April 15, 2024 • 58 mins
When Miriam Raskin speaks about her journey, her words carry the weight of lived experience and the lightness of profound healing. Our latest episode is a heartfelt tale of her battle with eating disorders and the spiritual solace she discovered within the teachings of Chassidus. Our guest sheds light on the tightrope walk between maintaining control and succumbing to the chaos of life, which often manifest in one's relationship with food. From the quiet desperation of calorie counting to the academic and social hurdles that accompany such struggles, Miriam shares the details of her daily battles and eventual breakthroughs.
We celebrate as Miriam finds freedom through dance and the profound teachings of Chassidus. This episode isn't merely a conversation; it's an invitation to join a dance of joy and connection, to embrace one's unique journey, and to recognize that amidst the trials of life, there is a pathway to freedom paved with understanding, compassion, and the timeless insights of Torah and Chassidus. Join us and be inspired by Miriam's song of resilience and the harmonious chords of personal growth.
To reach Miriam Raskin, contact her on instagram @freedomdancer.
To sponsor an episode of Bodies & Souls, email us at
info@bodiessouls.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Good morning and welcome to Bodies and Souls, the
space in which you hearauthentic conversations from
real Jewish women talking abouttopics that are relevant to you.
You're going to walk away fromthis conversation inspired,
connected and feeling uplifted.
Today we have Miriam Raskinwith us.
Miriam is going to talk to usabout her journey through an
eating disorder, what it's liketo develop an eating disorder,
(00:25):
to live with an eating disorderand to overcome an eating
disorder.
We're going to talk about ourrelationship with food, exercise
and the world around us, but,most importantly, we're going to
talk about freedom andchassidus and how that was her
guiding light through thisjourney.
So, without further ado, hereis Miriam.
(00:50):
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarsky.
Today, I have the pleasure ofhaving Miriam Ruskin here with
us.
From Pomona, miriam is known asFreedom Dancer on social media.
She runs a series of workshopstalking about her journey from
having an eating disordertowards living an elevated and
connected life through theteachings of Chassidus.
(01:12):
So, miriam, before we start,tell us a little bit about
yourself and what led you todoing the work that you're doing
.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, so you introduced me already the basics
, so I'll just go into the workthat I'm doing.
I started off with the eatingdisorder, which later not really
dealt with what the causes wereled to anxiety and depression
as the older married woman.
And then, when I got throughthat and realized what was
causing it, I wanted to sharethat with everyone because I was
(01:43):
able to access this freedom andknowing which direction Hashem
wants me to go and connect somuch more with my life, with my
children, with everyone and mostof all with Tara and Hasidus.
It had always been somethingthat was irrelevant to me.
I wasn't a bad girl, I didn'tgo off the derrick or anything,
(02:05):
but I just lived my life in avery kind of numb way.
And when I was able to getthrough this whole saga, I was
able to suddenly really feelevery detail of my life and
every part of Taran Hasidus comealive to me.
So that's what I share now inmy workshops.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So you talk about this saga of an eating disorder.
So I will say that, as someonewho taught high school and
someone who's in healthcare, Ithink that this is a
conversation that we might notbe having as much as we really
should, which is surprising,because we've kind of been
having this peripheryconversation about eating
disorders for many, many yearsbut we've never really gone into
(02:45):
it in a real way and I think apart of that is because still
societally, like, there's asense of fear and weight stigma
and fat phobia, and so ifsomebody is on the other end of
the spectrum with an eatingdisorder, we're like, okay,
they're fine, right, they'reeating healthy food, they're at
a healthy quote unquote, like myair quotes are on you know,
healthy weight, they're doingwhat they need to do, and we're
(03:06):
almost like, okay, they're fine.
So I think it's a veryinteresting and important and
relevant conversation and I'veabsolutely seen, you know, girls
struggling with this and thisaffecting their reproductive
health and this affecting theirsense of well-being and this
affecting, you know, all partsof who they are and, just like
you're saying, it kind of givesyou a sense of control, but it
still leaves you with this deepsense of numbness and I think
(03:28):
that we really have to haveimportant conversations like
this so that we can help people,that they don't have to go
through life, you know, doingthe struggle on their own.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Most of all when we help others with this.
When we help others with this,we realize what within ourselves
is not so fully aligned, thatwhy are young girls and teens
suffering from this is.
It comes from the top down andwe come to realize what's really
going on.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I love that because when I do my puberty talks, I
always tell the schools I'm notjust going to come and talk to
your girls, I must talk to themothers, because I get the girls
for 45 minutes but the mothersget the girls for a lifetime and
we need to talk about what ourbiases are and what's holding us
back and what our relationshipis with ourselves and with our
food and with our bodies andwith you know our sense of self,
and that changes theconversation for our daughters
(04:19):
in a very exactly.
Yeah, I love that you broughtthat in.
It's something that actuallyRukhama from MASK taught me when
I started doing this work, andI think it's just it's a piece
that we miss way too often thatit's always multi-generational,
especially when girls aredeveloping.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
They were like but our teachers even talk to us
like this, like the teacherwalks in every day and comments
on this girl's body weight andthat she doesn't stop eating and
whatnot.
Like that she's too thin.
Or on her own or on her own andher own stories and her own
(04:56):
issues and whatever.
And the way I try to come intothe classrooms, as you know,
when I'm talking to the highschoolers, is like you could
change the way your parents andthe world.
You're going to be the change.
That's what I try to give themover because, yeah, I would love
if their parents change andthey will but I want to empower
(05:17):
them that they are able tochange everything that's been
going on until now, like theycould retroactively, and they're
going to be the change for thefuture.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
That's kind of like my go-to when I come to the
Cosme you could do this, youcould do this and they can
because, honestly, like I see alot of the young moms also, like
in my postpartum groups, andthe narrative is changing and I
think it's such a beautifulthing to watch.
Do I think it's changing foreveryone?
Do I still think the bubbiesare coming in?
I mean, of course they are andthey're, like, you know, eat
(05:48):
more, or they're sitting andwatching the kids eating, or
they're saying, you know you atetoo much.
It's one or the other.
It's never right balance.
It's like I went recently to anolder relative's house and they
sat and like, watched me eat andI like it was the most out of
body experience because I waslike I didn't grow up with
someone doing that and I likeafterwards, the next day, they
had spoken to another olderrelative that I met for lunch
(06:10):
and she was like, oh, they toldme you only ate.
I was like that should not be adiscussion like this.
Is an eating disorder in themaking.
Can we talk about this?
Um, but it's very interestingand I think some part of this
and maybe we'll get to this, youknow at some point, and I think
some part of this and maybewe'll get to this, you know, at
some point in our conversation.
Some part of this isintergenerational trauma of food
scarcity.
(06:30):
Right, like.
Some part of that is going tobe about, like you know, there
was an element of you got tofinish your plate because I grew
up without food and I need tomake sure you're eating.
And you know the old Russianbubby who's, you know, feeding
the kids and like, making surethat they're eating.
And you know this is a lovelanguage.
This is the way that they, youknow, express I love you so much
, I'm going to feed you.
And then there's the oppositeend of like, oh, exactly, and we
(06:53):
all have to fit into thebeautiful dress because she's,
like you look so good, like that, and why should your beautiful
face be on a body that doesn'twork?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I should say the words like I'm like both ways.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, so what led you personally let's talk about
your journey a little bit whatled you to develop an eating
disorder and I'm sure we're notisolated into like this one?
Exactly, right.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
When I share, I know no other person is going to have
my exact story.
The reason I share is forothers to find in their lives
what caused them to slowly moveout of who they are and try to
control parts of their lifebecause of the overwhelming
emotions.
So what led me?
(07:37):
Personally, when I look back,there was a bunch of changes in
my life.
It was around fifth, sixthgrade.
I had older sisters that gotmarried that year.
It was a change in the schoolfrom one teacher to six teachers
, which meant that instead ofhaving a relationship with the
teacher, it was about my gradeon the paper.
(07:58):
There was a thing that happenedto me.
I don't share what exactly itwas, but something happened at
that age that caused me a lot ofshame and when I shared this
with my class I rememberedafterwards.
So I came back the next day andI told them I said many times
something shameful could happento us or we do something
(08:21):
shameful, so it works either way, but everyone's going to go
through stuff that they madewrong decisions or something
happened to them that makes themfeel ashamed.
Either way, it doesn't reallymatter what it is, and this
accumulation of thisshamefulness is too much for us.
We don't know how to deal withit.
(08:41):
We weren't given tools to dealwith it, and so we try to become
something else.
We weren't given tools to dealwith it, and so we try to become
something else.
We lock that part down and wetry to control things.
So for me, it was thatparticular incident, together
with not having support in mylife, that I went to a clothing
store to buy uniforms and theperson in the store kept
(09:02):
bringing me the next size up.
So in my mind, the storystarted in the uniform store,
but looking back, it reallystarted from all these changes
in my life, and every time theybrought me the next size, the
waist stayed the same, but theskirt got longer, which they
never changed.
They still do that, I'm like atleast make it elastic.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Jewish stores are not .
I don't know who designs Jewishclothing, but it's not designed
for healthy children like.
It's just not designed in a waythat actually makes any sense.
So the kid just looks slumpierand schleppier and the waist is
not there if they're a littlebit bigger, like waist.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That's it.
I like it gets long and thin.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And women's clothing as well.
It's happy, right, like it juststretches out like the only
thing that happens that you'reallowed to do in the from stores
Laffy, taffy out, that's it.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
My youngest are twins , so post having them, I went to
the Jewish clothing store threemonths after.
I felt like I was almost backto my size, couldn't find a
thing.
Everything was long and thinand I was like now I really
understand why people can't findclothing in the Jewish stores
Like you go to any other store.
There's elastic, there's, youknow, you can put a belt to it,
you know something, whatever,anyway.
So I go to the clothing storeand my sister was with me.
(10:26):
They keep bringing me the nextsize and it's not closing and I
ended up just buying like abiggish kind of skirt but it
still wasn't comfortable and Idecided I must need to lose
weight.
That must be why I can't evenfit into the normal clothing
size.
I must need to lose weight.
So I started being a very gooddieter or what I thought.
I didn't consult with anyonebut I got so many compliments.
(10:49):
This is like development stage.
You know when you're thatawkward nine, 10, 11 year old,
you know.
And then suddenly I'm just likelanky, very thin, 12 year old,
so like it looked good.
But afterwards when I went toschool for nutrition and
dietetics, I'll get to that soon.
We learned that pre puberty,that age nine, 10 and 11, you
(11:12):
were supposed to gain weight.
You're supposed to.
Your hormones need the extrafat and in my family it was a
source of shame because we allgained that weight from nine to
12.
We all mature pretty young,whereas friends of mine, maybe
we're more like 1617.
I was at 12.
And most of my family was likethat.
Like the whole family wouldcomment oh yeah, you're gaining
(11:34):
that nine year old weight, likeyou know.
And so I was suddenly thin andI felt very proud of myself and
I got so many nice complimentsand all was great.
And then it became not so great.
Within like a year or two myparents began to like comment no
, no, no, you need to eat more,you're not eating enough.
I had stopped getting myperiods and I was insistent that
(12:00):
I was fine because my bodyweight was fine.
Again, when I went to schoolfor nutrition and dietetics,
they changed the criteria foranorexia and eating disorders.
You could be overweight andanorexic, does not matter.
But in my mind I was very wellversed in the nutrition
magazines.
I was in the right BMI, I wasfine and I didn't see a problem
(12:22):
with what I was doing.
Yeah, so that's pretty muchwhat led to the eating disorder.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I want to help our listeners focus on three points
.
The first point was how youngyou were, where this started.
You would speak about being infifth and sixth grade.
So, just for context, that'saround 11 years old, 1011 years
old.
That's a very young child, andI do think that eating disorders
can start at that age, and I'veactually seen it start younger
(12:49):
as well.
So, just in case you think it'sonly people who are 16, 17, who
are having these type of youknow challenges, know that it
can start at a younger age.
The second thing I want topoint out is that you spoke
about control.
I was hoping you would talkabout control a little bit,
which you did, that this gaveyou a sense of control when life
became chaotic and life becameoverwhelming.
You controlling your foodhelped you get a sense of
(13:12):
control, and I think that thisis a big part of why a lot of
young women fall into thispattern, which is they're just
feeling out of control forwhatever reason whether it was a
trauma, whether life becamechaotic.
There was a big move.
You know, they just you know,maybe their parents are
overbearing, whatever it isthose things can then lead
someone to say, you know, I needto have a sense of control.
(13:33):
Maybe food is something that Icould control and that does not
just work into controlling howlittle I eat, but actually maybe
even controlling how much I getto eat.
Right, so it can go in eitherdirection.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
On, that point of control.
You're just, as you're sayingthat you're reminding me.
I don't know if you've everread the Choice, yes, Okay, so
she has this point.
She says, like go back in yourmind to when your childhood had
ended and you know youradulthood started.
When did your innocence end?
(14:04):
And I think maybe this is thespace where we get into that
space of control, because wedon't know what to do with it.
When that innocence changes andsuddenly you have a lot to deal
with everyone.
Most people will choose someway of trying to control their
life and for some people toeating disorder.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Other people it's going to be something else right
and that's a very importantthing for us to start noticing.
And, you know, at a certain age, our kids do need to, you know,
be able to control parts oftheir lives and feel like a
sense of control and ownership.
And the third point I want tobring to you is that you
actually mentioned a very goodpoint and I mentioned this when
I do puberty talks which is thatit is normal and healthy to
(14:43):
gain weight, and I actually saya number about 20 pounds.
So, on a little kid who'shitting puberty, 20 pounds can
feel like a lot.
That's a big jump, but it'sabsolutely necessary to have,
like you were mentioning, thosefat stores that you then have a
healthy reproductive andadolescence growth, and that's
very, very important.
(15:03):
So I want parents who arelistening who might be looking
at someone who is a preteen orin their early teenage years and
they're like, oh my gosh, theygained so much weight.
You don't have to say anything,just wait a minute.
They're going to do what theyneed to do.
Hashem created our bodies thatwe do, as women need fat stores.
Our breasts are fat, our hipsare fat, our bottom has to be a
(15:23):
little bit more round, ourstomachs have to be.
These are healthy things.
This is how we support healthygrowth and development.
It's exactly how our bodies aresupposed to look hormones rely
on fat 100%.
Yes, that's really, really,really important for us to
understand.
So, if you don't mind me askingMiriam and totally gloss over
this, if it's something that'suncomfortable, what type of
(15:47):
eating disorder did you have andwhat was it like living with an
eating disorder?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Okay.
So, like I mentioned before,when I went to school they told
me the criteria changed.
So if I were to go back, Inever got diagnosed.
So I also, like when I share it, I say I had this ordered
eating because I never gotdiagnosed with it.
Also, like when I share it, Isay I had this ordered eating
because I never got diagnosedwith it.
But if I look back as adietitian now, it was a
nutritionist.
I can't call myself a dietitian.
(16:13):
That's another thing.
It was anorexia, because it waslimiting food intake and
control on food.
There's bulimia, which is morelike trying to numb feelings by
just ingesting a lot of food.
So it wasn't that.
You know.
That's pretty much what I sumup that it was.
So I was a pretty muchhappy-go-lucky child, very much
(16:36):
giggly all the time.
My neighbors used to love tomake me laugh and whatever.
And around sixth grade, whenthis started, a classmate
commented to me how, like Miriam, what happened to you?
Like that's all she said.
What happened to you?
And that was the first moment Irealized that I wasn't acting
the same, or you know, I becamea lot more serious.
(16:57):
My grades went from pretty muchan, a student, to like C's or
lower.
I had no involvement in class.
I don't know if that had to dowith one teacher and six
teachers or with the eatingdisorder I still don't know but
I think a lot had to do withbeing not fully present in the
classroom.
I was so much in my head tryingto control and think how many
(17:19):
calories to get through the dayand how little could I eat.
But how much do I need to haveenough energy to get through the
day and how little could I eat,but how much do I need to have
enough energy to get through theday.
Like that was my constantcalculation in my mind.
When I went to camp I couldn'tsleep at night.
I had insomnia, I think becausethe lack of calories together
with I just didn't have thehormone balance to be able to
(17:43):
relax enough.
I didn't have serotonin.
There wasn't any flation in meto fall asleep.
Ball games I would get dizzyafter.
If I went swimming I would feelso faint I would try to sneak
into the nurse's office andweigh myself.
Going to camp was so scary forme because at home I had a scale
.
I knew what I was, in camp Ididn't.
(18:10):
So I would try to sneak intothe nurse's office to weigh
myself, um, but that wasn'tallowed.
So I would like go before hoursand try to weigh myself.
So, even more.
So I would limit even more andtry to exercise more, because I
had no idea what, what weight Iwas like if I had any control.
Uh, that was yeah, that'spretty much.
It like going from from themore easy personality to very
tense and the the uninvolvementin my life, like hanging out
(18:31):
with friends, was non-existent,because you're usually chatting
over food and nosh.
I would like try to go to sleepin camp and everyone would be
up for bringing and partying andI would just be like, just help
me fall asleep, asham, becausejust numbness, complete numbness
and no joy.
There wasn't a joy, it was justsurvive, to get to the next day
, to get to the next day.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Just uncovering our biases a little bit, as I'm
listening to you, I think mostpeople listening would be like,
oh, if I was a camp nurse and akid snuck in to use the scale,
I'd be like, ha ha, teenagerright.
Like they're so obsessed withtheir body, like I don't even
think that.
Like to me as someone who'ssuper aware.
I don't know if you had donethat once and I had caught you
(19:14):
once, but I have been like, oh,we have a serious problem.
And then even if I would havesaid, you know, we have a
serious problem to someone, Ithink everyone would laugh like,
oh, it's just teens, you know,it's just teens.
So I think just uncovering ourbiases a little bit, to thinking
about how societally obsessedwe are with our weight, that
(19:36):
we're able to just excuse thistype of behavior, whether we're
educated or whether we're not,is something that's very
important and that comes from Imean it's.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
it's even promoted.
If you read a health magazine,they say, like you know, monitor
your weight, have a scale inyour house.
It seems to be a healthy thing.
That's what it's been marketedas A hundred percent and it's
really not.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
No, it's really, really not.
And I actually I was at thedoctor's office and they had
asked one of my kids to go onthe scale and I said, why do you
need this?
Kids like we're not here forantibiotics, we're not here for
a well visit, why do you needtheir weight?
And they're like it's standardprocedure.
I'm like, well, it shouldn't bestandard procedure, what do?
you need to wait for and she waslike it's just standard.
I'm like, okay, so you couldwrite down that.
The mother was difficult.
(20:17):
She refused go you.
I'm like no problem.
My kid was like my, maybe weshould have just let it go.
I'm'm like maybe we should have, but you don't actually need it
and I actually spoke to adifferent provider in that
office and I was like maybe youshould talk.
I was like I've tried, this isjust how they are.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
There's actually such a thing called a blind scale,
where so I tell my kids to turnaround.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I tell my kids, like, when we go on the scale, we
face the other direction.
If well, we face the otherdirection.
If the provider feels they needto know it for a sense of
control, by the way, that's allit is then they can have it, but
it means nothing to you Ifyou're exercising well, you're
eating well, you're taking careof yourself, making sure you
feel you know, supported, andwhat is the number telling you
(21:00):
the size of your shirt?
Great, you know the size ofyour shirt already, you're okay.
Yeah, so I think that, just likechanging, the culture comes
from so many different placesand we're not in control over
all of them all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But your little impact in the doctor's office
could help change things.
I know it's like a littlecomment, but if every parent
came in like that, they wouldn'thave it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, they wouldn't, but honestly like I don't think
that every parent comes in likethat.
Exactly.
But we should.
There's no, like a little kid.
We need to know their weight,we need to know they're gaining,
we need to know they're growing.
If a child comes in and there'sweight based antibiotics, we
need to know their weight.
But a child who's coming inbecause their arm hurts, like
why are we taking away?
(21:40):
What does that have to do withanything?
And she was here a month ago.
You know her weight.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I mean even pregnant woman.
You know they monitor theweight like crazy.
Why?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
What's that?
They monitor the weight whenthere's a big jump, okay, but
here's the difference.
So a lot of midwife practicesand this is totally we've gone
off on a tangent, but this isimportant to talk about our
biases and the healthcare system.
If there's a large jump, then Iwould be worried about certain
health conditions that areassociated with a large jump,
but I would also see that ifyou're seeing a provider
continuously, I would still seethat big jump.
(22:16):
But a lot of midwife practices.
What they've done now is,instead of you coming in and
getting weighed by someone else,is that you have ownership over
the weight, so you can chooseto weigh yourself in the
bathroom or you can choose todefer it, and that would be a
choice.
And again, I think a lot ofthis has to do with a whole
nother discussion, which isgiving patients autonomy over
(22:37):
their care rather than givingthe providers an illusion of
control which we really don'thave control over, which is a
whole nother discussion.
But, again, we're going back tothis concept of control, which
is the weight is giving someonea sense of control, and in this
case, it's actually not you,it's the provider, exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I had experiences.
Post everything, you know,weight to me.
I don't, I don't own a scale, Idon't monitor my food, I don't
have anxiety now and whatever,but post everything.
When I was pregnant with mytwins.
Now the doctor would weigh meevery week and even post that.
Post everything I've beenthrough and and learning and you
(23:21):
know, and turning everythingaround.
When he gave me a lecturebetween two visits.
I saw him between two and hegave me such a lecture that if I
gained too much weight I won'tbe able to get the babies out.
I was set into such a tizzy andit didn't make any logical
sense Because, like if I thoughtabout even to him, it didn't
(23:43):
make any logical sense why he'sgiving me this, this rundown.
If you looked at theaccumulation of the months that
I was nauseous for the firstfive months, then of course
there's like a jump from five tosix because I, you know, lost
weight in the beginning.
Whatever it was, even if helogically looked at it better,
he would see that it made sensewith all logical.
(24:07):
My whole body went into fightor flight because it's a lot.
You want to protect your babies, you want to not have a
unnatural birth.
You know, like you don't wantto be cut open or whatever.
And he's given me this wholelecture and I had to re come
back into myself and study again.
And this was another pregnancy.
I met someone in the park andshe's telling me her doctor
asked her what she's eatingevery day.
A very, very tiny woman, a tiny, tiny woman.
(24:29):
And the doctor's lecturing herthat she's eating too much
avocado and salad for lunch.
She should cut it back.
And she's asking me what to doBecause she's like if I don't
have a good lunch, then I'm likenoshing on dried mango at night
.
She's like I'm a very healthyeater but I just not enough food
for me.
So she's like I like havinglike a big salad of like eggs
(24:50):
and avocado and whatever.
And if I don't have that, whenI listen to him and cut it back,
I'm like noshing on dried mangoat night.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And I'm like it's important to also note that your
OBGYN is not a nutritionist andyour OBGYN is not trained to
actually give you that advice.
And the advice that is givenabout how much weight to gain is
has not been updated in a superduper long time.
And just because someone isoverweight, that does not mean
that they're going to have alarge baby.
(25:20):
If someone has gestationaldiabetes, there's a correlation
there, but if somebody is small,they can have a large baby.
If somebody is large, they canhave a small baby.
That is not a thing.
Miriam, getting back to yourjourney and I think we've moved
forward to how certain thingsare triggering to get you back
to this Exactly A young personstruggling, and I think that
(25:42):
this was a very important thingfor people to hear what helped
you move out of this space ofdisordered eating.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So there was like a bit of a shock that got me out
of it.
My brother-in-law was learningto be a PA and he was learning
about eating disorders.
At that point it was around age15.
And he and my sister sat medown and they said listen, I
know you think you're dietinghealthy, but you're not getting
your periods.
Your hair is falling out,you're feeling numb, whatever,
like all the symptoms I had.
You, you're probably anorexic.
If you don't start eating again, you might not never have kids,
(26:18):
you're going to have healthissues, you might die.
And for me it was enough of ascare, because I don't think I
ever moved into that space of.
I think there's like a certainpoint of no going back sometimes
with the eating disorder wherethe brain, even if someone
scares the life out of them,it's not going to help.
But for me that scare wasenough to make me eat again.
(26:42):
It didn't heal my relationshipwith food, but I really wanted
to have a large family and Iwanted to get married one day
and I didn't want to die.
So I started eating again, butI wasn't eating.
It wasn't like I had a healthyrelationship with food.
So I decided you know what I'mgoing to eat like whole grains
and sugar.
So I guess it moved more intoorthorexia.
(27:04):
When I like a password, movemore into that and which you
know like when I was in school.
Everyone that's there prettymuch has gone through multiple
different kinds of eatingdisorders and most people yet it
would move from bulimia toanorexia, to orthorexia.
And there's even today's mostnutritionists.
A lot of them are orthorexicunless they've taught themselves
(27:27):
and grown and whatever.
But many adults, the health,health conscious that you think,
are so healthy.
It's more orthorexia, which isa very big emphasis on healthy
eating, and they're scared, it'sa huge fear of eating anything
out of that space, anythingcontaminated or whatever you
want to say.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'm really glad you brought up orthorexia, because I
did it and then you did it aswell, and I was waiting for an
opportunity to talk about this.
We use the word healthy eating,and I think that this is what
you're talking about, which,again, I'm just going to point
out.
This is like a bias that wehave that certain foods are
healthy and certain foods areunhealthy, which is kind of what
that OB did, which is like oh,avocados are in the middle, like
(28:08):
, don't eat avocados.
But it's not just about goodfoods and bad foods, healthy
foods and unhealthy foods, andit's a much more nuanced
discussion, and food serves alot of purposes other than just
getting your nutrients in.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Exactly Like I'll fast forward to the part of
really healing from the eatingdisorder, so moved into
orthorexia.
And then, after I graduatedfrom school and went to seminary
, I came back home and decidedto study to be a dietitian, to
do the full on.
You know, college learn I'mgoing to learn everything about
the body so that all themagazines have no control over
(28:44):
me, like I'll be smarter thanthem.
And I also was so curious whysome people are underweight,
some overweight.
I wanted to be free.
I didn't want food to have anycontrol over me, I wanted to be
smarter than it.
And it really did do that forme going to college to learn
about it.
Because when I learned thescience behind food and
(29:07):
digestion, it lost all its holdon me.
The teachers that I had werevery much into like everything
in moderation.
We had one really sweet teacherwho would be like, if you're
gonna eat chocolate chip cookiesand make it with butter and
white flour, you know, and makeit with butter and white flour,
you know.
And that was the mentality thatI got from school and when I
(29:29):
left school, food had no controlover me.
By the time I was finished itwas like, you know, a cookie and
a piece of chicken.
Whatever my body needs rightnow is what's healthy for me,
like that's what it became, andthat's when I started working in
a doctor's office, because Ididn't end up getting my In
(29:50):
order to call myself a dietitian.
I need my internship, and Iended up pregnant with my second
child at the time and didn't doit.
But I had a job waiting for meat my brother-in-law's office
the same one who told me thatconversation.
He hired me as a nutritionistin his office and so I started
working there and within a fewweeks I noticed that it didn't
(30:11):
matter if I gave a client thebest nutrition plan you know,
like eat one piece of toast andone egg and what.
You know this that that which Iwasn't doing myself because I
had completely no hold on me,but people were coming to lose
weight, like that's why theycame to the doctor.
So I, you know, as anutritionist, was giving them
healthy eating plan.
(30:31):
It seemed amazing to them.
They were so on board andwithin three weeks they were
like yeah, I don't know, I'mfollowing it and nothing's.
I'm not losing weight anymore,or I can't do it anymore.
I want to go back to eating mykakash cake, you know.
And around that time I had readin, I think, was the Ami
(30:52):
magazine about intuitive eatingand right away clicked that
that's what I really was doingin my own life.
And why was I handing thepatients these nutrition plans
when I was doing intuitiveeating?
So I learned the principles andI started teaching that, as
they still requested theireating plan, but I tried to
(31:13):
stick in.
You know what's here,emotionally for you that is
keeping you back from fromfollowing healthy eating, cause
you know what's healthy betterthan I do.
Everyone knows what's healthy.
They could give me a wholelecture on.
You know the best foods to eat,but why are they not doing it?
And here's where I startedteaching them that naturally, a
(31:34):
baby doesn't eat past fullness.
You naturally know when to stopeating.
You naturally know not to eattoo much sugar.
Your body doesn't feel good.
What happens is, over time,these other voices come in no,
you're eating too much, no,you're eating too little.
And you stop listening to yourinternal voices.
And now it's this is healthy,so eat the whole thing.
(31:57):
You know like salad is healthy,so just keep eating it.
Chicken is healthy, so keepeating it.
Cookies are not healthy, so youdon't eat it and then you
gobble down in the closet.
At the end of the day it takesaway the whole enjoyment and the
whole way we manage foodnaturally within ourselves and
we think now we have no controlover eating and that we need a
(32:17):
meal plan.
That's what we think, butreally we each are built
differently, just like our shoesizes are different, and some
people are heavy and some peopleare thin, and it doesn't matter
how healthy they're going toeat, what kind of foods are
eating, it does not matter.
Your body naturally goes to theweight it needs to go for the
size you need to be, for yourmission in life.
It doesn't matter Like.
(32:39):
That's your unique mission andand even the whole, you know
you'll you'll read these healthmagazines and it'll be like you
know, be in your right BMI andeat healthy avocados and eat
pomegranates today and thistomorrow, whatever it is.
Even that your health andeverything is in control of
(32:59):
Hashem.
There are people that are sohealthy that have a heart attack
and there are people that areso unhealthy, are so healthy
that have a heart attack, andthere are people that are so
unhealthy and I'm not saying toeat burgers and fries and
whatever, but naturally we don'twant that.
If we're able to block out allthose voices and, okay, a huge
aspect here is emotions as well,which I'll get to then we
naturally could get there.
(33:20):
The only principle that's notin the 10 principles of
intuitive eating is emotionmanagement, and that's where,
for me, that's not in the 10principles of intuitive eating
is emotion management, andthat's where, for me, that's
what needs the most help.
When I was in school, one ofour teachers was very into that.
Really we need psychologydegrees, not nutrition degrees.
He's like you're going to comeinto a patient and they want to
(33:41):
do everything right and theycan't, and you have to help them
.
Want to do everything right andthey can't, and you have to
help them on block.
What's?
What's going on here?
Why is the food their friend?
Why is stress you know thestress eating or not eating
right?
Why are they not eating?
Because they're stressed?
Or why are they eating too muchbecause they're stressed?
What emotion is here that we'reuncomfortable with, that we're
not listening to, either to eator not to eat.
(34:03):
So that's really, at the end ofthe day, what it is.
So I, like I almost have, likeI have no desire to be a
nutritionist.
I can't do it anymore, like Icould technically have a job in
a doctor's office working asthat.
I have no desire to do itBecause I'm like that's not what
the point is.
The point is people willnaturally eat what they need to
(34:23):
eat, but what's going on inside?
That's what we have to work on.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So if you're listening to Miriam and you're
thinking, oh, but BMI?
My doctor always checks my BMII just want to clear up
something for you BMI wasinvented in the 1830s by someone
who was not a medicalprofessional.
He was an astronomer and amathematician and a statistician
.
The fact that in 2024, theentire medical community will
(34:52):
base their recommendations onBMI still does not make sense.
Like Miriam said, hashemcreated all of us with different
bodies, different eye colors,different hair colors, different
body shapes, different heights.
We were not created on afactory.
We are not all supposed to lookthe same.
We are not all supposed to, youknow, have the same fit into
the same size.
(35:12):
That's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Actually on the BMI, because you asked me earlier
what got me, what happened.
I told you about the uniformstore.
But I'm remembering now, asyou're saying, I remember my
mother had maybe goodhousekeeping or whatever it was.
As you're saying, I remember mymother had maybe good
housekeeping or whatever it was,and there was a BMI chart and I
look at it and I was too muchon the BMI and I was like no way
, this is so mortifying.
(35:34):
I'm like I'm not the size I'msupposed to be, I'm over my
weight.
That was also a huge fact thatI'm remembering now and like, oh
, I'm not who I'm supposed to be.
I have to work on myself.
I can't listen to my own body.
So where did Hasidus come intothis discussion?
Okay, so now, post working atthat doctor's office, post
(35:56):
figuring out about intuitiveeating.
Now I moved to Pomona because Iwas living in Brooklyn, I was
finishing my degree, just had myfirst two kids, and then we
moved to Pomona and life isbeautiful and we moved in the
spring.
I'm pregnant, I have two kids.
I had a hard time having myfirst kid.
So there's a lot of alwayswanting something, always
(36:18):
thinking you know, when I havethat I'll feel settled when I
have that.
So there was a wait for myfirst kid.
Then now we were in a house,we're settled right, and winter
came and I'm pregnant with mythird child and the schools
where you know where I live andthat year that I moved would
close down for a littlesprinkling of snow.
(36:40):
It felt like every day schoolwas closed and my kids, then two
and one, were home and I waspregnant with my third child.
So there was no way of makingmyself busy and distracted
because I had these two kids.
It wasn't like I could evenread a book or watch something
(37:01):
or go shopping.
I had these two kids with meand I'm pregnant with a third
child, which makes me feelunwell.
So I'm not.
I'm not either likereorganizing my house or
reorganizing the toys.
I'm literally sitting therewith two kids, one who didn't
stop crying and one who was, hada lot of energy and was jumping
all around.
And suddenly I broke inside andI couldn't stop crying and my
(37:26):
life kind of continued.
I still, you know, when schooldid happen.
I just still drove them toschool, I still went shopping,
still had guests for Shabbos,but all the in-betweens I would
just cry and cry and after a fewweeks of doing this, I told my
husband I needed help.
Then I went to see apsychologist and as I was
sitting there at first, shestarts saying you know what do
(37:48):
you do?
And she's like let's try tofind you a job, whatever.
I was like no, no, no, you'renot getting it.
Like no, my life is very busy.
I don't want a job right now.
I'm just.
I felt like what's the point ofliving?
That was in the sense of likeI'm going to raise these kids
and then they're going to do thesame thing.
They didn't feel like a pointof it, just felt so chaotic and
(38:12):
I felt so overwhelmed with myown emotions and with the kids
emotions and with everythingthat I felt like why am I going
to do this again?
So the kids do the same thingfor their kids?
There wasn't like anything tohold on to and I was like no, no
, no, it's not that.
So the kids do the same thingfor their kids.
There wasn't like anything tohold on to and I was like no, no
, no, it's not that.
And then I opened up about thisshameful thing that happened to
me as a child.
I knew I wanted to get it offmy chest, which is why I asked
(38:35):
my husband to book me with thetherapist.
I didn't tell him why at thetime, but I asked him to book me
because I wanted to get thisoff my chest and I shared it
with the therapist and my wholebody shook there.
There was just like a tremblingand everything came out and she
(38:57):
just asked questions to getmore and more out and I didn't
even know I had so much insideLike I thought it was just.
You know, like you have like ablip on your screen.
You know like no, it was a lotcoming out and as I maybe went
for two or three like this, gotit all out.
And she helped me shift from achildlike understanding to an
adult-like understanding becauseas a child I mean, I thought
(39:21):
and I think most children thinkthis is like you have control
over your life.
If, whether you did a mitzvahor an aveira, you have control,
you're gonna choose.
And I think most children thinkthis is like you have control
over your life and whether youdid a mitzvah or an aveira, you
have control.
You're going to choose.
And I think we're brought up tobelieve that as well.
You're punished if you do notgood and you're rewarded if you
do good.
So in my mind, because somethingshameful happened, it was my
fault, something majorlyhappened and I'm like I have to
(39:42):
make up for this my whole life.
I can't fully live my lifebecause I have to like kind of
make up for it.
And she helped me see, like youwere a child.
Children make mistakes.
Adult make mistakes.
We're human.
Humans make mistakes.
She's like imagine you knowsomeone in your life that age.
What would you think of them ifthat thing happened?
And I was like I would feel sobad, I wouldn't think anything
(40:04):
bad of them.
That thing happened and I waslike I would feel so bad, I
wouldn't think anything bad ofthem.
You know like so help me shiftfrom the childlike understanding
that I brought into myadulthood because I didn't
process it, to going back tobeing the adult in the situation
and seeing it from the adultperspective.
And when that was cleared forme, suddenly I was like light
and flying and full of love andfull of light.
(40:27):
And here's where I began tolearn Hasidus from people who I
connected with Rabbi SimonJacobson, rabbi YY, rabbi Sheis
Tal.
Suddenly they were talkingabout all my emotions that were
going on within me because I hadsort of locked everything away.
Because of that, it just kindof like everything morphed
together, you know one bigclosed lid on a container with
(40:50):
all my emotions, and now that itwas open I was like wow, oh, my
goodness it said that and I Imean I'm, oh my goodness it said
that in time I was like overthe moon and everything was
talking to me.
It was, I was so alive and Ihad my third child.
At that point and after I hadhim which, by the way, it was my
(41:10):
first child that I felt Like wehad a conversation going
between the two of us.
I just knew what he needed.
You know, we felt each other,whereas other kids it was like,
you know, have your baby, takecare of them, feed the bottle.
I was a good mother, like Itook care of them, but it wasn't
like this enjoyment and lovefor the whole process.
(41:31):
So after I had my third child,I was in the car one day and
there was a MordechaiBen-David's Yiddish song.
And I was in the car one dayand I was, there was a Mordechai
Ben David's Yiddish song and inmy mind I had this whole dance
going on and I always did this,even over the years.
Whenever music plays,Especially piano music, my mind
makes a dance for it or myfingers start dancing to it, and
(41:53):
so I'm like I want to get homeand dance.
And as I was dancing, I put onthat song.
I realized that my phone has aselfie camera.
Now I, you know, it was like anew idea at the time I turned my
phone around and I put it onthe fireplace and I recorded me
dancing and when I watched it Iwas like you look as free as you
(42:13):
feel.
You know it's one thing.
Like you know, you feel elegant, but then you look at yourself
and you really, you know, hotfloppy and whatever.
No, it really gave that messageof freedom, of letting go and
allowing things to go, to flowand emotions to go.
So I shared it with my mother,my mother in law a little bit.
My husband no one reallyunderstood what I was doing a
little bit.
(42:33):
My husband no one reallyunderstood what I was doing.
They didn't get what.
It was a friend, but here andthere, people got what I was
doing and at the time, a friendwho saw it.
She's like Miriam, go onInstagram.
It was a new thing at the timeGo on Instagram because you
could just have females followyou and you could have a page.
You share your dances, youshare what's going on and that's
(42:57):
when I started Freedom Dancerand I would share the Hasidus.
I learned that connected to memy emotions and little clips of
me dancing.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
As I'm listening to you, miriam, I'm thinking about
this big concept of Hasidim wereknown as the Freilicher, the
happy people, and it's sointeresting that when you found
your joy, you found chassidus,and in that there was, like this
intertwining of my joy, mychassidus, my dance, my
connection to hashem, like allthese things.
(43:27):
It was very interesting thatthat's where you found your
connection.
The other thing I wanted tobring up, which is so important
and you kind of said this in alot more words, but I want to
crystallize this thought forpeople who are listening is that
guilt is not a Jewish concept.
I don't care how much Jewishcomedians will be like my Jewish
mother guilts me, Guess what?
(43:47):
Nowhere in Tyra is guiltconducive to growth.
Nowhere in Tyra is that aconcept that, as Jews, we're
supposed to connect to.
So if you are feeling, you know, a sense of remorse, that's a
healthy thing, or a sense ofownership, or you know, those
things are great.
That's exactly what we want totalk about.
But guilt is not a Jewishconcept and I will tell you that
(44:09):
, even as someone who teacheskalas who are struggling, who
may be, you know, or women whoare struggling in the Yiddish,
kind of like yeah, but I did,and I'm like, okay, and like and
like, like Tyra's not here, forlike we don't do confessionals
and we don't sit in our guiltand we don't flog ourselves, and
like that's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
That was, I think, one of the first concepts that I
connected to with Rabbi SimaJacobson.
He was talking about exactlythat.
He's like guilt is nowhere inthe Torah.
There's nowhere in the Torahfor guilt.
Throw it out the window.
And I think today's Yitzhaharayou know, like every generation,
has our Yitzhaharas.
Our generation, as the Rebbehas said, is that we don't feel
(44:50):
worthy.
That's our Yitzhahara.
And a big, huge factor of thatis guilt.
And as you so clearly seewithin my own story that it's so
related how much alive we feelwith Tyra that it's not helpful
at all.
It's the opposite the moreguilt, the less you'll feel
connected.
That's pretty much the sum.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I love that.
Is there another specificconcept that you make sure to
bring across to your listenersor to your workshop attendance
or through your Instagram,through the work that you're
doing?
Is there another Hasidicconcept that you are like?
Hold on to this concept,Because this is almost like a
mantra.
This is almost something thatcan really shift and create a
paradigm shift in how we thinkof ourselves, our world, our
connection to Hashem.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
So I think what Rabbi Simon Jacobson introduced me to
was this concept that when wefeel safe and loved and secure
because he has you like there'sa whole imagery of like being in
the womb and protected andloved we automatically make
better decisions.
Right, we're not in our fightor flight state.
We naturally like Hasidus tellstells us is that we naturally
(45:58):
are good and so if we'renaturally good, then we're not
trying to protect ourselves fromdoing bad, we're trying to get
ourselves back to a safe spaceto be good we're because we're
naturally good.
So going back to like hashem'sarms, like the womb that we were
sat in exactly, and and what Istarted out when I Freedom
(46:19):
Dancer was about letting go andletting Hashem.
Letting go of control, becausethat's what's blocking us from
accessing our emotions, whichare really here to lead us to
clear them up so that we couldhave that space that Hashem
wants to be within us.
This is a huge concept inHasidus that the students, when
I give this over, it's like amind changer.
(46:41):
The world was created unified.
The reason for separation is sowe can have a relationship with
Hashem.
So any sort of guilt.
Hashem created you to mess up.
He wanted you to mess up tocreate coverings so that now you
could clear it and get close tohim and have a relationship,
(47:03):
because without that we woulddissolve into him.
Like that was the whole conceptof Moth and Torah that we
weren't separated enough fromhim, and that was it.
Boom, we went up to heaven.
So this whole concept ofcreating blockages within us and
then to clear them is supposedto happen.
That's the process, and so thishas come to really what it is,
(47:28):
and so the original let go andlet God.
This is really where it's at.
I don't know if I focus solelyon one thing.
I don't know if I focus solelyon one thing, but what I've seen
so clearly this year is thatI've begun to learn the last few
years of the Rebbe's life whenhe was with us, the Sikhas of
Tashin and Alfin and Baze.
Everything I've shared here isin those Sikhas and when I saw
(47:51):
it so clearly written out, theRebbe says about going out of
Mitzrayim.
What was going out of Mitzrayimand taking the treasures?
It's about?
You have all those blockageswithin you, right?
Mitzrayim is blockages and nowyou have to transform it to
treasures in order to go out.
You're not going out before youtransform them.
You got to transform them andnow you can't go out yourself.
(48:12):
You need to connect to Hashemto take you out.
Right?
Their cry, their big cry, andnow you go out and try him.
But how are you going to haveyour maten Torah?
What's your maten Torah?
Your personal Torah Is allthose things you've learned, all
those treasures.
You're going to process themand then you're going to have
your maten Torah.
You're going to receive yourown Torah because we're each
(48:33):
here, right 600,000 differentparts to reveal our part of the
torah.
So that's like really what I.
I don't think I focus on onething, but it's really very much
bringing in that the rabbitsays everything that I share in
such a beautiful way through thetorah, I love how like these
concepts that the world isconnecting to now in psychology
(48:56):
or therapy, or the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
As you know, as a society as a whole, we've had
this.
We've had this for millennia.
This is not a new concept.
This is us connecting to theoriginal truth and the ultimate
truth, rather than the fragmentsof truth, and I think we didn't
necessarily have the Kalem toreceive them.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
There's a reason why it's being revealed more now,
why we're understanding it.
It was always there and that'sour job in torah is to connect
the dots, is to take theknowledge of the world and
realize we have more in thetorah.
We have the truth is in thetorah, but the things that the
world teaches us helps open ourminds to what it means, because
(49:37):
it's that the world teaches ushelps open our minds to what it
means, because it's they arehere to help us.
The world is here to help theyidden reveal the the full torah
.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
I love.
I love that concept ofeverything is here to serve the
purpose of godliness andgoodness.
Miriam, tell us a little bitabout your workshop.
Are you dancing with the peoplewho are participating?
Are you talking with them Like,what is the format of the work
that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
So the format is sharing my story using the Revis
talks throughout, like bringingevery single part in as it
relates, while singing andshowing clips of different
dances I've done or differentspeakers that talk about that
relevant topic at the time.
So for high school students Itry to keep it to hour and for
women retreats it's more liketwo hours and I divide it into
(50:32):
two parts and I conclude it witha kumzitz.
You know the girls could get upand sing and the idea of it is
a modern day for bringing.
What if I bring in is is toheal ourselves, to connect us,
to connect us to Hasidus andTorah and to reveal our truth
(50:52):
and our Torah that's within us.
So I take the audience fromfrom what I told you, like
Yetzirah and Sarayim, until Madsand Torah, but depending on the
time of year it changesaccording to you know, like if
I'm talking Shavuot's time, it'sgoing to be that sequence, but
if I'm talking Sukkoth time orYitah's Kislev, I'll bring in
things that the Rebbe talksabout with Yitah's Kislev, which
(51:19):
will be more like concepts ofan olive being squeezed to get
out the oil.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I love that.
That sounds really, reallybeautiful and meaningful and I
think that it's absolutelybeneficial because you have all
this behind you in thestatements and that really holds
truth.
And then when people see thatit's something that's not
far-fetched and not somethingthat's abstract, it's something
that's real to you.
I think that authenticconnection is what really
(51:41):
touches people.
So do you have a last messagethat you want to leave our
listeners with?
Speaker 3 (51:47):
A last message.
I'll just leave with a littlethought that came to my mind
today.
I went away for the week withmy husband and we're in a
beautiful place, and yesterday Ifound it so hard to enjoy.
It was so hard.
It's a beautiful place, there'sno reason, absolutely no reason
, to not enjoy.
And I'm finding myself worryingabout the kids at home.
(52:10):
You know, is the pizza arrivein time?
The this, the that.
And I was like why can't I justlet go?
And this morning I did some yoga, I did some breath work, I
tried to work through everythingthat's going on and I realized
this little idea came to mindhow, imagine Gula happened today
?
Your body's not even ready.
(52:32):
You are ready, but are youreally ready?
Have you transformed all thoseblockages within you that you're
ready to receive so muchgoodness?
Because I'm sitting here, readyto receive so much goodness and
my body is resisting, itdoesn't want to enjoy, it still
wants to control in some way.
And that to me just kind ofbrings minuchah into my life.
(52:55):
When I understand theseunderstandings, like, oh, my
goodness, hashem, you wanted tojust tell me that message.
Thank you very much.
Now I can enjoy, you know.
So it was a very powerfulmoment.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
So, miriam, thank you so so much for joining us today
.
This was enlightening, this wasrelevant, this was real, and I
know I really enjoyed thisconversation, so I know that our
listeners will enjoy it as well, and so thank you so so much
for joining us.
I'm going to put Miriam'sinformation, her Instagram and
how to contact her for workshopsin the show notes.
(53:26):
I actually really do think thatthis is vital work for us to do
as moms on ourselves, as peoplewho have any standing in the
community, to really like lookat ourselves and unwrap our
connection to our bodies and oursouls and you know who we are
because we're changing aconversation for the next
generation of women, and that'sthat's tremendously powerful,
(53:48):
because we serve Hashem with ourmind, our bodies and our souls,
not just with learningAbsolutely so important.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
So, mary, thank you so much.
It was such an honor andpleasure to be here today and
connect so deeply with you.
I felt like you understood it,and that's what helps bring
everything out.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
And now we present to you a song by Miriam Raskin oh,
oh, oh oh oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
(54:28):
oh.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Ben Kodesh l'chol ani chai Im ha'emet shemesh
dolelepi, im elef hergilim imkol tzaleket.
With the truth that is hiddeninside me, With a thousand
habits, with every single wordthat I say, I want to re-examine
the words Between reality andZion.
(54:50):
Everything is back to me there,in the place with which I came.
There is no peace In theprocess.
It's hard and small, I'm notsure, shalom, and the journey is
a little bit of a pain for me.
(55:27):
I need to overcome it, overcomeit, overcome it, overcome it
(57:43):
no-transcript info atbodysoulscom.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Remember that's two S's.
If you have any feedback aboutthe work we're doing or if you
would like to connect, you canuse the same email.
I hope you have a wonderful,uplifting and amazing day.
Good morning and welcome to Bodies and Souls, the
space in which you hearauthentic conversations from
real Jewish women talking abouttopics that are relevant to you.
You're going to walk away fromthis conversation inspired,
connected and feeling uplifted.
Today we have Miriam Raskinwith us.
Miriam is going to talk to usabout her journey through an
eating disorder, what it's liketo develop an eating disorder,
(00:25):
to live with an eating disorderand to overcome an eating
disorder.
We're going to talk about ourrelationship with food, exercise
and the world around us, but,most importantly, we're going to
talk about freedom andchassidus and how that was her
guiding light through thisjourney.
So, without further ado, hereis Miriam.
(00:50):
Good morning and welcome toBodies and Souls.
Your host for today is RivkiBoyarsky.
Today, I have the pleasure ofhaving Miriam Ruskin here with
us.
From Pomona, miriam is known asFreedom Dancer on social media.
She runs a series of workshopstalking about her journey from
having an eating disordertowards living an elevated and
connected life through theteachings of Chassidus.
(01:12):
So, miriam, before we start,tell us a little bit about
yourself and what led you todoing the work that you're doing
.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, so you introduced me already the basics
, so I'll just go into the workthat I'm doing.
I started off with the eatingdisorder, which later not really
dealt with what the causes wereled to anxiety and depression
as the older married woman.
And then, when I got throughthat and realized what was
causing it, I wanted to sharethat with everyone because I was
(01:43):
able to access this freedom andknowing which direction Hashem
wants me to go and connect somuch more with my life, with my
children, with everyone and mostof all with Tara and Hasidus.
It had always been somethingthat was irrelevant to me.
I wasn't a bad girl, I didn'tgo off the derrick or anything,
(02:05):
but I just lived my life in avery kind of numb way.
And when I was able to getthrough this whole saga, I was
able to suddenly really feelevery detail of my life and
every part of Taran Hasidus comealive to me.
So that's what I share now inmy workshops.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So you talk about this saga of an eating disorder.
So I will say that, as someonewho taught high school and
someone who's in healthcare, Ithink that this is a
conversation that we might notbe having as much as we really
should, which is surprising,because we've kind of been
having this peripheryconversation about eating
disorders for many, many yearsbut we've never really gone into
(02:45):
it in a real way and I think apart of that is because still
societally, like, there's asense of fear and weight stigma
and fat phobia, and so ifsomebody is on the other end of
the spectrum with an eatingdisorder, we're like, okay,
they're fine, right, they'reeating healthy food, they're at
a healthy quote unquote, like myair quotes are on you know,
healthy weight, they're doingwhat they need to do, and we're
(03:06):
almost like, okay, they're fine.
So I think it's a veryinteresting and important and
relevant conversation and I'veabsolutely seen, you know, girls
struggling with this and thisaffecting their reproductive
health and this affecting theirsense of well-being and this
affecting, you know, all partsof who they are and, just like
you're saying, it kind of givesyou a sense of control, but it
still leaves you with this deepsense of numbness and I think
(03:28):
that we really have to haveimportant conversations like
this so that we can help people,that they don't have to go
through life, you know, doingthe struggle on their own.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Most of all when we help others with this.
When we help others with this,we realize what within ourselves
is not so fully aligned, thatwhy are young girls and teens
suffering from this is.
It comes from the top down andwe come to realize what's really
going on.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I love that because when I do my puberty talks, I
always tell the schools I'm notjust going to come and talk to
your girls, I must talk to themothers, because I get the girls
for 45 minutes but the mothersget the girls for a lifetime and
we need to talk about what ourbiases are and what's holding us
back and what our relationshipis with ourselves and with our
food and with our bodies andwith you know our sense of self,
and that changes theconversation for our daughters
(04:19):
in a very exactly.
Yeah, I love that you broughtthat in.
It's something that actuallyRukhama from MASK taught me when
I started doing this work, andI think it's just it's a piece
that we miss way too often thatit's always multi-generational,
especially when girls aredeveloping.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
They were like but our teachers even talk to us
like this, like the teacherwalks in every day and comments
on this girl's body weight andthat she doesn't stop eating and
whatnot.
Like that she's too thin.
Or on her own or on her own andher own stories and her own
(04:56):
issues and whatever.
And the way I try to come intothe classrooms, as you know,
when I'm talking to the highschoolers, is like you could
change the way your parents andthe world.
You're going to be the change.
That's what I try to give themover because, yeah, I would love
if their parents change andthey will but I want to empower
(05:17):
them that they are able tochange everything that's been
going on until now, like theycould retroactively, and they're
going to be the change for thefuture.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
That's kind of like my go-to when I come to the
Cosme you could do this, youcould do this and they can
because, honestly, like I see alot of the young moms also, like
in my postpartum groups, andthe narrative is changing and I
think it's such a beautifulthing to watch.
Do I think it's changing foreveryone?
Do I still think the bubbiesare coming in?
I mean, of course they are andthey're, like, you know, eat
(05:48):
more, or they're sitting andwatching the kids eating, or
they're saying, you know you atetoo much.
It's one or the other.
It's never right balance.
It's like I went recently to anolder relative's house and they
sat and like, watched me eat andI like it was the most out of
body experience because I waslike I didn't grow up with
someone doing that and I likeafterwards, the next day, they
had spoken to another olderrelative that I met for lunch
(06:10):
and she was like, oh, they toldme you only ate.
I was like that should not be adiscussion like this.
Is an eating disorder in themaking.
Can we talk about this?
Um, but it's very interestingand I think some part of this
and maybe we'll get to this, youknow at some point, and I think
some part of this and maybewe'll get to this, you know, at
some point in our conversation.
Some part of this isintergenerational trauma of food
scarcity.
(06:30):
Right, like.
Some part of that is going tobe about, like you know, there
was an element of you got tofinish your plate because I grew
up without food and I need tomake sure you're eating.
And you know the old Russianbubby who's, you know, feeding
the kids and like, making surethat they're eating.
And you know this is a lovelanguage.
This is the way that they, youknow, express I love you so much
, I'm going to feed you.
And then there's the oppositeend of like, oh, exactly, and we
(06:53):
all have to fit into thebeautiful dress because she's,
like you look so good, like that, and why should your beautiful
face be on a body that doesn'twork?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I should say the words like I'm like both ways.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, so what led you personally let's talk about
your journey a little bit whatled you to develop an eating
disorder and I'm sure we're notisolated into like this one?
Exactly, right.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
When I share, I know no other person is going to have
my exact story.
The reason I share is forothers to find in their lives
what caused them to slowly moveout of who they are and try to
control parts of their lifebecause of the overwhelming
emotions.
So what led me?
(07:37):
Personally, when I look back,there was a bunch of changes in
my life.
It was around fifth, sixthgrade.
I had older sisters that gotmarried that year.
It was a change in the schoolfrom one teacher to six teachers
, which meant that instead ofhaving a relationship with the
teacher, it was about my gradeon the paper.
(07:58):
There was a thing that happenedto me.
I don't share what exactly itwas, but something happened at
that age that caused me a lot ofshame and when I shared this
with my class I rememberedafterwards.
So I came back the next day andI told them I said many times
something shameful could happento us or we do something
(08:21):
shameful, so it works either way, but everyone's going to go
through stuff that they madewrong decisions or something
happened to them that makes themfeel ashamed.
Either way, it doesn't reallymatter what it is, and this
accumulation of thisshamefulness is too much for us.
We don't know how to deal withit.
(08:41):
We weren't given tools to dealwith it, and so we try to become
something else.
We weren't given tools to dealwith it, and so we try to become
something else.
We lock that part down and wetry to control things.
So for me, it was thatparticular incident, together
with not having support in mylife, that I went to a clothing
store to buy uniforms and theperson in the store kept
(09:02):
bringing me the next size up.
So in my mind, the storystarted in the uniform store,
but looking back, it reallystarted from all these changes
in my life, and every time theybrought me the next size, the
waist stayed the same, but theskirt got longer, which they
never changed.
They still do that, I'm like atleast make it elastic.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Jewish stores are not .
I don't know who designs Jewishclothing, but it's not designed
for healthy children like.
It's just not designed in a waythat actually makes any sense.
So the kid just looks slumpierand schleppier and the waist is
not there if they're a littlebit bigger, like waist.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That's it.
I like it gets long and thin.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And women's clothing as well.
It's happy, right, like it juststretches out like the only
thing that happens that you'reallowed to do in the from stores
Laffy, taffy out, that's it.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
My youngest are twins , so post having them, I went to
the Jewish clothing store threemonths after.
I felt like I was almost backto my size, couldn't find a
thing.
Everything was long and thinand I was like now I really
understand why people can't findclothing in the Jewish stores
Like you go to any other store.
There's elastic, there's, youknow, you can put a belt to it,
you know something, whatever,anyway.
So I go to the clothing storeand my sister was with me.
(10:26):
They keep bringing me the nextsize and it's not closing and I
ended up just buying like abiggish kind of skirt but it
still wasn't comfortable and Idecided I must need to lose
weight.
That must be why I can't evenfit into the normal clothing
size.
I must need to lose weight.
So I started being a very gooddieter or what I thought.
I didn't consult with anyonebut I got so many compliments.
(10:49):
This is like development stage.
You know when you're thatawkward nine, 10, 11 year old,
you know.
And then suddenly I'm just likelanky, very thin, 12 year old,
so like it looked good.
But afterwards when I went toschool for nutrition and
dietetics, I'll get to that soon.
We learned that pre puberty,that age nine, 10 and 11, you
(11:12):
were supposed to gain weight.
You're supposed to.
Your hormones need the extrafat and in my family it was a
source of shame because we allgained that weight from nine to
12.
We all mature pretty young,whereas friends of mine, maybe
we're more like 1617.
I was at 12.
And most of my family was likethat.
Like the whole family wouldcomment oh yeah, you're gaining
(11:34):
that nine year old weight, likeyou know.
And so I was suddenly thin andI felt very proud of myself and
I got so many nice complimentsand all was great.
And then it became not so great.
Within like a year or two myparents began to like comment no
, no, no, you need to eat more,you're not eating enough.
I had stopped getting myperiods and I was insistent that
(12:00):
I was fine because my bodyweight was fine.
Again, when I went to schoolfor nutrition and dietetics,
they changed the criteria foranorexia and eating disorders.
You could be overweight andanorexic, does not matter.
But in my mind I was very wellversed in the nutrition
magazines.
I was in the right BMI, I wasfine and I didn't see a problem
(12:22):
with what I was doing.
Yeah, so that's pretty muchwhat led to the eating disorder.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I want to help our listeners focus on three points
.
The first point was how youngyou were, where this started.
You would speak about being infifth and sixth grade.
So, just for context, that'saround 11 years old, 1011 years
old.
That's a very young child, andI do think that eating disorders
can start at that age, and I'veactually seen it start younger
(12:49):
as well.
So, just in case you think it'sonly people who are 16, 17, who
are having these type of youknow challenges, know that it
can start at a younger age.
The second thing I want topoint out is that you spoke
about control.
I was hoping you would talkabout control a little bit,
which you did, that this gaveyou a sense of control when life
became chaotic and life becameoverwhelming.
You controlling your foodhelped you get a sense of
(13:12):
control, and I think that thisis a big part of why a lot of
young women fall into thispattern, which is they're just
feeling out of control forwhatever reason whether it was a
trauma, whether life becamechaotic.
There was a big move.
You know, they just you know,maybe their parents are
overbearing, whatever it isthose things can then lead
someone to say, you know, I needto have a sense of control.
(13:33):
Maybe food is something that Icould control and that does not
just work into controlling howlittle I eat, but actually maybe
even controlling how much I getto eat.
Right, so it can go in eitherdirection.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
On, that point of control.
You're just, as you're sayingthat you're reminding me.
I don't know if you've everread the Choice, yes, Okay, so
she has this point.
She says, like go back in yourmind to when your childhood had
ended and you know youradulthood started.
When did your innocence end?
(14:04):
And I think maybe this is thespace where we get into that
space of control, because wedon't know what to do with it.
When that innocence changes andsuddenly you have a lot to deal
with everyone.
Most people will choose someway of trying to control their
life and for some people toeating disorder.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Other people it's going to be something else right
and that's a very importantthing for us to start noticing.
And, you know, at a certain age, our kids do need to, you know,
be able to control parts oftheir lives and feel like a
sense of control and ownership.
And the third point I want tobring to you is that you
actually mentioned a very goodpoint and I mentioned this when
I do puberty talks which is thatit is normal and healthy to
(14:43):
gain weight, and I actually saya number about 20 pounds.
So, on a little kid who'shitting puberty, 20 pounds can
feel like a lot.
That's a big jump, but it'sabsolutely necessary to have,
like you were mentioning, thosefat stores that you then have a
healthy reproductive andadolescence growth, and that's
very, very important.
(15:03):
So I want parents who arelistening who might be looking
at someone who is a preteen orin their early teenage years and
they're like, oh my gosh, theygained so much weight.
You don't have to say anything,just wait a minute.
They're going to do what theyneed to do.
Hashem created our bodies thatwe do, as women need fat stores.
Our breasts are fat, our hipsare fat, our bottom has to be a
(15:23):
little bit more round, ourstomachs have to be.
These are healthy things.
This is how we support healthygrowth and development.
It's exactly how our bodies aresupposed to look hormones rely
on fat 100%.
Yes, that's really, really,really important for us to
understand.
So, if you don't mind me askingMiriam and totally gloss over
this, if it's something that'suncomfortable, what type of
(15:47):
eating disorder did you have andwhat was it like living with an
eating disorder?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Okay.
So, like I mentioned before,when I went to school they told
me the criteria changed.
So if I were to go back, Inever got diagnosed.
So I also, like when I share it, I say I had this ordered
eating because I never gotdiagnosed with it.
Also, like when I share it, Isay I had this ordered eating
because I never got diagnosedwith it.
But if I look back as adietitian now, it was a
nutritionist.
I can't call myself a dietitian.
(16:13):
That's another thing.
It was anorexia, because it waslimiting food intake and
control on food.
There's bulimia, which is morelike trying to numb feelings by
just ingesting a lot of food.
So it wasn't that.
You know.
That's pretty much what I sumup that it was.
So I was a pretty muchhappy-go-lucky child, very much
(16:36):
giggly all the time.
My neighbors used to love tomake me laugh and whatever.
And around sixth grade, whenthis started, a classmate
commented to me how, like Miriam, what happened to you?
Like that's all she said.
What happened to you?
And that was the first moment Irealized that I wasn't acting
the same, or you know, I becamea lot more serious.
(16:57):
My grades went from pretty muchan, a student, to like C's or
lower.
I had no involvement in class.
I don't know if that had to dowith one teacher and six
teachers or with the eatingdisorder I still don't know but
I think a lot had to do withbeing not fully present in the
classroom.
I was so much in my head tryingto control and think how many
(17:19):
calories to get through the dayand how little could I eat.
But how much do I need to haveenough energy to get through the
day and how little could I eat,but how much do I need to have
enough energy to get through theday.
Like that was my constantcalculation in my mind.
When I went to camp I couldn'tsleep at night.
I had insomnia, I think becausethe lack of calories together
with I just didn't have thehormone balance to be able to
(17:43):
relax enough.
I didn't have serotonin.
There wasn't any flation in meto fall asleep.
Ball games I would get dizzyafter.
If I went swimming I would feelso faint I would try to sneak
into the nurse's office andweigh myself.
Going to camp was so scary forme because at home I had a scale
.
I knew what I was, in camp Ididn't.
(18:10):
So I would try to sneak intothe nurse's office to weigh
myself, um, but that wasn'tallowed.
So I would like go before hoursand try to weigh myself.
So, even more.
So I would limit even more andtry to exercise more, because I
had no idea what, what weight Iwas like if I had any control.
Uh, that was yeah, that'spretty much.
It like going from from themore easy personality to very
tense and the the uninvolvementin my life, like hanging out
(18:31):
with friends, was non-existent,because you're usually chatting
over food and nosh.
I would like try to go to sleepin camp and everyone would be
up for bringing and partying andI would just be like, just help
me fall asleep, asham, becausejust numbness, complete numbness
and no joy.
There wasn't a joy, it was justsurvive, to get to the next day
, to get to the next day.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Just uncovering our biases a little bit, as I'm
listening to you, I think mostpeople listening would be like,
oh, if I was a camp nurse and akid snuck in to use the scale,
I'd be like, ha ha, teenagerright.
Like they're so obsessed withtheir body, like I don't even
think that.
Like to me as someone who'ssuper aware.
I don't know if you had donethat once and I had caught you
(19:14):
once, but I have been like, oh,we have a serious problem.
And then even if I would havesaid, you know, we have a
serious problem to someone, Ithink everyone would laugh like,
oh, it's just teens, you know,it's just teens.
So I think just uncovering ourbiases a little bit, to thinking
about how societally obsessedwe are with our weight, that
(19:36):
we're able to just excuse thistype of behavior, whether we're
educated or whether we're not,is something that's very
important and that comes from Imean it's.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
it's even promoted.
If you read a health magazine,they say, like you know, monitor
your weight, have a scale inyour house.
It seems to be a healthy thing.
That's what it's been marketedas A hundred percent and it's
really not.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
No, it's really, really not.
And I actually I was at thedoctor's office and they had
asked one of my kids to go onthe scale and I said, why do you
need this?
Kids like we're not here forantibiotics, we're not here for
a well visit, why do you needtheir weight?
And they're like it's standardprocedure.
I'm like, well, it shouldn't bestandard procedure, what do?
you need to wait for and she waslike it's just standard.
I'm like, okay, so you couldwrite down that.
The mother was difficult.
(20:17):
She refused go you.
I'm like no problem.
My kid was like my, maybe weshould have just let it go.
I'm'm like maybe we should have, but you don't actually need it
and I actually spoke to adifferent provider in that
office and I was like maybe youshould talk.
I was like I've tried, this isjust how they are.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
There's actually such a thing called a blind scale,
where so I tell my kids to turnaround.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I tell my kids, like, when we go on the scale, we
face the other direction.
If well, we face the otherdirection.
If the provider feels they needto know it for a sense of
control, by the way, that's allit is then they can have it, but
it means nothing to you Ifyou're exercising well, you're
eating well, you're taking careof yourself, making sure you
feel you know, supported, andwhat is the number telling you
(21:00):
the size of your shirt?
Great, you know the size ofyour shirt already, you're okay.
Yeah, so I think that, just likechanging, the culture comes
from so many different placesand we're not in control over
all of them all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But your little impact in the doctor's office
could help change things.
I know it's like a littlecomment, but if every parent
came in like that, they wouldn'thave it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, they wouldn't, but honestly like I don't think
that every parent comes in likethat.
Exactly.
But we should.
There's no, like a little kid.
We need to know their weight,we need to know they're gaining,
we need to know they're growing.
If a child comes in and there'sweight based antibiotics, we
need to know their weight.
But a child who's coming inbecause their arm hurts, like
why are we taking away?
(21:40):
What does that have to do withanything?
And she was here a month ago.
You know her weight.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I mean even pregnant woman.
You know they monitor theweight like crazy.
Why?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
What's that?
They monitor the weight whenthere's a big jump, okay, but
here's the difference.
So a lot of midwife practicesand this is totally we've gone
off on a tangent, but this isimportant to talk about our
biases and the healthcare system.
If there's a large jump, then Iwould be worried about certain
health conditions that areassociated with a large jump,
but I would also see that ifyou're seeing a provider
continuously, I would still seethat big jump.
(22:16):
But a lot of midwife practices.
What they've done now is,instead of you coming in and
getting weighed by someone else,is that you have ownership over
the weight, so you can chooseto weigh yourself in the
bathroom or you can choose todefer it, and that would be a
choice.
And again, I think a lot ofthis has to do with a whole
nother discussion, which isgiving patients autonomy over
(22:37):
their care rather than givingthe providers an illusion of
control which we really don'thave control over, which is a
whole nother discussion.
But, again, we're going back tothis concept of control, which
is the weight is giving someonea sense of control, and in this
case, it's actually not you,it's the provider, exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I had experiences.
Post everything, you know,weight to me.
I don't, I don't own a scale, Idon't monitor my food, I don't
have anxiety now and whatever,but post everything.
When I was pregnant with mytwins.
Now the doctor would weigh meevery week and even post that.
Post everything I've beenthrough and and learning and you
(23:21):
know, and turning everythingaround.
When he gave me a lecturebetween two visits.
I saw him between two and hegave me such a lecture that if I
gained too much weight I won'tbe able to get the babies out.
I was set into such a tizzy andit didn't make any logical
sense Because, like if I thoughtabout even to him, it didn't
(23:43):
make any logical sense why he'sgiving me this, this rundown.
If you looked at theaccumulation of the months that
I was nauseous for the firstfive months, then of course
there's like a jump from five tosix because I, you know, lost
weight in the beginning.
Whatever it was, even if helogically looked at it better,
he would see that it made sensewith all logical.
(24:07):
My whole body went into fightor flight because it's a lot.
You want to protect your babies, you want to not have a
unnatural birth.
You know, like you don't wantto be cut open or whatever.
And he's given me this wholelecture and I had to re come
back into myself and study again.
And this was another pregnancy.
I met someone in the park andshe's telling me her doctor
asked her what she's eatingevery day.
A very, very tiny woman, a tiny, tiny woman.
(24:29):
And the doctor's lecturing herthat she's eating too much
avocado and salad for lunch.
She should cut it back.
And she's asking me what to doBecause she's like if I don't
have a good lunch, then I'm likenoshing on dried mango at night
.
She's like I'm a very healthyeater but I just not enough food
for me.
So she's like I like havinglike a big salad of like eggs
(24:50):
and avocado and whatever.
And if I don't have that, whenI listen to him and cut it back,
I'm like noshing on dried mangoat night.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And I'm like it's important to also note that your
OBGYN is not a nutritionist andyour OBGYN is not trained to
actually give you that advice.
And the advice that is givenabout how much weight to gain is
has not been updated in a superduper long time.
And just because someone isoverweight, that does not mean
that they're going to have alarge baby.
(25:20):
If someone has gestationaldiabetes, there's a correlation
there, but if somebody is small,they can have a large baby.
If somebody is large, they canhave a small baby.
That is not a thing.
Miriam, getting back to yourjourney and I think we've moved
forward to how certain thingsare triggering to get you back
to this Exactly A young personstruggling, and I think that
(25:42):
this was a very important thingfor people to hear what helped
you move out of this space ofdisordered eating.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So there was like a bit of a shock that got me out
of it.
My brother-in-law was learningto be a PA and he was learning
about eating disorders.
At that point it was around age15.
And he and my sister sat medown and they said listen, I
know you think you're dietinghealthy, but you're not getting
your periods.
Your hair is falling out,you're feeling numb, whatever,
like all the symptoms I had.
You, you're probably anorexic.
If you don't start eating again, you might not never have kids,
(26:18):
you're going to have healthissues, you might die.
And for me it was enough of ascare, because I don't think I
ever moved into that space of.
I think there's like a certainpoint of no going back sometimes
with the eating disorder wherethe brain, even if someone
scares the life out of them,it's not going to help.
But for me that scare wasenough to make me eat again.
(26:42):
It didn't heal my relationshipwith food, but I really wanted
to have a large family and Iwanted to get married one day
and I didn't want to die.
So I started eating again, butI wasn't eating.
It wasn't like I had a healthyrelationship with food.
So I decided you know what I'mgoing to eat like whole grains
and sugar.
So I guess it moved more intoorthorexia.
(27:04):
When I like a password, movemore into that and which you
know like when I was in school.
Everyone that's there prettymuch has gone through multiple
different kinds of eatingdisorders and most people yet it
would move from bulimia toanorexia, to orthorexia.
And there's even today's mostnutritionists.
A lot of them are orthorexicunless they've taught themselves
(27:27):
and grown and whatever.
But many adults, the health,health conscious that you think,
are so healthy.
It's more orthorexia, which isa very big emphasis on healthy
eating, and they're scared, it'sa huge fear of eating anything
out of that space, anythingcontaminated or whatever you
want to say.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'm really glad you brought up orthorexia, because I
did it and then you did it aswell, and I was waiting for an
opportunity to talk about this.
We use the word healthy eating,and I think that this is what
you're talking about, which,again, I'm just going to point
out.
This is like a bias that wehave that certain foods are
healthy and certain foods areunhealthy, which is kind of what
that OB did, which is like oh,avocados are in the middle, like
(28:08):
, don't eat avocados.
But it's not just about goodfoods and bad foods, healthy
foods and unhealthy foods, andit's a much more nuanced
discussion, and food serves alot of purposes other than just
getting your nutrients in.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Exactly Like I'll fast forward to the part of
really healing from the eatingdisorder, so moved into
orthorexia.
And then, after I graduatedfrom school and went to seminary
, I came back home and decidedto study to be a dietitian, to
do the full on.
You know, college learn I'mgoing to learn everything about
the body so that all themagazines have no control over
(28:44):
me, like I'll be smarter thanthem.
And I also was so curious whysome people are underweight,
some overweight.
I wanted to be free.
I didn't want food to have anycontrol over me, I wanted to be
smarter than it.
And it really did do that forme going to college to learn
about it.
Because when I learned thescience behind food and
(29:07):
digestion, it lost all its holdon me.
The teachers that I had werevery much into like everything
in moderation.
We had one really sweet teacherwho would be like, if you're
gonna eat chocolate chip cookiesand make it with butter and
white flour, you know, and makeit with butter and white flour,
you know.
And that was the mentality thatI got from school and when I
(29:29):
left school, food had no controlover me.
By the time I was finished itwas like, you know, a cookie and
a piece of chicken.
Whatever my body needs rightnow is what's healthy for me,
like that's what it became, andthat's when I started working in
a doctor's office, because Ididn't end up getting my In
(29:50):
order to call myself a dietitian.
I need my internship, and Iended up pregnant with my second
child at the time and didn't doit.
But I had a job waiting for meat my brother-in-law's office
the same one who told me thatconversation.
He hired me as a nutritionistin his office and so I started
working there and within a fewweeks I noticed that it didn't
(30:11):
matter if I gave a client thebest nutrition plan you know,
like eat one piece of toast andone egg and what.
You know this that that which Iwasn't doing myself because I
had completely no hold on me,but people were coming to lose
weight, like that's why theycame to the doctor.
So I, you know, as anutritionist, was giving them
healthy eating plan.
(30:31):
It seemed amazing to them.
They were so on board andwithin three weeks they were
like yeah, I don't know, I'mfollowing it and nothing's.
I'm not losing weight anymore,or I can't do it anymore.
I want to go back to eating mykakash cake, you know.
And around that time I had readin, I think, was the Ami
(30:52):
magazine about intuitive eatingand right away clicked that
that's what I really was doingin my own life.
And why was I handing thepatients these nutrition plans
when I was doing intuitiveeating?
So I learned the principles andI started teaching that, as
they still requested theireating plan, but I tried to
(31:13):
stick in.
You know what's here,emotionally for you that is
keeping you back from fromfollowing healthy eating, cause
you know what's healthy betterthan I do.
Everyone knows what's healthy.
They could give me a wholelecture on.
You know the best foods to eat,but why are they not doing it?
And here's where I startedteaching them that naturally, a
(31:34):
baby doesn't eat past fullness.
You naturally know when to stopeating.
You naturally know not to eattoo much sugar.
Your body doesn't feel good.
What happens is, over time,these other voices come in no,
you're eating too much, no,you're eating too little.
And you stop listening to yourinternal voices.
And now it's this is healthy,so eat the whole thing.
(31:57):
You know like salad is healthy,so just keep eating it.
Chicken is healthy, so keepeating it.
Cookies are not healthy, so youdon't eat it and then you
gobble down in the closet.
At the end of the day it takesaway the whole enjoyment and the
whole way we manage foodnaturally within ourselves and
we think now we have no controlover eating and that we need a
(32:17):
meal plan.
That's what we think, butreally we each are built
differently, just like our shoesizes are different, and some
people are heavy and some peopleare thin, and it doesn't matter
how healthy they're going toeat, what kind of foods are
eating, it does not matter.
Your body naturally goes to theweight it needs to go for the
size you need to be, for yourmission in life.
It doesn't matter Like.
(32:39):
That's your unique mission andand even the whole, you know
you'll you'll read these healthmagazines and it'll be like you
know, be in your right BMI andeat healthy avocados and eat
pomegranates today and thistomorrow, whatever it is.
Even that your health andeverything is in control of
(32:59):
Hashem.
There are people that are sohealthy that have a heart attack
and there are people that areso unhealthy, are so healthy
that have a heart attack, andthere are people that are so
unhealthy and I'm not saying toeat burgers and fries and
whatever, but naturally we don'twant that.
If we're able to block out allthose voices and, okay, a huge
aspect here is emotions as well,which I'll get to then we
naturally could get there.
(33:20):
The only principle that's notin the 10 principles of
intuitive eating is emotionmanagement, and that's where,
for me, that's not in the 10principles of intuitive eating
is emotion management, andthat's where, for me, that's
what needs the most help.
When I was in school, one ofour teachers was very into that.
Really we need psychologydegrees, not nutrition degrees.
He's like you're going to comeinto a patient and they want to
(33:41):
do everything right and theycan't, and you have to help them
.
Want to do everything right andthey can't, and you have to
help them on block.
What's?
What's going on here?
Why is the food their friend?
Why is stress you know thestress eating or not eating
right?
Why are they not eating?
Because they're stressed?
Or why are they eating too muchbecause they're stressed?
What emotion is here that we'reuncomfortable with, that we're
not listening to, either to eator not to eat.
(34:03):
So that's really, at the end ofthe day, what it is.
So I, like I almost have, likeI have no desire to be a
nutritionist.
I can't do it anymore, like Icould technically have a job in
a doctor's office working asthat.
I have no desire to do itBecause I'm like that's not what
the point is.
The point is people willnaturally eat what they need to
(34:23):
eat, but what's going on inside?
That's what we have to work on.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So if you're listening to Miriam and you're
thinking, oh, but BMI?
My doctor always checks my BMII just want to clear up
something for you BMI wasinvented in the 1830s by someone
who was not a medicalprofessional.
He was an astronomer and amathematician and a statistician
.
The fact that in 2024, theentire medical community will
(34:52):
base their recommendations onBMI still does not make sense.
Like Miriam said, hashemcreated all of us with different
bodies, different eye colors,different hair colors, different
body shapes, different heights.
We were not created on afactory.
We are not all supposed to lookthe same.
We are not all supposed to, youknow, have the same fit into
the same size.
(35:12):
That's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Actually on the BMI, because you asked me earlier
what got me, what happened.
I told you about the uniformstore.
But I'm remembering now, asyou're saying, I remember my
mother had maybe goodhousekeeping or whatever it was.
As you're saying, I remember mymother had maybe good
housekeeping or whatever it was,and there was a BMI chart and I
look at it and I was too muchon the BMI and I was like no way
, this is so mortifying.
(35:34):
I'm like I'm not the size I'msupposed to be, I'm over my
weight.
That was also a huge fact thatI'm remembering now and like, oh
, I'm not who I'm supposed to be.
I have to work on myself.
I can't listen to my own body.
So where did Hasidus come intothis discussion?
Okay, so now, post working atthat doctor's office, post
(35:56):
figuring out about intuitiveeating.
Now I moved to Pomona because Iwas living in Brooklyn, I was
finishing my degree, just had myfirst two kids, and then we
moved to Pomona and life isbeautiful and we moved in the
spring.
I'm pregnant, I have two kids.
I had a hard time having myfirst kid.
So there's a lot of alwayswanting something, always
(36:18):
thinking you know, when I havethat I'll feel settled when I
have that.
So there was a wait for myfirst kid.
Then now we were in a house,we're settled right, and winter
came and I'm pregnant with mythird child and the schools
where you know where I live andthat year that I moved would
close down for a littlesprinkling of snow.
(36:40):
It felt like every day schoolwas closed and my kids, then two
and one, were home and I waspregnant with my third child.
So there was no way of makingmyself busy and distracted
because I had these two kids.
It wasn't like I could evenread a book or watch something
(37:01):
or go shopping.
I had these two kids with meand I'm pregnant with a third
child, which makes me feelunwell.
So I'm not.
I'm not either likereorganizing my house or
reorganizing the toys.
I'm literally sitting therewith two kids, one who didn't
stop crying and one who was, hada lot of energy and was jumping
all around.
And suddenly I broke inside andI couldn't stop crying and my
(37:26):
life kind of continued.
I still, you know, when schooldid happen.
I just still drove them toschool, I still went shopping,
still had guests for Shabbos,but all the in-betweens I would
just cry and cry and after a fewweeks of doing this, I told my
husband I needed help.
Then I went to see apsychologist and as I was
sitting there at first, shestarts saying you know what do
(37:48):
you do?
And she's like let's try tofind you a job, whatever.
I was like no, no, no, you'renot getting it.
Like no, my life is very busy.
I don't want a job right now.
I'm just.
I felt like what's the point ofliving?
That was in the sense of likeI'm going to raise these kids
and then they're going to do thesame thing.
They didn't feel like a pointof it, just felt so chaotic and
(38:12):
I felt so overwhelmed with myown emotions and with the kids
emotions and with everythingthat I felt like why am I going
to do this again?
So the kids do the same thingfor their kids?
There wasn't like anything tohold on to and I was like no, no
, no, it's not that.
So the kids do the same thingfor their kids.
There wasn't like anything tohold on to and I was like no, no
, no, it's not that.
And then I opened up about thisshameful thing that happened to
me as a child.
I knew I wanted to get it offmy chest, which is why I asked
(38:35):
my husband to book me with thetherapist.
I didn't tell him why at thetime, but I asked him to book me
because I wanted to get thisoff my chest and I shared it
with the therapist and my wholebody shook there.
There was just like a tremblingand everything came out and she
(38:57):
just asked questions to getmore and more out and I didn't
even know I had so much insideLike I thought it was just.
You know, like you have like ablip on your screen.
You know like no, it was a lotcoming out and as I maybe went
for two or three like this, gotit all out.
And she helped me shift from achildlike understanding to an
adult-like understanding becauseas a child I mean, I thought
(39:21):
and I think most children thinkthis is like you have control
over your life.
If, whether you did a mitzvahor an aveira, you have control,
you're gonna choose.
And I think most children thinkthis is like you have control
over your life and whether youdid a mitzvah or an aveira, you
have control.
You're going to choose.
And I think we're brought up tobelieve that as well.
You're punished if you do notgood and you're rewarded if you
do good.
So in my mind, because somethingshameful happened, it was my
fault, something majorlyhappened and I'm like I have to
(39:42):
make up for this my whole life.
I can't fully live my lifebecause I have to like kind of
make up for it.
And she helped me see, like youwere a child.
Children make mistakes.
Adult make mistakes.
We're human.
Humans make mistakes.
She's like imagine you knowsomeone in your life that age.
What would you think of them ifthat thing happened?
And I was like I would feel sobad, I wouldn't think anything
(40:04):
bad of them.
That thing happened and I waslike I would feel so bad, I
wouldn't think anything bad ofthem.
You know like so help me shiftfrom the childlike understanding
that I brought into myadulthood because I didn't
process it, to going back tobeing the adult in the situation
and seeing it from the adultperspective.
And when that was cleared forme, suddenly I was like light
and flying and full of love andfull of light.
(40:27):
And here's where I began tolearn Hasidus from people who I
connected with Rabbi SimonJacobson, rabbi YY, rabbi Sheis
Tal.
Suddenly they were talkingabout all my emotions that were
going on within me because I hadsort of locked everything away.
Because of that, it just kindof like everything morphed
together, you know one bigclosed lid on a container with
(40:50):
all my emotions, and now that itwas open I was like wow, oh, my
goodness it said that and I Imean I'm, oh my goodness it said
that in time I was like overthe moon and everything was
talking to me.
It was, I was so alive and Ihad my third child.
At that point and after I hadhim which, by the way, it was my
(41:10):
first child that I felt Like wehad a conversation going
between the two of us.
I just knew what he needed.
You know, we felt each other,whereas other kids it was like,
you know, have your baby, takecare of them, feed the bottle.
I was a good mother, like Itook care of them, but it wasn't
like this enjoyment and lovefor the whole process.
(41:31):
So after I had my third child,I was in the car one day and
there was a MordechaiBen-David's Yiddish song.
And I was in the car one dayand I was, there was a Mordechai
Ben David's Yiddish song and inmy mind I had this whole dance
going on and I always did this,even over the years.
Whenever music plays,Especially piano music, my mind
makes a dance for it or myfingers start dancing to it, and
(41:53):
so I'm like I want to get homeand dance.
And as I was dancing, I put onthat song.
I realized that my phone has aselfie camera.
Now I, you know, it was like anew idea at the time I turned my
phone around and I put it onthe fireplace and I recorded me
dancing and when I watched it Iwas like you look as free as you
(42:13):
feel.
You know it's one thing.
Like you know, you feel elegant, but then you look at yourself
and you really, you know, hotfloppy and whatever.
No, it really gave that messageof freedom, of letting go and
allowing things to go, to flowand emotions to go.
So I shared it with my mother,my mother in law a little bit.
My husband no one reallyunderstood what I was doing a
little bit.
(42:33):
My husband no one reallyunderstood what I was doing.
They didn't get what.
It was a friend, but here andthere, people got what I was
doing and at the time, a friendwho saw it.
She's like Miriam, go onInstagram.
It was a new thing at the timeGo on Instagram because you
could just have females followyou and you could have a page.
You share your dances, youshare what's going on and that's
(42:57):
when I started Freedom Dancerand I would share the Hasidus.
I learned that connected to memy emotions and little clips of
me dancing.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
As I'm listening to you, miriam, I'm thinking about
this big concept of Hasidim wereknown as the Freilicher, the
happy people, and it's sointeresting that when you found
your joy, you found chassidus,and in that there was, like this
intertwining of my joy, mychassidus, my dance, my
connection to hashem, like allthese things.
(43:27):
It was very interesting thatthat's where you found your
connection.
The other thing I wanted tobring up, which is so important
and you kind of said this in alot more words, but I want to
crystallize this thought forpeople who are listening is that
guilt is not a Jewish concept.
I don't care how much Jewishcomedians will be like my Jewish
mother guilts me, Guess what?
(43:47):
Nowhere in Tyra is guiltconducive to growth.
Nowhere in Tyra is that aconcept that, as Jews, we're
supposed to connect to.
So if you are feeling, you know, a sense of remorse, that's a
healthy thing, or a sense ofownership, or you know, those
things are great.
That's exactly what we want totalk about.
But guilt is not a Jewishconcept and I will tell you that
(44:09):
, even as someone who teacheskalas who are struggling, who
may be, you know, or women whoare struggling in the Yiddish,
kind of like yeah, but I did,and I'm like, okay, and like and
like, like Tyra's not here, forlike we don't do confessionals
and we don't sit in our guiltand we don't flog ourselves, and
like that's not a thing.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
That was, I think, one of the first concepts that I
connected to with Rabbi SimaJacobson.
He was talking about exactlythat.
He's like guilt is nowhere inthe Torah.
There's nowhere in the Torahfor guilt.
Throw it out the window.
And I think today's Yitzhaharayou know, like every generation,
has our Yitzhaharas.
Our generation, as the Rebbehas said, is that we don't feel
(44:50):
worthy.
That's our Yitzhahara.
And a big, huge factor of thatis guilt.
And as you so clearly seewithin my own story that it's so
related how much alive we feelwith Tyra that it's not helpful
at all.
It's the opposite the moreguilt, the less you'll feel
connected.
That's pretty much the sum.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I love that.
Is there another specificconcept that you make sure to
bring across to your listenersor to your workshop attendance
or through your Instagram,through the work that you're
doing?
Is there another Hasidicconcept that you are like?
Hold on to this concept,Because this is almost like a
mantra.
This is almost something thatcan really shift and create a
paradigm shift in how we thinkof ourselves, our world, our
connection to Hashem.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
So I think what Rabbi Simon Jacobson introduced me to
was this concept that when wefeel safe and loved and secure
because he has you like there'sa whole imagery of like being in
the womb and protected andloved we automatically make
better decisions.
Right, we're not in our fightor flight state.
We naturally like Hasidus tellstells us is that we naturally
(45:58):
are good and so if we'renaturally good, then we're not
trying to protect ourselves fromdoing bad, we're trying to get
ourselves back to a safe spaceto be good we're because we're
naturally good.
So going back to like hashem'sarms, like the womb that we were
sat in exactly, and and what Istarted out when I Freedom
(46:19):
Dancer was about letting go andletting Hashem.
Letting go of control, becausethat's what's blocking us from
accessing our emotions, whichare really here to lead us to
clear them up so that we couldhave that space that Hashem
wants to be within us.
This is a huge concept inHasidus that the students, when
I give this over, it's like amind changer.
(46:41):
The world was created unified.
The reason for separation is sowe can have a relationship with
Hashem.
So any sort of guilt.
Hashem created you to mess up.
He wanted you to mess up tocreate coverings so that now you
could clear it and get close tohim and have a relationship,
(47:03):
because without that we woulddissolve into him.
Like that was the whole conceptof Moth and Torah that we
weren't separated enough fromhim, and that was it.
Boom, we went up to heaven.
So this whole concept ofcreating blockages within us and
then to clear them is supposedto happen.
That's the process, and so thishas come to really what it is,
(47:28):
and so the original let go andlet God.
This is really where it's at.
I don't know if I focus solelyon one thing.
I don't know if I focus solelyon one thing, but what I've seen
so clearly this year is thatI've begun to learn the last few
years of the Rebbe's life whenhe was with us, the Sikhas of
Tashin and Alfin and Baze.
Everything I've shared here isin those Sikhas and when I saw
(47:51):
it so clearly written out, theRebbe says about going out of
Mitzrayim.
What was going out of Mitzrayimand taking the treasures?
It's about?
You have all those blockageswithin you, right?
Mitzrayim is blockages and nowyou have to transform it to
treasures in order to go out.
You're not going out before youtransform them.
You got to transform them andnow you can't go out yourself.
(48:12):
You need to connect to Hashemto take you out.
Right?
Their cry, their big cry, andnow you go out and try him.
But how are you going to haveyour maten Torah?
What's your maten Torah?
Your personal Torah Is allthose things you've learned, all
those treasures.
You're going to process themand then you're going to have
your maten Torah.
You're going to receive yourown Torah because we're each
(48:33):
here, right 600,000 differentparts to reveal our part of the
torah.
So that's like really what I.
I don't think I focus on onething, but it's really very much
bringing in that the rabbitsays everything that I share in
such a beautiful way through thetorah, I love how like these
concepts that the world isconnecting to now in psychology
(48:56):
or therapy, or the work thatwe're doing.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
As you know, as a society as a whole, we've had
this.
We've had this for millennia.
This is not a new concept.
This is us connecting to theoriginal truth and the ultimate
truth, rather than the fragmentsof truth, and I think we didn't
necessarily have the Kalem toreceive them.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
There's a reason why it's being revealed more now,
why we're understanding it.
It was always there and that'sour job in torah is to connect
the dots, is to take theknowledge of the world and
realize we have more in thetorah.
We have the truth is in thetorah, but the things that the
world teaches us helps open ourminds to what it means, because
(49:37):
it's that the world teaches ushelps open our minds to what it
means, because it's they arehere to help us.
The world is here to help theyidden reveal the the full torah
.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
I love.
I love that concept ofeverything is here to serve the
purpose of godliness andgoodness.
Miriam, tell us a little bitabout your workshop.
Are you dancing with the peoplewho are participating?
Are you talking with them Like,what is the format of the work
that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (50:11):
So the format is sharing my story using the Revis
talks throughout, like bringingevery single part in as it
relates, while singing andshowing clips of different
dances I've done or differentspeakers that talk about that
relevant topic at the time.
So for high school students Itry to keep it to hour and for
women retreats it's more liketwo hours and I divide it into
(50:32):
two parts and I conclude it witha kumzitz.
You know the girls could get upand sing and the idea of it is
a modern day for bringing.
What if I bring in is is toheal ourselves, to connect us,
to connect us to Hasidus andTorah and to reveal our truth
(50:52):
and our Torah that's within us.
So I take the audience fromfrom what I told you, like
Yetzirah and Sarayim, until Madsand Torah, but depending on the
time of year it changesaccording to you know, like if
I'm talking Shavuot's time, it'sgoing to be that sequence, but
if I'm talking Sukkoth time orYitah's Kislev, I'll bring in
things that the Rebbe talksabout with Yitah's Kislev, which
(51:19):
will be more like concepts ofan olive being squeezed to get
out the oil.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I love that.
That sounds really, reallybeautiful and meaningful and I
think that it's absolutelybeneficial because you have all
this behind you in thestatements and that really holds
truth.
And then when people see thatit's something that's not
far-fetched and not somethingthat's abstract, it's something
that's real to you.
I think that authenticconnection is what really
(51:41):
touches people.
So do you have a last messagethat you want to leave our
listeners with?
Speaker 3 (51:47):
A last message.
I'll just leave with a littlethought that came to my mind
today.
I went away for the week withmy husband and we're in a
beautiful place, and yesterday Ifound it so hard to enjoy.
It was so hard.
It's a beautiful place, there'sno reason, absolutely no reason
, to not enjoy.
And I'm finding myself worryingabout the kids at home.
(52:10):
You know, is the pizza arrivein time?
The this, the that.
And I was like why can't I justlet go?
And this morning I did some yoga, I did some breath work, I
tried to work through everythingthat's going on and I realized
this little idea came to mindhow, imagine Gula happened today
?
Your body's not even ready.
(52:32):
You are ready, but are youreally ready?
Have you transformed all thoseblockages within you that you're
ready to receive so muchgoodness?
Because I'm sitting here, readyto receive so much goodness and
my body is resisting, itdoesn't want to enjoy, it still
wants to control in some way.
And that to me just kind ofbrings minuchah into my life.
(52:55):
When I understand theseunderstandings, like, oh, my
goodness, hashem, you wanted tojust tell me that message.
Thank you very much.
Now I can enjoy, you know.
So it was a very powerfulmoment.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
So, miriam, thank you so so much for joining us today
.
This was enlightening, this wasrelevant, this was real, and I
know I really enjoyed thisconversation, so I know that our
listeners will enjoy it as well, and so thank you so so much
for joining us.
I'm going to put Miriam'sinformation, her Instagram and
how to contact her for workshopsin the show notes.
(53:26):
I actually really do think thatthis is vital work for us to do
as moms on ourselves, as peoplewho have any standing in the
community, to really like lookat ourselves and unwrap our
connection to our bodies and oursouls and you know who we are
because we're changing aconversation for the next
generation of women, and that'sthat's tremendously powerful,
(53:48):
because we serve Hashem with ourmind, our bodies and our souls,
not just with learningAbsolutely so important.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
So, mary, thank you so much.
It was such an honor andpleasure to be here today and
connect so deeply with you.
I felt like you understood it,and that's what helps bring
everything out.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
And now we present to you a song by Miriam Raskin oh,
oh, oh oh oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
(54:28):
oh.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Ben Kodesh l'chol ani chai Im ha'emet shemesh
dolelepi, im elef hergilim imkol tzaleket.
With the truth that is hiddeninside me, With a thousand
habits, with every single wordthat I say, I want to re-examine
the words Between reality andZion.
(54:50):
Everything is back to me there,in the place with which I came.
There is no peace In theprocess.
It's hard and small, I'm notsure, shalom, and the journey is
a little bit of a pain for me.
(55:27):
I need to overcome it, overcomeit, overcome it, overcome it
(57:43):
no-transcript info atbodysoulscom.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Remember that's two S's.
If you have any feedback aboutthe work we're doing or if you
would like to connect, you canuse the same email.
I hope you have a wonderful,uplifting and amazing day.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.