Hidden Hormone Disruptors with Dr. Anthony Jay

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Discover the silent threats lurking in our everyday environment as Dr. Anthony Jay, author of "Estrogeneration," unveils the startling connection between common chemicals and hormonal imbalances. Grapple with the unsettling truth about a generation's fertility at risk, the rise in depression and cancer rates, and how these issues could haunt our genetic legacy. This episode is a stark revelation about the artificial estrogenics that are quietly reshaping our health landscape, challenging you to consider not just what's on your plate, but what's in the products you use daily.

Listen as we unravel the controversial impacts of hormonal disruptors beyond the lab—how they're influencing our water supply, cultural constructs of masculinity, and even children's play. Dr. Jay shares compelling evidence on the hidden hormonal havoc wrought by substances like atrazine, and the inadequacies of our current medical approaches to these complex challenges. From personal anecdotes to rigorous scientific discussion, learn why it's crucial to scrutinize everything from toy preferences to testosterone levels, and why the current standards for health might be misleading us all.

This conversation is an urgent call to rethink our approach to healthcare. From the myths surrounding cholesterol and heart disease to the implications of hormonal contraception, we're prompted to question the status quo. Dr. Jay's insights into phytoestrogens and the importance of informed genetic testing offer practical strategies for navigating a world rife with endocrine disruptors. Arm yourself with the knowledge and foresight to protect your health and that of future generations against the insidious influence of hormone disruptors.

You can learn more about Dr. Jay's work and his genetic consulting services at https://www.ajconsultingcompany.com/

This episode is sponsored by Beam Minerals, Use code JEN20 for 20% off by visiting the Jen's Favorite Things link at https://www.jenmayo.com

This episode is made possible by Beam Minerals. Check out the Jen’s Favorite Things tab at JenMayo.com for a code for 20% off of your purchase of Beam Minerals or save even more on auto ship. https://jenmayo.com/jens-favorite-things/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dr Anthony Jay joins us for a fascinating
conversation on why so manypeople's hormones have gone
haywire and even why male frogsare turning into female frogs.
Spoiler alert don't drink thewater.
Dr Jay earned his PhD inbiochemistry from Boston
University School of Medicine,where he researched fats,
hormones and cholesterol.
He spent several years at theMayo Clinic researching stem

(00:23):
cells, epigenetics and infraredlight, and he's the best-selling
author of Estrogeneration, abook that explains in great
detail the hormone havoc that isbeing caused by estrogen-like
substances in our environmentand in our food and water
supplies.
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Welcome to the podcast, dr J.
Thanks for having me an autoship.

(01:47):
Welcome to the podcast, Dr J.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, of course.
So I'll just start out.
I read, actually, Dr ShanaSwan's book Countdown a number
of years ago.
I think I found that one rightafter it came out, and then I
found your book a little bitlater, which are both excellent
reads for our listeners, andwe're going to talk a lot about
your book.
Estrogeneration Love the bookcover, by the way.

(02:09):
I used to be a graphic designer, so very creative.
What was so interesting when Ifirst read her book and I don't
remember a ton about it becauseit was a while ago but the
statistic of and you can correctme if I'm getting this wrong,
but I believe it was a malesperm count is down 50% in the

(02:31):
last 40 years.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, oh sure, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Why should we be concerned about that?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, Well, and it's not just the count, it's the
quality.
And remember there's epigeneticchanges that a lot of people
aren't aware of, right when theytalk about just these numbers,
like depression rates are up andyou know, fertility is down and
on and on.
Breast cancer is increased.
Like breast cancer is up 250%since 1980, right.

(03:02):
Right, but the real underlyingproblem and, by the way, these
are all connected to all ofthese things Depression is
connected here.
Fertility, sperm counts,testosterone declines, right.
That's why I'm bringing them up.
But the reason the epigeneticsis so important is because that
means it gets passed to futuregenerations.

(03:23):
In fact, it gets amplified infuture generations, which not a
lot of people talk about,because as soon as you say
epigenetics, you lose a lot ofpeople because that's a
technical term and and it's hardto understand.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
But, um, that's kind of the culmination of my book.
That's where I end the booktalking about, because you know,
of course I talk about how toget rid of these plastics in
your environment, thesefragrance chemicals and these
sunscreen chemicals and allthese different things.
But you have to understand theproblem first.
Right, you have to understandthe severity of the problem.
Um, and you know, the analogythat I use for epigenetics to

(04:03):
explain it to people is musicalnotes.
So like, if you have a song,right, with a melody, the melody
, the main line, is what peoplesing, like happy birthday or
something like that, or Mary hada little lamb, or whatever.
You could give that musicalnotes to somebody, the sheet
music to somebody else, and theycould play that same song.
Yeah, that's your genetics,that's like your DNA.

(04:23):
You pass that to somebody else,you pass that along.
It doesn't really change, butthe epigenetics is the marks on
top of the DNA and that's likehow you still have the same
melody, but now you've got otherinstruments or you've got more
notes on top of that, you've gotharmony and that also gets
passed on.
Right, but that changes.
You can change that a lot andvery quickly.

(04:44):
You can change your epigeneticswithin a few weeks.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
And that's the biggest problem with these
artificial estrogen chemicalsthat I write about.
In fact, I wrote about them waybefore Shauna Swan and Shauna
Swan.
I like her book too, but sheonly focuses on phthalates,
right.
She only focuses on plasticchemicals, and not just plastics
, but just the phthalates in theplastics, right?
She only focuses on plasticchemicals, and not just plastics
, but just the phthalates in theplastics.
And there's BPA, right, there'sbisphenols, and there's BPS and

(05:10):
there's BPF and there's BPAFand there's all these other
bisphenols, and they act just asbad as phthalates.
So, and then you throw in theoxybenzones and the artificial
red dyes that act like estrogen,all the things right, and then
you have a more complete pictureof what's going on, because the
problem with these chemicalsnumber one is they act like
estrogen in your body, they messwith your estrogen because
they're artificial.

(05:30):
But number two and even you maynot know this because I didn't
write about this in my book andit's pretty deep level but most
hormones, when they're in oursystem, they bind to receptors
on the outside of cells, and I'msure you know that.
But they stick to the outsideof a cell and then that signal
something inside the cell.
It triggers like a responseinside the cell right.

(05:53):
But sex hormones are actuallyunique in that they go through
the cell membrane.
They go inside the cell, whichis kind of unique.
But not only that, they don'tjust go into the cells, these
sex hormones like estrogen,progesterone, dhea, pregnenolone
, whatever testosterone they goinside the cell.
But they actually go further.
They go inside our nucleus.

(06:13):
Right, the nucleus has its ownmembrane.
You know, like the cells have amembrane, it's like a
pillowcase around the outside ofa cell.
It's called cell membrane.
The DNA actually also has acell membrane called the nuclear
membrane.
It's basically anotherpillowcase, right?

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
And so, if you're studying genetics, it's another
layer of complexity to get thatDNA away from that cell membrane
because, again, it's doublyprotected and almost nothing
goes into the DNA, right Likealmost nothing goes through that
pillowcase.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
But sex hormones do.
So sex hormones go into thecell, which is unique, but they
go into the DNA, which is evenmore unique, and they can mess
with your epigenetics in a goodway.
Usually, it's a good thing,right.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
And that causes multiple generations of change.
So if you have decreasedfertility with these animal
research studies that I'vepersonally done and a lot of
people do like, my favoritescientist on this topic is
Michael Skinner.
He's out at WashingtonUniversity.
He studies like he raises like5,000 mice at any given time,
like crazy amounts of money hespends on his research and he

(07:20):
doesn't just study the effectsof BPA or atrazine or birth
control or whatever.
He studies themulti-generational effects and
he's given TED Talks on this andstuff.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
And that's when it gets crazy, right?
Because, yes, fertility isdeclining.
To go back to your originalpoint, sperm counts are
declining, the quality is goingdown.
But not only that when youexpose animals to these
chemicals, you see the nextgeneration getting even worse
and the generation after that.
He's showing four generationsout.
There's no reason to go pastfour generations because, number

(07:51):
one, it gets expensive andnumber two, you know, if you
just do three generations, youcould argue that you're exposing
the mother plus the fetus, plusthe stem cells of the fetus, so
there's three generations thatcould be exposed all in one shot
.
Right, research study.
But if you do four generationsand you see impacts, four
generations out, well, thatmeans you're exposed.

(08:13):
You know you're going waybeyond a direct exposure and
you're passing things healthproblems on through epigenetics.
It's complicated, but it'sreally important because it's a
real problem epigenetics.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
It's complicated but it's really important because
it's a real problem.
Is that more complicated for amother carrying a female fetus
who's already got thedevelopment of all the eggs
she's going?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
to have for her lifetime.
Yeah, because if a mother isexposed to BPA, her eggs are
also being exposed, and sothat's messing up like that's a
direct exposure.
Are also being exposed, and sothat's messing up like that's a
direct exposure.
Yeah, yeah, and again, thosechemicals can go into the DNA
and alter the epigenetic marks,right, like, think of it as the
musical notes you know, on topof the melody.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, yeah, and I've I've heard epigenetics to kind
of referred to as like geneticsloads the gun and epigenetics
pulls the trigger kind ofscenario.
Sure, and that's something youcan change, but at the same time
that also gets passed on to thefuture generations.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
That's the definition of epigenetic.
If it's, there's differenttypes of epigenetic marks, like
there's actual physical changeson your DNA, but some of them
are called assimilations andsome are acetylations and some
are ubiquitin nations and someare methylations.
There's all these differenttypes of marks, but what makes
them epigenetic marks is theyget passed on.
That's like the definition ofepigenetic.

(09:34):
Okay, so if it, you knowthere's plenty of things that
change your health, um, like, ifyou have more insulin or less
insulin, or more blood sugar,less blood sugar, whatever.
But that's not an epigeneticchange because it's not being
passed on.
The definition of epigeneticsit has to be able to be passed
on.
So it's kind of like geneticsin that sense.

(09:54):
Right, it's not as powerful asgenetics, so it doesn't get
passed on forever.
Like DNA is really hard tochange.
Dna it's very stable, it's veryhard to change it.
You can have mutations and Ihave a DNA consulting company
and I look at people's DNA,right, but epigenetics is much
more transient.
It's changeable, it's quickerto change, it's quicker to quote

(10:17):
, unquote, mutate.
You know what I mean.
So these chemicals that are notfound in nature, these
artificial estrogen chemicalswhich our ancestors were never
exposed to, right, for thousandsof years.
They're very dramatic in termsof the epigenetic changes and
that's kind of where I took thebook is to say, okay, these are
the health problems and they getpassed on to future generations

(10:40):
, so it's super important.
Here's what you do about it.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, for anybody who's listening and
has not heard about thisphenomenon before, can you kind
of explain?
You know, one of the morealarming things that you know
was maybe a better visualexample for people to picture in
their head was this phenomenonthat was happening with frogs.

(11:05):
Can you explain that?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
For sure.
So there's a chemical calledatrazine.
It's the second most usedherbicide in North America.
Glyphosate is the number oneused herbicide.
That's Roundup, and both ofthese should be illegal more or
less.
But they're both used and, bythe way, they both act like
estrogen.
They both disrupt your hormones.

(11:28):
I didn't write about glyphosatemuch in my book because it
wasn't very clear when I wrotemy book and I didn't quite, I
wasn't sold on it at that point.
Now it's more clear.
Now it's.
Now I'm convinced that evenglyphosate messes with your
hormones.
But it's a tricky.
I know it's a little bit of atangent, but glyphosate, it
doesn't look like estrogen.
So it's hard for me to get myhead around.

(11:48):
Like, why is it?
The chemical is made fromglycine.
Right, it's a glyphosate.
It's like glycine, which is anamino acid, but it chelates
metals, it binds to metals andso, uh, it makes sense.
Now it's more clear veryrecently, because if you have
multiple glyphosate moleculesthey stick to like a magnesium

(12:08):
or zinc or calcium.
So they they bind to metals andyou can have multiple
glyphosates around one metal.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
And then that starts to look like estrogen.
So now I can see it right, ittook me a lot of years to kind
of figure out.
Why does that act like estrogen?
But atrazine for sure acts likeestrogen, right?
Yeah, the second most usedherbicide.
And, by the way, atrazine istotally illegal in Europe.
Okay, a lot of these chemicalsare.
You know, when you go throughthe list and I did this with my
top 10 list of estrogens in mybook I kind of compared Europe
law, european laws, to Americanlaws and it's just like illegal

(12:39):
in Europe, super common inAmerica.
Illegal in Europe, super commonin America, illegal in Europe,
super common in America.
It just goes on and on downthat list.
And even even China hasstricter regulations on these
estrogen chemicals than we havein America.
So this isn't something thatI'm just trying to be alarmist
about.
Other countries are picking upon this.
So atrazine zero is allowed inthe drinking water in Europe and

(13:00):
in America.
3,000 nanograms per liter isallowed in the drinking water,
3000.
Now here's the frogs.
If you take a frog and in yourlittle habitat or whatever,
wherever you're raising yourfrog, and you have 200 nanograms
per liter of atrazine in thatwater, the male frogs turn to
females.

(13:21):
Wow not 3000.
So we're legally allowed tohave 3,000 in our drinking water
.
And, by the way, there's a lotof cities in America, especially
out in the country wherethere's a lot of farming,
there's a lot of cities that areover 3,000 in the drinking
water and this is well known.
But I think the governmentsafety limits are ridiculous on
this one and on a lot of thesethings, because they're just

(13:42):
paying attention to toxicity,right, they're looking at
chemicals and they're saying howmuch BPA does it take to kill a
cell, right?
Or how much atrazine does ittake to kill a cell?
And they have these toxicologyassays where they look to see
how much it takes to kill a cell.
It takes a lot of BPA to kill acell.

(14:03):
It takes a lot of atrazine tokill a cell.
So they, they assume they're nottoxic, right, but it screws up
your hormones, you see, and soit causes a lot of major health
problems, but it doesn't lookbad from a toxicology
perspective.
So most government officials,like most of their standards,
are set up for toxicology andmost scientists will say, oh,
it's not really toxic, you,you're fine, you can drink

(14:25):
glyphosate or you can drink out.
Yeah, it's not going to kill you.
You know it doesn't kill youbut it totally wrecks your
hormones and that's my problemwith it is it's it's not being
recognized for the problem thatit is in our culture because of
the way our scientific setup,you know, scientific system is
set up and then there's alwaysthe pharmaceutical companies

(14:46):
that it's sick care system andthat's really, it's not really a
healthcare system in Americaand all these other problems
that amplify the root cause ofthe problem that we're.
We've got chemicals that areincreasing breast cancer in
women and early puberty andgirls and, uh, testosterone
crashing in men and malefeminization.
Scientists literally use theterm male feminization when they
study atrazine and and that'swhere that's the first study

(15:10):
that indicated that was thefrogs yeah, and I think we can
look at culturally uh, trying tobe sensitive I mean, you see it
and I look at.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
I look at the presentation of masculinity when
I was a young child versus whatI'm seeing now in the culture,
and I've been a single woman fora few years, so this may be
more in the forefront for methan it is for my married
friends, but there's a definiteshift that has happened in terms

(15:45):
of just the qualities and I.
I think I've heard you talkabout how the lower testosterone
levels are associated withapathy as well.
Um, like what you know from asocietal and cultural level,
whether what's going on here isintentional or just an accident.

(16:06):
What implications you know,besides just fertility and sex
drive, does lowering a man'stestosterone level do to how our
society and culture is shaped?

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, a lot, right.
I mean, that's the problem withsex hormones is they act on a
lot of different things in yourbody because they go into your
DNA so they alter your.
You know, they literally alterthe way that your DNA is decoded
and expressed into proteins.
So, for example, a lot of menthat have low testosterone have
depression, right.

(16:45):
A lot of men with lowtestosterone have weak bones or
bone density kind of likeosteoporosis for women, right.
When women's hormones go tohell after menopause, a lot of
times their bone density goes tohell.
And then, you know, the doctorsdo they want to put you on
prescription drugs and fakebisphosphonates and stuff that
have like almost no impact andthey never tell you about the
hormones.
It's like, look, yeah, justbecause you can't make money on
these hormones, because youcan't patent a natural hormone,

(17:09):
doesn't mean they're not amazingand valuable.
Toy preferences change, you know, when they do studies on
children that have exposures tothese chemicals like phthalates.
Boys tend to like guns and theylike trucks and they like noisy
, fast moving things.
Um, just, naturally it's.
It's well researched and sureyou could find some girls that

(17:31):
like that stuff too, right, andyou always find some boys that
don't?
There's always a bell curvewhere the averages you know
there's going to be the vastmajority that like certain
things and and whatever but toypreferences shift as they're
exposed to more phthalates, evenat a young age, right and again
, this is published research, soit's changing the brain

(17:52):
preferences.
Apathy is the most common.
Even in animal studies you findapathy where not only do they
have sexual apathy, they don't.
They're not interested inrelationships and things or
pursuing females, they're justinterested in nothing.
Right, right, not, they're notinterested like the things or
pursuing females.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
They're just interested in nothing Right?

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Not, they're not interested, like the rats.
You know how they have thoselittle wheels.
The rats run on stuff.
They're not even interested inthat.
Yeah, so apathy is beyond justpursuing relationships, it's
just it, it, it.
It bleeds into all kinds ofother aspects of life for men
when they have low testosteroneand their sex hormones are all
disrupted.
Um so yeah, that's a realproblem.

(18:29):
And of course, women havetestosterone too.
You know, one of the problemswith menopause is not just your
estrogen progesterone go down,but also your testosterone
usually goes down, and it's asuper important hormone for
healing and recovery.
And because a lot of women, youknow, they know they're
exercising, they're doing great,they're staying healthy, going
to the gym, and then theirhormones tank after menopause
and they're like well, I can'tgo to the gym because if I do,

(18:51):
my body is so destroyed for liketwo weeks that if I go to the
gym like twice a week, I don'trecover and then I'm just even
more sore and then I go threetimes a week.
Whatever, they can't, you know,do some of the training that
they were used to doing whentheir hormones were good.
What's the solution?
You just fix the hormones,right?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
But you see that in younger men and women, if their
hormones are screwed up too, itmight not be as amplified as
menopause, but maybe it is.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Sometimes it is even that amplified.
You know, I'll give my my ownexample here.
I'm in my forties now, andbefore I went through kind of a
radical lifestyle and dietchange of my own.
I had more hot flashes in mytwenties than I've ever had in
my forties.
And I think that certainly sayssomething about what was going

(19:39):
on there and the epigenetics, asyou mentioned what you're
putting into your body, one ofthe best quotes.
I use this all the time.
There was a doctor he was adentist actually named Dr Hal
Huggins, and I think, if I'mquoting him correctly, he said

(20:00):
something like you can't toweloff while you're standing in the
shower, and I think even likethe functional medicine approach
to health at this point hasbecome so much about adding
supplements and adding thingswithout taking a better look at
taking things away that arenegatively impacting us.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, especially.
Yeah, I mean that's usually thebigger, uh, the bigger levers
to pull right, like when peopleare gluten sensitive.
You get rid of gluten, theyfeel amazing, or whatever.
Sugar, yeah, in our culture.
I think that's a good strategy,right?
It's certainly something peopleneed to be aware of and think
about, especially because moderndietitians are not trained that

(20:42):
way.
They're basically trainedcalorie as a calorie.
It's especially worth mentioningfor your audience too, because
probably a lot of them are womenand a lot of them have been
told that calorie counting isthe most important thing.
Calories are how you lose it.
They did a study with atrazine.
It's one of my favorite studiesbecause they had two groups of
rats and the reason you want touse animals for a study like

(21:04):
this, because if you do thiswith people, they cheat and they
don't tell you what they'reeating and they you know
whatever.
So you can't really trust thedata as much.
But they had two groups of ratsand they gave them the exact
same calories, both groups.
Everything was exactly the same, except one group.
They put low dose atrazine intheir drinking water just to

(21:28):
mimic what Americans are exposedto, and that group got fat.
That group of rats samecalories is obese.
The other group was lean andtotally normal looking, and
that's exactly what happens whenyou mess up your hormones.
Sure, like you know, you cancount calories in certain
situations and it helps you gainweight if you're a scrawny guy,
or it can help you lose weightor whatever.
But people get tired ofcounting calories after six

(21:50):
months and they don't do it longterm anyways.
But that's how dietitians arebeing trained.
They're basically being trainedto say, like it's your fault if
you're overweight, you're notcounting your calories, you're
eating too many calories.
Right, eat more lettuce orwhatever calories.
Right, eat more lettuce orwhatever.
And it doesn't work.
You know, a lot of people knowthis, and sure it works
sometimes for people that havegood metabolisms and they're not
being exposed to tons ofchemicals and their hormones are

(22:11):
amazing.
So then they think it works foreverybody because it works for
them.
Well, you know, you have toconsider the hormones and it's.
It's tricky with hormonesbecause blood tests don't tell
you everything.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
There's.
That's why I look at genetics,right, Because some people have
more receptors than other people, so their blood has the same
amount of hormones, but thenthey make more receptors or less
receptors that pick up thehormones, you see, and it's kind
of like having your volumeturned down on your hormones or
whatever.
So there's there's morecomplexity than just blaming it
on a blood test, and mostdoctors don't even do that.

(22:46):
They don't even check hormonelevels on the blood test.
It's like pulling teeth tryingto get them to check your
testosterone if you're like aman below age 50.
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I think all young people youknow in your early 20s or even
earlier, should get theirhormones tested, just so they
have a baseline to know what itis for when they get older.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
I agree yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent, andthat includes the thyroid too,
because you know the thyroid isanother one.
A lot of people are low energy.
Their thyroid hormones it'susually low energy is either sex
hormones or thyroid hormonesright, yeah or both.
So, yeah, we're usually bothyeah, right, yeah, and so

(23:30):
there's a lot, a lot going onwith people's issues there, and
most of the problems for thyroidcome from inflammation or lack
of iodine.
And inflammation, of course, isdiverse.
Some people, you know,inflammation comes because
they're smoking cigarettes,right, and some people
inflammation is gluten or dairyor nightshades or whatever.
Everybody's a little differenton that, but that's the goal,

(23:51):
you know find that, find what'striggering the inflammation, and
uh, and then you, the you fixthe problem instead of just
throwing drugs at it andcovering something up right.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Can you explain too, like on the male side of things,
how does introducing theseestrogenic, artificial estrogen
compounds to the body, how,what's the mechanism that that
screws up the testosteronelevels?

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it does it with three different ways.
Um, number one it lowered.
It physically lowers if, if youhave more estrogen chemicals in
your body, it lowers your totaltestosterone.
Um, so that's the first thing.
Secondly, it lowers your freetestosterone.
That's a different blood testthat they do.
There's a difference betweentotal, how much and this is men

(24:41):
and women.
There's a difference betweenhow much total testosterone is
in your system and how much isavailable to your body.
That's called your freetestosterone and, uh, estrogen,
estrogenic chemicals, but we'reboth of those, which is bad, so
it's like doubly bad.
But then, not only that, theylower, they block binding to the
receptor.
So, like hormones, don't, theycan't do anything in your body

(25:05):
until they stick to a receptor.
Yeah, it's kind of like.
The analogy I use is hockey,because I played hockey back in
the day, and if you have a puckon the ice, that doesn't mean
you're scoring any goals.
It just means there, you have apuck on the ice, but if you put
it in the net, that's a goalthat actually means something to
your team and the goal is likethe receptor.
That's a goal that actuallymeans something to your team and

(25:26):
the goal is like the receptor,meaning like you've got to get
it into the goal to do it, tohave an actual impact on the
game.
Now let's say you have 20 puckson the ice, your testosterone
is super high or your hormonesare really high.
If you don't have any goal,like if you've got a piece of
plywood in front of the goal,like you block the goal, you
block the receptor.
It doesn't matter how manypucks, how many players, how
many shots on net.
If you're blocking the goalyou're in trouble, right.

(25:47):
And these estrogen chemicalsblock the goal.
They actually block binding tothe receptor.
And that's the most insidiousproblem, because your
testosterone might even lookgood.
It usually doesn't, usually itgoes down, but it might look
okay.
And, by the way, they've loweredthe normal range, and I'm sure
you know this.
Like back in the 80s theaverage male was 500 on their
testosterone and that they'velowered the normal range, and
I'm sure you know this.
Like back in the 80s, theaverage male was 500 on their
testosterone and that used to bethe normal range.

(26:09):
They used to say the normalrange is 500 to 1500.
Right, and now it's 300 to 1000.
They've lowered the high endand they've lowered the large,
and sometimes it's even 250 to athousand or 250 to 900.
These blood test companies arejust accommodating sick people.
They've done this with bloodsugar too.

(26:30):
They've increased becauseeverybody's eating way too much
sugar and carbs.
They've increased the range forblood sugar to accommodate
people that are over 90, whichis absurd, and they've lowered
the vitamin d range down to 30,because the average american is
30.
And that's absurd becausehunter-gathering tribes we have
studies and blood tests fromhunter-gathering tribal

(26:50):
communities and they're allbetween 70 and 100 on their
vitamin D.
I've looked at the blood workright.
So we're screwing with all ourblood tests, right?

Speaker 1 (27:00):
We've normalized dysfunction, so we're just
adjusting the tests toaccommodate how dysfunctional I
know we are in our environmentand but it's.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's crazy to people like us, jen, but there's so
many people that don't know this.
It's astonishing to me, but,like because I do it every day.
I look at people's blood workevery day literally, and and
people need to hear about thisbecause their doctor's probably
telling them their cholesterolis too high but everything else
looks good and that's probablytheir cholesterol is totally

(27:33):
fine and everything else isterrible.
Right Usually the actual storybehind that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I had um, I had Sally Fallon Morrell on the show to
specifically talk aboutcholesterol and sex hormones a
while back, which that was agreat discussion, but can you
talk a little bit about yourthoughts on cholesterol and its
impact on sex hormones?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
For sure.
And let me tell you a Sallystory really quick.
First Let me tell you a.
Sally story really quick first,yeah, she gave a talk at a
school that a friend of minetaught at, like a college that a
friend of mine was teaching at,and it was you know however
many, like a thousand people orwhatever, were in this audience.
And this woman had a son whohad anaphylactic shock if he had

(28:24):
milk, right, like a real severereaction.
And sally said, well, justdrink raw milk.
And then she moved on andeverybody's like whoa wait, what
like?
And everybody thought she wascompletely insane.
Yeah, of course.
Right, like the whole place gotquiet and they all like, yeah,
they all in their heads theywere all like, oh, she's full of
shit.
And now here's the crazy thingthey actually brought this woman
who asked that question,actually brought a doctor to

(28:47):
their house with an EpiPen.
They were ready to, you know,test this out, which is crazy.
I wouldn't have done thispersonally, right?

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Because if I had a kid who was literally going into
shock if they drank milk, I'dsay okay, let's just let's just
not do nothing.
But they actually brought rawmilk in and this is a true story
and they gave the kid raw milk.
He was totally fine.
Oh my gosh, and all thosepeople in the audience, they
didn't know that, right, likethey never followed up on that
story and realized like, hey,she was right, even though it's

(29:15):
a little risky to to saysomething like that but, um, it
goes to show you how muchthey've, you know, altered the
proteins and milk and the casein, and all this to make them more
inflammatory for people thathave immune system issues or
dairy issues.
Yeah, so that's my Sally storythat a lot of people don't
realize.
There's probably a lot of otherstories like that too, but

(29:35):
that's just the one that's mostinteresting now, oh yeah, oh
yeah.
And I totally forgot the cluster.
It's okay, no.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
And we could go on a total tangent on raw milk too.
I actually drive across statelines to go to a co-op that
sells raw milk.
They're able to sell it in anactual store.
However, they have to label it.
As for pets, yeah, for animals.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, so stupid.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
As if you're going gonna go to an expensive health
food store to buy milk for yourcat crazy yeah no, I know
exactly well.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Um, I get it from a farmer every Monday.
Today is the day I go to thefarm and pick it up.
It's on the way to my kids.
Uh, archery and stuff.
My kids are all involved inarchery yeah uh, but but yeah,
we, we use that and uh, and somepeople still have inflammation
from that.
So it's not for everybody, butright, but my goodness, it's

(30:34):
certainly better.
Uh, it's better.
You know, it's less tamperedwith, it's just less, yeah, and
there's.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
There's more a2 cows in that industry too, and she
for sure is the expert on thatone.
But the Holstein cows versusthe Jersey cows too.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
There's such a difference in just going from
one breed or whatever, to theother money and profit and the
government subsidizes thesepeople to pursue it that way and
think about it that way.
So, of course, like if you'regrowing broccoli and your crop
fails, you're in real troublebecause there's no subsidies and

(31:12):
no backup and no whatever.
But if you're growing soybeans,it's like you make more money.
If your crop fails, if you gethail damage, you get more money.
It's kind of like getting thehail damage on your roof.
If you have insurance, theycome in and give you a new roof
and it's like, hey, I'm glad Igot some hail damage.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
But man, if you have broccoli or some actual health,
healthy plants that aren'tsprayed with whatever nonsense,
you're not getting any supportfrom our government.
That's a real problem.
Yeah, but um, the cholesterol.
I did a five-year PhD at BostonUniversity Medical School on
the topic of cholesterol and sexhormones, so definitely in my

(31:47):
wheelhouse to talk aboutcholesterol and there's a lot of
corruption.
In fact, there's morecorruption on the topic of
cholesterol than any other topic, in my opinion in the medical
system in America, unfortunately.
And cholesterol is good for you,it's a building block for all
your sex hormones.
That's the definition of a sexhormone, right?
It's?
a hormone that's made fromcholesterol, right, and some

(32:08):
people haven't even heard ofmost of this, like, there's a
lot of sex hormones, likepregnenolone or whatever people
haven't even heard of.
It's not just estrogen, it'snot just testosterone, right,
there's a lot of sex.
So, if you're, if you're veganand your cholesterol is super
low and vegans usually do havesuper low cholesterol doctors
are correct about that their sexhormones are usually super low

(32:31):
and imbalanced because theirbuilding blocks are not present.
They don't have them.
But the saddest thing isthere's a lot of really good
research and I've done YouTubevideos on this too, by the way,
if people want to just go andwatch the YouTube videos where I
go through some of the studies.
But, um, there's good researchshowing the optimal range for
your cholesterol is one, 80 totwo 80, your total cholesterol

(32:54):
one, 80 to two 80 is the optimalrange for the average person.
If you're in that range, you'redoing great, not just okay,
it's not too high.
Doctors will tell you it's toohigh when you get above 200,
right, but in reality, that'sactually starting to get into
the more optimal range, right?
And um, that's a study based on12 million people, 12.8 million
people, right, these aren'ttiny studies that they do.

(33:15):
In fact that's another one thatthe, the medical system has
altered the blood test on uh inthis and you can ask I've done
this, I've looked.
I've asked chat gpt what was thenormal range for cholesterol in
1970?
And it'll be like 300 and below.
What about 1980?
300?

(33:35):
My dad is a medical doctor,he's retired but he said back in
the 80s and even in the early90s, the normal range for
cholesterol, your totalcholesterol, it used to be 300
and below yeah they dropped itall the way to 200 and below
overnight as soon as theyinvented statin has nothing to
do with research studies andsome data, it's just complete

(33:55):
corruption.
and there's so many people thatbuy into it.
Um, and then, of course, whathappens is the Google algorithms
and the YouTube algorithmspromote those people because
they fit the standard medicalsystem model right.
They fit into the standardmedical advice and the
professional medical systemBecause remember, here's the
problem If you have the samecurriculum for every medical

(34:19):
doctor in the whole country andyou teach them that cholesterol
is bad if it's above 200, thenthey all say the same thing and
it sounds like a conspiracy.
If you go up against that andyou say, look, it used to be 300
and all the studies show 300 istotally fine.
In fact, have you heard of DaveFeldman?

Speaker 1 (34:34):
No.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, feldman, uh, I had him on my YouTube channel
way back like a long time ago,but he's become a little bit
more popular recently because he, he, uh, he's published a study
.
He's publishing a study, um,with 548 people.
So he's he collected 500 peopleand their cholesterol is over

(34:56):
500.
Right, yup, and these arepeople that eat keto.
So they're eating lots of fats,lots of red meat, hardly any
plants, honestly.
So they're eating lots of fats,lots of red meat, hardly any
plants, honestly.
And they're exercising.
And, like, he specificallylooked for people that are,
quote-unquote, healthy in theirlifestyle, right, like actual
exercising, getting out in thesun, going for walks, and over
500.
And he hasn't published thewhole study yet and that's

(35:18):
probably why you haven't heardof it yet, because once he
published and I know the data,because I know dave, but, um, he
has published a case report.
So you have to look up, likedave feldman case report.
Familial hyper it's called hypercholesterolemia is what they
call it.
Cholesterol is crazy high, um,in fact, let me just I'll pull

(35:40):
it up, I'll pull up the studyand on my computer and I'll just
read you the title yeah, peopleare going to want to look this
up.
Probably.
It's calledhypercholesterolemia.
Lean mass hyper responderphenotype presents in the
context of a low saturated fat,carbohydrate restricted diet.
Long, long title.
But here's what they foundright and again.

(36:01):
At least people can pause andrewind and have to go through
that three or four times tocatch that whole title.
But the point is, um, he hasn'tpublished all 500 people but
he's.
He's taken a case report inthat study and just published
one of the guys because theyhave the data completed and, uh,
his, he, they've, they'vefollowed these people for two

(36:22):
years.
John, two years and this guyhis total cholesterol has been
over 500 for two years.
Jen, two years.
And this guy his totalcholesterol has been over 500
for two years.
At the beginning of the studyhe had zero plaque in his
arteries.
They do a CT angiogram and theyhave the.
Literally the guy who is thebest in the country at doing CT
angiograms is doing them forthis study and that's basically

(36:42):
a way of measuring plaque in thearteries, right?
So they can measure and see ifthey have any plaque in their
arteries.
And this guy had zero at thestart, even though his
cholesterol is 500, he's stillgot zero.
Two years later, still nodetectable plaque.
That's the conclusion of thatstudy.
Two years is cholesterol isover 500, zero plaque in his
arteries.
Why is that?
It's because he doesn't haveinflammation, right?

(37:02):
Inflammation is always the rootcause of plaque in people's
arteries.
Always, every single time.
Yeah, um.
So if you have, if you smokecigarettes and you damage your
arteries, yeah, you're going tohave plaque in your arteries
from the inflammation, right?
And, by the way, cholesterol iswhat makes up the plaque, right
?
So the doctors are correct whenthey tell you that, like,
plaques are made up ofcholesterol, so that they're

(37:24):
just incorrect when they blameit on cholesterol and they think
cholesterol is bad because ofthat.
It's like blaming firefightersfor fires, right?
it's like yeah firefighters arealways there when there's a fire
.
That doesn't mean they'recausing fires right cholesterol
is always there.
When there's plaque in people'sarteries doesn't mean it's
causing plaque, and people it'slike usually smoking cigarettes
or eating junk food with allthese nasty chemicals that we're

(37:45):
talking about or it's you knowwhatever.
Everybody's different, likesome people have food
sensitivities that are differentthan other people, but they're
causing inflammation thatdamages arteries, that causes
plaque in the arteries.
And then what does the doctordo?
He blames cholesterol.
That's just how he's trained.
And now what they're doing,unfortunately, is there.
Can you still hear me?
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, I bumped something.
But what they're doing nowbecause the cholesterol thing
has become so obviouslynonsensical like the doctors,
even even if they pay halfattention, they know that like
yeah, cholesterol is not a verygood blood test they changed it
to LDL, like 10 years ago, whereit's like, oh, but let's check
your LDL versus your HDL LDL.
Like 10 years ago where it'slike, oh, but let's check your

(38:26):
LDL versus your HDL.
But now even that's become veryobvious.
Like, yeah, that doesn't.
The research studies don'tsupport that idea.
At all.
You can have crazy high LDL andyou're totally fine.
Happens all the time.
And you can have super low LDL,by the way, and if you smoke,
cigarettes and things, you haveall kinds of plaque in your
arteries, right?
Or if you have diabetes andsuper low cholesterol, you still
have plaque in your arteries.
It's all about inflammation,because blood sugar can cause
inflammation.
If you have enough sugar inyour blood, that triggers

(38:47):
inflammation.
So it's always inflammation.
It's just like what's theinflammation?
And now what they're doing Jen,and you've probably heard this
now the new craze and it's verynew, but the new craze is ApoB,
no-transcript, get you onstatins.

(39:11):
And people are saying, yeah, no, I'm not going to do that.
And the doctor's like, well,let's do a little bit more blood
testing and see, right, andwhat they basically are doing is
they're just playing a shellgame where they're checking
something that sounds moretechnical APOB, a-p-o-b and it
sounds more complicated, moreacademic and more illustrious.

(39:34):
And then people are like, oh, Iguess maybe it is high, maybe
he has followed up on it.
You know what I mean.
It just gives them anotherlevel of excuses to prescribe
more statins when they don'treally need to.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, and I don't think people realize when you're
under more stress your bodyneeds more cholesterol.
I personally had thisexperience in a blood test.
I went through a very stressfulyear when my father died and
kind of freaked out when I gotmy cholesterol checked later in

(40:06):
the year because it was muchhigher than it had ever been
before and you know I was eatingmore healthy fats and whatnot
and I was kind of a littleconcerned.
But a year later checked itagain, still eating the same
high healthy fat diet and it wasback down into, you know, the
under 200 range that it wasnormally in.
But when your body's under morestress it needs more

(40:30):
cholesterol.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
And when you get sick your cholesterol goes up
because LDL actually helps fightviruses and bacteria infections
and your triglycerides go uptoo.
A lot of people don't realize,like if you train really really
hard in the gym and then you gothe next day and you check your
cholesterol, it'll be reallyhigh because your trigs go up
from training.
So I recommend don't check yourblood test after a hard

(40:54):
training session the day after.
Always kind of take it easy theday before you do a blood test,
just so you don't get a weirdreading.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Because what's the point of doing a blood test if
you're getting weird readingsthat you can't trust?
You know Exactly exactly.
And with cholesterol too.
I've kind of heard the analogyof it being kind of like spackle
for your arteries.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
So if the arteries are damaged, yeah, then your
body's going.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
It's actually doing you a favor until it becomes
problematic.
But you know, if you, if youdon't get rid of the
inflammation, your body is goingto require that to fill up the
holes that are in your arteries.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
And you can reverse it.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
By the way, people like professional doctors are
trained to tell people youcannot reverse plaque, because
there are people that go out andthey do the CT angiogram and
they get their plaques measuredand they have plaque in their
their arteries and it freaksthem out.
Now, again, I always recommenddo a DNA consult if you have a
situation like that, because itmight be lactans.
It might be something weirdthat you haven't thought of, but
, like some people, it'sferritin.
Did you know there's a genecalled superoxide dismutase,

(41:55):
sod2?
It gives you a 10 fold higherrisk of heart disease if your
ferritin is high.
Oh, interesting.
And some people havehemochromatosis genes, so their
ferritin is really high and thenthey have that gene and the
doctors just all they'refocusing on is cholesterol.
They totally ignore theferritin, and that's the real
problem.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Like you said, it's cutting up their arteries and
then their cholesterol isspackling it in there and
doctors aren't even.
There's just years I mean,they'll have three heart attacks
before they finally figure outit's the ferritin, Right, and
it's like, well, let's preventall of that, Right.
Look at your DNA code to seewhat kind of weird stuff you
might have, because I've seenpeople reverse plaques in their
arteries.
That's the unfortunate thing isstatins do not reverse plaques.

(42:36):
Like if you take thesemedications for cholesterol
lowering drugs.
They don't reverse plaque,that's for sure.
Like I agree with doctors onthat.
But you can actually reversethem.
I've seen people do it whenthey change their diet.
It's always a dietary changethat's required, but it's a
little complicated, but you canreverse plaque.
If people have plaque, there ishope.

(42:57):
It's not hopeless.
It's not like you're just goingto be stuck with that for the
rest of your life, even thoughyou get told that Doctors will
tell that to people, right,right, I mean, is this the
problem with epidemiology?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
And I think we're kind of on the cusp of some very
like giant leaps in medicine.
Once we get past the politicsthat have especially come to the
forefront in the last fouryears, I think we're at like a
point where what we can do withAI parsing data that clinicians
are contributing to rather than,you know, the gold standard,

(43:33):
has kind of been thesedouble-blind placebo clinical
trial type studies.
But we now have the ability tocollect data and use it in a
more meaningful way, directlyfrom clinical experience, rather
than trying to replicate allthis stuff in a lab.
What effect do you think?

(43:55):
You know the way epidemiologyhas been used up till this point
?
Certainly.
How is that?
How is that throwing everybodyinto one bucket and expecting
everybody to play by the sameset of rules when they're, you
know, feasibly in differentsports even?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, everybody's genes are different.
I mean, sometimes I tell peopleto go vegan if they have
legitimate hypercholesterolemiabecause that does lower
cholesterol, you know, but thoseare super rare genes.
And then some people I tellthem to go carnivore because of
other weird genes.
That's complicated, but butyeah, um, epidemiology is total
nonsense.
It's done nothing but hurt theindustry in the diet, in the

(44:37):
diet space, because you know,they just muddy up the waters
one week it's eggs are good, thenext week eggs are bad the next
week.
It's just so absurd.
Um, and they have this healthyuser bias situation where, if
people are paying attention totheir health and they go vegan
because they think it's healthy,they get healthier generally
because now they're exercisingand now they're doing all the

(44:58):
and now they're getting rid ofthe doritos and the mountain dew
they were doing, and then theyblame it on red meat and stuff.
Like just total nonsense.
Yeah, which is super, superfrustrating.
But what's really interestingwith AI because I've been
messing with chat GTP a lotlately just to see what it says
about different things- yeah.
You can go on chat GPT 4.0 andask it, do you have access to

(45:22):
PubMed?
And it'll say no, like it doesnot have access to the medical
journals because they're behindpaywalls and they've
intentionally programmed it soit can't even get into those
medical articles.
Why?
Because if you have somethinglike chat GPT that digs through
all that stuff, it's going tostart saying, like the vegan
thing is bullshit and like a lotof this stuff is manipulated,

(45:44):
and so they actually keep it outof there, right now at least,
and I hope they don't.
I hope they change this in thenear future.
But what ChatGPT is dependenton right now is the Internet and
the American DiabetesAssociation, the CDC and all
these bullshit organizations.
The Diabetes Association istelling people to eat waffles

(46:06):
and you know, and just put lesswhipped cream on it or something
like like.
It's like hey, people havediabetes.
Why are you recommendingwaffles, right?
I mean, that's just a big blastof carbs.
Um, not to mention, just eatingbreakfast period for a lot of
people is an absurd idea.
If they have diabetes, right,they should be intermittent
fasting, and.
But the point is that's howthey've manipulated the

(46:29):
narrative so far with these AIsis they?
they only hook them up to theinternet and the internet has to
just rely on interpretations ofstudies, not the actual studies
, which I think is sketchy,because I look at the actual
stuff, Like one of the things Ido with my YouTube videos is I
just go through actual studies.
I try and stay away frompeople's interpretations of the

(46:50):
studies and like, well, theyjust let me just go directly to
the studies and pick those apartand uh and put those out wild.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
My mother.
Actually we're kind of on thecholesterol tangent here.
My mother had a stroke aboutsix weeks ago and it's pure
insanity when you're in thehospital and you see the food
that they're feeding to people.
And then I actually I got in anargument with the doctor, um,
when he wanted to put her onstatins and I asked him.
I asked if I could see what the, the NNT or the number needed

(47:32):
to treat statins were, and the,the look on his face, um, was
priceless.
He obviously doesn't get askedthat very often but, um, the
number, you number you need totreat people, total to see a
positive impact for one personis like something like one in 80

(47:52):
.
You have to give the medicationto 80 people before you see it
benefit one person.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
But then 60 of them have side effects.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Right, it's right.
They don't include that, butjust the the whole.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
They're serving margarine in the hospital I know
, I know an apple sauce everyapple sauce, apple juice, the
sugar, sugar, sugar, yeah, sugar, plenty of sugar.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
And so, after the fact, um, blue cook, blue cross,
blue shield, uh, as a serviceto you, uh, when you've had a
stroke, they will send you meals, healthy meals to your home
that are in plastic that you putin the microwave to heat up oh
my god, of course, yeah, ofcourse we'll have seed oil,

(48:38):
sugar, margarine again.
I mean it's.
The whole thing is justridiculous.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Mayo Clinic where I used to work, they the whole gym
.
They have like a three-storygym called the Dalk D-A-H-L-C
and it was donated to them bythe guy that invented those
weight loss shakes or whateverlike Slim Fast, and it's just
high fructose corn syrup and abunch of vitamins, that's all.

(49:03):
It's just corn.
So you're just chugging cornsyrup, right?

Speaker 1 (49:06):
yeah, and he made like a ridiculous amount of
money on that yeah, uh, similarexperience when my father was
passing away.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
He was on a feeding tube and we we asked the
nutritionist to see theingredients of the bag food that
they yeah, I shouldn't laugh, Imean, it's not even funny, but
you know, when I quit mayoclinic, you, I quit Mayo Clinic
because they were forcing peopleto get the vaccine Right and
and I did a YouTube video onthat and I complained about

(49:33):
here's why I quit Mayo Clinicand I gave a bunch of reasons
but the biggest one was they'reforcing people to get the
vaccine.
It's totally unethical to dothat for people.
But but I also included in thatvideo like hey, they've got
soda fountains at every, everystory of the mayo clinic, every
building, every level of thebuildings.
You can go in there and getyour free refills and stuff.

(49:56):
And this is a medicalinstitution that's supposedly
cutting edge and supposedlytrying to, you know, optimize
people's health's.
Not it's just a sick caresystem.
But they're always touting thisidea that it's like the number
one clinic in the world with allthese ratings that are from
whatever organizations.
But it's got soda.
Everybody agrees soda isbasically as bad as you as

(50:18):
cigarettes, right?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
And they're promoting it right.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
It's just unbelievable what's going on
with the dieticians in ourcountry and the way they're
trained.
I mean, there's plenty of themthat break free of that training
and realize oh my gosh, this isa real problem and they go in a
better direction.
But there's the conventionalsystem and the way they're
training them is making peopleworse miseducating them.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Mis-educating them?
Uh, I I've seen it even insports medicine um practices
where you go in and half of thestaff are obese.
Um, I had one experience where,uh, we were working with an
orthopedic surgeon I won'tmention the name of the hospital
, but, um, you know, we wentdownstairs at the cafeteria at
one point and he's sitting thereeating pizza and soda and he's
a very prominent surgeon oh yeahoh, trust me I worked in the

(51:11):
orthopedic surgery department.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Oh my gosh, yeah, it's unfortunately at younger
ages your body can handle a lotmore shenanigans.
So people think it's okaybecause they're 20, they,
they're 30, whatever, but it's,it's not.
And that's the wisdom of oldage.
Usually, if you get somebodywho's 60 years old, uh, or 70,
like Mark Sisson he's 70 yearsold, he goes surfing a couple

(51:36):
times a week down in Miami.
Um, people like that you cantrust them a lot more, because
it's like look, they're notblaming old age, like there's
plenty of doctors that are 50years old that are hobbling
around and their knees hurt andthey're saying, oh, it's old age
and they're blaming it.
It's not old age, it's badhabits.
You just didn't right, youdidn't express them.
It wasn't as problematic atyounger.
You got away with it at youngerages.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Right, you know, Right, yeah, Um, can you kind of
just give us a rundown, Um thebook is mostly about um the
biggest offenders, uh, in ourenvironment and our personal
care products and and foods andso forth, of these estrogenic

(52:17):
compounds um that are reallymessing with our hormones and
you know, in turn, ourexpression of chronic disease
and quality of life.
Can you give us kind of a quickrundown?
I highly recommend the book togo into deeper, deeper, you know
, take a deeper dive into thisfor anybody who's listening but

(52:38):
just kind of give us an overallview of which substances should
we, you know, keep in theforefront of our mind when we're
reading labels and choosingproducts and so forth.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean in the book.
I have a top 10 list, but Iwould suggest people focus on
their drinking water.
Don't drink liquids out ofplastics.
Don't heat liquids in plastics.
Liquids and plastics are a badcombination.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
And fragrances are the second most common source
that people are putting on theirskin and putting in their
bodies.
That are just we're justabsorbing these chemicals, um,
and then of course, the diet andthe food, like the soy and all
these soy products, and theatrazine, like the pesticides
and herbicides they're sprayingon your food.

(53:24):
Those are all problematic.
So those are probably the topthree.
If I was going to boil it downto three things that most people
are doing every day that needto be adjusted to be healthy
plastics, fragrances and foods.
You know, pay attention topesticides and soy pesticides

(53:49):
and soy.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah, yeah, um and I.
The EWG has a skin deepdatabase.
I referenced that a lot, um,for, just you know, lay people
to go in and see which productsare safer than others and they
give it kind of a rating system,um, so that's a really
excellent resource too.
Um, you talk about birthcontrol, or where I was going to
say birth control pills, butthere's various different
delivery methods for these atthis point in time.

(54:11):
Hormonal contraception how isthat impacting women's health as
well as how that ends up in theenvironment, and what one place
I don't see any studies reallybeing done on this is, I feel
like the women who go on thesein their twenties and thirties

(54:33):
and the impact it's having ontheir hormones at menopause, I
think, is really showing up, um,in ways that aren't being well
assessed.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
True, yeah, and fertility, like future fertility
, is like I.
I talked to so many peopledoing genetic consults where
they they struggle withfertility later in their life
because they took birth controlfor a lot of years earlier in
their life.
It's made specifically to stayin your body longer, right, it's
fake estrogen, like the birth.
The most common birth controlestrogen is called ethanol

(55:04):
estradiol.
It's not estradiol, it'sethanol.
It's a synthetic version ofestrogen and it's designed by
chemists to stay in the bodylonger, so your body doesn't
break it down.
And, by the way, that ends up inthe drinking water because
people urinate this stuff outand it doesn't get filtered out
of the municipal water supply.

(55:25):
So it's worth mentioningbecause it's such a stable
compound, it doesn't end up backin the drinking water,
especially if you live in a bigcity where there's a lot of
people, so everybody's on alittle bit of birth control if
they're drinking just sink waterwithout filtering it.
So, once again, filter yourdrinking water.
But, yeah, I mean, doctors aretrained to tell people that it

(55:46):
prevents ovarian, it decreasesovarian cancer because it
declines.
It decreases ovarian cancerlike 0.5%.
It's not nothing, but it's tiny, right.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
But what's crazy is it increases breast cancer like
2%, so it's much more of a riskthan a reward.
But the way that doctors aretrained to present it is like,
oh look, it's much more of arisk than a reward.
But the way that doctors aretrained to present it is like,
oh look, it's just beneficial,as if there's no side effect.
I mean, they won't tell peoplelike, hey, this often causes
future fertility problems, itcauses depression a lot of
people, it causes weight gainthan a lot of people.
They won't tell them any ofthat stuff.

(56:19):
And and then women mess uptheir hormones and they don't
realize like, hey, this is apart of that story.
It's not the only thing.
Sometimes, sometimes it is,sometimes it's just that simple
and it's unfortunate, right,because you know, if people want
to make an informed decision,they need the information, right
, Right, and they're just notbeing presented that stuff.

(56:40):
So I'm always leery ofchemicals that are not found in
our environment.
You know, like our ancestorswere never exposed to them for
thousands of years.
I think that's a good generalprinciple I even mentioned that
in my books.
Like, if there's a chemicalyour ancestors were never
exposed to for thousands ofyears, start with skepticism,
that's where you should startwith.
It shouldn't be like, let'sassume it's okay and then we'll

(57:00):
find out later with a bunch ofstudies that it's bad.
Let's start with like it'sprobably terrible, let's do
crazy amounts of studies andthen maybe we'll we'll approve
it.
Right.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
That's where we should be with these things
right, and science, I mean, issupposed to be the study of
nature, right.
But it seems like science hasevolved in early mainstream.
Science that's been combinedwith capitalism has evolved into
, uh, trying to dominate naturerather than to learn how to work

(57:30):
with it exactly manipulatenature.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's you know and I I do have a
similar to ewg on my website.
I I have some lists of soapsthat I recommend, or bond or
detergents, things like that.
It's not super exhaustive.
I like EWG too.
Mine is just more about likewhat I use and what I personally

(57:56):
find is pretty inexpensive,also really good quality.
That's what.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
I try and do.
Okay, just to help people onthat stuff.
All right, and I'll maybe tryto link directly to that for the
show notes so people can findthat but um yeah, uh, I don't
think most people I.
I think some women are educatedenough to know that there's
several natural um estrogens inthe body and that shifts at
menopause too, um, but there'smore than one estrogen receptor.

(58:23):
And how does that play out in?

Speaker 2 (58:25):
things.
Good question, yeah, um.
So estrogen receptor alpha.
There's two of them alpha andbeta.
Estrogen receptor alpha isgenerally the bad one.
It's the troublemaker.
It's good, I mean, it'ssupposed to be there.
It's only supposed to beactivated when you're in the
womb, you know, like basicallyin utero, as an, as a fetus.

(58:46):
You need estrogen receptoralpha to help with sexual
development and but after that,later in your life, you're not
really supposed to be activatingalpha receptor.
That causes breast cancer forwomen.
It causes prostate cancer formen, things like that.
It's not something you want tobe triggering beta.
On the other hand, the otherestrogen receptor is called

(59:06):
estrogen receptor beta.
That's the good one.
That one's protective againstbreast cancer and protective
against prostate cancer.
That's good.
That's why estrogen is good foryou if it's natural.
But if it too high and thingslike that, it can start
activating alpha.
Or if you got like these fakeestrogens, like the phthalates
and the bpas and the atrazines,and then whatever oxybenzones
and the sunscreen, they activatethe alpha receptor.
They're the ones that arecausing the problems.

(59:28):
So that's.
It's important to understand thedifference, because a lot of
times there's discussion in thetopic of soy about alpha versus
beta.
A lot of vegans will tell youlike soy is good for you because
it activates the good estrogenreceptor, the beta, and it does,
but it activates the alpha also.
It activates both.
So it's a little risky.
Some people do okay with soy,some people don't, but my
opinion we got enough estrogenas it is.

(59:51):
Let's not do more.
You know, everybody agrees thatsoy acts like estrogen.
That's the irony is.
Every scientist will tell youlike yeah, of course it acts
like estrogen.
That's the irony is everyscientist will tell you like
yeah, of course it acts likeestrogen.
But then they try and tell youit's good estrogen.
Some of them some of them sayit's bad, some of them say it's
good and it's kind of hit ormiss.
But that's why it's importantto understand the difference
between alpha and beta, becausethat's the difference between

(01:00:11):
basically saying it's goodestrogen or bad estrogen yeah,
um your thoughts on fermentedsoy versus like the processed
products.
Yeah, fermenting is totally fineis that potentially why?

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
because I know japanese women, um, interesting
fact, uh, japanese women didn'teven have a word for hot flash
until recently and I think theywere just trying to fit in with
the Western culture and theycame up with one.
But is that potentially part of, I mean, is that potentially
helping them at menopause oreven before menopause, because

(01:00:47):
they're eating fermented soyproducts?

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yeah, when you have fermentation it literally breaks
down all that estrogen,compound estrogen.
In fact, it also gives you abyproduct called equal, eq, uol,
equal which you can take as asupplement.
But yeah, that's a positivething.
Equal is usually good.
It's activates on the.
It activates the beta receptor,the good receptor.
So, yeah, and fermenting isgreat.

(01:01:11):
It's one of the things ourancestors did and the other
aspect is I do consulting forpeople in asia, genetic
consulting, and they do havevery unique genes compared to
caucasians and most americansyeah um, asians do have very
unique abilities when it comesto estrogen and soy and stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
So even if it's not fermented, they do better than
most americans do okay butfermenting is the way to go yeah
, yeah, interesting, um, and canyou talk a little bit about
phytoestrogens?
Um, I know there's a few others, like flax and maybe even
lavender, that have an impactyeah, um, yeah they.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
They've done like in canada.
They did a study with over 100food items and uh, and I do have
a hard stop here coming up in afew minutes, just so you know,
but but that's my fault, I goway too.
No, that's fine, that's fine but, um, in this study with over
100 food items, um, they werejust looking at plant estrogen,

(01:02:15):
ph, phytoestrogen, how much theyhave, and like all the plants
are under 1000 units, except forsoy and flax.
Soy and flax were over 100,000units of estrogen.
Okay, so they're crazy high,but then they're separate.
They weren't measuring lavenderand cannabis in that study and
they've done separate studieswhere they show lavender and
cannabis smoke, not edibles, butfor some reason reason the

(01:02:36):
smoke acts like estrogen in ourbody and messes with your
hormones to some degree.
And lavender is still kind ofdebated.
People, yeah, people, thatresearch it will usually say, oh
yeah, it acts like estrogen,like I talked to those people.
but the studies are kind of hitor miss on that one okay um, I
just err on the side of cautionand avoid it even though though

(01:02:56):
it's anti-inflammatory, it hassome benefits.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah.
Is that potentially moreproblematic for men than women,
or is it equally an issue acrossthe board?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean probably moreproblematic for men because
they're more sensitive toestrogen.
If you load up a man with abunch of estrogen, we're very
sensitive to that, whereas womencan get away with a little bit
more right.
Cause it's a drop in the bucket,considering but cause women.
Remember, women have a naturalestrogen level of about 20 to
200, changes so dramaticallydepending on the time of the

(01:03:29):
month, whereas men are alwaysabout 20, you know it doesn't
really change.
So when you throw it, when youthrow a man from 20 to 200, it's
like a massive problem.
But when you, when you, whenyou change a woman's estrogen
from 20 to 200, that's just anormal month.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Yeah, yeah, we're still cyclical anyway.
Um, can you expand a little bit, because I know we talked about
the frogs earlier?
But, um, and you mentioned thatliquids and plastics are
especially problematic.
That liquids and plastics areespecially problematic, is that

(01:04:02):
why we see so many of theseissues show up first in marine
life?

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
before we start seeing it in mammals and humans.
Yeah, frogs absorb thesechemicals through your skin,
just like humans do, but becausethey live in water, they're
just soaking this stuff up a lotmore yeah, so yeah, that's why
they consider them like canariesin the coal mines.
Yeah, um, and and fish, the sameproblem right, they're
breathing these things intotheir gills and all this um, so

(01:04:29):
usually, yeah, you see theproblems in those animals and
those species first.
That's why I like, for example,we're when the coral reefs are
becoming extinct because ofthese sunscreen chemicals.
They make the sunscreenchemicals illegal, like in
Hawaii and Australia and all ofthese different.
A lot of countries have madeoxybenzone totally illegal and

(01:04:49):
when I published my book, thatwas the number one sunscreen
chemical.
When you go to Walmart, that'sall you see and all the labels
you know you can't find asunscreen without it.
Now you can find good sunscreenthat just has zinc and no, no
nonsense chemicals.
But it used to be, you couldn'teven find them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Do you have any otheradditional thoughts?
I know I want to make sure ourlisteners know that you do
genetic consulting and I've done23andMe and it is very
interesting to see what yourgenetic profile is showing up
and how that correlates.
Are there any specific thingsto estrogen that people can look

(01:05:28):
for in their genetic coding?

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Oh yeah, sometimes people have like 15 bad estrogen
genes.
A lot of people have zero badestrogen genes and they can
range in terms of what thatlooks like breast cancer risk or
prostate cancer risk orwhatever.
And then how do you mitigate?
Those depends on the gene andwhat the gene is doing, but
usually it's artificial estrogenavoidance.

(01:05:51):
Right, you avoid these fakeestrogens.
Some people need to be superstrict and some people don't.
But yeah, in terms of estrogen,the main gene I look at, well,
there's a whole bunch of them.
I look at all of them right, butthe most common one that I see
is called FGFR2.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a gene involved inbreaking down the alpha receptor
, and people have issues withthat, so then their alpha

(01:06:11):
receptor is higher.
It's a little complicated, but,um, that's one that people
could look at.
The problem with 23andMe is thereports are garbage, right,
they don't give you very usefulreports.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
You have to get the raw data and take it somewhere
else.
You have to use the raw data.
Yeah, and they were hackedrecently.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
I don't know if you knew about the 23andMe hack yet,
so they're not releasing theirraw data right now, so I don't
recommend 23andMe, honestly.
I would go with Ancestrycom orMyHeritage.
Myheritage is running a salefor $30 for like the last month.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Yeah, and they give you just the same raw data as
Ancestry and other companies.
It's great, it's very useful.
It's like 900,000 snips, youknow, and if people are trying
to analyze that on their own,it's pretty hard.
I have my own software.
I've written my own softwarefor this, so it's not something
that's available to you know,it's not something I just took

(01:07:04):
off of somebody else's website.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
But right, right, yeah, that's, that's how do I do
it, okay, amazing.
Um, well, this has been great.
Thank you so much for sharingyour knowledge and um definitely
recommend anybody who foundthis conversation enjoyable to
run out and get a copy ofEstrogeneration.
It's very in-depth in terms oflearning which of these chemical

(01:07:27):
substances and so forth in ourenvironment and our daily
practices that are problematicand I'm right there with you on,
you know, especially withpeople who are struggling with
weight the whole calories incalories out phenomenon should
have died in the 80s with legwarmers, but this definitely,

(01:07:50):
you know.
Something to look at is yourhormone profile and what are the
things negatively impacting it,not just how we add to it.
I'll ask you one last questionabout your thoughts on
bioidentical hormone replacementversus, like, the synthetic
stuff, and are there differentnuances for men versus women
with that?

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Oh yeah, I'm a huge fan.
If women need to replace theirhormones after menopause, I'm a
huge fan.
It works great.
You have to use thebioidentical.
You don't want to use somesynthetic birth control versions
, of course, but yeah, there's atime and place, for sure.
This whole estrogen causesbreast cancer thing is nonsense.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Just so women know.
That's complete nonsense.
And same with testosteronecausing prostate cancer complete
nonsense yeah yeah, okay, it'sbasically they've manipulated,
they've it's complicated it'sjust more corruption is what it
comes down to.
It's just it's.
It's the reason that they sayestrogen causes breast cancer is

(01:08:49):
because they want you on moreprescription drugs.
That that's as simple as itgets.
There's a harvard scientist anda medical doctor that published
a book on this called estrogenmatters, and I've done my own
research on this too, to makesure you know, like to figure
out his.
Does estrogen cause breastcancer?
Does testosterone causeprostate cancer?
The answer is no.

(01:09:09):
You want to be a nice and up.
You don't want to be overdosing, I'm right.
You don't want to be like super, super high levels that are
super physiological, above whatyour body naturally would do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
But nobody is suggesting you do that.
Just bring them up to wherethey were when you were 25.
You'll feel amazing.
It's good for your bone density, it's great for your energy.
You heal faster, men and women.
Yeah, yeah, that's, it'simportant.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and we're talking about the natural
ones, not the synthetic thingsthat we're trying to avoid.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yeah, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Well, where can people find you online or in the
land of internet world if theypeople start there, and I have a
YouTube channel, if you justsearch my name, and Instagram
and all these things too.
But ajconsultingcompanycom Notvery memorable, but it's there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Okay, okay, awesome, and I'll include those in the
show notes so people can find it.
But thank you so much forjoining us.
This was a great conversationand I learned a lot too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Thanks, appreciate it .

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
This podcast is for informational and entertainment
purposes only.
Any statements and viewsexpressed by myself or my guests
are not medical advice.
The opinions of guests aretheir own and the Body Literacy
Podcast does not endorse oraccept responsibility for
statements made by guests.
If you have a medical problem,please consult a qualified and

(01:10:42):
competent medical professional.
As always, I hope you enjoyedthis episode of the Body
Literacy Podcast.
Be sure to subscribe and signup for updates over at
genmayocom.