September 21, 2023 • 31 mins
In a quiet Oklahoma town, A.J. Cantrell and his wife Patsy lived lives built on community and kindness, never expecting their paths to intersect with a dangerous man whose actions will disrupt their sense of peace forever. The Cantrells, beloved by their community, meet a violent end, leaving a hole in the heart of their close-knit town. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack delve deep into the tragedy, examining the chilling forensic details, the devastating impact on the community, and the 37-day manhunt that gripped the nation. Morgan leverages his expertise to discuss the mechanics of the lethal 410 shotgun used in the crime, while Mack provides harrowing firsthand accounts that highlight the complexities of the case. They also explore the psychology of violence, diving into the backstory and subsequent actions of the perpetrator, Scott Eizember. Alongside forensic science and investigative details, this episode serves as a tribute to the Cantrells, whose lives were cruelly taken.
Time codes:
00:00:20 — Joseph Scott Morgan sets the scene, introducing the heartbreaking case that took place in a small town in Oklahoma.
00:01:20 — Generosity and kindness in a church community are explored by Morgan and Mack.
00:03:00 — Joe Scott introduces the notion of a 'wolf in sheep's clothing,' personified by Scott Eizember, who arrives in town riding on a bicycle.
00:06:00 — A romantic entanglement between Eizember and Kathy Biggs becomes the focus as Dave Mack peels back another layer of the story.
00:07:13 — The importance of examining a subject's history in a homicide case is expounded upon by Joseph Scott Morgan. He asserts that such scrutiny can offer insights into potential violent outcomes.
00:09:11 — Dave Mack introduces Scott Eizember's horrifying acts of violence, setting the tone for the deeper forensic analysis to come.
00:10:27 — Dave Mack recalls the terrifying moments leading to the Cantrells' deaths. A 410 shotgun becomes the weapon of irreversible consequence. The deadly force of a 410 shotgun is anatomized by Joseph Scott Morgan.
00:16:14 — Joseph Scott Morgan demystifies gunpowder evidence on a body, helping listeners grasp the possible range from which the shotgun was fired. He talks about using a long-arm weapon as a bludgeon during the attack on Mr. Cantrell.
00:17:11 — Dave Mack educates listeners on the difference between slicing wounds and lacerations, the latter caused by blunt force trauma.
00:18:25 — Skull fractures and the force needed to inflict them are debated by Mack and Morgan.
At 00:24:12 — Dave Mack highlights how the Wright family initially welcomed Eizember before he unleashed his violent tendencies on the Cantrells, leading to a whirlpool of tragic events.
00:25:50 — Mack outlines Eizember's further attacks on a 16-year-old boy, a 63-year-old woman, and his ex-girlfriend, Katherine Smith, all of whom survive.
00:26:17 — Dave discusses the 37-day manhunt for Eizember, the kidnapping of Dr. and Mrs. Peebles, and how Eizember was finally apprehended.
00:29:10 — A chilling detail is revealed by Morgan—the unfired round in the weapon, suggesting that Eizember had potential for more destruction.
00:30:20 — The episode concludes with Joseph Scott Morgan confirming Scott Eizember's execution, signaling the end of a terrifying chapter for the community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Some of my fondest
memories from childhood were getting to meet the older members
of churches that I had attended. Young people always bored me.
(00:32):
I found that the older people to be quite interesting
and they had a lot of stories. Now, every church varies,
but most churches are rather generous. Many people you can
find in these churches will give you the shirt off
their back if you're kind of down and out, and
particularly if they perceive that you're doing good. I want
to talk to you about a case today where it
(00:54):
is the ultimate story involving a wolf in sheep's clothing,
a wolf that descends upon a tiny little Methodist church
in a tiny little town in Oklahoma and brings hell
with him. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave.
(01:18):
I don't know how you feel about it, but I
think that one of the characteristics of having a decent church.
No church is perfect, but having a decent church I
think goes to generosity. People can pontificate all they want
to and read scriptures and doing all that stuff, But
if people can be generous to other people, I think,
and kind and loving and not necessarily expecting anything in return.
(01:42):
I think that's a sign of maybe hell in certain ways.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself. That pretty much
tells you everything. That's a directive. When the Lord tells
you something, you better do it. And when he says
love your neighbor, you love your neighbor. And neighbor is
a place for people that you don't know well, people
you've just met. Being nice, being kind, thinking of the
other person. First. I agree that is the health of
(02:08):
a church. It's amazing to me in this day and
age where we have so many opportunities to share the
gospel worldwide using the Internet, and it's just an amazing
thing now. But Joe, ultimately, the church is not a building.
It's the people and how the people interact with one
another and new friends. And that's how a church actually
(02:31):
is judged, is how they behave in their community with people.
And that's why this story it centers around extending that
right handed fellowship to somebody you just met. In this
particular case, they met the devil on a bicycle.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I think it's one of those things that you never
know how evil is going to show up. And that's
what really struck me. One of the things that really
struck me about this case, and it sounds cheesy, but
it's like the devil road into town on a bicycle
is what this comes down to. He shows up. And
the thing about it is, when somebody's on a bicycle,
(03:06):
you envisioned some kind of you know, the Devil's going
to roll into town and he's going to be in
like some evil looking mac truck or large truck with
big tires on it, you know, and horns on the hood.
This guy, because he's not the devil, he's a man
that was very evil, shows up on a bicycle, and
it almost when you're looking from an investigative perspective and
(03:29):
you're looking through the eyes, you know, you're trying to
look at the eyes of the people that are impacted
by what this guy did. I don't know that there's
any more passive mode of transportation other than going out
for a stroll.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Perhaps it's the first mode of transportation we actually have.
And that's it's so funny. For most people, I include
myself in this one. Our bike is one of the
most important possessions we have as an early teenager, right
before you can get your freedom in a car, you know,
you get that first real freedom with a bike. Where
yous tell mom and dad, I'll be back in a
(04:02):
couple hours. I'm going to go here or there, back
in the day anyway. In this particular case, imagine it's
a Saturday afternoon, beautiful day, and he shows up peddling along,
and there's this church in the small town of Depew, Oklahoma,
and it's a late day in September. A man riding
a bicycle shows up and starts chatting with the guy
(04:26):
mowing the yard. He tells him the man I'm talking about,
Scott Isermer tells the man mowing the yard. Hey, I'm
bicycling across country to raise money for victims of nine
to eleven, which not that much of an uncommon thing.
Back in September two thousand and two, one year after
nine to eleven, a lot of people were raising money
for different funds related to the nine to eleven event.
(04:48):
I wouldn't raise the red flag over that if somebody
told me they were doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No, and listen, I'm not saying that evil doesn't happen
in small towns. This town roughly has a population somewhere
in between about four hundred and five hundred people. Everybody
knows one another here, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
All right, Well, the first person mister Isimer finds is
retired school teacher John Wright. Again, it's a Saturday, and
mister Wright's mowing the lawn at the Methodist church, getting
ready for services the next morning. Now, the community has described,
as you said, very small town. But you know where
everybody leaves the front door on lock, leaves keys in
(05:25):
the ignition. Just one of those pleasant places to live.
And Ismer was able, Scott Eismer was able to take
advantage of that. He tells mister Wright, Hey, I'm doing
this to Ray's money, you know, for nine to eleven,
which you mind if I pitched a tent on the
backyard here at the church overnight? And mister Wright says,
I'll go you on better, son, Why don't you come
(05:46):
on in and stay in the fellowship all night, sleeping
there in the air conditioning. It'll feel good. And that's
where they met. They being Scott Eimer and the entire
community of Depew, Oklahoma, met on a fall day in
two thousand and two. Now, mister Wright had a daughter
and her name was Kathy Biggs. Mister Scott Isimer became
(06:10):
romantically involved with Missus Biggs, and that romantic relationship led
for Missus Biggs to file for divorce and she and
Isenmer moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma and lived in an apartment there.
Now this is fairly quickly. Scott Eismer, obviously he's a player,
and he gets Catherine. They moved to Tulsa set up shop.
(06:34):
Less than a year, the romance faded and Catherine Biggs
moved back home to Depew, Oklahoma. And by the way,
when she got home, she filed for protective order against
Scott Isimer. So now we're a year past that encounter
on the bicycle at the church, that first man that
he met, mister Wright. He marries his daughter. A year
goes by, and now miss Wright has a protective order
(06:58):
against Isomer. Mister Ismer now shows up in Tulsa, and
or he spends time in the Tulsa County Jail for
violation of the protective order. So this is not a
man that has control of all of his emotional faculties.
Is that a good way to phrase that?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I think that it is. It's excellent anytime you
have an event that winds up in a homicide, and
in this case, a multiple homicide, you have to look
back into the history of a subject to see because
most of the time, and this is one of the
things that really frustrates the public, me included, when you
take the long view of it, you see it tracking forward,
(07:34):
you can see that this is not going to end
well because you've got preceding behaviors that come along with this,
violent behaviors that indicate that if this person is not
interdicted in some way, it's going to wind up in
a real tragedy, and certainly it did in this particular case.
(07:56):
As a matter of fact, this little town of lesson
five hundred people will be scarred forever endeavor. I don't
(08:22):
know why. I'm still amazed after all these years that
you see a circumstance where an individual is spinning out
of control and then all of a sudden it winds
up in a complete and total train wreck for everybody
that is involved around them. And it's interesting, isn't it.
It's like, in the news media and whatnot, the perpetrator
(08:45):
so many times Dave becomes the focus of the case
and you really begin to forget about the victims. In
a case, they become I guess, eccentric and the porpetrator
is concentric to the story. And that's a real shame.
And I think that that to a great degree after
(09:07):
these number of years, has happened in this particular case.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I agree with you. It does take you down a
path that you don't want to go. I want to
remember the people, the victims. But in this particular case,
we have one man, Scott Isimer, and several victims. So
let's start with Isimer. Quick review. Arrived on town on
a bicycle, meets a man at the Methodist church who
introduces him to his daughter. A romantic relationship blooms. The
(09:33):
pedals fall off the flower within a year, and Catherine
Smith now finds herself back in the town of Depew,
and she has a protection order against Scott Isimer. Isimer
wants to see her again, and so he makes a plan.
His plan is to stay across the street from her
(09:55):
house and surveill it and basically lie and wait. That's
a legal term, believe it or not, Lie and wait.
That's exactly what Scott Eismer was doing. He waited until
aj Cantrell and his wife Patsy left home. He sneaks
into their home and watches right across the street. His
ex girlfriend Catherine, her sixteen year old son, and by
(10:16):
the way, her sixty three year old mother all live
in this house. While Scott Eismer is watching the home,
the Cantrell's come back home earlier than he thought. He
thought he had more time, but they arrived back home.
This is where evil takes place and Scott Eismer takes
a four to ten shotgun he finds inside the Cantrell's
(10:36):
home and as they walk in the house, he shoots
and kills Patsy Cantrell with the shotgun and then uses
the shotgun to beat A. J. Cantrell to death. Joe,
they're seventy in their seventies.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, mister Crantreill was seventy six.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Day And I kind of imagined this that while Eismer
was able to get one shot off on missus Cantrell
on Patsy, that mister Cantrell was on the attack right
away and went right after. That's what I'm assuming here,
because Eisenber was not able to get a shot off
on mister Cantrell, but he beat him to death. With
(11:14):
a shotgun. So backing up, Joe, what kind of injuries
are we looking at from a four to ten shotgun?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, first off, four ten it's not uncommon, but it's
not when you think of shotguns, which are traditionally when
we think of the word caliber or the size, it's
the diameter of the bore. Shotguns are actually measured not
in caliber but in gauges. And so the lower the
number of the gauge, like you have traditionally like a
(11:42):
twenty gauge, it'll skip traditionally to sixteen gauge, and then
you have twelve gauge, which is very common, that's what
the police carry, is what the military carries, and then
you drop down to ten gauge. Actually, a ten gauge
is something in the past that's been a s I said,
with an elephant gun because it'll fire, it can fire
(12:03):
these very robust slugs, very lethal weapon. But then you
have this outlier as far as a shotgun, and it's
measured in zero point four to one zero, which is odd,
and it's not a gauge. It's actually a caliber and
it's the equivalent of a forty one caliber bullet. You've
heard dirty Harry for instance, forty four magnum most powerful
(12:25):
handgun in the world, will blow your head clean off.
But they have measured the bore of the four to
ten shotgun as point four to one, and it can
take slugs. It'll fire slugs, and it'll also fire shot
as well, like bird shot in this particular case, which
are tiny. If people have never seen bird shot, it
(12:46):
looks just like BB's now. The bbs that are contained
within each one of these rounds can come in a
variety of sizes, but suffice it to say there are
a large number of bebes contained in each shell. And
most of the time four to ten shotgun is utilized.
Some people will refer to it as a varmint weapon.
(13:07):
You can go, you can actually hunt rabbit with it.
People use it. Young young kids are given four to
ten shotguns because they don't have a lot of recoil
to them. They'll use them to hunt squirrel with small game.
People around farms use them to kill rats with for instance,
or snakes. Matter of fact, there's a famous weapon that's
(13:28):
referred to as a snake charmer. That's a single shot
four to ten shotgun, but it operates just like a
regular shotgun, and it's a smooth bore weapon. So when
this thing is fired, and in this case, when miss
Kentrell was actually shot, it launched a single volley of
(13:49):
bebi's into her. And the way we like in her
case in forensics, one of the ways that we would
get an idea as to how far away this weapon
was from her when it was discharged is that you
would measure the circumference or the distribution of the bebes
(14:09):
on the wound pattern as they entered the body. Most
of the time we think about dispersal of gunshot residue,
and you know, lots of times you'll get soot on wounds.
We talk about that, and the broader the expanse of
the soot, if you're talking about like a pistol shot,
gives you an approximation of distance. But with bird shot
(14:29):
like this, you get these all these little satellite wounds
that are just slightly bigger than say the head of
a pen, that penetrate the body. What's so devastating about
it is that you get multiple of these ripping through
the body. The wider the expanse, the further the distance
is the muzzle target distances when the thing is discharged,
(14:52):
and so each one of these little bebes tracks through
the body on its own individual little trajecttory as it
or wound track rather as it passes through the body,
and it can Let's say, if you're four feet away
from somebody and you aim center mass with this thing,
it'll initially come out as like a cylinder in the
(15:13):
air and travel and as it gets further and further
away from the end of the muzzle, that cylinder begins
to open up. And so now instead of having a
point four to one cylinder size that's going down range,
suddenly it has in caliber it's expanded out to maybe
point six to oh so you're talking about zero point
(15:36):
six oh inches, or it can expand out too point
seventy And so as in the further and further away,
the broader this expanse gets, you can have one of
these rounds that'll track and it'll clip, say the liver
and maybe the spleen, the pancreas, the bowel, and these
things are a nightmare for surgeons to have to work
(15:58):
on if the person served and they make it to
the hospital, because it's not like you just have a
single bullet hole that's entered the body and tracked through.
They have to find each one of these little tracks
that are passing through the body. It's easily displayed on
the external on the exterior of the body, you can
appreciate it it comes. It'll actually distribute powder on the
(16:22):
body as well, so you can get a pretty accurate
reading for how far away with this weapon. This shoulder
fire and arm, because that's that's what it is. You
fired from the shoulder. It's a long arm. You can
turn this thing around. And I find that it's very
interesting you made this assessment day when mister Cantrell had
(16:42):
this awareness that his brecious bride, who he's probably spent
a good deal of his life with, has been shot.
Can you imagine he springs into action. This weapon that's
a long arm can be used as a bludgeon, and
that is in fact what occurred with this. He was
beaten about his head. He had five distinct lacerations to
(17:05):
his head and those arise from blunt force trauma. There's
going to be very jagged injuries.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
One thing to review very quickly in case you missed
episode the other day where we actually talked about lacerations.
Up until the other day, I thought laceration was a
slicing wound. That is not what happened. Being bludgeoned is
to be beaten, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
It is, And it's when you begin to beat somebody
down with this thing. Every time you strike, let's say
you're being the victim or the target is being struck
with the butt of the weapon that is transferring energy.
The first strike, he may have been standing up, but
after you struck with the force of this thing, he's
(17:47):
going down to his knees and then you're in a
dominant position over him and Dave. According to the medical examiner,
this perpetrator beat seventy six year old mister Cantrell in
the head to the point where his skull fracture. It
is somewhat of a great feet fracture. A skull, the
(18:07):
skull is very resilient. We think that skull fractures happen
all the time. Well, our skull is very resilient, and
so in order to introduce this kind of force into
the environment, and he's probably striking the same location over
and over, and so the structural is becoming weaker and
weaker until it finally fractures.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There are also different types of skull fractures. Correct, there's
the linear, which is just a crack in the skull
where the the bones are even but a crack, and
then there's depressed right.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, yeah, So we actually refer to the skull itself,
the surface of the skull as what's referred to as
the external table of the skull, and it's layered and
it's a fascinating structure. You know, if you look at
the bone of the skull on cross section, it's got
a matrix that lies beneath the surface and it's I
(18:59):
don't know that any engineer could create something that is
as resilient as bone like this. In this particular case,
the skull itself, it's created to absorb shocks. So you
have the external table of skull, you have this kind
of matrix that's in between it. It looks almost like
a honeycomb. And then you have the internal surface of
(19:20):
the skull that's smooth because it's adjacent to the brain,
and so you have to make your way through that.
And with a depressed skull fracture like you were mentioning,
literally part of that external table gives way. So it's
not just like it's fractured. It is the fact that
now if it's depressed, and depressed means to be sunken
(19:43):
in you're driving the bone into the brain, and that
bone will fragment many times and send little splinters into
the brain. And in this case, aj Cantrell died on
that floor immediately adjacent to his wife Patsy, after she
been shot with the same weapon. I make a big
(20:22):
deal out of learning from the dead, and I even
use the term we allow the dead to speak in
this particular case. What I'm meaning is that the injuries
that you have on a body will give you an
idea as to the dynamics of an event. This is
(20:43):
the thing. No horror rider that is out there can
right the injuries like a scientist can interpret them. And
suddenly this thing springs to life in your mind when
you begin to see the outline of the butt of
a weapon. Because many times the butt of the weapon
won't be textured, it'll have marks on it, and for
every one of those strikes, you'll leave a mark behind
(21:05):
to indicate that there was tremendous violence. Here, you see
the streaking of blood. You see how the skin is
ripped and torn as a result of as you mentioned,
Dave this laceration that arises from blunt force trauma, and
then you see the other attempts that were made to
strike these abrasions where maybe mister Cantrell, in his fighting back,
(21:28):
he turns his head and he just kind of the
butt of the weapon just kind of scrapes across the skin.
Then he realigns, and the next thing you know, he's
hit full force. But this is done over and over
and over again. It makes me think, Dave there, his
wife is laying on the floor, don't know if she's
dead yet, but her life is seeping out, and all
(21:49):
he can think about in that instant is to get
over to her and render aid. And that just was
not to be in this case.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You're right, Joe, when I go back over this, thinking
of you're living in a small town, a community that
leaves the front door unlocked, in the keys, the ignition
without fear, and now the worst possible thing has happened
in your castle, the one place you're the this is
(22:16):
your home, and this invader has now attacked in such
a horrible way. Your spouse is shot, you're getting beat
I don't know at what point mister Cantrell was not
alert to what was going on. I'm hoping it was
fairly quickly, because the first hit on that gun to
his head could have rendered him. It could have knocked
(22:37):
him out right. I mean, he could have been unconscious.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It could have And I got to interject something here
real quick, because this is a question that I could
asked or was always asked by family members, and you
bring it up right here, and I think that it's
it's certainly important. People always want to know if their
loved ones suffered. Just let that just kind of resonate
just for a second, and have that question asked to
(23:01):
me all the time, did they suffer? Because people want
to know what the status of this person that they
had loved throughout their life was. And early on in
my career I would say, no, they didn't suffer. But
you know, as time went by, I couldn't. I was
not capable of dishonesty any longer. I would simply say,
I don't know. In this case, I would hope that
(23:24):
he lost consciousness, but he had an awareness, and it
was painful. It was very painful. And I think also
the wife's death was very painful because she had an awareness.
I don't think that she initially died immediately.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I understand why people ask that, and I think that
in reality, we're asking you to tell us that our
loved one didn't suffer and that it was all a
big surprise shock and they had no idea. But you're right,
the truth needs to have its day because you have
real world consequences, and sometimes you need to face these
consequences based on knowing what really transpired. So after he
(23:58):
kills the can til after he shoots Patsy Cantrell and
then beats Aj to death, mister Cantrell, Isismer goes across
the street. His original target was his ex girlfriend Catherine,
not necessarily her son or her mother. And again, remember
this is the family. The first person that Eimer met
when he arrived into Pew, Oklahoma was mister Wright, the
(24:21):
head of this household, mowing the yard at the Methodist church.
And mister Wright invited Isismer into their church and into
their family. And here we are a year later. Eismer
has just shot Patsy Cantrell and then bludgeoned her husband,
Aj Cantrell. He's now across the street, and what does
(24:42):
he do? He at tacks.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He still got this weapon in his hand. Now walking
out in public with a long arm like this across
the street.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And you know where I lived, that wouldn't be the
most uncommon thing. But if I saw somebody walking across
the street with a gun, with a shotgun, I would
know who the person is and probably know the type
of gun.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, you probably would. And the four to ten is
something that is it is small enough that I think
that many people could mistake it, perhaps if you're at
a distance, not up close, but if you're at a distance,
you could mistake it for perhaps a twenty two caliber rifle,
which again is a varmot weapon essentially. And he's walking
across the street, and Dave, here's an interesting point when
(25:23):
we've talked about Lacart's principle on the show, the transfer
of evidence. Every contact leaves a trace. Dave, when he
is exiting their home, he's transporting VISV that gun, and
probably himself. He's transporting biological evidence from that scene that
he has attached to his person and to this weapon.
Remember this weapon was used as a bludgeon. So when
(25:45):
he enters that home across the street, he brings that
with him.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Now he goes into the home, he shoots the sixteen
year old boy. He attacks sixty three year old mother
and Catherine, all of the family. His ex girlfriend, Catherine
Smith is attacked as well. Now they all survive. The
all three of those survive. He right now has just
killed the Cantrells. But now he's got to get out
(26:10):
of town. And this starts a thirty seven day manhunt
where Isimer is hiding out in the woods and everything else.
And I'm thinking a small community like this, and this
guy's able to elude capture by sleeping in the woods
and stuff. That's just pretty odd and remarkable of hisself.
But he eventually was caught after he kidnapped a couple
(26:31):
out of in Tulsa, gets him to drive to Texas
and this man had a couple that he kidnapped. He
carjacked this man in the car. He's a doctor, doctor Peeples.
He actually had a pistol stashed in this van. And
they get at a certain place and mister doctor Peebles
is able to shoot Isimer four or five times with
(26:51):
the handgun and thus ends the reign of terror by
Scott Isimer.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, and you know what I got to tell you.
The door people's we kind of briefly mentioned the manhunt
day when this manhunt occurred looking for Ozmer, did you
know that this was at the time, it was the
longest man hunt in the history of state of Oklahoma
that they were looking for this guy. So my thought
(27:18):
is is that doctor Peoples, he had an awareness. He knew,
you know, to go back to our analogy earlier, he
knew that the devil had taken hold at this point
in time that he was physically rioting, and I'm sure
he's thinking, he knows what's happened over into Pew and
so he knows that if he does not act quickly,
he and his wife are going to wind up the
(27:39):
same as the Cantrells did.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Good point. I did not think about that, Joe, But
you're right, and that to have the presence of mind
doctor Peeples and his protecting himself and his wife, they
actually I'm not saying they allowed themselves to be kidnapped,
but they played it just right. Where you got to
remember Isamer is already a killer, and he's been on
(28:01):
the run, and he's willing to do anything. Yet doctor
Peoples is able to get him settled down enough that
doctor Peeples's able to pull the gun and turn it
on him and actually shoot Scott Ismer. That's the amazing
thing to me is that he had the presence of mind.
He got this guy the coolest jets long enough for
doctor Peebles to gain the upper hand.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Ismer is out fleeing and eluding during this period of time.
I think one of the big questions is what happened
to that four to ten shotgun. And as it turned out,
he had taken it and thrown it out in the woods.
And when the Oklahoma authorities finally caught up with him
and he was eventually caught down I believe in Paris, Texas,
(28:46):
is where he had wound up. They brought him back
to Oklahoma, and the Oklahoma authorities were They were like,
all right, well, you're being charged with this. Do you
want to speak to us? He says, yeah, I'll even
take you to where the weapon is. And it initially
when they went out to the scene where he said
it was, they didn't find it on the first day.
But the second day they they did in fact find
(29:08):
it and it was lying along a creek bank. And
here's one of the chilling things. When they found that weapon,
it had an unfired around in it, so it still
had a chambered round that he could have used. But
here's the thing about long arms like that, if you're
carrying those around, there's no way to secret this weapon,
particularly if you're on foot. It's at that point he's
(29:30):
probably made this decision that he is going to kidnap
somebody else, and he I guess he figures, you know,
he's looking for an elderly target perhaps, and he can
take them down and he can get control of them
and then kind of leapfrog into the next phase of
his journey. But he left that weapon behind because he
knew that it would draw attention. Here's the thing that
(29:53):
I think would be critical here. This weapon had laid
out there for weeks upon weeks, and it it creates
a problem forensically sometimes that if it's not handled correctly,
you might not be able to pick up on some
of the ballistic evidence that's left behind. And with shotguns,
of course, are smooth bore, it becomes particularly complicated. But
(30:14):
here's the thing in this case, we're not to be
concerned if Scott Eimer is going to recavoc any longer.
I don't think that the folks into Pew are going
to have to worry if he is going to come
back and do harm. Scott James Isisimer was executed on
(30:34):
Thursday January twelfth, twenty twenty three. He was pronounced dead
twenty fifteen. AM. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
bodybacks
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Some of my fondest
memories from childhood were getting to meet the older members
of churches that I had attended. Young people always bored me.
(00:32):
I found that the older people to be quite interesting
and they had a lot of stories. Now, every church varies,
but most churches are rather generous. Many people you can
find in these churches will give you the shirt off
their back if you're kind of down and out, and
particularly if they perceive that you're doing good. I want
to talk to you about a case today where it
(00:54):
is the ultimate story involving a wolf in sheep's clothing,
a wolf that descends upon a tiny little Methodist church
in a tiny little town in Oklahoma and brings hell
with him. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave.
(01:18):
I don't know how you feel about it, but I
think that one of the characteristics of having a decent church.
No church is perfect, but having a decent church I
think goes to generosity. People can pontificate all they want
to and read scriptures and doing all that stuff, But
if people can be generous to other people, I think,
and kind and loving and not necessarily expecting anything in return.
(01:42):
I think that's a sign of maybe hell in certain ways.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself. That pretty much
tells you everything. That's a directive. When the Lord tells
you something, you better do it. And when he says
love your neighbor, you love your neighbor. And neighbor is
a place for people that you don't know well, people
you've just met. Being nice, being kind, thinking of the
other person. First. I agree that is the health of
(02:08):
a church. It's amazing to me in this day and
age where we have so many opportunities to share the
gospel worldwide using the Internet, and it's just an amazing
thing now. But Joe, ultimately, the church is not a building.
It's the people and how the people interact with one
another and new friends. And that's how a church actually
(02:31):
is judged, is how they behave in their community with people.
And that's why this story it centers around extending that
right handed fellowship to somebody you just met. In this
particular case, they met the devil on a bicycle.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I think it's one of those things that you never
know how evil is going to show up. And that's
what really struck me. One of the things that really
struck me about this case, and it sounds cheesy, but
it's like the devil road into town on a bicycle
is what this comes down to. He shows up. And
the thing about it is, when somebody's on a bicycle,
(03:06):
you envisioned some kind of you know, the Devil's going
to roll into town and he's going to be in
like some evil looking mac truck or large truck with
big tires on it, you know, and horns on the hood.
This guy, because he's not the devil, he's a man
that was very evil, shows up on a bicycle, and
it almost when you're looking from an investigative perspective and
(03:29):
you're looking through the eyes, you know, you're trying to
look at the eyes of the people that are impacted
by what this guy did. I don't know that there's
any more passive mode of transportation other than going out
for a stroll.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Perhaps it's the first mode of transportation we actually have.
And that's it's so funny. For most people, I include
myself in this one. Our bike is one of the
most important possessions we have as an early teenager, right
before you can get your freedom in a car, you know,
you get that first real freedom with a bike. Where
yous tell mom and dad, I'll be back in a
(04:02):
couple hours. I'm going to go here or there, back
in the day anyway. In this particular case, imagine it's
a Saturday afternoon, beautiful day, and he shows up peddling along,
and there's this church in the small town of Depew, Oklahoma,
and it's a late day in September. A man riding
a bicycle shows up and starts chatting with the guy
(04:26):
mowing the yard. He tells him the man I'm talking about,
Scott Isermer tells the man mowing the yard. Hey, I'm
bicycling across country to raise money for victims of nine
to eleven, which not that much of an uncommon thing.
Back in September two thousand and two, one year after
nine to eleven, a lot of people were raising money
for different funds related to the nine to eleven event.
(04:48):
I wouldn't raise the red flag over that if somebody
told me they were doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No, and listen, I'm not saying that evil doesn't happen
in small towns. This town roughly has a population somewhere
in between about four hundred and five hundred people. Everybody
knows one another here, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
All right, Well, the first person mister Isimer finds is
retired school teacher John Wright. Again, it's a Saturday, and
mister Wright's mowing the lawn at the Methodist church, getting
ready for services the next morning. Now, the community has described,
as you said, very small town. But you know where
everybody leaves the front door on lock, leaves keys in
(05:25):
the ignition. Just one of those pleasant places to live.
And Ismer was able, Scott Eismer was able to take
advantage of that. He tells mister Wright, Hey, I'm doing
this to Ray's money, you know, for nine to eleven,
which you mind if I pitched a tent on the
backyard here at the church overnight? And mister Wright says,
I'll go you on better, son, Why don't you come
(05:46):
on in and stay in the fellowship all night, sleeping
there in the air conditioning. It'll feel good. And that's
where they met. They being Scott Eimer and the entire
community of Depew, Oklahoma, met on a fall day in
two thousand and two. Now, mister Wright had a daughter
and her name was Kathy Biggs. Mister Scott Isimer became
(06:10):
romantically involved with Missus Biggs, and that romantic relationship led
for Missus Biggs to file for divorce and she and
Isenmer moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma and lived in an apartment there.
Now this is fairly quickly. Scott Eismer, obviously he's a player,
and he gets Catherine. They moved to Tulsa set up shop.
(06:34):
Less than a year, the romance faded and Catherine Biggs
moved back home to Depew, Oklahoma. And by the way,
when she got home, she filed for protective order against
Scott Isimer. So now we're a year past that encounter
on the bicycle at the church, that first man that
he met, mister Wright. He marries his daughter. A year
goes by, and now miss Wright has a protective order
(06:58):
against Isomer. Mister Ismer now shows up in Tulsa, and
or he spends time in the Tulsa County Jail for
violation of the protective order. So this is not a
man that has control of all of his emotional faculties.
Is that a good way to phrase that?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I think that it is. It's excellent anytime you
have an event that winds up in a homicide, and
in this case, a multiple homicide, you have to look
back into the history of a subject to see because
most of the time, and this is one of the
things that really frustrates the public, me included, when you
take the long view of it, you see it tracking forward,
(07:34):
you can see that this is not going to end
well because you've got preceding behaviors that come along with this,
violent behaviors that indicate that if this person is not
interdicted in some way, it's going to wind up in
a real tragedy, and certainly it did in this particular case.
(07:56):
As a matter of fact, this little town of lesson
five hundred people will be scarred forever endeavor. I don't
(08:22):
know why. I'm still amazed after all these years that
you see a circumstance where an individual is spinning out
of control and then all of a sudden it winds
up in a complete and total train wreck for everybody
that is involved around them. And it's interesting, isn't it.
It's like, in the news media and whatnot, the perpetrator
(08:45):
so many times Dave becomes the focus of the case
and you really begin to forget about the victims. In
a case, they become I guess, eccentric and the porpetrator
is concentric to the story. And that's a real shame.
And I think that that to a great degree after
(09:07):
these number of years, has happened in this particular case.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I agree with you. It does take you down a
path that you don't want to go. I want to
remember the people, the victims. But in this particular case,
we have one man, Scott Isimer, and several victims. So
let's start with Isimer. Quick review. Arrived on town on
a bicycle, meets a man at the Methodist church who
introduces him to his daughter. A romantic relationship blooms. The
(09:33):
pedals fall off the flower within a year, and Catherine
Smith now finds herself back in the town of Depew,
and she has a protection order against Scott Isimer. Isimer
wants to see her again, and so he makes a plan.
His plan is to stay across the street from her
(09:55):
house and surveill it and basically lie and wait. That's
a legal term, believe it or not, Lie and wait.
That's exactly what Scott Eismer was doing. He waited until
aj Cantrell and his wife Patsy left home. He sneaks
into their home and watches right across the street. His
ex girlfriend Catherine, her sixteen year old son, and by
(10:16):
the way, her sixty three year old mother all live
in this house. While Scott Eismer is watching the home,
the Cantrell's come back home earlier than he thought. He
thought he had more time, but they arrived back home.
This is where evil takes place and Scott Eismer takes
a four to ten shotgun he finds inside the Cantrell's
(10:36):
home and as they walk in the house, he shoots
and kills Patsy Cantrell with the shotgun and then uses
the shotgun to beat A. J. Cantrell to death. Joe,
they're seventy in their seventies.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, mister Crantreill was seventy six.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Day And I kind of imagined this that while Eismer
was able to get one shot off on missus Cantrell
on Patsy, that mister Cantrell was on the attack right
away and went right after. That's what I'm assuming here,
because Eisenber was not able to get a shot off
on mister Cantrell, but he beat him to death. With
(11:14):
a shotgun. So backing up, Joe, what kind of injuries
are we looking at from a four to ten shotgun?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, first off, four ten it's not uncommon, but it's
not when you think of shotguns, which are traditionally when
we think of the word caliber or the size, it's
the diameter of the bore. Shotguns are actually measured not
in caliber but in gauges. And so the lower the
number of the gauge, like you have traditionally like a
(11:42):
twenty gauge, it'll skip traditionally to sixteen gauge, and then
you have twelve gauge, which is very common, that's what
the police carry, is what the military carries, and then
you drop down to ten gauge. Actually, a ten gauge
is something in the past that's been a s I said,
with an elephant gun because it'll fire, it can fire
(12:03):
these very robust slugs, very lethal weapon. But then you
have this outlier as far as a shotgun, and it's
measured in zero point four to one zero, which is odd,
and it's not a gauge. It's actually a caliber and
it's the equivalent of a forty one caliber bullet. You've
heard dirty Harry for instance, forty four magnum most powerful
(12:25):
handgun in the world, will blow your head clean off.
But they have measured the bore of the four to
ten shotgun as point four to one, and it can
take slugs. It'll fire slugs, and it'll also fire shot
as well, like bird shot in this particular case, which
are tiny. If people have never seen bird shot, it
(12:46):
looks just like BB's now. The bbs that are contained
within each one of these rounds can come in a
variety of sizes, but suffice it to say there are
a large number of bebes contained in each shell. And
most of the time four to ten shotgun is utilized.
Some people will refer to it as a varmint weapon.
(13:07):
You can go, you can actually hunt rabbit with it.
People use it. Young young kids are given four to
ten shotguns because they don't have a lot of recoil
to them. They'll use them to hunt squirrel with small game.
People around farms use them to kill rats with for instance,
or snakes. Matter of fact, there's a famous weapon that's
(13:28):
referred to as a snake charmer. That's a single shot
four to ten shotgun, but it operates just like a
regular shotgun, and it's a smooth bore weapon. So when
this thing is fired, and in this case, when miss
Kentrell was actually shot, it launched a single volley of
(13:49):
bebi's into her. And the way we like in her
case in forensics, one of the ways that we would
get an idea as to how far away this weapon
was from her when it was discharged is that you
would measure the circumference or the distribution of the bebes
(14:09):
on the wound pattern as they entered the body. Most
of the time we think about dispersal of gunshot residue,
and you know, lots of times you'll get soot on wounds.
We talk about that, and the broader the expanse of
the soot, if you're talking about like a pistol shot,
gives you an approximation of distance. But with bird shot
(14:29):
like this, you get these all these little satellite wounds
that are just slightly bigger than say the head of
a pen, that penetrate the body. What's so devastating about
it is that you get multiple of these ripping through
the body. The wider the expanse, the further the distance
is the muzzle target distances when the thing is discharged,
(14:52):
and so each one of these little bebes tracks through
the body on its own individual little trajecttory as it
or wound track rather as it passes through the body,
and it can Let's say, if you're four feet away
from somebody and you aim center mass with this thing,
it'll initially come out as like a cylinder in the
(15:13):
air and travel and as it gets further and further
away from the end of the muzzle, that cylinder begins
to open up. And so now instead of having a
point four to one cylinder size that's going down range,
suddenly it has in caliber it's expanded out to maybe
point six to oh so you're talking about zero point
(15:36):
six oh inches, or it can expand out too point
seventy And so as in the further and further away,
the broader this expanse gets, you can have one of
these rounds that'll track and it'll clip, say the liver
and maybe the spleen, the pancreas, the bowel, and these
things are a nightmare for surgeons to have to work
(15:58):
on if the person served and they make it to
the hospital, because it's not like you just have a
single bullet hole that's entered the body and tracked through.
They have to find each one of these little tracks
that are passing through the body. It's easily displayed on
the external on the exterior of the body, you can
appreciate it it comes. It'll actually distribute powder on the
(16:22):
body as well, so you can get a pretty accurate
reading for how far away with this weapon. This shoulder
fire and arm, because that's that's what it is. You
fired from the shoulder. It's a long arm. You can
turn this thing around. And I find that it's very
interesting you made this assessment day when mister Cantrell had
(16:42):
this awareness that his brecious bride, who he's probably spent
a good deal of his life with, has been shot.
Can you imagine he springs into action. This weapon that's
a long arm can be used as a bludgeon, and
that is in fact what occurred with this. He was
beaten about his head. He had five distinct lacerations to
(17:05):
his head and those arise from blunt force trauma. There's
going to be very jagged injuries.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
One thing to review very quickly in case you missed
episode the other day where we actually talked about lacerations.
Up until the other day, I thought laceration was a
slicing wound. That is not what happened. Being bludgeoned is
to be beaten, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
It is, And it's when you begin to beat somebody
down with this thing. Every time you strike, let's say
you're being the victim or the target is being struck
with the butt of the weapon that is transferring energy.
The first strike, he may have been standing up, but
after you struck with the force of this thing, he's
(17:47):
going down to his knees and then you're in a
dominant position over him and Dave. According to the medical examiner,
this perpetrator beat seventy six year old mister Cantrell in
the head to the point where his skull fracture. It
is somewhat of a great feet fracture. A skull, the
(18:07):
skull is very resilient. We think that skull fractures happen
all the time. Well, our skull is very resilient, and
so in order to introduce this kind of force into
the environment, and he's probably striking the same location over
and over, and so the structural is becoming weaker and
weaker until it finally fractures.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
There are also different types of skull fractures. Correct, there's
the linear, which is just a crack in the skull
where the the bones are even but a crack, and
then there's depressed right.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, yeah, So we actually refer to the skull itself,
the surface of the skull as what's referred to as
the external table of the skull, and it's layered and
it's a fascinating structure. You know, if you look at
the bone of the skull on cross section, it's got
a matrix that lies beneath the surface and it's I
(18:59):
don't know that any engineer could create something that is
as resilient as bone like this. In this particular case,
the skull itself, it's created to absorb shocks. So you
have the external table of skull, you have this kind
of matrix that's in between it. It looks almost like
a honeycomb. And then you have the internal surface of
(19:20):
the skull that's smooth because it's adjacent to the brain,
and so you have to make your way through that.
And with a depressed skull fracture like you were mentioning,
literally part of that external table gives way. So it's
not just like it's fractured. It is the fact that
now if it's depressed, and depressed means to be sunken
(19:43):
in you're driving the bone into the brain, and that
bone will fragment many times and send little splinters into
the brain. And in this case, aj Cantrell died on
that floor immediately adjacent to his wife Patsy, after she
been shot with the same weapon. I make a big
(20:22):
deal out of learning from the dead, and I even
use the term we allow the dead to speak in
this particular case. What I'm meaning is that the injuries
that you have on a body will give you an
idea as to the dynamics of an event. This is
(20:43):
the thing. No horror rider that is out there can
right the injuries like a scientist can interpret them. And
suddenly this thing springs to life in your mind when
you begin to see the outline of the butt of
a weapon. Because many times the butt of the weapon
won't be textured, it'll have marks on it, and for
every one of those strikes, you'll leave a mark behind
(21:05):
to indicate that there was tremendous violence. Here, you see
the streaking of blood. You see how the skin is
ripped and torn as a result of as you mentioned,
Dave this laceration that arises from blunt force trauma, and
then you see the other attempts that were made to
strike these abrasions where maybe mister Cantrell, in his fighting back,
(21:28):
he turns his head and he just kind of the
butt of the weapon just kind of scrapes across the skin.
Then he realigns, and the next thing you know, he's
hit full force. But this is done over and over
and over again. It makes me think, Dave there, his
wife is laying on the floor, don't know if she's
dead yet, but her life is seeping out, and all
(21:49):
he can think about in that instant is to get
over to her and render aid. And that just was
not to be in this case.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You're right, Joe, when I go back over this, thinking
of you're living in a small town, a community that
leaves the front door unlocked, in the keys, the ignition
without fear, and now the worst possible thing has happened
in your castle, the one place you're the this is
(22:16):
your home, and this invader has now attacked in such
a horrible way. Your spouse is shot, you're getting beat
I don't know at what point mister Cantrell was not
alert to what was going on. I'm hoping it was
fairly quickly, because the first hit on that gun to
his head could have rendered him. It could have knocked
(22:37):
him out right. I mean, he could have been unconscious.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It could have And I got to interject something here
real quick, because this is a question that I could
asked or was always asked by family members, and you
bring it up right here, and I think that it's
it's certainly important. People always want to know if their
loved ones suffered. Just let that just kind of resonate
just for a second, and have that question asked to
(23:01):
me all the time, did they suffer? Because people want
to know what the status of this person that they
had loved throughout their life was. And early on in
my career I would say, no, they didn't suffer. But
you know, as time went by, I couldn't. I was
not capable of dishonesty any longer. I would simply say,
I don't know. In this case, I would hope that
(23:24):
he lost consciousness, but he had an awareness, and it
was painful. It was very painful. And I think also
the wife's death was very painful because she had an awareness.
I don't think that she initially died immediately.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I understand why people ask that, and I think that
in reality, we're asking you to tell us that our
loved one didn't suffer and that it was all a
big surprise shock and they had no idea. But you're right,
the truth needs to have its day because you have
real world consequences, and sometimes you need to face these
consequences based on knowing what really transpired. So after he
(23:58):
kills the can til after he shoots Patsy Cantrell and
then beats Aj to death, mister Cantrell, Isismer goes across
the street. His original target was his ex girlfriend Catherine,
not necessarily her son or her mother. And again, remember
this is the family. The first person that Eimer met
when he arrived into Pew, Oklahoma was mister Wright, the
(24:21):
head of this household, mowing the yard at the Methodist church.
And mister Wright invited Isismer into their church and into
their family. And here we are a year later. Eismer
has just shot Patsy Cantrell and then bludgeoned her husband,
Aj Cantrell. He's now across the street, and what does
(24:42):
he do? He at tacks.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He still got this weapon in his hand. Now walking
out in public with a long arm like this across
the street.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And you know where I lived, that wouldn't be the
most uncommon thing. But if I saw somebody walking across
the street with a gun, with a shotgun, I would
know who the person is and probably know the type
of gun.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, you probably would. And the four to ten is
something that is it is small enough that I think
that many people could mistake it, perhaps if you're at
a distance, not up close, but if you're at a distance,
you could mistake it for perhaps a twenty two caliber rifle,
which again is a varmot weapon essentially. And he's walking
across the street, and Dave, here's an interesting point when
(25:23):
we've talked about Lacart's principle on the show, the transfer
of evidence. Every contact leaves a trace. Dave, when he
is exiting their home, he's transporting VISV that gun, and
probably himself. He's transporting biological evidence from that scene that
he has attached to his person and to this weapon.
Remember this weapon was used as a bludgeon. So when
(25:45):
he enters that home across the street, he brings that
with him.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Now he goes into the home, he shoots the sixteen
year old boy. He attacks sixty three year old mother
and Catherine, all of the family. His ex girlfriend, Catherine
Smith is attacked as well. Now they all survive. The
all three of those survive. He right now has just
killed the Cantrells. But now he's got to get out
(26:10):
of town. And this starts a thirty seven day manhunt
where Isimer is hiding out in the woods and everything else.
And I'm thinking a small community like this, and this
guy's able to elude capture by sleeping in the woods
and stuff. That's just pretty odd and remarkable of hisself.
But he eventually was caught after he kidnapped a couple
(26:31):
out of in Tulsa, gets him to drive to Texas
and this man had a couple that he kidnapped. He
carjacked this man in the car. He's a doctor, doctor Peeples.
He actually had a pistol stashed in this van. And
they get at a certain place and mister doctor Peebles
is able to shoot Isimer four or five times with
(26:51):
the handgun and thus ends the reign of terror by
Scott Isimer.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, and you know what I got to tell you.
The door people's we kind of briefly mentioned the manhunt
day when this manhunt occurred looking for Ozmer, did you
know that this was at the time, it was the
longest man hunt in the history of state of Oklahoma
that they were looking for this guy. So my thought
(27:18):
is is that doctor Peoples, he had an awareness. He knew,
you know, to go back to our analogy earlier, he
knew that the devil had taken hold at this point
in time that he was physically rioting, and I'm sure
he's thinking, he knows what's happened over into Pew and
so he knows that if he does not act quickly,
he and his wife are going to wind up the
(27:39):
same as the Cantrells did.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Good point. I did not think about that, Joe, But
you're right, and that to have the presence of mind
doctor Peeples and his protecting himself and his wife, they
actually I'm not saying they allowed themselves to be kidnapped,
but they played it just right. Where you got to
remember Isamer is already a killer, and he's been on
(28:01):
the run, and he's willing to do anything. Yet doctor
Peoples is able to get him settled down enough that
doctor Peeples's able to pull the gun and turn it
on him and actually shoot Scott Ismer. That's the amazing
thing to me is that he had the presence of mind.
He got this guy the coolest jets long enough for
doctor Peebles to gain the upper hand.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Ismer is out fleeing and eluding during this period of time.
I think one of the big questions is what happened
to that four to ten shotgun. And as it turned out,
he had taken it and thrown it out in the woods.
And when the Oklahoma authorities finally caught up with him
and he was eventually caught down I believe in Paris, Texas,
(28:46):
is where he had wound up. They brought him back
to Oklahoma, and the Oklahoma authorities were They were like,
all right, well, you're being charged with this. Do you
want to speak to us? He says, yeah, I'll even
take you to where the weapon is. And it initially
when they went out to the scene where he said
it was, they didn't find it on the first day.
But the second day they they did in fact find
(29:08):
it and it was lying along a creek bank. And
here's one of the chilling things. When they found that weapon,
it had an unfired around in it, so it still
had a chambered round that he could have used. But
here's the thing about long arms like that, if you're
carrying those around, there's no way to secret this weapon,
particularly if you're on foot. It's at that point he's
(29:30):
probably made this decision that he is going to kidnap
somebody else, and he I guess he figures, you know,
he's looking for an elderly target perhaps, and he can
take them down and he can get control of them
and then kind of leapfrog into the next phase of
his journey. But he left that weapon behind because he
knew that it would draw attention. Here's the thing that
(29:53):
I think would be critical here. This weapon had laid
out there for weeks upon weeks, and it it creates
a problem forensically sometimes that if it's not handled correctly,
you might not be able to pick up on some
of the ballistic evidence that's left behind. And with shotguns,
of course, are smooth bore, it becomes particularly complicated. But
(30:14):
here's the thing in this case, we're not to be
concerned if Scott Eimer is going to recavoc any longer.
I don't think that the folks into Pew are going
to have to worry if he is going to come
back and do harm. Scott James Isisimer was executed on
(30:34):
Thursday January twelfth, twenty twenty three. He was pronounced dead
twenty fifteen. AM. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
bodybacks
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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