.
That's the directive, that'sour mitzvah.
Hashem doesn't want us to sitaround and simple as Torah and
weep.
There will be a time for thattoo.
But he made it very clear thatthe feeling of inadequacy or
even guilt about our dancing isnot coming from a positive place
(22:19):
.
The way that we can actuallyhelp our brothers and sisters in
Israel is by celebrating,simple as Torah, the way it
should be celebrated.
And then afterwards, obviouslythe next day, we all got
together and we said to Hulamand that was appropriate in that
time and space and Iappreciated his message because
very often it can get confusing,right, like I'm like, should I
(22:43):
be enjoying this moment?
Why should I be celebratingwhatever it is that my son's
birthday that we recently had?
Maybe I shouldn't, maybe itshould be a time of deep
depression, but I think that, asTorah Jews, we know that
depression is not gonna help usfight this war with Israel,
(23:05):
right?
Yes, it's true, we need to feelthe pain and feel the sorrow
and work with those feelingsalso.
No, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And like you're saying, like, if you feel hard
to feel like, how can I be happy, how can I celebrate?
But when we think about guilt,we need to think about if you.
Why is it telling us what isbehind it and what?
do, we do with it and gettingstuck in that guilt isn't
helpful.
And so our job, like you'resaying, at that time was to be
happy to celebrate, to do thethings that they can do and to
do our part as Jews outside ofIsrael and then figure out, okay
(23:41):
, what can I do to kind of helpthe war effort, Kind of linking
back to what you shared before,but like figuring out what your
conflict is, and it could besomething very big or it could
be something very small, buteverything is impactful, and
it's about kind of knowing whatcan I do to help and focusing on
kind of that action.
I mean, and I think there'salso time and space to process
(24:02):
our feelings and to be in ourfeeling, but the goal is to move
through our feelings and notget stuck in them.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And that is why I know that when I am watching
YouTube videos late at night, itis not healthy, cause the only
thing it does to me is it makesme cry.
So it doesn't get me galvanizedto do more things for Israel
and more mitzvahs and getinvolved in more of the amazing,
incredible organizations thatare out there.
(24:29):
Literally, I just sit there onmy couch and follow apart, yeah
yeah, you get stuck in it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's just, it's all, it's all consuming.
And I think you know there'sbeen a lot of talk with the
psychological warfare and Ithink that's what they want.
They want us to get stuck, theywant us to be afraid.
But you know, as Jewish people,you know we do when we do acts
of class and we do kindness, andyou know when we kind of focus
on what can we do, it makes usfeel less helpless and kind of
(24:57):
involved in something greaterand it connects to that sense of
unity, we united with Israeland doing our part.
And it's tough you know, we allget stuck sitting on our couch
and scrolling.
But even just noticing thatyou're doing that is key,
Because once you know that thenyou could say, okay, let me find
a coping strategy.
Let me see what I can do tokind of move through it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I'm sure that you probably are getting clients
that are coming to you verydistressed about the war in
Israel, feeling very unsafe, andI'm wondering if you have
specific mental healthstrategies related to that, or
do you give them your overalltoolbox?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So definitely there has been an increase of people
reaching out for mental healthsupport, you know, as a result
of the war, and I think a reallybig thing is just getting
people's space to feel theirfeelings, kind of like we're
talking about before, that guiltthat they have.
Or you know even things like amI doing enough?
You know, if I set theseboundaries, does it say that I
(26:00):
don't care?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Am I overreacting?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, is it is my reaction, is my response?
Does it really merit whathappened, Like maybe I wasn't
there but I'm still feeling likeI'm having PTSD-like symptoms,
and so kind of just giving thema place to acknowledge their
feelings, to have their feelingsvalidated and just to be in it
and then kind of figuring outokay, what do we do with it, how
do we move through this?
Some of that could be, you know, ensuring that they're taking
(26:22):
care of themselves.
You know, I like to say to myclients that sometimes we got to
go back to the basics.
We've got to make sure thatyou're eating well, that you're
sleeping well, that you'reexercising and that you're
engaging activities that youknow, bring you joy and that you
find relaxing, and I thinkthose extra activities are
really what got lost.
People have been spending a lotof time consuming, consuming
this information, and that therehasn't been time to do the
(26:45):
things that they like and thenbring them up.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So that's a really big one.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Another big piece is limiting exposure to media.
People are constantly tuninginto the news.
There's always something, a newupdate going on or any.
What's that message?
You know with an update or athis or a that and something
that has to set limits around it.
I know that I myself havestopped using social media
because it was too much for me,and I know that a lot of people
have done it as well.
Something I heard on the Livingin Luna podcast, which is
(27:12):
really fantastic.
The song was saying that youknow, before she checks the news
, she'll say a prayer to tellhim.
And so kind of working to kindof channel that in a different
way and seeing it as a cure, I'mgoing to do my part and I'm
going to do something, sharingthat together.
So those things have beenreally helpful for clients.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And the first suggestion I believe that you
said we're giving yourself thisspace to feel your feelings.
I remember so vividly the firstor second week of the war.
I have a psychotherapist thatactually comes to my house and
gives my kids a session.
I have really good insurancemental health insurance so she
(27:47):
gives each of my kids a sessionand I literally snatched one of
my kids sessions and I sat downin Fenver and I gave myself
permission to feel all the mixof feelings that I was feeling.
And especially I was feelingvery alone, very isolated,
(28:09):
meaning I live in a fromcommunity, I'm part of a from
community, but I also have onefoot in the secular community
because, like you, I'm studyingfor my doctorate and I was
feeling alone and isolated andbetrayed and I needed that hour
session with her to let thesefeelings pass through me.
And now I'm fine, unless I'mnot fine if I go online at night
(28:33):
.
Then I'm really not fine.
But other than that, I've cometo a level of acceptance where I
felt it it was really strong.
In fact, I remember my husbandcame home and he sees me and he
was so confused he said Ithought these sessions were for
the kids.
I'm like, I know I just neededit.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I needed a session.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
She was in the house, I just grabbed it.
But it really helped to havesomebody who sat there for that
one hour and heard me out.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And it's, you know, a lot of us have good friends or
family members who we can talkto, but we really have that 50
minutes to sit and to just beable to express what we're
feeling and to kind of just havethat space to be and where all
of our feelings are welcome andaccepted and we don't have to
filter our thoughts.
And it allows us to go throughthe process of moving through.
(29:23):
And Dr Becky is a clinicalpsychologist who I think is
really really incredible and shesays it's not feelings, it's
feeling alone in the feelings.
And so when we're able to sharethat with somebody else and
kind of get it out of our head,we're able to kind of work
through it and again, like itdoesn't change what's going on
in the world, but it shiftssomething within us and it
(29:44):
allows us to keep on going andto feel just a little bit better
.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
So true, Very wise words.
I'm wondering when a woman orone of our listeners who's
listening to us we'll need totake the step of going on SSRIs
and medication, meaning she'sdoing everything she can to help
manage all of these verychallenging emotions that we've
described the anxiety, the fear,the uncertainty, trepidation,
(30:13):
the anger, the aloneness.
And yet she's still notmanaging, she's still not
clipping, Like I talked aboutthis one person who wasn't
sleeping at night, but on afront level it looked like she
was managing.
So either it's obvious thatthis woman isn't managing or
it's not obvious, but either wayit's just she's not able to get
(30:35):
through her day-to-day tasks.
So when would you say it wouldbe necessary, or isn't necessary
, to start the route ofmedication?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So for those of you who aren't familiar, so SSRI
again for selective serotonin wehave to take inhibitor and it's
essentially an Androiddepression that's prescribed for
anxiety and depression.
As a registered psychotherapist, recommending or prescribing
medication is not my scope ofpractice, and so I always
recommend that, if people arefeeling like things are just too
(31:08):
much, that my skills aren'tworking right now, or therapy,
maybe I need something inaddition to therapy, that I
always recommend that peoplereach out to their family doctor
.
They're a really, really greatresource.
There'll be somebody who's ableto kind of assess what's going
on for the individual and helpthem navigate that world of
medication and if we're gonnasay something like anxiety for
(31:30):
example, there's just differentapproaches and it depends on the
individual.
Some people, just like intherapy, will be sufficient.
They'll be able to kind ofdevelop the skills that they
need to be able to cope throughchallenging times and work
through what's going on for them.
There are other people who mayjust take medication and not do
psychotherapy, and that might besufficient for them to kind of
(31:50):
get through and navigate.
And then there are other peoplewho need a combination of
medication and psychotherapy inorder to get to a place where
they feel like they can cope andwhere they can navigate hard
times.
And so anyone who is kind ofquestioning should I, shouldn't
I speak to your doctor, there'sno harm.
They do this day in and day outand medication can be really
(32:12):
helpful for the right person.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Let's talk more about self care.
Self care.
I love self care.
What does self care mean?
Is it expensive?
Is it timely?
Is it a luxury for a womanwho's really stretched and
doesn't have a lot of resources?
Does that mean that self careis not for her?
What is it all about?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, I think you raised some really interesting
points that a lot of people feellike, you know, I'm too
overwhelmed, I don't have timefor self care.
Or self care means like bookinga massage or going on a
vacation, and they kind of justwrite it off as not something
that they can do or it's notwithin their means.
But really, self care could beanything.
It could be something as simpleas you know having your
(32:59):
favorite tea, taking a hotshower, going for a walk.
Really, it is anything thatbrings you joy and fills you up.
And so, when it comes to selfcare, I like to use the analogy
of the car.
You know, the car can'tfunction if it doesn't have any
gas.
And so, you know, we always,often times, we have this
tendency to keep pushing andpushing without giving to
ourselves, without filling upyou know our tank.
(33:20):
But it means that we're notable to kind of show up in the
way that we want for the ones,that, for the people who we want
, it means that we're often notable to show up in the way that
we want.
And so, really, self careshould be something that we do
day in and day out.
It should be a daily practice,because it is really powerful
(33:41):
for our mental health and itreally includes our overall
quality of life.
However, I recognize that for alot of people that is really
hard to do.
There are a lot of emotionsthat kind of come up when we
think about self care.
So you know, feelings of guiltabout taking time for ourselves,
difficulty, prioritizing ourneeds over the needs of others
and just like, honestly, feelingoverwhelmed by all of the
responsibilities but like how amI going to even carve out five
(34:04):
minutes of time for ourselves?
So in those cases, you know,while we should be striving for
daily, at the very least, whenyou're noticing that things are
getting hard, that you'restruggling, it's a good
indicator to ask yourself whenwas the last time that I did
some self care for myself?
And in those moments just tryone small thing, or maybe
multiple things, so really givesto yourself.
This is really essential and itis one of the most powerful
(34:26):
tools when we are feeling kindof very overwhelmed or feeling
for mental health and struggling.
You know we got to go back toour basics, and self care is a
base.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I always start to myself oh, I'm not high
maintenance, I'm sort of not oneof these women when you go to
the spa or spend money shoppingand my husband's lucky.
But then I came to realize thatI do have needs, but just not
the stereotypical needs that youmight think.
That is the definition of selfcare, Meaning give me a good
(34:58):
novel, I'm in heaven like beyond.
I'll lose myself that theequivalent of reading a good
book for me is like I don't know, going on vacation and staying
in a five star resort.
So every woman's needs aredifferent and it doesn't have to
be expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Exactly, and I know for those blithering, they can't
see your face right now, butwhen you talk about that, your
face lights up, it looks likeit's something that really
recharges you and energizes you,and so for you, that's the
definition of self care, and soit's very, very it depends on
the person, and so it's reallyimportant to kind of know
ourselves and tune into our ownneeds and not just say, oh, this
(35:40):
works for somebody else, soobviously it should work for me.
And then when you do that,sometimes we're like wondering
why is it not working?
Some people love getting theirnails done, some people hate it
and it's like one of thedentists for them, so for them
that's not self care, eventhough some people might
classify it as self care.
And another important thing toremember here is like it's also
important to have a list ofthings that you find it's
(36:04):
important to have, a list ofthings that are self care for
you.
That sometimes certain thingswon't work and you only need to
try other skills, and so it kindof goes along with the coping
strategies that we tried beforethat the key is to really just
have a diverse list of varietyof things that we can try, and
sometimes it's not gonna be thatone, it's not gonna be one
thing, it's gonna be we're gonnahave to layer on the different
(36:26):
layers of self care to kind ofhelp stabilize us and help us
feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Gosh, this conversation is so important and
relevant and timely and I thinkevery single person listening
to this is gonna come away andlikely change one part of their
life for the better.
Thank you, brianna, thank youfor giving of your expertise and
thank you for giving of yourknowledge, and I think all of us
(36:53):
really need to implement asmuch of these strategies as
possible, as many as thestrategies that you mentioned.
Is there one last thing, beforewe say goodbye, that you want
to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I think that we often have a tendency to
compare our struggles to otherpeople.
I think this is especiallyrelevant to what's going on in
the world.
For example, how could mystruggles here in Toronto, not
living in a war zone, how couldI compare to people who are in
Israel or have loved ones on thefront lines or have lost people
(37:27):
or have relatives who aremissing or kidnapped?
But I think it's reallyimportant to remember that
everyone's situation is uniqueand that we all have our own set
of circumstances and challengesthat we're facing.
While it's really hard not tocompare struggling to other
people's experiences, that it'sreally not helpful and it can
(37:48):
often lead us to minimize ourstruggles that they're not as
significant or as valid, butthey are.
What you're experiencing is realand it's important, and so we
need to be able to give thespace to what's going on for us,
so true.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Now I understand you give virtual therapy, correct?
Yeah, I offer virtualpsychotherapy.
So if our listeners want tobook a session with you or get
in touch with you, what is thebest way that they can do that
For?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
those of you looking for additional support.
You can absolutely reach out tous at the clinic and we'd be
happy to schedule you in withone of our therapists.
We offer daytime, evening andweekend availability to make
sure that everybody can find atime that works with their busy
schedule.
You can reach out to us on ourwebsite at betterdaystherapycom,
or you can send us an email atinfo at betterdaystherapycom.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Thank you so much.
Music.
Thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil'sNigan provided by Hazan David K
Tak.
We look forward to your input,feedback and suggestions.
(39:01):
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info atbodiessoulscom.
Again, info at bodiessoulscomwith two S's.
Thank you, MUSIC.
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