December 18, 2024 • 23 mins
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1 (00:24):
Bonjola, Aimee.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (00:25):
It
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (00:28):
we signed on today that you have
labelled yourself La Chingona,which I hear is, uh, a bit of a
naughty turn of phrase.
Why did we call ourselves LaChingona, where does it come
from, and what's going on,Aimee?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (00:41):
just came to mind.
Um, it, it means, actuallychingona is Mexican Spanish, not
Spain Spanish for like badass,uh, the feminine.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (00:52):
Nice!
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (00:53):
Yeah, I've heard it used positively
and negatively.
Um, so I think it's kind of upfor interpretation as to whether
it's asshole or badass.
I think, I don't know, I've beenhanging out with Spaniards and
not Mexicans for the last year.
So my memory, and my memory, mygoodness, my brain is like all
sorts of mixed up because,Because languages, um, yeah,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (01:19):
Well, so, speaking of languages, you
mentioned before we were on airthat what you're really
struggling with right now islanguage.
You're down at the bottom of theroller coaster again.
What's going on?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (01:31):
I am, I hate that they have stupid
names for everything and theywant us to remember how to use
things by their name, right?
So, for instance, if I want tosay, If I want to say, que te
vaya bien, I have to understand,no, this is like subjunctive
(01:51):
versus conditional versus pluscum perfecto versus imperative
versus indicative.
And I'm like, don't confuse,don't add all these extra stupid
words that don't actually matterin my head.
Just tell me how to speak thefreaking language.
Because it's such a struggleanyway.
And then, and then our Spanishteacher likes to talk a lot.
(02:16):
She likes to talk a lot.
And the more she talks, the moreconfused I get.
Because she says a lot of stuff,and then throws in things that I
guess we're supposed to know thedifferent, the difference
between conditional one andconditional two without her
explaining it.
And I'm like, what the F is the,what does this?
What is happening?
(02:38):
What is happening?
So, I'm in a place where I'mlooking at the homework, and
it's not clear to me whichtenses I should be using.
And it turns out, well, that'sbecause, you know, different
sentences require differenttenses, but the instructions
don't tell me to expect morethan one tense or different
tenses.
(02:59):
And I am frustrated and I feellike I don't want to do this
anymore.
And then I feel like a whinylittle baby for not wanting to
do this anymore because that'sone of the main reasons why
we're here.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (03:15):
True,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (03:16):
And, uh, you know, my Spanish tutor
yesterday was asking me, If Ifelt more confident in my
ability to speak Spanish, and Iwas like, well, kinda, but it
doesn't matter if I feelconfident because I felt
confident in what I was doinglast year.
And then you get thesecorrections back, and it's like,
no, actually, you don't knowJack.
You don't know anything.
You don't even, like, babiestalk better than you.
(03:39):
And so it doesn't, like, I don'tknow, maybe I'm better, maybe
I'm not, but I really can'tobjectively assess if I sound
better.
Any more like a human beingrather than, you know,
hallucinating AI stringing wordstogether.
That doesn't make sense,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (04:00):
I can so identify with what you're
talking about.
I'm not feeling that way aboutthe language right now, but I've
been on that very similar place,uh, as a business owner lately,
just like this again, thisagain, like Really?
I don't, I don't want to dothis, especially don't want to
(04:21):
do it again.
And it just, it's crazy making,but one of the things that does
help is my husband willsometimes remind me that the
things that are making me crynow aren't actually bigger and
harder than the things that weremaking me cry before.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (04:39):
That's pretty cool.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (04:40):
it helps.
I'm still crying, but
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (04:45):
I think that's fantastic.
I mean, that isn't a, that is,you have an external source
objectively assessing that youhave.
Grown.
And that you can handle harderthings now.
I still get my papers
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (05:01):
like your tutor.
Your tutor is not able toobjectively give you feedback.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (05:05):
I mean, I haven't asked for it and
in a way I don't really want it.
Yeah.
In a way I don't, I don't, Imean, I think I do have better
recall of words.
I do have a sense of, you know,more intuitive sense of
(05:26):
different tenses based upon whatI'm talking about.
But I just get so, like if youjust picked a random Spaniard on
the street and asked them.
Can you please use a sentencethat uses both the indicative
present tense and conditionalto?
(05:47):
They would look at you like youwere talking in a foreign
language, because chances arethey don't really know that
either.
So, why am I being forced tolearn this bullshit?
Pardon my French again.
I swear, I, every episode, we'rejust going to have to put a
warning that Aimee's got a pottymouth.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (06:06):
We're gonna have an explicit, but then
our, then our podcast willreally take off.
You know, obviously what you'resaying is 100 percent true
because it would be true aboutAmericans as well.
If we went on the U.
S.
streets and said, useconditional tense, they'd be
like, what is conditional tense?
Well, we use it every daynaturally.
The problem is that we learnedit like children learn it.
(06:26):
We didn't have labels.
We just did it.
Kind of got the context of whenyou say it this way versus that
way, and we were correct,corrected over and over again
without that grammaticalstructure.
I had learned a language before,I had learned Spanish before
learning French, so I alreadywent through that, creating that
lattice in my head, really thosekind of those file drawers.
(06:49):
So when I took on French, I waslike, yeah, there's the
conditional, there's thesubjunctive.
And I didn't have to create thelabels.
Whereas Damien, he's neverlearned another language before.
So he is having to create thelabels and file drawers at the
same time as he's putting thingsin those file drawers in his
head.
And that is, it definitely slowsdown the process.
(07:11):
And I think that it also makesyou feel like you take two steps
forward and then you feel likeyou took four steps back because
you were feeling so good.
And then they just, Goingcomplicated again for no good
reason.
And yeah, I just, it makes mewant to smack the French.
You want to smack the Spanish.
I get it.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (07:32):
Yeah.
You know, when I was learningSpanish the first time in junior
high and high school, we did,you know, we did have that.
Low score and perfecto andperfect subjunctive, et cetera,
et cetera.
Those are not completely foreignterms to me, but I think at that
age, because I had been immersedin Spanish from ages zero to
(07:56):
four, I think I didn't bother tocreate a lattice because I was
like, Oh, that doesn't matter.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (08:03):
Mm hmm.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (08:04):
This is what it means.
This is how you do it.
And you know, my extra juicyadolescent brain just.
integrated it without doing theextra work of, of, of memorizing
the grammatical terms that arethere.
(08:24):
And, I, I feel here in Spain,the emphasis on the mechanics of
the language is higher and morevalued than what I recall
experiencing in high school andeven undergrad.
(08:47):
Cause I did take Spanish, Ithink my freshman year of
college as well.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (08:51):
I am surprised to hear that
because I found the same thingto be true in France, but I
expected it because they are soin love with their language.
I mean, they literally have gameshows and news segments about
the history of their languageand where words come from.
And like, honestly, I totallylove the geekiness of that, but
I would not have expected thatwith the Spanish at all.
(09:13):
I'm really surprised to hearthat.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (09:16):
Yeah.
Spanish academics, I think arepretty old school though.
From what I've heard, you know,word on the street is it's, just
one step past the teacherslapping your hand with a ruler
in terms of how they teach inthis country.
So, um, you know, another reasonwhy, like the kid is in
Montessori
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (09:35):
was just about to say you need the
Montessori of language schools.
That's what you need to find ordevelop.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (09:41):
I, yeah, I don't have the brain to
develop it.
I can tell you that right now.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (09:48):
The other thing, you know, again,
relating this to be being abusiness owner.
The things that we market forright now don't produce fruit
until several months or even ayear or two later.
And then, of course, as aninterior designer, once you get
your project, it's another yearor two before you get photos.
There's this really long timeperiod.
(10:08):
And I think with language, it'sthe same way.
What we learn now, we will, weobviously will and do suck at
right now.
And it won't feel good formonths, if not a whole nother
year.
And You have to really kind ofallow for that and, and, and
focus on, okay.
Yeah, but my five year oldFrench, in my case, my five year
(10:30):
old French, it is gettingbetter.
My teenager French is still yetto be found.
Hopefully it's down the road abit.
Cause that's what I'm learningthe mechanics of, but it doesn't
mean I can use them right.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (10:43):
Yeah.
I also go through fits andstarts with my ability to be
immersive in the experience.
And, you know, the other thingmy tutor told me yesterday was
like, you've got to be readingin Spanish.
You have to be listening to thelanguage.
This is something that needs tobe done every day.
And I'll, you know, my abilityto be consistent with that has a
(11:03):
lot of ebbs and flows.
It's very difficult for me to,be consistent with that.
I think what derailed me lasttime is just I had a couple of
weeks where I had a prettyinsane client load and then
there was stuff happening in theStates with family that was
keeping me up till, you know, 11o'clock midnight, several nights
(11:24):
during the week, and so it wasjust not happening.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (11:30):
I don't think it's realistic.
And I think this is the thing,you know, maybe if we were, and
all we were here doing islearning our languages.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (11:39):
Well, it is realistic if you don't
live in a place where you haveaccess to your native tongue.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (11:45):
Yeah,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (11:46):
If You're living, if I had been
alone and not with my family,living in a little Pueblo,
somewhere in the interior,right, in what they call the
donut region of Spain, I wouldone, not have Cotillon that I
always have to think about, youknow, every time I open my
mouth.
I'm like.
(12:06):
I'm sorry, I'm not speaking yourlanguage in the back of my head.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_ (12:10):
literally learning two languages at the
same time.
I mean, that's part of
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (12:13):
Not yet.
I am, I am surrounded by onewhile learning another.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133 (12:17):
that's what I mean.
Your brain is taking them bothin, and you're somehow trying to
get good at one while worryingabout the other.
That's not something to be takenlightly.
That's honestly something tocommend yourself for.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (12:31):
The luck of the draw.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (12:35):
Or here, dear listeners, warning,
don't choose a place that speakstwo languages if you'd like it
to be a little easier.
Our brains, the thing aboutbeing an expat and on top of
that, in my case, both of ourcases, a business person on top
of that, in your case, a mom ontop of that, in both of our
cases, wives.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (12:55):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (12:56):
You know, it's sort of like how
sometimes you, you look at yourphone and within three minutes,
the whole thing went from 100percent battery to 20 percent
battery.
And you're like, how did thathappen?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (13:07):
Oh yeah, that happens in my body
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (13:09):
That is the regular thing.
We get uncharged faster becauseour batteries are literally,
literally draining faster.
I'm, I'm, I beat myself upregularly at the beginning of
the year.
I bought the coolest programthat has three minute to five
minute short Videos in French,followed by a discussion of what
(13:31):
the content was, and adiscussion of cultural and
vocabulary moments.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (13:36):
What is it called?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (13:38):
Uh, it's called 6pm in Paris.
And it's amazing, have I touchedit in months?
No.
Instead, we are binge watchingthings like, uh, the old Star
Treks, cause that's gonna helpmy language, you know, and then
Only Murders in the Building,which by the way, totally
(14:01):
loving.
We need that release.
Yes, we could be moving faster,but no, we really can't.
We just, we would be miserableand that doesn't, that's not
worth it either.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (14:14):
Well, I think you reach, I mean, even
if you forced it, you reach asaturation point where it
doesn't actually make it better.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:20):
I agree.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (14:22):
And forcing it is.
Oh, a total waste of energybecause you simply cannot
integrate things faster than youcan integrate things.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:30):
I think your brain will even
reject it and be like, yo, youthought you could learn.
I'm going to show you
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (14:35):
Yeah.
don't put a VW bug on a race cartrack and expect it to perform
well.
Like it can only go so fast.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13 (14:42):
exactly
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (14:44):
That said, I'm still really
irritated.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:49):
the feelings are real.
And that's the main thing that Iwould want our listeners to
hear.
You can logic your way around itall day, but you can still feel.
Like an idiot or completelymiserable or super frustrated.
That doesn't,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (15:04):
Yeah, I think if, you know, if I don't
pass this class or even if I do,um, I don't think I'll continue
at the school because I'm justnot, I'm just not finding the
emphasis on the structure, themethodology.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13 (15:23):
there's gotta be alternatives.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (15:24):
Oh, I know there is.
Like, I mean, you know, my tutoris like, ah, you know, nobody
was, if he effectively, heeffectively said what I just
said, which is why I said it.
And it's just like, you know,nobody, Spaniards don't know
this, right?
They're teaching you things likethat.
People, native speakers don'tknow This This isn't something
that you actually learn.
Need to know.
In fact, he was like, what's thedifference between conditional
(15:45):
one and conditional two?
And I was like, I don't know,because she didn't tell us.
She just seems to expect that wealready know this.
I don't know where we weresupposed to know that from whom,
right?
Like, how did that even happen?
So I had, you know, I just like,I have to go and look it up.
Um, but I think, you know, I'd,I'd stick with tutoring or try a
different, language learningmethod because in some ways I
(16:07):
feel like it's actually slowingme down because I get tripped up
on, you know, is it this orthat?
What's the name?
And okay, that's the name forthis.
Which tense is that referringto?
So it's an extra jump of tryingto logic my way through it
rather than trying to intuit it.
Um,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (16:27):
And we've talked about this school
before.
So you know, you've certainlygiven it a chance through
several different teachers,several different quarters and
you know, people listening mightbe like, yeah, why isn't she
just cut and run before a changetakes energy and effort to, you
have to research options, youneed to have time, you need to
look at the pricing and can youget to it?
(16:48):
And is it convenient?
And we were just talking abouthow we're already, Low on
batteries, you know, all of ushave held on to employees or
housekeepers or spouses andboyfriends that we shouldn't
have
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (17:02):
Great,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (17:04):
we weren't ready yet for whatever
the reasons were
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (17:08):
great, great.
That's a hilarious, uh, that's ahilarious comparison.
Oh
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1 (17:16):
language school and abusive partner.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (17:19):
my god.
Well, you know, I mean, thefirst, the first one, Paco is
great.
Paco is great.
Super, you know, super friendlyand actually my current teacher
is super friendly.
She talks a lot.
She talks fast.
She has been wonderful forgetting me acclimated to the
speed of a typical Spanishspeaker
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (17:39):
huge.
la-chingona_2_11-19 (17:40):
Absolutely, I mean spending seven to eight
hours a week In the classroomwith her has absolutely made me
a better listener and a better,um, decoder of straight Spanish
when they're coming at you hotand heavy with the lingo.
So that's been really great.
I just, it's just the.
(18:01):
You know, the, academic natureof it.
Isn't suiting me very well, andI, you know, reserve the right
to change my mind about this in2 months time.
But, um, I do feel, I do feellike it's.
It's a hindrance because as soonas I know what's going on, I'm
doing okay.
(18:21):
But the amount of time it takesme to figure out what's going
on, the amount of mistakes Imake trying to figure out what
is going on is, and then, youknow, and then the frustration
and agitation and anger that Ihave when I mess everything up
because I didn't.
interpret what I thought Ineeded to interpret correctly,
(18:45):
miss the boat entirely in somesituations.
Um, you know, I just, it'sdeeply frustrating.
rebecca_2_11-19-202 (18:53):
Absolutely.
And the number of times I resortto English, I did it just
yesterday at a museum when Ineeded to ask some complicated
questions and I wouldn't be ableto get away with that if I was
in a smaller village.
And if I were here solo, youknow, I've been thinking a lot
about, I, let me say thatdifferently.
I've met a lot of women who arehere solo.
(19:15):
Um, and I find that absolutelyremarkable.
Men too.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (19:20):
How old are they?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (19:21):
Most of them seem to be, I would say
in their young thirties, Butthere's a wide variety and I
really love it and I've beenthinking about it a lot because
I think I would feel reallylonely if I were here by myself.
(19:42):
So I was just about to say if Iwas doing this by myself, I
think I'd want to be in a smallvillage so that it would
challenge my language skills andget me there faster.
But I also think that it mightbe even more isolating than a
lot of the loneliness I do readabout from these women, uh, that
they're feeling here in Pariswhere there's, you know, no end
(20:03):
of possibilities to connect withpeople internationally and in
all kinds of ways.
It's again, there's no rightanswers, right?
We try to make good decisions.
And then we just move forward
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (20:18):
I mean, at the end of the day, if
you're not dead in a ditch,you're doing okay.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (20:22):
and we aren't look at us thriving.
I am going to use thisopportunity though, to challenge
myself.
I think that not watching the6pm in Paris has sort of become
its own habit.
I think I've built it into abigger frog to eat than it is.
(20:43):
So I am hereby making a promise.
To you and our listeners, but Iwill have watched one of those
silly short films by the nexttime we record.
I will give you a short bookreport or movie report.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2 (20:56):
Exciting.
I look forward to hearing thecultural and historical aspects
of what you learned.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (21:01):
too! Well, is there anything that,
you know, I know that you're theone at the bottom of the roller
coaster right now on thelanguage stuff, but is there
anything you would like to leaveour listeners with?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (21:20):
You know, I mean, at the end of the
day rate, this too shall pass.
It's ultimately not, I've beenhere before, and unlike last
year, I'm not crying, soprogress.
And I also don't feel like myentire self worth hinges upon
it.
Last year was hard.
(21:40):
Last year was a really hard yearfor me, actually, you know, with
my running, going to shit and,um, God, that was horrible and
struggling with the language.
It was some.
Yeah, it was hard, huh?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (21:56):
Yeah.
And you wrap it all up into onepackage where you start doubting
every decision you've ever madefor your whole entire life.
And that's fun.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (22:03):
I didn't go that far.
I still feel very secure aboutmy life partner choice and the
decision to move here
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (22:10):
Good.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (22:11):
out of my career.
I did a good, I did a good jobchoosing a career for myself,
but you know, I may bevolunteering my services.
Uh, because I don't want to paytaxes.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_ (22:24):
accepted.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (22:26):
Yeah, but I'm sure you'd have to
report those donations andthey'd be taxed because I'm not
a nonprofit.
And who knows?
Maybe nonprofits in Spain haveto pay taxes
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (22:36):
That would be a whole nother bee's
nest to poke at and figure outall the answers for.
And that's the thing is, thereis no easy, if you're coming to
be an expat looking for the easybutton.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (22:50):
That's not a thing.
No, no,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (22:54):
It's not here.
It is not here to be found.
la-chingona_2_11-19-202 (22:57):
there's not a Staples in sight.
You can't press the easy button,folks.
Sorry.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (23:04):
Well, we hope that you're uplifted by
this episode and are superexcited to come be an expat.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (23:10):
Come join us.
It's more fun over here.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (23:13):
We promise.
Now, neither one of us have anyregrets and we still encourage
you to come join us.
And with that, I would say à laprochaine.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (23:24):
Hasta luego.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcastabout two women, Amy and
Rebecca, who each moved from theUnited States to Europe to
become expats, Amy to Spain andRebecca to France.
We're here to share the highs,the lows, and the logistics of
this adventure, encourage you tofollow your own move abroad
dreams, and remind you thatyou're not alone when the going
gets tough.
Enjoy.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1 (00:24):
Bonjola, Aimee.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (00:25):
It
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (00:28):
we signed on today that you have
labelled yourself La Chingona,which I hear is, uh, a bit of a
naughty turn of phrase.
Why did we call ourselves LaChingona, where does it come
from, and what's going on,Aimee?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (00:41):
just came to mind.
Um, it, it means, actuallychingona is Mexican Spanish, not
Spain Spanish for like badass,uh, the feminine.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (00:52):
Nice!
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (00:53):
Yeah, I've heard it used positively
and negatively.
Um, so I think it's kind of upfor interpretation as to whether
it's asshole or badass.
I think, I don't know, I've beenhanging out with Spaniards and
not Mexicans for the last year.
So my memory, and my memory, mygoodness, my brain is like all
sorts of mixed up because,Because languages, um, yeah,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (01:19):
Well, so, speaking of languages, you
mentioned before we were on airthat what you're really
struggling with right now islanguage.
You're down at the bottom of theroller coaster again.
What's going on?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (01:31):
I am, I hate that they have stupid
names for everything and theywant us to remember how to use
things by their name, right?
So, for instance, if I want tosay, If I want to say, que te
vaya bien, I have to understand,no, this is like subjunctive
(01:51):
versus conditional versus pluscum perfecto versus imperative
versus indicative.
And I'm like, don't confuse,don't add all these extra stupid
words that don't actually matterin my head.
Just tell me how to speak thefreaking language.
Because it's such a struggleanyway.
And then, and then our Spanishteacher likes to talk a lot.
(02:16):
She likes to talk a lot.
And the more she talks, the moreconfused I get.
Because she says a lot of stuff,and then throws in things that I
guess we're supposed to know thedifferent, the difference
between conditional one andconditional two without her
explaining it.
And I'm like, what the F is the,what does this?
What is happening?
(02:38):
What is happening?
So, I'm in a place where I'mlooking at the homework, and
it's not clear to me whichtenses I should be using.
And it turns out, well, that'sbecause, you know, different
sentences require differenttenses, but the instructions
don't tell me to expect morethan one tense or different
tenses.
(02:59):
And I am frustrated and I feellike I don't want to do this
anymore.
And then I feel like a whinylittle baby for not wanting to
do this anymore because that'sone of the main reasons why
we're here.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (03:15):
True,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (03:16):
And, uh, you know, my Spanish tutor
yesterday was asking me, If Ifelt more confident in my
ability to speak Spanish, and Iwas like, well, kinda, but it
doesn't matter if I feelconfident because I felt
confident in what I was doinglast year.
And then you get thesecorrections back, and it's like,
no, actually, you don't knowJack.
You don't know anything.
You don't even, like, babiestalk better than you.
(03:39):
And so it doesn't, like, I don'tknow, maybe I'm better, maybe
I'm not, but I really can'tobjectively assess if I sound
better.
Any more like a human beingrather than, you know,
hallucinating AI stringing wordstogether.
That doesn't make sense,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (04:00):
I can so identify with what you're
talking about.
I'm not feeling that way aboutthe language right now, but I've
been on that very similar place,uh, as a business owner lately,
just like this again, thisagain, like Really?
I don't, I don't want to dothis, especially don't want to
(04:21):
do it again.
And it just, it's crazy making,but one of the things that does
help is my husband willsometimes remind me that the
things that are making me crynow aren't actually bigger and
harder than the things that weremaking me cry before.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (04:39):
That's pretty cool.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (04:40):
it helps.
I'm still crying, but
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (04:45):
I think that's fantastic.
I mean, that isn't a, that is,you have an external source
objectively assessing that youhave.
Grown.
And that you can handle harderthings now.
I still get my papers
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (05:01):
like your tutor.
Your tutor is not able toobjectively give you feedback.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (05:05):
I mean, I haven't asked for it and
in a way I don't really want it.
Yeah.
In a way I don't, I don't, Imean, I think I do have better
recall of words.
I do have a sense of, you know,more intuitive sense of
(05:26):
different tenses based upon whatI'm talking about.
But I just get so, like if youjust picked a random Spaniard on
the street and asked them.
Can you please use a sentencethat uses both the indicative
present tense and conditionalto?
(05:47):
They would look at you like youwere talking in a foreign
language, because chances arethey don't really know that
either.
So, why am I being forced tolearn this bullshit?
Pardon my French again.
I swear, I, every episode, we'rejust going to have to put a
warning that Aimee's got a pottymouth.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (06:06):
We're gonna have an explicit, but then
our, then our podcast willreally take off.
You know, obviously what you'resaying is 100 percent true
because it would be true aboutAmericans as well.
If we went on the U.
S.
streets and said, useconditional tense, they'd be
like, what is conditional tense?
Well, we use it every daynaturally.
The problem is that we learnedit like children learn it.
(06:26):
We didn't have labels.
We just did it.
Kind of got the context of whenyou say it this way versus that
way, and we were correct,corrected over and over again
without that grammaticalstructure.
I had learned a language before,I had learned Spanish before
learning French, so I alreadywent through that, creating that
lattice in my head, really thosekind of those file drawers.
(06:49):
So when I took on French, I waslike, yeah, there's the
conditional, there's thesubjunctive.
And I didn't have to create thelabels.
Whereas Damien, he's neverlearned another language before.
So he is having to create thelabels and file drawers at the
same time as he's putting thingsin those file drawers in his
head.
And that is, it definitely slowsdown the process.
(07:11):
And I think that it also makesyou feel like you take two steps
forward and then you feel likeyou took four steps back because
you were feeling so good.
And then they just, Goingcomplicated again for no good
reason.
And yeah, I just, it makes mewant to smack the French.
You want to smack the Spanish.
I get it.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (07:32):
Yeah.
You know, when I was learningSpanish the first time in junior
high and high school, we did,you know, we did have that.
Low score and perfecto andperfect subjunctive, et cetera,
et cetera.
Those are not completely foreignterms to me, but I think at that
age, because I had been immersedin Spanish from ages zero to
(07:56):
four, I think I didn't bother tocreate a lattice because I was
like, Oh, that doesn't matter.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (08:03):
Mm hmm.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (08:04):
This is what it means.
This is how you do it.
And you know, my extra juicyadolescent brain just.
integrated it without doing theextra work of, of, of memorizing
the grammatical terms that arethere.
(08:24):
And, I, I feel here in Spain,the emphasis on the mechanics of
the language is higher and morevalued than what I recall
experiencing in high school andeven undergrad.
(08:47):
Cause I did take Spanish, Ithink my freshman year of
college as well.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (08:51):
I am surprised to hear that
because I found the same thingto be true in France, but I
expected it because they are soin love with their language.
I mean, they literally have gameshows and news segments about
the history of their languageand where words come from.
And like, honestly, I totallylove the geekiness of that, but
I would not have expected thatwith the Spanish at all.
(09:13):
I'm really surprised to hearthat.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (09:16):
Yeah.
Spanish academics, I think arepretty old school though.
From what I've heard, you know,word on the street is it's, just
one step past the teacherslapping your hand with a ruler
in terms of how they teach inthis country.
So, um, you know, another reasonwhy, like the kid is in
Montessori
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (09:35):
was just about to say you need the
Montessori of language schools.
That's what you need to find ordevelop.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (09:41):
I, yeah, I don't have the brain to
develop it.
I can tell you that right now.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (09:48):
The other thing, you know, again,
relating this to be being abusiness owner.
The things that we market forright now don't produce fruit
until several months or even ayear or two later.
And then, of course, as aninterior designer, once you get
your project, it's another yearor two before you get photos.
There's this really long timeperiod.
(10:08):
And I think with language, it'sthe same way.
What we learn now, we will, weobviously will and do suck at
right now.
And it won't feel good formonths, if not a whole nother
year.
And You have to really kind ofallow for that and, and, and
focus on, okay.
Yeah, but my five year oldFrench, in my case, my five year
(10:30):
old French, it is gettingbetter.
My teenager French is still yetto be found.
Hopefully it's down the road abit.
Cause that's what I'm learningthe mechanics of, but it doesn't
mean I can use them right.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (10:43):
Yeah.
I also go through fits andstarts with my ability to be
immersive in the experience.
And, you know, the other thingmy tutor told me yesterday was
like, you've got to be readingin Spanish.
You have to be listening to thelanguage.
This is something that needs tobe done every day.
And I'll, you know, my abilityto be consistent with that has a
(11:03):
lot of ebbs and flows.
It's very difficult for me to,be consistent with that.
I think what derailed me lasttime is just I had a couple of
weeks where I had a prettyinsane client load and then
there was stuff happening in theStates with family that was
keeping me up till, you know, 11o'clock midnight, several nights
(11:24):
during the week, and so it wasjust not happening.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (11:30):
I don't think it's realistic.
And I think this is the thing,you know, maybe if we were, and
all we were here doing islearning our languages.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (11:39):
Well, it is realistic if you don't
live in a place where you haveaccess to your native tongue.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (11:45):
Yeah,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (11:46):
If You're living, if I had been
alone and not with my family,living in a little Pueblo,
somewhere in the interior,right, in what they call the
donut region of Spain, I wouldone, not have Cotillon that I
always have to think about, youknow, every time I open my
mouth.
I'm like.
(12:06):
I'm sorry, I'm not speaking yourlanguage in the back of my head.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_ (12:10):
literally learning two languages at the
same time.
I mean, that's part of
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (12:13):
Not yet.
I am, I am surrounded by onewhile learning another.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133 (12:17):
that's what I mean.
Your brain is taking them bothin, and you're somehow trying to
get good at one while worryingabout the other.
That's not something to be takenlightly.
That's honestly something tocommend yourself for.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (12:31):
The luck of the draw.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (12:35):
Or here, dear listeners, warning,
don't choose a place that speakstwo languages if you'd like it
to be a little easier.
Our brains, the thing aboutbeing an expat and on top of
that, in my case, both of ourcases, a business person on top
of that, in your case, a mom ontop of that, in both of our
cases, wives.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (12:55):
Mm hmm.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (12:56):
You know, it's sort of like how
sometimes you, you look at yourphone and within three minutes,
the whole thing went from 100percent battery to 20 percent
battery.
And you're like, how did thathappen?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (13:07):
Oh yeah, that happens in my body
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (13:09):
That is the regular thing.
We get uncharged faster becauseour batteries are literally,
literally draining faster.
I'm, I'm, I beat myself upregularly at the beginning of
the year.
I bought the coolest programthat has three minute to five
minute short Videos in French,followed by a discussion of what
(13:31):
the content was, and adiscussion of cultural and
vocabulary moments.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (13:36):
What is it called?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (13:38):
Uh, it's called 6pm in Paris.
And it's amazing, have I touchedit in months?
No.
Instead, we are binge watchingthings like, uh, the old Star
Treks, cause that's gonna helpmy language, you know, and then
Only Murders in the Building,which by the way, totally
(14:01):
loving.
We need that release.
Yes, we could be moving faster,but no, we really can't.
We just, we would be miserableand that doesn't, that's not
worth it either.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (14:14):
Well, I think you reach, I mean, even
if you forced it, you reach asaturation point where it
doesn't actually make it better.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:20):
I agree.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (14:22):
And forcing it is.
Oh, a total waste of energybecause you simply cannot
integrate things faster than youcan integrate things.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:30):
I think your brain will even
reject it and be like, yo, youthought you could learn.
I'm going to show you
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (14:35):
Yeah.
don't put a VW bug on a race cartrack and expect it to perform
well.
Like it can only go so fast.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13 (14:42):
exactly
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (14:44):
That said, I'm still really
irritated.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (14:49):
the feelings are real.
And that's the main thing that Iwould want our listeners to
hear.
You can logic your way around itall day, but you can still feel.
Like an idiot or completelymiserable or super frustrated.
That doesn't,
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (15:04):
Yeah, I think if, you know, if I don't
pass this class or even if I do,um, I don't think I'll continue
at the school because I'm justnot, I'm just not finding the
emphasis on the structure, themethodology.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13 (15:23):
there's gotta be alternatives.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (15:24):
Oh, I know there is.
Like, I mean, you know, my tutoris like, ah, you know, nobody
was, if he effectively, heeffectively said what I just
said, which is why I said it.
And it's just like, you know,nobody, Spaniards don't know
this, right?
They're teaching you things likethat.
People, native speakers don'tknow This This isn't something
that you actually learn.
Need to know.
In fact, he was like, what's thedifference between conditional
(15:45):
one and conditional two?
And I was like, I don't know,because she didn't tell us.
She just seems to expect that wealready know this.
I don't know where we weresupposed to know that from whom,
right?
Like, how did that even happen?
So I had, you know, I just like,I have to go and look it up.
Um, but I think, you know, I'd,I'd stick with tutoring or try a
different, language learningmethod because in some ways I
(16:07):
feel like it's actually slowingme down because I get tripped up
on, you know, is it this orthat?
What's the name?
And okay, that's the name forthis.
Which tense is that referringto?
So it's an extra jump of tryingto logic my way through it
rather than trying to intuit it.
Um,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (16:27):
And we've talked about this school
before.
So you know, you've certainlygiven it a chance through
several different teachers,several different quarters and
you know, people listening mightbe like, yeah, why isn't she
just cut and run before a changetakes energy and effort to, you
have to research options, youneed to have time, you need to
look at the pricing and can youget to it?
(16:48):
And is it convenient?
And we were just talking abouthow we're already, Low on
batteries, you know, all of ushave held on to employees or
housekeepers or spouses andboyfriends that we shouldn't
have
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (17:02):
Great,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (17:04):
we weren't ready yet for whatever
the reasons were
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (17:08):
great, great.
That's a hilarious, uh, that's ahilarious comparison.
Oh
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1 (17:16):
language school and abusive partner.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043 (17:19):
my god.
Well, you know, I mean, thefirst, the first one, Paco is
great.
Paco is great.
Super, you know, super friendlyand actually my current teacher
is super friendly.
She talks a lot.
She talks fast.
She has been wonderful forgetting me acclimated to the
speed of a typical Spanishspeaker
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (17:39):
huge.
la-chingona_2_11-19 (17:40):
Absolutely, I mean spending seven to eight
hours a week In the classroomwith her has absolutely made me
a better listener and a better,um, decoder of straight Spanish
when they're coming at you hotand heavy with the lingo.
So that's been really great.
I just, it's just the.
(18:01):
You know, the, academic natureof it.
Isn't suiting me very well, andI, you know, reserve the right
to change my mind about this in2 months time.
But, um, I do feel, I do feellike it's.
It's a hindrance because as soonas I know what's going on, I'm
doing okay.
(18:21):
But the amount of time it takesme to figure out what's going
on, the amount of mistakes Imake trying to figure out what
is going on is, and then, youknow, and then the frustration
and agitation and anger that Ihave when I mess everything up
because I didn't.
interpret what I thought Ineeded to interpret correctly,
(18:45):
miss the boat entirely in somesituations.
Um, you know, I just, it'sdeeply frustrating.
rebecca_2_11-19-202 (18:53):
Absolutely.
And the number of times I resortto English, I did it just
yesterday at a museum when Ineeded to ask some complicated
questions and I wouldn't be ableto get away with that if I was
in a smaller village.
And if I were here solo, youknow, I've been thinking a lot
about, I, let me say thatdifferently.
I've met a lot of women who arehere solo.
(19:15):
Um, and I find that absolutelyremarkable.
Men too.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (19:20):
How old are they?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (19:21):
Most of them seem to be, I would say
in their young thirties, Butthere's a wide variety and I
really love it and I've beenthinking about it a lot because
I think I would feel reallylonely if I were here by myself.
(19:42):
So I was just about to say if Iwas doing this by myself, I
think I'd want to be in a smallvillage so that it would
challenge my language skills andget me there faster.
But I also think that it mightbe even more isolating than a
lot of the loneliness I do readabout from these women, uh, that
they're feeling here in Pariswhere there's, you know, no end
(20:03):
of possibilities to connect withpeople internationally and in
all kinds of ways.
It's again, there's no rightanswers, right?
We try to make good decisions.
And then we just move forward
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (20:18):
I mean, at the end of the day, if
you're not dead in a ditch,you're doing okay.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (20:22):
and we aren't look at us thriving.
I am going to use thisopportunity though, to challenge
myself.
I think that not watching the6pm in Paris has sort of become
its own habit.
I think I've built it into abigger frog to eat than it is.
(20:43):
So I am hereby making a promise.
To you and our listeners, but Iwill have watched one of those
silly short films by the nexttime we record.
I will give you a short bookreport or movie report.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2 (20:56):
Exciting.
I look forward to hearing thecultural and historical aspects
of what you learned.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (21:01):
too! Well, is there anything that,
you know, I know that you're theone at the bottom of the roller
coaster right now on thelanguage stuff, but is there
anything you would like to leaveour listeners with?
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (21:20):
You know, I mean, at the end of the
day rate, this too shall pass.
It's ultimately not, I've beenhere before, and unlike last
year, I'm not crying, soprogress.
And I also don't feel like myentire self worth hinges upon
it.
Last year was hard.
(21:40):
Last year was a really hard yearfor me, actually, you know, with
my running, going to shit and,um, God, that was horrible and
struggling with the language.
It was some.
Yeah, it was hard, huh?
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (21:56):
Yeah.
And you wrap it all up into onepackage where you start doubting
every decision you've ever madefor your whole entire life.
And that's fun.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0435 (22:03):
I didn't go that far.
I still feel very secure aboutmy life partner choice and the
decision to move here
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (22:10):
Good.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_04 (22:11):
out of my career.
I did a good, I did a good jobchoosing a career for myself,
but you know, I may bevolunteering my services.
Uh, because I don't want to paytaxes.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_ (22:24):
accepted.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (22:26):
Yeah, but I'm sure you'd have to
report those donations andthey'd be taxed because I'm not
a nonprofit.
And who knows?
Maybe nonprofits in Spain haveto pay taxes
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (22:36):
That would be a whole nother bee's
nest to poke at and figure outall the answers for.
And that's the thing is, thereis no easy, if you're coming to
be an expat looking for the easybutton.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024 (22:50):
That's not a thing.
No, no,
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_13351 (22:54):
It's not here.
It is not here to be found.
la-chingona_2_11-19-202 (22:57):
there's not a Staples in sight.
You can't press the easy button,folks.
Sorry.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_1335 (23:04):
Well, we hope that you're uplifted by
this episode and are superexcited to come be an expat.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_0 (23:10):
Come join us.
It's more fun over here.
rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511 (23:13):
We promise.
Now, neither one of us have anyregrets and we still encourage
you to come join us.
And with that, I would say à laprochaine.
la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_ (23:24):
Hasta luego.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Bonjola.
If you did, the best thing youcan do is share it with another
person brave enough to moveabroad.
See you next time!
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