December 16, 2021 • 34 mins
11-year-old Gannon Stauch is reported missing by his stepmother. Two months later the boy's body is found 1400 miles away from his Colorado home. We now know, Gannon Stauch was, according to police, murdered in his bedroom by his stepmother. Recovered evidence supports a violent event occurred in the bedroom with blood spatter on the walls, and soaked through the carpet. Police say Stauch was shot in the jaw and stabbed more than 18 times. Today, forensics expert and former death scene investigator Josph Scott Morgan, breaks down the evidence that could be used in Leteica Stauch.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. For most of us,
the promise of a trip to the beach in Florida
brings up thoughts of the warm air, the sun beating
down on us as we lay in the sand, listening
(00:29):
to the surf, hearing the goals overhead, and just relaxing.
For eleven year old Gannon Stouch, nothing to be further
from the truth. Today, we're gonna talk about one of
the most horrific crimes in recent memory. We're gonna talk
about Againett Stouch. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is
(00:51):
body Bags back with me again Today is my good
friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of crom Stories. When Nan grace, Jackie,
what can you tell us about Gannon? Gannon Stouch lived
with his father and his stepmother, Al and Ltitia Stouch.
The dad served in the military in the National Guard
(01:14):
and was often away for training. As a matter of fact,
his father, Al was in Oklahoma Quinn Gannon died. Letitia Stouch,
the stepmother, reported the eleven year old missing. She said
that he had stayed home from school originally because he
had a stomach ache, and then she had traveled out
with him to a park later on that day, within
twenty four hours of the first nine one one call
(01:36):
reporting Gannon missing. The stories definitely did not add up.
Letitia had initially told detectives that when Gannon had gone
to the friend's house and didn't return, she could not
tell them the friend's name, address, her phone number. Then
she changed her story and said that a neighborhood construction
worker had broken into the house and raped her and
took Gannon. Then she said that she had watched Gannon
(01:58):
ride his bike and he fell off, hit his head
and then two men drove up and grabbed him and
took off. So we have conflicting stories about what happened
to Gannon. Here. It was two months before Gannon's douch's
body was found, and it was found in Florida, more
than four miles away. Gannon had been stuffed into a
suitcase and discarded. Jackie one of the most valuable bits
(02:22):
of currency. UH odd term to use, but in scientific
parlance for US and forensics is time. You know these
things that where we're trying to put these elements together
to understand what exactly happened. And when you have a
case such as Gannon's that extends out over such a
(02:42):
broad reaching spectrum of time, then that's that creates a
multiple multitude of problems for us. You begin thinking about, well,
he was last seen on January January, January, I believe,
and then he wasn't found for almost another two months.
(03:03):
And so when you're trying to put things together, you
have to think about things like, uh, decompositional changes, what
what's going to impact those findings, what's going to impact, uh,
the way we view the way the body is initially
found as opposed to where we think that, say, a
fatal event occurred. And keep in mind we're talking about
(03:26):
a distance of four hundred miles, Jackie. That's a long
ways from Colorado to Florida. It is a long way,
and you know, Joe, one of the things that was
important to note here in this case, the position in
Florida is not where Gannon was originally dumped. We have
a location back in Colorado where police say Gannon's body
(03:50):
was left for at least a month and then retrieved
and transported to Florida. So I'm just going to open
the field up to you and let you go, because
I have to imagine that the you know, the different
locations the time. There are so many things that has
to be considered here. Yeah, there are, and there are
multiple elements involving here. They are going to impact changes
(04:14):
in the body specifically. And can you know, for an
unseasoned investigator, UM can throw you off very very quickly
if you're not really attuned to the environment in which
the body is found in. And let me just give
you a brief example, and this will kind of paint
paint the picture. If you think about let's just think
about soil. Okay, think about what the soil is probably
(04:37):
like out in Colorado. You might have a mix of
a lot of decomposed uh say, for instance, plant life
from that particular area. Think about evergreen trees, uh, combined
with maybe a clay base in the in the soil.
And then he is from Colorado. He apparently died there.
(04:58):
And then you think about where he was finally deposited.
That's in Florida, Jackie. What's the soil like in Florida. Well,
I can tell you this. The one of the major
components in Florida UM is going to be sand. So
you're not necessarily gonna find those two elements in the
same place, and so that's a distinctive thing that we
look for in forensic science. Soil science is actually a
(05:20):
big part of what we referred to as trace evidence.
It's a particular section you can go to at the
crime lab and they study these sorts of things that
in and of itself is major when you're trying to
put together what actually happened. But just like we can
look at soil, there are multiple elements here in Gannon's case.
(05:42):
Chief among this is going to be uh for instance,
that he was in apparently apparently multiple locations after death.
He died, we believe, at least according to what the
police are saying, in Colorado, in El Paso County, antially
in that home. How do I know that, Well, his
(06:04):
stepmother allegedly had his step sister go out and purchase
items like bleach, garbage bags, these sorts of things that
you would use to facilitate cleaning in an environment. We
know that his body was there, he certainly lived there
for a while. And then you know how you mentioned
that he was held in one location for about a month.
(06:25):
That place was Douglas County, Colorado. That's where the police
think that the initial dump site was. But you know what,
there's a scene in between that. You know what it is.
It's the vehicle that was used to initially transport his body.
So moving from his home, his body being moved from
his home in El Paso County to Douglas County, that's
(06:46):
another scene. Even though it's on wheels, you have elements
of his body that might be contained in that vehicle
from that first trip. Now, once he gets deposited in
Douglas County, follow me here in Douglas County, Colorado. For
some reason, you know the old adage they talk about
how the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime.
Maybe an individual is getting uncomfortable at this moment time.
(07:08):
Maybe they're thinking, we need to put more distance physical
distance between ourselves and a body. So what happens His
body is then gathered back up. And keep in mind,
when you gather his body back up at that scene
in Colorado, that initial dump site, you're picking up all
of the debris that was underlying that body, anything that
attached itself to his body, or clothing that he may
(07:30):
have been wearing. You know what, Jackie, that's going with him.
Then you place it back in the car. And now
now you've got to make this fourteen hundred mile journey
from rural Colorado all the way down to the panhandle
of Florida. Now, how are you going to do that? Well, apparently,
from what the police are telling us, he wasn't placed
(07:53):
in in plastic or I think that he was probably
wrapped in something. But it's not like they just simply
put him into a garbage act. It's not what they did.
They actually took a suitcase, folded this little boy's body
up and stuffed it in there. And then they transporting
all these miles and so now you've got the influence
(08:14):
of the suitcase that comes into play with his body.
Anything is contained within that suitcase, it's going to transfer
to his body. Anything that was on his body is
going to transfer to that suitcase. And now they finally
make it to Florida and they get to this bridge,
and my thought is, whoever did this pulled over, maybe
on the side of that bridge and simply threw him
off into this waterway. And it's really tragic, uh, but
(08:38):
it's it's a good thing in the end, because his
body didn't float out to sea. It was essentially lodged
there on the bank where the where the local workers
actually wound up funding. So we know that Letitia rented
a van in February and drove from Colorado to Pensacola, Florida,
and she stayed at a hotel that was about three
(08:59):
and a half miles from where Gainnon's body was later found.
You talked about the forensics possibly blood from the first
time that Gainnon's body was transported. So now we've got
a different vehicle that could possibly have evidence in it
if we followed this line of evidence where she rented
a vehicle most likely since she's in Florida to dispose
(09:21):
of the body. So we're gonna find what soil from
Colorado that you're not necessarily going to find in Florida,
bug larva from Colorado that you're not going to find
in Florida. I mean, what are those kinds of differences, Joe,
Listen to you, Jack, you're talking about bug laarva. There
you go. You're absolutely right. You're on the right track here,
because you know, we talked about things like I'm gonna
(09:43):
break this down. We talk about things like flora and fauna.
We learned this in basic biology, and see it's very
simple This isn't rocket science. This applies to forensics. It's
some of the stuff that we look from for from
a biological standpoint, Flora meaning any kind of plant life,
and and then fauna meaning any kind of of insect
(10:04):
life or anything just thinking anything with a heartbeat, okay,
And that can extend all the way through the animal kingdom.
So the bug life, for instance, the insect life for instance,
in Colorado is going to vary greatly from that that
is found down in Florida, as we well know. I mean,
how many of us have been to the heat of
Florida and you're slapping mosquitoes and gnats and everything else
(10:25):
down there, and we definitely know that insects are in
that area, but there in Colorado as well. So you're
talking about specific species that in dwell Colorado. Well, if
they have potentially laid their eggs on our adjacent to
Gann's body, which I would assume that they would have,
if we go with this idea that he was down
for a month there, those are gonna be transported with him,
(10:49):
unless you know the perpetrator went to a great deal
of trouble to clean all of this way. I can't
imagine that that was done, there would still be some
remnant of that left behind. And then when you get
down to floor Porida, you're going to have this um
deposition of eggs that come from the local uh insect
life down there at that point in time. So you're really,
(11:10):
you know, the nature is actually painting painting a picture
for us here. It's actually creating kind of a breadcrumb trail,
if you will, relative to this journey that he's taken.
So that's very very specific, and I think that going
back to what you had mentioned, the rental of the van,
you know, this expands this out even further because if
if the vehicle used the first time to deposit his body,
(11:34):
will say the family vehicle, that's going to have unique
evidence from the home to that deposition spot there where
his body was laid out there in Douglas County. Then
if you use the van to transport the body from
Douglas County to Florida, which we can assume that's that's
what happened. Since a van was rented, then that's gonna
(11:56):
be a separate collection of evidence. You're not gonna have
this over layer commingling of evidence. So that actually works
in the favor of the police as they're investigating this case.
And it's not just the police, Jackie, because what do
we have going on here? Well, anytime you're involved in
perpetrating a felony like this, UM, you now call upon
(12:19):
the resources, you invoke the resources of the FBI. How
many states are there between Colorado and Florida. You're talking
about the transportation of a body, a deceased child, from
one state all the way to the other side of
the United States. So now you're going to call the
full force of the FBI and all of their resources.
And I can tell you at their lab they have
(12:41):
one of the most complete, instead of the art crime
labs in the world. So let me jump in here,
and I want to make one more point back to
the bug Larva. UM. You've also got the temperature differences
between Colorado because it's February, snows in Colorado in February,
and Florida where it's still fairly temperate weather. And there's
(13:05):
all manner of things that work here, Jackie. When you
begin to think about that, UM, when a body is
kept in an environment that is very cold, UM, you
can actually retard the process of decomposition. That means to
slow it down greatly, kind of blunted, if you will,
(13:27):
to the point where the body is not going to
remain perfectly preserved, but as opposed to being in a
tropical subtropical environment like Florida in that region, remember we're
up near Pensacola on the on the north end of Florida.
Decomposition because of heat is going to accelerate in that area.
(13:48):
So imagine, if you will, as Gannon's body is being
transported from Colorado to Florida, the temperature is creeping upward
as you're leaving Colorado, presuming she took a southward route,
all the while his body, this process of decomposition is
accelerating all the way. And if we factor in the
(14:10):
fact that he is contained within the small space of
this of this suitcase, that's going to accelerate it as well,
because all of the moisture that is being given off
by the body is self contained in there, and it's
going to again further enhance the speed at which the
body is decomposing. I cannot even begin to imagine Jackie,
(14:36):
the foul odor that would have been exuding from that
suitcase as she's transporting it down the road, making her
way very slowly. Remember she stopped and spent the night
along the way. When she would have gotten back into
that van the next morning, perhaps prior to dumping his body.
The smell could have knocked you over. I think any
(15:15):
of us, you know, faced with the proposition of of
having to transport a body over this great country that
we have, over this expansive country, would give any of
us kind of pause for a moment. But can you
actually imagine Jackie transporting the body of a child which
(15:36):
you were given specific charge over, this child that you
had been told to take care of, to to feed,
that you've been entrusted with, and all the while he's
decomposing in the back of the vehicle. No, I can't, Joe,
And especially once it has discovered what happened at this
eleven year old. We now know that Gannon Stouch was
(16:00):
shot in the jaw with a nine millimeter and stabbed
at least eighteen times before he died. So it is
no wonder that the stepmother, Latitia Stouch, sent her daughter
Gannon step sister to go buy cleaning supplies. You know,
this is quite literally a bloody mess. When you're talking
(16:24):
about the volume of when you're talking about the level
of trauma that Gannon endured. Let's let me break this
standing first off. Let me and and this makes it
even more horrific, Jackie. Yes, he was shot in the
jaw and that's uh. Some people are shaking their heads
over that right now. I know, but that that might
(16:45):
have been the most merciful thing that had happened to
him throughout this entire event. Because when you had mentioned
there were eighteen stab wounds, I want to make a
slight correction here because it's not just eighteen stab wounds.
Let's call them sharp for injuries, which is in forensics
is generally the term that we use that can either
imply a stab wound you think about a knife being
(17:08):
buried into somebody, or it can be a slice or
an incised wound. And in Gannon's case, according to some
of the preliminary information that has come out from the police,
Gannon had an awareness Jackie, he had an awareness that
he was being attacked. So that means that more than likely,
(17:28):
more than likely, he tried to fight this person off
with all of his might. He had defensive wounds on
his hands, on his wrists, on his arms, and then
whoever did this to him buried a knife multiple times
into his body, in his chest and in his back,
(17:50):
and you know, it really gives you pause to think about,
you know, what kind of person would do this to
an eleven year old little boy over and over again.
And to make it even worse, there's apparently evidence that
he sustained some blunt force trauma to the head. So
that means that all the while he's being stabbed, he's
(18:11):
also being beaten. And then finally, like I said, mercifully,
he was shot at that point in time. The interesting
thing about this is the following and this is a
key piece of evidence. This gunshot wound that he sustained
from this nine millimeter, which is a semi automatic handgun.
(18:32):
The actual projectile was recovered from his body, and I
sometimes I'm I'm amazed at, you know, the evidence that
we can recover, particularly when you think about all of
these locations that this little boy's body was in and
moved multiple times in a state of decomposition. They still
were able to recover this round, and this round is
going to be very critical in this case finally comes
(18:56):
to trial. And let me tell you why that sound
that they recovered from Gannon's body down in Florida. When
they did the autopsy, that round was actually matched up
to a nine millimeter pistol that they found in the
home Afghan a stepmother. That's a big piece of information
(19:18):
because that actually winds up giving you what's referred to
as a ballistic fingerprint. Those markings that are left on
that bullet. You know, from the traveling down that barrel,
that rifle barrel, this lead projectile traveling down this rifle
barrel leaves these marks on the exterior of this projectile
(19:39):
and it buries into the tissue. Now those markings can
be matched up to the barrel of this weapon and
it doesn't even matter. And this is a fantastic thing
about about ballistic study. You can have a nine millimeter
pistol that's made by the same company we won't say
as specific manufacturer, we'll just call it company A by
(20:00):
company A. It can be the same model, it can
come off with the same production line. But guess what,
each one of the ballistic markings in those barrels made
at the same time are going to be unique to
that weapon, and at the end of the day, that
might be the piece of evidence that winds up getting
a conviction. In this case, in relation to a Gannon
(20:21):
being shot, we know that the crime scene was very bloody.
Is there a difference or how much difference does distance
make in the amount of blood and where it shows
up in the room? Are you going to have a
larger dispersal if you're shot from farther away as opposed
to up close? I think that one of the key
(20:43):
things here. We we do know this. I can tell
you this when you have what's referred to as a
hard contact or press contact gunshot wound, which means that
the perpetrator would take the end of the barrel, the
muzzle of the weapon and tightly press it against the skin. Uh.
Not only are you going to have the projectile entering
(21:05):
the body and that obviously creates a tremendous amount of pressure,
but you're gonna have this expansion of gas, and many
times associated with that, there will be a tremendous amount
of blood that issues forth from that. Now more than likely,
if if he was shot in the jaw, Uh, you're
not gonna have the same amount of blood that you
(21:26):
might have for instance, if if he was if if
he was shot directly into his skull into the cranium
itself with a tightly held weapon. But what we can tell,
and you're talking about range here, we can tell the
distance of the muzzle, the end of the muzzle from
(21:47):
the actual injury itself. Now, this could be compromised a
little bit, just so folks at home understand, don't get
too excited. It can be compromised as a result of
the decomposition. Let's remember this precious little boy was down
for two months after death, Jackie. So the biological process
that are going on in decomposition can compromise the pathologist
(22:09):
ability to determine range of fire. Now, if if this
was a tightly held weapon, and let's say, if folks
will find kind of this area below your ear where
your job begins to descend, that's a rather firm piece
of bone. If this weapon was applied to the jaw
in a very tight press contact area, are are entrance area,
(22:33):
you can actually have a soit deposition on the bone
itself that will travel pass through the skin and kind
of uh tattoo this area around the bone as well.
So that might still be there. Um, And the saving
grace here is that I would imagine in Gannon's case,
they would have taken microscopic sections of the injury, which
(22:55):
happens very commonly at autopsy with gunshot ones, and they'll
look at them microscopically to get an idea as to
the dispersal of say, unpurned gunpowder in the skin that
might still be embedded there. You could still appreciate it,
probably a microscopic level, and then you begin to measure
that out and you kind of it gets kind of
(23:16):
complicated this point, but you kind of do a ratio
relative to the disbursement of the powder grains that are
left behind, and that will give you an idea as
to roughly the distance of the gunshot wound in Gannett's case.
So let's talk forensically just a little bit about what
was found with Gannon's body. There was bloody bedding and
a pillow, so his comforter and the sheets that were
(23:40):
found with Gannon's body a lot of blood on there.
Is it likely the blood came from him being wrapped
up in those items or do you or is there
a way to know? Yeah, actually there is kind of
a way to know, Jackie, And I'm glad you brought
this up because it's you know, in these horrible cases,
you know, as investigate is we look for the silver lining,
(24:01):
if you will, and all of these things, you have
to look past the horror of it many times to
get to the answers that science is dying to tell us. Um.
And in this particular case, if he was in fact beaten, stabbed,
and shot on the surface of these bed linens that
you're talking about, that's going to have the blood staining
(24:23):
that will be there will be more dynamic, Okay. You'll
you'll get maybe uh, a spreading of high velocity blood
staining that's left behind, say for instance, from a gunshot woman,
or when you have a beating that takes place. I'm
not saying this is a case with him, but lots
of times with a beating, Uh, you'll get kind of
a medium velocity blood staining. Okay. Then on top of that,
(24:48):
you have the dynamic of transference of blood where the
body is seeking blood. Okay. And so as you begin
to wrap or envelope the body in type of cloth,
maybe clothing that's left behind those sorts of things, that's
kind of a contacting transfer of blood, and that looks
(25:09):
completely different then say a dynamic that goes on during
the actual fatal events. So yeah, it's possible. My only
concern though, again we come back to this uh process
of decomposition, and this is kind of multilayered itself. I'll
try to keep this as brief as possible, but when
(25:32):
you're looking at this, keep in mind the blood itself
is a biological component, and blood is not just blood
and of itself. You know, you've got red blood cells,
white blood cells, you've got plasmy You've got all of
these ingredients of blood um and they're decomposing too, along
with the tissue of the body, so it's beginning to
break down. Then you've got decompositional fluid that's created from
(25:54):
the body, so that's going to compromise sustain as well.
So that's something that the police will have to content
end with. One of the fantastic things here, I think though,
that is really a real asset for the police is
the fact that he all of this evidence was actually
contained in here. So if you think about Gannon's body,
(26:17):
it was essentially cocooned and protected to a great degree.
This perpetrator did a great disservice to themselves because these
were not disposed of. And also the perpetrator may have
left things like hairs behind that came off of their head.
If that person has got a particularly kind of haircut,
if they've got a particularly kind of hair dye that's
(26:38):
left behind, or if you have a hair shaft that's intact,
they might be able to get DNA off of it.
And that's gonna be very, very difficult to explain away
(27:07):
those of us that our parents think about precious little
love year old boy in how full of life they are. Jackie,
what a wait for for this child's life to have ended,
especially when you find out that his stepmother is accused
of this murder and that she asked her teenage daughter
to stop by the store and buy supplies to help
(27:27):
Latitia Stout clean up after this murder. She asked her
daughter to stop by the store and buy carpet cleaning supplies,
baking soda, trash bags, and a few other things to
help cover up the evidence of her horrendous crime. Do
you not just want to stand up, Joe as a
forensic investigator and and tell these these perpetrators, these murderers,
(27:49):
that guys, this is not going to get rid of
the evidence of what you did. Apparently the people don't
watch true crime shows, right, And I think a lot
of it goes to the fact that they get friends,
and you know, there's a there's a bigger element here
to Jackie that's absolutely heartbreaking. It's the fact that this
individual involved this teenage girl in this I mean, let's
(28:11):
just think about that just for a second, because the facto,
you would think that the teenager would have born witness,
maybe not to the attack itself, but certainly to the aftermath.
Can you imagine how horrible it is maybe she facilitated
aiding in the cleanup at this point in time, And
then can you imagine going to the local grocery store
(28:35):
and walking down the aisle where all the detergents are
in the carpet cleaners, and you're thinking, Okay, I'm gonna
buy carpet cleaner in order to clean up the blood
of this precious little boy who I played with, are
entertained or watched TV with, or games or played games with,
(28:55):
all these sorts of things. I'm gonna buy this, and
then I'm going to go back and aid in this
clean You know, well, now and at the moment, Joe,
we do not know whether the daughter knew what had happened.
It could just be Mom called and said, hey, I
need to clean the carpets again and spilled something. So
we don't know yet whether the daughter knew what had
(29:17):
happened or if she found out once you we at home.
But I get your point. That would be an absolutely
horrible image to have in your mind. Yeah, and and
to go beyond beyond that point. You're right, you are
when you say that there's really no extent that she's
going to be able to go to UH to rid
herself of all this biological evidence. And you know, we've
(29:39):
talked about thousands of times with with Nancy Grace. Um.
We we have methodologies and forensic science to recover what
is what is in fact left behind all that remains,
if you will, when it comes to UH agents like
blum and All and blue Star and those things that
(30:00):
when these items even on a cleaned area, UM, and
sometimes these cleaned areas are not even defeated with bleach,
we can go back and apply these agents. And the
reason they work so well is if folks at home
have ever heard you know, you have iron poor blood, UM.
You know they talk about how blood is you need
(30:21):
to have high iron levels in order to have healthy
blood cells. And this sort of saying, well, that's one
of the things that luminalal uh interacts with, interacts with
the metallic agents that are contained or it interacts with
the metallic elements that are contained within blood, things like iron,
things like copper, for instance. So that's what we're actually
(30:43):
looking for, and that's what gives it this luminescence when
it contacts it. And you know, one of the most
striking things when you're on a crime scene and I've
I've actually been on a couple that had happened years
and years ago. Jackie and somebody either rolled over on
it or we had suspicion that something that happened in
that environment ten years a decade later, you can go in,
(31:03):
you can actually apply an agent like luminal of Blue Star,
and you turn those lights off and all of a sudden,
it just burst. It just absolutely bursts on your eyesight
and you can see this luminous in this glow that's
left behind, and it's you know, I guess waxing philosophical.
It is almost like you know, the dead are accusing
at that point time. You know, there's that old verse
(31:25):
in the Biblis says his blood cries out from the ground,
you know, and so you're you know, you can actually
see it, and it's it's quite striking. As I learned
from you, Joe Scott Morrigan, questions pop up into my mind.
Does luminal and those blood detecting agents work on animal
blood as well as human blood or do they show
(31:45):
up the same? Yeah, they will. Actually it doesn't um
you know, when when we test, when we use a
test like luminal or or blue Star, where simply trying
to determine the presence of blood, it doesn't differentiate between
(32:07):
species at that point in time. We've got a variety
of other tests which are called presumptive testing. Then you
have specific testing that you go through at the scene
to determine first off, you know, like I think there's
a castle Meyer test, which is something to say yes,
this is in fact blood, and there's another level you
go beyond that to say yes this is human versus animal.
(32:27):
And then you go beyond that when you get into
things like blood typing and all those sorts of things
until we can put a very fine point on it.
You know, nowadays where we can begin to talk about
things like DNA testing that breaks it even further down
into an elemental level, at a molecular level, so yeah,
we can differentiate. So obviously that has nothing to do
(32:48):
with this case of eleven year old again and stout.
The question just popped into my mind, as I said,
because I learned things from you. But you were talking
about being able years later to distinguish and find for
the blood to be able to show up years later.
So you're saying basically, any porous material the blood is
going to soak into and no amount of cleaning is
(33:11):
going to get it out. I suppose that there is
a certain amount of cleaning that could be done to
facilitate this, but it would require such a commitment and
knowledge and understanding on the part of the individual that
was trying to eradicate those stains um that it's almost
a herculean effort in order to do this. Generally, about
(33:32):
the best way to do it is take up that
area and burn it. But you know, I've even worked
cases where, you know, we had people that were assaulted
on carpets and the blood soaked through the base of
the carpet went down to the padding and actually wound
up on an underlying subsurface, and we were still able
to appreciate blood on the subsurface. So it's very very
(33:52):
daunting task, to say the very least. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body backsh
Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. For most of us,
the promise of a trip to the beach in Florida
brings up thoughts of the warm air, the sun beating
down on us as we lay in the sand, listening
(00:29):
to the surf, hearing the goals overhead, and just relaxing.
For eleven year old Gannon Stouch, nothing to be further
from the truth. Today, we're gonna talk about one of
the most horrific crimes in recent memory. We're gonna talk
about Againett Stouch. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is
(00:51):
body Bags back with me again Today is my good
friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of crom Stories. When Nan grace, Jackie,
what can you tell us about Gannon? Gannon Stouch lived
with his father and his stepmother, Al and Ltitia Stouch.
The dad served in the military in the National Guard
(01:14):
and was often away for training. As a matter of fact,
his father, Al was in Oklahoma Quinn Gannon died. Letitia Stouch,
the stepmother, reported the eleven year old missing. She said
that he had stayed home from school originally because he
had a stomach ache, and then she had traveled out
with him to a park later on that day, within
twenty four hours of the first nine one one call
(01:36):
reporting Gannon missing. The stories definitely did not add up.
Letitia had initially told detectives that when Gannon had gone
to the friend's house and didn't return, she could not
tell them the friend's name, address, her phone number. Then
she changed her story and said that a neighborhood construction
worker had broken into the house and raped her and
took Gannon. Then she said that she had watched Gannon
(01:58):
ride his bike and he fell off, hit his head
and then two men drove up and grabbed him and
took off. So we have conflicting stories about what happened
to Gannon. Here. It was two months before Gannon's douch's
body was found, and it was found in Florida, more
than four miles away. Gannon had been stuffed into a
suitcase and discarded. Jackie one of the most valuable bits
(02:22):
of currency. UH odd term to use, but in scientific
parlance for US and forensics is time. You know these
things that where we're trying to put these elements together
to understand what exactly happened. And when you have a
case such as Gannon's that extends out over such a
(02:42):
broad reaching spectrum of time, then that's that creates a
multiple multitude of problems for us. You begin thinking about, well,
he was last seen on January January, January, I believe,
and then he wasn't found for almost another two months.
(03:03):
And so when you're trying to put things together, you
have to think about things like, uh, decompositional changes, what
what's going to impact those findings, what's going to impact, uh,
the way we view the way the body is initially
found as opposed to where we think that, say, a
fatal event occurred. And keep in mind we're talking about
(03:26):
a distance of four hundred miles, Jackie. That's a long
ways from Colorado to Florida. It is a long way,
and you know, Joe, one of the things that was
important to note here in this case, the position in
Florida is not where Gannon was originally dumped. We have
a location back in Colorado where police say Gannon's body
(03:50):
was left for at least a month and then retrieved
and transported to Florida. So I'm just going to open
the field up to you and let you go, because
I have to imagine that the you know, the different
locations the time. There are so many things that has
to be considered here. Yeah, there are, and there are
multiple elements involving here. They are going to impact changes
(04:14):
in the body specifically. And can you know, for an
unseasoned investigator, UM can throw you off very very quickly
if you're not really attuned to the environment in which
the body is found in. And let me just give
you a brief example, and this will kind of paint
paint the picture. If you think about let's just think
about soil. Okay, think about what the soil is probably
(04:37):
like out in Colorado. You might have a mix of
a lot of decomposed uh say, for instance, plant life
from that particular area. Think about evergreen trees, uh, combined
with maybe a clay base in the in the soil.
And then he is from Colorado. He apparently died there.
(04:58):
And then you think about where he was finally deposited.
That's in Florida, Jackie. What's the soil like in Florida. Well,
I can tell you this. The one of the major
components in Florida UM is going to be sand. So
you're not necessarily gonna find those two elements in the
same place, and so that's a distinctive thing that we
look for in forensic science. Soil science is actually a
(05:20):
big part of what we referred to as trace evidence.
It's a particular section you can go to at the
crime lab and they study these sorts of things that
in and of itself is major when you're trying to
put together what actually happened. But just like we can
look at soil, there are multiple elements here in Gannon's case.
(05:42):
Chief among this is going to be uh for instance,
that he was in apparently apparently multiple locations after death.
He died, we believe, at least according to what the
police are saying, in Colorado, in El Paso County, antially
in that home. How do I know that, Well, his
(06:04):
stepmother allegedly had his step sister go out and purchase
items like bleach, garbage bags, these sorts of things that
you would use to facilitate cleaning in an environment. We
know that his body was there, he certainly lived there
for a while. And then you know how you mentioned
that he was held in one location for about a month.
(06:25):
That place was Douglas County, Colorado. That's where the police
think that the initial dump site was. But you know what,
there's a scene in between that. You know what it is.
It's the vehicle that was used to initially transport his body.
So moving from his home, his body being moved from
his home in El Paso County to Douglas County, that's
(06:46):
another scene. Even though it's on wheels, you have elements
of his body that might be contained in that vehicle
from that first trip. Now, once he gets deposited in
Douglas County, follow me here in Douglas County, Colorado. For
some reason, you know the old adage they talk about
how the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime.
Maybe an individual is getting uncomfortable at this moment time.
(07:08):
Maybe they're thinking, we need to put more distance physical
distance between ourselves and a body. So what happens His
body is then gathered back up. And keep in mind,
when you gather his body back up at that scene
in Colorado, that initial dump site, you're picking up all
of the debris that was underlying that body, anything that
attached itself to his body, or clothing that he may
(07:30):
have been wearing. You know what, Jackie, that's going with him.
Then you place it back in the car. And now
now you've got to make this fourteen hundred mile journey
from rural Colorado all the way down to the panhandle
of Florida. Now, how are you going to do that? Well, apparently,
from what the police are telling us, he wasn't placed
(07:53):
in in plastic or I think that he was probably
wrapped in something. But it's not like they just simply
put him into a garbage act. It's not what they did.
They actually took a suitcase, folded this little boy's body
up and stuffed it in there. And then they transporting
all these miles and so now you've got the influence
(08:14):
of the suitcase that comes into play with his body.
Anything is contained within that suitcase, it's going to transfer
to his body. Anything that was on his body is
going to transfer to that suitcase. And now they finally
make it to Florida and they get to this bridge,
and my thought is, whoever did this pulled over, maybe
on the side of that bridge and simply threw him
off into this waterway. And it's really tragic, uh, but
(08:38):
it's it's a good thing in the end, because his
body didn't float out to sea. It was essentially lodged
there on the bank where the where the local workers
actually wound up funding. So we know that Letitia rented
a van in February and drove from Colorado to Pensacola, Florida,
and she stayed at a hotel that was about three
(08:59):
and a half miles from where Gainnon's body was later found.
You talked about the forensics possibly blood from the first
time that Gainnon's body was transported. So now we've got
a different vehicle that could possibly have evidence in it
if we followed this line of evidence where she rented
a vehicle most likely since she's in Florida to dispose
(09:21):
of the body. So we're gonna find what soil from
Colorado that you're not necessarily going to find in Florida,
bug larva from Colorado that you're not going to find
in Florida. I mean, what are those kinds of differences, Joe,
Listen to you, Jack, you're talking about bug laarva. There
you go. You're absolutely right. You're on the right track here,
because you know, we talked about things like I'm gonna
(09:43):
break this down. We talk about things like flora and fauna.
We learned this in basic biology, and see it's very
simple This isn't rocket science. This applies to forensics. It's
some of the stuff that we look from for from
a biological standpoint, Flora meaning any kind of plant life,
and and then fauna meaning any kind of of insect
(10:04):
life or anything just thinking anything with a heartbeat, okay,
And that can extend all the way through the animal kingdom.
So the bug life, for instance, the insect life for instance,
in Colorado is going to vary greatly from that that
is found down in Florida, as we well know. I mean,
how many of us have been to the heat of
Florida and you're slapping mosquitoes and gnats and everything else
(10:25):
down there, and we definitely know that insects are in
that area, but there in Colorado as well. So you're
talking about specific species that in dwell Colorado. Well, if
they have potentially laid their eggs on our adjacent to
Gann's body, which I would assume that they would have,
if we go with this idea that he was down
for a month there, those are gonna be transported with him,
(10:49):
unless you know the perpetrator went to a great deal
of trouble to clean all of this way. I can't
imagine that that was done, there would still be some
remnant of that left behind. And then when you get
down to floor Porida, you're going to have this um
deposition of eggs that come from the local uh insect
life down there at that point in time. So you're really,
(11:10):
you know, the nature is actually painting painting a picture
for us here. It's actually creating kind of a breadcrumb trail,
if you will, relative to this journey that he's taken.
So that's very very specific, and I think that going
back to what you had mentioned, the rental of the van,
you know, this expands this out even further because if
if the vehicle used the first time to deposit his body,
(11:34):
will say the family vehicle, that's going to have unique
evidence from the home to that deposition spot there where
his body was laid out there in Douglas County. Then
if you use the van to transport the body from
Douglas County to Florida, which we can assume that's that's
what happened. Since a van was rented, then that's gonna
(11:56):
be a separate collection of evidence. You're not gonna have
this over layer commingling of evidence. So that actually works
in the favor of the police as they're investigating this case.
And it's not just the police, Jackie, because what do
we have going on here? Well, anytime you're involved in
perpetrating a felony like this, UM, you now call upon
(12:19):
the resources, you invoke the resources of the FBI. How
many states are there between Colorado and Florida. You're talking
about the transportation of a body, a deceased child, from
one state all the way to the other side of
the United States. So now you're going to call the
full force of the FBI and all of their resources.
And I can tell you at their lab they have
(12:41):
one of the most complete, instead of the art crime
labs in the world. So let me jump in here,
and I want to make one more point back to
the bug Larva. UM. You've also got the temperature differences
between Colorado because it's February, snows in Colorado in February,
and Florida where it's still fairly temperate weather. And there's
(13:05):
all manner of things that work here, Jackie. When you
begin to think about that, UM, when a body is
kept in an environment that is very cold, UM, you
can actually retard the process of decomposition. That means to
slow it down greatly, kind of blunted, if you will,
(13:27):
to the point where the body is not going to
remain perfectly preserved, but as opposed to being in a
tropical subtropical environment like Florida in that region, remember we're
up near Pensacola on the on the north end of Florida.
Decomposition because of heat is going to accelerate in that area.
(13:48):
So imagine, if you will, as Gannon's body is being
transported from Colorado to Florida, the temperature is creeping upward
as you're leaving Colorado, presuming she took a southward route,
all the while his body, this process of decomposition is
accelerating all the way. And if we factor in the
(14:10):
fact that he is contained within the small space of
this of this suitcase, that's going to accelerate it as well,
because all of the moisture that is being given off
by the body is self contained in there, and it's
going to again further enhance the speed at which the
body is decomposing. I cannot even begin to imagine Jackie,
(14:36):
the foul odor that would have been exuding from that
suitcase as she's transporting it down the road, making her
way very slowly. Remember she stopped and spent the night
along the way. When she would have gotten back into
that van the next morning, perhaps prior to dumping his body.
The smell could have knocked you over. I think any
(15:15):
of us, you know, faced with the proposition of of
having to transport a body over this great country that
we have, over this expansive country, would give any of
us kind of pause for a moment. But can you
actually imagine Jackie transporting the body of a child which
(15:36):
you were given specific charge over, this child that you
had been told to take care of, to to feed,
that you've been entrusted with, and all the while he's
decomposing in the back of the vehicle. No, I can't, Joe,
And especially once it has discovered what happened at this
eleven year old. We now know that Gannon Stouch was
(16:00):
shot in the jaw with a nine millimeter and stabbed
at least eighteen times before he died. So it is
no wonder that the stepmother, Latitia Stouch, sent her daughter
Gannon step sister to go buy cleaning supplies. You know,
this is quite literally a bloody mess. When you're talking
(16:24):
about the volume of when you're talking about the level
of trauma that Gannon endured. Let's let me break this
standing first off. Let me and and this makes it
even more horrific, Jackie. Yes, he was shot in the
jaw and that's uh. Some people are shaking their heads
over that right now. I know, but that that might
(16:45):
have been the most merciful thing that had happened to
him throughout this entire event. Because when you had mentioned
there were eighteen stab wounds, I want to make a
slight correction here because it's not just eighteen stab wounds.
Let's call them sharp for injuries, which is in forensics
is generally the term that we use that can either
imply a stab wound you think about a knife being
(17:08):
buried into somebody, or it can be a slice or
an incised wound. And in Gannon's case, according to some
of the preliminary information that has come out from the police,
Gannon had an awareness Jackie, he had an awareness that
he was being attacked. So that means that more than likely,
(17:28):
more than likely, he tried to fight this person off
with all of his might. He had defensive wounds on
his hands, on his wrists, on his arms, and then
whoever did this to him buried a knife multiple times
into his body, in his chest and in his back,
(17:50):
and you know, it really gives you pause to think about,
you know, what kind of person would do this to
an eleven year old little boy over and over again.
And to make it even worse, there's apparently evidence that
he sustained some blunt force trauma to the head. So
that means that all the while he's being stabbed, he's
(18:11):
also being beaten. And then finally, like I said, mercifully,
he was shot at that point in time. The interesting
thing about this is the following and this is a
key piece of evidence. This gunshot wound that he sustained
from this nine millimeter, which is a semi automatic handgun.
(18:32):
The actual projectile was recovered from his body, and I
sometimes I'm I'm amazed at, you know, the evidence that
we can recover, particularly when you think about all of
these locations that this little boy's body was in and
moved multiple times in a state of decomposition. They still
were able to recover this round, and this round is
going to be very critical in this case finally comes
(18:56):
to trial. And let me tell you why that sound
that they recovered from Gannon's body down in Florida. When
they did the autopsy, that round was actually matched up
to a nine millimeter pistol that they found in the
home Afghan a stepmother. That's a big piece of information
(19:18):
because that actually winds up giving you what's referred to
as a ballistic fingerprint. Those markings that are left on
that bullet. You know, from the traveling down that barrel,
that rifle barrel, this lead projectile traveling down this rifle
barrel leaves these marks on the exterior of this projectile
(19:39):
and it buries into the tissue. Now those markings can
be matched up to the barrel of this weapon and
it doesn't even matter. And this is a fantastic thing
about about ballistic study. You can have a nine millimeter
pistol that's made by the same company we won't say
as specific manufacturer, we'll just call it company A by
(20:00):
company A. It can be the same model, it can
come off with the same production line. But guess what,
each one of the ballistic markings in those barrels made
at the same time are going to be unique to
that weapon, and at the end of the day, that
might be the piece of evidence that winds up getting
a conviction. In this case, in relation to a Gannon
(20:21):
being shot, we know that the crime scene was very bloody.
Is there a difference or how much difference does distance
make in the amount of blood and where it shows
up in the room? Are you going to have a
larger dispersal if you're shot from farther away as opposed
to up close? I think that one of the key
(20:43):
things here. We we do know this. I can tell
you this when you have what's referred to as a
hard contact or press contact gunshot wound, which means that
the perpetrator would take the end of the barrel, the
muzzle of the weapon and tightly press it against the skin. Uh.
Not only are you going to have the projectile entering
(21:05):
the body and that obviously creates a tremendous amount of pressure,
but you're gonna have this expansion of gas, and many
times associated with that, there will be a tremendous amount
of blood that issues forth from that. Now more than likely,
if if he was shot in the jaw, Uh, you're
not gonna have the same amount of blood that you
(21:26):
might have for instance, if if he was if if
he was shot directly into his skull into the cranium
itself with a tightly held weapon. But what we can tell,
and you're talking about range here, we can tell the
distance of the muzzle, the end of the muzzle from
(21:47):
the actual injury itself. Now, this could be compromised a
little bit, just so folks at home understand, don't get
too excited. It can be compromised as a result of
the decomposition. Let's remember this precious little boy was down
for two months after death, Jackie. So the biological process
that are going on in decomposition can compromise the pathologist
(22:09):
ability to determine range of fire. Now, if if this
was a tightly held weapon, and let's say, if folks
will find kind of this area below your ear where
your job begins to descend, that's a rather firm piece
of bone. If this weapon was applied to the jaw
in a very tight press contact area, are are entrance area,
(22:33):
you can actually have a soit deposition on the bone
itself that will travel pass through the skin and kind
of uh tattoo this area around the bone as well.
So that might still be there. Um, And the saving
grace here is that I would imagine in Gannon's case,
they would have taken microscopic sections of the injury, which
(22:55):
happens very commonly at autopsy with gunshot ones, and they'll
look at them microscopically to get an idea as to
the dispersal of say, unpurned gunpowder in the skin that
might still be embedded there. You could still appreciate it,
probably a microscopic level, and then you begin to measure
that out and you kind of it gets kind of
(23:16):
complicated this point, but you kind of do a ratio
relative to the disbursement of the powder grains that are
left behind, and that will give you an idea as
to roughly the distance of the gunshot wound in Gannett's case.
So let's talk forensically just a little bit about what
was found with Gannon's body. There was bloody bedding and
a pillow, so his comforter and the sheets that were
(23:40):
found with Gannon's body a lot of blood on there.
Is it likely the blood came from him being wrapped
up in those items or do you or is there
a way to know? Yeah, actually there is kind of
a way to know, Jackie, And I'm glad you brought
this up because it's you know, in these horrible cases,
you know, as investigate is we look for the silver lining,
(24:01):
if you will, and all of these things, you have
to look past the horror of it many times to
get to the answers that science is dying to tell us. Um.
And in this particular case, if he was in fact beaten, stabbed,
and shot on the surface of these bed linens that
you're talking about, that's going to have the blood staining
(24:23):
that will be there will be more dynamic, Okay. You'll
you'll get maybe uh, a spreading of high velocity blood
staining that's left behind, say for instance, from a gunshot woman,
or when you have a beating that takes place. I'm
not saying this is a case with him, but lots
of times with a beating, Uh, you'll get kind of
a medium velocity blood staining. Okay. Then on top of that,
(24:48):
you have the dynamic of transference of blood where the
body is seeking blood. Okay. And so as you begin
to wrap or envelope the body in type of cloth,
maybe clothing that's left behind those sorts of things, that's
kind of a contacting transfer of blood, and that looks
(25:09):
completely different then say a dynamic that goes on during
the actual fatal events. So yeah, it's possible. My only
concern though, again we come back to this uh process
of decomposition, and this is kind of multilayered itself. I'll
try to keep this as brief as possible, but when
(25:32):
you're looking at this, keep in mind the blood itself
is a biological component, and blood is not just blood
and of itself. You know, you've got red blood cells,
white blood cells, you've got plasmy You've got all of
these ingredients of blood um and they're decomposing too, along
with the tissue of the body, so it's beginning to
break down. Then you've got decompositional fluid that's created from
(25:54):
the body, so that's going to compromise sustain as well.
So that's something that the police will have to content
end with. One of the fantastic things here, I think though,
that is really a real asset for the police is
the fact that he all of this evidence was actually
contained in here. So if you think about Gannon's body,
(26:17):
it was essentially cocooned and protected to a great degree.
This perpetrator did a great disservice to themselves because these
were not disposed of. And also the perpetrator may have
left things like hairs behind that came off of their head.
If that person has got a particularly kind of haircut,
if they've got a particularly kind of hair dye that's
(26:38):
left behind, or if you have a hair shaft that's intact,
they might be able to get DNA off of it.
And that's gonna be very, very difficult to explain away
(27:07):
those of us that our parents think about precious little
love year old boy in how full of life they are. Jackie,
what a wait for for this child's life to have ended,
especially when you find out that his stepmother is accused
of this murder and that she asked her teenage daughter
to stop by the store and buy supplies to help
(27:27):
Latitia Stout clean up after this murder. She asked her
daughter to stop by the store and buy carpet cleaning supplies,
baking soda, trash bags, and a few other things to
help cover up the evidence of her horrendous crime. Do
you not just want to stand up, Joe as a
forensic investigator and and tell these these perpetrators, these murderers,
(27:49):
that guys, this is not going to get rid of
the evidence of what you did. Apparently the people don't
watch true crime shows, right, And I think a lot
of it goes to the fact that they get friends,
and you know, there's a there's a bigger element here
to Jackie that's absolutely heartbreaking. It's the fact that this
individual involved this teenage girl in this I mean, let's
(28:11):
just think about that just for a second, because the facto,
you would think that the teenager would have born witness,
maybe not to the attack itself, but certainly to the aftermath.
Can you imagine how horrible it is maybe she facilitated
aiding in the cleanup at this point in time, And
then can you imagine going to the local grocery store
(28:35):
and walking down the aisle where all the detergents are
in the carpet cleaners, and you're thinking, Okay, I'm gonna
buy carpet cleaner in order to clean up the blood
of this precious little boy who I played with, are
entertained or watched TV with, or games or played games with,
(28:55):
all these sorts of things. I'm gonna buy this, and
then I'm going to go back and aid in this
clean You know, well, now and at the moment, Joe,
we do not know whether the daughter knew what had happened.
It could just be Mom called and said, hey, I
need to clean the carpets again and spilled something. So
we don't know yet whether the daughter knew what had
(29:17):
happened or if she found out once you we at home.
But I get your point. That would be an absolutely
horrible image to have in your mind. Yeah, and and
to go beyond beyond that point. You're right, you are
when you say that there's really no extent that she's
going to be able to go to UH to rid
herself of all this biological evidence. And you know, we've
(29:39):
talked about thousands of times with with Nancy Grace. Um.
We we have methodologies and forensic science to recover what
is what is in fact left behind all that remains,
if you will, when it comes to UH agents like
blum and All and blue Star and those things that
(30:00):
when these items even on a cleaned area, UM, and
sometimes these cleaned areas are not even defeated with bleach,
we can go back and apply these agents. And the
reason they work so well is if folks at home
have ever heard you know, you have iron poor blood, UM.
You know they talk about how blood is you need
(30:21):
to have high iron levels in order to have healthy
blood cells. And this sort of saying, well, that's one
of the things that luminalal uh interacts with, interacts with
the metallic agents that are contained or it interacts with
the metallic elements that are contained within blood, things like iron,
things like copper, for instance. So that's what we're actually
(30:43):
looking for, and that's what gives it this luminescence when
it contacts it. And you know, one of the most
striking things when you're on a crime scene and I've
I've actually been on a couple that had happened years
and years ago. Jackie and somebody either rolled over on
it or we had suspicion that something that happened in
that environment ten years a decade later, you can go in,
(31:03):
you can actually apply an agent like luminal of Blue Star,
and you turn those lights off and all of a sudden,
it just burst. It just absolutely bursts on your eyesight
and you can see this luminous in this glow that's
left behind, and it's you know, I guess waxing philosophical.
It is almost like you know, the dead are accusing
at that point time. You know, there's that old verse
(31:25):
in the Biblis says his blood cries out from the ground,
you know, and so you're you know, you can actually
see it, and it's it's quite striking. As I learned
from you, Joe Scott Morrigan, questions pop up into my mind.
Does luminal and those blood detecting agents work on animal
blood as well as human blood or do they show
(31:45):
up the same? Yeah, they will. Actually it doesn't um
you know, when when we test, when we use a
test like luminal or or blue Star, where simply trying
to determine the presence of blood, it doesn't differentiate between
(32:07):
species at that point in time. We've got a variety
of other tests which are called presumptive testing. Then you
have specific testing that you go through at the scene
to determine first off, you know, like I think there's
a castle Meyer test, which is something to say yes,
this is in fact blood, and there's another level you
go beyond that to say yes this is human versus animal.
(32:27):
And then you go beyond that when you get into
things like blood typing and all those sorts of things
until we can put a very fine point on it.
You know, nowadays where we can begin to talk about
things like DNA testing that breaks it even further down
into an elemental level, at a molecular level, so yeah,
we can differentiate. So obviously that has nothing to do
(32:48):
with this case of eleven year old again and stout.
The question just popped into my mind, as I said,
because I learned things from you. But you were talking
about being able years later to distinguish and find for
the blood to be able to show up years later.
So you're saying basically, any porous material the blood is
going to soak into and no amount of cleaning is
(33:11):
going to get it out. I suppose that there is
a certain amount of cleaning that could be done to
facilitate this, but it would require such a commitment and
knowledge and understanding on the part of the individual that
was trying to eradicate those stains um that it's almost
a herculean effort in order to do this. Generally, about
(33:32):
the best way to do it is take up that
area and burn it. But you know, I've even worked
cases where, you know, we had people that were assaulted
on carpets and the blood soaked through the base of
the carpet went down to the padding and actually wound
up on an underlying subsurface, and we were still able
to appreciate blood on the subsurface. So it's very very
(33:52):
daunting task, to say the very least. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body backsh
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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