December 24, 2023 • 50 mins
Imagine living a life where every step outside your door, every word spoken, could be a risk to your freedom, even your life. Rivka Sirota, who grew up as a Jewish girl in communist Russia, courageously opens up about this stark reality in our latest episode.
This episode goes beyond Rivka's personal saga to touch on our own stories, where anti-semitism and hate is mired in our world today. Rivka's insights serve as a source of encouragement and inspiration, reinforcing that as staunch Jews, we can overcome the most daunting challenges. Join us for this soul-stirring journey, where Emunah and a deep trust in Hashem acts as a guiding force.
To sponsor an episode of Bodies & Souls, email us at
info@bodiessouls.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi and welcome to our podcast, bodies and Souls
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarski.
Today we have a new seriesstarting.
We're going to be discussingJewish people throughout the
ages and actually really not solong ago, because all of the
(00:29):
people that we have lined up arefairly young.
We're going to talk about whatpersecution meant, what
persecution means, what being alight in the midst of darkness
means.
We're going to talk aboutcontinuing to live in the most
elevated way, even when thingsare not as elevated and bright
(00:50):
and shiny as they should be andcould be.
So today we have and I thinkthis is before we actually
introduce our guest today Ithink this is a very timely
discussion because for a longtime we thought that we were
living the dream, we weren'tliving with persecution and we
weren't living with hatred andwe weren't living with trials
(01:11):
and tribulations for sure herein the United States, and we
felt very blessed.
And then October 7th happenedand it brought into light that
the whole dar-v-dur, in everysingle generation I'm Demelaine
O'Hallytze they come and theychallenge us and they seek to
challenge our way of life, and Iwant to talk to several women
(01:32):
who've gone through deeplypersonal journeys and let it
shed light into our everydayexistence today in a
post-October 7th world, and howwe could bring these women and
the lessons that they've learnedinto our day to day now.
So, without further ado, ourguest today is Rivka Sarota.
(01:54):
Rivka actually shared part ofwhat we're going to be
discussing around my Shavastable months ago and as soon as
I heard and my kids all stoppedin their place and listened to
Rivka I said wait, wait, wait.
These are stories that we thinkis like four generations above
us three generations, andRivka's not that much older than
(02:17):
we are.
So I want to talk to Rivkaabout her life journey.
So, rivka, before we start,tell us a little bit about what
you're doing today and then takeus back to where your story
starts.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So today we live in Denver, colorado.
Where are the emissaries of theLubavitcher Rebbe, recent
Lubavitcher Rebbe, and AhmenosNair and Samdas here in 1980 and
we work here with the Russiancommunity?
I came from Russia in 1971 toIsrael and in Russia when we
(02:55):
lived the Jewish life we had aChabadosh in that house but it
was all a secret under the table, so to speak.
We live as from Jews andoutside the people were not
allowed to know that we live aJewish life because it was
against the law, it was acommunism then in the 60s and
(03:18):
you're not allowed to practiceany religion, for sure not
Jewish.
So when I was a child in the60s we had to go to school.
It was illegal to homeschool,like here.
People could homeschool and theRussian authorities would come
to my parents and tell them youhave a child this age and
(03:40):
because they have records it wasborn this year.
And they say, how come, thenI'm in school, then I'm not old
and I'm in school.
So my parents tried to delay usfrom going to school because it
would mean a lot of trouble notgoing on Chabadosh and holidays,
and those years school inRussia was from Monday to
Saturday to Chabadosh, only oneday off or Sunday.
(04:01):
So our parents send us alldifferent schools, all our girls
, our sisters.
We went to morning school, Iwent to morning school, my
sister went to afternoon school,my sister went to evening
school.
They shouldn't see that everysingle Chabadosh, all the girls
from the same family, from theZalsons family, get sick because
(04:21):
we didn't go to school.
Every Chabadosh, every youngkid.
So Chabadosh in our house was aminion like 20, 30 people that
my father and my mother ran andwhen the meeting was over about
1230, we had a knock on ourwindow because the principal
from the school would knock onthe door and on the window and
(04:42):
ask my father where, how come wedidn't go to school?
We would jump right to bedpretending we are sick and my
father would tell them I don'tknow what kind of excuse my
mother had to go to the doctorand get notes that we needed an
extra day off a week and that'swhy we didn't go to school on
(05:04):
Chabadosh, supposedly so theywere also smart.
I said why don't you stay homeon Wednesday?
How come you need to stay onChabadosh?
My mother told him my husbandis home this day, so I want to
spend time with the kids.
So my mother went to thedoctors and took notes that we
need an extra day off for ourrest, for our mental health, and
(05:26):
my mother constantly broughtthem presents, brought them to
keep them quiet, not to maketrouble.
But I remember when I was goinghome one Friday afternoon, when
I was leaving school, theteacher asked me what excuse is
going to bring me that Monday,that tomorrow you're not going
to be in school?
They already knew that we wereorthodox Jews, or they were
(05:47):
suspecting.
And I remember my father tookme to school on the bike every
morning he told me you have tobe an excellent student, you
have to get all the grades Abecause they're going to say,
because you miss one day a week,every single week, that's why
you can be excellent.
So we had to work very hard andwe liked school, we liked
(06:11):
learning, but we didn't like theeducation they gave us.
Every morning in school we hadto sing a song about Lenin.
They made them like into aguest, like an idol that they
had to sing that we wake up inthe morning in his picture
smiles at us like they were allbrainwashing the kids that there
is no God and everybody knowsthe joke.
(06:35):
One time the teacher in Russiawas saying you see the desk?
Yes, there's a desk.
You see the chair.
There is a chair.
You see a student, there is astudent.
You don't see God means thereis no God.
So one Jewish boy stood up andsaid more, can I say something?
And he said, yes, do you seethe teacher?
(06:56):
Yeah, you see her head.
Yeah, do you see her brains?
No, that means she has nobrains.
So a Jewish kid tried to tellthe other kids that if you don't
see something doesn't mean it'snot there.
I remember it just.
Life in Russia was verystressful, I would say, because
(07:17):
besides our home, there was ashow.
My parents also kept a securityshiva.
So we, the girls, went toschool.
My brother Nahiz, I had Shliikhin Toronto, rabbi Yossif
Zaltzman.
I had Shliikh of the Russiancommunity.
He has like 10 rabbis workingfor him.
He never went to school becauseit's harder for a boy.
(07:39):
He was the oldest, he wassupposed to go to school before
us, but it's harder for a boy tosend to school because they can
where are Yarmulke?
They can where it says.
So my parents sent them to adifferent city in Tashkent we
used to live in Summerkhand andsomebody had a shiva there in
somebody's home and he was like10 years old and it was very
hard for him.
(08:00):
He was missing home a lot andafter a while he called my
parents and he said if you don'tbring me home, I'm just gonna
walk, and it's three hoursflight.
My parents brought him home andthey decided they have to open
our own shiva in our home andthat's how our shiva at home was
funded.
My parents found tons of boysfrom Ukraine and Russia, from
(08:23):
the neighborhood and from faraway.
We had like about 20 boys thaton top of our six kids my mother
was raising.
My mother, we became a motherof our 20 teenage boys and they
all live in our house.
We had like one big room thatall the boys stayed there, lived
there and my father got themtutors and it was a shiva in
that house.
(08:43):
So we were like raised in ashiva environment, an oxidation
environment.
My father was for bringing withthem.
So it was very different, likewhen we came home we were open
Jews.
When we came to school we werehidden Jews.
Pesa, chalamoy, we went toschool with matzo sandwiches.
One time in afternoon we usedto go get music lessons.
(09:07):
I learned how to play piano andIsrael learned how to play
accordion.
So one time I didn't lock thedoor and the neighbors the
Russians were always after us,so the gate was not locked to
the front yard and they came inand my sister was home.
She gave a sign to all theshiva boys to hide.
(09:28):
We had like in the big backyardit was like a garage and this is
where the boys were learning.
So they all went to hide.
There was like a big pit forthe potatoes for the winter.
They were all hiding in the pitand she covered it and then he
walked in the room.
So it was like a room, it waslike a big garage, it was like a
big room.
(09:49):
It was like a shiva.
There was chomashim and Sidurimon the table and he asked her
what is this?
And she knew to hold it upsidedown, but then she can't read it
.
But we knew how to read itbecause my mother was teaching
us after school how to readHebrew and understand Hebrew.
And she said oh, it's my oldgrandfather's books, so it's not
(10:11):
your folder, born Jewish.
As long as you don't teach itto your kids, then you're fine.
He looked around, he snuckedaround, then he left and then my
mother never told this story tomy father because he would be
very worried that after us it'slike a lot of stress because if
they find my father, if theycatch him, that he's doing a big
(10:32):
crime, that he's teaching notjust his kids but other people
which he might not be able topractice or teach.
He'll practice and you teach.
So she didn't want to worry him, so she didn't tell him.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What was the big deal ?
Just for clarity, what was thebig deal?
I mean, like communism, okay,it's hard, right, so you weren't
allowed to go to a Jewishschool, you went to a public
school, but what was just?
So we understand the fullpicture of what like.
And this is in the 1960s, it'snot in the 1920s, right?
(11:06):
This is like what was thepicture like for your family?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
like had someone found out about what they were
doing and what were the optionsfor them If they find out my
parents were doing, they wouldsend them to Siberia and it
would be the end of them becauseit's a big crime against the
government.
So it was very big stress formy parents.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What they have done with the kids.
Would they have taken the kidslike sent the kids also to
Siberia, or like sent the kidsto?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
They probably would take the kids to their
ministries and it was very riskyfor my parents.
They felt like their life is onthe line but they kept kind of.
That must have been a selfish.
There is the life every day byteaching us and teaching other
kids and having Minion in thehouse and when they would leave
them at home after the Minionthey will each one will walk
(11:57):
like 20 minutes apart.
They should not see that abunch of Jews living there means
they have an organized religionthere which was not allowed to.
It was like a very scary, riskytime that we lived under.
So my parents felt it more.
We just knew it's not.
This is not right.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What did you do about kosher food?
Like, obviously you didn't goto the local kosher supermarket.
So what was the there was nokosher supermarket.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So what we did?
There was no kosher Jewishschools.
So my parents, my father, askedmy uncle to come after school.
They were teaching us Hommishand the translation.
My mother taught us to read andwrite in Hebrew and also the
Hebrew language.
We had a Sheik had come to ourhouse once a month and he would,
sheik had like a cow, a lot ofchickens.
(12:45):
And then we were divided by allthe families who kept kosher,
who kept, who were practicing tobe from under the table.
And this story was my mother wasstanding outside by the faucet
and she was cashing, she wasrinsing the meat, she was
cashing the meat and she seesone of the people who came.
(13:06):
It was around four o'clock, soeverybody's standing, shmonesere
, and we had a big sunroom.
It was like open window, it'slike the whole room was from
windows.
So if she walked another 50steps she would see them
standing.
Shmonesere and my mother can'tmake them move.
Because then Shmonesere, sheran with her quick says oh,
(13:27):
wishes dog, you're a wishes dog,quick, go back.
And she locked the door behindher.
One came in.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
While she was in middle of cashing the meat,
someone came into the yard.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, the teacher.
My sister didn't go to schoolthat day so the teacher decided
to pay a visit.
So she was coming into thebackyard, into that house, to
visit my mother and speak goingon, what's going on.
But my mother saw her.
She gonna push her away andlock the door because she wanted
to protect all the peopleinside from her because if she
(14:00):
was telling over the news whatshe saw, my parents' life would
be in danger.
So my mother ran in and shequick changed because she was in
the house coat and took her andtook her far away from the home
like blocks and blocks in thecenter of the city, just to take
it away.
So when the people finisheddowning and each one would take
(14:24):
like an hour or more to leavethe house because they need to
take 20 minutes apart untileverybody leaves, she didn't
want them to see people leavingthe minions.
So she realized the skirt is onthe wrong side of the upside
down.
But she took her far away fromhome just to keep the people in
the downing safe.
(14:44):
One time it's in Joseira, inthat house.
So they were dancing till fouro'clock in the morning.
The next morning they wereasking my mother.
So what was so noisy last night?
People were singing, what wereyou guys doing?
And my mother said oh, myhusband had a birthday and his
friends came over so they werecelebrating.
Like everything had to be.
(15:06):
Very like kosher, you can't sayanything religious to do.
My brother, legally, was noteven in the city, like a game of
different name, because if heplayed in the backyard we called
his name, the neighborsconstantly snooping and
listening and they knew theywould check that he's not
enrolled in a public school.
There was a big crime.
So legally he was in adifferent city going to school
(15:27):
there.
But he was hiding like formonths and months.
He just didn't leave the house.
They shouldn't see him becausethey were like, after checking
it was very risky and very scaryfor us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's a story of religious freedom, like a lack
of religious freedom, but inaddition to the lack of like
religious freedom and the lackof the ability to practice
openly, as you did, and topractice openly as from you,
then there was also an elementof like physical insecurity.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Right, because a lot of times my brother, when we did
go out at night to visit hisfriends, he came home all beaten
with the red face and bloodbecause they were just calling
him rigid, like means dirty Jew,and beat him up just for the
sake of it.
I remember I was walking homeone time, because we walk home
(16:19):
back from school like half anhour.
It was safe to walk home, buton the other side of the street
there was some guy called Zridlike that also means a dirty Jew
.
We were scared.
We walk home fast.
It was also safety, becauseonce they know you're doing some
unilateral, it can hurt yourphysical safety as well, not
(16:40):
just the spiritual.
Be free to practice yourYiddish kite.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Was there indoctrination in the schools,
like anti-Jewish thoughts thatwere the kids were taught
routinely in the public schoolsthat you were going to Like and
did you as a child feel likeunsafe in the playground?
Like I know, today I have afriend who's living in Vienna
and she actually lives in acommunity without a Jewish
school and her kids go to apublic school and just yesterday
(17:08):
she was telling me that hersix-year-old was beaten up for
being Jewish.
So I wonder if, like theparallel of that, like you're a
child, obviously a Jewish child,I think did your friends know
you were Jewish?
Did you have friends in school,like if you were that separate,
like as a child growing up inthat environment?
What was your experience like?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I didn't think I had friends.
Friends, I just went to schoolbecause I had to go to school.
Obviously, I learned somesecular subjects but I didn't
keep them as friends.
They were Russian.
They were not Jewish, they wereMuslim Russian.
They were regular Christians.
They were very pro-Russian Some, I remember the teacher was
asking who are you and who areyou?
(17:49):
And one beautiful girl.
She said I am Uzbek, which is aRussian Muslim.
She said no, you're Christian,you're a Russian, because the
Christian was supposed to be abetter race than the Muslims and
you can't be Muslim.
I was not friends with them.
I knew better than that.
I just did school and went homeand I was friends with my
brothers and sisters, people inthe community that were from in,
(18:12):
our cousins.
They got to get on Chavez.
I remember one time I didn'traise my hand, I spoke out of
line or something like.
Was that asking permission?
She would just like grab me outof my seat and throw me in the
corner in front of the wholeclass.
There was like 40 kids in theclass.
Again, the classroom.
Yeah, they were not making mefeel good.
They were.
(18:33):
We had to wear when you were inthe beginning, when you were
younger you had to wear like astar with a means of your
communists, like with thelantern picture.
When you're older, you have towear like a red tie.
He shows a new pan need ofcommunism and when we came home
(18:55):
my brother would burn it on thefire when we took it off.
So no, I'm not allowed in myhouse burned it up.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Kids, mom, friends.
They wanna feel accepted intheir social situations.
You clearly were the otherperson there.
And then you're coming home andthere's all these other
feelings like what did that dofor you?
I mean, I'm sure you thoughtabout this as an adult raising
your own children and seeing howimportant the social aspect of
this is for a child's psyche InRussia.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
We wouldn't want to do anything, so we were stronger
in being thrown, because that'swhere the going was pushing us
towards.
You know what I mean here.
When my kids were raised, it'smore free and there's a lot of
choices that they could do, butwe brought them up in such a way
that they know the right thingto do.
Even there's a lot of choices,they pick up and the right
(19:47):
choice to do and we pushed thekids to be friends.
Of course it's a very big.
We send them to be nosed and tobe leaders and to do counselors
and everything like that,because that's a big fact in a
kid's psyche.
I don't know.
In Russia I guess we knew thisis wrong.
We knew they're not our friends.
We kind of live a double lifein Russia.
(20:08):
In school we were just peopleand at home we were from it.
You know, like I said, we hadcousins and other from people
that live the same life as us,that we were close but we didn't
see them every day.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
How many other from people lived in Tashkent in
Samarkand?
It was Samarkand right.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, also, there's a family, there are families
lived in the same way.
If they would come to ArmeniaShabas yeah, the kids lived in
the same way.
They also would go to school,but they weren't friends.
There were a lot of familieslike this in Samarkand.
Like 10 or 20 families.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's a lot of families.
10 or 20 is not a lot, that'svery little.
So you feel like you still arenot part of this like large
community.
10 or 20 families are stillrather small.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, because these families we can't tell everybody
that we're from under the tableSome even Jews who couldn't
trust because they're gonna tellon you.
So we only trusted.
We're only very close to thepeople who were from in their
home, who lived the same life asus.
Sometimes I met my father saidhe didn't even tell my
(21:18):
grandfather, his father, aboutthe Isheba because it was so
risky.
You know who's listening.
You know who's talking.
You know there was a very bigsecret.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So your grandfather did not know that there was a
Isheba in your home.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Eventually he found out.
He knew because when they cameto check on us, my father
transferred the Isheba to mygrandfather's house for a few
days.
They came to investigate andwere checking and nobody was
there because we put all theboys in that house.
They had to be transferred atnight and they just stopped.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Okay.
So as a college teacher, I haveto ask what about mikvah?
So mikvah there.
Is it really as dramatic as itsounds?
Like they made a hole in thewater and they went in the ice?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
That's my mother, went in the ice in the winter.
So when they just got married,they got married in Samarkand,
because my father's parents wentthere after they were born in
Harkov.
They went to Samarkand duringthe World War II.
They stayed there.
And when my parents got marriedin Samarkand they went to the
Shembe for two years.
(22:21):
So there was no mikvah.
So my mother said that shewould go to the rivers and it
was very cold in the winter togo in the ocean.
It was like very scared, itcould be animal.
And she told my father I can'tdo it anymore, we have to build
a mikvah.
So my father was fundraisingfor a lot of money and the
building mikvah in Dushanbe andits functions till today and
(22:46):
people that live there go there.
And I heard that.
And then when we moved toSamarkand later, two years after
they moved to Samarkand and thehouse, I remember I envisioned
it.
I could see every room, thebackyard.
It's like engraving my family.
But I remember we wanna go backthere.
Like I don't have good feelingsto Russia, and my kids said I
wanna go live in Russia.
I said absolutely not.
(23:07):
Anyway, we had a gigantic.
My parents built a giganticpole in our backyard.
It was one very deep and onemore shallow for kids and it was
attached, so we knew where wehad to.
In the summer we would makeraces, swimming from one end to
the other end and who would gofirst.
In the every Shabbos morning myfather planted evergreen trees
(23:30):
and every Shabbos morning hesaid we should stay in the house
, not go to the backyard,because before the meeting all
the men would go to the mikvaand every evening, when my
mother would take, ladies wouldcome and she would take him to
the pool.
Mikva, this was our mikva.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
So it was a sculpture mikva disguised as a pool.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Disguised as a pool.
Yeah, it was very big.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It wasn't just a average pool.
It was built as a mikva, justthe size of a pool.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, they're very big, very big, yeah.
So some people over there weretabling, some people drowned and
were saved.
You know they tabling and theylost control because one part
was very deep and his grandsonwas watching him and he jumped
in and pulled him out.
He was saved, like cousinfamilies.
(24:17):
Yeah, mikva was the pool thatmy parents built.
But after my mother had a lotof years trauma, or before even
the mikva in Dusanbe that shecouldn't, until they were
building it, she couldn't goanymore in their ocean.
So she would go on a train,like for two days, 36 hours, to
(24:38):
a different city, to Moscow.
She would go to the mikva, thenshe would sleep over in the
hotel and take the train to gotwo days back until they had a
real mikva that you could use.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
How many children were in your family?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So we had seven children, six in Russia and one
more were born my youngestbrother.
He's now a peddler in NewJersey.
He's working with my father inSlechis.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
How old were you when you went to Israel?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I was 13 years old.
I remember my bus mate.
So I was in Russia late atnight.
Oh, and cousins, everybody came.
My mother made a lot of foodand everybody was dancing and
celebrating and yeah.
So then I went to Israel.
I did seven, eight grade, middleschool, high school, was left
in Parjabad, two year seminaryand then I went to New York to
the Baal Treve.
(25:25):
But I went to the Reve rightaway.
The first summer when we movedto Israel it was in July and for
Elo in August I already went tothe Reve for Tishra.
So I remember the first time Iwent to Icheh to see the Reve
when I was 13 years old.
I remember sending a linesaying Tilling, like for a
couple hours before we went inand then I went myself.
(25:48):
I remember the Reve made mefeel so good and gave me
breakfast.
You should go on, mikhail, youshould go from strength to
strength in everything.
In Gashmi's and Rukhmi's I feltlike the Reve gave me breakfast
to continue and do.
Then, when I finished school,like almost every year or so, I
went to the Reve for Tishra.
When I finished seminary I wentto the Reve again and then I
(26:11):
asked the Reve if she could goback.
The Reve said I should stay andI was looking for a job to
start teaching because Ifinished my seminary practice,
teaching the seminary,everything, and I got my first
job in Morriston Jersey.
I was teaching in a hater there, preschool, kindergarten, first
grade and for a couple ofmonths.
And then they were coming to mefrom Al-Ataira Every night.
(26:35):
They were calling me that theywant to open a new class in
honor of your Tshva.
The Reve told the Reve they'reopening a new class with Russian
kids from Brighton Beach andthey want me to come and teach
and said I just signed acontract with them.
I'm already all busy.
They call me for two monthsevery night and I was living
with my aunt, my mother's sister, miriam Cogan, and her house
(26:58):
and she said look, you're living, 5.30 in the morning, it's
still dark in the winter.
You're coming 7.30 at night,it's already dark.
You don't have a life.
Why don't you come work here inNew York so you'll be able to
leave eight o'clock, you'll behome at four o'clock, you'll
please to see the sunlight inthe winter.
So after a while I took thatjob and I was teaching in the
(27:20):
whole Russian class on East NewYork.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
They just came out of Russia.
They didn't know any English.
I was teaching them AldulavaYiddish, although they were,
like my own kids, Teaching themin Hebrew, Yiddish, in Russian,
in English all the languages.
That's so cute.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So if we forward to today, today you're, you know,
barchashem a Bobby, a mother,many children.
You're running a verysuccessful, beautiful, wonderful
, you know school of your ownand your own slachos and you
have a nice, comfortable,beautiful, holy life.
Fast forward straight to likethe times that we find ourselves
(27:58):
in now.
Do you see any parallels orlessons that women can learn
today from the experiences thatyou had as a child growing up in
Russia?
Have we become desensitized tothe lessons that Jews have lived
with throughout all the years?
Do we need to?
You know how do we focus?
(28:18):
And really I don't know if youcould say make the most out of
this, because there's nothinggood Like we need Mashiach and
that's really where it's at.
But are there lessons that weshould learn based on your own
personal life experience?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So when I was a child , there were brainwashed with me
about Lenin and before andafter, and he wanted to kill all
the Jews and he didn't let themto be free.
And Lenin is not here today.
Stalin is not here today.
All the evening are hereflourishing, having kids, having
grandkids, having Jewish Mosessending kids to Hebrew schools,
(28:54):
to Jewish schools.
We will be there forever.
We have to know be very strong,keep our midst with us.
And because we were brought upin a Hasidic environment, like
my parents, got it from theirparents because my grandparents
were sluching of the FridikeRevolt, the Sixth Leviature
Revolt, the previous Revolt inRussia, and they got it from
(29:16):
their own parents that we haveto do what our son wants us to
do.
We have to remember we are Edenand we always will win.
We always will prevail.
We have to do the Mitzvahs andthe Hasidic God really keeps us
alive.
With the Mitzvahs there willalways be a sub-Sanlyakov and we
(29:39):
are like a sheep among sevenwolves and Hashem will always
protect us and look what theytry to do with us.
Unfortunately, we are familiarto this history that we're going
through now with the Holocaust,with the pogroms in Russia and
this Yisrael.
It was like a pogrom, the worstpogrom ever been.
Hashem wants us to stay true tothe Mitzvahs and stay strong,
(30:00):
and we will win.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
It was very interesting.
So my great grandfather, wecalled him Papa.
He came from Russia after thepogroms, like in the end of the
1800s, beginning of the 1900s.
His father was a fromyid.
He came with 10 children to theUnited States.
He died shortly afterwards.
The kids were not from nobodyended up from.
(30:24):
So what's very interesting to meis a lot of times when Yis
didn't suffer, either they werereally really strong like your
parents were, or they attemptedto assimilate in the hopes that
then we'll be safe, then we'llbe okay, then nobody will come
and get to us.
Obviously, Papa obviously heldonto his Jewish identity because
(30:44):
almost all of his descendantsnow are fromyidin.
I wonder what it is that inthis particular conflict, almost
across the board, everyone'sactively trying to connect and I
think that this is actuallyreally unique.
You said like there's parallelsto every single generation
where people stood up and triedto destroy us.
(31:05):
But there were certain portionsof the population that continue
to connect to their Yiddishguide and certain portions that
went away.
But I think in this particularconflict, almost across the
board, jews are really trying toconnect to their Judaism in a
very real way and I think thatthat almost makes this unique.
Not everybody can stand.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's very hard, nisayin, it's very hard
experiment to stand, to be ableto be from when people persecute
you.
So a lot of people during theHolocaust also thought if
they're not from, they don'tkeep the mitzvahs, the Nazis
will leave them alone.
But unfortunately they killedall the Jews, even the warm from
, just because their Jews burnedthem.
That's a very good topic thatyou touched, because I think
(31:47):
it's important to have thewarmth and the excitement of
Hossie the scribe, because mygrandfather, my father's father,
nisayin the Romzalsman, when hewas a child, his mother sent
him to a sheba when he was 10years old and this was the Rebbe
Marashe Sheba and he had 11kids at home and he was missing
(32:14):
his family tremendously.
He was a little kid, 10 yearsold boy, he's like a baby and he
missed his parents and missedhis siblings and he couldn't
learn.
He was acting out and havingfun.
One day he brought a goat toSheba and nobody found it and he
found vodka.
He gave it vodka and the goatwas going wild and all the
(32:35):
students were having a ball.
And when the Sheba Rebbe cameto ask what's going on here,
they all said it's a bramble.
It's a little bramble that hedid that.
So he said you did such thing,I'm gonna expel you from Sheba.
And they wanted to stride himout and he didn't know what to
do when it was him and anotherfriend, so two of them, and he
(32:56):
didn't know what to do.
So he came to the Rebbe Marashewife think it was Rebbe Zarefka
and he cried to her and saidwhat should I do?
So she said why don't you come?
During those times Sheba didn'thave a dorm so they didn't ever
to eat.
So every day they had to go eatby Balabatin for different
people homes.
So when it was her turn to cometo their house, his turn.
(33:20):
So he said come when my husbandand the Rebbe is gonna be home
and you'll talk to him.
So he came and he was telling.
So the wife the Rebbe's firsttold him that this boy's will
wanna come back to Sheba.
Forgive them and let me talk tohim.
So Rebbe Marashe said there isSlovotka, there are so many Ari
(33:41):
Sheba's, why you have to go tothe Balabat.
You could go to Ari Sheba's.
We don't want you here.
You made trouble over there.
You won't learn how to learn,go there.
And he cried and he said pleaselet my friend.
Come, let accept my friend.
And the Rebbe Marashe saidbecause you ask for your friend,
(34:02):
you have a sister, I'm going toaccept you too.
He said I want to learn inLubavitch.
I don't want to go to Slovakia,I want to learn in Lubavitch.
And because and my father said,because he insists on learning
in Lubavitch the Ksidoshka madehim alive and that's how my
father and his family and that'sthe way all from, because my
(34:22):
other grandfather's brothers,they didn't go to Lubavitch.
He's Shiva and his kids werenot from.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
So I think, the joy part and the fire part, rather
than just the academics.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, it's not only the muscle Do it, do it, do it,
do it, but enjoy it and love itand feel it, and feel the warm,
kind and the love in it.
And that's what my father saidIf my father wouldn't go to
Lubavitch, I don't know whatwould be of us.
And that's how we all stayed,not just from, but Ksidosh and
Lubavitch, and we want to loveit and we want to give it to our
(35:01):
kids, our grandkids and to ourpeople in the community.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So it's the fire of Yiddishkite, it's the the fire
of Yiddishkite, yeah,personalization and the fact
that it means something to us.
So, parents today, so I think,like today, especially where
we're so focused on academicmarkers, and that you're saying
that that's not necessarilywhat's important.
The necessarily what'simportant is finding the joy in
it and the fire in it and whatit means to you personally.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, the kids should enjoy it and love it, and when
they have a good feeling aboutit they always want to come back
to it.
Even they don't.
Sometimes kids stray away, butif they enjoy it and love it,
they know they have a home, awarm home, to come home to.
They will.
So we teach the kids, but wealso give them the warm feeling
that it's lovable and enjoyable.
(35:48):
So they should want to do itand enjoy doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I think that's very interesting, considering, like
your story where you were saying, yes, you learned a little bit
of Chomish, you learned a littlebit of Ibra, but you didn't
learn a whole lot like bytoday's standards.
But you learned the love ofbeing a Jew, you learned the
love of the pride of it and thewarmth of it and the passion
that you saw your parents, andthat's really what continued
(36:12):
down the path of eventuallylearning more and knowing more,
and I think that's such apowerful lesson.
I want to touch on one othertopic.
Before I was a mother, I heardthese stories and, yeah, I was
inspiring and you know, it'snice to hear she dipped in this
and they kept it from and theyhad a secret Yeshiva.
It's nice, it's inspiring.
But, as a mother, sometimes whenI hear these stories, I look at
(36:34):
them very, very differently.
Like I can't imagine, likemotherhood is hard enough, Like
it's hard.
It's hard to raise yourchildren in a comfortable way
and then to think of the layersof like is my kid going to be
safe going to the neighbor'shouse at night?
Is my kid going to be safe inschool?
Am I going to have the abilityto continue to raise my kids?
(36:54):
You know, to khoopa.
You know it's a scary thoughtprocess and I wonder what you
saw as a child or maybe you'vehad this discussions with your
mother afterwards Like how didyour mother, as the mother of
seven children six children inthe situation, how did she
manage when the world felt veryheavy and the world was smaller
(37:17):
than she didn't, know that therewere people living joyfully and
openly, and how that felt likeit's very isolating.
It was before internet, beforecalls, before, you know, texting
, before social media.
How did she go through that?
How did she go through that andfind her joy?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I think she did know there is a word that has freedom
and people could express.
You describe, because Iremember during war six, day,
war six to seven, my father wasattached to the radio and
listening what's happening inIsrael and and we were and my
parents were writing a letter tothe rabbi and we were in touch
with the rabbi and she knewthere is a better world out
there.
But then I remember when mybrother was only in the she, but
(37:55):
he didn't learn any secularstudies.
My parents didn't let mybrother go to school for obvious
reasons.
So all their friends, even theJewish friends, but younger, you
can't keep him at home.
He's going to be a crazy guy,he's going to be a psycho.
He needs to be with kids, heneeds to play, he needs to have
fun.
Why are you keeping him at homeliving all day?
(38:15):
My mother said, don't worry,he'll be fine.
My mother taught him how toread and read Russian.
I mean the Hebrew you learn inthe sheba with the rabbi.
She taught him math.
So he was not a literate andthe sheba boys were his friends.
There was like 20 boys in thathouse to be socialized with them
.
And and Shabbos, you know, morepeople came to our school, to
our house.
(38:36):
He's a very successful leaderin Toronto and I know Rob is
well.
Nothing from Chicago wasn't outof sheba.
My cousin is with Michelin.
That's in Los Angeles was anout of sheba.
There is fratkin from Israel.
There is other freedmen fromIsrael.
There is a lot of people.
A lot of people were fromUkraine, not their successful
(38:58):
businessman in Williamsburg.
We long pay us.
They were an out of sheba.
Otherwise there would be like aleft to the street.
They were similar with the guy.
So I think my mother was gettingher strength from her mother.
She lived in Moscow and shelived.
She saw her parents live asimilar life.
Also.
I remember every summer wewould go to my grandmother, the
Moscow to be for three months inthe summer with her.
(39:19):
They also live from from a lifeand they had a show in their
house.
So my mother was also brought upin that environment and it was
sometimes it was not easybecause my mother would do not
just our laundry, all thebathroom laundry and cook two
times a day like hot dinners andlunches and it was a lot on her
(39:40):
.
I remember sometimes my motherwas.
It was a hot on her.
She would like.
The other memory was very hotin the summer and my mother was
asked my father, and there wasno single air condition.
Then it was like 40s.
We would sleep outside in thebackyard because it was so hot
in the house and we were notgoing to our friends.
We would go and play duringTravis afternoon, but we were
(40:05):
not going to sleep over.
There was no such thing, but mymother saw her parents were
growing up the same way, theywere raising her the same way,
so it was like second nature.
It was not easy, though, but wewere living with the hope that
we will go to Israel and we willleave this place.
For years and years of replyingto leave, and we got refused.
And one year, when we gotpermission, I remember my
(40:26):
brother.
He was three years old, and hewas running around the house and
saying we got permission, wegot permission.
We didn't know.
We didn't know what he wassaying, but he was copying.
We didn't know what he wassaying, but he was copying what
everybody else was saying.
And I remember we from Russia,we flew to Moscow, and my mother
stayed behind to sell the house, and my father went with us.
From Moscow, we went to Viennaand Vienna.
(40:47):
We stayed 24 hours and we flewto Israel and my father got on
the ground in Kizizov when helanded in Ben-Gurion Lodz,
because it was our dream alwaysto go to Israel and to live in
Israel and this was liketemporarily.
We were living with the hopethat we'll leave sooner rather
than later, and my mother wastrying to get us to school later
.
You have to go to school whenyou're seven, first grade.
(41:09):
She was trying to wait so thereis less kid in school to deal
with the authorities and withthe Shabbas or the Communies.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And you know what were you saying, I think a lot
of people who today are maybesecular Jews or people who don't
understand this and they'recontesting, you know, the land,
talking about Eretz Israel, theland of Israel.
I think that they're contestinglike, well, maybe the
Palestinian lives there, maybethe Jewish people are there, and
(41:37):
I think that this simplesentence that you said, that
your father kissed the ground,is mimicked by so many Jews on
so many generations of so manypeople, no matter what their
theology was, that, no matterwhere you were and no matter
where you were suffering from,and no matter what the trials
and tribulations, you held on tothe fact that we have a place,
(42:00):
we have a land, we come fromsomewhere.
Hashem promised us somethingand the dream is to go back
there, and we say this multipletimes, every single day.
And the fact that your fathercame there, kissed the land and
I know that my grandfather, whocame from Yemen, did the same
thing and he refused to leave,actually, eretz Israel.
Afterwards, he never came tovisit us in the United States
because once he had went toEretz Israel, this was, you know
(42:22):
, holy land, this was our land,and I think that you know.
First, we have to just clarifythis in crystal clear words,
because sometimes the youngpeople who are looking on social
media, the lines can look alittle bit blurry, you know.
But I want to just be very,very, very, very clear that
obviously like this was.
This was what people held on tofor generations that one day we
(42:43):
will come home.
One day we will come home andit's such a gift that your
father was able to do that and,of course, that was his first
reaction.
It's like a known brainer.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, because the longer you suffer in Russia, the
more you wanted to go to Israel, the more you couldn't wait.
And for years they refused usuntil when they got permission
and the minute you applied toleave the takeaway of job, the
takeaway you're you can't work.
That's it.
You considered, like more of amap was like against the
government.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Rufka, what would you tell a young person today who
feels like the world is very,very dark and the world is heavy
and the world is against us andthe world is fighting us?
And almost I think some peoplelike feel that there's nowhere
to go, like where are we going?
They like this is like for onsome sort of level, this is a
fight for our safety and ourwell-being.
(43:35):
And you know, things likeanti-Semitism in New York City
has gone up 400% since October7th 400% and it wasn't low to
begin with.
So you know, look at what'shappening in the Montreal
community.
What would you tell a youngperson today, or even a not so
young person?
What would you tell a Jewstruggling with these feelings
of heaviness?
(43:56):
Aside, for you know, connect toyour joy, which we absolutely
did say, but what would you tellwhat?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
would you do, we do, we, we, we all feel that it's
crazy.
I just heard today thatyesterday at the Big Rally in
Washington there were like 10buses of people from Detroit,
jewish people, who wanted to geton the bus to go to Washington
Rally.
They didn't let them go.
They said the drivers came outof the buses and they're not
driving Jewish people.
So antisemitism is very openand it's in.
(44:25):
If you go on social media yousee it's screaming in your face,
demonstrators everywhere.
It's very scary.
We have to fight back.
It shouldn't have shown nor,nor repeat the second Holocaust,
but we believe Amis Royale High, we will prevail.
We do what our strength wantsus and he will save us.
It is a very scary feeling andI think we have to educate more
(44:46):
people.
Even Jewish people sometimesdon't know, and they, they get
their lines blurred and theyknow what line, what side are
they on.
And we have to discipline, wehave to educate them.
We have to tell them, just tellthem facts, just teach them the
history a little bit that theydon't care about land.
It's not about land.
They just don't want.
They don't want to get rid ofthe Eden, they don't want Jewish
(45:08):
people to live Nothing to dowith the land.
They need a Palestinian state.
They don't need a Palestinianstate.
It was offered to them.
They rejected it several times.
We just continue being strongand educate our young people and
our people should not losetheir faith, lose their
Hashemistest.
We have to continue beingstrong and we will win.
We will prevail as we alwaysbeen.
(45:28):
Hashemists.
Protect us.
Amis Royale High will continuebeing high forever and ever.
I remember when in Russia we hadsome casserole in our house and
my mother made tons of food andeverybody was eating and
dancing, doing the hakafas, andit was running very late, up to
four in the morning, got laterand my mother sent me to go to
(45:49):
sleep because I was eight andnine years old.
But I did.
I couldn't sleep.
I was watching from my bedroomfrom the window into the living
room where everybody was dancingand there was spilling water
like real hakafas and dancing ontop of it and I saw my father
holding the sephatera and allthe people behind him, like the
whole caravan dancing in acircle.
(46:11):
And then I see my fatherholding the taro and he's crying
and the tears like pouring downhis eyes like water from the
sink and he's singing thehakafas' negan very much from
the heart.
My father is a very emotionalperson and I was watching it and
it really hit me in my heart.
(46:33):
Like I saw the messiah's nefesh, I knew he was crying.
He wants to leave Russia and weare in danger.
We're risking our lives withthe messiah's nefesh, and this
gave me all like oil to my heartto go on to burn, to leave more
messiah's nefesh, to do morewhat's right, to stand against
(46:55):
the going and like patience andperseverance, to continue doing
what we're doing.
When I saw my picture of myfather crying not just crying,
but tears are rolling down hischeeks while he's singing the
hakafas' negan from the heart,it really touched me and it gave
me more inspiration and warmthto continue to go on.
(47:18):
And I used some of thisinspiration to give later to my
kids, when I was bringing themup to tell them the stories so
they could do the right choicesbecause there's lots of choices
here in the free land, so theycould do the right things even
though there are lots of choices.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I love that.
I love how you use the trialsthat you had to really channel
into the growth of both yourselfand your children.
I think that that's such anuplifting message to end this
conversation with that, justknowing that not so long ago
this happened to other people inother ways or in similar ways.
(47:55):
And it's happened before andwe've always been okay, we've
always been more than okay,we've always flourished and
we've always continued to growand we've always continued to
build Jewish homes and to haveJewish babies and to establish
Jewish communities and even ifit feels dark and even if it
feels heavy and even if it feelsreally, really difficult that
(48:16):
tomorrow doesn't feel anybrighter, know that tomorrow is
brighter.
We have been here before, wehave come through this and we
know what's coming, and the nextthing that's coming is light
and brightness and 100% mashiahson its way.
There's no other way that itcan be any other way.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
A lot of Eden got very strong.
They got all united and starteddoing mitzvahs more.
A lot of people start puttingon film.
Even the soldiers and ladiesare putting on lighting candles.
You know, people, it says whenyou press, the olive oil comes
out.
So we, the Jewish nation, islike an olive.
The more we got pressed fromthe enemies, we have our oil,
(48:55):
our Jewish Neshoma, our sparklights up and we want to do more
mitzvahs.
Why did people decided not to doput on film, to come to show?
We had an old person come toshow, never came to show, but in
Kiber, all of a sudden he comesto show.
He says what's the occasion?
I want to be in show.
Look what's happening in Israel.
I feel like I want to be inshow.
People start putting onmizuzahs under the oars, the
(49:18):
lighting candles, putting onfilm and buying a letter in the
Torah.
The more you press, the more.
That's what we felt in Russia.
The more we want to be Jews,the more we were pressed.
It doesn't mean we want to bepressed, but the Jewish Neshoma,
the Jewish light, the Jewishoil comes out more and Hashem
will protect us and we willprevail.
(49:39):
As dark as it looks, there islight in the end of the tunnel
and Hashem will walk us throughit to Meshchih, to Khmemiyyus
L'Artseno.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Thank you, Rivka, so much for this beautiful
conversation and discussion andI think it gives us so much
inspiration and so much hope andso much guidance to bring the
joy in our life and to continueto connect to the joy, even in
these moments that do feel darkand do feel heavy.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
So thank you so much for joining us here today.
Sure, it's my pleasure.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil'sNigan provided by Hassan David K
.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
We look forward to your input, feedback and
suggestions.
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info at bodiessouls dot com.
Again info at bodies souls dotcom with two S's, thank you.
Hi and welcome to our podcast, bodies and Souls
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarski.
Today we have a new seriesstarting.
We're going to be discussingJewish people throughout the
ages and actually really not solong ago, because all of the
(00:29):
people that we have lined up arefairly young.
We're going to talk about whatpersecution meant, what
persecution means, what being alight in the midst of darkness
means.
We're going to talk aboutcontinuing to live in the most
elevated way, even when thingsare not as elevated and bright
(00:50):
and shiny as they should be andcould be.
So today we have and I thinkthis is before we actually
introduce our guest today Ithink this is a very timely
discussion because for a longtime we thought that we were
living the dream, we weren'tliving with persecution and we
weren't living with hatred andwe weren't living with trials
(01:11):
and tribulations for sure herein the United States, and we
felt very blessed.
And then October 7th happenedand it brought into light that
the whole dar-v-dur, in everysingle generation I'm Demelaine
O'Hallytze they come and theychallenge us and they seek to
challenge our way of life, and Iwant to talk to several women
(01:32):
who've gone through deeplypersonal journeys and let it
shed light into our everydayexistence today in a
post-October 7th world, and howwe could bring these women and
the lessons that they've learnedinto our day to day now.
So, without further ado, ourguest today is Rivka Sarota.
(01:54):
Rivka actually shared part ofwhat we're going to be
discussing around my Shavastable months ago and as soon as
I heard and my kids all stoppedin their place and listened to
Rivka I said wait, wait, wait.
These are stories that we thinkis like four generations above
us three generations, andRivka's not that much older than
(02:17):
we are.
So I want to talk to Rivkaabout her life journey.
So, rivka, before we start,tell us a little bit about what
you're doing today and then takeus back to where your story
starts.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So today we live in Denver, colorado.
Where are the emissaries of theLubavitcher Rebbe, recent
Lubavitcher Rebbe, and AhmenosNair and Samdas here in 1980 and
we work here with the Russiancommunity?
I came from Russia in 1971 toIsrael and in Russia when we
(02:55):
lived the Jewish life we had aChabadosh in that house but it
was all a secret under the table, so to speak.
We live as from Jews andoutside the people were not
allowed to know that we live aJewish life because it was
against the law, it was acommunism then in the 60s and
(03:18):
you're not allowed to practiceany religion, for sure not
Jewish.
So when I was a child in the60s we had to go to school.
It was illegal to homeschool,like here.
People could homeschool and theRussian authorities would come
to my parents and tell them youhave a child this age and
(03:40):
because they have records it wasborn this year.
And they say, how come, thenI'm in school, then I'm not old
and I'm in school.
So my parents tried to delay usfrom going to school because it
would mean a lot of trouble notgoing on Chabadosh and holidays,
and those years school inRussia was from Monday to
Saturday to Chabadosh, only oneday off or Sunday.
(04:01):
So our parents send us alldifferent schools, all our girls
, our sisters.
We went to morning school, Iwent to morning school, my
sister went to afternoon school,my sister went to evening
school.
They shouldn't see that everysingle Chabadosh, all the girls
from the same family, from theZalsons family, get sick because
(04:21):
we didn't go to school.
Every Chabadosh, every youngkid.
So Chabadosh in our house was aminion like 20, 30 people that
my father and my mother ran andwhen the meeting was over about
1230, we had a knock on ourwindow because the principal
from the school would knock onthe door and on the window and
(04:42):
ask my father where, how come wedidn't go to school?
We would jump right to bedpretending we are sick and my
father would tell them I don'tknow what kind of excuse my
mother had to go to the doctorand get notes that we needed an
extra day off a week and that'swhy we didn't go to school on
(05:04):
Chabadosh, supposedly so theywere also smart.
I said why don't you stay homeon Wednesday?
How come you need to stay onChabadosh?
My mother told him my husbandis home this day, so I want to
spend time with the kids.
So my mother went to thedoctors and took notes that we
need an extra day off for ourrest, for our mental health, and
(05:26):
my mother constantly broughtthem presents, brought them to
keep them quiet, not to maketrouble.
But I remember when I was goinghome one Friday afternoon, when
I was leaving school, theteacher asked me what excuse is
going to bring me that Monday,that tomorrow you're not going
to be in school?
They already knew that we wereorthodox Jews, or they were
(05:47):
suspecting.
And I remember my father tookme to school on the bike every
morning he told me you have tobe an excellent student, you
have to get all the grades Abecause they're going to say,
because you miss one day a week,every single week, that's why
you can be excellent.
So we had to work very hard andwe liked school, we liked
(06:11):
learning, but we didn't like theeducation they gave us.
Every morning in school we hadto sing a song about Lenin.
They made them like into aguest, like an idol that they
had to sing that we wake up inthe morning in his picture
smiles at us like they were allbrainwashing the kids that there
is no God and everybody knowsthe joke.
(06:35):
One time the teacher in Russiawas saying you see the desk?
Yes, there's a desk.
You see the chair.
There is a chair.
You see a student, there is astudent.
You don't see God means thereis no God.
So one Jewish boy stood up andsaid more, can I say something?
And he said, yes, do you seethe teacher?
(06:56):
Yeah, you see her head.
Yeah, do you see her brains?
No, that means she has nobrains.
So a Jewish kid tried to tellthe other kids that if you don't
see something doesn't mean it'snot there.
I remember it just.
Life in Russia was verystressful, I would say, because
(07:17):
besides our home, there was ashow.
My parents also kept a securityshiva.
So we, the girls, went toschool.
My brother Nahiz, I had Shliikhin Toronto, rabbi Yossif
Zaltzman.
I had Shliikh of the Russiancommunity.
He has like 10 rabbis workingfor him.
He never went to school becauseit's harder for a boy.
(07:39):
He was the oldest, he wassupposed to go to school before
us, but it's harder for a boy tosend to school because they can
where are Yarmulke?
They can where it says.
So my parents sent them to adifferent city in Tashkent we
used to live in Summerkhand andsomebody had a shiva there in
somebody's home and he was like10 years old and it was very
hard for him.
(08:00):
He was missing home a lot andafter a while he called my
parents and he said if you don'tbring me home, I'm just gonna
walk, and it's three hoursflight.
My parents brought him home andthey decided they have to open
our own shiva in our home andthat's how our shiva at home was
funded.
My parents found tons of boysfrom Ukraine and Russia, from
(08:23):
the neighborhood and from faraway.
We had like about 20 boys thaton top of our six kids my mother
was raising.
My mother, we became a motherof our 20 teenage boys and they
all live in our house.
We had like one big room thatall the boys stayed there, lived
there and my father got themtutors and it was a shiva in
that house.
(08:43):
So we were like raised in ashiva environment, an oxidation
environment.
My father was for bringing withthem.
So it was very different, likewhen we came home we were open
Jews.
When we came to school we werehidden Jews.
Pesa, chalamoy, we went toschool with matzo sandwiches.
One time in afternoon we usedto go get music lessons.
(09:07):
I learned how to play piano andIsrael learned how to play
accordion.
So one time I didn't lock thedoor and the neighbors the
Russians were always after us,so the gate was not locked to
the front yard and they came inand my sister was home.
She gave a sign to all theshiva boys to hide.
(09:28):
We had like in the big backyardit was like a garage and this is
where the boys were learning.
So they all went to hide.
There was like a big pit forthe potatoes for the winter.
They were all hiding in the pitand she covered it and then he
walked in the room.
So it was like a room, it waslike a big garage, it was like a
big room.
(09:49):
It was like a shiva.
There was chomashim and Sidurimon the table and he asked her
what is this?
And she knew to hold it upsidedown, but then she can't read it
.
But we knew how to read itbecause my mother was teaching
us after school how to readHebrew and understand Hebrew.
And she said oh, it's my oldgrandfather's books, so it's not
(10:11):
your folder, born Jewish.
As long as you don't teach itto your kids, then you're fine.
He looked around, he snuckedaround, then he left and then my
mother never told this story tomy father because he would be
very worried that after us it'slike a lot of stress because if
they find my father, if theycatch him, that he's doing a big
(10:32):
crime, that he's teaching notjust his kids but other people
which he might not be able topractice or teach.
He'll practice and you teach.
So she didn't want to worry him, so she didn't tell him.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What was the big deal ?
Just for clarity, what was thebig deal?
I mean, like communism, okay,it's hard, right, so you weren't
allowed to go to a Jewishschool, you went to a public
school, but what was just?
So we understand the fullpicture of what like.
And this is in the 1960s, it'snot in the 1920s, right?
(11:06):
This is like what was thepicture like for your family?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
like had someone found out about what they were
doing and what were the optionsfor them If they find out my
parents were doing, they wouldsend them to Siberia and it
would be the end of them becauseit's a big crime against the
government.
So it was very big stress formy parents.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What they have done with the kids.
Would they have taken the kidslike sent the kids also to
Siberia, or like sent the kidsto?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
They probably would take the kids to their
ministries and it was very riskyfor my parents.
They felt like their life is onthe line but they kept kind of.
That must have been a selfish.
There is the life every day byteaching us and teaching other
kids and having Minion in thehouse and when they would leave
them at home after the Minionthey will each one will walk
(11:57):
like 20 minutes apart.
They should not see that abunch of Jews living there means
they have an organized religionthere which was not allowed to.
It was like a very scary, riskytime that we lived under.
So my parents felt it more.
We just knew it's not.
This is not right.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
What did you do about kosher food?
Like, obviously you didn't goto the local kosher supermarket.
So what was the there was nokosher supermarket.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So what we did?
There was no kosher Jewishschools.
So my parents, my father, askedmy uncle to come after school.
They were teaching us Hommishand the translation.
My mother taught us to read andwrite in Hebrew and also the
Hebrew language.
We had a Sheik had come to ourhouse once a month and he would,
sheik had like a cow, a lot ofchickens.
(12:45):
And then we were divided by allthe families who kept kosher,
who kept, who were practicing tobe from under the table.
And this story was my mother wasstanding outside by the faucet
and she was cashing, she wasrinsing the meat, she was
cashing the meat and she seesone of the people who came.
(13:06):
It was around four o'clock, soeverybody's standing, shmonesere
, and we had a big sunroom.
It was like open window, it'slike the whole room was from
windows.
So if she walked another 50steps she would see them
standing.
Shmonesere and my mother can'tmake them move.
Because then Shmonesere, sheran with her quick says oh,
(13:27):
wishes dog, you're a wishes dog,quick, go back.
And she locked the door behindher.
One came in.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
While she was in middle of cashing the meat,
someone came into the yard.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, the teacher.
My sister didn't go to schoolthat day so the teacher decided
to pay a visit.
So she was coming into thebackyard, into that house, to
visit my mother and speak goingon, what's going on.
But my mother saw her.
She gonna push her away andlock the door because she wanted
to protect all the peopleinside from her because if she
(14:00):
was telling over the news whatshe saw, my parents' life would
be in danger.
So my mother ran in and shequick changed because she was in
the house coat and took her andtook her far away from the home
like blocks and blocks in thecenter of the city, just to take
it away.
So when the people finisheddowning and each one would take
(14:24):
like an hour or more to leavethe house because they need to
take 20 minutes apart untileverybody leaves, she didn't
want them to see people leavingthe minions.
So she realized the skirt is onthe wrong side of the upside
down.
But she took her far away fromhome just to keep the people in
the downing safe.
(14:44):
One time it's in Joseira, inthat house.
So they were dancing till fouro'clock in the morning.
The next morning they wereasking my mother.
So what was so noisy last night?
People were singing, what wereyou guys doing?
And my mother said oh, myhusband had a birthday and his
friends came over so they werecelebrating.
Like everything had to be.
(15:06):
Very like kosher, you can't sayanything religious to do.
My brother, legally, was noteven in the city, like a game of
different name, because if heplayed in the backyard we called
his name, the neighborsconstantly snooping and
listening and they knew theywould check that he's not
enrolled in a public school.
There was a big crime.
So legally he was in adifferent city going to school
(15:27):
there.
But he was hiding like formonths and months.
He just didn't leave the house.
They shouldn't see him becausethey were like, after checking
it was very risky and very scaryfor us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's a story of religious freedom, like a lack
of religious freedom, but inaddition to the lack of like
religious freedom and the lackof the ability to practice
openly, as you did, and topractice openly as from you,
then there was also an elementof like physical insecurity.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Right, because a lot of times my brother, when we did
go out at night to visit hisfriends, he came home all beaten
with the red face and bloodbecause they were just calling
him rigid, like means dirty Jew,and beat him up just for the
sake of it.
I remember I was walking homeone time, because we walk home
(16:19):
back from school like half anhour.
It was safe to walk home, buton the other side of the street
there was some guy called Zridlike that also means a dirty Jew
.
We were scared.
We walk home fast.
It was also safety, becauseonce they know you're doing some
unilateral, it can hurt yourphysical safety as well, not
(16:40):
just the spiritual.
Be free to practice yourYiddish kite.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Was there indoctrination in the schools,
like anti-Jewish thoughts thatwere the kids were taught
routinely in the public schoolsthat you were going to Like and
did you as a child feel likeunsafe in the playground?
Like I know, today I have afriend who's living in Vienna
and she actually lives in acommunity without a Jewish
school and her kids go to apublic school and just yesterday
(17:08):
she was telling me that hersix-year-old was beaten up for
being Jewish.
So I wonder if, like theparallel of that, like you're a
child, obviously a Jewish child,I think did your friends know
you were Jewish?
Did you have friends in school,like if you were that separate,
like as a child growing up inthat environment?
What was your experience like?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I didn't think I had friends.
Friends, I just went to schoolbecause I had to go to school.
Obviously, I learned somesecular subjects but I didn't
keep them as friends.
They were Russian.
They were not Jewish, they wereMuslim Russian.
They were regular Christians.
They were very pro-Russian Some, I remember the teacher was
asking who are you and who areyou?
(17:49):
And one beautiful girl.
She said I am Uzbek, which is aRussian Muslim.
She said no, you're Christian,you're a Russian, because the
Christian was supposed to be abetter race than the Muslims and
you can't be Muslim.
I was not friends with them.
I knew better than that.
I just did school and went homeand I was friends with my
brothers and sisters, people inthe community that were from in,
(18:12):
our cousins.
They got to get on Chavez.
I remember one time I didn'traise my hand, I spoke out of
line or something like.
Was that asking permission?
She would just like grab me outof my seat and throw me in the
corner in front of the wholeclass.
There was like 40 kids in theclass.
Again, the classroom.
Yeah, they were not making mefeel good.
They were.
(18:33):
We had to wear when you were inthe beginning, when you were
younger you had to wear like astar with a means of your
communists, like with thelantern picture.
When you're older, you have towear like a red tie.
He shows a new pan need ofcommunism and when we came home
(18:55):
my brother would burn it on thefire when we took it off.
So no, I'm not allowed in myhouse burned it up.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Kids, mom, friends.
They wanna feel accepted intheir social situations.
You clearly were the otherperson there.
And then you're coming home andthere's all these other
feelings like what did that dofor you?
I mean, I'm sure you thoughtabout this as an adult raising
your own children and seeing howimportant the social aspect of
this is for a child's psyche InRussia.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
We wouldn't want to do anything, so we were stronger
in being thrown, because that'swhere the going was pushing us
towards.
You know what I mean here.
When my kids were raised, it'smore free and there's a lot of
choices that they could do, butwe brought them up in such a way
that they know the right thingto do.
Even there's a lot of choices,they pick up and the right
(19:47):
choice to do and we pushed thekids to be friends.
Of course it's a very big.
We send them to be nosed and tobe leaders and to do counselors
and everything like that,because that's a big fact in a
kid's psyche.
I don't know.
In Russia I guess we knew thisis wrong.
We knew they're not our friends.
We kind of live a double lifein Russia.
(20:08):
In school we were just peopleand at home we were from it.
You know, like I said, we hadcousins and other from people
that live the same life as us,that we were close but we didn't
see them every day.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
How many other from people lived in Tashkent in
Samarkand?
It was Samarkand right.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, also, there's a family, there are families
lived in the same way.
If they would come to ArmeniaShabas yeah, the kids lived in
the same way.
They also would go to school,but they weren't friends.
There were a lot of familieslike this in Samarkand.
Like 10 or 20 families.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's a lot of families.
10 or 20 is not a lot, that'svery little.
So you feel like you still arenot part of this like large
community.
10 or 20 families are stillrather small.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, because these families we can't tell everybody
that we're from under the tableSome even Jews who couldn't
trust because they're gonna tellon you.
So we only trusted.
We're only very close to thepeople who were from in their
home, who lived the same life asus.
Sometimes I met my father saidhe didn't even tell my
(21:18):
grandfather, his father, aboutthe Isheba because it was so
risky.
You know who's listening.
You know who's talking.
You know there was a very bigsecret.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So your grandfather did not know that there was a
Isheba in your home.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Eventually he found out.
He knew because when they cameto check on us, my father
transferred the Isheba to mygrandfather's house for a few
days.
They came to investigate andwere checking and nobody was
there because we put all theboys in that house.
They had to be transferred atnight and they just stopped.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Okay.
So as a college teacher, I haveto ask what about mikvah?
So mikvah there.
Is it really as dramatic as itsounds?
Like they made a hole in thewater and they went in the ice?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
That's my mother, went in the ice in the winter.
So when they just got married,they got married in Samarkand,
because my father's parents wentthere after they were born in
Harkov.
They went to Samarkand duringthe World War II.
They stayed there.
And when my parents got marriedin Samarkand they went to the
Shembe for two years.
(22:21):
So there was no mikvah.
So my mother said that shewould go to the rivers and it
was very cold in the winter togo in the ocean.
It was like very scared, itcould be animal.
And she told my father I can'tdo it anymore, we have to build
a mikvah.
So my father was fundraisingfor a lot of money and the
building mikvah in Dushanbe andits functions till today and
(22:46):
people that live there go there.
And I heard that.
And then when we moved toSamarkand later, two years after
they moved to Samarkand and thehouse, I remember I envisioned
it.
I could see every room, thebackyard.
It's like engraving my family.
But I remember we wanna go backthere.
Like I don't have good feelingsto Russia, and my kids said I
wanna go live in Russia.
I said absolutely not.
(23:07):
Anyway, we had a gigantic.
My parents built a giganticpole in our backyard.
It was one very deep and onemore shallow for kids and it was
attached, so we knew where wehad to.
In the summer we would makeraces, swimming from one end to
the other end and who would gofirst.
In the every Shabbos morning myfather planted evergreen trees
(23:30):
and every Shabbos morning hesaid we should stay in the house
, not go to the backyard,because before the meeting all
the men would go to the mikvaand every evening, when my
mother would take, ladies wouldcome and she would take him to
the pool.
Mikva, this was our mikva.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
So it was a sculpture mikva disguised as a pool.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Disguised as a pool.
Yeah, it was very big.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
It wasn't just a average pool.
It was built as a mikva, justthe size of a pool.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, they're very big, very big, yeah.
So some people over there weretabling, some people drowned and
were saved.
You know they tabling and theylost control because one part
was very deep and his grandsonwas watching him and he jumped
in and pulled him out.
He was saved, like cousinfamilies.
(24:17):
Yeah, mikva was the pool thatmy parents built.
But after my mother had a lotof years trauma, or before even
the mikva in Dusanbe that shecouldn't, until they were
building it, she couldn't goanymore in their ocean.
So she would go on a train,like for two days, 36 hours, to
(24:38):
a different city, to Moscow.
She would go to the mikva, thenshe would sleep over in the
hotel and take the train to gotwo days back until they had a
real mikva that you could use.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
How many children were in your family?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So we had seven children, six in Russia and one
more were born my youngestbrother.
He's now a peddler in NewJersey.
He's working with my father inSlechis.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
How old were you when you went to Israel?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I was 13 years old.
I remember my bus mate.
So I was in Russia late atnight.
Oh, and cousins, everybody came.
My mother made a lot of foodand everybody was dancing and
celebrating and yeah.
So then I went to Israel.
I did seven, eight grade, middleschool, high school, was left
in Parjabad, two year seminaryand then I went to New York to
the Baal Treve.
(25:25):
But I went to the Reve rightaway.
The first summer when we movedto Israel it was in July and for
Elo in August I already went tothe Reve for Tishra.
So I remember the first time Iwent to Icheh to see the Reve
when I was 13 years old.
I remember sending a linesaying Tilling, like for a
couple hours before we went inand then I went myself.
(25:48):
I remember the Reve made mefeel so good and gave me
breakfast.
You should go on, mikhail, youshould go from strength to
strength in everything.
In Gashmi's and Rukhmi's I feltlike the Reve gave me breakfast
to continue and do.
Then, when I finished school,like almost every year or so, I
went to the Reve for Tishra.
When I finished seminary I wentto the Reve again and then I
(26:11):
asked the Reve if she could goback.
The Reve said I should stay andI was looking for a job to
start teaching because Ifinished my seminary practice,
teaching the seminary,everything, and I got my first
job in Morriston Jersey.
I was teaching in a hater there, preschool, kindergarten, first
grade and for a couple ofmonths.
And then they were coming to mefrom Al-Ataira Every night.
(26:35):
They were calling me that theywant to open a new class in
honor of your Tshva.
The Reve told the Reve they'reopening a new class with Russian
kids from Brighton Beach andthey want me to come and teach
and said I just signed acontract with them.
I'm already all busy.
They call me for two monthsevery night and I was living
with my aunt, my mother's sister, miriam Cogan, and her house
(26:58):
and she said look, you're living, 5.30 in the morning, it's
still dark in the winter.
You're coming 7.30 at night,it's already dark.
You don't have a life.
Why don't you come work here inNew York so you'll be able to
leave eight o'clock, you'll behome at four o'clock, you'll
please to see the sunlight inthe winter.
So after a while I took thatjob and I was teaching in the
(27:20):
whole Russian class on East NewYork.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
They just came out of Russia.
They didn't know any English.
I was teaching them AldulavaYiddish, although they were,
like my own kids, Teaching themin Hebrew, Yiddish, in Russian,
in English all the languages.
That's so cute.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So if we forward to today, today you're, you know,
barchashem a Bobby, a mother,many children.
You're running a verysuccessful, beautiful, wonderful
, you know school of your ownand your own slachos and you
have a nice, comfortable,beautiful, holy life.
Fast forward straight to likethe times that we find ourselves
(27:58):
in now.
Do you see any parallels orlessons that women can learn
today from the experiences thatyou had as a child growing up in
Russia?
Have we become desensitized tothe lessons that Jews have lived
with throughout all the years?
Do we need to?
You know how do we focus?
(28:18):
And really I don't know if youcould say make the most out of
this, because there's nothinggood Like we need Mashiach and
that's really where it's at.
But are there lessons that weshould learn based on your own
personal life experience?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So when I was a child , there were brainwashed with me
about Lenin and before andafter, and he wanted to kill all
the Jews and he didn't let themto be free.
And Lenin is not here today.
Stalin is not here today.
All the evening are hereflourishing, having kids, having
grandkids, having Jewish Mosessending kids to Hebrew schools,
(28:54):
to Jewish schools.
We will be there forever.
We have to know be very strong,keep our midst with us.
And because we were brought upin a Hasidic environment, like
my parents, got it from theirparents because my grandparents
were sluching of the FridikeRevolt, the Sixth Leviature
Revolt, the previous Revolt inRussia, and they got it from
(29:16):
their own parents that we haveto do what our son wants us to
do.
We have to remember we are Edenand we always will win.
We always will prevail.
We have to do the Mitzvahs andthe Hasidic God really keeps us
alive.
With the Mitzvahs there willalways be a sub-Sanlyakov and we
(29:39):
are like a sheep among sevenwolves and Hashem will always
protect us and look what theytry to do with us.
Unfortunately, we are familiarto this history that we're going
through now with the Holocaust,with the pogroms in Russia and
this Yisrael.
It was like a pogrom, the worstpogrom ever been.
Hashem wants us to stay true tothe Mitzvahs and stay strong,
(30:00):
and we will win.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
It was very interesting.
So my great grandfather, wecalled him Papa.
He came from Russia after thepogroms, like in the end of the
1800s, beginning of the 1900s.
His father was a fromyid.
He came with 10 children to theUnited States.
He died shortly afterwards.
The kids were not from nobodyended up from.
(30:24):
So what's very interesting to meis a lot of times when Yis
didn't suffer, either they werereally really strong like your
parents were, or they attemptedto assimilate in the hopes that
then we'll be safe, then we'llbe okay, then nobody will come
and get to us.
Obviously, Papa obviously heldonto his Jewish identity because
(30:44):
almost all of his descendantsnow are fromyidin.
I wonder what it is that inthis particular conflict, almost
across the board, everyone'sactively trying to connect and I
think that this is actuallyreally unique.
You said like there's parallelsto every single generation
where people stood up and triedto destroy us.
(31:05):
But there were certain portionsof the population that continue
to connect to their Yiddishguide and certain portions that
went away.
But I think in this particularconflict, almost across the
board, jews are really trying toconnect to their Judaism in a
very real way and I think thatthat almost makes this unique.
Not everybody can stand.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It's very hard, nisayin, it's very hard
experiment to stand, to be ableto be from when people persecute
you.
So a lot of people during theHolocaust also thought if
they're not from, they don'tkeep the mitzvahs, the Nazis
will leave them alone.
But unfortunately they killedall the Jews, even the warm from
, just because their Jews burnedthem.
That's a very good topic thatyou touched, because I think
(31:47):
it's important to have thewarmth and the excitement of
Hossie the scribe, because mygrandfather, my father's father,
nisayin the Romzalsman, when hewas a child, his mother sent
him to a sheba when he was 10years old and this was the Rebbe
Marashe Sheba and he had 11kids at home and he was missing
(32:14):
his family tremendously.
He was a little kid, 10 yearsold boy, he's like a baby and he
missed his parents and missedhis siblings and he couldn't
learn.
He was acting out and havingfun.
One day he brought a goat toSheba and nobody found it and he
found vodka.
He gave it vodka and the goatwas going wild and all the
(32:35):
students were having a ball.
And when the Sheba Rebbe cameto ask what's going on here,
they all said it's a bramble.
It's a little bramble that hedid that.
So he said you did such thing,I'm gonna expel you from Sheba.
And they wanted to stride himout and he didn't know what to
do when it was him and anotherfriend, so two of them, and he
(32:56):
didn't know what to do.
So he came to the Rebbe Marashewife think it was Rebbe Zarefka
and he cried to her and saidwhat should I do?
So she said why don't you come?
During those times Sheba didn'thave a dorm so they didn't ever
to eat.
So every day they had to go eatby Balabatin for different
people homes.
So when it was her turn to cometo their house, his turn.
(33:20):
So he said come when my husbandand the Rebbe is gonna be home
and you'll talk to him.
So he came and he was telling.
So the wife the Rebbe's firsttold him that this boy's will
wanna come back to Sheba.
Forgive them and let me talk tohim.
So Rebbe Marashe said there isSlovotka, there are so many Ari
(33:41):
Sheba's, why you have to go tothe Balabat.
You could go to Ari Sheba's.
We don't want you here.
You made trouble over there.
You won't learn how to learn,go there.
And he cried and he said pleaselet my friend.
Come, let accept my friend.
And the Rebbe Marashe saidbecause you ask for your friend,
(34:02):
you have a sister, I'm going toaccept you too.
He said I want to learn inLubavitch.
I don't want to go to Slovakia,I want to learn in Lubavitch.
And because and my father said,because he insists on learning
in Lubavitch the Ksidoshka madehim alive and that's how my
father and his family and that'sthe way all from, because my
(34:22):
other grandfather's brothers,they didn't go to Lubavitch.
He's Shiva and his kids werenot from.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
So I think, the joy part and the fire part, rather
than just the academics.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, it's not only the muscle Do it, do it, do it,
do it, but enjoy it and love itand feel it, and feel the warm,
kind and the love in it.
And that's what my father saidIf my father wouldn't go to
Lubavitch, I don't know whatwould be of us.
And that's how we all stayed,not just from, but Ksidosh and
Lubavitch, and we want to loveit and we want to give it to our
(35:01):
kids, our grandkids and to ourpeople in the community.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So it's the fire of Yiddishkite, it's the the fire
of Yiddishkite, yeah,personalization and the fact
that it means something to us.
So, parents today, so I think,like today, especially where
we're so focused on academicmarkers, and that you're saying
that that's not necessarilywhat's important.
The necessarily what'simportant is finding the joy in
it and the fire in it and whatit means to you personally.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, the kids should enjoy it and love it, and when
they have a good feeling aboutit they always want to come back
to it.
Even they don't.
Sometimes kids stray away, butif they enjoy it and love it,
they know they have a home, awarm home, to come home to.
They will.
So we teach the kids, but wealso give them the warm feeling
that it's lovable and enjoyable.
(35:48):
So they should want to do itand enjoy doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I think that's very interesting, considering, like
your story where you were saying, yes, you learned a little bit
of Chomish, you learned a littlebit of Ibra, but you didn't
learn a whole lot like bytoday's standards.
But you learned the love ofbeing a Jew, you learned the
love of the pride of it and thewarmth of it and the passion
that you saw your parents, andthat's really what continued
(36:12):
down the path of eventuallylearning more and knowing more,
and I think that's such apowerful lesson.
I want to touch on one othertopic.
Before I was a mother, I heardthese stories and, yeah, I was
inspiring and you know, it'snice to hear she dipped in this
and they kept it from and theyhad a secret Yeshiva.
It's nice, it's inspiring.
But, as a mother, sometimes whenI hear these stories, I look at
(36:34):
them very, very differently.
Like I can't imagine, likemotherhood is hard enough, Like
it's hard.
It's hard to raise yourchildren in a comfortable way
and then to think of the layersof like is my kid going to be
safe going to the neighbor'shouse at night?
Is my kid going to be safe inschool?
Am I going to have the abilityto continue to raise my kids?
(36:54):
You know, to khoopa.
You know it's a scary thoughtprocess and I wonder what you
saw as a child or maybe you'vehad this discussions with your
mother afterwards Like how didyour mother, as the mother of
seven children six children inthe situation, how did she
manage when the world felt veryheavy and the world was smaller
(37:17):
than she didn't, know that therewere people living joyfully and
openly, and how that felt likeit's very isolating.
It was before internet, beforecalls, before, you know, texting
, before social media.
How did she go through that?
How did she go through that andfind her joy?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I think she did know there is a word that has freedom
and people could express.
You describe, because Iremember during war six, day,
war six to seven, my father wasattached to the radio and
listening what's happening inIsrael and and we were and my
parents were writing a letter tothe rabbi and we were in touch
with the rabbi and she knewthere is a better world out
there.
But then I remember when mybrother was only in the she, but
(37:55):
he didn't learn any secularstudies.
My parents didn't let mybrother go to school for obvious
reasons.
So all their friends, even theJewish friends, but younger, you
can't keep him at home.
He's going to be a crazy guy,he's going to be a psycho.
He needs to be with kids, heneeds to play, he needs to have
fun.
Why are you keeping him at homeliving all day?
(38:15):
My mother said, don't worry,he'll be fine.
My mother taught him how toread and read Russian.
I mean the Hebrew you learn inthe sheba with the rabbi.
She taught him math.
So he was not a literate andthe sheba boys were his friends.
There was like 20 boys in thathouse to be socialized with them
.
And and Shabbos, you know, morepeople came to our school, to
our house.
(38:36):
He's a very successful leaderin Toronto and I know Rob is
well.
Nothing from Chicago wasn't outof sheba.
My cousin is with Michelin.
That's in Los Angeles was anout of sheba.
There is fratkin from Israel.
There is other freedmen fromIsrael.
There is a lot of people.
A lot of people were fromUkraine, not their successful
(38:58):
businessman in Williamsburg.
We long pay us.
They were an out of sheba.
Otherwise there would be like aleft to the street.
They were similar with the guy.
So I think my mother was gettingher strength from her mother.
She lived in Moscow and shelived.
She saw her parents live asimilar life.
Also.
I remember every summer wewould go to my grandmother, the
Moscow to be for three months inthe summer with her.
(39:19):
They also live from from a lifeand they had a show in their
house.
So my mother was also brought upin that environment and it was
sometimes it was not easybecause my mother would do not
just our laundry, all thebathroom laundry and cook two
times a day like hot dinners andlunches and it was a lot on her
(39:40):
.
I remember sometimes my motherwas.
It was a hot on her.
She would like.
The other memory was very hotin the summer and my mother was
asked my father, and there wasno single air condition.
Then it was like 40s.
We would sleep outside in thebackyard because it was so hot
in the house and we were notgoing to our friends.
We would go and play duringTravis afternoon, but we were
(40:05):
not going to sleep over.
There was no such thing, but mymother saw her parents were
growing up the same way, theywere raising her the same way,
so it was like second nature.
It was not easy, though, but wewere living with the hope that
we will go to Israel and we willleave this place.
For years and years of replyingto leave, and we got refused.
And one year, when we gotpermission, I remember my
(40:26):
brother.
He was three years old, and hewas running around the house and
saying we got permission, wegot permission.
We didn't know.
We didn't know what he wassaying, but he was copying.
We didn't know what he wassaying, but he was copying what
everybody else was saying.
And I remember we from Russia,we flew to Moscow, and my mother
stayed behind to sell the house, and my father went with us.
From Moscow, we went to Viennaand Vienna.
(40:47):
We stayed 24 hours and we flewto Israel and my father got on
the ground in Kizizov when helanded in Ben-Gurion Lodz,
because it was our dream alwaysto go to Israel and to live in
Israel and this was liketemporarily.
We were living with the hopethat we'll leave sooner rather
than later, and my mother wastrying to get us to school later
.
You have to go to school whenyou're seven, first grade.
(41:09):
She was trying to wait so thereis less kid in school to deal
with the authorities and withthe Shabbas or the Communies.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And you know what were you saying, I think a lot
of people who today are maybesecular Jews or people who don't
understand this and they'recontesting, you know, the land,
talking about Eretz Israel, theland of Israel.
I think that they're contestinglike, well, maybe the
Palestinian lives there, maybethe Jewish people are there, and
(41:37):
I think that this simplesentence that you said, that
your father kissed the ground,is mimicked by so many Jews on
so many generations of so manypeople, no matter what their
theology was, that, no matterwhere you were and no matter
where you were suffering from,and no matter what the trials
and tribulations, you held on tothe fact that we have a place,
(42:00):
we have a land, we come fromsomewhere.
Hashem promised us somethingand the dream is to go back
there, and we say this multipletimes, every single day.
And the fact that your fathercame there, kissed the land and
I know that my grandfather, whocame from Yemen, did the same
thing and he refused to leave,actually, eretz Israel.
Afterwards, he never came tovisit us in the United States
because once he had went toEretz Israel, this was, you know
(42:22):
, holy land, this was our land,and I think that you know.
First, we have to just clarifythis in crystal clear words,
because sometimes the youngpeople who are looking on social
media, the lines can look alittle bit blurry, you know.
But I want to just be very,very, very, very clear that
obviously like this was.
This was what people held on tofor generations that one day we
(42:43):
will come home.
One day we will come home andit's such a gift that your
father was able to do that and,of course, that was his first
reaction.
It's like a known brainer.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, because the longer you suffer in Russia, the
more you wanted to go to Israel, the more you couldn't wait.
And for years they refused usuntil when they got permission
and the minute you applied toleave the takeaway of job, the
takeaway you're you can't work.
That's it.
You considered, like more of amap was like against the
government.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Rufka, what would you tell a young person today who
feels like the world is very,very dark and the world is heavy
and the world is against us andthe world is fighting us?
And almost I think some peoplelike feel that there's nowhere
to go, like where are we going?
They like this is like for onsome sort of level, this is a
fight for our safety and ourwell-being.
(43:35):
And you know, things likeanti-Semitism in New York City
has gone up 400% since October7th 400% and it wasn't low to
begin with.
So you know, look at what'shappening in the Montreal
community.
What would you tell a youngperson today, or even a not so
young person?
What would you tell a Jewstruggling with these feelings
of heaviness?
(43:56):
Aside, for you know, connect toyour joy, which we absolutely
did say, but what would you tellwhat?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
would you do, we do, we, we, we all feel that it's
crazy.
I just heard today thatyesterday at the Big Rally in
Washington there were like 10buses of people from Detroit,
jewish people, who wanted to geton the bus to go to Washington
Rally.
They didn't let them go.
They said the drivers came outof the buses and they're not
driving Jewish people.
So antisemitism is very openand it's in.
(44:25):
If you go on social media yousee it's screaming in your face,
demonstrators everywhere.
It's very scary.
We have to fight back.
It shouldn't have shown nor,nor repeat the second Holocaust,
but we believe Amis Royale High, we will prevail.
We do what our strength wantsus and he will save us.
It is a very scary feeling andI think we have to educate more
(44:46):
people.
Even Jewish people sometimesdon't know, and they, they get
their lines blurred and theyknow what line, what side are
they on.
And we have to discipline, wehave to educate them.
We have to tell them, just tellthem facts, just teach them the
history a little bit that theydon't care about land.
It's not about land.
They just don't want.
They don't want to get rid ofthe Eden, they don't want Jewish
(45:08):
people to live Nothing to dowith the land.
They need a Palestinian state.
They don't need a Palestinianstate.
It was offered to them.
They rejected it several times.
We just continue being strongand educate our young people and
our people should not losetheir faith, lose their
Hashemistest.
We have to continue beingstrong and we will win.
We will prevail as we alwaysbeen.
(45:28):
Hashemists.
Protect us.
Amis Royale High will continuebeing high forever and ever.
I remember when in Russia we hadsome casserole in our house and
my mother made tons of food andeverybody was eating and
dancing, doing the hakafas, andit was running very late, up to
four in the morning, got laterand my mother sent me to go to
(45:49):
sleep because I was eight andnine years old.
But I did.
I couldn't sleep.
I was watching from my bedroomfrom the window into the living
room where everybody was dancingand there was spilling water
like real hakafas and dancing ontop of it and I saw my father
holding the sephatera and allthe people behind him, like the
whole caravan dancing in acircle.
(46:11):
And then I see my fatherholding the taro and he's crying
and the tears like pouring downhis eyes like water from the
sink and he's singing thehakafas' negan very much from
the heart.
My father is a very emotionalperson and I was watching it and
it really hit me in my heart.
(46:33):
Like I saw the messiah's nefesh, I knew he was crying.
He wants to leave Russia and weare in danger.
We're risking our lives withthe messiah's nefesh, and this
gave me all like oil to my heartto go on to burn, to leave more
messiah's nefesh, to do morewhat's right, to stand against
(46:55):
the going and like patience andperseverance, to continue doing
what we're doing.
When I saw my picture of myfather crying not just crying,
but tears are rolling down hischeeks while he's singing the
hakafas' negan from the heart,it really touched me and it gave
me more inspiration and warmthto continue to go on.
(47:18):
And I used some of thisinspiration to give later to my
kids, when I was bringing themup to tell them the stories so
they could do the right choicesbecause there's lots of choices
here in the free land, so theycould do the right things even
though there are lots of choices.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I love that.
I love how you use the trialsthat you had to really channel
into the growth of both yourselfand your children.
I think that that's such anuplifting message to end this
conversation with that, justknowing that not so long ago
this happened to other people inother ways or in similar ways.
(47:55):
And it's happened before andwe've always been okay, we've
always been more than okay,we've always flourished and
we've always continued to growand we've always continued to
build Jewish homes and to haveJewish babies and to establish
Jewish communities and even ifit feels dark and even if it
feels heavy and even if it feelsreally, really difficult that
(48:16):
tomorrow doesn't feel anybrighter, know that tomorrow is
brighter.
We have been here before, wehave come through this and we
know what's coming, and the nextthing that's coming is light
and brightness and 100% mashiahson its way.
There's no other way that itcan be any other way.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
A lot of Eden got very strong.
They got all united and starteddoing mitzvahs more.
A lot of people start puttingon film.
Even the soldiers and ladiesare putting on lighting candles.
You know, people, it says whenyou press, the olive oil comes
out.
So we, the Jewish nation, islike an olive.
The more we got pressed fromthe enemies, we have our oil,
(48:55):
our Jewish Neshoma, our sparklights up and we want to do more
mitzvahs.
Why did people decided not to doput on film, to come to show?
We had an old person come toshow, never came to show, but in
Kiber, all of a sudden he comesto show.
He says what's the occasion?
I want to be in show.
Look what's happening in Israel.
I feel like I want to be inshow.
People start putting onmizuzahs under the oars, the
(49:18):
lighting candles, putting onfilm and buying a letter in the
Torah.
The more you press, the more.
That's what we felt in Russia.
The more we want to be Jews,the more we were pressed.
It doesn't mean we want to bepressed, but the Jewish Neshoma,
the Jewish light, the Jewishoil comes out more and Hashem
will protect us and we willprevail.
(49:39):
As dark as it looks, there islight in the end of the tunnel
and Hashem will walk us throughit to Meshchih, to Khmemiyyus
L'Artseno.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Thank you, Rivka, so much for this beautiful
conversation and discussion andI think it gives us so much
inspiration and so much hope andso much guidance to bring the
joy in our life and to continueto connect to the joy, even in
these moments that do feel darkand do feel heavy.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
So thank you so much for joining us here today.
Sure, it's my pleasure.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil'sNigan provided by Hassan David K
.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
We look forward to your input, feedback and
suggestions.
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info at bodiessouls dot com.
Again info at bodies souls dotcom with two S's, thank you.
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