January 22, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode, Rivky Boyarsky's mother, Etti Hahn, a Yemenite Jew, speaks to us about her childhood and the Yemenite community. We discover how an ancient community clung to their identity, and how each household kept their simple Emunah at the forefront of their existance.
The winds of change occurred with Operation Magic Carpet, a mission of both deliverance and upheaval. The journey of nearly 50,000 Yemenite Jews to their new home in Israel, is both a bitter sting of cultural shock and severed family bonds. It's a portrait of resilience too, of women who, though unable to read, were walking repositories of Minhagim and Torah.
While we grapple with the complexities of Operation Magic Carpet, including the pain of searching for lost relatives, and the challenge of nurturing Torah values in an ever-changing landscape, we also speak about the anticipation for a future era of peace,of the faith we have in the coming of Moshiach.
To sponsor an episode of Bodies & Souls, email us at
info@bodiessouls.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi and welcome to our podcast, Bodies and Souls
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Good morning and welcome tothis episode of Bodies and Souls
.
Your host for today are RivkiBoyarski and Sarah Lohenthal.
Today we have the honor andprivilege of having my mother
with us.
My mother is actually hererepresenting the last part of
(00:29):
our series where we'reinterviewing different women who
are representative of differentstruggles in different
communities around the diaspora,and today we are interviewing
my mother as a representative ofYemenite Jewry.
So, Ima, can you start us offand just tell us a little bit
about how Jews got to Yemen andwhat their place was in Yemenite
(00:54):
society?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It's known in my family that my family was there
since Baitrishon, the Aleviimfrom generation, all of them
from both sides, the marriedonly Levy coin, levy-levy to
keep it as inside Shabbat-Levy,and this was kept until the camp
(01:18):
of the Israeli.
I was the last in Yemen.
What I had for my family thatthey were segregated from the
Arabs, but they had a simple.
They had their own life.
They did not live amongst theArabs.
Most Arabs did respect them.
They lived by their own andthey would go to work when they
(01:41):
got to the Shukr there and mostof the Jews were really, they
were not female.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay, so tell us about the Jews in Yemen and how
they got to Yemen.
Okay fine.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
After Choban Baitrishon, the Jews mostly from
Shabbat-Yehuda or fromShabbat-Levy.
They left Israel and went toYemen.
They had the Nebuah fromYermiau and they followed his
Nebuah and they went there andstayed there until 1948.
(02:13):
They lived mostly in littlevillages.
They were not really livingamongst the Goyi and my father I
can tell you about my parents.
They were all Levine and theytried to stay amongst
Shabbat-Levy.
My mother father was a Jewlerand he also was a sheikh and he
(02:35):
also was kind of Rosh Kehilawhen the Jews did not, when Ezra
and Haemiah I'm going to toucha little bit with history when
Ezra and Haemiah invited me tocall the Jews to come back, the
Jews of Yemen did not want tocome back and as a result he did
cast them that they're going tobe poor.
(02:55):
Nobody will see the Gdula untilthe Atamashiach.
They're going to have a lot.
There will be a lot of peopleand really you see this, in
Yemenite almost every family hastheir own shul and they really
very, very, very.
Madly there were no luxuriesfor the Jews in Europe, but they
(03:19):
were very.
They kept their Torah and kepttheir Eben and Hagem very
strictly.
When I read the book of EbenSapir I learned a lot.
My parents came from the cityand they had a different way of
diving and they followed the RamBam.
They dove in according to theirBaladi which is a little bit
(03:43):
different.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I just want to backtrack.
You mentioned that every familyhad its own shul.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Every family.
You have to understand.
They lived like Hamula a familythe parents, the children, the
aunt, the grandmother.
So it was very family oriented.
They did not like the way todaywe don't, we're not really
familiar with it.
Everybody lived far away, buthere the mother will help with
(04:11):
the kids, the grandmother willhelp with the kids.
So they had a shul, many ofmany.
Shul doesn't mean every family,but definitely it would be a
few families.
That depend on where they liveand they lived really in a small
village.
Villages because Yemen is very,very mountainy.
(04:32):
So in order to avoidassimilating with the going and
also the going did not want themto be amongst them.
So they live in small mountains, they sleep in little, small
villages.
My parents, my mother, come fromSanaa.
My father was a city next toSanaa and remember we're not
(04:55):
talking about the same ghetto astoday.
That we know.
You know what I mean A city.
There was not a big city.
Sanaa was a big city.
If you look at, if you look tosee how Sanaa is built, so you
see they had buildings like freefloor, story home.
(05:17):
They were kind of Africancities.
They will advance the way theybuilt the houses and they were
allowed Jews who lived furtheraway by the closer to the border
.
So they were different Ema.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
what about the quality of life?
Did Jews have a good life inYemen?
Were there periods of betterlife or struggles?
What was the quality of lifefor Jews living?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
in.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yemen.
Did they have equal rights?
Did they have opportunities togrow?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
No, the Jews in Yemen were expected, but they did not
have equal rights.
For example, they could nothave horses it's only for the
Arab.
They were allowed to havedonkey.
They were not allowed to havetoo high birthing they were very
sure could not be too highbecause the mask has to be there
(06:15):
.
The kind of kept the Jews in alow profile, but they did expect
them.
They left very modest.
There were times the king wasgood, he would let them fill it
more easy, and sometimes theyhad to pay a lot of tax.
And not only that, they hadpolicemen who go for the city
any places.
(06:36):
If there is somebody who diedand they are often, very often
they will take the orphan kidsand attack them to be a Muslim.
But by the system amongst thoseJews they will marry them
quickly, before Even there willbe ten years.
My uncle, for example, marriedmany, many women but it was
(06:59):
factivity, it was not real inorder to save those girls from
going to be taken to the Muslim,to the Arab.
My mother, her father, passedaway, so she and her and her
sibling were not at home at thetime.
And where my father walked hetold him my father wanted my
(07:22):
mother already.
So he told him if you want thiswoman, go quickly, because
there are policemen going andnobody's there in house and she
left the city in order toprevent of getting married.
And then she, sometime, evenYemenite, will get married to
three women and really live withone woman, but they will give a
(07:48):
get in order to one.
Be a problem with a gunna, aproblem with marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Can you just go back to what you said about your
uncle?
Your uncle married multiplewomen in order to save them from
the Yemenite policemen smashingthem and making them Tell me
about this.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Okay, okay, my uncle was a very handsome man so he
was very fearless.
You have to understand, justsee my uncle to understand.
So he knew where they will hidethose girls and he dug under
(08:28):
under the house where they keptthem and he took them out of
there, married them on a spotand when he came back they
caught him.
They heard that he's doing thatand he also used to kidnap them
and take them out of thoseplaces.
And then he had to run awaybecause they were after him and
(08:50):
he ran away with the boat.
He ran to Adam and he came muchmore later, after my parents,
because he could not go back toYemen and he could not go back
to Israel at the time.
And he did come and then I wastold he had to go find all those
young girls and give them a get.
(09:10):
And one of them he did not wantto give a get, but she was very
young, she was before him fortwo years and they already told
her you're young, what do youget married Because they want to
assimilate them.
And he gave her a get becauseshe she said, I'm too young, she
was 14, 15, coming to Israel.
(09:33):
They already told them, theyalready tried to brainwash them.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's very interesting I see like echoes of this
mentality in even in the storyof the stories of like, how
Arabs reacted to the young girls, even in October 7th, that you
know the ownership of these likegirls who were unattached, that
they just took them.
It's the same type of mentalitythat we're listening to you
(09:59):
speak about of the Arabs takingownership of young girls and
just taking them for themselves,which is an insane thing from
our perspective of where we'restanding.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
But in Yemen they knew because the kids, the
family were religious, they knewthey are good value.
They did value them very much.
It was, it was a very high totake a Jewish girl, a woman, a
girl and make an Arab.
It was a good quality ofconverting.
But right.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
that doesn't make it any better, that makes sense, of
course.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Now I know that you'll see his father.
Okay, there was somebodyrelative who got orphaned and
his father was young and theyknew that if she's not going to
get married the next two daysshe's going to be taken away.
Yossi told us his father nothis father, he's the grandfather
(10:56):
took his father and told himyou have to marry her.
He said I don't want to marryher, I don't like her.
It's the showing, the girl.
And it got to the point that ifshe's not going to get married
she's going to be taken the nextday.
Even holding by his head, byhis leg.
If you're not going to getmarried to her now, we're going
(11:21):
to be the beating, the rabbitsalone and the Torah.
Now we're going to kick you outand you have to get married to
her.
And you was not very happy.
But he got married.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It was a way of them saving these girls, from falling
in a very, very bad situation asituation that nobody wants to
be in very, very similar to whathostages are, not to compare.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's a horrible situation, Okay so my parents
said life was okay.
They did not ask for life.
They believed time to come toIsrael did not come.
Yet they did not want to goback.
They kept them hugging the wayit used to be long ago and they
did not even want to get married.
(12:08):
If a rough come from Egypt as aShliah want to marry, for
example, his daughter to one ofYemenite boys, yemenite did not
want to get married even toanother Jew out of the Yemen
because they wanted to keep themin hugging and everything.
I'm not saying in Maliuta orthe Gariuta, I'm just saying a
(12:29):
little bit of their mentalityand culture.
When my parents came to Israeland if we saw a Jewish guy, even
from Yashiba, without a beard,they did not trust him because
they never saw a beard, withouta beard and they would not even
take the help, even when theywanted to help them.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I want to just talk about one more thing.
If I remember correctly correctme if I'm wrong it was possible
for people to achieve some formof wealth in Yemen, Right?
Yes, so Safdarina, she camefrom a wealthier family.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
There was some sort of feeling of normalcy, that
feeling of success, feeling ofsecurity, feeling of even with
these stories that you're sayingabout orphans that are being
taken away for the Africanperson, there was still a sense
of we could succeed.
This can be our home, Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
In Yemen, the Arab did not even do any jewelry.
Only the Jews were theprofessional in this field, so
they were very, very valuable.
My father, like I, told youchildren there is a story about
the wealth.
That's the way they got a lotof money.
There was a story about thewealth that was at the
(13:49):
grandfather's home and untiltoday it's called Periyahish,
and people came to buy water andbecame Periyahish and they had
a big home.
My mother did also, because thefather was a jeweler and he was
a rosh, and every Thursday theywill shecht our kifsa and my
(14:11):
mother happened to be the onewho will put them in a little
bag and give it to the poorpeople.
This is the story.
I heard not only from my mother,from people who know my family
after my mother passed away, andthey said that that's what they
always called them, the goodpeople, because every Thursday
(14:32):
they will be distributed to thepoor people in the community.
Yes, my mother said they hadlike three floors.
One floor was the kifsa forPesach and the grandparents live
in one floor.
They live in one floor and theyhave our kitchen, which was
special for Pesach.
(14:52):
I don't think everybody wore,but there definitely was time
that the jews felt verycomfortable according to the
standard of Yemen.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm assuming that in the smaller little mountainous
villages that you described,that it was more poverty than in
the city.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, yes it was more poverty.
You're right.
Yeah, yes, they all they.
The Yemenites are divided, likein the city, a little bit of
Virgil, and there was a verydifferent exit, different custom
, different food.
But yes, more to the city,there were more Wealthier,
(15:31):
Wealthier.
I don't want to go intoeducation or anything like this
because what I gather, almostall, all all the young boys were
taught from when they werethree years old.
They already went to Torah.
So so they.
By the time I asked one kid,are you ready for your bombings?
(15:52):
I have to be a Yemenite kidtoday.
That is father.
He's so crazy to keep them inhugging.
So I said to him are you readyfor your bombings?
So what do you mean?
I'm going to the Torah for thefour.
I am, and I read all the timeevery year.
I know all the people, by theway for everyone who's listening
.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm just going to clarify in case you didn't hear
this.
The Yemenite people, they oncethe kids master reading the
Torah.
They can call them up evenbefore Burmitsvah.
So my mother asked the Yemenitekid are you ready for your
Burmitsvah?
And he said what are youtalking about?
I'm going to the Torah, sinceI'm four.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I saw my father teaching my brother every
Shabbat and at the end of theday I read the Torah every
Shabbat, even to me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Right.
So the boys got a very, verythorough education which had a
lot of hallmarks, but the girlswere actually.
I know that my Safda Safdarinawas illiterate, but like my
mother will tell you, girls knewso much, even though they
couldn't read and write.
So I have my grandfather'ssister, doda Sara.
(17:00):
She was a tiny little lady Ican't even.
I can't even come back to theroom.
She was blind at the end of herlife.
But she was so small she wouldbe sitting in the window sill
with her blanket and we wouldalmost not notice her, but her
mouth was moving the whole time.
She knew that, to heal him fromstart to finish, by heart, she
sat in the window sill, blind inher own world, saying to him
(17:22):
again and again and again.
So the girls may have beenilliterate, but they knew a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The woman was allowed to sit and listen when the men
learned Torah.
So my mother was listening.
Half of the time there was aTalmud I think most men, because
they learned all the time theyknew and she was allowed to
listen.
She even corrected Dodiosi onceand he said to Doda how do you
know?
And she said I just said to myfather.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So there were a lot of Torah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Even she didn't know Torah, which bothered me, but
yes, she knew a lot, she did.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
So fascinating.
I love all the details thatyou're giving over.
I would love to hear moredetails, but at this point I
think I want to hear about thevery famous operation with a
called Magic Carpet, when allthe Jews from Yemen in 1948 came
to Israel and I was Googling,it looks like there's around
(18:23):
50,000 Jews that lived in Yemen.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And there's like one Jew.
So all 50,000 of them werebrought to Israel.
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Okay, what really was special about this operation is
the way the Shluchim came totell the Jews in Yemen that they
are, there is a plan going towait for them to come to Israel
and it's time to come.
So they all kind, took it veryserious and they just got
(18:53):
together.
Nobody was expecting them tocome in short time, so they all
kept on different, like in fewweeks.
But it was disaster by the timethey got because nobody
explained to come so much.
My father he told me that hehad two store, one store doing a
(19:14):
blanket and pillows and theother store had he was doing a
shoe, shoes.
So what he did, he said theywere not allowed.
They talked to each other inshoe.
So everybody said what are theygoing to leave Yemen?
So the kind was kind oforganized operation.
So he put his needle.
(19:37):
He said you're not allowed toleave Yemen without permission
and without passing on yourprofessional.
So in order to go around that,he just left the store open,
left the middle in a blanket,left everything open and it took
, like he took, I think, threedonkey.
(20:00):
He hired one for the twograndmother.
He made like a basket in eachside and each after side on one
side and the other one.
The other donkey was from mymother and two sister and the
other one was my father and thefood.
They did not go into our city,they went around so nobody would
(20:23):
see them.
But the new adventure they tookfood with them and they walked
aloud.
If you see a picture of myfather, my parents, getting to
Aden, you think they arehardcore survivors.
He said they walked for weeksin a desert and a heat.
They could not even go intoArab town.
(20:43):
They stayed outside.
And then, where a lot of themcame, to Aden nobody expects so
many Jews to come and there wasno place.
There was only one doctor ortwo doctors and two nurses, one
tent, they said a lot of peopledied because there was no food.
(21:03):
It was horrible.
So by the time they went to theplan, a lot, of a lot.
I know my mother, see, mymother lost two boys, but before
they left, yeah, but beforethey left, yeah, two boys, yeah,
she did, and two boys she leftand they were happy to believe.
But when they did not expectIssa to be the way it was, they
(21:27):
were not expecting to see notreligious people, and they were
sure.
And the other time I heard it.
They told me they wanted to goback because they saw what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So they were sure that Operation Magic carpet was
actually Mashiach.
They were sure that they weregoing to be and this was going
to be Al-Khanfin-Isha'aron.
They were going straight toMashiach.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yes, and the sad things was, and my father said,
they took all the jewelry fromthem before the border plan.
They took all the books, sifreiTorah, with an excuse it's too
heavy for the plan, you'll getit later.
In Israel Never happened.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
They lied.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
They took it but them seeing the plane that looks
really like a bird, they reallybelieve that really Mashiach is
coming.
How old were you?
I did not born yet.
Only my sister, my two sister,one sister, marka, and other
(22:38):
sister was taken away.
So she was my sister was seven.
My other sister, ora, was five.
I thought they only took awaythe infant they took also an
infant, but she was five yearsold or four years old.
Yes, they took her, my sister.
She was there for a few months.
(22:59):
She went to to, to nursery, toa gun, and my sister was picking
up every day and when she cameto pick up, wonder, they said
they went for a trip and theywould be back the next day.
They never came back and thebaby.
They just told my mother putyour finger here because she did
(23:19):
not sign.
And she did with a finger andshe didn't know that she's
signing to give the baby away.
They took advantage of thehonesty and the timid mood and
the honesty.
And then I'm not knowing what'sflying in Israel.
And that's what happened and Isaid tragedy which I do not like
(23:44):
to talk.
My parents did not want to talkKetrogalam, israel, but now
it's all known.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So I want to, I want to get to that to the point that
Sabah Menachem and Safdarinawere people of great faith, deep
faith.
They had tremendous Amunah,probably the most Amunah of
everyone I know.
And, just from perspective, Iwas telling Sarah that they lost
five children over the span oftheir lifetime and Sabah
(24:11):
Menachem was the happiest man Ihave ever met.
He was deeply, deeply investedand deeply joyous in his Yiddish
guide.
And so I think that in today'sday and age, where we're looking
at people who are experiencingtremendous tragedy and there's
tremendous adversity andtremendous pain around us, and
(24:33):
sometimes people can think likehow do I go on being in my
Yiddish guide, how do I go onbeing feeling uplifted, how do I
go on being positive?
And we look at people who wentthrough.
They lost their home, they losttheir identity, they're living
in a society where they don'teven really speak the language.
(24:54):
They did not speak Hebrew.
They spoke fluent LashanahKhaidish, but not Hebrew.
And they were positive and theymade you with what was.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, yes, yes, where I can tell you really that it
was so hard for us as childrento believe the thing like this
can be done.
Like my father said, he ranaway because they wanted to cut
his beard and his payout andtaking them to assimilate them.
(25:27):
So they took him to Aselia,they mixed them and this was the
beginning.
Then you know what's flyingaround.
They put me in a secular school, all of us.
If my father would not take me,they would put my father in
jail.
That was the beginning of theMedinat, israel.
(25:49):
Definitely it was conflict.
Yes, I had a lot of conflictbecause I was in a vice secular
school and I come home to a homein Yemen, not even Israel
because at home I spoke LashanahKhaidish.
I didn't speak Hebrew.
It took me two years in orderto change my language to Hebrew,
(26:11):
regular Hebrew.
And my father?
I had to promise him that I'mgoing to say to him, she'll show
him every day, he will sit in abackyard, listen to me, and I
will have the place to come homeand not to say it.
I was going to tell you, yes,but we were very close family.
They saw what's going around,how all this Fardima being
(26:34):
assimilated how the kids.
Their parents are primitivebecause all the mothers don't
know to read and all the peoplecame from very they were not so
modern society.
And it was not easy for a lot.
(26:54):
I did not feel it so muchbecause at home we were very
proud, we never felt poor,because the other two in the
house was very positive and alsowe had a family.
We helped each other.
I don't know, not all familyhad this privilege.
It wasn't easy for a lot ofJews in Israel who come, and I'm
(27:17):
sure it was not easy for someJews who came after the
Holocaust you know it too, theHolocaust case who came from
Europe.
They were not allowed to eatkosher food.
So in the beginning it wasn'teasy for Orthodox Jews who came
from abroad, especially for theMiddle East.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I want to talk a little bit about the Emuna and
the Bitafah that Sabah and Sabahstand.
Even with everything and evenafter everything, they were
still so committed to theirfaith and they were joyous in
their faith and they were happyand they were invested.
And they weren't.
We talk a lot today abouttrauma.
(28:01):
They weren't these deeplytraumatic people in a way that
they couldn't continue toconnect to Hashem.
I wonder why?
What is it about them?
We could talk about so manythings.
They lost children and theylost their home and they lost
their identity and they lostalmost, they almost lost their
faith, even in the yin andaround them.
(28:22):
So what kept them committed totheir faith?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think the way you go up with the positive, with
honesty, with all your life, youlive Torah.
You live it.
It's not just a word, it's likeI remember until today I am
with my parents, the products ofmy parents.
I know there are some thingsthat nobody can give it to me.
(28:52):
It's just come in a DNA.
My parents were honest people.
There is no question.
There is no itchakmurta.
You say that you don't do shiitwith Hashem, you don't do shiit
with Torah.
You just don't and don't try tobe spilasov.
It is what it is.
That's what Hashem said.
(29:13):
That's it.
Don't start yotim shiitv'chochmah.
It was not such a thing ofbeing angry at Hashem and the
v'chozav'yot v'chotzu v'chozal.
Hashem and my mother, two kidspassed away.
Naturally, they were not babies, there were seven, there were
one of them five, and then theytook away a daughter and they
(29:36):
took a baby and the shak'v,coming to such a secular world
which he did not understandwhat's flying around.
It was hard, but I think theimuna and the attitude and the
positive, I think that's whatkept them from not being bitter
and love shichbe imuna v'chotzuv'chok.
And we all have that.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Wow, I am having a hard time processing this.
This sounds like a huge shock,a tremendous shock.
It's everything you everbelieved in is gone.
And imagine like going from alkanfei nisharim to the very
opposite, the extreme opposite.
But it's not even being done bynon-jews, it's being done by
(30:21):
fellow Jews.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
We used to tell my mother, my parents, how could
you, how could you not know?
They said you, why aren't theydoing what you will do?
Then how and when we say whydon't you go and scream and yell
and be no sin?
They said et ushen.
And we did as you know.
We did not understand.
(30:43):
We said what's wrong with you,how can you?
They said, I'm sure that youdid.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I think that's what we have to listen to, sarah.
This is what my mother keepssaying again and again, that my
Saba and my Safda they keptsaying we don't talk bad about
Yidin, we don't even even eventhe Yidin who took away their
kids yes, they.
We don't talk bad about Yidin,we're not Mechatric on other
Yidin.
And and it's the simple, simple, simple Emuna and simple is not
(31:17):
a bad word.
I think sometimes people thinkoh, simple, this Adela, simple
Emuna, that I trust in Hashem100%.
I don't understand it.
I can't.
Maybe I, I, I can't put my headaround it.
It doesn't make any sense to meat all.
But I'm happy because I knowHashem has a plan and I trust
(31:38):
that.
But it wasn't fake, it wasn'tme singing a song about it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Not me for bringing about it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's people who lived this.
They really believed it in theessence of who they were.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
They didn't grapple with their Emuna Emuna was there
, but I'm wondering, I'mwondering, if initially, when
they came to Israel, the shockthere was no language right,
Because they spoke a completelydifferent language.
Do they speak Arabic or LashanOkay?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
they they spoke the Hebrew was like a combination of
Aramaic Hebrew and a little bitArabic and Yemenite.
Arabic is not the same as likePalestinian or Egyptian.
It's different.
It's a little bit different.
But they, they spoke LashanAkodesh.
So the Arab did not understandalways and they can't twist it
(32:26):
along with me.
You know they twist it.
I can tell my daughter what inkind in Hebrew, but she won't
understand it because theytwisted the extension and they
mix it up with another Aramaicone.
So if you don't know Aramaic,if you don't know a little bit
of Arabic, you don't know LashanAkodesh.
You don't understand.
(32:47):
It will sound to you like adifferent language.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, I guess what I'm wondering is so they didn't
have a language and everythingis such a shock to their system?
Yes, but do you think yearslater, when they finally, you
know, were acclimated andintegrated, then they could feel
anger, then they could feellike the shock or the the
(33:13):
mistress and how they weretreated and how they were taken?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
away.
No, they never assimilated.
They did not want to, they didnot.
My, my father, my mother had agroup of ladies Yemenite.
They used to come to my motherevery Shabbat and talk she was
not going out too much to otherthe world.
No, they did not.
Yes, they they it's not in theworld, angry Like if they see.
(33:40):
We had a neighbor for Romania.
He was not so much about and my, my parents did not even get
close.
They did not want us to go somuch to them because they didn't
know the Kashrut.
They did not want us to be andthey did.
But they never talk bad aboutthem.
No, they did not.
(34:02):
I never heard my parents and myparents tried to look for them.
They did, but they did not knowwhere to go.
They always told them go there.
They're not here.
And even we, we have a papernow, but that she's alive.
At that time they said, yeah,we have a paper, she's alive,
but we don't know where.
They just said that they, shemoved from Israel at a certain
(34:26):
time and this was my.
My sister got from the missileopening from the interior office
, but they cannot give you theaddress, they're not allowed to.
So I know she's someplace here,I don't know.
And I know I have a babybrother that now is not a baby
(34:47):
but him.
I think it's almost lost casebecause they took him before he
came to me, before he made itwith it at home.
They sent him before him and,and excuse that, he's not
feeling well, it was live.
But you know what?
My mother cried every morningat five o'clock in the morning.
She thought we slipped and weheard her talking to her shame
(35:10):
and crying.
We didn't understand that somuch because we were children,
we didn't really appreciate.
We really cried.
Yeah, I said why Emma alwayscry, but she did not want to
talk about it too much becauseit was painful and nobody
understood her.
And yes, when I grew up, I wasangry, not my mother, I was
(35:33):
upset.
I get, how could that be?
How could you do that?
I thought only nothing to do.
I remember I said and somebodywanted to interview me about
that at the time and my mothersaid no, we have enough enemy.
You want to tell her bed, weare done.
So I could not say.
I said right away yes, and thenI told my mother and she said
(35:56):
don't do it.
I didn't sleep for nights and Isaid I'm not going to do it
Because my mother said they tookit, took them and we tried to
find and they knew it's how theycould not find them.
They just deal with a shame,but we don't send the night off,
said they were not angry, wewere angry, we had the children
(36:19):
laid on.
I think if I, if we knew that wewill not be so tolerant and
they have about Israel around usto other people In my family we
really never talk, never had LaJamera at my home.
We never talk about if somebodyneeds help, my mother would do
it with a blink eyes.
(36:40):
If we knew all this story todetail, I don't think we will be
to me, mean, be my, but Israel.
I know that today.
I know I have today more angry,but it's not angry of hate,
it's, like you know, painfulangry you know, you know what I
(37:02):
mean.
Why did it have to happen?
Why it had to be like that?
That yes, yes yes, and theystruggle.
They did not have, but allIsrael struggles at the time.
They never complain.
I'm telling you I never feltunful, never.
But I'm saying when people talkto me, I said it's the attitude
(37:25):
, it's the emunah and thepositive and learning Torah at
home that mimut, you know,that's really what make the
house.
And I once tell somebody to berich, you can have a million and
you have attitude of a poor guyand you can have people with
(37:45):
that attitude of rich.
And that's the way I felt athome and the emunah and that
this emunah gave me a lot ofpower for my own struggling.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And I can tell you that so it's a very, very
interesting story and I'mwatching Sarah and I keep
texting Sarah Sarah, you're offscript, because to me, these are
the stories that I grew up withand the stories that you know,
my mother tells my kids and Ilike come to her and I'm, like
you know, intergenerationaltrauma.
You can't tell, you can't tellthe kids about all your you know
(38:14):
, your brothers and sisters whowere taken away and who died,
and not good stuff.
So I'm listening to you, sarah,being all fascinated by it.
But I think that the messagethat I keep hearing from my
mother and the message that Isaw growing up from my Saba and
my Safda was the real simplefaith and just trust in the
(38:35):
process, in the bigger picture.
And I think sometimes in ourtremendous knowledge and maybe
our egotistical space of you,know we know better, we
understand better, we canjustify it and we can negotiate
with Hashem and we can expectbetter outcomes from the world
around us.
Sometimes we forget that it'sjust really that simple, that
Hashem has a plan and it mightlook messy and it might look
(38:57):
ugly and it might lookuncomfortable and it might look
unpleasant, but Hashem has aplan and we know the ending and
the ending is going to bewonderful and it's going to be
great and we need to trust theprocess a little bit, even if
the way to the process is not sogreat, absolutely Okay.
So, ima, what do you think themessage that you would give
(39:17):
people who are looking at theworld around us today at the
anti-Semitism, at the hatred, atthe suffering that people are
going through.
What message do you think thatyour life's journey and the
life's journey of your parentsand your siblings and Yemenite
Jewry could share to today?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I should be honest with our Torah, with our
behavior.
We should really, really be theEmmet Ima Hashem, and we have a
call to the Torah and be strongand not to get hurt in the
hands, but in the hands of ourJews, and I give a space to
other Jews, Give a space toothers.
(40:00):
These are the two Jews.
It's okay If he's a little bit,but he's the other Shammai,
that's okay.
And be good and have a badIsrael between us.
That's the main thing thatreally keeps us.
La mi ba kalosh b'churah pashut.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
So, ima, thank you so much for sharing.
No problem, yemenite Jewryreally did what they needed to
do for thousands of years tokeep their faith.
And really, today, it was morethan just their faith.
It was their connection to thebase of Magdash.
And they're, you know,preparing for BS Mashiach by
just marrying Laveem to Laveemand Qayhanem to Qayhanem.
(40:41):
And the fact that they, youknow, refused to come back if
the base of Magdash wasn't fullybuilt by Binyan, by his Shani,
for the second base of Magdash.
And they continue to justcontinue, holding on to the
messiah that they had as Laveemand as Qayhanem.
And I'll just end up with avery interesting fact that I
think is very cool that theywere so focused on their family,
(41:05):
messiah and their family tree.
My family can actually tracethemselves all the way back to
Qayrach, that's very, very good.
My father's side, my Saddamal-Ahmad's family.
They know that they come.
You know, they know whichLaveem family they're from and
they can actually trace all theway back.
(41:25):
And it's a very interestingthing to understand that this is
people who had travesty.
They struggled financially,struggled with the people around
them.
They struggled, but they hadcomplete, simple imuna.
They had complete betafam thatmessiah was coming and that they
were going to come back to aland where they were able to
(41:46):
serve Hashem in a way that theypreserved for thousands and
thousands of years.
And I want to end with this ideabecause I think that that's
what we need to hold on to today, as we're getting closer to
messiah.
We need to hold on to ourmessiah and we have to hold on
to our traditions and we have toprepare our children and
prepare ourselves becausemessiah is coming, and we have
(42:07):
to really hold on to the factthat this is the next step.
And so, when we're talkingabout faith under fire, I want
to end the series with the ideathat our people have been under
fire before, and it isabsolutely first-sortened the
fact that we are about to enteran era of eternal peace and an
(42:30):
era where we're going to haveHashem down here in this world
and there's going to be all thegood things for all of Am Israel
.
Oh man, that's a shame.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you
so much.
It was amazing, thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Okay, thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil Zneginprovided by Hazan David Ketak.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
We look forward to your input, feedback and
suggestions.
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info at bodiessouls dot com.
Again, info at bodies souls dotcom with two S's, Thank you.
Hi and welcome to our podcast, Bodies and Souls
Conversations for the JewishWoman.
Good morning and welcome tothis episode of Bodies and Souls
.
Your host for today are RivkiBoyarski and Sarah Lohenthal.
Today we have the honor andprivilege of having my mother
with us.
My mother is actually hererepresenting the last part of
(00:29):
our series where we'reinterviewing different women who
are representative of differentstruggles in different
communities around the diaspora,and today we are interviewing
my mother as a representative ofYemenite Jewry.
So, Ima, can you start us offand just tell us a little bit
about how Jews got to Yemen andwhat their place was in Yemenite
(00:54):
society?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It's known in my family that my family was there
since Baitrishon, the Aleviimfrom generation, all of them
from both sides, the marriedonly Levy coin, levy-levy to
keep it as inside Shabbat-Levy,and this was kept until the camp
(01:18):
of the Israeli.
I was the last in Yemen.
What I had for my family thatthey were segregated from the
Arabs, but they had a simple.
They had their own life.
They did not live amongst theArabs.
Most Arabs did respect them.
They lived by their own andthey would go to work when they
(01:41):
got to the Shukr there and mostof the Jews were really, they
were not female.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay, so tell us about the Jews in Yemen and how
they got to Yemen.
Okay fine.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
After Choban Baitrishon, the Jews mostly from
Shabbat-Yehuda or fromShabbat-Levy.
They left Israel and went toYemen.
They had the Nebuah fromYermiau and they followed his
Nebuah and they went there andstayed there until 1948.
(02:13):
They lived mostly in littlevillages.
They were not really livingamongst the Goyi and my father I
can tell you about my parents.
They were all Levine and theytried to stay amongst
Shabbat-Levy.
My mother father was a Jewlerand he also was a sheikh and he
(02:35):
also was kind of Rosh Kehilawhen the Jews did not, when Ezra
and Haemiah I'm going to toucha little bit with history when
Ezra and Haemiah invited me tocall the Jews to come back, the
Jews of Yemen did not want tocome back and as a result he did
cast them that they're going tobe poor.
(02:55):
Nobody will see the Gdula untilthe Atamashiach.
They're going to have a lot.
There will be a lot of peopleand really you see this, in
Yemenite almost every family hastheir own shul and they really
very, very, very.
Madly there were no luxuriesfor the Jews in Europe, but they
(03:19):
were very.
They kept their Torah and kepttheir Eben and Hagem very
strictly.
When I read the book of EbenSapir I learned a lot.
My parents came from the cityand they had a different way of
diving and they followed the RamBam.
They dove in according to theirBaladi which is a little bit
(03:43):
different.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I just want to backtrack.
You mentioned that every familyhad its own shul.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Every family.
You have to understand.
They lived like Hamula a familythe parents, the children, the
aunt, the grandmother.
So it was very family oriented.
They did not like the way todaywe don't, we're not really
familiar with it.
Everybody lived far away, buthere the mother will help with
(04:11):
the kids, the grandmother willhelp with the kids.
So they had a shul, many ofmany.
Shul doesn't mean every family,but definitely it would be a
few families.
That depend on where they liveand they lived really in a small
village.
Villages because Yemen is very,very mountainy.
(04:32):
So in order to avoidassimilating with the going and
also the going did not want themto be amongst them.
So they live in small mountains, they sleep in little, small
villages.
My parents, my mother, come fromSanaa.
My father was a city next toSanaa and remember we're not
(04:55):
talking about the same ghetto astoday.
That we know.
You know what I mean A city.
There was not a big city.
Sanaa was a big city.
If you look at, if you look tosee how Sanaa is built, so you
see they had buildings like freefloor, story home.
(05:17):
They were kind of Africancities.
They will advance the way theybuilt the houses and they were
allowed Jews who lived furtheraway by the closer to the border
.
So they were different Ema.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
what about the quality of life?
Did Jews have a good life inYemen?
Were there periods of betterlife or struggles?
What was the quality of lifefor Jews living?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
in.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yemen.
Did they have equal rights?
Did they have opportunities togrow?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
No, the Jews in Yemen were expected, but they did not
have equal rights.
For example, they could nothave horses it's only for the
Arab.
They were allowed to havedonkey.
They were not allowed to havetoo high birthing they were very
sure could not be too highbecause the mask has to be there
(06:15):
.
The kind of kept the Jews in alow profile, but they did expect
them.
They left very modest.
There were times the king wasgood, he would let them fill it
more easy, and sometimes theyhad to pay a lot of tax.
And not only that, they hadpolicemen who go for the city
any places.
(06:36):
If there is somebody who diedand they are often, very often
they will take the orphan kidsand attack them to be a Muslim.
But by the system amongst thoseJews they will marry them
quickly, before Even there willbe ten years.
My uncle, for example, marriedmany, many women but it was
(06:59):
factivity, it was not real inorder to save those girls from
going to be taken to the Muslim,to the Arab.
My mother, her father, passedaway, so she and her and her
sibling were not at home at thetime.
And where my father walked hetold him my father wanted my
(07:22):
mother already.
So he told him if you want thiswoman, go quickly, because
there are policemen going andnobody's there in house and she
left the city in order toprevent of getting married.
And then she, sometime, evenYemenite, will get married to
three women and really live withone woman, but they will give a
(07:48):
get in order to one.
Be a problem with a gunna, aproblem with marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Can you just go back to what you said about your
uncle?
Your uncle married multiplewomen in order to save them from
the Yemenite policemen smashingthem and making them Tell me
about this.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Okay, okay, my uncle was a very handsome man so he
was very fearless.
You have to understand, justsee my uncle to understand.
So he knew where they will hidethose girls and he dug under
(08:28):
under the house where they keptthem and he took them out of
there, married them on a spotand when he came back they
caught him.
They heard that he's doing thatand he also used to kidnap them
and take them out of thoseplaces.
And then he had to run awaybecause they were after him and
(08:50):
he ran away with the boat.
He ran to Adam and he came muchmore later, after my parents,
because he could not go back toYemen and he could not go back
to Israel at the time.
And he did come and then I wastold he had to go find all those
young girls and give them a get.
(09:10):
And one of them he did not wantto give a get, but she was very
young, she was before him fortwo years and they already told
her you're young, what do youget married Because they want to
assimilate them.
And he gave her a get becauseshe she said, I'm too young, she
was 14, 15, coming to Israel.
(09:33):
They already told them, theyalready tried to brainwash them.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's very interesting I see like echoes of this
mentality in even in the storyof the stories of like, how
Arabs reacted to the young girls, even in October 7th, that you
know the ownership of these likegirls who were unattached, that
they just took them.
It's the same type of mentalitythat we're listening to you
(09:59):
speak about of the Arabs takingownership of young girls and
just taking them for themselves,which is an insane thing from
our perspective of where we'restanding.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
But in Yemen they knew because the kids, the
family were religious, they knewthey are good value.
They did value them very much.
It was, it was a very high totake a Jewish girl, a woman, a
girl and make an Arab.
It was a good quality ofconverting.
But right.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
that doesn't make it any better, that makes sense, of
course.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Now I know that you'll see his father.
Okay, there was somebodyrelative who got orphaned and
his father was young and theyknew that if she's not going to
get married the next two daysshe's going to be taken away.
Yossi told us his father nothis father, he's the grandfather
(10:56):
took his father and told himyou have to marry her.
He said I don't want to marryher, I don't like her.
It's the showing, the girl.
And it got to the point that ifshe's not going to get married
she's going to be taken the nextday.
Even holding by his head, byhis leg.
If you're not going to getmarried to her now, we're going
(11:21):
to be the beating, the rabbitsalone and the Torah.
Now we're going to kick you outand you have to get married to
her.
And you was not very happy.
But he got married.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It was a way of them saving these girls, from falling
in a very, very bad situation asituation that nobody wants to
be in very, very similar to whathostages are, not to compare.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's a horrible situation, Okay so my parents
said life was okay.
They did not ask for life.
They believed time to come toIsrael did not come.
Yet they did not want to goback.
They kept them hugging the wayit used to be long ago and they
did not even want to get married.
(12:08):
If a rough come from Egypt as aShliah want to marry, for
example, his daughter to one ofYemenite boys, yemenite did not
want to get married even toanother Jew out of the Yemen
because they wanted to keep themin hugging and everything.
I'm not saying in Maliuta orthe Gariuta, I'm just saying a
(12:29):
little bit of their mentalityand culture.
When my parents came to Israeland if we saw a Jewish guy, even
from Yashiba, without a beard,they did not trust him because
they never saw a beard, withouta beard and they would not even
take the help, even when theywanted to help them.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I want to just talk about one more thing.
If I remember correctly correctme if I'm wrong it was possible
for people to achieve some formof wealth in Yemen, Right?
Yes, so Safdarina, she camefrom a wealthier family.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
There was some sort of feeling of normalcy, that
feeling of success, feeling ofsecurity, feeling of even with
these stories that you're sayingabout orphans that are being
taken away for the Africanperson, there was still a sense
of we could succeed.
This can be our home, Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
In Yemen, the Arab did not even do any jewelry.
Only the Jews were theprofessional in this field, so
they were very, very valuable.
My father, like I, told youchildren there is a story about
the wealth.
That's the way they got a lotof money.
There was a story about thewealth that was at the
(13:49):
grandfather's home and untiltoday it's called Periyahish,
and people came to buy water andbecame Periyahish and they had
a big home.
My mother did also, because thefather was a jeweler and he was
a rosh, and every Thursday theywill shecht our kifsa and my
(14:11):
mother happened to be the onewho will put them in a little
bag and give it to the poorpeople.
This is the story.
I heard not only from my mother,from people who know my family
after my mother passed away, andthey said that that's what they
always called them, the goodpeople, because every Thursday
(14:32):
they will be distributed to thepoor people in the community.
Yes, my mother said they hadlike three floors.
One floor was the kifsa forPesach and the grandparents live
in one floor.
They live in one floor and theyhave our kitchen, which was
special for Pesach.
(14:52):
I don't think everybody wore,but there definitely was time
that the jews felt verycomfortable according to the
standard of Yemen.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I'm assuming that in the smaller little mountainous
villages that you described,that it was more poverty than in
the city.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, yes it was more poverty.
You're right.
Yeah, yes, they all they.
The Yemenites are divided, likein the city, a little bit of
Virgil, and there was a verydifferent exit, different custom
, different food.
But yes, more to the city,there were more Wealthier,
(15:31):
Wealthier.
I don't want to go intoeducation or anything like this
because what I gather, almostall, all all the young boys were
taught from when they werethree years old.
They already went to Torah.
So so they.
By the time I asked one kid,are you ready for your bombings?
(15:52):
I have to be a Yemenite kidtoday.
That is father.
He's so crazy to keep them inhugging.
So I said to him are you readyfor your bombings?
So what do you mean?
I'm going to the Torah for thefour.
I am, and I read all the timeevery year.
I know all the people, by theway for everyone who's listening
.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm just going to clarify in case you didn't hear
this.
The Yemenite people, they oncethe kids master reading the
Torah.
They can call them up evenbefore Burmitsvah.
So my mother asked the Yemenitekid are you ready for your
Burmitsvah?
And he said what are youtalking about?
I'm going to the Torah, sinceI'm four.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And I saw my father teaching my brother every
Shabbat and at the end of theday I read the Torah every
Shabbat, even to me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Right.
So the boys got a very, verythorough education which had a
lot of hallmarks, but the girlswere actually.
I know that my Safda Safdarinawas illiterate, but like my
mother will tell you, girls knewso much, even though they
couldn't read and write.
So I have my grandfather'ssister, doda Sara.
(17:00):
She was a tiny little lady Ican't even.
I can't even come back to theroom.
She was blind at the end of herlife.
But she was so small she wouldbe sitting in the window sill
with her blanket and we wouldalmost not notice her, but her
mouth was moving the whole time.
She knew that, to heal him fromstart to finish, by heart, she
sat in the window sill, blind inher own world, saying to him
(17:22):
again and again and again.
So the girls may have beenilliterate, but they knew a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The woman was allowed to sit and listen when the men
learned Torah.
So my mother was listening.
Half of the time there was aTalmud I think most men, because
they learned all the time theyknew and she was allowed to
listen.
She even corrected Dodiosi onceand he said to Doda how do you
know?
And she said I just said to myfather.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So there were a lot of Torah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Even she didn't know Torah, which bothered me, but
yes, she knew a lot, she did.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
So fascinating.
I love all the details thatyou're giving over.
I would love to hear moredetails, but at this point I
think I want to hear about thevery famous operation with a
called Magic Carpet, when allthe Jews from Yemen in 1948 came
to Israel and I was Googling,it looks like there's around
(18:23):
50,000 Jews that lived in Yemen.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And there's like one Jew.
So all 50,000 of them werebrought to Israel.
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Okay, what really was special about this operation is
the way the Shluchim came totell the Jews in Yemen that they
are, there is a plan going towait for them to come to Israel
and it's time to come.
So they all kind, took it veryserious and they just got
(18:53):
together.
Nobody was expecting them tocome in short time, so they all
kept on different, like in fewweeks.
But it was disaster by the timethey got because nobody
explained to come so much.
My father he told me that hehad two store, one store doing a
(19:14):
blanket and pillows and theother store had he was doing a
shoe, shoes.
So what he did, he said theywere not allowed.
They talked to each other inshoe.
So everybody said what are theygoing to leave Yemen?
So the kind was kind oforganized operation.
So he put his needle.
(19:37):
He said you're not allowed toleave Yemen without permission
and without passing on yourprofessional.
So in order to go around that,he just left the store open,
left the middle in a blanket,left everything open and it took
, like he took, I think, threedonkey.
(20:00):
He hired one for the twograndmother.
He made like a basket in eachside and each after side on one
side and the other one.
The other donkey was from mymother and two sister and the
other one was my father and thefood.
They did not go into our city,they went around so nobody would
(20:23):
see them.
But the new adventure they tookfood with them and they walked
aloud.
If you see a picture of myfather, my parents, getting to
Aden, you think they arehardcore survivors.
He said they walked for weeksin a desert and a heat.
They could not even go intoArab town.
(20:43):
They stayed outside.
And then, where a lot of themcame, to Aden nobody expects so
many Jews to come and there wasno place.
There was only one doctor ortwo doctors and two nurses, one
tent, they said a lot of peopledied because there was no food.
(21:03):
It was horrible.
So by the time they went to theplan, a lot, of a lot.
I know my mother, see, mymother lost two boys, but before
they left, yeah, but beforethey left, yeah, two boys, yeah,
she did, and two boys she leftand they were happy to believe.
But when they did not expectIssa to be the way it was, they
(21:27):
were not expecting to see notreligious people, and they were
sure.
And the other time I heard it.
They told me they wanted to goback because they saw what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So they were sure that Operation Magic carpet was
actually Mashiach.
They were sure that they weregoing to be and this was going
to be Al-Khanfin-Isha'aron.
They were going straight toMashiach.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yes, and the sad things was, and my father said,
they took all the jewelry fromthem before the border plan.
They took all the books, sifreiTorah, with an excuse it's too
heavy for the plan, you'll getit later.
In Israel Never happened.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
They lied.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
They took it but them seeing the plane that looks
really like a bird, they reallybelieve that really Mashiach is
coming.
How old were you?
I did not born yet.
Only my sister, my two sister,one sister, marka, and other
(22:38):
sister was taken away.
So she was my sister was seven.
My other sister, ora, was five.
I thought they only took awaythe infant they took also an
infant, but she was five yearsold or four years old.
Yes, they took her, my sister.
She was there for a few months.
(22:59):
She went to to, to nursery, toa gun, and my sister was picking
up every day and when she cameto pick up, wonder, they said
they went for a trip and theywould be back the next day.
They never came back and thebaby.
They just told my mother putyour finger here because she did
(23:19):
not sign.
And she did with a finger andshe didn't know that she's
signing to give the baby away.
They took advantage of thehonesty and the timid mood and
the honesty.
And then I'm not knowing what'sflying in Israel.
And that's what happened and Isaid tragedy which I do not like
(23:44):
to talk.
My parents did not want to talkKetrogalam, israel, but now
it's all known.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So I want to, I want to get to that to the point that
Sabah Menachem and Safdarinawere people of great faith, deep
faith.
They had tremendous Amunah,probably the most Amunah of
everyone I know.
And, just from perspective, Iwas telling Sarah that they lost
five children over the span oftheir lifetime and Sabah
(24:11):
Menachem was the happiest man Ihave ever met.
He was deeply, deeply investedand deeply joyous in his Yiddish
guide.
And so I think that in today'sday and age, where we're looking
at people who are experiencingtremendous tragedy and there's
tremendous adversity andtremendous pain around us, and
(24:33):
sometimes people can think likehow do I go on being in my
Yiddish guide, how do I go onbeing feeling uplifted, how do I
go on being positive?
And we look at people who wentthrough.
They lost their home, they losttheir identity, they're living
in a society where they don'teven really speak the language.
(24:54):
They did not speak Hebrew.
They spoke fluent LashanahKhaidish, but not Hebrew.
And they were positive and theymade you with what was.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, yes, yes, where I can tell you really that it
was so hard for us as childrento believe the thing like this
can be done.
Like my father said, he ranaway because they wanted to cut
his beard and his payout andtaking them to assimilate them.
(25:27):
So they took him to Aselia,they mixed them and this was the
beginning.
Then you know what's flyingaround.
They put me in a secular school, all of us.
If my father would not take me,they would put my father in
jail.
That was the beginning of theMedinat, israel.
(25:49):
Definitely it was conflict.
Yes, I had a lot of conflictbecause I was in a vice secular
school and I come home to a homein Yemen, not even Israel
because at home I spoke LashanahKhaidish.
I didn't speak Hebrew.
It took me two years in orderto change my language to Hebrew,
(26:11):
regular Hebrew.
And my father?
I had to promise him that I'mgoing to say to him, she'll show
him every day, he will sit in abackyard, listen to me, and I
will have the place to come homeand not to say it.
I was going to tell you, yes,but we were very close family.
They saw what's going around,how all this Fardima being
(26:34):
assimilated how the kids.
Their parents are primitivebecause all the mothers don't
know to read and all the peoplecame from very they were not so
modern society.
And it was not easy for a lot.
(26:54):
I did not feel it so muchbecause at home we were very
proud, we never felt poor,because the other two in the
house was very positive and alsowe had a family.
We helped each other.
I don't know, not all familyhad this privilege.
It wasn't easy for a lot ofJews in Israel who come, and I'm
(27:17):
sure it was not easy for someJews who came after the
Holocaust you know it too, theHolocaust case who came from
Europe.
They were not allowed to eatkosher food.
So in the beginning it wasn'teasy for Orthodox Jews who came
from abroad, especially for theMiddle East.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I want to talk a little bit about the Emuna and
the Bitafah that Sabah and Sabahstand.
Even with everything and evenafter everything, they were
still so committed to theirfaith and they were joyous in
their faith and they were happyand they were invested.
And they weren't.
We talk a lot today abouttrauma.
(28:01):
They weren't these deeplytraumatic people in a way that
they couldn't continue toconnect to Hashem.
I wonder why?
What is it about them?
We could talk about so manythings.
They lost children and theylost their home and they lost
their identity and they lostalmost, they almost lost their
faith, even in the yin andaround them.
(28:22):
So what kept them committed totheir faith?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think the way you go up with the positive, with
honesty, with all your life, youlive Torah.
You live it.
It's not just a word, it's likeI remember until today I am
with my parents, the products ofmy parents.
I know there are some thingsthat nobody can give it to me.
(28:52):
It's just come in a DNA.
My parents were honest people.
There is no question.
There is no itchakmurta.
You say that you don't do shiitwith Hashem, you don't do shiit
with Torah.
You just don't and don't try tobe spilasov.
It is what it is.
That's what Hashem said.
(29:13):
That's it.
Don't start yotim shiitv'chochmah.
It was not such a thing ofbeing angry at Hashem and the
v'chozav'yot v'chotzu v'chozal.
Hashem and my mother, two kidspassed away.
Naturally, they were not babies, there were seven, there were
one of them five, and then theytook away a daughter and they
(29:36):
took a baby and the shak'v,coming to such a secular world
which he did not understandwhat's flying around.
It was hard, but I think theimuna and the attitude and the
positive, I think that's whatkept them from not being bitter
and love shichbe imuna v'chotzuv'chok.
And we all have that.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Wow, I am having a hard time processing this.
This sounds like a huge shock,a tremendous shock.
It's everything you everbelieved in is gone.
And imagine like going from alkanfei nisharim to the very
opposite, the extreme opposite.
But it's not even being done bynon-jews, it's being done by
(30:21):
fellow Jews.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
We used to tell my mother, my parents, how could
you, how could you not know?
They said you, why aren't theydoing what you will do?
Then how and when we say whydon't you go and scream and yell
and be no sin?
They said et ushen.
And we did as you know.
We did not understand.
(30:43):
We said what's wrong with you,how can you?
They said, I'm sure that youdid.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I think that's what we have to listen to, sarah.
This is what my mother keepssaying again and again, that my
Saba and my Safda they keptsaying we don't talk bad about
Yidin, we don't even even eventhe Yidin who took away their
kids yes, they.
We don't talk bad about Yidin,we're not Mechatric on other
Yidin.
And and it's the simple, simple, simple Emuna and simple is not
(31:17):
a bad word.
I think sometimes people thinkoh, simple, this Adela, simple
Emuna, that I trust in Hashem100%.
I don't understand it.
I can't.
Maybe I, I, I can't put my headaround it.
It doesn't make any sense to meat all.
But I'm happy because I knowHashem has a plan and I trust
(31:38):
that.
But it wasn't fake, it wasn'tme singing a song about it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Not me for bringing about it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's people who lived this.
They really believed it in theessence of who they were.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
They didn't grapple with their Emuna Emuna was there
, but I'm wondering, I'mwondering, if initially, when
they came to Israel, the shockthere was no language right,
Because they spoke a completelydifferent language.
Do they speak Arabic or LashanOkay?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
they they spoke the Hebrew was like a combination of
Aramaic Hebrew and a little bitArabic and Yemenite.
Arabic is not the same as likePalestinian or Egyptian.
It's different.
It's a little bit different.
But they, they spoke LashanAkodesh.
So the Arab did not understandalways and they can't twist it
(32:26):
along with me.
You know they twist it.
I can tell my daughter what inkind in Hebrew, but she won't
understand it because theytwisted the extension and they
mix it up with another Aramaicone.
So if you don't know Aramaic,if you don't know a little bit
of Arabic, you don't know LashanAkodesh.
You don't understand.
(32:47):
It will sound to you like adifferent language.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, I guess what I'm wondering is so they didn't
have a language and everythingis such a shock to their system?
Yes, but do you think yearslater, when they finally, you
know, were acclimated andintegrated, then they could feel
anger, then they could feellike the shock or the the
(33:13):
mistress and how they weretreated and how they were taken?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
away.
No, they never assimilated.
They did not want to, they didnot.
My, my father, my mother had agroup of ladies Yemenite.
They used to come to my motherevery Shabbat and talk she was
not going out too much to otherthe world.
No, they did not.
Yes, they they it's not in theworld, angry Like if they see.
(33:40):
We had a neighbor for Romania.
He was not so much about and my, my parents did not even get
close.
They did not want us to go somuch to them because they didn't
know the Kashrut.
They did not want us to be andthey did.
But they never talk bad aboutthem.
No, they did not.
(34:02):
I never heard my parents and myparents tried to look for them.
They did, but they did not knowwhere to go.
They always told them go there.
They're not here.
And even we, we have a papernow, but that she's alive.
At that time they said, yeah,we have a paper, she's alive,
but we don't know where.
They just said that they, shemoved from Israel at a certain
(34:26):
time and this was my.
My sister got from the missileopening from the interior office
, but they cannot give you theaddress, they're not allowed to.
So I know she's someplace here,I don't know.
And I know I have a babybrother that now is not a baby
(34:47):
but him.
I think it's almost lost casebecause they took him before he
came to me, before he made itwith it at home.
They sent him before him and,and excuse that, he's not
feeling well, it was live.
But you know what?
My mother cried every morningat five o'clock in the morning.
She thought we slipped and weheard her talking to her shame
(35:10):
and crying.
We didn't understand that somuch because we were children,
we didn't really appreciate.
We really cried.
Yeah, I said why Emma alwayscry, but she did not want to
talk about it too much becauseit was painful and nobody
understood her.
And yes, when I grew up, I wasangry, not my mother, I was
(35:33):
upset.
I get, how could that be?
How could you do that?
I thought only nothing to do.
I remember I said and somebodywanted to interview me about
that at the time and my mothersaid no, we have enough enemy.
You want to tell her bed, weare done.
So I could not say.
I said right away yes, and thenI told my mother and she said
(35:56):
don't do it.
I didn't sleep for nights and Isaid I'm not going to do it
Because my mother said they tookit, took them and we tried to
find and they knew it's how theycould not find them.
They just deal with a shame,but we don't send the night off,
said they were not angry, wewere angry, we had the children
(36:19):
laid on.
I think if I, if we knew that wewill not be so tolerant and
they have about Israel around usto other people In my family we
really never talk, never had LaJamera at my home.
We never talk about if somebodyneeds help, my mother would do
it with a blink eyes.
(36:40):
If we knew all this story todetail, I don't think we will be
to me, mean, be my, but Israel.
I know that today.
I know I have today more angry,but it's not angry of hate,
it's, like you know, painfulangry you know, you know what I
(37:02):
mean.
Why did it have to happen?
Why it had to be like that?
That yes, yes yes, and theystruggle.
They did not have, but allIsrael struggles at the time.
They never complain.
I'm telling you I never feltunful, never.
But I'm saying when people talkto me, I said it's the attitude
(37:25):
, it's the emunah and thepositive and learning Torah at
home that mimut, you know,that's really what make the
house.
And I once tell somebody to berich, you can have a million and
you have attitude of a poor guyand you can have people with
(37:45):
that attitude of rich.
And that's the way I felt athome and the emunah and that
this emunah gave me a lot ofpower for my own struggling.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And I can tell you that so it's a very, very
interesting story and I'mwatching Sarah and I keep
texting Sarah Sarah, you're offscript, because to me, these are
the stories that I grew up withand the stories that you know,
my mother tells my kids and Ilike come to her and I'm, like
you know, intergenerationaltrauma.
You can't tell, you can't tellthe kids about all your you know
(38:14):
, your brothers and sisters whowere taken away and who died,
and not good stuff.
So I'm listening to you, sarah,being all fascinated by it.
But I think that the messagethat I keep hearing from my
mother and the message that Isaw growing up from my Saba and
my Safda was the real simplefaith and just trust in the
(38:35):
process, in the bigger picture.
And I think sometimes in ourtremendous knowledge and maybe
our egotistical space of you,know we know better, we
understand better, we canjustify it and we can negotiate
with Hashem and we can expectbetter outcomes from the world
around us.
Sometimes we forget that it'sjust really that simple, that
Hashem has a plan and it mightlook messy and it might look
(38:57):
ugly and it might lookuncomfortable and it might look
unpleasant, but Hashem has aplan and we know the ending and
the ending is going to bewonderful and it's going to be
great and we need to trust theprocess a little bit, even if
the way to the process is not sogreat, absolutely Okay.
So, ima, what do you think themessage that you would give
(39:17):
people who are looking at theworld around us today at the
anti-Semitism, at the hatred, atthe suffering that people are
going through.
What message do you think thatyour life's journey and the
life's journey of your parentsand your siblings and Yemenite
Jewry could share to today?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I should be honest with our Torah, with our
behavior.
We should really, really be theEmmet Ima Hashem, and we have a
call to the Torah and be strongand not to get hurt in the
hands, but in the hands of ourJews, and I give a space to
other Jews, Give a space toothers.
(40:00):
These are the two Jews.
It's okay If he's a little bit,but he's the other Shammai,
that's okay.
And be good and have a badIsrael between us.
That's the main thing thatreally keeps us.
La mi ba kalosh b'churah pashut.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
So, ima, thank you so much for sharing.
No problem, yemenite Jewryreally did what they needed to
do for thousands of years tokeep their faith.
And really, today, it was morethan just their faith.
It was their connection to thebase of Magdash.
And they're, you know,preparing for BS Mashiach by
just marrying Laveem to Laveemand Qayhanem to Qayhanem.
(40:41):
And the fact that they, youknow, refused to come back if
the base of Magdash wasn't fullybuilt by Binyan, by his Shani,
for the second base of Magdash.
And they continue to justcontinue, holding on to the
messiah that they had as Laveemand as Qayhanem.
And I'll just end up with avery interesting fact that I
think is very cool that theywere so focused on their family,
(41:05):
messiah and their family tree.
My family can actually tracethemselves all the way back to
Qayrach, that's very, very good.
My father's side, my Saddamal-Ahmad's family.
They know that they come.
You know, they know whichLaveem family they're from and
they can actually trace all theway back.
(41:25):
And it's a very interestingthing to understand that this is
people who had travesty.
They struggled financially,struggled with the people around
them.
They struggled, but they hadcomplete, simple imuna.
They had complete betafam thatmessiah was coming and that they
were going to come back to aland where they were able to
(41:46):
serve Hashem in a way that theypreserved for thousands and
thousands of years.
And I want to end with this ideabecause I think that that's
what we need to hold on to today, as we're getting closer to
messiah.
We need to hold on to ourmessiah and we have to hold on
to our traditions and we have toprepare our children and
prepare ourselves becausemessiah is coming, and we have
(42:07):
to really hold on to the factthat this is the next step.
And so, when we're talkingabout faith under fire, I want
to end the series with the ideathat our people have been under
fire before, and it isabsolutely first-sortened the
fact that we are about to enteran era of eternal peace and an
(42:30):
era where we're going to haveHashem down here in this world
and there's going to be all thegood things for all of Am Israel
.
Oh man, that's a shame.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you
so much.
It was amazing, thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Okay, thank you for listening.
We hope you enjoyed and grew.
Original music of Shamil Zneginprovided by Hazan David Ketak.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
We look forward to your input, feedback and
suggestions.
We also have partnershipopportunities available.
Please email info at bodiessouls dot com.
Again, info at bodies souls dotcom with two S's, Thank you.
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