April 10, 2024 • 52 mins
Have you ever felt the Pesach prep pressure weighing down on you, transforming what should be a season of spiritual renewal into a marathon of stress? Join Rivky Boyarsky, and the ever-insightful Malki Janowski, as we share stories and strategies for turning the tide and claiming back the joy of Yom Tov in our latest episode. Together, we discuss our attitudes towards holiday preparations, and how these can influence not only our own experiences but also those of the next generation.
We tackle the real challenges of juggling the demands of Pesach with little ones in tow, and offer support to keep you connected amidst the bustling. We explore the fine line parents walk when involving teenagers in holiday tasks, balancing the load while instilling a sense of responsibility. And, we acknowledge the beauty in letting go of the perfect Pesach blueprint. Whether you're a mother stepping away from the Seder to tend to a child or have a teenager home and are balancing the expectation of helping out with enjoying vacation, we emphasize the freedom that comes with embracing Pesach as it comes. So, pour a cup of something comforting, settle in, and let's rediscover the heart of Pesach together.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning and welcome to Bodies and Souls, the
space in which you hearauthentic conversations from
real Jewish women talking abouttopics that are relevant to you.
You're going to walk away fromour conversation today inspired,
connected and feeling uplifted.
Today we have Malki Janowskiwith us.
Malki is going to talk to usabout getting ready for the
Seder, what Pesach prep lookslike whether you have teens or
(00:25):
children, how to not feelstretched or stressed and really
, how do we come to the tablenot feeling absolutely at our
capacity emotionally, physicallyand even spiritually.
We're going to kind of meanderthrough this conversation
because Malki and I are oldfriends and we're going to bring
you into our conversation andour journey to get to where we
(00:46):
are today and hopefully you'regoing to enjoy your Pesach preps
just a little bit more.
So, without further ado, hereis Malki.
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarsky.
So I actually have a very good,very old we just discussed how
(01:07):
old we are friend Malki Janowskihere with me all the way from
Florida.
So for those of you who don'tknow Malki, malki is on Shluchas
in Coral Springs and she is theprincipal of the high school
there.
Malki, before we start, can youtell us a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I think you just sounded up at a nutshell.
I grew up on Shulchas here andwas very happy and privileged to
be able to move back here.
On Shulchas, I'm the principalof Wurabit Z'chaya Academy,
which is a Lubavitch girls' highschool.
I love my role as a Mekhanichasand as a wife, as a mother, as
a mkhanichas and as a wife, as amother, as a shlacha, and you
(01:47):
were asking before, or youmentioned before, things you're
passionate about.
I'm passionate about all thosethings.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So I love that and that's basically what we do here
is talk to women about whatthey're passionate about.
So Purim's behind us and we'reheading towards Pesach.
In a lot of homes that meansthat we are entering like the
stressful time of the year whereyou know there's panic and you
know some people you know mighthave even like a different set
of clothes that their toddlersare wearing in the kitchen and
you know, like there's thiswhole like panic.
It happens to be that Pesach isone of my favorite holidays and
(02:20):
I think it's my one of myfavorite Yom Tavim really, cause
it's in the spring.
And I think it's one of myfavorite Yom Tavim really
because it's in the spring andI'm like I become like as I age,
I've become like a flower thatwilts.
I mean, you don't know this inFlorida, but those of us in the
Northeast we wilt every singlewinter and then we like come
back to life every spring.
So I think there's a part of it.
That's that.
But also like Pesach was neverthis hugely stressful thing when
I was growing up.
(02:40):
So I think where I'd like thisconversation to begin is with
the stress of what you know alot of homes go through in
preparation for Pesach.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So you mentioned that Pesach was not stressful for
you growing up.
Me as well, I do think.
Something that I always I'vecome to realize as an adult is
that my mother loved Yom Tithand I love Yom Tith and I really
feel that I got that from herand I, you know, looking back,
she had so much to do.
Yom Tif was, if you want tothink of it this way, such a
(03:11):
physical burden on her as it isfor many of us as Jewish women,
and she just never portrayedthat.
She always spoke about Yom Tifwith joy.
She, you know, would be excitedabout cooking whatever
(03:31):
different foods if you know,they were individual to each
young diff and I I took that asit is in my hands also to
transmit that feeling aboutyoung diff that if I, as the
mother, transmit like a stressedsense, uh, or, you know, just
feelings of like this is so hard, we have to do this every year,
then that that would beterrible.
I'm cheating my children out ofthe joy of youngom tov.
So I I really that's somethingI try very consciously to be to
be open about how much I loveyom tov, how excited I am.
I think that that is soimportant to to just to share
(03:55):
the joy of yom tov because,barak hashem, we're so lucky to
have all these days in our livesand a calendar that has these
seasons where there's justthere's amazing things going on,
especially, by the way, if youlook at Hasidus.
Yom Tov is so much more than aday, like there's an actual
season.
You mentioned the seasons whichwe don't have so much of in
Florida.
We have like hot and not so hot.
(04:17):
That's pretty much it.
But when you talk about seasons, when it's winter or winter
starts coming and you startpulling out your winter clothes
and the sweaters and you turn onthe heat, you're like living
with the time.
And then when spring starts andthere's that rebirth and you
can stop wearing the heavy coatand you're just wearing the
jacket, you know and and youturn off the heaters and you
open your windows, you're livingwith the time.
So the um typing and facilitiesare seasons where there is a
(04:39):
reality going on and it's soeasy to get lost in the physical
tasks, especially if you don'tparticularly enjoy it, but if we
can keep in mind, there's aworld of revelation, of
kheikhais, of amazing spiritualenergy going on.
It's just we live life on anentirely different plane.
It's really an amazing thing,so I think we should approach
(05:02):
Pesach with joy.
That's in a nutshell.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I have two thoughts.
First of all, as you weretalking, you're like, oh, I also
didn't grow up with the stressI'm thinking like even the
example I gave my mother when wewere toddlers she would like
literally wipe us down as wewere leaving, but it wasn't
stressful, it was so funny andit was so fun.
And I think that that's thepart like you might be doing all
those things that cause someoneelse stress, but it was like it
was, it was almost like a game.
(05:25):
So I think it's the attitudethat's so important that, yes,
you could be like literallywiping down the windows on both
sides and doing your springcleaning with your pace off, but
it's the mindset and theattitude that really is what
you're saying is the difference.
So I think that's veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's funny that you're saying that.
Last night I told my kids atsupper okay, we're in
pay-to-stop mode, guys.
That means what do we do beforewe leave the table?
(06:00):
And they all know it already wedo the pay-to-stop dance.
The pay-to-stop dance is beforeyou leave the table, you shake
yourself off and when the yetshe's like just sort of figuring
it out and they're like made acircle and they started dancing.
I videoed it because it was socute, but they were so happy to
do this.
You know, brush off the crumbsand, yes, it could be so
stressful.
If you're like stressed aboutit, oh, my goodness, she already
stuck to your foot.
Or it can be this like big gameand thing where we do a
(06:22):
face-off dance game and thingwhere we do a Pesach dance.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's so funny how those examples just align so
perfectly.
So I want to go back to anotherthing you said.
You said seasons, right, yousaid it's a whole season and
there's chassidus behind themeaning of the season.
So what is Pesach all about?
Like what's the season and theyou know the flavor to the time
that we're in.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So Pesach Baruch Yis is about Yitzchak Mitzrayim
leaving your omens, which areboundaries?
There are boundaries that areself-imposed.
You know, we think we can onlyaccomplish X.
We can't do Y and Z.
We think that we're not goodenough for whatever other
possibilities there might be inlife.
There are boundaries that areexternally imposed and the idea
(07:02):
of Pesach is that we're justlike the Yidin left since Ryan.
They were able to breakboundaries that were really not
breakable.
You couldn't leave, but theydid that.
We're really able to step outof that and we can do things
that we didn't think that wecould do.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So the season of spring is breaking out of the
boundaries of winter and goinginto a new reality, like a
rebirth of who we are and whatwe think we're capable of.
Yes, okay, I love that.
I love that and I feel likemaybe we need to give our kids
you know this this energy everyonce in a while.
So maybe this would be like theperfect time to be like okay,
(07:36):
you guys, we can do this, we canget into a new space of being.
So let's talk a little bit onthe physical side, because we've
just kind of touched on thespirituality of it Planning for
Pesach.
So how does a mother and I thinkthat this is actually unique to
our particular age, mine andyours, where we have older kids
and little kids and we're kindof straddling this, you know,
(07:58):
different space.
So I want to break it down intotwo parts.
So I want to kind of speak toour younger moms first and then
speak to the people who are moreour age and I remember, as a
younger mom, like doing Pesachwas a lot of details, right,
there was a lot of just we'reputting one foot in front of the
other and we're just gettingthrough the day.
So I want to talk about how dowe make Pesach enjoyable and
(08:21):
doable when you have maybe threekids under the age of four or a
lot of little little kids inthe house and I'm sure you
remember this as well as I dothat it is a whole to-do when
they're all really little andyou don't even have extra hands
to help around.
There's just a lot of extrapeople.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, it is hard.
I think that, first of all,just acknowledging that this is
a part of, I guess, the journeythat we have as jewish women and
there's like a sisterhood here.
You'll always find somebody tocommiserate with you, find
another mom who is in more orless the same stage and same
boat and have like a good, youknow, kvetch fest together
(08:59):
intentionally and enjoy it.
And then, if that is, for somepeople it doesn't help.
But if that's energizing foryou, then go for it, but do it
with the mindset of likelaughing at yourself versus
actually like wallowing in thedifficulty you know it's a funny
story and tell yourself you'regoing to look back in five years
or 10 years, however long it is, and laugh, take pictures.
(09:20):
You know, if your kids uh,schmear diaper cream all over
the wall and that stuff is sohard to get off, or empty a
dozen eggs onto the floor orwhatever it is they've gotten up
to, you will laugh about it oneday.
And if you could just channelthat and laugh right now and
take a picture because you wantto have evidence when you laugh
(09:41):
about it one day, or when youshow them when they're 16, like,
like, remember that and you cankind of tap into a leader
energy and adopt it.
Now say that's really funny,also very difficult, but really
funny.
I also think that it's justhelpful to bear in mind our own,
what is our own capacity.
Do what you can do.
(10:02):
Just like a small example, onething that I find important to
make but time consuming to makeis pea soft lukshan, like those
very, very thin head noodles.
I just think it looks like eggs.
It takes a lot of time and Ihave memories of watching my
grandmother do it and I was likein trance, like she would pick
it up with her bare fingers andflip it over and I wanted to do
it, but it's, it's a pretty timeconsuming thing and it involves
standing for a lot of time overthe stove.
(10:23):
When my kids were small Ididn't make them because I just
didn't have time, and nowthey're bigger and if they're
able to help more, I do havetime to make them and that's
okay.
You know, when you can do it,you can do it, and when you
can't do it, you can't do it.
So the, the just recognizinglike what makes sense for me now
, I feel like, is a veryimportant thing.
And keeping, just keeping asense of equilibrium and
(10:44):
proportion and you know, it'snot the end of the world if xyz
happens and a sense of humor isso important and that will carry
you through a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
That's the young stage so funny that you
mentioned this idea of takingpictures.
I remember when I had threelittle ones, I was pregnant and
they were quiet.
One morning I slept in malki, Islept in and I remember turning
to my husband and being likeit's Pesach vacation, all the
kids are off playgroup, but weslept in.
That's amazing.
And I got up and my two boyswere in my daughter's crib with
(11:16):
every single cracker from thepantry smashed up, dancing on it
, like I had Pesach cleanedeverything, like I was ready to
like turn over the kitchen and Inow had crumbs everywhere.
And I remember I have a picture, like my kids know.
This picture is so funny, butin that moment it was so not
funny.
But I also want to bring upanother point, other than like
(11:37):
laughing, which I could do now Idon't think I quite got there
in the moment.
I also want to really bring upto people and I know that this
is an expensive thing to share,but if you can invest in some
sort of help or if somebody isgoing to gift you something for
Pesach and you know, instead ofa piece of jewelry or instead of
flowers, you know, maybe usingthat towards help and that could
(12:00):
look at like a high school kidwho's going to take your kids to
the park for an hour or two sothat you can take a nap no, I'm
not going to say clean, take anap so that you can just read,
so that you can do something, sothat when your kids are around
and you're, you know back toyourself.
Because there is a lot of timeduring Pesach and Pesach
vacation by the way, I thinkit's our biggest vacation on the
Jewish school calendar and youhave a lot of time with your
(12:23):
kids.
So it's okay.
If you know your curtains arenot Pesach cleaned.
I didn't even know that was athing until the summer.
Guy who does my curtains islike call me back for Pesach.
I was like, why am I callingyou back for Pesach?
But so it's okay when your kidsare little.
I just want to add to Maki likeyour house does not have to be
perfectly Pesach cleaned.
Dirt is not hamidstik.
Your diaper cream might be, butdirt is not hamidstik and
(12:48):
really just hire as much help asyou can and just one step in
front of the other.
Then your kids kind of getolder and you kind of straddle
this space where, like, yourkids are able to help, but guess
what?
They no longer want to help.
So I want to talk a little bitabout teenagers.
How are we motivating our teensor preteens to really get in on
the process?
(13:09):
And it's their vacation, likethey work hard all year.
They want their time off and ona certain level I think as
mothers we want them to have thetime off as well, like for
their mental health and just forthemselves, like we don't want
to overburden our children.
So I guess there's two parts tothis.
How much are we supposed toexpect of our teens and preteens
and how do we get them to wantto be involved?
(13:30):
And does it matter if they wantto be?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
involved Right.
I wouldn't go with the startingpoint of how do we get them to
want to be involved?
I think that I believe thisabout children in general that
one of the ways of instillingresponsibility in them is that
they help in the household fromwhen they're very, very small.
I feel that that is actually ofcrucial importance that kids
help around the household, thatthey have chores, that they also
(13:53):
learn to take personalownership.
You know you ate, go put yourplate in the sink when you're
done.
That kind of thing where littlechildren, after you take a bath
, go put your clothes in thehamper, don't just leave it on
the floor.
It's really, really importantto instill those traits in them.
It's not just about themhelping you, it's also, it's
primarily it's, about them beingresponsible human beings.
(14:15):
And I tell my daughters,especially my older daughters
when you have households of yourown, I want you to know how to
do it Like you.
It's my job to make sure youknow how to cook.
It's my job to make sure youknow how to do laundry, how to
how to run a home.
And same thing with my boys, bythe way.
They need to have these skills.
These are life skills thatpeople should have, and my girls
(14:37):
will tell me sometimes, likeyou know, my friend's mother
doesn't let her help out in thekitchen, and I feel so bad for
her, like she's going to getmarried and she's not going to
know how to cook.
And I agree.
Why should a girl get marriedand not know how to cook?
But you know what.
What's she going to do?
Like when you're adjusting to anew husband is not when you
want to be figuring out how tomake rice for supper.
So I think that is just anapproach to openly communicate
(14:59):
this with your children that youare going to be a much more
capable adult if you learn howto do these things now.
As far as Pesach or any Yom Tovreally Pesach, though, is
obviously the mostlabor-intensive.
If we communicate a sense ofjoy about Yom Tov, then
hopefully we are looking at thepreparation to that time as
joyful as well, and I also thinkthat part of the beauty of the
(15:22):
Jewish calendar is that thereare different things at
different times of year.
So you only build a sukkah oncea year.
For kids who like to build,it's just so exciting, it's a
novelty, and we only do it once,like in my house, the kids who
want to help build a sukkah wantto help build a sukkah and
they're so excited and it's likea treat because we only get to
do it.
It's not we only get to do.
It's not, we only have to doonce a year.
(15:42):
We only get to do it once ayear.
Um pays off.
Also, it's the only time we dothis.
You know, major spring cleaningsituation and I look, I look
forward to it because I I love Idon't necessarily love the
cleaning, but I love thecleanliness, so it's it's, it's
great, like I'm glad I have,just from a purely physical
monday perspective, I'm glad Ihave that time.
(16:03):
That makes me have that thatsort of structure in my life
where, yes, we're going to do aproper cleaning, I love it, like
we're going to get rid of allthe garbage.
It's going to be amazing.
I think that that is is a bigpart of the overall approach.
I actually, a few years ago Idon't remember exactly how long
ago I started this I decided tomake a chart for Pace Off
(16:24):
Cleaning.
I had a big poster board.
I made a calendar, a bigcalendar, basically for the
month from perm to Pace Off.
So it's like a large, largesite hanging on the wall, and
then I wrote down all of thedifferent jobs that need to get
done for Pace Off Cleaning ondifferent post-it notes and I
tried to break it down as muchas possible.
You know it's not like cleaningyour rooms Like the living room
(16:44):
couch is one post-it note andthe armchair is another one and
put out the post-it notes ondifferent days of the calendar.
And I originally started doingthis to make it clearer to some
of the kids who struggle alittle bit more with executive
functioning and planningbreaking down big projects.
I want them to feel empoweredto clean for PESA especially.
I want them to feel empoweredto clean for Pesach, especially
(17:04):
when they have their own homes,because it can be a big job.
It is a big job.
It can feel very, veryoverwhelming and I don't want
them to feel that way.
I want them to feel that this,yes, it's a big job, but I know
how to do it.
I want them to feel confidentembarking in Pesach cleaning.
And if you're not so great atbringing down big jobs into
little jobs, this is my chanceto model it for them, to teach
them.
So I've done this for a fewyears and, uh, this past year.
(17:29):
Shushan firm is usually when Istart cleaning for these health.
So yesterday I said, okay,let's start cleaning, I'm going
to do the freezer, let's startgoing through your drawers
making sure there's no comments.
And then just wasn't making thechart.
I felt like, whatever you know,like let's, let's just clean,
like we don't the whole intro.
And my kids made the chart forme.
One of my daughters said, okay,I'm going to go make the chart
now.
So I said, sure, I came back in.
All the kids are clusteredaround they're decorating it.
(17:51):
They wrote down all the jobsthemselves on different post-it
notes.
They're giving me ideas aboutwhere I should put them.
It was so amazing that theytook that ownership and I do see
that they're empowered, likethey know what has to get done
and they have opinions aboutwhat's the best time to do this
and what's the best time to dothat.
And they were all happy andexcited about it and like, let's
just be realistic.
(18:11):
That doesn't mean they loveevery second of cleaning.
That doesn't mean I don't haveto remind them a hundred times
maybe to do the same job or sitthere with them and walk them
through it, but it's not.
It's not a negative thing.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It's, it's a I love that, because it's such a sense
of accomplishment for you as amother that your kids were able
to mimic what you've been doing.
And it's such a nice thingbecause so much of motherhood is
us doing it again and again andthe kid's not getting it.
And then when you see it,you're like, oh my gosh, I'm
(18:43):
doing something that's amazing.
We were talking a little bitabout the calmness and the
enjoyable and that we want ourkids to feel like it's a doable
job, that it's a job that wefeel good and we're not going to
necessarily be overwhelmed.
Can we talk a little bit aboutthe mundane part of this job?
It is mundane.
It is doing one thing at a time, putting a foot in front of the
(19:06):
other cleaning this door,cleaning that door, doing this
room, doing that room, doingthis floor, doing that floor,
checking things off our box whatabout?
I want to go back to thespirituality which we kind of
touched on on the beginning.
But what about the ruchniaspart?
Where is our role in thismundane job?
Is there a spiritual componentthat we're supposed to connect
to and, if so, what is thatcomponent?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I really believe and this isn't only about Pesach, by
the way I think for any Jewishwoman, life does often heal and
is very, very mundane.
There's, you know, you'remaking Shabbos every week.
I always say, if a firm womanwants a superiority complex,
just like, look at some of theliterature in the secular world
about Thanksgiving and you justyou're going to feel like a
superhero because you are oneand you pull this off every week
(19:50):
.
So there's a tremendous amountof doing the same tasks again.
You know you cook for shabbosevery week.
You clean for shabbos everyweek.
There are a number of yavimtype of year.
They're beautiful, it's.
There's definitely a hugeamount of stuff.
If you have a big family, youknow there's child care is a
never-ending situation.
(20:11):
Um, and I I think that we learna lot of this.
So much about fusing gashaswith romance.
It's the whole subject actuallyof the last uh, specifically
women.
If you look at the way therabbi speaks to women, there are
those letters to women.
I I see this very clearly and Ireally feel it.
(20:32):
This has been my experiencethat all, all you didn't have
the ability to infuse theirphysical lives and their
physical stuff of spirituality.
I think women have a uniqueability to do this because we
are so, or maybe hashem gave usthis ability because we're so
grounded in the mundane world,because we have to be.
You know, doing that laundryand changing the diapers and
cooking supper every day andcracking the backpacks that we
(20:54):
really have.
I believe women have an extraability to feel that fusion, to
feel that the mundane tasksyou're doing are holy, and I
think it has a lot to do withmindset that it can be easy to
like sort of make yourselfsuffer and feel like, oh, I have
to do this again, I have toclean again and look at the mess
the kids made again.
Or you can open yourself up tosaying and literally tell
(21:17):
yourself, I'm doing somethingholy, that it's.
You have to be open to it, youhave to be willing to let
yourself experience it.
But I really believe women havea greater ability.
There's actually a beautiful uhteaching um from maybe it's not
a verdicci, I don't remember theexact words, but he he says
that cleaning that do for pesaum and he he parallels it with
(21:39):
the uh shifer that is blown onrussia.
There, if you look on russia,the, the uh kylice of the shite
are.
They're referred to by theabbreviation kufshin, race and
kuf.
That's kia, that's kia, shkarm,tshiro and kia.
And he takes four Yiddish words.
I don't remember all the words.
One of them is like thescratching, scrubbing let's
start with those letters kufshin, resh and kuf.
(22:01):
And he says that the scrubbingand the cleaning and the
scratching things out that womenare doing are a case of
cleaning their house.
That is as powerful as thekylites of the chyfer that blow.
That's an amazing thing.
Tell yourself that when you'recleaning, I'm like blowing the
chyfer now, but the impact, thespiritual impact of what I'm
doing is huge and all I have todo is scrub, you know, the
(22:24):
cabinet, which is very doable.
Maybe it's so fun, but when youconsider the impact, wow, like,
look at what a gift that wehave, that we're able to do.
Tell your kids it's, it'sreally.
It's an amazing, amazing thingthat our result speaks very
highly of the efforts to get ridof comments before paysock,
also to clean, on what thatmeans on a spiritual level and
what that does for your neshama.
(22:45):
It's, it's really.
It's an amazing opportunitythat we have.
So if we can open ourselves upto feeling the Brooklyn-ness,
then we can experience thiswhole pre-pixelf thing on a very
, very different plane.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So, because I know Malky for a long time, I'm going
to call you out on this alittle.
So, malky, I don't know if youremember this conversation, but
I remember it so vividly becausewe had it for a while.
So Malky and I have a group offriends that we've actually been
in touch with almost daily, Iwant to say since seminary,
which is amazing.
And I remember when we were allvery young, new wives and
(23:21):
mothers, we actually, I thinkalmost all of us, struggled with
this concept.
So first, I want to hold spacefor whoever's listening and
they're like oh, that's totallynot attainable.
I don't feel the spirituality inthe mundane.
I mean, I actually feel thisvery, very deeply now in how the
mundane parts of my life arereally holy and I see the
positive spiritual effect onboth myself and my children.
(23:43):
I see the connection, but Ithink that you don't always
naturally see it, and so that's,this is the part like I know
that I've struggled with this.
I know, malki, like when wewere all young mothers and when
our jobs went from oh, we canopen a sikha, we can open a
mayamar, every single day, wecould like go to class.
We can, you know, learn witheach other when we went into the
mundane.
I think there was a switchwhere we felt like we were less
(24:06):
than that, we weren't doingthese high ruchnistika vaida and
we had lost a part of ourselves.
So I think that these things Ijust want to hold space for A if
you're not feeling up to thelevel that Malky is saying, and
also understand that neitherMalky nor myself, this wasn't
natural, like it's not somethingthat's you know, that didn't
(24:28):
take effort and it does takeeffort to connect to the
physicality and how the mundaneis actually spiritual.
So it takes time, it takeslearning and it takes also
seeing the effects, seeing how,if my kid is struggling
spiritually, if I put morephysical effort into what I'm
doing and making sure my home isfunctional, making sure my home
is beautiful and making sureI'm present and playing with
(24:50):
Legos on the floor for fourhours with a two-year-old, that
is spirituality.
I think that that sometimesdoes take time for people to
just feel the spirituality andfor sure cleaning toilets like
that does not feel even remotelyspiritual, not even half as
spiritual as sitting and playingLegos.
So I think that if you'restruggling, don't feel bad.
(25:10):
Listen again to what Malki justsaid and hear it again, that
how the physicality really isdeeply spiritual and that's
really our vayda as yiddin inthis world, in a physical world.
If Hashem didn't want us todeal with the physical, we
wouldn't be in a physical world.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I do want to share that.
I remember in Samhari,discussing with a few different
people it was a conversationthat came up up a lot,
especially towards the end ofthe year that there there was
like a sort of despondency thatwe're leaving seminary and we're
never gonna, basically we'renever gonna be bullied again,
yeah, but that went on for years.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It wasn't just a discussion in seminary.
We struggled even when we eachhad one or two kids so I have to
say that I never believed that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
even then, like I do remember telling people no, that
makes no sense.
People do not reach the climaxof their spirituality at the age
of 18.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Okay, so maybe, malky , you tethered us down, but the
rest of us felt it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Meaning I hadn't experienced yet.
You know what I was talkingabout before that, that I do
believe that any woman can feelthis greater connection.
Um had not experienced that yet.
No, but certainly not to thedepth that I did.
As a woman with a household torun it Like, we have to be
heavily involved in mundanetasks all the time.
But I did believe itintellectually because, honestly
(26:24):
, it does not make any sensethat Hashem would structure our
lives this way and also expectus to be holy and to connect to
Him and to grow closer to Him.
If this wasn't a path to growcloser to him, it just so did.
I have to, um, learn to openmyself to the experience a
hundred percent.
But I think if we can at leastagree with it on an intellectual
level, then we'll allowourselves to be open to the
(26:47):
experience, versus if you thinkin your head that this is
holding me back from being holyand it will hold you back from
being holy because you won't beopen to feeling the rukhnias of
it.
You have to know and accept andunderstand.
This is how I can be holy.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
So that, yes, that really that makes sense.
So I think that that's yourfirst step.
Your first step is really tojust understand it on an
intellectual level and then tryit, and then when you feel it,
then it means something to you,and I think maybe that's the
piece that people have to really, really connect to.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And, like I said, the Rebbe speaks about this a lot.
I feel like go back to thesources.
The Rebbe spoke to us, heshared these messages with us so
that we would be able to liveour lives joyfully and feeling
that, kaddishah, and feelingthat everything we do on a
mandate level is very meaningful.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
But the doing does make us tired, right?
So you're going through thewhole process, right?
So you're going through thewhole the end of Adar, the
beginning of Nisan, the day ofErev, pesach and you come to the
seder and you set thisbeautiful, beautiful, amazing
seder and you sit down andyou're exhausted, you're so
tired, and then your kid needsto nurse and your older kids
(28:04):
need attention and the two youknow middle schoolers are
fighting over who's sitting nextto mommy.
What's your role at the sedertable?
Like aside for chief conflictresolution maker?
Like?
What's your role at the sedertable?
Like aside for chief conflictresolution maker?
Like what's your role in yourexhaustion of just being?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I think it's that it's just being without
expectations of how it shouldlook.
Or you know my kids should bedoing xyz or should not should.
It's a very destructive word.
I think we should get it out ofour vocabulary because when you
have expectations of how it'smeant to be and it doesn't look
quite like that, what you mighthave might be beautiful and
(28:41):
wonderful and your kids willhave wonderful memories and
wonderful experiences.
But if it's not matching up toyour expectations of how it
should be, then it's not goingto feel good and when you get
into that space of it shouldn'tbe this way, it's a terrible
feeling.
You work so hard, you work solong, you put so much into it.
So I really feel, like you said, just being, just be.
(29:01):
It is what it is and it's okay.
It's usually okay.
You know, most circumstancesare okay and fine.
If you can just be and maintainthat sense of calm, then it's
okay.
If you can just be and maintainthat sense of calm, then it's
okay.
And it might take longer, itmight not be as elaborate as you
want it.
Whatever, wherever the like thefallout's going to be, If it's
(29:23):
not in your mood and in the moodof your family, then you're
doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I love that I also learned this is this was
something I learned aftermessing up at least once that
your kids don't actuallyremember all the conflict stuff
that was happening between them.
They don't remember thestruggle that you were like, oh
my gosh, that was the biggeststress.
What they remember is what youput forth, and they remember
what you put forth in positivity.
So, with the songs that yousang oh my gosh, remember the
(29:49):
song that we sang.
They don't remember the reasonyou sang that song was because
they were almost about to killeach other so you started a song
.
They just remember the funnysong that you were like oh
remember I sang this.
They remember what you putforth and I think that that's
such an important lesson.
If you do get stressed that,like my kids laugh at me because
I make up funny songs, theydon't know that every single
time I make a funny song, it'sbecause they're driving me
(30:10):
absolutely crazy, and I have.
Either I'm going to scream atthem or I'm going to make a
crazy song, and we have crazysongs and one of my nieces was
in the house Arab Purim and wewere packing up Shalach Manas
and suddenly I was singing thesong.
She's like what are you doing?
And my kids are like, oh, mommyalways does that.
But they like they thinkhuh-huh, it's so funny, it's
really like it's just a way todeal with things and really
(30:33):
that's the only thing theyremember.
They have no idea why I sing thesongs, and I think that that's
very important for us tounderstand that our kids don't
actually remember the parts thatare stressing us out.
They're going to rememberwhatever we put forth and
whatever we just either repeator we focus on or, you know,
whatever the energy is reallyfocused on, and I think that
that's a very important lessonfor us as well.
(30:54):
So at the table you have abunch of kids.
They all have to share theirHaggadahs and they all have to
share their things.
Are there ways to get kidsinvolved, both the little kids
and the younger kids equally?
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
One thing that we try to do a lot at our table, not
just to stay there but ingeneral is have discussion.
In other words, not just sharea dvaratara, but have discussion
.
You know, what I noticed Isn'tthat interesting?
That it says X, y, Z or like oh, you know, this question just
came to my mind.
Or when a kid shares advaratara, to talk about it with
(31:35):
them, to reflect back, maybe toask a question, not so much to
drive home any particular point,just that we're like let's talk
, let's, you know, let's, let'sshare ideas.
So the savior in particular is Ivery much see it that way that
it's a time of discussion, notnot exactly like, you know,
let's pack in as many differenttire as we can, but we all share
(31:56):
together.
And when you have it at, youknow a spread of ages around the
table, whether it's your ownchildren or guests um, to just
sort of like be cognizant ofeverybody sitting around and
make sure you're sort of liketouching all bases, which means
also that everybody's going tobe patient and we'll stop to
sing the two-year-old song andthen we'll say, okay, this
question is for, you know, thefour-year-old, and let that
(32:19):
child answer it, and thenthey're fine.
But then you have a more adultconversation, let's say with the
teenagers or the preteens orthe actual adults.
It's very organic, I guess, butorganic with a lot of intention
.
The classroom you want to kindof uh sort of scan the room all
the time and make sure that,like you're just noticing
(32:42):
everyone and and hearing fromeverybody at whatever interval.
Uh, it's sort of like that,just keeping an eye on who's at
the table, making sure we're,you know, hearing from everyone
that they're engaged in whateverway.
Um, and there could be sideconversations going on too.
You know that's okay,especially if we tend to have a
lot of people like me you knowit's not a classroom so quietly
(33:04):
and listen, just like some moremore organic, more casual.
But I do think discussion isvery, very important.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's not just share something you learned with us,
it's let's talk about it so Iwant to bring up one other
scenario, which, mark, I'm sureyou've had payoffs like this
where you're maybe just rightafter a birth or there's a
really catchy kid who's notfeeling well and you spend half
the Seder like in a bedroom witha kid.
How do you connect to the Seder, like, let's take our kids out
of the equation, let's just takeour role as mother?
(33:31):
Right, you're the mother.
You literally missed half ofMaggid at least and you're just
speeding through Maggit so youcan serve and catch up to the
family.
How do you connect to whatPesach's really about if you're
really not even at the table?
You're not even being at thetable.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Right.
So one of my children actuallywas born Yadol of Nisa.
I don't even think I sat at thetable, I think I like laid on
the couch next to the table atthe seder.
I don't even.
It's a little fuzzy in my mindto be honest, but I will say I
don't recall feeling like Imissed it.
Again, it goes back to I'mplanted this way.
This is the structure that hegave us.
(34:09):
So if I was immediately postbirth and for me post birth
means I am 100% out ofcommission, like I told my
mother before that baby was born, like I cannot peel up a table
after I have a baby Like it's, Ican do nothing, literally
nothing.
So I no, I wasn't.
It was not my typical Pesach atall, but no, I don't.
(34:30):
I don't recall a sense of beingleft out, because that's that
was the plan for me.
That Pesach and P off is it's.
It's not just about themechanics.
The mechanics is generally howwe get to the inner meaning of
something.
But that inner meaning isalways there and it's due to
whatever circumstances.
Your mechanics are going to bedifferent, like that year.
(34:52):
No, I did not sit at a sedertable at all.
Really I I lay reclined on thecouch.
So I did the reclining thing,which, for however long I held
up to it, that's okay.
This is the Seder for me.
If you have a child that youknow needs you, you know older,
(35:14):
younger, whatever it is, then itmight not feel like the.
Again there goes theexpectation.
It might not feel like how itshould be, but, yes, for you,
this is how it should be, thisis how it is intended to be this
year and it's still Pesach.
I think that is like the justit's so important, like to to
hold onto that.
It's not about the trappings orthe accoutrements or or the way
(35:36):
I mean.
Again, often those are how weget to the inner intent, but it
is still.
It's still Pesach.
It was still Pesach for me thatyear.
It's still a season of rebirth.
If anything, it was more aseason of rebirth, you know of,
of achieving more of of freedom.
It's.
It is a time of Kleros.
Um, I actually I think I feltthat again it's fuzzy, but I
remember in my pregnancy whichwas difficult, looking forward
(35:59):
to, hopefully by Pesach I'mgoing to be done.
You know, I'm going to be at theSeder table and I'm just I'm
going to have this new baby andthat's what happened.
And I think I felt a tremendoussense of freedom just because
of that and that was the wayHashem wanted me to experience
it that year and I got like Idon't want to make it sound like
(36:20):
this isn't a real struggle, Iknow, I know it can be, but it's
like I said, I do believe itstarts in an intellectual place
of understanding and acceptingthat if these are the
circumstances Hashem gave me,then this is how it's meant to
be for me and I can achieveexperience, whatever it is that
I'm meant to in thesecircumstances.
Experience, whatever it is thatI'm meant to in these
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I love how the refrain in this conversation of
Pesach is letting go of theexpectations, because in there
you're actually achievingfreedom, and in the freedom is
the whole idea of Pesach.
So in letting go of theexpectations of, oh it should be
, oh, it needs to be, oh it hasto, oh we need to follow this,
in a certain way, we kind ofachieve exactly what Pesach is
(37:04):
all about.
Let's go back a second.
So Maki's the principal of ahigh school and I think that
every single year I hear motherstalk about how long Pesach
vacation is, especially fortheir high schoolers.
And what are they actuallydoing their entire Pesach
vacation?
Are they actually helping theirmothers?
(37:24):
Are they supposed to actuallybe helping their mothers?
Why do kids have such a lot,especially high school kids have
such a long vacations?
And where do parents find thebalance of setting expectations
reachable expectations for theirchildren versus overwhelming
(37:45):
their children?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
So first of all, I mean just from a school
perspective we typically endcloser to Pesach than many other
high schools do.
We usually end around Vav orZion Nissan.
A lot of schools end earlierthis year because of the way
Shabbos falls out.
We're a little earlier thanusual, but I do think like a
week, eight days, nine days, 10days, I do think that's a
(38:08):
reasonable time for you'retalking about a teenage girl.
Yeah, she should be homehelping and again, it's not just
about helping you, it's alsoabout she's gonna do this
herself one day.
She should know about she'sgoing to do this herself one day
.
She should know how.
She should be empowered, sheshould have the skills and the
confidence to to do Pesach onher own because she's practiced.
But it's also it's it's justlike I said, part of being a
(38:29):
responsible adult, and you knowit's okay.
Kids don't have to likeeverything we tell them to do,
like they.
You know when, when they'relittle, they don't want to brush
their teeth.
One of my boys hates showeringwith a passion.
I know when he grows up he'sgoing to be clean and British,
but it's because I make himshower now and eventually he's
going to integrate that into hishobbies and his skill set, and
(38:50):
it's okay that he doesn't likewhen I tell him to shower now he
still has to do it.
I don't like when you tell themto clean their room.
They don't like when you tellthem to clean their room.
They don't like when you tellthem to do homework.
It's okay, like I do believe.
I see, I see a lot.
There's a lot of fear inparenting nowadays that we were
afraid to tell our kids to dosomething they don't want to do.
It's okay, that's our job.
We need to communicate again,calmly.
(39:12):
I think calm is so, soimportant Lovingly firmly.
We need lovingly firmly.
We need to have a lot ofpatience because we might need
to see the same things again andagain and again and again.
And that's normal because ourkids.
But it's it's really okay tohave and necessary, I think, to
have expectations of yourchildren, especially your
teenage children.
I have teenage daughters aswell and they help a lot.
(39:37):
They do and they do also.
You know, every mother has tofigure this out what's the
rhythm of your household?
But try to take their needs,their personalities into account
.
If you can say, would yourather do this or that, you know
, that's great if you can dothat, um, if you can say
different kids react todifferent things.
But some, some children want toknow, like, okay, what do you
want me to do and when will I bedone?
So I need you to do uh, a and band that's it.
(40:00):
Or, um, for the half hour canyou do x and you could take a
break again.
Like for some kids that's not sohelpful, for some it is.
You kind of try to have to seewhat speaks to your children.
So take them into account byall means, um, and obviously he
should never be their burden,but they, they, yeah, they
should be helping.
They can both, because theyneed to learn themselves to do
(40:23):
this.
They need these skills, part ofbeing a capable adult.
Because they are in a family,they should be team players.
This is we should all arrive atPesach, you know, feeling like
we joined together and pulledoff something amazing.
It's quite so gratifying thatmy kids made that chart, that
Pays Off cleaning chart, becausethey were taking ownership of
the first step of the process.
(40:44):
Like, pays Off is something weall do together and that's an
invaluable feeling for a familymember to have that we do this
as a team.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I think that's such an important lesson and I do
think that, like, I go intoschools a lot and I speak to
parents whenever I go intoschool and I think that we've
lost this part of it, honestly,like not to sound like, oh my
gosh, you know, something'swrong with parents today.
But I remember I was speakingto someone.
Someone had called me a parentis not related to me going into
(41:16):
school.
Someone had called me and shesaid oh, do you know anyone who
can help me?
She had three little kids and ateenager.
You know someone who could comeby and help me?
And I said what do you mean?
Don't you have, like a teenagedaughter?
She's like yeah, but she's onvacation.
I can't ask her to do anything.
And I was like what do you mean?
So you're going to hire someoneelse's mouth, like I?
(41:42):
I didn't get it and I was likeam I missing something?
Like I have.
My older kids are boys, they'renot girls, but I would never
like be okay with them nothelping.
My boys cook, my boys clean, myboys do what they need to do.
It's not related to theirgender.
It has to do with the fact,like you said, we all live in a
home.
I'm not the cleaning lady,they're not the cleaning lady,
it's irrelevant whether we havea cleaning lady.
We all enjoy the perks ofliving in our home, so we all
help.
I mean, like aside for the lifeskill part is just, this is a
(42:05):
home for all of us and so you'renot a guest in the home, we all
help.
So it was just a veryinteresting thing to me and as
I've gone to schools I've kindof seen more and more of the
same type of refrain of likewe're coddling our children and
in a very big way, like theycan't fail, and they can't.
You know, the expectationscan't be too high and I don't
know if maybe we've gone to theopposite end of where a
(42:29):
generation ago maybe was, whereyou know we're more in tune with
their mental health needs andwe want to make sure that
they're taken care of, but maybewe've gone too far.
So just talking a little bitabout the mental health needs
and I think you kind of touchedon it, but not really so I want
to just give it a little bitmore attention.
What if your kid is having areally stressful year and they
do need this break?
(42:49):
This has to be some sort ofbreak for them to reset, so that
they could go back into schooland go back into the life that
maybe is more stressful for them?
Where do you find the balance ofyes, we're all a family.
Yes, we all have to help.
Yes, these are yourexpectations, but I'd like to
give you a vacation.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right.
So when we say a kid isstruggling, that's an extremely
vague and broad title.
I think that the idea is not somuch to give your kid a
vacation, it's to address theneed that that child has.
So your child is strugglingwith what?
What's the struggle?
Does he or she not feelaccomplished?
(43:29):
Are they having a hard timesocially?
Let's try to hone in on whatthe issue is.
And then the vacation is notabout a vacation.
I mean, it's not aboutmindlessly doing nothing.
It's about is there any way wecan try to fill that need?
Or if, for whatever reason,that is impossible, that we can,
you know, really like, boost orbuild up another area to give
(43:51):
them there in that area, thatwill kind of spill over and sort
of or at least for now, coverup, not cover up and, like you
know, shove it under the rug,but we'll help them where
they're lacking.
So if let's say, if a kid ishaving a hard time in school,
let's just say, like typical,like you know, just struggling
in school, academically it'shard, it's a lot of work, I
(44:13):
really don't think what theyneed is to do nothing, certainly
not for a week or two weeks,maybe, like you know, the first
day off of school.
You want a day off, hang out,relax, no problem.
Do they want to sleep in?
You know, I think teenagehood,you know that's the time.
But sleep in until what time?
If you're not feelingaccomplished in school because
you're struggling and you don'tfeel like this is the place
(44:34):
where I can really shine, then,honestly, face-off cleaning is a
great opportunity where.
Give them a job they can do,notice how well they do it,
reflect to them how much howwell they did it, point out that
they worked hard on it.
Telling them to do nothing, notgiving them a chance to feel
that sense of accomplishment, toactually accomplish, you're not
(44:56):
filling their need so thatthey're what they're lacking in
terms of like.
Where is their mental healthbeing challenged?
It's, every human being needsto feel accomplished.
Give them that and and it couldbe in you know, so many other
areas find something that theycan do and help them be
successful at that.
But it's not that they just needa break.
It's that they need somethingspecific and try to figure out
(45:17):
what that thing is.
Try to give it to them.
Um, the experience just goingback to this and being part of a
family.
Um, a lot of kids also need asense of um, for whatever reason
, they might not be getting itin their social group or in
their peer system.
They might not be getting thesense of I am a solidly a part
of a bigger unit.
A family is a beautiful biggerunit to be a part of, and if
they can feel that sense of weall did this together that that
(45:40):
provides tremendous security andand just stability, internal
stability that a kid needs tohave.
So, again, it's not aboutedging out and doing nothing.
It's what can I give them, whatopportunity, what circumstances
can I create for them that willaddress the lack that they're
feeling?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
that's very interesting.
It's like a very interestingflip on what I think people
expect, which is to, instead ofgiving them nothing, you're
giving them jobs that they canalmost enter maybe a leadership
position or they can at least belike co-managing something and
solidly feeling good about that.
And that's a very interestingflip on, I think, what people
(46:21):
might expect when we're talkingabout involving our children.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Or maybe that's good with little kids.
You know, have them entertained.
If you have little ones, havethem.
Entertain them for some time.
Like most people, everybody cando something.
Everybody has their thing wherethey're really shy, notice it,
appreciate it, take the time tothink about how they contributed
and to express verbally howthey contributed, and they need
(46:45):
you to like write their storyfor them in those terms.
You did X, y, z and the impactof that is you know, whatever it
is, and what does that sayabout you as a person?
What personality trait were youjust expressing?
They need to hear all thosethings about you as a person.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
What personality trait were you just expressing?
They need to hear all thosethings.
That's so beautiful.
So, malky, as we come to theend of our conversation here, I
think there were so muchpositive things that every
single mother, no matter whatage and stage they're at, really
really can benefit from hearing, whether your kids are really
little, or whether you haveolder kids and younger kids, or
whether you're just deep in thetrenches of an early pregnancy,
(47:22):
where you're tired or whateverit is.
I think that there were so manysteps here along the road, and
even if you don't have childrenand you are just a woman, what's
our job as women, as we'regoing into this Pesach season
and I'm not calling it a Yadavanymore, it's the whole Pesach
season.
There were so many gifts herein this conversation.
If you had to leave ourlisteners with one thought about
(47:45):
Pesach, what would that thoughtbe?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I think that I feel that I've probably said this
already, but this is my thoughtabout Pesach that we are so
lucky, we are so, so lucky tohave this Yom Tif, to have this
season.
The whole month of Nisan is aseason to have this time, to
have every season and every YomKippur that Hashem gets us
(48:09):
Particularly.
Honestly, since this war in ourTisrael started, I have been
feeling so strongly we are theluckiest people in the world
that Ashren, that that we areusing, that we have a tyra that
guides our life, that we have acalendar that we we can live
this way, that we always havehashem to turn to.
And pesach is is one of thosegifts, and if we can relate to
(48:30):
it as a gift, then just imagineliving through this month as if
you're appreciating a gift, abeautiful gift that you've been
given every day.
It's it really we we have.
It's a gift and we areprivileged that we have this
time.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I love that.
So, during this time, as wefocus on rebirth and as we focus
on expressing parts of us inthe physicality that's around us
and the freedom of connectingto Ruchnius in a way that's
elevated, I really want to wisheveryone a Kasha and Freilich
and Pesach a happy, healthy,connected Pesach, where we
(49:07):
connect to all parts of ourfamily unit and to our identity
as Jewish women.
Thank you for joining me onthis past hour.
I'm so glad that you found ourpodcast and that we got to spend
the time together.
If you would like to nominateyourself or someone you know for
(49:28):
a topic that they areinterested, feel passionate
about or you feel passionateabout, reach out to us at info
at bodysoulscom.
Remember that's two S's.
If you have any feedback aboutthe work we're doing or if you
would like to connect, you canuse the same email.
I hope you have a wonderful,uplifting and amazing day.
Good morning and welcome to Bodies and Souls, the
space in which you hearauthentic conversations from
real Jewish women talking abouttopics that are relevant to you.
You're going to walk away fromour conversation today inspired,
connected and feeling uplifted.
Today we have Malki Janowskiwith us.
Malki is going to talk to usabout getting ready for the
Seder, what Pesach prep lookslike whether you have teens or
(00:25):
children, how to not feelstretched or stressed and really
, how do we come to the tablenot feeling absolutely at our
capacity emotionally, physicallyand even spiritually.
We're going to kind of meanderthrough this conversation
because Malki and I are oldfriends and we're going to bring
you into our conversation andour journey to get to where we
(00:46):
are today and hopefully you'regoing to enjoy your Pesach preps
just a little bit more.
So, without further ado, hereis Malki.
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarsky.
So I actually have a very good,very old we just discussed how
(01:07):
old we are friend Malki Janowskihere with me all the way from
Florida.
So for those of you who don'tknow Malki, malki is on Shluchas
in Coral Springs and she is theprincipal of the high school
there.
Malki, before we start, can youtell us a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I think you just sounded up at a nutshell.
I grew up on Shulchas here andwas very happy and privileged to
be able to move back here.
On Shulchas, I'm the principalof Wurabit Z'chaya Academy,
which is a Lubavitch girls' highschool.
I love my role as a Mekhanichasand as a wife, as a mother, as
a mkhanichas and as a wife, as amother, as a shlacha, and you
(01:47):
were asking before, or youmentioned before, things you're
passionate about.
I'm passionate about all thosethings.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
So I love that and that's basically what we do here
is talk to women about whatthey're passionate about.
So Purim's behind us and we'reheading towards Pesach.
In a lot of homes that meansthat we are entering like the
stressful time of the year whereyou know there's panic and you
know some people you know mighthave even like a different set
of clothes that their toddlersare wearing in the kitchen and
you know, like there's thiswhole like panic.
It happens to be that Pesach isone of my favorite holidays and
(02:20):
I think it's my one of myfavorite Yom Tavim really, cause
it's in the spring.
And I think it's one of myfavorite Yom Tavim really
because it's in the spring andI'm like I become like as I age,
I've become like a flower thatwilts.
I mean, you don't know this inFlorida, but those of us in the
Northeast we wilt every singlewinter and then we like come
back to life every spring.
So I think there's a part of it.
That's that.
But also like Pesach was neverthis hugely stressful thing when
I was growing up.
(02:40):
So I think where I'd like thisconversation to begin is with
the stress of what you know alot of homes go through in
preparation for Pesach.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So you mentioned that Pesach was not stressful for
you growing up.
Me as well, I do think.
Something that I always I'vecome to realize as an adult is
that my mother loved Yom Tithand I love Yom Tith and I really
feel that I got that from herand I, you know, looking back,
she had so much to do.
Yom Tif was, if you want tothink of it this way, such a
(03:11):
physical burden on her as it isfor many of us as Jewish women,
and she just never portrayedthat.
She always spoke about Yom Tifwith joy.
She, you know, would be excitedabout cooking whatever
(03:31):
different foods if you know,they were individual to each
young diff and I I took that asit is in my hands also to
transmit that feeling aboutyoung diff that if I, as the
mother, transmit like a stressedsense, uh, or, you know, just
feelings of like this is so hard, we have to do this every year,
then that that would beterrible.
I'm cheating my children out ofthe joy of youngom tov.
So I I really that's somethingI try very consciously to be to
be open about how much I loveyom tov, how excited I am.
I think that that is soimportant to to just to share
(03:55):
the joy of yom tov because,barak hashem, we're so lucky to
have all these days in our livesand a calendar that has these
seasons where there's justthere's amazing things going on,
especially, by the way, if youlook at Hasidus.
Yom Tov is so much more than aday, like there's an actual
season.
You mentioned the seasons whichwe don't have so much of in
Florida.
We have like hot and not so hot.
(04:17):
That's pretty much it.
But when you talk about seasons, when it's winter or winter
starts coming and you startpulling out your winter clothes
and the sweaters and you turn onthe heat, you're like living
with the time.
And then when spring starts andthere's that rebirth and you
can stop wearing the heavy coatand you're just wearing the
jacket, you know and and youturn off the heaters and you
open your windows, you're livingwith the time.
So the um typing and facilitiesare seasons where there is a
(04:39):
reality going on and it's soeasy to get lost in the physical
tasks, especially if you don'tparticularly enjoy it, but if we
can keep in mind, there's aworld of revelation, of
kheikhais, of amazing spiritualenergy going on.
It's just we live life on anentirely different plane.
It's really an amazing thing,so I think we should approach
(05:02):
Pesach with joy.
That's in a nutshell.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I have two thoughts.
First of all, as you weretalking, you're like, oh, I also
didn't grow up with the stressI'm thinking like even the
example I gave my mother when wewere toddlers she would like
literally wipe us down as wewere leaving, but it wasn't
stressful, it was so funny andit was so fun.
And I think that that's thepart like you might be doing all
those things that cause someoneelse stress, but it was like it
was, it was almost like a game.
(05:25):
So I think it's the attitudethat's so important that, yes,
you could be like literallywiping down the windows on both
sides and doing your springcleaning with your pace off, but
it's the mindset and theattitude that really is what
you're saying is the difference.
So I think that's veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's funny that you're saying that.
Last night I told my kids atsupper okay, we're in
pay-to-stop mode, guys.
That means what do we do beforewe leave the table?
(06:00):
And they all know it already wedo the pay-to-stop dance.
The pay-to-stop dance is beforeyou leave the table, you shake
yourself off and when the yetshe's like just sort of figuring
it out and they're like made acircle and they started dancing.
I videoed it because it was socute, but they were so happy to
do this.
You know, brush off the crumbsand, yes, it could be so
stressful.
If you're like stressed aboutit, oh, my goodness, she already
stuck to your foot.
Or it can be this like big gameand thing where we do a
(06:22):
face-off dance game and thingwhere we do a Pesach dance.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's so funny how those examples just align so
perfectly.
So I want to go back to anotherthing you said.
You said seasons, right, yousaid it's a whole season and
there's chassidus behind themeaning of the season.
So what is Pesach all about?
Like what's the season and theyou know the flavor to the time
that we're in.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So Pesach Baruch Yis is about Yitzchak Mitzrayim
leaving your omens, which areboundaries?
There are boundaries that areself-imposed.
You know, we think we can onlyaccomplish X.
We can't do Y and Z.
We think that we're not goodenough for whatever other
possibilities there might be inlife.
There are boundaries that areexternally imposed and the idea
(07:02):
of Pesach is that we're justlike the Yidin left since Ryan.
They were able to breakboundaries that were really not
breakable.
You couldn't leave, but theydid that.
We're really able to step outof that and we can do things
that we didn't think that wecould do.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So the season of spring is breaking out of the
boundaries of winter and goinginto a new reality, like a
rebirth of who we are and whatwe think we're capable of.
Yes, okay, I love that.
I love that and I feel likemaybe we need to give our kids
you know this this energy everyonce in a while.
So maybe this would be like theperfect time to be like okay,
(07:36):
you guys, we can do this, we canget into a new space of being.
So let's talk a little bit onthe physical side, because we've
just kind of touched on thespirituality of it Planning for
Pesach.
So how does a mother and I thinkthat this is actually unique to
our particular age, mine andyours, where we have older kids
and little kids and we're kindof straddling this, you know,
(07:58):
different space.
So I want to break it down intotwo parts.
So I want to kind of speak toour younger moms first and then
speak to the people who are moreour age and I remember, as a
younger mom, like doing Pesachwas a lot of details, right,
there was a lot of just we'reputting one foot in front of the
other and we're just gettingthrough the day.
So I want to talk about how dowe make Pesach enjoyable and
(08:21):
doable when you have maybe threekids under the age of four or a
lot of little little kids inthe house and I'm sure you
remember this as well as I dothat it is a whole to-do when
they're all really little andyou don't even have extra hands
to help around.
There's just a lot of extrapeople.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, it is hard.
I think that, first of all,just acknowledging that this is
a part of, I guess, the journeythat we have as jewish women and
there's like a sisterhood here.
You'll always find somebody tocommiserate with you, find
another mom who is in more orless the same stage and same
boat and have like a good, youknow, kvetch fest together
(08:59):
intentionally and enjoy it.
And then, if that is, for somepeople it doesn't help.
But if that's energizing foryou, then go for it, but do it
with the mindset of likelaughing at yourself versus
actually like wallowing in thedifficulty you know it's a funny
story and tell yourself you'regoing to look back in five years
or 10 years, however long it is, and laugh, take pictures.
(09:20):
You know, if your kids uh,schmear diaper cream all over
the wall and that stuff is sohard to get off, or empty a
dozen eggs onto the floor orwhatever it is they've gotten up
to, you will laugh about it oneday.
And if you could just channelthat and laugh right now and
take a picture because you wantto have evidence when you laugh
(09:41):
about it one day, or when youshow them when they're 16, like,
like, remember that and you cankind of tap into a leader
energy and adopt it.
Now say that's really funny,also very difficult, but really
funny.
I also think that it's justhelpful to bear in mind our own,
what is our own capacity.
Do what you can do.
(10:02):
Just like a small example, onething that I find important to
make but time consuming to makeis pea soft lukshan, like those
very, very thin head noodles.
I just think it looks like eggs.
It takes a lot of time and Ihave memories of watching my
grandmother do it and I was likein trance, like she would pick
it up with her bare fingers andflip it over and I wanted to do
it, but it's, it's a pretty timeconsuming thing and it involves
standing for a lot of time overthe stove.
(10:23):
When my kids were small Ididn't make them because I just
didn't have time, and nowthey're bigger and if they're
able to help more, I do havetime to make them and that's
okay.
You know, when you can do it,you can do it, and when you
can't do it, you can't do it.
So the, the just recognizinglike what makes sense for me now
, I feel like, is a veryimportant thing.
And keeping, just keeping asense of equilibrium and
(10:44):
proportion and you know, it'snot the end of the world if xyz
happens and a sense of humor isso important and that will carry
you through a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
That's the young stage so funny that you
mentioned this idea of takingpictures.
I remember when I had threelittle ones, I was pregnant and
they were quiet.
One morning I slept in malki, Islept in and I remember turning
to my husband and being likeit's Pesach vacation, all the
kids are off playgroup, but weslept in.
That's amazing.
And I got up and my two boyswere in my daughter's crib with
(11:16):
every single cracker from thepantry smashed up, dancing on it
, like I had Pesach cleanedeverything, like I was ready to
like turn over the kitchen and Inow had crumbs everywhere.
And I remember I have a picture, like my kids know.
This picture is so funny, butin that moment it was so not
funny.
But I also want to bring upanother point, other than like
(11:37):
laughing, which I could do now Idon't think I quite got there
in the moment.
I also want to really bring upto people and I know that this
is an expensive thing to share,but if you can invest in some
sort of help or if somebody isgoing to gift you something for
Pesach and you know, instead ofa piece of jewelry or instead of
flowers, you know, maybe usingthat towards help and that could
(12:00):
look at like a high school kidwho's going to take your kids to
the park for an hour or two sothat you can take a nap no, I'm
not going to say clean, take anap so that you can just read,
so that you can do something, sothat when your kids are around
and you're, you know back toyourself.
Because there is a lot of timeduring Pesach and Pesach
vacation by the way, I thinkit's our biggest vacation on the
Jewish school calendar and youhave a lot of time with your
(12:23):
kids.
So it's okay.
If you know your curtains arenot Pesach cleaned.
I didn't even know that was athing until the summer.
Guy who does my curtains islike call me back for Pesach.
I was like, why am I callingyou back for Pesach?
But so it's okay when your kidsare little.
I just want to add to Maki likeyour house does not have to be
perfectly Pesach cleaned.
Dirt is not hamidstik.
Your diaper cream might be, butdirt is not hamidstik and
(12:48):
really just hire as much help asyou can and just one step in
front of the other.
Then your kids kind of getolder and you kind of straddle
this space where, like, yourkids are able to help, but guess
what?
They no longer want to help.
So I want to talk a little bitabout teenagers.
How are we motivating our teensor preteens to really get in on
the process?
(13:09):
And it's their vacation, likethey work hard all year.
They want their time off and ona certain level I think as
mothers we want them to have thetime off as well, like for
their mental health and just forthemselves, like we don't want
to overburden our children.
So I guess there's two parts tothis.
How much are we supposed toexpect of our teens and preteens
and how do we get them to wantto be involved?
(13:30):
And does it matter if they wantto be?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
involved Right.
I wouldn't go with the startingpoint of how do we get them to
want to be involved?
I think that I believe thisabout children in general that
one of the ways of instillingresponsibility in them is that
they help in the household fromwhen they're very, very small.
I feel that that is actually ofcrucial importance that kids
help around the household, thatthey have chores, that they also
(13:53):
learn to take personalownership.
You know you ate, go put yourplate in the sink when you're
done.
That kind of thing where littlechildren, after you take a bath
, go put your clothes in thehamper, don't just leave it on
the floor.
It's really, really importantto instill those traits in them.
It's not just about themhelping you, it's also, it's
primarily it's, about them beingresponsible human beings.
(14:15):
And I tell my daughters,especially my older daughters
when you have households of yourown, I want you to know how to
do it Like you.
It's my job to make sure youknow how to cook.
It's my job to make sure youknow how to do laundry, how to
how to run a home.
And same thing with my boys, bythe way.
They need to have these skills.
These are life skills thatpeople should have, and my girls
(14:37):
will tell me sometimes, likeyou know, my friend's mother
doesn't let her help out in thekitchen, and I feel so bad for
her, like she's going to getmarried and she's not going to
know how to cook.
And I agree.
Why should a girl get marriedand not know how to cook?
But you know what.
What's she going to do?
Like when you're adjusting to anew husband is not when you
want to be figuring out how tomake rice for supper.
So I think that is just anapproach to openly communicate
(14:59):
this with your children that youare going to be a much more
capable adult if you learn howto do these things now.
As far as Pesach or any Yom Tovreally Pesach, though, is
obviously the mostlabor-intensive.
If we communicate a sense ofjoy about Yom Tov, then
hopefully we are looking at thepreparation to that time as
joyful as well, and I also thinkthat part of the beauty of the
(15:22):
Jewish calendar is that thereare different things at
different times of year.
So you only build a sukkah oncea year.
For kids who like to build,it's just so exciting, it's a
novelty, and we only do it once,like in my house, the kids who
want to help build a sukkah wantto help build a sukkah and
they're so excited and it's likea treat because we only get to
do it.
It's not we only get to do.
It's not, we only have to doonce a year.
(15:42):
We only get to do it once ayear.
Um pays off.
Also, it's the only time we dothis.
You know, major spring cleaningsituation and I look, I look
forward to it because I I love Idon't necessarily love the
cleaning, but I love thecleanliness, so it's it's, it's
great, like I'm glad I have,just from a purely physical
monday perspective, I'm glad Ihave that time.
(16:03):
That makes me have that thatsort of structure in my life
where, yes, we're going to do aproper cleaning, I love it, like
we're going to get rid of allthe garbage.
It's going to be amazing.
I think that that is is a bigpart of the overall approach.
I actually, a few years ago Idon't remember exactly how long
ago I started this I decided tomake a chart for Pace Off
(16:24):
Cleaning.
I had a big poster board.
I made a calendar, a bigcalendar, basically for the
month from perm to Pace Off.
So it's like a large, largesite hanging on the wall, and
then I wrote down all of thedifferent jobs that need to get
done for Pace Off Cleaning ondifferent post-it notes and I
tried to break it down as muchas possible.
You know it's not like cleaningyour rooms Like the living room
(16:44):
couch is one post-it note andthe armchair is another one and
put out the post-it notes ondifferent days of the calendar.
And I originally started doingthis to make it clearer to some
of the kids who struggle alittle bit more with executive
functioning and planningbreaking down big projects.
I want them to feel empoweredto clean for PESA especially.
I want them to feel empoweredto clean for Pesach, especially
(17:04):
when they have their own homes,because it can be a big job.
It is a big job.
It can feel very, veryoverwhelming and I don't want
them to feel that way.
I want them to feel that this,yes, it's a big job, but I know
how to do it.
I want them to feel confidentembarking in Pesach cleaning.
And if you're not so great atbringing down big jobs into
little jobs, this is my chanceto model it for them, to teach
them.
So I've done this for a fewyears and, uh, this past year.
(17:29):
Shushan firm is usually when Istart cleaning for these health.
So yesterday I said, okay,let's start cleaning, I'm going
to do the freezer, let's startgoing through your drawers
making sure there's no comments.
And then just wasn't making thechart.
I felt like, whatever you know,like let's, let's just clean,
like we don't the whole intro.
And my kids made the chart forme.
One of my daughters said, okay,I'm going to go make the chart
now.
So I said, sure, I came back in.
All the kids are clusteredaround they're decorating it.
(17:51):
They wrote down all the jobsthemselves on different post-it
notes.
They're giving me ideas aboutwhere I should put them.
It was so amazing that theytook that ownership and I do see
that they're empowered, likethey know what has to get done
and they have opinions aboutwhat's the best time to do this
and what's the best time to dothat.
And they were all happy andexcited about it and like, let's
just be realistic.
(18:11):
That doesn't mean they loveevery second of cleaning.
That doesn't mean I don't haveto remind them a hundred times
maybe to do the same job or sitthere with them and walk them
through it, but it's not.
It's not a negative thing.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It's, it's a I love that, because it's such a sense
of accomplishment for you as amother that your kids were able
to mimic what you've been doing.
And it's such a nice thingbecause so much of motherhood is
us doing it again and again andthe kid's not getting it.
And then when you see it,you're like, oh my gosh, I'm
(18:43):
doing something that's amazing.
We were talking a little bitabout the calmness and the
enjoyable and that we want ourkids to feel like it's a doable
job, that it's a job that wefeel good and we're not going to
necessarily be overwhelmed.
Can we talk a little bit aboutthe mundane part of this job?
It is mundane.
It is doing one thing at a time, putting a foot in front of the
(19:06):
other cleaning this door,cleaning that door, doing this
room, doing that room, doingthis floor, doing that floor,
checking things off our box whatabout?
I want to go back to thespirituality which we kind of
touched on on the beginning.
But what about the ruchniaspart?
Where is our role in thismundane job?
Is there a spiritual componentthat we're supposed to connect
to and, if so, what is thatcomponent?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I really believe and this isn't only about Pesach, by
the way I think for any Jewishwoman, life does often heal and
is very, very mundane.
There's, you know, you'remaking Shabbos every week.
I always say, if a firm womanwants a superiority complex,
just like, look at some of theliterature in the secular world
about Thanksgiving and you justyou're going to feel like a
superhero because you are oneand you pull this off every week
(19:50):
.
So there's a tremendous amountof doing the same tasks again.
You know you cook for shabbosevery week.
You clean for shabbos everyweek.
There are a number of yavimtype of year.
They're beautiful, it's.
There's definitely a hugeamount of stuff.
If you have a big family, youknow there's child care is a
never-ending situation.
(20:11):
Um, and I I think that we learna lot of this.
So much about fusing gashaswith romance.
It's the whole subject actuallyof the last uh, specifically
women.
If you look at the way therabbi speaks to women, there are
those letters to women.
I I see this very clearly and Ireally feel it.
(20:32):
This has been my experiencethat all, all you didn't have
the ability to infuse theirphysical lives and their
physical stuff of spirituality.
I think women have a uniqueability to do this because we
are so, or maybe hashem gave usthis ability because we're so
grounded in the mundane world,because we have to be.
You know, doing that laundryand changing the diapers and
cooking supper every day andcracking the backpacks that we
(20:54):
really have.
I believe women have an extraability to feel that fusion, to
feel that the mundane tasksyou're doing are holy, and I
think it has a lot to do withmindset that it can be easy to
like sort of make yourselfsuffer and feel like, oh, I have
to do this again, I have toclean again and look at the mess
the kids made again.
Or you can open yourself up tosaying and literally tell
(21:17):
yourself, I'm doing somethingholy, that it's.
You have to be open to it, youhave to be willing to let
yourself experience it.
But I really believe women havea greater ability.
There's actually a beautiful uhteaching um from maybe it's not
a verdicci, I don't remember theexact words, but he he says
that cleaning that do for pesaum and he he parallels it with
(21:39):
the uh shifer that is blown onrussia.
There, if you look on russia,the, the uh kylice of the shite
are.
They're referred to by theabbreviation kufshin, race and
kuf.
That's kia, that's kia, shkarm,tshiro and kia.
And he takes four Yiddish words.
I don't remember all the words.
One of them is like thescratching, scrubbing let's
start with those letters kufshin, resh and kuf.
(22:01):
And he says that the scrubbingand the cleaning and the
scratching things out that womenare doing are a case of
cleaning their house.
That is as powerful as thekylites of the chyfer that blow.
That's an amazing thing.
Tell yourself that when you'recleaning, I'm like blowing the
chyfer now, but the impact, thespiritual impact of what I'm
doing is huge and all I have todo is scrub, you know, the
(22:24):
cabinet, which is very doable.
Maybe it's so fun, but when youconsider the impact, wow, like,
look at what a gift that wehave, that we're able to do.
Tell your kids it's, it'sreally.
It's an amazing, amazing thingthat our result speaks very
highly of the efforts to get ridof comments before paysock,
also to clean, on what thatmeans on a spiritual level and
what that does for your neshama.
(22:45):
It's, it's really.
It's an amazing opportunitythat we have.
So if we can open ourselves upto feeling the Brooklyn-ness,
then we can experience thiswhole pre-pixelf thing on a very
, very different plane.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So, because I know Malky for a long time, I'm going
to call you out on this alittle.
So, malky, I don't know if youremember this conversation, but
I remember it so vividly becausewe had it for a while.
So Malky and I have a group offriends that we've actually been
in touch with almost daily, Iwant to say since seminary,
which is amazing.
And I remember when we were allvery young, new wives and
(23:21):
mothers, we actually, I thinkalmost all of us, struggled with
this concept.
So first, I want to hold spacefor whoever's listening and
they're like oh, that's totallynot attainable.
I don't feel the spirituality inthe mundane.
I mean, I actually feel thisvery, very deeply now in how the
mundane parts of my life arereally holy and I see the
positive spiritual effect onboth myself and my children.
(23:43):
I see the connection, but Ithink that you don't always
naturally see it, and so that's,this is the part like I know
that I've struggled with this.
I know, malki, like when wewere all young mothers and when
our jobs went from oh, we canopen a sikha, we can open a
mayamar, every single day, wecould like go to class.
We can, you know, learn witheach other when we went into the
mundane.
I think there was a switchwhere we felt like we were less
(24:06):
than that, we weren't doingthese high ruchnistika vaida and
we had lost a part of ourselves.
So I think that these things Ijust want to hold space for A if
you're not feeling up to thelevel that Malky is saying, and
also understand that neitherMalky nor myself, this wasn't
natural, like it's not somethingthat's you know, that didn't
(24:28):
take effort and it does takeeffort to connect to the
physicality and how the mundaneis actually spiritual.
So it takes time, it takeslearning and it takes also
seeing the effects, seeing how,if my kid is struggling
spiritually, if I put morephysical effort into what I'm
doing and making sure my home isfunctional, making sure my home
is beautiful and making sureI'm present and playing with
(24:50):
Legos on the floor for fourhours with a two-year-old, that
is spirituality.
I think that that sometimesdoes take time for people to
just feel the spirituality andfor sure cleaning toilets like
that does not feel even remotelyspiritual, not even half as
spiritual as sitting and playingLegos.
So I think that if you'restruggling, don't feel bad.
(25:10):
Listen again to what Malki justsaid and hear it again, that
how the physicality really isdeeply spiritual and that's
really our vayda as yiddin inthis world, in a physical world.
If Hashem didn't want us todeal with the physical, we
wouldn't be in a physical world.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I do want to share that.
I remember in Samhari,discussing with a few different
people it was a conversationthat came up up a lot,
especially towards the end ofthe year that there there was
like a sort of despondency thatwe're leaving seminary and we're
never gonna, basically we'renever gonna be bullied again,
yeah, but that went on for years.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It wasn't just a discussion in seminary.
We struggled even when we eachhad one or two kids so I have to
say that I never believed that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
even then, like I do remember telling people no, that
makes no sense.
People do not reach the climaxof their spirituality at the age
of 18.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Okay, so maybe, malky , you tethered us down, but the
rest of us felt it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Meaning I hadn't experienced yet.
You know what I was talkingabout before that, that I do
believe that any woman can feelthis greater connection.
Um had not experienced that yet.
No, but certainly not to thedepth that I did.
As a woman with a household torun it Like, we have to be
heavily involved in mundanetasks all the time.
But I did believe itintellectually because, honestly
(26:24):
, it does not make any sensethat Hashem would structure our
lives this way and also expectus to be holy and to connect to
Him and to grow closer to Him.
If this wasn't a path to growcloser to him, it just so did.
I have to, um, learn to openmyself to the experience a
hundred percent.
But I think if we can at leastagree with it on an intellectual
level, then we'll allowourselves to be open to the
(26:47):
experience, versus if you thinkin your head that this is
holding me back from being holyand it will hold you back from
being holy because you won't beopen to feeling the rukhnias of
it.
You have to know and accept andunderstand.
This is how I can be holy.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
So that, yes, that really that makes sense.
So I think that that's yourfirst step.
Your first step is really tojust understand it on an
intellectual level and then tryit, and then when you feel it,
then it means something to you,and I think maybe that's the
piece that people have to really, really connect to.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And, like I said, the Rebbe speaks about this a lot.
I feel like go back to thesources.
The Rebbe spoke to us, heshared these messages with us so
that we would be able to liveour lives joyfully and feeling
that, kaddishah, and feelingthat everything we do on a
mandate level is very meaningful.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
But the doing does make us tired, right?
So you're going through thewhole process, right?
So you're going through thewhole the end of Adar, the
beginning of Nisan, the day ofErev, pesach and you come to the
seder and you set thisbeautiful, beautiful, amazing
seder and you sit down andyou're exhausted, you're so
tired, and then your kid needsto nurse and your older kids
(28:04):
need attention and the two youknow middle schoolers are
fighting over who's sitting nextto mommy.
What's your role at the sedertable?
Like aside for chief conflictresolution maker?
Like?
What's your role at the sedertable?
Like aside for chief conflictresolution maker?
Like what's your role in yourexhaustion of just being?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I think it's that it's just being without
expectations of how it shouldlook.
Or you know my kids should bedoing xyz or should not should.
It's a very destructive word.
I think we should get it out ofour vocabulary because when you
have expectations of how it'smeant to be and it doesn't look
quite like that, what you mighthave might be beautiful and
(28:41):
wonderful and your kids willhave wonderful memories and
wonderful experiences.
But if it's not matching up toyour expectations of how it
should be, then it's not goingto feel good and when you get
into that space of it shouldn'tbe this way, it's a terrible
feeling.
You work so hard, you work solong, you put so much into it.
So I really feel, like you said, just being, just be.
(29:01):
It is what it is and it's okay.
It's usually okay.
You know, most circumstancesare okay and fine.
If you can just be and maintainthat sense of calm, then it's
okay.
If you can just be and maintainthat sense of calm, then it's
okay.
And it might take longer, itmight not be as elaborate as you
want it.
Whatever, wherever the like thefallout's going to be, If it's
(29:23):
not in your mood and in the moodof your family, then you're
doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I love that I also learned this is this was
something I learned aftermessing up at least once that
your kids don't actuallyremember all the conflict stuff
that was happening between them.
They don't remember thestruggle that you were like, oh
my gosh, that was the biggeststress.
What they remember is what youput forth, and they remember
what you put forth in positivity.
So, with the songs that yousang oh my gosh, remember the
(29:49):
song that we sang.
They don't remember the reasonyou sang that song was because
they were almost about to killeach other so you started a song
.
They just remember the funnysong that you were like oh
remember I sang this.
They remember what you putforth and I think that that's
such an important lesson.
If you do get stressed that,like my kids laugh at me because
I make up funny songs, theydon't know that every single
time I make a funny song, it'sbecause they're driving me
(30:10):
absolutely crazy, and I have.
Either I'm going to scream atthem or I'm going to make a
crazy song, and we have crazysongs and one of my nieces was
in the house Arab Purim and wewere packing up Shalach Manas
and suddenly I was singing thesong.
She's like what are you doing?
And my kids are like, oh, mommyalways does that.
But they like they thinkhuh-huh, it's so funny, it's
really like it's just a way todeal with things and really
(30:33):
that's the only thing theyremember.
They have no idea why I sing thesongs, and I think that that's
very important for us tounderstand that our kids don't
actually remember the parts thatare stressing us out.
They're going to rememberwhatever we put forth and
whatever we just either repeator we focus on or, you know,
whatever the energy is reallyfocused on, and I think that
that's a very important lessonfor us as well.
(30:54):
So at the table you have abunch of kids.
They all have to share theirHaggadahs and they all have to
share their things.
Are there ways to get kidsinvolved, both the little kids
and the younger kids equally?
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
One thing that we try to do a lot at our table, not
just to stay there but ingeneral is have discussion.
In other words, not just sharea dvaratara, but have discussion
.
You know, what I noticed Isn'tthat interesting?
That it says X, y, Z or like oh, you know, this question just
came to my mind.
Or when a kid shares advaratara, to talk about it with
(31:35):
them, to reflect back, maybe toask a question, not so much to
drive home any particular point,just that we're like let's talk
, let's, you know, let's, let'sshare ideas.
So the savior in particular is Ivery much see it that way that
it's a time of discussion, notnot exactly like, you know,
let's pack in as many differenttire as we can, but we all share
(31:56):
together.
And when you have it at, youknow a spread of ages around the
table, whether it's your ownchildren or guests um, to just
sort of like be cognizant ofeverybody sitting around and
make sure you're sort of liketouching all bases, which means
also that everybody's going tobe patient and we'll stop to
sing the two-year-old song andthen we'll say, okay, this
question is for, you know, thefour-year-old, and let that
(32:19):
child answer it, and thenthey're fine.
But then you have a more adultconversation, let's say with the
teenagers or the preteens orthe actual adults.
It's very organic, I guess, butorganic with a lot of intention
.
The classroom you want to kindof uh sort of scan the room all
the time and make sure that,like you're just noticing
(32:42):
everyone and and hearing fromeverybody at whatever interval.
Uh, it's sort of like that,just keeping an eye on who's at
the table, making sure we're,you know, hearing from everyone
that they're engaged in whateverway.
Um, and there could be sideconversations going on too.
You know that's okay,especially if we tend to have a
lot of people like me you knowit's not a classroom so quietly
(33:04):
and listen, just like some moremore organic, more casual.
But I do think discussion isvery, very important.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's not just share something you learned with us,
it's let's talk about it so Iwant to bring up one other
scenario, which, mark, I'm sureyou've had payoffs like this
where you're maybe just rightafter a birth or there's a
really catchy kid who's notfeeling well and you spend half
the Seder like in a bedroom witha kid.
How do you connect to the Seder, like, let's take our kids out
of the equation, let's just takeour role as mother?
(33:31):
Right, you're the mother.
You literally missed half ofMaggid at least and you're just
speeding through Maggit so youcan serve and catch up to the
family.
How do you connect to whatPesach's really about if you're
really not even at the table?
You're not even being at thetable.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Right.
So one of my children actuallywas born Yadol of Nisa.
I don't even think I sat at thetable, I think I like laid on
the couch next to the table atthe seder.
I don't even.
It's a little fuzzy in my mindto be honest, but I will say I
don't recall feeling like Imissed it.
Again, it goes back to I'mplanted this way.
This is the structure that hegave us.
(34:09):
So if I was immediately postbirth and for me post birth
means I am 100% out ofcommission, like I told my
mother before that baby was born, like I cannot peel up a table
after I have a baby Like it's, Ican do nothing, literally
nothing.
So I no, I wasn't.
It was not my typical Pesach atall, but no, I don't.
(34:30):
I don't recall a sense of beingleft out, because that's that
was the plan for me.
That Pesach and P off is it's.
It's not just about themechanics.
The mechanics is generally howwe get to the inner meaning of
something.
But that inner meaning isalways there and it's due to
whatever circumstances.
Your mechanics are going to bedifferent, like that year.
(34:52):
No, I did not sit at a sedertable at all.
Really I I lay reclined on thecouch.
So I did the reclining thing,which, for however long I held
up to it, that's okay.
This is the Seder for me.
If you have a child that youknow needs you, you know older,
(35:14):
younger, whatever it is, then itmight not feel like the.
Again there goes theexpectation.
It might not feel like how itshould be, but, yes, for you,
this is how it should be, thisis how it is intended to be this
year and it's still Pesach.
I think that is like the justit's so important, like to to
hold onto that.
It's not about the trappings orthe accoutrements or or the way
(35:36):
I mean.
Again, often those are how weget to the inner intent, but it
is still.
It's still Pesach.
It was still Pesach for me thatyear.
It's still a season of rebirth.
If anything, it was more aseason of rebirth, you know of,
of achieving more of of freedom.
It's.
It is a time of Kleros.
Um, I actually I think I feltthat again it's fuzzy, but I
remember in my pregnancy whichwas difficult, looking forward
(35:59):
to, hopefully by Pesach I'mgoing to be done.
You know, I'm going to be at theSeder table and I'm just I'm
going to have this new baby andthat's what happened.
And I think I felt a tremendoussense of freedom just because
of that and that was the wayHashem wanted me to experience
it that year and I got like Idon't want to make it sound like
(36:20):
this isn't a real struggle, Iknow, I know it can be, but it's
like I said, I do believe itstarts in an intellectual place
of understanding and acceptingthat if these are the
circumstances Hashem gave me,then this is how it's meant to
be for me and I can achieveexperience, whatever it is that
I'm meant to in thesecircumstances.
Experience, whatever it is thatI'm meant to in these
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I love how the refrain in this conversation of
Pesach is letting go of theexpectations, because in there
you're actually achievingfreedom, and in the freedom is
the whole idea of Pesach.
So in letting go of theexpectations of, oh it should be
, oh, it needs to be, oh it hasto, oh we need to follow this,
in a certain way, we kind ofachieve exactly what Pesach is
(37:04):
all about.
Let's go back a second.
So Maki's the principal of ahigh school and I think that
every single year I hear motherstalk about how long Pesach
vacation is, especially fortheir high schoolers.
And what are they actuallydoing their entire Pesach
vacation?
Are they actually helping theirmothers?
(37:24):
Are they supposed to actuallybe helping their mothers?
Why do kids have such a lot,especially high school kids have
such a long vacations?
And where do parents find thebalance of setting expectations
reachable expectations for theirchildren versus overwhelming
(37:45):
their children?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
So first of all, I mean just from a school
perspective we typically endcloser to Pesach than many other
high schools do.
We usually end around Vav orZion Nissan.
A lot of schools end earlierthis year because of the way
Shabbos falls out.
We're a little earlier thanusual, but I do think like a
week, eight days, nine days, 10days, I do think that's a
(38:08):
reasonable time for you'retalking about a teenage girl.
Yeah, she should be homehelping and again, it's not just
about helping you, it's alsoabout she's gonna do this
herself one day.
She should know about she'sgoing to do this herself one day
.
She should know how.
She should be empowered, sheshould have the skills and the
confidence to to do Pesach onher own because she's practiced.
But it's also it's it's justlike I said, part of being a
(38:29):
responsible adult, and you knowit's okay.
Kids don't have to likeeverything we tell them to do,
like they.
You know when, when they'relittle, they don't want to brush
their teeth.
One of my boys hates showeringwith a passion.
I know when he grows up he'sgoing to be clean and British,
but it's because I make himshower now and eventually he's
going to integrate that into hishobbies and his skill set, and
(38:50):
it's okay that he doesn't likewhen I tell him to shower now he
still has to do it.
I don't like when you tell themto clean their room.
They don't like when you tellthem to clean their room.
They don't like when you tellthem to do homework.
It's okay, like I do believe.
I see, I see a lot.
There's a lot of fear inparenting nowadays that we were
afraid to tell our kids to dosomething they don't want to do.
It's okay, that's our job.
We need to communicate again,calmly.
(39:12):
I think calm is so, soimportant Lovingly firmly.
We need lovingly firmly.
We need to have a lot ofpatience because we might need
to see the same things again andagain and again and again.
And that's normal because ourkids.
But it's it's really okay tohave and necessary, I think, to
have expectations of yourchildren, especially your
teenage children.
I have teenage daughters aswell and they help a lot.
(39:37):
They do and they do also.
You know, every mother has tofigure this out what's the
rhythm of your household?
But try to take their needs,their personalities into account
.
If you can say, would yourather do this or that, you know
, that's great if you can dothat, um, if you can say
different kids react todifferent things.
But some, some children want toknow, like, okay, what do you
want me to do and when will I bedone?
So I need you to do uh, a and band that's it.
(40:00):
Or, um, for the half hour canyou do x and you could take a
break again.
Like for some kids that's not sohelpful, for some it is.
You kind of try to have to seewhat speaks to your children.
So take them into account byall means, um, and obviously he
should never be their burden,but they, they, yeah, they
should be helping.
They can both, because theyneed to learn themselves to do
(40:23):
this.
They need these skills, part ofbeing a capable adult.
Because they are in a family,they should be team players.
This is we should all arrive atPesach, you know, feeling like
we joined together and pulledoff something amazing.
It's quite so gratifying thatmy kids made that chart, that
Pays Off cleaning chart, becausethey were taking ownership of
the first step of the process.
(40:44):
Like, pays Off is something weall do together and that's an
invaluable feeling for a familymember to have that we do this
as a team.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I think that's such an important lesson and I do
think that, like, I go intoschools a lot and I speak to
parents whenever I go intoschool and I think that we've
lost this part of it, honestly,like not to sound like, oh my
gosh, you know, something'swrong with parents today.
But I remember I was speakingto someone.
Someone had called me a parentis not related to me going into
(41:16):
school.
Someone had called me and shesaid oh, do you know anyone who
can help me?
She had three little kids and ateenager.
You know someone who could comeby and help me?
And I said what do you mean?
Don't you have, like a teenagedaughter?
She's like yeah, but she's onvacation.
I can't ask her to do anything.
And I was like what do you mean?
So you're going to hire someoneelse's mouth, like I?
(41:42):
I didn't get it and I was likeam I missing something?
Like I have.
My older kids are boys, they'renot girls, but I would never
like be okay with them nothelping.
My boys cook, my boys clean, myboys do what they need to do.
It's not related to theirgender.
It has to do with the fact,like you said, we all live in a
home.
I'm not the cleaning lady,they're not the cleaning lady,
it's irrelevant whether we havea cleaning lady.
We all enjoy the perks ofliving in our home, so we all
help.
I mean, like aside for the lifeskill part is just, this is a
(42:05):
home for all of us and so you'renot a guest in the home, we all
help.
So it was just a veryinteresting thing to me and as
I've gone to schools I've kindof seen more and more of the
same type of refrain of likewe're coddling our children and
in a very big way, like theycan't fail, and they can't.
You know, the expectationscan't be too high and I don't
know if maybe we've gone to theopposite end of where a
(42:29):
generation ago maybe was, whereyou know we're more in tune with
their mental health needs andwe want to make sure that
they're taken care of, but maybewe've gone too far.
So just talking a little bitabout the mental health needs
and I think you kind of touchedon it, but not really so I want
to just give it a little bitmore attention.
What if your kid is having areally stressful year and they
do need this break?
(42:49):
This has to be some sort ofbreak for them to reset, so that
they could go back into schooland go back into the life that
maybe is more stressful for them?
Where do you find the balance ofyes, we're all a family.
Yes, we all have to help.
Yes, these are yourexpectations, but I'd like to
give you a vacation.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right.
So when we say a kid isstruggling, that's an extremely
vague and broad title.
I think that the idea is not somuch to give your kid a
vacation, it's to address theneed that that child has.
So your child is strugglingwith what?
What's the struggle?
Does he or she not feelaccomplished?
(43:29):
Are they having a hard timesocially?
Let's try to hone in on whatthe issue is.
And then the vacation is notabout a vacation.
I mean, it's not aboutmindlessly doing nothing.
It's about is there any way wecan try to fill that need?
Or if, for whatever reason,that is impossible, that we can,
you know, really like, boost orbuild up another area to give
(43:51):
them there in that area, thatwill kind of spill over and sort
of or at least for now, coverup, not cover up and, like you
know, shove it under the rug,but we'll help them where
they're lacking.
So if let's say, if a kid ishaving a hard time in school,
let's just say, like typical,like you know, just struggling
in school, academically it'shard, it's a lot of work, I
(44:13):
really don't think what theyneed is to do nothing, certainly
not for a week or two weeks,maybe, like you know, the first
day off of school.
You want a day off, hang out,relax, no problem.
Do they want to sleep in?
You know, I think teenagehood,you know that's the time.
But sleep in until what time?
If you're not feelingaccomplished in school because
you're struggling and you don'tfeel like this is the place
(44:34):
where I can really shine, then,honestly, face-off cleaning is a
great opportunity where.
Give them a job they can do,notice how well they do it,
reflect to them how much howwell they did it, point out that
they worked hard on it.
Telling them to do nothing, notgiving them a chance to feel
that sense of accomplishment, toactually accomplish, you're not
(44:56):
filling their need so thatthey're what they're lacking in
terms of like.
Where is their mental healthbeing challenged?
It's, every human being needsto feel accomplished.
Give them that and and it couldbe in you know, so many other
areas find something that theycan do and help them be
successful at that.
But it's not that they just needa break.
It's that they need somethingspecific and try to figure out
(45:17):
what that thing is.
Try to give it to them.
Um, the experience just goingback to this and being part of a
family.
Um, a lot of kids also need asense of um, for whatever reason
, they might not be getting itin their social group or in
their peer system.
They might not be getting thesense of I am a solidly a part
of a bigger unit.
A family is a beautiful biggerunit to be a part of, and if
they can feel that sense of weall did this together that that
(45:40):
provides tremendous security andand just stability, internal
stability that a kid needs tohave.
So, again, it's not aboutedging out and doing nothing.
It's what can I give them, whatopportunity, what circumstances
can I create for them that willaddress the lack that they're
feeling?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
that's very interesting.
It's like a very interestingflip on what I think people
expect, which is to, instead ofgiving them nothing, you're
giving them jobs that they canalmost enter maybe a leadership
position or they can at least belike co-managing something and
solidly feeling good about that.
And that's a very interestingflip on, I think, what people
(46:21):
might expect when we're talkingabout involving our children.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Or maybe that's good with little kids.
You know, have them entertained.
If you have little ones, havethem.
Entertain them for some time.
Like most people, everybody cando something.
Everybody has their thing wherethey're really shy, notice it,
appreciate it, take the time tothink about how they contributed
and to express verbally howthey contributed, and they need
(46:45):
you to like write their storyfor them in those terms.
You did X, y, z and the impactof that is you know, whatever it
is, and what does that sayabout you as a person?
What personality trait were youjust expressing?
They need to hear all thosethings about you as a person.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
What personality trait were you just expressing?
They need to hear all thosethings.
That's so beautiful.
So, malky, as we come to theend of our conversation here, I
think there were so muchpositive things that every
single mother, no matter whatage and stage they're at, really
really can benefit from hearing, whether your kids are really
little, or whether you haveolder kids and younger kids, or
whether you're just deep in thetrenches of an early pregnancy,
(47:22):
where you're tired or whateverit is.
I think that there were so manysteps here along the road, and
even if you don't have childrenand you are just a woman, what's
our job as women, as we'regoing into this Pesach season
and I'm not calling it a Yadavanymore, it's the whole Pesach
season.
There were so many gifts herein this conversation.
If you had to leave ourlisteners with one thought about
(47:45):
Pesach, what would that thoughtbe?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I think that I feel that I've probably said this
already, but this is my thoughtabout Pesach that we are so
lucky, we are so, so lucky tohave this Yom Tif, to have this
season.
The whole month of Nisan is aseason to have this time, to
have every season and every YomKippur that Hashem gets us
(48:09):
Particularly.
Honestly, since this war in ourTisrael started, I have been
feeling so strongly we are theluckiest people in the world
that Ashren, that that we areusing, that we have a tyra that
guides our life, that we have acalendar that we we can live
this way, that we always havehashem to turn to.
And pesach is is one of thosegifts, and if we can relate to
(48:30):
it as a gift, then just imagineliving through this month as if
you're appreciating a gift, abeautiful gift that you've been
given every day.
It's it really we we have.
It's a gift and we areprivileged that we have this
time.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I love that.
So, during this time, as wefocus on rebirth and as we focus
on expressing parts of us inthe physicality that's around us
and the freedom of connectingto Ruchnius in a way that's
elevated, I really want to wisheveryone a Kasha and Freilich
and Pesach a happy, healthy,connected Pesach, where we
(49:07):
connect to all parts of ourfamily unit and to our identity
as Jewish women.
Thank you for joining me onthis past hour.
I'm so glad that you found ourpodcast and that we got to spend
the time together.
If you would like to nominateyourself or someone you know for
(49:28):
a topic that they areinterested, feel passionate
about or you feel passionateabout, reach out to us at info
at bodysoulscom.
Remember that's two S's.
If you have any feedback aboutthe work we're doing or if you
would like to connect, you canuse the same email.
I hope you have a wonderful,uplifting and amazing day.
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