December 12, 2024 • 22 mins
The Changing Borders of Europe: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2400-years-of-european-history/
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (00:24):
Bonjola, Rebecca,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13 (00:25):
Angela, Amy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (00:27):
you have, oh, before I start about
you, I want to say welcome toall of our new listeners.
I don't know What's happened,but our downloads have doubled
in the last month or so.
I
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (00:43):
Well, that's lovely.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (00:44):
know.
So we now have more than fourpeople listening, which is super
exciting.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (00:49):
Well, that's lovely to whomever is
listening.
We are so glad you're here.
And if you are new to us, um,we'll say it usually at the end
of every episode, but we arehere to talk to you in real life
too.
So reach out to us.
That
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (01:03):
speak with someone in New York state
who's looking to move to Spain.
We had a conversation, a zoomconversation over the weekend.
Yeah.
It's about job prospects and,and what that possibility would
look like here, which, you know,short answer is no, that's not
going to be a thing.
Or a third country national,which Americans are.
(01:24):
And what that effectively meansfor those of you who are
confused, because in English weuse it to refer to developing
nations rather than developednations.
A third country national issomeone who is neither, you
know, of the country of origin,Spain, nor an EU citizen.
So if you're outside the EU, youare not from the country that
(01:46):
you're trying to get a job in,you are considered a third
country national.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (01:51):
is such an interesting thing to
bring up today because what's onmy mind is the renewal of my
visa.
It's already here.
The process has to begin.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (01:59):
That was quick.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (02:00):
Oh, tell me about it.
And I've got a whole lot offeelings around this.
But on the form, there's aboutsix different things you could
check in terms of.
You know why you might beapplying for this French, um,
residency visa because itchanges now to a residency one
and it's like because I'm, youknow, returning to France or
(02:21):
because I live in another EUcountry and now I work in France
or because I married an EUperson and now we live in France
or like a whole list of Europeanpossibilities and then there's
other.
Which is where I fall.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (02:35):
Yeah.
You are in the broad, nebulouscategory of other.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (02:39):
Yeah, because I'm also not a student.
That's a really common one.
Um, yeah, I'm just like theleftovers, which is hard to
navigate.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (02:51):
I can't imagine you are the first
spouse of a student to come intoFrance.
Whether or not there's acategory for it, I can't imagine
that it makes your situationextremely complicated.
Oh,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (03:06):
How do I answer that?
Agree.
Obviously, a hundred percent.
Spouse of student is clearly acommon situation.
Maybe not as common because somany students are pre married.
They're young, but clearly acommon thing.
But be that as it may, there isno Streamlining.
(03:27):
There is no partnership aspectto the visa.
I am, as far as France isconcerned, completely
independent from my husband whenit comes to applying for my
visa, which is reallysurprising.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (03:41):
In this situation, I appreciate the
misogyny in Spain that treatedme as a dependent accessory to
the breadwinner of the family.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (03:49):
Wow.
No, that wasn't us at all.
He is a student on the easiestvisa.
Like, honestly, if I was goingto give people one piece of
advice to make this as easy aspossible.
Be a student.
Get a student visa.
They really make everythingeasier.
Because one of the things I'mfacing now Is that I didn't get
(04:11):
around to applying for thesocial health insurance, which
also means I don't have a Frenchsocial security number.
That's because of the housingchoices we made.
Once you apply, it's severalmonths before you hear from
them, which is usually by mail.
And we keep changing addresses.
And for anybody who's gone backand listened to the start of
(04:31):
this podcast, I talked about themail endlessly.
Like I thought I could get likea PO box, like in the United
States
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (04:39):
That's great.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (04:39):
does not exist.
And that is now coming to biteme in the butt.
So Damien was able to apply forhis health insurance through the
whole student system, like donein a heartbeat.
I'm still mad at him about it.
I don't have that option.
So now I'm trying to renew myvisa.
They want to know what my socialsecurity number is.
(05:02):
They want to know that I'm onthe health insurance program.
If I'm not, I have to pay foranother year of private health
insurance.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (05:10):
Right.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (05:11):
Which is what most of these things end
up coming down to.
None of them really get youkicked out of the country, but
man, do they drain your bankaccount quickly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (05:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (05:22):
And for anybody who's trying to be
an entrepreneur like I am, whereyou have to still pay the bills
and make ends meet, it reallyadds to the anxiety.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (05:34):
Yeah.
I think that's another importantthing to reiterate is that the
mistakes that you make in thisprocess.
more than you anticipate, morecostly than you anticipate, and
often less foreseeable than youanticipate.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (05:57):
Yeah.
And I'm not even sure we shouldbe calling them mistakes,
despite the fact that I ambeating myself up over my
choices.
Because in many of thesesituations, there is no good.
Answer.
There is no easy answer.
My situation was one where wewere trying to make lodging
easier and we did, but it is nowhaving a unforeseen consequence
(06:21):
and the number of unforeseenconsequences, and there would
have been other unforeseenconsequences.
If I had done it the traditionalroute, getting a long term
apartment, they just wouldn'thave been with the visa.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (06:33):
Right.
Well, and, and technically youdon't have a problem with a
visa.
It sounds like you have aproblem with the fact that you
have to pay for another year ofprivate insurance.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (06:43):
I have not gotten myself into any
situation yet.
That isn't fixable with money.
Thank goodness.
Um,
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (06:51):
how annoying.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (06:52):
And how, and I, I know I'm like
really tired of the money justdraining away.
Like it doesn't even matter.
And I'm trying to like putmyself in like an abundance
mentality because I am in anokay place.
But the, the main thing that Iam feeling right now is just
that precariousness of thatuncertain future.
(07:18):
And, you know, I know you and Italk about.
America and our culture and likehow we all came to be so much.
So I'm going to go there again.
In this case, it's about thefact, and we've talked about
this before, the fact that theUnited States has only two
borders with other countries,really.
And we have been established nowfor
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (07:40):
Almost.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (07:41):
going towards 300 years.
Americans at every social level,socioeconomic level can kind of
count on consistency.
They can kind of count on whattomorrow will bring.
And when you're an entrepreneur,you reduce that reliability.
(08:02):
When you're an expat, you hugelyreduce that reliability of the
future.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (08:08):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (08:10):
I think it's more honest because I
think we're all living a littlebit under this false sense of
security, but it is a more realsense of security in the United
States.
Whereas here, you know, we justwatched the most.
Amazing map.
It was this map of the historyof European borders since about
(08:31):
400 bc.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (08:32):
Oh, my God.
Amazing.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (08:33):
will put the, I will make sure the
link to that is in the shownotes because it is absolutely,
uh, hypnotizing.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (08:40):
If you want to see instability
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (08:43):
Truly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (08:44):
Forward, watch this video.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (08:46):
So the borders, I mean, they just
have been changing constantly,especially in the last 50 to a
hundred years.
And so that makes me think aboutall the stuff we've talked about
about.
Europeans and entrepreneurshipand marketing and building
things.
And it's like, if you don't knowthat your, even your political
(09:07):
borders are going to be the samefive, 10, 15 years from now, I
think it would make you morehesitant to try and build
something big or permanent.
Because why would you put allthat energy in?
If you can't trust that you'regoing to get a return on your
investment.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (09:25):
I feel like that perfectly
summarizes how I'm feeling aboutMy own, my own business, my own
practice right now.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (09:33):
Tell us more.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (09:35):
Well, um, so in Spain you have to, if
you are, if you are, uh,autonomous or in self employed,
you have to pay taxes whether ornot you are making money.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (09:50):
I'm sorry.
What?
Okay.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (09:52):
Yeah.
It's like, it's.
It's a fucking scam.
Pardon my French.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm the one in Spain, but I usemy French way more than Rebecca
does in this podcast series.
I apologize.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (10:07):
We'd all like your salty personality,
Amy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (10:09):
don't know that that's true.
I
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (10:11):
Well, those people shouldn't be
listening.
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (10:13):
podcast is for, is for all the salty
talk.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (10:18):
What you were saying.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (10:20):
But I was saying, so, you know, you
have to pay to register and thenyou have to pay.
Like quarterly, or maybe it'seven monthly, you have to pay a
fee because you're in businessbecause you exist.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (10:34):
So, sort of like having a bank
account, in my case, inPortugal, costs a bank service
fee.
No matter how much money, howlittle money, whether I use the
account, there's a fee.
So, it's the same way.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (10:47):
analogy.
Yes.
Yes.
And.
Uh, you know, for instance, forShane, when Shane bills, he
bills the company he'scontracted for, he has to pay
taxes on that money even if hehas not yet received it, right?
So you know, when you, when youhave a fee for service, you send
an invoice.
(11:08):
Sometimes that invoice is due30, 60 days after, right?
He would have to pay on thetaxes before he even received
the money.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (11:15):
So, he has to pay when he issues the
invoice.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (11:18):
Bingo.
Not when the money comes in.
And so it's like, what the, whatthe F, like, how do you, and
then because, you know, again,I'm working effectively nine
time zones away from the bulk ofthe people that know I exist, I
am not secure that my clientbase is going to stay, um,
(11:45):
economically viable and to gothrough the bureaucratic
rigmarole of setting up thebusiness and paying all this
money when I may, you know, havehalf the income I have in three
months.
I don't even like, I just don'tknow.
That's a lot to ask.
(12:05):
Um, and I don't, you know, it'snot like, It's not like my
private practice.
It's a very, it's a part timepractice.
It's not like it's raking in alot of dough anyway.
So I have to figure out what todo about that.
Um,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (12:21):
And that's all on top of the daily
challenges of being an ex pat.
You know, the, I have to go, youknow, buy a hunk of meat and use
my, use my new language to doit.
And that's on top of whateverfamily stuff that we've got
going on.
You know, my mother broke herfoot a couple of weeks ago and
(12:42):
there's not a thing I can doaside from love her from this
far away.
It's, It's a lot to be an expat.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (12:51):
It is.
Yeah.
I know people like we've gotfriends.
Where the husband actuallyretired because the amount of
money that he would be paying intaxes working for a U.
S.
company as an autonomo wasfinancially stupid.
And it was
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (13:07):
single moms who are like, yeah, I could
go back to work, but I'm goingto have to pay more in child
care than I will make at thisjob.
It's like the math doesn't work,guys.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (13:17):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So basically he retired.
He retired like 10 or 15 yearsearly.
So, and, you know, I am in noposition to judge how another
country does business oroperates.
Because I'm I mean, I don't haveany say here, right?
(13:40):
I can leave.
Um, and I don't know enoughabout the history to really make
any kind of wise.
Discerning assessment about whatthey should do instead of what
they're already doing, but theydo have themselves in a little
bit of a pickle because wagesare low in this country.
And so even if you tax high, ifwages are low, you're still not
going to have enough for anaging population, especially
(14:02):
when people who are born andraised here and get an education
will go to Germany UK, wherethey can make more money and not
have to pay taxes to Spain, um,because, you know, Spain doesn't
have the.
Sort of be a situation that theU.
S.
has where they tax you on whatyou make, no matter where you're
(14:24):
making it.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (14:25):
Right.
And just to unpack what you justsaid there, but this is exactly
it.
It all starts with which countryyou're even going to.
And then you have to spend, Imean, you've got over a year in
Spain now.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (14:39):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (14:40):
Yeah.
You're still figuring this stuffout.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (14:42):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (14:44):
We don't listeners, we don't know
when this ends.
I'm not sure it ever does
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (14:50):
I, I, I would expect in, in five or
ten years there would be, we'dknow what to do.
Like there, you know, but then,hey, what if the laws change
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (14:59):
or the borders.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (15:01):
or the borders
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (15:02):
like anything.
And it does.
That's another aspect.
You know, everybody's so eagerto get out of the, well, not
everybody, half the populationis eager to get out of the
United States right now, or atleast they're playing with it in
their minds and their fantasies.
But there is a lot happeninghere in Europe too, and stuff
that could be happening becauseof us choices.
(15:24):
And so this isn't a sure beteither.
Nothing.
I mean, nothing is, that's thething we have to really learn to
embrace.
And that is the thing that beingan expat is helping me.
Learn to embrace is how do youlive a life that makes you
happy?
We are not constantly riddledby.
Anxiety while accepting thereality that so little is in our
(15:49):
control.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (15:50):
yeah, you know, it's interesting that
one, I, I actually kind ofdisagree with what you said
about things being ratherdependable and stable in the U.
S.
I don't think that's true for alot of people, um, and I don't
think that's more true therethan here in Europe because here
in Europe, nobody has to worryabout medical bankruptcy.
That's not on anybody's mind asa possibility.
(16:13):
That's very real for many, many,many Americans.
Um, Homelessness too, like it'smuch harder with the inherent
social structure here, and thecommunity base here, and the
support of the community here,it's much harder In a lot of
Europe to end up in a tent onthe streets than it is in the U.
(16:36):
S.
So I think the instability,particularly for those who are
living on the margins of totalpoverty.
Is very real and very chaotic.
I think that we have more, Imean, my armchair psychologist
assessment is that we have moreanxiety in the U S because we
(16:59):
are putting far too much faithin what the headlines are
telling us in any given momentand accepting it as truth, and
we have had.
A total absence of major crisison our soil for 100 years.
(17:20):
I would say the last time we hadmajor crisis on our soil was
during the Great Depression.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (17:26):
I agree with that.
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (17:28):
Because even Pearl Harbor was isolated
to Hawaii and we acted quicklyand the war never came on, you
know, it never stayed on oursoil.
Um, whereas here in Europe, Imean, shit's going down every
15, 25, 50 years, depending onwhat area of the continent
(17:48):
you're on.
So there's an inherentunderstanding, I think, because
chaotic history is closehistory, not far away
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (17:58):
Yes, exactly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (18:00):
your parents are telling you, it's
stories your grandparents aretelling you, and they are not as
quick to forget and move on,even when, as in the case of
Spain, the government has apolicy of let's just pretend
none of this ever happened.
Um, which I actually kind ofwant to segue, because it's a
(18:20):
very fascinating note,historical note, that I am just
utterly, what's the word?
Impressed by, I think I'mimpressed.
So Spain is the only countrythat I know of that has emerged
from a fascist dictatorship todemocracy without war.
(18:44):
They did not, when Franco died,they transitioned to a democracy
without extreme violence andwar.
Now, there was the Basqueseparatists, right, who had the
ETA terrorist organization, butthey were very much fringe
outliers.
The way that they did this Wasthey agreed both sides committed
(19:06):
crimes.
Both sides have been victims.
We're going to basically letthis be water under the bridge
and move forward.
So people who were in jail, um,you know, anti Francoists who
were in jail were released.
People who were pro Franco, whomurdered others, never were
(19:27):
prosecuted.
And it was kind of a, we'regoing to live and let live
because we have to, in order tomake this transition peacefully.
And they managed to make itwork.
That is not to say that there isbitter resentment on both sides.
Because people don't forget,people can't forget, but they
(19:50):
did something that I don't thinkhas ever been done before.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (19:54):
Yeah, that's remarkable.
Yeah.
And from, it's interesting causethere is, there's the government
policies and government choice,and then there is the human
individual and individual familyexperience, which are two
different things.
It takes, um, boy, there's noteven words because you can see
how impossible that would be tolive with and how impossible any
(20:18):
other choice would be to livewith.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (20:20):
exactly.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (20:21):
think you're right.
I think it does sum up whatwe're talking about here.
And then part of me wonders, isthis all because we're living
here in Europe and exploring ourexistence from this lens and
then, you know, plus theelection.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (20:35):
This is a great place to have a
midlife crisis, folks.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (20:37):
That's so true, but that's exactly my
point.
Or is it because we're, youknow, nearly 50.
And this is simply what one doesat nearly 50.
We could be in the middle of afarm in Minnesota and having the
same conversations, exist,existential conversations.
I think that there is, I thinkit's probably a combination for
(20:59):
me, that this is the time in, inthe life when one does this and
that.
It's almost like I plungedmyself into hot water.
I was like, okay, we're doingthis.
Go ahead and peel the layersaway.
Cause I'm going all in on mymidlife crisis, but it's a nice
way to do it because as hard asit is, I think it's hard no
(21:23):
matter what, when you findyourself at this place in life.
So why not make it an adventure?
It's going to be hard anyway.
Why not make it an adventure?
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (21:35):
I like that.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (21:38):
It might be a nice place to leave
this.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (21:40):
I think we should.
Let's just wrap this up.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (21:42):
Dear listeners, we wish you all a, an
adventure in your midlife orwherever you are in your life
right now, reach out to us.
I'm on Instagram at be seriouslyhappy.
And Amy is at,
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (21:54):
Vibrance Nutrition.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (21:57):
so until the next time I'll push
in.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (22:00):
Que te vaya bien.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (00:24):
Bonjola, Rebecca,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13 (00:25):
Angela, Amy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (00:27):
you have, oh, before I start about
you, I want to say welcome toall of our new listeners.
I don't know What's happened,but our downloads have doubled
in the last month or so.
I
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (00:43):
Well, that's lovely.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (00:44):
know.
So we now have more than fourpeople listening, which is super
exciting.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (00:49):
Well, that's lovely to whomever is
listening.
We are so glad you're here.
And if you are new to us, um,we'll say it usually at the end
of every episode, but we arehere to talk to you in real life
too.
So reach out to us.
That
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (01:03):
speak with someone in New York state
who's looking to move to Spain.
We had a conversation, a zoomconversation over the weekend.
Yeah.
It's about job prospects and,and what that possibility would
look like here, which, you know,short answer is no, that's not
going to be a thing.
Or a third country national,which Americans are.
(01:24):
And what that effectively meansfor those of you who are
confused, because in English weuse it to refer to developing
nations rather than developednations.
A third country national issomeone who is neither, you
know, of the country of origin,Spain, nor an EU citizen.
So if you're outside the EU, youare not from the country that
(01:46):
you're trying to get a job in,you are considered a third
country national.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (01:51):
is such an interesting thing to
bring up today because what's onmy mind is the renewal of my
visa.
It's already here.
The process has to begin.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (01:59):
That was quick.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (02:00):
Oh, tell me about it.
And I've got a whole lot offeelings around this.
But on the form, there's aboutsix different things you could
check in terms of.
You know why you might beapplying for this French, um,
residency visa because itchanges now to a residency one
and it's like because I'm, youknow, returning to France or
(02:21):
because I live in another EUcountry and now I work in France
or because I married an EUperson and now we live in France
or like a whole list of Europeanpossibilities and then there's
other.
Which is where I fall.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (02:35):
Yeah.
You are in the broad, nebulouscategory of other.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (02:39):
Yeah, because I'm also not a student.
That's a really common one.
Um, yeah, I'm just like theleftovers, which is hard to
navigate.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (02:51):
I can't imagine you are the first
spouse of a student to come intoFrance.
Whether or not there's acategory for it, I can't imagine
that it makes your situationextremely complicated.
Oh,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (03:06):
How do I answer that?
Agree.
Obviously, a hundred percent.
Spouse of student is clearly acommon situation.
Maybe not as common because somany students are pre married.
They're young, but clearly acommon thing.
But be that as it may, there isno Streamlining.
(03:27):
There is no partnership aspectto the visa.
I am, as far as France isconcerned, completely
independent from my husband whenit comes to applying for my
visa, which is reallysurprising.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (03:41):
In this situation, I appreciate the
misogyny in Spain that treatedme as a dependent accessory to
the breadwinner of the family.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (03:49):
Wow.
No, that wasn't us at all.
He is a student on the easiestvisa.
Like, honestly, if I was goingto give people one piece of
advice to make this as easy aspossible.
Be a student.
Get a student visa.
They really make everythingeasier.
Because one of the things I'mfacing now Is that I didn't get
(04:11):
around to applying for thesocial health insurance, which
also means I don't have a Frenchsocial security number.
That's because of the housingchoices we made.
Once you apply, it's severalmonths before you hear from
them, which is usually by mail.
And we keep changing addresses.
And for anybody who's gone backand listened to the start of
(04:31):
this podcast, I talked about themail endlessly.
Like I thought I could get likea PO box, like in the United
States
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (04:39):
That's great.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (04:39):
does not exist.
And that is now coming to biteme in the butt.
So Damien was able to apply forhis health insurance through the
whole student system, like donein a heartbeat.
I'm still mad at him about it.
I don't have that option.
So now I'm trying to renew myvisa.
They want to know what my socialsecurity number is.
(05:02):
They want to know that I'm onthe health insurance program.
If I'm not, I have to pay foranother year of private health
insurance.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (05:10):
Right.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (05:11):
Which is what most of these things end
up coming down to.
None of them really get youkicked out of the country, but
man, do they drain your bankaccount quickly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (05:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (05:22):
And for anybody who's trying to be
an entrepreneur like I am, whereyou have to still pay the bills
and make ends meet, it reallyadds to the anxiety.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (05:34):
Yeah.
I think that's another importantthing to reiterate is that the
mistakes that you make in thisprocess.
more than you anticipate, morecostly than you anticipate, and
often less foreseeable than youanticipate.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (05:57):
Yeah.
And I'm not even sure we shouldbe calling them mistakes,
despite the fact that I ambeating myself up over my
choices.
Because in many of thesesituations, there is no good.
Answer.
There is no easy answer.
My situation was one where wewere trying to make lodging
easier and we did, but it is nowhaving a unforeseen consequence
(06:21):
and the number of unforeseenconsequences, and there would
have been other unforeseenconsequences.
If I had done it the traditionalroute, getting a long term
apartment, they just wouldn'thave been with the visa.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (06:33):
Right.
Well, and, and technically youdon't have a problem with a
visa.
It sounds like you have aproblem with the fact that you
have to pay for another year ofprivate insurance.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (06:43):
I have not gotten myself into any
situation yet.
That isn't fixable with money.
Thank goodness.
Um,
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (06:51):
how annoying.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (06:52):
And how, and I, I know I'm like
really tired of the money justdraining away.
Like it doesn't even matter.
And I'm trying to like putmyself in like an abundance
mentality because I am in anokay place.
But the, the main thing that Iam feeling right now is just
that precariousness of thatuncertain future.
(07:18):
And, you know, I know you and Italk about.
America and our culture and likehow we all came to be so much.
So I'm going to go there again.
In this case, it's about thefact, and we've talked about
this before, the fact that theUnited States has only two
borders with other countries,really.
And we have been established nowfor
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (07:40):
Almost.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (07:41):
going towards 300 years.
Americans at every social level,socioeconomic level can kind of
count on consistency.
They can kind of count on whattomorrow will bring.
And when you're an entrepreneur,you reduce that reliability.
(08:02):
When you're an expat, you hugelyreduce that reliability of the
future.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (08:08):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (08:10):
I think it's more honest because I
think we're all living a littlebit under this false sense of
security, but it is a more realsense of security in the United
States.
Whereas here, you know, we justwatched the most.
Amazing map.
It was this map of the historyof European borders since about
(08:31):
400 bc.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (08:32):
Oh, my God.
Amazing.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (08:33):
will put the, I will make sure the
link to that is in the shownotes because it is absolutely,
uh, hypnotizing.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (08:40):
If you want to see instability
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (08:43):
Truly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (08:44):
Forward, watch this video.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (08:46):
So the borders, I mean, they just
have been changing constantly,especially in the last 50 to a
hundred years.
And so that makes me think aboutall the stuff we've talked about
about.
Europeans and entrepreneurshipand marketing and building
things.
And it's like, if you don't knowthat your, even your political
(09:07):
borders are going to be the samefive, 10, 15 years from now, I
think it would make you morehesitant to try and build
something big or permanent.
Because why would you put allthat energy in?
If you can't trust that you'regoing to get a return on your
investment.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (09:25):
I feel like that perfectly
summarizes how I'm feeling aboutMy own, my own business, my own
practice right now.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (09:33):
Tell us more.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (09:35):
Well, um, so in Spain you have to, if
you are, if you are, uh,autonomous or in self employed,
you have to pay taxes whether ornot you are making money.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (09:50):
I'm sorry.
What?
Okay.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (09:52):
Yeah.
It's like, it's.
It's a fucking scam.
Pardon my French.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm the one in Spain, but I usemy French way more than Rebecca
does in this podcast series.
I apologize.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (10:07):
We'd all like your salty personality,
Amy.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (10:09):
don't know that that's true.
I
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (10:11):
Well, those people shouldn't be
listening.
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (10:13):
podcast is for, is for all the salty
talk.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (10:18):
What you were saying.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (10:20):
But I was saying, so, you know, you
have to pay to register and thenyou have to pay.
Like quarterly, or maybe it'seven monthly, you have to pay a
fee because you're in businessbecause you exist.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (10:34):
So, sort of like having a bank
account, in my case, inPortugal, costs a bank service
fee.
No matter how much money, howlittle money, whether I use the
account, there's a fee.
So, it's the same way.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (10:47):
analogy.
Yes.
Yes.
And.
Uh, you know, for instance, forShane, when Shane bills, he
bills the company he'scontracted for, he has to pay
taxes on that money even if hehas not yet received it, right?
So you know, when you, when youhave a fee for service, you send
an invoice.
(11:08):
Sometimes that invoice is due30, 60 days after, right?
He would have to pay on thetaxes before he even received
the money.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (11:15):
So, he has to pay when he issues the
invoice.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024 (11:18):
Bingo.
Not when the money comes in.
And so it's like, what the, whatthe F, like, how do you, and
then because, you know, again,I'm working effectively nine
time zones away from the bulk ofthe people that know I exist, I
am not secure that my clientbase is going to stay, um,
(11:45):
economically viable and to gothrough the bureaucratic
rigmarole of setting up thebusiness and paying all this
money when I may, you know, havehalf the income I have in three
months.
I don't even like, I just don'tknow.
That's a lot to ask.
(12:05):
Um, and I don't, you know, it'snot like, It's not like my
private practice.
It's a very, it's a part timepractice.
It's not like it's raking in alot of dough anyway.
So I have to figure out what todo about that.
Um,
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (12:21):
And that's all on top of the daily
challenges of being an ex pat.
You know, the, I have to go, youknow, buy a hunk of meat and use
my, use my new language to doit.
And that's on top of whateverfamily stuff that we've got
going on.
You know, my mother broke herfoot a couple of weeks ago and
(12:42):
there's not a thing I can doaside from love her from this
far away.
It's, It's a lot to be an expat.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (12:51):
It is.
Yeah.
I know people like we've gotfriends.
Where the husband actuallyretired because the amount of
money that he would be paying intaxes working for a U.
S.
company as an autonomo wasfinancially stupid.
And it was
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (13:07):
single moms who are like, yeah, I could
go back to work, but I'm goingto have to pay more in child
care than I will make at thisjob.
It's like the math doesn't work,guys.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (13:17):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So basically he retired.
He retired like 10 or 15 yearsearly.
So, and, you know, I am in noposition to judge how another
country does business oroperates.
Because I'm I mean, I don't haveany say here, right?
(13:40):
I can leave.
Um, and I don't know enoughabout the history to really make
any kind of wise.
Discerning assessment about whatthey should do instead of what
they're already doing, but theydo have themselves in a little
bit of a pickle because wagesare low in this country.
And so even if you tax high, ifwages are low, you're still not
going to have enough for anaging population, especially
(14:02):
when people who are born andraised here and get an education
will go to Germany UK, wherethey can make more money and not
have to pay taxes to Spain, um,because, you know, Spain doesn't
have the.
Sort of be a situation that theU.
S.
has where they tax you on whatyou make, no matter where you're
(14:24):
making it.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (14:25):
Right.
And just to unpack what you justsaid there, but this is exactly
it.
It all starts with which countryyou're even going to.
And then you have to spend, Imean, you've got over a year in
Spain now.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (14:39):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (14:40):
Yeah.
You're still figuring this stuffout.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (14:42):
Yeah.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (14:44):
We don't listeners, we don't know
when this ends.
I'm not sure it ever does
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (14:50):
I, I, I would expect in, in five or
ten years there would be, we'dknow what to do.
Like there, you know, but then,hey, what if the laws change
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (14:59):
or the borders.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_041 (15:01):
or the borders
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (15:02):
like anything.
And it does.
That's another aspect.
You know, everybody's so eagerto get out of the, well, not
everybody, half the populationis eager to get out of the
United States right now, or atleast they're playing with it in
their minds and their fantasies.
But there is a lot happeninghere in Europe too, and stuff
that could be happening becauseof us choices.
(15:24):
And so this isn't a sure beteither.
Nothing.
I mean, nothing is, that's thething we have to really learn to
embrace.
And that is the thing that beingan expat is helping me.
Learn to embrace is how do youlive a life that makes you
happy?
We are not constantly riddledby.
Anxiety while accepting thereality that so little is in our
(15:49):
control.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_ (15:50):
yeah, you know, it's interesting that
one, I, I actually kind ofdisagree with what you said
about things being ratherdependable and stable in the U.
S.
I don't think that's true for alot of people, um, and I don't
think that's more true therethan here in Europe because here
in Europe, nobody has to worryabout medical bankruptcy.
That's not on anybody's mind asa possibility.
(16:13):
That's very real for many, many,many Americans.
Um, Homelessness too, like it'smuch harder with the inherent
social structure here, and thecommunity base here, and the
support of the community here,it's much harder In a lot of
Europe to end up in a tent onthe streets than it is in the U.
(16:36):
S.
So I think the instability,particularly for those who are
living on the margins of totalpoverty.
Is very real and very chaotic.
I think that we have more, Imean, my armchair psychologist
assessment is that we have moreanxiety in the U S because we
(16:59):
are putting far too much faithin what the headlines are
telling us in any given momentand accepting it as truth, and
we have had.
A total absence of major crisison our soil for 100 years.
(17:20):
I would say the last time we hadmajor crisis on our soil was
during the Great Depression.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (17:26):
I agree with that.
la-chingona_1_11-19-202 (17:28):
Because even Pearl Harbor was isolated
to Hawaii and we acted quicklyand the war never came on, you
know, it never stayed on oursoil.
Um, whereas here in Europe, Imean, shit's going down every
15, 25, 50 years, depending onwhat area of the continent
(17:48):
you're on.
So there's an inherentunderstanding, I think, because
chaotic history is closehistory, not far away
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (17:58):
Yes, exactly.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (18:00):
your parents are telling you, it's
stories your grandparents aretelling you, and they are not as
quick to forget and move on,even when, as in the case of
Spain, the government has apolicy of let's just pretend
none of this ever happened.
Um, which I actually kind ofwant to segue, because it's a
(18:20):
very fascinating note,historical note, that I am just
utterly, what's the word?
Impressed by, I think I'mimpressed.
So Spain is the only countrythat I know of that has emerged
from a fascist dictatorship todemocracy without war.
(18:44):
They did not, when Franco died,they transitioned to a democracy
without extreme violence andwar.
Now, there was the Basqueseparatists, right, who had the
ETA terrorist organization, butthey were very much fringe
outliers.
The way that they did this Wasthey agreed both sides committed
(19:06):
crimes.
Both sides have been victims.
We're going to basically letthis be water under the bridge
and move forward.
So people who were in jail, um,you know, anti Francoists who
were in jail were released.
People who were pro Franco, whomurdered others, never were
(19:27):
prosecuted.
And it was kind of a, we'regoing to live and let live
because we have to, in order tomake this transition peacefully.
And they managed to make itwork.
That is not to say that there isbitter resentment on both sides.
Because people don't forget,people can't forget, but they
(19:50):
did something that I don't thinkhas ever been done before.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (19:54):
Yeah, that's remarkable.
Yeah.
And from, it's interesting causethere is, there's the government
policies and government choice,and then there is the human
individual and individual familyexperience, which are two
different things.
It takes, um, boy, there's noteven words because you can see
how impossible that would be tolive with and how impossible any
(20:18):
other choice would be to livewith.
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (20:20):
exactly.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_1311 (20:21):
think you're right.
I think it does sum up whatwe're talking about here.
And then part of me wonders, isthis all because we're living
here in Europe and exploring ourexistence from this lens and
then, you know, plus theelection.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0 (20:35):
This is a great place to have a
midlife crisis, folks.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131 (20:37):
That's so true, but that's exactly my
point.
Or is it because we're, youknow, nearly 50.
And this is simply what one doesat nearly 50.
We could be in the middle of afarm in Minnesota and having the
same conversations, exist,existential conversations.
I think that there is, I thinkit's probably a combination for
(20:59):
me, that this is the time in, inthe life when one does this and
that.
It's almost like I plungedmyself into hot water.
I was like, okay, we're doingthis.
Go ahead and peel the layersaway.
Cause I'm going all in on mymidlife crisis, but it's a nice
way to do it because as hard asit is, I think it's hard no
(21:23):
matter what, when you findyourself at this place in life.
So why not make it an adventure?
It's going to be hard anyway.
Why not make it an adventure?
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (21:35):
I like that.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (21:38):
It might be a nice place to leave
this.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_0411 (21:40):
I think we should.
Let's just wrap this up.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_13115 (21:42):
Dear listeners, we wish you all a, an
adventure in your midlife orwherever you are in your life
right now, reach out to us.
I'm on Instagram at be seriouslyhappy.
And Amy is at,
la-chingona_1_11-19-20 (21:54):
Vibrance Nutrition.
rebecca_1_11-19-2024_131158 (21:57):
so until the next time I'll push
in.
la-chingona_1_11-19-2024_04 (22:00):
Que te vaya bien.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
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